I’m considering dropping in on some creationists speaking at the Twin Cities campus next week.
via Kele Cable
Dave and Mary Jo Nutting have been to Minnesota before, but I didn’t bother going — but I wasn’t on sabbatical back then. The Alpha Omega Institute is a rather nutty organization, so maybe I should scribble up some notes on them.
What do you think? I’m on the fence, so I’ll let the comments decide. Also, would any of my Twin Cities peeps want to make an evening of it?
So happens I JUST left the Twin Cities (well, it was 25 years ago, but it seems like yesterday), otherwise I’d be all up for that. You will not, of course, change their minds. But I think you knew that already :)
If you’re going to be there October 5, let me recommend:
October 5, 2018, 275 Nicholson Hall
“Epigenetics is 76 years old, so why are you just now hearing about it?”
Erik Peterson History, University of Alabama
Co-sponsored by the Program in History of Science, Technology, and Medicine
From my perspective here in Oz, creationism is cooked (kook3d, too)
Not that doing it for your (and our) amusement is a bad thing, but.
Go with your instincts, is my opinion.
I am always surprised at these creationists with degrees in biology. How?
As to you going? The “random chance” sub-heading would be like a red rag to a bull to me. Take your sword and go for it PZ.
I wouldn’t go, it would play havoc with my blood pressure. But I’d read your post about it if you decide to go.
Re nomdeplume @ #4…
They parrot back on tests what the instructor said in class. The don’t actually learn any biology (or any other science, either). Go over to The Panda’s Thumb and read what Mike Elizinga has to say about creationists knowledge of math and physics.
“I am always surprised at these creationists with degrees in biology. How?”
The Nutters[sic] got their degrees are from the ICR, in other words they are completely worthless. The ICR even “teaches” a discipline called “creation science apologetics”, so they are up there with the time cube guy. Apologetics, along with theology, was expelled from science some four centuries ago.
“are from” ==> “from”.
I would encourage you to go so we have a record of their answers to your inconvenient questions.
There’s only one real question regarding whether or not to go: would you enjoy it, or would you walk out of the room feeling angry and annoyed?
If it’s something you’d find amusing, by all means, go for it. But life’s too short to pointlessly attend things like this if you’re not going to be getting any pleasure out of it.
Watch out, they’ll Gish Gallop their way around you, throw The Book at you and claim it as a victory. Not worth a thinking person’s time, this stuff.
1) create a bingo card using talk.origins faq numbers
2) attend with talk.origins faq printout
3) play bingo, using talk.origins
Maybe more than one card, if anyone else wants to play along?
How DARE they use an image of my favorite prehistoric animal for their propaganda! I’d horse whip those Bible-Humpers if I had a horse!
Does anybody know where those MS degrees came from? I can’t find much about them on the tubes, and the AOI website doesn’t mention their degrees or where they came from.
While you’re trying to decide whether to go poke them or not, I think I’ll be complaining to Coca Cola for sponsoring lies and misinformation like this. Not that that’s not part of their corporate stock in trade, but they might like to try to protect their public image by not lending their support to crap like this if they get some negative feedback.
Robro, clickety-click.
“Alpha-Omega Institute (AOI) is a Christian young Earth creationist institution founded by Institute for Creation Research Graduate School alumni Dave and Mary Jo Nutting. Dave Nutting earned a Master of Science in Geology and Mary Jo Nutting held a Master of Science in Biology from the ICR Graduate School; unlike the Institute for Creation Research the Alpha-Omega Institute does not claim to be a research organization.”
(https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alpha-Omega_Institute)
Go there and shine a bright light on their foolishness. Otherwise they reach people unopposed who fall high on the bullshit acceptance scale.
oh John @16, that is so sad! But more seriously, and rhetorically, is there no regulation in America about the nature of degrees and who can claim what? To the average member of the public a “Masters Degree” would sound impressive.
nomdeplume, I’d have to research, but I know there are diploma mills out there.
I might start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Creation_Research#School_and_accreditation
But yes, if the poster touted their degrees and their source, I suspect the average person might get a different impression.
Master of Creation Science in Biology just doesn’t have the same cachet. :)
Personally I think it’s a waste of your time and energy. You’re not going to hear anything new.
Same way my geophysicist friend who works at a major oil company has, over the years, encountered numerous Saudis, all with “very good” petroleum exploration geophysics backgrounds,…
… who don’t believe in evolution.
PZ: I’m very much in favor of you going. I don’t know if my favoring you listening to this lecture will make you actually more or less likely to go, but it is my opinion.
