Botanical Wednesday: Take me back to the Pacific coast »« Ask an ethicist!

Comments

  1. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    The metronomically odious Benn Dover has reappeared in the ‘..did everything right” thread. Have you had a chance to review Chris’ moderation there yet PZ?

  2. says

    Good morning!

    And I actually sort of mean “good” in the way that I think neurotypical people probably mean it when they’re being sincere. I woke up at 6:45, brushed my teeth and walked the dog, had a vegan tree-bark and seaweed shake, and now I’m sitting here sipping on a mug of green tea and reading blogs. My Aperture Science mug, to be precise. That’s more than I usually manage to get done by noon on some days… depression sucks, as I’m sure you’re all well aware.

    In cat news, Lily (Formerly Office Kitty) slept in the bedroom closet last night, without getting attacked by the other cats. We have fairly normalized cat relations in this house now. She’s pretty territorial about the office though, which is funny because that’s where the main cluster of litter boxes is located. She sort of lets the other cats use the boxes, and then as they’re leaving Lily hops down off of the desk and hisses as if to say “… and STAY OUT!” I’ve also conquered the odor problem once and for all… for at least this week. I’ve got a Litter Genie, and where the cats have been peeing on the floor I’ve laid down large training pads that I spray down with deodorizer and change ever other day.

  3. blf says

    I woke up at 6:45 …

    Um, where’s the good here? That’s the middle of the freaking night, for feck’s sake. Waking up anytime before noon is not good. Getting up anytime when Sol is supposed to be out is seriously not good.

  4. Yellow Thursday says

    One of my customers (a very sweet, elderly woman who apparently assumes I’m a Christian like her) mailed me an Easter card, which I received today. On the front, it says: “Easter is a beautiful reminder that all things are possible with God.” Blech!

  5. says

    and on the first morning of the first day our beloved pasta God , FSM, created Peas, forever marking mornings as evil with the pea as the malevolent representation of that dreaded time of day.

    or in layman’s terms I dislike mornings too.

  6. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    Wait… a tree-bark and sea-weed shake? You aren’t moose cleansing by any chance, are you?

  7. Portia says

    IJoe: Good on ya for the good morning :)

    It’s sunny here, which makes me feel happy.

    ==

    Mormonfriend (who calls himself a libertarian) changed his fb picture to the HRC pink/red symbol…
    (boggle)

  8. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    Never mind, it’s just something unserious I linked to a while ago. ;)
    That poor ducky-duck.

  9. dianne says

    @9: I might be wrong, but based on last name and picture, Rundkvist is likely at least partly European. That is, a member of the tribe that came out on top. It’s easy to dismiss the urge to learn more about one’s ethnic heritage when yours is all around you and the accepted “norm”. Yes, certain efforts at holding too hard to heritage cause problems (he mentions the Israeli-Palestinian conflict specifically and it’s a good example), but asking people to forget the past and be one culture is easier when the culture everyone must become is your own.

  10. says

    David M. @690 in the previous thread:

    Los Angeles Times, Supreme Court Chief Justice John Robert’s

    …Nine uppercase words in a row. Only English can do that.

    (Took me a while to decipher what it all meant.)

    Heh. It looked a little strange to me too, but I’m fairly sure it is correct. The important point is that a conservative SCOTUS judge had invited his lesbian cousin to sit in the reserved section as his guest so that she can observe the debate about Prop 8. That makes me smile.

    It’s probably too early to be hopeful, but I am hopeful anyway. The defendants in the case were married during the brief time in which gay marriage was legal in California. Subsequently, their marriage license was rescinded. If that’s not obvious inequality and discrimination ….

    As for the many uppercase words in a row, you can’t beat the official titles of mormon bigwigs for uppercase madness: President, Prophet, Seer, and Revelator of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Thomas S. Monson. Sometimes people add another descriptor, “Apostle.” Apostles lower in the hierarchy may have phrases like “First Counselor of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles” added to various other titles.

    Our local NPR station is run out of Rexburg, from the Brigham Young University-Idaho campus. This means that all the announcers are obligated to use long versions of the titles of mormon bigwigs when they report their version of local news. It can be quite amusing.

  11. says

    To celebrate the arrival of springtime, I am sending candy that looks like rabbit droppings to my excellent progeny. That’s traditional, right?

  12. blf says

    Which well-loved foods do you hate?: “Some aversions — offal, kimchi or anchovies, for example — are widely understood, but telling someone you hate pizza is generally considered an act of heresy. Still, plenty of us are repulsed by dishes that others think of as classics”.

    Doesn’t mention peas.
    And what the feck is it with the kimchi-hate?

  13. fwtbc says

    Is anyone else having trouble with the RSS feed?

    It seems really, really delayed for me.

    The 5 most recent things in the RSS feed that I’m seeing are:

    Blathering FtBers
    The “used to” isn’t there
    Anti-Caturday post
    We need a sociologist of science…or a philosopher
    [Thunderdome]

    From what I can tell, there’s been 17 new posts since then.

    How’s that square with others who are subscribed to the RSS feed?

  14. Alverant says

    OT this morning on the way to the train some guys were handing out Jesus flyers. I didn’t take one but I could see their Jesus was a well groomed white guy with short hair and a trimmed beard. I told them I didn’t like fiction and moved on. Kind of pathetic of them. Fortunately I didn’t see anyone else with those flyers while I was waiting for a train.

  15. frankb says

    Apostles lower in the hierarchy may have phrases like “First Counselor of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles” added to various other titles.

    I am shooting for the office of “The High Lord Counsel Retainer of The Prophet’s Seal and Apostle’s Privy Key”.

  16. carlie says

    Go go DarkBaby!!!!

    I still remember when my little brother learned to roll – it became his primary means of locomotion. He didn’t bother with crawling much, because he could just roll wherever he wanted.

  17. rq says

    Yay for DarkBaby!
    The confusion will pass, and will be replaced with cold, cold calculation… and an adorable smirk! ;)

  18. dianne says

    Ah, infant locomotion…I remember a conversation with my daughter’s pediatrician when she was just learning to move around:

    Ped: Every baby learns in a different order. No big deal.
    Me: Small One first learned to roll then to stay sitting up if someone put her in that position then to walk with assistance then to walk unassisted if someone helped her to her feet, then to walk alone and only then to crawl.
    Ped: Hmm…that is a little unusual.

    (Later conversation confirmed that since she got there within the expected time, her method for obtaining full locomotion was not important…apart from it resulting in our having spent some time imagining that in 17 or so years we’d have to help her to her feet so she could walk out the door and off to college…)

  19. mythbri says

    @Audley

    Hooray for Darkbabby! She is a little cutie – I can’t believe how big she is!

    @Lynna #28

    I’m at work right now and I missed Maddow’s show yesterday, so I’m not really familiar with the “Conceived in Rape” campaign. Does it consist primarily of people whose mothers were raped, or does is also include those raped mothers?

    If the former, well done for disappearing victims from discussions of rape AND abortion. Disgusting.

  20. says

    I am shooting for the office of “The High Lord Counsel Retainer of The Prophet’s Seal and Apostle’s Privy Key”.

    I think you not only get the Apostle’s Privy Key, but you also get to be Sole Rider of the Apostle’s Elevator.

    As far as I know, you can also have the Apostle’s Limo, (which is bullet proof), transport you to Salt Lake International Airport, where you can be delivered to your plane, having been driven onto the tarmac in complete contravention of airport security rules.

    You are also the Retainer of the Smile of No Kindness.

  21. says

    I’m at work right now and I missed Maddow’s show yesterday, so I’m not really familiar with the “Conceived in Rape” campaign. Does it consist primarily of people whose mothers were raped, or does is also include those raped mothers?

    Although the conservative campaign has come up with a few adults who testify that they were conceived in rape, most of the campaign’s supporters are right-wing religiously-inflected organizations that have little or nothing to do with rape, nor with any other real human populations. They are focused only on what they think of as God’s will that any pregnant woman should be required by law to carry the baby to term.

    No exceptions for rape, incest, fetal abnormalities, doctor’s advise, etc. Prison terms for doctors who abort a fetus with a detectable heartbeat ….

    Really, I can’t go on.

    It is just an anti-woman thing for the most part.

  22. Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty says

    Today was reading pals day. We finished two books. I got to walk youngin #2 to lunch. This is quickly becoming the highlight of my week. One on one time is a rare commodity.

  23. mythbri says

    @Lynna

    Although the conservative campaign has come up with a few adults who testify that they were conceived in rape, most of the campaign’s supporters are right-wing religiously-inflected organizations that have little or nothing to do with rape, nor with any other real human populations.

    I see. So….a bunch of liars, who are pouncing on the existence of a few people in order to advance their own agenda. Lovely.

  24. says

    Just breaking bad news: the Governor of North Dakota signed 3 anti-abortion bills into law. Despite statewide protests asking him to veto the laws, he signed ‘em, and he’s ready to spend taxpayer money to defend them.

    North Dakota Governor Jack Dalrymple, a Republican, signed three new anti-abortion bills today, virtually banning abortion in the state and giving North Dakota the most restrictive laws in the country.

    One bill would ban abortion as early as six weeks into pregnancy — before many women know they’re pregnant. The Center for Reproductive Rights and the director of the state’s only clinic have all but promised to sue to block this measure. Another bill signed today that will certainly be challenged in court targets that one remaining clinic with new regulations designed to shut it down. The third bill would ban abortions for certain reasons — including fetal abnormality — meaning doctors would be required to question women about why they’re seeking an abortion.

    In his signing statement, Governor Dalrymple indicated that he understood that signing this legislation would mean going to court and spending public money. In the paragraph describing the six-week ban, he wrote:

    The Legislative Assembly before it adjourns should appropriate dollars for a litigation fund available to the Attorney General. …

  25. says

    Another look at income disparity in the USA: Incomes of the bottom 90 percent grew $59 in 40 years.
    During the same period, average income for the top 10 percent of Americans rose by $116,071.

    The vast majority averaged a mere $59 more in 2011 than in 1966. For the top 10 percent, by the same measures, average income rose by $116,071 to $254,864, an increase of 84 percent over 1966.

    Plot those numbers on a chart, with one inch for $59, and the top 10 percent’s line would extend more than 163 feet.

    Now compare the vast majority’s $59 with the top 1 percent, and that line extends for 884 feet. The top 1 percent of the top 1 percent, whose 2011 average income of $23.7 million was $18.4 million more per taxpayer than in 1966, would require a line nearly five miles long.

    Quote is from Pulitzer Prize-winner David Cay Johnston.

    This disparity is not limited to the USA. The New Yorker recently profiled an Australian multi-billionaire, Gina Rinehart. Rinehart is a classic conservative in the narcissistic tradition common to, say, the Koch brothers or Mitt Romney.

    She is uncomfortable addressing real people, and when she does do so she lectures them:

    … Australia was doomed if it did not lower taxes, cut regulations, restrict wages, and generally make things easier for business and foreign investment. Her tone was chilly, pious; there was an air of head-shaking concern. She deplored “class warfare.”…

    For billionaires who cannot buy good press, there is the option of buying the press. … She [Rinehart] refused, however, to sign on to the company’s charter of editorial independence. …

    In addition to her media acquisitions, Rinehart financially supports a number of conservative think tanks and antitax groups. “Northern Australia”… should be declared a “special economic zone,” with low or no taxes or minimum wage or regulation. …

    Another major Rinehart theme is climate-change denial. … She wrote, in one of her columns, “I am yet to hear scientific evidence to satisfy me that if the very, very small amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere (approximately 0.83 per cent) was increased, it could lead to significant global warming. I have never met a geologist or leading scientist who believes adding more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere will have any significant effect on climate change.” She didn’t mention which leading scientists she had met, but she has helped host a series of speaking tours by Christopher Monckton, a British hereditary peer and professional climate-change denier. …

    The Murdoch papers in Australia already favor climate-change denial in their coverage, and Rinehart’s interest in media ownership seems to be following Monckton’s advice. A senior business reporter at the Herald told me, “I think it’s about climate coverage, in the end. There are only two shops in town, so, if she can shut down our coverage of the climate issue, it will be game over in Australia for a long time.”

  26. says

    In a nice wrap up of two issues, abortion and corporate greed, Robert Reich writes, “Conservatives care more about fetuses than big banks.”

    Excerpts:

    We’re still legislating and regulating private morality, while at the same time ignoring the much larger crisis of public morality in America.

    In recent weeks Republican state legislators have decided to thwart the Supreme Court’s 1973 decision in “Roe v. Wade,” which gave women the right to have an abortion until the fetus is viable outside the womb, usually around 24 weeks into pregnancy.

    Legislators in North Dakota passed a bill banning abortions after six weeks or after a fetal heart beat had been detected …

    The morality brigade worries about fetuses, but not what happens to children after they’re born. They and other conservatives have been cutting funding for child nutrition, healthcare for infants and their mothers, and schools.

    The new House Republican budget gets a big chunk of its savings from programs designed to help poor kids. The budget sequester already in effect takes aim at programs like Head Start, designed to improve the life chances of disadvantaged children. …

    Conservative moralists don’t want women to have control over their bodies or same-sex couples to marry, but they don’t give a hoot about billionaires taking over our democracy for personal gain or big bankers taking over our economy. …

  27. says

    GUISE! DARKBABY ROLLED HERSELF OVER!

    Hi Audley! I missed the arrival of DarkBaby and now this! Already!! Great job, DarkBaby! Oh that adorable, surprised expression!

    Lynna OM

    Just breaking bad news: the Governor of North Dakota signed 3 anti-abortion bills into law. Despite statewide protests asking him to veto the laws, he signed ‘em, and he’s ready to spend taxpayer money to defend them.

    Ugh ugh Ugh

  28. Portia says

    Cute face on dat behbeh :) Love it.

    I finally dug around enough to find out the bad news: they hired someone else. A young woman my age, who also got her law license just last year (actually six months after me) who came out of private practice. Zero facts about the person I lost out to with which to comfort myself, basically. I’m wallowing in some self-pity while trying to find motivation to do work. I did not need this hit right now.

  29. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    #8 Tony! The Lonely Queer Shoop

    or in layman’s terms I dislike mornings too.

    I don’t hate mornings, I just hate waking up whatever the time is. I’m always grumpy, groggy, and slow to come around to human form.
    —–
    ——
    —–
    Audley, D’AWWWWW the Baby!
    —–
    —-
    Lynna OM

    Just breaking bad news: the Governor of North Dakota signed 3 anti-abortion bills into law. Despite statewide protests asking him to veto the laws, he signed ‘em, and he’s ready to spend taxpayer money to defend them.

    That’s just fucking aweful. Can I still be a humanist and hate people? Fucking a’.
    Also, isn’t that the state that only has one abortion provider already?
    ….the US sucks so much.

  30. Portia says

    Beatrice: Yes please. I think I’m going to self-medication with Robin’s Eggs.

  31. says

    HAI EVERYONE!!

    Standard ooh and ahhs about Darkfetus – I was hanging out with my brother and his fam yesterday.

    Bro’s girlfriend is packing up to move to Georgia and Bro is following a few months after, once he finishes classes. Nobody in my family (we are all in upstate NY at the moment) is happy about this. The only reason? Girlfriend’s mom moved to Georgia, like, all of a sudden, and she doesn’t want to be away from her mom. Boo.

    Good news: I leave for Texas the day after tomorrow!!! WOOHOO! I am SO looking forward to getting away from this endless, endless cold. It’s the end of freaking March and it’s in the 20s! FUCK THIS SHIT.

  32. rq says

    Portia
    *hugs* and *consolation*
    Chocolate is available, too, as are anthills. With whipped cream, if so desired (sorry, no ice cream, I’m all out!).

  33. rq says

    Oh and also Portia I wonder if it’s worth asking them why they didn’t pick you (honestly, if this is a stupid idea and people just don’t do that kind of thing, go ahead and shoot me), if it was anything during the interview, etc. For next time. Because if it’s not the qualifications, maybe you can get some idea about what went wrong.
    That being said, maybe they just liked her more. *shrug* Well, I like you more! *morehugs*

  34. Brother Ogvorbis, Fully Defenestrated Emperor of Steam, Fire and Absurdity says

    WOO! You go, DarkInfant!

    SallyStrange is celebrating going to Texas? Wow. It must be really cold and miserable up north.

    [looks out window. sees grey sky and snow flurries. oh.]

    Enjoy.

    Portia: Yuck. Hugs and a nice dark chocolate covered caramel with sea salt?

  35. Portia says

    This day just keeps getting worse. Fuck.

    I feel thoroughly incompetent.

    rq
    Yeah, I dunno if that would help at all. But thanks for saying you like me more, that’s exactly what I needed to hear. : ]

    Thanks for the hugs, and that caramel sounds delish.

  36. says

    Hugs to Portia!
    I am not having a great day myself. I have to tell my mom the bad news about what happened to me Friday, and I am so nervous about it. Its a band-aid that must me ripped off, but I just know its gonna hurt.
    In happier news, its a beautiful day here so I think I will work in the garden. My lettuce is finally growing into recognizable shape.

  37. rq says

    So… Apparently bell peppers get gendered, too, but inconsistently. My Facebook said that the 4-bump ones were Female, and thus sweeter for eating (and 3-bump ones were Male and better for cooking), but Internet says the opposite. Oh noooesszzz, how can I get this right??

  38. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    I peeked into the Ars Techinca thread… Nah, not the place for me today.

    Has anyone read Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control by Kathleen Taylor? I’m only on chapter three, but I’m finding parts a bit iffy.

  39. rq says

    Beatrice
    No.
    But I’m currently reading Moonwalking with Einstein by Joshua Foer, which is an absolutely fascinating account of memory and how it works (half-way so far). Yay for brain books?

  40. cicely () says

    Mildly ‘rupt. No relapses or anything dire to report, in case anyone was worrying.
    I plan to catch up in chunks.
    -
    Good news! The nodules that the surgeon harvested off of The Husband’s liver (since he was in there anyways) have been biopsied, and found to be benign.
    -

    I’ve been assured that it takes something on the magnitude of napalm to stop bamboo. :D

    I’ve heard that about bamboo; also, that the napalm might not help unless you dig all the way through the earth’s crust and napalm all of the roots, not only directly beneath the bamboo itself, but for about a 5 mile radius around its outermost extent.
     
    Afterwards, of course, you must still sow the ground with salt.
    -
    Late-breaking *hugs* and reassurance for Azkyroth.
    *reading*
    Well, you know what you did wrong; just recalibrate your Moderation sensors accordingly and prevent repetition.
     
    I wouldn’t go giving ammo to the enemy, though.
    -
    rq: I have confidence in you! That mint is toast!
    :)
    -

    I’ve wondered if I radiate some sort of an AGTF (Anti-Green Thumb Field).

