Ho hum Hovind

Kent Hovind sent me more of his antic raving email, but I’m bored now. You can read it below the fold if you really must.

1. This will be my third blog (see also 3-9 and 3-13 on 2peter3.com) about self proclaimed atheist (See Ps. 14:1) PZ Myers at U of Minn. Morris. As MANY predicted… he weaseled out of my debate challenge and now tries to lay the blame on me. I offered to pay my own way to his turf, pay to video the debate and produce it and hand him a final copy that he can sell copies of for life AND pay him $150/hr up to 3 hrs to debate me. [# for paragraphs is mine. Please refer to them if you have comments.]

2. You would think that making an extra $450 for one evening’s work discussing a topic many think he is an expert in would be a no brainer. Nope! Not enough for him. He wants me to sell the DVDs for him too!

3. PZ! If you are so sure you are going to win and show the world how dumb these creationists are with their non-accredited degrees from the “diploma mills” (See Acts 4:13) then you should jump at my offer! I even told you that you could have all the assistants you want. Bring in the campus expert on carbon dating, geology, botany etc. You can “tag team” me for three hours! All I want is 50% of the time.

4. Your cowardice in backing out makes no sense to most folks who write me. After all PZ, the internet sings your praises! I’m very limited here but folks tell me that you have a PhD in biology from U. of Oregon, were voted “Humanist of the Year” by the American Humanist Association in 2009, “created his own web site and blog, Pharyngula.org, which has since been hosted at ScienceBlogs by Seed Media Group and Freethought Blogs by Ed Brayton,” “He was a founding member of The Panda’s Thumb blog, is a member of Minnesota’s Citizens for Science Education and the science journal Nature listed his blog as “the top rated blog written by a scientist” and has the “third-most-read-blog maintained by a Minnesotan.”

5. Wow! What chance would a lowly former high school science teacher with degrees from Bible schools that you think are worthless have against an intellectual and scientific giant like you? It would be David v Goliath all over again! (I Sam. 17). (ooops-bad example.) Or maybe the Mighty, Unsinkable Titanic v completely stupid iceberg? (ooops, another bad example-oh well, you know what I mean) Anyway, I’m VERY scared of debating you PZ but … I’m still willing to make a fool of myself and try! I’ll even raise it from $150 to $200/hr just for you PZ. I MIGHT make it $250 if you buy my supper before the debate AND sign my Bible next to Psalm 14:1.

6. BTW- my Norwegian grandparents came from Trondheim in de ol county and settled in MN and La Cross, WS. Dere are still lots of Hovinds and Espenes’s in dose states. Ufta! I LOVE dat part of da county! (in da summer!) Ya sure you betcha!

7. Most of the Norwegians I know have loads of common sense. I’m amazed they let him teach that dumb religion of evolutionism in a science class in their state! I’m especially amazed they would allow someone to teach in their university who has such a foul mouth and dirty mind! I can’t reprint the Mar.14, post of his reasons for backing out of the debate for the profanity and childish name calling.

8. You would think PZ would be so confident of making a fool of me in front of his students that he could get Nat Geo, Discovery or Bill Nye or Nature or BBC or CBS or CNN to pick up the DVD, show it over and over and make him rich! He can market copies of the DVD world wide through his scoffer and skeptic channels and sell millions! Once he gets a web site to offer them for sale I even offered to tell folks about his site if they would rather get a copy from him! He keeps 100% of the profit and pays me 0% royalty. I run 100% of the risk of losing money if it doesn’t sell and he is guaranteed a LOT of money for a LITTLE work. He said no. What’s that noise a chicken makes?

9. BTW- I DID offer and insist we discuss one topic at a time that will be “strongly and narrowly focused!” HE’S the one who would want to run to a new topic to hide the embarrassment when I make a fool of him or expose his lies on one topic (such as below. :)

10. I hate to waste my valuable time on this response to his refusal to debate but… in light of Titus 1:11 sometimes these things must be done. Like the ol county farmer said, “I just want to raise my chickens but I have to stop once in a while to kill snakes.”

11. So, to take ONE topic at a time and NARROWLY define it and discuss it till ONE of us ADMITS he is WRONG…let’s just look at the name of PZ’s web address since it is named after “his favorite stage in embryonic development the pharyngula stage.”

