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Sep 30 2011

Aim for the stars, creepy guy!

Wow. It’s just like science.

I wouldn’t say I know all that much about porn. More than the average guy for sure but there is a whole other level of porn aficianado out there that dwarfs mine. It’s the guys who have been following porn for 20+ years and have tens of thousands of posts on sites like Adultdvdtalk and planetsuzy.com and run blogs about porn who are the real experts who have helped educate me. It’s kind of like what Newton said about standing on the shoulders of giants.

I’ve completely missed out on that kind of education — I’ve wasted all those years studying mere biology.

The weird cluelessness is compounded when you consider that Newton died a virgin, and proud of it.

78 comments

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  1. 1
    Slugsie

    Surely studying porn is just a branch of Biological study? Human reproductive strategies etc.

  2. 2
    Usernames are smart

    Troll’s gotta Troll.

    …and this one is about as subtle as a brick.

  3. 3
    AussieMike

    I thought you had a grant to write! Your posting rate does not seem to have abated. Yay for us!

  4. 4
    Tom Clark

    Alas, poor Newton.

    Also, I call Rule 34 on “standing on the shoulders of giants.” Randall Munroe, make it happen!

  5. 5
    James Sweet

    I think the guy was trying to be ironic. I think?

  6. 6
    Glodson

    I am hoping against hope that wasn’t serious. I am hoping it is just a standard troll. And I hope it is meant to be parody.

    But I’m worried it isn’t. But I guess standing on the shoulders of the porn giants will give you a better view of high quality porn.

  7. 7
    susan

    The weird cluelessness is compounded when you consider that Newton died a virgin, and proud of it.

    HA! Now, that’s the kind of slam you can make when you’ve not just studied porn all your life. Thanks, PZ! Started my Friday morning off right.

  8. 8
    Geral

    .. and how do we know he died a virgin? Obviously, just because he never married doesn’t mean he never did it. And if he spoke out against sex, well, he wouldn’t be the first to say something and do another *cough* priests *cough*.

  9. 9
    Ramel

    The weird cluelessness is compounded when you consider that Newton died a virgin

    There’s a good chance that this guy will too.

  10. 10
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Human reproductive strategies etc.

    Not seen any modern porn, have you?

    It’s got about as much to do with reproduction as the movie “trainspotting” had to do with trains…

  11. 11
    julian

    Are there any hipster trolls out there?

    What’s you’re opinion of this gentle sir or lady’s technique?

  12. 12
    chigau (違う)

    Surely studying porn is just a branch of Biological study? Human reproductive strategies etc.

    There is not very much reproduction resulting from masturbation.

  13. 13
    Thorne

    I just heard on the radio this morning that scientist found that images of beautiful women light up the same portions of the male brain as would cocaine. So I’m just doing my bit in the war on drugs.

  14. 14
    debbaasseerr

    @ #8 – we know because he declared lifelong celibacy to be his life’s greatest achievement on his deathbed.

    And what giant shoulders this dude has to stand on. Just think of viewpoint you can get getting an education…from experts! — in treating women like fuck toilets! You can’t just watch a few guys degrade women for kicks once or twice, but it takes literally thousands and thousands of viewings of men using women for the benefit of other men to achieve this level of reverse enlightenment.

    If only he had been taking notes each time he unearthed another layer of complexity of the mountains of porn he was consuming learning about. I hope he was at least dictating some notes about the many subtle shades of how say, an ass-to-mouth scene can be executed. It’d be a shame if all the rich complexity and nuance the creators lovingly sprayed all over their product was lost cause he was too busy jerkin’ it.

  15. 15
    IanKoro

    Yeah, reading his other comments, I really get the impression he’s likely more of a /b/ type of guy whose intent is not so much to actually be honest, but to come across as a creepy troll. It’s more of an attempt at sick humor than an actual description of his porn tastes.

    I realize there is a lot to criticize about /b/’s sense of humor, but if you’re an outsider who doesn’t really “get it”, and you’re denouncing it, you’re pretty much playing right into their hands. Unfortunate as that may be.

  16. 16
    Pierce R. Butler

    And what about the stories that Newton (at least in his youth) was Teh Ghey?

    (Yeah, I know: no videos, it didn’t happen.)

