Think last week was stressful? Brace yourself for next week

The insurrectionists are back-pedaling frantically. Charlie Kirk is claim now that it was “stupid” and “unwise” to invade the capitol, but not criminal. They didn’t mean it! Another benefit of the collapse of Parler (and it’s sloppy coding) is that their plans in the runup have been exposed, and while I can agree that they are “stupid”, the intent is transparent. A sampling:

Is anyone surprised that Amazon and Apple removed all support for Parler?

What I find ominous, though, is that only a few in that sample mention the 6th of January — most were focused on the 20th, the day of the inauguration. Next week. Will the Washington DC police finally take these threats seriously? Will the bad guys try to sneak in by mingling with the inauguration crowds? Are some of the planning acts of terrorism against random people?

Maybe they just want to make sure that the inauguration is even smaller than Trump’s. Mission accomplished, I suspect: I wouldn’t recommend attending.

I sure won’t. That’s the day after my classes begin!


  1. cartomancer says

    I found myself in a very weird place today, as I was teaching my A-Level class the first book of Tacitus’s Histories. This book is about the various coups and insurrections of the tumultuous 69AD (the Year of Four Emperors). We were looking mainly at the account of Otho’s usurpation of power from Galba on January 15th.

    It was rather strange resuming this text after the Christmas break to find that an invasion of the Capitol by supporters of a paranoid wannabe tyrant had in fact happened in the interim, albeit a derivative Capitol and a far less impressive paranoid tyrant than Otho. There was even vacillation as to how those in charge should respond – either holing up and avoiding the mobs or sending troops out to quell them. It was eerie.

  2. killyosaur says

    I haven’t investigated a source, but from what I’ve heard, they are bringing in 20K national guard, guns ready, to protect the inauguration. If an insurrection attempt occurs, it will not go as the insurrectionists expect…

  3. larrylyons says

    ” Will the Washington DC police finally take these threats seriously?”

    You don’t live in the area. That said going to work yesterday, one thing I did notice was the high degree of paranoia among the DC police. They were pretty paranoid last week leading up to the riot. The Federal Capitol Police on the other hand wasn’t. And then there was the Mango Mussolini’s minions deliberately delaying outside intervention from the National Guard and State Police. Both Maryland and Virginia had state police and National Guard forces ready to assist, but both the Whitehouse and Pentagon deliberately delayed approval.

    So cut the DC cops a break they have to deal with tRump’s fallout.

  4. Duckbilled Platypus says

    Although I hope they are not underestimated for what havoc they’re capable of, it does not seem these insurrectionists have the means of organizing as well as one expects from, say, a national guard. Assuming law enforcement this time doesn’t want to be caught with their pants down.

    So I also imagine an angry mob with maybe some locally gathered militia here and there, ready, I guess, to run mouth-foaming into batons and bullets. Hopefully rubber ones.

  5. voidhawk says

    From what I understand, it isn’t just DC. Trump’s Yahoos are planning on showing up to the statehouse of all 50 states.

  6. Duckbilled Platypus says

    He can’t pardon insurrectionists that plan to hit the inauguration on the 20th, because he’ll no longer be president after that.

    He might pardon the 6th of January insurrectionists, but I doubt he will. They’re fodder to him and he’ll be too busy trying to pardon family and friends, and himself.

  7. Artor says

    There shouldn’t BE an inauguration crowd. In case Biden hadn’t noticed, there’s a deadly pandemic going on. He should have a small ceremony with an extremely limited slate of guests, all masked and distanced, He should take pride in having the LEAST attended inauguration in history, saving his guest from both the virus, and the plague of Nazis.

  8. raven says

    Will the Washington DC police finally take these threats seriously?

    There was a massive failure in intelligence gathering and planning last week by DHS/FBI.

    Why Didn’t The FBI And DHS Produce A Threat Report Ahead of The Capitol Insurrection?
    January 13, 20217:16 PM ET NPR

    A spokesperson from DHS’ Office of Intelligence and Analysis confirmed to NPR that the agency didn’t produce any threat assessment about the possibility of violence on Jan. 6. The FBI confirmed it didn’t produce one either. Instead, DHS provided a report about the “heightened threat environment during the 2020-2021 election season, including the extent to which the political transition and political polarization are contributing to the mobilization of individuals to commit violence,” the DHS spokesperson said.

