[Lounge #360]


This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. And that’s a turtle, with butterflies. I think that makes it a Turtle+.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

Comments

  1. KG says

    ““You want off-the-charts status? Check out the curriculum vitae of one Willard M. Romney: $200 million in the bank (and a hell of a lot more if he didn’t give so much away), apex alpha executive, CEO, chairman of the board, governor, bishop, boss of everything he’s ever touched,”” he continued, noting that ““high-status animals”” like Romney tend to have more male offspring.

    ““Professor Obama? Two daughters. May as well give the guy a cardigan. And fallopian tubes,”” Williamson asserted. – National Review

    One small fact appears to have escaped Williamson. Obama is, um, President of the United States of America, and hence the most powerful man in the world. By Williamson’s own logic, Obama should be able to count on every woman eligible to vote.

  2. says

    I learned that red-green colourblindness is one of those X-chromosomal recessive diseases that men inherit from their phenotypal healthy mothers? Did I miss something, is it just one of those simplified “lies to children”?

    That is correct. The medium- and long-wavelength opsin genes are on the X chromosome. Barring unusual chromosomal abnormalities, men do not pass on an X chromosome to their sons; their sons’ X chromosome always comes from the mother. So, yeah, mom is almost always responsible for passing on the most common colorblindness alleles.

    There is another exception: tritanomaly/tritanopia is caused by a defect in the short wavelength opsin, which is carried on an autosome. That’s inherited with equal frequency from mothers and fathers. It’s also really, really, really rare: about 0.001% of individuals have it.

  3. says

    Let’s begin a boots-on-the-ground campaign with the African continent, to model alternatives to theocratic fundamentalism. Let’s form “sister cities” with African communities, utilizing internet, to support campaigns against: “corrective” rape of Lesbians, state-and-church-sanctioned assassinations of QUILTBAG people, “theraputic” rape of kids to “cure” AIDS, pressing for an end to genital mutilation of children, good sex education, adult literacy, microlending, safer sex products distribution and building computer labs on the African continent.

  4. Paul says

    Obama is, um, President of the United States of America, and hence the most powerful man in the world.

    I thought that was the Pope. Or Pat Robertson.

    As an American, I long for the day when that quoted text is considered a ridiculous statement. And not just by cynics who consider the chairman of the Fed to instead hold that position.

  5. Beatrice says

    As an American, I long for the day when that quoted text is considered a ridiculous statement.

    As a non-American, I hope for the same.

  6. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    PZ, mabus is crapping all over the Republicans like about AIDS thread.

  7. says

    Thanks, PZ
    So, why the fuck does somebody who hasn’t done biology since highschool (aka me) know more about this than my friend’s pediatrician who told her that her son very likely inherited his colourblindness from his paternal grandfather?
    I mean, not that it matters in the effect, kid has it, nothing to be done about it.
    Incidentially, my girls have a 50% chance of carrying my “bad” chromosome. Probably in some generations to come somebody might wonder why their little boy really thinks that frogs are red, should they decide to reproduce.

  8. says

    I got my first “You’re ugly because you’re a feminist, and a feminist because you’re ugly” blog post, with an added bonus of being accused of being autistic. Does that win a cookie or something?

  9. a3kr0n says

    It looks like he’s wearing a pretty blue hat, but what do I know, my doctor says I have color blindness. That stupid book did too. It’s a 9, damnit!

  10. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    I just finished up with an interview at a waterfront restaurant in downtown Pensacola. It’s a very nice place, though somewhat small. The menu isn’t extensive, but the dishes are unique to this town (as far as I can tell) and they’ve been open long enough that it looks like they have the stability and business to keep going for some time. I don’t like to lie (wherever possible), so discussing the details of my termination from my last job was difficult. In the end, I told the truth, hoping that the details would give a better picture of the situation.
    Following that, I broke down and told my parents what happened. That was so much FUN! /sarcasm
    My parents are loving and kind people. They raised me to be the person I am today. My father and mother encouraged me to think outside the box. They wanted me to think critically about things. They didn’t want me to accept things at face value. I credit them tremendously with molding me into the person I am today.
    Nonetheless, it’s difficult to turn to your parents and say “mom. dad. I’m down to less than $300 to live off until I get a job. I know you helped me out last year when I was fired from my last job, and I really don’t want to do this, but I need help. I kinda need gas, and groceries, and money to pay a few essential bills.” Of course, being who they are, their first instinct is to provide assistance and support.
    I love them so much for being the kind of parents they are.
    I just can’t shake this feeling of being a failure. I’m a fucking adult and I’ve been fired from two jobs in the past year. Neither situation was warranted, and both were questionable firings. That doesn’t change the fact that I’m supposed to be taking care of myself and right now, it’s proving difficult.
    ****
    It’s funny, but when others [here in The Lounge] say “I’m sorry for dumping this on you folks, but I needed to vent”, my reaction is always “that’s what we’re here for”. Yet here I am about to say “I’m sorry for dumping this on you folks, but I needed to vent/cry.”

  11. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Sadly, no cookies for feminists, ’cause we’re also fat ;)

    Gee, that still fits me too, even after losing a bunch of weight (almost 20 kg) this year.

  12. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Yet here I am about to say “I’m sorry for dumping this on you folks, but I needed to vent/cry.”

    *voice of Frasier Crane* “we’re listening” */voice of Frasier Crane*

  13. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Giliell:

    Ohhh, seems like Loftus is starting his own “true skeptical” blog network with such prolific writers like bluharmony!

    Gosh, you sound just *thrilled* at that idea :)
    (you’re going to ditch FtB for Loftus’ blog network, huh? :)

  14. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Having read the linked piece about autism and feminism, all I can say is that as a feminist who IS on the autism spectrum, that d00d is a shitstain.

  15. says

    Nerd
    Well, I actually am, but even if I looked like my slightly anorectic sister that would be true.

    Tony
    Fingers are crossed.
    I understand your feeling of failure. Even though you intellectually know you aren’T, your gut screams something else.
    It’s also important to know that the psychological effect of unemployment usually progresses in stages and that the “fuck, fuck, fuck I’m a worthless failure” one is normal. And it’s much worse for men because you get the extra-amount of “strong breadwinner” image.
    And I know that telling somebody that you are down and out and need help is a damn hard thing to do. Be proud of yourself. Not telling them all the time was much easier, wasn’t it?

  16. F says

    I learned that red-green colourblindness is one of those X-chromosomal recessive diseases that men inherit from their phenotypal healthy mothers? Did I miss something, is it just one of those simplified “lies to children”?

    I’ll add to PZ’s answer the truth which you can tell to those “women are inferior” sorts: Female primates are responsible for us having three-color vision. Let ’em suck on that one.

  17. broboxley OT says

    Caine thanks for the girlfood advice. Will check into Reggie Rat or something that contains a similar balance of stuff.

    Tony, hope you get that gig. On being asked why you were fired just explain that sometimes you cant balance a till but have never been short on inventory/cash flow

    I used to spend time in bars years ago and that answer would satisfy me.

  18. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Giliell:

    Sadly, no cookies for feminists, ’cause we’re also fat ;)

    Screw that.
    Ya’ll want a cookie?
    I’ll bake them.
    Just be prepared to scrape the burnt bottoms off.

  19. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Life’s little ironies. We just got approved for a home-equity line of credit, giving us a welcome cushion, and just received in the junk mail (both of us) an offer for the same from the bank. The shredder is getting full (burp).

  20. says

    Tony, I’m in the same sort of boat you’re in, with the same sort of emotional baggage, and as soon as I’m in a place to help you can count on me for help if you still need it.

    As far as Loftus… I make fun, but I almost feel sorry for him, his behavior and attitude are so fucking pathetic. He reminds me of “comedy legend” Gallagher, who used to matter a tiny little bit a long time ago, and whose imagined past stature grows bigger and bigger as he becomes less and less relevant.

  21. Alukonis, metal ninja says

    OW dammit Gretchen I made it like two paragraphs into that and my brain broke OW.

    I think you deserve cookies just to take the awful taste out of your brain.

  22. Chelydra says

    Anyone know what species of turtle that is? I’m thinking golden thread turtle/stripe-necked turtle (Mauremys sinensis), an endangered Chinese species. And what about the butterflies?

  23. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Giliell:
    Oh, well, you’re *really* strange :)
    (coming from a guy who tries to slightly burn his popcorn, I guess that means next to nothing)
    ****
    That makes me wonder:
    I’m sure we all have things that we think are strange or weird or unique to us. I’m curious about you folks.
    I’ve mentioned my slightly burnt popcorn, talking to frogs, and crying when incredibly angry.
    What do ya’ll have?

  24. says

    Gretchen, I couldn’t read that whole thing before getting too pissed off. You need cookies and a glass of milk and maybe an adult beverage of your choice.

  25. Rey Fox says

    I’m gonna make dinner now, and it’s going to be tuna in white sauce on toast. Because I’m a master gourmand.

  26. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Joe:
    Thank you good sir.

    re: Loftus-I really don’t “get” him. When he was here at FtB, I think I read a few of his posts. I’ve read a little bit about his opinions of FtB and I just don’t really understand his position. Does he not agree with the approach many bloggers (in this network) have of ‘in your face’ atheism? Is he a “let’s hold hands and work out our problems with believers” type person?

  27. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    You need cookies and a glass of milk and maybe an adult beverage of your choice.

    The swill served at the Pharyngula Saloon and Spanking Parlor runs the gamut from what looks like organic milk to 180 proof rum. In a dirty looking but sterilized glass of course.

    Tony, a small cask of one-day-old grog od headed your way via Pullet Patrol Trebuchet Transport™. Expect a thud on your roof momentarily. Let it age to your satisfaction, or sip daily.

  28. IndyM, pikčiurna says

    Gotta vent. Just read one of the stupidest comments on Facebook I’ve ever seen:

    Oh and just saying, I’ve never known a person able to actually prove science!! Do you??

    My friend posted a link to the story on that Republican Asshole Senator, Stacey Campfield, and she called him out on his utter idiocy. A total conservative wingnut we both went to high school with came on to spew her nonsense. (Note: this wingnut defriended me months ago, much to my great joy. She was the biggest bully in our high school class of 800 people, and I never had anything to do with her [I was in the nerd crowd]. Anyway, she friended everyone she could from high school. I felt sorry for her and let her friend me; I hoped she might learn something, but she’s set in her ignorant ways.)

    And here’s another delightful quote from her earlier in the thread:

    Sorry science isn’t my thing. God is. And I am a firm believer in the, born this way syndrome. There’s nuts on both sides. So you can believe your a mounds and I’m an almond joy but I ll be thinking the same of you!! That’s what makes politics fun. I hate no one. Not in my blood… I was born this way. Love my neighbors even if their almond joys!!

    I bit my tongue bloody and didn’t engage. It was my friend’s post, and I simply had NO MORE PATIENCE LEFT. How can people be so UTTERLY STUPID…?

    Oh, and Tony–I’m unemployed, too. Lost my job after 12 years. I had a horrible boss there who made my life a living hell every day. It’s nice to have this break and to be free of her, but I find myself questioning my worth, and sometimes losing my confidence. It’s just like Giliell said re the psychological stages of unemployment. Just keep believing in yourself–I’m sure something will come along. That’s what I keep telling myself. Hang in there. :)

  29. opposablethumbs says

    Joe, I just went and voted for your guitar – then realised I probably didn’t do it right, as I voted once in each selection instead of for just one … sorry! Hope you’re soon enjoying the guitar anyway!