  17. 17
    Lotharloo

    Holyfuck, this is too fucking disturbing. It is too vile for me to copy/paste it here and I already felt dirty reading halfway through it. Seriously, where do these guys come from?

  18. 18
    Robotocracy

    This guy’s pretty obviously a troll. Read the rest of his posts – he doesn’t take himself seriously, his only goal is to gross people out.

  19. 19
    Tammy

    Back then, everyone without children died a virgin. Kinda like nuns today.

  20. 20
    Tapetum

    Tammy@19 – not really. Everyone who didn’t marry was supposed to die a virgin. Not quite the same thing.

    Most humans aren’t built for the lifelong virginity thing, which is one of the reasons it’s so ludicrous when religion tries to impose it.

  21. 21
    LRA

    Wow. Just wow.

    I suppose he doesn’t watch sex-positive feminist porn, huh?

    (In all fairness, neither do I. Porn just ain’t my thing.)

  22. 22
    debbaasseerr

    “sex-positive feminist porn” — one of those combinations of words that points to something not technically impossible, but only really exists theoretically, or in vanishingly tiny amounts.

  23. 23
    Warren

    Standing on the shoulders of giants?

    Bukkake: You’re doing it wrong.

  24. 24
    LRA

    Yes, it is a small sub-sector of the porn industry. It focuses on women of all shapes and sizes, plays up the use of prophylactics, engages in sex that is *actually* pleasurable for women, and includes themes from Third Wave feminism.

    I’m only aware of it because I read about it in an article in a magazine (darn if I can’t remember… Psychology Today or something like that?).

  25. 25
    Special One

    What did I tell you about the pimping, primping and tinkling!

    The dude has a whole bunch of moronic, nasty trolls… but you pull out what is, subject matter aside, common fucking sense. Yes. It’s just like science. You learn from those who went before. Duh.

    What the fuck Newton’s bizarre sexuality has to do with it is beyond me. Sir Isaac didn’t drive Formula One cars either… so what? Drivers still learn from other more experienced drivers right?

    Be champions!

  26. 26
    Glen Davidson

    The William Dembski’s of porn.

    I hear that Bill plans to die a science virgin, like the most of the DI. Behe’s still shameful that he once was did some science, but never again.

    Glen Davidson

  27. 27
    Anthony K

    I realize there is a lot to criticize about /b/’s sense of humor

    I have a friend who used to do that sort of thing. We’ve had long conversations about why I’m funny and he isn’t.

  28. 28
    Dr Zorro

    Galileo too never married, but according to Jacob Bronowski had “rather more children than a bachelor ought to have”

  29. 29
    cholten99

    > I thought you had a grant to write!

    In volatile research grant market the only sure proposal is one about porn!

    (With apologies to Avenue Q).

  30. 30
    Duncan

    Better to be knowledgable about porn than ignorant about everything.

    However there are so many more topics that are more worthwhile and he’s really stupid to equate what some people say on internet forums about porn with Newton’s achievements

  31. 31
    Gregory Greenwood

    So, assuming that he is not just a humour-deficient troll, this guy aspires to some kind of aficionado-dom when it comes pornography? Not merely looking at the odd explicit image, but consuming vast quantities of porn to such a degree that he immerses himself in the sexual objectification of women. And he considers this to be source of enlightenment comparable to the achievements of great scientists…

    Riiiigggght…

    Hi, creepy internet guy, there is this great thing I want to introduce you to – its called ‘reality’…

  32. 32
    Lotharloo

    Okay, I get it. The guy is a troll. Does it mean that he gets a cookie because I fell for it?

  33. 33
    Duncan

    Oh dear, I don’t think I’ve encountered a more disturbing comment on any topic than the first listed on that blog –

    [quote]Ha, I’m a surgeon and it’s hard not to get rock hard when operating on a beautiful woman. They’re just so fucking vulnerable! It’s like getting to touch a sleeping woman for hours on end. Is there anything more intimate than a womans internal organs? Once almost came in my pants when I had to touch a bonafide supermodels bladder. Her bladder! Christ! Can’t say I wouldn’t be very tempted not to jerk off if I had a free hands throughout surgery.[/quote]

  34. 34
    Duncan

    Damn quote tags :(

  35. 35
    zero

    Meh, garden-variety internet creep with more exposure than normal. Speaking of which, you shouldn’t have even posted this. “Do not feed the trolls!” As much as I love your blog, you are one of the biggest troll-feeders out there sometimes. I picture you in a hairnet holding a ladle dishing out from a big heating-tray full of science-snark.

