I guess Matt Lauer is full of regret
and is soul-searching
and wants to repair the damage
he has done, so he is weeping to the press.
There are no words to express my sorrow and regret for the pain I have caused others by words and actions,Lauer said in the statement released to the network.To the people I have hurt, I am truly sorry.Lauer said that some of what he has been accused of is untrue and mischaracterized but said,
there is enough truth in these stories to make me feel embarrassed and ashamed.
Translation: he’s sorry he was caught, can he get back on the gravy train now, please?
I’m sure he is embarrassed now. But the man had a trapping button installed in his desk — you came in to meet the boss, he’d press his secret button, and click, you were trapped in there with him and couldn’t get out until he let you. Not only is that creepy as hell, but required forethought and intent and planning and assistance to install. Was that one of the incidents he now claims was mischaracterized
?
Here’s the deal, Matt. You screwed yourself while trying to screw others, and no one feels any particular reason to redeem you. You were a dime-a-dozen talent who was paid $25 million a year, doing a job that any of thousands of women could have done better, with more class and insight than you ever demonstrated…and they wouldn’t be leaving a trail of slime everywhere they went. You’ve got millions of dollars socked away, I’m sure, and can just go sink out of sight, to everyone’s relief. Disappearing without a fuss would be in your interest, too, because all you’re doing now is reminding us that you have a fat bank account full of undeserved loot, and a trail of women whose careers were stunted by your selfish actions.
Vanish, little man. Your deflation has only just begun.
But what if he used to read to children and pet dogs?
Shouldn’t we mention that each time we talk about his sexual assaults/harassments and then get defensive when someone questions our motivation for doing so?
That button to lock the door was/is a very common ‘executive office’ feature. (my husband commented – “but all the GM exec offices had that feature.”) According to my husband, who was a GM facilities manager, they were installed so the exec could get a ‘sensitive information’ phone call and lock the door without getting up so he’s not disturbed during it. Lauer certainly misused it for sexual harassment, it’s very creepy, and the feature ought to be done away with, but ‘sexual harassment purposes’ is not why it was usually designed or installed. I think, if it was a feature of the offices in general for NBC execs, we need to acquit Lauer on ‘personally having it installed for nefarious purposes’ anyway.
Gwynnyd
and you believe him.
That’s nice.
Lauer read the news and had light-weight celebrity interview puff pieces and, once a year, made comments about baloons at the Macy’s parade. I can’t envision him being considered an “executive” in need of a door locking button for sensitive phone calls unless they were harassment calls to a woman he was stalking.
“Translation: he’s sorry he was caught, can he get back on the gravy train now, please?”
(shadenfreude chortle)
About high-visibility slimeballs: Meetoo has had a *very big* effect in Sweden. Celebrities in TV, theater, the legal profession and others have been forced to resign after an avalanche of accusations.
Now, two members of the Swedish Academy (who have a say in who gets the Nobel Prize of literature) have been asked to resign because they have supported and protected a well-known culture profile for up to twenty years, while he has been doing some very sleazy stuff.
(The names would mean little to Anglo-Saxon readers, but these are people who would pop up in newspaper stories every month, every week or every day)
Is it just me, or is it even more creepy that people consider this a common feature?
On Rachel Maddow, a woman from NBC explained that the button was installed by security in all offices of prominent figures at the network headquarters. It was there in case of a security problem at the offices.
But Lauer did not have it installed himself. So let’s get the facts straight.
Lauer misused it for a rather egregious purpose. OK, a slimy purpose, and Lauer deserves to be fired.
PZ:
I’m sure Mike Huben will be dashing to get here, to defend Lauer, as he spent an extraordinary amount of time defending a murderer, because murder shouldn’t x out all the good you may have done; and he was defending Keillor against the horrible commentariat tainting that poor man’s life.
Can these completely normal remote door locks be opened manually?
If not, how does this square with emergency evacuation procedures?
$25 million/yr? Hmmm… He could have put away one paycheck (I’ll assume a two week pay period) in a typical interest bearing savings account (I know, if you have that much you can probably get a better deal, but I’m trying to compare it to what other people have access to), and just from the interest on that account he could live at about twice the federal poverty level for a household of 5. Consider that he probably doesn’t have any mortgages or car payments, and he will have royalties coming in from books, TV shows, and Sharknado movies.
@9 Chigau, I have no idea. My office door is always open and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t even have a lock. But most locked doors can be opened from the inside? I checked a big box home store. They had more than 300 electronic door locks on the website.
chigau @ #9
Great question. Obviously not from outside, but what about from the inside? If the remote lock prevented someone from leaving the room that’s really creepy, essentially kidnapping, and a safety hazard in case of an emergency.
