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Jun 01 2013

Weird, twisted anti-choice poll

It’s from Jill Stanek, so of course it’s twisted. She’s upset that people might consider Jimmy Connors, ex-tennis champ, to be a bit of a sleazebag for writing an autobiography that shames ex-girlfriend Chris Everett for getting an abortion. It seems to me that it was Everett’s private decision, and that Connors needs some greater ethical awareness, but Stanek instead wants to shame Everett for an abortion 30 years ago. So she has a poll, apparently expecting that a majority would agree with her idea that outing people who got abortions is acceptable.

So far, it’s not going her way, despite her misleading phrasing that abortion is “killing a child”.

Is it acceptable to out the mother or father of one’s aborted child?

No  50.43%

Yes  49.57%

I wonder if she would consider it legit for a third party to reveal any medical procedure received by a woman?

48 comments

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  1. 1
    thunk: turmite city

    1. eek.
    2. It’s spelled “weird”. e before i in this case.

  2. 2
    MrFancyPants

    Only 131 votes as of right now. That poll is going to be pharyngulated to the moon and back.

  3. 3
    Randomfactor

    Unfortunately, the correct answer is “Why the fuck is it anyone’s business but hers?”

  4. 4
    Inaji

    Is it acceptable to out the mother or father of one’s aborted child?

    Voted no. It’s been 38 years since I had my abortion, and it’s never once entered my mind to mention, in any way, who the other half of that contraceptive failure happened to be. Can’t see why it’s anyone else’s business.

  5. 5
    Holms

    So far, it’s not going her way…

    PZ, either you or I have misunderstood the wording of this poll. Surely the answer we would prefer to see out of those two is ‘yes – outing people that have had an abortion should be taboo’. In which case, it actually is going her way.

  6. 6
    David Marjanović

    The question has been reworded to: “Is it OK to out the mother or father of one’s aborted child?”

    74.6% (185 votes)

    Yes 25.4% (63 votes)

    Total Votes: 248

    And next to it, there’s another poll:

    The fate of at least 3 abortion clinics that are the sole providers in their state hangs in the balance. Will we finally see an abortion-free state in 2013?

    Yes 71.65% (321 votes)

    No 28.35% (127 votes)

    Total Votes: 448

    Of course we won’t. We may well see states where women die from illegal back-alley abortions, though.

  7. 7
    Holms

    Oh. Never mind, I see the problem: your wording of the poll is different to that of the poll itself.

  8. 8
    Inaji

    Holms:

    PZ, either you or I have misunderstood the wording of this poll.

    You need to visit the link. The ‘taboo’ business is Stanek’s wording, the wording of the actual poll is “Is it acceptable to out the mother or father of one’s aborted child?”

  9. 9
    Eristae

    Did they change the wording? Because right now it says

    Is it acceptable to out the mother or father of one’s aborted child?

    not

    Should outing the other parent of a child killed by abortion be taboo?

  10. 10
    Eristae

    Oooh, I see what they did. Right above the poll it says

    Is it acceptable to out the mother or father of one’s aborted child?

    And in the poll itself, it says

    Should outing the other parent of a child killed by abortion be taboo?

    That’s either an indication of dishonesty or stupidity. Possibly both.

  11. 11
    gheathen

    Up to 79.5% NO response. I predict the poll will disappear any…time…now….

  12. 12
    ashley L

    Only 20% yes as of my vote a second ago

  13. 13
    gheathen

    Also, if you clear your cookies each time you can just keep on voting:-)

  14. 14
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Of course we won’t. We may well see states where women die from illegal back-alley abortions, though.

    It seems something like an Underground Railroad might be in order….

  15. 15
    Onamission5

    No 83.33% (340 votes)

    Yes 16.67% (68 votes)

    Total Votes: 408

  16. 16
    Inaji

    Azkyroth:

    It seems something like an Underground Railroad might be in order….