  36. 36
    Warm Little Pond

    I think that STUDYING porn misses the point of porn entirely.

  37. 37
    Glodson

    The William Dembski’s of porn.

    I guess the next step would be to find the Irreducible Smut of porn that is too smutty to have evolved from any previous kind of porn.

  38. 38
    municipalis

    LRA: I’m only aware of it because I read about it in an article in a magazine (darn if I can’t remember… Psychology Today or something like that?).

    I know the author of Feminisnt.com (SFW) would fall into that category.

    She also designed this great bingo card, which looks like it might come in handy for this thread…

  39. 39
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    I followed over to ManBoobz as well. I just had to click through.

    I didn’t read it all, but I read something about tracking down the source of a porn clip and all the trouble he went to despite his sixth-sense for which directors work with what “topics and source material”. Compellingly bizarre, but also stomach-turning.

    Then I just below, I found the comment:

    “You were supposed to bring balance to the Internet Porn! Not Become it!”

    For the win.

  40. 40
    Rachel Bronwyn

    His remarks about how hard it is not to rape women under general anaesthesia were of particular concern to me.

  41. 41
    LRA

    @ municipalis

    ???

    Are you implying that I’m anti-porn? Please re-read what I wrote. I think that sex-positive porn is fine. The only porn I’ve seen is some dude pounding the sh*t out of a woman whose “oohs” and “ohs” looked completely fake. It was in *no* way exciting to me. It looked stupid. And painful. It was clearly meant to excite MEN not ME. That kind of porn sucks.

    But whatever. People can do what they like. If producing porn that makes 51% of the population think “OUCH!! THAT LOOKS PAINFUL!” floats yer boat, go ahead. I don’t care.

  42. 42
    skeptifem

    There are sociologists who monitor porn forums to see what the visitors are like, what they talk about. Gail Dines has many lectures online about what she found when she got into the pornography culture. It turns out that most of the dudes get off on the humiliation of women.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5003155114018800220

  43. 43
    IanKoro

    >I have a friend who used to do that sort of thing. We’ve had long conversations about why I’m funny and he isn’t.

    Well, I don’t entirely agree that it’s not always funny. I’m of the strong opinion that something being offensive does not make it unfunny, and I’ve actually seen quite a bit of EXTREMELY clever and funny stuff originate from /b/. Most people who’ve laughed at anything on the internet have probably been laughing at something that originated on 4chan, without realizing it. There just happens to be a lot of weirdos there as well.

    Porn, it should also be mentioned, is not in itself sexist or evil. It’s obviously an industry filled with problems, but to act like men are oppressing women because they enjoy pleasuring themselves to images of sex doesn’t make a lot of sense. Sure, it’s not appreciating the woman involved for the entire range of her character and personalities, but I also happen to be exploiting men or women for a very small range of their abilities when I have them make me a latte at Starbucks.

    There is porn that is deeply disturbing, where women are treated with derision and complete disrespect, but it’s also surprising how popular porn where weak willed men are sneered at and humiliated by groups of confident women, so it’s not entirely fair to zoom in on certain examples as representative of pornography as a whole.

    The Andrea Dworkin and John Stoltenberg idea that all porn is viewed out of hatred for women and is a form of rape is a pretty hateful and sickening belief in itself (not to mention the idea that marriage is nothing more than institutionalized rape). There exists in some people an idea that male sexuality is intrinsically violent and hateful, and this not only creates spite towards men, but also reinforces in some men that their violent fantasies are normal and “okay”.

    I remember hearing someone speaking about how awful pornography was, and they mentioned a site called Burning Angel, run by a woman, that featured Suicide Girl types, and contained a certain amount of humor and intelligence. They said that this site was a rarity, and that it *clearly* wasn’t what people actually wanted because most porn was not like that. I found that statement to be pretty silly, because I think this sort of thing is exactly what more men want, it’s just not all that available.