    The Husband is sure that this is the case, where I’m concerned. He hustles me very quickly past the live-plant area just inside the entry of Walmart. Claims they tremble in fear at my very presence.
    -
    Ogvorbis: *hugs* for the bad dreams, and best wishes for dealing with the new boss’ boss.
    -

    The bridge in Turkey that vanished overnight:

    They were setting up an S.E.P. field, and needed an improbability to hang it on.
    -
    If all libraries are One Library in L-Space, then all colossal messes may really be One Mess, in what I’m gonna dub M-Space. (Soon, all the letters of the alphabet will be clamoring for their Own Spaces…but I suggest deferring that conversation ‘Til Later.)
     
    This being the case, blf, keep an eye out for an immense pile of late ’70s/early ’80s newspapers (from Weatherford, OK); turn slightly left, pass the pile of non-functioning CB radios, follow the line of old tires, weave around the pizza box stack and Bob’s your uncle.
    That would be my late friend Robert, whose trailer you will be exiting.
    *rolling a d20 in memory*
    -

  41. noastronomer says

    @Yellow Thursday #7

    One of my customers (a very sweet, elderly woman who apparently assumes I’m a Christian like her) mailed me an Easter card, which I received today. On the front, it says: “Easter is a beautiful reminder that all things are possible with God.” Blech!

    Write “Does that include gay marriage and abortion?” on it and give it back.

    Mike.

  42. rq says

    cicely
    The mint, in fact, is toasting quite nicely every single sunny day (and that’s lots, so far!). ;)
    No amount of my watering can save it, only removal to a slightly shadier locale in the same room. For which I’m… yes, too lazy.

  43. Brother Ogvorbis, Fully Defenestrated Emperor of Steam, Fire and Absurdity says

    Well, of course the Trolls are going to start coming in droves. PZed is off galavanting again. And when the benevolent poopy head is away, the Trolls will hae their day.

  44. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    WMDKitty,

    Heh. The guy had a Dark Lord on the back of his head and all, but I found it troubling anyway that Harry killing him was never discussed… or that Harry wasn’t particularly traumatized by it.

  45. says

    Beatrice: I thought I was the only one thinking that about Harry Potter. There are very disturbing things in every book in the series that kind of get glossed over.

  46. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    If y’all don’t ignore the troll, I’m going to start singing. Loudly. So that you pay attention to me (while covering on the floor and pleading for your lives, blood pouring from your ears), instead of feeding the troll in the Lounge. [That was a hint]

  47. Portia says

    Well, what are you singing, Beatrice? I’ll bang on a pot for more volume in this endeavor.

  48. says

    JAL @47

    Also, isn’t that the state that only has one abortion provider already?

    Yes, North Dakota only has one abortion provider. One of the anti-abortion bills is a “trap law” aimed at that abortion clinic. It specifies pages and pages of compliance requirements that are designed to ensure that no one can comply, and therefore the clinic will be shut down. Previous trap laws have, for example, specified the size and number of utility closets, and/or that doctors working at the clinic have full privileges at local hospitals, (knowing full well that local hospitals could be pressured to refuse admitting privileges to those doctors).

    There are now a total of nine states with only one abortion provider. Used to be just three states. Some providers are fighting closure efforts in the courts.

  49. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Dutchgirl,

    Oh, I have opinions about those books. Lots of them, many dealing with all the fails.

  50. glodson says

    Forgive me for being rude glodson, but are you a girl? I can’t tell from your photograph.

    Nope. That’s a screenshot of Raz from Psychonauts.

    I think it is the topic. Mention anything about feminism, see the assholes rush in.

  51. rq says

    Dutchgirl
    You mean you weren’t so excited about those books, too?? *yessssss*
    I mean, they were alright… But yeah, I had a few problems with situations in some of them (including what you mention).

    Beatrice
    Wait, let me untune the piano and bang on that. This will be fun, like an impromptu improvisation jam session! But… different! :P

  52. glodson says

    If y’all don’t ignore the troll, I’m going to start singing. Loudly. So that you pay attention to me (while covering on the floor and pleading for your lives, blood pouring from your ears), instead of feeding the troll in the Lounge. [That was a hint]

    Goddamnit.

    This is what I get for letting my defenses down in the Lounge.

  53. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Portia,

    I’m listening to Leonard Cohen, so no inspiration for eardrum bursting there…
    I know – Ramones! I’m going to scream my head off.

  54. Portia says

    Scream away, Beatrice. I think I might go out for a cigarette and put some sweet potatoes in the oven. Hit a wall in my work a bit.

  55. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    glodson,

    ?
    I wrote that in a joking way in hope it won’t be offending. Sorry.

  56. Yellow Thursday says

    @noastronomer #64
    I wanted to ask if “all things are possible” included reconstituting my dead mother’s ashes and bringing her back to life as her younger, healthier self. But I try to avoid upsetting otherwise nice customers, if only to preserve my job.

  57. rq says

    I’m listening to BBC’s Neverwhere, finally got around to it (haha, got halfway through episode 1!!!). Thanks to whomever it was who linked to it!!

    Portia, I’ll be joining you in spirit for the first bit of your break.

  58. Portia says

    rq
    I offer you a drag on this American Spirit a la USBcookie offers :) Maybe the sun will peak through the clouds for me for a little bit. I should take a walk too…

  59. rq says

    Portia
    I’m going to watch the nearly-full moon, barring any cloud cover (it’s been threatening lately). :)
    *manythanks*

  60. glodson says

    glodson,

    I’m not offended, I just noticed someone in here that seems to be acting like a jerk. Don’t worry, I didn’t read any malice into your post. I’m just slightly embarrassed that I didn’t notice something.

    And the song is just one I really was listening to, though some of the trolls I’ve dealt with today…

  61. rq says

    glodson
    Sometimes, talking to one’s self is the best conversation to be had. ;)
    Alternatively, come and be noisy with us (as soon as I step back in).

  62. cicely () says

    Josh, did I *pouncehug* you? I don’t recall….
     
    If not, *pouncehug!*. If so, *pouncehug!* anyways. Just because.
    :)
    -

    Does anyone here happen to know anything about the diameter and/or thickness of giant squid tentacles? It’s become relevant for a game that I’m running. Specifically, there’s a giant giant squid (spawned by the Kraken) attacking their ship, and I need to know how much work it’s going to take to sever arms and/or tentacles.

    Well, if you’re DMing, I’d say that they’re as big as you want ‘em to be…or you can compensate for unaestheticly thick ones by substituting extra density and/or rubbery-ness. Another possible modifier—does Son of Kraken have a partly-magical metabolism? That can excuse practically anything.
     
    Therefore, the short answer is: it takes as much work/time as seems reasonable to you.
    -

    Well, if felons can’t have guns, then who are we going to use to justify everyone else having guns? The important thing is that we keep selling guns.

    I was groping for a way to phrase my thoughts on this one, Rey, and you nailed it for me. Thanks!
    :)
    -

    That said, it’s not that I don’t like horses, they just creep me out. Hmm …actually, no, yeah.

    Listen to your instincts, here, Thomathy! They’re trying to save you from unwarily stumbling into the festering sinkhole that is Horse Worship. Don’t be like the collateral damage in a horror flick that sense that the allegedly-abandoned house is “creepy”, ignore the warning, and go into Abattoir House anyways, and whose lifeless husk is found the next morning with a look of mind-breaking fear on its face!
     
    Also: welcome to the [Lounge].
    :)
    -
    Katherine Lorraine, I’m sorry that your father is a tool.
    :(
    -

    Have cicely and I taught you nothing about peas? They have no place on the dinner plate (certainly not mixed in with rice). They make decent compost though.

    They are also decent as projectiles, delivered either by spoon or by straw (blowgun-style; just, whatever you do, don’t inhale!), and can be rendered down into Cute by rats.

    Next thing you know Josh will say he rides horseback to work every day.

    Right up until the treacherous Beast gallops him straight into the river and drowns him.
     
    Don’t risk it, Josh! Just Say ‘Nay’ To Neigh!!!
    -

  63. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    glodson,

    I like the song :)

    I also like feeding the trolls, but I’m a bit paranoid about Lounge turning ugly, considering the mess in other threads dealing with sexism. And this one seems like one of the rare specimens that actually does thrive on attention, and where ignoring might work. [Hey people, remember ME! was a big hint]

    For trolls:
    You are welcome here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/03/22/thunderdome-23

  64. glodson says

    I also like feeding the trolls, but I’m a bit paranoid about Lounge turning ugly, considering the mess in other threads dealing with sexism.

    I’ve hardly been productive. Those threads, I know it is going to be bad. But I still go and try to fight.

  65. rq says

    glodson
    And thank you for doing so. I’m not that brave myself, yet, but I hope to be.
    One day.

    Maybe.

  66. says

    rq: well, I enjoyed reading the books as mindless adventure stories, I just had avoid *thinking* about them in any meaningful way because then.. yeah.. fail.

    “Wait, let me untune the piano and bang on that. This will be fun, like an impromptu improvisation jam session! But… different! :P”

    Oh, I still have to practice violin today for my lesson. Haven’t picked it up in a week or two. This will be awesome!

    p.s. still haven’t figured out block quotes, sorry. I will learn.

  67. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Yeah, glodson, sing with us! Or bring your own pot to add to the rhythm (took me three tries to spell this :/ )

  68. glodson says

    rq

    I wouldn’t call it bravery in my case. Just stubbornness that can pass for courage in the right lighting. Really, the concussion from hitting my head on my desk is the biggest danger I face.

  69. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    glodson,

    Nah, you were good.
    After missing a lot of the action during the workday, I just didn’t feel like catching up and then repeating the same battles we fought yesterday, so I just skimmed the comments a bit. *blah*


    Dutchgirl,

    <blockquote> text goes here </blockquote> gives you

    text goes here

  70. rq says

    glodson
    Whatever works, eh? I’m still not as brave. :)

    Dutchgirl
    I’ve been shirking the violin for ages now (but I have Excuses!), so don’t bother tuning up and just join right in.
    Oh, and blockquotes go like:

    text

    (minus the spaces)
    (at least that’s how it works for me, good luck.)
    And agreed on the Potter. Mindless entertainment? Check. Thinking books? Mmmmm no.

  71. rq says

    Oh wow, it ignores the spaces on its own! Yeah, Beatrice got it right. :P Heh. Apparently I’m still not as HTML proficient as I thought.

  72. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    glodson,
    Yeeeees, that’s exactly what we need. I can’t believe I didn’t think of that song as a perfect eardrum burster.

  73. says

    News from the morridor: Utah legislators are definitely against a database of gun owners, but they are definitely for an abortion database:

    Gov. Gary Herbert signed into law on Friday, 50 bills passed during the recent legislative session, including a bill requiring a report on why Utah women get abortions ….

    SB60, sponsored by Sen. Margaret Dayton, R-Orem, requires the Utah Department of Health to prepare an annual report on the number of abortions in the state, why the patient receives an abortion and the race of the woman who receives the procedure….

    It goes without saying that Senator Dayton is an anti-abortion activist. She is also a mormon.

  74. says

    I’ve been shirking the violin for ages now (but I have Excuses!), so don’t bother tuning up and just join right in.

    How about a little Cripple Creek then? A one, a two, a one-two-three-four…

  75. rq says

    Dutchgirl
    With less rhythm. ;)

    Well, good night, all! :) Hope tomorrow is a better day for everyone!

  76. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    And on a quirky birdhouse note, I’m off to bed.

    (Work is stressful, which wouldn’t be so bad if it were for good reason and brought actual results. This way, it’s just stupid, but I’m tired anyway.)

    Good night!

  77. cicely () says

    “Developer evangelist”

    Fancy-talk for Marketing Strategist, maybe?
     
    Mind you, it does conjure up an image of a man with a bit of a pompadour ‘do in an expensive suit, smiling insincerely at the camera while pleading “Won’t you let [product] into your heart today?”, while acolytes pass the offering plates.
    -
    -
    New Thread at last!
    -
    Mornings are, in fact, made of Suck. This is beyond question or doubt. Nonetheless, iJoe, I’m pleased that yours was ‘happy’, insofar as is possible within that medium.
    -
    So, DarkBaby is on the move.
     
    Invest in a brewery now.
    -
    *hugs* for Portia.
    Moderate wallowing is understandable.
    -

    There are very disturbing things in every book in the series that kind of get glossed over.

    Like slavery for house elves? And what sounds like second-class citizenship for goblins? And Love Potions that work, and are apparently both widely available, and legal to use (with all that implies wrt Consent)?
    -
    Caught up!
    *whew!*
    -

  78. says

    Pretentious Jackhole Alert!

    I’ve been forwarded a comment from the moderation queue at Skepchick — no, it wasn’t posted there, I have insider information — and yeah, we’ve got a live one. Some guy whose ego is far, far bigger than his penis is determined to flood Pharyngula with sock puppets: I suspect it’s the ASCII penis guy I banned this morning, Benn Dover, who is probably some other disgruntled MRA who got kicked off earlier. Here’s his comical approach to Skepchick for help:

    Dear Ladies,
    Sorry to interupt your important discussion. Glad to see you don’t all sit round nattering and knitting, as per the sexualists would have us (junior) MRAs believe.
    I am the notorious sock-puppeteer who broke into Pharungula today. PZ really irks me because he’s never once said why I am banned. For this I am going to stalk him to end of his days and when his bones are ground into dust…
    Anyway, enough about me. I’m looking to recruit one or two bonnie ladies to work under cover for a bit. (No, not under my duvet, I do have a wife to consider here.) Have any of you got enough spunk (dread word) to give this mission a go?
    Before we start, my sock-buddy-pals and I work on a plausible denyability basis, so if it all goes tits up (there I go again) your have to swim your own way out of the soup.
    Hands up and I’ll pick the prettiest/brainiest two or three to get us started.
    Your loving and eternal foot stool,
    Lobster Blogster
    [No telling the boys over at #FtBullies, this is strictly on a need to know basis]

    How…pathetic. I just cleaned up a slimy mess of comments from someone calling himself “Martin Wiesner”, probably the same guy.

    Anyway, just a warning. I’m going to be on a hair trigger for a while, and will probably be routinely deleting comments and banning suspicious jerks for a while, until he tires of his wasted effort. I’d appreciate it if the monitors would be similarly suspicious, feel free to notify me on any likely troll.

    It’s so stupid. He’s going to peck, peck, peck his feeble misogynistic comments in, and then I click on them, copy his username and 1) paste it into the filter file, 2) paste it into a search that returns all of his comments, and then two clicks and they’re all deleted.

  79. says

    I am the notorious sock-puppeteer

    Notorious? Okaaaaaaaaaaaay.

    PZ:

    I’d appreciate it if the monitors would be similarly suspicious, feel free to notify me on any likely troll.

    Will do. Thanks for the heads up.

  80. carlie says

    Thanks, PZ. I always try to double or triple-think pulling the trigger on emailing so as not to overburden your inbox; glad to know you want us to look out for those.

  81. Portia says

    It’s like they’ve got debilitating personality damage.

    At the very least, a hugely inflated sense of their own importance.

    I know it’s been said ad nauseum, but I just don’t get the point.

  82. says

    Just woke up. Gotta take a deep breath.
    Hope I didn’t make an ass of myself last night.

    Not that that would be an atypical night.
    There are certain threads I’m not stepping into again. Blech.

  83. Portia says

    Hahahah iJoe, he wanted you for a mole! Don’t know why he thought he’d be any more successful with you than with Skepchick…

    I can’t even work out how such an “undercover” operation would work. If a person is trying to be a jerk, they have to…show themselves to be a jerk…

  84. glodson says

    I know it’s been said ad nauseum, but I just don’t get the point.

    Some do it because they are bored jackasses and just want attention. Some do it because they want us to know they are out there and want to oppose us but lack the wit to do in the more normal trolling ways. Some do it because they think it is funny to make people mad.

    Doesn’t really matter, it has the same effect and they are just showing us what kind of assholes they are.

  85. says

    PZ:

    Guys like him are just so sad. It’s like they’ve got debilitating personality damage.

    It is sad. Very much so. What’s the point of creating a sockpuppet to tell me to “open wide”? If someone is bent on trolling, I at least want something to sink the fangs into, not just ugly noise.

  86. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    #73 Lynna, OM

    Yes, North Dakota only has one abortion provider. One of the anti-abortion bills is a “trap law” aimed at that abortion clinic. It specifies pages and pages of compliance requirements that are designed to ensure that no one can comply, and therefore the clinic will be shut down. Previous trap laws have, for example, specified the size and number of utility closets, and/or that doctors working at the clinic have full privileges at local hospitals, (knowing full well that local hospitals could be pressured to refuse admitting privileges to those doctors).

    There are now a total of nine states with only one abortion provider. Used to be just three states. Some providers are fighting closure efforts in the courts.

    Holy fucking shit.

    I need a drink. And a tubal ligation. And a new planet to call home.

  87. mildlymagnificent says

    It’s 8 am and the temperature is finally down below 30C. It’s been 31 for most of the night and it’s only started cooling down the last 2 hours. It’s a cool and refreshing 27 for the moment.

    They say it will rain today. Can’t come soon enough for me.

    This is supposed to be autumn, not Xmas holidays. Pah!

  88. yazikus says

    I am the notorious sock-puppeteer

    Well. Is notorious the best choice of word there? I definitely wouldn’t go so far as infamous… Maybe persistent and annoying.

  89. says

    You didn’t, you were on point, as usual.

    Do you mean that in the discussion topic sense, or in the Oliver Stone’s “Platoon” sense? :P

    because sometimes…

    (oh who am I complaining to? I’ve got it easy compared to most around here.)

  90. Portia says

    The Human Rights Campaign symbol is sweeping facebook via profile pictures. Sooper-clever bible-beater cousin made his pic a division symbol. I’m not sure he gets just how appropriate it is to his positions.

  91. says

    I am jealous.
    An ocarina collector friend/rival (rare ocs is rare) has a wollemi pine.
    I want a wollemi pine.

    But he says that the guy he got it from no longer is in CA and went back to Australia, he was the only one registered to manufacture them here.

    I want a wollemi pine in my yard. :(

  92. The Mellow Monkey says

    Dear straight, cis friends,

    You don’t get cookies for changing your Facebook photo, FFS.

    If there wasn’t a whiff of “oh, look, we’re supporting SSM! I’m so happy to see my EQUALITY FRIENDS!” as if I’m somehow not supporting my own fucking relationship because I didn’t change my picture, it might not irritate me so much.

    And I’m not that big of a fan of the HRC anyway, so…

  93. says

    Just had the conversation I was dreading and it went much better than expected. Now its time for chores and gardening. Any volunteers to come weedwack our foot tall grass? I’ll pay you in beer and mangos.

  94. says

    North Koreans seem to have been caught in photoshopping shenanigans: Link at The Atlantic.

    Purpose of faking it seems to have been to make the world think they have more hovercrafts than they actually have. Pathetic.

    Nice coverage and explanation, complete with explanatory images, from The Atlantic.

  95. says

    I just saw an episode of Mr. Deity with the intrepid PZ himself. Who knew that in addition to being a brilliant biologist he came out as capable thespian? Bravo!

