The important things in life

Luis Martinez stopped at the Subway sandwich shop and ordered this thing they call a Philly Cheesesteak…and he ordered it with ketchup. The Subway worker, Lawrence Ordone, objected.

"That’s when I flew off the handle," said Ordone.

"He shoved a chair to the side, like knocked it down to come at me, and I said, ‘This is going to be serious,’" said Martinez.

"I said, ‘Let’s go, fight me like a man,’" said Ordone.

"I was scared. Next thing, I’m thinking a gun’s going to come out," said Martinez.

Ordone said he blocked the customer so he couldn’t get out.

"He threatened to kill me in front of my wife," said Martinez.

These are important issues that a man should engage in battle over: everyone KNOWS that a true Philly cheesesteak is served with ketchup and fried onions. The abomination that the Subway serves lacks both. And now we have learned that Subway employees are willing to fight to the death to preserve their heresy.

Oh, and American cheese? Pffft. It’s supposed to be Cheez-Whiz.

By the way, Ordone was fired — Subway apparently objects to their employees assaulting customers. They still, however, refuse to serve ketchup.

Comments

  1. says

    DAMMIT! I worked at subway for months and I never even thought of assaulting any of the obnoxious customers :( ;p

    I did have a fellow employee nice guy but a bit strange, he was always trying to convince people the honey mustard we had was awful and talk them out of putting it on their subs (no assault though).

  2. Louis says

    Why this is a bigger problem than misogyny and racism and homophobia combined! Finally, PZ, finally you have pulled your head from your ivory tower, PC, thought police feminazi arse and started to focus on the REAL issues.

    Next I hope that you’ll discuss the details of the Grand Slam and why double bacon just isn’t enough.

    Louis

    P.S. Do I need a…? Yes, yes I probably do. For those of a sarcasm-blind nature, either by dint of lack of ability or presence of unfortunate ideology, I am taking the piss. Not serious. Mocking the fools who recently (recently?!) dismiss serious problems with trivia of their own. Don’t get me wrong, the bigfoot-sceptics have work to do, but it’s not as important as scepticism about social mechanisms etc. Or the bacon limit on important foodstuffs in the USA.

  3. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    I could have understood a dispute over mayonnaise. If there is no mayonnaise I will cut someone. But ketchup?

  4. says

    I can see getting into a fist fight over the catchup, ketchup, whatever, but it’s RAW onions, and plenty extra at that…
    RUN!!!

  5. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Imagine my surprise when my wife and I arrived in Brazil and found that they eat their pizza with mayo. And yet not once was I aroused to feelings of violence! Let this stand as a plea for culinary tolerance!

  6. ChasCPeterson says

    Cheese was a scarce resource indeed on the Pliocene savannahs of Africa. The particular condiment a caveman’s cavewoman put on his daily gnusteak-n-cheese sammich was an important marker of tribal identity. Cavemen were routinely flint-shivved for much less. It’s in our genes.

  7. says

    On some level*, I could understand the customer getting a little irritated at the lack of ketchup, but what they hell does the “sandwich artist” care what someone gets on their sandwich? Maybe he thought the customer was fucking with him intentionally?

    *Grilled onions and mushrooms, sriracha, mozzarella cheese, and a pickle on the side. There is no substitute.

  8. vaiyt says

    Imagine my surprise when my wife and I arrived in Brazil and found that they eat their pizza with mayo.

    They also put catchup on their hot dogs AND their pizza. Trufax.

  9. Uncle Ebeneezer says

    Former Philly resident here. For what it’s worth, while the original cheesesteak places Pat’s and Geno’s) use cheez-whiz, most places in Philly serve them nowadays with provolone or white American. Provolone, imo, is the best because it allows you to taste the meat better, unlike whiz, which overwhelms the taste buds and gets really messy. I like them with just a little bit of fried onions. No peppers and certainly no ketchup. People who get them with tomatoes or lettuce, are crazy, but it’s not something I would get into a fight over.

  10. says

    There’s a restaurant I’ve gone to a few times that has a notation on its menu: “Please do not order a steak well-done.” It’s nice that they wrote “please,” but how I want my steak is my own damned business, guaranteed under the religious freedom provisions of the First Amendment. And bring me ketchup, too! (I’m willing to pretend I want them for the fries, if it’ll make anyone feel any better. I’m not a fanatic.)

  11. Ze Madmax says

    From the article:

    “He wants ketchup on the Philly cheese steak and I have never put — we don’t even have ketchup at Subway — I’ve never put ketchup on anybody’s sandwich,” said Ordone.

    Martinez said he didn’t want the sandwich without the ketchup and that a man next to him in line offered to buy the sandwich.

    [...]

    Ordone said he was fired from his job Wednesday, and that he is baffled the confrontation started over something as simple as ketchup.

    “There’s ketchup three aisles down. You can go buy your own ketchup, and I promise to God, you can put as much as you want on it and nobody’s going to say nothing,” said Ordone.

    Now, Ordone’s reaction still seems to be way too strong… but I can see why people would be frustrated for making a sandwich, and then have the customer say they don’t want it because of a lack of a specific condiment. Particularly at Subway, where you don’t order the whole thing at once, but rather do it in steps, so by the time you get to condiments, the sandwich is already made.

    On the other hand, another customer did offer to buy the sandwich, so… I dunno. But based on the article, it seems less “weird randomness” and more “straw (sandwich?) that broke the camel’s back” kind of situation.

  12. Beatrice says

    I have seen people put ketchup on pizza.

    *shakes head sadly*
    People are capable of horrible things.