My office doesn’t have a door.
Maybe this feature should be more common.
PZ, you wrote:
(Bolding by me.)
But the article linked by you doesn’t say that, and I really doubt the door couldn’t be opened from the inside. The article says:
which is quite a different thing, which you are clearly mischaracterizing.
I don’t know if I feel at all reassured that these door locks are a common executive feature.
I sometimes have to do confidential things in my office — compose exams, do phone work with committees, etc. I really do just get up, walk a couple meters, lock the door, and sit back down. Sometimes I put a note on the door to say I’m occupied. It’s not that hard.
It sounds like it could be used as a trivial perk — “I’m too important to have to walk across my office before doing Important Business” — but it looks bad and has all kinds of potential for abuse by abusive personalities. Abusive personalities like…[name any high ranking guy].
Gwynnyd @ #2
Of course “sexual harassment” would never be the stated purpose for installing a remote lock on a facilities request form. Just as no businessman would ever say in a meeting or an email, “Let’s hire this candidate because she’s cute” or “Don’t hire her, she’s old,” but they do that all the time, and without even a “nudge, nudge, wink, wink.” Guys in these positions are smart enough to know they can’t overtly violate corporate HR rules but there are plenty of workarounds.
Gwyynyd@#2:
That button to lock the door was/is a very common ‘executive office’ feature.
Yeah, so’s an “open door” policy.
When I was CEO of a start-up my big corner office had glass walls. I’m just sayin’…
PS – no potted plants, either.
I don’t get that whole thing at all. Having once been a high school-aged boy, I would walk in there and immediately recognize the smell.
I worked in a place with an automatic lock. Magnetic. No way one could open the door from either side as long as the current was flowing. I suppose sufficient force would open it, but I never met anyone strong enough (some of us experimented).
There was a conventional lock which we used when no one was there.
Sad thing is, there is no “away”. They’re all still here. No matter how scummy these men are, unless we literally round them all up and imprison them (which many of them clearly deserve), they’re still among society. I mean they are EVERYWHERE.
What do we DO about that? It is practically impossible to actually punish them, if for no other reason than they have the actual numbers to go to actual war and WIN. The pragmatic reality is we probably will have to find some way of getting along with them, and yes, them apologizing and feeling deeply regretful is a first step towards that. It’s all coming to a head, and what I can say is it shouldn’t be on us to “find a way to forgive them”. It’s not the victim’s responsibility to do that. It’s just… the sad burden of the reality of the scale of it all. (That sentence was horribly structured.) So, we can’t literally cut them all out of our lives for good. I guess a path to redemption might be necessary, if for no reason other than a bunch of bitter vengeful accused men is not a good thing to be surrounded by. God this is depressing. I’m basically conceding based on Game of Thrones style brutal pragmatism, but right now I’m not exactly in an optimistic mood. I really do hope this isn’t just a flash in the pan moment, one where hollywood (or literally every other major facet of our society) can later claim “but we’re different now!” while just hiding the ones that managed to escape the last purge.
I’m rambling now. I guess what I’m saying is having reformed men on our side is probably a necessary component of victory. That said, what makes an apology seem genuine? Well, maybe if he had owned up to this and admitted it to the world BEFORE getting caught. Heck, let’s look at Al Franken. I would even be willing to think he’s sincere if, having been caught out once, he admitted that she wasn’t the only one right then and there, rather than having case after case come up later. Own up to all of it, right now, and that’s a big start. It feels disingenuous BECAUSE it’s after the fact.
But, you know? It’s a start that the default for the liberal minded hypocrites is to apologize rather than deny. That’s refreshing, and helpful. It means that the MRAs and such can’t claim it’s a witch hunt, because so many are just flat out admitting to it when it would be so very easy to just deny it all. I think we are at least at a point where those being accused pragmatically recognize that a denial just compounds things when the inevital evidence or flood of future complaints come forward. Here’s the sad pragmatism I’ve been wrestling with. We might have to have degrees of punishment and allow a path back into “good graces” JUST to keep this one small win. If admitting to it, to the one accused, results in the exact same punishment as hiding it, what possible motivation is there (other than basic decency, which we all know is not enough of a motivator to get powerful people to do the right thing when unchecked) for them to admit to it? They might just slide back into “deny deny deny” and this one small grip we have on uncovering the slimy underbelly of society for all to see is lost.
So, not for their sake but out of a pragmatic (and admittedly pessimistic) view of the situation, it may be in our best interest to allow this path back into “good graces”. It’s not right, it’s not just, but it may be necessary.
It also magically prevented his brain from knowing that this also meant people couldn’t easily walk out.