    This was despite the fact that a high school kid could have written those threat assessment reports and issued the warnings.
    All the planning was out in the open on the internet.

    I’m sure it was a mixture of incompetence after Trump burned down the Federal government agencies and deliberate as well. How much of one versus the other should be up to the next congressional investigation to find out.

  9. raven says

    He might pardon the 6th of January insurrectionists, but I doubt he will.

    It would fit in with Trump’s current plan to burn down as much of the Federal government as he can and own the libs.

    It wouldn’t take more than a minute or two.
    A blanket pardon in a sentence or two.
    Probably written by one of his aides so it reads like it was written by an English speaker.

  10. says

    January 20 is the first day of spring semester instruction for me. I teach calculus during the final hour of the Trump administration and precalculus during the first hour of the Biden administration. After my class sessions are over, I’ll check the news media for the latest body count, because I expect acts of violence to be met with lethal force on that day. Members of Congress should keep their heads down. Way down.

  11. says

    You don’t live in the area. That said going to work yesterday, one thing I did notice was the high degree of paranoia among the DC police.

    Probably because the less stupid of them have caught up upon the fact that there is indeed a chance that they#ll be beaten to death with a thin blue line flag by an off-duty colleague.

  12. says

    Warnings about rightwing extremism were raised a decade ago, and those who raised them were threatened into silence, their careers destroyed for daring to tell the truth. The US could end up with a guerilla war for the next 20 years because it failed to weed out white supremacy when it had the chance.

    Those who silenced the warnings liked the racism in government and policing, just not the violence. They should be held accountable because they made current events possible. But likely never will.

    Duckbilled Platypus (#1) –

    What do they have against teachers? They clearly never met one.

    Look up what the khmer rouge did to anyone they deemed “intellectual”, even those who simply wore glasses. For decades, the Coup Klux Klan have been spewing the same anti-science, anti-education rhetoric as the KR. The only difference between them is christianity instead of marxism.

  13. says

    There won’t be any crowd and you couldn’t attend if you wanted to. The National Mall is closed and will stay closed for the foreseeable future.

  14. sc_e7cb37166b0ed7e2545034076d87e16c says

    I really wish Joe & Kamala would hold the inauguration at a secure, undisclosed location, recorded for re-broadcast later.

  15. petesh says

    @9 @17: The inauguration and its celebrations are being organized as essentially virtual events. This FAQ from AP and WTOP, a D.C. outlet, has a lot of details:

    The outgoing idiot is supposedly planning an attempt to upstage it.

    The Trump team has reportedly not decided whether that sendoff would be at the White House or at Palm Beach International Airport in Florida, where the President plans to go that day. According to CNN, Trump is unhappy with the idea of having to ask Biden for permission to use Air Force One for his departure.

  16. KG says

    the Coup Klux Klan – Intransitive@14

    I read somewhere: “Coup Klutz Klan”.

    The National Mall is closed and will stay closed for the foreseeable future. – cervantes

    I understand that’s been denied – closed for Inauguration Day, but not otherwise. But perhaps a Washingtonian (DC-ite?) can tell us definitely.

    My concern would be with Nazis in the Secret Service or National Guard – those guarding political leaders are always in the best position to assassinate them (e.g. Indira Gandhi).

  17. whheydt says

    Re: voidhawk @ #7…
    GAvin Newsom (Gov. of Calif.) is activating 1000 state national guard to be in Sacramento this weekend.

    The threat the state capitols is for 17 Jan….this Sunday.

  18. PaulBC says

    raven@11 I am trying to imagine Trump issuing a pre-emptive pardon for all who commit federal crimes at the inauguration and a self-pardon for inciting the rebellion that will result from offering impunity. It seems like you shouldn’t be able to use pardons that way, but I would expect the usual suspects (at least 80% of the GOP congress) to defend it as totally normal and acceptable behavior for a president (as long as Democrats don’t try that shit).

