The Alabama Supreme Court has decreed that human life begins at conception and that terminating a blastocyst is a crime. This decision came about because three people, rightfully upset at the accidental loss of some frozen embryos (a property crime) decided to escalate the loss into an immoral act of murder in order to get retribution…and now look what they’ve done. They took advantage of a technology that involves excess production of embryos, making those embryos themselves, and then turned around and took legal action to make sure no one else could use those reproductive technologies themselves. Thanks, guys.
Then, of course, one of the most backward states in the union has ignorant religious zealots on their court (whoa, can’t hold that against Alabama, since the federal court has the same problem) who then decided that a small collection of undifferentiated cells is a “child”. Alabama ranks 47th in the nation on overall child well-being, but now they can claim to be first in the nation for overall “child”/tissue/zygote well-being.
The Alabama ruling is the first to attribute human rights to a developing organism at such an early stage following conception. The ruling states that “unborn children are ‘children,’” and that frozen embryos should be afforded the same protection as babies under the Wrongful Death of a Minor Act.
Lila Rose, president and founder of Live Action, a national antiabortion organization, heralded the court for showing “moral clarity” in ruling that the unborn deserve the same rights as children.
“You have children being created in petri dishes at will and then destroyed at will and used for experimentation,” Rose said. “It’s not acceptable to leave human beings on ice. It’s not acceptable to destroy them. These are not commodities.”
You know who creates these “children” in petri dishes? Hopeful parents who can’t conceive otherwise. I guess people who want children under those circumstances are going to have to flee Alabama, if they can afford it. IVF is a fairly expensive procedure so it’s mostly well-off people who can afford it, so this is another of those laws that will selectively hurt the poor and middle class — the rich will be unaffected. That’s why it’s safe for the sanctimonious Christians to applaud this decision, since it won’t hurt their priesthood, yet.
Jennifer Lincoln, a board certified OB/GYN who practices in Portland, Ore., said she doesn’t think people understand how “scary” the Alabama ruling is. She raised a common scenario: A patient undergoing IVF has an egg retrieval that leads to the creation of multiple embryos, with the hope that at least one turns into a live birth. If successful, the remaining embryos remain frozen for possible future use — but not all may be used.
“If someone has five embryos left and they decide not to have any more kids and want those embryos destroyed — and someone in that physician’s office hears that, could [the doctor] be criminalized for being an accomplice in a crime?” Lincoln asked.
I said “yet” because every Xian fanatic is cheering this decision as another avenue to attack women’s reproductive rights. The anti-choicers are gearing up to use that precedent as a tool to oppose abortion rights in Florida. Declaring that a “child” exists the instant sperm meets egg is a nice bit of sophistry to justifying outlawing abortion…and also, eventually, contraception. Oh, look, a nice example of a “slippery slope”!
Now that Alabama’s supreme court on Friday took the remarkable step of declaring that frozen embryos are “children,” a conservative group is trying to derail an expected 2024 ballot initiative in Florida that would enshrine abortion rights in that Sunshine State’s constitution.
On Monday, a religious civil rights law firm alerted the Florida Supreme Court to the neighboring state’s recent ruling in an attempt to have the high court block the amendment from reaching voters as it currently stands.
Earlier this month, the conservative-leaning Florida court heard arguments on the proposed constitutional amendment. It will decide by April 1 whether to approve the language in the measure, which states, “No law shall prohibit, penalize, delay, or restrict abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the patient’s health, as determined by the patient’s healthcare provider.”
Please note that these same black-robed dingbats who are wallowing in their self-righteous, superficial pretense of respect for human life are the same people who approve of the state experimenting with novel methods for executing prisoners. It did not go well.
Kenneth Smith, who survived an attempt by the state to execute him by lethal injection in 2022, was put to death Thursday evening in Atmore, the rural home to Alabama’s execution chamber near the Florida state line, Governor Kay Ivey’s office confirmed.
