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May 12 2013

Justicar/Integralmath: Wretched skeevy piece of internet offal

Good god. I was just sent a link to this disingenuous youtube video by the above named scumbag in which he lectures Jen McCreight on “security”, claiming that she has revealed clues to her location on twitter, and that she’s either put herself in great danger, or she’s been lying about her concerns for her safety, given all the abuse she gets from wretched skeevy pieces of internet offal. And in the process, he displays all the clues he has!

You know, if he were sincere about sending her a message about security, he wouldn’t have essentially been pointing to her location and announcing to the world how to find her. To add to the hypocrisy, here are his final words to Jen:

Congratulations, you fucking nitwit. If it is the case, that there is a legitimate concern for your safety from the internet, good job posting to more than 9,000 people on the internet exactly how to find out where you commonly are.

Jebus, you hypocrite. You just broadcast the same information in the guise of “helping” someone with their security. This is the act of a coward intentionally taunting others to go do the harm to Jen that he would like to have occur.

I’m also fed up with the binary thinking these vermin propagate. You know, there are more possibilities than that you live like Salman Rushdie, hiding from a fatwah urging religious fanatics to murder you, and living in complete anonymity, unknown to wackjobs. One can also be moderately well known and take simple precautions like not posting your home address, without serious concerns that a determined hit squad is trying to track you down. That someone doesn’t have armed guards around their house does not imply that they haven’t been threatened. But apparently, even a grad student who blogs now and then is considered fair game for veiled threats by the slymers.

Isn’t it amazing that the anti-social justice atheists are now coming full circle to be almost as threatening to those they oppose as the Islamists? Same silencing tactics, same cowardly threats.

478 comments

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  1. 1
    profpedant

    Jen is also smart enough that those ‘clues’ could be one or another sort of misdirection, even if they are also completely accurate statements.

  2. 2
    Natasha

    Mostly it shows me that even if religion were to vanish tomorrow we would still have the same hateful bigots saying and doing the same things. They would just find a new justification for their prejudices.

  3. 3
    Trebuchet

    Warning my ass. It’s the old “we know where you live” intimidation tactic. Nothing more.

  4. 4
    Natasha

    I do believe you have hit the nail on the head Trebuchet. Always with the implied ‘be quiet or else…’

  5. 5
    SallyStrange

    Yeah, it’s impossible to be yourself on the internet and not reveal clues about where you’re at or what you’re doing from day to day. It’s only a problem if you have people trying to take advantage of that basic fact to do you harm. It’s the same old, same old: you can only be a woman in the public sphere if you’re okay with intimidation and harassment.

  6. 6
    Argle Bargle

    As far as I know, the only people Jen has to be worried about are dudebros like Justicar.

    Just sayin’.

  7. 7
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    It’s the same old, same old: you can only be a woman in the public sphere if you’re okay with intimidation and harassment.

    SallyStrange, are you implying that Justicar’s privilege is showing?

  8. 8
    hyperdeath

    If you ignore the trolls, they’ll go away.

    Oh wait…

  9. 9
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    SallyStrange, are you implying that Justicar’s privilege is showing?

    Yep. And we’re zeroing in on Justicar’s location for a huge pile of Pullet Poop to be delivered via the intercontinental trebuchet…

  10. 10
    sprocket

    The thing that pisses me off most about Justicar is the fact that being gay, he should understand what lack of privilege is all about. I got in an insane argument with him a year or two ago in which he tried to tell me “faggot” is not offensive.

  11. 11
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I got in an insane argument with him a year or two ago in which he tried to tell me “faggot” is not offensive.

    Well, of course not. The archaic meaning is a piece, or bundle, of fire wood (or the NATO code-name for a MiG 15). And since it has another meaning it could never be considered offensive to anyone, right?

  12. 12
    Stacy

    The thing that pisses me off most about Justicar is the fact that being gay, he should understand what lack of privilege is all about. I got in an insane argument with him a year or two ago in which he tried to tell me “faggot” is not offensive.

    He’s dishonest and narcissistic. There’s no point in arguing with him.

    Justicar is a toxic human being.

  13. 13
    sprocket

    Well, of course not. The archaic meaning is a piece, or bundle, of fire wood (or the NATO code-name for a MiG 15). And since it has another meaning it could never be considered offensive to anyone, right?

    Except his argument was even worse than that. It all came down to “Well I’m gay and I’m not offended by that word. It’s just a word”

    I really don’t get it but I’d like to quote one of the last lines from the Simpson’s Episode of Bart Gets an Elephant:

    Some of them act badly because they’ve had a hard life, or have been mistreated…but, like people, some of them are just jerks.

  14. 14
    oolon

    My Nana used to like to eat a faggot for dinner, disgusting things, could be the reason I’m a veggie. I’m not surprised Justicar plays that game, 101-level pit logic.

    I hope Justin is on this as he needs to update his “Vacs top tips for avoiding bullies” … I’m sure one was; do not engage with them and they’ll leave you alone. Of all the people involved with the so called “drama” Jen has for quite some time been out of it, even to the point of having a blog post making it clear she is out of it.

    From now on, trolls and haters will be ignored…

    Hasn’t that been the anti-FTB dogma for quite some time now? Ignore them, they are only trolls…. Seems they never give up.

  15. 15
    Jadehawk

    I don’t know what kind of “revealing where you’re commonly found” he’s talking about, and I’m disinclined to listen to find out.

    But, 1)Jen has always been open about where she was living/studying, so most people would have known where she is because she would have been open about it before this crap even started. It would be fairly pointless to try to conceal a location already known to everyone for security reasons. And 2)I don’t necessarily think this is about trying to intimidate; they’re just calling Jen a liar, because no one who’s ever been seriously threatened has been trying to continue living their life as normal as possible, and therefore not going full anon must mean she’s lying about having received threats, amirite?

  16. 16
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Except his argument was even worse than that. It all came down to “Well I’m gay and I’m not offended by that word. It’s just a word”

    Insert the sound of a needle dragging across a 45 of Hang on Sloopy (kids, ask your parents).

    Remember what I said about his privilege showing?

  17. 17
    Jadehawk

    I got in an insane argument with him a year or two ago in which he tried to tell me “faggot” is not offensive.

    IIRC, he was also the one who believed he lived in a post-racist Australia

  18. 18
    ChasCPeterson

    This is the act of a coward intentionally taunting others

    He’s dishonest and narcissistic.

    this is pretty much all there is to know about The Justicar, right there.
    He is playing gotcha, always.
    Proud coiner of “Twatson”.
    (but I’m pretty sure he’s not Australian)

  19. 19
    myeck waters

    Dragging the needle across it is the only proper treatment for Hang on Sloopy.

  20. 20
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    IIRC, he was also the one who believed he lived in a post-racist Australia

    I bet he supplied the same evidence he does for feminism being bad, or the US being a post racist/sexist/bigoted society:
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    *Crickets chirring*

  21. 21
    sprocket

    Remember what I said about his privilege showing?

    Heh! Well put.

  22. 22
    SallyStrange

    IIRC, he was also the one who believed he lived in a post-racist Australia

    Haha, no, I think that was Morales actually.

  23. 23
    Tigger_the_Wing, Back home =^_^=

    Post racist? Bwahahahaha!

    I will acknowledge that the racism of this country isn’t anywhere near as blatant as it was when I was learning about the country in school during the 60s and 70s. There is a lot less racism amongst the younger generation than there is in their grandparents, for instance. But those grandparents are largely still around, still spewing the nastiest stuff I’ve ever heard and poisoning the ears of anyone who cares to listen, leading to pockets of the country where the culture is as racist as any Klu Klux Klan meeting.

    Many of the worst of them that I met in my rounds as a Postie were only too pleased to see a white face and hear an English accent – they thought it gave them carte blanche to declaim about the ‘horrible’ multi-culturalism of modern Australia, which was the very thing they left England to get away from. They came to Australia in their stinking droves in the 50s and 60s precisely because of the White Australia Policy. They thought that England was being ‘ruined’ and are now of the opinion that Australia is being ‘ruined’ too, and fully expected me to agree with them. The most frustrating part of such encounters was that, because I was at work, I was forbidden to tell them exactly what I thought of their horrible attitude.

    There are some very nice European-Australians. They tend to be utterly ashamed of their horrible relatives.

    But the old bigots just won’t shut up. Fortunately, they will die out. Unfortunately, they seem to have very long lives and are taking advantage of their longevity to continue to spread their vile muck and influencing as many of the younger generations as they can.

  24. 24
    ChasCPeterson

    nah, The Justicar is not Austalian.

    And that’s the nicest thing I can think of to say about him.

  25. 25
    Lou Doench

    Dragging the needle across it is the only proper treatment for Hang on Sloopy.

    It’s still a shitty thing to do to your needle ffs! You know how hard those can be to get ahold of these days?

  26. 26
    PZ Myers

    Yeah, last I heard he’s from Tacoma, a short drive from where Jen lives…which makes his stalking even creepier.

  27. 27
    Jadehawk

    Haha, no, I think that was Morales actually.

    well, it’s morales, too. But one of the pitters, before he became a pitter, made that argument here, too. I remembered it as Justiciar, but it might have been another one; it’s been too long, and the archives are gone/unsearchable.

    The way I remembered the conversation, that pitter was claiming that his Aboriginal friends are cool with him using racial slurs, and his company mostly hires Indian immigrants, therefore post-racist Australia.

  28. 28
  29. 29
    jefrir

    The way I remembered the conversation, that pitter was claiming that his Aboriginal friends are cool with him using racial slurs, and his company mostly hires Indian immigrants, therefore post-racist Australia.

    I remember the conversation, but I think it was one of the more short-term trolls (on Pharyngula, anyway – he’s probably still talking shit over on the slymepit or something)
    They all seem to blur together after a while.

  30. 30
    John Morales

    [OT]

    SallyStrange:

    Haha, no, I think that was Morales actually.

    Jadehawk:

    well, it’s morales, too.

    Nope. I’ve never made such a claim nor do I believe that it’s the case.

  31. 31
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Nope. I’ve never made such a claim nor do I believe that it’s the case.

    I think it’s either ABQuirky or StevoR. Sounds like their unexamined presuppositions.

  32. 32
    maudell

    Everyone knows it’s wrong to speak publicly while female.

  33. 33
    Eric O

    I’m amazed and saddened that some of the skeeziest people I’ve ever encountered on the Internet are part of the atheist movement. When I started following this movement ten years ago, I never would have guessed that assholes like Justicar would be so common.

  34. 34
    okstop

    Feminist progress brings out the angry misogynists, just like the election of Obama brought a bunch of frothing racism to light. I had a friend who thought that America was “over” racism, no matter how many times I assured him it was not, until Obama’s election. Then, with all the ugly responses that happened shortly after… he was amazed. Shocked. Dismayed. He really had no idea. Privilege is a hell of a drug.

    But in any case, it’s the same principle. As feminist causes actually start to make progress, the hateful misogynists start to freak out. They start to say “what everyone’s thinking”… and are shocked to find that, no, not everyone is thinking that. It throws them for a loop. All of the presumed social proof they had for their beliefs is evaporating, so they start speaking out more loudly and gravitating toward each other. Revolution always inspires counter-revolution. But remember that by the time the privileged have to start loudly, hatefully, and stridently proclaiming and defending their privilege, its already starting to erode.

  35. 35
    PZ Myers

    You know what also annoys me about this? It’s explicitly counter to the goals of the wider atheist movement, in which we want people to step forward publicly and be the face of atheism. Look at that story about Gage Pulliam, for instance: he went public despite public opprobrium for atheists.

    Jen puts her name and face up front for the cause. Regressive asshole atheists use that to harass her personally.

    And conversely, this coward Justicar/Integralmath hides behind a pseudonym, bragging about how careful he is to keep his identity covered, while sniping at the atheists who have more guts than he does. You wanna know why he and other slymers are poison? Because they don’t stand up for any cause. They’re dead spots in the movement.

  36. 36
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Justicar deletes the video and pats himself on his back for doing so. Behold the pretzel logic of the slymies.

  37. 37
    David Marjanović

    Justicar deletes the video and pats himself on his back for doing so.

    I followed the link and shook with disgust.

  38. 38
    Ophelia Benson

    PZ @ 24 – it’s not the guy in Tacoma. I’d heard that too, but more recently I saw it corrected, complete with a photo of the guy in Tacoma – def. not Justicar.

    He’s always said he’s in this area though, I think maybe in Seattle.

  39. 39
    Ophelia Benson

    Justicar has been all over Twitter jeering at Jen for not thanking him for so kindly making a video to point out the location clues. MAKING A VIDEO. If he wanted to warn her he could just email her, or ask someone who knows her to do so. There are ways he could have done it without broadcasting it. You don’t make a fucking video to WARN somebody. What a stinking liar.

  40. 40
    Ophelia Benson

    And this business of jeering at us because he doesn’t believe us about “threats.”

    He named me first of all.

    “Threats” weren’t even on my radar until shits like him came along and got busy tageting us day in and day out. I still don’t think people are out there waiting to shoot me…But what I do think is that a group of people who spend a lot of time every single day frotting each other’s hatred of the same 5 or 6 people – not popes or bankers or CEOs but bloggers – are creating a climate, and that a climate can become threatening. I think they’re playing with fire.

  41. 41
    anteprepro

    I’m amazed and saddened that some of the skeeziest people I’ve ever encountered on the Internet are part of the atheist movement.

    At one point, I was in denial. I had heard of the people at /b/ and other websites that just loved to be contrarian assholes. They just loved to push the envelope, transgress every boundary. For all the awful things they say and purport to do, I cringed, looking at how frequently they often like to bash religion. And I saw the very real prospect that they were atheists. And I rejected it. Or at least minimized it. “They aren’t probably atheists” I thought to myself. Most atheists are calm and sensible and rational and don’t fuck with people for the lulz. They aren’t harassers, aren’t bigots, aren’t borderline criminals like these folks. Their arguments over religion must be sectarian differences, I thought to myself. The trolls must be a different set of believer mocking those who have a different brand of nonsense. They couldn’t possibly be atheists, a position that obviously required such analysis and intellect! They couldn’t hold such a thoughtful, accurate position and yet be so willing to behave amorally in a way that was far more befitting a straw atheist constructed by Christians than any other of the few non-believers I’d ever met! An atheist couldn’t spout out such ill-thought out arguments, couldn’t believe that the thin gruel they spat out at others was anything but the dreck it clearly was! Sure, there are some bad atheists, some unintelligent atheists, but there simply couldn’t be quite that many of them!

    The years have not been kind to those illusions. I’m not quite sure how I managed to fool myself to begin with.

  42. 42
  43. 43
    okstop

    @PZ (#33):

    Spot on. This is why I encourage all of my friends who are atheists to be vocal about it. I mean, and also not scumbags, but it’s my goal to see that there is not overlap between the groups “my friends” and “scumbags.”

  44. 44
    PZ Myers

    He’s just standing in solidarity with his fellow vermin.

  45. 45
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    One really should read all of that link if you have not already. Yemisi Ilesanmi has been handing Pitchguest, johngreg and Damion Reinhardt back their heads and asses on a platter. It is rather glorious.

  46. 46
    janiceintoronto

    Golly gee whillikers. Another demented fucking asshole posing as a human.

    Seems like the vermin is just getting everywhere these days.

    Words fail me. And that’s saying something.

    Janice in Toronto. That’s in Canada for the idiots who can’t figure it out on their own.

  47. 47
    boby

    The thing that pisses me off most about Justicar is the fact that being gay, he should understand what lack of privilege is all about. I got in an insane argument with him a year or two ago in which he tried to tell me “faggot” is not offensive.

    He’s not the only one.

    I too am a gay guy who does not think that “faggot” is necessarily offensive; whether “faggot” or any other word is offensive depends on context. If someone uses that word with the intent or effect of marginalizing me or any other LGBT person, then it is offensive in that context. Otherwise, I don’t give any magical power to the word.

  48. 48
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    That touches on why I stopped using “bitch” in my moniker. While socially, I will call someone that I have admiration for a “bitch” (One of my grandmothers was an “evil bitch” and I loved her for that.), it is within a group that I am comfortable with and understand what I mean. While my use of “bitch” here was meant as a joke, I was using the insults that I got from trolls here, I became concerned that my moniker could be used as an excuse to continue using it against other women. So, in mixed company (like this blog), I have stopped using it.

  49. 49
    anteprepro

    He’s not the only one.

    I too am a gay guy who does not think that “faggot” is necessarily offensive; whether “faggot” or any other word is offensive depends on context. If someone uses that word with the intent or effect of marginalizing me or any other LGBT person, then it is offensive in that context. Otherwise, I don’t give any magical power to the word.

    And what of the people who do find it offensive? Who link any use of the word with those who use the word to denigrate? Link it with those who want to be offensive, those who want to make it hurt? I hope that you aren’t as dismissive towards those people who do take offense as your phrase “don’t give any magical power to the word” implies. They might have good reason to treat such an epithet with more aversion, to associate it with more inherent negativity, than you have decided to. I just hope that you aren’t looking down on people simply because they “take offense”, as that is a very common trap to fall into.

  50. 50
    Rey Fox

    MAKING A VIDEO.

    It’s the only way they can communicate; turning on a webcam and grunting at it. They really are worthless.

  51. 51
    Xanthë, Amy of my threads

    boby, at #45

    I too am a gay guy who does not think that “faggot” is necessarily offensive; whether “faggot” or any other word is offensive depends on context. If someone uses that word with the intent or effect of marginalizing me or any other LGBT person, then it is offensive in that context. Otherwise, I don’t give any magical power to the word.

    Who needs to give magical power to words? They’re just very occasionally shorthand indicators of character, so that when I saw a guy yesterday mouthing a slur as he passed by me, chattering to his mates, I was able to consign him to a category of ‘worthless asshole I’m not interested in knowing’.

    So what; I wasn’t greatly upset by the slur – but that doesn’t give me the latitude to deny anyone else their reaction to the same word in effectively the same situation. We’re not all emotionless Vulcans, boby; people are allowed to have different and equally valid reactions to offensive behaviour; thus your argument that ‘faggot’ isn’t necessarily offensive contextually misses the point. The person to whom the slur is made is part of the context; the usual slyme-pit dodge is to rewrite the context to say, ‘there’s no way that I would find that offensive’.

  52. 52
    DLC

    Of course you know, nobody is really ever truly anonymous on the internet. A determined person can find you, one way or another, by fair means or foul. I’m not saying it’s easy or that doing so would be right or nice or fair, just that it’s not so easy to hide out as Justadumbass thinks.

    His post is doubly ironic in that it is he and his actions that cause nice people like Jen to have to worry for their security. Gee, I dunno.

  53. 53
    DLC

    (delete that last bit “Gee I dunno” it’s a sentence fragment that leaked out of my brain. )

  54. 54
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @37. Ophelia Benson :

    Justicar has been all over Twitter jeering at Jen for not thanking him for so kindly making a video to point out the location clues. MAKING A VIDEO. If he wanted to warn her he could just email her, or ask someone who knows her to do so. There are ways he could have done it without broadcasting it. You don’t make a fucking video to WARN somebody. What a stinking liar.

    This – so much this. Seconded by me.

    There are ways to warn people – privately or even publicly without doing further harm. Its like “warning” someone that their fly is open by pointing to it and shouting that warning at the top of your in a crowd. I cannot believe Justicar doesn’t know that and know that his warning hasn’t made things worse. has.

    @ 33. PZ Myers :

    Jen puts her name and face up front for the cause. Regressive asshole atheists use that to harass her personally. And conversely, this coward Justicar/Integralmath hides behind a pseudonym, bragging about how careful he is to keep his identity covered, while sniping at the atheists who have more guts than he does. You wanna know why he and other slymers are poison? Because they don’t stand up for any cause. They’re dead spots in the movement.

    ^This too is just 100% spot on.

    @27. jefrir :

    “The way I remembered the conversation, that pitter was claiming that his Aboriginal friends are cool with him using racial slurs, and his company mostly hires Indian immigrants, therefore post-racist Australia.” – Jadehawk (ed.)

    I remember the conversation, but I think it was one of the more short-term trolls (on Pharyngula, anyway – he’s probably still talking shit over on the slymepit or something.) They all seem to blur together after a while.

    & #29.Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls :

    I think it’s either ABQuirky or StevoR. Sounds like their unexamined presuppositions.

    NOT me.

    I have never used any racial slurs here.

    Nor have I been part of the slimepit or commented there.

    Nor do I work for a company being a part time self-employed worker.

    Nor have I claimed to have aboriginal friends – I don’t, although I am friendly towards Indigenous Australians.

    So Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls you are totally wrong – again.

  55. 55
    Muz

    Justicar’s basically a smirking troll with a big future as some sort of contrarian conservative columnist if he plays his cards right.
    I mean, he’s supposed to be Mr smart computer guy with all his brains he has. He knows perfectly well that if you really want to find someone on the internet, you can. This is just silly captious mud slinging, in the guise of reason. Something he does a lot.

    I don’t want to go to don’t feed the trolls territory, but it’s hard not to wish this one was never given the satisfaction of a reply a lot of the time.

  56. 56
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    I have never used any racial slurs here.

    Nor, I hasten to add before anyone maliciously twists my words, have I ever used racial slurs elsewhere either.

  57. 57
    Jadehawk

    I just had a look at Yemisi’s A+ thread. I want to share with you this epic fail that is pitchguest’s argument against the existence of A+:

    When they speak of Stalin, of Pol Pot, of Mao Zedong, they say they were atheists and they did terrible things, and we say “so what?” They didn’t do what they did in the name of atheism, atheism isn’t an ideology or a religion. Now with Atheism Plus™, can we say the same thing? In the name of Atheism Plus™ and “social justice”, could we excuse the behaviour of someone who, say, decided to kill a lot of Muslims because many Muslims abuse their wives and subjugate women? Yeah, a hypothetical situation, and perhaps a little hyperbolic, but I hope you get my point.

    1)yeh, that scenario is only “perhaps” and only “a little” hyperbolic. [/sarc]
    2)how broken does your brain have to be to worry that it’s gonna be the A+ crowd that’ll produce the Islamophobic mass murderer?!
    3)why the everglorious fuck would you want to “excuse the behaviour of someone who, say, decided to kill a lot of Muslims”?! I hope that was just a bit of illiteracy, and he meant “explain as not caused by atheism”

  58. 58
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @29.Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls :

    In future if you can’t remember who said what about X then you should say so or check before accusing people.

    That you don’t do this indicates that it is your opinion that regularly deserves to be dismissed as unsupported by evidence. (Floosh.)

  59. 59
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    I must say I’m relieved to hear that Justicar isn’t Australian. We have Hoggle, we don’t need more slime.

    I also remember the “post-racial Australia” convo, and I think it was a passing troll, not a regular or a pitter. Not 100% sure. I’m sure it would never be a John Morales thing – he seems to me to be weirdly unsocialised, but he’s neither stupid nor evil.

  60. 60
    boby

    And what of the people who do find it offensive? Who link any use of the word with those who use the word to denigrate? Link it with those who want to be offensive, those who want to make it hurt? I hope that you aren’t as dismissive towards those people who do take offense as your phrase “don’t give any magical power to the word” implies. They might have good reason to treat such an epithet with more aversion, to associate it with more inherent negativity, than you have decided to. I just hope that you aren’t looking down on people simply because they “take offense”, as that is a very common trap to fall into.

    What I think about such a individuals, just like what I would think of a person’s use of a word, would depend on a lot of factors, i.e., context.

  61. 61
    boby

    Who needs to give magical power to words? They’re just very occasionally shorthand indicators of character, so that when I saw a guy yesterday mouthing a slur as he passed by me, chattering to his mates, I was able to consign him to a category of ‘worthless asshole I’m not interested in knowing’.
    So what; I wasn’t greatly upset by the slur – but that doesn’t give me the latitude to deny anyone else their reaction to the same word in effectively the same situation. We’re not all emotionless Vulcans, boby; people are allowed to have different and equally valid reactions to offensive behaviour; thus your argument that ‘faggot’ isn’t necessarily offensive contextually misses the point. The person to whom the slur is made is part of the context; the usual slyme-pit dodge is to rewrite the context to say, ‘there’s no way that I would find that offensive’.

    For the sake of clarity, I was talking merely about whether a word is offensive or not, not people’s internal emotional reaction to a word. There is a reason I spoke in the first person when I said, “I don’t give any magical power to the word [faggot].”

    Whether a word is offensive and whether a person has a strong emotional reaction to a word are two different questions. A word can be offensive, yet the denigrated party might not experience any strong emotions in reaction. Alternatively, it’s possible the word can be not offensive, yet the party being addressed might experience strong emotions anyways.

  62. 62
    anteprepro

    I have never used any racial slurs here.

    Yes, no matter how racist you are and have been, you haven’t said a slur . Have a fucking cookie.

    What I think about such a individuals, just like what I would think of a person’s use of a word, would depend on a lot of factors, i.e., context.

    Heh, fair enough.

  63. 63
    Amphiox

    I have never used any racial slurs here.

    If you had actually bothered to follow the thread of conversation Nerd was replying to, you would have known that it had nothing to do with racial “slurs”.

    For your benefit, here is the comment that started the chain:

    IIRC, he was also the one who believed he lived in a post-racist Australia

    And, point of fact, you most certainly HAVE made statements that can easily be interpreted to be consist with this claim.

    Your problem remains, as ever, that you seem think that one can avoid being racist just by avoiding the simple and obvious things like “slurs”.

    That is not so.

    And also, THREE f*cking posts on THAT?

    This thread is NOT. ABOUT. YOU.

  64. 64
    anteprepro

    Whether a word is offensive and whether a person has a strong emotional reaction to a word are two different questions. A word can be offensive, yet the denigrated party might not experience any strong emotions in reaction. Alternatively, it’s possible the word can be not offensive, yet the party being addressed might experience strong emotions anyways.

    Hmmmm. It might not all the time, but it should be the case most of the time. A word that consistently doesn’t cause negative emotional reaction isn’t really “offensive”. At least I can’t think of way that a word could fail to have a negative emotional charge and yet still be considered offensive. Though not all words that cause negative emotional reactions are “offensive”, all “offensive” should provoke such a reaction at least to some degree, a good chunk of the time. I don’t think people would consider something offensive in a way that was independent of actual emotional reaction to the word, the connotations of the word, or the concepts described by the word.

  65. 65
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ 61. Amphiox : No this thread isn’t about me. I agree with you there.

    But does that mean when someone falsely accuses me of saying things I didn’t say in passing that I’m not allowed to correct the record and point out that I didn’t say what someone has accused me of saying?

    Note that most of my first comment (#52) was on topic and seconding what Ophelia Benson and PZ Myers had written. I agree with them and most of the others here on the OP.

    I do reserve the right to correct errors and lies others – like you – make about me here.

    For instance you’ve just now falsely accused me of being a racist.

    So FYI: No I’m not racist – I’m against racism and think its is an ugly, irrational and harmful prejudice like homophobia, transphobia and misogyny.

    Don’t want a thread to be derailed into a discussion about me – then don’t lie about me or accuse me of stuff I haven’t done.

    Oh and one more correction :

    There are ways to warn people – privately or even publicly without doing further harm. Its like “warning” someone that their fly is open by pointing to it and shouting that warning at the top of your in a crowd. I cannot believe Justicar doesn’t know that and know that his warning hasn’t made things worse.

    The missing word there was “lungs” as in the saying at the top of your lungs.

  66. 66
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    StevoR

    In future if you can’t remember who said what about X then you should say so or check before accusing people.

    Who gives a shit what bigot like you thinks period. Don’t ever address me again. What you have to say isn’t worth the electrons you use to post it. Think about that before you befoul this blog again. But then, that requires you to acknowledge your bigotry….You are too stupid for that introspection to happen.

  67. 67
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    No I’m not racist

    Sorry, you are a proven racist and bigot. What you think is irrelevant. Shut the fuck up and GO AWAY AND STAY AWAY. Otherwise, nobody here is interested in your bullshit.

  68. 68
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Gives Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls’ inaccurate and unevidenced opinion the treatment it richly deserves.

    *Floosh*

  69. 69
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Gives Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls’ inaccurate and unevidenced opinion the treatment it richly deserves.

    *Floosh*

    As I do to each of your ignorant and bigoted posts *floosh* loser. Try not posting here again. You can only gain in stature by such behavior….

  70. 70
    omnicrom

    StevoR I am really impressed at your stunning ability to never learn. Had you merely said “That wasn’t me, I never said we live in a post-racial society” and left it at that then no one would have had to drag up your ugly history of racism. Had someone made a snarky comment about how you’re proof we don’t live in a post-racial society considering your racism you would have had recourse to call on the reset rule. But no, you took personal umbrage that people would confuse another racist with you and now that you’ve gone all defensive the topic is open and your history as a racist and the discussion of your racism has been broached by YOU.

    It really is stunning that you keep reopening this wound StevoR. Stop talking about race and stop getting defensive about being a racist and your sojourns on Pharyngula would be so much more pleasant for you.

  71. 71
    Patrick Stinson

    @10: You too?

    @45: Justicar goes much farther than that. He thinks that anyone, gay or straight, who is offended by having the word addressed at them, is wrong. He was offended by ME when I suggested to someone ELSE that the word “faggot” could be offensive when addressed to someone, because being straight I, according to him, did not have the right to point that out to another straight person.

    Not long after I blocked him when he implicitly insulted my wife for being “overly sensitive” about the subject of rape.

  72. 72
    chigau (違う)

    StevoR
    Here is something you could try:
    go away

  73. 73
    vargonian

    @StevoR, you’re posting in the FreeThoughtBlogs forums. You should know the drill by now. So far you’re at least a racist for no reason. I’d cut your losses before you’re declared a misogynist and a homophobe. There’s no reasoning with people who have already made up their mind, and willfully shut out other opinions. We know this because we’re skeptics, and we actually (at least purport to) care about critical thinking. We know that we should always be open to the possibility that we’re wrong. We should always be willing to listen to opinions that may threaten our worldview. We should never fallaciously dismiss a person’s argument because of particular details about their character–whether they be real or imagined. This is critical thinking / Rationalism 101.

  74. 74
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    So far you’re at least a racist for no reason.

    Nope, there is plenty of reason. Wanting to commit genocide to a billion people, for example, just a kill a few thousand who cause trouble. You need to shut the fuck up until you understand what the situation is.

    There’s no reasoning with people who have already made up their mind, and willfully shut out other opinions.

    That’s you. Show us EVIDENCE, not your OPINION. Your OPINION is *floosh* dismissed as unevidenced fuckwittery.

  75. 75
    omnicrom

    Vargonian either your sarcasm needs some more clarity or you’ve never had the pleasure to reading some of StevoR’s previous posts. Like the ones where he graciously extended the title of “Western” to Japan because Japan is civilized and a good country and completely failed to understand why considering only Western countries to be good and civilized is a wee bit racist. Or when he fantasized about dropping Daisy Cutter bombs on Arabs. Or when he spat out some serious Islamophobia and has never ever apologized for it.

    That’s assuming you’re being ingenuous which I question.

  76. 76
    vargonian

    Nope, there is plenty of reason. Wanting to commit genocide to a billion people, for example, just a kill a few thousand who cause trouble.

    I apologize; I should have said “No ‘stated’ reason”, since you (at least as far as I could tell) never provided any. From someone reading these comments without seeing any context, I saw a person in complete agreement with PZ’s post who suddenly was targeted for no apparent reason. Maybe he’s a terrible person who said terrible things in the past. Would you not agree that, perhaps, you should cite these before just shouting out accusations?

  77. 77
    Ing

    Racist fuckwit stevor is making another thread all about his whining? that’s never happened before

  78. 78
    Ing

    @74

    Fuck off

  79. 79
    vargonian

    @omnicrom I apologize; as an outsider I don’t have any context, but I appreciate you providing me some. To me it looked like someone getting blindly accused of something (without anyone backing up these accusations). I know that the FreeThoughtBlogs have a nasty reputation for doing this, so I apologize if my preconceived biases colored my view of the situation.

  80. 80
    vargonian

    @omnicrom If you look at comments like @76, you’ll see what I mean. This is the sort of reputation this forum has unfortunately received–that it shuts people out rather than actually fostering discussion and debate. To me, what I saw happening to StevO (who granted, could be a horribly racist person) was the typical “Ban first, ask questions lat–oh wait, we can’t ask questions because we already banned them” mentality. But clearly StevO has some history of racist remarks.

