I’m one of those still having trouble wrapping their mind around the misogyny denial. I was one expecting the anti-feminist sorts to be pointing to Rogers as an example of ‘real’ misogyny, and therefor the stuff they spew isn’t.
Also, I liked what you said about the bullying. I only got it fairly mildly as a kid and, still, trying to teach victims to ‘stand up for themselves’ is a horrible answer. It seems to me so obviously much better to get rid of the culture of bullying, along with sexism and racism and all.
Many many thanks for talking about this, the way the conversation has been framing mental illness and insanity has been deeply uncomfortable and I think you explained the reasons for that very well. It feels very much like it’s been used as an excuse to claim that misogyny is not very important for the motivation, and as such not as bad an issue. It feeds a lot into the myth that mental illness means that someone is dangerous and inhuman, which is a dangerous myth, and downplays the issue of misogyny.
As someone who was bullied as a child, I can say that it’s not very easy to do much no matter how much you’re encouraged to fight back. There are usually more than one who bully and it is usually targeted at those least likely to be able to do much and in such a way that it’s not necessarily obvious to teachers (while fighting back probably will be. Shouting at someone to stop bothering you is a lot more obvious than bothering someone when the teacher isn’t looking). Plus, fighting back tends to just end with more violence, not less. It’s not on the same scale as Rodgers, but it’s still the mentality that dictates punishing those you believe have hurt you. It’s not a solution to the hurt.
What did help was actually the anti-bullying campaigns at my school. Teaching kids to consider other people’s feelings, to not be bystanders, and to talk to teachers actually helped make the environment more compassionate and safe. Part of it might actually have been that there wasn’t much of an anti-teacher mentality among the kids, since most teachers were nice (even when a teacher was perceived as unfair to a student, the others would usually tell another teacher about it) and generally acted as trustworthy adults. Which is a really good thing to have teachers do, as it means that victims can be helped by adults and not have to stand on their own. So I very much agree that teachers, and parents, should be taught about how to deal with bullying and with making it less easy for bullies to have and use power on other kids.
Sorry for rambling on there, but it is an issue that I also find quite important and I really don’t have good experiences with the notion of a single victim fighting back against bullies. Thanks for making this response video. ^_^’
That was excellent, thank you Christina. First time I’ve watched one of your videos (only just this month got unlimited bandwidth for the first time), and really enjoyed it, despite the downer material.
As a linguist, too, let me express my admiration for your English skills – a deep and colloquially comfortable display. I speak German, French, and Russian professionally, and have for decades, but could not speak so comfortably without extensive rehearsal, and never so off the cuff as you clearly were for most of this video. I’ll be watching more often, thanks for the thoughtful and entertaining work.
Oh, and happy birthday! My traditional wish: may you have a warm, safe, and loved/loving year, and may you have so many more as you desire, nor more nor less, and may each be better than the last.
Excellent rebuttal. It does seem that anyone can only argue that extreme misogyny was the root cause of his violent anger if they’ve only read/saw a snippet of his many writings. What is especially frightening and depressing about the IV shooter’s opinions is that so many of his fellow online users seem to share them: that men are entitled to sex from women, that women should be despised for rejecting men, and that some “solution” to the “problem” of getting a woman’s consent for sex needs to be found. The IV Shooter had no problem finding fellow travelers online, and if Ms. Glenn isn’t freaking about that she’s, sadly, blind.
I brought this up over on Aron Ra’s blog as well, but I thought I might bring it up here since this is the source Aron was speaking of.
When you spoke about the legal definition of insanity and of knowing right from wrong, you were incomplete. You’re speaking of types of insanity that provide a legal defense. There are other mental conditions that do not (normally) provide a valid legal defense. Particularly Anti-social Personality Disorder (Sociopathy and Psychopathy). I don’t know if Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Megalomania) would also fit into this category but, in my inexpert opinion, it seems like it would.
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The spam comments above me sound more intelligent than many of the comments on youtube.
When she was talking about victims of bullies standing up for themselves it amused me. Should they star groups to talk about being bullied and think up ways to minimize it? Condemn people that do it so that they will have a hard time socially if they do it. It reminds me of what some feminists do regarding rape, and of course they are treated like lepors because of it. #notallbullies ??
I also find it amusing that the mental illness crowd accuses of people “latching onto” misogyny or guns. Misogyny is plainly spelled out within the guy’s own writing and guns were used to do the killing. Mental illness seems to be the magic reason that was grabbed out of the void to explain it all away. “Don’t focus on the things that are actually there, written by the killer himself. Instead, can we please focus on my pet theory that has no hard evidence to back it up? If you don’t…you are politicizing a tragedy!”
Anyway, thanks for the video. I await the next one in 6 months or so 😉
Good day! This post could not be written any better! Reading through this post reminds me of my good old room mate! He always kept chatting about this. I will forward this page to him. Fairly certain he will have a good read. Thank you for sharing!
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I blogged about your rebuttal. There is a real problem on the youtubes with misogyny.