Really, to what length will people go? (Don’t answer, we have a full thread of it already)
A button that locks the door locks the door. I have not seen any evidence that it only locks the door from people trying to come in and not for people trying to get out.
Everything else is just your interpretation.
Mine too (not as CEO of a start-up, though), but it had a lockable door with a red light for “Locked, don’t disturb” and a green light for “Unlocked, please knock”. The door was normally open, but I had the phone changed to a cordless one primarily to make it easier to walk to the door and close it while having a phone talk (which were sometimes sensitive).
I was on the safety committee at my company for many years. Office doors (or lavatory doors, being a small outfit) could be locked to prevent people from coming in, but they had to open quickly and freely from the inside of case of emergency.
I do confess that I did wish I had a trapdoor in the floor. But it’d have a really big, indiscreet lever with a lock like the old railway shifters and a sign that read “shark pit.”
BTW, even if the door locking feature allowed the door to be opened from the inside, did the women who were trapped in there know that, or did they just hear the clicking of the lock and probably a comment how they’re all alone now?
@Caine
Your misrepresentations of me are typical of right wing scumbags. Cite me. Oh, and quit trolling.
mikehuben
I really don’t think you will be happy here at Pharyngula.
Why don’t you just go away?
@ #3 – chigau (違う)
I have no reason to disbelieve my husband’s explanation of why such door locks were installed. I am also *extremely* amused that you assume he must have had one and used it for nefarious purposes. No, on both counts. While were talking about it, I might as well assume that YOU would have abused such a lock if you had one.
Mike@26g
You first. Caine is a respected contributer. You aren’t. All you have been doing is being an asshole, the definition of a troll. Lose the attitude.
Trying and failing not to read between the lines too much on Ann Curry’s statement. I imagine NBC execs are feeling nervous that the next time she speaks she’ll implicate them directly rather than implicitly.
Gwynnyd #28
Interesting interpretation.
Have a nice day.
Mike, mike, mike, that’s not trolling.
Trolling would be me quoting your “read the thread” when asked to provide specific evidence in reply to you demanding specific evidence.
And it would be good trolling, biscuit.
Does anyone know if Sam Harris is publishing under a pen name now?
I know a lot of people with this type of door lock, in lawyer’s offices it is almost universal in large firms. They are so routine today, amongst people that handle trade secrets, that not having a remote door lock would be unusual and there are even more restrictive security tools that many people will never see. There is simply nothing exceptional about a high profile reporter having a remote door lock.
What hasn’t been reported, and would be suspicious, is if the remote door lock prevented egress from the room. All of the remote locks I have ever seen simply prevent someone from entering the room, not exiting. And an egress limiting lock would violate all sorts of fire code and building restrictions. You might see something like that in a SCIF or locked down safe room, but not an office. So far at least there is no reporting that this is the type of lock that Lauer had installed.
Ah, one of my favorite FoxTrot comics suddenly leaps to mind. From memory, so not necessarily entirely accurate:
Peter: “I said I was sorry about breaking your stupid model. What do you want from me?”
Jason: “Want? I want you to suffer. I want you to wallow in the depths of despair in knowing that you’ve destroyed something precious and irreplaceable. I want you to look into my tear-filled eyes and see the pain that you, and you alone, have caused.”
Peter: “Oh, great.”
Jason: “Then I want you to die.”
This seems relevant.
Ijeoma Oluo: …don’t be manipulated into prioritizing abusers over the abused. Look at the debates happening & always ask: who benefits from this dialogue the way that it is?
Let me try formatting that again..
This twitter thread from Ijeoma Oluo seems relevant.
And yet the politicians continue on. Roy Moore, John Conyers, and Al Franken are at least to this point getting away with it.
@chigau
@Nerd of Redhead
@Giliell
Once again, the claque bands together for 2 Minutes Hate. And everything they say is wrong, as well as off-topic.
I’ve been happy at Pharyngula roughly since it began, unlike these parvenues. I don’t care if Caine is respected by your claque: but I’ve gotten plenty of respect here. Look in the archives. Or read the comments to my Why I Am An Atheist post. And as for trolling, here Caine has incited your 3 totally off-topic posts with his little attacking comment. That’s trolling. Very Trump-like, using unrelated discussions to launch unnecessary attacks at others. Gonna call me Pocahontas too?
Please quit polluting this thread with your irrelevant hatred.
Two articles that reflect some of my thinking and are directly relevant.
Elizabeth Bruenig: Even the Wicked — “But it doesn’t mean they’re irreversibly evil, and I don’t think it means that everyone who has ever known or supported them must be expected to abandon them.”
Lili Loofbourow: 8 big questions we need to ask ourselves in the wake of America’s sexual assault reckoning — a discussion of the consequences for harm, varieties of harm, and much more.