    Tony that is so hard. I wish I could do something useful :((( I hope you get this new gig, though – I bet you would be really great at anything like this, because you are so good at talking with people! Fingers crossed for you – when will you hear?

  30. says

    Janine:

    Ms. Daisy Cutter, perhaps this will be gothic enough for you.

    Hee.

    Beatrice:

    I like my bacon accompanied with something worthy of its magnificence.

    I just had a BLT on one of those “ancient grains” breads. The bacon and arugula were organic, and the tomato was slices of a big juicy fucker from a farmer’s market.

    Portia:

    I…what? You would think [National Review] would have at least included the fact that RMoney has two Harvard degrees to Obama’s one. I mean, if we’re talking status. /gag.

    Yabbut, edumacashun makes you an out-of-touch elitist. Right?

    Gah, Joe. Hang in there.

    Giliell:

    So, why the fuck does somebody who hasn’t done biology since highschool (aka me) know more about this than my friend’s pediatrician who told her that her son very likely inherited his colourblindness from his paternal grandfather?

    /facepalm

    I thought ob/gyns who hadn’t heard of Essure (this was in 2006) and doctors in general who don’t bother to warn patients about antibiotic/birth control interactions were bad enough.

    Ohhh, seems like Loftus is starting his own “true skeptical” blog network with such prolific writers like bluharmony!

    AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Gretchen, the splash screen begging for money over the blogpost itself meant I couldn’t read most of it, not that I was missing anything going by the parts I could read. What a charmer, on all counts.

    Tony: So many hugs. More than a few of us have been there. And Giliell is right, unemployment is a huge blow to one’s self-esteem and mental health.

    Loftus is just an egomaniac, as far as I can tell.

  31. A. Noyd says

    Giliell (#9)

    Ohhh, seems like Loftus is starting his own “true skeptical” blog network with such prolific writers like bluharmony!

    That’s contradictory. How can it be “his own” network when he’s inviting bluharmony? Everything she gets involved in has to be all about her.

  32. says

    opposablethumbs,

    You voted right, I’m doing rounds of different types of guitars, and then I’m going to do one last round of the winners of each individual round… and then I’m going to buy whatever my wife tells me to. :)

  33. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Thank you to everyone for the kind words and support. Between that, the positive reaction of my parents, and the developing relationship I’m in, I have stuff to be happy about.
    ****

    opposablethumbs:
    Not sure when I’ll hear back. From what I’ve seen, restaurants/bars only call you when they want to hire you. I’ll wait a few days and see (while thumping the pavement more).

  34. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Improbable Joe, a small cask of grog headed your way too. Took a while to reposition the Intercontinental Trebuchet, as the Pullets took a dinner break (the grog soaked corn for desert didn’t help either).

  35. says

    Esteleth @16 said:

    Having read the linked piece about autism and feminism, all I can say is that as a feminist who IS on the autism spectrum, that d00d is a shitstain.

    I hope I didn’t sound like I was disparaging people on the spectrum in saying I was “accused” of being on it. That guy doesn’t have the first clue about autism; seems to think it means “lacks my magical ability to know that women I find sexually titillating are also anti-feminists, because I would never, ever find a feminist titillating!”

  36. David Marjanović says

    Tony, *hugs* Dirty little secret: there aren’t any jobs at all anymore, except in Angola. Not getting a job hardly depends on you!

    And now, everyone, sign the petition to the Secretary of State of Ohio, the very white Republican Jon Husted, to reinstate early voting. “In Ohio, where the stakes couldn’t be higher, the Republican Party isn’t even trying to hide its intentions. This past Sunday, one of Gov. John Kasich’s closest advisers declared that election officials like himself should not “accommodate the urban – read African American – voter-turnout machine,” essentially admitting that their strategy is to limit African Americans’ ability to vote. On Friday, Republican Secretary of State Jon Husted suspended and now may fire two election board members for the offense of – imagine this – seeking to expand access to the polls.” (People for the American Way)

    So you can believe your a mounds and I’m an almond joy

    What, if anything, does that mean? ~:-|

    That’s contradictory. How can it be “his own” network when he’s inviting bluharmony? Everything she gets involved in has to be all about her.

    Heh.

  37. says

    David Marjanović,

    What, if anything, does that mean? ~:-|

    Chocolate coated, coconut flavored candy bars. Only difference between the two is one has almonds.

    “Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t” is the marketing slogan.

  38. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    Josh, happy birthday! I saw your post about being 38, but totally over-interpreted it and missed the birthday angle.

    60 here and 38 now seems the first blush of distant youth. Hope you are happy and healthy for many many years and find something wonderful in each one.

    Also, I have a very fun app I would like to email you for the new phone. May I use the spokesgay email?

  39. says

    Tony:

    Just be prepared to scrape the burnt bottoms off.

    *rolls up sleeves*
    *ahem* ‘Scuse me, Tony!
    *rummages around in cupboards*

    Stand back, everyone! One chunky feminist coming through with cookie raw materials and whatnot. Your choices are: chocolate chip, oatmeal with pecans and dark chocolate pieces, black currant thumb prints, &/or brownies with marshmallow.

    *Offer only available to fat, ugly, man-hatin’ feminazis and their emasculated, mangina havin’ allies. Nice Guys™ and Chill Girls™ need not apply.

  40. chigau (違う) says

    The Operations Manager looks (and sounds) like a young Jamie Hyneman (lacking the beret) and is every bit as ana attentive to detail.

  41. says

    Giliell

    I have a terrible confession to make: I kind of like slightly burnt stuff.

    Is there a support group for this? I much prefer the crispy/burnt end of the spectrum.

    Tony:

    What do ya’ll have?

    Um…besides liking burnt everything cookies? I stop the microwave at 3 seconds. I can’t stand hard butter.

    Re: Current Life Circumstances. That’s so not fun. I’m very happy you have such lovely people for parents, and that you vented. I understand the feeling of failure. I wish I had more to offer than “It will pass.” Grog and hugs, perhaps?

    Ms.Daisy Cutter

    Yabbut, edumacashun makes you an out-of-touch elitist. Right?

    Oh durn I fergawt! The two degrees are actually a liability. Good thing middle class/poor people are trained to blame other poor people for their troubles. /Snark

    A. Noyd

    Everything she gets involved in has to be all about her.

    Zing!

    Joe:

    I voted. Best of luck in the selection. I’m honored to have participated :D

  42. says

    *raises hand* oooh I’m man-hatin’!! I also make a hobby emasculating and castrating men at every opportunity. No consensual flirting allowed in my presence. Have I earned one of your amazing-sounding oatmeal cookies with pecans and dark chocolate pieces? Recipe, please?

    I’m currently baking peach/apple crisp, the filling for which I picked off the trees today. It smells cinnamonly delicious.

  43. a3kr0n says

    Tony •King of the Hellmouth• @11
    Improbable Joe @24
    I was there about a 1 1/2 years ago. Let go after ten years by my “new” boss. Life can suck scissors sometimes. Today I have a job I love for a company that makes agricultural equipment, and I recently heard my old “new” boss was physically walked out by the owner for whatever reason. Fortunately I didn’t have to ask mom and dad for money (this time), but then again, I quit drinking about 15 years ago meaning I had saved quite a bit of money! Still, I have days…

  44. says

    I had a plastic baggie with some crochet stuff in it at one of my local atheist meet-ups. My friend decided to stick a name tag on it.

    She wrote this one the name tag: “baby-killing feminist witch (& atheist)”

    Yes, my friends are awesome.

  45. says

    Audley, thank you.

    You bake the way I do. Ad hoc to the max. My SO’s preteen daughter helped me make the crisp and I was like “Eh, just add a bit of this and that…”

  46. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    Baking is such a gestalt experience. I find it works best for me if I just imagine what I want to eat and then put stuff into the mix. If it seems to go, it will.

    Mind you, this is after carefully following recipes while I learned what would go with what. I barely remember that period, but my sister told me she had one of my cookbooks from back when and found a recipe I must have used as a base because the relevant page had cinnamon all over the place. All of a sudden, I remembered trying stuff as a teen. Now, cooking seems natural, but it’s not.

    Still, adding things, leaving things out, thinking, oh I know! and then serving up something everyone loves. It’s such a good feeling.

  47. otrame says

    @27

    Tony,

    I like peanut butter, lettuce, and mayo sandwiches.

    Oh, and I always tear up when I am very very angry. It is a real problem. It’s one of the reasons why I avoid confrontations.

  48. Ava, Oporornis maledetta says

    KaH, #11: I have been in the same boat. I can tell you that beating yourself over the head (Why can’t I keep a job, etc. etc.) only adds needlessly to one’s suffering. If you find yourself starting to indulge in that, turn to something else immediately.

    Job loss, inlcuding undeserved loss, can happen to anyone. It happened to me; I was thrown under the bus to protect a corrupt and abusive treasurer of the organization. I was falsely and maliciously accused of wrongdoing and given NO due process, just canned, by the treasurer’s friend, the org. president, who was unwilling to investigate his old chum. I was devastated not only by the job loss but by the injustice. I know other people unfairly fired, and they’re great at what they do. It was hard to realize that many people in the work world are a-holes, and some of them have powr over you. If you burden yourself with the thought that it’s a reflection on your worth as a human being, you could go into a downward spiral.

    I’m still inteviewing after almost two years. It’s brutal in my field, and trying to go outside it means competing with people more closely related to the new field. It’s not easy to stay positive. Looking at want ads is depressing for me. But i know to recognize beating on myself as a trigger, and try not to respond to the trigger.

    A veteran therapist once told me that all therapy is pattern interruption. If one can learn one’s own patterns and interrupt/disrupt the negative ones, one’s outlook and hence feelings will improve dramatically.

    Good luck with the job, etc. Your parents are good eggs.

  49. Ava, Oporornis maledetta says

    All the nyms look garbled on my screen tonight, I don’t know why. Sorry if your nym isn’t KaH.

  50. says

    Still, adding things, leaving things out, thinking, oh I know! and then serving up something everyone loves. It’s such a good feeling.

    That’s why I do it. The warm fuzzies of serving it up. I am still working on the mastering the bases part. Which is why I mostly do stuff that’s pretty forgiving, like a fruit crisp or fudge or truffles. (As opposed to angel food cake. Which is I think is sensitive to proportions. But it may just be my perception).

  51. says

    I like peanut butter, lettuce, and mayo sandwiches.

    Whoa, that’s just unnatural.
    Me, I like banana/cheese omelets. This dates back roughly 30 years, when a friend threw some banana chunks in with her scrambled eggs, on a whim. Damn, it was good.

  52. otrame says

    @ feralboy12

    Of course it’s unnatural. I’ve been a weirdo all my life. When I was in elementary school I was often accused of using big words.

    I can’t stand peanut butter with anything sweet for sandwiches.

    Cookies, now, are a different story. I love me some peanut butter cookies.

  53. rowanvt says

    I am having a not-so-good animal month.

    One of the snakes I got from a pet store 9 months ago came up cryptosporidium serpentis positive. It’s a critter related to coccidia, but there is no treatment and most of the tests on living animals are fairly inaccurate with a high risk of false positives.

    Heck went through a 3 month quarantine before I put him in my general hatchling rack system. So now ALL my hatchlings and juveniles that are down the feeding “line” from him are going to be euthanised, and all of my adults are on pet-only status.

    I’m having to put down 13 snakes, all of which I have hatched here. I’m completely heartbroken. The only upside is that I got in contact with UC Davis’ veterinary program and they want my snakes to check them for crypto post-mortem, and if any are positive, they are going to isolate the organism and try to develop a serpentis-specific PCR.