    In practice, I think he may be too distracted to come up with something like that. I am sure he has no interest in pardoning anyone from last week, not unless there’s a way for them to be useful to him. He views those who fail as embarrassment, Michael Cohen for instance.

  19. KG says

    Looks like Trump has tapped into a crazy vein that’s nowhere near tapped out. – stroppy@19

    True. And “many people are saying” that the next American fascist leader will be smarter and more organised than Trump. But I have my doubts about whether he’s easily replaceable. Trump is lazy, and in many ways not very bright, but he reminds me of this assessment of Adolf Hitler:

    “Adolf Hitler enters a hall. He sniffs the air. For a minute he gropes, feels his way, senses the atmosphere. Suddenly he bursts forth. His words go like an arrow to their target, he touches each private wound on the raw, liberating the mass unconscious, expressing its innermost aspirations, telling it what it most wants to hear. If he tries to bolster up his argument with theories or quotations from books he has only imperfectly understood, he scarcely rises above a very poor mediocrity. But let him throw away his crutches and step out boldly, speaking as the spirit moves him, and he is promptly transformed into one of the greatest speakers of the century…. Hitler responds to the vibrations of the human heart with the delicacy of a seismograph, or perhaps of a wireless receiving set, enabling him, with a certainty with which no conscious gift could endow him, to act as a loud-speaker proclaiming the most secret desires, the least admissible instincts, the sufferings and personal revolts of a whole nation. But his very principle is negative. He only knows what he wants to destroy. He pulls down the walls without any idea of what he will build in their place.” – Otto Strasser

    Strasser was an early member of the Nazi Party, who knew Hitler personally, but took the “socialist” part of the name seriously, was expelled by Hitler in 1930, and fled the country when the latter came to power.

  20. KG says

    Yes, it’s now in Trump’s interest to pretend that the Capitol invaders were nothing to do with him – indeed, he’s apparently been repeating the “Antifa” lie. And if he did pardon them, they would be unable to invoke the Fifth Amendment if called to testify against him.

  21. PaulBC says

    The Trump mob also reveals confusion to the point of category error. From NYT:

    In Cleveland County, Okla., the chairman of the local Republican Party openly wondered “why violence is unacceptable,” just hours before a mob stormed the U.S. Capitol last week. “What the crap do you think the American revolution was?” he posted on Facebook. “A game of friggin pattycake?”

    How am I supposed to respond? I “think” The American revolution was a revolutionary war. The name is kind of a giveaway. If you’re declaring war on the US, you don’t get to chair a local party like it’s government as usual. That’s the choice here. As the Declaration of Independence states “Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes.”

    Nobody ever said that people cannot rebel against their own government, nor that they shouldn’t ever do so. But a statement like the above is seditious. Trump Republicans seem to want it both ways. That somehow they are “in charge” of the government of the US, and believe Trump “won” the election, but they’ve declared the government as illegitimate as George III’s control over the American colonies.

    I don’t want a war, but they’re the ones declaring war. I think they should be treated as any other enemy.

  22. says

    @#14, Intransitive

    Warnings about rightwing extremism were raised a decade ago

    Try “in the 1990s under Clinton”. “Right-wing militias” were in the news all the way back then. The truly astonishing thing is that neither Clinton nor Obama seem to have considered them to be worth really prosecuting.

    (Or maybe not so astonishing… given Obama’s more recent, post-White-House statements about things, he was apparently so terrified that the Republicans would call him names that he let them dictate policy in all kinds of ways. He has now admitted that he knew — just as everybody who was paying attention did — that the drone bombing he kept ordering was mostly killing innocent civilians, but he felt he had to keep killing them because otherwise the Republicans might say he was “soft on terror”. What a great guy! Gosh, I remember back in 2008, when I voted for him thinking he was a Democrat.)

