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Why I am an atheist – Adam

I was raised in a creationist, fundamentalist home. If you’ve ever seen those videos where Ken Ham tells the crowd of kids to ask scientists, “Were you there?”, then you’ve seen a little bit of my childhood. I looked forward to getting our quarterly copy of “Answers in Genesis” (a magazine that Ham’s organization puts out). Later my dad subscribed to their “Technical Journal” of creationism because I was so interested in nature and science. When I was very young I was at one of those presentations that Ken Ham gives, and I am embarrassed to admit that at one point I even did ask a geologist “Were you there” as he talked about rock formations in Mammoth Cave.

I went to church at least twice a week, was in a christian school until college, listened to christian music exclusively, was in a very christian Boy Scouts of America troop, and I didn’t know a single person who wasn’t from one of those circles. All of my knowledge of ‘Atheists’ and ‘Darwinists’ came from creationist writings. I never had a ‘rebellious’ phase and was eager to please the authority figures in my life. So I really didn’t have any motivation for questioning the dogma I’d been given. I was growing up to be a zealous defender of “scientific creationism”.

And that was what brought it all crashing down for me, starting around my 16th birthday. I wanted to engage the other side and fight the good fight for Jesus, so I decided to figure out what the “evolutionists” could possibly have to say for themselves in the face of our awesome arguments and “facts”. The first thing I looked into was the claim that fossils formed over millions of years. Every real creationist has seen pictures of ‘petrified’ hats, boots, clocks, etc. This seemed like pretty good evidence that the scientists were wrong. But with a little bit of reading I found out that the hardened artifacts that the creationists were showing off were not, in fact, fossils. They were simply encrusted with calcium deposits. I also learned that replacement fossilization (where the organic molecules are replaced by inorganic minerals) occurs slowly because of diffusion rates, which are very easy to determine experimentally.

I was concerned that my heroes had been misinformed on that issue, but my faith was far from shaken. I simply thought that we would need to look deeper and we would find a way for fossilization to occur rapidly (in those days I planned on becoming a ‘creation scientist’). And I was excited about writing an explanatory article for Answers in Genesis because I really thought at the time that they would want to correct their error.

But while I was doing that I also started looking into ‘carbon dating’, which was another topic that was often ridiculed in creationist literature. I was told that it all depended on the assumption that everything had always been basically the same on the earth, but since god had magically created the earth in some unknown state and then flooded the whole thing that those assumptions were flawed. I was curious as to just what those ‘assumptions’ were and did some reading. I very quickly learned that carbon dating is only one of a large number of radiometric dating techniques, all of which agree on dates. And the ‘assumptions’ of other dating techniques (especially potassium-argon dating) were really impossible to argue with and produced data that was definitely incompatible with a young earth.

I then looked into a whole range of topics covering geology, cosmology, and biology; and literally everywhere I looked I saw dishonesty coming from the creationist side. So I briefly looked into ‘Old Earth’ creationism and ‘Theistic Evolution’ but ironically I had already been inoculated against those ideas by my Young Earth Creationist upbringing. The theology made far less sense and was even less consistent if you accepted an old earth. And by that point I was so disillusioned that I was critically thinking about Christianity itself and realizing just how ridiculous the beliefs were. I still considered myself a believer but was having serious doubts.

When I finally started thinking of myself as an atheist it wasn’t because of evolution or theology (this was only a few years after starting down the path of reason, but they were long and painful years). My parents got sucked into alternative medicine and I tried extremely hard to show them that they were being fooled by opportunistic charlatans. But I made no progress and was baffled at how people could believe something that had no positive evidence and was so obviously silly. And that’s when I became an atheist. I saw the clear parallel between religious belief and fake medicine, and I gave up my belief in god entirely. I’ve been religion-free for six years and my life has only gotten better. I am openly an atheist with everyone (except my parents, who might actually be killed by that news) and I really do think the future is bright for rationality and secularism.

Adam
United States

Comments

  1. Senne Kuyl says

    Hey Adam,

    Good story, really resonated with me. I sympathise with you and your parents, I have a similar fear. Smile and nod works well enough… for now, hey?

  2. Senne Kuyl says

    I don’t think it was your atheism that prompted such labels…

    (Is that flying too close to the wind?)

  3. abadidea says

    Thumbs up, Adam. I have a similar origin story. Feels so good to be free, doesn’t it? :)

    My grandmother subscribes to those stupid magazines and sends them money…

  4. Dave D says

    Right on, Adam. I took a similar path, but instead of stepping fully out into the cold morning of rationality I ducked back inside for a few years and wasted most of my 20s. I remember actually saying ridiculous stuff like “MICRO-evolution is a fact, MACRO-evolution is nonsense” and all the standard creation “science” garbage. Religious indoctrination is so pernicious.

