Protesters: think about what you are protesting for

The president is inciting people to protest governors who enforce serious restrictions to limit the spread of the pandemic. So now we’re getting parades of people waving Confederate flags and carrying rifles, calling for governors to be locked up and all constraints removed. So there they are, gathering in large groups, providing a lovely feeding ground for the voracious virus — acres and acres of respiratory epithelia to grow on.

Now they’re marching in Minnesota.

At noon, dozens of protesters could be seen lining the street in front of the governor’s residence, holding signs and American flags.

“I’m a small business owner and my business was shut down forcibly on the 17th of March, and I have yet to see any unemployment, any money come through from the government,” one protester told WCCO. “I’m sitting here waiting here without a paycheck, with no definitive answer on when I will be returning to work, and I don’t think that’s right.”

I think the government should be providing money to help carry him through this time, but waving guns and flags and violating stay-at-home orders is counterproductive. He is doing harm to others out of frustration with this situation — and all of us others are just as frustrated, and would rather not confound our difficulties with an infectious disease.

We’ve been through this before. This is an enlightening graph from 1918, when, in the face of the flu epidemic Denver first imposed restrictions that proved to be effective…so people demanded that they end, and the epidemic came roaring back.

This is what the protesters need to know. If the interventions are removed, people will die. Maybe they will die, or people they love will die. The pandemic will smolder longer and overtax our health care system. Your small business may be important, but is it that important? I know the system drills into everyone that your value is tied directly to your work and your income, but we need to get away from that terrible paradigm to one where your worth is intrinsic, it’s your life and you should be living it.


  1. grandolddeity says

    We hate the nanny state, until we need it, until we don’t need it anymore, until we need it again.

    What ever happened to the rainy day fund? This same bunch whines about self-reliance.

  2. johnson catman says

    I think the problem is that these protesters don’t have the intelligence to actually think about the situation. They are simply reacting because The Orange Toddler-Tyrant has poked them with a stick. They do not have the capacity to see more than five minutes out. The ending of their inconvenience is all that they care about, and if 2% of the population of the US has to die so that they can go to a bar, so be it. Fucking idiots. The comparison of that photo to a zombie attack is very apropos.

  3. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    If all they were doing was killing themselves off, I’d sit by and munch popcorn…and I don’t even like popcorn.

  4. Snarki, child of Loki says

    “What ever happened to the rainy day fund?”

    They “give that money back to the people”. Well, some people. You know: millionaires.

    Then the next crisis, they have to cut all that stuff that helps non-millionaires weather the crisis.

    If I’m ever on a jury trying someone that put down Teatard/Trumpkins, I’ll be sorely tempted to do a “that fncker needed killin'” jury nullification, just saying.

  5. JoeBuddha says

    That picture looks exactly how I picture the Zombie Apocalypse. Right down to the expressions on their faces.

  6. raven says

    To open up the economy again or keep it locked down, right now, is a false dichotomy.
    Your two choices actually are.

    .1. A locked down recessionary economy during a viral pandemic.
    .2. An opened up economy that is still in recession anyway, with a pile of dead bodies.

    If there is a pandemic with people getting sick and dying, people aren’t going to be going out and going places anyway.
    Most people can run the calculations and most people…don’t want to die for a cheeseburger and beer or a bag of lawn fertilizer.

    Even in the few states that have GOP governors who didn’t issue lock down orders, those states are mostly locked down anyway.
    People know what to do, they don’t want to die, and they voluntarily keep social distance.

  7. says

    Just found out there’s a group here in Oregon planning a May 1st protest to “reopen” the state. These are the same assholes who counter protested and started a riot after last year’s Mayday demonstration. The same Mayday demonstration I participate in every year. Not only are they protesting against responsible government action, they are stealing one of my favorite days.

    I’m pissed now. Pissed off and powerless. I do have one idea. Mayday, is world workers day. What about making Mayday “Essential workers day”, maybe just this year alone. All the praise from the politicians and media is starting to wear thin for me (I’m an essential worker), so maybe we need to get a day off.

  8. raven says

    So there they are, gathering in large groups, providing a lovely feeding ground for the voracious virus — acres and acres of respiratory epithelia to grow on.

    There is a good chance some of those people will get Covid-19 and get sick and die.