    What makes you think such a thing isn’t (and has been) going on? Jane* is far from dead, and many of us are part of an informal network which helps women as much as possible, with money, transportation and places to stay. However, given how many states are now down to a single clinic (or none), and those down to one clinic are subject to such harsh restrictions, there are limits to what any collective can do.
     
    *For those too young to remember: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Collective

  17. 17
    Darkling

    Irony. One of her commenting is rules is

    Do not violate another’s privacy.

  18. 18
    ck

    <sarcastic>I dunno. Does it mean we get to ruin the lives and/or offer violence against the mother and/or father if they’re outed?</sarcastic>

    Call me cynical, but that’s how I read that poll.

  19. 19
    ck

    Oh, but don’t get me wrong. I’m sure they positively deplore violence and would never endorse the idea of someone doing these things. Only that they would approve of the outcome of “baby killers” getting their just rewards.

  20. 20
    OldEd

    Half way back from the moon already…

    Just voted, and the results…. 465 NO, 69 yes

    Faranglu8ted!!!!

  21. 21
    lockout

    Pretty soon all of our medical records will be public information. As much as I feel for Chris Everett, she is nothing special.

  22. 22
    pinko flaggo

    It’s Evert, not Everett. One of the greatest tennis players of all time.

  23. 23
    Inaji

    lockout:

    Pretty soon all of our medical records will be public information.

    This wasn’t a matter of medical records being made public. It was a matter of an obnoxious person deciding to publish a private matter in a twisted attempt to punish her.

    As much as I feel for Chris Everett, she is nothing special.

    Yes, you feel for her enough to get her name wrong. Your empathy is just oozing out all over. As for her being “nothing special”, she’s a woman with the right to autonomy and privacy in regard to private medical decisions, just like the rest of us “nothing special” women.

  24. 24
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    As much as I feel for Chris Everett, she is nothing special.

    Gee, decide if you want your incontenence/prostate problems, which will happen, to how public. Then that is where you ethically draw the line. Personally, none of anybody’s business.

  25. 25
    lockout

    I don’t mean to be argumentative, but if you read the blog-post, it is spelled ‘Everett’. And high accomplishment does not come with privacy privilege, regardless of spelling.

  26. 26
    Amphiox

    Pretty soon all of our medical records will be public information.

    That would be a gross violation of all medical professional ethics.

  27. 27
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    That would be a gross violation of all medical professional ethics.

    Not to mention HIPAA. Funny how some folks don’t keep up with reality.

  28. 28
    AJ Milne

    One of the greatest tennis players of all time.

    That. Damn straight.

    I was just showing my little guy one of her matches (v. Navratilova, natch), oddly enough. The French open being on, we got to talking about players can handle clay, grass, hardcourt. Evert naturally came to mind. We were just admiring some of her smashes together. He’s eight. He likes those. And damn, but hers are fun to watch. The anticipation. Here it comes. You want to say to her opponent: you put the ball where? That was a bad idea. You imagine absolute glee, as she approaches… There will be blood.

    Connors… I never had much of an opinion on Connors. I’d heard good things about his game, kinda vaguely. Somehow, I seem to have mostly missed his career.

    This other thing, it’s not at all impressing me.

    So I think I’d put it that way to Stanek: Evert is and was awesome. Shame? As if. There is no earthly reason to think any the less of her for this.

    Connors is another matter. Dink move, pal.

  29. 29
    Eristae

    Pretty soon all of our medical records will be public information. As much as I feel for Chris Everett, she is nothing special.

    You know, even if all of our medical records were made public tomorrow (and I see no reason to believe this would be the case), she would still be special by virtue of having been outed before anyone else was and having had such done in a way that was likely to gather special attention.

    Also, I fail to see what point you are trying to make. That we shouldn’t care if women’s medical information is published, specifically medical information that’s likely to make her the target of threats and possibly violence? After all, this isn’t like if someone leaked the fact that I went to the doctor over an ingrown toenail; people get murdered over abortion. So, the message we are supposed to take away from all of this is . . . what?

  30. 30
    anchor

    @#28: feh

  31. 31
    MrFancyPants

    At the rate the pharyngulation is going, the “No”‘s will be in single digits soon.