  5. nazani14 says

    Great story, well written! Please consider writing a book for young people comparing creationist ‘evidence’ with standard science.

  6. says

    Later my dad subscribed to their “Technical Journal” of creationism because I was so interested in nature and science.

    I can see what’s coming here. Interested in science? Looks like it’s going to be goodbye Christian Death Cult.

    I am openly an atheist with everyone (except my parents, who might actually be killed by that news) and I really do think the future is bright for rationality and secularism.

    There would probably be some screaming if they learned the truth about you becoming normal, but perhaps they would get over it, and they might even benefit from knowing not everyone is gullible enough to believe Christian bullshit. Of course that’s easy for me to say.

    At least you don’t have the problem some Muslims have when they throw out Allah. In some countries they are risking their lives.

    PZ was brilliant to have these Why I am an atheist testimonials. I make sure I read these interesting posts every day.

  7. says

    Thanks for this! It’s almost exactly what I went through, and I think the important element here is that when you were a Christian/creationist, you honestly thought you had facts to back it up. When you showed a willingness to engage and research, you showed an open-mindedness that most people who remain fundies lack.

  8. Quodlibet says

    This is a wonderful essay, and beautifully written, with beautiful flow and clarity. You are a very good writer, Adam, and I second the suggestion that you write for young people. Your writing is calm and rational, and you make clear that shedding religion is freeing and strengthening and makes life better.

    It’s telling that your experience in trying to help your parents think rationally about their medical choices was the catalyst for your own rational thinking about religious matters. And your assessment that “they were being fooled by opportunistic charlatans” followed by your understanding that religion had the same effect – well, I loved that. :-)

    Thank you for sharing your story.

    I second others’ thanks to Dr Myers for sharing this space so that people may tell their stories and share the “Good Word” [snark] about the enlightened atheist state.

  9. shouldbeworking says

    Well written Adam! I enjoy reading these posts and I appreciate my parents for not forcing my brothers and me to go to church beyond a certain age. They let us be.

  10. Zugswang says

    Amazing how curiosity, motivated by an unselfish and sincere desire to understand and explain the world we live in, eventually frees us from even the most tenacious of our misconceived paradigms.

    Thanks so much for sharing.

  11. niftyatheist says

    Excellent essay. I am sitting here in admiration mixed with an uneasy sense of “but what if…”. I am very glad that you had the emotional strength to continue to look into the questions which struck you as not honestly answered.

    Many young people probably have a sense that it is all a pack of lies and psychological manipulation, but the damn things works! So, they back away carefully and “choose” to “believe” (in other words, they choose to push down their natural and honest doubts in order not to risk ostracism from the powerful religious community in which they were raised).

    I must add my “voice” to the growing chorus urging Adam to consider writing something for teenagers and young adults on this subject. It sounds like you have the scientific chops to explain the difference between actual science and convoluted bible-based apologetics for religious dogma. But more importantly, writing like your essay above could help to strengthen other young people who are standing where you were at 16, and maybe give them the strength and courage to pursue the truth.

    Many thanks to PZ for providing these essays. Like Human Ape, I check in every day to read them!

  12. robertpierce says

    Great story. Mine was similar but much weaker indoctorination. The country churches I went too didn’t have fancy magazines. All it took for me was Chuck Palahniuk with “Fight Club.” Book, not movie.

  13. Arakiba says

    “I then looked into a whole range of topics covering geology, cosmology, and biology; and literally everywhere I looked I saw dishonesty coming from the creationist side.”

    Knowledge will set you free.

  14. says

    I then looked into a whole range of topics covering geology, cosmology, and biology; and literally everywhere I looked I saw dishonesty coming from the creationist side.

    That’s why ID/creationism is fundamentally committed to claiming that our side is hopelessly “defending Darwin” and completely unwilling to “consider design.” If they can’t prejudice their followers dupes against science, they have nothing at all.

    It’s especially absurd when they tell those of us who were raised creationist that we’re simply unable or unwilling to consider creationism. They tried their best to make us both unable and unwilling to consider the actual sciences of “origins,” yet we looked at both sides and found out how fundamentally dishonest fundamentalism is.

    Of course they love to parade around the evolutionists who went to their side, but almost all of them knew next to nothing about evolution, which is all too obvious to those of us who know it fairly well.

    Glen Davidson

  15. Chris L. Robinson says

    Okay, this one was one of my favorites. Good job, Adam.

    As for our relatives, years ago, my nearly 90-year old fundamentalist Christian grandmother basically outted me based on some conversations we had about biblical scripture. I had forgotten the conversation, but she hadn’t and had drawn her own conclusions.

    Right in the middle of a family meal she began to wax poetic about the limitless power of the Lord when she suddenly turned to me and said, “Now, Chris, you won’t believe this since you’re an infidel,…”, and went on as though she’d said “pass the gravy”. The table gasped and my very Christian wife yelled, “Fool! You can’t hide from, grandma!” She then literally fell on the floor laughing. (My wife loves me–she simply considers my lack of belief to be another of my faults.)