    It has been happening routinely everywhere.
    Two fundie xian ministers who proclaimed that magic called jesus would protect them, shortly afterwards got Covid-19 and died.
    Some woman in Texas who claimed guns and jesus would protect her, is now dead of Covid-19 pneumonia.

  9. Chris Capoccia says

    it’s even worse than that because in most places, we’re not even at the peak, let alone halfway down in the valley

  10. davidc1 says

    @9 wrote” Some woman in Texas who claimed guns and jesus would protect her, is now dead of Covid-19 pneumonia.”
    Is that true ? Over here in GB even the Queen (god bless her ) has been doing her bit ,she is going without the gun salute that
    marks her birthday .

  11. grandolddeity says

    Sorry, Snarki @5, I meant personal rainy day fund. Job one is working to not have to live paycheck to paycheck to the extent one can. Common advice is to have three months living expense in the bank, well within practical/disciplined reach of a typically well-equipped outdoorsman or skilled gamer, for example. In my experience, people almost always have the resources for the things they truly want.

  12. raven says

    Texas woman on twitter (not named because she has been ridiculed enough by now.)

    Wake up!!! This is what the beginning of socialism looks like!
    They are leading with fear causing you to panic like sheep.

    … You don’t need hand sanitizer, toilet paper, and Lysol.
    You need common sense, a sense of direction, faith, a will to fight, and of course guns!

    Now wash your hands and live the life they don’t want you to have!

    Two weeks later she was dead from Covid-19 viral pneumonia.

  13. komarov says

    So pepole are waving confederate flags against states rights, i.e. the right for states to do their own thing to get the pandemic under control because the federal government does nothing? Riiight. It’s probably just my shaky grasp of US history/historic excuses that makes this seem odd and slightly ironic.

    But even without that lovely Denver counter-example they’re shooting themselves in the proverbial foot. By encouraging the spread of the disease in the way they do, they’re necessitating harsher measures for longer. Other countries like China or Germany, where things seem to be headed in the right direction, are carefully loosening some restrictions. They would not be doing that if the numbers were going the other way, and certainly not if there were mobs running around shouting, spraying germy spittle everywhere in the process. Ew.
    Basically the only sensible reaction to these protests is, “Great, now we have to wait two weeks to see what that did to the infection and then reconsider things. Thank you, folks, let’s reset the countdown.”
    I just hope the US isn’t setting a bad example for other countries. People everywhere are getting fed up with the restrictions and might get ideas about starting their own protests. I suppose the gun-waving is a good thing: Many people outside the US would probably see that and realise it’s not a good or even reasonable idea. Gun-waving is (I hope) generally frowned upon in most societies.

    “The president is inciting people to protest governors who enforce serious restrictions to limit the spread of the pandemic”

    Inciting protests and/or undermining the rule of law – shouldn’t that be an impeachable offence for a POTUS? I know it woudn’t matter if it was* but am curious nonetheless. (I’d also be partial to a charge of treason.)

    *Lesson learnt: it’s all a joke with a punchline dragged out for months that simply isn’t worth the wait.

  14. wzrd1 says

    “I’m a small business owner and my business was shut down forcibly on the 17th of March…”

    So, someone came in with tons of guns, beat him and his employees up and barricaded his business? Forcibly has a meaning, “close down for public safety” isn’t force and fining someone isn’t force. Look at Hitler and Stalin or even Kent State for force that was unjustified in the extreme.

    That said and being former National Guard, trained repeatedly in using a maximum force escalation with unarmed or stick and stone armed protestors of the use of a mattock handle, I consider anyone coming armed to a protest to not being peaceably assembled.
    Protocol for something like that remains mattock handles, but backed with a heavily armed detail and probably crew served weapons.
    An armed riot is a danger to the entire community, including any peaceful protestors that just want to get out of dodge.
    So, these chuckleheads are playing with dynamite that’s sitting on a lit stove. I sincerely doubt many will be feeling empathy for someone with a weapon of war in his hands, unlike the unarmed and peaceful kids at Kent State – a nightmare every member of the National Guard has after crowd control training.