Smith, 58, was executed at 8:25 p.m. local time, according to a press release issued by the state Department of Corrections.
The execution took roughly 22 minutes, the Associated Press reported. He appeared to stay conscious for “several minutes” after the gas began to flow, shaking and writhing and sometimes pulling against the restraints of his gurney for more than two minutes, the wire service added.
See? Alabama does not oppose all technological advances. They just have to be technologies that kill the right people.
Now imagine Trump gets in and puts another “Justice” or two on the SCOTUS “Court”..
Next up: Child support payments for zygotes
Leviticus, Ch. 17 V. 11: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood.” V. 14: “For the life of every creature is the blood of it.”
The Alabama Supreme Court is defying the Bible.
You’d think these people could, at the very least, read their own damn holy book.
Reginald Selkirk@2 I expect we’re going to see a “fetal detention” law proposed sooner or later. A woman won’t be allowed to leave the state if in intervener has reason to suspect she’s pregnant and might leave the state for an abortion. Which of course will be used to limit women doing any sort of travel, because who can really be sure a woman isn’t pregnant at any random date?
There’s a clear solution. First, the frozen children must be thawed out and brought to term. I suggest that anti-abortion advocates should volunteer en masse to be surrogates. And second, they must all be adopted and raised to adulthood, for which purpose I suggest the members of the Alabama Supreme Court.
Since anti-choicers generally stop caring about the well-being of children after they’re born, they may stop requiring child support for actual children in favor of embryos.
@3. feralboy12 :
Then there’s Lewviticus 26.7 as quoted by Betty Bowers here at the 1minute 39 mark stating that children are only counted as children at the one month old mark post birth and , oh yeah, boys are worth five shekels whilst girls are only worth three…
.. Who woulda thought the OT Gawd would actually be more reasonable than many of today’s Christianist followes in at least this regard huh? Not that they follow much else he says there anyhow.. as this classic old West Wing scene points out.
We have finally achieved Human Immortality!! You can now live forever, as long as you don’t mind living in liquid nitrogen.
Does anyone expect Texas to eventually follow in the footsteps of Alabama? I’m curious as to who will be charged with the deaths of hundreds of frozen embryos the next time that the Texan power distribution network fails, the State legislature for not unifying the grid or the massed ranks of pastors for not successfully interceding with their god to moderate the weather?
This makes abortion into first degree murder, with the possibility of the death penalty in Alabama.
If a zygote is a child, then abortion is killing that child.
Abortion is already a death penalty offense in Georgia.
There are bills pending in several Red states including Texas, Idaho, and Missouri that would also make abortion a death penalty offense.
The christofascists really want to see women executed for abortion, preferably live on TV.
We all know the first women executed will be young, poor, and nonwhite.
Doesn’t IVF usually require a bunch of implantation attempts before you get a viable one?
Needless to say, this ruling from the Alabama Supreme court is the judges creating laws by themselves.
Sometimes called “legislating from the bench.”
The right wingnuts hated that when liberal judges were enforcing the Civil Rights laws.
This isn’t either legal or moral.
In our democracy, enacting laws is (or was) the function of the people by electing the state legislature. And also in many states by direct Referendum where people vote on new laws.
The Alabama Attorney General has already said he can force pregnant women to stay in Alabama and not flee the state to have an abortion elsewhere.
This is a lot like slavery. Instead of the Fugitive Slave Act we have the Fugitive Pregnant Woman Act.
He is also creating his own laws out of thin air, a power that legally he doesn’t have either.
It makes sense sort of. If an embryo is a legal person, then taking that person out of state for an abortion is both kidnapping and murder.
The Federal government has already said no, this isn’t going to happen.
“Those prosecutions would violate the Constitutional right to travel across state lines, according to the DOJ motion.”
I’m sure this issue will come up again and again.
Alabama may just start arresting women who are flight risks and letting them sit in jail until they give birth. Something already done for some substance abuse users.