    I don’t know what I want to hear more: None of the animals had the organism, which means my adults are safe… but the babies were needlessly euthanised (though they’d be either way), or yes they found the organism and can begin developing a test so I can figure out who, if any, of my adults are carriers.

    But I’m still not looking forward to Monday and the spree of euths. :/

  54. Nutmeg says

    Caine, I’m sorry about Zoe and Carrot. The way you take care of all of your critters is inspiring. *scritches* for Mallory. Do rats like bellyrubs?

    Tony, I hope the job hunt goes well.

    ***

    Got back from BC last night. Managed not to kill any of my relatives = success.

    I’m having one of those “my government has destroyed all the funding for my career path and I will never have a fulfilling career or even be able to pay the bills in a way that doesn’t make me miserable” days. Does anyone, anywhere, have any evidence of funding or job availability in conservation, evolution, ecology, or the environment? Or advice for a grad student who’s beginning to think that switching to medical research is the only way she’ll have a viable career? Or anything cheerful on the internet?

  55. ImaginesABeach says

    So, I’ve been thinking a lot about this and I’m sure I’m missing something. It’s related to abortion, so I don’t know if I should bring it up here or if I need to take it to the Thunderdome, but I’m a little afraid of the Thunderdome.

    I’m gonna post it here – but if anyone thinks I should take it there, I will.

    For years, anti-abortion people have gotten away with saying that abortion should only be allowed to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.

    Why are we letting them get away with not saying what they really mean – abortion is bad because it lets women get away with having sex without consequences? That’s what they are saying, that women who are raped are innocent and shouldn’t be punished. Women who have sex for fun should be punished.

    Why don’t we push politicians on this? Why don’t we ask them what justification they have for allowing some abortions but not others? If the objection to abortion is based on the belief that abortion kills a human being, what ethical justification can they offer to allow the killing of a human being who is essentially a bystander to the crime that was committed? If people could see what is really under the anti-abortion position, don’t you think a good dose of reality would show people what these people really think of women?

  56. says

    Howard Bloom is a nut. I just thought I would point that out because his ads are showing up on this site all the time. I know you don’t screen them. Anyway I only know what I read in the Amazon book preview was totally nuts. He thinks information theory is wrong!

  57. says

    Rowanvt, I am so sorry. *hugses*

    Nutmeg:

    Caine, I’m sorry about Zoe and Carrot. The way you take care of all of your critters is inspiring. *scritches* for Mallory. Do rats like bellyrubs?

    Yes, they do. Belly kisses even!

  58. Nutmeg says

    portia: Thanks. I love ATIAC.

    ImaginesABeach: Maybe, but what would we do without a place to vent? I’ve considered taking a break from all non-mandatory internet use, because so much of the world is depressing. But there are so many things on the internet that I would miss, and it’s not like the problems would go away if I didn’t pay attention to them.

  59. James Stuby says

    Did anyone see this article on the Higgs boson, where the author taunts militant atheists?

    Here is a stand-out quote: “For those who cannot follow the mathematics, belief in the Higgs is an act of faith, not of rationality.”

    Not really. We have heard this kind of shit before. It is rational to have a belief in the Higgs because physicists have been right about so many things in the universe. It is true it is a theoretical construct, but it is testable, has been tested, and has stood up to the high-tech tests designed to probe it. If I had only faith in the Higgs, and a test disproved it, I would still go on believing in it.

  60. cicely says

    Probably in some generations to come somebody might wonder why their little boy really thinks that frogs are red, should they decide to reproduce.

    Or spot a bright red cardinal perched in a fully leafed-out tree.

    I have a friend who’s red/green colorblind. It’s breathtaking, some of the clothes combos that look all right to him.

    *hugs* and, if needed, *kleenex* for Tony. These are just sucky times to be looking for a job, for pretty much everybody. Hope you get this gig.
    And your parents deserve *hugs* as well.

    Boring Anecdote Warning
    This business with your last employer claiming that your till kept coming up irregular kinda reminds me of an incident in my own sordid past. I worked night shift at a convenience store (solo, but this was just before they started calling ’em “Stop ‘n’ Robs”; in fact, it was later that same year that our area had it’s first convenience store robbery combined with kidnapping (of the solo employee), rape and murder), and all of my managers previous to this one had been very, very pleased that my till always counted out right, and that my gas charges were always correctly accounted for; they had me working out the sheets for the other shifts as well. Come the next change of managers (mind you, this guy was #4 for the year, not counting a managerless 2 weeks during which the regional management had to cover it), the new guy asked me to be assistant manager, which I declined. (I was trying to take college classes, and managers were particularly bad here for leaving the assistants holding the sack at unscheduled times, which would not be good for class attendance.) The very next day, he told me he was going to have to let me go…because my till was “way off”, and I allegedly had several gas drive-offs.

    It was petty, but I consoled myself that come inventory time, that sucker was never gonna come right…because he’d never find where we (meaning the 2-previous manager and I) stored hundreds of dollars worth of supplies on top of the ceiling tiles.
    /Boring Anecdote

    Luckily those were better economic times, and I got a job the next week.

    Joe, I just went and voted for your guitar – then realised I probably didn’t do it right, as I voted once in each selection instead of for just one … sorry!

    Wait…are we supposed to be considering them all in one string? I thought this was the “thin the herd” round, and that we were to pick one out of each set! Joe????

    Whew!

    Are you fucking kidding me. Rapists can assert custody and visitation rights to the child they conceived through rape?

    *quease*
    That is so sick.

    Now, cooking seems natural, but it’s not.

    Damned straight, it’s not! Cookin’ skillz—I duzn’t haz it.

    *hugs* for rowanvt.

    If people could see what is really under the anti-abortion position, don’t you think a good dose of reality would show people what these people really think of women?

    All I can do is point out that a lot of those who are pushing the anti-abortion side, are anti-contraception as well. They aren’t interested in having their smoke screen blown away.

  61. Patricia, OM says

    Belly kisses.

    Who doesn’t like belly kisses? *peers over glasses*

    When I was still a Pattycakes, my mom & grandpa would give me raspberry belly kisses, there’s some squealgood fun!

  62. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    James Stuby

    Here is a stand-out quote: “For those who cannot follow the mathematics, belief in the Higgs is an act of faith, not of rationality.”

    This stuff always drives me mad. If you, alone and without a calculator, cannot do the math to prove the existence of the Higgs and also apply said math to the data, then YOU ARE A MERE BELIEVER AND JUST LIKE EVERYONE RELIGIOUS. You are not allowed to consider the extensive literature in the field, the thousands of reviews and articles, the fact that the theory has predicted many things which are also in play, the views of thousands of scientists. Nope. None of that! You have to do it yourself or you are just religious.

    Does this guy do his own science before he takes an aspirin? Before he starts a car? Turns on a computer? And even if he did not, it works doesn’t it? Just because it is complex, doesn’t make acceptance of the fact of it religious. Just because it is simple, doesn’t make it true.

    Although I for one, am completely down with the easter bunny. And maybe the tooth fairy. Even though someone told me all that chocolate was making my teeth fall out. That’s clearly just a conspiracy theory.

  63. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Thanks for all the birthday wishes everyone. Lyn M, you never have to ask to email me; it’s an open door:)

    Birfday Activities:

    1. Blew off work

    2. Paid bills and balanced bank accounts

    3. Went and got smart phone (Galaxy Nexus, btw)

    4. Bought presents for kittehs. An automated laser toy that plays itself, and cat nip mice.

    5. Got the biggest plate of gyros and falafel ever

  64. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    Josh

    You rock! That was a varied birthday indeed.

    And the asking about the email was for two reasons. *Ahem* What is it again?

    I am sending you a funny app that really works and I hope will amuse you.

  65. says

    Imaginesabeach:

    Why don’t we push politicians on this? Why don’t we ask them what justification they have for allowing some abortions but not others? If the objection to abortion is based on the belief that abortion kills a human being, what ethical justification can they offer to allow the killing of a human being who is essentially a bystander to the crime that was committed?

    Look at the Republican party’s current platform– they want a fetal personhood amendment added to the Constitution. They don’t want to allow for exemptions in the cases of rape/incest/life of the pregnant woman, but until now it’s been political suicide to say otherwise.

    The New York Times:

    Historians and other experts on abortion politics say the no-exceptions idea became part of the debate virtually as soon as Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in 1973. “It has deep roots,” said Donald Critchlow, a historian at Arizona State University who has studied abortion politics. He added, “It’s appealing to segments within the Republican Party to show that you’re pro-life.”

    Susan Cohen, director of government affairs for the Guttmacher Institute, a research group in Washington that supports abortion rights, said the no-exceptions idea is “not new and it’s not fringe.”

    “It is something that has been part of mainstream anti-abortion movement,” she said. “The record is replete with evidence of the fact that there was this no-exceptions attitude, and of course this makes logical sense from the perspective of people who believe an embryo should have the same legal status as you and I do.”

    In the 1992 election, the Republican Party included in its platform language opposing abortion, allowing no exceptions and calling for a constitutional amendment to make abortion illegal. Similar language opposing any exceptions was included in 2000 and 2004, even though George W. Bush also supported outlawing abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or when the life of the woman was in danger.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/us/politics/todd-akin-controversy-may-hurt-republican-chances.html?pagewanted=all

    Personally, I’m willing to bet that it’s the Democrats who insist on rape exemptions (instead of fighting for abortion access for all women), but I haven’t yet backed up my gut feeling on this.

  66. says

    Pretty ‘rupt, but
    @Josh
    Happy birthday

    @Joe, Tony, Ava, Oporornis maledetta, I totally know the feeling. I just got a job after about a year of not even getting interviews, I was totally feeling the depression, feelings of worthlessness, etc. You just gotta remind yourself that it’s not your fault, however much it can feel like it. Also, congrats on the new bf, Tony. Hope it works out for you.

    @Snakes and rats.
    Snuggles to the rats, pets for the snakes. So sorry tot hear that the snakes aren’t able to be saved, though.

  67. rowanvt says

    Yes. It is unfortunately a nasty parasite. Some can go *years* without clinical signs, but when they show up … The snake will regurgitate its meals because the lining of the stomach becomes so inflamed that the food doesn’t fit. It’s a death sentence at that point. This is why I’m so desperate to work out a test with the people at UC Davis.

  68. chigau (違う) says

    Yesterday I touched a rock that is (the geologist told me) 4.2 billion years old.

  69. Patricia, OM says

    Happy Bday Josh! I’d send you some kimchi, but it’s still in the only smelling rotten stage. *grin*

  70. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Patricia, you should send it to him anyways. Imagine the reactions of his neighbors.

    So worth it.

  71. anteprepro says

    Richard Carrier has done that before on a different thread (once again due to his usage of “lame”). He claims to oppose ableism but has a very high threshold for what he considers an “ableist slur”.

  72. Wowbagger, Antipodean Dervish says

    Hmm, Richard Carrier does seem to be a bit more about the ideological purity (for want of a better term) of Atheism+ than anyone else I’ve read.

  73. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Josh:
    Happy Birthday my good man.
    I second the query:
    Where is the obligatory birthday debauchery?

    ****
    chigau:
    Did it feel awesome to touch that rock?

    ****

    rowanvt:
    Sorry to hear about your snakes. Having to euthanize one animal must be tough, but multiple? Damn.

    ****

    Are we doing belly rubs now?
    Hugs and Rubs? {out of the gutter Louis}

  74. Patricia, OM says

    Janine, when you’re right, you’re right.