  96. says

    A few excerpts from an interview with David Cay Johnston:

    We are falling behind left and right. We have a Congress that just cut money for scientific research. We’ve got people who are idiots. I mean that word very clearly, “idiots,” like Sarah Palin going around saying, “Why are we paying for fruit fly research?” Anybody who understands science knows that massive advancements in human knowledge – knowledge that has saved lives — has come from studying fruit flies. If you’re an idiot like Sarah Palin, if you’re Donald Trump, if you’re Senator Cruz from Texas, then you don’t get it.

    The Fine Print is about all these laws the mainstream media has either not reported on, or reported on in the most superficial and disconnected ways, that are designed to destroy market competition and replace it with monopolies, oligopolies, duopolies — with rules that allow the biggest companies to raise prices and reduce services.

    There are 6 million corporations in America, but 2,600 of them, a tiny number out of 6 million, own 80 percent of the business assets in America.

    Let me give you a real killer number here. If you can get a law passed to collect a penny a day from everybody in America — and I show how one industry did this, the pipeline industry got themselves exempted from the corporate income tax, but they still get to collect it in their monopoly rates – if you can get a penny a day from everybody in America, at the end of the year you’ll have over a billion dollars.

    Under the Chicago School theories, we get new rules that encourage lying, cheating, stealing and fraud. In fact, one of the leading professors from that school, Dean Daniel Fischel, has written the bestselling textbook on securities law in America. You know what that book tells law students? That there is no need for a fraud statute in the securities markets. By the way, his clients were Enron, Michael Milken and Charles Keating of the Keating Five — three of the biggest fraudsters of our time.

    In 21 states, they’ve passed a law that says that taxes withheld from your paycheck, for the state, can be kept by the company. Now, every employer doesn’t get this windfall — you have to have to get a deal from the government to do it — 2,700 big companies, every big company you’ve ever heard of, General Electric, Procter and Gamble, Deutsche Bank, you name it, they’ve got these deals, where they get to keep the taxes. Billions of dollars are diverted this way.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/03/26/major_corporations_are_pocketing_your_taxes_partner/

  97. Portia says

    I am having a super healthy salad for supper. Along with some frozen breaded shrimp because bad day.

  98. Rob Grigjanis says

    Portia @121:

    I know it’s been said ad nauseum, but I just don’t get the point.

    Fear and desperation. It’s all they have left. They know they’re losing.

  99. dongiovanni says

    @Algonquin
    I really liked the article. However, I do find some of the comments a touch disconcerting, as I feel that they tend to write men off as being inherently incapable of contributing to society in a positive way, and as over the last century repeated attempts have been to suppress the ethnic group to which I belong, a turn of phrase which suggests shoving a burdensome group aside and seizing power is something that I find deeply disturbing. I appreciate that you did not make these comments and thus these may not be views that you hold, but I really do find this language disturbing.

    Apologies for the rant, and I would just like to reiterate that I found the article itself well thought out and generally excellent reading.

  100. says

    Wait, there was a troll in the Lounge?
    Sheesh. I take half a day away from this place and all kinds of craziness ensues. Next thing you know I’ll peek in the Adria Richards thread and it will be above 2100 comments…

    ****

    Portia:
    I’m sorry you didn’t get the job. Wish I could share some Sangria with you (or Margaritas). In lieu of that, massive hugs.

  101. says

    Hi all! I’ve been watching old TV all day with L and D, but I thought I’d pop in breifly. *hugs* to Portia.

    Lots of stuff I’d like to respond to but just don’t have the neerygy in Lynna’s recent posts, but good stuff.

    Also, I have a job interview Thursday, which is good,. For a part time janitorial position, which is less so. But hey,I’ll take what I can get.

  102. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Allo Horde!

    Impression of me for the past 48 hours reading the various sexism threads: D: D: D: >:( >:( (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

    Anyway, to reward myself for reading all that crap, I went to the gym and seriously busted my ass. It felt good, in a deeply painful way.

    So then, jogging on the elliptical in “cool down” mode, I remembered that there is a pizza joint next door to the gym.

    If you’re thinking “Esteleth went to get pizza after she left the gym,” you are wrong.

    I called a pizza joint and ordered a large meat lovers and bread sticks from the elliptical.

    I write this now from the wreckage of pizza, bread sticks, and beer.

    And it is glorious.

    And, thus armed, I am prepared to see what’s been posted in those damn threads in the past 3 hours.

  103. says

    You know what? The blog post I outed PZ on was too old. Join me in disillusionment and disappointment with this fraudulent freak.

    Alina, care to explain why you’re posting from the same IP as a relatively frequent commenter here?

  104. says

    I guess the trolls really are out.
    Clearly we have a shining example of [redacted because THIS IS THE LOUNGE AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE KIND HERE...yes, I realize I just shouted].

    Person who does not like PZ, go whine in the Thunderdome. This is our social thread you are polluting. It is bad enough to have the rest of Pharyngula infected with those of similar mindsets as you display; we do not need or want what you are peddling here.

    I get no kinder than that.

  105. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Alina, care to explain why you’re posting from the same IP as a relatively frequent commenter here?

    *curious*

  106. carlie says

    I called a pizza joint and ordered a large meat lovers and bread sticks from the elliptical.

    I bow to your mastery, now and forever. Damn. Did you do it loudly enough for everyone else in the gym to hear? :D

  107. says

    Something is really off at FtB. Earlier I got a message that said I had insufficient rights to view FtBs full website.
    Now, the comment by that troll showed up as the last comment (yeah, I had refreshed), hence my response. But now it has gone poof.

    I haz a puzzled brain atm.

  108. says

    Chris:

    Alina, care to explain why you’re posting from the same IP as a relatively frequent commenter here?

    It’s not Reap? Amazing. That’s one of Paden’s screeds for sure, I’ve seen it enough times.

  109. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Carlie:

    Did you do it loudly enough for everyone else in the gym to hear?

    No. I am embarrassed to say that I said the following:
    “Hi this is [Esteleth]. I should be in the system. Yes. Pickup please.”

  110. says

    Internet trolls make me think of the song Violet by Hole. Maybe it’s because, like Courtney Love, they get what they want–attention–but then they never want it again. They want other attention. It’s never enough. That’s why they’re always digging holes.

  111. says

    That music video might be kinda triggery. Sorry, I hadn’t actually watched it all the way through before. I just like the song.

    Cicely, I’m so glad your husband’s okay.

  112. Portia says

    Dalillama: Good luck with the job interview and thanks for the hugs. Many backatcha.

    iJoe: You’re pretty clever indeed! Good system ya got there. Have one for me!

    Tony: Random *hugs* cuz I haven’t sent you any lately. Thanks for the ones you sent my way, too. I’d love to kick back and have a margarita with you. That sounds divine. (If you’ll pardon the phrase ;)

    Esteleth: I laughed really loud and long. That’s amazing.

    —-

    Today…got worse. A friend at the fire department told me he had a suicidal episode recently. It sort of jarred me into realizing he had alluded to similar feelings before, but not so explicitly. He has promised me that he will ask his MD for a referral for a therapist at his appointment tomorrow. I’m going to text him before and after the appointment and bug him about it. I know you’re not supposed to keep a promise not to tell that someone might self-harm, but I feel confounded. I told him it’s not good enough to see the marriage counselor one-on-one, he needs someone who is focused on him, not his relationship with his wife. FuckfuckfuckI hope I’m doing the right thing.

  113. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Sally, iJoe, and I just had a discussion with my sister about capsaicin-flavored beer shits.

    Life is good.

  114. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Cicely, glad to hear that the husband is doing ok :)

  115. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    156
    Tony! The Lonely Queer Shoop

    Chris:
    I hope you will be around while PZ has spotty net access. Methinks you shall be needed (on top of wanted around here; you’re kinda cool, you know that?)

    I second this. They always send up a signal when PZ is away and with the Adria threads still going….
    *sigh*

  116. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    61 comments

    o_O

    *hands dalilama a spare >*

  117. Portia says

    I don’t have time to find the video from a respectable person.

    Literally the only sentence I read, but it says so much.

  118. says

    Riiight, Alina, because, you know, the woman in question couldn’t possibly have been in on the joke, and therefore a willing participant….

    Quit whining and grow up.

  119. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Alina, do you know what the difference is between PZ doing that and the dudes making dongle jokes (etc)?

    PZ had those women’s consent. Seriously.

    Dirty jokes are not the problem. Dirty jokes at a woman’s expense when she didn’t explicitly invite them are the problem.

    And yes, this is a hugely important distinction.

  120. says

    Chris already noted that you’re just a new morph of a known troll, as if we couldn’t tell from the shared obsession with something that a particular troll always brings up. Now do fuck on off out of here until you’re banned again, hey?

  121. Portia says

    *high five* Tony, the troll listened! We have magic powers! What minor wrong should we right next?

  122. says

    I refuse to be driven from this place due to one creepy stalker person.
    ****
    Firstly,
    Portia:
    Double shot margaritas coming up. With Cazadores Silver.
    ****

    Secondly, Who was threatening to sing earlier? Blare your lungs out. I, for one will join you. With my unconquearbly horrific singing skills (seriously, I sound bad in the shower), we can make music together.

  123. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    And Alina ignores that the women were in on it…

  124. Portia says

    Tony:
    I don’t think my mouth has ever actually watered at the thought of a drink before. But you made it happen; that sounds awesome.

    My mother is my biggest fan, she has cheered me on in every endeavor except one: carrying a tune. So I will belt out some disharmonious melodies with you, my friend. I’m thinking pirate songs.

  125. says

    [Meta]
    Nothing to see here. No one in this thread but a bunch of wannabe No True Feminists. Just keep truckin’ elsewhere.

    ****
    If that does not work, I shall have to bring my A game:

    FORCE PERSUASION POWERS BABY!

  126. Portia says

    Tony, that’s the secret! We just say “Nope, no feminists here, no one to yell at.” And they go their merry way! I feel like a little kid who thinks if I close my eyes people can’t see me…except that it works.

  127. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Alina, why are you assuming that the audience wasn’t in on PZ joke? Because “THIS IS A JOKE” wasn’t a scrolling text on the bottom of the screen?

  128. Portia says

    The fact that you’re ignoring reasonable explanations for the event the you claim to be so upset about is evidence that you would rather cling to the narrative you have spun about it.

  129. says

    Pathetic Sockpuppet
    Did you miss the part where your IP address was recognized by the blog owners? That (combined with the hobbyhorse you’re riding) is why everyone is outright stating that you’re a troll instead of simply assuming it, as we normally would when someone shows up to start vomiting out semicoherent screeds like yours.

    Portia
    Can we move to Chicken on a Raft next?

  130. broboxley OT says

    Alina, I watched the vid you linked to. What a pathetic pastiche of context ripping. You are all puffy and huffy and invading the lounge where I have not been able to relax peaceably because of 2 weeks of no internet and I FIND YOU? I am pissed. Go to thunderdome, post your sad little mind away in there and people will be happy to be annoyed THERE.

    Everyone else, totally threadrupt. Winter is lingering in Fargo but I get my house on the 15th just in time for flood season, and it is near the river

  131. Portia says

    Tony:
    Yeah, that’s probably it. I’m just fiddling around on the computer and getting mentally ready to snuggle up in bed.

    broboxley:
    Sorry you found the place in a bit of a mess. : / *hugs*?
    (The troll went to the Dome and then came back, unfortunately. They left after Tony and said to, maybe we’ll have to try again)…

    _——-_

    Hey Alina! Go back to the Dome! It’s chill-out mode around here.

  132. says

    Tony
    I do try to be charitable, and I counted at least three grammatically correct sentences in a row before my eyes started to glaze over; by the standards of trolling we’ve been getting lately, that’s damn near Shakespeare.

  133. says

    Portia:
    Wait, your bruiser alter ego is Portala, no? Perhaps between the threat of your strong right arm and my underdeveloped singing skills ( I was totes about to say “underdeveloped oral skills”, but….), the troll can be exorcised from the Lounge?

  134. says

    Yet another plea for help/advice from me.
    I know there are people here who are researcher and writers.

    I have been researching old companies and historical BS for years now but struggle (and usually fail) to write what I have come up with into anything coherent.

    Does anyone know of software that can help? Something that lets you track references and citations, sort them by date or whatever… kind of a visualization/organization/planning program that lets me see all the data I’ve gathered and see the way(s) I can come up with a narrative using it?

    I mean, besides building a database or whatever.

    I hear they make planning and team organization software, so I was hoping they made such things for researchers or reluctant writers.

    I have several things I have promised to people that I’ve spent a lot of hours researching, but I look at my notes and lists of references and dates and my mind just fogs up with fear and avoidance.

    Thanks, if anyone has any suggestions.

    (I’m sorry I keep coming here asking for help and stuff. Maybe some day I can be of use to someone else. Not likely, but maybe.)

  135. Portia says

    Hm, Tony, I think we can see what happens when we make jokes that we and other reasonable people understand to be jokes. I’ll agree to give them dirty looks, though.

  136. broboxley OT says

    thanks Portia, hugs welcome. North Dakota is nice, I am enjoying a touch of winter for the first time in 6 years. Enjoying it while it lasts. People are friendly here but strange. Relationships seem to be in constant flux. Think it is because they all appear to be from elsewhere, a temp society in motion. Also I am presented with TMI immediately upon meeting, I smile and nod sagely and change the subject quickly but it always drifts back to their (insert relationship here) problems and asking for advice. Strange

  137. broboxley OT says

    Jafafa Hots no idea if it will help but I assemble “stuff” then turn on a recorder and tell a story about the stuff. I then transcribe the tape and start polishing turds.

  138. Portia says

    Ditto Tony’s 214, Jafafa Hots.

    broboxley:
    That’s weird, alright. I suppose it’s interesting in an anthropological way to observe a different sort of culture : )

    We’re getting what I hope is winter’s last gasp, here. Maybe 50°F by Friday!!!

  139. Susan says

    Hi. I posted a couple of times on other threads, but no one knows me yet, so I thought I’d introduce myself here. I have been following Pharyngula for years, read most of the comments, and check it out several times a day. I feel at “home” here even though I have mainly lurked. I feel at home because it’s a safe place for women and people with mental illness, like me. I feel at home because nasty people aren’t tolerated and almost everyone is tolerant and supportive. I live in New Mexico, married 27 years, have three dogs and two cats, love the desert, and am glad spring is finally here.

    I am bipolar, and have been in a “mixed state” for most of last year and this, so far, because of the endless stress I have been under with my writing schedule (I’m a novelist.) I set my book deadlines too close together in an effort to bring in more regular advances when I was dumped by my last publisher and lost 3/4 of my income. I know we will never catch up on our considerable debt (in part caused by my bipolar illness and overspending, under control now, a bit too late) and this is very depressing … no retirement, no other assets. I know people here are much worse off than we are, though, including many who comment here.

    . I’m seeing a therapist, but some days I feel like a failure, utterly hopeless, and just want to stop feeling. I’ve been in a “behavioral health center” (mental hospital) which was not extremely unpleasant and utterly useless. If only they’d know about bipolar disorder in kids when I was younger (I’m 54) I would probably have avoided many of the difficulties I face now.

    The past couple of days have been horrible, mainly related to my writing. I haven’t had a real weekend off in months and months (I have to write 7 days a week), but will get a full 2 weeks off starting next week. I will be using it to plan a novel I want to write … which I will finish before I attempt to sell it. I feel positive about this ,but we are going to be in a difficult financial situation toward the end of this year.

    I will try to keep up with the lounge threads and get to know all of you better. Sorry this has been so long!

    Sue

  140. says

    Chris already noted that you’re just a new morph of a known troll,

    To be accurate, that’s not what I said. I said “sharing an IP with a frequent commenter.” A frequent enough and mostly constructive enough commenter that I’m provisionally deciding it’s probably just one of those “coin landing on its side” coincidences.

  141. Susan says

    Wow. That Alina is something. Why isn’t she in the Thunderdome? Is “fucker” the only word she knows?

  142. Portia says

    Hi Susan, welcome in.
    Sorry to hear about your troubles.
    There’s grog on the counter, but Tony made these lovely margaritas if you’re interested. : )

    Alina is also in the Thunderdome, where xe “belongs”.

  143. says

    Chris:

    To be accurate, that’s not what I said. I said “sharing an IP with a frequent commenter.” A frequent enough and mostly constructive enough commenter that I’m provisionally deciding it’s probably just one of those “coin landing on its side” coincidences.

    Okay. Well, the screed ‘Alina’ posted is from Reap Paden. I don’t know if this is Paden or not, but they are definitely only here to troll.

  144. says

    Chris
    Oops. My bad there. Scratch the first part of it then, but the obsession with that video is still a known hobbyhorse of Reap Paden, which in my book is sufficient cause all by itself to assume trolldom.

    Susan
    Hello and welcome.

  145. says

    I live in New Mexico, married 27 years, have three dogs and two cats, love the desert, and am glad spring is finally here.

    Yes! Another volunteer for the aridlands takeover of Pharyngula!

  146. John Morales says

    Hey, Sue.

    Lucky for you that, though this is a bothersome time (influx of trolls), you don’t give off any obvious bad vibes. So, welcome.

    Here is a little shibboleth: Are you familiar with SGBM’s unique status with respect to the Lounge and its genesis?

  147. Portia says

    Ok, I’ve sat here long enough that I’m actually hungry. But 10:00pm is allegedly an unhealthy time to eat. /whine.

  148. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Winter is lingering in Fargo

    What is this “Win-ter” people keep mentioning?

  149. Portia says

    you don’t give off any obvious bad vibes.

    I felt a little bad for having my guard so firmly up while reading Sue’s introduction. : / But that’s the sort of day the jerks have made it.

  150. Susan says

    Thank you, Dallilama. (Please excuse misspelling of names. I write all day and sometimes have trouble with words, so …

    John, I’m afraid I don’t know what SGBM is. I’m not sure how anything I said could be mistaken for “bad vibes.”

  151. Portia says

    Here is a little [1]shibboleth: [2]Are you familiar with SGBM’s unique status with respect to the Lounge and its genesis?

    1. Google was unhelpful in finding a meaning that made sense to me in context. Help?
    2. Are you asking Sue?

  152. Portia says

    Sue:

    I’m not sure how anything I said could be mistaken for “bad vibes.”

    That’s exactly his point. You seem just fine. :)
    (We’re a little on-edge around here lately).

  153. Susan says

    I’m really puzzled how I could possibly have said anything trollish or negative in what I thought was a very positive introduction. What did I say wrong? Frankly, I don’t see why an “influx of trolls” should make anyone read my post with such bad assumptions.

    I wanted to feel welcome here, but virtually accusing someone who said she felt “welcome” here because of the support of women, progressive causes, etc. is truly upsetting to me. I guess it won’t do any good to say I’ve also been following many other blogs on FTB, and they’re the only ones I read regularly. : (

  154. says

    Susan

    It’s nothing you’ve said or done, we’ve just had a long day of dealing with a handful of persistent troublemakers.