Who benefits from this dialogue the way that it is?
Matt Lauer and the Emails: How accused harassers conjured a fake Hillary scandal.
You’re such a regular that you haven’t figured out that Caine is a woman.
Dude, really, stop digging. You’re going into the “elicits bouts of pity” territory.
Really, dude, you’re pathetic. You strike me as someone with a desperate need for feeling all smart and superior. Apparently nobody here can remember you, and that is talking about folks who have been here in quite a while, not to mention all the new people.
Oh, and stop being fucking racist. Nobody here used any slur against you, there’s absolutely no reason to bring that shit here.
Giliell, #21:
No one has claimed being stopped from leaving the room.
In the absence of any evidence or credible claim, speculating or implying that the door couldn’t be opened from the inside is just misinformation.
Arnie, forgive me my horrible naivity, but where I live, that is what “locking” means.
And as I have said before: the important aspect is whether the women believed themselves to be locked in.
@Giliell
Very clear example of projection from somebody who calls other people “cupcake”.
As for Caine’s gender: it doesn’t matter. Trolling is gender neutral, and that’s what she’s been doing.
Why not take your hate someplace else? Only your claque enjoys it, and you are definitely off topic. Oh, and read “rule the second” in the commenting rules.
mikehuben:
:Laughs: I’ve been hanging out here for at least 10 years, oh dudely dude. The other people you’re grousing at have been here just as long, if not longer. So, you’ve been a mighty presence here since 2005/2006? Odd how people somehow don’t remember you being all that much of a presence here. The rest of us are definitely remembered for our participation here.
Everyone who wrote a Why I Am post was given all the niceties; that doesn’t say anything about you in particular. You noted yourself in that thread that you were quite surprised by the accolades. Tsk. Your posting history isn’t very impressive.
Goodness, you’re such a staunch regular, and you don’t know that I identify as a woman; nor do you seem to be aware of my mixed heritage. You have a way of shoving your shoes in your mouth, to be sure. I’m not a troll, fuckwit. Nor is what I’m doing trolling. You have been in every thread which concerns a white male doing something very wrong indeed, and defending them. Now, I won’t call that trolling, because it isn’t, but it is unbelievably shit behaviour, and in other threads, where you have had nothing but sweetness and light for a fucking murderer, you’ve turned right around and been an arrogant, obnoxious, shameful asshole to people who have suffered with such a situation.
Giliell is absolutely right about you, you are utterly desperate to be seen as a venerable source of wisdom, but all you have to offer is shit. And I’ll be damned if people are going to be in a thread like this without being warned about your shit behaviour.
One more thing, Mikey. It’s not obligatory on your part to respond. You have options. I suggest you use them.
Ooops, sorry, I’ve been here 9 years, at least as an active commenter. Before that, lurking.
@Caine
You’re still entirely off-topic with your 2 minutes hate. Troll.
mike really, really, really likes the word “claque”. i’ve been trying to come up with a good way to integrate it into “pharyngula”, but it just doesn’t quite work. “pharynguclaque”? “claquengula”? damn. i really want a word for THIS specific claque, which is a great claque, and deserves to be distinguished from all the other, lesser claques. claquety claquety claque
Like our idiot president, you don’t know what troll is. You, like him, are the troll where truth is concerned. Like him, until you can admit you are wrong, you are wrong….
Mike, as a disinterested third party who’s an occasional lurker and has no preconceived notions based on the “defending a murderer” thread I didn’t read, you’re being pretty irritating in this thread. Although, the one link you posted was worth reading and I don’t necessarily disagree with it (the second link was broken). Maybe you could talk more about that, and make a positive case for what you actually want to say instead of all the laughable attempts to insult well-regarded members of the community. I’m not seeing any hate from them, more like weary contempt. It sounds like you’ve earned it, to a certain degree.
Back to your link, I do agree with the statement that, “As a general rule (and there are certainly exceptions) people (even the wicked) are more thoughtless, morally unheroic, weak-willed and negligent of their obligations than they are diabolically malicious.” How do you think this statement is relevant to Matt Lauer? Are you trying to make the case that any failings that fall short of “diabolically malicious” mean that one should get to continue making $25 million per year? If so I’m afraid that’s where you and I must part ways.
so all you “forgiveness” people would let him drive your daughter home after babysiting for him? he admits there is truth, we know he has millions. he should just watch porn and masturbate into his bank account with the door locked with his secret decoder ring. screw him. he’s been screwing his colleagues for years. he deserves nothing
Ah, I see that another of the “mean girls” has arrived, Nerd of Redhead. Yet another off-topic post from somebody with nothing to say except hate.