  13. says

    Just listened to the interview with Ordone. According to him, he didn’t fly off the handle because the customer wanted ketchup, he flew off the handle because Martinez was angry and he started trash talking him. He then blocked Martinez from leaving because Martinez said something he interpreted as a threat to come back with a gun. He also claims he never threatened to kill Martinez, but did challenge him to a fight. Martinez also reports feeling afraid, not only about a gun coming out then, but about the fight coming to his house and him being attacked at home with a gun. It must be a pretty scary place to live, when a customer service issue could credibly escalate into a gun fight.

  14. Louis says

    Ibis3,

    But if you take away their right to gun fights over ketchup the Americans will lose their Freedom or something. I’m sure I read that somewhere.

    Louis

  15. says

    I always put ketchup on hot dogs.

    Provolone is an acceptable substitution for the cheez-whiz. See? I’m not dogmatic about these things.

  16. unclefrogy says

    it just goes to show you WE really do need more concealed carry laws so citizens can protect themselves when going about their lawful business. Because when you want catchup you want catchup!
    uncle frogy

  17. shouldbeworking says

    I once ordered a hamburger while i was in a certain country on the opposite side of the equator. The employee asked if I wanted beet root on it. Ketchup is an abomination, beet root is almost a declaration of war.

  18. Rumtopf says

    Oh wow, I’m gonna try me some beetroot in a burger. I like burgers, I love beetroot. Why haven’t I put them together before. D: I didn’t know ketchup and pizza was weird either. I wouldn’t put it directly on and all over the pizza, because it would get all warm and ewwy, but as a dip and especially for crusts, I like it. The grossest-to-me thing I ever saw was a spaghetti bolognese sandwich with mayo in Tesco.

  19. says

    Wow, I was scrolling back and saw Josh’s comment about mayonnaise, and was thinking “mmmm sriracha sauce, maybe I should make a hot dog” and I think I just invented srirachannaise. I mean, if people can make mustard+mayonnaise (which is actually good!) why not srirachannaise? Has anyone tried this before? I’d ask The Oatmeal except he’s too buried to read emails unless they’re from Charles Carreon.

  20. Rumtopf says

    If sriracha is anything like piri piri sauce, it’s effing delicious mixed with mayonnaise.

  21. hotshoe says

    shouldbeworking -
    I’d say you missed a chance at a fabulous taste experience. On this coast of USA, we can’t get an Australian hamburger unless we make it ourselves. About a decade ago in the “big city” there was a good restaurant (no longer there) which specialized in steak and lamb but at lunch offered the complete Australian hamburger: beef patty topped with fried egg, slice of pineapple, slices of pickled beets, fried onions, and bacon.

    I still dream of that lunch. Total package of savory, salty, a little sweet, a little spicy, a little earthy … could not remove any of the elements and still retain its perfection.

    I bet even a Philly cheesesteak would be improved by the complex flavor of pickled beet slices, And cut the grease a little, too.

  22. says

    Cheese steak with kimchee is also good. I used to work at this hospital that was near a really weird korean deli that seemed to specialize in putting kimchee in anything. It’s good on a hamburger, too.

  23. shouldbeworking says

    I did have the pineapple and fried egg on the burger. Dill pickles are great, but beets? I don’t like borscht either.

  24. zekehoskin says

    I personally think that ketchup makes any food except Kraft Dinner worse. That said, a restaurant in a ketchupivorous country not having the National Condiment? Weird. It would be like getting a coffee in Turkey and their not letting you put sugar in it.

  25. says

    @Rumtopf – probably a lot like. It’s a “red peppers and garlic” sauce that’s pretty hot. It has a very bright punchy flavor with a lingering burn. You can eat a jeep if you use enough sriracha on it.

  26. UnknownEric says

    Looks like he fell behind and needed to… ketchup?

    Yeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhh!

    (I stink at these meme thingies.)

  27. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Last time I went to Subway, I ordered a footlong meatball marinara. The clerk said, “No. That is filled with fat.”

    I said, “I’m the customer, that’s what I want.”

    The Sandwich Artist then said, “And I’m your daughter. You can’t have that.”

    So I had ham and turkey.

    Wasn’t as good. Not enough fat.

  28. consciousness razor says

    I mean, if people can make mustard+mayonnaise (which is actually good!) why not srirachannaise? Has anyone tried this before?

    After your first comment, I was going to recommend whole-grain horseradish mustard with the sriracha. I don’t know about hot dogs, but it’s good with all sorts of stuff. I’ve never had to name it. I dub it “Razor Sauce.”

  29. hotshoe says

    Actually, it’s ketchup. According to Heinz, and they should know, being the world’s foremost supplier …

    But according to the OED, the earliest spelling in English was indeed catchup. Followed by citations for ketchup and catsup.

    So don’t be a word-policer on this particular word. Vive le difference.

  30. Pteryxx says

    srirachannaise

    This should be the official condiment of (most of) the Horde. Then y’all who hate either or both can have something to fight with the rest of us about. <3

    Sriracha deviled eggs, anyone? Also my crockpot is making overnight sriracha chili this evening, just so y'all know. *sproings off to kitchen*

  31. Shplane, Spess Alium says

    Hot dogs: Mustard, chili, maybe a little hot sauce
    Burgers: Only thing I’ll ever put ketchup on, but I don’t want you to drown the goddamn thing, especially since I also want mustard on it. Other toppings depend on my mood, but are mostly “bacon” and “any cheese besides American because I have taste, god damn it.”
    Fries: Salt and malt vinegar.
    Cheesesteak: Fried peppers & onions, cheddar cheese, A1 Steak Sauce because A1 is made of miracles. Sriracha sounds pretty cash too, and I’ll have to try that.

  32. Shplane, Spess Alium says

    Whoops no, meant “grilled peppers & onions”.