    Please, stick around, hang out, settle in! There’s room for ALL the friendly people here!

  155. says

    Portia
    It’s from a biblical story, IIRC. There was a fight between the Hebrews and someone else, and members of both groups were trying to cross a river at night into Hebrew held territory. In order to determine who was who, each person coming ashore was told to say “Shibboleth.” As the ‘sh’ phoneme wasn’t present in the other language, they would say “Sibboleth,’ proving they weren’t Hebrew and should thus be killed. Since then it has come to mean a phrase, word, or behavior which has no meaning other than to signify group identity/ingroup membership. That said, I have no idea what John is on about.

    Susan
    John said that you weren’t giving off bad vibes, which is why you’re being welcomed despite there having been a lot of new people recently who are here just to troll, that having put us all on edge. SGBM stands for Strange Gods Before Me, the ‘nym of a regular poster on Pharyngula. Aside from that, I don’t know what he’s on about.

  156. says

    Portia, a shibboleth is a test. It’s from the Old Testament. Search at the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible.

    Susan, you’re fine. Don’t worry. We’re suffering a deliberate troll invasion right now, people are on edge.

  157. Portia says

    Sue:
    You are welcome here, on the same terms as everyone else.

    John only meant that we have a lot of trolls, which means there are a lot of commenters who are disingenuous or outright hostile.

    I suppose I can only speak for myself here, but having a new person show up in the middle of such an onslaught gives me a sort of “approach with caution” mentality regardless of what the commenter says. You haven’t said anything that would make us think you were here in bad faith. We’re just once bitten, twice shy, on days like this.

  158. broboxley OT says

    hey Susan, welcome. Bipolar is not fun at all. Writing against deadlines doesn’t help. Welcome and relax.

  159. Portia says

    Thanks Dalillama and Caine.

    This:

    It’s from a biblical story, IIRC. There was a fight between the Hebrews and someone else, and members of both groups were trying to cross a river at night into Hebrew held territory. In order to determine who was who, each person coming ashore was told to say “Shibboleth.” As the ‘sh’ phoneme wasn’t present in the other language, they would say “Sibboleth,’ proving they weren’t Hebrew and should thus be killed. Since then it has come to mean a phrase, word, or behavior which has no meaning other than to signify group identity/ingroup membership. That said, I have no idea what John is on about.

    triggered a memory of a West Wing plotline and now you’ve made that make more sense to me too. :D Thanks for clearing up confusion I didn’t know I had. :)

  160. says

    Susan:
    As others have said, you are good. The last few days has been of the patience trying variety and many of us are on edge. We have had multiple new commenters fill various threads with muck. John was making a point that you are nothing like these other new commenters. For which we are thankful.

  161. says

    I gotta say… I see why people might mistrust Susan. One of the latest trolls has a bunch of dummy accounts and has asked people to help conduct “undercover missions” around here. It is all nonsense, of course. But it can be reasonable under the circumstances for people to be a little more careful than normal.

    Me? I just carry a really really really sharp knife. And another knife. And the other knife is just for show, I swear. There’s actually a semi-funny story here, if anyone is interested… *grins*

  162. Kitterbethe says

    Portia

    (We’re a little on-edge around here lately).

    This comment puts me in mind that I barged into the recent threads with no history here.

    I didn’t really think about whether that would cause regulars extra stress and end up being a net negative.

    In retrospect, not the best plan.

    Sorry, hoarde.

  163. Kitterbethe says

    @ Joe

    Welcome, but I hope you’ll forgive us if we’re not as open as any of us would like to be.

    Nothing to forgive. In some spaces trust must be earned, and that is a good thing.

  164. says

    Joe: argh…love ya buddy, but we are trying to reassure Sue here.

    What Tony said.

    In-group privilege is insidious. Whatever you say to a person new to this site that approaches these threads in apparent good faith, imagine yourself saying it to me.

    Because I’m still an outsider here too, despite getting the cushy summer job because my dad owns the company the fact that I’m a co-blogger.

  165. Portia says

    Kitterbethe,

    FWIW, I don’t get bad vibes off you, either. :) Welcome. Thanks for understanding.

  166. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Here is a little shibboleth: Are you familiar with SGBM’s unique status with respect to the Lounge and its genesis?

    I’m.. curious now.

  167. says

    Susan:
    Hello and welcome to The Lounge!
    It is very nice to meet you.
    I am sorry the last few days have been sucky, but here’s to things improving. Good luck with your novel.
    If I can impart any advice:
    The sense of community and the support that we give one another is tremendous.
    If you are having a bad day, you will find multiple sympathetic ears.
    Need advice? There are great number of commenters with a great deal of skill and experience in a plethora of subjects. Feel free to pose any questions.
    If you are celebrating a joyous occasion, you will find people excited for you.
    Filled with righteous anger over an issue? There will be support here.
    Moreover, there’s no closing time. I live in the Central time zone of the United States, while other people live on the other side of the world. People are in and out of here all the time.

  168. says

    IJoe:

    I gotta say… I see why people might mistrust Susan.

    No. Absolutely not. Unless someone presents in a straight up troll manner here, you treat them in good faith. Especially someone who posts about being vulnerable. To do otherwise is absolute shit behaviour.

    PZ put the monitors on alert, and if you have *good* reason to be suspicious, yell for a monitor.

  169. John Morales says

    Sue (or is Susan better?), I just figured that if you have been following Pharyngula for years, you’d get why I wrote that.

    What did I say wrong?

    Nothing. Nothing at all.

    I wanted to feel welcome here, but virtually accusing someone who said she felt “welcome” here because of the support of women, progressive causes, etc. is truly upsetting to me.

    No, you are welcome here, I was noting the circumstances and hoping you would assuage my apprehension.

    Azkyroth:

    I’m.. curious now.

    Poor phrasing on my part.

    I refer to his status and how it came to be, not how the Lounge came to be.

    (Am I really being so obscure?)

  170. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Poor phrasing on my part.

    I refer to his status and how it came to be, not how the Lounge came to be.

    (Am I really being so obscure?)

    Which status – the wiki part, or something else?

  171. says

    Chris:
    I would say that goes doubly so here, because of the social nature of the Lounge. While we may be uncertain if someone presents themselves in bad faith, part of “being kind” may entail extending the benefit of the doubt further than other threads.
    I say this as someone that SGBM rightly criticized for being cold towards a recent new commenter

  172. says

    Hey Chris?

    Whatever you say to a person new to this site that approaches these threads in apparent good faith, imagine yourself saying it to me.

    Ummm… I know you, and I think you’re slightly more foul than the north end of a south-bound mule. Maybe you want to pick a new/better exemplar? [/sarcasm/joking]

    Because I AM joking, and I’m in a better mood than I normally am, and sometimes I forget that some people maybe have a hard time seeing hyperbole when it is typed. Plus, I do actually have a ridiculous funny knife story!

  173. says

    Azkyroth:

    I’m.. curious now.

    The cheat sheet for that shibboleth: Back when the lounge/thunderdome was TET (The Endless Thread), there were a number of…arguments which reached a level of viciousness. PZ decided to ban SGBM from TET (and tet only). PZ then did the new rules, divided TET into the lounge and thunderdome and SGBM was banned from the lounge for a time. After a while, people requested that bannination be undone, and it was.

  174. Susan says

    I’m sorry, but I don’t see why #1) judging a new person coming in just because trolls have been invading or #2) parsing my post for “bad faith” is at all fair. I was hoping for support in dealing with my mental illness because so many here struggle with the same problems. Instead, I was assumed to be a troll until my comment could be properly “vetted.” I am in serious mental distress right now, and it’s much worse than before I introduced myself.

    I have spent days in a rage over what has been said to Ophelia and Stephanie and other women. I despise the Slymepit and all its supporters. But I suppose I won’t be believed, simply because trolls have presumably said the same thing. I have gone days without reading my regular blogs because I have been so upset by the horrible things said by people on the “other side.” But maybe I’m lying, because trolls have said this to insinuate themselves into these threads.

    I was actually invited to the Lounge when I came out of the woodwork and posted on another thread after years of lurking. I am grateful to that one person, and to anyone else who made the charitable assumption that maybe I meant what I said.

    If I must “earn” your trust after being open about my problems, then this isn’t the place for me. I have been badly triggered by this (I have a real problem with being judged when I acted in good faith and trust) and am now in tears. I’m sorry I misjudged so badly, mostly because I am now going to have an even more lousy day. But maybe I’m lying about that, too.

    Yes, I’m sensitive. But I’ve been triggered, and I can’t hang around when newcomers are assumed to be introducing themselves in bad faith. I don’t need this.

    Yours in non-trolldom,

    Sue

  175. says

    John:

    I just figured that if you have been following Pharyngula for years

    As it has been made very clear by a number of people in recent threads, many lurkers do not read the comments. Many people do not read every single thread – I don’t. Following Pharyngula for years does not mean you know every fucking in and out that goes on here.

  176. Kitterbethe says

    Thank you, everyone for the welcome.

    Tony, if I didn’t say anything problematic, I’m very pleased.

    If it was indeed so, I was lucky. I have a lot of privilege to check.

    Will strive to we worthy of the welcome.

  177. says

    Ummm… I know you, and I think you’re slightly more foul than the north end of a south-bound mule. Maybe you want to pick a new/better exemplar? [/sarcasm/joking]

    This is the Lounge, so I will not answer as I am tempted except to say that no, you don’t actually know me.

    And out.

  178. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Susan, I think those comments were initially meant as a sort of mea culpa for people who realized they’d experienced initial distrustful impulses, and thought better of it but felt awkward about them, rather than an expression of distrust going forward. If it helps any. :/

  179. says

    Caine,

    I’m really sorry, but my reaction is based on my direct experience.

    No one reads my blog, lets alone comments on it. There’s dozens of you who talk to me here, but my blog is a barren wasteland. Which is fine, I’m cool with it, I rarely post and my posts are dull. But someone commented today, from the Slymepit, asking me to “swap over the dark side for a bit.” That’s Martin Wiesner/Pogsurf/Lobster Blogster, intruding in a place that has been mostly left alone, where I’ve posted really serious and personal information. And apparently the same person has been in other places online “recruiting” people to “go undercover” in places like this…

    I’m not saying we should reject anyone, at all. But if people are a little extra careful? Yeah, I understand that. I’m feeling a little extra careful, and a little under siege, and a little bullied right now.

  180. says

    Hi Susan, welcome. I’m still new here too. I’m also a long time lurker, but a recent bad event made me come here for support, hugs, and offers of guard snakes. And it helps. So please continue to read and post here.

  181. Susan says

    And yes, before I stick the flounce, I read most comments, but not in the lounge or Thunderdome. I do know why Thunderdome was created. But I’m sorry, I don’t accept automatic mistrust of someone new just because you have felt “bullied” by people that have nothing to do with me. I have felt bullied here, in a place where I genuinely expected to be safe.

    Thanks again to those who truly welcomed me without putting conditions on that welcome. I appreciate you, truly.

    Now I am actually sticking the flounce,

    Sue

  182. says

    IJoe:

    I’m really sorry, but my reaction is based on my direct experience.

    I don’t give one shit about what happened on your blog. I read about it earlier. You really think you’re the only one who gets things like that? *Newsflash!* You aren’t.

    Now Susan has left, someone who could have used support and friendship here. I hope you’re proud of being a shithead. I’ll just say this: if I see you doing this to another new person in the lounge, I will be sending an alert.

  183. says

    Susan:
    I really do not like to speak for others, but I think it is safe to say this: ON BEHALF OF ALL OF US, WE ARE SORRY.
    It does not matter that you were made uncomfortable by one or two individuals. One of the things we pride ourselves on is our community and our compassion…neither of which is exclusive to those in the in-group. You were made to feel uncomfortable, and that is unacceptable. We, as a community, failed to make you welcome, and I am sorry. A mistake has been made, and for that, I hope you will forgive us.

    I would like you to stick around. You have a unique voice and your presence here can only brighten our little corner of the Internet.

  184. says

    Susan, in case you read again – I am so sorry. There’s no excuse for you being treated that way. I hope you try us out again in the future. Being safe is the priority though, and I hope you find the support and safety and care you need.

  185. says

    Fuck.
    Damn it.
    Sue, I’m sorry.

    ****
    Joe:
    I’m sorry, but I agree with Caine on this one. I understand that you’re under stress, but Sue did present herself in good faith. Contrast that by the troll earlier in the thread. The posting styles are markedly different.
    As your friend, I ask you to think about this in the future whenever a new commenter comes along. Especially here in the Lounge.

  186. says

    Now Susan has left, someone who could have used support and friendship here. I hope you’re proud of being a shithead. I’ll just say this: if I see you doing this to another new person in the lounge, I will be sending an alert.

    With my endorsement.

  187. says

    Thanks. I’m glad a stranger who showed up within the last few hours matters more to you than I do. I guess that is how a lot of you feel.

    joe, you’re doing that thing again. it’s not that you matter less (you matter a lot to the people here), but that your blog issue has nothing to do with someone opening up about their problem here.

    because really, what exactly would have been the harm to be nice and supportive for someone even if they had turned out to be an undercover spy? nothing. it’s not worth alienating people who come here with a genuine need for support. you of all people should know how important that is, and how rare it is.

  188. broboxley OT says

    Susan, I have welcomed you as have others, take a deep breath and do not feel normed by remarks. I have no issues with you and many others have welcomed you

  189. Kitterbethe says

    I feel like I behaved much more suspiciously than Susan, and yet happened to get treated much better at almost the same time.

    I feel really bad about that.

    I expect it must feel much worse for Susan. I’m sorry.

  190. says

    Thanks. I’m glad a stranger who showed up within the last few hours matters more to you than I do. I guess that is how a lot of you feel.

    IJoe, this is not your blog. You’ve chased someone away who was specifically welcomed by many people here, myself included — and don’t think I haven’t noted the gender dynamics involved — and then you react in a shitheaded fashion to gentle correction.

    You have problems with trolls on your blog and you respond by attacking non-trolls on someone else’s blog, where you spend time at the pleasure of the blogger, and then when a co-blogger calls you on that you respond with insults.

    Meanwhile, I’m hesitant to encourage friends to comment on what is arguably my own goddamn blog, because no matter how thick their skin is they’ve got to get past this kind of mistrustful hazing — which is, incidentally, something PZ has expressly forbidden.

    It sucks, and it makes me feel embarrassed to be part of the dynamic here. You owe a number of apologies. Starting with Susan, should she come back.

  191. Tethys says

    IJoe

    Attacks on your personal blog does not justify your behavior toward Susan here in the lounge.
    Caine is pointing that out to you.

    While you are on your poor me kick, perhaps you can apologize for the rude comments you made to Susan, and the assinine comment about mules you made to Chris Clark? Putting a sarcasm tag on a mean spirited comment does not magically remove it’s harmful message.

  192. says

    Jadehawk

    I’m sorry than Susan felt mistrusted, but I didn’t attack, I only expressed reservations. The same reservations that other people expressed. And I can accept that I was wrong in my approach, but my feelings are valid, aren’t they? Because what I said is “I see why people might mistrust Susan”, which is not an attack or an endorsement, but an expression of understanding. And I wasn’t the first to express the idea, but I’m the one attacked for it.

    But somehow I’m a monster for it, who needs to be reported? I’m someone who Caine doesn’t give a shit about when it comes to me feeling targeted and bullied because I’m not the most victimized person here? I’m doing that thing again, where I’m expecting people who I care about like family to care about me… not “care about me” that you can’t criticize me, or even to tell me to shut up and let this issue go, because you all can. But to care enough about me to not leap from friendly to shunning me in a few minutes.

    That’s all I ask, because you all know how much this place and you people mean to me. That you don’t kick me out because you’re mad at me right now. That you give me the benefit of the doubt to let me think about stuff and apologize and try to explain where I’m coming from.

  193. says

    I second everything Caine said at 274.

    Shit.

    ****
    (my final thoughts on this in The Lounge):

    Joe:
    To follow up on what Jadehawk said, think about the times when you’ve felt depressed, and lonely, with few people to turn to. What have you done? You’ve opened up here in the Lounge, in an area with people who care.
    Now look at it from Susan’s perspective. She spoke about problems in her life, and it seemed apparent to me that she needed some place to feel warm and welcomed at.
    If we (as an online community) are going to be there for you when you’re going through tough times, how can we not also do the same for Susan, especially when there was no indication that she was presenting herself in bad faith.

    And lest I forget,
    John, from all indications you meant well with your comment, but sometimes a level of detachment can be read into some of your comments. I see what you meant in your greeting to Susan, but from her perspective, it read differently. You likely didn’t intend to make her feel uncomfortable, but given what is a near mantra around here about intent, I ask–ironically–that you use your words carefully, most especially when they are directed at someone who is in a vulnerable state.

  194. Tethys says

    Susan

    I am so sorry that you were treated badly here in the lounge. You did not do anything wrong, and I hope you come back when you are not triggered.

    Please accept these virtual hugs (if that is ok) for the triggering. You have all my empathy too if it helps in any way.

  195. says

    Ijoe
    It’s not that we don’t love you, man. You were out of line in your initial response to Susan (So was John) , and people were trying to point that out. No one’s going to start shunning you over it; just in future wait for the usual tells before openly suspecting trolldom. I know it’s hard sometimes, especially in circumstances like these. We’re still your friends, and we still care about you.

    John
    Your sense of humor, if that’s what it is, should be reserved for those likely to be familiar with it and know to just ignore it.

  196. says

    Broboxley:

    nods to caine and sez “nice needlework!”

    Hey, thank you!

    Chris:

    “You and Morales,” actually.

    Absolutely. There is no defense whatsoever for that shibboleth crap pulled by John.

    Joe – you were wrong and acted inappropriately. You hurt someone, then defended doing so. Take responsibility for that and move on. What happened on your blog is irrelevant. The filters and ban list on my blogs are considerable. Why? Trolls, from reading me here.

  197. says

    Stop it Joe, right now. You know people here will give you the time to step back and process and apologize and you won’t get banned but you also know this troop will hold you accountable for the things you say. You’re being held accountable, not crucified, get off your cross.

  198. Tethys says

    Fuck it. I’m unfit to have any friends.

    Stop awfulizing. We are your friends who care about you.

  199. John Morales says

    Caine:

    Absolutely. There is no defense whatsoever for that shibboleth crap pulled by John.

    Perhaps not, but there is a reason: Inquisitiveness.

    This is one of those times when no self-defence is possible, and I therefore leave it as it stands.

  200. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Joe, this reaction is your depression talking. Please step back and try to see that. :/

  201. says

    I hope you all do well in your lives, and all the new people here get every possible benefit. I’m unable to continue here right now, but I do care about and love you, and I wish the best for all of you. I appreciate every way you’ve helped me, and I wish I were a good enough person to be worthy of all of you.