@happyrabo
If you want to understand what’s going on here, you would need to read “Queen Bees and Wannabes, a book about junior high school female clique behavior (that is sometimes carried on to adulthood, as we see here.) As a former school teacher, I’ve seen a lot of that juvenile behavior.
One of their strategies is to needle outsiders with false accusations until they respond and reveal something that can be used to belittle them. That’s what they’re attempting here.
Simple Desultory Philip @49: The Claque of Doom!
Claque House?
mikehuben:
Nerd might possibly be mean on occasion, but he’s not a girl. Not even a woman. For a Pharyngula expert, you certainly do get things wrong. Constantly.
And we aren’t off topic any more than you are, Ms. Huben. You like being the center of attention, so enjoy yourself.
it does, mainly in this case because it was specifically used as something you didn’t know, despite claims to be a longstanding commenter on Pharyngula.
and, btw, I can barely recall you.
I think the last comment from you was several years ago?
rings a not pleasant bell in my head.
Claquety Clak, Don’t Talk Back!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xAi80ShG0I
Gee troll, I’m a fat retired bald man, whose life’s partner died earlier this year, and was delightfully female. You obvious not knowing that shows you are nothing but a liar and bullshitter. I’ve been out as a man since crackergate. Which I personally don’t think you know about, and I’ve been here longer than that.
I don’t hate you, as that requires effort and you aren’t worth it. Only when you stop lying to yourself, can you stop lying to us.
Silence can show honesty and integrity. Try it. And if you don’t, the consequences are on your ego, not our problem.
I’ll even give you a hint. Assertive is just having your say, and then shutting the fuck up and letting others make up their mind, and listening to them who respond, as you could be wrong.
Bullies, like you, must be agreed with, and will stay in our faces until we do so, as you aren’t/can’t be wrong. Won’t happen. I give all bullies, like you the middle finger salute.
Nerd:
“I give all bullies, like you the middle finger salute.”
You, Sir, ARE a bully on these forums. I have seen no other commenter make such aggressive moves as you towards so many people you have never interacted with before. Not only that, but unfortunately you are not 1% as intelligent as you believe. You are a bully and an idiot, a combination which the US President is showing to be most unappealing.
And now Commissar Dave has arrived for more tongue-clucking.
Parochial in its throwaway chauvinism, this remark might be wearisomely common in run-of-the-mill environs, but it’s positively un-Pharyngulan, Huben. It stands out even amid the comically unearned condescension oozing from the mini-lecture you sneered out at happyrabo, , which really is saying something.
~
Claquetheists, the whole lot of you!
@Dave Grain
Thank you, Dave. It’s nice to see somebody else recognize the bullying techniques.
The “mean girls” in cliques (and their hangers on, which can include men, as described in the book I mentioned) are striving for status. Most of their comments are designed to augment their status by reducing the status of others. They do it with continual lying and pretense of making authoritative statements about other people, as we see with Nerd of Redhead. Attempts to answer their endless accusations just give them more material to lie about.
Maybe it’s too much to hope for, but in an era when women are finally exposing their predators, perhaps people who resent the bullying from this clique will speak up as well. Like you.
mikehuben, please do not include me in your railing against some clique which I do not believe exists. My beef is purely with Nerd.
[wrecked thread is wrecked, but #64 amuses me greatly]
So, remotely locking doors was an actual thing, because of perceived threats? And it became an actual threat directed at women? Who could have predicted?
Hold on, hold on, let me rephrase.
Except for all the women, who could have predicted?
mikehuben, I’m pretty sure it was #1 & #8 that motivated you to comment, but I also think you should have restrained yourself to everyone’s benefit (including you).
—
Anyway, to be on-topic, I too think the apology was insincere and motivated by pragmatism and hopefulness.
Relatedly, here in Oz a (somewhat former) celebrity in Don Burke has been exposed. His apologias (which include a self-diagnosis of Asperger’s and which went down as you might expect) were cringe-worthy. Google it if you want to see for yourself.
@Arren
Evidently you are unfamiliar with the sociology of bullying: females tend to use different styles than males. If you don’t want to follow my previous reference, perhaps you’d like this from the Scientific American site: 9 Ways to Deal with Adult Bullies and Mean Girls.
By the way, who are you to be the decider of what is and isn’t un-Pharyngulan?
mikehuben, pretty sure I was not the only one to cringe on your behalf when you initially made that claim. That you seek to sustain it (never mind how you seek to sustain it) does you no favours.
(Or: “you throw like a girl!”; or: “crying like a little girl!”; or… well, if you don’t get the picture by now further examples are futile)
mikehuben, do you have trouble finding hats to fit you? Just curious, mind.
Claque on!
Claque off!
Claque on, claque off, the claquer!
mikeHuben, are you actually going to discuss the topic or are you going to endlessly project?