    And pulled pork BBQ needs a thin, vinegar-based sauce. None of this molasses-ey sweet bullshit.

  33. says

    It’s my understanding that the big names in Philly cheesesteaks prefer the provolone. Having tried the Cheez Whiz, I am forced to conclude that it’s good on a cheesesteak pizza, but vastly overrated on the sandwich.

  34. johnmarley says

    That’s strange. It’s been almost 20 years now, but iirc from the year I spent living in Philadelphia, cheesesteaks are available with a wide range of toppings, including, *shudder*, mayonnaise.

  35. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Loves mine with mayonnaise.

    And yes, Marcus, sriracha and mayo go well together!

  36. machintelligence says

    Ketchup is no longer the number one American condiment. From Wikipedia:

    Over time, consumers preferences turned toward Mexican foods, such as salsas, and in 1991, Mexican sauces overtook ketchup as the top-selling condiment in the United States in total dollar sales, with Pace Picante sauce and salsa taking the lion’s share of the market.[4]

    Even better is Hatch green chile sauce. Almost anything tastes better with green chile.
    http://www.505chile.com/

  37. Louis says

    Proper Philly cheesesteak must turn the brown paper bag translucent with fat from what I remember from my time living in the USA ~18 or so years ago.

    IIRC it should be provolone, fried onions, fried mushrooms, fired peppers and A1 sauce. Any deviation from this formula is to be punishable by death. Minimum.

    Apparently. Or so I was informed by my Cultural Attaché who was informing me about many wonderful aspects of the USA by taking me to places and proceeding to get very drunk with me. First place he ever took me he said was really classy, a proper slice of American life, a real insight into the American Dream and the way it was over there.

    We went to Hooters in Buffalo.

    In my defence I only noticed what Hooters is (presumably) famous for after some wings. We’d been to a few bars beforehand and my observation skills were mildly dulled. I couldn’t quite work out what all these rather attractive women were doing being strangely nice to me for, or why they were wearing the same outfits. Still, they had beer with them whenever I saw them, which seemed really very nice of them as I hadn’t (yet) paid them for any of it. I guess I wasn’t so much sexist as drunk out of my mind!

    Louis

  38. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Josh:
    You and I could never work as a couple.

    ::sniff:: you like mayo…gross

    ****
    Rev:
    Ketchup goes on hot dogs darnit!

  39. Arren ›‹ idée fixe oblique says

    @ Chas’ #10 & Caerie #42: double LMAO. Thanks.

    (Mayonnaise is an affront to everything good in the universe; ketchup is merely an affront to the glory of the tomato. Cheez Whiz is not a food by any stretch of the imagination.

    Huzzah to Sriracha and Grey Poupon!)

    [/indefensibly vehement subjective culinary pronouncements]

  40. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Pteryxx@38:
    I am going to be the Black Shoop of the Horde then, cuz no mayo goes into my belly. Sriacha is good though.
    Ketchup mixed with mustard on burgers or hot dogs. Occassionally, I put BBQ sauce on a burger.

  41. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Arren:
    Cheez whiz is fun to put on your dogs nose.

  42. Beatrice says

    I eat mayonnaise, but only in moderation. Drowning salads or sandwiches in it is gross.

  43. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Audley:
    But you are not pregnant anymore. You shouldn’t have these strange cravings (assuming you did when you were pregnant)

  44. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    To test the greatness of mayo, we shall feed cicely peas tossed in mayo. If she survives the experience without trauma, mayo will be king.

  45. Arren ›‹ idée fixe oblique says

    @ Tony

    I’ll take your word for it — I’m a cat person. The very idea of buying Cheez Whiz (or Slim Jims, or SPAM, or bologna….. any of that shit) fills me with revulsion. I really shouldn’t get so worked up about it, but we all have our peccadillos, I suppose.

  46. jba55 says

    I’ve never understood why people get so bent out of shape over how others eat certain things. That being said, I’ve never even heard of ketchup on a steak and cheese, doesn’t sound like something I’d enjoy though. I do however put it on hot dogs and burgers. Dammit, now I want a burger.

  47. Andy Groves says

    When in Philadelphia, one should abjure cheesesteaks regardless of the cheese that adorns them and instead eat hot pork sandwiches with sharp provolone and broccoli rabe. For it is written.

  48. says

    The Sandwich Artist then said, “And I’m your daughter. You can’t have that.”

    A twist worthy of M. Night Shyamalan.

    He was Dad the whole time!

  49. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Audley:
    Catsup on oatmeal? Pancakes? Waffles?

  50. says

    It’s a good thing that Martinez didn’t have a gun on him, or this could have ended really badly.
    Honestly, if somebody attacked me over condiments, I’d assume my life was at stake. If they’re willing to go that far for so little, I’d have a hard time imagining what they wouldn’t do.

  51. consciousness razor says

    It’s a life-long love of ketchup. Seriously, you should watch me order breakfast in a diner- my goal is to have as many foods as possible that I can blanket in ketchup.

    Mmmm… french toast and ketchup.

  52. yubal says

    I thought philly cheese steak comes with a bowl au juice some kind of onion beef broth to dip it in?

  53. Rodney Nelson says

    Mayonnaise is good on french fries. The only condiments allowed on hot dogs are mustard and pickles (chili and sauerkraut are not condiments). Ketchup is acceptable on hamburgers but I’d rather go without (pickles, mustard, lettuce and tomato adorn my hamburger if I have any say in the matter). Marmite and vegimite are not food but industrial waste.

  54. ChasCPeterson says

    how do we know you’re not just copying somebody else’s condiment preferences?

  55. betelgeux says

    I lost my faith in humanity when putting ranch dressing on pizza became a fad during my high school years.

