“I’ll never understand atheism. I mean, there’s tons of evidence for God.”
“Like what?”
“Like morality, for instance.”
“Morality.”
“Exactly. Everybody knows that there’s a real right and a real wrong. You can’t just make it up and call it morality. It has to come from God.”
“So in other words, you’re telling me that all moral values come from an unmarried Father, and illegitimate Son, and a guy that got someone else’s fiancée pregnant.”
“Yes, that’s—wait, what?”
I fought the lol and the lol won.
You win one internets!
There are actually two variants of the argument from morality
1) Everyone in the world apart from the people that don’t have the same basic moral code and as we have ruled out biological or cultural reasons. Therefore god exists
2) Wouldn’t it be awful if there was no great being in the sky to tell us that raping babies is wrong? That would mean it is wrong because we say so rather than because he does. Therefore god exists
Actually, if there is a morality where things are definitely good and somethings definitely wrong, then morality is outside of God and, in fact, God is required to follow those rules… not that he does or anything.
I can’t remember if it was here or another FtB where an apologist tried to argue that causing people to lie did not mean that God committed an immoral act. Whatever.
I dearly love putting religious concepts into plain language. Once you strip away all the trappings, it sounds ridiculous!
Snerkle
Oh I have so got to remember that!
Zing!
I am SO stealing that!
As the Jewish Apocrypha have Mary’s age as 14 you can add Paedophile to the list of God’s sins
…and so began a long tradition…
FTFY.
Would that matter in a Bronze Age patriarchal society? It’s also possible that Mary was fooling around… so we’re could be looking at adultery instead of rape.
I gather most Christians think that the Holy Ghost just waved it’s Ghostly hands and Mary was with child… NOT TRUE!!! The Holy Ghost physically manifests to have coitus with Mary:
(Matthew 1:18) Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together*, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
* came together. synerchomai συνέρχομαι (which is the same Greek word used in the Zeus seducing Leda story – when looked at closely, one finds that the bible generally contains many stories that at the core are rip offs of earlier myths from Hindu, Greek and Egyptian mythologies)
But the “before they came together” there refers to before Mary and Joseph “came together,” not before Mary and the Holy Spirit “came together.”
That is hilarious! Thanks for the retort. I’m appropriating that, for sure!
Much as it’s nice to magnify the wrong, you can’t really say “against her will”. There’s explicit consent in the story.
Been a while since I read this stuff… Matthew renders the story as just “His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.” There isn’t even implied consent, nor any explanation of why they believe it to be so. That said, Luke’s version does clearly imply consent. So I guess you’re right.
Of course, it’s sort of like arguing whether or not the Trix Rabbit has a chemical or a psychological addiction, y’know?
“If there was no God, would you murder people?”
“No, of course not, I’m not a bad person. That would be just wrong.”
Interesting that you bring this up. My first step into unbelief was when I realized (at age 13)that I didn’t need God to tell me not to mistreat people. What a relief that was!
According to St John the Damascene, Mary’s perpetual virginity meant that she must have conceived through her ear.
So please tell your parish priest that the Pope is wrong about aural sex.
“Everybody knows that there’s a real right and a real wrong. You can’t just make it up and call it morality. It has to come from God.”
If everybody (including God) knows that they can’t just make it up and call it morality, it can’t come from God. It contradicts itself.