  23. PaulBC says

    KG@23 The US isn’t prewar Germany either. There are plenty of people who feel wounded by imagined slights, but they don’t seem to have the discipline to put together an effective national organization. I think the US is going to look like 90s Yugoslavia before it ever looks like Nazi Germany. I admit I don’t know enough about either to make that statement with any confidence. I don’t expect the outcome to be good either way, but Trumpists don’t have their Albert Speer or Wernher von Braun as far as I can tell. They dismiss nearly anything that would require social cohesion and commitment to goals other than fomenting chaos.

    Note: I am not glorifying Nazi Germany, and I apologize if I give that impression. I just think the US is a different case entirely.

  24. raven says

    Hopefully when Trump exits he’ll be so harassed by lawsuits and failing support that he’ll start to shut down.

    If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably isn’t.
    We can hope though, and in this case, there are some good reasons for it.

    Trump’s little temper tantrum when he lost the election is costing him a lot.
    .1. His bank, Deutsche Bank, is abandoning him any way they can.
    Of course, the US banks long ago decided he wasn’t a good credit risk.
    .2. A lot of his business counterparties are also abandoning him.
    New York city is canceling their contracts with the Trump organization.
    .3. I doubt if the Trump brand is worth all that much either.
    .4. Even parts of the GOP, a wholly owned subsidiary of Trump are starting to abandon him.
    .5. There are also a lot people who are going after him after he loses the quasi-immunity of being president for taxes etc..
    .6. His mind also seems to be going downhill, probably due to some age related condition.

    Power and money are interchangeable and Trump is definitely losing power.
    Ironically, none of this had to be this way.
    Trump could have easily been the hero of the Covid-19 pandemic by doing nothing. Just stand aside, be the front person, and let the scientists and medical people do what they know how to do, which is deal with pandemics.

  25. raven says

    Oklahoma GOP traitor:
    “What the crap do you think the American revolution was?”

    Not very bright, a GOP core value.
    The better analogy would be the US Civil War.

    “What the crap do you think the US Civil War was?”
    A five year conflict that killed hundreds of thousands of Americans.
    And oh yeah, your side lost!!!
    You lost again too. Deal with it loser.

  26. fossboxer says

    Do people really think the Feds will be caught with their pants down this time around? Expect a massive contingency of armed guard troops, along with the assets they bring along for show, if nothing else. Drones? APCs? Snipers? Tanks? Attack helicopters?

    When responses to these redneck threats are met with adjectives like, “chilling” and “terrifying” and “frightening”, y’all queda has already won. They eat this stuff up. Terrorists being terrorists.

    DC shit stirrers WILL be met with overwhelming force. Thousands of well-armed National Guard troops are already there, sleeping on the floors of the Capitol, a reflex action to last week’s attack. I’m more worried about damage done to historical sites and buildings caused by military-grade return fire, than any loss of innocent life. Will state governments be similarly prepared? One hopes.

  27. larrylyons says

    Just an update on my previous post. The Washington Post had a pretty article about the account of two of the DC cops on the front page. It’s pretty brutal what they went through. Here’s how one DC police described it:

    “They were overthrowing the Capitol, the seat of democracy, and I f—ing went,” Fanone said.
    The officers at the West Terrace eventually pushed people away from the doors. It was only then that Fanone saw the immense, volatile crowd stretched out in front of him and realized what police were up against.

    “We weren’t battling 50 or 60 rioters in this tunnel,” he said in the first public account from D.C. police officers who fought to protect the Capitol during last week’s siege. “We were battling 15,000 people. It looked like a medieval battle scene.”

    Someone in the crowd grabbed Fanone’s helmet, pulled him to the ground and dragged him on his stomach down a set of steps. At around the same time, police said, the crowd pulled a second officer down the stairs. Police said that chaotic and violent scene was captured in a video that would later spread widely on the Internet.

    Rioters swarmed, battering the officers with metal pipes peeled from scaffolding and a pole with an American flag attached, police said. Both were struck with stun guns. Fanone suffered a mild heart attack and drifted in and out of consciousness.

    All the while, the mob was chanting “U.S.A.” over and over and over again.

    “We got one! We got one!” Fanone said he heard rioters shout. “Kill him with his own gun!”