I’m one of those still having trouble wrapping their mind around the misogyny denial. I was one expecting the anti-feminist sorts to be pointing to Rogers as an example of ‘real’ misogyny, and therefor the stuff they spew isn’t.
Also, I liked what you said about the bullying. I only got it fairly mildly as a kid and, still, trying to teach victims to ‘stand up for themselves’ is a horrible answer. It seems to me so obviously much better to get rid of the culture of bullying, along with sexism and racism and all.
Also, happy birthday.
Many many thanks for talking about this, the way the conversation has been framing mental illness and insanity has been deeply uncomfortable and I think you explained the reasons for that very well. It feels very much like it’s been used as an excuse to claim that misogyny is not very important for the motivation, and as such not as bad an issue. It feeds a lot into the myth that mental illness means that someone is dangerous and inhuman, which is a dangerous myth, and downplays the issue of misogyny.
As someone who was bullied as a child, I can say that it’s not very easy to do much no matter how much you’re encouraged to fight back. There are usually more than one who bully and it is usually targeted at those least likely to be able to do much and in such a way that it’s not necessarily obvious to teachers (while fighting back probably will be. Shouting at someone to stop bothering you is a lot more obvious than bothering someone when the teacher isn’t looking). Plus, fighting back tends to just end with more violence, not less. It’s not on the same scale as Rodgers, but it’s still the mentality that dictates punishing those you believe have hurt you. It’s not a solution to the hurt.
What did help was actually the anti-bullying campaigns at my school. Teaching kids to consider other people’s feelings, to not be bystanders, and to talk to teachers actually helped make the environment more compassionate and safe. Part of it might actually have been that there wasn’t much of an anti-teacher mentality among the kids, since most teachers were nice (even when a teacher was perceived as unfair to a student, the others would usually tell another teacher about it) and generally acted as trustworthy adults. Which is a really good thing to have teachers do, as it means that victims can be helped by adults and not have to stand on their own. So I very much agree that teachers, and parents, should be taught about how to deal with bullying and with making it less easy for bullies to have and use power on other kids.
Sorry for rambling on there, but it is an issue that I also find quite important and I really don’t have good experiences with the notion of a single victim fighting back against bullies. Thanks for making this response video. ^_^’
Oh, and happy birthday! Hope it was a great one. ^_^
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That was excellent, thank you Christina. First time I’ve watched one of your videos (only just this month got unlimited bandwidth for the first time), and really enjoyed it, despite the downer material.
As a linguist, too, let me express my admiration for your English skills – a deep and colloquially comfortable display. I speak German, French, and Russian professionally, and have for decades, but could not speak so comfortably without extensive rehearsal, and never so off the cuff as you clearly were for most of this video. I’ll be watching more often, thanks for the thoughtful and entertaining work.
Oh, and happy birthday! My traditional wish: may you have a warm, safe, and loved/loving year, and may you have so many more as you desire, nor more nor less, and may each be better than the last.
Crap! Cristina, sans ‘h’. Apologies, English interfered.
Excellent rebuttal, Christina. Thanks you.
That felt like a brain cleanse. Thanks Cristina, for your clarity and compassion. And for slogging though all that.
It’s a small thing, but I smiled when you said “physically insane”. Her repeated use of “mentally insane” was really, really annoying.
Excellent rebuttal. It does seem that anyone can only argue that extreme misogyny was the root cause of his violent anger if they’ve only read/saw a snippet of his many writings. What is especially frightening and depressing about the IV shooter’s opinions is that so many of his fellow online users seem to share them: that men are entitled to sex from women, that women should be despised for rejecting men, and that some “solution” to the “problem” of getting a woman’s consent for sex needs to be found. The IV Shooter had no problem finding fellow travelers online, and if Ms. Glenn isn’t freaking about that she’s, sadly, blind.
I brought this up over on Aron Ra’s blog as well, but I thought I might bring it up here since this is the source Aron was speaking of.
When you spoke about the legal definition of insanity and of knowing right from wrong, you were incomplete. You’re speaking of types of insanity that provide a legal defense. There are other mental conditions that do not (normally) provide a valid legal defense. Particularly Anti-social Personality Disorder (Sociopathy and Psychopathy). I don’t know if Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Megalomania) would also fit into this category but, in my inexpert opinion, it seems like it would.
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I forgot I had bookmarked this a while back, and finally watched it.
The spam comments above me sound more intelligent than many of the comments on youtube.
When she was talking about victims of bullies standing up for themselves it amused me. Should they star groups to talk about being bullied and think up ways to minimize it? Condemn people that do it so that they will have a hard time socially if they do it. It reminds me of what some feminists do regarding rape, and of course they are treated like lepors because of it. #notallbullies ??
I also find it amusing that the mental illness crowd accuses of people “latching onto” misogyny or guns. Misogyny is plainly spelled out within the guy’s own writing and guns were used to do the killing. Mental illness seems to be the magic reason that was grabbed out of the void to explain it all away. “Don’t focus on the things that are actually there, written by the killer himself. Instead, can we please focus on my pet theory that has no hard evidence to back it up? If you don’t…you are politicizing a tragedy!”
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