  56. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Ok, so preliminaries are done. Now the main event:
    What condiments go on…wings?

    Ok…go!

  57. says

    yubal #70

    I thought philly cheese steak comes with a bowl au juice some kind of onion beef broth to dip it in?

    No, you’re thinking of Italian Beef. Totally different.

  58. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Wife and I just made a batch of deviled eggs. Used mayo and two different kinds of mustard, some smoked salt, some butcher grind pepper and sweet pickles. Sprinkled some sweet Hungarian paprika over the top.

    Ended up with 23 of them.

  59. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I thought philly cheese steak comes with a bowl au juice some kind of onion beef broth to dip it in?

    No, you’re thinking of Italian Beef. Totally different.

    Or really French Dip.

    Italian beef the whole sandwich bread and all dunked in the jiuce then served, but usually not with a side of juice also.

  60. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I’m currently fermenting some nuclear 7 Pod Peppers for a sriracha style hotsauce. Only much much hotter.

  61. Strom und Drang says

    Even better is Hatch green chile sauce. Almost anything tastes better with green chile.

    +1 for your superb taste and refinement, machintelligence.

    I love Sriracha sauce and a similar sauce made by the same company that seems to consist of just macerated pickled peppers, no garlic.

  62. Pteryxx says

    psychodigger:

    I’m beginning to think your country is beyond salivation.

    fix’d. ;>

  63. Louis says

    Tony, #74:

    Hot sauce. Very, very, very hot sauce. Made to my own recipe from Dorset Naga chillies .

    Louis

  64. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    We went to Hooters in Buffalo.

    Dear cosmic muffin, no.

    Hooters may be “known” for its wings, but it should be rightfully known for how fucking bad they are.

    I’ve been to hooters twice.

    First time I met a guy who was painting my parents house there to discuss the job. His choice of location.

    Second time my wife said we should go there before the this monster truck thing she drug me to (don’t ask) because she thought it would be fitting of the night.

    It was.

    Ignoring the other main issue with Hooters, the food is fucking horrible.

  65. Louis says

    Alethea has just outed herself as an Australian.

    And not in the good way.

    Louis

    P.S. I knew we all knew, but there are degrees of knowing, if you know what I mean.

  66. Louis says

    Rev BDC,

    Agreed. The wings are bad.

    This friend of mine was, in his defence, joking. His lauding of Hooters was ironic. (Unlike another American chum of this time who bemoaned the clean up of Times Square NYC for reasons too vile for even me to go into)

    We went elsewhere to get good wings which, perhaps unsurprisingly were available in Buffalo. We never returned to Hooters.

    Louis

  67. says

    I love Sriracha sauce and a similar sauce made by the same company that seems to consist of just macerated pickled peppers, no garlic.

    Strom und Drang, I NEED the name of that sauce so I can go buy it now! Sriracha is too garlicky for me to eat very much of it. (I have a mild intolerance, sadly.)

  68. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Hot sauce. Very, very, very hot sauce. Made to my own recipe from Dorset Naga chillies .

    Do you ferment the peppers?

    Perhaps we should do a little exchange if your sauce is able to be shipped.

    I’m currently using these. My friend here in Charleston developed the strain himself. Hot as a motherfucker.

  69. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Strom und Drang, I NEED the name of that sauce so I can go buy it now! Sriracha is too garlicky for me to eat very much of it. (I have a mild intolerance, sadly.)

    Sambal olek

  70. silomowbray says

    Fu yi (fermented bean curd) –aka chao dofu– is for the ultimate win. If you have not partaken of this with a bowl of steaming hot congee, you are in a food wasteland. A wasteland.

  71. Louis says

    Rev BDC,

    I make one with fermented peppers and one without. Sadly I don’t grow the peppers myself. I haven’t whipped up a batch in ages, and I’ll have to wait until the peppers are in season again. I’ve always wanted to make a smoked pepper version, but I don’t have a smoker. Although now my wife and I have moved into our new house, we do have room for a small smoker in the garden….

    As for exchange, well, nothing grows on this sauce! Hell, nothing grows NEAR this sauce! It’s got the Scoville level of bear mace (okay not really, but you know where I’m going). I made two general kinds, a very hot but flavourful one for eating, and a ludicrous one for use when my Indian in-laws play silly games involving machismo. They do it occasionally and I have to introduce them to their limits, after a couple of Chivas Regals they forget they have them.

    The edible one is, in principle, quite easy to make. Make up a batch of the base sauce with various fruity chillies, hire Usain Bolt for an afternoon (he’s really very reasonable), equip dear old Usain with some thick black nitrile gloves and a metre long set of tongs and get him to run past the pot at full tilt with one chilli.

    For the inedible version for machismo silliness, get him to run back past it one more time.

    Easy.

    Louis

  72. Ogvorbis: useless says

    I do not remember what the stuff was called, but back in the mid-1970s, there was a hot sauce that one of my Navajo friends brought in which was both extremely hot and wonderfully flavoured. It was from Mexico, was green, and had garlic in it. No idea what it was, but it was fantastic. He ate it like it was ketchup (or catsup, or catchup, or ketsyup, or . . . ).

  73. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Yeah i don’t grow these either because the man who “invented” this pepper lives just around the corner and his entire yard is pepper plants. I am growing some other less incendiary peppers though. Hopefully going to try some ghost peppers and a few other this summer, though really pepper season is pretty much year round here in Charleston, SC so I’ll probably start in Feb .

    I plan on doing a smoked version myself and as things have it, I got a brand new smoked for my birfday this year.

  74. Strom und Drang says

    Strom und Drang, I NEED the name of that sauce so I can go buy it now! Sriracha is too garlicky for me to eat very much of it. (I have a mild intolerance, sadly.)