I, for one, can do without the input of mike”murder-suicide is morally neutral”huben when it comes to sexual harassment.
Because there’s a lot of victimizing that can be done under the aegis of “not-as-bad-as-murder-suicide”, and mike can go get fucked.
@Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk- #44
“Monodirectional” locks are quite common and IME are the norm for things like offices, conference rooms, classrooms etc.
Chakat, sort of, but that’s due to workplace safety issues. Point being, they’re supposed to prevent people from getting in while still allowing people to escape.
(Here in Oz, that would contravene legislation)
If you can lock yourself into your office, you can prevent the Responders from getting to you before you die of the heart-attack.
or
before you finish your assault on the intern
whatevs
@mikehuben:
If right-wing scumbags and left-wing scumbags* are both representing you in the same way, perhaps you should take a moment to consider that maybe this isn’t political hackery, and that it could even have something to do with what you’re communicating and how you communicate it.
*”left-wing scumbags” here used to mean “Crip Dyke and others in this thread critical of the contributions of one mikehuben.”
@mikehuben:
I’ve been bullied by men and women my whole life. I was even bullied by my second grade teacher!
chigau and Caine are not bullying you, in a “mean girls” way or not.
Nerd, though he can be a bully at times (though some of this is likely due to being in the Chicago area near where I grew up), is not bullying you in any way in this thread.
All are notifying you that you are unwelcome here. You are even more guilty of being off-topic than anyone else. If not for you the whole thread would not have been derailed.
As for Lauer, I am saddened that there are so many men that have been doing this for so long. If you want power over someone like that, there are BDSM relationships, though, not being in that lifestyle people like Lauer might be abhorrent to the average BDSM enthusiast.
As a white male, I have not seen these things happen in the workplace. I can also be quite naive about what I’m seeing at times, as well. I like to believe I have never committed any offense like these being reported in the media now, but I can only hope that I have never put a woman in that position. I know I have never locked anyone into a room with me in such a way as Lauer did, at least.
I just want men to stop this.
I cannot speak for others, but In my eyes he would redeem himself if he, hypothetically:
1) gave all his millions and earnings above living wage to a charity or non-profit organization that works for the betterment of humankind, preferably one that deals with the transgressions of which he is guilty.
2) became a volunteer worker for a good cause but in some low publicity position and not trying to score any points for it.
3) kept 1) and 2) the whole rest of his life without commiting any further transgressions.
But this he would even feel inclined to do if he felt true remorse for doing something wrong he was not aware at the time of being wrong, Which I do not believe is the case.
And since the chances of him doing the 1) are next to nill, not to mention following through with 2) and 3) my answer to the question in the OP title would be realistically “nothing.”
What my various detractors are doing is called Relational Aggression (read this Wikipedia article.)
From the definition:
Gee, does that sound like the chorus of assholes writing things like “All are notifying you that you are unwelcome here.”, “mike can go get fucked”, and endless other insult.
And just like there is rape culture support of aggressive male sexual behavior, there is support of bullying behavior. Which includes the full range of denial of harms, claims of normalcy, etc. For a blog community that is supposed to be enlightened with respect to feminism, there seems to be a blind spot for bullying.
Lauer’s lawyers are trying to get him a $30 million golden parachute. I wonder how much of that would he be willing to donate to women-centric charities, if he really is that sorry for what he did? That would help for a redemption story, but yeah: what Charly said @#79.
@78 I don’t think Lauer would be interested in BDSM relationships, as you still have to respect the sub’s right to consent. In a sub/dom relationship it’s the sub who sets the limits. Not doing so is just rape.
Secondly from what I’ve read Lauer was trying to have his cake and not have it on the front page of the National Enquirer. He harassed his coworkers so that he could be confident in squashing the career of anyone who threatened to reveal his philandering.
What a Maroon, #71
You can’t explain that!
Wait… wrong one.
mikehuben, #80
Oh, stop trying to play the victim. You’re talking offensive garbage about misogynistic murder and people aren’t being polite in response. Boo hoo.
Oh boy! A definition! I love definitions! They’re so logical and rational!
mikehuben
Really, now, what is it? Is our gender irrelevant or is it all about our gender (which you’re really bad at guessing, I must say)?
BTW, “they are mean girls, therefore I can ignore what they’re saying ” is the closest we got to an actual ad hominem so far.
Of course, the inherent misogyny of a grown man calling grown women “girls” when he wants to demean them has already been noted.
I’ll own “mean” on occasion. It’s been some decades since I was a “girl”.
Now please point to the social standing and relationships you have here that we could be manipulating. And no, 20 comments on a thread 5 years ago really aren’t going to cut it (which is actually what makes me kind of worry about you, for your own sake. Who does that?)