    I think most people in the industry are just unimaginative jerks who want plenty of sex and money, and it’s there to be had easily. The average friendly, intelligent male is probably going to be a lot more interested when they can actually see elements of intelligence and real personality in porn.

    I think we’re likely to begin to see more creative and interesting porn, now that the internet has made obtaining the stuff for free to be extremely easy. The only people who are still forking over cash are the technologically inept. The younger, more intelligent people certainly aren’t going to want these things popping up on their credit card bill when they can get it for free. Or at least I hope.

  44. 44
    municipalis

    @LRA

    Oh, I wasn’t implying that at all. I was just providing you with a reference source.

    The bingo card was aimed more towards the comment you were replying to:

    Debaser: “sex-positive feminist porn” — one of those combinations of words that points to something not technically impossible, but only really exists theoretically, or in vanishingly tiny amounts.

  45. 45
    municipalis

    @Skeptifem

    Gail Dines

    Unfortunately, her work tends to be more based in giant leaps of logic and moral panic than it is in anything substantive.

  46. 46
    Matt

    Cmon, everybody needs a hobby. Some people collect stamps, others build HAM radios, while others watch naked midgets fornicating. Different strokes, get it?

  47. 47
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    There are sociologists who monitor porn forums to see what the visitors are like, what they talk about. Gail Dines has many lectures online about what she found when she got into the pornography culture. It turns out that most of the dudes get off on the humiliation of women.

    What? EWWWWW. Thats’ just…I want to find out more about the study but am so not able to click that link right now. My mind is just reeling with what that means. I mean, most guys I know watch porn, including the guys I’ve dated.

    But I mean is it possible its just those who comment on porn boards and want to talk to other pigs like big men right? You say most but clearly thats just most of them, not most porn watchers, right? Are there studies about the subject that deal with this but don’t rely on internet boards for it?

    You know what? Right now I don’t want to know. Even if there’s other reasons for that kind of talk online, just talking like that creeps me the fuck out. Don’t care if trolling or not, its fucking creepy and wrong.

    I’m out. I’m human and I’ve reached my limit currently.

    /shudder

  48. 48
    LRA

    Ok. I probably would watch more porn if it matched, in any way, my experiences of pleasurable sex.

    The idea of having some dude stick a 12 inch long 6 inch girth penis into my anus and then ejaculating all over my face is completely and totally unappealing.

    The idea of having a normal sized guy make me have multiple o’s… well!! Is it getting hot in here???

    That’s the kind of porn I would want to see…

  49. 49
    Sili

    I’m not much of a connoisseur, but I have taken to commission quite a bit of the stuff now that I have a steady income.

  50. 50
    municipalis

    What? EWWWWW. Thats’ just…I want to find out more about the study but am so not able to click that link right now. My mind is just reeling with what that means. I mean, most guys I know watch porn, including the guys I’ve dated.

    Again, I wouldn’t put too much stock into Dine’s work. She’s highly selective of her evidence, paints with a broad brush, and makes silly assumptions about what men really want. She says stuff like “In pornography nobody makes love. They all make hate. The man makes hate to the woman’s body. It’s about the destruction of intimacy.”

    This editorial by Lynn Comella is pretty revealing:
    http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/news/2011/feb/02/feminists-gone-wild-response-porn-critic-gail-dine/

  51. 51
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    Again, I wouldn’t put too much stock into Dine’s work. She’s highly selective of her evidence, paints with a broad brush, and makes silly assumptions about what men really want. She says stuff like “In pornography nobody makes love. They all make hate. The man makes hate to the woman’s body. It’s about the destruction of intimacy.”

    Oh thank you so much for that. Its so good to hear, I will have to look at it all later. Its just will all these threads despair hit me hard this morning. I should know better than try to read these topics while eating breakfast.

  52. 52
    Pierce R. Butler

    debaser @ # 22: “sex-positive feminist porn” — one of those combinations of words that points to something not technically impossible, but only really exists theoretically, or in vanishingly tiny amounts.

    Not too far from here you can find a blogger who actually knows, and writes intelligently, about the subject.

  53. 53
    Agi

    @LRA 48.

    thats a bit like saying “I don’t like alcohol” after one sip of moonshine.