    Sambal olek

    Yes, that’s it! Many grocers around here stock it right next to the bottles of sriracha. It’s a beautiful sauce, speckled with whole chile seeds.

  75. Louis says

    Rev BDC,

    Chipotles…or any other variety of smoked peppers, FTW. They taste so DAMNED GOOD.

    I like the ghost peppers for many reasons, but the Dorset Naga is grown round the corner from where I grew up. In English terms it’s a 2 hour drive and a bit of a pain, in American terms it’s next door! ;-)

    Louis

  76. says

    Ah, yes, sambal oelek, I know it well. Every supermarket stocks it here, and I use it in copious amounts. It’s not very fermented in flavour, though I think I was mixing up conversations and got the wrong impression. I was expecting to hear about something a bit saucier & less pastier.

  77. cm's changeable moniker says

    He said he ordered a Philly cheese steak the way he always does.

    “American cheese, onions and ketchup,” said Martinez.

    Lawrence Ordone was working behind the counter.

    “He wants ketchup on the Philly cheese steak and I have never put — we don’t even have ketchup at Subway — I’ve never put ketchup on anybody’s sandwich,” said Ordone.

    At the risk of treading on the undoubtedly important work of the law enforcement officers of Orange County, FL, this jumped out at me.

    The only logical conclusions are that either Martinez is an asshole who asks for impossible combinations, or that Ordone is under-trained in the extent of Subway’s range of condiments. Since I only have an English Subway available to me to check (and who knows what they serve), could someone from Florida englighten me? (There is, of course, “the way he always does at places other than Subway“, but that seems assholic, too.)

    /sherlockholmes

  78. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    sriracha chicken wings

    Fry or bake wings until crispy, I prefer fried but baked works.

    toss with 2 parts sriracha 1 part honey add chopped cliantro if you like. Adjust ratio of sriracha to honey for more or less heat (even though these days sriracha is no longer really hot). Sprinkle with toasted sesame seeds.

    Serve with pickled carrots and radish. Blue cheese still works with this.

    Do not even think about ranch or Julia Childs will come back from the grave and waggle her finger at you. Ok maybe not.

    Simple, easy kick ass.

  79. cm's changeable moniker says

    I’m actually looking at a bottle of Huy Fong Foods, Inc. Sriracha sauce right now. Indeed I just sploshed some on my dinner.

    (It’s not as good as Waitrose’s Thai chili sauce, but they seem to be suffering some kind of shortage and I haven’t seen a bottle in the shops for months. Hence, desperate measures!)

  80. cm's changeable moniker says

    Julia Childs will come back from the grave and waggle her finger at you

    I fail to see how this could ever be a bad thing. She could drop your turkey on the floor, but … still; Julia Child!! (I’d try to get her to sign my Mastering the Art of French Cooking but for a discorporeal being, that might be a stretch.)

  81. boadinum says

    Ughh…ketchup. imho people who put ketchup on everything are lacking in taste, discernment and class.

    Hot sauce, on the other hand, truly is ubiquitous. For those who aren’t crazy about sriracha, Amazon will keep you busy: http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=16321181

    I can recommend both Dave’s Insanity Sauce and Flaming Sphincter. Try one or both with your morning cereal and start your day with a blast.

    I think we’ve kept PZ distracted long enough for the podcast to start…

  82. silomowbray says

    And I swear to something that if you pour soy sauce on white rice or *GASP* you dip your sushi into a ridiculous blend of soy sauce and wasabi you’ll be taken behind the chemical shed and SHOT. With a suction cup dart gun by someone wearing a clown nose.

  83. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I once saw a sushi Itamae publicly embarrass some poor sap for doing that. I felt bad for the guy, but I understood.

  84. johnmarley says

    I have had ketchup on pancakes. I thought it was pretty good.

    There is one condiment issue that get’s to me. Hot wings + Ranch dressing is heresy. Anything other than Bleu Cheese is just wrong. Okay, extra hot sauce is permissible.

  85. chigau (違う) says

    Sushi eating snobbery is every bit as funny a western table-manner snobbery.

  86. Uncle Ebeneezer says

    Actually reading on wikipedia, it sounds like provolone was the original cheese on steak sandwiches. Anyways, whatever makes people happy doesn’t bug me.

    Rev. BDC- thanks, we will definitely try that recipe. Sriracha is such the perfect sauce for hot wings. We go to a Korean BBQ place out here in LA (dang il hang) that gives you fried rice at the end of the meal mixed up with the grill juices and a couple large dollops of Sriracha. It is sweet, sweat-inducing delight.

  87. cm's changeable moniker says

    dip your sushi into a ridiculous blend of soy sauce and wasabi

    *whistles innocently*

    With what should we accompany our nigiri, O, englightened one?

    I don’t want to hear any complaints from people whose national condiment is HP Brown Sauce.

    *pout* Well, then. Your loss. ;-)

  88. says

    I’m from Northern New Jersey and have had the pleasure of eating at both of the famous cheesesteak stands in Philadelphia. A Philly Cheesesteak is steak, cheese (melted provolone at one stand, Cheese-Whiz at the other) with the option of adding grilled onion. Any deviation from this recipe is custom, not a pure Philly. Ketchup is certainly not an ingredient in a Philly. However, in North Jersey all cheesesteaks have ketchup by default, and it is that variation to which I am most accustomed. No one there would call that a Philly though, because it isn’t.

    TL;DR: There are many kinds of cheesesteak, but only one (technically two) Phillies.

  89. jnorris says

    I like ketchup on my hot dogs. I will even use catchup if ketchup is unavailable. What I really like is a Chilli Slaw Dog, hot dog with a run of chilli and slaw on top.