12. PZ Myers calls his web address: freethoughtsblog.com/Pharyngula. Since the average layman may not know what that word means I thought I’d shed a little light (See Jn. 3:19!) on what this “con artist” Myers is doing.

13. For those who may not know… one of the main reasons so-o-o-o-o-o many “atheists” hate me is simply because I know how to pull the curtain back and reveal that they are actually pitiful little men using smoke and mirrors to fool the masses into thinking they are “the great and powerful Wizard of science” when they are nothing of the kind. One of the main ways they try to hide their lies is with the “smoke” of big important sounding words as if the words themselves are proof of something. It’s OK Toto. I can translate it all into 4th grade language for you. These folks are nothing to be afraid of. Actually they are to be pitied, scorned, exposed and avoided!

14. This was sent to me directly from PZ’s blog site:

15. “The blog is named after his favorite stage in embryonic development, the pharyngula stage. The pharyngula is a stage in the embryonic development of vertebrates. [1] Named by William Ballard, [2] the pharyngula stage follows the blastula, gastrula and neurula stages.

16. At the pharyngula stage, all vertebrate embryos show remarkable similarities, i.e., it is a “phylotypic stage” of the sub-phylum, [3] containing the following features:

17. notochord
18. dorsal hollow nerve cord
19. post-anal tail, and
20. a series of paired branchial grooves.

21. The branchial grooves are matched on the inside by a series of paired gill pouches. In fish, the pouches and grooves eventually meet and form the gill slits, which allow water to pass from the pharynx over the gills and out of the body.

22. In other vertebrates, the grooves and pouches disappear. In humans, the chief trace of their existence is the Eustachian tube and auditory canal which (interrupted only by the eardrum) connect the pharynx with the outside of the head.

23. The existence of a common pharynula stage for vertebrates was first proposed by German biologist Ernst Haeckel (1834-1919) in 1874. [4]”

24. Kent’s Comments:

25. The use of big words is often done by der schlickmeisters like Myers to impress the gullible and the un-initiated. New college students especially are often bamboozled by the intelligent SOUNDING professor on the first day. This often works on students where the teacher has an obvious academic (he can fail them) and psychological (they ASSUME he is smarter) advantage. Well let’s see: He can’t fail me, fire me, frighten me or fool me. THAT scares guys like him and is the REAL reason he pulled out of the debate no matter what he SAYS and everyone with half a brain and one eye can see it!

26. Let’s pull back the curtain.

27. Phayngula is one of the many stages of development babies go through as they grow in the womb. Any biology book will teach them. After babies are born they still go through many stages of growth so why not call it the freethoughts/infancy or freethoughts/puberty or freethoughs/senile? I bet I know the reasons he chose that name. A. Big word! B. of all the stages of growth he THINKS this one shows evidence for his dumb religion of evolutionism.

28. Here’s the history behind the “pharyngula” idea as evidence for evolution. I’ll summarize here but you can get a great and detailed explanation from Creationwiki.com and www.evolution-facts.org or in “Evolution Handbook” p. 726-742. (drdino.com)

29. From Evolution Handbook- “Darwin hinted at recapitulation in his 1859 Origin of Species; so his devoted disciple, Thomas Huxley, included a pair of drawings of canine and human embryos in an 1863 book he wrote. Darwin placed those same drawings in his 1871 book, Descent of Man. Ernst Haeckel, in Germany, seized upon Darwin’s suggestion and announced his so-called “Biogenetic Law.” In a two-volumn 1868 set and its 1876 translation, History of Creation, and later in another book in 1874, Haeckel published fraudulent charts to prove his “law.”

30. “Haeckel made one woodcut {the way they printed back then} then had it printed three times with the titles “dog” “chicken” and “tortoise.” Haeckel made one ovum woodcut and had it printed three times, labeled “dog” “monkey” “man.” Haeckel was later repeatedly charged with fraud. Wilhelm His Sr (1831-1904) a German embryologist, exposed the hoax in detail in an 1874 publication (unsereKorperform) and concluded Haeckel was dishonest…”

31. “In 1915, Haeckel’s fraudulent charts were even more thoroughly exposed as the cheats they actually were. ‘At Jena, the university where he taught, Haeckel was charged with fraud by five professors and convicted by a university court. {THAT’S what the U of M Morris needs to do with Myers!!!} His deceit was thoroughly exposed in ‘Haeckel’s Frauds and Forgeries’ (1915), a book by J. Assmuth and Ernest J. Hull. They quoted nineteen leading authorities of the day…”