    Josh – Stand away from the Jefferies Tubes! Kimchi in the rotten smelling, block clearing stage of fermentation ready to jettison into your living room.

    Happy birthday!

  75. Patricia, OM says

    Tony.King of the Hellmouth.

    How dare you insinuate that Louis should vacate the gutter! His best harem of sows wallow there in mud baths of grog & swill. Louis has a fine and well known reputation for his fidelity & uxorious habits with his lovely young gilts and shoats. Fie on you for suggesting such insidious behaviour to a virtuous sow humper sow herder like our Louis. *SNORT*

  76. rowanvt says

    Hmmn. I never really thought of ‘lame’ as being an ableist slur before. That’s probably because most of my experience with lameness is in the form of temporary conditions. Sprains, ACL tears, soft tissue injuries, etc in the animals I work with. I myself am currently a little ‘lame’ after whacking the top of my bare foot into a concrete edge on accident.

  77. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    I heart you so much for mentioning Jeffries Tubes, Patricia.

    I just hope I don’t hit my head on a GNDN pipe.

  78. says

    Setár, self-appointed Elf-Sheriff of the FreethoughtBlogs Star Chamber,

    I have a comment in moderation in response to Richard.

    I’m not familiar with the rules of that particular space and don’t know if I broke one or three hundred – so I’m not sure it’ll survive.

    Regardless, this is what I said (drunkenly):

    ***

    Richard:

    Likewise words like “retarded”: when I call someone or something retarded, I am not referring to actual mental disability or the actually mentally disabled. I am therefore not commenting on them. Therefore I cannot be slurring them. If I called a mentally disabled person a “retard!” then I’d be using a slur.

    Context changes the meaning of words. This is a basic fact of language.

    Maybe you can give a little more context to clarify this. Standing alone as it is, what I see is you claiming that calling someone retarded isn’t referring to mental disability or the mentally disabled.

    What, precisely, is it referring to?

    “You are retarded” standing alone seems, to me at least, to be by fucking necessity making a comparison between the person you are speaking to and the mentally disabled – and doing so with the implicit intention to disparage them by comparison.

    I’d be nice if you’d elaborate. Because as you’ve put it I see no difference from:

    “Likewise words like ‘nigger’: when I call someone or something nigger, I am not referring to actual black skin or the actually black-skinned. I am therefore not commenting on them. Therefore I cannot be slurring them. If I called a black person a “nigger!” then I’d be using a slur.

    Context changes the meaning of words. This is a basic fact of language.”

    I suppose you could qualify and say that you simply mean that the person you are calling retarded is “delayed or held back in terms of progress or development” in some general way that isn’t quite, you know, the whole “actually retar… err, mentally disabled” kind of way.

    But then, I can’t count how many times I’ve heard someone say “I don’t mean ningger in a racist way… I just mean, ya’ know, ‘ignorant’ – even white people can be niggers, see.”

    Because, context and all that.

    So, maybe you can help disabuse me of my misunderstanding concerning your argument.

    ***

    I was pretty aggressive, I guess. But *shrug*

  79. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Caine, I’m so sorry to hear about Zoe and Carrot. I know their lives will be the best possible under your loving care. Please give them scritches and belly rubs from me. (I’m also very sad I’m too late to have a virtual rat of mine own.) ♥

    Josh, Happy Birthday! *birthday hug*

    Tony, *hugs* and good luck with your job search.

    rowanvt, my condolences regarding your snakes. I know how hard that must be for you. *hugs*

    cicely, *pouncehug* if you’re around but if you’re not, it will be patiently waiting for your return before it strikes. =^_^=

  80. says

    Oh, and happy birthday, Josh.

    (I’m terrible at the holiday/special day stuff and actually have to kind of grit my teeth to acknowledge them… so it took me awhile to join in on the well wishes. :D )

  81. lexie says

    Tony – goodluck for the job searching

    Josh – Happy Birthday

    Rowanvt – That must be awful, I’m so sorry for you hugs, chocolate and whatever else you wish for as comfort food/drink. I really hope that they do get some useful results and can develop a PCR.

    Horde Question
    Firstly I’m sorry for asking this because I’m new and have no right really to take up your time so please feel free to ignore all of this. If you are still reading thanks, I’ve been confused about what to do and suffice to say that most people in my life wouldn’t actually help with this so I can’t ask them. I’m very embarrassed to have to ask for this but I’ve been wondering about this for some time and was hoping people might be able to help me. I grew up a conservative Christian and still haven’t told my school friends/acquaintances that I’m an atheist. I was out with some school friends and acquaintances about two weeks ago and one of my friends (liberal Christian) said that if there was anything she would go out into the streets to protest in favour of it would be marriage equality. This provoked a very large row as several others in the group don’t agree with homosexuality. I tried very hard to explain that it’s not a choice and explain some of the factors involved with sexual orientation. After I had listed a couple of studies she seemed to give up on refuting my studies with anecdotes, and said that she DOESN”T BELIEVE IN STATISTICS (I normally don’t capitalise but I want to convey some of my astonishment). She’s a science student, so I called her on it and said did she think that all of the scientific studies were worthless. She then kind of qualified it by saying that she meant studies looking at people. I kind of gave up at this point because the fact that someone could think that epidemiology and other fields looking at people are worthless was kind of beyond me and I couldn’t think of anyway of convincing anyone of anything if they don’t believe in statistics. I did do a bit of explaining that it’s study design which determines if a study has decent generalizable results, but I was so gobsmacked that I was more opening and closing my mouth like a goldfish lost for words than actually saying a decent argument. So I need advice, what approaches do people find valuable for trying to convince people that sexual orientation is innate? How do you combat a statement that someone doesn’t believe in statistics? Am I a horrible person for continuing to see my old friends? Should I not see any of them anymore because a couple are bigoted, some of them aren’t? What should I do?

    Thanks

  82. Patricia, OM says

    lexie – You’re fine. Saying she doesn’t believe in statistics is a common practice of denial that my therapist says is a form of deflection.

    If that helps.

  83. Patricia, OM says

    I’m off to bed. As Nerd mentioned, the entire flock of Pullets ™ is hanging upside down from tree branches, totally besotted, with gaping peckers and limp wattles. So I have to gather them up & gently set them on the roost. The poor little virginal chicks, I’ve told them time after time that scrambled eggs just don’t sell. *shakes head*

    Goodnight sweethearts!

  84. says

    Good morning

    I had a plastic baggie with some crochet stuff in it at one of my local atheist meet-ups. My friend decided to stick a name tag on it.

    She wrote this one the name tag: “baby-killing feminist witch (& atheist)”

    Yes, my friends are awesome.

    hehehe

    baking
    I remember when, as a teen, I asked my gran for her cheesecake recipe, She started “you take flour”.
    Me: “How much?”
    She “Well, enough!”

    Ava

    A veteran therapist once told me that all therapy is pattern interruption. If one can learn one’s own patterns and interrupt/disrupt the negative ones, one’s outlook and hence feelings will improve dramatically.

    You better believe that.
    I can it “looking over my own shoulder”, because I have to watch myself like, you know a teacher would watch a student doing an important task.
    It’s also embarasing when you suddenly notice the stupid shit you’ve been doing.

    rowan
    Oh fuck that’s bad. I’m so sorry :(

    nutmeg
    I only have hugs

    imaginesabeach

    Why are we letting them get away with not saying what they really mean – abortion is bad because it lets women get away with having sex without consequences?

    I thought we were?
    Or did you by “we” mean that campaigns should argue more about that. I remember that we criticised the focus on abortions in case of rape excemptions before, because it frames the whole debate by basically admitting that an abortion is a bad thing.

    cicely
    My dad isn’t completely red/green colourblind, but it has long been a habit of the other family-members to put out his clothes for more important occasions. The 1950’s must have been a dull period in Germany, because it was only noticed when he wanted to go to sea as a teen and they told him that “really, if you can’t tell us what flag is up we can’t take you”.

    ++++

    Hmmn. I never really thought of ‘lame’ as being an ableist slur before.

    I think my understanding of it was tainted by the German equivalent which has shifted further than the English. Something that’s “lame” in German isn’t in any way broken, injured* or slower than the average, but inbuilt slow. My car is lame. It’s not broken, it just has a small engine for its size.
    I would classify it like “idiot”
    *unless you’re a horse
    Likewise I had to adjust my feelings about English “demented”, because there the German equivalent refers solely to the illness.

  85. ChasCPeterson says

    Only difference between the two is one has almonds.

    you are WOTI!!!!!!!!

    Mounds is dark chocolate. Delicious, bitter, dark chocolate.
    Almond Joy is sweet, cloying milk chocolate.
    (USAan terminology)

    This makes all the difference!

  86. obscure1 says

    I have asked this question once before in a previous lounge and I apologize if someone answered it and I missed it. Does anyone know when PZ’s book is coming out?

  87. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    I’m late as always but here it goes:

    Happy Birthday Josh!

    rowan, I’m so sorry about your pets. That’s terrible and heartbreaking. =(

    I’m another person that never thought of lame as an ablist slur. That does makes sense though considering the original meaning and all. I’ve only heard it as “this show is lame”, as another way of saying bad. I’ll keep that in mind.

  88. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Almond Joy is sweet, cloying milk chocolate.
    (USAan terminology)

    Almost all USAnian milk-chocolate is an overly sugared, under-chocolated treacly mess. We suffer from bad-quality “chocolate.”

  89. emburii says

    Tony, good luck on your job searching. I just had to ask family for money as well, so I fully understand how humiliating it is.

  90. emburii says

    Rowan, I’m sorry to hear about your snakes. It doesn’t sound like there’s a good answer either way, but at least their endings can go towards that test and maybe help other ophidians in the future?

    Happy birthday, Josh!

    Nutmeg, I cannot confirm the existence of any such jobs. :( I’m sorry. But I can confirm the existence of good wishes, backpats, or hugs if you’re comfortable with them. :p

  91. says

    ChasCPeterson,

    FUCK!

    I had a nagging feeling there was something else. I hesitated before I hit submit, then said fuckitI’mlazy.

    Heh, I stand corrected.

  92. KG says

    A retrospective happy birthday to Josh!

    Commiserations to all those out of work and looking for new jobs. The psychological pressures on top of financial worries (I am sure even more acute in the US where you can no longer afford to have health problems) must be truly awful. I chose to leave my job, I am, Ms. KG’s said to an enquiring friend, “uncrumpling before my eyes”, and I’ve still had occasional dreams in which I am exposed as useless.

    On His Royal Highness Prince Harry, I see there has been some confusion: it is of course the photographs that are unclothed (and after all, don’t the headlines promise “naked photographs of Prince Harry”?). His Royal Highness was, of course, decorously dressed in his accustomed leisure wear, a Wehrmacht Afrika Corp desert uniform with swastika armband.

  93. KG says

    Oh, commiserations also to Caine and rowanvt.

    Richard Carrier? I’d read some of his stuff, but not much, before he arrived at FtB. The first post I read here was an unhinged rant against vegetarians. I haven’t been back.

  94. emburii says

    I’m actually a touch worried about a physiological issue and don’t have the money to go to a doctor, and any feedback people can give on when it will go away (and sorry if this is TMI)…let’s just say my cups runneth over, by about two sizes. And they hurt. I’m not pregnant unless some god is trying to start a religion on me (in which case abortion is about to become a holy sacrament), and I don’t think it’s the Big C. WebMD says it can be caused by too much caffeine (not drinking more of it than usual and the problem has persisted, so unlikely), stress (ohhhhh yes), and menstruation (…most likely culprit). Has anyone else had this problem? If so, when will they return to normal?