    I was so stunned that I nearly denied the charge. I managed to resist.

    My wife calls me an infidel to this day.

  16. says

    Nice one, Adam.

    Makes me think of 1 Corinthians 13:11-

    When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    Believing in God is not a childish activity, but an adult one. Children rarely resort to a higher power in desperation unless properly indoctrinated. Childish activity is inquisitiveness, cautiousness, a desire for evidence. In times of crisis, kids tend to look for earthly authority and tangible comfort. They want a hug, preferably from an adult that says intelligent things that make sense to them. They don’t want or need more confusion and more questions. It was a good idea to keep these verses in the Bible. It keeps adults from asking questions. It keeps adults thinking they’re too busy to understand.

    Kids are sponges. They absorb everything. But things that make sense and are corroborated stick, and the Woo doesn’t. We should think like children. We should ask like children. Kids know they don’t know, and this is their advantage. It’s disheartening to think that religion eradicates this ability in children. Indoctrinated children do not get to think like children, or speak like children, or understand like children. Their thoughts are poisoned. Their honesty is destroyed. Their innocence is stolen. But they can escape if they retain their childish things – like reason. They call age 7 the “age of reason.” Not because it is when you start using it, but when you start losing it.

  17. adamjohnson says

    Thanks for all the comments! I loved PZ’s idea to post these essays but didn’t decide to write one myself until after I’d read a few of them. I know there are others who’ve also left behind a creationist upbringing and I thought my story might encourage people when it seems like it’s pointless to talk to creationists and counter their claims. People do occasionally see the light, but it takes time.

    I’m on a business trip this week (demoing a system we built for DARPA!) and I’m currently typing this on my phone in an airplane. I’m really glad that people appreciated the essay and I’ll read the comments when I can.

    @nazani14 : I’ve started writing some of this down and have vaguely thought about writing a full book, but I know it’s a ton of work. I’m starting to get more involved in the atheist community so that might motivate me to work on it regularly.

    @Human Ape : Yep, I was just about ready to hit them with the news but changed my mind after my dad had a minor heart attack. I don’t see them very often anyway.

  18. Ray Martinez says

    Adam the ex-Fundie (the worst) turned Atheist (even worse) begins by telling us that he, in the process of time, discovered the falsity of Creationism and the truth of Darwinism. But these “discoveries,” as he would have us believe, did not influence his conversion to Atheism! What did influence and cause his conversion was the irrational behavior of his parents, their acceptance of charlatan medicine. In other words, his parents caused him to abandon God.

    What a cowardly excuse/reason! Most Atheists have the decency to point to evil and/or suffering in the world, and the alleged evidence of evolution. But Adam wants the world to know that his Christian parents were the cause of his Atheism!

    How does acceptance of charlatan medicine, by parents, make God disappear in the mind and heart of Adam?

    According to the Bible, if you reject God it is because He has already rejected you—-that’s why you reject Him. God sees something in you that turns Him off, like stupidity and cowardice (= anti-faith), which is plainly seen in Adam’s reasons for becoming an Atheist.

    In general: the Bible explains Atheism/Naturalism as delusion punishments from God for denying Intelligent design in nature (reference withheld). This explains why an evolution theory, with no evidence in support, is accepted.

    Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist-anti-selectionist-species immutabilist.

  19. Randide, ou l'Optimisme says

    RayMart:

    God sees something in you that turns Him off, like stupidity

    And then you follow that up with such brilliant logic as

    ex-Fundie (the worst) turned Atheist (even worse)

    Well played, moron.

  20. says

    Ray Martinez the liar:

    Adam the ex-Fundie (the worst) turned Atheist (even worse) begins by telling us that he, in the process of time, discovered the falsity of Creationism and the truth of Darwinism.

    The “truth of Darwinism”? He said no such thing. Can’t you even try to respond to what was actually written, liar?

  21. Ray Martinez says

    #27 said the first quote followed the second quote. Not true: the latter was written first then the former.

    First: Adam the ex-Fundie (the worst) turned Atheist (even worse)….[sound logic, Atheists are worse than Fundies]

    Second: God sees something in you that turns Him off, like stupidity….

    Then the author of #27 (undoubtedly an Atheist) says I am a moron. Like I said, God rejects inexcusably stupid people.

  22. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    According to the Bible my presupposed inerrant without evidence holy book, if you reject God my presupposed and evidenceless imaginary deity

    Fixed that for you loser Ray. Still no evidence for your idiocy, just stupid and ignorant blather.

  23. Ray Martinez says

    #28: “The ‘truth of Darwinism’? He said no such thing.”

    Atheists believe Darwinism true, moron. Adam’s essay was about how he became an Atheist (like yourself).