    What I do not like, but will eat when I am with family, is that low country South Carolina mustard BBQ. I prefer, as all right thinking people do, western North Carolina BBQ, never eastern style. And a real abomination is that mayonnaise BBQ out of Georgia and Alabama. Don’t get me started on Texas.

    I have never had a real Philly cheese steak and wish I could afford the calories to find one I like in Philly.

    Some of this is snark, some not.

  90. Ogvorbis: useless says

    I do like ketchup on some things. And I find it very useful when doing the sauce for home made sweet and sour pork. Or shrimp. Like anything else, it has its uses. In moderation.

    Why can’t we all just get along?

  91. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    What I do not like, but will eat when I am with family, is that low country South Carolina mustard BBQ. I prefer, as all right thinking people do, western North Carolina BBQ, never eastern style. And a real abomination is that mayonnaise BBQ out of Georgia and Alabama. Don’t get me started on Texas.

    I live in Lowcountry central and I cannot agree more on the mustard based. Though I prefer Lexington style BBQ, I do and will eat eastern NC style and enjoy the hell out of it.

  92. spamamander, internet amphibian says

    So, erm, I see nobody has discussed what’s truly important in this debate- what is the acceptable condiment for baby. Or is there one?

    Oh, and breakfast foods (eggs, hash browns) should never, ever see ketchup. Ever. Salsa or Tabasco only.

  93. chigau (違う) says

    I have witnessed ketchup and maple syrup mixed as a dip for french fries.
    Right there on the plate.

  94. cm's changeable moniker says

    what is the acceptable condiment for baby. Or is there one?

    It’s not about the condiment. It’s about the cooking:

    I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.

  95. Nepenthe says

    Fry sauce is a condiment that should entertain both ketchup and mayo haters. It’s a roughly equal combo of each, apparently invented by Mormons who, deprived of adult pleasures like promiscuous sex, gambling and hot beverages, were reduced to mixing things together in the kitchen and daring each other to eat it.

    It’s delicious. It would probably be fantastic on a cheesesteak.

  96. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Mormons who, deprived of adult pleasures like promiscuous sex, gambling and hot beverages,

    …in public

  97. Ogvorbis: ບໍ່ມີຫຍັງຫັກ, ຕົກຕໍ່າ, ແລະມູນຄ່າ. says

    Nepenthe:

    I thought that was Thousand Island Dressing (or, alternatively, Russian Dressing minus the pickles)?

    I will say, however, that Mormons (along with some of the more conservative bible belt sects) seem to have been having a contest back in the 1970s and 1980s to see just how strange Jell-o salads can become.

  98. thebookofdave says

    Sriracha is the new ketchup. It sure helps keep a vegan cheese steak sandwich warm on the way down.

  99. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Oh, Mormons hold no monopoly on fucked up jello creations.

    I live in the south, trust me.

    Thanksgiving at my in-laws cousins a few years back was, um, shocking.

  100. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Vegan cheese steak….

    I’m going to have to bend a lot of laws of the universe to make that work.

  101. Ogvorbis: ບໍ່ມີຫຍັງຫັກ, ຕົກຕໍ່າ, ແລະມູນຄ່າ. says

    Oh, Mormons hold no monopoly on fucked up jello creations.

    I live in the south, trust me.

    I know. That’s why I included the parenthetical about bible belt sects.

    I still have some weird memories involving Jell-o, cheeze whiz and crackers thanks to a friends church.

  102. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh no

    make it stop make it stop

    Happy place happy place happy place

  103. cm's changeable moniker says

    Oh, come on, Rev, I had a perfectly boring post in play and you have to mention public sex, gambling, and hot beverages. I’m not sure I can post it now. Especially after “hot beverages”.

  104. evilDoug says

    Why can’t we all just get along?

    I was going to make some rude remarks about some of the things mentioned in this thread, but then I remembered that I have, voluntarily and within the past 10 years:
    1) eaten hot dogs more than once
    2) eaten Philly cheese steak once (in Philadelphia)
    and therefore have completely forfeited my right to malign any food or food-like product.

  105. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    You know Og, I completely missed your parenthetical in that post.

    iPad reading and cringing at bad football is to blame.

  106. Ogvorbis: ບໍ່ມີຫຍັງຫັກ, ຕົກຕໍ່າ, ແລະມູນຄ່າ. says

    Rev:

    I can post the story if you want (actually, I did post it long ago on my long dead blog).

  107. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    Now, Ordone’s reaction still seems to be way too strong… but I can see why people would be frustrated for making a sandwich, and then have the customer say they don’t want it because of a lack of a specific condiment. Particularly at Subway, where you don’t order the whole thing at once, but rather do it in steps, so by the time you get to condiments, the sandwich is already made.

    On the other hand, another customer did offer to buy the sandwich, so… I dunno. But based on the article, it seems less “weird randomness” and more “straw (sandwich?) that broke the camel’s back” kind of situation.

    You’re not seriously excusing this shit are you? This behavior is not acceptable at all.

  108. Ogvorbis: ບໍ່ມີຫຍັງຫັກ, ຕົກຕໍ່າ, ແລະມູນຄ່າ. says

    Well, Rev, you asked for it.

    This is most of a post from my old blog. You may notice some (well, a few, anyway) similarities to my current writing (lack of) style.

    One of my good friends (hell, he was my best friend) was a universal deist (again, in high school, I know we didn’t know term, but he viewed the universe as God) who was also a member of a severely fundamentalist Christian church. During our friendship, I managed to avoid his various attempts at getting me into his church. Actually, it was his mother who tried to get me in there.