32. “In 1997, Dr. Michael Richardson, an embryologist at St. George’s Medical School in London, assembled a scientific team that photographed the growing embryos of 39 different species. In a 1997 interview in the London Times, Richardson said this about Haeckel: ‘This is one of the worst cases of scientific fraud. It’s shocking to find that somebody one thought was a great scientist was deliberately misleading {like Myers is!} It makes me angry {me too!}.. What he [Haeckel] did was to take a human embryo and copy it, pretending that the salamander and the pig and all the others looked the same at the same stage of development. They don’t…These are fakes.” Michael Richardson, quoted in “An Embryonic Liar,” The London Times, August 11, 1997, p. 14″

33. “The theory of recapitulation {the idea that the embryo goes through stages representing evolution} should be defunct today.” Stephen Gould, “Dr. Down’s Syndrome,” Natural History, April 1980, p. 144″

34. There are MANY more great quotes in the Evolution Handbook (on MANY topics besides this!) and I recommend it to anyone studying the entire creation v. evolutionism debate. It’s nearly 1000 pages and only $5- less in quantity! Whoever is getting the Evolution v. God DVD for U of M should get a box of those to pass out too! Let’s help rescue the whole school from liars like Myers. If you students there can’t find a professor to debate me get a group together and invite me to just come speak on campus. I’ve done that MANY times. Twice at U Cal Berkeley!

35. PZ’s web site says there are “remarkable similarities”…He’s lying!

36. He says there is a “post-anal tail”…He’s lying again. The yoke sac and it’s critical function is described on p. 729

37. He says there are “gill pouches”…He’s Lying.

38. He cites Ernst Haeckel (1834-1919) as the hero who came up with the idea…this time Myers is telling the truth! But it was Haeckel who lied!

39. WHY is PZ Myers still teaching this lie 130 years after it was proven wrong? Does the U of M have textbooks with these drawings proven to be frauds in 1874? Do any of Myers hand outs for his biology class have these drawings or refer to them as evidence for evolution without being honest about the FRAUD?

40.Doesn’t the U of M have ANY standards of honesty for their teachers? I suspect it is because he is DESPERATE for ANY evidence to support his religion so he can justify his rejection of God. Haeckel also wanted to get rid of God in his life so he could salve his conscience as he, at age 62, left his wife at home to carry on a long term love affair (read ADULTERY) with a 28 year old.

41.Why do you students at U of M tolerate this? If you had a math teacher teaching that 2+2=5 what would you do?

42.WHY does U of M put up with this? Don’t you have a committee to examine teachers who lie and are fraudulent? Who checks to see that your curriculum is accurate. Ya’ll need somebody to do their job up there! If he refused to keep his religion of evolutionism out of class then fire him. I hear the oil field in ND is hiring. That’s not far from MN.

43. PZ, God made the world. He makes the rules (Ex. 20).You broke His rules (Rom. 3:23). He will judge you (Heb. 9:27). Denying it won’t help. Helping others NOT believe in God will make it WORSE for you (Mt. 18:6). Turn or burn PZ. Kent Hovind

I’ve written quite a bit about Haeckel and recapitulation theory. I can’t take a creationist idiot who thinks the Earth is 6000 years old too seriously when he accuses me of teaching out of date or inaccurate science.


  1. Louis says

    Word salad ending in “turn or burn”. Wonderful.

    If it isn’t misogynists it’s creationists. The similarities abound. Denialism is as denialism does.


  2. Larry says

    41.Why do you students at U of M tolerate this? If you had a math teacher teaching that 2+2=5 what would you do?

    Agree with him/her, but only for very large values of 2.

  3. shouldbeworking says

    If I proclaim you as an atheist, will stop describing you as “self proclaimed”? He seems to think that it is a bit presumptuous.

  4. daevrojn says

    This made me laugh because all I could think about what Ricky from Trailer Park Boys who never learned how to read except through recipes so whenever he wrote things down it was numbered like a recipe.

  5. myleslawrence says

    When you’re stuck in prison for your misdeeds, I guess it natural to try to get people to pay attention to you. Sad really – oh wait, is that the lunch bell I hear!

  6. allyp says

    George Bernard Shaw did say, “I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.” , but what is the prescription for the porcine variety that insists on wrestling?