    I remember some book I read, oh so long ago, one saying in it was, “Live by the sword, die by the sword”.
    So, if I ever join a protest, I’ll bring two arms, my left and my right. Guns belong on a range or in hunting season, where hunting is allowed.
    Well, except for grease guns, no clue where they belong, as I’ve yet to find a grease point on a modern car… ;)

    @1 , grandolddeity, I’ve long been a firm believer in self-reliance, but I’m also big on neighbor aid and community aid, when things turn to shit, national aid. Self-reliance isn’t a man being an island, but a member of a community. Those same idiots that proclaim man to be an island also speak of older times, when a neighbor was ill and it was planting time, the entire community showed up to plant the crops or even bring them to harvest.
    That is what they’ve forgotten, ever so spoiled by not shitty times. The problem is, their actions will bring shittier times, like in 1918.
    In 1918, the pandemic was nearly under control, then WWI ended and public celebrations were more important than social distancing. The pandemic returned with a vengeance, which did cause the griped about economic harm in spades – far worse than had they simply continued the social isolation until the pandemic finally burned out. 635000 died out of 100000000, which basically meant, everyone knew someone who died.
    That is what they’re, unrealizing begging for.

    Maybe a better way to defuse the idiocy is to bring a shovel per protestor and hand them out. Informing them, those are to bury their loved ones, friends and neighbors, should they get what they want and by extension, what they’ll richly deserve.
    With large images of the mass graves from 1918 behind the shovel distributors.

  15. says

    It does seem that the US government and/or state governments have been slow to provide help for people affected by the shutdowns. But that’s no reason to stop the shutdowns, they should be protesting for effective help.

    (In the UK, companies can ‘furlough’ workers for (currently) up to three months and the government will pay the companies 80% of the worker’s wages, up to £2,500/month. Self-employed can get similar help. Smaller companies can get grants, and bigger companies can get government-backed loans. There are deferrals of VAT payments, and business rates have been set to zero for this year. There are people who have been missed, but the gaps are being filled. The banks have been slow to approve loans, and the government is looking at how to speed that up. On the whole, they’re doing a very good job or making sure that when we can start re-opening businesses, the businesses will be there to reopen, and people will still have their jobs.)

  16. grandolddeity says

    wzrd1 @16, I don’t disagree, but I might call that job two is all.

    “Should the cabin lose pressure, oxygen masks will drop from the overhead area. Please place the mask over your own mouth and nose before assisting others.”

  17. lb says

    My governor is the only governor in the US who is a medical doctor. I trust he knows his shit. I own a small business–five of us total. One is in quarantine because she is immune compromised, so it’s four of us coming in and she works as best she can from home. We’re using common sense, being careful and making arrangements with clients to wear gloves and masks. So far, so good. I get why these people are protesting, but it’s a small, vocal group. Nobody here is really paying any attention to them. If asshole in the White House wasn’t inciting them, they’d be at home.

  18. brucegee1962 says

    I’m going to be the contrary one here and say that we ought to allow these people to do exactly what they want. We should even formalize it: each state ought to have a website where anyone who wants to go and sign their name will be expressly given permission to re-open a business, gather in groups of any size they want, and generally carry on life as normal with no penalty.

    Of course, I’m sure they won’t mind if that signup page contains a little bitty codicil at the bottom, stating that by signing the roster you agree that when you get sick with coronavirus, you will stay at least 100 yards away from any hospital, go die quietly at home, and make no claim whatsoever on using a ventilator that would be better served saving the life of somebody who doesn’t have shit for brains.

    Heck, this might be Democrats’ best chance of sweeping all the races in November. You can’t vote if you’re dead.

    They may not believe in evolution, but that doesn’t stop evolution from believing in them.

  19. unclefrogy says

    I know the system drills into everyone that your value is tied directly to your work and your income, but we need to get away from that terrible paradigm to one where your worth is intrinsic, it’s your life and you should be living it.

    there is depth in that it is a large part of what is wrong with society. this situation should not be having the conflict we are seeing. there is conflict running through much of this. a lot of it has its source in washington.
    uncle frogy

  20. says

    Cross posted from the Political Madness thread.

    Chris Hayes:

    At this point in the global pandemic, it should not be necessary for me to do what I’m about to do: To state the clear facts about how uniquely devastating and deadly this disease is.

    The charts/graphs that Chris Hayes presented are perfect for rebutting the “loud propaganda arm of the president’s supporters who are insistent on pumping people full of disinformation.” Hayes’ presentation was particularly effective in rebutting the comparisons to the flu, or to automobile accidents, etc.. I’ve been following the news and the facts quite closely, but even I was startled by the clear information that Hayes highlighted with good graphics.