Amber alert Everytime a pregnant woman leaves the house without the sperm donor.
Child trafficking charges for any travel that is unauthorized .
Stay out of Alabama and soon half of all states.
Human beings that have been frozen cannot be resurrected, so the fact these blastocysts can be frozen… and successfully thawed out… shows they have not developed the complexity (and inherent vulnerability) of human beings.
…frozen embryos should be afforded the same protection as babies under the Wrongful Death of a Minor Act.
So…which women are now obligated by law to implant and carry EVERY ONE OF THOSE THOUSANDS OF FROZEN EMBRYOS to term?! Is Alabama gonna have a statewide conscription system to ensure all those “babies” get born?
Were those judges even thinking of what their ruling means AT ALL?
This ignorant ruling is really going to make IVF in Alabama somewhere between difficult and impossible.
One common reason to use IVF is for genetic testing. If couples are having trouble conceiving due to being carriers for a genetic disease or are known carriers, the embryos can be screened for that trait and the ones with Downs, thalassaemia, cystic fibrosis, or whatever are tossed.
Not anymore.
Not in Alabama.
That embryo is a real person, doomed to a short life of misery.
Shrug.
Any Reproductive Specialist or OB/GYN in Alabama is going to very seriously think about getting out of Alabama fast.
Who wants to spend 1/2 hour breathing nitrogen until you are dead for being a doctor and accidentally pouring a single celled child down the sink?
This makes my brain hurt for so many reasons.
Wouldn’t the Christian faithful condone straight up sex to make new humans rather than making them in a petri dish/lab? Science becomes their friend when it enhances one of their beliefs.
All these extreme laws taking away people’s (mostly women’s) freedoms and control of self was triggered by the SC overturning Roe/Wade.
PS: the people who work in these embryo storage areas may need insurance in case they kill some by accident. But can they be insured against being convicted of murder?
Raven @18: NPR was already reporting yesterday morning that all the fertility clinics in Alabama were saying that they’d have to close as a result of this ruling.
Someone needs to push legislation that a man dumping a load of semen into a kleenex just comitted 150,000 counts of premeditated murder. And of course, swallowing a glob of hot cum is cannibalism. Won’t someone stand up for the children?
I think its time for Alabamans to start considering the rights of tumors. It’s human DNA, and god put it there, right?
raven @ #13 —
I haven’t heard or read that phrase in a long time. It was used a lot by folks in the South in the 50s/60s to describe Warren court decisions on school desegregation, etc. In the case of Alabama, the legislators would probably gladly pass laws…even state constitutional amendments…to enshrine this stupidity. For one thing, it would ensure them lots of votes and maintain their job security.
What would a wet dream be considered under this law? Second degree nocturnal emission?
I suspect that’s the idea. These people think children are a gift from God, so IVF is like stealing from God. As far as they’re concerned, the only acceptable treatment for infertility is prayer.
They’d see this as thwarting God’s will.
10 to 20 percent of pregnancies women are aware of ends in miscarriage. but is likely higher because many miscarriage before they know they are pregnant.
lets say 25% . the average number of kids per couple is about 2. so the odds of not having a miscarriage in two pregnancies is (0.75)^2, or 56%. which means about 44% of women have had one or more miscarriages.
is alabama going to charge 44% of its population for murder? death penalty?
what are the logistics to do so?
is alabama going to take away women’s rights?
prevent them from getting an education. only let them out with the head male of the household. take away their drivers license. hey, maybe they can force them to wear a head cover of some sort too?
hmmm, sounds familiar.
Why isn’t the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment interpreted as prohibiting the imposition of naked religious beliefs?
Some of the xians may claim that.
.1. The fact is, in a place like Alabama, probably many or most of the people using IVF are…xians.
For a lot of people, the desire for children is strong and they will do anything possible to have them.
Infertility in the USA is common, running around 10% of the population.