  7. rq says

    He makes the rules (Ex. 20).You broke His rules (Rom. 3:23). He will judge you (Heb. 9:27). Denying it won’t help. Helping others NOT believe in God will make it WORSE for you (Mt. 18:6).

    If all of these things are supposed to be, you know, the same topic, why aren’t all these verses consecutive to each other in the bible? They seem to be scattered throughout the good book, almost as if… as if they were chosen at random!

  8. chocodonkey says

    PZ, you’re not interested in “tag-teaming” Kent for three hours?? Prude.

  9. gussnarp says

    Blah, blah, blah, blah…..

    He’s really just as completely unhinged as any old Canadian crank in his mother’s basement or a series of coffee shops.

  10. carlie says

    This will be my third blog

    Blog POST. Blog POST. Argh. I hate when people do that. It’s only the third blog if he’s making a new one every time he has something to say, like that one guy (who was that again?) who would do one post, say his blog was filled up, and make a new one.

  11. Zugswang says

    Looks like ol’ Kent might benefit from a schizophrenia diagnosis and some Haldol.

  12. says

    I see he’s trying the old creationist tactic of saying that because Haeckel fudged the facts on one point, anyone who says anything relating to similarities between fetuses must be lying. It’s similar to the idea that because Piltdown Man was a fraud, all other hominid fossils are automatically frauds, too.

    Honestly, I’m feeling a bit embarrassed on his behalf. He’s a grown man, after all. He should really know better.

  13. Christoph Burschka says

    “diploma mills” (See Acts 4:13)

    … that one sounds intriguing. I’ll bite.

    Acts 4:13: When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

    I gather he’s saying he don’t need no fancy schoolin’.

    But then why did he get that joke diploma in the first place?

  14. Randomfactor says

    Dear Religious Wackos:

    If you’re going to threaten me with your imaginary Hell, please do so at the outset so I know not to waste my time on your insanity.


    Sane People.

  15. says

    Wow. Kent Hovind is a combination of absurd logic, obfuscation, lies and a very condescending tone for someone with such an incredulous stance What a pitiful excuse for a human being. Reminds me of this faith-head I was recently having an argument with.

  16. serena says

    I got as far as #6 when I realized this sounded like an angry facebook post written by a high school student who is totes mad they can’t go to the mall, fo rlz.

    Props to whoever mentioned Ricky from TPB; Ricky was self-smartened and I’d say way more educated than Mister Hovind.

  17. John Small Berries says

    Apart from demonstrating to the world his ignorance regarding when to use a hyphen, what exactly is his rhetorical goal in repeatedly using the phrase “self proclaimed atheist”?

    Is he trying to evoke the common accusation that we atheists are only pretending not to believe in God? Or is the fact that someone proclaims himself an atheist supposed to make his words automatically less worthy of consideration?

  18. brucegee1962 says

    I just read a few points at random.

    Note to Hovind: The word you write as “Ya’ll” is actually punctuated “Y’all.” The apostrophe is there to represent the missing letters “ou.” When one is addressing oneself to university administrators, it is important to get these little details right so you aren’t dismissed as an ignoramus.

  19. says

    My, my. Kent certainly seems determined to come across as a 12 year old who can’t keep one thought long enough for it to make sense.

  20. Gregory Greenwood says

    So, in the world according to Kent, ranting for long enough about things you clearly don’t understand somehow makes you an authority? And he apparently thinks he can define as a ‘religion’ whatever he so chooses, even when it is perhaps the single most comprehensively evidentially supported scientific theory in existence, that does not have a single supernatural component or any reference to any notional ‘higher power’? With a definition that broad, one is left to wonder what wouldn’t qualify as a religion.

    And of course, the charming threat at the end – believe as I say, or my so called ‘god of love’ with have you tortured for eternity. Leaving aside the laughable nature of a threat that is to be carried out by a fictional character (it is like saying that you must do my will or Sauron will get you), Hovind seems completely oblivious to how this statement depicts his precious god as utterly morally bankrupt and downright evil. It gives you a glimpse into how warped his mindset really is that he doesn’t see any ethical problem with a notionally omnipotent (and, amusingly, allegedly also omni-benevolent) being torturing billions of defenceless people merely because they didn’t back the right theological horse. Once again, Yahweh effortlessly out-evils fictional characters specifically written to be villainous, and yet his fan club are too brainwashed and/or oblivious to notice.

