Today I walked into my upper-level Eukaryotic Genetics class and saw we were going to be studying Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium for the bajillionth time. One of my biggest pet peeves as a biology undergraduate is learning the same stuff over and over again. I understand there’s some need for review – sometimes you didn’t learn it well the first time, or maybe you’re just rusty and need a refresher. But eventually it becomes a tad bit ridiculous. If you’re a junior or senior Genetics major (aka, people in this class), I would hope you’d have the basics pretty fucking down by now. Let’s see the running total on how many classes have had me review these concepts for far:
Basics on DNA:
Pre-College: 5
College: 13
Mitosis and Meiosis:
Pre-College: 5
College: 10
Mendelian genetics:
Pre-College: 4
College: 7
Hardy-Weinberg Equilibrium:
Pre-College: 2
College: 9
Even if you came from the worst high school ever, you should have been taking the college classes. Granted, I’ve taken some electives that go towards these totals…but at least 4-6 of those classes are mandatory for biology majors. The sad thing? Some people are still confused or lost about these topics. Really? I mean, I understand needing help with three-factor crosses, or elaborate signaling cascades or something…those can be confusing even if you’ve heard it once before. But it’s beyond me how you can get to your final years in a biology program and still not understand the fundamentals. How the hell have you made it this far?
If you’re a upperclassman undergraduate and don’t know what’s wrong with this picture, plz drop out of biology now kthx
We spend so much time reviewing concepts we should have mastered already that I hardly feel like I’m learning anything new from my classes. Most of my intellectual growth has come from working in a laboratory for the past two years, or reading up on science at my own leisure. We’ve yet to cover a new topic in Eukaryotic Genetics, and there are only four weeks of class left. I want to say that I absolutely love the vast majority of my biology Professors, including the one for Eukaryotic Genetics. I don’t blame them for the review, because it seems like so many people need it. The problem is our educational system is catering to the people who are lagging behind, and they end up dragging everyone down with them. I guess I was spoiled being in honors/accelerated programs in high school, but I wish there was some sort equivalent for biology courses here.
This also leads to the scary realization of how low the requirements are in order to get your degree. While I’m at the top of my class, I still feel like there is so much about genetics and evolution that I don’t know yet. I still read journal articles with some difficulty because I’ve never been taught most of the concepts they talk about. In fact, to be a Genetics major you only need to take ONE upper level genetics class, in addition to your “core” introductory biology courses. Same for the Evolution degree – just take the one upper level evolution class, and you’re done. You have to take other upper level biology classes as electives from a list, but you can pick some that aren’t directly relevant.
I realize this post may come off as pretentious/whiney, but I can’t help but be annoyed. It just scares me that I, along with my classmates, will be considered qualified in our field when we’ve learned so little. What’s even scarier is that while I recognize how much more there is to learn and I want to go to graduate school, there are people who still don’t understand punnett squares and they want to become doctors. Yikes. Let’s just hope there’s a difference between “want to become” and “will become.”
Is this a biology specific problem, or do other majors experience this?
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Bachelor’s degrees are the new High School Diploma. Even if you went to a top school, a BA/BS doesn’t necessarily signify any greater understanding of a topic than the average person it simply indicates that you showed up and memorized enough to pass.Which is not to denigrate the degrees, they do show initiative and commitment and many students (such as yourself) are well educated enough in their major to be considered entry level experts.Master’s and Doctorate degrees are where you gain the knowledge that leads to real expertise.
Bachelor’s degrees are the new High School Diploma. Even if you went to a top school, a BA/BS doesn’t necessarily signify any greater understanding of a topic than the average person it simply indicates that you showed up and memorized enough to pass.Which is not to denigrate the degrees, they do show initiative and commitment and many students (such as yourself) are well educated enough in their major to be considered entry level experts.Master’s and Doctorate degrees are where you gain the knowledge that leads to real expertise.