    I know that the DC police have their problems, but in this case they honestly tried. I’m still impressed with how they tried to defend our democracy, with no fucking help from the Mango Mussolini or his crowd of minions known as the GOP

  28. davidc1 says

    @23 Yeah, Otto and his brother Gregor ,they put the Socialist into National Socialism .Gregor wasn’t as lucky as his brother who fled Germany when adolf got the keys to the Reichstag ,he was murdered during the Night Of The Long Knives ,in 1934 .
    @28 And his bestie rudi is no longer friends with him ,something about him wanting $20,000 a day to stay being his lawyer ,and donald saying on your bike .
    Never mind steve bannon is riding to the rescue .

  29. Allison says

    davidc1 @33

    And his bestie rudi is no longer friends with him ,something about him wanting $20,000 a day to stay being his lawyer , and donald saying on your bike .

    This is standard operating procedure for Trump (and always has been) — get someone to provide services, and then stiff them.

  30. PaulBC says

    Allison@34 The one case where I actually believe Scott Adams is when he says Trump is a master hypnotist. At least, it would explain a lot. All of these people thinking “Yeah, but he won’t stiff me. I have been so loyal to him.”

  31. Tethys says

    Cheeto is a standard issue abusive narcissist. He cannot deal with rejection in any form. As in any abusive relationship, the abusers become even more dangerous when their victims end the relationship.

    America is breaking up with her tyrant.

  32. stroppy says

    Apparently Trump’s lies and deceptions are considered a feature and not a bug by his acolytes. He’s a role model for other psychopaths and psychopath wannabes. Other true believers think he’s being canny and that his real messages are coming to them through morse code or whatever.

    Sure, some sleepy heads are waking up to what’s going on, but it tend to think that they’re not necessarily supporters so much as your garden variety It-Can’t-Happen-Here types. One scenario I see going forward is not Trump or a charismatic replacement, though that’s possible, but the Trump movement, which might be forced underground but not extinguished. After all, this cold civil war is just a morphed extension of a war that supposedly ended over 150 years ago. Plus some very bad, pernicious precedents have been set especially in the last four years, not to mention sabotage of the system and mine fields set for the next administration.

  33. KG says


    I agree that the USA isn’t Weimar Germany, and Fascism 2.0 isn’t identical to the original, but if Trump had won, he’d have had another four years to destroy what there is of American democracy – and after the last two months, no-one can be in any honest doubt that that’s what he and the Republican Party would like to do. And let’s remember the combined margin for Biden in Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin was 42918 votes. If Trump had got just over that many more in the right places, or Biden the same amount fewer, or just over half had gone from Biden to Trump, Trump would have had 269 electoral college votes, the decision would have gone to the House, and they would have chosen Trump. So the USA has had an extremely narrow escape from fascist dictatorship – and it is likely to be only a brief reprieve, without political action at all levels to defeat fascism.

  34. PaulBC says


    So the USA has had an extremely narrow escape from fascist dictatorship

    Well, yeah. I agree with this, as I have commented elsewhere. Trump is bad enough having been resoundingly rejected at the polls. If he’d actually won (even by Bush v. Gore margins), he would have taken it as a mandate for autocratic power. This was my main fear ahead of the election. Things could still be very bad, but there’s a lot more cognitive dissonance for his supporters to deal with.

  35. PaulBC says


    Plus some very bad, pernicious precedents have been set especially in the last four years

    For a couple of years, I’ve been saying that there needs to be a resolution that no exercise of presidential power under Trump can be taken as a precedent. (Sadly, my words don’t carry as much weight as former AG Fred Flintstone’s claims of presidential power.) If the US makes it through this crisis, there needs to be a massive postmortem to identity every alleged “loophole” in the constitution and make sure this doesn’t happen again. Unfortunately, anything like that would be hijacked by the people it’s supposed to defend against, so if there’s a good solution I don’t see it.

  36. vucodlak says

    @ Duckbilled Platypus, #1

    What do they have against teachers?

