Milo Yiannopoulos and Christina Hoff Sommers are jabbering in Minneapolis tonight, and Lindsey and Ryan are liveblogging the event. It sounds dreadful, and I’m glad I didn’t even try to make the drive in. Highlights so far: Milo’s contribution was all of ten minutes long, in which he characterized feminism as nasty, bitter, ugly, lesbianic hate fest
, and Christina’s trying to criticize modern feminism by slapping around Andrea Dworkin. And then it’s over.
It was a free event, so I guess everyone got what they paid for.
Another fun moment in the Q&A. They were asked by one of the dudebros in the audience about how to defeat the affirmative consent requirement at the U of M (wait, why would anyone oppose that?), and Milo made some dismissive joke about it. Lindsey’s comment:
So. We now have 200 guys who have had a pundit they admire tell them that conversations about consent kills fun, and requiring affirmative consent is absurd. Women of the U of M, this is an appropriate time to be scared.
I also like this:
Hahahaha oh man, Milo just said feminism is hurting women because it’s chasing away good guys who are going to retreat into video games and porn instead of having a relationship with a woman given this climate. Don’t let the door hit ya, guys.
The problem with statements like
is that they are utterly removed from reality. They readily give away the speaker as someone who either doesn’t know what they’re talking about, either is lying.
Because nothing says, “I’m totes not a rapist” quite like trying to find ways around consent, amirite?
Nothing quite like a gay man whining about something being “lesbianic”.
As for consent, it will not be needed when all of Milo’s fanboys are able to buy a Milo approved fembot.
Milo is missing an opportunity, why he’s leaving people out – I’m bisexual, not lesbian. What an idiot.
*Sigh* But there’s no rape culture, kids. Nope, none at all.
Some highlights:
Milo just said feminism is hurting women because it’s chasing away good guys who are going to retreat into video games and porn instead of having a relationship with a woman given this climate.
He’s so mysandrist.
Because he assumes that guys are a bunch of lamers like that. In fact, there are plenty of guys that don’t suck. Sorry, Milo, but your stereotype doesn’t work. If I was still competing in that particular market I suppose I’d be slightly amused to see all of Milo’s fans take themselves out of contention by going off with the gaming and the porns. But really, there are enough decent guys around that it wouldn’t tip the gender proportions enough to matter. You know what matters? Being a decent, interested and interesting, trustworthy and trusting, human being. Hey, did I just write a “how to pick up
girlsinteresting people” guide in that last sentence?Marcus Ranum @ 6
Yeah, but all that’s really difficult. Isn’t there a method which only takes a few minutes and doesn’t require any level of self-reflection or hard work?
Wow, this is just…
Well, if you have read Jane Eyre, you might remember the section where Rochester is describing how his mistress, Varens, was secretly having an assignation with another man, and he listens in to them badmouthing him. Leaving aside criticisms of the scene or of the book, there’s this comment there which describes this so perfectly, and it’s something along the lines of “they were trying to be as offensive as they could, but they were so stupid that they couldn’t even do that very effectively”. Reading this tripe is just… it’s offensive and evil, but it’s so tiring. It’s the same old shit. This isn’t even dressed up in new language like the creationists occasionally do with their nonsense, it’s just the same crap they’ve been peddling for ages now.
I don’t know whether to be depressed that they don’t change or learn, or relieved that at least there’s nothing new to have to try to deflect. Should we be angry that someone is spattering everyone in the area with mud, or glad that at least they haven’t found something worse by now?
Clearly Milo never learned the “don’t speak about things you know fuck-all about” lesson. On the flipside, he did excel at the “smugly pontificate about things you are supremely ignorant about” lesson.
Ooh, Milo dissed gamers and Sommers didn’t stick up for them? What kind of Gamergate “based mom” is she, anyway?
I, for one, am shocked — SHOCKED — that a serious thinker and scholar would rely purely on anecdote! I guess what qualifies one to speak on feminism is being well-read in stories from which to generalize.
You know all these straighter than a broomstick conservatives who go on and on and on about male gay sex and you keep asking yourself what this is all about? Milo’s the same, just the other way round. Why does a gay guy spend so much time thinking about straight people’s love lives?
