Gut Reaction: The Dems are afraid of starting a civil war they know they are going to lose. The right has the military, the cops, and millions of private-gun-owning “militiamen” willing to form murderous lynch mobs at a moments notice. The “left” are mainly a bunch of sanctimonious anti-war activists who also call for gun control.
Who do you think is going to win? The side that is primed and enthusiastic about violence who have been preparing for ‘The Day of the Rope” for decades, or the side that’s adverse to it?
jack lecousays
@2:
To be afraid of starting a civil war implies considering that kind of upheaval to be a real possibility. I don’t think (most) Dems are capable of that . Most of them simply don’t seem to think real change can or will occur in the first place. Sure, maybe they think Trump is a little gauche or whatever, and they “strongly disagree” with his policies and legal interpretations etc., but that’s really all it is to them: some political differences. Because nothing really fundamental about the Republic can change, right? That’s just not how things are done. The status quo is and always will be the status quo.
Of course, deep down, I think they realize that’s not really true. To deal with that cognitive dissonance, I think they also try to go through the motions of how things are done extra hard just to make sure. Continue to “reach across the aisle” for a “reasonable compromise” on policy issues. Act as if promises and sworn testimony from nominees and so forth are still trustworthy. Etc. It’s all a sort of soothing ritual of sympathetic magic.
It is definitely getting in the way of what really needs to be done. And that is not necessarily civil war, but it is definitely not cooperation. There is good research into how fascist dictatorships work, and the fact is they are all pretty fragile underneath. They really on decorum, pre-emptive compliance, on cowing a few people into cooperation so the rest fall into line on their own. There are good strategies for resisting that (see work from, e.g., Daniel Hunter), but the Dems are not interested in the kind of playbook that would actually stand a chance of working. It would involve doing bold new things that might not have decades of precedent. And that’s just not how it’s done, doncha know…
jack lecousays
(s/really on decorum/rely on decorum)
stuffinsays
@3 jacl lecou – Continue to “reach across the aisle” for a “reasonable compromise” on policy issues.
The only reason the reach across the aisle now-a-days would be the choke someone.
jack lecousays
@5 stuffin: “…reach across the aisle to…choke someone.”
Or at least to tie their shoelaces together and help them fall on their face. But it would require the mental flexibility to recognize there’s a real problem, and the courage to take some personal risks to solve it. Both qualities are utterly lacking in what passes for Dem leadership. Much safer to reach across and shake hands and pretend everything is normal.
StevoRsays
@2. Akira MacKenzie : “Who do you think is going to win? The side that is primed and enthusiastic about violence who have been preparing for ‘The Day of the Rope” for decades, or the side that’s adverse to it?”
Not American so maybe I’m mistaken but wasn’t Abraham Lincoln very reluctatnt and averse to getting into the previous hot phase* of the Amnerican Civil War?
Didn’t the ethical non-slave owning, good side actually then go on to win that?
The democratic best ideals of America side now has to be be prepared to fight without pulling punches and win and when you do, you need to drive a stake through the metaphorical heart of the South Konfederacy this time and do NOT ever let them rise again. Do NOT ever let that worst aspects and culture of America side, the slave-owning hate-filled current RepugTrump side ever get its way again and make sure nobody like Trump can ever try and take over the USA again..
.* SF author David Brin** (among others?) argues that the Americam Civil War is on-going merely no longer (barely still) in a hot phase..
This is exactly it. Politicians are too trained to be “political” and calculating instead of actually putting up a fight.
Bekenstein Boundsays
Brin? Far left? You must be joking. If anything he’s a bit too centrist and not left enough.
Not that it matters. He’s dropped off the face of the earth, about a month ago, reasons unknown. Didn’t leave a note. Last blog post looked like business as usual, and then … nothing. I wonder if the MAGA troglodytes got to him.
Jazzletsays
John Morales
Are you saying Brin has become a right wing prosletyser? Or some other tedious thing? (serious questions)
Bekenstein Bound
I’m on the Tramadol today, so it’s quite possible I missed it but who was suggesting Brin was far left?
John Moralessays
“Are you saying Brin has become a right wing prosletyser? Or some other tedious thing? (serious questions)”
Not quite. He’s still clever, he’s still himself.
But… you know that uncle that repeats their stories?
[https://davidbrin.blogspot.com/]
DanDaresays
I saw a short vid of a dem at a town hall were the constituents were angry that they backed down from DOGE private security goons. The crowd at the town hall were saying they were willing to go and shirt front these guys, and get arrested if need be.
Jazzletsays
Ah, yes it is a problem some authors have, I suspect there is some pressure from agents and publishers in that direction, if an author has been successful with a particular kind of work why change the formula? Which almost always ends up with the later books being formulaic.
Georgia congressman confronted by angry crowd over support for Trump’s agenda
Gut Reaction: The Dems are afraid of starting a civil war they know they are going to lose. The right has the military, the cops, and millions of private-gun-owning “militiamen” willing to form murderous lynch mobs at a moments notice. The “left” are mainly a bunch of sanctimonious anti-war activists who also call for gun control.