I’m doing fine in physics… however the latest goldwater scholar at my school is, get this, a biology major who does not believe evolution happened. The earth is 6,000 years old… I feel sad for her on the one hand, ‘cuz she’s obviously brilliant but I wonder how far she can get with that opinion… and on the other hand I’m just jealous lol
I’m doing fine in physics… however the latest goldwater scholar at my school is, get this, a biology major who does not believe evolution happened. The earth is 6,000 years old… I feel sad for her on the one hand, ‘cuz she’s obviously brilliant but I wonder how far she can get with that opinion… and on the other hand I’m just jealous lol
“The problem is our educational system is catering to the people who are lagging behind, and they end up dragging everyone down with them.”This is SO TRUE!!! I just stumbled across your blog, but I completely sympathize… =)
“The problem is our educational system is catering to the people who are lagging behind, and they end up dragging everyone down with them.”This is SO TRUE!!! I just stumbled across your blog, but I completely sympathize… =)
I’m another physics major, and I don’t see a lot of review in my courses, but I think our circumstances are a little different, because there’s a definite order in which our courses need to be taken. We learned a bit about Taylor series, for example, in first-year calculus, then proved their validity in multivariable calc, then learned their generalized forms in complex math.In our physics classes, the first year classes tended to do some review of old concepts, but by third year they assume you know everything that came before a given class.I’d say that in a given course, we might have no more than two or three classes (10% of the course, give or take) covering material that’s been taught to us before.
I’m another physics major, and I don’t see a lot of review in my courses, but I think our circumstances are a little different, because there’s a definite order in which our courses need to be taken. We learned a bit about Taylor series, for example, in first-year calculus, then proved their validity in multivariable calc, then learned their generalized forms in complex math.In our physics classes, the first year classes tended to do some review of old concepts, but by third year they assume you know everything that came before a given class.I’d say that in a given course, we might have no more than two or three classes (10% of the course, give or take) covering material that’s been taught to us before.
“The problem is our educational system is catering to the people who are lagging behind, and they end up dragging everyone down with them.”This is why I didn’t learn how to study properly until I hit college. Baaaaad wake-up call.My major, as far as I can tell, isn’t doing as much repeating. I think I’d mid-top of my class but didn’t have any CS or anything higher than Calc 1 in high school so maybe I’m not a good sample.
“The problem is our educational system is catering to the people who are lagging behind, and they end up dragging everyone down with them.”This is why I didn’t learn how to study properly until I hit college. Baaaaad wake-up call.My major, as far as I can tell, isn’t doing as much repeating. I think I’d mid-top of my class but didn’t have any CS or anything higher than Calc 1 in high school so maybe I’m not a good sample.
Yep, I agree.As a “pre-med” biology major/ chem minor, about three quarters of the semester in two of my classes (genetics/general microbiology) goes to going over concepts I already learned in general biology.Even though I’m a junior, I’m actually considering changing my major to chemistry, as my time there will be worthwhile. Unfortunately, it will probably take me another year to graduate, which would be “on time” for me as I’m already a year ahead.But yeah… it is kind of sad how little I FEEL I know as I’m almost done with my bachelors in biology.
Yep, I agree.As a “pre-med” biology major/ chem minor, about three quarters of the semester in two of my classes (genetics/general microbiology) goes to going over concepts I already learned in general biology.Even though I’m a junior, I’m actually considering changing my major to chemistry, as my time there will be worthwhile. Unfortunately, it will probably take me another year to graduate, which would be “on time” for me as I’m already a year ahead.But yeah… it is kind of sad how little I FEEL I know as I’m almost done with my bachelors in biology.
Also, the hamsters were so cute, I didn’t notice that it should probably say MEIOSIS until I read the caption.
Also, the hamsters were so cute, I didn’t notice that it should probably say MEIOSIS until I read the caption.
Yay, you win for knowing it should be Meiosis! I should take off points for calling them hamsters when they’re bunnies, but you’re a molecular person, not an ecologist ;P
Yay, you win for knowing it should be Meiosis! I should take off points for calling them hamsters when they’re bunnies, but you’re a molecular person, not an ecologist ;P
Is it meiosis because one produced four? Does that mean each little bunny has only half of the original’s genetic information?
Is it meiosis because one produced four? Does that mean each little bunny has only half of the original’s genetic information?
Another physics major chiming in:I had to re-learn what vectors are twice in freshman year — we'd done them in AP Physics back in high school, and then we did them again in freshman E&M and multivariable calculus. Thinking back, it was only a day or two of retreading, though, since we quickly moved on to new material. In the second term of junior year, I was doing rotation matrices for three different classes (Quantum III, group theory and lab class), which felt more than a bit weird.The biggest waste of time was Quantum I (8.04 in MIT's course-numbering system). Instead of making the slight time investment to learn marginally more advanced math and thus be able to solve problems in stylish and memorable ways, we spent a semester slogging through tedious make-work which produced no useful insight whatever. Everything we did in that class, we did better and faster the next year. Grumble, grumble.