  95. KG says

    I never really thought of ‘lame’ as being an ableist slur before.

    I’d say it’s a borderline case: it’s not often used, at least in the UK, in its original sense: most people would say “X has a limp”, rather than “X is lame”, whether the condition was permanent or temporary. “Dumb” is much the same, although there I think the abandonment of the original sense has gone further in the US than the UK (although it’s been replaced by “mute” in medical terminology), and I personally would feel uncomfortable using it. But the nonsense with which Carrier attempts to justify his use of “retarded” as an insult is both absurd and contemptible.

  96. says

    KG,

    I’d say it’s a borderline case

    I consider that way as well. I was admonished for using the term here once, and so I cut it from my general use, but it’s still in that zone where I might casually let slip a “that was lame” unthinkingly.

    That’s why I focused on Richard’s defense of “retarded”. (Though how effectively or coherently I argued I won’t be able to judge until the whisky has worn off. )

  97. McC2lhu saw what you did there. says

    chigau (違う)@92

    Yesterday I touched a rock that is (the geologist told me) 4.2 billion years old.

    Hey, even better deal: You can touch yourself and cause much more excitement! Your own atoms are even older than 4.2 billion years old! ;)

    (I am just funnin’ ya. I get that frisson from old/space rock as well)

  98. says

    So, all the talks about baking made me decide to make grandma’s apple pockets.
    When I was a child at about this time of the year when the plums became ripe grandma would dedicate one day to making plum cake. She’d make a big batch of yeast dough and make plum cakes. Inevitably, at some point, she’d either run out of plums or not have enough dough left for a full cake. That’s when she’d make apple pockets: Halves or quarters of apples, raisins, sugar and cinnamon wrapped in the dough. Best apple pockets ever. I was later abhorred to find out what other people considered apple pockets: puff pastry and apple-sauce. bah.

  99. opposablethumbs says

    I don’t tend to use “lame” in the disparaging sense anyway, but now I come to think of it I do mostly associate it with a temporary condition – sprained ankle, pulled ligament, stone in the hoof etc. – rather than permanent or long-term disability. Obviously I won’t adopt it, though, since the ableist association exists (and now that it’s in my brain I’ll have to make an effort to remember not to use it).

    I have a terrible confession to make: I kind of like slightly burnt stuff.

    Is there a support group for this? I much prefer the crispy/burnt end of the spectrum.

    CBBs* are a Sam Vimes food group.

    * Crispy Burnt Bits

    A veteran therapist once told me that all therapy is pattern interruption. If one can learn one’s own patterns and interrupt/disrupt the negative ones, one’s outlook and hence feelings will improve dramatically.

    I should try this. I should

    When I was in elementary school I was often accused of using big words.

    Ooh, I had that! (not any more, though)

    rowanvt, I’m so SO sorry about the snakes. That must be heartbreaking when you put so much into looking after them. {{hugs}} if I may :(((

    And hang-in-there hugs to Tony. Sounds like you have really great parents – and yay for burgeoning new relationship!

  100. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    Giliell #135

    That’s when she’d make apple pockets: Halves or quarters of apples, raisins, sugar and cinnamon wrapped in the dough. Best apple pockets ever.

    That brings back memories. On my dad’s side (English) we made apple dumplings. Peel and core a medium-sized apple, fill the cored center with things you like (cinnamon, butter, chopped nuts, nutmeg, brown sugar, etc.) Enclose with pie crust. Remember to punch a few air holes in the top so steam can escape, bake for an hour or so. Crust should be golden and clearly baked through. Serve in a bowl with cream on top, or ice cream, as you like.

    Mmm-mmm-mmm. It’s amazing that anyone in my family weighs under a metric tonne.

  101. opposablethumbs says

    … baked cooking apples, the big sour ones (no crust), cored and stuffed with brown sugar, cinnamon and raisins … mmmmm!

  102. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    Yes, the two recipes sound very alike. We didn’t use custard, but I have had them that way elsewhere.

    I’m sorry but I have to say that the crust is obligatory in my family. You might as well try convincing them that you have a great home, just no roof.

  103. Louis says

    1) Rowanvt,

    Sorry to read about the snakes, as a former (and hopefully again in the future) snake keeper I feel your pain.

    2) Patricia, #109,

    I will have you know I was never convicted of humping sows. Your evil insidious strikethrough be damned!

    3) Tony,

    Gutter? Oh my dear fellow, you have no idea! :-)

    Good luck on the job search.

    Stop getting sacked, it’s a very naughty habit, instead try getting promoted….whaddya mean it’s not that simple? Oh you Americans, always making excuses, no stiff upper lip that’s your problem. Why during the war I had to survive on minus three jobs and I didn’t see a banana until 2037. I’m still on my first batch of powdered egg and my first ration book. And don’t get me started on those Polish people, coming over here with their work ethic, taking our jobs and not having the decency to be a bit foreign looking so we can be properly racist about them. It was so much easier in the old days when you knew who to be racist to. And the Gays. With their Agenda. Don’t get me started on them. It’s compulsory now. I saw one on television and I nearly had to have sex with him. Outrageous! Won’t people think of the horses? And women don’t know their place nowadays. I blame the dole bludgers stealing all our hard earned money. And commoners having 23 children just for the benefits, it lowers house prices. Gay women foreigners with 23 children coming over here taking our jobs and our women and being given a free taxpayer funded banana. If Winston Churchill could see it he’d turn in his grave.

    Louis

    P.S. Not sure what came over me. I filled the car up with petrol this morning, walked into the shop to pay for it and accidentally allowed my eyes to alight upon the front cover of the Daily Mail. I’ve felt a bit weird ever since.

  104. Louis says

    OH WOW! APPLE POCKETS!!!! I have to make those NOW!

    That will be tricky seeing I’m on the lab computer…maybe tonight will have to suffice.

    I have all the ingredients at home. Hmm I could purchase some cream on the way home and have enough left for the (incredibly fattening, proper full fat with double butter and extra sinfulness) carbonara I was planning to make this weekend…

    NO!!!!! MUST EAT TEH SALADD! MUST NOT HAS TEH CALORYS! MUST MASTURBATE SELF TO PERFECT SIZE 0 THINNNES AND HAS TEH MISERY OUTSIDE SANDWICXH SHOPS 4EVA!

    Louis

  105. says

    opposablethumbs
    It’s hard work breaking those patterns. The first thing ist to even figure them out because they’re just so subconscious. And then you have to watch yourself 24/7 because your monkey-brain doesn’t just stop doing them once you figured them out.
    They are like a dance. If you can dance something well, your conscious brain doesn’t have to say “put left foot over there, move hip like this”. The music starts and you do it. Patterns are just like that and before you notice it you’ve done it again.
    My pattern is to say “No thank you”, because who am I to get help. And I’m stupidly doing that all the time in the most trivial situations. Yesterday, when I left my friend’s house I had both arms full and hadn’t even “collected” the girls yet. And she offered me a plastic bag. You know, simple basic stuff of human niceness. And I caught myself before I said “No thank you, don’t bother”. Because it would be such a terrible burden on her to give me a plastic bag for the stuff.

  106. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    Giliell

    I’m beginning to wonder if we are twins or something. First the baked apple goodness, and then the no thank you thing. Hmmm.

    Recognizing patterns is indeed hard enough, and then stopping them. Tougher!

    I even say no thank you to myself sometimes. (Putting off doing something because it will “only” make me comfortable. Buying some little thing because it is “only” for fun or pretty or interesting. Whatever.) At the moment, I do two things. One is not that easy for others. I remind myself of the heart attack and try to decide if denying myself this thing is really a good plan. I also tell myself that it’s OK to be kind to myself. These things help me get perspective. What tends to trigger these feelings is if I am anxious about something. I also try to address the anxiety, but it is slippery. (But if I buy that [small object] and I get paid really late and my expenses go up and … THEN I won’t have enough money!) It sounds logical in my head, seriously. Identifying it is half the battle, and then there is acting on it.

    Good for you, Giliell, taking that bag is a good step.

  107. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    Picks up shapely buttocks. Glances around.

    So these are yours then?

  108. Louis says

    Shapely? No sorry, those aren’t mine. If you’d gone with “gigantic hairy jibbling monstrosities like a pair of badly parked Volvos” I might have recognised them.

    Louis

  109. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    Louis,

    I could have been lying, you know. Or have particular tastes. But whatever.

    Toes buttocks under the sofa.

  110. joachim says

    Take a look at Richard Carriers latest blog post about Atheism PLUS.

    He tells other atheists to GTFO is you don’t agree with him…and he loves to use the word “douchebag” which seems like a backed denigraing remark about something women use.

    But best of all he declares…

    “You are either with us or with them!”

    …snicker…isnt’ that the phrase the War Monger Donald Rumsfeld used.

    Carriers tactics remind me of Lenin addressing The CENTRAL COMMITTE…we must have ideological PURITY or GTFO. LOL!

  111. emburii says

    joachim,

    I use ‘douchey/douchebag’ in comparison to the product; to mean something/someone that people make a great fuss about and consider beneficial when said thing or person is actually harmful. Akin is a douchebag because he thinks he’s being so helpful and looking out for the ‘right’ kind of women/vaginas, but he’s actually even less than useless.

  112. says

    Sometimes you just stumble over awesome things on completely “unsuspecting” sites. From the Urban Threads blog:

    Because despite the DIY community’s best efforts to encourage and include guys into the fold, it is inevitably with the caveat of it being with extra manly crafts. Carve yourself a new chair! Metalsmith yourself a new planter. Cut up leather and make rugged, testosterone filled wallet things! Crafts and guys can’t seem to exist without some included excuse as to how this handmade craft is worthy of manly pursuits, and is even more rarely put into the context of traditionally feminine crafts.

  113. enkidu says

    Pops into the lounge for the first time to check the springs in the sofa and feel the drapes. Hmmm, quality!

    Richard Carrier: Yes, writes really wierd things, also really great things (if you’re interested in that sort of thing,… which I am) so worth persisting with. I think lame is really only used of horses, and arguments (at least in my linguistic community, so apologies if it offends anybody, or any horse)but retarded is, I think, beyond the pale.

    Clicked through to see what Howard Bloom was all about (though mind-bending meld of philosophy and science, didn’t sound too promising) couldn’t see anything but publishers blather, so googled a bit of biography…blah, blah, then “Group Selection” sprang out. Ouch! Does anybody else have an opinion about him? Is he worth reading?

  114. Pteryxx says

    mostly threadrupt…

    rowanvt: So sorry for you and your snakes. At least, if all goes well with the test development, some vague future beloved snakes and heartbroken owners won’t have to suffer like you’re doing now.

    er, Louis:

    Shapely? No sorry, those aren’t mine. If you’d gone with “gigantic hairy jibbling monstrosities like a pair of badly parked Volvos” I might have recognised them.

    Hey now, ‘Volvos’ counts as a shape… you flirt you. ;>

  115. KG says

    he loves to use the word “douchebag” which seems like a backed denigraing remark about something women use. – joachim

    Something some women have been persuaded into using by commercial interests, using the lie that the natural state of the vagina is “dirty”. So, clearly, using “douchebag” as an insult is not denigrating women.

    Warning: joachim just successfully derailed this thread about Akin into an argument about Sam Harris. Joachim: if you want to carry on shit-stirring, take it to Thunderdome. If you carry on here, I’ll bring it to PZ’s attention.