    All of those protestors should be shown this segment from “All In.”

    The coronavirus is uniquely devastating and deadly. It is not heart attacks. It is not cancer. It is not the deadly swimming pools Dr. Phil mentioned.

    The video is 4:52 minutes long.

  21. says

    When Trump was asked about protestors potentially spreading the coronavirus, he replied:

    No, these are people expressing their view. I see where they are and I see the way they’re working. They seem to be very responsible people to me, but they’ve been treated a little bit rough.

    This is what Trump had tweeted earlier in reference to Virginia:

    LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!

    From Laurence Tribe:

    In context, this was close to direct incitement to armed overthrow of the Government of Virginia. That’s a serious crime in that state. The OLC opinion barring federal indictment of a sitting president isn’t binding on Virginia prosecutors. Just food for thought.

  22. unclefrogy says

    those advocating to open up the economy because it will only be a small percent of the people who will die besides being really dumb about percent and actual numbers of people and what that effect would be and greedy on top of that. They do not think that they could be in that group who get sick and die, it is others who will. I would say that they would feel different if it was their loved ones but I doubt it would effect them for long anyway.
    uncle frogy

  23. says

    “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
    – George Santayana

    “Those who deny and rewrite history are trying to repeat it.”
    – Me

  24. cvoinescu says

    What everyone seems to ignore is that not only do 1% die, but some 3-5% of those who survive are left with severe permanent lung damage (heart and kidney damage are also not uncommon). They may not have died now, but a lot of them will next time they catch the flu. Plus their lives might be painful and miserable, they would have to do through expensive rehabilitation, and they may not be able to return to work for a long time, if ever.

  25. says

    Interestingly, I saw a photo of one female protester carrying a sign that said: “My body, my choice to work”. I wonder if she would be equally willing to march with that same sign but minus the last two words. How’s that go again, “rules for thee but not for me”…

  26. robro says

    brucegee1962 @ #21 — I assume you’re aware of this but the problem with your plan is that the people who sign the waiver won’t know when they are infected, so they’ll be spreading it around wherever they go. And, when they get sick, they will go to hospitals which are already overwhelmed.

    Chris Capoccia @ #18 — On the Karen Kolb Sehlke story, I did google it and got a lot of repetitive treatments of the case. However, this Snopes article has interesting analysis of the case. First, according to the story she did not write the “COVID-19 is a hoax” screed herself, though she (or someone) shared it on her FaceBook page soon after it appeared. It’s not clear who wrote it. She is dead and apparently did test positive of COVID-19, but the cause of her death isn’t clear. That might be the result of family suppressing the info that she died of COVID-19 complications. This story was apparently brought up in a Pharyngula thread recently, and I did not track that down, so my apologies if I’m covering well-trodden grounds.

  27. garnetstar says

    And now Florida, which is a target-rich (older people) area and already rather a hot spot, has opened beaches, and crowds thronged onto them.

    This may be an extinction event for Florida Man.

  28. robro says

    garnetstar @ #30 — I saw that, and a picture of the crowds parading along Jacksonville Beach. My 91yo mom and my brother and his family live in Jacksonville. My brother, sister-in-law, and nephew are just arrogant enough to think the pandemic is a hoax, their safe, and have every right to crowd together. In fact, I’ve seen some pictures in recent weeks of family event which show how little they are concerned with keeping separation. Scary, particularly what they could bring into my mom’s house.

  29. daverytier says

    think about what you are protesting for

    Error : unsupported function.
    Seriously. Those “people” have an appointment with natural selection. Just let them be, steer clear of them and tell everyone else to also shun them. And watch for a spike in new cases 10-12 days after the “protest”.

  30. daverytier says

    Scary, particularly what they could bring into my mom’s house.

    That’s just horrible. Any possibility of taking your mom to live with you temporarily, or preventing them from visiting her ( if she doesn’t live directly with them ) ?

  31. garnetstar says

    robro @31, I’m so sorry! I don’t know what can be done, I’m trying hard to keep my 89-yr-old father isolated too. If it’s family who poses the risk, they’re so difficult if they refuse to keep the elderly safe.