  81. 81
    omnicrom

    Vargonian it didn’t strike you as odd that the unanimous consensus responding to StevoR after they showed up was “Oh jeez not this Racist again”? Also the fact that upon seeing everyone shunning StevoR as a racist the fact that your immediate response was to assume that everyone in FTB is a bunch of irrational haters is a tad odd.

    And no stated reason? Antipepro attacked StevoR by pointing out that while StevoR may not have used slurs they were racist. Amphiox points out that the comment of a racist person is in line with what StevoR had said previously. Nerd called StevoR a racist and a bigot. I pointed out that StevoR has REPEATEDLY done himself a disservice by popping up being racist. I would hope the outside observer would assume that after numerous people all talked about StevoR being racist and refering StevoR’s previous incidents of racism that this StevoR fellow has said racist things in the past. Perhaps that outsider would ask more about why StevoR is being called a racist if they were unsure what was going on. I question why the outsider would mock and belittle the community here and imply they were irrational and hateful right off the bat.

  82. 82
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I apologize; I should have said “No ‘stated’ reason”, since you (at least as far as I could tell) never provided any.

    Anybody who has been reading this blog for the last year would know of StevoR’s bigotry, and inabiltiy to see it. Anybody jumping into the middle without taking time to research the problem is a PROBLEM.

    Would you not agree that, perhaps, you should cite these before just shouting out accusations?

    Who the fuck are you to tell anybody how to behave? Think about that before you tell anybody off. And until you apologize for being an ignorant asshole, there is no reason to talk to you or take what you say as as anything other that blather.

    I apologize; as an outsider I don’t have any context,

    That’s the start. No get of your high horse, and stop acting and voicing MRA script # 7. That doesn’t get you anywhere.

  83. 83
    chigau (違う)

    vargonian
    So you came in here, saw comments attacking StevoR and assumed StevoR’s innocence.
    hmmmm
    go away

  84. 84
    vargonian

    Perhaps that outsider would ask more about why StevoR is being called a racist if they were unsure what was going on.

    I appreciate the clarification. I searched for relevant comments but saw only accusations (and not from as many people as you brought up–my mistake). And again I apologize for my preconceived biases. You’re exactly right that I should have looked at the overwhelming consensus for clues. It was probably a case of special pleading on my part, to trust the overwhelming consensus of outsiders who view FreethoughtBlogs as a place that shuts out dissenting opinion, labels people as “misogynist”, “homophobe”, etc. at the drop of a hat; and yet not trust the consensus of the commenters in the very thread I was commenting on.

  85. 85
    vargonian

    @81

    So you came in here, saw comments attacking StevoR and assumed StevoR’s innocence.

    I didn’t assume innocence, I just–as a critical thinker–wanted to know what this evidence was because all I saw were assertions, coupled with the typical blind squelching of dissenting opinions in the form of “Fuck off” or “go away”. Admittedly, this reinforced all my preconceived notions about this forum.

    go away

    Hmm :/

  86. 86
    A. Noyd

    vargonian (#74)

    Would you not agree that, perhaps, you should cite these before just shouting out accusations?

    Are you suggesting StevoR doesn’t know what the other regulars are referring to or is it that you think it’s terribly important for folks on the sidelines to know the details behind accusations made against people who aren’t them?

    (#77)

    I apologize; as an outsider I don’t have any context, but I appreciate you providing me some.

    Oh, now you’re an outsider, are you? A moment ago you were presuming a different level of familiarity, saying StevoR “should know the drill by now.”

    I know that the FreeThoughtBlogs have a nasty reputation for doing this, so I apologize if my preconceived biases colored my view of the situation.

    And gays have a nasty reputation for recruiting kids to join their “lifestyle.”

    If you’re really sorry, quit trying to defend your foolishness.

  87. 87
    Amphiox

    But does that mean when someone falsely accuses me of saying things I didn’t say in passing that I’m not allowed to correct the record and point out that I didn’t say what someone has accused me of saying?

    IF he had actually falsely accused you of anything, you might have a point, but, as I explained in the second half of my post, which I note that you have completely ignored, he DID NOT falsely accuse you of what you claimed him to be accusing you of, namely of using a racist “slur”.

    And what he actually DID accuse you of, is frankly, quite true (though in truth something much more minor).

    If anything, YOU are the one who falsely accused HIM.

  88. 88
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    s. It was probably a case of special pleading on my part, to trust the overwhelming consensus of outsiders who view FreethoughtBlogs as a place that shuts out dissenting opinion, labels people as “misogynist”, “homophobe”, etc. at the drop of a hat; and yet not trust the consensus of the commenters in the very thread I was commenting on.

    Gee, still following Slymepit script #7. Why don’t you just go away. By the way, what EVIDENCE are you providing if you dissent? That is the problem with the Slymepit. They must have their OPINION treated as EVIDENCE. You, if you are serious, will get your evidence from. here. That would a fresh perspective compared to unevidenced dissenter.,…

  89. 89
    omnicrom

    @omnicrom If you look at comments like @76, you’ll see what I mean. This is the sort of reputation this forum has unfortunately received–that it shuts people out rather than actually fostering discussion and debate. To me, what I saw happening to StevO (who granted, could be a horribly racist person) was the typical “Ban first, ask questions lat–oh wait, we can’t ask questions because we already banned them” mentality. But clearly StevO has some history of racist remarks.

    I find it curious you are so ready to accept the reputation that people like the MRAs and the self-important theists and the various other assholes we offend have made for us. It definitely doesn’t help your position as an impartial outsider to have already heard and accepted that we’re mean nasty people.

    As for banhappy nice try. StevoR has been here being a racist for YEARS. Txpiper has hung around being an insipid lying goddist for over half a decade now. md is still crawling around and that person is a sort of platonic form of the unpleasant uber Libertarian. joey still pops up in Thunderdome and is still as obnoxious an anti-abortioner as ever. Bannings are actually very rare, it took a tremendous amount of effort on behalf of Lee Coye to get himself sacked and noelplum was shitting up the joint for years before being swatted.

    Also shutting out debate and discussion? You haven’t been here long have you? Pharyngula has healthy debates on all sorts of things. However Pharyngula does not tolerate racism, sexism, insipid religiosity, and overall maintains a very liberal swing. You will however not find much politeness, here what you say is more important than how you say it.

    You were told to fuck off BTW because you came in here buying the line we’re terrible terrible people and after being told what StevoR has done to demonstrate himself a racist you got defensive at your own ignorance. It also doesn’t help that as Nerd points out you’ve sounded exactly like one of the dime-a-dozen MRA assholes who occasionally pop in here to be smug and arrogant. I suggest if you want less negativity from the Pharyngulites you cut your losses and lurk some more to see how the community actually is.

  90. 90
    Amphiox

    I didn’t assume innocence, I just–as a critical thinker–wanted to know what this evidence was because all I saw were assertions, coupled with the typical blind squelching of dissenting opinions in the form of “Fuck off” or “go away”.

    I real critical thinker would do his own homework and research the history of StevoR on Pharyngula, in order to get at least a sense of the dynamics and history at play before barging in with his own self-important commentary.

    You are no critical thinker. You just appear to like to play one on the internet.

  91. 91
    vargonian

    Anybody jumping into the middle without taking time to research the problem is a PROBLEM.

    Still, no doubt there are new users to this forum every day, who would also see these accusations without specifics and think “wow, these people sure are hostile.”

    Who the fuck are you to tell anybody how to behave? Think about that before you tell anybody off.

    I actually never told anyone how to behave. I just asked if you agreed with the notion that, rather than pigpiling on someone with nasty accusations, especially when that person is repeatedly denying them, you could actually respond to them with evidence backing up your assertions. By no means should you consider this a mandate, a demand, etc. I just think it’s a good rule of thumb, and wonder if you agree.

    And until you apologize

    I’ve already apologized for making assumptions, as you can clearly see in my comments above.

    No get of your high horse, and stop acting and voicing MRA script # 7. That doesn’t get you anywhere.

    I’ll agree not to act like an MRA script (though honestly I don’t know what that would sound like, so I can only do my best based on vague notions). And as a gesture of good will, perhaps you can agree not to act as though you’re on a witch hunt?

  92. 92
    chigau (違う)

    Admittedly, this reinforced all my preconceived notions about this forum.

    This is not a ‘forum’.
    I rephrase, “Stop saying stupid stuff or go away.”

  93. 93
    vargonian

    @86

    Gee, still following Slymepit script #7.

    I’ve only recently learned what the “Slymepit” is. Can you do me a personal favor and not act as though you’re on a witch hunt, accusing me of being some MRA or Slymepit member or whatever else the case may be? It’s important (as a critical thinker) not to draw conclusions beyond the evidence.

  94. 94
    vargonian

    Oh, now you’re an outsider, are you? A moment ago you were presuming a different level of familiarity, saying StevoR “should know the drill by now.”

    By any reasonable sense I am; it’s very rare that I visit these forums. I am very well aware of the reputation they have, though. In fact, these sorts of witch hunts / conspiracy theorizing are part of that negative reputation.

  95. 95
    vargonian

    @90

    I rephrase, “Stop saying stupid stuff or go away.”

    I would argue that it’s more “stupid” to merely write “go away” repeatedly without any substance. But then we’d have a difference of opinion, which of course shouldn’t be a problem. While it may annoy me personally, I would never wish for you to “go away” simply because I don’t agree with what you’re saying. So please, stay. Stay and speak your mind.

  96. 96
    omnicrom

    Still, no doubt there are new users to this forum every day, who would also see these accusations without specifics and think “wow, these people sure are hostile.”

    No, I think a new user would notice all the people saying that StevoR is a racist in different ways and assume that perhaps StevoR is a racist. Though it helps that these people do not buy into the idea that FTB is full of FTBullies.

    I’ll agree not to act like an MRA script (though honestly I don’t know what that would sound like, so I can only do my best based on vague notions). And as a gesture of good will, perhaps you can agree not to act as though you’re on a witch hunt?

    This line here is an example of why people are on your case vargonian. You’re being smug and passive-aggressive. If you were on the level you would have asked what the MRA script is instead of trying to be witty and making that crack about “doing my best”. That line there is self-satisfied and smug, shifting the blame onto us for your bad behavior. And then you get defensive calling people who are not happy with you being biased and smug “on a witch hunt”. This is not the way to get people to stop going on “a witch hunt” at all.

    Also the MRA script? Yeah, that’s coming in here and being self-satisfied and smug about how we’re all meanies and being defensive and trying to be witty about it when the point is pushed. Again, cut your losses and lurk more.

  97. 97
    barfy

    Bloggers like Jen and PZ are truly heroic in my eyes, for several reasons – not the least of which that they allow themselves to become public figures.
    Believe it or not, I was a very public figure once, hosting a talk radio show that came on right after Rush Limbaugh. I actually had people call me at home. You’d be surprised at how aggressive and threatening people can be…at least I was.
    My wife was VERY happy when the show ended.
    It is extremely difficult to put yourself out there and take a political stance. You are ridiculed and criticized mercilessly. I should know, I do it to PZ all the time.
    The fact that I find difficulties with many of PZ and the Hordes viewpoints, does NOT mean that I don’t respect the valuable and necessary role that he plays. I am very grateful.
    I actually view this forum as a dialectic more than a debate. And, no, I don’t think the tone is maximally effective. The reason I engage in the tone is because this is the language that the master prefers.
    Bottom line, this guy is acting like an asshat in his very unfair criticism. Jen, and PZ, and everyone else who puts themselves out there are heroic in the best sense of the word.

  98. 98
    PZ Myers

    StevoR: I know you think you are just defending yourself from false accusations, but ONCE AGAIN you have derailed another thread into repetitive whines that you are “NOT A RACIST”. Stop it. Just stop it forever. At this point I don’t care whether you are or not, if you keep it up I’m going to ban you just so you can stop exploding all over threads. Two hints: don’t say racist stuff (in particular, don’t respond to every mention of Muslims with accusations of their perfidy), and stop insisting that you are not a racist. That’s what racists do all the time. Just let it die.

  99. 99
    echidna

    Vargonian,

    This is the sort of reputation this forum has unfortunately received–that it shuts people out rather than actually fostering discussion and debate. .

    Using the passive voice means that some information is missing: among whom does FTB have this reputation? Where are you getting this idea from?

    In a long-standing blog, comments have a contextual history. Pharyngula has been around long enough that it has a lot of history, much of it promoting discussion and debate.

    But there are certain attitudes that get shut down promptly: kicking down at groups or people who have less social privilege than the speaker is one. This is a good thing.

  100. 100
    chigau (違う)

    vargonian

    So please, stay. Stay and speak your mind.

    jeez thnkx
    I think I’ll stay.
    Can’t say the same for you…

  101. 101
    A. Noyd

    vargonian (#83)

    Admittedly, this reinforced all my preconceived notions about this forum.

    So when your preconceived notions weren’t confirmed by how people were treating StevoR, you decided to take your confirmation from how people are now treating you. Except, as a critical thinker, you shouldn’t be looking for confirmation of preconceived ideas in the first place. Furthermore, you’re not being told to fuck off because of your “dissenting opinions.” You haven’t presented any opinions—dissenting or otherwise—merely babbled anti-FtB talking sliming points and insincere apologies in a sneery tone while patting yourself on the back! It’s not a witch hunt to be unwelcoming of that.

    (#91)

    Can you do me a personal favor and not act as though you’re on a witch hunt, accusing me of being some MRA or Slymepit member…

    “I’m not a duck” sounds more convincing when you’re not quacking after every word. Just sayin’.

    (#92)

    I am very well aware of the reputation they have, though.

    Did my point about the reputation gays have go sailing over your head?

  102. 102
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    vargonian wrote:

    …as a critical thinker…

    Show, don’t tell.

  103. 103
    Ze Madmax

    vargonian @ #91

    Can you do me a personal favor and not act as though you’re on a witch hunt, accusing me of being some MRA or Slymepit member or whatever else the case may be? It’s important (as a critical thinker) not to draw conclusions beyond the evidence.

    Except that, based on evidence available to the more regular members of this blog, you DO sound like you’re reading off a script, what with accusations of witch hunts, hostility, automatic labeling of people as homophobes/sexists/racists, etc. And perhaps you are honest in your claim that you’re a relatively naive commenter who was led astray by misconceptions about this site. That does not change the fact that you sound an awful lot like the people who make a hobby out of trash-talking FTB, mostly because they have some issue with social justice (the kind of issue which, coincidentally, suggests these people are homophobes/sexists/racists).

    In short: There is evidence, and people here are using it. The fact that you’re unaware of said evidence does not mean that the regular commenters are failing to engage in critical thinking. On the contrary, one could argue (three-post rule notwithstanding) that giving you the benefit of the doubt would be evidence of a sort of naivete and disregard for available evidence that suggests lack of critical thought.

  104. 104
    Jadehawk

    I didn’t assume innocence, I just–as a critical thinker–wanted to know what this evidence was because all I saw were assertions

    I call bullshit on this, given this is your first comment in this thread:

    @StevoR, you’re posting in the FreeThoughtBlogs forums. You should know the drill by now. So far you’re at least a racist for no reason. I’d cut your losses before you’re declared a misogynist and a homophobe. There’s no reasoning with people who have already made up their mind, and willfully shut out other opinions.

    that’s not “wanting to know”, that’s “FBT are ebil”

    And as a gesture of good will, perhaps you can agree not to act as though you’re on a witch hunt?

    oh honey; given that your very first comment was an assumption that what was going on was a witchhunt, I’m going to just go ahead and not trust you to recognize what is or isn’t one.

  105. 105
    Jadehawk

    It’s important (as a critical thinker) not to draw conclusions beyond the evidence.

    vs.

    @StevoR, you’re posting in the FreeThoughtBlogs forums. You should know the drill by now. So far you’re at least a racist for no reason. I’d cut your losses before you’re declared a misogynist and a homophobe. There’s no reasoning with people who have already made up their mind, and willfully shut out other opinions.

    and

    LOL
    apparently, “critical thinking” for vargonian means “accepting unsubstantiated rumors as true, then getting pissy when acting on them makes them look like an ass”

  106. 106
    Jadehawk

    derp. blockquote fail. again:

    It’s important (as a critical thinker) not to draw conclusions beyond the evidence.

    vs.

    @StevoR, you’re posting in the FreeThoughtBlogs forums. You should know the drill by now. So far you’re at least a racist for no reason. I’d cut your losses before you’re declared a misogynist and a homophobe. There’s no reasoning with people who have already made up their mind, and willfully shut out other opinions.

    and

    I am very well aware of the reputation they have, though. In fact, these sorts of witch hunts / conspiracy theorizing are part of that negative reputation.

    LOL
    apparently, “critical thinking” for vargonian means “accepting unsubstantiated rumors as true, then getting pissy when acting on them makes them look like an ass”

  107. 107
    anteprepro

    Vargonian Point A: “Oh, StevoR, I know your plight. FTBers are always on an irrational witch hunt.”
    Vargonian Point B: “Oh, seems StevoR actually earned all that ire. But FTB really is mean…”
    Vargonian Point C: “Oh no, I seem to have angered the FTBers. Always on an irrational witch hunt.”

    Self-fulfilling prophecies are the best kind of prophecies.

  108. 108
    chigau (違う)

    Why do so many of them come in here unarmed?

  109. 109
    Jadehawk

    But then we’d have a difference of opinion, which of course shouldn’t be a problem.

    honeycakes, we’re not having a “difference of opinion”. we’re telling you to shove your prejudices where the sun don’t shine; and we’re laughing at the fact that you can come barreling in here with your prejudices and evidence-free biases, and then get on a high horse about critical thinking.

  110. 110
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I’ve only recently learned what the “Slymepit” is. Can you do me a personal favor and not act as though you’re on a witch hunt, accusing me of being some MRA or Slymepit member or whatever else the case may be? It’s important (as a critical thinker) not to draw conclusions beyond the evidence.

    Stop pretending to be a critical thinker. You aren’t. I’ve been a skeptic for 30+ years, and know all about critical thinking. Which starts with doing your homework, which you didn’t do.

    Your first statement saying we jumped over dissenting opinions was straight out of the script the Slymepit and tone trolls use verbatim. That was your defining moment as a non-critical thinker, which both categories are. Critical thinkers wouldn’t cite those who get nowhere at a shark tank like Pharyngula. They learn what works and doesn’t before jumping in.

    A serious person would lurk for a while before posting to get the lay of the land. In my case, about 2 months.

  111. 111
    Sally Stearns

    Every one of this guy’s videos that he makes harassing her needs to be reported for bullying. His latest is this about how he gets Fan Mail from PZ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta992dqrvqo

    It’s really sad to see all the comments defending him for stalking someone via their Twitter, with this attitude that since it’s public people should expect to be stalked. I really hope none of these guys ever date an emotionally vulnerable girl. What a fucking sad shame these people are.

  112. 112
    chigau (違う)

    I hope none of them ever ‘date’ ‘girls’ of any kind.
    Because consenting adults is better.

  113. 113
    boby

    @62

    I don’t think people would consider something offensive in a way that was independent of actual emotional reaction to the word, the connotations of the word, or the concepts described by the word.

    I consider those things (likely emotional reactions, connotations, literal meaning of the word, and many other things) to be part of the context which determines whether or not the word is offensive.

  114. 114
    boby

    @69

    @45: Justicar goes much farther than that. He thinks that anyone, gay or straight, who is offended by having the word addressed at them, is wrong. He was offended by ME when I suggested to someone ELSE that the word “faggot” could be offensive when addressed to someone, because being straight I, according to him, did not have the right to point that out to another straight person.

    I think you’re correct to urge people to be careful and considerate with their use of language. However, I do think that when it comes to words often used to marginalize a minority, that occasionally a situation will arise when person A will use the word appropriately, but person B (who is part of the marginalized group) may feel marginalized by person A even though s/he isn’t being marginalized by person A.

  115. 115
    Jadehawk

    However, I do think that when it comes to words often used to marginalize a minority, that occasionally a situation will arise when person A will use the word appropriately, but person B (who is part of the marginalized group) may feel marginalized by person A even though s/he isn’t being marginalized by person A.

    i’ve yet to encounter the gay person who gets upset at being asked for a smoke by a brit, or the woman who feels marginalized because people are discussing female dogs.

    where have you run into these rare individuals?

  116. 116
    chigau (違う)

    boby, I’m not sure you are worth the bother.
    I’m sure it will become clear if you continue with the ‘person A’ vs. ‘person B’ stuff.

  117. 117
    athyco

    boby #112:

    …that occasionally a situation will arise when person A will use the word appropriately, but person B (who is part of the marginalized group) may feel marginalized by person A even though s/he isn’t being marginalized by person A.

    Assuming that you’re not talking about person A as depicted in Jadehawk’s #113, what’s your solution?

    Mine is to tell person A that–as the one operating the mouth and supposedly the brain–it is a risk one chooses to run. The world is big enough that there are many areas in which someone may be oblivious, you see.

    I’d remind the oblivious one that any dominant group person A who runs that risk may find that intent isn’t fucking magic. I’d point out that they may be deemed an ass (or worse, depending) in some circles, perhaps far wider circles than they would ever imagine or desire. I’d point out that protesting “I’m not marginalizing!” is an effective way of waving the “me me me me me” flag with all one’s might. I’d remind person A that behaving as though person B’s feelings are within person A’s control is pretty damned egotistical bordering on narcissistic. I’d counsel person A not to say “But my [marginalized group] friend agrees with me!” because person A has [dominant group] friends who don’t speak for each one, much less the totality of [dominant group], and person A won’t want to be that much of a hypocrite. I’d quote to person A the cliche that sometimes when you lie down with dogs (those who marginalize a minority purposefully), you get up with fleas.

    Have you been following Talking Points Memo headlining the Heritage Foundation/Richwine racist immigration findings on IQ as a “race flap”? (AngryBlackLady and GraceIsHuman got damned funny with it after the WTF?!?, but the WTF?!? rightfully came first.) Heritage Foundation/Richwine was purposefully racist. TPM was obliviously minimizing.

    Do you know about people commiserating with Thunderf00t about the “sociopathic behavior” and “horrible cyberstalking” he’s said to be receiving and offering to “stand forth” to “make an example of these kinds of people” while many of the same people who support T’f00t are adamant in their conviction that such things don’t happen to out atheist/feminist women (as exampled by the wretched skeevy piece of internet offal in the OP)?

    Are you aware of a National Review writer on Bill Maher’s show telling Joy Reid that mentioning slavery as it related to the American Revolution was a “cheap” point, that slavery was a “flaw”? Are you aware of the recent problematic Salon writing about abortion?

    Do you know about the sub-redditt showing the obvious difference in response to a man’s posting/photo about overcoming heroin addiction and a woman’s?

    This crap is ubiquitous and institutionalized, and one oblivious person A is going to know that they’re going to be 100% “appropriate”? Color me skeptical.

    I’d tell person A that unless they’re prepared to submerge into a marginalized person B’s experience, they can just fuckin’ live with the boo-boo fee-fees–perhaps even grow into a better person through the experience. A marginalized person doesn’t walk carefree through the world whistling a happy tune until this dominant group person A walks up, uses a word “appropriately,” and is shocked–shocked, I say–that marginalized person B (through devious design or linguistic/sociological ineptitude?) reacts “inappropriately.”

  118. 118
    boby

    @113

    i’ve yet to encounter the gay person who gets upset at being asked for a smoke by a brit

    But I have run into a few gay guys who would be upset if called a fag in a way which non-pejoratively meant gay guy.

    Part of my way of combating hate is to reclaim words usually used hatefully and neutralize them.

  119. 119
    boby

    @114

    boby, I’m not sure you are worth the bother.
    I’m sure it will become clear if you continue with the ‘person A’ vs. ‘person B’ stuff.

    I suggest that you don’t bother if you don’t think I’m worth the bother. That’s what I do.

    I don’t see what the problem is with using ‘person A’ and ‘person B’. Would it be better if I used proper names?

  120. 120
    boby

    @115

    Assuming that you’re not talking about person A as depicted in Jadehawk’s #113, what’s your solution?

    My solution is, in part, to reclaim words in appropriate contexts. Will mistakes in judgment be made as to what are appropriate contexts? Absolutely. However, those mistakes can be minimized through constructive dialog, and by using certain words conservatively.

    I’d remind the oblivious one that any dominant group person A who runs that risk may find that intent isn’t fucking magic.

    As I’ve said before, the appropriateness of the use of a word depends on context, which consists of many factors including, but not limited to, intent. Intent is somewhat magic in the sense that good intent is necessary, albeit insufficient, for the use of the word to be appropriate. Even when the use of the word is inappropriate, good intent often reduces any harm done, and is thus preferable to bad intent.

  121. 121
    jefrir

    But I have run into a few gay guys who would be upset if called a fag in a way which non-pejoratively meant gay guy.

    So we are going with “intent is magic”, then? Good to be clear. And “fag” doesn’t “non-pejoratively” mean gay guy – it is a slur. And I have no fucking idea why you would want to reclaim it.

  122. 122
    Jadehawk

    ut I have run into a few gay guys who would be upset if called a fag in a way which non-pejoratively meant gay guy.

    ?! unless used between gay guys as an in-joke, it doesn’t ever “non-pejoratively mean gay guy”; and if used between gay guys as an in-joke, who exactly would be getting offended? that doesn’t work.

    Part of my way of combating hate is to reclaim words usually used hatefully and neutralize them.

    i hope you understand that the only people who get to reclaim words are those marginalized by them

  123. 123
    Jadehawk

    My solution is, in part, to reclaim words in appropriate contexts.

    this is incoherent, as “appropriate contexts” are those I presented, as well as those in which those who are marginalized by a word reclaim it/use it as an in-joke between them. Unless you’re the worlds most oppressed person, there’s a lot of words you simply do not have the right to “reclaim”, and cannot use in a “appropriate context” except the way i pointed out in #113

  124. 124
    Jadehawk

    As I’ve said before, the appropriateness of the use of a word depends on context, which consists of many factors including, but not limited to, intent.

    so far, all evidence points to “hipster bigotry”; it better turn out that you’re gay and defending the right to reclaim the word “fag” for yourself, because otherwise “hipster bigotry” is going to be the final diagnosis. :-/

    no, intent doesn’t matter, because nobody is a mindreader

  125. 125
    Jadehawk

    Even when the use of the word is inappropriate, good intent often reduces any harm done, and is thus preferable to bad intent.

    not in my experience; show your evidence for that being the case, please.

  126. 126
    satanaugustine

    I loathe Justicar. He is pure malevolence and hatred. I honestly believe that he would be jumping for joy if Jen or Rebecca were murdered. If Justicar were to commit suicide, I’d consider that a positive result for humanity. I know that is a horrible thing to say about fellow human beings, but I’m not talking about them, I’m talking about Justicar.

  127. 127
    laurentweppe

    Isn’t it amazing that the anti-social justice atheists are now coming full circle to be almost as threatening to those they oppose as the Islamists? Same silencing tactics, same cowardly threats.

    Come on: your anti-social justice atheists were identical to islamists from the very beginning: it’s the “anti-social justice” part that matters, everything ensure from there, regardless of the brand.

    ***

    Feminist progress brings out the angry misogynists, just like the election of Obama brought a bunch of frothing racism to light.

    Also look at how mariage equality drove the homophobes out of the wood in France. One year ago, quite a lor of French were willing to assume that in the progressive, enlightened French Republic, homophobia survived only among recent immigrants… Well, at least the full of shit homophobic bigots proved that the xenophobic bigots were themselves full of shit.

    ***

    They couldn’t possibly be atheists, a position that obviously required such analysis and intellect!
    [...]
    The years have not been kind to those illusions. I’m not quite sure how I managed to fool myself to begin with..

    The “I’m very smart ’cause I’m an Atheist” assertion has as much value as the “I’m a good, decent, moral person ’cause I’m a Christian” claim. In both case, proclaiming it makes you look like a douche, and believing it leads you straight to being fucked by conmen specialized in monetizing bigotry.

  128. 128
    =8)-DX

    PZ #33

    this coward Justicar/Integralmath hides behind a pseudonym,

    Just to clarify, using pseudonyms is not cowardly per se, although I’m pretty sure a lot of Justicar/Integralmath’s behaviour could be described as cowardly or hypocritical in this way. I think any person has a right to decide what personal information they share online (and who they share it with), just as any person has a right to divide professional/political/personal lives (and provide different information about themselves in these different spheres).

  129. 129
    Julien Rousseau

    Jadehawk:

    it better turn out that you’re gay and defending the right to reclaim the word “fag” for yourself

    He is, see his #45.

    But think that while it’s worthwhile to try to reclaim slurs, people who aren’t targeted by those slurs shouldn’t use them, even in a non-marginalising way until said reclamation has succeeded.

    So if a non-marginalised person (at least on the axis relevant to the word used) uses a word in a context where it is usually used to marginalise then they are in the wrong even if their usage was not meant to marginalise, because it puts the onus on the marginalised person to decipher whether the use is intended to marginalise them whereas the onus should be on the one trying to communicate.

    satanaugustine :

    I know that is a horrible thing to say about fellow human beings, but I’m not talking about them, I’m talking about Justicar.

    As horrible as he is, Justicar still is a fellow human being. I don’t see how othering him helps at all.

  130. 130
    Jadehawk

    If Justicar were to commit suicide, I’d consider that a positive result for humanity. I know that is a horrible thing to say about fellow human beings, but I’m not talking about them, I’m talking about Justicar.

    what the fuck.

    sorry to disappoint, but assholes are human. dehumanizing them and imagining that only “monsters” can be toxic assholes serves no one, because it denies what our social structure does to humans.

  131. 131
    Jadehawk

    But think that while it’s worthwhile to try to reclaim slurs, people who aren’t targeted by those slurs shouldn’t use them, even in a non-marginalising way until said reclamation has succeeded.

    agreed; tho, even afterwards it can be tricky: “queer” has been rather thoroughly reclaimed, but it can absolutely still be used to marginalize.

    So if a non-marginalised person (at least on the axis relevant to the word used) uses a word in a context where it is usually used to marginalise then they are in the wrong even if their usage was not meant to marginalise, because it puts the onus on the marginalised person to decipher whether the use is intended to marginalise them whereas the onus should be on the one trying to communicate.

    I agree.

  132. 132
    ChasCPeterson

    One of the greatest advertising accomplishments ever was Avis’s ‘We’re #2. We try harder.’
    That’s The Justicar. His sustained bid for the coveted honor of Most Egregious Internet Narcissist (MEIN) was badly sidelined by the noisy distraction of Thunderf**t last year, and of course he has long labored in the shadows of his mentors (AS & JC). So lately he’s been upping his game. And it’s working! Frontpaged on Pharyngula is like a late Motherfucker’s Day bouquet for this clown.

  133. 133
    athyco

    I think that a skeptic who wants to apply the word “magic” to intent is not thinking clearly. How does “magic” apply to “necessary…for the use of a word to be appropriate.” No. “Good intention” and “magic” end up being shorthand terms that actually blur the complexity.

    Intent–when it is “magic,” is being treated as a finite, unchanging thing, like adding tax (bad intent) or applying a discount (good intent) to a listed price. The harm might even be done with no intent at all (misreading the list price). Instead, I consider it a warranty.

    If someone hurts me–intentionally or otherwise–intent continues after that harm has occurred for as long as that someone interacts with me. If that ongoing intent is to stop hurting me, then there’s no way the initial pain is going to be brushed aside. If the intent is to make me comfortable that the hurt won’t happen again, there’s no progress in telling me OK, I was hurt, but that it happened due to my emotional inadequacy or poor comprehension. If the intent is to recognize my separate agency, there will be no requirement for me to give validation to the starting point intent of another person.

    I may decide to brush away the pain, to expand my comprehension, to validate the starting point intent, but “intent isn’t fucking magic” to make any of those things the decision of the person who hurt me, whether it was through a blunder or a blunt slur.

  134. 134
    Jadehawk

    If someone hurts me–intentionally or otherwise–intent continues after that harm has occurred for as long as that someone interacts with me. If that ongoing intent is to stop hurting me, then there’s no way the initial pain is going to be brushed aside.

    not in my experience; people get incredibly defensive about their right to use hurtful words just as long as they don’t mean to hurt.

  135. 135
    jefrir

    Intent is useful inasmuch as someone with genuinely good intent will presumably be motivated to pay attention and not do the same shit again. Thing is, that only works if you do actually make the effort to change what you’re doing. If you’ve been told that something is harmful, and you keep doing it, “I didn’t mean any harm” is no longer a reasonable excuse.
    So, responding to criticism with “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean any harm. I’ll try to avoid saying/doing that in future” will usually go over well. It doesn’t erase the original hurt, but it does help. “I didn’t mean any harm, so you aren’t allowed to be upset” doesn’t work in the same way, and basically just reinforces the idea that whatever shit you wanted to say is more important than other people’s feelings and oppression.