  202. says

    John:

    Perhaps not, but there is a reason: Inquisitiveness.

    Yes, I know. That does not excuse your behaviour, which you note. Thank you for that.

    ***
    New people are to be treated as usual, nicely. If someone is being an outright and obvious troll, fire at will. If anyone thinks they have reason to be suspicious, alert the monitors. We are here to stand between you and the balrogs.

  203. says

    IJoe
    You’re a good person, you just screwed up; everyone does it sometimes. I understand that depression can get the better of you, so take the time you need if you need it, but you’re always welcome back.

  204. says

    Joe:
    I hope you take this time away for some introspection on this. You are a great guy, one whom I enjoy reading about. However, that does not mean I will overlook it when you slip up and make a mistake, as you’ve done now (just as I would expect no less of others if/when I screw up).
    Also, just because you’re getting some sharp criticism does not therefore mean that people do not care about you anymore. It just means that while people care about you, they aren’t going to excuse you when you slip up.
    Perhaps it is the depression talking, but you made a mistake. You-along with John-contributed to running a vulnerable new commenter out of The Lounge. Of all places, Susan was driven from the friendly social thread. And you’re being criticized for it. At *no* point has anyone said you are not worthy of friendship. The criticisms of you are fair and balanced. They are based on your actions in this specific instance.
    It is my hope that you will take a few days away from here and gain some perspective, to return with a full comprehension of your mistake. We’ve all screwed up. Admitting it, learning from it, growing from it is what makes us mature adults.

  205. says

    Please step back and try to see that. :/

    Azkyroth, I’ve been meaning to say I’ve really been appreciating posts of yours that I’ve seen lately. And given that you and I got off to what was quite likely the worst start possible back in the day, it feels important to say that now. Thanks for being around.

  206. says

    If I was wrong, it was because I’m protective of this place. The way all of you are. I see what’s happening, and I’m worried that if my blog(that people mostly ignore) is part of this, then that means that there could be a broader to infiltrate our space. Not because my blog matters, BUT BECAUSE MY BLOG DOESN’T MATTER. Oddly, the fact that me and my blog are so unimportant is what makes me so concerned. If people have the energy to target Skepchick AND my blog, I worry that that have a level of involvement that I haven’t previously considered. My blog only gets 8-10 views a day, so if a troll that PZ has mentioned is wasting time with me, that means that this particular troll might have more resources than the normal troll.

    So if I was wrong, I’m not going to apologize for all of it. I’m happy to apologize to Susan or any other new person I might be wrong about not giving 100% trust to. I’m not going to apologize for having reservations about new people during the same week that a known troll who brags about having tons of sockpuppets is recruiting for other people to act as “undercover agents” for him, and has offered me money to help him.

    Here’s what I’ve got so far:

    Hi Joe, I am the notorious sockpuppeteer Martin Wiesner (real name, no junk mail please)/Pogsurf/Lobster Blogster/Tory Dipper etc etc. Sorry to hear about your recent spell of depression, but glad to hear you are making a good recovery. We loonies must stick together – I have Bipolar I.

    For some reason which I can’t fathom out old PZ at Pharungula keeps banning me. To be honest his security leaks like a sieve, so half the time I can’t be bothered to try and break in.

    I do however currently have three socks deep undercover there, but I know he watches over them like a hawk, so they can’t contribute much more than the occassional harmless quip.

    Are you willing to swap over the dark side for a bit? I need people with real world experience, not out and out wankers like Justicar and co.

    If my offer is too hot for you handle, just delete this comment, and we’ll say no more about it. I know from your excellent blog I can trust you. Leave me a signal if you are open to offers in the future, wink wink. [No cash I'm afraid, way too dodgy after all this bullshit in Cyprus]

    Best wishes,

    Corporal Jones

    And just a very few minutes after we started arguing? Here’s what I got:

    Joe, psst. It’s me again.

    Are you with us, or agin? Let me know I will pay cash this time.

    So yeah, I’m a little twitchy. I’m a little paranoid. I’m sorry for the people I’ve hurt with my paranoia, but I’d appreciate just a little bit of understanding for the paranoia, you know? You don’t have to forgive or ignore where you think I’ve overreacted, but I’d like just a little acknowledgement that I’m reacting to something, rather than being treated like I’m being an asshole because of my mental illness. Because is really fucking horrible to have been suicidal in front of you people, and when you disagree with me you dismiss it by bringing up my depression.

    Maybe I’m wrong for bad reasons, maybe I’m wrong for good reasons, there’s even a chance I’m right for good or bad reasons… but please don’t treat me like I’ve got no reasons and I’m just a slave to my mental illness?

  207. says

    chigau:

    Wow.
    A Blast from the Past!

    My apologies for being out of step with the changing times! I do understand that you young people have moved on to the Laugh Out Loud Cats these days.

  208. says

    Chris:

    My apologies for being out of step with the changing times! I do understand that you young people have moved on to the Laugh Out Loud Cats these days.

    Nothing like a little trolling, old school.

  209. chigau (違う) says

    *removes monocle and/or lorgnette*
    Chris, I do believe I have seen these Amusing Felines.
    Very droll.

  210. says

    Asher:

    Wow. Who dug that one up?

    Credit for finding that goes to The Mellow Monkey. In a previous thread, pearl clutching was brought up, as that’s long been a meme here. Chris Clarke pointed out the sexist nature of it, so there was talk of needing to find a replacement. MM came up with monocle popping/pop a monocle, along with that letter. Wonderful, isn’t it?

  211. chigau (違う) says

    Caine
    Yes. That would work.
    I wonder if LensCrafters has something like it? [har]
    I’m for bed.

    good night, Thread.

  212. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Because is really fucking horrible to have been suicidal in front of you people, and when you disagree with me you dismiss it by bringing up my depression.

    Maybe I’m wrong for bad reasons, maybe I’m wrong for good reasons, there’s even a chance I’m right for good or bad reasons… but please don’t treat me like I’ve got no reasons and I’m just a slave to my mental illness?

    Joe, I’m sorry. I was trying to say that I inferred, very specifically, that your equating of being criticized for your specifics responses with being rejected personally and viewed as unworthy of friendship was likely influenced by your depression. It was not my intention to…any of that. :(

  213. Asher Kay says

    Wonderful, isn’t it?

    Yeah. The language is hilarious. “Assert our common manhood”. Whoa, there, fella.

    I’m still trying to figure out what “greenery-yallery” means. Seems to be some kind of Gilbert and Sullivan reference.

  214. says

    Oh. That’s not of the good.

    The charger for my motorized wheelchair is acting funny. It’s cycling through the low/med/full lights followed by “off” followed by… well… repeat the cycle.

    *grumble*

    NOT in the mood to be dealing with the folks who fix these things. (It’s not them, exactly… I’ve just had some negative experiences with their receptionist, and talking on the phone is already massively anxiety provoking, so I’m already freaking out.)

  215. says

    Asher:

    I’m still trying to figure out what “greenery-yallery” means. Seems to be some kind of Gilbert and Sullivan reference.

    Definition of greenery-yallery adjective informal

    green and yellow: the greenery-yallery dogwood
    of or in the style of the 19th-century Aesthetic Movement (used to convey the idea of affectation):a greenery-yallery fin-de-siècle lyricism

    It’s also from G&S, Patience:

    A pallid and thin young man, A haggard and lank young man, A greenery-yallery,Grosvenor Gallery, Foot-in-the-grave young man! A Sewell & Cross young man, A Howell & James young man, A push-ing young par-ti-cle ‘What’s the next ar-ti-cle?’ Wa-ter-loo House young man!

    - Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck) Gilbert
    Bunthorne and Grosvenor’s duet, Patience, act 2.

  216. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    *peeks in*
    Huh.

    Susan, if you’re still lurking, please don’t hesitate to comment again. You’ll get chocolate and drinks of choice as apologies.

  217. says

    IJoe
    We’re not trying to throw your depression in your face. Many of us also have experience with depression, and we’re trying to point out ways in which it looks as though your depression is influencing your reactions tonight. Notably, statements like

    I’m unfit to have any friends.

    and

    I wish I were a good enough person to be worthy of all of you.

    are classic examples of the ways that depression lies to you. I’ve spent much of the past several days hearing similar statements from a meatspace friend, and offering her similar reassurances. You’re a good and worthwhile person, who is well liked and respected here.

  218. says

    just a slave to my mental illness

    when you react to criticism with “no one loves me”, then actually, yes, that’s your depression talking. not reason, not you; your depression.

  219. says

    Joe:
    Fuck depression. It lies. Remember that.
    Being depressed does not absolve your comments towards Susan earlier (for all that you meant one thing, she took it diffrently, which speaks, perhaps, to a lack of clarity on your part). But being depressed means you are not reacting to this situation in a reasonable way.

    You did screw up this time. You are being criticized for it. That happens to all of us.
    What is not happening…what has NOT been uttered by anyone is “Joe is a piece of shit who does not deserve friends. No one has said that because no on believes it. Once again, I implore you to take a break from here. Gain some perspective. Think about the events of tonight..not just through the lens of your experiences, but from those Susan has gone througj.

  220. says

    Tony:

    Think about the events of tonight..not just through the lens of your experiences, but from those Susan has gone througj.

    Who, I might add, mentioned right up front that she had a mental illness she struggled with. It’s a common experience for many of us here, which is one of the reasons it’s important to remember that approaching new people with kindness is important.

  221. says

    Caine:
    That cannot be stated enough.
    We all of us come here with issues and/or problems. Some people have it worse than others. The ability to participate in this community should be open to everyone, not just those who have been around for a while. That is one of my reasons for trying to personally welcome every new person to The Lounge. I want people to feel comfortable here. I want people to understand that this is a place where they are accepted, rather than ridiculed. I want people to know that this is a safe space where you can unload. Some people do not have that in meatspace, making it all the more vital that we maintain that atmosphere.

  222. says

    I think that’s it… I figured it out:

    No one here treated me as though my feelings/thoughts/ideas might possibly be valid.

    I’m not claiming that I’m right.

    But I open up here like you’re my friends. Like you’re my family. And no one treated me like I could be even wrong for good reasons, let alone like I could possibly be right. No one gave me a sincere benefit of the doubt, like we haven’t seen THOUSANDS of trolls here, and you’ve called them out and everyone jumps to your side. The one time I say “yes, but” and you all descend on me like I’m acting in bad faith, like I’m a known troll who you’ve been waiting to act out so you can get them banned. Like I’m looking to crush people for fun or for sport.

  223. says

    No one here treated me as though my feelings/thoughts/ideas might possibly be valid.

    Joe, I haven’t commented to you about this yet, so I hope maybe I am a “new voice” in the matter in a way.
    Anyway, the way I see it is this…

    Any time a new person comes here, we have no way of knowing what their purpose is until we get to know them and they reveal it.
    Any new person could be a troll, any new person could be a possibly great addition, any new person could be someone who comments once and then never comes back.

    I haven’t been targeted by the people on the other side of this “rift” apart from an unpleasant interaction months back with one of the worst offenders. Lasted a day or two at best. So I am possibly out of line making observations to people who have been subjected to that crap.
    (Instead I have been spending a year or so butting heads with the National Org. “for” Marriage Folks, by the hundreds, including Chief Scumbag Brian Brown.)

    Anyway, despite not having been put through what you and others have, I think we are strong enough that we can let someone have a chance to show themselves for who they are. If we do, we prove our critics wrong.

    If we don’t, we run the risk of giving them ammo – even if a new person turns out to be a sockpuppet.
    Please understand I’m not slamming you. I just saying, I think trying that is not just nice for those who come here sincerely… it’s just a good way to handle people who DO turn out to have come here with an agenda.

    I don’t know you very well, apart from the fact that when I come here and whine you’re always one of the first if not the first to try to be compassionate and helpful. The reason I don;t know you too well is because you became a regular (under your current nym at least) during a my absence when *I* was overwhelmed and took off in disgust because a comment I made was jumped on.
    Never planned to come back. So while we’re not all that familiar with each other, maybe we have something in common.

    At any rate, please don’t take what I say as a harsh criticism, or a criticism at all really.
    More like “strategic planning” if you want to think of it that way.

    If they ARE sending trolls our way, accepting people at face value unless and until they prove themselves to be dishonest is a way of not falling into a trap.

    I think. (could be wrong.)

    Those are my thoughts, for whatever they’re worth. :)

  224. says

    Joe:

    I think that’s it… I figured it out:

    No, my friend, I do not believe you have. The “you” that is dealing with depression and its lies *thinks* it has figured this out.

    No one here treated me as though my feelings/thoughts/ideas might possibly be valid.

    Untrue. No one has said that your feelings/thoughts/ideas are invalid. What has been said is that for whatever the reason, your words have resulted in an individual who was suffering and looking for support to turn *away* from this community which–for as long as I’ve been a member–has been incredibly supportive and caring when it comes to the shit life deals each of us. That support should not…can not…be just granted to those of us in the “in-crowd”. As long as someone presents themselves fairly and in relative good faith, they deserve the benefit of the doubt and support here in the Lounge. Other threads at Pharyngula are different, but this *is* the safe space.
    This *is* the supportive space.
    This *is* the venting space.
    This space *is* the congratulatory space.

    For _everyone_.

    I hope you consider this question when you’re in a better frame of mind:
    How do you feel-as the compassionate person I know you to be-having contributed to pushing away someone who was in a highly vulnerable state and was looking for help and support? You *already* have that. You are part of this community. You are our friend. Susan-from all indications-did not have that. She was looking for it. I get the feeling that maybe she *needed* it.
    And now she’s been driven away
    No one has said that your feelings are meaningless. But the concern and compassion the Horde gives to you can and should extend to others. Our compassion is sufficient to support a tremendous number of people. Supporting Susan doesn’t mean that you will no longer be appreciated, nor vice versa. It just means that there is another person who chooses to come here for her own reasons, and we wish to welcome her, rather than ostracize her. Given what she said of herself, I have to imagine she’s dealt with being ostracized enough in the past.

    I really hope Susan is still reading. If you never choose to return, I fully understand that. I hope that one day you will. One of the aspects of Pharyngula I have come to greatly appreciate is the community…specifically here in the Lounge (not that it isn’t present elsewhere, but this is the social area where that comes into play in a way that I appreciate). I warmth, camraderie, friendship, concern, elation, joy, sadness, and all around support for one another is a tremendous draw to me. I want others to experience that as well. I want them to use this space in the manner they choose. I want them to feel welcomed and appreciated here. Joe, you were new here once. It took some time before you found your niche here…found your “place” (I do not mean that in any derogatory manner). Before that, how did you feel? Remind yourself of how you felt when you first started commenting here. Remind yourself of what you were looking for or needed.
    Joe, to this day, I need that.
    It is clear you need that.
    Doesn’t Susan deserve that as well?

  225. says

    Joe

    Dude.

    You are loved.

    You are valued.

    I’ve called out trolls that turned out to, well, not be trolls. I’ve been responsible for driving a few people away. More than a few, if you count meatspace interactions. I’ve said and done stupid, hurtful things, sometimes intentionally (bad kitty!), usually through being stupid and not thinking and being stubborn and shit.

    What you did? Doesn’t even get near some of the shit I’ve done.

    If they’ll keep me around, there’s no way they’d ban you over an honest goof.

  226. says

    IJoe
    We are your friends. We do like you. Everybody’s kind of on edge because of the recent troll infestation, and people’s reactions were probably a bit sharper than they might otherwise have been, but I don’t think that people were presuming bad faith, just reacting more strongly than usual to a breach of decorum. I suspect that there’s also an element of deliberately trying to avoid the appearance of in-group privilege. It’s not so much an assumption of bad faith as a general consensus that your judgment was flawed in this instance. I do understand your nervousness, given the occurrences at your blog earlier, and that that clouded your judgment. Honestly, I think John did more of the damage than you did, and with less immediate cause. Also, while I recognized the style of humor that was intended, your joke towards Chris fell entirely flat, and has definitely contributed to the way things went thereafter.

  227. says

    WMDKitty:

    What you did? Doesn’t even get near some of the shit I’ve done.

    You took responsibility for that shit, though, and you learned and you grew. Everyone benefits in that case, and it’s good all the way around.

    If they’ll keep me around, there’s no way they’d ban you over an honest goof.

    Seriously, any talk of banning is very much over the fucking line (not yelling at you). At the most, all PZ would do is give someone a slap on the wrist with a stern reminder of what is at the top of every incarnation of the lounge: be kind.

  228. rq says

    I see. Well, this is how I feel today, which is a bit strange, because I feel really good and it’s an awesome morning (sunshine, a late frost on tree-branches (trust me, it is just gorgeous), no pending appointments), but I feel like improving my mood even more by running around and saying Fuck you! to everyone and giggling about it. For no real reason. *shrug*
    I’m sure it will pass.

    Improbable Joe
    I know you won’t crush people for fun or sport. I can understand how you are twitchy about it (heh, those are some texts, there, from… Troll).
    But here’s a thought for the future: if the other regulars aren’t seeing the same red flags as you, maybe you should think twice before (even indirectly) accusing a new-comer of trolling. Especially if you’re already touchy because your blog is having attention paid to it. Might not be the best time for a fast trigger response.
    Anyway, don’t leave, don’t go, please don’t be angry, I care and you’re certainly more worthy than I am to be here. *hugs*

    Dalillama
    *extrahugs* for the interview, good luck, that’s great news!!! *holding thumbs*

    Tony
    I suppose it woud be bad form to start the morning with one of those margaritas, hey?

    Susan
    If you come back, you are welcome here, and I would love to read more of you!

    Dutchgirl
    I would so have been there with a weedwacker, if only for the beer… Alas, time zones and distance! Hope it went well!

    other newcomers
    Welcome! What everyone else said about drinks, etc., stick around, have a seat, enjoy, join in whenever you feel like it (even with random comments – heck, it’s the Lounge!).

    +++

    I had to think about this one. Ordinarily I make an effort for my profile pictures to show myself instead of my children, but I think I can see the point at the end.

    Inaccurate in historical details, inaccurate in its portrayal of how much the government here actually cares about its people. But sympathy for the devil and all that (who [the government] actually said that raising their own salaries (and not those of, say, teachers and doctors who need it a lot more) was a Good Thing, because it meant the economy is recovering – and I’d love to shove their new salaries in several different places that are generally dark and damp). Fuck them, I say.

    For fans of Proust of Love Song fame.

  229. says

    IJoe:

    No one here treated me as though my feelings/thoughts/ideas might possibly be valid.

    That is not true. I think you should consider how much you have posted about how awful this has been for you, when both you and John made sure that someone else was denied that privilege.

    Your behaviour was inappropriate and specifically breaking the rules applicable to the lounge. All that’s necessary is for you to take responsibility for that and not do it again. That’s it, then it’s over and things go back to their usual goings on. Part and parcel of being an adult, it happens to all of us.

  230. says

    Dalillama

    We are your friends.