  32. brucegee1962 says

    brucegee1962 @ #21 — I assume you’re aware of this but the problem with your plan is that the people who sign the waiver won’t know when they are infected, so they’ll be spreading it around wherever they go. And, when they get sick, they will go to hospitals which are already overwhelmed

    Those who infect themselves due to willful stupidity are only a problem if they aren’t kept separate from everyone else. That was why my plan explicitly made them forfeit the right to go anywhere near a hospital once they got sick.
    What we need is some way to keep the knuckleheads separate from the rest of us. Maybe we should make a badge saying “Freedom-loving American” and advertise it to all those ignoring the stay-at-home warnings, so the rest of us can keep a 12-foot distance.

  33. aronymous says

    I see the protesters as a suicide squad. Send them in to protect Hair Fraudster. “They seem to like me”.

  34. numerobis says

    wzrd1: yes, forcibly closed. The people bringing fines and potentially boarding up the business if you resist definitely have guns, and the force of the state behind them.

    And thank goodness they do, otherwise some asshats would stay open!

    Now, it’s a lot easier to swallow when there’s the ability to keep your business alive during the quarantine. There aren’t protests against quarantine measures in Canada — there’s complaints that the promised aid is coming too slowly or it’s too confusing, but the few I’ve furloughed get sufficient benefits to keep them going fine (one asked for me to furlough her, to reduce stress), and the rest I can keep on full-time thanks to salary subsidies and a zero-interest loan.

  35. robro says

    daverytier @33 — Not a chance. I live in California and she wouldn’t fancy being so far from home. Also, she’s under treatment there for cancer so not a great time for her to travel.

  36. robro says

    brucegee1962 @35 — They would not accept a badge as it would be social stigmatism. Ironic isn’t it.

    You can’t effectively deny them access to healthcare either. If they collapse on the street EMTs will take them straight to ER because they don’t have time to check their waiver status…essentially the same problem with DNR directives.

    Besides you can’t have effective containment with partial isolation. One of the current problems is different policies between states and even communities within states. As I understand it, everyone’s safety is reduced.

    In any case they don’t want to open the economy just for themselves. They want everyone to go back to work, schools open, etc.

    Don’t get me wrong. I would happily let these idiots do themselves in if we could avoid collateral damage.

  37. Jazzlet says

    @ robro
    That’s really hard, sorry she’s not got more sensible family close by.

    Meanwhile in the UK we’ve been promised a huge delivery of PPE just after the advice on what to wear was relaxed from all over water proof to water resistant with waterproof aprons, but if it’s anything like the promises to ramp up to 100,000 tests a day we’ve been getting for the last month there’ll be nowt leaving staff with the choice of working unprotected or refusing to work. And who knows if the staff in care homes will get any of the promised bounty if it does turn up even though one care chain said half of it’s homes have COVID-19 cases.

  38. Walter Solomon says

    While it’s easy and even understandable to want to ridicule people like this I, personally, don’t have an appetite for it after losing my dear and only brother to this pandemic and having been tested positive along with my Mom for coronavirus.
    I can only hope these people and everyone who share their views — apparently there’s a protest planned for Annapolis — acquire some wisdom and realize that COVID-19 is extremely dangerous and human life is much more precious than anything they could possibly be missing during the shutdown.

  39. asclepias says

    There’s one of those planned here for Monday. My general reaction to these is ;natural selection’. I’m done trying to be nice or understanding.

  40. Akira MacKenzie says

    Jim’s @ 28:

    Ah, but that protester thinks that she is cleverly pointing out the “hypocrisy” of the Left. You are willing to let her have the choice to “murder an innocent baby,” but deny her the “Choice” to risk becoming infected and possibly infecting others. In their insane moral calculus, the former is a far, far, greater crime than the latter. Grandma or Uncle Steve should have accepted Jesus as their personal lord and savior by now, so what happens to them in the afterlife is their responsibility. But a poor, innocent baby who has never heard the word of God…?

  41. drew says

    If you’d like to be constructive, let them know what to do to be heard instead.
    Telling them to stay at home until they lose their homes isn’t really helping. They’re opting to take some small amount of control of their lives and risk quick death knowing the sure alternative is slow death if they just let life happen to them.
    If these were people in most other countries, protesting for the right to try to live in the face of a government that only allows that for rich people, I suspect you’d react differently.