Uhm, says the person who wants to talk about anything but the long term effects on the family of the murderer and his victim….
methuseus
Please don’t do that. Don’t confuse sexual assault with deviating sexual preferences or lack of sex. These men do this because of power. It’s not a kick that you can get with somebody who is actually consenting to whatever you’re doing.
Chakat Firepaw
Again, this could be a cultural issue, but I’m not sure if we’Re talking about the same thing. What you seem to be describing is what I know for entrance doors and yes, classrooms: A door that has a handle on one side and a knob on the other. It can be opened by the handle but not by the knob (which could be replaced by another handle so the door can be easily opened from both sides. Closing that door is not considered locking it. Indeed, that difference is quite important, as I just had training in “what to do in case of a school shooting” where it was emphasised that we need to lock the door and turn the key sideways.
This does not seem to be what is being described here, as the word “locking” is used repeatedly. Now it could be that it worked like this, that the remote made it impossible to enter from the outside but would leave the handle on the inside functional. Still, I’d like to point again to the question of whether the women entering would have been aware of that fine distinction. It’s not just European me who seems confused but lots of North American women as well. It is like when somebody puts a gun to your head: it’s not so much relevant whether the gun could actually be fired, it’s that you believe it could be.
Ah, the denial. At least people like Al Franken are capable of recognizing and admitting that they did wrong without excusing their misbehavior.
Mike, really, stop. For your own sake.
mikehuben,
When your attempts at making this about the reputation of the misogynist murderer didn’t play out as you wanted, you then turn it into about your feelings. What an asshole you are.
Ah, the old time-tested strategy: when you say something stupidly indefensible, and everyone is pointing out the obvious, make the discussion all about you and the fine craftsmanship of the cross you’re building, and how cruel everyone is for nailing you to it.
PZ, with all due respect you are ignoring the obvious. They are not addressing supposedly “indefensible” statements: they are addressing my personally. What you’re doing here is no different than defending a molester saying “the woman was asking for it” because of the way she dressed, or in my case because of my opinion. It’s blaming the victim when the victim protests. Talk about “old time-tested strategy”. Maybe you are unfamiliar with the problems of bullying, or maybe you don’t care, or maybe you don’t want to face the fact that people you’ve known for a long time are doing something wrong. It’s the same thing as in sexual abuse: you wonder how people can allow it to go on.
Find somebody who deals routinely with Relational Aggression and ask their disinterested opinion on these two threads. Oh, and I recommend that you watch “Mean Girls”. You’ll see they are doing the exact same kinds of things. Commit the “indefensible” crime of wearing the wrong clothes and you are the subject of ridicule and scorn and exclusion.
mikehuben:
Goodness, you have quite the persecution complex. I swear by the universe, I have not once thought about what you may or may not be wearing. :shudder:
You are not a victim, mikehuben. You have treated other people in the worst way, but you think that’s just dandy. You have not taken one moment to consider how much you have hurt other people. No, it’s all about mikehuben. As you won’t climb down from that cross, don’t be surprised that people are handing you nails.
mikehuben, #91
Do you genuinely not see the difference between touching someone’s body without their consent and rudely criticizing someone’s horrible opinion that they’re expressing in a voluntary online discussion? Honestly you think that’s the comparison you want to be making? Or do you want to take that back?
@mikehuben:
I can not believe that this was a thing that I actually read with my two peepers.
Nevermind your attempts to manipulate commentators by such an absurd and offensive appeal to emotion (the difference is quite stark, actually, one reason being that the only thing hurt in this case is your ego)… Maybe consider that when you wander into a community with full intention of being obnoxious, say things that are obnoxious, and then continue to be obnoxious when everyone in that community tells you to pike off… maybe they might not want to associate with you.
You aren’t entitled to anyone’s company, and no matter how high you try to build your own pedestal, you aren’t above the rules of common decency. Nobody has to be nice to you when you didn’t make a single, solitary attempt to give anyone else your consideration. Society is an act of giving and taking, and you want everyone else to give and give and give while you get to do fuck all.
Why don’t you go back to Reddit, I’m sure they love you there.
Ostracizing someone for wearing bell-bottoms is exactly like criticizing someone for thinking that there are reasonable excuses for murdering someone. Those are equivalent crimes.
WOW.
“The women who have vehemently criticized my terrible and uninformed opinions concerning violence against women are just like rapists and schoolyard bullies. Also I am the best feminist.”
Isn’t mikehuben just precious. Not even the faintest hint of possibility that he might be wrong and be hurting people, nay, the more people who tell him he’s wrong, the more certain he is that he’s right and they’re just catty b*tches.