    Really? Hard to tell, for someone who moves to often to make friends. But here’s a way I could possibly tell whether or not I have friends here… not that I have much experience in it…:

    Everybody’s kind of on edge because of the recent troll infestation, and people’s reactions were probably a bit sharper than they might otherwise have been, but I don’t think that people were presuming bad faith, just reacting more strongly than usual to a breach of decorum.

    I incorrectly assumed I was part of “everybody” I guess. Because I was “on edge” based on the current “troll infestation” and my reactions to new people were ” probably a bit sharper” than they would otherwise have been, but I wasn’t “presuming bad faith, just reacting more strongly than usual” to the presence of new people.

    I hope I didn’t quote you so often that you’re forced to disagree with yourself too much in condemning me.

  231. says

    (I also wanna take this time to point out that the Lounge and Thumperdome or whatevs were invented while I was gone, and I don’t fully know the rules of them, and in fact some go against my nature… which is that I am actually a very bitter and contentious and snarky person. When I’m in a GOOD mood. So that explains any cluelessness.)

  232. rq says

    Jafafa Hots
    By the way, I love your posts and what you write. Just saying.
    And snark is allowed (there’s a Snark Hat floating around somewhere) but no outright conflicts in the Lounge (short version).
    The Thunderdome is for eating trolls and for harsher discussions (short version).
    So sometimes conversations that start here but are quickly becoming intense and might cause discomfort to others here are moved to the ‘Dome. Kind of like taking a loud argument outside, I suppose, or in the next room.

  233. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    re: your little comment about friends (and I know it wasn’t meant that way, but the whole ‘really? hard to tell’ bit came off sounding really badly, just so you know):

    No matter how much you move, we’re always with you.
    Friends don’t necessarily need to be with you, though. Friends stick around even when you’re being an ass. Friends try to help you.
    You can’t see us, but we’re here, and you better damn well believe us when we say we care, or we like you, or we’re your friends, because how else are you going to know???
    You can’t see us, but we’re your friends becuase you’re here, you care, you talk to us, you help us, and that is what friends do.
    So you can’t see us, and that’s a real shame (it is!!), but we’re still your friends. Not being able to meet up every Friday night doesn’t disqualify us – heck, we’re here every fucking day! And isn’t that so much better?

  234. says

    Ijoe
    You are part of everybody; you’re clearly on edge due to the troll infestation, which you have remarked on yourself. The rest of us are also made edgy by them, which is a major reason why your initial comment about suspicion was met with more sharpness than usual (the other reason being the fact that it contributed to driving away a person who seems to have been in sincere need.) After that, you made some sharpish comments (the koala one, for instance, has some obvious potential to be interpreted that way), and people (including you) became increasingly upset and angry. I’m not condemning you, any more than it would represent condemnation to point out that something a friend said is triggering for you. I’m sorry that you feel attacked by what I’ve been saying, I in no way meant that; I do consider you a friend, and I’m sorry that I’m not communicating clearly with you.

    Caine
    That damn sockpuppet’s back. Could you send up the signal if you haven’t already? Under Tarquin, this time.

  235. says

    Jafafa Hots:

    I don’t fully know the rules of them

    Easy, just look at the note on top of each incarnation. The one on this thread:

    This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Hug your buddy.

    Status: Heavily Moderated

    The one on top of the current Thunderdome thread:

    This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.

    This one is just in case you find that other bunny thread too nice.

    Status: UNMODERATED

  236. Tethys says

    Anybody want to discuss how Tarquin is a particularly fetid piece of crap for those comments towards Joe, or is that far too unkind for the lounge?

  237. says

    Caine:

    I like you (I used to be a rat-daddy, my boy’s name was ‘Cecil Wormsborough St. John “Nobby” Nobbs’), and I respect you. Even if I stop liking you, I’m not going to stop respecting you.

    The truth is that people have posted here who have triggered you, and you’ve slammed the hell out of them. You’re a fucking warrior and have a giant earned reputation for crushing trolls. And we’ve all for the most part trusted your instincts. In this case, someone came close to tripping my alarms, and I didn’t shit on them or slam them or try to crush them, but I did say up front that I could understand why other people might have issue with them.

    I trust your instincts when it comes to trolls… most people trust your instincts.

    No one trusted mine, even though I was gentle when I pointed out my triggered instincts. Everyone just assumed I was a giant asshole, as though trolls couldn’t possibly be polite in the Lounge, and then turn against us later. My goal was the same as yours, to protect this place and the people in this space. And I’m not going to pretend that I was a terrible person for mentioning my reservations.

  238. says

    Dalillama:

    That damn sockpuppet’s back. Could you send up the signal if you haven’t already? Under Tarquin, this time.

    Done. Everyone, please remember that it could take some time for PZ to see the alert, so use those killfiles and ignore the mess until he has time to clean it up. Thank you.

  239. says

    rq:
    Margaritas in the AM-not bad form
    Saying someone is more worthy to be here than you-tsk tsk
    We are all equals here, with each of us deserving an equal spot at the table. No one is more or less important than others (where the ever lovingy fuckballs is this side of me when I am bummed out? Why can I not channel that mood when I am having a crappy day or when melancholy sets in)

  240. rq says

    Tethys
    As long as the troll itself is ignored. Because those comments towards Joe are complete shit, I agree, as is the one who said them.

  241. rq says

    Tony
    Because when you’re down, we say those things to you? :)
    I’ll have a margarita in the afternoon. When (hopefully) both littluns are down and I can remove some more wallpaper.

  242. dongiovanni says

    I’m still a fairly new and intermittent poster, so just to clarify:

    What the holy poop on a poop sandwich just happened?

    I posted earlier today in a state of disquiet, posted a critical diatribe and left without reading the thread. (As an aside, apologies to anyone I may have offended). Now I return, start reading and… what is going on? Troll attacks? Paranoia? Someone tell me what’s happening. Please.

  243. says

    And I am really sorry if I’m not functioning at 100%, and I hope people can forgive me for being less than I normally am, but I’ve been dealing with “Tarquin” and his multiple names following me around for the last 20+ hours. If I’m not generous to new people, I may be wrong in withholding my compassion, but I’ve already said hello to Tarquin/Mr Angry of Surbiton/Martin/Martin Wiesner/Pogsurf/Lobster Blogster/Tory Dipper across multiple formats and forums, alone many of the places I go both around here and places I go to get awat from here.

    So yeah, I’m probably being an asshole, and my sole excuse is that I’m currently being stalked by a worse asshole.

  244. says

    dongiovanni:

    Troll attacks? Paranoia? Someone tell me what’s happening. Please.

    We’ve had a lot of trolls lately, one particularly idiotic asshole who is sockpuppeting (in the thread right now as ‘Tarquin’ – please ignore this person). A new person here was driven off by two regulars who were being overly suspicious. Their behaviour was called out. One person took responsibility, the other is having a more difficult time with it. That’s all there is to it.

  245. dongiovanni says

    It’s the scientologists! They’re beaming thoughts into my head through the window!

  246. says

    No one trusted mine,

    Joe I didn’t distrust your instincts, I can’t speak for others but I didn’t get the impression that they specifically distrusted your instincts either.
    I just saw it as more of a “give the benefit of the doubt” moment. Better to suffer a troll than to hurt someone.

    I am always gunshy with new people, so I bravely hang back and let others trip the booby traps. ;)

    That’s because I’ve been wrong in the past (offline) and can apparently be scary (much to my surprise) and I have traumatized a couple of people, I fear. Man did THAT lead to a bad period of self-punishment.

  247. dongiovanni says

    I’m not a troll. And I’m aware that it was stupid. I did not realise that this person was a troll at the time of posting, and I made an attempt at humour. Clearly, this backfired.

  248. says

    Joe, I don’t use and will never use killfile (I like to know everything thats going on)

    So I can definitely see what you mean, what you’ve apparently been dealing with.
    Nothing much I can say to help, and I;ll follow the mods requests and not engage, but just know that I can see it – if that itself helps.

  249. says

    IJoe:

    No one trusted mine,

    In this case, they were wrong. Full stop. It would be nice if you stop acting as though you were incapable of being wrong. Every person on the planet is wrong some time or other. It’s not that big of a fucking deal.

  250. says

    dongiovanni:

    I did not realise that this person was a troll at the time of posting, and I made an attempt at humour. Clearly, this backfired.

    I know, our posts were timed badly. Or mine was, at least. Thank you.

  251. says

    IJoe, I have the sockpuppet killfiled – if he is targeting you and you are unable to killfile him, please, take a break. Get away for a bit, rather than being subjected to a shower of shit. PZ will clean up as soon as possible, or perhaps Chris will, if he sees this first.

  252. says

    In this case, they were wrong.

    I wanna make sure I’m not misreading this. Does this mean we have confirmation (like IP address) and we know we didn’t drive someone away, or…
    I don’t want to misunderstand.

  253. dongiovanni says

    Yes, sorry about that. I do ill thought out things like that quite often. Anyway, passing over my stupidity and incoherence… what do people here think of Alan Sokal and his body of work?

  254. says

    Jafafa Hots:

    I don’t want to misunderstand.

    Susan was not a troll. I’m also not going to say anything else about this, I’m dealing with another asshole on multiple threads right now, and no one needs me to go extra-irritable over the very simple fact that new people are to be given the benefit of the doubt in the lounge, and suspicions should be taken either to the thunderdome or to a monitor or both.

    Now, I’m going to be out of the lounge. If I am needed, please yell in thunderdome, I’ll be checking regularly.

  255. rq says

    dongiovanni
    To be honest, this is the first I’ve heard of him, so I can’t help you out. :) Might do some quick research later, but I’m out for the moment (Things To Do).
    (Oh, and don’t worry if the Lounge gets quiet (except for that weird noise from the floorboards today), it’s the Australian wave is nearing its end, and the European wave is usually pretty quiet, it’ll liven up towards European evening again!)

    Improbable Joe
    If you leave while I’m out, here are some *hugs* and I hope you catch a break! :( (Or at least get some sleep.)

  256. says

    it’s the Australian wave is nearing its end, and the European wave is usually pretty quiet

    Yeah, the Australian waves are primo, the european waves are barely anklebusters.

  257. says

    Tarquin:
    If you are stalking Joe, stop it. Now.
    If you are a sockpuppet you should know PZ will ban you once he is made aware and chances are he has been informed.
    Also he and Chris Clarke are the only ones with access to your IP address AFAIK, and they can verify on their own.
    ****

    Joe:
    Please do remember that not *everyone* jumped on top of you. You were criticized by a small number of commenters.
    Hopefully in the morning you will have a better understanding of tonights events.
    Another thing to chew on…
    If we (the commentariat as a whole) had reacted toward you in the manner you did to Susan–i.e. questioning and cynicism–at a time when you were emotionally vulnerable, how would you have felt?

    You have several of us criticizing the manner in which you treated Susan. She did not get the benefit of the doubt that we grant to others. Even in the face of an influx of trolls, should we not still grant the benefit of the doubt here in The Lounge? In the interests of being kind, and witholding judgment, shouldn’t we avoid the jaded cynicism that-while justified to some extent-leaves us unable to treat newcomers fairly, as we were?

    ****
    dongiovanni:
    My memory is failing me at the moment, so I cannot recall if I have seen you around. If you are newwelcome in. There is a bit of an edge present across Pharyngula that seems higher than normal. It will pass. Please, stay for the margaritas. Ignore any trolls (here; elsewhere ebngage away).

  258. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Awake and at work, that’s why I don’t comment much until afternoon.

  259. says

    Well.
    Been reading some tweets from various people, and of course stuff here.
    The people are nice. I’m not feeling comfortable though.

    I think I’m gonna go back to my routine of a few weeks ago. Nobody to blame. Nobody at fault. Just better for me. Even if only for completely external reasons.

    Not that I needed to go all dramatic and mention it here like this, but I’m all wired. Also verbose and self-centered as usual. This is me.

    I’m back(ish) (always lurked a bit) because I have a lot of nervous energy again after many months of being semi-comatose. I may be hypomanic, if the docs are right. So I’ve been wasting time yet becoming irritable. Also seem to have lost my drive to compose my music, which is very distressing. Haven’t touched my piano in a month or more.

    I think I’m better off getting back into outdoor stuff. Get my recumbent bike back into working condition.
    Get my recumbent ass back into working condition.

    I may pop in to make a pointless joke in other threads, but I avoided the lounge and thunderdome before, I’m at least going back to that. (I never really liked them since they first started. Just not “me.”)

    So, nice chatting, mostly.
    Take care.

  260. says

    @Jaffa, 207

    I realize this is an older comment, but I don’t think anyone gave you any suggestions, so I’m operating under the presumption that you’re still seeking suggestions?

    While it was designed for writers more than researchers, I think maybe Scrivener might have the sort of tools you’re looking for? You can download a free trial from here, so it can’t hurt to play around and see if it’ll do what you need it to do.

    Failing that, I’m still a fan of going old school: sticky notes and a bare wall. Maybe some string and sticky tac, too. Index cards if I’m too wordy for a sticky note. I also bought myself some cheap sheet plastic (the same sort of stuff you might use for a tablecloth, only clear), which makes for an excellent whiteboard considering it cost me somewhere in the ballpark of $5. Scrivener does have one big advantage over this method, though, in that you won’t run out of wall space.

  261. carlie says

    Jafafa, I always value your contributions and I wish you luck in finding the balance you want.

  262. Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts says

    Listen to your instincts, here, Thomathy!

    cicely, in this case I will. I like the Abattoir House analogy. It reminds me of why I don’t watch most horror movies (now gore-porn), though; they’re not scary, they’re irritating. For instance, I don’t walk around my condo in the dark, but dumb horror movie soon-to-be corpses do. I walk into furniture instead of getting axe-murdered, but the principle is the same and it’s not to be wilfully stupid. So, as with dark places, if it just seems like it could be dangerous, I’ll shine light upon it. Or do horses scare easily with sudden illumination? I’d best not find out.

  263. blf says

    Tony made these lovely margaritas if you’re interested.

    The mildly deranged penguin sat up when she read this, and then exited at speed. Through the wall.

    Watch for a small tuxedoed bird with sharp teeth who smells vaguely of herring, eats cheese like a glutinousness black hole, and drinks Margaritas at a rate of knots and a volume of small planets.

    Do not offer her a pea.

  264. rq says

    Thomathy
    Don’t listen to cicely. And don’t Fear the Horse.
    If you sacrifice enough Peas to them, Horses are almost always likely to do your bidding, and help you along through all the Dark Moments in your life, without bumping into any furniture. I swear. Last time I left an insufficiency of Pea Sacrifice, I nearly burned the House down. This is Proof.

  265. Susan says

    Warning: Final rant. I promise,

    I swore up and down to myself that I wouldn’t post again, or raise this issue again, since I will probably be told to take it to the Thunderdome. After all, I’m upsetting everyone else with my whining, right? And no, I’m not taking it to the Adria Richards thread. That has nothing to do with this.

    I still am not sure how to use quotes, so here goes:

    I didn’t consider what you said gentle at all. Yes, I felt “shit on.” I put myself out there, and you slapped my face.In what way should your judgment have been trusted? If it were, everyone here would have turned on me, right? Because your “instincts” should supercede the benefit of the doubt, and basic kindness? Because you should be trusted, and I’m just a “stranger?”

    Yes, I’m angry. Angry at your excuses. I have been judged as the “bad one” all my life because I was different. It doesn’t matter if nearly everyone else here was kind to me and pointed out your lack of kindness. The damage was done. It hurt. Badly.

    I’ve had a very bad week already, and was suicidal two days ago, wondering how I could take one more day of hurt. Perhaps you didn’t consider whom you might be talking to. It triggered the very worst experienced I’ve had in my life, things I am still desperately trying to overcome at 54. You live your life thinking you’re worth shit, and then someone comes along and assumes the worst of you, without proof or cause except something someone did to you somewhere else. Taking your pain and pushing onto the other person.

    I’m sure it doesn’t bother you that I spent three hours crying last night and could hardly sleep and had nightmares. Because you were “justified. Because you were “triggered” by something I said, because by default anyone new must be a troll and not trusted. And I’m paranoid, too sensitive, because (as someone else so thoughtfully pointed out) I should “take a deep breath,” that somehow don’t have the right to be bothered by one or two comments in a “safe place” when everyone else was welcoming.

    Do you know how long it took before I found the courage to post here? Years. I thought everyone was so much smarter, so much more knowledgeable and articulate than I was. Years of lurking before I dared to assume I was “worthy.” Years of getting to know so many of you, liking so many of you, knowing you’d understand.

    I DO greatly appreciate the overall welcome and kindness. Please do not mistake me on this point. But I am personally triggered by someone judging me before they know me, or being told I’m somehow in the wrong before I have done anything but open my heart. I never, ever thought I’d encounter that here, even by one person. I’ve been reading your comments for years, IJ. And I never thought you’d behave this way.

    So, no, you had no right to do what you did. Period. And here it is, morning, and I’m still shaking and upset. Perhaps your having bad experiences that had nothing to do with me makes that just dandy.

    But stick to your guns. Make excuses. Complain that you were justified. And no, I won’t say one more word, I promise, since I will then be relegated to the Thunderdome for being a troublemaker, upsetting the peace of the Lounge. And I have no interest in engaging with you further.

    Yeah, I perhaps I overreact. Having a lousy childhood, being the black sheep all your life , and being bipolar … that will do it to you. Some … perhaps even most … of you will understand. Putting myself out and then being judged … that has happened far too many times in my life for me to overlook,

    Thanks again to Chris, Caine, Tony, rq, Dalillama, and all those others who were kind and defended me and urged me to come back. It is truly appreciated. But I can’t be around when IJ is still making excuses because I was new and he is a regular whose judgment should be trusted.

    This is really it, I promise. I was always the troublemaker as a kid, because I was different. I will not remain to be called that again. And after this, I’m sure you won’t want me around, anyway, since I’m a stranger and IJ is a good friend.

    Written in hurt and anger, probably a bad idea … (Oh, and I’m not anyone’s sock puppet. If you want my IP address, tell me how to get it, and I’ll send it to you.)

    Sue

  266. blf says

    Horses are almost always likelypretending to do your bidding

    Fixed. The buggers are just setting you up for pearmageddon.

  267. Portia says

    Good morning!

    Nothing like a fully-engulfed vehicle fire to start the day!
    I got home and looked in the mirror and found I had soot on my face. *mortified* ;)

    Joe
    I like you. I value your contributions. I understand why you were suspicious.

    Susan
    Please consider coming back to hang out with us if you need support. I’d be interested to hear more about your writing.

    rq
    *slides margarita pitcher down the counter, making shifty eyes and an innocent whistle*

  268. Portia says

    Susan:
    My comment was made about the same time as your last, so I didn’t see it before my post. Please don’t read it as “Yeah I know you explained in detail why you’re not going to comment here, but comment here.” Sorry if it came off wrong because of poor timing.