  42. nomdeplume says

    America – an advanced country being driven insane by a combination of a mad King, Religion, and the first two Amendments to its Constitution.

  43. raven says

    They’re opting to take some small amount of control of their lives and risk quick death knowing the sure alternative is slow death if they just let life happen to them.

    False dichotomy mixed with gibberish.

    The choice isn’t between trying to overthrow the government or dying a slow death. (Slow death from what, watching too many Netflix movies and Reality TV.)
    No one is going to die from not being able to hang around in a bar, go in to a McDonalds rather than the drive in window, or hike in the park rather than lift weights in the gym.

    Most of these lockdowns started in mid-March. It is now mid-April. One month.
    They are talking about starting to remove them now to mid-May or into June.
    So they will last a few months at most.

    So just how are they “taking control of their lives” by waving an automatic military type rifle around in the state capital.
    They aren’t doing anything but looking like crazed idiots advocating for random murder of the rest of us by a newly emerging virus.
    Speaking of murder, a lot of these right wingnuts demonstrating are known Nazis and white supremacists. They aren’t risking slow death, they are openly hoping for the rapid death of much of the US population.

  44. says

    sez drew @45:

    If you’d like to be constructive, let them know what to do to be heard instead.

    The people who are doing these protests are ignoring brute facts about fun stuff like coronavirus and exponential growth and death rates and yada yada. Why, exactly, should they “be heard”? I mean, should people who want the freedom to throw acid-filled water balloons at random “be heard”? How about people who want the freedom to smoke in any and all locations they damn well please—should they “be heard”?

  45. DanDare says

    Where do these figures of 2% deaths come from? If you look at the records of deaths / total closed cases then most of the world is seeing 10% deaths and the US is seeing around 20%. And yes many more with permanent respiratory damage.

  46. stroppy says

    I’d be curious to know the impact of overwhelmed hospitals on non C-19 patients.

  47. flange says

    But if the small business owner gets money from the government, won’t he lose the incentive to work? That’s what they’ve been telling us for decades about welfare.

  48. stroppy says

    @45 Drew

    “…[something, something]… rich people …[something, something]…”

    You do realize that the “protesters” are doing the dirty work of oligarchs, don’t you?

  49. unclefrogy says

    I have no idea where Oz got that number nor what it is supposed to mean other then he is a dick.
    I would not count on any of those percent of deaths from covid19 until we can really count all who are or have been infected. It might be that there are a lot more infections that are a-symptomatic, on the Theodore Roosevelt 60% of those that tested positive had no symptoms. With that being true a lot more can get infected and spreed more easily leading to a low death rate but a very large body count.
    uncle frogy

  50. robro says

    Drew @ #45 — They’re not just risking their lives. They’re risks lots of peoples lives, if not with actual violence then through forcing the government to reduce the restrictions to soon and causing a surge of the virus. If they want to know what to do, instead of blaming “Democrat’s”…whatever that is…they could put pressure on Trump to get his government’s act together, get those PPEs to the places where they’re needed, get the testing in place, mobilize the military to assist, coordinate with manufacturer to make the things doctors need, corporate with the experts, et cetera. Help, for crying out loud.

  51. Saad says

    drew, #45

    They’re doing it because DONT TREAD ON ME SOSHALISM

    But go ahead, you can think we were all born yesterday and don’t know what this is about.

  52. chrislawson says


    The COVID 19 case fatality rate in the US is about 5%. I’m not sure where you heard your 20% figure, but even if you break down the data state-by-state, the worst is 7.5% in Michigan.

    Internationally it’s a different story. The worst hit is Algeria with a 15% case fatality rate. The best is Qatar with 0.15%.

    That CEBM link is fantastic if you want to know not just the figures, but what they mean and why they vary so much. It has a long (but clearly written) discussion about case-fatality rate as a statistic and the biases that push it up (not every case gets tested) and down (not everyone who will die has done so yet).

  53. jrkrideau says

    15 komarov
    I just hope the US isn’t setting a bad example for other countries.

    It has been doing that for quite some time now. I believe the rest of the world has been learning a lot. I doubt that one needs to worry about imitation.

  54. numerobis says

    chrislawson: the 20% is if you think you know better than epidemiologists, you take #dead / (#dead + #recovered) and you freak out.