  24. KG says

    God sees something in you that turns Him off, like stupidity – some godbotting fuckwit

    Ah, that would be why atheism increases with every increase in educational attainment, would it?

  25. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    God sees something in you that turns Him off, like stupidity….

    The stupidist think on this blog is you Ray loser. You offend you imaginary deity due to your stupidity, and inability to think.

  26. Ing says

    Then the author of #27 (undoubtedly an Atheist) says I am a moron. Like I said, God rejects inexcusably stupid people.

    So God is less all loving and more like a murderous Edward Nigma?

  27. says

    “And I was excited about writing an explanatory article for Answers in Genesis because I really thought at the time that they would want to correct their error.”

    I’m really curious what their response would have been if you had written/submitted that, while still a believer. Would they have risked alienating you by refusing to publish it and/or sending you a letter “carefully explaining why you are wrong”, or would they recognize that you were on the path to atheism and write you off as a lost cause and ignore you? I realize there are other options, but those seemed most likely.

  28. Ray Martinez says

    Fundies and Atheists are THE dumbest people in Western society. Atheists, of course, do not see themselves as occupying the same camp as the Fundies.

    But the facts say differently, both accept:

    1. Microevolution (species mutability)

    2. Macroevolution (the Fundies accept limited macro, but its still macro)

    3. Natural selection (the Fundies accept the concept to exist in nature but not to the degree that Atheists accept)

    As we can see, PZ Myers and Ken Ham are in the same conceptual bed (Thank God).

    Atheists have been able to convince the Fundies concerning the main claims of Darwinism.

    Nice “accomplishment.”

    Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist, anti-selectionist-species immutabilist.

  29. Ing says

    According to the Bible, if you reject God it is because He has already rejected you—-that’s why you reject Him. God sees something in you that turns Him off, like stupidity and cowardice (= anti-faith), which is plainly seen in Adam’s reasons for becoming an Atheist.

    And he formed us in the womb an all right? He really can’t blame us for him being a shitty crafstsman.

    Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist, anti-selectionist-species immutabilist.

    Fucking idiot. really? Anti-selectionist? So there are somewhere rats when introduced rat poison show an increase in their population of those who are susceptible to poison and a decrease in the resistant population?

  30. Ing says

    @Ray

    Might I suggest praying before you hit submit, or at very least reading aloud to make sure you’re not coming off like a crazy hobo?

  31. Ray Martinez says

    #32:

    The increase in Atheism is evidence supporting the claim that we are in the Last Days. The Book of Thessalonians predicts a great falling away prior to Book of Revelation end time events unfolding.

  32. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist, anti-selectionist-species immutabilist.

    In other words Ray is an idjit fuckwit without intelligence, believing with presupposition and without evidence, and without any evidence to demonstrate it, thinks it can write a cogent sentence that means something. Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather, Blather. And that is on a good day…

  33. Ing says

    I mean if an increase in atheism is predicted than clearly some people are predestined to BE atheists. Thus bitching at us is like screaming at the hands of a clock. Sorry boss, we just work here!

  34. KG says

    godbotting fuckwit,

    First, shit-for-brains, neither “atheist” nor “fundy” is a proper noun, so neither requires an initial upper-case letter except at the start of a sentence.

    Second, if your god existed, it would evidently, by your own account, be either as much of a fuckwit as you, or even more loathsomely evil than you, since it would either have inadvertently created stupid and cowardly people, or it would have done so deliberately simply for the pleasure of tormenting them.

  35. Ray Martinez says

    #38: “Might I suggest praying before you hit submit, or at very least reading aloud to make sure you’re not coming off like a crazy hobo?”

    I am quite relieved to be considered crazy by a person who thinks apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years.

    RM (anti-evolutionist)

  36. KG says

    The increase in Atheism is evidence supporting the claim that we are in the Last Days. The Book of Thessalonians predicts a great falling away prior to Book of Revelation end time events unfolding. – godbotting fuckwit

    Godbotting fuckwits like you have been making this claim for nearly 2,000 years. Face it, shit-for-brains, he’s not coming back – you’ve been stood up.

  37. KG says

    I am quite relieved to be considered crazy by a person who thinks apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years. – godbotting fuckwit

    Duh! Apes don’t live for millions of years, shit-for-brains.

  38. says

    Another lie from Ray Martinez #31

    Atheists believe Darwinism true, moron.

    No, liar, creationists tell themselves that atheists believe in something called “Darwinism” because it allows creationists to pretend that science is just another religion.

  39. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I am quite relieved to be considered crazy by a person who thinks apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years.

    You appear stuck at Homo habilis stage LOSER RAY. Typical of godbots who can’t prove their imaginary deity exists, but can’t shut the fuck up either. You are all mouth and blather Ray, not a clear and cogent idea is sight.