  136. 136
    clydey2times

    Did any of you actually watch the video? Justicar redacted the information that was in the original photograph.

    So no, he did not broadcast Jen’s information via his video. PZ, as per usual, is twisting the facts to suit his preferred narrative.

  137. 137
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    PZ, as per usual, is twisting the facts to suit his preferred narrative.

    Gee, like I take your word for anything factual, as you do have an agenda…

  138. 138
    clydey2times

    @Nerd

    But it is a fact. If you had watched the video, you would realise that it’s a fact. Anything that could have linked to Jen’s location was redacted. Therefore, PZ distorted the facts.

    What don’t you get about that?

  139. 139
    zmidponk

    clydey2times:

    Did any of you actually watch the video? Justicar redacted the information that was in the original photograph.

    So no, he did not broadcast Jen’s information via his video. PZ, as per usual, is twisting the facts to suit his preferred narrative.

    Why make that video at all? If he was genuinely concerned about Jen ‘leaking’ information about herself, here’s an idea – he could have explained his concerns directly to her, PRIVATELY. If he wanted to use this as a more general ‘this is not what to do’ video, there are many ways he could have done so without referencing Jen, and re-revealing as much as he did.

    In short, even if he meant well, he didn’t do well.

  140. 140
    clydey2times

    @zmidponk

    He wasn’t genuinely concerned. Justicar obviously created the video to make a point. Whether or not he succeeded in making that point is another matter.

    However, just because PZ disagrees with him, that doesn’t mean he has the right to outright lie about the content of the video.

  141. 141
    ChasCPeterson

    come on, No, I did not watch the vid, because The Justicar, but it’s my understanding that in this case TJ pointed his viewers (both of them) directly to McCreight’s tweet.
    Then, what, baragained with her for its deletion or privatization or whatever?

    But, yeah, as noted just above, the real question is “why make that vid at all?”

    what is pointless look@mee gotcha shitstirring, Alex?

  142. 142
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Justicar obviously created the video to make a point. Whether or not he succeeded in making that point is another matter.

    Actually, if he was honest about the video he would not have used information from someone his groups is cyberstalking, and perhaps stalking in real life. That was PZ’s point, and the point of person with ethics and integrity. Which leaves you out.

  143. 143
    Sally Stearns

    @clydey2times

    Say you’ve found a security breach in the president’s secret service detail. What would you do? Would you, A: bring it to the proper authorities or B: make a video about the security breach and post it to youtube?

    I’m not comparing the severity of pointing out Jen’s location to a group of people who have sent her rape threats to the act of exposing a hole in the security of the leader of the free world, but the act, while disparate in severity, are equal in threat.

  144. 144
    Nick Gotts

    the leader of the free world – Sally Stearns

    Dang! When was that election held? I must have missed it.

  145. 145
    Thomathy, Such A 'Mo

    Sally Stearns, a very odd turn of phrase there.

    I have a question: Who is Justicar? Not that I’m desperate to find out or anything, but his latest blog post is about how awful gay porn is and it’s replete with his suggestions of how it could be made better …for him.

    Oddly, and perhaps tellingly, there’s an air to that post (perhaps imagined) that his suggestions would somehow objectively improve gay porn for everyone who watches it.

    A follow up question: Why is Justicar so full of himself?

  146. 146
    Amphiox

    Justicar obviously created the video to make a point. Whether or not he succeeded in making that point is another matter.

    Well no duh.

    But the important thing is not whether or not he succeeded in making that point. The point is WHAT kind of point was he trying to make, and whether or not it was ethical of him to attempt to make said point in the manner he chose to attempt to make it.

  147. 147
    Amphiox

    Did any of you actually watch the video? Justicar redacted the information that was in the original photograph.

    Redaction is irrelevant. Someone properly motivated can still extract all the information he needs even with redaction.

    Redaction is like, after slashing someone with a knife, giving them polysporin and bandaids.

    It does not change the fact that the post should not have been made. The only ethically appropriate action in this situation was to have forwarded the information privately.

  148. 148
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    Warning my ass. It’s the old “we know where you live” intimidation tactic. Nothing more.

    Bingo. He’s just trying to amp up the terrorizing aspect of his nonstop harassment, stalking and bigotry.

  149. 149
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    PZ, as per usual, is twisting the facts to suit his preferred narrative.

    Translation: Yeah, it’s just more harassment, but it’s FTB’s fault!

  150. 150
    A. Noyd

    Actually, the ethically appropriate action is to tell the harassers to knock it the fuck off and leave Jen alone so that her posting something that could identify her location wouldn’t even be something to worry about.

  151. 151
    Chie Satonaka

    Justicar obviously created the video to make a point.

    Yes, and that point is, “Shut up bitch, we know how to find you.” Same silencing tactic used by any other abuser.

  152. 152
    Sally Stearns

    @A. Noyd: Definitely, it comes down to the old “don’t teach women how to avoid being raped, teach men not to rape” scenario. Why should Jen have to live on pins and needles because some assholes can’t get it through their head that it’s not okay to send rape threats to a stranger over the internet?

  153. 153
    laurentweppe

    Say you’ve found a security breach in the president’s secret service detail. What would you do? Would you, A: bring it to the proper authorities or B: make a video about the security breach and post it to youtube?

    As a matter of fact, something similar happened to a french guy called Serge Humpich: he discovered a flaw in the encription of the french “Cartes Bleues”, which was thought to be unbreakable (yeah… right). He warned the banks about the flaw despite the fact that he litteraly could have used his knowledge to steal billions, and the banks reacted by discretly lodged a complaint which led to his arrest.

    Sometimes warning the proper authorities does’nt pay.

    Of course, that does’nt make it ok to threaten people under the gise of warning them.

  154. 154
    ChasCPeterson

    Do you want to know how bored I am?
    I looked at The Justicar’s blog.
    He doesn’t seem to use it much since he got into making really bad talking-numbskull videos, but I did find this remarkable example of not-getting-it:

    As we all know, the Patriarchy is like totes for really reals, which is why in times of danger and bloodshed, we can expect these sad stories of women dying while shielding their boyfriends from harm’s way.
    So, RIP, to Jon Bunk, Alex Teves, and Matt McQuinn, who despite the patriarchy’s indifference towards the safety, station and progress of women rose up against the system and died shielding their girlfriends from the rain of gunfire that killed 12 innocent people.
    Or maybe, just perhaps, the Patriarchy is entirely a fabrication of the minds of a few deluded women who find every reason under the sun to excuse away their lack of personal capacity.

    cause those are, of course, the only 2 choices.

  155. 155
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Why is Justicar so full of himself?

    This is the subject of a biopic that should be airing on the Lifetime channel later this summer. I don’t have the whole skippy, but apparently Justicar will be played by a real talking asshole.

  156. 156
    UnknownEric the Apostate

    Pretty much all the slymers can be spotted by their toxic narcissism and arrogance.

  157. 157
    SallyStrange

    Pretty much all the slymers can be spotted by their toxic narcissism and arrogance.

    Pathological narcissism by men correlates highly with misogyny.

    *singing* The more you know…

  158. 158
    satanaugustine

    Julien Rousseau & Jadehawk at 127 & 128:

    Guess I should have added a winking smiley, though do sincerely despise the guy.

  159. 159
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Most of us also despise that person. And most of us did not feel the need to say that about Justicar.

  160. 160
    ChasCPeterson

    Pathological narcissism by men correlates highly with misogyny.

    *singing* Perfectly plausible, but citation please.

    [name that tune!]

  161. 161
    carlie

    Is Justicar not out? I thought I remembered reading somewhere at one time a defense of him that alluded to his work as a “leader” in a specific freethinker’s group that had battled with their local legislature and made it into the news. I didn’t pay enough attention to remember the details, but I remember it being in a tone suggesting that he was ok with people knowing who he was and it was somewhat common knowledge.

  162. 162
    carlie

    And I thought he had bragged about being a public speaker, and complained about not being asked to do more public speaking, which one can’t really do if nobody knows to whom to send the invitation.

  163. 163
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    carlie wrote:

    And I thought he had bragged about being a public speaker, and complained about not being asked to do more public speaking…

    And here we have another major motivator for the ‘pitters and their ilk – that there are women like Jen and Rebecca Watson and Ophelia and Stephanie Zvan who are far, far more prominent in the atheist community than they’ll ever be, which really grinds their gears.

    I think I’ll start calling it Blackford’s Syndrome.

  164. 164
    Louis

    I was told by a reliable source that Justicar was a real intellectual heavy weight with some killer arguments.

    Just thought people might get a kick out of knowing that.

    Louis

  165. 165
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    And I thought he had bragged about being a public speaker, and complained about not being asked to do more public speaking, which one can’t really do if nobody knows to whom to send the invitation.

    I think it’s more they see one of his videos and cross the name off so hard it tears the paper.

  166. 166
    ChasCPeterson

    look, perhaps it would be best if people who aren’t-sure-if-it-was-The-Justicar-or-not to check out your half-remembered story before suggesting to the entire world that he’s an Australian bigot or a well-known leader or 2nd-Kennedy-assassin or whatever.

  167. 167
    ChasCPeterson

    I forgot ‘from Tacoma’ or Kalamazoo too.

  168. 168
    satanaugustine

    Well then Janine, I bow to your moral superiority. Seriously. I’ll express my outrage in the manner of my choosing. If you wish to judge that, OK.

    BTW, in stating that I should have appendded a winking smiley to my comment, I was implying that I meant the last part of what I wrote as a joke (well mostly a joke). I’m going to go out on a very long limb and assume that the humor fell flat because no one here knows me, and thus has no frame of reference for my style of humor, and because this is the internet and miscommunication is much more likely to occur on the internet than when using other forms of communication (such as talking to someone face to face).

  169. 169
    boby

    @119

    So we are going with “intent is magic”, then?

    I am going with intent being one important factor among many. Other factors include, but are not limited to, probable emotional reactions,

    And “fag” doesn’t “non-pejoratively” mean gay guy – it is a slur.

    Sometimes, sometimes not. Do you think I’m insulting myself by calling myself a fag?

    And I have no fucking idea why you would want to reclaim it.

    I’m guessing you’ve never been in the situation in which you, as an LGBT person, dealt with anti-gay bullies trying to get at you by calling you a fag like I have. I my experience, the best way to single-handedly disempower them is to embrace the word instead of resisting it.

  170. 170
    boby

    @121

    ?! unless used between gay guys as an in-joke, it doesn’t ever “non-pejoratively mean gay guy”

    It can also “non-pejoratively mean gay guy” when used by an ally who knows the individuals s/he is talking to.

    i hope you understand that the only people who get to reclaim words are those marginalized by them

    Since the change of a word on a large scale can only be achieved by most people in society using it differently, a minority cannot achieve such a change on their own. For example, let’s say that 7% of the population is openly LGBT. However, the word queer has been (mostly) reclaimed because the individuals in that 93% assisted in reclaiming the word.

    this is incoherent, as “appropriate contexts” are those I presented, as well as those in which those who are marginalized by a word reclaim it/use it as an in-joke between them. Unless you’re the worlds most oppressed person, there’s a lot of words you simply do not have the right to “reclaim”, and cannot use in a “appropriate context” except the way i pointed out in #

    In other words, you’re saying that those not in the marginalized group can never appropriately help out those in the marginalized who want to reclaim the word; the marginalized are own their own. I think that with that approach words will almost never be reclaimed.

    not in my experience; show your evidence for that being the case, please.

    I’m basing that off of my personal experience as a marginalized person.

  171. 171
    boby

    @127

    But think that while it’s worthwhile to try to reclaim slurs, people who aren’t targeted by those slurs shouldn’t use them, even in a non-marginalising way until said reclamation has succeeded

    Such individuals should be conservative and careful about using such words, but not, IMHO, absolutely prohibited.

    So if a non-marginalised person (at least on the axis relevant to the word used) uses a word in a context where it is usually used to marginalise then they are in the wrong even if their usage was not meant to marginalise, because it puts the onus on the marginalised person to decipher whether the use is intended to marginalise them whereas the onus should be on the one trying to communicate.

    I think you make a good point here; a message that’s sent needs to be interpreted; if they use a word in a context where it is usually used to marginalize then it is likely to inadvertently marginalize.

    I do think this problem can mostly go away if you and the marginalized individual(s) know each other well enough that the message will likely be interpreted as intended.

    That’s partly why if someone on the street call my boyfriend and I fags, I wouldn’t appreciated it, but if a friend who knows that I’m OK being called a fag with good intention does so, I support his/her usage of the word in that situation.

  172. 172
    anteprepro

    Well then Janine, I bow to your moral superiority. Seriously. I’ll express my outrage in the manner of my choosing. If you wish to judge that, OK.

    BTW, in stating that I should have appendded a winking smiley to my comment, I was implying that I meant the last part of what I wrote as a joke (well mostly a joke). I’m going to go out on a very long limb and assume that the humor fell flat because no one here knows me, and thus has no frame of reference for my style of humor, and because this is the internet and miscommunication is much more likely to occur on the internet than when using other forms of communication (such as talking to someone face to face).

    It’s dehumanizing even if it was a joke.
    There are other ways to express yourself without dehumanizing people.
    Freedom to express your outrage in the manner of your choosing does not entail that we aren’t allowed to take exception to manner that you choose.
    End Public Service Announcement.

  173. 173
    boby

    @131

    I’m presuming you were responding to me.

    How does “magic” apply to “necessary…for the use of a word to be appropriate.”

    The point was that intent is extremely important, even if it isn’t the only factor.

    In my opinion, intent can greatly change the degree to which the individual may be blameworthy of hurt another person experiences. That’s partly why the law distinguishes between murder, manslaughter, justifiable homicide, and a killing done without criminal culpability due to legal insanity. In all of these cases, the harm done to the individual is just as extreme, and in 3 of the 4 cases the person was wronged. However, what does change in each case is to what level the killer is blameworthy (or possibly praiseworthy). That’s partly what I’m getting at with regard to intent.

  174. 174
    satanaugustine

    It’s dehumanizing even if it was a joke.

    You have every right to hold this opinion, but my sense of humor is what it is and shall remain so, thus I disagree with the “dehumanizing” judgment. I just won’t attempt here since it has resulted in some unnecessary tone trolling. I did, however, offer a plausible hypothesis for why my humor fell flat: no one here knows me.

    There are other ways to express yourself without dehumanizing people.

    Yes there are, but I chose the jokey “dehumanizing” route I did because I depise Justicar just enough to make, according to those who have responded to my comment, an inappropriate joke. I don’t find it inappropriate, but others in this thread have. That’s OK, though it seems especially ironic when, over the years, I’ve read comments by regular Pharyngula commenters – who were not joking – responding directly to another commenter with some along the lines of “Who are you and why should we give a fuck? Get the fuck out of here and go die!” That particular comment is proably at least two years old and I wouldn’t know how to find it, but I think it was left by Caine (and I’m sure the wording is not 100% accurate). I think my comment – especially since it wasn’t directed at anyone on this comment thread – was far tamer. What is the likelihood that Justicar will ever see my comment?

    All that said, I’m sick of attempting to justify my comment to those who will never agree with me. But hey, that’s alright, as I said I don’t agree with your, and other’s, moralizing your values in my general direction, particularly when such value judgments are based on one jokey comment.

    Freedom to express your outrage in the manner of your choosing does not entail that we aren’t allowed to take exception to manner that you choose.

    I never suggested otherwise. Likewise, your (the your who’ve commented on my comment) moralizing does not mean that I cannot respond with clarifications and take exception to the manner in which my comment is being judged, especially when I believe I’ve been severely misinterpreted.

  175. 175
    chigau (違う)

    satanaugustine
    You lack clarity and articulatosityness but I can still tell you are a whiny sucky baby.
    Bless your heart.

  176. 176
    Ichthyic

    This is the sort of reputation this forum has unfortunately received–that it shuts people out rather than actually fostering discussion and debate. .

    Vargonian is a passive aggressive fuckwit that obviously came here to start a fight.

    the innate reaction, correctly, is to tell it to fuck the hell off.

    easy.

  177. 177
    satanaugustine

    chigau – thanks for your well thought out comment. Your clever insults are very much appreciated.

    I can still tell you are a whiny sucky baby.

    Boy do you have me pegged!

  178. 178
    yorsubs

    Sorry, I don’t understand, but please watch Integralmath’s video in full, he makes very good points about how he altered the things that he posted, and did that to protect her in spite of himself. and all of that is verifiable. What has he done wrong ? If any public figure came on tv and said they were in fear of their live and are in hiding, but in the background the address of where they are hiding is clear shown, then what is that person ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta992dqrvqo&list=FLmb8hO2ilV9vRa8cilis88A

  179. 179
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @satanaugustine

    I did, however, offer a plausible hypothesis for why my humor fell flat: no one here knows me.

    Did you consider the possibility that it was just a shit joke?

  180. 180
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    What has he done wrong ?

    Intimidation factor. He should have used his own information as a demonstration, not a women who is being cyberstalked with rape threats. Why are MRA fuckwits so blind to such means of intimidation? Right, they use it to maintain their privileges.

  181. 181
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Check out my new series of videos:
    “Your house is on fire”
    “Your fly is open”
    “There’s a giant monster right behind you”
    “Your whereabouts are known to anyone who would look here”
     
    I just like to help people.

  182. 182
    yorsubs

    Intimidation factor. He should have used his own information as a demonstration, not a women who is being cyberstalked with rape threats

    I can’t support that. If I put myself out there, and have views that people send me threats on (death threats, rape threats etc, the internet is full of this stuff), then that is a bad thing, and I would like to see laws to prosecute people that send threats like this on the interenet. BUT, she puts this stuff up freely, then says that she needs to protect her whereabouts, but puts really obvious clues to her whereabouts all over her videos. If say, someone that was an actor on a soap opera did this (put video-blogs up, then got death threats, then said their location needs to be protected, etc), we would call that person a ‘self-publicising idiot’. What’s different here? If I step back and look at this without predjudice, this guy did nothing wrong. Just like the soap-opera actor should have their rights under law, they have to take personal responsibility for their own actions also!
    It’s like saying, “oh, if I ever stand near cliffs, I fall off !” and then deliberately putting myself in situations where I am close to cliffs, then I have to take SOME personal responsibility for my own actions. I HAVE to take responsibility for that!!
    (note: reiterating this point, since I think it will be misrepresented; I think if this woman receives death and rape threats, the people sending those threats should be prosecuted and potentially imprisoned. the reason I am re-iterating this is I’m wondering if I will be criticised for daring to criticise the person who is at the centre of this discussion as I honestly believe that a very unfair double standard is being employed here).

  183. 183
    John Morales

    yorsubs:

    If I put myself out there, and have views that people send me threats on (death threats, rape threats etc, the internet is full of this stuff), then that is a bad thing, and I would like to see laws to prosecute people that send threats like this on the interenet. BUT, she puts this stuff up freely, then says that she needs to protect her whereabouts, but puts really obvious clues to her whereabouts all over her videos.
    [...]
    It’s like saying, “oh, if I ever stand near cliffs, I fall off !” and then deliberately putting myself in situations where I am close to cliffs, then I have to take SOME personal responsibility for my own actions. I HAVE to take responsibility for that!!

    You would have a point if gravitational force were something that chooses whether to act, like those who harass those who dislike other’s views by threatening them.

    (You’re effectively claiming this Justicar specimen is a mindless thing just like gravity)

  184. 184
    yorsubs

    no, I didn’t say that at all. I said that people should take personal responsibility for their actions, and if they put themselves in a position that they personally feel is dangerous for them (so, posting lots of clues to their location, after saying that their location needs to be protected) then that person (I would say this about myself also) needs to take personal responsibility for their actions. NO ONE has mentioned this. I see lots of stuff about MRA or whatever above, but no one has pointed out that a person must take personal responsibility for their own safety. So, this person puts up public blogs, and then people comment on them. ok, fair enough. Some people are incredibly rude (death threats etc) and those people should be prosecuted, potentially imprisoned (in my view). Some people post views in agreement with her, and some people post views disagreeing with her, and in this case ridiculing her position. His position is reasonable. He is not intimidating her. He is ‘ridiculing’ her position (basically calling her ‘attention-seeking’). If I step away from this, I have to say that if I put myself in that position, then it would be absolutely fair of someone to ridicule me in that way. That is reasonable free speech. I cannot see that what he did was unfair or unreasonable in terms of how the internet operates. Totally non-intimidating, simply ridiculing her. Any person that puts themselves up on the internet has to accept that. I do. I can take it. I don’t need people to defend me if I *am* ridiculed (will this cue vicious backlash ridicule on me? if it DID, that would indeed prove my point). His position is fair. he did not put her in danger. he did not intimidate her. He simply ‘ridiculed’ her OWN actions. Did he ACTUALLY put her in danger? serious question?

  185. 185
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I can’t support that.

    Who gives a shit about your OPINION? Show some evidence, or shut the fuck up. Typical MRA, all attitude, no third party evidence.

    Did he ACTUALLY put her in danger? serious question?

    YES, as anybody understanding stalking would know. What is your excuse for not thinking?

  186. 186
    yorsubs

    Who gives a shit about your OPINION? Show some evidence, or shut the fuck up. Typical MRA, all attitude, no third party evidence.

    do you realise how incredibly intimidating what you just said there is ? is that an ‘ok’ way to talk to someone ?

    ok, you asked me to “Show some evidence”. but what evidence do you want exactly ? you’ve asked for evidence, but for what ? this seems really random and aggressive (are you drunk by any chance ? I deal with aggressive drunk people in my work and what you posted here is incredibly intimidating and aggressive).

    “Typical MRA” so you have stereotyped and abused me ? I honestly can’t undertstand this, why are you attacking me ? I have not attacked you, so what have I said that’s upset you. Your aggression is actually a bit disturbing.

    I do understand stalking. And my point is this. If this person is in REAL danger then we have to contact the authorities and get this sorted out. However, I see people at sports events screaming that they are going to kill people all the time. this is hyperbole. i.e. it’s not a REAL threat. but if this woman is in REAL danger, then instead of getting aggressive at my honesty, why not rationally work towards helping her ? there are many ways to trace people on the internet, and those that have sent such abuse to her should be prosecuted. screaming abuse at me does not help her, it’s vicious and intimidating and reflects badly on you, not me. please calm down.

  187. 187
    John Morales

    yorsubs:

    no, I didn’t say that at all. I said that people should take personal responsibility for their actions, and if they put themselves in a position that they personally feel is dangerous for them (so, posting lots of clues to their location, after saying that their location needs to be protected) then that person (I would say this about myself also) needs to take personal responsibility for their actions.

    But the actions taken by this Justicar specimen are not the actions taken by Ophelia, are they?

    NO ONE has mentioned this.

    Um, isn’t it bleedingly obvious?

    Ophelia should take responsibility for her actions, the Justicar specimen for his.

    (Who do you imagine disputed this?)

    I see lots of stuff about MRA or whatever above, but no one has pointed out that a person must take personal responsibility for their own safety. So, this person puts up public blogs, and then people comment on them. ok, fair enough.

    And this is a response to that video “comment”; is that not fair enough for you?

    Some people post views in agreement with her, and some people post views disagreeing with her, and in this case ridiculing her position.

    Um, not so much attempting to ridicule her position, more the threatening:
    Congratulations, you fucking nitwit. If it is the case, that there is a legitimate concern for your safety from the internet, good job posting to more than 9,000 people on the internet exactly how to find out where you commonly are.

    His position is reasonable. He is not intimidating her.

    It is true that intending to intimidate someone doesn’t entail that the actually intimidated them, but that doesn’t change the intent.

    He is ‘ridiculing’ her position (basically calling her ‘attention-seeking’).

    No, he’s not.

    Any person that puts themselves up on the internet has to accept that. I do. I can take it. I don’t need people to defend me if I *am* ridiculed (will this cue vicious backlash ridicule on me? if it DID, that would indeed prove my point).

    I call your bullshit as bullshit.

    I cannot see that what he did was unfair or unreasonable in terms of how the internet operates. Totally non-intimidating, simply ridiculing her.

    You are a bullshitting bullshitter.

    (That ain’t ridicule, that’s fact)

    His position is fair. he did not put her in danger. he did not intimidate her. He simply ‘ridiculed’ her OWN actions. Did he ACTUALLY put her in danger? serious question?

    If you had a skerrick of honesty, you’d quote someone (anyone) claiming that he put her in danger.

    (Care to try to pretend that you do?)

  188. 188
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    do you realise how incredibly intimidating what you just said there is ?

    Yes. But who gives a shit about your unevidenced OPINION. Show us evidence to back it up. That is why the MRA contingent is ignored around here. All mouth, no support.

  189. 189
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I do understand stalking.

    Citation needed. Your words say otherwise.

  190. 190
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    but if this woman is in REAL danger, then instead of getting aggressive at my honesty,

    What honesty. Your OPINION isn’t honesty. It is blather. If you are honest, cite how stalking and intimidation is done, and how this doesn’t fit. Your OPINION isn’t worth reading.

  191. 191
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Some people are incredibly rude (death threats etc)…

    Miss Manners has written about this again and again, but people just don’t seem to understand. Threatening a person with death is simply gauche. One just does not do such things in polite society.

    I said that people should take personal responsibility for their actions, and if they put themselves in a position that they personally feel is dangerous for them (so, posting lots of clues to their location, after saying that their location needs to be protected) then that person (I would say this about myself also) needs to take personal responsibility for their actions.

    Jen McCreight is in danger because she speaks plainly about sexism, not because her whereabouts may be gleaned from the internet. Maybe she shouldn’t do that either out of a sense of personal responsibility, huh? Numbskull*.
     

    *I’m not sorry if that comes across as aggressive and incredibly rude.

  192. 192
    yorsubs

    Um, isn’t it bleedingly obvious?

    No, because everyone here, says that it completely unacceptable for this guy to dare to do ridicule her, while at the same time, he is being denigrated utterly, and in your view, that IS fair enough ? that’s a logical fallacy my friend. I’ve noticed a few thousand very angry comments from Nerd Redhead on this forum, so I’ll mention that in her a few times, since she suggests above that she is a highly respected and knowledgable person. I’ll disregard what she says from now on, as I work with violent alcoholics, and she seems to be a similar type of abusive personality, as she attacked me from nothing. When people like that go through some rehabilitation, it can help, but those people need to WANT to be helped, and I doubt that’s the case with her.

    And this is a response to that video “comment”; is that not fair enough for you?

    yes, his video comment response is fair enough. he was ridiculing her. Just as the 200 comments above ridicule HIM (and worse, abusive, denigrating, fairly personal etc). again, you are making a logical fallacy. if the comments here ridiculing him are “FAIR”, then his comments ridiculing her are also “FAIR”. that is only fair.

    Um, not so much attempting to ridicule her position, more the threatening: Congratulations, you fucking nitwit. If it is the case, that there is a legitimate concern for your safety from the internet, good job posting to more than 9,000 people on the internet exactly how to find out where you commonly are.

    exactly. very good point. so, Nerd Redhead just told me to “shut the fuck up”. intimidating, aggressive, whatever you want to call it. nothing in that guys comment that you quoted is actually “threatening” (a threat would involve, um, a threat, there is no threat there). so he called her a “fucking nitwit”, how is that different from the aggressive nature of Nerd Redhead ?

    It is true that intending to intimidate someone doesn’t entail that the actually intimidated them, but that doesn’t change the intent.

    The intent was no less intimidating than Nerd Redhead’s comments to me. Now do you start abusing her and calling her a “specimen” for her abuse of me ? No, you don’t, and that’s the point. A bit less mob anger, and a bit more rational reasoned and polite debate would be better. He is entitled to call her a “fucking nitwit” just as Nerd Readhead is entitled to abuse every single person that says anything to her. But both of them look like nitwits at the end of the day when they do that. That guy integralmath shouldn’t have called her a nitwit, but a bit of perspective on the potty-mouthed Nerd Redhead please, who is orders of magnitude more aggressive and insulting.

    He is ‘ridiculing’ her position (basically calling her ‘attention-seeking’)

    No, he’s not.

    fair enough. I personally think he is. Where I come from, this is called “banter”. People say things like fuck you and shut the fuck up, and it’s what it is. If it is ok for Nerd Redhead to send abusive, angry comments to anyone here, then it is DEFINITELY ok for him to ridicule her and suggest that she is attention-seeking. Hopefully you can see that. Look at some of Nerd Redhead’s abusive comments above. Are they “reasonable” or “acceptable” ?

    Any person that puts themselves up on the internet has to accept that. I do. I can take it. I don’t need people to defend me if I *am* ridiculed (will this cue vicious backlash ridicule on me? if it DID, that would indeed prove my point).

    I call your bullshit as bullshit.

    You are a bullshitting bullshitter.

    And I respect your right to call what I say bullshit (CALLING it that doesn’t MAKE it that though ;)). So, basically, this guy Integralmath has called Jen’s bullshit as bullshit. And if you think it’s ok for you to call my bullshit as bullshit, then maybe you have to consider that it’s ok for him to call Jen’s bullshit as bullshit !!! ;) fair right ? fair is as fair is.

    If you had a skerrick of honesty, you’d quote someone (anyone) claiming that he put her in danger (Care to try to pretend that you do?)

    I have a skerrick, and I have 100 more skerricks ! :) but I don’t need to quote someone claiming that he put her in danger as that’s the whole point of this blog post right ! And all the above say she is in danger. My question stands: is she REALLY in danger ? I see people mocking, ridiculing others all the time. I see horrible people that post abusive nonsense on the internet all the time (e.g. Nerd Redhead), but I DON’T go to the police because Nerd Redhead is aggressive. That’s too much. I you feel that Jen should go to the police, then I think that action should be taken. There is a saying: “put up, or shut up”. If people honestly think that Jen is in danger, HONESTLY, then they should put up or stop saying it. Actual prosecutations should be taken against persons that have abused her online. This would easy to achieve, IF people are not bullshitting ?

  193. 193
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    ZOMG, yousubs. You are adorable. Is today your first day on the internet? The first day can be hard but just keep being yourself–I’m sure you’ll make lots of friends.

  194. 194
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    do you realise how incredibly intimidating what you just said there is ? is that an ‘ok’ way to talk to someone ?

    That depends entirely on how the person being addressed is acting.

  195. 195
    yorsubs

    Jen McCreight is in danger because she speaks plainly about sexism, not because her whereabouts may be gleaned from the internet. Maybe she shouldn’t do that either out of a sense of personal responsibility, huh? Numbskull*. *I’m not sorry if that comes across as aggressive and incredibly rude.

    no, she should DEFINITELY speak freely about sexism (in my opinion). As should all people. I didn’t say or suggest that, so you must have just put those words into my mouth ? ;)

    Sure, you can call me a “Numbskull” if you want, and that’s fine. So, by the same standard, I guess that you absolutely defend Integralmath’s right to call Jen McCreight a “fucking nitwit”??? Anyway, don’t worry, I accept your not apology, and I’m not insulted by you calling me that, water off a ducks back, and anyway, at least you have some humour when you put words in other people’s mouths then insult them based upon those words you put in their mouth :-D, *unlike* say, Nerd Redhead who comes across like the kind of violent drunk that people don’t want to be in the same room as ! :-s

  196. 196
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    All hail Borkquote, acolyte of Typos!

    The final line is mine. The first two sentences are quoted from yorsubs.

  197. 197
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Nerd Redhead who comes across like the kind of violent drunk that people don’t want to be in the same room as ! :-s

    Still no evidence, just inane and fuckwitted OPINION nobody gives a shit about.
    You want a discussion, lose the OPINION, and show the evidence.

  198. 198
    ChasCPeterson

    it is, isn’t it?
    Your first day?

    pace yourself.

  199. 199
    yorsubs

    ZOMG, yousubs. You are adorable. Is today your first day on the internet? The first day can be hard but just keep being yourself–I’m sure you’ll make lots of friends.

    oh, and here I thought that Americans didn’t do sarcasm or irony !! well done !! I am delighted to find out that stereotype is unfair. yes, today is my first day on the internet !, so thankyou very much for offering me your friendship, but unfortunately I have to decline as you could be a dangerous internet stalker, and we cannot trust anyone ever, or ever allow people like Integralmath to make fun of others ever (only you and me, the intenet ‘Elites’ are ever allowed to ridicule anyone right), so I have to keep you at an arms length until I know if you are going to do me harm (you understand I’m sure). However, that’s not to say that in 40-50 years, I may come to trust you, so just hang in there, try not to be too stalkerish, and we may even become “internet friends” one day ! ;)

  200. 200
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Oh, and here’s an example of evidence yorsub: definition of Concern troll.