  54. 54
    LRA

    Well, I’ve asked people to point me in a good direction before… but no one seems to be able to.

    Yeah, I don’t like moonshine, but a nice glass of champagne would do.

    Do you know where the champagne of porn is?

  55. 55
    Special One

    The idea of having a normal sized guy make me have multiple o’s… well!! Is it getting hot in here???

    That’s the kind of porn I would want to see…

    You could check out some Japanese porn, but it won’t help. Normal sized guy? Check. Multiple o’s? Check. The kind of porn YOU want to see? In 99% of the cases… no.

    I like porn in which people at least seem to be having fun. Which in great part limits me to classic video-era porn from the 80s.

    As I told a friend once; “No good porn has been made since 1984.”

    His reply; “1984 was a porno!?”

  56. 56
    James

    planetsuzy.com tries to install adware when visited…

    Be careful..

  57. 57
    'Tis Himself

    As I told a friend once; “No good porn has been made since 1984.”

    His reply; “1984 was a porno!?”

    Remember Rule 34.

  58. 58
    Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM

    debaser, are you debaser17? If you don’t know what I’m talking about, that’s wonderful for you, and you’re going to want to change your nym.

  59. 59
    Rachel P

    Am I the only person who was way more alarmed about his remarks regarding wanting to fuck women under general anaesthesia than his porn obsession?

    Not that either is becoming.

  60. 60
    mouthyb, who should have been twins

    You know, I’m a person to whom the concept of watching two people fuck on film sounds great, but the execution is so frequently awful that I usually just don’t bother. No one seems like they’re having fun, they don’t typically highlight consent, and the standard facial expressions appear to be over-acted excitement, boredom or glassy-eyed pain.

    No thanks. I like mine with fun; since I’m kinky, I can totally watch someone hurt someone else, but it needs to come with enthusiastic consent, safety measures and seem like everyone involved is having a good time. Otherwise, it’s a serious turn-off. It’s too easy for me to wonder if everyone actually wants to be there or if there’s been some sort of coercion.

  61. 61
    mouthyb, who should have been twins

    Rachel P: Nope, I was also disturbed. I would not ever be alone with that guy, and I would warn other women not to be alone, or to accept anything to eat or drink from him.

  62. 62
    municipalis

    @mouthyb

    If that’s your thing, you might want to check out kink.com (obviously NSFW). They have a whole host of fetish websites, but all of them underline that everything is consentual, (they’re probably the only company that includes pre- and post- shoot interviews with their models for every shoot). There’s been a bunch of fairly interesting articles about them. I actually became interested in the nexus between porn and feminism after reading a second-wave feminist’s blog attacking the site, and seeing numerous men and women (including some of the site’s models) replying in the comments.

  63. 63
    mouthyb, who should have been twins

    municipalis: This is where I admit that I rather like fucked and bound. *blushes up to ears*

    And it’s precisely because of that. Because when I had a subscription, they had a consent section before and after, and everybody seemed absolutely keen to shoot before, and enthusiastically exhausted after. (shades of wheeeeeee)

    Gave me a warm (squishy) fuzzy.

    Most porn pisses me off, annoys me and bores me for the reasons I mentioned. And the weird “I watched you therefore I own you and am owed your obedience/appreciation/etc” thing which happens on the message boards is also a turn off.

  64. 64
    LykeX

    You could check out some Japanese porn, but it won’t help. Normal sized guy? Check. Multiple o’s? Check. The kind of porn YOU want to see? In 99% of the cases… no.

    Oh come on. Japanese porn is the best. It’s literally the weirdest shit you’ve ever seen in your life. It might not turn you on, but it’ll definitely get your attention.

  65. 65
    Sili
    As I told a friend once; “No good porn has been made since 1984.”

    His reply; “1984 was a porno!?”

    Remember Rule 34.

    You’re not into rats?

  66. 66
    Noadi

    Also going to cop to loving kink.com, they have some of the only straight porn I’ve ever found interesting (most of the best porn I’ve watched is gay porn).

    Holyfuck, this is too fucking disturbing. It is too vile for me to copy/paste it here and I already felt dirty reading halfway through it. Seriously, where do these guys come from?