  40. Rey Fox says

    According to the Bible, if you reject God it is because He has already rejected you—-that’s why you reject Him. God sees something in you that turns Him off, like stupidity and cowardice (= anti-faith), which is plainly seen in Adam’s reasons for becoming an Atheist.

    Heh. Any god that would reject me and accept you is one that I’m happy to defy.

    The Book of Thessalonians predicts a great falling away prior to Book of Revelation end time events unfolding.

    Oh yeah, that god’s book sucks too.

    -Rey Fox, The Very Model of a Modern Species Mutablist

  41. Dave, the Kwisatz Haderach says

    Wow Ray, the weird homeless guy who lives in the alley nearby and yells at garbage cans makes more sense than you.

    Adam, cool story bro. Sounds quite similar to mine, good on you for seeing the light. Good luck with your folks to, I know how it is, I have the same problem.

  42. Ray Martinez says

    #40: “So freewill enters where now?”

    That’s the point: when one uses their free-will to continually give the finger to God, He will eventually limit the options of your free-will, that is, the option to want and respond to Him.

    Intelligent design is seen in every aspect of the natural world.

    IOW, the evidence of God is massive. To deny what is seen and assert species produce species, instead of Paley’s God creating each species, is using free-will to give the finger to God.

    God will not tolerate anyone giving Him the finger.

    Here is what happens:

    Remember the aging movie star, ready for her close-up, unaware that the Studio is no longer interested?

    Atheists: you are the aging movie star, convinced of your self-importance, completely unaware of the fact that God has rejected you (for your inexcusable premeditated denial of Intelligent design SEEN in nature).

    The aging movie star finds our rather quickly of her true status.

    Atheists find out when they die.

  43. KG says

    God will not tolerate anyone giving Him the finger. – godbotting fuckwit

    It’s really not surprising that you’ve imagined such a vile fascistic tyrant of a god, giving what a vile little shit you are yourself.

  44. Ray Martinez says

    #47:

    Dawkins, Gould and Mayr use the word “Darwinism” in all of their publications liberally.

    You are embarrassingly ignorant and unread.

  45. says

    Beside the point, Ray the liar, and you either know it and are being stunningly dishonest, or you are unable to read for comprehension.

    And, just to repeat: the OP said nothing of the sort, so you pretending he said that is what we in the non-morally-bankrupt part of reality call “a big fat lie”.

    You are a liar, Ray Martinez.

  46. KG says

    Wow Ray, the weird homeless guy who lives in the alley nearby and yells at garbage cans makes more sense than you. – Dave, the Kwisatz Haderach

    Are you sure that’s not Ray? He’s probably telling the garbage cans God has rejected them because they’re not as full of garbage as Ray is himself.

  47. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    You are embarrassingly ignorant and unread.

    That is you Ray, ignoramous and illiterate fool. You have nothing to offer us in the way of intelligent discussion, as your brain is filled with shadows of imaginary deities and mythical/fictional holy books, better known a delusions. Blather, blather, blather…etc. ad nauseum…

  48. Dave, the Kwisatz Haderach says

    Ing, #58

    No one is this blatantly and proudly stupid.

    Oh, if only that were true, what a glorious world that would be.

  49. John Morales says

    I too think this series of testimonials is rather good.

    [meta]

    Ray Martinez is in denial; unlike Adam, he is a coward, and lacks the intellectual honesty to examine and accept reality.

    A sad specimen, he.

  50. Ing says

    @Dave

    Nobody would list their criteria of crankdome as if it was an agreed upon badge of honor like that. He’s trying to make Xians look like nuts

  51. says

    I am quite relieved to be considered crazy by a person who thinks apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years.

    Autofill, right? Because I remember you using the exact same line before on a different post. And you got corrected–not only is that not what we believe, it merely serves to display your incredible ignorance of what evolution is.

    I’m not going to bother correcting you again, because you clearly do not learn. You only barf up the same silly hairballs again and again.

    I’m guessing you do really well in arguments where you get to tell the other person what they believe. On a similar note, my favorite football team is unbeaten in games where we get to call the other team’s plays.

    Porcupine. Again.

  52. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist, anti-selectionist-species immutabilist.

    J.A. Davison’s long lost pathological kindred

  53. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I am quite relieved to be considered crazy by a person who thinks apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years.

    Yep, that damn science and it’s non human desire conforming nature.

  54. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I suspect after today’s demonstration, Ray will be banhammered again. I suspect he sees it as a badge of honor, rather than stupidity.

  55. says

    Ray’s claim to fame is that he never learns and never tells the truth.

    Trouble is, that’s all the prominent creationist spokespersons’ claims to fame as well, including the appalling Phillip Johnson.

    Glen Davidson

  56. frankb says

    That is a very good essay, Adam. Thanks for sharing.