    I suspect it comes down to:
    1.) A large majority of teachers in the US, particularly at elementary school levels, are women…
    2.) …who told them what to do…
    3.) …and that’s it. Nothing pisses off Nazis/fascists more than a woman telling them what to do. Even decades later, they’re still stewing about it.

  37. raven says

    Horned, shirtless Capitol rioter wants pardon from Trump
    by: Nexstar Media Wire
    Posted: Jan 15, 2021 / 11:18 AM EST / Updated: Jan 15, 2021 / 11:18 AM EST

    (NEXSTAR) — The horned and shirtless rioter seen leading a crowd inside the U.S. Capitol during last week’s insurrection is now asking to be pardoned by President Donald Trump, according to a report from Phoenix’s ABC 15.

    ‘Strong evidence’ suggests Capitol rioters intended to ‘capture and assassinate’ officials, US prosecutors say

    Well, duh. No kidding.

    The FBI is looking for 200 people so far and has already arrested 100.
    They are all hoping and expecting that Trump will pardon them.
    It’s the only way they are going to escape justice since they extensively documented their crimes online.

  38. raven says

    In their filing, Arizona prosecutors say Chansley then entered the Senate chamber with a group of about 25 rioters, posed for pictures at the dais where Vice President Mike Pence had been minutes before, and left a note that read, “It’s only a matter of time. Justice is coming.”

    The following day, prosecutors say Chansley called the FBI Washington field office, admitted his involvement and described Pence as a “child-trafficking traitor,” …

    Shaman guy Chansley was making both verbal and written threats against congresspeople and VP Pence.
    He was also openly carrying a deadly weapon. His “flagpole” was also a spear with a large shiny steel spear point at the end of it. It was easily capable of killing anyone on the sharp end of it.

    Now of course, his mom is busy explaining how he is a delicate little snowflake of a child. (I can’t roll my eyes enough at that.)

  39. Tethys says

    The excerpt from Otto Strasser quoted at 23 bears multiple readings. Cult followings come into existence around charismatic leaders because they are highly skilled at manipulating people. It’s what they do best. I agree that we came very close to having members of congress assassinated by magas while live streaming themselves.
    Now I can only hope that our criminal branches manage to use the full force of law on every person who participated, and there are real consequences and meaningful reform.

    Imagine being the head of the FBI right now. How can they do their job properly if the cause of the insurrection can fire the agency head?
    How do you proceed when members of congress and police agencies are among those attempting insurrection?

    It’s been reported that some GOP members are voting no because they are in fear of their base! I’ve no sympathy for their justified fears, only anger that they are too cowardly to do their damn job, and act to immediately remove him.
    Thankfully we have people who cannot be fired stepping up to insure that he will go. Hopefully cutting off the head will kill the magamonster.
    It will go far to deprogram the cult. Sadly there is no way to erase fascism completely.

  40. wzrd1 says

    I saw the same capitol building full of Guard that everyone else saw.
    But, as a retired soldier and former National Guard member, I saw the correct number of carbines, but nary a hint of ammunition for those carbines. The NG doesn’t keep ammunition at their armories, that stays on the base ammunition supply point. Once someone forms an ammo detail and picks up the ammunition, it’d have to loaded into magazines for issue and use.

    As for possible actions by troublemakers, there’s tons of chatter about state capitol antics, likely to be noisemakers. I’m more concerned with a few “true believers” engaging, willing to trade their own lives for their target.
    I’m not especially concerned about the Guard, as soldiers are trained to follow orders and anyone presenting a threat, even one of their own would be swiftly neutralized.