Also, that nasty bitter ugly hate fest? Projection much? Apart from the nonsensical lesbianic. But I remember he’s a catholic gay…
If you find this to be the case, you’re doing it wrong. Unless you’re the kind of lowlife who gets off on violating other people’s boundaries, in which case you’re doing something else wrong…
Wait, I thought we’re all lesbians? How do these male feminists get laid if all the female feminists are lesbians? On which planet does that make sense?
Well, he did say we were trying, with the obvious implication that we’re not actually succeeding. That’s why we’re all so desperate, obviously. It couldn’t possibly be that we actually enjoy having relationships on equal terms with people we actually respect, because it’s clearly impossible for a man to respect a woman, and all relationships are necessarily built on dominance.
Excuse me, I need to go pick up an eyeball and have a shower…
Anyone else smell a tiny bit of projection in that statement?
Much scholarship, such thinky, many serious. Wow.
The only surprising thing about all this is that there were 200 dudes in there…assuming most weren’t there for a laugh, that’s depressing. Other than that, everything is exactly as predicted…Now onto the next ridiculous, anti-strawfeminist, hate filled rant…Richard?
The whole “men are only feminist to get laid” shite is a claim that says WAY more about the accuser than the target. I basically see it as an admission that they are shitty people. “Well, of course the only reason I would treat women as my equals is if I were to get something out of it!”
So, firstly, hah! That’ll show them nasty third wavers!
Secondly; feminists, like any other progressive social movement, have pretty much always lost contemporary public opinion, or at least had it denied to them. The suffragettes were reviled and dismissed too – it’s only after the fact that their goals are publicly lauded, and their actions are still criticised. Should we really expect the members of any movement that seeks to change the status quo to hold public opinion? And why is it that Dworkin lost public opinion? Not because she was particularly extreme so far as I’ve been able to tell (although I can see why someone ignorant of the past and of much of the present who only cares to read in soundbites might see her as such) but simply because what she was saying was critical of society and of those who have power in it, and that’s always been one of the deadly sins. Are we supposed to believe that someone losing public opinion tells us anything about the validity of what they have to say?
I’m also curious – how many feminists have actually taken gender studies? That’s always brought out as the thing that we do, but I know I never did. I feel fairly confident in assuming that a few of the commenters here, and certainly plenty of other feminists have taken it, but they give the impression that it’s the only source of feminists. I wonder if this has something to do with how many reactionaries are gamers – assuming that all people of a particular unit type come from the same kind of production building?
Pff, how easily they give in to censorship!
I’m guessing man-shaped non binary people are included in that, since that type don’t seem to understand variability but uh… wow. I’ve been doing it so wrong all this time. I have pretty amazing self esteem, and I’ve made no attempt to get so much as kissed, let alone laid, on the back of feminism. Mind you, I also haven’t been too near a campus recently, so maybe that’s the major stumbling block I’m facing?
Yes. When gender inequality is a thing of the past, worldwide, feminism will be at an end. I find that to be a foreseeable thing, although I’m not sure it’ll happen in my life time. It’d be nice, though!
Unconstitutional? Huh? How does the constitution come into it? Is “unconstitutional” just a thing that Americans say when they don’t like something?
Why would any rational, decent person want to oppose it anyway? Why does anyone want to have sex with someone who is unwilling or unable to tell them they want it? Even if the thought of raping someone accidentally out of a lack of giving enough of a shit to check doesn’t chill you to the core, even on a purely self-centred, “fuck the world, I’ve got mine” attitude level, why don’t you want good, passionate, fun sex?!
Pff, games are something you retreat to. No more than books or films. Those people who’re retreating because of feminism? Their absence hurts nobody. Or would hurt nobody if they would actually retreat. As it is, they spend far too much time playing their silly SJW War ARG. They just keep on sending those letters. Apparently they’re upset that some Japanese game’s localisation isn’t a direct literal translation, and that’s a bad thing. For reasons.
Yep. Rampant irrationality, ignorance, and smug self confidence are definite factors in both.