    I hope you can be well. Take care.

  269. Portia says

    Aaaaand one more comment to note that html-fail made it seem like I was yelling at Joe. Sorry, Joe.

  270. chigau (違う) says

    Sometimes I find the troll clean-ups quite disorienting.
    But I do like a tidy lounge.

  271. blf says

    Susan,

    You can of course do what you like.

    I myself missed the entire incidence that has obviously upset you. Based on what I have now read (well, actually, skimmed…), you are very much correct to be upset.

    My suggestion is to come back in a day or three after you’ve calmed down. That is, do not do anything rash, or in a hurry.

    And if you have a plate of cheese, watch out for a mildly deranged penguin zooming though… You can usually tell she’s been there by (1) The penguin-shaped holes in the halls; and (2) The penguin-shaped absence of cheese.

    Ok? Cheers! —blf

  272. blf says

    Walls. I meant walls. Not halls. Albeit the walls with penguin-shaped holes might indeed be the walls of halls.

    (I fink I need another of Tony’s lovely Margaritas…)

  273. The Mellow Monkey says

    Hey everybody. So…there have been rough times around here recently. I’ve been reading, but not commenting much. I’m just having some huge problems of my own and so haven’t had much energy to put together coherent thoughts here. Please take care of yourselves, old-y and newbie alike. :/

    Monkey love for you all. ♥

  274. rq says

    *passing emptier margarita pitcher to blf*

    Susan
    You are not being a trouble-maker for airing a grievance in the Lounge, for waht it’s worth – a lot of people come here to complain and to talk about negative things. The point in the Lounge being quiet is to keep infighting down for a quieter atmosphere. But you’re perfectly in the right to explain yourself here, and I appreciate you having the courage to return and do so.
    I hope you will try to return in a few days’ time, and I hope that, when Improbable Joe does apologize, that you will accept his apology, if you feel it has been made in good faith. That is… oh heck, you can decide for yourself what you want to do at that point. :/
    I apologize if we have ruined what seemed a safe space for you. Sorry. But we (at least, I) do want you around, because so far, it has been proved that everyone has had something to contribute at some point, and … really? The more, the merrier.
    (And no, not all of the regulars like each other as a matter of course, or because they’re regulars, or something… Some of us brave the Lounge even at the possibility of somebody unliked showing up. Because the rest of the company is worth it.)

    *rq-love for The Mellow Monkey*, should you want some in return: ♥

    Oh and thanks, Portia, for the margaritas. (And I certainly hope you washed your face, young lady! Fighting fires… *tsk tsk!!* ;) )

  275. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Observation that makes me sad:

    As of right now, the various Adria Richards threads have 3,626 comments. It is currently day 5.

    Those who predicted that this would turn into a THING like Elevatorgate, please step up and claim your prize.

  276. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    (your prize is a box of tissues and a troll-smiting hammer)

  277. Portia says

    rq
    I was washing it as you typed. ^ _ ^

    You’ll enjoy this: last night at the weekly fire meeting an officer said “Hey [Portia], here ya go!” and handed me a flyer. What was on it? Promotional material from a company that sells fire gear. This one was targeted at women. I don’t have to tell you what color the gear was, right? To top it off, it had pink ribbons on the flyer but I could see no connection whatever to raising money for any charity.

    It did get points for acknowledging my existence: “Not all firefighers are men…”

    Gee, no shit, Sherlock!

    At first, I thought, “The only time I actually don’t look female and thus get treated normally is when I’m in full gear. Why would I strap something to the outside that gives me away?” Then I was a little aghast at myself. Third thought was, well, even if I hate pink, not everyone does, and if performing a little femininity makes someone else happy, and they can find a way like this to fit it in with this over-macho environment…

    tl;dr: I overanalyzed a piece of paper. :)

    I realize there’s a risk of my car fire comment seeming flippant so I want to make clear that no one was injured.

  278. rq says

    Esteleth
    You said that, and my brain went *lightbulb* regarding all those 3d5k (or is it 5d3k?) comments people had a few days ago…

    Portia
    I don’t think you overanalyzed. I’d have had a similar reaction. But as you say, if it helps someone else get into it, yay for them – as long as it doesn’t go overboard into insisting that all women firefighters have to wear pink (you know, to make them more identifiable and be rescued first in the rubble :P).
    I’ve discovered I have an aversion to pink because of what it means, not because it’s not a pretty colour (it can be – hot pink, at least, is very loud and attention-getting and I love it). I’ve been hating it because it means girly and giggles and all that other stuff associated with over-femininization (sp?). Also, I’ve been trying to send a message to the kids that girls don’t always like pink (or choose pink by default), because (Eldest, at least) they’ve been getting that message through socialization here.
    That being said, I recently had to go with Eldest to buy a birthday present for a girl who was having a party, and he specifically said he wants to buy her toy cars because she likes them (yes!), and picked out a lovely red Hot Wheels car, and an aqua green one (in addition to a princess book that makes sounds to go with the story). He also had a hot-pink one among his primary selections, but I told him he had to pick two, but in the end, the hot-pink shimmery one was too hot… and I bought it for myself. *blush*
    And I decided I want to start collecting Hot Wheels cars. The little ones. But in all colours.

  279. rq says

    Ooh, and Warning: Kid Story
    Another Thing I love about Middle Child as a person. When I put him down for his afternoon nap, he gets to pick a book/short story to read beforehand. What I love about this process is that, given the option (that is, end of the month = new issue), he’ll choose my science magazine over his picture books. Every time, and for about five days in a row. (And he asks questions about everything, too, so even though we mostly skim through the pictures, he gets to hear most of the concepts behind them, too.)

  280. Portia says

    I’ve been hating it because it means girly and giggles and all that other stuff associated with over-femininization

    I first remember feeling this way when I was five. Also a factor was that my older sister loved it and I was in a phase where I was very contrary. (Yeah…it’s been a long phase). Nowadays it’s both because I don’t like the connotations and because I’m not big on the color itself. I know it’s impossible to separate the two in my mind completely at this point.

    he wants to buy her toy cars because she likes them

    Wonderful! Very cool. And neat that he is empathetic enough to actually take note of what she likes.

    .. and I bought it for myself. *blush*

    Fun! I got myself a toy fire truck a couple weeks ago. :D

  281. Portia says

    he’ll choose my science magazine over his picture books. Every time, and for about five days in a row. (And he asks questions about everything, too, so even though we mostly skim through the pictures, he gets to hear most of the concepts behind them, too.)

    That’s a really cool kid you’ve got there. What a great bonding time too, that he wants to ask questions of you about it. So fun

  282. says

    I swore up and down to myself that I wouldn’t post again, or raise this issue again, since I will probably be told to take it to the Thunderdome. After all, I’m upsetting everyone else with my whining, right?

    You’re not the only person who’s still upset about the raw deal you got last night, Susan. I hope you’ll consider visiting — perhaps in my threads here, which I (attempt to) moderate closely.

  283. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Susan,

    I hope you will decide to stick around. Honest. Give us another chance, if you feel comfortable about it in a couple of days.


    Joe,

    Please, just imagine how you would have felt if your and Susan’s positions were inverted.

    I was hesitating to write anything, because of our previous altercation, but I didn’t feel it was fair to address Susan without saying anything to you.
    Friends tell friends when they are hurting someone. No matter whether the third person is a friend or a stranger.

  284. Portia says

    According to Mormonfriend, this:

    Q Jay, the Italian highest court in Italy has reversed the verdict of Amanda Knox, who is now back in the United States. Is there any way the Obama administration would agree to the extradition of Amanda Knox so she could go — had to go back to Italy?

    MR. CARNEY: This is a legal matter that’s I think still in process. I just don’t have any comment on it, Bill. Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/03/26/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-3262013

    leads to this:

    “The White House leaves open the possibility of extradicting Amanda Knox to Italy to face a second murder trial after being acquitted by the Appeals Court.” So, let me get this straight: we are considering abandoning our treaty agreement with Italy and violating the U.S. Constitution by extraditing an American citizen to a foreign country that does not recognize double jeopardy . . . a country that already convicted someone else of the murder in questions . . . a country that recently convicted seismologists of manslaughter for failing to predict an earthquake. Yeah . . . that makes sense.

  285. cicely () says

    Welcome back, broboxley, and may the river not try to crawl out of its bed and into yours.
    :)
     

    Also I am presented with TMI immediately upon meeting, I smile and nod sagely and change the subject quickly but it always drifts back to their (insert relationship here) problems and asking for advice. Strange

    Not so strange; you’ve accidentally wandered onto a Gowachin jury, that’s all. You are not safe there, however; out-of-hand execution is possible. Be alert!
    -
    Hi, Susan; welcome in!
     
    I wish Spring would go ahead and settle in, here; my toes are freezing.
     
    Maybe your two weeks off will let you catch your breath, reset your stress levels?
    -
    Also welcome in, Kitterbethe.
    -

    (Am I really being so obscure?)

    Not so obscure that I didn’t get it…but nobody else who’s new to the [Lounge] has had to pass this particular test.
     
    The peas and Horses test, however, is a whole ‘nother subject.
    :)
    -

    I would say that goes doubly so here, because of the social nature of the Lounge. While we may be uncertain if someone presents themselves in bad faith, part of “being kind” may entail extending the benefit of the doubt further than other threads.

    My view as well, Tony. On the other hand, I haven’t been relentlessly badgered and abused in the most recent MRA-infested threads; if I had been, I would (in the current circumstances, with trolls attempting to set up a base camp in the [Lounge]) be wary, too.
     
    Short form: I can sympathise with (if not hold by) both views.
    -

    Plus, I do actually have a ridiculous funny knife story!

    So, let fly, already!

    No one reads my blog, lets alone comments on it. There’s dozens of you who talk to me here, but my blog is a barren wasteland.

    *hrrrrumph!*
    I click in there every day (Uncalled-For Dramas permitting), Joe! I am seriously considering being Deeply Offended. I may even Take Umbrage.
     
    Not sure where I’d take it, but definitely somewhere.
    -
    *arrrg!*
    I see no reason why we can’t have chocolate in our peanut butter, and peanut butter in our chocolate.
    -

  286. rq says

    Ew, no chocolate / peanut-butter crosses allowed! Take it with your Umbrage and… well, be Creative.

  287. Portia says

    *waves at cicely*
    *offers margaritas*
    rq didn’t drink all of them nor did the MDP. Better be quick though, the two of them are eyeing the bottle of tequila now…

  288. says

    TW for victim-blaming

    .
    .
    .

    I’m so fucking pissed at NDSU (specifically, the NDSU police department) right now. They sent these crime-warning e-mails sometimes, and yesterday they sent one about a sexual assault having been reported. At the bottom of that e-mail, was the following bullshit:

    the University Police continues to remind all members of the campus the importance of safety measures such as the walking with a buddy system, avoiding contact with strangers, and immediately reporting suspicious individuals or situations to law enforcement.

    “avoid contact with strangers”; at a university with students from all over the world. ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME HOW THE FUCK IS THAT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE POSSIBLE?!

    *rage*

  289. Brother Ogvorbis, Fully Defenestrated Emperor of Steam, Fire and Absurdity says

    Jadehawk:

    Nothing to the men saying, y’know, don’t rape? get enthusiastic consent? Assholes.

  290. Portia says

    Mmmmmojitos. Yeah. Actually, I’m craving chocolate. But I’ve been trying to be good about what I eat lately. : p no fun..

    Jadehawk:
    I remember seeing posters like that in college…the “buddy system” ones were everywhere. It gets so old. They didn’t tell us not to talk to strangers, though…that just seems like a weird thing to say to what is ostensibly an audience of adults.

  291. Brother Ogvorbis, Fully Defenestrated Emperor of Steam, Fire and Absurdity says

    And with Jay Jay over on the Arse thread, I’m taking a break before I brake me some more. Sorry. I think I set the little asswipe off and now I’m running away. Sorry. Not cool on my part.

  292. glodson says

    Ogvorbis, you did nothing wrong. He came here to be an asshole. He’s just an worthless asshole desperately seeking any validation he can get. We fed that troll until he exploded. Now he’s in a troll breakdown.

    You have nothing to be sorry for, all you did was tell the truth to a brat that couldn’t handle it.

    I am going to be positive today. My daughter is home sick, and we just played some Mario.

    A song for my daughter.

  293. says

    Nothing to the men saying, y’know, don’t rape? get enthusiastic consent?

    of course not

    I remember seeing posters like that in college…the “buddy system” ones were everywhere. It gets so old. They didn’t tell us not to talk to strangers, though…that just seems like a weird thing to say to what is ostensibly an audience of adults.

    yeah, that one seems to be new. which suggests to me it’s getting worse, at least around here, especially given that now they’re demanding things that are not just difficult and restrictive, they’re literally impossible: how’s a freshman from out-of-state, a transfer student, an international student, etc. supposed to avoid contact with strangers (not even “talking to” just any contact at all), when EVERYONE is a stranger, including your professors, your roommate, etc.?

    *rageragerage*

  294. says

    And with Jay Jay over on the Arse thread, I’m taking a break before I brake me some more. Sorry. I think I set the little asswipe off and now I’m running away. Sorry. Not cool on my part.

    take care of yourself *hugs and candy*

  295. Portia says

    Yeah, Jadehawk, that’s #safetytipsforladies quality. I think one of them was “Rape is usually committed by someone the victim knows. So don’t know anyone. Ever.” Sort of the inverse, but equally impossible. Don’t know anyone! Don’t not know anyone!

  296. Owlglass says

    Chris Clarke wrote: Meanwhile, I’m hesitant to encourage friends to comment on what is arguably my own goddamn blog, because no matter how thick their skin is they’ve got to get past this kind of mistrustful hazing — which is, incidentally, something PZ has expressly forbidden.

    It sucks, and it makes me feel embarrassed to be part of the dynamic here. You owe a number of apologies. Starting with Susan, should she come back.

    Well said, Chris.

  297. says

    Ogvorbis
    *hugs*. Not your fault, man, something else would have set him off soon enough.

    Jadehawk
    Of course, because it would be too threatening to the status quo to tell the guys “Safety tip, guys: Don’t rape, attack , threaten, or harass anyone, so that we can have a nice safe campus for all.”

  298. rq says

    Ogvorbis

    *hugs* and take care of yourself!
    You’re not running away, you are strategically retreating because that is what’s best for you, and that is more than ok!

    Jadehawk
    Seriously. Don’t talk to strangers? Why not just say Don’t go to classes?

  299. glodson says

    You’re not running away, you are strategically retreating because that is what’s best for you, and that is more than ok!

    This, so much so, Ogvorbis. This little jackass knows what he is doing in his posts. He ran out of tricks and now is just trying to maliciously trigger people.

  300. says

    Better than just plain old equal: The Maddow Blog has helpfully posted lots of versions of the “equal” symbol that the Human Rights Campaign suggested people use to replace their Facebook photos.

    One of the suggestions even uses kitties. Of course, one can use these graphic elements on blogs, websites, etc. instead of on Facebook.

    Here’s one for fans of The Walking Dead.

    And here’s one that is a painterly depiction of a heart with an equal sign in it. Nicely done.

  301. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Phew, got about 500 posts behind had to scan like mad to catch up.

    I saw the initial Susan post, and hoped we could help her. I do understand the problems troll infestations can cause, especially in the hair-trigger suspicion of every new poster, but I didn’t see any tells in Susan’s post that would indicated trolling. Come back Susan if you want. Chris has bunny videos.

    Back to the project work.

  302. Brother Ogvorbis, Fully Defenestrated Emperor of Steam, Fire and Absurdity says

    This little jackass knows what he is doing in his posts. He ran out of tricks and now is just trying to maliciously trigger people.

    It worked. I think the only reason I didn’t go full-blown on a panic attack is I had a walking tour with about 20 people (mixed audience) which means that I was thinking more of that than the little jackass. Of course, as soon as I was done, there went lunch.

  303. glodson says

    Well, he’s banned now. Might have a few sockpuppets to clean up. I am sorry he triggered you. I hate that little weasel caused harm.

  304. cicely () says

    Because is really fucking horrible to have been suicidal in front of you people, and when you disagree with me you dismiss it by bringing up my depression.

    Joe, I didn’t read it as being dismissive because of the depression, but instead as an advisory that depression (insidious beast that it is!) might be creeping up on you, with its lies. More a “heads up!” than anything else. ‘Cause Depression not only lies, it filters its victim’s inputs through a distorting lens, sometimes subtly, sometimes not.
     
    Or, as Dalillama said better.
    and also, what rq said, later.
    -
    *scritches* and moral support for WMDKitty in your upcoming wheelchair-related potential-unpleasantness.
    -

    I like the Abattoir House analogy. It reminds me of why I don’t watch most horror movies (now gore-porn), though; they’re not scary, they’re irritating. For instance, I don’t walk around my condo in the dark, but dumb horror movie soon-to-be corpses do. I walk into furniture instead of getting axe-murdered, but the principle is the same and it’s not to be wilfully stupid. So, as with dark places, if it just seems like it could be dangerous, I’ll shine light upon it. Or do horses scare easily with sudden illumination? I’d best not find out.

    And that puts you ahead of Mr. & Ms. Plot-Device, right there! Fools never seem to have a flashlight on ‘em when they go into the darkened house/cellar/spaceship/stable! Of course they’re going to be killed in nasty ways!
     
    Also, be advised that on this particular subject, you cannot afford to listen to rq, who is willingly in Their thrall (but in all other respects a wonderful person). Horses never do your bidding, and if it appears that they are, it’s only because you, quite coincidentally, want something that furthers Their agenda (i.e., brings the Equine Apocalypse closer); and They insert Dark Moments into your life in the hope that you will, in desperation, turn to Them. They also maliciously rearrange your furniture, and have been known to facilitate house fires. I hesitate to use the word “arson”, because that might be a legally actionable accusation (and anyway, They have no thumbs, so must rely on their digitally-enhanced minions for such…services), and I’m pretty sure that They have a well-stocked stable of Evil lawyers…but I find it suspicious that rq‘s house nearly burned down for nothing more than insufficiently propitiating Them.
    -

    Nothing like a fully-engulfed vehicle fire to start the day!
    I got home and looked in the mirror and found I had soot on my face. *mortified* ;)

    But not nearly as mortified as if you’d been on the inside of the vehicle fire, so I call that a “win”.
    -

  305. cicely () says

    *hugs* for the Mellow Monkey.
    Some days, you’re on the shit sandwich; others, the shit sandwich is on you.
    *pause*
    That probably actually works better as the bug/windshield analogy.
    -

    Another Thing I love about Middle Child as a person. When I put him down for his afternoon nap, he gets to pick a book/short story to read beforehand. What I love about this process is that, given the option (that is, end of the month = new issue), he’ll choose my science magazine over his picture books.