Another physics major chiming in:I had to re-learn what vectors are twice in freshman year — we’d done them in AP Physics back in high school, and then we did them again in freshman E&M and multivariable calculus. Thinking back, it was only a day or two of retreading, though, since we quickly moved on to new material. In the second term of junior year, I was doing rotation matrices for three different classes (Quantum III, group theory and lab class), which felt more than a bit weird.The biggest waste of time was Quantum I (8.04 in MIT’s course-numbering system). Instead of making the slight time investment to learn marginally more advanced math and thus be able to solve problems in stylish and memorable ways, we spent a semester slogging through tedious make-work which produced no useful insight whatever. Everything we did in that class, we did better and faster the next year. Grumble, grumble.
Well 2 points really1.) Although the assumed state of mind is Meiosis (ie one parent cell becoming 4 gametes in this case [I feel bad because I had to look up the word Gametes, but I think I’m ok as I’m not a biology major]) one could argue it is mitosis and that there was actually 2 separate bunnies to begin with, and that actually isn’t 4 of the same gamete, but I’m arguing with biology nerds when I’m better at inspecting computer viruses and telling you what is wrong with your firewalls.On the point of schools, I think the thing that a lot of people have to remember is that you college doesn’t actually care about your education, and in most cases never will. If anything they want to shuffle as many bodies as they can through the system and collect as much money and interest as they can off said bodies. As such they will lower admission standards and generally dumb down classes as to not scare out their customer base who is paying oh so much money to go to class each morning. The problem there of course is that this leads to inflated class sizes, and that takes us down a path to ineffective teaching, because the college or university has let in so many students that there really is no other choice but for a professor to deal with upwards of 400 students per semester. Its funny that their lack of standards in acceptance is also causing their actual students to suffer as well. Now one could make the fundamental argument that this isn’t a problem at higher level classes in which the class has been narrowed, but why let classes thin the flock when you can have admissions do it for you?
Well 2 points really1.) Although the assumed state of mind is Meiosis (ie one parent cell becoming 4 gametes in this case [I feel bad because I had to look up the word Gametes, but I think I’m ok as I’m not a biology major]) one could argue it is mitosis and that there was actually 2 separate bunnies to begin with, and that actually isn’t 4 of the same gamete, but I’m arguing with biology nerds when I’m better at inspecting computer viruses and telling you what is wrong with your firewalls.On the point of schools, I think the thing that a lot of people have to remember is that you college doesn’t actually care about your education, and in most cases never will. If anything they want to shuffle as many bodies as they can through the system and collect as much money and interest as they can off said bodies. As such they will lower admission standards and generally dumb down classes as to not scare out their customer base who is paying oh so much money to go to class each morning. The problem there of course is that this leads to inflated class sizes, and that takes us down a path to ineffective teaching, because the college or university has let in so many students that there really is no other choice but for a professor to deal with upwards of 400 students per semester. Its funny that their lack of standards in acceptance is also causing their actual students to suffer as well. Now one could make the fundamental argument that this isn’t a problem at higher level classes in which the class has been narrowed, but why let classes thin the flock when you can have admissions do it for you?
As Matt hinted at, college is becoming more oriented toward career training, i.e. learning relatively low-level tasks in order to work at a company for money, instead of for more scholarly pursuits.That said, there are some really mediocre people in every department, either for lack of trying or because they didn’t know what they were getting themselves into. I’m a pure math and CS double degree major, and although there is usually a couple of days of review (no more than a week) at the beginning of a class, if necessary, most of the math classes I’ve taken are pretty self-contained. Once you develop your proof-writing skills, they just start throwing stuff at you from different branches of math, most of which only requires passing familiarity with other branches, if any at all.Honestly, no offense, but Biology and even Computer Science tend to attract a lot of bad students. Many people find Biology an attractive option if they want to do something science-related, but (in my limited experience) usually end up washing out because they didn’t realize Biology can actually have some real substance to it, beyond memorizing definitions. That doesn’t quite address why you’re seeing them in upper level classes, but my guess is there’s a push to keep people in the major, so their department isn’t completely eliminated or downsized.I know our math department would succumb to the same pressure. The science departments here (and everywhere, I would imagine) generally don’t have any kind of competitive admissions process, as compared to a business major, which I hear is pretty difficult to get into. But, honestly, I consider business a non-subject, and no one has ever been able to explain to me what a business major actually does upon graduating, at least in the vast majority of cases where these majors go on to work for someone else, instead of starting their own business.