    Wading through Hovind’s arguements is a painful experience, something akin to watching someone attempt to determine whether or not a bomb is still live by hitting it with a lump hammer – you know you should explain to them they are going about it incorrectly, but how do you even get through to someone like that?

  21. robro says

    It’s convenient that he numbers paragraphs like verses in the Bible. That will make it easier to incorporate his epistles into the canon at some later date.

  22. mothra says

    The real source of Honvid’s ire is that he now believes that PZ has denied him a payday.

  23. twas brillig (stevem) says

    …what exactly is his rhetorical goal in repeatedly using the phrase “self proclaimed atheist”?

    I think, he is trying to avoid being accused of “calling” someone an atheist, out of spite, degrading them with it, etc. He just has to emphasize that the great insult “atheist” is what they call themselves. He thinks the A-word is just as bad as the N-word. :-(

    re “12 yr old”:
    [ignore the ageist connotations] I could not help being baffled by his constant “refutation” with, “It is a lie”, with nothing more to prove HOW it is a lie. Just the simple assertion. And his, oh so subtle analogies to him being David to PZ’s Goliath, (oops), iceberg to Titanic, (oops again). We KNOW what he REALLY meant (Hovind, i.e. Capt. Obvious). Seemed really “childish” construction to me. His whole “word salad” seemed very immature; constant repetition, “Fight me, I dare you, why won’t you fight me? chicken? I double dare you…” To be the armchair diagnostician: Hovind must be a very lonely person and desperate for any attention. I sympathize: I’m sure I would be equally desperate in such a situation as his [but I don’t think I’ll ever get into his situation]. Suitable punishment is to just ignore him. Bye-bye Hovind. (your word-salad is _slightly_ amusing, but still just a salad: no substance)

  24. says

    Really, Kent was never the sharpest tool in the shed. His doctoral dissertation is infamous, both for factual inaccuracies and for literally being on the writing level of an 11 year old:

    Flesch Reading Ease: 69.44

    In fact, the Wikipedia page states that the average 11-year-old student’s written assignment has a “Reading Ease” of 60-70, which would indicate that the writing style of Kent’s supposed PhD-level paper is on par with that of a pre-pubescent student.

  25. terminus says

    @Mr. Hovind,

    I thought that you’d like to know that your name has come up in my AP Biology class a few times this year. Unfortunately, for you, it wasn’t for positive reasons. You see, several of my students were discussing the absurdities of creationist and intelligent design arguments (during our 2-month-long unit on Evolution) and it seems that you, Ken Ham, as well as the imbeciles over at the Discovery Institute are well known, blatant liars.

    Apparently, the more you open your mouth, the more obvious your lunacy becomes.

    @David Klinghoffer/Casey Luskin…they know your names as well.


  26. methuseus says

    I have to say I was worried when I got to the bit on Haeckel. It seemed somewhat stupid and worrying that PZ went along with something like that. Not being a biologist, and not having read PZ that far back, I’m glad PZ included the link to his writings on Haeckel. I learned quite a bit today, I’m happy to say!

  27. Pierce R. Butler says

    … self proclaimed atheist (See Ps. 14:1) … AND sign my Bible next to Psalm 14:1…

    So I looked it up –

    The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    Hovind must have been quite the wit on his grade-school playground. Glory days!

  28. robro says

    twas brillig (stevem) @#34

    …what exactly is his rhetorical goal in repeatedly using the phrase “self proclaimed atheist”?

    I think, he is trying to avoid being accused of “calling” someone an atheist, out of spite, degrading them with it…

    I suspect it’s because he doesn’t accept that anyone can truly be an atheist. True fundamentalists are convinced that everyone believes in god. Then there is their notion that atheism is just another religion.

  29. deannajoylyons says

    Hmmm, number 24. In the letter says “Kent’s Comments:”

    Who else was involved in writing this dreck? @robertbaty, maybe?

    It certainly matches his style in the beginning.

  30. Desert Son, OM says

    Yea, verily, the random non sequiturs are multiplied an hundred-fold. Por ejemplo:

    7. Most of the Norwegians I know have loads of common sense.

    Leaving aside the question of whether or not “common sense” is either common or sense, and leaving aside the fact that “common sense” is always contextualized, well, so what?