  201. 201
    Amphiox

    yorsubs, it is rather telling of the type of person you are that you automatically assumed that Nerd is female.

  202. 202
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    yorsubs,

    What a bunch of victim blaming bullshit. She tweeted a picture and her harassers immediately decided to see if they could figure out her location from it. If Justicar gave a shit about the threat to her at all he would have notified her quietly so she could delete the photo without having a drama. Instead, he decided to use it against her and publish the information so people can go find her tweet and find out where she is. What you want her stay off the internet completely? That’s exactly what they want for sure. Hence, all of this.

    Here’s a helpful post for you.

    Actual prosecutations should be taken against persons that have abused her online. This would easy to achieve, IF people are not bullshitting ?

    You know nothing about what you’re speaking of. It’s not that easy. Hell, it’s not easy to prosecute and protect yourself from stalkers and harassers in real life. Online has all of that, plus it’s shrug off as not a problem, and there’s problems with jurisdictions, and police not giving it priority.

    “Oh, you’re not a hiding hermit in your home? Then you’re not really scared!”
    “Oh, well they aren’t in jail so clearly they haven’t done anything wrong!”

    Same shit script told to any woman facing abuse, threats and harassment.

  203. 203
    yorsubs

    it is, isn’t it? Your first day? pace yourself.

    thanks :) on my first day, I’ve amused myself immensely. I’ve met “violent internet drunk lunatic person” (wow, Nerd Redhead is quite the raging ‘Hulk’ personality huh, “grrr!”). great fun. I look forward to more frothing-at-the-mouth rage tomorrow (if I’m not wrong, the internet seems to consist solely of people being offended by everything. quite interesting that).

  204. 204
    John Morales

    yorsubs:

    No, because everyone here, says that it completely unacceptable for this guy to dare to do ridicule her, while at the same time, he is being denigrated utterly, and in your view, that IS fair enough ?

    Well, you convince me that the obvious is not obvious to you.

    (I look forward to your explanation of why it is not the case that Ophelia should take responsibility for her actions, the Justicar specimen for his)

    that’s a logical fallacy my friend.

    No, it isn’t.

    (It’s a proposition)

    yes, his video comment response is fair enough.

    You are responding to “And this is a response to that video “comment”; is that not fair enough for you?”, the which means I referred to a response to his video comment response and not to the comment itself, the which entails you are obtuse.

    The intent was no less intimidating than Nerd Redhead’s comments to me.

    What, he made a video of you and highlighted the information that purportedly could direct your on-line haters onto you?

    Now do you start abusing her and calling her a “specimen” for her abuse of me ?

    Who is this ‘her’ to whom you refer? ;)

    That guy integralmath shouldn’t have called her a nitwit, but a bit of perspective on the potty-mouthed Nerd Redhead please, who is orders of magnitude more aggressive and insulting.

    You’ve forgotten you are responding to my noting that intent doesn’t entail effect, haven’t you?

    fair enough. I personally think he is.

    Your opinion is worth what it’s worth.

    So, basically, this guy Integralmath has called Jen’s bullshit as bullshit.

    “Congratulations, you fucking nitwit. If it is the case, that there is a legitimate concern for your safety from the internet, good job posting to more than 9,000 people on the internet exactly how to find out where you commonly are.”

    That’s not calling out bullshit, that’s publicising an apparent lack of caution.

    fair is as fair is.

    True; and scummy malevolence is as scummy malevolence is, as in this occasion.

    I have a skerrick, and I have 100 more skerricks ! :)

    Bullshitting bullshitter bullshits.

    My question stands: is she REALLY in danger ?My question stands: is she REALLY in danger ?

    Yes; she’s really (and has documented this thoroughly) in danger of being harassed by hateful hating online cowards.

    I you feel that Jen should go to the police, then I think that action should be taken.

    I feel you should put your head into a toilet-bowl right after someone has taken a big dump, and keep it in there.

    Actual prosecutations should be taken against persons that have abused her online.

    Nothing like a good prosecutation. :)

  205. 205
    John Morales

    yorsubs:

    [1] I look forward to more frothing-at-the-mouth rage tomorrow [2] (if I’m not wrong, the internet seems to consist solely of people being offended by everything. quite interesting that).

    1. By tomorrow, you’ll likely have had your trolling directed to Thunderdome.

    2. So you claim you’re offended by everything, eh?

    (So, is someone coercing you into being on the internet?)

  206. 206
    blf

    if I’m not wrong, the internet seems to consist solely of people being offended by everything

    I doubt you have any clew just how wrong you are.

  207. 207
    yorsubs

    What you want her stay off the internet completely? That’s exactly what they want for sure. Hence, all of this.

    nope, I addressed that above. you are just putting words in my mouth. To be clear: I believe the opposite of what you just said there.

    You know nothing about what you’re speaking of. It’s not that easy.

    actually I know a lot about it, and actually in a lot of cases it’s not too difficult. registered people on various sites, if their posts constitute a threat could be followed to the site to get their email addresses, which in most cases are actual email addresses that can be traced to a person (as opposed to throwaway email accounts deliberately to disguise the person). it might take 50-100 times to get someone, but once you do get that, it sends an ACTUAL message instead of complaining on a forum of peers.

    It’s difficult, but you know, when people put themselves out there, they get abuse. you have to take the good with the bad, and build a thick skin. Football players (in the UK) have abuse shouted at them constantly, they have to get on with things. Politicians get death threats and rape threats (in FAR FAR greater numbers than Jen McCreight ever has) and that is AWFUL, but those people, Jen included, have some practical choices:
    - walk away, never go on the internet (what you suggested, but that I disagree with you on).
    - stay on the internet, but become a hermit (again, something that you suggested, but that I disagree 100% on)
    - ignore it, get on with living, posting things, promoting ideas if you feel they are worth it.
    - for threats that seem serious / disturbing, approach the police or FBI to make serious complaints. even if they don’t take it seriously, make the effort if there is a REAL danger.

    those 4 things are about all that *anyone* (me, you, Jen, politicians) can do basically. fact of life, it’s the way it is.

    Hell, it’s not easy to prosecute and protect yourself from stalkers and harassers in real life. Online has all of that, plus it’s shrug off as not a problem, and there’s problems with jurisdictions, and police not giving it priority.

    agree completely. see above on the choices. but ranting about how bad it is among a community of peers that agree it’s bad, changes nothing. that’s impotent. and railing insults against that guy Integralmath (and all this calling him a “thing” or “specimen”, I mean come on, is that not a bit immature ?).
    we all have to grow a thick skin. the WHOLE WORLD has to grow a thick skin from Nerd Redhead.
    but we have to do it, and get on with it. same at school as a kid, kids say bad stuff to each other, you have to learn to deal with it. same as an adult.
    yes, we shouldn’t have to, but we don’t live in some perfect world, so ALL of us have to deal with that.

    what are you achieving with your activism here. be more coherent (and don’t put words in peoples mouths). just an idea. “be the fucking change you want to see in the fucking world”. I dunno what “MRA fucker” said that, but he should probably keep his fucking opinions to his fucking self ! :-p

    Is Thunderdome how you get people banned on this forum ? yay, ban anyone that does not do what you dictate !! :-p (damn, that sounds a bit like religion, no ?). No, I’m not offended by much (are you putting words in my mouth again ? tut tut ! ;)), I think this is a good guideline about ‘respect’ and ‘offence’: http://unfebuckinglievable.wordpress.com/tag/stephen-fry/ . the internet is mostly about people being offended, and VERY SELDOM about people looking for practical solutions.

    to re-iterate, I think it’s terrible the things that people have said about Jen McCreight. I think positive action should be taken to prosecute such people, I would even get involved in that, as I utterly oppose anyone being abused in that way. so, what do you suggest, how best should we go about actually getting meaningful prosecutions against people that have abused Jen McCreight ?

  208. 208
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Is Thunderdome how you get people banned on this forum ?

    No, its a no-holds-barred open forum for our chew toys.

    . I think positive action should be taken to prosecute such people, I

    Cite the statutes that they would be prosecuted under. Opinion is meaningless without evidence, or in this case, real statutes with teeth, to back it up.

  209. 209
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Oh, and I forgot to add, show how effective such statutes are in preventing further abuse.

  210. 210
    yorsubs

    Opinion is meaningless without evidence

    this is literally all that Nerd Redhead ever says (and then immediately states opinions, and never cites evidence for anything ;))
    yes, there is TONS of evidence of people that have been traced on the internet for abusive behaviour. Google is your friend my friend ;) you’re welcome.

    Actual prosecutations should be taken against persons that have abused her online.

    Nothing like a good prosecutation. :)
    kewl, we pick up on spelling errors ;) well, that is mature.

    I doubt you have any *clew* just how wrong you are.

    oh dear, a typo from someone else ! quick, jump on them ! ;) is that “clue”, or “claw”, what the hell is that word. “clew” !?!? shocking ! :-o

    Yes; she’s really (and has documented this thoroughly) in danger of being harassed by hateful hating online cowards.

    ok, so she is in danger of being harassed.

    I feel you should put your head into a toilet-bowl right after someone has taken a big dump, and keep it in there.

    seriously, if someone said to Jen “I feel you should put your head into a toilet-bowl right after someone has taken a big dump, and keep it in there.” in about 2 nanoseconds how many people would say that was harassment ? seriously. 100% agreement ? would that be harrassment to say that to Jen ? right, so it’s harassment if said to Jen, but NOT harassment if said to me. cool. got it. no double standards there folks ;)

    again, is ranting abuse here doing anything to fix this kind of problem ? why not take positive action about this. you are not raising awareness by hiding on a forum of peers and telling people to squish their head into a fresh poop in a toilet bowl just cos they challenge you. I mean, come on, that’s like school playground stuff right, so why do you do things to help Jen instead of all this school playground stuff ?

  211. 211
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    how best should we go about actually getting meaningful prosecutions against people that have abused Jen McCreight ?

    It’s not just the threats but the harassment as well. Clearly, you didn’t read the post I linked to. It’s about being vocal against such tactics showing we won’t be silenced and it’s about supporting the victims. You really think it’s possible to prosecute the Slymepit assholes who pull this shit? Come back to reality.

    Also, victims know their options better than you do and lecturing about what you think is best is actually not helpful. Everybody does that and it’s beyond frustrating because it’s always “Go to the police! Get help! Do something!” but you haven’t taken the time to look at it from the victim’s perspective, haven’t considered what they’ve done or tried to do already. Just jump in an assume the victim is helpless and so stupid they didn’t take the obvious options.

  212. 212
    yorsubs

    I dunno, all that Slymepit stuff seems a bit counter-productive no ? I mean, how is characterising people by “Slymepit” useful or mature ? it sounds like the cave where some bad monster in a video game lives. people mostly act decently (up to a point). there are exactly the same number of asshole men as asshole women. some men treat women badly. some women treat men badly. and humans are quite expert at being assholes (cue Nerd Redhead calling me an asshole here, yay, love it ;)). men have effectively controlled women for 10′s of thousands of years, so I can understand anger over this stuff, but terms like slyempit undermines the whole discussion.

    Jen McCreight is as much of a victim as a football player that gets massive abuse shouted at him every day. they ARE both being victimised, but they also both have to take it on the chin. it’s NOT good, but she seems to be strong enough to support herself, and so, in that she’s doing great I hope. we can only do what is within the realm of practicality. being vocal on a forum of peers won’t do much (or anything). ranting at anyone that criticises or ridicules Jen McCreight also doesn’t seem too productive (I honestly don’t see the problem with that guys video. man, if I compare that to the harsh jokes that friends, or harassment in the office, you know, people shouting down your views on a project or something. that guys videos are TAME. he’s ridiculing her, nothing more, some of his points are fair, some go a bit too far, but it’s generally a fair video if watched to the end). We all have to put up with this crap in life. ok, so where to be vocal. Well, have you tried making actual complaints to the police and to the FBI ? documenting evidence, and doing that ? there was that guy on facebook that was detained for 30 days for doing things that really fall under free spech
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5dA1N3S9Es&list=PL01ADC053B97662EA
    so, it was terrible what happened to this guy, but it shows you how easy it is to get someone given warnings of arrested and detained in the USA. very easy indeed !

    great to be vocal, but where you are vocal is most important. be vocal at the police station and phone up the FBI. seriously, phone up the FBI, and (without using the words Slymepit or MRA), talk seriously to those organisations about practical steps to deal with people that tell Jen to stick her head into a toilet pan that someone has just pooped in (and/or, other harassment). there’s a lot of TALK about doing things, about so-called activism, and about BEING VOCAL, but is it just that, just talk ??

  213. 213
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    or ever allow people like Integralmath to make fun of others ever (only you and me, the intenet ‘Elites’ are ever allowed to ridicule anyone right)

    Yorsubs, you idiot, revealing personal information like addresses, or making it easier for others to pinpoint such information, does not fall under the category of “making fun of” people. It is a huge invasion of privacy and may well expose the target to real harm. Don’t be a douche.

  214. 214
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    so I can understand anger over this stuff, but terms like slyempit undermines the whole discussion.

    Yes, they can harrass, stalk, threaten but god forbid we give them a short hand nickname for the place those assholes call home.

    Jen McCreight is as much of a victim as a football player that gets massive abuse shouted at him every day. they ARE both being victimised, but they also both have to take it on the chin.

    Not. even. close. One is a sports culture trash talking, the other is a systematic silencing of women in general and this one in particular.

    ranting at anyone that criticises or ridicules

    Yeah, that’s totally what’s going on here. It’s not like we have an argument or anything. We just like to silence other people.

    *eyeroll*

    Jen McCreight also doesn’t seem too productive (I honestly don’t see the problem with that guys video. man, if I compare

    Yeah, that’s fucking helpful. Let’s compare threats and harassment to see who’s really oppressed!

    that to the harsh jokes that friends, or harassment in the office, you know, people shouting down your views on a project or something. that guys videos are TAME. he’s ridiculing her, nothing more, some of his points are fair, some go a bit too far, but it’s generally a fair video if watched to the end).

    Clearly, you don’t know the history and way to be dissmissive!

    “It’s just in your head! It’s just a joke! It’s just words!”

  215. 215
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @Yorsubs

    I dunno, all that Slymepit stuff seems a bit counter-productive no ? I mean, how is characterising people by “Slymepit” useful or mature ? it sounds like the cave where some bad monster in a video game lives.

    … You’re aware the slymepit is an actual place, yes? It’s the internet haven for MRAtheists who don’t like FtB.

  216. 216
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I dunno, all that Slymepit stuff seems a bit counter-productive no ? I mean, how is characterising people by “Slymepit” useful or mature ?

    That is a self-reference. Why are you so immature as to not be able to do simple google searches to find out facts??? Arrogance and ignorance it appears.

  217. 217
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Yorsubs, you are now tone trolling, complaining about how we talk about people and things. Two things to keep in mind. Your name isn’t on the masthead, ergo you have no say in how PZ runs things. Also, this is a rude blog:

    This is a rude blog. We like to argue — heck, we like a loud angry brawl. Don’t waste time whining at anyone that they’re not nice, because this gang will take pride in that and rhetorically hand you a rotting porcupine and tell you to stuff it up your nether orifice. If you intrude here and violate any of the previous three mores, people won’t like you, and they won’t hold back—they’ll tell you so, probably in colorful terms.

    You don’t like it, YOU go away. Tone trolls are the lowest of the low. So stop complaining how we say stuff.

  218. 218
    yorsubs

    you idiot, revealing personal information like addresses, or making it easier for others to pinpoint such information, does not fall under the category of “making fun of” people.

    sure, I agree, he went too far there. BUT, I’ll say this (I’ll be flamed to hell AND banned, like Nazi Germany 1935, for saying this, but it’s true, and we all know it: the truth hurts sometimes). It’s definitely true that 99.99% of death threats on the internet are impotent (probably more like 99.999999% if we’re being honest). if we are serious people, we recognise this FACT. Jen McCrieght is almost certainly in no danger whatsoever. The kind of people that put death and rape threats to Jen McCreight are almost certainly acne-ridden nerds with chips on their shoulders. Some people might be more sinister, but then that applies to every time we go out of the house. The person next to us on the bus could be a rapist or child molestor. We have to be PRACTICAL. pick your fights well. and misplaced indignation and offence is worthless. That guy Integralmath is actually pretty smart and well considered in most of his videos, though what he did there was daft (and if you think criminal, definitely go to the police or FBI and explore that) as he was a ‘douche’ there (I’ve never worked out what a douche is, American’s like that word a lot I’ve noticed). But, Jen McCrieght is in about the same amount of REAL physical danger as you are every day when you leave the house (or not even leaving the house, criminals with gund break into peoples houses all the time!). If Jen does have trauma from stuff online, then I sincerely hope that she can get the support to help her get over the pricks that abuse her online in that way, and absolutely she should never let those nerdy acne-kings and their impotent death and rape threats stop her from sensibly and maturely getting her message across. ranting about people making death threats on the internet will change NOTHING. being vocal about it will change NOTHING. in fact, ranting about this will probably make those threats increase in number. instead, take practical steps. definitely phone up the FBI, why not, what’s to lose, get serious legal advice I’d say. And again, look at Brandon Routh and how easy it is to get someone detained, arrested and imprisoned in America. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5dA1N3S9Es&list=PL01ADC053B97662EA

  219. 219
    Nick Gotts

    yorsubs,

    I mean, how is characterising people by “Slymepit” useful or mature ?

    That’s what the main hangout of Jen’s harassers is called by those who post there, as I’m sure you know very well.

    Jen McCreight is as much of a victim as a football player that gets massive abuse shouted at him every day. they ARE both being victimised, but they also both have to take it on the chin.

    As you are doubtless aware, neither FIFA nor the UK football authorities agree with you, and have taken steps to punish clubs that do not themselves crack down on racist abuse from the terraces. That racist abuse is a direct parallel to the sexist abuse Jen and other women blogging at FtB and Skepchick have been subjected to by your MRA friends at the Slymepit.

    My question stands: is she REALLY in danger ?My question stands: is she REALLY in danger ?

    Even if she is not, how the fuck is she supposed to know it, when she’s been subjected to a year of abuse and harassment by Justicar and his MRA buddies, and now he has deliberately called attention to information that might enable her harassers to find her address? You’re just another victim-blaming misogynist lying scumbag, and you’re not fooling anyone with your pretense of being an impartial commenter.

  220. 220
    yorsubs

    Yorsubs, you are now tone trolling, complaining about how we talk about people and things.

    You don’t like it, YOU go away. Tone trolls are the lowest of the low. So stop complaining how we say stuff.

    so just to get things straight, you are complaining about how I talk ? but isn’t that tone trolling ?
    and, if you don’t like what I say, decent, sensible discussion, why don’t YOU go away ? is your name on the masthead ? or do you see yourself as SUPERIOR ?
    I notice that you are less abusive now, and in that, I applaud you. I’m glad you’ve stopped that, well done.

    if you are honest, you would say that everything I’ve said is pretty reasonable. but you are complaining about how I talk which, by your own definition, is tone trolling on your part …

  221. 221
    Nick Gotts

    so just to get things straight, you are complaining about how I talk ? – yorsubs

    No, you numpty, the complaints are about the content of what you write, not the tone.

  222. 222
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    so just to get things straight, you are complaining about how I talk ?

    No, I’m telling you not to complain about how people say things here. Not your call, not your place.

    if you are honest, you would say that everything I’ve said is pretty reasonable.

    Only from the perspective of a naïve person with no idea of the history of the situation. In others word, and ignorant and arrogant bore who thinks they can pontificate on that which they are ignorant of, and expect to be taken serious. So evidence, That is how you will be taken seriously. Your OPINION isn’t evidence, and never will be.

  223. 223
    Jadehawk

    I mean, how is characterising people by “Slymepit” useful or mature ?

    idiot. the Slymepit is an actual place, actually named that.

  224. 224
    A. Noyd

    yorsubs (#212)

    I dunno, all that Slymepit stuff seems a bit counter-productive no ? I mean, how is characterising people by “Slymepit” useful or mature ?

    I think I bruised my soft palate snort-laughing at this bit of extreme cluelessness.

  225. 225
    Jadehawk

    And again, look at Brandon Routh and how easy it is to get someone detained, arrested and imprisoned in America.

    and then look at Markuze and learn how difficult it is to get someone who’s a chronic stalker and has threatened to “meet” people in meatspace to get locked away for any longer than a couple days.

    Seriously, if it were easy to get stalkers locked up, women would get murdered a hole lotta less. But no one takes women’s claims of being threatened seriously, kinda the way you just dismissed internet threats, too.

  226. 226
    ChasCPeterson

    ta-roooo-hooooollll

  227. 227
    yorsubs

    That’s what the main hangout of Jen’s harassers is called by those who post there, as I’m sure you know very well.

    I don’t know that, and your implication there is, well, childish.

    As you are doubtless aware, neither FIFA nor the UK football authorities agree with you, and have taken steps to punish clubs that do not themselves crack down on racist abuse from the terraces. That racist abuse is a direct parallel to the sexist abuse Jen and other women blogging at FtB and Skepchick have been subjected to by your MRA friends at the Slymepit.

    yep, I am aware of that. That racist abuse is one thing, but that’s not all of the abuse. There’s much more. And yes, I agree with you completely, abuse like that should not be allowed, but what do you suggest footballers do, become hermits and not play any more (what I’m doing here is paraphrasing someone above: of course you don’t think footballers should become hermits. you think they should get on with things right ? and I’m suggesting exactly the same).
    when you say “your MRA friends”, again, you make yourself look like a child. (“no, you’re an MRA poo !” “no, you are !”, “no, YOU are !” etc. damn childish stuff.).
    no, I have not “MRA” friends.

    Even if she is not, how the fuck is she supposed to know it, when she’s been subjected to a year of abuse and harassment by Justicar and his MRA buddies, and now he has deliberately called attention to information that might enable her harassers to find her address?
    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule. those people overstep the boundaries sometimes, but then so do you with your abusive comments calling me misogynist etc.

    You’re just another victim-blaming misogynist lying scumbag

    seriously, are you like 12 ? you talk like a 12 year old that’s taken LSD. can you point at something that I’ve said that is misogynist ? um, nope, but you just hurl abuse at me anyway ? FORTUNATELY, I’m thick skinned enough to take such abuse on the chin (if you said this to me in the workplace, I would have you down to HR and fired before you knew what happened. I would NEVER condone a woman or man being denigrated. When you grow up, and get a job, you would be fired for that, and I guess that’s an important lesson for you to learn).

    and you’re not fooling anyone with your pretense of being an impartial commenter.

    I’m impartial with regard to the fact that both sides should be decent. I have opinions sure, I stated them. I think he was in the wrong to post a video showing people where she might live. I think he was not wrong on other things. ie. I am in fact impartial. I think some things you say are sensible, and I agree with you on them, and I think some things you say are batshit crazy, so I told you. are you an angry person ?

  228. 228
    Jadehawk

    yep, I am aware of that. That racist abuse is one thing, but that’s not all of the abuse. There’s much more. And yes, I agree with you completely, abuse like that should not be allowed,

    and yet, you insist that what Jen has been getting is not abuse; guess you think sexist abuse is just joking, and racist abuse is actual abuse. huh.

    yeah, neutral observer my ass. chas is right, you’re a fucking troll.

  229. 229
    yorsubs

    and yet, you insist that what Jen has been getting is not abuse; guess you think sexist abuse is just joking, and racist abuse is actual abuse. huh.

    I said the opposite like 40 times. I think that Jen has been getting abuse, and I think that sexist abuse is NOT a joke. I’ve been MORE than clear on that. what the fuck is all the hardcore lies / misrepresentation for ? oh yeah, right, cos it conforms to your blatant accusation that I’m a troll. nice.

  230. 230
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I think that Jen has been getting abuse, and I think that sexist abuse is NOT a joke.

    But you are still trying to defend the Slymepit attitudes. Try something honest. Go away for a while and get perspective. You lack it.

  231. 231
    Jadehawk

    I said the opposite like 40 times. I think that Jen has been getting abuse, and I think that sexist abuse is NOT a joke. I’ve been MORE than clear on that.

    vs.

    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

  232. 232
    yorsubs

    sorry Nerd, I have to go out now, so I can’t get into this now. If you look at your abuse above (of like everyone in the whole universe), and my comments. you’ll find a lot of honesty and persepective (in fact, that’s all you’ll find).

    I simply don’t like people lying about me. Seriously folks, this is not a good way to talk about things. you just make up shit about people “miogynist scumag”, “fucking troll” etc, what the hell !?

    and again you just did it “but you are trying to defend the Slymepit attitudes”. shucks. lie about someone else huh. is that all you do ? lie about everyone to make you feel good about yourself ? you do yourself a disservice when you lie and misrepresent others. And, you KNOW that everything I’ve said above is honest. you absolutely know it. I’ve not misrepresented you ONCE. not a single time.

    have a great evening. hope you can work out the “being honest about people” thing. it’s really liberating when you crack it!! :)

  233. 233
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    Laughing so hard at Jadehawk‘s post :)

    Yorsubs, you are an idiot. You can’t contradict yourself in the same thread and just hope people won’t notice.

    And with that, it’s home time. *walks away still chuckling*

  234. 234
    yorsubs

    Jadehawk, you are taking that so utterly out of context it’s loopy. twist someone else’s words huh ;)
    that person Integralmath NEVER ONCE did anything that was SEXIST ABUSE towards Jen McCreight (not in that video, but please point me to where he did SEXIST ABUSE towards her, cos that was your accusation before you decided to just lie about me. do you do “honesty” ever ? at all ? no ?

    honesty: a word that you have yet to comprehend in your ‘personal growth’

  235. 235
    yorsubs

    Laughing so hard at Jadehawk‘s post :)
    me too, her post is fucking hilarious isn’t it ?? :) I said that I find sexist abuse terrible, and that guy NEVER in any way did anything that was sexist abuse towards Jen McCreight right (he may have in some other video, though I’ve yet to see that).
    *walks away laughing at with thumper, both of us chuckling at Jadehawk* :)

  236. 236
    Jadehawk

    Jadehawk, you are taking that so utterly out of context it’s loopy. twist someone else’s words huh ;)

    nice try honeycakes, but no, in fact I’m not taking it out of context; when pointed out that Jen has been subject to sexist abuse from Justicar and other MRA’s, your response was, literally “it’s not abuse, it’s ridicule”.

    And given that you’re even calling what you’ve experienced here “abuse”, it’s pretty fucking clear that you have a massive double-standard in regard to what does or doesn’t count as abuse.

  237. 237
    Jadehawk

    that guy NEVER in any way did anything that was sexist abuse towards Jen McCreight right

    vs.

    I said the opposite like 40 times. I think that Jen has been getting abuse, and I think that sexist abuse is NOT a joke. I’ve been MORE than clear on that.

    wanna try for one more reversal, honeybunch?

  238. 238
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    yorsubs: Because you apparently just landed on earth, you may have missed that The Justicar has a long history of misogyny directed at Jen McCreight. Start here to bring yourself up to speed.
    The “abuse” that you are receiving is a typical response (on Earth) to the kind of clueless holding-forth that you have treated us all to. Don’t get me wrong. It has been a treat. Nonetheless, you can make it stop by being less vocal and more knowledgable.
     
    I’m only telling you this because you remind me of ALF, and as a child, I loved that furry little guy.

  239. 239
    Deen

    I don’t know that

    Well, you do now. Would you like to apologize for your unfair accusation of counterproductive behavior?

  240. 240
    Jadehawk

    that person Integralmath NEVER ONCE did anything that was SEXIST ABUSE towards Jen McCreight

    vs.

    I said the opposite like 40 times. I think that Jen has been getting abuse, and I think that sexist abuse is NOT a joke.

  241. 241
    Jadehawk

    honesty: a word that you have yet to comprehend in your ‘personal growth’

    you remind me of Newt Gingrich. he also thought quoting his own words back at him constituted dishonesty.

  242. 242
    yorsubs

    nice try, but no, I said it clearly: show me the SEXIST ABUSE. if you can find any, simply quote it ? I did not contradict myself. I’ve only described ONE SINGLE THING as ridicule and that is that single video from that Intergralmath person. that’s all, and it’s a damn shame that you can’t find a SINGLE QUOTE to say otherwise (foiled again, huh Jadehawk !).
    I told you, I’m not bothered about people saying that I should put my head down a toilet that’s just been pooed in. I can take it. if it was said to Jen you’d call that abuse, but to me, it’s just silly children ranting.
    so, again, nice try, but show me a SINGLE QUOTE that fits your thesis. oops, can’t … um… oops. isn’t it horrible when your lies and misrepresentation are exposed as, uh, utter rubbish ?) ;)

  243. 243
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    *psssst* yorsubs:
    The “abuse*” you are receiving is the typical earthing response to the sort of clueless holding-forth in which you have been engaged. Having been here on earth for longer than you, most of the readership of this blog realizes that The Justicar has a long history of misogyny directed at McCreight. Start reading here for a taste.
     
    Don’t misunderstand me. This has been a treat, but you kind of remind me of the TV alien ALF. As a child, I really liked that fuzzy little guy. This is why I’m telling you that you and you alone must take personal responsibility. You can make the “abuse” stop simply by being less vocal and more knowledgable.
     
    *Some people find the clue by four a tool of abuse. I’m not going to split hairs.

  244. 244
    Deen

    I always love it when someone complains that people are so uncivil to them by calling them “silly children”.

  245. 245
    yorsubs

    “you remind me of Newt Gingrich. he also thought quoting his own words back at him constituted dishonesty.”

    actually, to the contrary, I asked you over and over to quote what I said back at me.
    you’ve accused me of suggesting that sexist abuse was not abuse.
    In fact, I never said that. what I said was Integralmath was ridiculing Jen, and not once in his video does he do anything that is “sexist abuse”. this is categorically absolutely undeniable.
    so you say that I deny sexist abuse and you say that I SAID it. but you CANNOT show that, so it’s what’s called “misrepresenation and lies”, so you try to talk AROUND it to divert from your massive fuck up. great piece of fudge work there, reminds me of Ted Haggard at his scheming worst ;)

  246. 246
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    *psssst* yorsubs:
    The “abuse*” you are receiving is the typical earthing response to the sort of clueless holding-forth in which you have been engaged. Having been here on earth for longer than you, most of the readership of this blog realizes that The Justicar has a long history of misogyny directed at McCreight. Google “The Justicar” and “McCreight” for a clue**.
     
    Don’t misunderstand me. This has been a treat, but you kind of remind me of the TV alien ALF. As a child, I really liked that fuzzy little guy. This is why I’m telling you that you and you alone must take personal responsibility. You can make the “abuse” stop simply by being less vocal and more knowledgable.
     
    *Some people find the clue by four a tool of abuse. I’m not going to split hairs.
    **I would have provided a link, but apparently the Squidly OL does not allow it.

  247. 247
    Jadehawk

    I’ve only described ONE SINGLE THING as ridicule

    vs.

    Even if she is not, how the fuck is she supposed to know it, when she’s been subjected to a year of abuse and harassment by Justicar and his MRA buddies, and now he has deliberately called attention to information that might enable her harassers to find her address?

    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

    “just one thing”, eh?

    keep on tying yourself into these pretty pretzels. it’s amusing.

  248. 248
    Jadehawk

    you’ve accused me of suggesting that sexist abuse was not abuse.
    In fact, I never said that.

    vs.

    Even if she is not, how the fuck is she supposed to know it, when she’s been subjected to a year of abuse and harassment by Justicar and his MRA buddies, and now he has deliberately called attention to information that might enable her harassers to find her address?

    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

  249. 249
    Jadehawk

    so you say that I deny sexist abuse and you say that I SAID it. but you CANNOT show that,

    vs.

    Even if she is not, how the fuck is she supposed to know it, when she’s been subjected to a year of abuse and harassment by Justicar and his MRA buddies, and now he has deliberately called attention to information that might enable her harassers to find her address?

    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

  250. 250
    Jadehawk

    and it’s a damn shame that you can’t find a SINGLE QUOTE to say otherwise

    lol

  251. 251
    Jadehawk

    to sum up: a year of severe harassment and intimidation, to the point of attacking her dad = not abuse, just ridicule(as per the quote I’ve now pulled a bunch of times). But being called an MRA by NoR = abuse:

    Who gives a shit about your OPINION? Show some evidence, or shut the fuck up. Typical MRA, all attitude, no third party evidence.

    do you realise how incredibly intimidating what you just said there is ? is that an ‘ok’ way to talk to someone ?
    [...]
    “Typical MRA” so you have stereotyped and abused me ?