  32. 32
    ashley L

    oh the comments there. blah blah blah abortion is murder blah blah blah. why is it never the other way around? i say if its illegal for the mother to harm the fetus, it must also be illegal for the fetus to harm the mother. henceforth, babies shall be held legally liable for maternal injury or even death. they will literally be taken to court, put on trial, fined, and imprisoned, just like women would be. fair is fucking fair.

  33. 33
    Ragutis

    Hey! Without shaming others, how’s a person to construct/maintain their superiority complex? You expect people to overcome their insecurities through introspection and effort? Sheesh,.Y’all are just plain inconsiderate.

  34. 34
    anchor

    Pardon my mistake AJ Milne: My ‘feh’ was directed at #21 lockout. Apologies.

  35. 35
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    What makes you think such a thing isn’t (and has been) going on?

    Not being aware of it, obviously…?

  36. 36
    MrFancyPants

    Ding ding ding! Single digit on “yes” now: 7%. Good job, you wicked pharyngulers!

  37. 37
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    oh the comments there. blah blah blah abortion is murder blah blah blah. why is it never the other way around? i say if its illegal for the mother to harm the fetus, it must also be illegal for the fetus to harm the mother. henceforth, babies shall be held legally liable for maternal injury or even death. they will literally be taken to court, put on trial, fined, and imprisoned, just like women would be. fair is fucking fair.

    Oh, it’s simpler than that. If you can tell someone to get the fuck out of your living room, you can tell someone to get the fuck out of your uterus. And you can have the appropriate specialist escort them off the premises if they don’t obey. And it’s not your problem if they have nowhere else to go. Even if you assume a fetus is equivalent to a born person, which, as noted elsewhere, there are overwhelming arguments not to.

  38. 38
    ck

    Caine, Fleur du mal wrote:

    Yes, you feel for her enough to get her name wrong.

    Jill Stanek got it wrong first, and then PZ copied that error. In this case, I don’t think you can really fault lockout for getting her name wrong (although it doesn’t change that the rest of the comment lockout posted is extremely wrong). Jill, on the other hand… Plenty of blame and fault available to be assigned to her.

  39. 39
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Latest figures :

    *****

    Thank you for voting!

    No 93.62% (1,277 votes)

    Yes 6.38% (87 votes)

    Total Votes: 1,364

    *****

    Pharyngulated.

    Interesting~ish maybe :

    Commenting Rules
    Do’s

    “Criticize ideas, not people.”
    Create one original moniker and stick with it.
    Please use a unique name.
    Be civil and considerate.
    Read fully and consider carefully before responding.

    Do Not’s

    Blasphemy will not be tolerated.
    No swearing or slandering of others.
    No deliberate inflammatory comments.
    Do not violate another’s privacy.
    Do not threaten fellow commenters or anyone else.
    No personal, racial, ethnic or gender-based insults/slurs.
    Do not post private personal information about yourself or others.(ie addresses, phone #s)

    Violations will be deleted and you may be banned.
    Threats will be immediately reported to authorities.

    Following these rules will make everyone’s experience visiting JillStanek.com better.

    Our volunteer moderators make prudent judgment calls to provide an open forum to discuss these issues. They reserve the right to remove any comment for any reason. Jill’s decisions on such moderations are final.

    (Emphasis original.)

    I kinda agree with most – though not all (eg. no blasphemy? Fuck off! Swearing banned? Fuck that!) – of those. Her blog not mine or anyone else’s of course and thus her home to set the rules. Same applies to PZ and FTB generally natch.

  40. 40
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @28. AJ Milne :

    So I think I’d put it that way to Stanek: Evert is and was awesome. Shame? As if. There is no earthly reason to think any the less of her for this.

    Fuck yeah! Seconded by me.

  41. 41
    Ragutis

    Left a couple of fun posts there. I’ll copy them here because I have my doubts about their longevity there:

    Um, Mary Ann, is it safe to assume that one of your “etc.”s is rape?