    Since my Dad was a fourth generation minister, I might have been expected to have a similar upbringing to you. But somehow my Dad got a bit of rationality and open-mindedness in the mix. My mom had a Quaker background so no problem there. My brothers and I were exposed to Quakerism and Unitarianism, which is a good step toward agnosticism and atheism. I am glad to be able to follow my own path without pressure from family. Family squabbles about religion sound terrible to me.

  57. Ray Martinez says

    #68 (Glen Davidson): “Ray’s claim to fame is that he never learns and never tells the truth.

    Trouble is, that’s all the prominent creationist spokespersons’ claims to fame as well, including the appalling Phillip Johnson.”

    Johnson accepts microevolution/species mutability and the concept of natural selection to exist in nature.

    I know, for a scientific fact, that the concepts of natural selection and microevolution do not exist in nature. These only exist in the minds of Atheists/Darwinists and IDiots.

    RM (Old Earth Paleyan IDist)

  58. Ray Martinez says

    #63: “Nobody would list their criteria of crankdome as if it was an agreed upon badge of honor like that. He’s trying to make Xians look like nuts.”

    Real Christians do not accept the same biological production theory that all Atheists accept.

    The fact that very many do accept the Atheist explanation of life means these Christians are not real Christians.

    Real Christians accept Genesis, not Darwin and Dawkins (evolutionary theory).

    Your comment simply declares that you have lost track of the objective claims of Christianity and Atheism.

    Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist, anti-selectionist-species immutabilist

  59. KG says

    I know, for a scientific fact, that the concepts of natural selection and microevolution do not exist in nature. – godbotting fuckwit

    Natural selection has been observed, recorded and measured multiple times, shit-for-brains. The work of the Grants on beak size in Darwin’s finches is in itself sufficient refutation of your stupid lies.

  60. says

    Fucking awesome! When I first saw your entry earlier today I didn’t think I would read it because it’s kind of long, but I made a promise to myself when PZ started this to read everybody’s entry.
    Adam, yours is one of the best I’ve read. I’m putting it in my special place right next to Dear Emma B.
    Thank you!
    Why are people still giving RayBan attention? This is Adam’s post.

  61. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Loser Ray, the only type of place where refutations to the theory of evolution can be be found: A college science library. And guess what Ray, it says you are WRONG, and nothing but liar and bullshitter for your delusional and imaginary deity, and your holy book of mythology/fiction. You lose.

  62. Ray Martinez says

    #72 “Natural selection has been observed, recorded and measured multiple times, shit-for-brains. The work of the Grants on beak size in Darwin’s finches is in itself sufficient refutation of your stupid lies.”

    Natural selection is an inference and explanation, it is not observed. If you still think otherwise then please post a YouTube showing natural selection in action.

    As for the Grant’s work on finches beak size, the same shows that finch beaks oscillate in size according to environmental conditions. The fact of oscillation is spectacular evidence supporting ID. That is our interpretation of the facts and data.

  63. Ing says

    As for the Grant’s work on finches beak size, the same shows that finch beaks oscillate in size according to environmental conditions. The fact of oscillation is spectacular evidence supporting ID.

    …so apes morphing into humans is ridiculous, but you’re claiming finches have shape shifting beaks?

    This guy is such a fake.

  64. says

    Natural selection is an inference and explanation, it is not observed. If you still think otherwise then please post a YouTube showing natural selection in action.

    I think this is the dumbest comment I’ve ever read.

  65. Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM, says

    I know, for a scientific fact, that the concepts of natural selection and microevolution do not exist in nature. These only exist in the minds of Atheists/Darwinists and IDiots.

    If this is a fact, you will be able to show how this is a fact and change the field of biology.

  66. Carlie says

    As for the Grant’s work on finches beak size, the same shows that finch beaks oscillate in size according to environmental conditions. The fact of oscillation is spectacular evidence supporting ID.

    And on other islands and in other years, the change was directional rather than oscillating. By your own statement then, spectacular evidence disproving ID.

  67. Zugswang says

    The increase in Atheism is evidence supporting the claim that we are in the Last Days.

    Nah, it’s just evidence that our arguments are more compelling than your self-contradictory obloquys.

  68. Esteleth says

    I really enjoy this series. Most of the articles are very interesting, and this one was great.

    @Ray,
    You are an idiot. I mean, really. Go find a flock of sheep to yell at.

    Incidentally, WTF does “anti-selectionist-species immutabilist” mean? Do you think that species just popped into existence magically or some bullshit like that?

  69. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Come on Ray, either cite the peer reviewed scientific literature or shut the fuck. Citations separate the rational from the delusional fools like yourself. Still the abject irrational loser Rayturd.

  70. Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM, says

    Here is what happens:

    Remember the aging movie star, ready for her close-up, unaware that the Studio is no longer interested?