I’d be tempted to go (curse you Atlantic Ocean!), but I’d go armed with several hip flasks full of “medicinal” alcohol and make some kind of drinking game out of it. Drink whenever something they vomit forth some “evidence” that has already been refuted a thousand times. One suspects that it would be a very short night however.
My question: Why?
1) There will be no new arguments presented–just the same ol’ logical fallacies and bullshit.
2) The attendees will be impervious to logic and evidence.
3) It will raise your blood pressure and confirm your misanthropy.
I am all for engaging with people of diverse opinions. However, these people are idiots…and not even useful idiots. Appropriate responses: avoiding them or laughing in their face.
I bet there is a big photo of you posted up at the entrance .I also bet it says ,
“Do not let this person inside ,he is a known trouble maker “
I like the way the Archaeopteryx is posed to hide its distinctly non-bird-like tail.
Wrath Panda
‘Drink whenever something they vomit forth some “evidence”’
You want to kill PZ?!?!?!?
On a rare serious note from me: it’s not worth going, even with a whole bunch of PZers.
Idiots will be idiots so let them be; go visit your spiders instead, much more fun and way more intelligent company.
Oh, david c1#26 makes an excellent point: you could very well be in danger of being thrown out.
So, obviously, you should go.
richardelguru @ 28:
Want? No. He’s is however freely and of his own volition breeding an army of eight-legged little bastards in his evil laboratory. For the good of humanity (or a certain part of humanity at least, ie me), it must be done before they break free of their containment and we wind up with Eight Legged Freaks shenanigans happening in small town Minnesota.
Being on sabbatical must be very boring.
It’s not worth the extra CO2 you’d spew into the atmosphere.
From the Talk Origins archives about where Lucy’s knee was:
I’m guessing he’s still repeating it, but maybe P.Z. can verify it for us.
Coca-Cola? WTF?
“Debunking” evolution doesn’t support an alternative theory. The best way to debunk evolution would be a better theory. What are these guys offering, “god did it!”?
Do you expect to hear something hat you haven’t heard before?
Note the sign doesn’t say debunking evolution. It says debunking the agenda of evolution.
Didn’t know natural processes had an agenda, but then again, I’m not a former evolutionist.
Yes. One of the small joys of attending these things is that I’m always surprised with some new nugget of stupidity.
People seem to have the wrong idea about my intent. I wouldn’t go to debate these loons, or to convert the audience — I would quietly sit in the back with a notebook and write down their foolishness. It might turn into a blog post, at best.
It might turn into a blog post, at best.
Cat fud
(Gary Larson cartoon: search for it if it doesn’t immediately ring a bell.)
Attending all three, um, events would take four days.
Could the Twin Cities endure that much Pharyngulation?
Wrath Panda @ 31
Ah! Sorry I completely missed your point.Of course in PZ’s defence it could be worse—far, far worse; what if his new 8-legged breeding fetish was Sleipnirs!?!?!!!!!
The horse-shit alone would be insurmountable.
richardelguru @ 42
We’d all have lovely roses though!
TC native here- I’ll go if you go. Been a long time since I’ve been to one of these. I’ll maybe bring the wife, too- she loves these cult thingys.
If I do go, I’d probably hit up the Tuesday 7pm one on “biology”.
Anyone care to go & join me in a post mortem at one of the fine local Dinkytown eateries?
If I’m not helping my parents unpack (moving truck arrives between 1st and 9th) I’ll go. My wife will probably be interested as well.
Will you enjoy it? Then go.
Won’t you? Then go do something else, perhaps even something useful.
And in related news, Delusionist Hugh Ross will be speaking in Los Angeles a short walk from UCLA at the Westwood Hills Christian Church, 10808 Le Conte Ave, next Sunday 30 September at 10:15 a.m., about faith and science. There is a Q & A after.
When I first read this, my thought was that the surname Nutting is perfect. It can just go so many ways. Nutting for nutter, or just plain nut. You can also imagine it being nuttin’, as in ‘I’m gettin’ nuttin’ for Christmas,’ which is likely the only thing to be gotten from one of their lectures.
I see that the Maranatha Christian Fellowship is apparently responsible for this. I recall them from when I was at Minnesota (15 years ago now … woah). They were at one point picketing outside the Tate physics building, for a reason that I never learned, proclaiming that the Earth was 6,000 years old and shoving pocket New Testaments at passersby. I walked around them. They don’t seem to have changed their lines much since then.
I think you should speak up at some point if you attend, PZ. They’re a pair of charlatans with fake degrees who make tired, threadbare arguments even by creationist standards. You should make them squirm by demonstrating just how out of their depth they really are.