Onamission5:
A variation on the classic b!tches be lying. And taking refuge in our claquety claque claque. Or something.
I hope you aren’t all the kind of claque that expects to get paid for applauding, because I didn’t sign no contract for that.
And if you’re the kind of claque that is made up of sycophants, I’m going to have to protest about all the times I’ve been severely criticized. Bad sycophants, bad bad bad.
Probably just more proof of how right-wing fundie trump-like conservative libertarian we are.
@mikehuben 80
That matches your first comment in the pissing away ones reputation thread. You typed a bunch of insulting characterizations about people that could not be in any way substantiated. Gossip.
Interestingly reasonable damage to reputations also occurs via “…deliberate manipulation of their social standing and relationships.” I’ve noticed a pattern where champions of the status quo like to rule common human behavior as unacceptable without explaining why. We’re apparently supposed to just take their word for it as you did in that comment.
You created this situation. I do not feel bad for you. You can still learn from it, I myself have been critisized by people here including Caine many times and I still manage to take information from it. It’s a good skill to have.
Mak @ 99:
I have to say that having “right wing authoritarian” hurled at me in an attempt to insult was one of the weakest things ever hurled at me lo these many decades on the ‘net. I did get close to giving m’self a stitch from laughing though.
It’s been great reading you again. Swing by Affinity some time. (Link in my nym.)
@Caine
Aaw… I can’t tell you how much that means to me. Thank you for the kindness, and the invite. It really made my day.
I did poke around a little bit yesterday, incidentally! I love art and I love critters, and I especially love art of critters. I’ll definitely drop by again.
Wow, we’re in denial?
Who is this guy, the reincarnation of Sigmund Freud?
All we need now is for Mike to call us FTBullies.
You know, mikehuben, I was actually beginning to take pity on you. It must be sad to make oneself so utterly powerless, because you firmly believe in your own infallibility that you think that any criticism you get is just horrible people out to bully you.
It is also pretty obvious that you think yourself to be very smart, because you quote shit and tell that you read books, when everybody can see that you really aren’t, because you obviously don’t understand what you’re quoting and keep failing to actually make a case and an argument.
And I find it really sad that you must have so little going on in your life that you need to cling to 20 nice comments un a thread 5 years ago. That’s not me being cynical or sarcastic, that’s me being honest.
But you know what?
Fuck that shit.
When you go on and compare the fact that you’re being criticised on a blog by people who hold zero personal, professional, political or social power over you to being a victim of sexual assault on a forum where many of us and probably all the women have been victims of sexual assault to varying degrees, you have done away with any goodwill or empathy I might feel towards you. I’m done with understanding abusers and apologists for misogynist violence.
I’ll save my empathy and compassion for the victims of such behaviour, because you, mikehuben, you ain’t a victim. You’re an over-inflated aggrieved by not having his boots licked arsehole and I couldn’t care less whether you’re personally good to stray kittens.
*pointing and laughing at mikey*
Dude, your presence is not wanted here. Go away.
======
As for Mr. Lauer… *shrugs* I dunno if he can redeem himself without some serious introspection and a shit-ton of therapy. Best thing he could do right now is to go on a manned mission to the surface of Jupiter and spare us all the inevitable whiney pleas for redemption. (Even better, if he’d take Mikey with him.)
@mikehuben:
You think we were doing what?
Okay, so …
1. who has excluded you from social activities?
2. I suppose you might feel humiliated, but when you poop on the dance floor, other people yelling, “Oh, gross! That’s poop on the dance floor right there!” isn’t an attempt to humiliate you. It’s an attempt to identify something horrid so that it can be dealt with. If you’re feeling humiliation, that’s not necessarily anything other than the natural consequences of your actions here.
3. While within certain communities shunning and refusing communication can be quite harmful, you’ve not been denied attention, and you certainly haven’t had friendship withdrawn: we were never friends with you.
But even if we had been doing those things, there’s a definition of relational aggression right there in the authority you cited – Wikipedia:
I hate to break it to you, mikehuben, but we don’t even know who you are, much less what your social standing is, the names of any of the people with whom you have significant social relationships, or even what types of things would cause you to lose social standing in your milieu. fFs, Roy Moore hasn’t lost standing in his social group even though he’s been publicly and credibly accused by multiple women of having assaulted them or otherwise abused his power in relation to them when those women were teenagers from 14-18.
People here just noted that you’re incompetent at making arguments, have trouble figuring out what evidence would even support your claims, and fail to even stay on topic long enough to see your arguments succeed or fail. Just call yourself a Christian, and those are frequently considered virtues.
So … how is it even possible that the comments on this thread in response to your statements meet the definition of relational aggression?
Oh, wait:
Nevermind.