    Otra vez:

    25. The use of big words is often done by der schlickmeisters . . . are often bamboozled

    Oh, Kent. See, this is . . . never mind.

    Aside for anyone interested: Next time you stop in at Der Schlickmeisters, I recommend the bratwurst mit scharfer senf, and they also do a nice radler, lovely as a thirst-quencher in the summer. Prost!

    Y también:

    26. Let’s pull back the curtain.

    Kent, see, this is . . . never mind.

    Also, I’m stunned I made it all the way to item 26. I need a whisky.

    Still learning,


  31. Nemo says

    Try to imagine how stupid you’d have to be to look up to Hovind.

    Seriously, try. I can’t do it.

  32. Menyambal says

    I started speed-scrolling after a while.

    Regarding Haeckel: He got caught, by scientists. Nobody is blindly following him.

    Regarding woodcuts: If it took you three weeks with a little-bitty chisel to make one illustration for your book, and the point of the article was that two illustrations were almost identical, wouldn’t it be tempting to just use the same one twice? (I don’t know if that’s the case, I just know that illustrations used to be a lot of work. And, they all were works of art—it was not possible to get an impartial image.)

    Kent, PZ doesn’t want a profit from the CDs, and doesn’t plan to sell any to his supporters. He knows you are in this to get money from your supporters, and just wants to reduce your profits. Your supporters are the big market, your greed is the target.

    brucegee1962 @ 27 LOL

  33. Ray, rude-ass yankee says

    Shorter Hovind:

    1) PZ is a big dumb dummy

    2) PZ is a liar, liar pants on fire

    3) PZ is a scaredy cat.

    4) Waaaaaa, pay attention to meeeee

    5) Big words I don’t understand scare me

    6) Please, please, pay attention to me, I’m lonely and bored in prison

    7) Oh, yeah I also want to make money off of PZ without giving him anything but a pittance up front.

    Well, maybe not that much shorter!

    As to 43, “Making it worse? How could it be worse?! (dancing around) Jehovah!, Jehovah!”

  34. Ray, rude-ass yankee says

    From my comment 45, that was Hovind’s “point” 43, not comment 43 (sorry Nemo!). In case that wasn’t clear.

  35. coffeehound says

    mothra @ 33,

    The real source of Honvid’s ire is that he now believes that PZ has denied him a payday.

    This, in spades. He sees his money barge sailing away in the sunset. This post sounds decidedly more desperate than the first and his infamous “subtle wit” (note the “scare quotes”- you “scared”?) gives way to an all out attempt to goad PZ into accepting the challenge. But jeebus how tiresome.

  36. Menyambal says

    Yes to the idea that Kent wants to debate so he can make money. I was at a Hovind talk, one time, and the most embarrassing part was when he started shilling for his videotapes that were for sale out in the lobby. I mean, there were parts of his talk that made me angry and frustrated and even doubt my sanity, but when he fired up on the tapes available for just 18.99, I was embarrassed to even be in that building.

  37. Rich Woods says

    @Menyambal #48:

    Yes to the idea that Kent wants to debate so he can make money.

    No doubt more than he’d enter on his tax returns.

  38. praestans says

    All this references to the Bible….I wunder: how did the incarnat ego eimi/yahweh Jesus grow?

    I mean we’re all subject to apoptosis – programmed cell deth (I mean the body’s cells not mr Hovind’s ambience – let me make this clear lest ). since to grow is for our cells to die. presumably as consequence of the Fall – right Ken?

    Since Jesus grew, had his foreskin lopt off, had a haircut now and then ( I wunder what he askt the barber- funnily enough did u know: mary magdalene = the Aramaic term ‘mgadla nshaya’ meaning ‘women’s hairdresser’?), he shed dandruff (not just blood, mind…

    Jesus grew, his hair grew…i.e. he’s full of deth…therefore ineluctably full of sin
    therefore kent’s faith must be in vain…

  39. says


    [quote]Leaving aside the question of whether or not “common sense” is either common or sense, and leaving aside the fact that “common sense” is always contextualized, well, so what?[/quote]

    Well, one could accept his statement, note how the aforementioned people haven’t burned PZ (either in effigy or reality) …. and draw some conclusions about their assessment of the professor.

    Or, one could take the Hovind route and …. trail off, feeling quite self-satisfied (the smugness comes throught more effectively than anything else in his “blog.”