    If you don’t think you know better than epidemiologists you read what they have to say, and they point out that you shouldn’t use that formula naively, and there’s a bunch of corrections to do to make sure the number we observe are the numbers than fit in the formula. Hence why no epidemiologist ever said the case fatality rate was 20%.

    In particular: The number recovered lags by a couple weeks the number of dead, so you’re comparing a percentage of people who got infected in the past two weeks and died to a percentage of people who got infected four weeks ago and lived, while the number of cases is growing exponentially.

    And then worse: the number of cases depends on how you define a case, and is normally well below the number of infections. And similarly with the number of deaths.

  55. Pierce R. Butler says

    jrkrideau @ # 58: I doubt that one needs to worry about imitation.

    Unless one lives in or near Brazil. Or Mexico. Or Belarus. Or Russia. Or …

  56. katahdin says

    Raven wrote “ Speaking of murder, a lot of these right wingnuts demonstrating are known Nazis and white supremacists. They aren’t risking slow death, they are openly hoping for the rapid death of much of the US population.”

    By selectively infecting people of color without getting sick themselves? What are you saying?

  57. fishy says

    Never, never, ever vote for a Republican!
    I work in a factory. I’ll call it The Incubator. If I get sick I’m hoping my anger will keep me alive long enough to elect the status quo Joe.

  58. raven says

    By selectively infecting people of color without getting sick themselves? What are you saying?

    They aren’t that bright.

    They would settle for the usual, concentration camps and gas chambers.
    Calling some of these guys Nazis isn’t just an insult.
    They really are genocidal maniac Nazis and neo Nazis.

  59. microraptor says

    Well, astroturfing is so common among right-wing protests that it’s hardly a surprise. It’s why they’re so quick to claim that George Soros of being behind every leftwing protest (well, that and anti-Semitism).

  60. komarov says

    Re: jrkrideau (#58):

    Quite true, unfortunately. I almost specified a bad example regarding this particular crisis but then decided against it. My mistake.

  61. daverytier says

    I believe the rest of the world has been learning a lot. I doubt that one needs to worry about imitation.

    You couldn’t be farther from the truth.
    The forces that brought trump are active in each country around the globe. In some countries they are winning. And trump and trumpism is a great source of inspiration and motivation for them.

  62. wzrd1 says

    @katahdin, 61, minorities are preferentially targeted by any epidemic, per the St Louis Fed report on the 1918 Influenza Pandemic.
    Page 21, to be precise, discussing the 90% without health care coverage.

    As for those wondering the 20% figure, likely it was a crossed statistic in someone’s mind, that’s the ventilator survival rate for COVID-19, 80% die currently. There has been some work suggesting prone patient positioning helps, but frankly, I suspect that’s a stop-gap, with likely minimal survival improvement (but, I seriously hope to be proved wrong).

    We had a protest, an exceptionally noisy one, in Harrisburg.

    Good news is, my diapers should be in today, so I’ll have something to make masks out of instead of infecting others. Masks became mandatory in all businesses in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as of 2000 EDT last night.
    The damned ibuprofen seems to have been backordered and we’re out. :/

  63. woodsong says

    PSA regarding homemade masks.

    My local hospital is organizing volunteer mask-making, and the coordinator sent me the specs and directions when I asked how I could help from home.

    Fabric: 400 thread count cotton or 150 count muslin, 2 layers. The source I found for 400 count cotton fabric is bedsheets.

    Standard medical masks are 7 inch square, with 3 pleats (1/2″ deep each), a piece of flexible wire across the nose for shaping (3″ soft-medium hardness wire wrap), and either two 6″ elastic cords around the ears or 2 34″ fabric strips for ties (sewn to the edges with a total of 4 7″ ties).

    Here’s a website on mask-making: LINK. The author isn’t related to the Cayuga Medical efforts, but the resulting mask will be as serviceable (and the Cayuga Med pattern isn’t already online for easy linking).

    Good luck to everyone out there!

  64. austriak727 says

    ¨”“I’m a small business owner…”
    I hope that he perceive that he has doing everything wrong in relation to humanity evolution and transcendency. This is a selfish social performance. Ok, he is approved by the current social system, he is considered altruist by the system, but the system is selfish…