    Atheists: you are the aging movie star, convinced of your self-importance, completely unaware of the fact that God has rejected you (for your inexcusable premeditated denial of Intelligent design SEEN in nature).

    The aging movie star finds our rather quickly of her true status.

    Atheists find out when they die.

    Shi-it, Ray. Could you be more vague and off point with this silly analogy?

  71. Sally Strange, OM says

    If you still think otherwise then please post a YouTube showing natural selection in action.

    Because humans are incapable of directly observing events that last longer than ten minutes.

  72. Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM, says

    The increase in Atheism is evidence supporting the claim that we are in the Last Days. The Book of Thessalonians predicts a great falling away prior to Book of Revelation end time events unfolding.

    Hello, Harold Camping!

  73. consciousness razor says

    Natural selection is an inference and explanation, it is not observed.

    *snicker*

    If you still think otherwise then please post a YouTube showing natural selection in action.

    Watch this, then, if YouTube videos are how creationists conduct research.

  74. Ing says

    Go find a flock of sheep to yell at.

    If this guy was real that’s what I’d imagine he does in his day job. Goes and finds livestock to scream at

  75. Kemist says

    If you still think otherwise then please post a YouTube showing natural selection in action.

    After graphic novels, here is the new standard for creationist “evidence” – youtube videos.

    *headdesk*

  76. Kemist says

    Atheists: you are the aging movie star, convinced of your self-importance, completely unaware of the fact that God has rejected you (for your inexcusable premeditated denial of Intelligent design SEEN in nature).

    And what does that make you, sky daddy’s special widdle snowflake ?

    Unconvinced of your own self-importance maybe ?

    Here’s a clue : xians are the ones who are obsessed with the need to feel all special and chosen, and to have their purpose chosen for them like the slaves that they are.

    The rest of us don’t give a decaying porcupine.

  77. says

    Adam

    Every real creationist has seen pictures of ‘petrified’ hats, boots, clocks, etc. This seemed like pretty good evidence that the scientists were wrong. But with a little bit of reading I found out that the hardened artifacts that the creationists were showing off were not, in fact, fossils. They were simply encrusted with calcium deposits.

    Oh god, that reminds me of this!

    What’s worse: Now they admit that it’s just calcification but they go on to say:

    This quick-forming ‘stone’ hat adds weight to the claims that creation scientists are correct when they say that thousands or millions of years are not needed to form rocks and fossilize animals and plants.

    Adam, I agree with the others: Write that book!

    We need people like you who have seen the deceptions of these people firsthand who have worked their way out of them themselves, and who are good at explaining science to others. People need to know that “calcification” and “fossilization” are NOT the same thing, and it’s outright dishonest of them to imply that it is.

  78. says

    Hmmmhp. That could have been better written on my part…

    We need people like you who have seen the deceptions of those people firsthand and who have worked their own way out of those deceptions themselves, and who are good at explaining science to others.

    Ah who cares? I’m not a writer! That’s why I’m not the one whom people are asking to write a book!

  79. KG says

    Natural selection is an inference and explanation, it is not observed…

    As for the Grant’s work on finches beak size, the same shows that finch beaks oscillate in size according to environmental conditions. The fact of oscillation is spectacular evidence supporting ID. That is our interpretation of the facts and data. – godbotting fuckwit

    You crack-brained moron, the higher death rate of finches with small beaks in a drought year when there were few small seeds was observed. The greater proportion of birds with large beaks born of these surviving birds in the following years, after the drought, was observed. So differential rates of survival according to a heritable trait leading to a change in the distribution of traits in the population was observed. That is natural selection, shit-for-brains. That’s what the term means. In a later unusually wet year, there were an unusually large number of small seeds, a larger proportion of birds with small beaks survived, and their offspring were also predominantly small-beaked. Again, that is natural selection. Natural selection leads to oscillation in trait frequency if the relevant environmental conditions oscillate; it leads to directional change if the relevant environmental conditions show directional change. You really are more fuckwitted than Ken Ham.

  80. Rey Fox says

    No, KG, if finches don’t spontaneously transform into angels, then natural selection is falsified.

  81. erikthebassist says

    #40: “So freewill enters where now?”

    That’s the point: when one uses their free-will to continually give the finger to God, He will eventually limit the options of your free-will, that is, the option to want and respond to Him.

    So to paraphrase, you can do what you want but if you don’t do what I tell you to do, which is mainly worship me, I’m going to throw you in a pit of agony and fire for all eternity.

    You truly are one of the dumbest people to ever comment on any thing any where on the internets period

  82. says

    Adam, that was great–an interesting twist on learning the facts about evolution teaching someone that religious apologists have been lying to them. I love it that you made the connection between credulous acceptance of smooth-talking charlatans & their pseudoscience and credulous acceptance of smooth-talking preachers & their religion.*

    You can write your book one essay at a time, each with a creationist lie and what you learned is true, with your personal journey to finding the depth of science in the foreword or the afterword. I think it would be a hit and a valuable resource.