    He and I went skiing up at Ski Liberty in Pennsylvania (crappy little ski area, but it was the closest one) on a Saturday. We got back late, so I just sacked out on his couch. The next morning, his mom made a big breakfast (home-cured country ham, eggs, home fries, scrapple, toasted home-made bread, home-canned cherry preserves, raw milk, home-made sausage, and fried hominy (and that was for five people)) and then announced that I would attend church with them.

    I demurred, insisting that I needed to get home. She insisted. I tried to get out of it. She insisted. I said no. She said yes. I went. She found a shirt which fit (pink striped), a necktie (wide and striped (1970s tacky)), and insisted. I resisted. Futilely.

    The church was a cute little wooden building in a grove of sycamore trees. And attached to the cute little church was a large cinder block monstrosity complete with a corrugated aluminum roof. The effect created by this juxtaposition was architectural chaos (the Church in the Wildwood mated with industrial crappy).

    Inside the cute little wooden church were rows of burnt orange plastic chairs (the stackable ones you find at bowling alley lounges). The podium was cheap veneer with a giant silver plastic cross. Behind the podium, on the wall, hung another cross. This one done in gold-toned plastic.

    I sat with my friend and his family about 1/3 of the way back. I quickly noticed that I was a topic of conversation. Nothing obvious, but everyone who came into the church looked my way, quickly looked away, and began talking amongst themselves while stealing furtive glances my way. It was obvious.

    A few minutes before the service started, a cute little girl (age, about 5), in a miniature brides-maid outfit with way too much taffeta for a dress that size, came through and handed out Bibles to everyone there. I opened it and confronted, for the first time in my life, the tortured beauty of the King James Version Bible. Under the Bible was a stack of papers with the words for today’s songs. Well, I thought, at least there will be music so it won’t be that bad, right?

    Wrong. The music sucked (and keep in mind that, at the time, my girlfriend was a twice-born and had taken me to Petra and Stryper concerts). Big time sucked. The organist (and it was not and organ, but a Casio keyboard set to ‘organ’) was almost competent. The choir (seven women and one man, all in their 90s (or older)) managed to be 1/4 step out of tune (both directions) the entire time, while still missing the beat by just enough to be annoying.

    The sermon, however, was worth the trip. The sermon of the day was a discussion of sexual sin. He (the pastor) never actually said what, exactly, the sins were (other than being sexual in nature), but he breathlessly described the punishments. Eternity in a boiling lake of blood, eternal heat, eternal thirst (I suspect he had been exposed to Dante’s Inferno at some point). For eternity. For all of eternity.

    I watched (without being too obvious about it) the reactions of the flock. Some sat, slack-jawed, following his every move about the foot-high stage. Some were breathing hard. Some had a look of joy on their face. One older woman (she was about 40 (which is, of course, no longer old to me)) actually began panting and, as the sermon reached a climax, she suddenly thrust her clasped hands into her lap, held them there, and shuddered. In retrospect, I think she had an orgasm (which is why QF’s comment brought this dreck out of the recesses of my mind (again, thank you)).

    After a few more songs (still bad), a couple of prayers (including one asking for the death of Tip O’Neil (my first experience with imprecatory prayer)), a collection (I tossed in a dollar (which was a lot of money for an eighteen-year-old)) and a prayer for someone’s grandmother. Then, out to the Church Community Center for some food and drink.

    The drink was weak iced tea, with pieces of mint (dried and re-hydrated in the tea) floating in amongst the ice cubes. The food was saltines, cheeze whiz (no, I am not kidding), a Jell-o and marshmallow salad, a Jell-o and fruit salad, and a Jell-o and fruit salad with nuts. I had a couple of crackers. No Jell-o. No cheeze whiz. No iced tea. Just crackers.

    Which actually summed up my reaction to the entire church experience in my friend’s congregation. On the way home, his mom positively gushed over the music, the organist, the sermon. I kept a straight face. Crackers.

    That was the first time I ever went to his family church. It was not the last. I had one more run-in with all of them.

    Crackers sums it up nicely.

  109. Strom und Drang says

    or *GASP* you dip your sushi into a ridiculous blend of soy sauce and wasabi you’ll be taken behind the chemical shed and SHOT. With a suction cup dart gun by someone wearing a clown nose.

    But can I put them on my spam musubi?

  110. Ogvorbis: ບໍ່ມີຫຍັງຫັກ, ຕົກຕໍ່າ, ແລະມູນຄ່າ. says

    That sounds miserable

    Oh, it was. His mom was out to save me because I was such a nice young man who just needed gawd and jeebus to be complete.

    The food at that house was good. She even made her own country ham.

  111. Ze Madmax says

    Ing @ #140

    No, I wasn’t trying to excuse it. And on re-reading the story, the confrontation was more serious than I’d originally thought, so hindsight being what it is, I probably shouldn’t have made that comment.

  112. Nepenthe says

    Ogvorbis, none of those Jell-o salads sound even mildly interesting to me. Then again, I’m from the Upper Midwest and have been to a lot of church potlucks. (Secretly I hope for the death of distant relatives because the funerals are the only times I get genyooine church-lady fruit fluff, Jell-o salad, and hot dish.)


    Rev

    Vegan cheese steak….

    I’m going to have to bend a lot of laws of the universe to make that work.

    One words: Seitan.

  113. DLC says

    man, where can you get a decent cheese steak in this town ?
    We don’t even have white castle.
    No bloody fish n chips shops either.
    Barbarians. This land is fraught with barbarians.

  114. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    @110:
    I like soy sauce on my white or fried rice.
    I also love to mix wasabi into my soy sauce.