    I simply wonder how the man could even get a passing grade in an entry-level composition course. Organisation that ain’t.

  40. pocketnerd says

    Very amusing to hear whinging about cowardice from yet another creationist who doesn’t allow comments on his blogs.

  41. frankb says

    My take on the “self-proclaimed atheist” bit is that Hovind is implying that PZ is egotistical, making grand claims about himself. Of course Hovind is just as self-proclaimed in being a christian as PZ is in being an atheist.

  42. philhoenig says

    Once again Voltaire’s prayer[1] turns out to be the only one that an atheist would ever need, and which always seems to be answered.

    [1] I have always made one prayer to God, which is very short. Here it is: “My Lord, make our enemies quite ridiculous!” God answered me.

  43. Usernames are smart says

    5. Anyway, I’m VERY scared of debating you PZ…I’m still willing to make a fool of myself and try!

    25. He can’t fail me, fire me, frighten me or fool me.


    Also, I see we’re trotting out the “preemptively call them what I know they’re going to call me so I don’t have to defend my own position” tactic (a subset of the Gish Gallop):

    7. … that dumb religion of evolutionism….

    27. … his dumb religion of evolutionism.

    40. … ANY evidence to support his religion ….

    42. … keep his religion of evolutionism out of class ….

    Poor, poor Hovind. He either doesn’t know the meaning of the word “religion” or he hopes you don’t.

    The scientific theory of origin of species provides knowledge, whereas religion does not.

    Berkeley’s three tests for knowledge (source):
    1) The actor must believe the assertion (both religion, science)
    2) The assertion must be true (science)
    3) A non-casual relationship must exist between 1 and 2 (science).

    Science provides knowledge. Religion provides belief without any possibility of knowledge, as it has no falsifiable evidence to test.

  44. imthegenieicandoanything says

    Xians – and the nuttiest of the wingnuts – think they are being “intellectual” when they number their… ideas. I didn’t read past the first sentence of 1. because Dr. Diploma-mill isn’t simply stupid but incredibly boring, but I wanted to see how many numbers he would use.


    Like the fact that “god” spelled backwards is “dog” it makes you think: why 43? That’s ONE MORE than 42.

  45. gardengnome says

    The frequent references to DVD’s suggest that that is what he really wants out of all this, a product to sell to his gullible followers – I daresay he needs the cash right now and he definitely doesn’t want to actually work for it.

    And PZ’s free to sell copies of a Hovind-edited version of the event…right.

  46. jste says

    Did… did Hovind seriously try to argue that “PZ used BIG WORDS so he’s obviously wrong and lying!” ?? My eyes were somewhat glazed over by that point, so I could be wrong, but…

  47. anne mariehovgaard says

    Dere are still lots of Hovinds and Espenes’s in dose states. Ufta!

    If they’re all like you, I’d say uffda as well. Poor states!

    Most of the Norwegians I know have loads of common sense.

    That may be overstating it a bit, but at least most real Norwegians are non-religious.

  48. barnestormer says

    Jeeeeeeez. Kent Hovind was my first-ever encounter with Creation Science, back in the mid-90s. Our evangelical neighbors lent me and my sister his lecure series — maybe 48 cassette tapes in a big plastic fold-out case. I remember he’d drawn some kind of branch diagram showing that the theory of evolution was the common ancestor of Communism and Nazism, which for some reason struck me as extra ridiculous.

    Has he always been this incoherent? My neighbors seemed to genuinely think those tapes were a conversion tool.

  49. Kristof says

    “Turn or burn”?

    As Ricky Gervais said – “A Christian telling an atheist he is going to Hell is about as scary as a small child telling an adult they wont get any presents from Santa”.

    Unless Mr Hovind was thretening PZ with arson…

  50. Thumper: Token Breeder says

    You can “tag team” me for three hours!

    I am never getting that image out of my head, am I?

  51. saganite says

    Amazing. Very childish at times, too, like his constant references to “GOTCHA”-Bible passages like the usual “the fool has said in his heart”-blahblah. I would like to see him trounced, but, really, he’s just a fraud sitting in jail, impotently raging at people because he hopes to score some money from them (either through the lawsuit or through getting publicity in a debate like the Nye/Ham one recently). Let him rot a little while longer and when he is released, be sure to observe him carefully. Considering how unrepentant he is, it’s probably just a matter of time until he commits another white-collar crime.