    :) :) :)
    -
    *taking pitcher*
    Thanks, Portia!
    I’ve been thinking about margaritas lately.
    A lot.
    -
    *hugs* for Ogvorbis.
    *wistfully*
    Wouldn’t some sort of emotional superglue be a nice thing to have?
    -

  306. Portia says

    But not nearly as mortified as if you’d been on the inside of the vehicle fire, so I call that a “win”.

    Quite true. It was blackened inside, I’ll tell you that.

  307. Brother Ogvorbis, Fully Defenestrated Emperor of Steam, Fire and Absurdity says

    Wouldn’t some sort of emotional superglue be a nice thing to have?

    I don’t think so. When I break, things tend to leak out and I end up, eventually, feeling marginally better. So far it is working better than spending the previous 35 years refusing to even acknowledge reality.

  308. Pteryxx says

    threadrupt, and likely to remain so for some time, so briefly:

    Susan: I’m sorry for your pain and hope you can find some peace, whether here or elsewhere. I saw your earlier comments on various threads. We’d be fortunate to have you join in.

    Joe: hope you will be okay, also, and you know friends tell you when you mess up. I’d like to hear more of your rambling musician-talk that I don’t understand.

    and a general PSA… it’s okay to be angry with people one cares about, but never to disrespect their pain. I’ll just note that one of the worst anti-feminist trolls in the Steubenville threads started using his childhood abuse to attack other commenters, and folks didn’t blow his story off even so. If they happen to be lying, so be it. That’s their moral failing, not being possessed of compassion.

    JAL, if you’re around, you have a mail.

  309. says

    Hiya, I don’t post here much. But, I know a bunch of you. I’m raising the Horde signal.

    So, Jessica Ahlquist has been under attack by hordes of abusive assholes since she tried to call out a bigoted anti-Muslim group on Facebook. She’s getting hate from fundie Christians, AND from “Freeze Peach” douchebro atheists, all over her page.

    I have left her some supportive messages, but I was wondering if others here would want to do the same?

  310. Portia says

    rqMy favorite:

    11. Attitydinkontinens, n.
    Definition: Literally meaning “attitude incontinence,” the term describes the inability to keep one’s opinions to oneself
    Used in an English sentence: “Sorry for that long comment I left on your post just now. I guess I had a temporary case of attitydinkontinens.”

    :D :D :D

  311. rq says

    Portia
    :D
    My favourites were:

    4. Nomofob, n.
    Definition: A person who feels anxious at the very thought of being separated from his or her mobile phone. (Adapted from the clunky English “no mobile phone phobia.”)
    Used in an English sentence: “I’d love to go swimming, but I can’t be in the water for very long — I’m sort of a nomofob.”
    10. Trädmord, n.
    Definition: Literally translating to “tree murder,” the term increased in usage in 2011, after several trees near Stockholm were either damaged or poisoned, causing them to die. Can be adopted, however, to describe excessive and/or wasteful use of paper and packaging.
    Used in an English sentence: “Hey, guys, whose 80-page article is on the printer? Trädmord!”
    14. Nakenchock, n.
    Definition: Literally “naked shock,” the term could refers to the shock you get when clicking on a link that leads you, unsuspectingly, to images of people who are less than clothed. The other side of NSFW.
    Used in an English sentence: “Don’t click that link! You’ll get a nakenchock.”

    … and the one about parking isn’t bad, pretty useful for the most part! ;)

  312. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    “Normal” people? Mostly “normal” people?
    Do you ask coworkers you don’t know all that well personal information about other coworkers? Like, marital status, age and similar.
    I find it intrusive and uncomfortable to be asked all this about a colleague. I can’t decline to answer because I’ll look like a weirdo, but it just seems too nosy and impolite to me.

  313. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Oh, and then there is commenting on looks. I know that people do that, but I am also reminded of that high school bull where every word about someone else can be used against you.
    I feel really uncomfortable discussing relative attractiveness of any of my coworkers. Doing it with my friend in private is another thing, but with other women from work? There’s just something iffy about it. [related to my previous comment] Even though I find a colleague of one of these women really attractive, I would never start discussing him with her or ask for info about him . (Maybe that explains why I’m single)

    Yeah, I’m not fit for dealing with people. :/

  314. rq says

    *hugs*, Beatrice! :( Crappy work environment is crappy. *passes margarita pitcher*

    Good night, all! *hugs* and good wishes to all who want/need/require, may be replaced with form of comfort of choice!

  315. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    rq,

    They are asking a fairly innocuous question, and not wanting to answer might make me look strange. I think. I know that I’m weird, I don’t want to appear completely unsociable. A lot of them (people who started workiing at the same time I did) already know each other, and I’m only now starting to chat a bit.

    I only went home with them two days in a row and I already regret it. I can’t do mindless chatter unless it’s with someone I’m open and friendly with.

  316. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Good night, rq!

    re. bad work environment

    I don’t think it’s bad or that they are bad people. I would guess they’re just an average group of coworkers, I just don’t know how to behave.
    I think I used to be better at this. It feels like I’m completely shutting down as I get older.

  317. mildlymagnificent says

    Welcome susan. I was asleep on the other side of the world when you first appeared, so it’s a bit late. Come back if and when you want to.

    Some unequivocally good news. mr will be having a day and night away from the rehab centre. #1daughter decided that the best strategy was for us to go to her place. It’s a kind of H shape. Family room and kitchen across the middle, two bedrooms and other facilities in each of the longer sections. It was built specifically to accommodate a family with children and grandparents – but it’s perfect for us for now. We’re all together/available without being under each other’s feet.

    He now has a couple of walking groups a week, and they’ve started him in a “pre” running group. Lots of stretching and flexibility exercises there. He’s also started some easy weights work to get into some upper body strength therapy sooner rather than later. And his palate seems to be coming back – he’s also now on a normal diet, rather than minced or ‘mouli’ed food – though I doubt he’ll be cutting up steak or a chop any time soon. Drinking anything from a cup is pretty dicey – the hand/mouth coordination is pretty random. His speech is close to normal. The memory is pretty good, all things considered. He can remember most things about day to day matters and from one day to the next. The month in hospital is almost entirely a blank, as is a lot of things from a few weeks before the attack. So it looks as though he’s going to finish up with a fairly typical brain injury induced amnesic hole for the weeks immediately before and after the event.

    So we’re all pretty happy just now.

  318. chigau (違う) says

    mildlymagnificent
    That is all good news and it sounds very promising.
    *hugs*

  319. Portia says

    Night rq!

    Beatrice:

    I find it intrusive and uncomfortable to be asked all this about a colleague.

    That is a reasonable reaction, imo. It definitely depends on the existing relationships in question, and it doesn’t sound like they’re all the cozy, from your description. Maybe an abrupt subject change, a la Captain Awkward?

    mildlymagnificent:
    So happy to hear about good progress. *hugs*

  320. says

    Susan:

    And after this, I’m sure you won’t want me around

    Not true, at least not on my part. Also, don’t be afraid of Thunderdome, it’s another open thread is all, where you don’t have to be careful of your words. A lot of us share many of your experiences (I certainly do), and would enjoy talking with you and getting to know you. Also, the best refuge threads are Chris Clarke’s, he’s very attentive in moderating and uses bunnification, which makes everyone feel better, even me.

  321. Portia says

    carlie:
    that site made me laugh. Especially the “avocados are nature’s butter” bit. I always say that! :)
    The “bitch” frequency is almost balanced out by all the peas ;)

  322. ednaz says

    From Way Back In The Thread
    -

    Caine and chigau – I LOVE The Art Nouveau Lorgnette Pendant. It is beautiful. I would love to have a necklace with a hidden magnifying lens. I’ll keep looking – and Thanks! for the gorgeous picture.
    -

    rq – Loves Music and Science…could you be any cooler? Really enjoyed the song and sent it to My Hoodlum. : ) Thank You!
    -

    At Christmastime I took a string of colored lights and made a heart for the upstairs window so My Hoodlum would see it when he came home from work.
    It was a big hit.
    Yesterday I made a pi symbol.
    When he came home I asked him if he liked his surprise. ‘What surprise?’
    ‘Go look at the lights.’
    ‘It’s too cold out. Just tell me what it is.’
    ‘pi’
    ‘You’re kidding?’ and out he went.
    It was a bigger hit. : )
    -
    It’s a good thing I have at least a month to think of the next symbol. : p

  323. says

    Wait, what? Monsanto needs legal protection now?

    ew.

    but people skeptical of corporate control of food genomes are anti-science, amirite?

  324. ednaz says

    IJoe, Your friends are still here.
    -
    I hope your stalker troll gets banned very soon.
    -
    Sending many *hugs* your way.

  325. David Marjanović says

    Only caught up till comment 120, except for some scrolling. Hugs and chocolate and happiness tea and sweet chai for Katherine Lorraine and Portia and Ogvorbis and iJoe and Jadehawk… and Susan, in the unlikely event she’s still reading. :-(

    Here is something totally awesome. Stephanie Zvan tweeted it earlier today. I think it’s a good antidote to what’s going on lately. Go ahead, click on the first sentence. You’ll be glad you did.

    I smiled.

    and on the first morning of the first day our beloved pasta God , FSM, created Peas, forever marking mornings as evil with the pea as the malevolent representation of that dreaded time of day.

    or in layman’s terms I dislike mornings too.

    I love mornings… when I’ve gone to bed early enough the evening before.

    That basically never happens anymore.

    He questions the meaning of resurrecting crafts and rituals of the past in search of cultural identity, we are after all not the same people as our ancestors and mimicking the practices of the past is no more meaningful than a renaissance fair.

    “Ethnicity is not fate, but goal.”
    – Book about the Migration Period that I was once told about.

    GUISE! DARKBABY ROLLED HERSELF OVER!

    Here she is, looking a little confused.

    I must visit later this year. I must.

    Our local NPR station is run out of Rexburg, from the Brigham Young University-Idaho campus. This means that all the announcers are obligated to use long versions of the titles of mormon bigwigs when they report their version of local news.

    ARGH! X-)

    telling someone you hate pizza is generally considered an act of heresy

    Welllll, I don’t like cheese, and I don’t like tomatoes. That basically leaves dry dough with salami. No undercooked mushrooms for me either.

    Darkbaby’s Huh?/wtf face is adorable.

    …Can neurotypics tell for sure, from that photo alone, that that’s a huh/WTF face? To me, the Darkbaby looks 1) unhappy she’s lying on her left arm and to some extent the toy (“What. There I go, performing acrobatics, and I’m still not holding the toy in my hands. This sucks. Come on, universe, it’s not funny.”) and simultaneously 2) curious about the camera.

    ~:-|

    I still remember when my little brother learned to roll – it became his primary means of locomotion. He didn’t bother with crawling much, because he could just roll wherever he wanted.

    *squee*

    having been driven onto the tarmac in complete contravention of airport security rules

    I probably shouldn’t post in public what I immediately thought of.

    We’re still legislating and regulating private morality, while at the same time ignoring the much larger crisis of public morality in America.

    This belongs in a State of the Union Address.

    found to be benign

    *happy happy joy joy*

  326. David Marjanović says

    Oh! I forgot to post what was sent to the Dinosaur Mailing List a few hours ago!

    Nao Kusuhashi, Yukiyasu Tsutsumi, Haruo Saegusa, Kenji Horie, Tadahiro
    Ikeda, Kazumi Yokoyama and Kazuyuki Shiraishi (2013)
    A new Early Cretaceous eutherian mammal from the Sasayama Group, Hyogo, Japan.
    Proceedings of the Royal Society B 280 (1759): 20130142 (advance
    online publication)
    doi: 10.1098/rspb.2013.0142
    http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/280/1759/20130142.abstract

    We here describe a new Early Cretaceous (early Albian) eutherian mammal, Sasayamamylos kawaii gen. et sp. nov., from the ‘Lower Formation’ of the Sasayama Group, Hyogo Prefecture, Japan. Sasayamamylos kawaii is characterized by a robust dentary, a distinct angle on the ventral margin of the dentary at the posterior end of the mandibular symphysis, a lower dental formula of 3–4 : 1 : 4 : 3, a robust lower canine, a non-molariform lower ultimate premolar, and a secondarily reduced entoconid on the molars. To date, S. kawaii is the earliest known eutherian mammal possessing only four premolars, which demonstrates that the reduction in the premolar count in eutherians started in the late Early Cretaceous. The occurrence of S. kawaii implies that the relatively rapid diversification of eutherians in the mid-Cretaceous had already started by the early Albian.

    ^_^

    Too bad it’s behind a paywall, so I can’t find out right now if the name means what I think it means. ^_^

    Normally, eutherians have five premolars. Sea cows may still do, it’s a bit difficult to tell. Eutheria = Placentalia + everything closer to it than (to) Marsupialia.

  327. David Marjanović says

    Also recently posted to the DML, also by the indefatigable Ben Creisler who reads ALL THE JOURNALS so we don’t have to:

    Douglas S. Robertson, William M. Lewis, Peter M. Sheehan & Owen B. Toon (2013)
    K-Pg extinction: Reevaluation of the heat-fire hypothesis.
    Journal of Geophysical Research: Biogeosciences (advance online publication)
    DOI: 10.1002/jgrg.20018
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrg.20018/abstract

    The global debris layer created by the end-Cretaceous impact at Chicxulub contained enough soot to indicate that the entire terrestrial biosphere had burned. Preliminary modeling showed that the reentry of ejecta would have caused a global infrared (IR) pulse sufficient to ignite global fires within a few hours of the Chicxulub impact. This heat pulse and subsequent fires explain the terrestrial survival patterns in the earliest Paleocene, because all the surviving species were plausibly able to take shelter from heat and fire underground or in water. However, new models of the global IR heat pulse as well as the absence of charcoal and the presence of noncharred organic matter have been said to be inconsistent with the idea of global fires that could have caused the extinctions. It was suggested that the soot in the debris layer originated from the impact site itself because the morphology of the soot, the chain length of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and the presence of carbon cenospheres were said to be inconsistent with burning the terrestrial biosphere. These assertions either are incorrect or have alternate explanations that are consistent with global firestorms. We show that the apparent charcoal depletion in the Cretaceous-Paleogene layer has been misinterpreted due to the failure to correct properly for sediment deposition rates. We also show that the mass of soot potentially released from the impact site is far too low to supply the observed soot. However, global firestorms are consistent with both data and physical modeling.

    ===

    Press release:
    http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2013/03/27/cu-study-provides-new-evidence-ancient-asteroid-caused-global-firestorm

  328. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    but people skeptical of corporate control of food genomes are anti-science, amirite?

    I wish the “OH MAH GAWERD IT R NOT TEH NATURALS IT R EAT MAH BABBY!!!!!111111!!” fuckheads would shut up so some of the rational criticism could get a hearing, maybe. >.>

  329. says

    What Azkyroth said.

    GMO is nothing new, it’s just that we used to do it via selective breeding and cross-breeding of crops.

    I take issue with the idea of patenting a DNA sequence.

  330. says

    dongiovanni @390
    Can’t speak for anyone else, but I loved transgressing boundaries (never read anything else, don’t have enough phyics). May check out some more docs tomorrow.
    Making physical reality a linguistic construct, and boundary conditions the question of how boundaries are crossed :-)

    My God, 1996, is that nearly 20 years ago? Seems like it was just the other day…

  331. broboxley OT says

    Jadehawk, that notice seems very like the people from here. Go all boy scout, harrumph and rule bearing while pretending that its not their friends and neighbors doing the stalking.

  332. Portia says

    *waves at DLC*
    *waves at DDMFM* :)

    My shoulders are killing me. Wore the damn airpack for too long this morning (I complain here because if I mention it to anyone associated it’ll be a mark in the “girls are weak” column).

    My mom just said she might come see me tomorrow or the next day. Instead of in a few weeks. I’m so happy. I have been positively aching for her company. And for some meatspace interaction that makes me feel happy and loved and comforted. Just thinking about it makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

  333. DLC says

    Portia, I’ll mark it in the “everyone has limits” column and find a massage therapist for you.

  334. Portia says

    That’s very kind, DLC, thank you. :)

    I bet there’ll be neat images from the cosmic event.

  335. Portia says

    O.o
    1 in 2000 seems like really high odds (must…avoid…obvious…pun) for that sort of thing.

    “Spacefaring” …I learned a new word! I like it.

  336. says

    I made the phone call. To the wheelchair place. They’re going to call me back on Tuesday to get me scheduled. I was very clear about calling in the afternoon, and I’m hoping they respect that because, well… I’m not what you’d call “coherent” on waking, especially before noon.

  337. rq says

    WMDKitty
    Yay for making the phone call! I hope they’re awesome with fixing whatever is wrong, and that it happens quickly! *scritches*

    mildlymagnificent
    That is absolutely awesome news, and definitely warrants a shower of *confetti!ribbons!fireworks!* (potential fire hazard, I know, but they’re so cool)!
    I am relieved to hear that he is well on his way, and that you have excellent temporary living arrangements with #1daughter. *hugs*

    Portia
    … But it’s totally ok for the guys to go home to Wife/Girlfriend/Mother (or, to the bar with the other guys) and loudly complain about how difficult their day was, and how heavy that airpack was, and they just had to carry it for so long. That’s a man rightfully complaining about the Man’s Work he did today, not like those Weak Women who just can’t handle it…
    This isn’t sounding like a good morning, considering everyone was up before 7 for… no reason at all!!!! (I’m half-smiling.)

    DLC
    Thanks for that link, and I hope it happens, too – as long as it doesn’t dislodge any particularly large, earth-directed chunks from Mars. 1 in 2000 seems a bit large, on the cosmic scale…

    ednaz
    You are awesome.
    That is all.

    +++

    re: the Bad-Ass Vegetable link
    In the first paragraph, they say that

    But did you know just one cup of spinach is over 300% of your daily recommended Vitamin A?

    … Umm, isn’t it bad to overdose on Vitamin A…?

    re: Monsanto
    Technically, I have no issues with genetic modification. Sometimes, though, I’m a bit wary of the kind of modification that is made, and also – that whole patenting-genes thing, yeah, don’t like that. Something about genetic material being corporate-owned (as mentioned by WMDKitty and Azkyroth above) makes me reeeeally uncomfortable. Especially since now, legally, Monsanto is protected from… whatever it needed protection from in the first place, being such a small and fragile little company just trying to break away from the competition… Right.

  338. DLC says

    I’m sure they’ll re-figure the odds with more data. whatever happens it’ll be interesting to watch, from a long ways off. And we have instruments already there to watch with.

  339. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    *sigh* the word “retarded” is so phonetically satisfying. Any suggestions for a phonetically similar replacement that doesn’t have the splash damage?

  340. says

    *sigh* the word “retarded” is so phonetically satisfying. Any suggestions for a phonetically similar replacement that doesn’t have the splash damage?

    “bedeppert”. german word that at worst means “stupid”, usually more like “stunned” or “speechless”. but it’s german, so it sounds worse than it is, is phonetically very satisfying to throw at fuckweasel-heads, and they won’t know that you merely called them deeply confused :-p