    To the spanking parlor I go. Who is in charge this week?
    ****

    First time I ate sushi, I tried a dragon roll.
    I knew nothing of the dollop of green stuff.

    I spread the entire dollop over the roll.
    Yeah.
    I think my sinuses are still clear.

  115. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Jnorris @120:
    No snark allowed if you are not wearing the Snark Hat.

  116. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Scrapple?
    Raw milk?
    Hominy?
    Strange jello concoctions?

    I think I am living on the wrong Earth. Where I come from, these things do not exist (whatever they are).

  117. silomowbray says

    cm @ 117:

    With what should we accompany our nigiri, O, englightened one?

    Well, if you really care…

    You should accompany it with nothing other than appreciation for how carefully the sushi chef balanced the flavours. Drenching it in wasabi + soy sauce is more or less accepted in North America. Do it in Osaka, say, and you’ll earn a very hairy eyeball from the chef, and probably some surreptitious stares from the locals.

    But to each their own. My own “enlightenment” in this topic was earned the unpleasant way.

  118. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    Oggie:
    She had a Sermogasm? I know Jesus touches people, but thats a bit much.

  119. Tony the Queer Shoop (proud supporter of Radical Feminism) says

    I still think a dessert sushi roll made of rice krispie treats could work. Filled with graham crackers or marshmallow or whipped cream, dipped into chocolate fondue…

  120. ibyea says

    @Tony
    And notice how he described the other people during the sermon, like joyful and breathing hard. I am beginning to suspect they were all being sexually aroused by the sermon.

  121. vaiyt says

    on sandwiches:
    Subway doesn’t have catchup in these parts. They just don’t. Catchup is for junk food, and Subway is healthy, dammit!

    on sushi:
    I like to put a small bit of sauce on my sushi, preferably away from the rice. My friends don’t give a shit and drench the rice on the stuff. Either way, none of us are Japanese and we don’t feel like pretending we are.

  122. says

    I always put ketchup on hot dogs.

    PAAARP!

    Then you are doing it WRONG.

    One should never add ketchup to a hotdog. Also, NEVER put wieners on hotdogs either. Instead, you should eat them with gutted raw herring, covered in a layer of finely chopped onion.

    We shall, furthermore, no longer refer to hotdogs as “hotdogs”. Henceforth they shall be referred to by their correct name: “broodjes haring”.

    /pedant

  123. says

    @Tony:

    Scrapple – Take a freshly killed pig. Remove the parts that become pork chops, ham, butt, bacon, and tenderloin. Remove the ears, the trotters, the snout, and the tail. Remove the head. Put everything else (basically) into a big blender. Congrats you have scrapple. (The head becomes souse.)

  124. Ogvorbis: ບໍ່ມີຫຍັງຫັກ, ຕົກຕໍ່າ, ແລະມູນຄ່າ. says

    Scrapple?
    Raw milk?
    Hominy?
    Strange jello concoctions?

    I think I am living on the wrong Earth. Where I come from, these things do not exist (whatever they are).

    Scrapple is assorted pig parts. Sort of. All of the unusable parts of pig are put into a big caldron with lots of water and boiled for and hour or two. Strain it to remove the big bits, add salt and cornmeal until it achieves the consistency of pudding. It can be sliced, dusted in cornmeal and fried (Maryland style) or cooked in a pan until it softens and is eaten as a pudding (Pennsylvania Dutch style (and anathema unto Nuggan).

    Raw milk is milk that has not been homogenized.

    Hominy is corn that has been soaked in water and lime (not the fruit) until all the nutrients are gone and then skinned. It is fried in lots of butter and is delicious empty calories.

    Strange jello concoctions are just that.

  125. Strom und Drang says

    Hominy is corn that has been soaked in water and lime (not the fruit) until all the nutrients are gone and then skinned. It is fried in lots of butter and is delicious empty calories.

    The soaking-in-lime process (nixtamalization) makes the niacin in the corn more easily absorbable, so you’re actually making it more nutritious! Frying it in butter is just the reward for so cleverly thwarting pellagra, of course.

  126. says

    Hmm. Phillisteak with pepperjack and chipotle sauce?

    Japanese, apparently go really far in the crazy category. Why put ketchup, or, say, mayo, on your pizza, if you can, instead, to pit with potato salad. o.O

  127. unclefrogy says

    when I was an army cook I had to make some kind of dressing I do no longer what it was for but it was , mayo. bright yellow mustard, katchup and pickle relish in more or less equal parts. Very hard for me to do when the smell would hit me.

    the only mustard I like these days is mustard flower and water either english or chinese I will pass on the katchup thanks.

    uncle frogy

  128. chip says

    @unclefrogy – That, minus the pickle relish, is the sauce my (rural Nebraskan) grandmother served over broccoli. I grew up on the stuff, and still sort of view it as comfort food. Horrible, abominable, comfort food.

  129. shadow says

    Sushi:

    Spouse will dredge them through a mix of soy sauce and wasabi. Spouse is Japanese and raised in Tokyo — in laws do the same.

    I’ve had vegemite — meh. Spouse likes natto with green onion over rice. To me. it smells like something dead for weeks.

  130. judirock says

    “everyone KNOWS that a true Philly cheesesteak is served with ketchup and fried onions.”

    Um, no. There is NO ketchup on a true Philly cheesesteak. It is sauce. Not ketchup. Not marinara. Cheesesteak sause. No exceptions.

    Onions should be fried but can be raw for the newbies.

    Cheez whiz is the norm. Provolone is also okay.

    Most non-Philly folks up end up Pat’s or Geno’s (both are fine) but Jim’s is the place to verify this info. I’ve never seen ketchup ordered by a local. They would get beat up if they did. Same goes for (gasp) mayo. Blech.