    Trolls R St00pid

  252. 252
    David Marjanović
    In future if you can’t remember who said what about X then you should say so or check before accusing people.

    Who gives a shit what bigot like you thinks period. Don’t ever address me again. What you have to say isn’t worth the electrons you use to post it. Think about that before you befoul this blog again. But then, that requires you to acknowledge your bigotry….You are too stupid for that introspection to happen.

    Nerd…

    I think you need another What The Hell, Hero? moment.

    Yes, StevoR has all manner of disgusting failures in his thinking; he can probably be classified as a Type V antihero. But you still accused him of something he didn’t do. It’s not a good idea to be angry at him because you made a mistake.

    He points out that he never said he lives in a post-racist Australia, and you write “don’t ever address me again”? What kind of asshole are you?

    like a late Motherfucker’s Day bouquet for this clown

    LOL! Day saved! :-D

    the leader of the free world – Sally Stearns

    Dang! When was that election held? I must have missed it.

    During the Cold War, that’s de facto what the POTUS was. Like it or not, vote for it or not.

    Also, please stop putting the names of the people whose work you cite inside the quotes. When I first read this while scrolling through, I honestly read it as meaning that somebody had said Sally Stearns (whoever that was) was the leader of the free world, and you were sarcastically asking who had elected her to that position.

    Cartes Bleues

    Debit cards basically. Can be used to pay in supermarkets.

    If say, someone that was an actor on a soap opera did this (put video-blogs up, then got death threats, then said their location needs to be protected, etc), we would call that person a ‘self-publicising idiot’.

    …So you think people must be punished for being idiots by having attention drawn to their location?

    You’re sick.

    It’s like saying, “oh, if I ever stand near cliffs, I fall off !” and then deliberately putting myself in situations where I am close to cliffs, then I have to take SOME personal responsibility for my own actions.

    Assholes who send rape & death threats aren’t facts of nature. They’re assholes. They are responsible for their actions.

    How hard to understand can that possibly be?

    Some people are incredibly rude (death threats etc)…

    Miss Manners has written about this again and again, but people just don’t seem to understand. Threatening a person with death is simply gauche. One just does not do such things in polite society.

    Thread won!

    Nerd Redhead

    I find it really cute how the entire word of can land in your blind spot.

    Clue: the Nerd is the Redhead’s husband.

    ta-roooo-hooooollll

    :-D :-D :-D

    TROLIS!!! POŽEMYJE!!! (Too bad the original YouTube video seems to be gone.)

    seriously, are you like 12 ?

    You are 12; at least that would explain why you seem to think there are no unhinged assholes in this world, and threats of rape and death are 1) just jokes and 2) the victim’s fault anyway.

  253. 253
    Amphiox

    The assertion that Justicar has never before said anything sexist to or about Jen is a flat falsehood. He has been actively spewing bile and vileness on her direction since Elevatorgate. Anyone can go check the archives to see for themselves if they wish.

  254. 254
    Raging Bee

    For the sake of clarity, I was talking merely about whether a word is offensive or not, not people’s internal emotional reaction to a word.

    For the ten-zillionth time: a word means what the overwhelming majority of people who speak the language understand it to mean. There’s absolutely ZERO separation between those two things. If nearly everyone in the English-speaking world thinks “faggot” is an offensive word, then, BY DEFINITION, it’s an offensive word. End of argument. Quit pretending you can tell us when it’s okay to be offended, you pompous twit.

  255. 255
    boby

    @252

    For the ten-zillionth time: a word means what the overwhelming majority of people who speak the language understand it to mean. There’s absolutely ZERO separation between those two things. If nearly everyone in the English-speaking world thinks “faggot” is an offensive word, then, BY DEFINITION, it’s an offensive word. End of argument. Quit pretending you can tell us when it’s okay to be offended, you pompous twit.

    Words mean whatever is communicated in the particular conversation. Definitions just tell us what most people (i.e., not everyone) mean when they use the word. Definitions change all the time, but the way that is accomplished is by using the word in a different way than most people do. That’s how the word queer was reclaimed (as well as just about every formerly pejorative word). It was generally used pejoratively, but then some people used it non-pejoratively.

    Earlier in this thread I asked if I was insulting myself by calling myself a faggot. Do you really think I’m insulting myself because the dictionary definition says so?

    Quit pretending you can tell us when it’s okay to be offended, you pompous twit.

    I suggest that you read someone more carefully before you accuse someone of being a “pompous twit”.

    I have never stated that someone is wrong for experiencing the emotional they experience. Instead, what I have discussed are the conditions for determining whether saying a word is appropriate. I stated very clearly that the likely emotional reaction of people is one of the factors that determines whether uttering a word is appropriate.

  256. 256
    yorsubs

    I see that you are all professional trolls / liars.

    “Having been here on earth for longer than you”
    I’m probably older than you

    “most of the readership of this blog realizes that The Justicar has a long history of misogyny directed at McCreight.”
    I’ve seen nothing SEXIST or MISOGYNIST. and in the only video that I discussed, there is nothing SEXIST / MISOGYNIST.
    or can you show me ? nope ? thought so …
    that’s the point. you are dishonestly misapplying terms. that was not something I discussed, you just dragged it in there.

    “Google “The Justicar” and “McCreight” for a clue**.”
    you may be right, and I’ll do that, but I only referred to one video. i.e. what I SAID was honest, consistent and valid.

    “Don’t misunderstand me. This has been a treat”
    amusing for me. I didn’t realise how ugly people could be. this is pure trolling from you to me. it’s funny. if I was a skepchick I’m sure I would be crying on the floor. instead, I’m laughing my ass off and I’ve opened a bottle of whisky. but I’m drunk enough on the fumes of watching the trolls burn themselves ;)

    “but you kind of remind me of the TV alien ALF. As a child, I really liked that fuzzy little guy.”
    aw, cool, but now you realise that ALF is an evil MRA Misogynist !!! death to ALF !!! ;-p

    “This is why I’m telling you that you and you alone must take personal responsibility. You can make the “abuse” stop simply by being less vocal and more knowledgable.”
    I don’t think I’ve been abused (as I said about 100 times). I think it’s funny. I take responsibility for my actions. everything I’ve said is consistent, honest, and decent.

    ““just one thing”, eh?”
    look and ye shall see (I looked and your wrong “honeycake”). it’s funny, cos Chrsitians say that god is real with no evidence. same tactic as you are using here ! :-D

    “keep on tying yourself into these pretty pretzels. it’s amusing.”
    as I said, you’ve not shown ANYTHING that is SEXIST ABUSE in that video, and that video was where I said he was RIDICULING her.
    no pretzels required.
    Chrsitians say: God is real just because !
    Jadehawk says: you said things you didn’t say because I say so !
    hilarious. if it wasn’t so sad …

    “and it’s a damn shame that you can’t find a SINGLE QUOTE to say otherwise”
    “lol”
    and you still haven’t.
    you have simply accused me of saying something that I didn’t. …sigh… ;)

    “to sum up: a year of severe harassment and intimidation, to the point of attacking her dad = not abuse, just ridicule(as per the quote I’ve now pulled a bunch of times). But being called an MRA by NoR = abuse:”
    I never talked about that. you did. I don’t know about that stuff, but might look, if you stop trolling, and start talking. (oh, and stop lying, it’s so unbecoming and ugly ;))

    Who gives a shit about your OPINION? Show some evidence, or shut the fuck up. Typical MRA, all attitude, no third party evidence.
    do you realise how incredibly intimidating what you just said there is ? is that an ‘ok’ way to talk to someone ?
    [...]
    “Typical MRA” so you have stereotyped and abused me ?

    “Who gives a shit what bigot like you thinks period. Don’t ever address me again. What you have to say isn’t worth the electrons you use to post it. Think about that before you befoul this blog again. But then, that requires you to acknowledge your bigotry….You are too stupid for that introspection to happen.”

    you smell funny.

    “I think you need another What The Hell, Hero? moment.”
    yay. you are the king of the trolls dude. well done. I’d give you a crown, but you have so many troll crowns already :)

    “…So you think people must be punished for being idiots by having attention drawn to their location?”
    never said that. putting words in peoples mouths is bad, evil, and stupid. well done for being evil and stupid.

    “You’re sick.”
    you’re stupid.

    “Assholes who send rape & death threats aren’t facts of nature. They’re assholes. They are responsible for their actions.”
    yeah, I agree ! in fact, wait a minute, I said they’re assholes ! in fact, I said they should be prosecuted. stop copying me !!! ;)
    you are either dumb and ugly, or ugly and dumb, I can’t quite work out which :)

    “How hard to understand can that possibly be?”
    what, that I said that first ? I guess it’s hard cos you are finding it difficult ? cos I, um, said that ?

    “Miss Manners has written about this again and again”
    and Miss Manners is who ? is she important ? is she SPESHUL ?

    “Threatening a person with death is simply gauche. One just does not do such things in polite society.”
    if you look, I said they should be prosecuted, but, ok, I get it, first and foremost you are dumb and blind.

    “Nerd Redhead”
    “I find it really cute how the entire word of can land in your blind spot.”
    I did it deliberately cos I thought it was funny. hehe, another glass of whisky for meeeeeee :)

    “Clue: the Nerd is the Redhead’s husband.”
    did you mean “clew” ? :)

    “You are 12; at least that would explain why you seem to think there are no unhinged assholes in this world, and threats of rape and death are 1) just jokes and 2) the victim’s fault anyway.”
    good try
    1) I never said they were jokes, I said they should be prosecuted
    2) I never said they were the victim’s fault, complete lie (in fact I said the opposite)
    3) triple that age and you’re close.

    “The assertion that Justicar has never before said anything sexist to or about Jen is a flat falsehood. He has been actively spewing bile and vileness on her direction since Elevatorgate. Anyone can go check the archives to see for themselves if they wish.”
    I never said or asseted that. I said simply that I have never seen him say a SEXIST thing. that was the entirety of what I said.

    “For the sake of clarity, I was talking merely about whether a word is offensive or not, not people’s internal emotional reaction to a word.

    “Quit pretending you can tell us when it’s okay to be offended, you pompous twit.”
    remember, the only rule you need to remember is that I tell you when to be offended. ok, glad I was able to clear up your confusion.

    wow. someone told me once not to feed the trolls. but you trolls are SOOOO FUNNY. seriously, do you consider yourselves a SERIOUS MOVEMENT ?
    as I said above, you do nothing. you just angrily lie (as proved in this message) and abuse people. you need to take a serious look at this. you are just ugly professional trolls.
    I came on here, said things that were decent and honest, and you just lied about everything I said. fortunately other people read it and see through your hilarious deceit and lies. beautiful :)
    I’m gonna get drunk and see if I can be as angry and cowardly as Nerd Redhead :)
    CLEW: honesty is all you need. … hmm, or is that love is all you need. no matter. DECENCY is all you need. yeah, that’s it ;)
    *sits back and waits for the trolls to bite, by more misrepresenting lies* :-D :-D

  257. 257
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    254
    yorsubs

    Learn to fucking blockquote, FFS. Your entire comment is unreadable as it is without using them. If you has any sense, you could see everyone else here does it and it’s quite easy, but I won’t hold my breath.

  258. 258
    Raging Bee

    Words mean whatever is communicated in the particular conversation. Definitions just tell us what most people (i.e., not everyone) mean when they use the word.

    There’s no difference. “Whatever is communicated in the particular conversation” is determined by the already-understood meanings of the words used in said conversation.

    Definitions change all the time…

    No, they do not.

    Earlier in this thread I asked if I was insulting myself by calling myself a faggot. Do you really think I’m insulting myself because the dictionary definition says so?

    Calling yourself a faggot does not change what the word means to the rest of us. Are you really so solipsistic that you think you can unilaterally change the meaning and usage of a word by using it on yourself? Get your head out of your ass, boy.

    I have never stated that someone is wrong for experiencing the emotional they experience.

    That’s exactly what you did when you tried to tell us that words meant something other than what people hear them to mean. Quit lying.

    Instead, what I have discussed are the conditions for determining whether saying a word is appropriate.

    And such conditions include the widely-understood meaning of the word — which you can’t unilaterally change or dictate to others.

    Yes, I’m sure there’s an extremely narrow range of circumstances where you can call someone a faggot and it won’t be insulting. Big fucking deal — I’ve heard the word plenty of times, and it’s never been in such circumstances, so your little “discussion” is, at best, nothing but irrelevant mind-wankery.

    I suggest that you read someone more carefully before you accuse someone of being a “pompous twit”.

    I suggest that you stop acting like a pompous twit.

  259. 259
    yorsubs

    sorry if I don’t answer you one by one. I’m just going to wait for a whole “spew” of trolling (I think that is the collective terms for trolls isn’t is ? a “Spew of Trolls”), and then I’ll collect them together and get back to y’all :). remember folks: HONESTY IS EASY (and makes you a better human being. only ugly human beings are dishonest). you’ll notice that I always address you decently when you are HONEST about what I said. anyone that talks to me nicely I’ll be nice back. and to stress, I said that all people who send sexist or misogynist abuse to Jen McCreight should be PROSECUTED. I don’t think it’s ok, I never said it was, and I’ve never thought it was.

    the whisky I’m drinking tonight is a 12 year old Cardhu. quite nice. so far Nerd HedRead is my favourite Troll (though I suspect a heart attack by 40. pure cross-eyes, unfocused rage). your levels of indignation and anger over things that I’ve said that are simply honest and decent are just incredible guys. and I don’t understand why. you could actually have great conversations with people about stuff instead of the bizarre rage. is it cos of the hormones they put in the food and flouride they put in the water in america. I vaguely heard something about that, sounds bad :(

  260. 260
    Raging Bee

    amusing for me. I didn’t realise how ugly people could be. this is pure trolling from you to me. it’s funny. if I was a skepchick I’m sure I would be crying on the floor. instead, I’m laughing my ass off and I’ve opened a bottle of whisky. but I’m drunk enough on the fumes of watching the trolls burn themselves ;)

    What a smug, stupid, self-satisfied drunk moron. Man, the quality of trolls sure has gone down since the Kitzmiller decision…

  261. 261
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I’ve seen nothing SEXIST or MISOGYNIST. and in the only video that I discussed, there is nothing SEXIST / MISOGYNIST.

    That doesn’t refute the knowledge of a long history of SEXIST AND MISOGYNIST shit from Justicar. Your OPINION isn’t and never will be evidence. Get that?

    HONESTY IS EASY

    No, honesty is hard. YOU must be able to admit you are wrong. And your are.

  262. 262
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    so far Nerd HedRead is my favourite Troll (though I suspect a heart attack by 40. pure cross-eyes, unfocused rage). I’m a regular, not a troll. I don’t post to the get the goat of the regulars, unlike you. Who could be a troll. By the way, I’ve been an AARP member for over a decade. So, why don’t you take your inane presuppositions and uneducated guesses and *floosh* send them to the sewer where they belong. They got you in a lot of trouble earlier, which is why you should get rid of that sewage. Start out fresh.

    Look up concern troll and tone troll in Pharyngula Wiki. You have tendencies in those areas.

  263. 263
    Raging Bee

    HONESTY IS EASY (and makes you a better human being. only ugly human beings are dishonest).

    Equating pleasing appearance with honesty, and less-pleasing appearance with dishonesty? That bit of childishness alone sinks yoursubs’ credibility. Funny how this kind of stupid, inarticulate, childish, drunk loser seems to pop up whenever someone criticizes an MRA.

  264. 264
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Dang, borked the blockquote in #260. The first two sentences is yorsubs (who needs to learn how to capitalize like the intellectual world), the rest mine.

  265. 265
    A. Noyd

    I thought this [TW: bigotry of all stripes, but particularly homophobia] would be relevant to the tangent about the anti-gay slurs and reclaiming them. This is one small slice of what reclamation efforts or defenses of slurs for not being “necessarily offensive” have to overcome.

  266. 266
    yorsubs

    @That doesn’t refute the knowledge of a long history of SEXIST AND MISOGYNIST shit from Justicar.@

    And I never said it did. All that happened was: I was ACCUSED of saying that everything that Integralmath said was not SEXIST. ok, that was the accusation. but I never said that. so, as I was lied about, I simply pointed out that the accuser (Jadehawk) is a pretty rubbish liar. that’s all I did :) I never said an OPINION on it (as you seem obsessed about), I simply pointed out that Jadehawk lied. clear, simple, concise. honest. Jadehawk said that I said that in every video by that guy, he never said anything SEXIST. but I NEVER said that, it would be really lovely if someone could show me where I said that, but unfortuantely, it’s impossible to show that I did. cos, um, I didn’t say that :(
    so Jadehawk was like “you said X !” then I said “can you show me X ?”, then Jadehawk says “no, but you said it !!”. daft. Are these concepts (logic, common sense, truth) really difficult for you to get your lack of education around Nerd Redhead ?

    I always admit when I’m wrong. see above. I was wrongly accused, I pointed out the lie. that is all :)
    I’ve not said anything that is untrue, or unfair in any of this. you literally lied about EVERYONE. god, I simply couldn’t be such a liar in life. Basic decency and honesty is worth a lot dude.

  267. 267
    yorsubs

    @Equating pleasing appearance with honesty, and less-pleasing appearance with dishonesty? That bit of childishness alone sinks yoursubs’ credibility.@

    i’m not saying that Raging Lunatic. I’m using a commonly accepted term in english to describe PEOPLE as ugly. this has nothing to do with physical appearance but about the ugliness of the personality. I’m sure you know this, but again, you want to lie. nice. :) *yawn*.

  268. 268
    yorsubs

    @so far Nerd HedRead is my favourite Troll (though I suspect a heart attack by 40. pure cross-eyes, unfocused rage). I’m a regular, not a troll.@
    I can’t undestand you ! learn to use quoteblocks !! ;) (do you like the irony ;))
    oh, you ARE a troll. vicious, opinionated, nasty, evil, dumb. it’s quite a thing. worst of all you just lie about people. I dunno why. you don’t need to. why do it ?

    @concern troll and tone troll@
    I looked them up, so they are terms that someone made up. very nice.
    here’s another term “idiot troll”. look it up on pharygubbly wiki. you have tendancies in that area

  269. 269
    yorsubs

    @By the way, I’ve been an AARP member for over a decade. So, why don’t you take your inane presuppositions and uneducated guesses and *floosh* send them to the sewer where they belong. They got you in a lot of trouble earlier, which is why you should get rid of that sewage. Start out fresh.@

    I don’t know AARP, but I forgive you, and I will take your apology and desire to start over in good faith. I don’t see anything that I got in trouble about. I was honest, consistent, and decent in everything that I said (except when people lied about me). I will be nice to you as long as you stop lying and misrepresenting people. you are probably a very nice person (when you stop hurling abuse and lying, but hey, everyone can be angry at times, so that’s cool). If you are a regular, that’s great man, happy for you (no sarcasm, I’m being nice).

  270. 270
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Dear yorsubs:

    Blockquotes. Please learn how to use them.

  271. 271
    yorsubs

    hey, thanks for the link, no problem, I’ll go back to using them again. willdo.
    I was quite liking just using @ampersands@ as it made the output more concise, and as all the regulars here, instead of being simply as polite as you are, instead called me stupid, tons of insults, bla bla for not using them. maybe one of the bloggers here should do a posting on the intensely aggressive and unwelcoming nature of *some* of those folks on here, as *some* of that lot are a pretty shameful hate-filled bunch.

    when a person is as polite as you are here, the world becomes a happier shinier place (cue Louis Armstrong singing Wonderful World) :)

  272. 272
    ChasCPeterson

    trollin trollin trollin
    though the threads are swollen
    keep them trolls a’trollin…trollin trollin trollin…

  273. 273
    ChasCPeterson

    ampersand: &
    @: uh…not an ampersand, anyway.

  274. 274
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    oh, you ARE a troll. vicious, opinionated, nasty, evil, dumb.

    Yours projection is the size of Montana. Regulars aren’t trolls. Newbies can be. Don’t be one. Stop calling the regulars trolls, troll.

    I looked them up, so they are terms that someone made up. very nice.

    Meaning you don’t understand what they define. Big surprise. Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit.

    I will take your apology

    I neither made nor intended any apology to you. You need to learn better manners. It starts with reading comprehension, and lack of presuppostions. I’m not trying to keep you around, but if you stay, you need to stop putting your foot in your mouth. Which you are still doing.

  275. 275
    Argle Bargle

    Portrait of yorsubs.

  276. 276
    SallyStrange

    I said that all people who send sexist or misogynist abuse to Jen McCreight should be PROSECUTED.

    Oh lordy. Why do you hate FREEZE PEACH?

    (Hint: unless it’s a direct threat, it ain’t illegal. And even if it is, the police don’t care. Your naivete is not charming, it’s embarrassing.)

  277. 277
    Jadehawk

    what I SAID was honest, consistent and valid.

    lol “consistent” lol

    look and ye shall see (I looked and your wrong “honeycake”)

    you’re even dumber than I thought if you think “a year of” and “from Justicar and his MRA buddies” can possibly be “one thing”.

    as I said, you’ve not shown ANYTHING that is SEXIST ABUSE in that video, and that video was where I said he was RIDICULING her.

    incorrect. when you said “that’s ridicule, not abuse”, it was in response to the phrase “a year of abuse and harassment by Justicar and his MRA buddies”

    “and it’s a damn shame that you can’t find a SINGLE QUOTE to say otherwise”
    “lol”
    and you still haven’t.
    you have simply accused me of saying something that I didn’t. …sigh… ;)

    this denial would be sad if it wasn’t so fucking hilarious.

    “to sum up: a year of severe harassment and intimidation, to the point of attacking her dad = not abuse, just ridicule(as per the quote I’ve now pulled a bunch of times). But being called an MRA by NoR = abuse:”
    I never talked about that. you did.

    i don’t know where you learned how conversations work, but responding to something and saying it’s not x, it’s Y is in fact “talk about that”. And of course it’s also true that you “talked about” NoR “abusing” you by calling you an MRA.

    1) I never said they were jokes

    vs.

    Even if she is not, how the fuck is she supposed to know it, when she’s been subjected to a year of abuse and harassment by Justicar and his MRA buddies, and now he has deliberately called attention to information that might enable her harassers to find her address?

    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

    - – - – - -

    2) I never said they were the victim’s fault

    vs.

    people should take personal responsibility for their actions, and if they put themselves in a position that they personally feel is dangerous for them (so, posting lots of clues to their location, after saying that their location needs to be protected) then that person (I would say this about myself also) needs to take personal responsibility for their actions.

    – - – -

    “The assertion that Justicar has never before said anything sexist to or about Jen is a flat falsehood.”
    I never said or asseted that.

    vs.

    that person Integralmath NEVER ONCE did anything that was SEXIST ABUSE towards Jen McCreight

  278. 278
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    I never said they were the victim’s fault, complete lie

    You said the victim should grow a thicker skin, I believe. Amd then offered some “practical choices” for Jen

    – walk away, never go on the internet (what you suggested, but that I disagree with you on).
    – stay on the internet, but become a hermit (again, something that you suggested, but that I disagree 100% on)
    – ignore it, get on with living, posting things, promoting ideas if you feel they are worth it.
    – for threats that seem serious / disturbing, approach the police or FBI to make serious complaints. even if they don’t take it seriously, make the effort if there is a REAL danger.

    There are lots of things about you that are problematic (see errata below), but your suggestions (besides being utterly vapid) indicate that it’s really Jen McCreight that ought to change, not her myriad harassers or those cheering the harassers on. Certainly the harassers ought to be prosecuted. No duh. Thanks for getting on board with the obvious shit. However, the OP is directed at The Justicar who seems to revel in the fact that McCreight is beleaguered by these jackasses. The Justicar’s sentiment is disgusting; any fool* can see that it is disingenuous at best.

     
    Other things:

     
    1. You don’t know Miss Manners, AARP, The Justicar/McCreight history, how to google these thing or how to use blockquotes, but you know who ALF is. My suspicions of your extraterrestrial origins are well founded.
     
    2. You use the word “ugly” to refer to a lot of different things. Of course, I could direct you to thesaurus.com, but I’m guessing that you’d rather not.
     
    3. Despite your increasing use of all caps (to indicate what…emphasis? yelling?), you are neglecting to use capital letters where they actually belong. It’s like some kind of capital letter shortage crisis brought on by misappropriation. Or inebriety.

     
    *OK. Maby not any fool.

  279. 279
    Jadehawk

    I said that all people who send sexist or misogynist abuse to Jen McCreight should be PROSECUTED.

    lol. where in the universe is it illegal to be sexist or misogynist?
    also, should NoR be PROSECUTED for “abusing” you in this thread?
    do you even understand how language works, at all?

    so far Nerd HedRead is my favourite Troll (though I suspect a heart attack by 40.

    NoR is Benjamin Button?

    Jadehawk said that I said that in every video by that guy, he never said anything SEXIST.

    quote or it didn’t happen.

    so Jadehawk was like “you said X !” then I said “can you show me X ?”, then Jadehawk says “no, but you said it !!”.

    this is verging on serious delusion, given that I’ve been quoting your fuckups consistently throughout the thread. O.o

  280. 280
    yorsubs

    oh, ok, the Trolls are back. hello Trolls ! :) :)

    @Regulars aren’t trolls. Newbies can be. Don’t be one. Stop calling the regulars trolls, troll.@
    the Regulars are trolls. there I said it. see, the thing is, get off your toy horse man. do you think you’re speshul ?

    @Meaning you don’t understand what they define.@
    I understand PERFECTLY what they define. you missed the intonation in what I said. what I was saying way, BIG DEAL, so somebody made up some STUPID TERMINOLOGY. it’s not some evidence of MEANING. it’s just made up terms. my degree was in physics. terminology definitions there were impotant to the understanding of things like quantum mechanics, concise carefully used terminology. those terms you pointed at, they’re just made up trash. “don’t understand what they define”. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. hilarious ;)

    The portrait is good Ulysses, except I have 6 legs, and and a huge pair of satanic horns and red and black spots all over. apart from that, spot on princess ;)

    haha, dunno why I called an at symbol an ampersand. boredom :)

    @Hint: unless it’s a direct threat, it ain’t illegal. And even if it is, the police don’t care. Your naivete is not charming, it’s embarrassing.@
    Hint: then maybe people should shutup about such things, and start to get on with addressing the issues instead of all this self-flagellation. I *know* that the police don’t care, that’s the point I’m trying to make. thankyou thankyou thankyou that someone has finally woken up. so, what ya gonna do SalpotStrange? IDIOTS send abuse on the internet. it’s bad, it’s wrong, crying about it does ZERO. so, step to one side and continue to talk about important things. by focusing on the nerds that send the abuse, you are focusing on victimhood. don’t focus on victimhood, focus on mature debate, the people sending abuse are irrelavant (do you think the Suffragette’s focused on the men that called them names ???? no of course they bloody didn’t. they were strong women, and nobody’s “victims”, they wanted to change society and they DID). a movement should be based on solid points. how come it always seems to be about “oh, some geek with acne called me a name !! boo hoo !! :(“. The Suffragette’s would be turning in their graves to see it. ignore the stupid geeks. continue to make solid points calmly and honestly, and the racist, sexist, misogynist people will go away. by engaging them you make fools of yourself. Your naivete is not charming, it’s embarrassing. Well done there SaladStrange for finally catching up !!! *pat on the head* :)

  281. 281
    yorsubs

    @lol. where in the universe is it illegal to be sexist or misogynist? also, should NoR be PROSECUTED for “abusing” you in this thread? do you even understand how language works, at all?@

    you wouldn’t have the guts to be a Suffragette. you’d run away and cry … it would be hilarious. you’d go to the meeting, and they’d be like “somebody tell that weak victimhood type to get lost, we’re trying to change the world. tell her to go and play with her dolly’s” :)

    I did quote you. over and over. if you read what I said, I talked about one video. and I said that video was RIDICULE. you then accused me of denying SEIXST ABUSE. I said that video is NOT sexist (and it’s not. oh, you also said it is SEXIST, but it’s not). you then said that I was suggesting that nothing said in “over a year” of these videos was sexist. but that’s a construct, as I was talking about one video, you then dragged in a year of other videos and said that my comment was about them, which it never was. cowardly, but that’s ok, it’s to be expected from the “Failed Suffragette”. that’s got a good ring to it, you should start a Movement, and call it “The Failed Suffragettes” with the tagline “bringing dishonesty, victimhood, and crying to the front and centre of all discussion” ;)

  282. 282
    consciousness razor

    The Suffragette’s [sic] would be turning in their graves to see it.[citation needed] [I]gnore the stupid geeks.

    Why? Who says they’re “geeks”?

    [C]ontinue to make solid points calmly and honestly, and the racist, sexist, misogynist people will go away.[citation needed] [B]y engaging them you make fools of yourself [sic].[citation needed]

    Why are we foolish, when it’s the racist, sexist fools who are the problem? Shut up, that’s why.

  283. 283
    Anthony K

    yorsubs, whining about NoR:

    If you look at your abuse above

    It’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

    IDIOTS send abuse on the internet. it’s bad, it’s wrong, crying about it does ZERO

    Says the man crying about being abused in this thread.

  284. 284
    yorsubs

    @Certainly the harassers ought to be prosecuted. No duh. Thanks for getting on board with the obvious shit@
    wow, so i got on board ? even though, I like, said that from THE START.

    @. However, the OP is directed at The Justicar who seems to revel in the fact that McCreight is beleaguered by these jackasses. The Justicar’s sentiment is disgusting; any fool* can see that it is disingenuous at best.@
    I was told it was SEXIST and MISOGYNIST. it was in no way, shape or form, SEXIST or MISOGYNIST. it RIDICULED Jen McCreight. I’ve had far worse ridicule in my life. To call that video SEXIST and MISOGYNIST (as Jadehawk did), is a lie. so, liars are kinda pathetic that way. and Jadehawk ain’t gonna admit it of course, cos liars are kinda pathetic that way (even though it’s there is black and white above).

    here you go, I got this just for you (since you can’t use Google), its’ the meaning of an ugly personality that you are so confused about !! :-p
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ugly%20personality

  285. 285
    Jadehawk

    you missed the intonation in what I said

    i’m just going to let that sit there in its glorious beauty :-D

  286. 286
    Argle Bargle

    Questions for you, yorsubs. Are you too drunk or too stupid to use blockquotes. I ask simply because your posts are difficult to read without blockquotes and I was wondering why you were making them hard to read.

  287. 287
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    ….Um. Since when was urban dictionary a valid source?

  288. 288
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    I’ve had far worse ridicule in my life.

    And you can expect more. :-p

  289. 289
    anteprepro

    call it “The Failed Suffragettes” with the tagline “bringing dishonesty, victimhood, and crying to the front and centre of all discussion” ;)

    It is kind of pathetic how similar these assclowns sound. Vague and unsubstantiated claims that we are being dishonest, and much outrage and ridicule over those that dare to care about shit. Almost universally characterizing our frustration and contempt as “crying” or “whining” or “victimization” while never doing the same to the same Manly frustration and the contempt that they display during all their Status Quo Championing. But I suppose yorsubs manages to add something unique in the form of completely unintelligible methods of quotation. Congratulations on that one, you hypocritical, unreflective, bullying asshat.

  290. 290
    Jadehawk

    @Hint: unless it’s a direct threat, it ain’t illegal. And even if it is, the police don’t care. Your naivete is not charming, it’s embarrassing.@
    Hint: then maybe people should shutup about such things, and start to get on with addressing the issues

    are you seriously suggesting that people should shut up about threats and sexism/misogyny that’s not persecutable?!

    O.o

    IDIOTS send abuse on the internet. it’s bad, it’s wrong, crying about it does ZERO.

    go shove that “crying” where the sun don’t shine; and btw, awareness-raising about harassment does do something: it leads to exclusion of the harassers from the community.