Who do you think is going to win? The side that is primed and enthusiastic about violence who have been preparing for ‘The Day of the Rope” for decades, or the side that’s adverse to it?
@2:
To be afraid of starting a civil war implies considering that kind of upheaval to be a real possibility. I don’t think (most) Dems are capable of that . Most of them simply don’t seem to think real change can or will occur in the first place. Sure, maybe they think Trump is a little gauche or whatever, and they “strongly disagree” with his policies and legal interpretations etc., but that’s really all it is to them: some political differences. Because nothing really fundamental about the Republic can change, right? That’s just not how things are done. The status quo is and always will be the status quo.
Of course, deep down, I think they realize that’s not really true. To deal with that cognitive dissonance, I think they also try to go through the motions of how things are done extra hard just to make sure. Continue to “reach across the aisle” for a “reasonable compromise” on policy issues. Act as if promises and sworn testimony from nominees and so forth are still trustworthy. Etc. It’s all a sort of soothing ritual of sympathetic magic.
It is definitely getting in the way of what really needs to be done. And that is not necessarily civil war, but it is definitely not cooperation. There is good research into how fascist dictatorships work, and the fact is they are all pretty fragile underneath. They really on decorum, pre-emptive compliance, on cowing a few people into cooperation so the rest fall into line on their own. There are good strategies for resisting that (see work from, e.g., Daniel Hunter), but the Dems are not interested in the kind of playbook that would actually stand a chance of working. It would involve doing bold new things that might not have decades of precedent. And that’s just not how it’s done, doncha know…
(s/really on decorum/rely on decorum)
@3 jacl lecou – Continue to “reach across the aisle” for a “reasonable compromise” on policy issues.
The only reason the reach across the aisle now-a-days would be the choke someone.
@5 stuffin: “…reach across the aisle to…choke someone.”
Or at least to tie their shoelaces together and help them fall on their face. But it would require the mental flexibility to recognize there’s a real problem, and the courage to take some personal risks to solve it. Both qualities are utterly lacking in what passes for Dem leadership. Much safer to reach across and shake hands and pretend everything is normal.
@2. Akira MacKenzie : “Who do you think is going to win? The side that is primed and enthusiastic about violence who have been preparing for ‘The Day of the Rope” for decades, or the side that’s adverse to it?”
Not American so maybe I’m mistaken but wasn’t Abraham Lincoln very reluctatnt and averse to getting into the previous hot phase* of the Amnerican Civil War?
Didn’t the ethical non-slave owning, good side actually then go on to win that?
Also what I’ve noted here :
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2025/02/20/courage-is-what-we-need/comment-page-1/#comment-2255335
The democratic best ideals of America side now has to be be prepared to fight without pulling punches and win and when you do, you need to drive a stake through the metaphorical heart of the South Konfederacy this time and do NOT ever let them rise again. Do NOT ever let that worst aspects and culture of America side, the slave-owning hate-filled current RepugTrump side ever get its way again and make sure nobody like Trump can ever try and take over the USA again..
.* SF author David Brin** (among others?) argues that the Americam Civil War is on-going merely no longer (barely still) in a hot phase..
** See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brin
[meta]
StevoR, David Brin has gone funny. In my estimation, of course.
Quite familiar with him, part of my reading routine.
Put it this way, I read him now the way I used to read Jerry Pournelle.
(Different polarity, similar dotage)
@ ^ John Morales : Yikes. Okay, that’s not good. Didn’t know that. Thanks I guess.
.***
FWIW, there have been massive anti-Trump protests happening as this Kyle Kulinski video shows and discusses. 15 mins long.
This is exactly it. Politicians are too trained to be “political” and calculating instead of actually putting up a fight.
Brin? Far left? You must be joking. If anything he’s a bit too centrist and not left enough.
Not that it matters. He’s dropped off the face of the earth, about a month ago, reasons unknown. Didn’t leave a note. Last blog post looked like business as usual, and then … nothing. I wonder if the MAGA troglodytes got to him.
John Morales
Are you saying Brin has become a right wing prosletyser? Or some other tedious thing? (serious questions)
Bekenstein Bound
I’m on the Tramadol today, so it’s quite possible I missed it but who was suggesting Brin was far left?
“Are you saying Brin has become a right wing prosletyser? Or some other tedious thing? (serious questions)”
Not quite. He’s still clever, he’s still himself.
But… you know that uncle that repeats their stories?
[https://davidbrin.blogspot.com/]
I saw a short vid of a dem at a town hall were the constituents were angry that they backed down from DOGE private security goons. The crowd at the town hall were saying they were willing to go and shirt front these guys, and get arrested if need be.
Ah, yes it is a problem some authors have, I suspect there is some pressure from agents and publishers in that direction, if an author has been successful with a particular kind of work why change the formula? Which almost always ends up with the later books being formulaic.
Thanks John.