Assisted reproductive technologies are also common.
.2. The three main sacraments of the fundies are hate, lies, and hypocrisy. The fundies are used to ignoring their church leaders when it isn’t something they want to pay attention to.
You could say that about going to the doctor for an illness.
God wants you to die from that cancer or Covid-19 virus infection.
I was unable to find much information about how many xians actually believe what their Fascist leaders tell them to believe.
I’m sure IVF is like the Catholics and birth control.
Birth control use among Catholic women is 98%. They know the old men leadership is wrong and just ignore them.
Here is one source.
Commonweal is a Catholic magazine.
The Catholic church opposes IVF to the point where they sometimes won’t baptize children produced through IVF, calling them devil children.
The majority of lay Catholics don’t have a problem with IVF.
Hypothetically, how would one go about charging these right wing judges for practicing medicine without a license? They are not qualified to define what an embryo is and have zero business making that determination.
I dunno, sounds like a plot to steal Good Christian genetic material and siphon it into a barren non-Christian household. In other words, Satan’s plan.
No wonder they banned it. They have a mandate to oppose the principalities of darkness, dontchaknow.
Actually, this decision by the Alabama Supreme Court may prove to be incredibly expensive for the state. Alabama has a safe haven statute that permits the anonymous surrender of any child under 72 hours old. See, Alabama Code Section 26-25-1, et seq. By anonymously surrendering blastocysts to an appropriate emergency medical provider or hospital, two results obtain: 1, the person surrendering the “child” has a defense to a claim of abandonment, nonsupport, and child endangerment, and 2, the state becomes responsible for the safe protection of the blastocyst. I can certainly imagine that the state will contract the care and feeding of such abandoned blastocysts, in perpetuity, to those facilities already equipped to do so.
Nice one, sherlock!
(sorry, couldn’t resist inverting the usually-sarcastic usage).
I was thinking along similar lines if sillier; this will add a whole new aspect to adopting a child.
John Morales @34
I can see the ads now ” Have you always wanted a child, but can’t fit one in your busy life?”
“Want a child, but don’t want to give up your spare bedroom/games room/home office?”
They love children so much, and yet children get gunned down in their classrooms. Teachers have to get a second job at Walmart to pay for materials they use to teach kids.
raven, @ #29:
And some of them do.
Someone needs to push legislation that a man dumping a load of semen into a kleenex just comitted 150,000 counts of premeditated murder.
All together now: “E-e-e-e-every sperm is sa-a-a-a-a-acred…”
Um, for those wanking on about semen, be aware that spermatozoa are not blastocysts.
StevoR @ # 7: Then there’s Lewviticus 26.7 as quoted by Betty Bowers here at the 1minute 39 mark stating that children are only counted as children at the one month old mark post birth …
I didn’t follow your link, but I looked up Lev 26:7 and found –
An uplifting sentiment, to be sure, but one requiring quite a bit of exegesis in this context. P’rhaps you meant Lev 27:6 –
I think these verses refer to prices for slaves, but possibly they have to do with homicide penalties or suchlike. If the former, we have clear proof that Yahweh doesn’t support that free-market stuff.
@ 17
NO.
Given that a disturbingly large number of misogynist fascists have no idea of how biology works, it begs the question of why they are allowed to make laws that dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/susan-milligan/2015/02/24/idaho-lawmaker-asks-about-swallowing-cameras-to-get-pregnancy-pictures
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/idaho-lawmaker-asks-if-swallowing-small-camera-could-allow-remote-gynecological-exams/
@20 Theoretically, you could get indemnified against manslaughter, which is what accidentally pouring a blastocyst down the sink would be. Of course, “accidental” is in the eye of the beholder…
@18, 29 Back when I was still in journalism, I was assigned to cover a doctor whose IVF clinic had a 50% success rate for implantation. At the time (20-25 years ago), that success rate was unheard of. The standard procedure at the time was to retrieve as many ova as possible, fertilize them in vitro and wait and see which ones grew & thrived in the petri dish. At that period in time, a 25% implantation rate was considered pretty good, so doctors were implanting 4-6 embryos in the hopes that ONE would result in a viable pregnancy. (This was all happening prior to the Human Genome Project, so genetic counseling was pretty primitive.) If all 4-6 embryos implanted, you were then faced with a a painful choice: selectively terminate SOME of the fetuses in the hopes that the remaining fetuses would grow and thrive in utero or carry ALL the fetuses to term, or attempt to, at considerable risk to ALL the fetuses and the mother.