As Matt hinted at, college is becoming more oriented toward career training, i.e. learning relatively low-level tasks in order to work at a company for money, instead of for more scholarly pursuits.That said, there are some really mediocre people in every department, either for lack of trying or because they didn’t know what they were getting themselves into. I’m a pure math and CS double degree major, and although there is usually a couple of days of review (no more than a week) at the beginning of a class, if necessary, most of the math classes I’ve taken are pretty self-contained. Once you develop your proof-writing skills, they just start throwing stuff at you from different branches of math, most of which only requires passing familiarity with other branches, if any at all.Honestly, no offense, but Biology and even Computer Science tend to attract a lot of bad students. Many people find Biology an attractive option if they want to do something science-related, but (in my limited experience) usually end up washing out because they didn’t realize Biology can actually have some real substance to it, beyond memorizing definitions. That doesn’t quite address why you’re seeing them in upper level classes, but my guess is there’s a push to keep people in the major, so their department isn’t completely eliminated or downsized.I know our math department would succumb to the same pressure. The science departments here (and everywhere, I would imagine) generally don’t have any kind of competitive admissions process, as compared to a business major, which I hear is pretty difficult to get into. But, honestly, I consider business a non-subject, and no one has ever been able to explain to me what a business major actually does upon graduating, at least in the vast majority of cases where these majors go on to work for someone else, instead of starting their own business.
I agree with fullphaser, it could be that 1 bunny originally divided into 2, and then each new bunny divided again. I’d keep the “mitosis”.
I agree with fullphaser, it could be that 1 bunny originally divided into 2, and then each new bunny divided again. I’d keep the “mitosis”.
Finneee, I guess you could argue that it’s just two cells undergoing mitosis, but it’s misleading. When do you ever see drawings or diagrams of mitosis with two cells? Other than embryonic development or something. That would just confuse the crap out of students.And I’m sure someone will now find a photo just to prove me wrong =P Damn you nitpicky people!
Finneee, I guess you could argue that it’s just two cells undergoing mitosis, but it’s misleading. When do you ever see drawings or diagrams of mitosis with two cells? Other than embryonic development or something. That would just confuse the crap out of students.And I’m sure someone will now find a photo just to prove me wrong =P Damn you nitpicky people!
I believe we covered glycolysis in the following classes:Undergrad:general biology 1microbiologybotany (botany was at 1 pm, anatomy was 8 am)cell biologybiochemistrymolecular geneticsmicrobial physiologybacterial geneticsGraduate:biochemistryphysiology and molecular biology of anaerobic bacteria*prokaryotic gene regulation**in these two classes it was in much greater detail and from a different prospective than in the other classes. I still didn’t quite learn it “perfectly” until I was preparing for my prelims, where I was asked to diagram how C. perfringens generates energy from glucose, complete with electron carriers.That said, each time we learned it there were more and more details added so that by the last class I took, prokaryotic gene regulation, what I learned was vastly different than the basic diagrams and pathways in general biology. Well not different but much more involved.
I believe we covered glycolysis in the following classes:Undergrad:general biology 1microbiologybotany (botany was at 1 pm, anatomy was 8 am)cell biologybiochemistrymolecular geneticsmicrobial physiologybacterial geneticsGraduate:biochemistryphysiology and molecular biology of anaerobic bacteria*prokaryotic gene regulation**in these two classes it was in much greater detail and from a different prospective than in the other classes. I still didn’t quite learn it “perfectly” until I was preparing for my prelims, where I was asked to diagram how C. perfringens generates energy from glucose, complete with electron carriers.That said, each time we learned it there were more and more details added so that by the last class I took, prokaryotic gene regulation, what I learned was vastly different than the basic diagrams and pathways in general biology. Well not different but much more involved.