  291. 291
    yorsubs

    hello Anthony ! another professional victim and Troll, how are you there, nice to meet you !! :)

    @Says the man crying about being abused in this thread.@

    sorry man, unfortunately I countered that one like 439 times. I don’t consider it abuse. I consider it funny. BUT, if someone was to tell Jen McCreight to put “her head down a toilet that had been freshly pooped in and hold her head there”, then would I be wrong in suggesting that all the members of the Professional Victims, and Failed Suffragette’s would be hollering “ABUSE”. hehe, yep, thought so.
    personally I find it hilarious ;)

  292. 292
    yazikus

    you wouldn’t have the guts to be a Suffragette. you’d run away and cry … it would be hilarious. you’d go to the meeting, and they’d be like “somebody tell that weak victimhood type to get lost, we’re trying to change the world. tell her to go and play with her dolly’s” :)

    Just thought I’d catch up on the comments since yesterday, but goodlordy, yorsubs is painful to read. I mean painful!

  293. 293
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    @Are you too drunk or too stupid to use blockquotes. @

    That’s what the ampersands are for ;-)

  294. 294
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    I’m calling “SEIXST ABUSE” as the new Goats on Fire.

    damn i was supposed to be eschewing capitals and punctuation my bad

  295. 295
    Jadehawk

    your attempts at silencing victims has been duly noted and added to the catalogue of impressively shitty things you’ve been saying, yorsubs

  296. 296
    Jadehawk

    continue to make solid points calmly and honestly, and the racist, sexist, misogynist people will go away.

    reality-denialism

  297. 297
    yazikus

    I consider it funny. BUT, if someone was to tell Jen McCreight to put “her head down a toilet that had been freshly pooped in and hold her head there”, then would I be wrong in suggesting that all the members of the Professional Victims, and Failed Suffragette’s would be hollering “ABUSE”. hehe, yep, thought so.
    personally I find it hilarious ;)

    For seriously, what does this even mean??? And why all the winky faces? Are they trying to compensate for the lack of clarity in the text, like scratching pictures on the wall for everyone because the writing is incomprehensible?

  298. 298
    Anthony K

    hello Anthony ! another professional victim and Troll, how are you there, nice to meet you !! :)

    So, you’re a fucking LIAR as well as a shitbag.

    Professional victims write shit like “I’ve had far worse ridicule in my life” as if it were a relevant argument.

    And that’s you, sweetums.

  299. 299
    Jadehawk

    you then dragged in a year of other videos and said that my comment was about them, which it never was.

    vs.

    Even if she is not, how the fuck is she supposed to know it, when she’s been subjected to a year of abuse and harassment by Justicar and his MRA buddies, and now he has deliberately called attention to information that might enable her harassers to find her address?

    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

  300. 300
    Anthony K

    And why all the winky faces?

    It’s a coward’s tactic

  301. 301
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    another professional victim and Troll,

    Another respected regular, not a bullshiting lair pretending to be a real person. Just because somebody knows more than you, and can nuance issues unlike you, doesn’t make the trolls. I’ve been a skeptic for 30+ years. Which is why the first thing I disbelieve is folks like you who can’t/won’t evidence their claims. As I said, I question everything you say, and hold it up to all of the evidence. And you fail honesty time and time again, and will continue to fail honesty until you learn more about the world.

  302. 302
    yazikus

    @Are you too drunk or too stupid to use blockquotes. @

    You’ve got to be pretty shitfaced to fuck up blockquotes while drunk… Not that I know that from experience… Nope, not me. *whistles and backs away slowly*

  303. 303
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    See if I can squeak this out before Jadehawk beats me to it.

    I don’t consider it abuse.

    vs.

    um, nope, but you just hurl abuse at me anyway ? FORTUNATELY, I’m thick skinned enough to take such abuse on the chin

    Black is white! Night is day!

  304. 304
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Something about you is thick, yorsubs. Not sure it’s the skin.

  305. 305
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    i,i I keep reading yorsubs as yoursubs then wondering why sub[cription]s are involved in the first place.

    But: More HTML!

    <b>bold &/lt;b>
    <i>italics &/lt;i>

  306. 306
    Jadehawk

    look, yorsubs; it’s by now become pretty evident that you wouldn’t know how to use English to clearly express what you mean to save your life. That’s ok, not everyone can be a communicator. Nonetheless, spewing increasedly incoherent rambling all over this thread because you’re pissed that people can’t mindread your intent from the badly written, sloppy English you’ve produced here is not helping your case; continuing to produce comments that look like victim blaming, silencing, and denialism of reality is not helping your case; capslock explosions aren’t helping your case. Just stop digging.

  307. 307
    consciousness razor
    you missed the intonation in what I said

    i’m just going to let that sit there in its glorious beauty :-D

    You have put your ears very, very close to the monitor. (Take some hallucinogens first, just to be safe.)

    That’s what the ampersands are for ;-)

    *snicker*

    continue to make solid points calmly and honestly, and the racist, sexist, misogynist people will go away.

    reality-denialism

    Look how great it appears to be working for him!

    Even so, I don’t see a reason why the rest of us are supposed to bury our heads in the sand.

  308. 308
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    oh, lol, I bork my tags :D

    <b>bold</b>
    <i>italics</i>
    <blockquote>

    blockquote

    </blockquote>

    And seriously, if I can do this on no sleep and without the help of vim/emacs/another proper text editor, you can do this too!

  309. 309
    yorsubs

    @go shove that “crying” where the sun don’t shine; and btw, awareness-raising about harassment does do something: it leads to exclusion of the harassers from the community.@

    aw Jadehawk, come on now ! I thought we were getting on great now. you’re starting your Failed Suffragette’s Club, and I was going to cheer you on. sure, awareness-raising about harassment is important. once again, you TOTALLY misrepresented what I said. I LOVE IT ! you’ll get what I was saying. in time. with prozac :)

    @I’ve had far worse ridicule in my life.@
    @And you can expect more. :-p@

    aw, sorry man, I didn’t mean here. :( I meant in real situations, and really it’s always very easy to ward off. as long as I’m honest and consistent I quite enjoy dealing with the gibbering of fools. my girlfriend has been laughing her ass off about this. it’s been enjoyable for both of us, like watching dogs chasing their tails (you are the dog. the tail is the lies you make up in that metaphor by the way in case you don’t get it). But at the end, as long as I’m consistent, honest, don’t lie (see Jadehawk, the king/queen of lies), and just keep being truthful, then you can continue with the RAGE.

    @Vague and unsubstantiated claims that we are being dishonest,@
    whoa there, I’ve given SPECIFIC details of over more than a dozen direct lies made about me just above (you can use that wheel scrolly thing on your mouse, that’s it, roll it up to read it) above. totally not vague and totally substantiated, and quite fruity as well !! I forgive you for your blatant Tone Trolling.

  310. 310
    boby

    @256

    There’s no difference. “Whatever is communicated in the particular conversation” is determined by the already-understood meanings of the words used in said conversation.

    What is communicated within the conversation depends on what the particular individuals in the conversation understand each other to mean, which may not always be the way the words are usually used.

    Definitions change all the time…
    No, they do not.

    If words are that static, then how do you think new languages can about? Why aren’t we all speaking Latin or some older language?

    Are you really so solipsistic that you think you can unilaterally change the meaning and usage of a word by using it on yourself? Get your head out of your ass, boy.

    If you actually read all of what I’ve written here, you would have seen that I clearly said in post 170 that in order to change the definition of a word, a majority (not just me) has to adopt the new meaning of the word.

    I have never stated that someone is wrong for experiencing the emotional they experience.

    That’s exactly what you did when you tried to tell us that words meant something other than what people hear them to mean. Quit lying.

    That miscommunication sometimes occurs within conversations (speaker means one thing, listener interprets it another way) doesn’t mean that people aren’t entitled to their own emotions. For example, if someone who has been marginalized by use of the word queer in his/her past overheard a good friend of mine call me queer an a non-pejorative way, and subsequently re-experienced the emotions s/he previously did with that word, I wouldn’t say that s/he is wrong for feeling that way. Yet, if that person thought that I was being marginalized in that particular case (which is not always necessary for that person to re-experience those emotions), I’d say there has been a genuine misunderstanding.

    So your accusation is baseless.

    Instead, what I have discussed are the conditions for determining whether saying a word is appropriate.

    And such conditions include the widely-understood meaning of the word — which you can’t unilaterally change or dictate to others.

    If you had bothered to read my posts you would have seen that I have previously acknowledged that the widely-understood meaning of the word is one factor in determining if the use of a word is appropriate. I’ve also stated that it requires more than a tiny minority to change the widely-understood meaning of the word.

    Yes, I’m sure there’s an extremely narrow range of circumstances where you can call someone a faggot and it won’t be insulting.

    So I’m glad we’ve come to a point of agreement.

    Big fucking deal — I’ve heard the word plenty of times, and it’s never been in such circumstances, so your little “discussion” is, at best, nothing but irrelevant mind-wankery.

    If you read my posts carefully, I think you would have understood that my discussion was about how the appropriateness of word usage is based on context. That you’ve never come across the word fag used in an appropriate context (which I’d argue not true if you include the written word, since you using the word in this discussion to talk about the word is itself appropriate usage of the word) is irrelevant to the point that what makes using the word faggot inappropriate is context.

    I suggest that you read someone more carefully before you accuse someone of being a “pompous twit”.

    I suggest that you stop acting like a pompous twit.

    If that’s what you think of my actions, then I urge you to carefully read all of my posts on this thread.

  311. 311
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Does anyone else find yorsub’s ableism quite annoying?

  312. 312
    Jadehawk

    you’ll get what I was saying. in time. with prozac :)

    shove your disablism where the sun don’t shine, you fucking asshole. DON’T ever make another fucking joke about mental health in my presence, you piece of scum.

  313. 313
    Anthony K

    um, nope, but you just hurl abuse at me anyway ? FORTUNATELY, I’m thick skinned enough to take such abuse on the chin

    Eppure si piange.

  314. 314
    Jadehawk

    sure, awareness-raising about harassment is important. once again, you TOTALLY misrepresented what I said.

    vs.

    @Hint: unless it’s a direct threat, it ain’t illegal. And even if it is, the police don’t care. Your naivete is not charming, it’s embarrassing.@
    Hint: then maybe people should shutup about such things, and start to get on with addressing the issues instead of all this self-flagellation. I *know* that the police don’t care, that’s the point I’m trying to make. thankyou thankyou thankyou that someone has finally woken up. so, what ya gonna do SalpotStrange? IDIOTS send abuse on the internet. it’s bad, it’s wrong, crying about it does ZERO. so, step to one side and continue to talk about important things. by focusing on the nerds that send the abuse, you are focusing on victimhood. don’t focus on victimhood, focus on mature debate, the people sending abuse are irrelavant (do you think the Suffragette’s focused on the men that called them names ???? no of course they bloody didn’t. they were strong women, and nobody’s “victims”, they wanted to change society and they DID). a movement should be based on solid points. how come it always seems to be about “oh, some geek with acne called me a name !! boo hoo !! :(“. The Suffragette’s would be turning in their graves to see it. ignore the stupid geeks. continue to make solid points calmly and honestly, and the racist, sexist, misogynist people will go away. by engaging them you make fools of yourself.

  315. 315
    yorsubs

    oh, ok nightshade, I’ll use italics then

    don’t worry, Jadehawk will continue to lie. :) it’s like Tourettes “you said it sexism is not real !” me: “no JadeHawk, I didn’t say that, you just made it up, calm down and take some prozac. there there, it’ll get better …”. Jadehawk: “you said something SEXIST !”, me : “no Jadehawk, I said prozac, it’s quite a different word. relax”.

    I don’t consider it abuse.
    it’s abuse, in YOUR terminology. if any person that tells Jen McCreight to put her head down a toilet filled with poop (as was said to me) the JadePork would immediately call them ABUSIVE !!! (in fact, she would accuse it of being SEXIST and MISOGYNIST as well, that’s a given, even though it’s not)
    so, in YOUR terminology, it’s abuse.

    um, nope, but you just hurl abuse at me anyway ? FORTUNATELY, I’m thick skinned enough to take such abuse on the chin
    that’s right. so if any of this was said to Jen McCreight it would be called abuse. FORTUNATELY, I find it hilarious.

    Black is white! Night is day!
    well simple is simple, but I guess comprehension is difficult without an education!

  316. 316
    yazikus

    @jadehawk
    That was very neatly done. Sums up the back and forth quite nicely.

  317. 317
    UnknownEric the Apostate

    …And You Shall Know Them* By The Trail Of Turds.

    *slymers, obvs.

  318. 318
    Anthony K

    don’t worry, Jadehawk will continue to lie. :)

    Actually, fuckface, the only one I’ve seen lie is you.

  319. 319
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    People like yorsubs make me wish that capslock didn’t come standard on keyboards.

  320. 320
    consciousness razor
    Definitions change all the time…
    No, they do not.

    If words are that static, then how do you think new languages can about? Why aren’t we all speaking Latin or some older language?

    Yes, and why are there still monkeys? Meanings are stable enough that we’re able to communicate relatively easily with others all of the time, without having to redefine terms any time we start a conversation. We expect some amount of stability and we get some amount of stability, and that is how we’re able to carry on conversations without having to do all of that extra work of inventing new languages or meanings every time. That doesn’t mean words are “static.” It means they’re stable.

    That miscommunication sometimes occurs within conversations (speaker means one thing, listener interprets it another way) doesn’t mean that people aren’t entitled to their own emotions. For example, if someone who has been marginalized by use of the word queer in his/her past overheard a good friend of mine call me queer an a non-pejorative way, and subsequently re-experienced the emotions s/he previously did with that word, I wouldn’t say that s/he is wrong for feeling that way. Yet, if that person thought that I was being marginalized in that particular case (which is not always necessary for that person to re-experience those emotions), I’d say there has been a genuine misunderstanding.

    So your accusation is baseless.

    You claimed that they’re not marginalized, or it isn’t marginalizing, when that happens. Accordingly, it’s apparently just a “misunderstanding” on the part of the listener. Because intent is magic. You at least acknowledge that their feelings are valid and appropriate here, but I don’t get how “intent” could make it non-marginalizing.

  321. 321
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Jadehawk [yoursubs] will continue to lie.

    Fixed that for you.

    but I guess comprehension is difficult without an education!

    There is nothing a fuckwitted loser like you can teach us, but we can teach you a lot. It starts with the concept of “shut the fuck up and listen”. You can’t listen. Your mouth is moving like a liberturds, spewing slogan without cogency.

  322. 322
    yorsubs

    Eppure si piange
    actually it was about a hundred years ago that I said that, so no, not really. catch up man? as I’ve said 937 times, imagine if “put your head down a poop filled toilet” was said to Jen McCreight. what heights of “that is SEXIST ABUSE!” would be shouted from the roof-tops. hmm, the hypocrisy says it all really ;)

    Jadehawk, thanks for highlighting some important points in what I’ve said. when you open the Failed Suffragette Liars (that’s a spin-off club from the core club), I will look forward to the opening party (hopefully you will let me borrow some of your lies). I think you are beginning to wake up from the lie-fuddled nightmare that you were in. now, go and eat a sandwich!

  323. 323
    LykeX

    @yorsubs

    “Joking” about mental issue is not acceptable. Stop it and apologize.
    I don’t care whatever point you might think you have. That’s not cool and it won’t fly around here.

  324. 324
    Anthony K

    actually it was about a hundred years ago that I said that, so no, not really. catch up man? as I’ve said 937 times, imagine if “put your head down a poop filled toilet” was said to Jen McCreight. what heights of “that is SEXIST ABUSE!” would be shouted from the roof-tops. hmm, the hypocrisy says it all really ;)

    I know you’re kind of fucking stupid, but claiming that something would happen as if it did happen and then claiming that the thing that actually did not happen constitutes some kind of hypocrisy isn’t actually a good argument, you stupid sack of shit.

    Jesus, what’s wrong with you?

  325. 325
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    as I’ve said 937 times,

    Who the fuck cares what an ignorant fool has to say? Nobody here does. Stop being that ignorant fool chew toy. Not even a good chew toy. I had you read from your first post. You didn’t disappoint, which could have happened if you actually evidenced your claims….

  326. 326
    yorsubs

    People like yorsubs make me wish that capslock didn’t come standard on keyboards.
    sorry nightshade, I really only do all the CAPS to wind that lot up. how am I doing ? do you think I’ve wound them up nicely ? :) at least I detect a sense of humour from you. you’d do well in Scotland, we’d have some good laughs in the pub. you at least could have a laugh. this lot are on their hobby horses rocking furiously and howling at the moon by comparison …

    There is nothing a fuckwitted loser like you can teach us
    boo hoo :( I’m going to start a blog and say that someone abused me. then you’ll see ! well shucks, I guess that you are just superior to me in every way Nerd-o-ped. actually, I can teach you quite a lot man:
    1. don’t call someone a misogynist if they’re not. it’s pathetic.
    2. don’t call someone’s video “Sexist” if it’s not. again, that’s pathetic
    3. don’t lie
    4. eat your greens
    5. poop regularly, and don’t shove anyone’s head down the toilet after pooping. heads only go down toilets before the poop (everyone knows that).

  327. 327
    Anthony K

    sorry nightshade, I really only do all the CAPS to wind that lot up

    Eppur e dici che non sei un troll.

  328. 328
    yorsubs

    I had you read from your first post.

    wow, you must be psychic ! in fact, you may be a Prophet ! no, wait, you might be the second coming of Christ with that power of foresight.

    jeez dude, get over yourself already. get off the hobby horse …

  329. 329
    Anthony K

    boo hoo :( I’m going to start a blog and say that someone abused me.

    You’ve done that here, fuckface. Are you unable to read your own writing?

  330. 330
    Anthony K

    as I’ve said 937 times

    get off the hobby horse …

    Nice work champ.

  331. 331
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    @yorsubs

    Hun, all your caps locks is doing is making the inner sysadmin in me really annoyed.

    And if you think I’d like to share a cuppa with you in a pub….you should search my posting history.

  332. 332
    Anthony K

    wow, you must be psychic ! in fact, you may be a Prophet ! no, wait, you might be the second coming of Christ with that power of foresight.

    No, it’s just observation and prediction. Basic components science. I can see why it would frighten someone like you, though.

  333. 333
    consciousness razor

    If I’m not supposed to take yorsubs’ obsessive trolling seriously, then what? Is it a comedy act, performance art, self-parody maybe? Why is no one paying for this?

  334. 334
    John Morales

    [meta]

    Heh, I just caught up on this thread and watching this yorsubs specimen remove all tatters of pretence to being other than a trolling troll was amusing if predictable.

  335. 335
    yorsubs

    I know you’re kind of fucking stupid, but claiming that something would happen as if it did happen and then claiming that the thing that actually did not happen constitutes some kind of hypocrisy isn’t actually a good argument, you stupid sack of shit.

    ah, but it has happened is the point. Jadehawk above claims that criticism of Jen McCreight is sexist and misogynist (specifically she says that the video blog that this whole post is about sexist and misogynist, when it is not in any way those things). the claims of abuse, are endless, and harassment can be anything. absolutely, telling Jen to put her head down a toilet full of poop is considered “abusive” by the Jadehawk. so, if you can’t get that simple logic, I recommend you don’t do a degree in maths or physics. you’d find it … difficult.

    “Joking” about mental issue is not acceptable. Stop it and apologize. I don’t care whatever point you might think you have. That’s not cool and it won’t fly around here.
    I don’t think that mental health is funny. I also don’t think that serial misrepresentation and lying about a person is funny. what is that you object to exactly ? is it the mass trolling at me. or the incredibly insulting bla bla and threats directed at me. do those fly, and yet what I say does not fly ? that’s a fierce double-standard. do you want me to compile all of the potty mouth insults directed at me ? (it’s ok, those comments might be called abuse if sent to Jen, but if sent to me, that’s not abuse. again, no double standard).

    Eppur e dici che non sei un troll.
    that’s right, I was polite and everything I said was decent and honest. so, then all the fairly childish daft digs and trolling at me started, so a couple of people screamed at me about blockquotes, so I just figured, well, those people are less important than they think they are, so I’ll just ignore their trolly ways and continue to not blockquote (don’t feed the trolls, particularly if they are evil and nasty trolls !). I’ve balanced things quite well. Kristina agrees (oh, by the way, my girlfriend is Italian, she was wondering if you were using Italian to appear intellectual. hey, she says it works ! she says you come across as very mysterious and intellectual !! ;)).

  336. 336
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    jeez dude, get over yourself already. get off the hobby horse …

    I suggest you quit projecting your faults onto me. You have nothing cogent to say. The tells of MRA crowd are well known. The stupidity of the same group is legendary….

  337. 337
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    …does anyone else find yorsubs‘s constant references to his girlfriend…kind of creepy?

  338. 338
    Jadehawk

    I don’t think that mental health is funny.

    vs.

    it’s like Tourettes “you said it sexism is not real !” me: “no JadeHawk, I didn’t say that, you just made it up, calm down and take some prozac. there there, it’ll get better …”. Jadehawk: “you said something SEXIST !”, me : “no Jadehawk, I said prozac, it’s quite a different word. relax”.

    vs.

    everything I said was decent

    disableist scum.

  339. 339
    LykeX

    @yorsubs
    Once again, I don’t care about all that. I really don’t. You made a “joke”/reference to another poster’s mental health. You did not do so in a kind manner. This is in a different class than insults, trolling and foul language and it’s not acceptable. This is not the same as calling someone a bad name. This crosses a line.

    You screwed up. Acknowledge it, apologize for it and resolve not to do it again. THEN we can talk about whatever else you might think is important. Only then.

    I am not willing to listen to anything else or consider any argument or point you wish to make until you’ve apologized for that bit of revolting behavior. Every moment that passes where you don’t is a strike against you.

  340. 340
    yorsubs

    You’ve done that here, fuckface. Are you unable to read your own writing?
    dude, seriously, that’s called irony ? tell me you understand irony… oh, the bit about you being mysterious and intellectual was also ironic. oops, sorry :(

    No, it’s just observation and prediction. Basic components science. I can see why it would frighten someone like you, though.
    have a guess at how well you conformed to what I thought you would do … ;)
    shit, I have to explain to you that I am being sarcastic here don’t i. so, like if I say “boo hoo, I’m frightened”, that’s not serious, I’m just ridiculing what you are saying (Jadehawk would calling that sexist abuse of course).

    If I’m not supposed to take yorsubs’ obsessive trolling seriously, then what? Is it a comedy act, performance art, self-parody maybe? Why is no one paying for this?
    it’s great isn’t it. what I did was, I was honest and decent and then some trolls started you know, lying and making fools of themselves. and then they just continued. I’ve loved every minute of it. so the technique, is that I just try to reflect back to the trolls the same rage and hate that they are putting out (for example, see Anthony squealing “fuckface” at me like a little piggy hehe). so then I just reflect the hate back for a laugh. I just stay honest basically, and the trolls just lie, rage, howl at the moon etc. it was wonderful entertainment for me to see what the trolls would come back with. everything, except honesty. so I think the Failed Suffragette’s club is just perfect. I used to be in debating societies at uni and all that, but it was more difficult as had to work hard in competitions. this is just fun, as it’s just really really angry people who have this idea that they are intellectually superior, but come across as, well, somewhere far far beneath that. it’s literally impossible for them to just be civil. anybody says anything they don’t like and the lies and misrepresentation come out in force. they would be laughed out of debate competitions so fast. and yet … they deem themselves superior (yep, to a block of wood maybe …). love it. but am getting tired now :)

  341. 341
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Also, imho, saying “I don’t wanna” is pretty much the most childish thing ever.

    so, then all the fairly childish daft digs and trolling at me started, so a couple of people screamed at me about blockquotes, so I just figured, well, those people are less important than they think they are, so I’ll just ignore their trolly ways and continue to not blockquote

    Frankly, you’re less than the arsehole who can’t be arsed to comment their fucking code.

  342. 342
    Argle Bargle

    I’ve often seen arguments go from Point A to Point B to Point C but I don’t recall seeing an argument go from Point A to Point L to Point F to Point Not-A to Point Not-F. Congratulations yorsubs, you’ve brought incoherence and self-contradiction to a new low.

  343. 343
    yorsubs

    …does anyone else find yorsubs‘s constant references to his girlfriend…kind of creepy?
    twice right or was it 3, no, it was twice ? does twice constitue “constant” ? Nerds girlfriends was also referenced above. yeah, I found the reference to his girlfriend waaaaaayyyyyy creepy too nightshade ! :-s

    remember, the trolls started all this (see above), and all I did was respond honestly. I’ve made sure to keep my level somewhat below the lies and insults of them (e.g. saying tourettes is bad and I shouldn’t have said that, but I’ve been accused of being a sexist and misogynist by Jadehawk over and over, all completely baseless accusations, very filthy and disgusting accusations, which in fact, would lose her a job in the UK under HR law quicker than she can say “misogynist”, as of course would a joke about tourettes, both would constitute equal abuse under libel and slander laws in fact, so while you say one is far worse than the other, the law disagrees. it is not ok for a woman to constantly toss around terms like misogynist at me or any other man, just because she has hate-issues. To denigrate someone by calling them a misogynist in a completely unwarranted way is slander. and, have a guess at who started this slander … wasn’t me). so, the trolls attacked me (you can check that above) and I simply was honest and balanced my insults to be at a level below their venom. just enough to keep them going. and boy do they go, like a duracell bunny, they just keep going on and on and on and on …
    if you think it’s ok for a woman to call a man a misogynist, just because he’s a man, then you need to visit a UK prison, as it’s not ok, and it’s defamation, and people are in prison for such slander right now in the UK (and most likely in the US also). law backs me up on this one. so that’s 5 counts of defamation directed at me from Jadehawk vs 1 count of defamation from me to Jadehawk. will Jadehawk apologise for defamation ? or are baseless accusations calling a man a misogynist ‘just fine and dandy’ around here ?

  344. 344
    boby

    @318

    Meanings are stable enough that we’re able to communicate relatively easily with others all of the time, without having to redefine terms any time we start a conversation.

    Sure. But that doesn’t mean one can’t hold particular conversations in which the word is being understood as stripped from its common pejorative connotation. In fact those conversations must happen for language to change, and language changes frequently (although not so frequently that confusion commonly results from it, but sometimes that happens).

    You claimed that they’re not marginalized, or it isn’t marginalizing, when that happens. Accordingly, it’s apparently just a “misunderstanding” on the part of the listener. Because intent is magic. You at least acknowledge that their feelings are valid and appropriate here, but I don’t get how “intent” could make it non-marginalizing.

    I’m going to be somewhat ironic by appealing to the dictionary definition for marginalize for the sake of clarity. The top definition for marginalize according to thefreedictionary.com is “To relegate or confine to a lower or outer limit or edge, as of social standing.” This is more or less what I’ve mean when talking about marginalizing. It is possible for the party to re-experience emotions previous associated with the word even though s/he was not being “[Relegated] or confine[d] to a lower or outer limit or edge, as of social standing,” by that particular person’s use of the word queer, or faggot, or other historically offensive words.

  345. 345
    yorsubs

    Point A to Point L to Point F to Point Not-A to Point Not-F
    no, I went from point A to point B to point C. The difference though, was that I didn’t lie, fairly simple points, but just a lot of people found difficult to get. really clear points. I wish you luck with your education.

  346. 346
    Jadehawk

    I’ve been accused of being a sexist and misogynist by Jadehawk

    see now that is what a lie looks like.

    quote or it didn’t happen, disableist scum

  347. 347
    consciousness razor

    It is possible for the party to re-experience emotions previous associated with the word even though s/he was not being “[Relegated] or confine[d] to a lower or outer limit or edge, as of social standing,” by that particular person’s use of the word queer, or faggot, or other historically offensive words.

    Fine, take that as your definition. You still haven’t given an answer.

    Suppose some person believes that a word is a slur and is marginalizing to them. Suppose also that the person who used the word did not intend it that way.

    So what is the effect in that case? The effect is that person is marginalized. Their interpretation of the slur isn’t just hanging there doing nothing, waiting for the intention to magically zip over from the person’s brain to settle the matter. The intention of the other person makes no difference at all. Their interpretation is all they have, so that determines the effect. So far as any expression can socially “relegate or confine” someone (in a figurative sense, which you’ve already granted can and does happen), that is exactly what it does.

    So you were wrong to claim otherwise. If now you’d just admit that, we could all get on with our lives.

  348. 348
    markbrown

    @yorsubs

    It would only be defamation if it wasn’t true, and you could show that you were somehow negatively affected by it. Do feel free to continue acting all butt-hurt about people calling you on your bullshit though.

    Alternatively, you could leave and stop fouling the comments with your crap.

  349. 349
    yorsubs

    Frankly, you’re less than the arsehole who can’t be arsed to comment their fucking code.
    ooh, get you, handbags at dawn ! ;) haha, the empty insults of the weak coder … a little petty there no ?

    Also, imho, saying “I don’t wanna” is pretty much the most childish thing ever.
    shame it wasn’t that way. I was going to use the blockquotes when you first said, but then Nerd-o-matic started ranting insults again, so I just thought, “hell, let the angry troll rant at my non-quoted text some more”. it’s not “don’t wanna”, it was “let’s see how angry the trolls get”. predictable as clockwork. seriously, I’m not the troll by any measure. If you look above you’ll see it all, and why I just replied decently while those trolls insults escalated faster than illegal US warmongering.

  350. 350
    yorsubs

    It would only be defamation if it wasn’t true, and you could show that you were somehow negatively affected by it. Do feel free to continue acting all butt-hurt about people calling you on your bullshit though.
    that’s right, exactly the same as the tourettes comment, you have correctly backed up my point. I defamed Jadehawk once. Jadehawk defamed me many many times far far predating my defamation of her. my butt is fine, thanks for your concern (and creepy interest in my butt !!). as I said, like 984 times, the defamation / abuse / gibbering from a bunch of trolls is water off a ducks back.

    Alternatively, you could leave and stop fouling the comments with your crap.
    aw, remember, I only balance things to the pitiful insults of the trolls. I keep my insults at a level somewhat below yours, just to stay “good”. so, I would’ve gone away *ages* ago, if not for the tweedledum, tweedledee and tweedletwits constantly troll gibbering insults at me. politeness costs nothing after all ;) no. you’re foul ;) (I had to put that insult there to balance you being an arsehole there see, otherwise I wouldn’t have insulted you at all. stop being a troll man).

  351. 351
    Jadehawk

    Jadehawk defamed me many many times

    quote or it didn’t happen, lying disableist scum.

    also, using slurs is not defamation; I would not be insulted, defamed, or otherwise negatively affected by being accused of being mentally ill (except by other disableist scum like you, I guess). Using slurs is contributing to the marginalization of the group whom you just used as a slur, in this case people with mental disabilities.

  352. 352
    Jadehawk

    I keep my insults at a level somewhat below yours, just to stay “good”.

    more reality denial. You’re the only one here who has resorted to bigoted (in this case disableist) slurs; consequently, your slurs are way beyond anything anyone else has insulted you with.

  353. 353
    SallyStrange

    very filthy and disgusting accusations

    Ugh, no, not even. It’s a fact-based observation, which, if you disagree with, you can, on a factual basis. Getting all hot and bothered because you think it’s “filthy and disgusting” to do bigotry just shows how little you understand.

  354. 354
    Argle Bargle

    yursubs isn’t using blockquotes because “I wanna play silly games because I’m an arsehole troll.” It certainly is a good way to get the point across that xe’s an immature, childish troll.

  355. 355
    Jadehawk

    It’s a fact-based observation

    actually in this case it’s a fabrication on yorsub’s part. look through my comments; until he started being disableist, I’ve not accused yorsub of anything at all; most of my comments are just juxtapositions of his contradictions

  356. 356
    yorsubs

    off to bed. it was fun talking and it was so nice to make friends with such open, good humoured, friendly, welcoming, not-uptight-at-all people (there may have been a tiny bit of irony in there!). was incredible what dedicated insistent violent hate-filled trolls y’all are, but I particularly enjoyed The Failed Suffragette’s Club (my gift to you). that’s gonna be classic when you get that up and running. I thought up a new slogan: “It’s totally unacceptable abuse to tell Jen McCreight or any other woman to stick her head down a toilet pan into a big fresh poop, that would be totally not ok abuse! But it is ok to say that to any man because all men are all members of the misogynist Patriarchy scum! Abuse is gender specific!”. but this was fun hey, let’s do it again sometime ! :).

  357. 357
    Jadehawk

    violent

    more lies from the disableist piece of shit

  358. 358
    LykeX

    that’s right, exactly the same as the tourettes comment

    No. You weren’t making a factual statement. You weren’t defaming. You weren’t even being insulting. What you were doing was making a comment intended to use the vulnerability of a person to marginalize and hurt them. To deliberately cause them pain and to assert yourself over them.