  41. unclefrogy says

    it is clear that agent orange is heading for legal trouble at least in the state of New York. he will also have to answer to the Impeachment starting some time next week or so. With his finally publicly stating that he is not going to pay Giuliani, I never thought that he would get payed. Add his famous debt problem to the list as well, what lawyer would be willing to work for him for free with his now diminished reputation and prospects. He needs good ones not dime store bozos if he wants to get off. He knows what he has done I think it adds to his desperation, he is going down in flames and will loose in court like he usually does.
    There are still some petty crap he can pull “he still has one tooth”

  42. blf says

    @48, “his [hair furor] finally publicly stating that he is not going to pay Giuliani”…

    Eh? Can you please provide a citation for the emboldened part of that claim?
    There are numerous reports stiffing Giuliani is his claimed intent, but none (that I can find) he has publicly said so

  43. captainjack says

    Some of the Trumpy action is supposed to be on Sunday. A better thing on Sunday is:

    Major Biden’s Indoguration Party
    Sunday, January 17 at 3pm EST

    It’s a Humane Association fund raiser on Zoom. Can you imagine Trump having a pet?

  44. Pierce R. Butler says

    PaulBC @ # 42: If the US makes it through this crisis, there needs to be a massive postmortem to identity every alleged “loophole” in the constitution and make sure this doesn’t happen again.

    That will happen right after the official National Soul Searching About Vietnam that we will get around to once we’ve finished with various distractions.

  45. unclefrogy says

    would you like to loan him money on the future payments he will get from that man?
    one of the benefits of that man being band from tweeting and other media is not hearing very much from him save a public appearances
    uncle frogy

  46. blf says

    @55, In this case, it’s perhaps a quibble, but I detest specific claims which cannot be supported. In this particular example, the claim seems unambiguous: Hair furor publicly stated he’s stiffing his pet. Main problem seems to be no such claim about publicly saying so is known (to me, at least). Hence the request for a citation (and, as I reminder, I searched before asking).

    It’s a simple request: Provide a citation for the claim he publicly stated he would not pay Giuliani.

    And YES, I concur hair furor is very probably trying to weasel out of paying hair furor. It seems to very very well fit with hair furor’s MO. What I am asking for is a citation to support the claim “his [hair furor] finally publicly stating that he is not going to pay Giuliani”.

  47. blf says

    @56, fairly obvious correction (sorry!): I concur hair furor is very probably trying to weasel out of paying hair furor → I concur hair furor is very probably trying to weasel out of paying Giuliani.

    (Albeit the original typo would also perhaps fit hair furor’s MO ?)

  48. raven says

    Attorney for ‘QAnon shaman’ asks Trump to pardon rioters
    ‘He has an obligation to them’: Attorney for ‘QAnon shaman’ asks Trump to pardon rioters
    Jacob Chansley, a 33-year-old man from Phoenix, was one of the most recognizable perpetrators of the Capitol siege.
    By QUINT FORGEY 01/15/2021 08:52 AM EST

    The lawyer for the “QAnon shaman” who was part of the deadly siege of the Capitol last week publicly petitioned President Donald Trump on Thursday to pardon his client.

    In an interview on CNN, attorney Albert Watkins said his client, Jacob Chansley, “felt like he was answering the call of our president” when he stormed the nation’s seat of government last Wednesday during a riot that resulted in the deaths of at least five people.

    It turns out some of the US Capitol building attackers can count. To at least 5.
    That is how many days they have left to be pardoned by Trump.

    Expect a lot of whining, pleading, begging, and appeals to quid pro quo’s between now and January 20th. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are also a few bribes thrown in there somewhere.

  49. unclefrogy says

    like a guy from Oklahoma used to say I only know what I read in the papers.
    It has been reported from insiders that he is not going to pay “his lawyer” as far as I know he has hardly said much of anything publicly compared to what has been the norm until now. Was my comment an over statement maybe but from “the papers” not too far from reality such as it is.
    uncle frogy

  50. blf says

    @59, Waffle waffle waffle. Again, citation(s?) for “publicly stating that he is not going to pay Giuliani”. And if you have ever “read in the papers” that, you must be able to provide a citation.

  51. Ridana says

    Trump has instructed aides not to pay Giuliani’s legal fees, two officials said, and has demanded that he personally approve any reimbursements for the expenses Giuliani incurred while traveling on the president’s behalf to challenge election results in key states. They said Trump has privately expressed concern with some of Giuliani’s moves and did not appreciate a demand from Giuliani for $20,000 a day in fees for his work attempting to overturn the election.