See, I think glycolysis is a good example of how learning should work. Yes, the topic comes up many many times, but usually each time it’s either more complex, or looked at in a particular way relevant to that class. It’s when you have to relearn the bare bones (What’s a punnett square?) that drives me nuts.
See, I think glycolysis is a good example of how learning should work. Yes, the topic comes up many many times, but usually each time it’s either more complex, or looked at in a particular way relevant to that class. It’s when you have to relearn the bare bones (What’s a punnett square?) that drives me nuts.
Math / Physics from Houston here. My experience of review is “a few classes” as well. Certain subjects it does feel like a class is a repeat, but on further reflection I found that the level of detail was higher and the problems assigned were much harder, so there was still a sense of re-immersion for further learning. I also found that I had more math at each level of physics (which makes sense) and thus the problems could be tackled in more detail with fewer assumptions or in more realistic geometries. Example: Junior Thermal Physics this semester we blew through what took half a semester as a Freshman in two weeks. Example2: Advanced Multivariable Calculus kinda-sorta felt like Calc III all over again… but everything was harder, more dimensions, etc. Example3: Modern Physics II (second semester of Quantum Mechanics) felt like a repeat but every problem went a step further with more math. The Engineers were gone so us Physicists did it for real this time. I learned a lot more. I have rarely felt like I was doing infantile stuff over again for no real purpose. It could really be your school and your major. Maybe the professor sets out every semester to do the review at the level of the class and the students drag him / her down every time. Maybe Math professors at UH just flunk you and move on? *shrug*
Math / Physics from Houston here. My experience of review is “a few classes” as well. Certain subjects it does feel like a class is a repeat, but on further reflection I found that the level of detail was higher and the problems assigned were much harder, so there was still a sense of re-immersion for further learning. I also found that I had more math at each level of physics (which makes sense) and thus the problems could be tackled in more detail with fewer assumptions or in more realistic geometries. Example: Junior Thermal Physics this semester we blew through what took half a semester as a Freshman in two weeks. Example2: Advanced Multivariable Calculus kinda-sorta felt like Calc III all over again… but everything was harder, more dimensions, etc. Example3: Modern Physics II (second semester of Quantum Mechanics) felt like a repeat but every problem went a step further with more math. The Engineers were gone so us Physicists did it for real this time. I learned a lot more. I have rarely felt like I was doing infantile stuff over again for no real purpose. It could really be your school and your major. Maybe the professor sets out every semester to do the review at the level of the class and the students drag him / her down every time. Maybe Math professors at UH just flunk you and move on? *shrug*
Brit commenting here – if it’s any consolation, it’s no different this side of the pond. Dumbing down so the unable majority can keep up, large classes to generate lots of lovely cash, fewer and fewer practicals…
Brit commenting here – if it’s any consolation, it’s no different this side of the pond. Dumbing down so the unable majority can keep up, large classes to generate lots of lovely cash, fewer and fewer practicals…
On the bunnies – I was actually assuming that they were individual chromatids in a cell or something as opposed to complete cells themselves – not really sure why, but that’s what my brain told me.
On the bunnies – I was actually assuming that they were individual chromatids in a cell or something as opposed to complete cells themselves – not really sure why, but that’s what my brain told me.
I thought mitosis because all the bunnies look the same like mitosis makes cells that are the same as the parents.
I thought mitosis because all the bunnies look the same like mitosis makes cells that are the same as the parents.
Oh, and I have a minor and not a major in bio so there hasn’t been as much chance for repeat but I really don’t feel like there’s been much repeat. There was a little, especially in first year general bio when I felt like they were trying to even everyone up but it was always expanded upon in more detail once the essentials were reviewed. I hated how much review there was in grade school but there was less in high school and even less in university. In psych there kind of was because first year is all kinds of psych in two courses and then in second year there’s social psych, developmental psych etc but generally there is more detail there too and it makes sense to say a bit about the basics before going into the detail.
Oh, and I have a minor and not a major in bio so there hasn’t been as much chance for repeat but I really don’t feel like there’s been much repeat. There was a little, especially in first year general bio when I felt like they were trying to even everyone up but it was always expanded upon in more detail once the essentials were reviewed. I hated how much review there was in grade school but there was less in high school and even less in university. In psych there kind of was because first year is all kinds of psych in two courses and then in second year there’s social psych, developmental psych etc but generally there is more detail there too and it makes sense to say a bit about the basics before going into the detail.