  116. emburii says

    I posted this on Carrier’s blog, though it’s ‘awaiting moderation’. Thoughts?

  117. emburii says

    Ack, text as follows:

    While I agree with your overall thesis, I am very uneasy about the hard line dichotomy here and I think it may discourage education and forward progress among people this movement otherwise could have reached. The journey to empathy always isn’t done in even ten steps, or fifty. Sometimes it’s years of remembering examples and conversations, and I’m not really fond of writing off people who are willing to have those conversations for as long as it takes, even if it takes them a long and painful time to get it right.
    I understand that you might not have the time or patience to have those conversations yourself, and I don’t want to make you or others humor that sort of problem yourself if you don’t want to, but it seems a little far to encourage shunning and call-outs by every single other person across the movement to those who can’t yet keep up. They may not share our values now, they may never get there, but to say ‘not now (and thus never)’ is too much of an attack on people rather than their ideas for me.

  118. says

    Lexie

    what approaches do people find valuable for trying to convince people that sexual orientation is innate? How do you combat a statement that someone doesn’t believe in statistics? Am I a horrible person for continuing to see my old friends? Should I not see any of them anymore because a couple are bigoted, some of them aren’t? What should I do?

    You should do what you can do. No more. IMHO, we can’t all be full-time culture warriors. It will burn you out so fast. Perhaps you can make it clear to those friends that you will not tolerate bigoted nonsense, and they will cease saying those things in your presence. Maybe you can phase them out in favor of people who are more like-minded or who make you feel more comfortable.

    As far as actual verbal combat advice, I usually resort to throwing up my hands. The thing is, their belief isn’t based in fact, so it’s pretty hard to think that if they’re that adamant that your well-crafted argument will get them out of it. (I say that as someone who was argued out of my regressive beliefs…) I don’t know the answer. I would advise you to take the route that doesn’t result in too much mental or emotional distress to yourself.

    Lyn M and Giliell

    Thanks for the new things to try baking!

    My mom would core an apple and fill it with butter, cinnamon, etc. Then crockpot several of them for several hours til soft and delicious.

    Lyn M

    You might as well try convincing them that you have a great home, just no roof.

    Ha!

    Giliell

    My pattern is to say “No thank you”, because who am I to get help.

    This a thousand times. I turn down the simplest, silliest things.

  119. Pteryxx says

    emburii, to this and similar:

    and I’m not really fond of writing off people who are willing to have those conversations for as long as it takes, even if it takes them a long and painful time to get it right.

    short version: Then have those painful conversations SOMEWHERE ELSE. 101-level cluelessness, both innocent and intentional, is choking discourse and driving away the very people whose rights are up for discussion. You are *costing* members of the marginalized groups by indulging the (supposedly) ignorant potential allies.

  120. ibbica says

    Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg

    From the Urban Threads blog…

    …Mr X Stitch…

    O.O

    :D

    *bookmarked both for cross-stitching hubby*

    …who, oddly enough, bears an uncanny resemblance to “Mr. X” XD

  121. Paul says

    @lexie, 117

    She then kind of qualified it by saying that she meant studies looking at people. I kind of gave up at this point because the fact that someone could think that epidemiology and other fields looking at people are worthless was kind of beyond me and I couldn’t think of anyway of convincing anyone of anything if they don’t believe in statistics.

    In case you didn’t connect the dots, this is because she thinks people are magic. Likely anywhere where there’s the possibility for human cognition affecting the results (aside from the scientist doing the paper, of course), she will “not believe in statistics” because people don’t work that way. I do not think you will get anywhere by discussing epidemiology as a counter-example, as diseases are real (no longer attributable to demonic possession, natch) things that can be accurately measured, and not subject to opinion. I don’t think you’ll get anywhere with the “not a choice” with that person, but more power to you if you’re willing to try.

    @KG, 157

    That’s a post at Dispatches. I don’t think Ed directs trolls and derailers to the Thunderdome, although I could be wrong :-).

  122. David Marjanović says

    Chocolate chips!

    Tee hee: http://dionthesocialist.tumblr.com/post/28067370999

    Beautiful. :-)

    Got back from BC last night. Managed not to kill any of my relatives = success.

    *hug* ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

    I’m having one of those “my government has destroyed all the funding for my career path and I will never have a fulfilling career or even be able to pay the bills in a way that doesn’t make me miserable” days.

    China or Brazil? Toss a coin.

    Or do what I did.

    http://animalstalkinginallcaps.tumblr.com/post/29903028391

    Baby elephant ^_^

    (The text underneath is irrelephant.)

    http://norwaydude87.tumblr.com/

    From there:

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m93w8sSxRp1r3upm7o1_400.jpg
    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m91xtgZAcF1r3upm7o1_400.jpg

    Who doesn’t like belly kisses? *peers over glasses*

    When I was still a Pattycakes, my mom & grandpa would give me raspberry belly kisses, there’s some squealgood fun!

    *shudder* I’m definitely too ticklish for that.

    from over on Ophelia’s harassment thread, Giliell has best comment.

    So full of win!

  123. says

    In news the Western media has apparently missed: Russia now has religious police, though only in Moscow at present. No, seriously. Their mandate is extremely broad: they will “take appropriate action” against anyone insulting the Russian Orthodox faith or arguing with a member of the clergy. No spacial limitations on their authority, either: in theory at least, they’ll be able to pursue people in their homes.

  124. David Marjanović says

    I don’t think you’ll get anywhere with the “not a choice” with that person, but more power to you if you’re willing to try.

    I’ve never been in that situation, but perhaps find papers that show heritability of sexual orientation and throw those at them. There’s one that shows male homosexuality runs in the same families as above-average female fertility…

  125. opposablethumbs says

    ‘Im Indoors got a facebook somethingorother (I don’t have facebook, so I don’t actually know if this is a message or a post on someone else’s page or whateverthehell) from a family member the other day with a sign-off or tag-line or whateverthehell that says this family member is “por la vida”, i.e. pro-life (::spits::). So I was consulted on the composition of a suitable response … we went with something like,
    even if you think a foetus is a human being, which it ain’t, you can’t legally or morally oblige anyone to give their blood, kidney, bone-marrow or body, risk their life or compromise their health, for someone else. People think it’s great if a father donates a kidney to his child, but he’s not legally obliged to do it; its the individual’s decision, and in exactly the same way it’s solely the decision of the woman concerned if she continues or interrupts the pregnancy.
    .
    I met this family member once years ago … I’m thinking it’s possible (maybe) that she’s just never really thought about it and is just saying what she thinks everyone will approve of (based on my old impression of her as someone quite vulnerable to people’s disapproval).

    We shall see.

  126. David Marjanović says

    Russia now has religious police

    … :-o

    They’re not state organs, they’re freelancing vigilantes, but that’s bad enough. When political parties have private armies, dictature is just a question of time. When the church does…

    “Tomorrow it will be enough.”

  127. David Marjanović says

    got a facebook somethingorother (I don’t have facebook, so I don’t actually know if this is a message or a post on someone else’s page or whateverthehell)

    Wait. What?

    If you’re not on Facebook, Facebook can’t contact you. Anything pretending to come from Facebook is therefore spam.

  128. Paul says

    I’ve never been in that situation, but perhaps find papers that show heritability of sexual orientation and throw those at them. There’s one that shows male homosexuality runs in the same families as above-average female fertility…

    It’s a great study. The reason for my negativity, though, is again that this person seems to think that magical human “free will” negates any statistics gathered on sociological issues. If they don’t already believe that homosexuality isn’t a choice, they simply won’t buy the premises in the papers. Need to attack that first, but it seems like a chicken and egg deal. They won’t buy the assumptions of the papers unless homosexuality isn’t a choice, but how to convince them that it’s not a choice without the studies using sociological data?

    If there was solid genetic linkage maybe, but it would need to be absolute. And we don’t have absolutes on this sort of thing, especially since (in my understanding) a lot of the cause of the effects you notice are epigenetic.

    Again, lexie, if you feel up to it give those studies a try. David, do you have a link handy? I was just feeling a bit negative, since I’ve dealt with people much like lexie describes. I just don’t deal with them anymore.

  129. Louis says

    But if Ann Coulter is against him he must be right!*

    Why are you sluts getting pregnant by your rapists? Hmmmm? I demand an Inquiry!

    Louis

    * This is surely a law of the universe. If Rebecca Watson is responsible for all Evil, Ann Coulter’s opposition must immediately indicate correctness in all matters of fact.

  130. says

    David Marjanović, I know they are not officially state organs, but this is Russia. The Church isn’t a state organ officially either, but look at how tightly it’s bound up with the government.

  131. Paul says

    Ah, and I was a bit sloppy. David may respond with “the paper(s) weren’t making any assumptions, they simply cataloged family size and instances of homosexuality”. The assumption I meant was that those “instances of homosexuality” weren’t simply due to people exercising their libertarian free will, and thus not able to be used to support the idea that homosexuality isn’t a choice (even if they just so seem to happen in larger families — there are much simpler explanations, such as prolonged time spent with other boys turning them gay, or getting squicked out by too many family babies and deciding to plow guys so they can get sex whenever they want without consequences).

  132. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Audley:

    black currant thumb prints,

    Black currants, I’ve heard of.
    Thumb prints, though?

    Sadly, I do not have a single oatmeal cookie recipe that I use– I have luck using a basic recipe and subbing out the gross stuff (ie raisins).

    Ah, raisins, the second bane of all TRUE food lovers. I wonder if Caine’s rats would eat cookies made with raisins and peas.
    ****

    portia:

    I stop the microwave at 3 seconds.

    Vewwy intewesting.
    I forgot to add one:
    I love Apple Jacks (ooh, there’s another vodka flavor). Before I can start eating a bowl of it, I have to search for two pieces stuck together. Sometimes, I make myself wait until I find the fabled 3 piece tower o’ Jacks.

    ****
    StarStuff:

    I had a plastic baggie with some crochet […]

    (emphasis added)
    Every time I see that word, my brain reads it as ‘crotch-it’ (even though I know how it’s pronounced). Don’t know why.
    (or why I felt the need to share that).

    ****
    otrame:

    I like peanut butter, lettuce, and mayo sandwiches.

    I think you get the award for the oddest combination.
    Speaking of mayo, I performed a *not remotely scientific test* a few years ago concerning those who eat Mayo (I’m not one of them).
    Back when M was still alive, we frequented Subway after the gym. I noticed that-by and large-most of the people who ordered mayo on their sammiches were white. Rarely did I see a black person ask for mayo. I came to the conclusion that:
    1- white people are strange
    2- black people are normal (except for mayo eaters)
    /sarcasm

    ****

    feralboy12:

    Me, I like banana/cheese omelets.

    And the silver medal for oddest combo goes to thee!

    ****

    I’m wondering what Mr. Poopyhead consumes that we normal folks would consider offbeat.

    ****

    Nutmeg:

    Got back from BC last night. Managed not to kill any of my relatives = success.

    Thank the LORD for that :)
    The last jailbreak we staged didn’t quite work out.

    ****

    cicely:

    It was petty, but I consoled myself that come inventory time, that sucker was never gonna come right…because he’d never find where we (meaning the 2-previous manager and I) stored hundreds of dollars worth of supplies on top of the ceiling tiles.

    Niiiiiiiiiiice.
    I heartily approve of this “pettiness” you speak of.

    ****

    Alethea:

    ♫Almond Joy’s got nuts, Mounds don’t♫
    Curse you!!! I haven’t been to the US since 1990 and it’s STILL stuck in my brain.