    The president was offended by Mr. Giuliani’s request for $20,000 a day to represent him in the election fight, which Mr. Giuliani denied making but which was in writing, and told aides not to pay him at all, an adviser to Mr. Trump said, confirming a report by The Washington Post.

  52. John Morales says

    [blf, mate! unclefrogy is not best at precision, but IMO quite cluey and honest.
    “Was my comment an over statement maybe” is enough of a concession, even for me]

  53. blf says

    @61. Waffle waffle waffle. Again, citation(s?) for “publicly stating that he [hair furor] is not going to pay Giuliani”. And if you have ever “read in the papers” that, you must be able to provide a citation.

    To-date, all that has been supplied is vague search results(@61), but nothing to specifically support the unambiguous claim “publicly stating that he is not going to pay Giuliani”.

    STOP. There is simply evidence of supporting such a claim.

    Initially, I presumed it was a simple mistake: A confusion between reports-of and an actual public statement. However, I am NOW finding it very difficult to sustain that presumption.

    Just STOP, or else provide a clear citation.

  54. John Morales says

    Your ignorance is noted, blf. It’s an Aussie expression, and a very versatile one at that.

    (Have I distracted you from your pernickety picking? Leave that to the experts, mate)

  55. PaulBC says

    Thankfully, we in the States made it through the Aussie scare of the 80s mostly unscathed. I did have a friend in college who loved quoting Crocodile Dundee “That’s not a knife… THAT’s a knife.” at nearly every opportunity. For all I know, he is still doing it now.

    Then there was the Foster’s “Australian for beer” ad campaign. There are still businesses like Outback Steakhouse, but I think it mostly settled down by the mid-90s. I sometimes wonder what happened.

  56. Rob Grigjanis says

    chigau @68: I think that’s ‘persnickety’. Yes, I’m being persnickety. And I think John was implying he’s the expert.

    But he’s right about ‘mate’. Even Brits use it casually. I often say ‘thanks mate’ to delivery men.

  57. Tethys says

    I’ve watched so many news reports in the last week, each reporting some new detail that seemed preposterous yet is true. The various news channels are blending together a bit at this point.

    waves to Chigau

  58. PaulBC says


    The various news channels are blending together a bit at this point.

    Blending, huh, what’s next? Some kind of shared understanding of reality? (Not likely.)

  59. Tethys says

    More that they all have similar sets (CBS, ABC, CNN) and are reporting the same breaking events.

    I have noted that YouTube has removed some of the objectionable content that kept coming up in my suggested video list for the last few months.

  60. Rich Woods says

    @Rob Grigjanis #70:

    But he’s right about ‘mate’. Even Brits use it casually.

    ‘Even’?! Who do you think Australians inherited it from?

  61. Rob Grigjanis says

    Rich Woods @74: Right. Like New Zealand inherited rugby union from the Brits. Or Brazil inherited association football from them.

  62. PaulBC says

    I wonder why we don’t say “mate” in the US, except in compounds like roommate, classmate, playmate, or first mate on a ship. Maybe it caught on after the split.

    My favorite British-American distinction is probably use of the word “reckon.” In the US, it is Southern (still used I think) and makes you sound like a hick. I don’t think it carries anything like that in British English.

  63. Jazzlet says

    Rob Grigjanis @70
    I don’t think it is, and the OED concise agrees that “pernickety” is the correct word to use in the way it is being used here, doesn’t list “persnickety” at all. ;-)

  64. Rob Grigjanis says

    Jazzlet @80: Yeah, it appears the ‘s’ was a 19th century American addition. I tand corrected!

  65. Tethys says

    Paul @79

    I wonder why we don’t say mate in the US, except in compounds..

    There is also the verb checkmate, which according to Merriam-Webster has an entirely different etymology than the west germanic to Middle English noun.
    sigh, why autocorrect? Why must you capitalize so randomly!?

    I suspect the modern usage might have something to do with the revolutionary war. Americans still drink more coffee than tea.

    I don’t know if modern French people use the equivalent ‘Mon frére’ but it amuses me to translate that phrase into modern English idiom.
    My bro’!