Not infrequently, one or more of the fetuses would spontaneously abort, which could also cause the loss of the other fetuses. The miscarriage would also put the health and life of the mother at considerable risk.
Even if all the fetuses carried to term and were born live, there were still problems with the infants themselves. Most of them would be born considerably smaller and incidence of birth defects for a multiple birth is considerably higher, so even after birth, the infant mortality rate for a multiple birth is much higher. (Failure to thrive, low birth weight, etc.) Humans aren’t really meant to birth litters. (Hint: TWO mammaries, not six.)
With a 50% implantation rate, if one embryo implants, success! If both embryos implanted, usually the parents would frequently decide that their family was now complete and were fine with twins. Twin pregnancy is still considered a high risk pregnancy, but not nearly as high risk as quadruplets, quintuplets, etc.
The doctor who attained a 50% implantation success rate figured out that he could increase the viability by switching the IVF media from anaerobic to aerobic media after the first few days and also by controlling for contaminants. (No perfumes or other fragrances, no hairspray or other hair products, no nail polish, no underarm deodorant, frequent hand washing with unscented soap.)
The advancement of IVF technique, the decrease in risk to the mother and fetuses and the increased pregnancy rate was only possible by experimenting on embryos.
As part of the story, I photographed the initial presentation of prospective applicants for the IVF clinic. (The prospective patients were photographed backlit/silhouetted to protect their privacy.) The demand for this clinic’s services were so great that interested parents were asked to attend a lecture to outline the general procedure, risks, costs, etc. The cost typically ran between 150K-350K in Y2K money. The presentation room was packed.
Let’s not forget that Alabama, that state that likes to yap endlessly about how deeply they care about the rights of the unborn child is also the state that appointed an actual pedophile and sex offender Roy Moore first to chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court and then as the Republican candidate for the Senate in 2017. Because Alabama doesn’t actually give a rat’s ass about actual children, just imaginary ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore
How about actual protection for actual kids instead of fake protection for imaginary ones?
https://apnews.com/article/harmony-montgomery-father-murder-trial-e356c17be1ec2abbe7d339feab165a91
PBS Newshour on this story here :
Source : https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-an-alabama-supreme-court-ruling-that-frozen-embryos-are-children-impacts-ivf
of cours ethe assertion that the USA is a Christian nation where ” there should be no daylight really between church and state.” is the OPPOSITE of what its founding (slave-holding) Fathers intended but still.. Originalism huh?
@40.Pierce R. Butler
21 February 2024 at 5:59 pm
StevoR @ # 7: Then there’s Lewviticus 26.7 as quoted by Betty Bowers here at the 1minute 39 mark stating that children are only counted as children at the one month old mark post birth …
I didn’t follow your link, but I looked up Lev 26:7 and found –
And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
An uplifting sentiment, to be sure, but one requiring quite a bit of exegesis in this context. P’rhaps you meant Lev 27:6 –
And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.
I think these verses refer to prices for slaves, but possibly they have to do with homicide penalties or suchlike. If the former, we have clear proof that Yahweh doesn’t support that free-market stuff.
D’oh! Yes that second one, sorry.
Wow, even the Bible doesn’t consider a newborn to be alive until they take their first breath. This is crazy ! I’m terrified for my great granddaughter and my grand niece