    Never could get around the taste of coconut in candy bars. I’m much more of a PAYDAY kinda guy. Or Snickers. A few days ago I had a [insert dramatic musical pause]…Nestle’s Crunch (which I found waaaaaaaay too sweet and struggled to finish).

    ****

    rowanvt:

    Hmmn. I never really thought of ‘lame’ as being an ableist slur before.

    I hadn’t either.
    I’ll have to make a mental note of that.

    ****

    lexie:

    Firstly I’m sorry for asking this because I’m new and have no right really to take up your time so please feel free to ignore all of this.

    The length of time you’ve been here has no bearing on posting here. So by all means, post away :)

    o I need advice, what approaches do people find valuable for trying to convince people that sexual orientation is innate? How do you combat a statement that someone doesn’t believe in statistics? Am I a horrible person for continuing to see my old friends? Should I not see any of them anymore because a couple are bigoted, some of them aren’t? What should I do?

    What should you do?
    Call in the Gay Cavalry!
    In all seriousness, here’s my anecdotal info (being queer gives me AUTHORITY )
    I was born in 1975. I started realizing I had an attraction to other men sometime around the age 13 (1988). I had no idea what I was feeling. I had nothing to compare it to. There wasn’t anything on tv that I was aware of that came remotely close to being same sex attraction. Yet I knew, somehow, that it was wrong. It took many years (and rejecting all religious belief when I took Philosophy classes in college) to overcome this destructive thinking.
    Share with your friend that for many gay people, attraction to members of the same sex hits with puberty. That’s when I recall first noticing other guys. That’s when the erections started occuring (sorry if that’s TMI). I didn’t have anything influence me (that I’m aware of). I just hit puberty and my hormones went [this way]—>. For heterosexual men, their hormones go [that way] <—- when they hit puberty. I was no more in conscious control of my sexuality than anyone else. I've *never* looked at a woman with sexual thoughts. I've never had an erection from thinking about being with a woman (and yes, I've *thought* about it, but as nothing more than a mild curiosity).
    As for statistics, I don't know enough about them to comment much, but I will say that a *lot* of people dismiss things they know nothing about. Just like believers who say they don't believe evolution. Many of them aren't educated enough about evolution TO reject it. I have to wonder if your friend really knows much about the study of statistics.
    I don't think you're at all horrible for keeping them as friends. If we rejected all the people that we know who act in any manner that displeases us or offends others (etc), we would live lonely lives. I think you have to decide what your threshold of tolerance is. If your friends aren't actively engaging in bigotry or discrimination against queers (in which case, I would say *yes* kick that person out of your life), just make it clear that you accept gays and lesbians. Let your friends know you accept us for who we are and that you don't question us when we say we didn't choose to be homosexual. Let them know that you advocate treating us as equal to everyone else. Let them know that you find certain words or phrases insulting to queers and that you do not want to be around your friends if they're going to use such terms. Give the a chance to alter their habits. Give them a chance to change first, before you kick them to the curb.
    Hope that helps :)

  133. David Marjanović says

    Ooh! The article about the “let’s mock the state and play cops for Jesus” dunderheads has a poll that should be pharyngulated!

    “Would you like it if over here people smiled at each other in the streets, as it is usual in many other countries? [Which ones, the US?]

    Yes, that would be nice
    57 (32%)

    No, only morons smile without a reason
    48 (27%)

    I don’t care
    30 (17%)

    I don’t usually notice unknown people in the street
    45 (25%)

    Total: 180”

  134. David Marjanović says

    FFS. Freethoughtblogs formats quotation marks behind numbers as double primes (inch signs, I suppose). *headdesk*

    David, do you have a link handy?

    Nope. But I’m sure Google Scholar can find some.

  135. opposablethumbs says

    David, no, I’m not on the dread non-confidentiality that is facebook but ‘Im Indoors is. He facebooks family in distant lands.

    I appreciate the thought!

  136. emburii says

    Pteryxx, I do understand that and I don’t expect him to host 101-level discussions if he doesn’t want to. I don’t expect anyone to put up with it in their own spaces or terms, or deal with such nonsense gracefully if confronted, and I’m all for making sure that the majority of discussions exist past entry-level discourse with those on the few 101 levels being strongly encouraged to ‘graduate’ very quickly. But my problem with his approach, with his ‘if this is not your understanding here and now then you are my enemy’, is that it seems to imply that there is no room for 101 or ignorance, ANYWHERE, in ‘Atheism+’. I don’t expect anyone to feign patience or put up with hurtful situations, but I don’t want to be classified as anyone’s enemy because I have spoons to argue with rather than just cutting someone off for the ‘movement’ as per his implication.
    Now, if this isn’t what he’s implying, great! But in his zeal to establish lines, that’s how it comes off.

  137. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Giliell:

    And they HAVE to be served on St. Nicholas Day or ELSE THE WORLD WILL END.

    I wonder-has anyone compiled a list of all the days the world was supposed to end?
    ****
    Y’know, I think it’s impossible to have a bad day after reading one of Louis’ posts. Cf. comments @142/143.
    ****

    The arms: Female arms are mainly used for pies. My research shows that pies can be up to 14% tastier if female arms have hands at the end of them. Woman can detach their arms at the first hint of trouble.
    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/todd-akins-guide-to-the-female-anatomy-2012082138639

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
    ****
    emburii @160:
    I couldn’t figure out who (or what) you’re responding to. If you’re talking about Atheism Plus, I have something to say. I’ll hold off though, until I get clarification.
    ****
    portia:

    My mom would core an apple and fill it with butter, cinnamon, etc. Then crockpot several of them for several hours til soft and delicious.

    Irrationality time.
    I’ve never used a crock pot. I can’t shake this idea that cooking something in a crock pot and leaving the house for hours on end will result in returning home to smoldering rubble.
    ****

  138. Pteryxx says

    emburii: when ignorance takes the form of say “women are asking for it” then even I have no problem preventing the harm first and educating second. It’s entirely reasonable to cut off someone who is doing damage. I would expect a reasonable person to consider the possibility that their being cut off was justified.

  139. Pteryxx says

    I’ve never used a crock pot. I can’t shake this idea that cooking something in a crock pot and leaving the house for hours on end will result in returning home to smoldering rubble.

    The first time I used a crock pot, I sat within view of it *and watched it* for six hours. <_<

    Now it's no big deal, though I still clear a good two feet of firebreak on every side of the thing.

  140. says

    Well, if we’re having irrationality time, I slept with the light on for four nights in a row last week after finding another centipede in my bed.

    I understand the crock pot fear. I work from home, so I’ll be using one today for chili but I admit I have never left one on and left the house. (My mom was a SAHM).

  141. says

    Just got the crews fed breakfast – Rice cereal (baby type) mixed with soy milk and banana baby food, fresh cooked yams and watermelon slices. Holy ratz, that baby cereal is messy and disgusting looking. Fortunately, everything is a hit, so yay.

    While I was prepping breakfast, the boys managed to wreak a fair amount of havoc and started a google search for l–******. Now Chester has had tea and is waiting for me to play Kleenex of Doom™ with him.

    All the ratties are doing well and pets and lovin’ and belly rubbin’ and belly kisses have been doled out to all. They are being happy little pains in the arse, all of ’em.

    I *have* to stitch today, I’m so behind it ain’t funny.

  142. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    David @179:
    One of the things that annoys me about the South [US] is this penchant for insincerity. You’ll routinely hear “How’s it going?” (or some variation) from complete strangers (and not in a retail/restaurant setting). To walk into the mall or a convenience store and have a complete stranger ask me “How’s it going?” is still off putting.
    Why?
    Do they really want to know about my current job situation, or the flat tire that I have, or that my wife just left me, or anything about my life at all? Do they have some personal investment in me and my life to the extent that they’re genuinely interested in the things I have to say? Or is this just a case of FAKE politeness? My friends care about my life, so when they ask, I tell them. People here in The Lounge care, because that’s the environment that’s cultivated here. But a complete stranger you pass as you’re entering a convenience store? Call me sKePtIcAl.
    I’m also annoyed by this seemingly Southern penchant for stopping for funeral processions. I understand if the procession is crossing in front of you, but if it’s running parallel to you and you won’t interrupt them, why the heck do we need to stop? I don’t know those people. I don’t know the dead person. The dead person isn’t likely to care whether or not anyone stops, so clearly the benefit is for the grieving people. I feel somewhat insensitive saying this, but in the end, I don’t have an emotional investment in the people or the dead person, so stopping my car and waiting until the procession has passed is a frustrating activity. Oh, and unless you’re the only person driving on your side, it’s virtually impossible to keep driving, because *everyone else* stops.

  143. says

    Pteryxx:

    short version: Then have those painful conversations SOMEWHERE ELSE. 101-level cluelessness, both innocent and intentional, is choking discourse and driving away the very people whose rights are up for discussion. You are *costing* members of the marginalized groups by indulging the (supposedly) ignorant potential allies.

    Seconded and noisily so.

  144. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Kleenex of Doom sounds awesome.
    Hmmm, a reality TV show that follows Caine around as she cares for the ratlets…?

  145. says

    Tony, that’s a funny thing. I’ve never seen people stop alongside a funeral procession. Emergency vehicle, yes, but there are obvious reasons for that. Odd.

    As for the politeness in general, you’re right that it’s weird, and that it’s insincere. It’s just sort of what everybody does. Like saying “please” or “excuse me.” The lack of it is rudeness, in some situations.

    Pteryxx:

    short version: Then have those painful conversations SOMEWHERE ELSE. 101-level cluelessness, both innocent and intentional, is choking discourse and driving away the very people whose rights are up for discussion. You are *costing* members of the marginalized groups by indulging the (supposedly) ignorant potential allies.

    I’m having flashbacks to WWJTD-gate. Thirded.

    Caine: yay for happy ratties! How’s Angua?

    I really have to do some accounting today…ok I’m really gonna do it now. Toodles.

  146. Rey Fox says

    Have you tried asking her when she chose to be heterosexual?

    Personally, there’s a point in every “choice” argument where I just shut down and say “What the hell does it matter anyway? If two people of the same sex love each other* and want to get married, then who the hell are you to tell them they shouldn’t?”

    * Fucking heterosexual couples don’t even have to love each other to get married!

    because it frames the whole debate by basically admitting that an abortion is a bad thing.

    It’s tricky because it’s such an emotional topic, and many people will probably never get over the strong feeling that abortion IS a bad thing. The best that they might ever support is exceptions for rape, incest, danger to the mother, etc. And maybe if you’re lucky, you can convince them that the situations in which abortion can become a “necessary evil” are many, and that they depend on the situation of the mother, and should not be decided by the mother and relevant medical professionals rather than being dictated from a statehouse.

    You can touch yourself and cause much more excitement!

    Tonight on News of the Obvious…

    Ann Coulter ripped into Todd Akin on Wednesday night, blasting his decision to continue his campaign for Missouri’s Senate seat and urging Republicans to stage a write-in campaign.

    Funny how she’s so concerned about that Senate seat, but is still urging a split of the Republican vote. Well, I don’t mind.

    But would it still be too much to ask that Akin be voted out of the Senate for his many many many MANY political failings instead?!

    I’m wondering what Mr. Poopyhead consumes that we normal folks would consider offbeat.

    He lives in Minnesota, so he probably dines on all sorts of weird Scandinavian fish dishes.