    You were and are being the exact kind of person that I’ve always loathed and despised and spent most of my teenage years fantasizing about killing. You were being a disgusting piece of shit and to top it off, you were doing it with the same kind of oblivious nonchalance that your kind always does: As if you’re surprised that there might actually be other people in the world worth a second thought.

    I’m sure you’re sitting there giggling to yourself about how well your trolling efforts are going. That’s not a counter-point to what I’m saying. It illustrates what I’m saying. You’re using other people as tools for your own amusement. That’s not right. It’s actually quite disgusting.

    If you were a decent person, you’d snap out of it and apologize. You’re not, so you won’t.

  359. 359
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I only balance things to the pitiful insults of the trolls.

    People insulting you aren’t trolls. The regulars aren’t trolls. You, the stranger, posting for the reaction, are the classic definition of the troll. It is you, not us. Typical MRA fuckwit. Can’t get basic definitions straight, hence can’t make a rational point….

  360. 360
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Oh, now the insults come out :D

    ooh, get you, handbags at dawn ! ;) haha, the empty insults of the weak coder … a little petty there no ?

    And seriously, comments and readability are great, and seriously you’d be so much more effect at communicating if you’d make your comments more readable.

    Also, imho, saying “I don’t wanna” is pretty much the most childish thing ever.

    shame it wasn’t that way. I was going to use the blockquotes when you first said, but then Nerd-o-matic started ranting insults again, so I just thought, “hell, let the angry troll rant at my non-quoted text some more”. it’s not “don’t wanna”, it was “let’s see how angry the trolls get”. predictable as clockwork. seriously, I’m not the troll by any measure. If you look above you’ll see it all, and why I just replied decently while those trolls insults escalated faster than illegal US warmongering.

    Hun, doing something to piss someone else off is kind of by definition a troll.

  361. 361
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    (I had to put that insult there to balance you being an arsehole there see, otherwise I wouldn’t have insulted you at all. stop being a troll man).

    Since you are the one trolling, take your advice and shut the fuck up. But then, you aren’t smart enough to understand the hole you dug from your first post that is way, way, way, over your head….And the first rule of holes, is when in over your head, stop digging. Your inability to do so tells us all we need to know…

  362. 362
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    but this was fun hey, let’s do it again sometime ! :).

    We’re open 24/7/365. Your mind is open 0/0/0. Think about that before you need another lesson. You have nothing to teach us,

    If you had something to teach us, it would go like this: “This is what I believe, and this [link to the evidence to back up the claim] is why”. Your word alone is *floosh* sewage and treated as such.

  363. 363
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    And so yorsubs flounces off into the night, secure in the knowledge that s/he’s made the world safe for bigots everywhere.

    Rest, refresh and rejuvenate your poor, tired self yoursubs, for tomorrow there will be more reality to deny, more hate to stand up for, and of course, more introspection and compassion to be ducked, dodged and avoided at all costs.

    Hush now, brave, brave hero, hush now. The world will just have to muddle along until you can arise, strong and renewed, to once again tell it like it is, to set all of us poor, deluded, caring and compassionate people to rights.

    Sleep well, little diddums, sleep well.

  364. 364
    anteprepro

    off to bed. it was fun talking and it was so nice to make friends with such open, good humoured, friendly, welcoming, not-uptight-at-all people (there may have been a tiny bit of irony in there!). was incredible what dedicated insistent violent hate-filled trolls y’all are, but I particularly enjoyed The Failed Suffragette’s Club (my gift to you). that’s gonna be classic when you get that up and running. I thought up a new slogan: “It’s totally unacceptable abuse to tell Jen McCreight or any other woman to stick her head down a toilet pan into a big fresh poop, that would be totally not ok abuse! But it is ok to say that to any man because all men are all members of the misogynist Patriarchy scum! Abuse is gender specific!”. but this was fun hey, let’s do it again sometime ! :).

    Awww. They’re always so proud when they make their first shit on the carpet. Who’s all happy that they made a mess in someone else’s territory? You are! You made a big boom-boom! Yes you did! Yes you did! You taught us to bother trying to potty train you, you clever little wit.

    Now hopefully the troll decided to close the browser window, so their lack of object permanence means that they will never find their way back to this thread ever again.

  365. 365
    Arawhon, a Strawberry Margarita

    Wow, yorsub reads like an AI built on the youtube comments section has become sapient and decided to spread its inanity everywhere.

  366. 366
    yorsubs

    ok Jadehawk, maybe you didn’t say that (there were just soooooo many insults, it’s hard to tell you trolls apart anymore, ya know how all you trolls look the same, but that’s not fair, so if you didn’t say it, you didn’t say it, and you can take your indignance and enjoy it). it was in fact another misogynistist (is that the correct term for a piece of shit that calls men mysogynists for no reason) that called me that I guess (plus all the other troll comments you and your mob of trolls came out with). (oh, by the way, the word is spelt ‘disablist’). who was it that called me a misogynist? ah fuck, probably a couple of you mad trolls. who cares…

    hey, wait a fucking minute, I just looked and what I said was “like Tourettes” and it was specifically not describing the actual condition of Tourettes, but your “inability to not lie”. i.e. quite a different thing. which is not saying that you have Tourettes. you mad fucks had me believing I’d defamed you, when I have not in any way you do have an incredible ability to be unable to not lie in that way. to say that something is like something is not the same at all. seriously, you people are fucking unbelievable, but if anyone can wear professional victimhood and me-me-me, you guys make is look hot ! ;) ah well, I love it, man, you guys have no humour, indignant, uptight, angry trolls. you need to get that “Failed Suffragette” club up and running real soon. and you can call is a “Postive Activism Movement” also (man, can’t have enough positive activism movements ! it’s a “movement” man !!! we are activists !!!).

    right. I’m going over to Jen McCreights blog to tell her to shove her head down a toilet pan after someone has put a big fresh poop in it. That wouldn’t be abusive right ?

  367. 367
    yorsubs

    And so yorsubs flounces off into the night, secure in the knowledge that s/he’s made the world safe for bigots everywhere.

    Jadehawk! is this person a “bigotist” ?
    seriously dude, totally weak. Actually, I read about you, you got black people and you beat them and called them the N word don’t you. you are that guy. you need to go and kiss a black man (with tongues) to prove you are a not a racist (and put your finger up his bum). I don’t think you can do that though, because you are a known racist. Racists like you are sick man. Why do you want to be a bigoted racist ? I don’t like racists that keep slaves and call them n****r. it’s really really bad and you are a shameful human being. racism is bad man, look, please, just stop hating on black people, it’s disgusting. please man. don’t be a racist man.

    anyway, guys, I’m back, cos I can’t find Jen McCreight’s blog. I need to go over there and tell her to shove her head into a poop filled toilet pan. just have to see if she tells me that’s abusive or not.

  368. 368
    Jadehawk

    oh, by the way, the word is spelt ‘disablist’

    Adjective [edit]
    disableist (comparative more disableist, superlative most disableist)
    Alternative form of disablist.

    you’re wrong.

    I just looked and what I said was “like Tourettes” and it was specifically not describing the actual condition of Tourettes, but your “inability to not lie”. i.e. quite a different thing. which is not saying that you have Tourettes. you mad fucks had me believing I’d defamed you,

    that’s a pure projection on your part, given that no one here made that claim. You have however been disableist by using Tourette’s and “take a prozac” the way you have.

    you do have an incredible ability to be unable to not lie in that way

    this of course is factually incorrect as can be easily seen from this thread. I have not told a single lie about you; on the other hand, you’ve now told a number of them about me.

  369. 369
    yorsubs

    prozac is used in a non-mental health way by tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in america and europe that get it outside of a standard mental health treatment. but you know this.

    nice try, but no, I am not disablist in any way. to describe prozac in that way is fine. and what I said
    about Tourette’s was a reasonable description. let’s ask a lawyer !! nice try, but nonsense.

    it is not factually untrue, I’ve described all of your lies above, and they are just up there, scroll up, you can see them all. lie after lie after lie.

    keep trolling, little troll. wait a minute. you didn’t hurl an insult. good for you … you are learning …

  370. 370
    yorsubs

    I want no power over Jadehawk, I just want her to use British English. that’s all :(

    You were and are being the exact kind of person that I’ve always loathed and despised and spent most of my teenage years fantasizing about killing.

    you … want … to … murder … me … I don’t like death threats. that’s not decent.
    if this was said to Jen McCreight, if anyone said they fantasized about killing her, you would call it a death threat. so this IS a death threat. fantasizing about killing is making a clear statement that, given the opportunity you would murder me. again, if this was said to Jen McCreight you would call it a death threat. so this IS a death threat.

    wow, what a remarkably evil shits you trolls are. I love how it’s all out in the open on this forum for anyone to see how truly evil you are. everything from all of today in fact, all your foul insults etc, fantasizing about killing takes the biscuit though. wow. should i get a restraining order against you ? should I put in a complaint about this ? talking about my murder in that way is not cool.

  371. 371
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    anyway, guys, I’m back,

    Prima facie evidence you lie, bullshit, and your word is sewage. That’s why you have nothing cogent to say.

  372. 372
    LykeX

    Bullshit. Prozac is predominantly used for mental health disorders and your comment was aimed specifically at at that use. To claim anything else is an admission of your complete inability to communicate. If that’s the case, then you should still apologize. And then you should shut up.

  373. 373
    LykeX

    @yorsubs obviously

  374. 374
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    wow, what a remarkably evil shits you trolls are.

    Sorry fuckwitted troll. The regulars can’t troll you. You can only troll the regulars. . Sorry, you don’t get to make up your own definitions. What an abject non-thinker you are.

  375. 375
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Oh hooray yorsubs, what a good little troll you are!

    [pats yorsubs head]

    You learned how to make bold text, what a good diddums you are! Of course I could take some credit for the inspiration, but that’d be churlish. After all, leading the little ‘uns to learning is what adults are suppose to do.

    Oh, and look! An attempt at putting me in my place! Lovely work my darling, just lovely. Of course colouring within the lines of reality is a bit hard. But take heart diddums, just practice, practice, practice and you’ll get there.

    Now, isn’t it past your bedtime? Go brush your teeth, get your jammies on, tuck yourself in and I’ll be along shortly to read you a bedtime story …

  376. 376
    Jadehawk

    I am not disablist in any way. to describe prozac in that way is fine

    vs.

    you’ll get what I was saying. in time. with prozac :)

    and

    don’t worry, Jadehawk will continue to lie. :) it’s like Tourettes “you said it sexism is not real !” me: “no JadeHawk, I didn’t say that, you just made it up, calm down and take some prozac. there there, it’ll get better …”. Jadehawk: “you said something SEXIST !”, me : “no Jadehawk, I said prozac, it’s quite a different word. relax”.

    it is not factually untrue, I’ve described all of your lies above, and they are just up there, scroll up, you can see them all. lie after lie after lie.

    not a one. you’ve accused me of lying, but you’ve not shown me to have lied. Same as with accusing me of calling you a misogynist or sexist, it is in fact a lie by you. You’re welcome to walk that one back now, too.

    Of course, you won’t. You’re completely divorced from reality, and probably actually believe that quoting you accurately is lying.

  377. 377
    Jadehawk

    prozac is used in a non-mental health way by tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in america and europe
    http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0801/p498.html
    hmm…”non-mental health way” of using prozac… let’s see: premature ejaculation, migraines, pain from diabetic neuropathy, fibromyalgia, neurocardiogenic syncope.

    Yeah, we all know it’s none of those the troll accused me of. More lies from the disableist fuck.

  378. 378
    Jadehawk

    blockquote fail. first sentence is of course by yorsubs, trying to deny that he was being disableist

  379. 379
    LykeX

    Can we flush the turd down the toilet now? I think we’ve indulged the little shit long enough.

  380. 380
    yazikus

    if this was said to Jen McCreight

    I really dislike the way yorsubs obsessively uses Jen’s full name each time he presents his little hypothetical scenario. And that he was off to find her blog. What is his deal? I would definitely find it threatening if it were my name used over and over like that.
    Okay, so I counted. 23 times, that is how many times on this thread yorsubs has used her full name.

  381. 381
    yazikus

    To take that thought further, that is 23 times out of the 46 total times her full name has been used in 378 comments, including the OP.

  382. 382
    anteprepro

    yorsubs is trying as hard as xe can to fail as hard as possible, in as many possible directions at once. Name the topic and yorsubs and will be abysmally wrong, sling out pathetic insults, show off a little hypocrisy, bring up unrelated topics to be wrong about, and do it all in the most childish and quasi-literate fashion that xe can muster. The polar opposite of a Jack of All Trades.

  383. 383
    anteprepro

    fantasizing about killing is making a clear statement that, given the opportunity you would murder me.

    ….I don’t think that’s how “fantasizing” works.

    The polar opposite of a Jack of All Trades.

    To reference myself in responding to myself: I believe that might be “Jackass of All Trades”.

  384. 384
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    Oh, I missed a chance to poke a clueless, spittle-flecked pissant troll who couldn’t work out blockquotes?

    Shucks.

  385. 385
    boby

    @345

    Fine, take that as your definition. You still haven’t given an answer.

    I wasn’t aware of any question you asked me. Perhaps you thought you posed the following question earlier (if you did, I don’t remember):

    Suppose some person believes that a word is a slur and is marginalizing to them. Suppose also that the person who used the word did not intend it that way.
    So what is the effect in that case? The effect is that person is marginalized.

    I’d say that one effect is that the person experiences emotions commonly experienced when being marginalized, but to determine if the person was necessarily marginalized, let’s look at the definition I’m using again:

    “To relegate or confine to a lower or outer limit or edge, as of social standing.”

    For this to be fulfilled, there has to either be the intent or effect of lowering the person’s social status, which is something that happens among people. That a person experiences emotions commonly experienced when being marginalized, as much as that should be avoided, does not itself lower his/her social standing, and thus doesn’t fulfill the criteria for being marginalized in a given case. Thus, it is fair to say that person probably should have been more thoughtful about his/her choice of words so as to avoid inadvertently hurting the person, but it might be unfair to blame the speaker for marginalizing the person. However, if it has the effect of lowering the person’s social status, then the speaker did inadvertently marginalize the person.

    I do want to make it clear that people should make an effort to communicate charitably, which includes trying to avoid hurting or marginalizing others.

    Just to let you know, I may not be back here for some time, so if I don’t respond for a while that doesn’t mean I’m ignoring what you or others have to say.

  386. 386
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    I swear, why can’t trolls figure out blockquotes?

    …they’re not that hard.

  387. 387
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    yorsubs stamped xe’s little foot and with a quivering lower lip refused to use blockquote, because, because, reasons!

  388. 388
    John Morales

    [meta]

    Naked trollish caperings:

    @7:51 pm troll trolls thus:

    off to bed. it was fun talking and it was so nice to make friends with such open, good humoured, friendly, welcoming, not-uptight-at-all people (there may have been a tiny bit of irony in there!). was incredible what dedicated insistent violent hate-filled trolls y’all are, but I particularly enjoyed The Failed Suffragette’s Club (my gift to you).

    @8:38 pm troll trolls thus:

    keep trolling, little troll. wait a minute. you didn’t hurl an insult. good for you … you are learning …

  389. 389
    Jadehawk

    I’d say that one effect is that the person experiences emotions commonly experienced when being marginalized, but to determine if the person was necessarily marginalized, let’s look at the definition I’m using

    what is the difference between experiencing marginalization and being marginalized?

  390. 390
    Lofty

    Has anyone worked out if yoursoursob and Justicar are the same creep? But I suppose they’re a pretty common enough type.

  391. 391
    Amphiox

    [meta]

    What I find always amusing is how the MRA Slymepitters never cease their cargo culting of victimhood. Here we even see this soreyubs character trolling by trying to cargo cult being a victim of trolls…..

  392. 392
    chigau (違う)

    I’m glad I missed this one.

  393. 393
    yorsubs

    hello, my little pippete’s of hate. well, I hope none of you ruptured any blood vessels. you’ll need your hatred to continue to pretend that you are superior and show up the evil Patriarchy ! “yay, hate the Partriarchy ! yay, or just hate anything ! cos we are closet hate-mongers that fantazing about killing people !”

    Prima facie evidence you lie, bullshit, and your word is sewage. That’s why you have nothing cogent to say.”
    no, you’re a feces ;) heheehehe.
    there there, look at the big boy. oink oink …
    dude, I said I was going, then I came back. that’s hardly “sweage”. jeez. go and perform autoerotic asphyxiation, it might calm you down.

    Bullshit. Prozac is predominantly used for mental health disorders”
    so ? doesn’t mean I’m not wrong (and I’m not)

    and your comment was aimed specifically at at that use. To claim anything else is an admission of your complete inability to communicate.”
    aw look at the little hate-troll rage and whine. i claim otherwise, see about (and I’m rigt)

    If that’s the case, then you should still apologize. And then you should shut up.
    aw, you *need* to be right don’t you. it’s quite funny to watch. you are wrong. categoricalls. chucking your toys out of the pram won’t help. sorry.

    @yorsubs obviously
    thanks.

    wow, what a remarkably evil shits you trolls are.
    good use of language. you get points. i’m not a troll. look above, I simple exposed your hatred, lies, insults for what they are
    if you are a “movement” or “activists” then you are a movement of impotnence. all you want it to be

    Sorry fuckwitted troll. The regulars can’t troll you. You can only troll the regulars
    sorry man, you are a fuckshitted (that’s worse than fuckwitted by the way) troll.

    Sorry, you don’t get to make up your own definitions. What an abject non-thinker you are.
    what if I had a higher IQ and a better job, and was generally a better person than you in every way? wouldn’t that be interesting? (probably true).
    look, at least you have enough intellect to wipe your bum. be thankful for that much ?

    Oh hooray yorsubs, what a good little troll you are! [pats yorsubs head]
    thanks. but just curious, if anyone touched you in a public space, would you scream rape ? thought so …

    You learned how to make bold text, what a good diddums you are!
    Of course I could take some credit for the inspiration, but that’d be churlish. After all, leading the little ‘uns to learning is what adults are suppose to do.
    thanks pee-wee. god, I’ve been doing code for longer than you’ve been chucking dummies out of prams. but you go and eat a little dog poop as a prize.
    (wow, don’t you guys see what idiots you make of yourselves with all this …)

    Oh, and look! An attempt at putting me in my place! Lovely work my darling, just lovely.
    “FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist)” wow, such a flowery, name, at once both witty, and with such cool references. I think your name sums up this “community” and “movement” quite well. empty heads, trying to be intellectual, failing miserably at every hate-filled step.

    I am not disablist in any way. to describe prozac in that way is fine
    it is not factually untrue, I’ve described all of your lies above, and they are just up there, scroll up, you can see them all. lie after lie after lie.

    not a one. you’ve accused me of lying, but you’ve not shown me to have lied.

    this was the core lie at 231:
    I said the opposite like 40 times. I think that Jen has been getting abuse, and I think that sexist abuse is NOT a joke. I’ve been MORE than clear on that.
    vs.
    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

    so you deceitfully misapplied it to something else.
    so the first quite was correct and true, because that is my view.
    and the second quote was correct and true, because the second quote was referring *only* to Integralmath’s post (which was hardly abusive, just ridiculing her, as I discussed).
    you try to say this is a contradiction, but that’s just a deliberate lie. there’s no overlap (after this point, after you trolled in this way, it made it ok for me to really lay into your trolling. to deal with trolls effectively, it’s best to just reflect back at them their own hatred and lies.
    you lied, deliberately.

    Same as with accusing me of calling you a misogynist or sexist, it is in fact a lie by you. You’re welcome to walk that one back now, too.
    it was someone else that called me a misogynist. ridiculing ludicrous pompous fools will never make me a misogynist.
    no need to walk it back, as I talked about it above.

    Of course, you won’t. You’re completely divorced from reality, and probably actually believe that quoting you accurately is lying.
    i acknowledged it above. wow dude, who’s divorced from reality !

    prozac is used in a non-mental health way by tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in america and europe
    http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0801/p498.html
    hmm…”non-mental health way” of using prozac… let’s see: premature ejaculation, migraines, pain from diabetic neuropathy, fibromyalgia, neurocardiogenic syncope.
    among other things.

    Yeah, we all know it’s none of those the troll accused me of. More lies from the disableist fuck.
    that’s a misapplied word

    Can we flush the turd down the toilet now? I think we’ve indulged the little shit long enough.
    big words from a little person. hey, would it be abusive if I told Jen McCreight to shove her head down into the turd before flushing (do you like what I’m doing, so above a little hate-troll told me to do that, but of course, if it was said to Jen McCreight, the hate-trolls would say that I was being abusive right ?).

    I really dislike the way yorsubs obsessively uses Jen’s full name each time he presents his little hypothetical scenario.
    I really dislike how boring you are, but you are hilarious

    And that he was off to find her blog. What is his deal? I would definitely find it threatening if it were my name used over and over like that.
    my deal is exposing liars.
    so this was said to me, but if I put it on that blog, how many of you would scream and howl ?
    yep, thought so. Jen McCreight. Jen McCreight. quick, up the count (it’s a bit obsessive the way you count all these things no ?) ! :-p

    yorsubs is trying as hard as xe can to fail as hard as possible
    standing up, having a great time. but you keep trying dearie.

    fantasizing about killing is making a clear statement that, given the opportunity you would murder me.
    ….I don’t think that’s how “fantasizing” works.
    honesty test: if this was said on JEN MCCREIGHT’s blog, you would deem it to be a death threat. it would be added to the list.
    hence, you are all functional hypocrite’s. if someone was to go onto Jen’s blog and type “Jen, I fantazing about killing you” you would all scream that this was death threats from the Patriarchy. now, I know I’m right, and you know I’m right. you are hypocrites.

    To reference myself in responding to myself: I believe that might be “Jackass of All Trades”.
    Oh, I missed a chance to poke a clueless, spittle-flecked pissant troll who couldn’t work out blockquotes?
    oh poppets, you made JOKE. good for you ! :) (i should stop using blockquotes just to annoy you, that’s generally how I deal with trolls)

    I swear, why can’t trolls figure out blockquotes?
    …they’re not that hard.
    ok, firstly, blockquotes are easy and I explained above why I don’t use them. secondly, I’ve in no way been a troll. I simply exposed liars and reflected your vapid hate back onto you.

    yorsubs stamped xe’s little foot and with a quivering lower lip refused to use blockquote, because, because, reasons!
    xe ? well, evidence, common sense, honesty you mean, but keep taking that IQ test. your score may go up !

    what is the difference between experiencing marginalization and being marginalized?
    interesting point. ok, so a group of fools clings together, calls everyone members of the Patriarchy and howls at the moon.
    I think what you have there is self-imposed marginalization. hmm, psedo-intellectuals are funny.

    Has anyone worked out if yoursoursob and Justicar are the same creep? But I suppose they’re a pretty common enough type.
    oh, you called me a creep ! if anyone calls JEN MCCREIGHT a creep, what do you call them !!! that’s right, you call them a sexist misogynist bigot. hence, you are a hypocrite.

    What I find always amusing is how the MRA Slymepitters
    accusing me of being an “MRA”. empty heads trolling like mad, trying to pour out their own hatred onto others. you need to troll I guess, to make yourself feel better about yourself ?

    never cease their cargo culting of victimhood. Here we even see this soreyubs character trolling by trying to cargo cult being a victim of trolls…..
    ok, so I was honest and sincere, and a bunch of trolls poured disgusting insults at me, and one told me they fantasized about killing me, while at the same time, if any of those went on to JEN MCCREIGHTs (I’m capitalising to annoy that person that gets upset at it, and I mention Jen McCreight to annoy that person that counts everything in his life).

    I’m glad I missed this one.
    why, what would you have done if you were there ? oh yeah, poured insults and venom ?, i.e. just been another troll spewing mis-applied hatred.
    that’s ok, you are just another carbon copy of your friends, you would have tried to be pithy and remarkably intellectual yes ? tee-hee, it would’ve been so fun to have another mental giant to content with (yawn).

    that you people label yourselves as morally superior, is laughable … I’m just one person, but standing up to a bunch of hate-mongering trolls was quite easy.
    if any of the above comments that YOU made, were posted on Jen McCreight’s (or one of the other pseudo-celebrities that you worship in place of gods) you WOULD call that abuse. it’s massive hypocrisy.
    I’m an atheist, and simply want equality in all things for all humanity. you people simply want to HATE and ACCUSE (and try to pretend to the world that you are really really smart). you pick up on everything and spew hate at everything. it’s just hate-mongering for the sake of it, and a huge superiority complex to boot.
    BUT, this is all you have, this is what you guys do !! THIS is your “Movement” and “Activism” ? jeez.
    so, again, if someone goes to Jen McCreight’s blog and says “I fantazise about killing Jen McCreight” you will immediately call this a death threat and put it on your list of “people who have sent death and/or rape threats to Jen McCreight”. but you do it to others, and it’s NOT a death threat. your hypocrisy is spine-tinglingly wonderful.
    so, I’ve exposed lie after lie, blatant hypocrisy about death threats, and empty “activism” … you’re welcome, it’s just a service that I provide :)
    this song by would tell you a lot about yourselves if you weren’t too self-obsessed to think you better than everyone around you …
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTfOB_TBBew
    it’s a song about religion, but the cult-like fanaticism of your trolling and hatred is suspiciously religious in it’s venom (“do what we say, or else ! we will suffer no dissent !”)
    and now … “unleash the TROLLS !” … (they can’t help themselves of course, more “no, YOU are a disablist cos I said so ! so there !!!”) etc …

  394. 394
    yorsubs

    oh, a bunch of typos in the above, but well, you are able to easily to see the meaning (the number of typo’s I make is in direct proportion to the number of trolls I have to deal with). I’m sure you are not so petty and crass as to howl about a few typos and try and make out that is the end of the world are you … I mean, only “trolls” would do that, wouldn’t they ? … oh, but the delicious irony is lost on the weak of mind, you guys will never make it through Jedi school … ;) ok. breakfast. yum :)

  395. 395
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    So much wrong to choose from! I think this one’s the best.

    …my deal is exposing liars…

    Well, you’re certainly doing a good job of exposing yourself as one. But feel free to keep on falling face-first onto your keyboard and smashing out long, spittle-flecked walls of text that only serve to reveal just how much of a snivelling little creep you are.

    But here’s a point which you need to consider, even though given your current fury I doubt you’ll be capable of taking it on board: Jen McCreight posts under her own name while you do not. Perhaps when (if) you work out the significance of that and reconsider the original post with that context in mind, you may be able to grasp why exactly your poorly-thought-out blubbering has seen the regulars here take turns at handing your ass to you.

  396. 396
    yorsubs

    Well, you’re certainly doing a good job of exposing yourself as one.
    in what way ? I exposed Jadehawk pretty easily.
    do you post under your own name hunny-bunny ? oops, no, didn’t think so ;)
    are you capable of taking that on board ? oops, nope, didn’t think so … good luck “Wowbagger, Designated Snarker”. nice that you use your real name. again, the irony and hypocrisy is delicious. I mean you know it’s true, but the denial is delicious.
    wow, pure genius from “Wowbagger, Designated Snarker” who only ever uses his real name in forums. well done, your intellect really shone through there ? ;)

  397. 397
    yorsubs

    but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt because I’m honest and I don’t lie or misrepresent others. I *do* know what you mean about this woman using her real name and how that can be a very bad thing if someone exposed her location. However, I already expressed my agreement to that many many many times above, and said it’s wrong, but also pointed out many important corollaries.

    if you were honest, you would have considered that before making a fool of yourself and letting me hand your ass to you I guess …

  398. 398
    mildlymagnificent

    I think someone must own a lot of cats, undisciplined cats, that wander all over the keyboard.

    For pity’s sake. Someone take them a few containers of cream. They’ll all go away and then they’ll spend a goodly amount of time washing and preening. So we’ll get a break.

  399. 399
    ChasCPeterson

    I quite enjoy dealing with the gibbering of fools. my girlfriend has been laughing her ass off about this. it’s been enjoyable for both of us, like watching dogs chasing their tails

    it’s like he’s plagiarizing straight from Blog-Trolling for Dummies.

    my little pippete’s of hate

    although that one has me stumped.

  400. 400
    markbrown

    mildlymagnificent

    I think someone must own a lot of cats, undisciplined cats, that wander all over the keyboard.

    For pity’s sake. Someone take them a few containers of cream. They’ll all go away and then they’ll spend a goodly amount of time washing and preening. So we’ll get a break.

    I’m fairly certain my cats are capable of writing more nuanced, thought-provoking messages than yorsubs when walking across my keyboard. They don’t abuse the English language quite so much either, and make my eyes want to bleed.

  401. 401
    markbrown

    urgh, borkquote :-(

    The last paragraph was mine, not a quote.

  402. 402
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    yorsubs:

    I exposed Jadehawk pretty easily.

    Except you didn’t. She quoted you, numerous times, contradicting yourself severely; it’s there for everyone to see. When asked to quote in return, you provided nothing.

    do you post under your own name hunny-bunny ? oops, no, didn’t think so ;)

    You…had to think about whether that was my real name? Yikes. Looks like I was overestimating you.

    But, that aside, you aren’t too bright are you? It’s quite obvious I’m not criticising people for using ‘nyms (I possess a measure of self-awareness well beyond your own; not that that’s much to brag about, though, given your floundering here), I’m criticising someone using a ‘nym for likening their being insulted in a blog post to someone with a real name being threatened. If you can’t grasp why someone who posts under their real name has more to be concerned about than someone who doesn’t, you really shouldn’t be commenting unsupervised.

    again, the irony and hypocrisy is delicious.

    Your taste buds are lacking perception in the same way your mind is lacking insight, since – as I’ve noted – you’ve failed to understand what my comment about anonymity was referring to; ergo, not hypocrisy. So, perhaps the taste of humble pie I’m serving you will help there.

    And you should probably stop taking lessons in what irony is from Alanis Morissette and try a dictionary instead.

    but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt because I’m honest and I don’t lie or misrepresent others.

    Except this page is chock full of examples of you lying, and then lying about lying, and then lying some more. So, that’s another lie.

    if you were honest, you would have considered that before making a fool of yourself and letting me hand your ass to you I guess …

    Keep on spluttering! I hope you occasionally tip your keyboard on its side to let the spittle drain away. Too much isn’t good for it, I fear.

  403. 403
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    my little pippete’s of hate. well, I hope none of you ruptured any blood vessels. you’ll need your hatred

    Does yorsubs know the difference between a noun & a verb? Inquiring minds want to know.

  404. 404
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    I see yorsubs continued to be a pillock after I left. Judging by their pathetically juvenile attempt to make it look as though I agreed with them @#235, I think they actually got worse.

  405. 405
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    Crip Dyke wrote:

    Does yorsubs know the difference between a noun & a verb? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Let’s not rush him; he’s got ass vs. elbow to get through first – though I’m not holding my breath.

  406. 406
    PZ Myers

    YORSUBS: Congratulations. You’ve learned that being a patronizing jackass with a willingness to actively distort comments is an effective trolling technique. So you’re at roughly the intellectual level of a spoiled 11 year old. You’re done trolling this thread, though. Any more of your contributions here will lead to you immediate banning.

    Knowing trolls as I do, I predict that this will be irresistable bait: yorsubs will not be able to restrain himself, will comment here again just to get banned, and then he will caper off, proud of his “accomplishment”.

  407. 407
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Jebus, our little immature troll still hasn’t provided a link to any evidence. How can it be taken seriously? It’s unsupported word is sewage, going directly to the detox center. Once that is removed, nothing is left. If MRA fuckwits want to be taken seriously, they have an evidenced debate. And their OPINION never is or will be evidence.

  408. 408
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    PZ – up so early? I feel sorry for you. Hope you at least have some strong caffeine and some interesting work ahead.

    I’m still trying to get back to sleep before I drive the girls in to school and come home to pack, lift, and arrange heavy things. Sigh. How did I come to miss law school so quickly? It seemed so stressful at the time…

  409. 409
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @Chas C Peterson

    I quite enjoy dealing with the gibbering of fools. my girlfriend has been laughing her ass off about this. it’s been enjoyable for both of us, like watching dogs chasing their tails

    it’s like he’s plagiarizing straight from Blog-Trolling for Dummies.

    He must have copied it from somewhere, there’s no way any woman would be able to put up with yorsub’s idiocy.

  410. 410
    PZ Myers

    I’m always up at this hour!

  411. 411
    yorsubs

    yawn, I’m hardly woken up ! this is fun …

    sorry, I hate cats man. I know a woman who hates men and talks about some fantasy construct called the Patriarchy, she owns a lot of cats oddly enough. does she count ?

    although that one has me stumped.
    you are a stump.

