As a dad, I sympathize with the sentiments in this video, but I don’t know what to do about the problem.
"Dear dad" (english) from Jakob Strom on Vimeo.
It is a real problem, and here we are on the internet where the problem has been amplified a thousand-fold, and giggling man-children hide behind their anonymity and gleefully, darkly, maliciously vomit up misogyny at will. I can protest, and I do, but it just broadens the target of their hatred to include me.
I don’t think the solution is more paternalism. It has to involve allowing more women the power to use their strength.
whelp. i’m now bawling at work. good thing i come in early and no one is here.
Regarding the giggling man-children with their Rape Threat Tourette’s, the solution is that *everyone* calls the assholes out.
They are not going to stand up for their beliefs if there is any kind of social cost attached. This is why you don’t see many people carrying a sign saying “I hate n*ggers” even if this is what they secretly think. Likewise, the many who genuinely think the Jews are behind the recession know there is a cost attached to being caught spray-painting “Juden raus” on a wall.
Well, for a start let’s ban “boys will be boys”, dear fellow parents of any gender. Boys who don’t learn right from wrong and who have their bad behaviour excused because of their gender grow into the Danny Holzclaws of the world.
Also, whether the term “wh*re” is an accurate description of somebody or not does not matter in regards of how that person should be treated. Men label women “wh*res” because sex workers are excluded from the category of people who receive basic human respect and decency. When a man calls a woman a wh*ore he says: the normal rules of behaviour no longer apply because you are no person.
I wished that women understood this as well. They think that being called a wh*re is bad because sex workers are bad people AND that their own behaviour was somehow the reason why he applied that label to them.
That was heartbreaking…
I’ve recently disassociated myself from two people i’ve known for ages, one of them since i was 3, because i can’t pretend anymore that the homophobic, sexist, racist “jokes” and comments are jokes at all. I hate that i am expected to laugh or agree, i hate that when i don’t i’m the arsehole and that people tell me to lighten up and stop being a buzzkill instead of being horrified at the shite they have just heard. Even when i don’t even bother to say anything…just not participating is enough. It’s costed me rather a lot already and i suspect i’ll end up losing most of my childhood friends over this, but it’s looking like it’s for the better, even if it makes me sad as fuck…I may not have any plans for the weekend but at least i’m not stuck in some bar fantasizing about smacking the person in front of me. Yay…
Sorry, personal derail.
The point is, this kind of thing needs to not be tolerated.
@3 Giliell
The phrase “boys will be boys” is pure unadulterated evil and misandristic as fuck, to boot, just for that extra sprinkle of candied shit on top of the turd muffin.
Outstanding video, cuts right to the heart of many problems. Studies have been done, it’s been shown, many times, that ‘jokes’ which are demeaning and objectifying, sexist humor great adds to attitudes where rape and aggression are seen as favourable. Demeaning and objectifying girls and women is so damn normalized, people seldom think about it at all.
Giliell @ 3:
QFT. Whore, slut, harlot, and so many other words routinely applied to women still have so much power because the myth of the fallen woman lives on, and it remains the responsibility of women to be paragons of virtue, and maintainers of all morality, while men continue to be excused for bad behaviour.
Don’t turn a blind eye if the targets are women of color rather than all women. There is a whole ‘nother strain of this that targets black and latino women.
Sorry PZ, asking men to police others actions IS the start of fixing this problem. We’ve all been raised to shut up, go along, or at least ignore it when sexism and misogyny rear up around us, thus from childhood those who abuse women get validation from each time no one stood up to them. A man labeling another man’s sexism is not paternalism, I can’t for the life of me imagine how you extrapolate one from the other.
You are also wrong that the solution is giving women more power. These are crimes that men commit, we don’t need to give the women guns to fight back–they do fight back, it’s just that they’re just as likely to be punished for fighting back–whether by a man who’s bigger and stronger, or by a society that hates women. The solution is for good men to start shutting down bad men, for the justice system to stop defaulting that a man’s testimony is more credible than a whore’s–sorry, woman’s. That’s the only way giving more power to women will work.
Remember that the solution to abuse caused by a power imbalance is not to arm the natives, but sometimes it’s to disarm the abusers, at least when the abusers are your peers and equals.
Re: Giliell (#3):
Thank you, your comment is, as so often, spot on. I tip my humble cap to you.
Re: Michael Anderburg (#7):
Pardon me, but doesn’t “paternalism” imply it’s just the men, or mainly the the men who are supposed to act? Also, noone mentioned guns, so I have no idea where that came from, since guns aren’t – or shouldn’t – really be associated with “power.”
Lastly, I think allowing women to speak up and stand up for themselves without facing more abuse for their audacity is a form of power, and certainly one everyone should have. What I took away from PZs comment is that everyone should pitch in and should be allowed to, not just men. The harrassment women face is a powerful motivator for them not to speak up.
Michael Anderburg @ 7:
I think you mistake PZ. Yes, men need to speak the fuck up, to other men. Men should provide examples and teaching to boys. Good stuff. There’s something else, though, men can do – stop talking over women, stop mansplaining, let women speak, and bloody well listen.
Right in the feels, dude.
#8, guns is a metaphor for power in how I’ve used it, and no, Paternalism is power that those in authority use to limit the power of another, hence I don’t get how PZ sees an argument for “more paternalism” in that video.
#9, one much, much more important thing that men can do is a) stop raping women and b) stop defending and apologizing for those that do.
Michael Anderburg
It’s deeply paternalistic because the whole thing is framed in terms of father-daughter relationship. Fuck that shit. I don’t deserve being treated like a human being because my father might take offense. My daughters don’t deserve respect just because their daddy loves them very much.
We must stop framing the arguments about women’s rights in terms of our relationships to men. Men shouldn’t stop being sexist assholes because the woman could be their mother/sister/daughter/wife but because women are human beings.
Michael Anderburg:
To be sure. In this case, b) needs to happen first, because it’s rape culture which allows rapists to act with relative impunity.
It’s also important to note that not all rapists are men, and not all victims are women.
Giliell:
QFFT.