    Y’all think evil socialist nazi muslim Obamacare is making people’s medical decisions for them, but you’re just frothing for Gov’t mandated transvaginal probes and women forced to carry to term inviable abominations and the progeny of rapists under penalty of law.

    Again, hypocrite much?

    Hey, proselytize all you want. Counsel pregnant women, care for their unborn, and provide them families. But if you give the government the power to mandate pregnancy to term, you give them the power to mandate abortion.
    Women MUST have choice. And if your position is as clear and meritorious as you claim, they’ll choose it. Unless it’s not. Or at least not for her. Or her. Maybe her. She’s with you. She’s not.

    Hey! Free marketplace of ideas, right? Invisible hand!

    If she didn’t want to be pregnant–she should not have spread her legs for Connors!

    Absolutely! She should have spread her legs for Martina Navratilova. Right? We could have avoided this whole thing.

    That nobody knew about.

    Or had any right to know.

    Until Jimmy Connors decided to use a violation of someone’s privacy to combat his sense of inferiority. Because being one of the all-time greatest at something just isn’t special enough, one has to attempt to stain or demean someone else in order to really feel superior.

    And, of course, he has absolutely no culpability in the leg spreading decision. I’m sure he fought for his chastity with every ounce of his being. He likely wept as she mounted his bruised, bloodied, bound body.

  42. 42
    =8)-DX

    I’m not exactly sure if that question is appropriate. I mean can someone be “outed” for having their appendix removed? Of course as a medical privacy issue this should be confidential between the doctor and the woman, but surely it would be better if people just treated it as something that shouldn’t really matter?

  43. 43
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    =8)-DX,

    …surely it would be better if people just treated it as something that shouldn’t really matter?

    Think about the same question, but concerning someone’s sexual orientation.

    For both things: sure, it should not matter, but it does. It is something personal, sharing information of which can have negative consequences due to people’s bigotry, and the person should decide for themselves whether they are going to share or not.

  44. 44
    LykeX

    @39

    Do not violate another’s privacy.

    Do not post private personal information about yourself or others.(ie addresses, phone #s)

    I guess medical records don’t count as personal information.

  45. 45
    zmidponk

    =8)-DX:

    I’m not exactly sure if that question is appropriate. I mean can someone be “outed” for having their appendix removed? Of course as a medical privacy issue this should be confidential between the doctor and the woman, but surely it would be better if people just treated it as something that shouldn’t really matter?

    Well, even if society had progressed to the point where the response to “she’s had an abortion” was universally, “OK, and…?”, and even if there was no issue of medical confidentiality, I still say he shouldn’t have written this without Everett’s permission for the very simple reason that it’s bad manners. I mean, all he had to do was replace Everett’s name with ‘an ex-girlfriend’, or something similar, and he could still have written his side of it no problem without impacting on her private life or making part of her private life public.

  46. 46
    Uncle Ebeneezer

    Evert was the precursor to the model of playing that just about every WTA player uses nowadays. Power-baseliner. Along with Martina and Steffi*, she’s usually in the conversation for the greatest female tennis player of all time, given her achievements. She’s a conservative Republican, which makes her abortion decision another example of IOKIYAR hypocrisy, but she isn’t preachy about her views, she showed tremendous support to Martina Navratilova when she was outed in the 80′s. But all that aside, it’s just real sleazy for Connors to bring up the topic in his book. No woman deserves that. By most accounts (especially Agassi’s biography) Connors has always been a self-centered asshole.

    *Though Martina and several other legends claim that Monica Seles was the most dominant player ever, and had she not been stabbed, would have probably left them all in the dust.

  47. 47
    Tapetum, Raddled Harridan

    Feh, Jill Stanek. I have a special place in my awful persons list for her ever since the day she and her commenters argued that the late term D&X of a dead fetus shouldn’t be allowed because it was “disrespectful” of the dead baybee. Never mind the medical hazard to the mother.

  48. 48
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    Is it acceptable to out the mother or father of one’s aborted child?

    “No” now at 95.89% :) hahaha

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