    231 Jadehawk:
    I said the opposite like 40 times. I think that Jen has been getting abuse, and I think that sexist abuse is NOT a joke. I’ve been MORE than clear on that.
    vs.
    it’s not abuse, it’s just ridicule.

    ok, so I’ll go through it slowly, like a dummy can understand.
    second quote was *specifically* about one video. that’s right, just one video (go check, you’ll be amazed at what truth can do ;))
    first quote is my opiniont that I think that Jen has been getting abuse and that sexist abuse is NOT a joke.
    so, to add them together, first quote, fine, and second quote was about that one specific video. also fine.
    dishonest taking one quote out of context and putting it beside an unrelated quote. no contradiction. honest and correct on my part and a lie (Troll Fail) from Jadehawk
    are you man or woman enough to admit it ? nope … god, I hope not, cos you just continue to show yourself up.

    You…had to think about whether that was my real name? Yikes. Looks like I was overestimating you.
    always delights and amuses me that sarcasm and irony are impossible for Americans to understand …

    I possess a measure of self-awareness well beyond your own
    GO YOU EINSTEIN !!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, what a pompous clown ! :-D as I said, a bunch of twits imagining and dreaming about their own self-importance.
    I have a good honours degree from a good uni, and I’ve run 5 companies. score consistently high in IQ. I do alright.
    clearly though, I’m not an intellectual heavyweight like you “all hail Wowbagger, Self-awareness Guru Extraordinaire !”. ;)

    If you can’t grasp why someone who posts under their real name has more to be concerned about than someone who doesn’t, you really shouldn’t be commenting unsupervised.
    you really should read my follow up post that I sent a full 10 minutes before you posted this where I mention that.
    wow, massive Troll Fail by Douchebagger

    Your taste buds are lacking perception
    huh, are you hitting on my taste buds. oh, no, you are just being pseudo-intellectual and weird ? cos I was gonna say, that’s definitely gotta be the creepiest come on of all time.
    you should try that line on Jen McCreight, and see how quickly you are accused of rape ;)s
    but. seriously. taste buds lacking perception ? wow, so perception is in the taste buds ? you believe that perception comes from the tongue ? brilliant. clearly you are a genius ahead of your time …

    Except this page is chock full of examples of you lying, and then lying about lying, and then lying some more.
    except … you can’t show one. not ONE. real damn shame that all your Rage Trolling gives you is impotence. good luck in curing that …

    Keep on spluttering! I hope you occasionally tip your keyboard on its side to let the spittle drain away. Too much isn’t good for it, I fear.
    oh, so pithy, so droll ! the ladies and men, and other genders, all swooned and came in their pants a little at that one. seriously, can you hear yourself !?!? just imagine this spotty like twerp chortling to himself at his amazing put downs. man … wake up to your pseudo-intellectual crap. there are real people in the world, not burdened by all this Patriarcy crap.

    noted you didn’t address any REAL points in what I said. a person of intellect would do that I guess, instead of just trolling away like you are, keep on trolling “Taste Buds Fetishist” !!! :)

    you are indecent, as well as dishonest in the extreme.

  412. 412
    yorsubs

    204 John Moralies

    I feel you should put your head into a toilet-bowl right after someone has taken a big dump, and keep it in there.

    356 LykeX

    You were and are being the exact kind of person that I’ve always loathed and despised and spent most of my teenage years fantasizing about killing.

    ok kiddies, here is a thought experiment … let’s take your above troll comments, and hypothetically apply them to one of your ‘god-celebrities’ (Jen McCreight, but not her exclusively, it could be anyone from the Pantheon. oh, and I disguised the names to protect the hypocrites):

    204 John MoreShite

    I feel Jen McCreight should put her head into a toilet-bowl right after someone has taken a big dump, and keep it in there.

    356 ILikeXtraPee

    Jen McCreight is the exact kind of person that I’ve always loathed and despised and spent most of my teenage years fantasizing about killing.

    ok, so if you are honest (hahahahahaha!) here, you would of course agree that if anyone said this to one your celebrity-goddess would be “a sexist misogynist fucking pig scumbag” (or along those lines, but sexist and misogynist would almost certainly be used). so John, don’t go saying things like that to people, or you know what you are ! oh wait, you already say stuff like that all the time ?. oh, ok !
    The second one would quite simply be described as “a death threat”.

    but your “Movement” is not honest, so you don’t have the guts to simply say “yes, what you say here is correct, if the above was posted on Jen’s blog we would call that a death threat”, and if I waited a few months, then posted that second comment on Jen McCreigth’s site (or on any one of the others in your Pantheon), I would be *swamped* with apoplectic Rage Trolls saying that I am making death threats and making demands that I go to prison for abuse.
    So. You know it. I know it. All the people laughing at you know it, and that is called “hypocrisy” (and it is so blatant that it makes handing your asses to you just that bit too easy). same for both comments. both utterly hypocritical and exposes the kind of “Professional Victim-hood” that you are utterly and shamefully in the business of. some “movement” guys … some “activism” … ;)

    I’ll just leave your hypocrisy for you to enjoy ….

  413. 413
    PZ Myers

    As I predicted, yorsubs has gone splat.

  414. 414
    John Morales

    [meta]

    Predictable troll’s behaviour was predicted by PZ.

    (No surprise there)

  415. 415
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I’ll just leave your hypocrisy for you to enjoy ….

    Since you never linked to any third party evidence, your OPINION is sewage not the be read, you did nothing, showed nothing, proved nothing. Typical of loudmouthed fuckwits. Except show why you and your buddies are folks who should be quarantined from civilized society.

  416. 416
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    always delights and amuses me that sarcasm and irony are impossible for Americans to understand …

    Heh. Here are three hints for you: criticise, flavour, aluminium. Let’s see if you can work it out from that. Let me guess – you like to tell people you’re perceptive? If so, you should stop.

    score consistently high in IQ.

    That you aren’t aware of how little that actually means (beyond being good at IQ tests) is a far better indicator of your intellect than the number you value so highly.

    I have a good honours degree from a good uni, and I’ve run 5 companies.

    Charles Ponzi ran a company. For a while.

    but. seriously. taste buds lacking perception ? wow, so perception is in the taste buds ? you believe that perception comes from the tongue ? brilliant. clearly you are a genius ahead of your time …

    Oh, dear. Sorry, ‘I’ve run 5 companies and have a super-high IQ, just ask my mum’, the perception of taste is. Do you not realise that that’s what ‘delicious’ refers to, or are you so lackwitted you didn’t realise you used the word first? I guess given that you can’t seem to read your own words in any comment that doesn’t have your name at the top, that’s a distinct possibility. Here’s your comment again; I’ve put the important word in bold:

    again, the irony and hypocrisy is delicious.

    So, big time fail on that one. Do better – if you can.

    except … you can’t show one. not ONE.

    True, in a sense. I can show at least four, and then I stopped bothering: comments 231, 299, 314 and 277.

    there are real people in the world, not burdened by all this Patriarcy crap.

    Well, it took a while, but the misogynist colours (there’s another tip for you, if you can remember all the way back to the top of my comment) eventually shone through.

    noted you didn’t address any REAL points in what I said.

    That would imply you raised a real point. You haven’t.

  417. 417
    blf
    I doubt you have any *clew* just how wrong you are.

    oh dear, a typo from someone else ! quick, jump on them ! ;) is that “clue”, or “claw”, what the hell is that word. “clew” !?!? shocking !

    clew n. & v. Variant of clue — http://www.thefreedictionary.com/clew

    Simple example of what I suspected: Stupid yorsubs knows nothing about the Internet. In this self-inflicted case, using the web to lookup words you’re not sure of.

    Also notice stupid yorsubs complete ducking of the point. Bye-bye, stupid yorsubs, the arsehole. (I wonder if stupid yorsubs the arsehole will take the hint and lookup arse?)

  418. 418
    Raging Bee

    If you read my posts carefully, I think you would have understood that my discussion was about…

    …absolutely nothing relevant to the rest of us, or to the original subject of PZ’s post.

    I’ve read your comments carefully enough to see that they’re nothing but the same old diversionary threadjacking BS we always see from self-satisfied twits trying to pretend they have some special genius the rest of us don’t understand. Seriously, little man, what does ANY of your pompous-assed rambling have to do with the original subject of the post?

    If you don’t want to talk about the original subject, then why are you here at all?

  419. 419
    SallyStrange

    356 ILikeXtraPee
    Jen McCreight is the exact kind of person that I’ve always loathed and despised and spent most of my teenage years fantasizing about killing.

    I don’t get it. 356 was a post by yorsubs, and post 412, where he puts that phrase in block quotes, is the only point (til now) where that phrase appears in that thread. Yorsubs used to fantasize about killing people like Jen? What the fuck is going on?

    Or was going on, I should say. Whatever. That whole thing was just weird.

  420. 420
    chigau (違う)

    aaaaw
    And right after yorsubs learned to blockquote.

  421. 421
    LykeX

    you … want … to … murder … me … I don’t like death threats. that’s not decent.

    No, I don’t. I will recognize that my comment was poorly made. It wasn’t clear what I meant and it could be taken as a threat. I’m sorry for that. It was my mistake. To be clear, I don’t want to kill you. I don’t even fantasize about it. I’m not a teenager anymore.

    The loathing remains, though. I consider you a sadist. I see you as a playground bully; a snivelling little shit who’s so lacking in any admirable personal qualities that the only way you can find any enjoyment in life is to cause other people pain.

    I think you’re actively making the world a worse place. You’re deliberately harming people for your personal amusement and I think that is loathsome.

  422. 422
    Raging Bee

    I’m sure you’re sitting there giggling to yourself about how well your trolling efforts are going. That’s not a counter-point to what I’m saying. It illustrates what I’m saying. You’re using other people as tools for your own amusement. That’s not right. It’s actually quite disgusting.

    Which is why PZ should have banned him a LOOONG time before he actually did. Banning people for differing views is not always right, but keeping childish people from degrading adult conversations is always necessary.

  423. 423
    PZ Myers

    Rumors to the contrary, I’m not usually in a rush to ban anyone.

    By the way, relevant to the OP, Justicar’s identity has been tracked down. The stupid git left clues all over the internet — using his own logic, I ought to tell him what an ass he is and recite all the evidence that leads directly to him.

    It seems he gets his boring style from narrating WOW videos on youtube…

  424. 424
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    I for one got that LykeX, or at least I assumed it from context of your comment. But thanks for clarifying nonetheless, it’s a mark of a rational adult to straighten such out even after it’s become moot.

    Of course smug little shits like yorsubs are incapable of seeing context. It’s like they build a picture of the world in their heads and hold fast to that picture no matter what. There’s no point in trying to reason with them because everything that conforms to that picture is kept, and everything that doesn’t is either ignored or distorted until it seems to fit.

    I can only imagine what it must be like to live like that. I’m sure it feels great to never doubt, but that inability to step outside oneself and question one’s own behaviour has to leave marks. A bird flying around in a hall full of funhouse mirrors might be entertained for a while by the shiny refections, but you’d think that smacking beak-first into the glass over and over would eventually get tiring.

  425. 425
    SallyStrange

    Ah, see, if the trolling troll had been barely competent at copy-pasting, I would not have been so confused. Sorry, I didn’t read the entire thread–too annoyingly repetitive and boring. Thanks for clarifying, LykeX. To be clear, yes, “I used to fantasize about killing people like you” could be regarded as a threat and if someone said that to Jen, I would object. I’m glad LykeX apologized.

  426. 426
    Raging Bee

    …using his own logic, I ought to tell him what an ass he is and recite all the evidence that leads directly to him.

    Or maybe forward it to his employer and see how the “magic of the marketplace” deals with him. Perhaps a credible threat of such action will induce him to act a little more grownup, as such threats seem to have done with Abbie Smith and John C. Welch.

  427. 427
    PZ Myers

    You counter your own argument. Neither Welch nor Smith show any maturity despite being “out”.

    I’m not going to his employer. But I think it’s fair that the police be informed of the identity of a stalker.

  428. 428
    anteprepro

    Glad xe got banned (relatively) quickly. Between the unwarranted snotty tone, the garbled grammar and spelling, the persistent desire to quote others without making clear what the quotes are, and the complete inability to use anything approaching logic, yorsubs was a migraine made flesh.

  429. 429
    Raging Bee

    Neither Welch nor Smith show any maturity despite being “out”.

    I don’t follow either of those two jackasses, so I could be wrong here; but I thought both of them had at least cleaned up their act in some forums as a result of getting some pushback of this sort.

  430. 430
    PZ Myers

    He was Dunning-Krueger made flesh. He seemed to have a very high opinion of his own intelligence, while writing so poorly that I would have flunked anyone who turned in an essay with that kind of gibberish.

  431. 431
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    There’s no point in trying to reason with them because everything that conforms to that picture is kept, and everything that doesn’t is either ignored or distorted until it seems to fit.

    It’s like giving a kid a 1000-piece puzzle and a craft knife. Analysing all the pieces properly and putting them where they actually go is too much effort and probably beyond their capabilities, so they sit there happily discarding some pieces and cutting others into shapes that seem to fit… until they run out of pieces and find that the picture is incomplete, and they’ve been sat their for hours shredding their fingers with a craft knife just to make themself look an idiot. .

  432. 432
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    Gar, here be Borkquotes! Thar she blows!

  433. 433
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    But, but, but, PZ! He has an honours degree in physics and he’s owned five, FIVE, companies!!! Surely that must count towards at least a re-write?

  434. 434
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Ha! And then they wander around dripping blood on everything and getting hostile at anyone who suggests that maybe a bandage might be helpful.

  435. 435
    Scr... Archivist

    Ah, l’esprit de l’escalier:

    “All yorsub are belong to us. You are on the way to destruction.”

    He was eventually dispatched by every moving ‘PZIG’.

  436. 436
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    To be fair, PZ, I flub spelling on the internet, too. No one proof reads comments (or at least very few do). I’ve actually had praised comments leave out a vital word important to meaning…it was almost always easily understood from context, but still.

    He’s annoying and asinine, but I don’t assume that I know the extent of his spelling abilities from his posts here.

    On the other hand, I see you as asserting that the degree of garbled writing is excessive for someone posting here, and except when I’m both angry and writing in the middle of the night, I never write *that* poorly. Combined with his very high opinion of himself (and worse – of IQ tests!) I must concede your point: he has Dunning-Krueger Effect (Lower Half) written all over him.

    Which brings me to a near-totally off topic observation: I wonder if part of the problem that some have with FtB is that the Dunning-Krueger Effect (Upper Half) is less in evidence here? When people know something here, we tend more often to speak boldly to the full extent of our knowledge. When Dietwald was stinking up a thread with his libertarianism, I used my undergrad econ (which wasn’t even a minor) and a single year of law school to flush a number of his arguments down the toilet & I didn’t feel any compunction at all that I might be inflating – for instance – the complexities of international law to make a point. I can’t *know* what others know and to what extent they pull or don’t their punches, but I don’t see a lot of wording like, “My specialty is historical analysis of Keynesianism, but if I understand the research on bank panics in the 19th century correctly…”

    While it’s certainly true that people use swear words and unkind turns of phrase, those are used all over the internet. Certainly online gaming is a hobby of a number of slymepitters, but they aren’t up in arms about the hypocrisy of forming teams then killing the esprit de corps with insults. No, they are up in arms about our insistence on not participating in structural oppression while responding to ridiculous arguments by saying things like “fuck off”. Not only do they not realize this is not hypocritical, but it’s clear that even their outrage at hypocrisy is selectively focused…on the place where they get their arguments handed to them.

    I think that quite a few of them are of average intelligence but good study habits or of above average intelligence (with or without them) but – in either case – have had their limitations politely avoided when reached. Professors or peers encountering bad arguments might be likely to say things like, “Well, I haven’t actually studied the bank panics of the post-reconstruction period, but I do see a potential stumbling block in your argument where you failed to define your methodology or provide your raw data, so it would be hard for anyone to agree or disagree with you in follow on research,” …

    instead of saying…

    “There’s no indication in here that you did anything other than make up data and then spin it to your predetermined conclusion. This so-called study is not even wrong.”

    It’s the Upper Half Dunning Krueger that makes the lower half possible…and the Horde doesn’t play that game.

  437. 437
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Thumper, #431

    Oh, it’s better than that (by which I mean worse). The kid then, post facto having originally been intending to work out the actual puzzle, realizes that while it’s not put together the way others would do it, this only makes it unique! “I’m a genius – the only one to ever put the puzzle together like this,” the child cries, defiantly, at every person who doesn’t praise the work.

  438. 438
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    I’ve…also never understood the “I ran $n$ companies!” brag.

    Um. What happened to the first $n-1$?

    *crosses fingers, hopes the LaTeX fairy flies in

  439. 439
    hyperdeath

    If you know who Justicar is, out him. Playing “I know where you live” games from behind a pseudonym utterly forfeits any moral right to privacy.

  440. 440
    PZ Myers

    That’s easy to say, but one thing we know about these clowns is that they have no sense of proportion: the retaliation would be extraordinary, and it wouldn’t be aimed at me, male and safe and secure in my little town on the edge of nowhere, but against easier targets in the Seattle area. Against women. So no, I’m not going to do that.

  441. 441
    Anthony K

    That’s easy to say, but one thing we know about these clowns is that they have no sense of proportion: the retaliation would be extraordinary, and it wouldn’t be aimed at me, male and safe and secure in my little town on the edge of nowhere, but against easier targets in the Seattle area. Against women. So no, I’m not going to do that.

    That’s pretty sensible, PZ. As unfortunate as it is, as we’ve seen, it’s a bad idea to get into a pissing contest with people who don’t have much else in life to occupy them.

  442. 442
    Raging Bee

    So in other words, you’ve admitted that Justicar can continue to get away with his harassment because he has hostages. (And what would he do to those hostages that’s not like what he’s already doing?)

    I agree with your wanting to avoid doing anything that will result in harm being done to non-involved parties; but given the mental instability that people like Justicar show every day, I suspect that restraint doesn’t prevent them from lashing out, it only postpones it. Sooner or later, he will get worse than he currently is, just like that Markuze guy.

  443. 443
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Absolutely not, Raging Bee.

    Just like PZ (or I) would not file a police report about someone else’s rape or violent partner, we wouldn’t take the tack you’re suggesting.

    He absolutely cannot act with impunity – but accountability’s form and extent must be determined with input from the person who has the most to lose from the accountability process. And that’s not PZ.

  444. 444
    hyperdeath

    I agree that I’m not on the front line here, and that it’s easy to be resolute in the face of hypothetic danger, but…

    I have to concur with what Raging Bee says. Restraint won’t prevent extra harassment. It will only delay it, while providing them with an advantage in the meantime. Having the moral highground doesn’t count for much either. They see decency as a weakness to be exploited.

    Perhaps it’s time for the FTBullies to live up their name? I wonder how many “brave heros” will remain, when they’re suddenly faced with targets that hit back?

  445. 445
    ChasCPeterson

    I flub spelling on the internet, too. No one proof reads comments (or at least very few do). I’ve actually had praised comments leave out a vital word important to meaning…it was almost always easily understood from context, but still.
    He’s annoying and asinine, but I don’t assume that I know the extent of his spelling abilities from his posts here.
    On the other hand, I see you as asserting that the degree of garbled writing is excessive for someone posting here, and except when I’m both angry and writing in the middle of the night, I never write *that* poorly.

    Thanks for your comment.
    In your capacity as The Measure of All Things, I hope you will feel free to continue instructing the rest of us how to think about stuff more like you.

  446. 446
    PZ Myers

    The only response I can make as a third party is to act as a witness. If any of the people targeted by scum like Justicar want to take a stand, I’ll support them.

    Until then, unfortunately, I can’t push them forward to take the flak. Especially since we already know the flak will be heavy, even heavier than it has been so far…because the one thing cowards like Justicar and the other slyme fear most is that someone might actually hold them accountable for what they say, and they’ll fight back against any threat to their anonymous little spider holes.

  447. 447
    UnknownEric the Apostate

    It’s funny how they like to call FtB a “hive mind,” yet whenever one of those repugant Limbaugh-wanna-bes finds their way over here, they say exactly the same things in exactly the same way. Same shit, different ‘nym.

  448. 448
    anteprepro

    It’s funny how they like to call FtB a “hive mind,” yet whenever one of those repugant Limbaugh-wanna-bes finds their way over here, they say exactly the same things in exactly the same way. Same shit, different ‘nym.

    I suppose they get an exemption. Thoughtlessly regurgitating talking points in no ways suggest that they actually have a “mind” worth speaking of, though “hive” does describe the places they’ve infested rather accurately.

  449. 449
    Raging Bee

    Especially since we already know the flak will be heavy, even heavier than it has been so far…

    To what degree do we “know” this? If we have specific knowledge of what the ‘pittiful ones might do, then we’ll be better able to counter it.

    And once they’ve done it, they may no longer be able to threaten to do it.

  450. 450
    David Marjanović

    I’ve never before seen a troll who admitted to trolling so many times.

    “Clue: the Nerd is the Redhead’s husband.”
    did you mean “clew” ? :)

    No, I’m not blf. :-|

    Eppure si piange.

    I needed Google Translate for that one. It was worth it.

    poop regularly

    What nonsense. PZ, I want Comic Sans back.

    Eppur e dici che non sei un troll.

    + 1

    …does anyone else find yorsubs‘s constant references to his girlfriend…kind of creepy?

    It’s yet another attempt at trolling: he was assuming we’re all sad singles and wanted to rub that in our faces; also, “the lurkers support me in e-mail”.

    I’ll just say that an Italian girlfriend who spells herself with K is most likely made up, which has all kinds of… fascinating implications. *pretends once again to be able to raise right eyebrow independently of the left*

    I just thought, “hell, let the angry troll rant at my non-quoted text some more”. it’s not “don’t wanna”, it was “let’s see how angry the trolls get”. predictable as clockwork. seriously, I’m not the troll by any measure.

    I laughed in meatspace when I arrived at that last sentence.

    Popcorn for everyone!!! :-D

    I just laughed again :-D

    I want no power over Jadehawk, I just want her to use British English. that’s all :(

    “Right. When you will be only a little older, you will doubtless learn the advantage of minding your own business. If you will be so good as to turn your head slightly to the left, you will see the door. I wish you good-afternoon.”
    – one of W. Somerset Maugham’s characters in a novel

    Sorry fuckwitted troll. The regulars can’t troll you. You can only troll the regulars. . Sorry, you don’t get to make up your own definitions. What an abject non-thinker you are.

    No, it’s not by definition impossible that regulars troll a n00b. That’s not how “troll” is defined. There are people who have trolled the blogs they owned!

    I swear, why can’t trolls figure out blockquotes?

    Oh, this one has figured them out; witness his use of italics. He refused to use blockquotes in order to troll us; above I quote the passage where he said so.

    what is the difference between experiencing marginalization and being marginalized?

    Magic intent !!

    By the way, relevant to the OP, Justicar’s identity has been tracked down. The stupid git left clues all over the internet —

    http://www.nelsonhaha.com/

    He was eventually dispatched by every moving ‘PZIG’.

    FOR GREAT JUSTICE.

  451. 451
    oolon

    The only response I can make as a third party is to act as a witness. If any of the people targeted by scum like Justicar want to take a stand, I’ll support them.

    Bad move, I thought you’d meant someone else had d0xxed him… Shouldn’t have tweeted about it!

    Now if at any point in the future he is d0xxed by *anyone* it will be puppet master PZ pulling strings in the background. By holding back you’ll be Mr Creepy Clown with his “threat narrative” trying to suppress freeze peach of the #bravehero Justicar. Just like to make it clear I don’t think any of that is valid criticism — just pointing out PZ stands somewhere between Scylla and Charybdis if he is doing this to avoid flak! Its coming anyway…

    I’m with Hyperdeath, no need to protect harassers who look to d0x other people. If you’d decided to do nothing then you should have done and said nothing, too late now, genie is out of the bottle imo.

    If it really is as easy as you say someone else will find the info now, d0x him, and its your “fault” in their eyes anyway.

  452. 452
    oolon

    Forget it, apparently I’m a dipshit as well as Justicar… Everyone who is interested already knows his IRL identity. So say many DMs/email to me anyway. So much for being an expert on d0xxing!

    “Short post about how not to be d0x’d … While d0xxing Justicar … Maybe!”
    http://www.oolon.co.uk/?p=313

    What was all the hullabaloo about PZ? The dipshit d0x’d himself years ago by using his real name to comment!

  453. 453
    PZ Myers

    There are people who have trolled the blogs they owned!

    No! That never happens!

  454. 454
    chigau (違う)

    Well, I don’t have my own ‘b’log so I’ll just go with what PZ says sez.

  455. 455
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Holy shit that’s a wall of text.

  456. 456
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Ah, a Teal Deer bit of *floosh* sewage from Yorsubs.

    Anyway, just a few thoughts,

    What a fool. Nobody givea a rats ass about his OPINION. Might have saved the time and stayed shut the fuck up.

  457. 457
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Sorry PZ, shouldn’t have responded. You did banhammer the poor excuse for a troll. Its post will be removed shortly.

  458. 458
    anteprepro

    Hah. Banned troll posts a comment that is 16 fucking screens long. Diarrhea of the mouth must have gotten really backed up.

    I got PZ’s invitation so I obviously had to take up his kind offer. I took like 40 minutes on this post(!) as opposed to the usual 30 seconds for each of the others,

    And at the very fucking start of it, banned troll admits that they were just fucking around the whole fucking time. Well, hopefully nobody spends more than 30 seconds reading his latest pile of shit, and PZ will flush it out of here in 30 seconds once he sees it. We can all finally stop wasting our time, and you can weep salty MRA tears over not getting the attention that your FREEZE PEACH demands.

  459. 459
    Ichthyic

    Banned troll posts a comment that is 16 fucking screens long.

    please tell me I missed that, before I start scrolling up…

  460. 460
    Ichthyic

    …damnit.

  461. 461
    Ichthyic

    …does anyone else find yorsubs‘s constant references to his girlfriend…kind of creepy?

    waaaaiiitttt….

    It’s Hoggle, isn’t it!

  462. 462
    Ichthyic

    It seems he gets his boring style from narrating WOW videos on youtube…

    I lived with WoW lifers (meaning people who play the game to the exclusion of just about anything else) in my previous flat for 3 years.

    The phrase: “get a life” takes on whole new meaning. I worked HARD to get them to go out and do shit not WoW related, and only managed to succeed 3 times in the three years I lived there.

    How can you do nothing but play a video game for 5 years straight? What happens at the end of that time?

    *shudders*

  463. 463
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Hey yorsubs.

    You’re a misogynistic creep. Now please go away.

  464. 464
    Koshka

    Spending 40 minutes to write a comment!
    And I thought I wasted too much time here.
    Banning was the kindest thing possible.

  465. 465
    Raging Bee

    …there is literally no one on Earth that worries about you guys.

    …says the obsessed idiot who calls our comments “disturbing” and just had to type several screens full of text to make sure us guys pay attention to him. This guy is just like a little kid who has to keep on badgering the older kids to remind them he’s ignoring them. How much time did this asshole spend telling us we’re not worth his time? And why is he so desperate to be Justicar’s advocate, wingman and #1 sycophant? Kissing this ass-kisser would be a LOT worse than licking an ashtray. (Could this be what the “subs” in his ‘nym means?)

    Oh, and my comment #418 was not addressed to you.

  466. 466
    changerofbits

    Ok, this “yorsubs” starts with some perhaps warranted rebuttals (I haven’t and don’t want to read the whole thread), but then it seems that was just a cover for getting this into the record:

    Blah blah, you scream “misogyny” when anybody disagrees, blah blah, it’s all Rebbeca Watson’s fault, blah blah, demanding “harassment policies” at TAM, blah blah, justicar doesn’t have any problems, just did something wrong and you guys have no real power anyway and if you did do something you’d be as bad as him, blah blah

    I don’t get it, is somebody paying these tools by the word to come here and rehash the same old nonsense?

  467. 467
    athyco

    That latest wall of text by yorsubss may soon disappear, but I’ve copied the section that beings “I’m a man that cares about equality…” and may do something with it elsewhere.

    It’s near the bottom. I’d wager it’s worth three bingo cards by itself.

  468. 468
    athyco

    begins* ack

  469. 469
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Somewhat unrelated:

    The newest depressioncomix is really good.

  470. 470
    SallyStrange

    Hey yorsubs,

    FUCK CIVILITY.

    That is all.

  471. 471
    LykeX

    You made a great apology at the start of your mail, but then followed it up with something arguably far more defamatory.

    Tough. I apologized for my mistake. The “defamation” (AKA honest evaluation of your character, based on your behavior in this thread) was quite intentional.

  472. 472
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Patrick @71:

    @45: Justicar goes much farther than that. He thinks that anyone, gay or straight, who is offended by having the word addressed at them, is wrong. He was offended by ME when I suggested to someone ELSE that the word “faggot” could be offensive when addressed to someone, because being straight I, according to him, did not have the right to point that out to another straight person. Not long after I blocked him when he implicitly insulted my wife for being “overly sensitive” about the subject of rape.

    Similar to Janine’s comment (her use of “bitch”), I will refer to myself as a “faggot” when I’m in the company of people that I have a good friendship with. I won’t use it around other people. I *will not* use it around people I don’t know. I certainly won’t tolerate people using that term around me. I don’t know their intent, I have no way of knowing their opinion of gay people, and given that homosexuality is hardly five-by-five in the US, it is no stretch to believe that those using the word are homophobes (especially here in the god soaked, religion loving South).

    But what really pisses me the fuck off is his insult to your wife. “Overly sensitive”…oooh! That shit raises hair on my arms, and brings me to tears (intense anger makes me cry). I’m sorry that asshat thought he what he had to say was worth uttering.
    Fuck him.
    Fuck him from now til eternity.
    ****
    A.E.:

    This is the subject of a biopic that should be airing on the Lifetime channel later this summer.

    Why? Did BRAVO turned him down?

  473. 473
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Shouldn’t this thread be incredibly short?
    After all, FtB (by which some folks mean “PZ M(e)yers) so often bans dissenting opinions…

  474. 474
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    yorsubs @178:

    Sorry, I don’t understand,

    You really could have stopped here. Especially given that you *probably* haven’t contributed anything of value between #178 and #455 (really, you jumped in here to defend the misogynistic shartface Justin Vacula in a thread discussing why he’s a Slime Shitter. Do you people get cookies, gold stars and glitter on your Pit Report Cards?)

  475. 475
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    yorsubs:

    I mean, how is characterising people by “Slymepit” useful or mature ?

    I never knew this thread would be so entertaining.
    I can’t wait to see what other brilliance is uttered by Justin Vacula’s new BFF…

  476. 476
    LykeX

    Addendum to my #472:

    Thinking about this, I wonder if yorsubs really understands what I apologized for and why. Insults and threats are not simply points on a spectrum. A threat is categorically different from an insult. Insults may be rude, but even the harshest, most vicious insult can’t hold a candle to even the weakest threat. Insults are just words. A threat is more than words, because of the implied action to follow.

    I said something that could be interpreted as a threat. That’s crossing a line that no insult ever could. That’s why I clarified it and apologized. The insults were intentional, the threat was not.

    This is somewhat analogous to why I took such exception to the prozac comment. That wasn’t simply a run of the mill insult. It was an ableist comment. It was an attempt to target and alienate an already marginalized group. That’s qualitatively different from calling someone an asshole.

  477. 477
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Nuance and context is a foreign land to yorsubs.

    To wit: xe can’t understand that the very same words spoken to two different people can have very different implications.

  478. 478
    boby

    Given the age of this thread, I debated whether or not to respond, but since this question is a good one, I though it would be appropriate to respond anyways:

    I’d say that one effect is that the person experiences emotions commonly experienced when being marginalized, but to determine if the person was necessarily marginalized, let’s look at the definition I’m using again:

    “To relegate or confine to a lower or outer limit or edge, as of social standing.

    For this to be fulfilled, there has to either be the intent or effect of lowering the person’s social status, which is something that happens among people.

    what is the difference between experiencing marginalization and being marginalized?

    The difference between being marginalized and experiencing emotions commonly experienced when being marginalized, is that there is the intent or effect of one losing social status with marginalization. Just because one experiences certain emotions s/he has often experienced when actually being marginalized in the past doesn’t mean there was any intent or effect of losing social status.

    The experience of an emotion is interior to an individual (even if the individual can externally express to others that they are experiencing that emotion), while a loss of social status is something that happens within a social system exterior to the individual who losses it.

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