    There is a saying among kinky folks “your kink is not my kink and that’s okay”. That fantasy doesn’t do anything for me but what keeps it out of the disturbing category for me is that it’s clearly consensual.

  67. 67
    stanton
    Surely studying porn is just a branch of Biological study? Human reproductive strategies etc.

    There is not very much reproduction resulting from masturbation.

    What if you were a hermaphrodite or parthenogenic?

  68. 68
    jakc

    Sure, Newton was a virgin, but what about Einstein? Like Warren Zevon wrote
    “Albert Einstein was a ladies’ man/ While he was working on his universal plan/He was making out like Charlie Sheen/He was a genius”
    This is I believe the only pop song to ever compare Einstein to Charlie Sheen

  69. 69
    debbaasseerr

    @ 58 — No, I don’t know what your talking about. The internet is huge, and debase is hardly an exotic or creative verb to pick for a username. I’ll change the spelling for future posts tho (I’ll do debbaasseerr, ok?)

    Greta’s writing is great, I haven’t read her stuff about porn though.

    However, so fucking what? Google “feminist porn”, and then try “rape porn” – my results were 800k for the former, and 14.5 million for the latter.

    Even better – “sex-positive feminist porn” – 133k. “anal gangbang rape porn” – 12.3 million.

    And, when feminists watch porn, apparently they mostly post to discussions on the internet, because threads like this is what you find. But the anal gangbanging rapists are much more about the video.

    Its great “sex positive feminist porn” even exists. Still, it is a tiny asteroid in orbit around the fucking Sun which makes up most porn consumed.

  70. 70
    DLC

    The Internet; you’ll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.(to paraphrase Obi-Wan) It’s the internet, of course there’s Porn.
    It’s like visiting Mos Eisley and not finding Storm Troopers.

  71. 71
    pelamun

    jakc: Comparing Einstein to Charlie Sheen makes my head explode..

  72. 72
    jakc

    Pelamun; that’s what Warren Zevon does to you. You can probably find the song on YouTube.

  73. 73
    John Morales

    Slugsie:

    Surely studying porn is just a branch of Biological study?

    I suppose that if you consider psychology a branch of biology, then yes; otherwise, not-so-much.

  74. 74
    Pierce R. Butler

    debaser @ # 69 (how apropos!): Greta’s writing is great, I haven’t read her stuff about porn though.

    Since she apparently hasn’t moved her archives from her previous blog location, start here.

  75. 75
    Mike La Torres

    Yeah, I’m kind of thinking that the “standing on the shoulders of giants” thing is more an analogy to what Newton was saying than a way of saying “I am trying to emulate Isaac Newton in every weird detail of his life”. Sort of like how saying Cambridge MA is a “humanist mecca” doesn’t mean that it’s literally the site of an annual Muslim pilgrimage in which a number of people are invariably trampled to death.

  76. 76
    IanKoro

    @69 “However, so fucking what? Google “feminist porn”, and then try “rape porn” – my results were 800k for the former, and 14.5 million for the latter. ”

    Oh come on, could you have chosen a less scientific standard? I’ll bet “safe sex porn” also fails to yield many results, but most porn from the upper tiers of the industry demands regular testing and condom use. While feminist porn is a real thing,you’re going to be pretty hard pressed to find anyone who is turned on *because* it is feminist. Searching for that makes as much sense as searching for “porn where the women don’t have an uncomfortable object stuck under them, impeding their enjoyment of the sex”.

  77. 77
    ChasCPeterson

    Reading comprehension, folks. Creepy-guy never said he wanted to rape or fuck women under general anesthesia, he said they made him want to masturbate.

    see, here’s a guy who really likes to masturbate.
    I guess.

    Actually, after reading that thing about Scarlett Johansson spraying whipped cream out of her asshole I feel both perplexed (my own tastes are pretty vanilla)(not in any way a reference to the whipped cream) and a bit underimaginative.

  78. 78
    orbitfold

    You have to be pretty clueless (or new to the internet?) to not be able to tell that the hadron-collider-semen guy is a massive troll. Not that wasting your time like that doesn’t indicate issues but they are most likely off a different kind than those imagined by whoever wrote that non-sense of a post there on manboobz.com.

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