Please god yes. Take him. Take him away from us! He can appear on your crappy clip shows about how tv in the 60’s & 70’s was seriously iffy and tell the world all about how he thinks it’s absolutely fine and we that should probably bring the death penalty back. Or, you know, just not get rid of it.
I have written a lot of words. I should probably stop writing words now.
So their viewpoint is based on a complete denial of rapes happening and of the existence of patriarchy. It’s like – “I refuse to accept this as true, so in my world, it is not happening. Therefore, what I can see happening can be explained by: feminists existing only because of false statistics and misinformation in gender studies, probably then false memories of sexual assault being ‘implemented’ by psychologists, and false rape accusations of innocent men in court.”
However, later at 2:45 it’s about the ‘refugee rape crisis’, and my guess is that warning women how not to dress/drink/be in a deserted area not to ‘deserve’ the rape still applies.
So it’s a very selective denial, ‘just apply when convenient.’
Is that the “white knight” accusation? Bog off Milo, some of us enjoy relating to people as equals.
More recently, it’s because nobody likes zombies, particularly not straw zombies… As we all know, straw zombie Dworkin continues her iron-fisted reign of terror to this day, and that’s why there’s no porn any more.
@Dunc
Is she in league with zombie Robert Boyle?! :o
@21
Iknorite? Like, I can enjoy the company of women and respect them and even want them to have equal rights and treatment. And get this, I can want that for them whether or not I find them attractive. Amazing, I know, that one can find other people physically attractive and then ignore the attraction so as to treat others how they deserve to be treated. Oh, and how amazing that I really don’t give a flying fuck whether a person is “ugly” when deciding whether to care about their needs.
Plus, it’s not like my wife is going to leave me if I don’t call myself a feminist. So there goes the “desperate-to-get-laid” argument.
Wait, I’m sure it’s been asked, but…
What about gay male feminists? Does Milo just pretend they don’t exist?
Curious minds are curious: Does Milo think “lesbianic” rhymes with “panic,” “schizophrenic,” or some other shuddery word that might be out there somewhere that ends with the cluster “–eeuhnik”?
@25 gmacs
Oh no, i’m sure he just thinks they all wish they could be straight, like he does. He’s a deeply self-loathing gay man himself, who thinks calling people lesbians is both an actual insult and clever. This is not the kind of territory where you should expect any logic or reason to be found.
gmacs @25:
I’d raise my hand, but it’s apparently imaginary.
@Friendly, 26
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was thinking of satanic.
LykeX @ 15
Yiannopoulos says that he is gay, so, no, I don’t detect any projection. I don’t know that he wishes he were straight, either, or that he’s self-loathing. (I do get the impression that he doesn’t very much like any other gay men, though.)
It would be supernice if we could not posit on the state of his sexuality and take him at his word – even though he’s an awful person.
I really don’t grok his problem with feminism. I’m having a really difficult time figuring out, based on the specific things that he says, how feminism should concern him. There are lots of gay men, I’m sure, who aren’t feminists, and benefit from feminism and the actions of feminists. Their ignorance, or whatever, is unfortunate, but they don’t act out like Yiannopoulos. Why ever a gay man, in any case, would want to preserve heteronormative, patriarchal culture eludes me. At some level he must understand that he is living his life like he is because of certain antecedents. Is this just a way for him to gain entry to some boys’ club? If so, that’s pathetic and it won’t work. Surely he knows that anti-feminists and homophobes overlap, right? Right?
I’d forgotten about that. Well, there goes a perfectly good hypothesis.
Thomathy, Mandatory Long-Form Homo @30:
Yep, and it’s all the fault of “nutty broads.”
Does anyone else find this to be a really weird hangup for people to have?
I mean, do all these guys fantasize about wordless sex? How shitty of a lover must you be if you’re so bad at sexy-talk you can’t even fit the crucial topic of consent into your coquetry? How selfish are you that you don’t want to communicate your desires and listen to your partner’s?
gmacs
They have obviously never ever experienced the incredible hotness of somebody saying things like “I really want to have sex with you” or “Oh, that’s so good, please don’t stop”
Says a lot about them, little about affirmative consent…