    *Ray, if you’re still around, that’s the connection. Adam learned enough to recognize lies and self-interest.

  83. Ing says

    That’s the point: when one uses their free-will to continually give the finger to God, He will eventually limit the options of your free-will, that is, the option to want and respond to Him.

    Which was dodging the question. The problem was that if an increase in atheism is predestined then people are predestined to against their will give the finger to God…and he will then punish them for it.

    Either God is building people knowing they’re atheistic in nature to prepare for the end days, or he knows that his plan will lead to people not believing him and that the numbers will increase as time goes on, and does NOTHING to correct it. Either way he is grossly irresponsible.

  84. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel says

    Ray Martinez:

    Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist, anti-selectionist-species immutabilist

    Oh for fuck’s sake, not this fucking loser again. Ray, isn’t it about time you toodled along and played on the highway? I hear the tractor trailers really love to play chicken at this time of night.

    Okay, okay. Here you go, Ray a Wikipedia link to peppered moth evolution. In short:

    Originally, the vast majority of peppered moths had light colouration, which effectively camouflaged them against the light-coloured trees and lichens which they rested upon. However, because of widespread pollution during the Industrial Revolution in England, many of the lichens died out, and the trees that peppered moths rested on became blackened by soot, causing most of the light-coloured moths, or typica, to die off from predation. At the same time, the dark-coloured, or melanic, moths, carbonaria, flourished because of their ability to hide on the darkened trees.

    Or was that God making the moths darker?

    Esteleth:

    Do you think that species just popped into existence magically or some bullshit like that?

    My guess is “yes”.

  85. BCskeptic says

    Adam, very nice story. I’ll second the nomination for you to write a book…it could even be a book of essays of memorable “events”, as someone suggested. Welcome to reason and freedom.

    Ray, you’re an idiot. Produce objective evidence that your god exists, or just fuck off and eat sandwiches with the rest of the dellusional idiots in your local church basement. Threats of vengence by a non-existent magic man in the sky have no effect here, other than to underscore the depth of your dellusion.

  86. eigenperson says

    Dear Ray Martinez,

    Congratulations on having escaped the fetters of truth and knowledge for the blissful land of lies and ignorance. I would encourage you, however, to keep exploring. After all, there are so many more lies left out there to find.

    Here’s just one example: Gravity. Physicists even admit that the theory of gravity (it’s only a theory) is gravely flawed.

    All theories of quantum gravity are irreconcilable with general relativity.

    Gravity does not correctly model the rotation of galaxies, as we all know despite the fervent attempts of the physics community to hush it up. Physicists have postulated the existence of so-called “dark matter,” which just shows their shamelessness in appealing to Satan when their depraved theories fall apart in the light of God’s truth.

    Furthermore, the theory of gravity is transparently inconsitent with the fact that the moon hasn’t fallen out of the sky. Physicists try to explain this by saying that the moon is moving very fast, but this is obviously nonsense. If the moon were moving as fast as they claim, it would be nothing more than a blurred streak in the sky. But everyone knows the moon is perfectly still and hardly moves at all — you just have to look at it!

    I haven’t even mentioned yet the facts that airplanes fly, helium balloons float, and tall buildings don’t fall down. All of these things are inconsistent with gravity.

    It’s pretty ironic that all the people here call you and me deluded, Ray, when they think the MOON is FALLING! Could they be any more delusional than that? Maybe they think the EARTH is falling into the SUN too! Imagine that! If they can show us a Youtube video of the earth falling into the sun, then perhaps they’d be able to prove their theory, but of course they can’t. Because gravity is nonsense.

    Of course, the fact that gravity doesn’t exist is excellent evidence for the existence of God. Is it not written, “On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone?” How much more evidence could you ask for that the Bible is the word of an all-powerful being who created the universe and all things visible and invisible, and sent His only son, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, who was secretly himself, to die for us on the cross, and then resurrected Him after three days and then ascended to Heaven to sit at His own right hand? Oh, and who is also secretly the Holy Ghost.

    So I have a suggestion. As the only sane person in a mad world, you know that you should do your best to live by the words of the Bible, and trust in the Lord. Now, since the Lord in His wisdom has not created gravity, how better to show that you have abandoned the Satanistic theory of gravity than to walk off the edge of a tall building? I’d go with you, but of course, I’ve already done it loads of times, and I have important missionary work to do anyway. Perhaps next time.

    See you in he– er, I mean, in a few days, when you undoubtedly prove all the doubters wrong by floating gently down, uninjured.

    Eigenperson (IFist Non-Einsteinean Gravity Debunker)

  87. says

    It warms my heart to hear that there is still hope for those children you see indoctrinated in Ken Ham videos. Thank you so much for sharing