  147. Pteryxx says

    (semirandom rant)

    okay, because seeing the cluelessness and insinuations spread over every single A+ thread is pissing me off.

    I suggest that a hypothetical A+ discussion space, most likely a forum, should have a 101 space where education (and probably flaming as shown necessary) can take place. Then, every single one of these politey-reasonabley ‘but lying/Marxist/what if’ posts should be summarily moved there from their original threads. It’d take a heavy mod presence, especially with the sheer level of BS; but then at least we wouldn’t be dealing with the silencing/harassment effect of having to voice the same objections and evidence in a dozen different places.

  148. Pteryxx says

    also I have to say, the last several months of inane hatred have given me a lot more sympathy for Shakesville’s draconian comment restrictions. (A lot, mind you, not absolute.)

  149. says

    Tony:

    Hmmm, a reality TV show that follows Caine around as she cares for the ratlets…?

    Heh, no. No, no, no.

    Portia:

    How’s Angua?

    Wonderful, getting braver every day, following Gytha around everywhere. :D

  150. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    I just stumbled onto an intriguing site that shows videos detailing the efforts of women (both known and ‘unknown’) in their various struggles. I’m typically not one to watch videos. I’d rather read and digest the information (as long as it’s not novel length), but the first video I watched*-Sara Ziff -was only 3m50s.

    *As I scrolled down the list of women, I was trying to figure out which video to watch first. I started looking at each of the women, and midway through I realized I was paying attention to their features and their ethnicity. I smacked myself across the head for that. I decided to start at the bottom and work my way up.

  151. emburii says

    Tony, I was addressing Richard Carrier’s article on Atheism+.

    Thinking about it more, I can pin down more precisely what bothers me about his rhetoric. And the ‘no place for ignorance or 101’ isn’t actually it.

    In his article, he calls for defining people as enemies to Atheism+ if they’re misogynist, if they’re racist, if they’re wantonly classist. I don’t mind calling such people out. I don’t mind hating them, even, or others doing so; I know such people make me see red. But defining ‘enemies’, making it personal to the individual rather than shutting down their ideas, is what’s caused even some people we care about a world of grief.

    Surly Amy is being harassed because she is friend and coworker to Rebecca Watson. She is told she wants to destroy TAM despite her scholarship efforts. It really seems like those people harassing her are doing so because they don’t see her as a person but rather as, well…an enemy. She is the friend to their enemy Rebecca Watson, and thus she’s getting shoved into this dehumanizing mess because she’s been stripped of her personhood in their eyes and reduced to this little ticky-box of ‘hate’.

    For that matter, when we start drawing lines in the sand we risk cutting off even well-intentioned allies with blemishes. Jason Thibeault shows some straight privilege, should he be defined as ‘enemy’ and kicked out for it? Stephanie Zvan is still defending Greg Laden, even though he’s employed rhetoric just as violent and pointed as that she claims to abhor in others. JT lets people JAQ off in his space and then bans the people who vocalize anger over it. But JT, for instance, also puts in hundred-hour work defending the line between church and state, working to enfranchise young people who might otherwise not know who to turn to. Stephanie and Jason work hard to combat sexism and to promote science. Are they gone, too?

    Hating ideas, yes. Being blindingly, seethingly angry at hateful and terrible people and wanting to combat the harm they do, yes. But making a label and a category and sticking people in it, and being PROUD of that and considering it a feature rather than a bug…that’s really what I don’t like about his post. I want us to be a step forward in hope and truth, rather than a step back into elitism and pride, but that’s not what I get from his post at all.

  152. cicely says

    Tree Lobsters! strikes again!

    *pouncehugback* for Hekuni Cat.
    I hadn’t been aware that *pouncehugs* could loom like that!

    lexie, nothing, but *nothing* makes much of an impact on willful ignorance and determined denial.

    As far as the “I don’t believe in statistics about people” thing goes, the problem is partly the abovementions ignorance and denial, and partly that Humans Are Speshul. We Are Not As Other (mere) Animals. In fact, We Aren’t Animals At All. ‘Cause, God.

    A dark chocolate Almond Joy variant would be…awesome.
    *sigh*

    Outrageous! Won’t people think of the horses?

    I always think of the Horses. Always.

    I think lame is really only used of horses, and arguments

    …and my knees. And on that basis, I persist in my claim that I have the right (and perhaps the obligation) to designate as “lame” those persons, places, things, concepts, actions, and parts of speech, which are, IMO, composed of as much Suck and FAIL as my knees.

    Which I am prepared to produce in evidence, if required.

    Srsly. If I were a Horse, I’d’ve been taken out back of the stable and shot, already.

  153. says

    Tony, King of Hellmouth:

    I grew up in Moscow. I now live in the US. Let me tell you from personal experience:

    People in shops in the US may be insincere when they say “How are you doing?”, but I strongly prefer insincere civility to that sincere and heartfelt khamstvo that you would commonly encounter instead had you been living in Moscow. I am using a Russian word here to describe the phenomenon because trust me, there is nothing like it in the American culture.

    “Khamstvo” isn’t just rudeness. It’s a tradition, a world-view, a frame of mind, where almost any person who isn’t actually your friend is to be treated as an enemy. It’s ideological rudeness combined with passion and deep conviction, which translates into verbal assaults so gratuitous and so perverse, they leave the uninitiated completely stunned. So the person issuing a common greeting here may not care whether the person he is greeting has cancer — but at least it’s fairly uncommon to have one’s response met with “Well, I pray to God you experience a lot more pain.”

  154. Pteryxx says

    Thinking about it more, I can pin down more precisely what bothers me about his rhetoric. And the ‘no place for ignorance or 101′ isn’t actually it.

    Thanks for clarifying that… as is probably obvious, that’s the front I’m fighting on right now. <_<

    In his article, he calls for defining people as enemies to Atheism+ if they’re misogynist, if they’re racist, if they’re wantonly classist.

    But JT, for instance, also puts in hundred-hour work defending the line between church and state, working to enfranchise young people who might otherwise not know who to turn to. Stephanie and Jason work hard to combat sexism and to promote science. Are they gone, too?

    short answer b/c busy: that’s a much, much more complicated question, and it overlaps with trust and the determination of who is or is not an ally. There is no clear way to score up points and make an objective, blanket determination of who is or is not an ally; it’s just as invalid as covering up pedophilia because the priest (or coach) did so much for charity. A diverse movement cannot command that members trust or do not trust certain people, or extend good faith to them. For instance, however much good JT has done, you can’t compel me to trust or distrust him at the same level you do. (Or vice versa; assuming we differ.)

    So basically, when someone shows themselves to be an enemy, IMHO that’s not a determination that “AtheismPlusTheMovement” can or should make. It’s shown by everyone’s individual metric, with consideration of the differing feelings of others; and shows in discussions like this one, and in measurable phenomena like, say, how many women bail from your organization. ;>

  155. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    A Catholic that gets it!

    Jon O’Brien, the president of Catholics for Choice, took a slightly softer stance, saying, “I feel that Republicans probably need to be blessed as much as Democrats do, so I cannot imagine Catholics having a problem with” Dolan delivering a benediction. But, O’Brien added, “what is more worrying is the backroom lobbying the Bishops engage in to try and pressure the body politic in this an election year to give them a free pass and endorse their bogus claims of imagined infringements on their religious liberty when they are really seeking politicians to bestow on them religious privilege.”
    http://www.salon.com/2012/08/23/bishops_god_votes_republican/

  156. thunk, sour grape says

    Hia. Settled in now.

    ————————-

    Any (other) flag proposals for the PRP? We have an anthem and seal, but no flag, afaik. :/

  157. emburii says

    Pteryxx, I understand where you’re coming from. There’s some overlap with the ignorance/101 stuff, but it’s not the biggest trigger and I’m not going to be very good at explaining it anyway. I don’t think you’d disagree with me if I could put it into words well enough, but…I’m not very bright, so I doubt that’s going to happen any time soon.

    Anyway, your response is a good one, and I feel it’s much better than what Richard Carrier is setting as a tone. Your answer is positive, a building befitting the +, whereas his stance feels more like a parallel to the ‘Brights’ nonsense.

  158. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Amused:

    “Khamstvo” isn’t just rudeness. It’s a tradition, a world-view, a frame of mind, where almost any person who isn’t actually your friend is to be treated as an enemy. It’s ideological rudeness combined with passion and deep conviction, which translates into verbal assaults so gratuitous and so perverse, they leave the uninitiated completely stunned. So the person issuing a common greeting here may not care whether the person he is greeting has cancer — but at least it’s fairly uncommon to have one’s response met with “Well, I pray to God you experience a lot more pain.”

    I can see why you’d prefer the insincerity.
    I would rather have neither. This “Khamstvo” you speak of is waaay too vicious and over the top. The insincerity I speak of in the South is too fake for me. I’ve been criticized before because I don’t always say “How are you?” to complete strangers. Yet no one gives me a reason *why* one should say this (well, they do give me a reason if “just because” counts). My not saying “How are you?” is not equal to “I don’t give a shit about you, go to hell.”, but I think some people interpret it that way (same goes with my dislike of stopping for funeral processions).
    ****
    Along the same vein of social insincerity, I find “Bless her heart” to be an insult, as it’s typically used to soften a criticism of others.
    Ex: “Suzie May ain’t the brightest apple in the bunch. Bless her heart.”
    Gah!
    This fake niceness is on my fucking nerves. I much prefer genuine people. Heck, I’d respect a genuinely MEAN person more than a fake nice one.

  159. says

    Caine
    Actually, the ratties’ breakfast sounds better than what I have most days. But the baby stuff isn’t as bad as it looks, even though you’d think it came from the DIY.

    Wonderful, getting braver every day, following Gytha around everywhere. :D

    She knows who the best people are to have fun with. Is Gytha as, let me put it carefully, gourmetly-minded as her name-sister?
    Give her a kiss from us.

  160. David Marjanović says

    ‘Im Indoors

    …Oh, “Him Indoors”. Now I get it. :-)

    I wonder-has anyone compiled a list of all the days the world was supposed to end?

    http://xkcd.com/887/

    I laughed so hard and so long the first time I saw this.

    …While I am at it: http://xkcd.com/715/

    Do they really want to know about my current job situation, or the flat tire that I have, or that my wife just left me, or anything about my life at all? Do they have some personal investment in me and my life to the extent that they’re genuinely interested in the things I have to say? Or is this just a case of FAKE politeness?

    This is what politeness is. “How’s it going” has turned into a completely meaningless greeting formula, a ritual.

    Did you know that the expected answer to “How do you do” is “How do you do”?

  161. says

    Wonderful, getting braver every day, following Gytha around everywhere. :D

    Cheers to both of us for getting up our nerve. I’m glad to hear she’s flourishing. Please give her some belly rubs for me.

  162. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Hey Caine!

    So glad the ratlets are doing well. I know you’ll give them excellent care. The Little One will be happy to hear it! She’s been worrying.

    Any news on Chas II? I’d love to tell the Little One a story about him.

    ——
    In other news, one awesome thing that Little One’s school is doing is having a dentist come on campus. Everyone gets seen and treated no matter what, unless the parents object to it. Today is the first day the dentist is on campus. It sucks I can’t be there to hold her hand and comfort her. We talked about it and she wasn’t scared but I’m worried what will happen when she sits down in the chair with the dentist. When I handed her teacher the paperwork I also asked about precautions of who’s in the room when she’s in chair or if they have use anesthesia. I may worry too much but the idea of my child being out cold with strange people around her scares me. I don’t think they will have to do that or anything but it’s nice to know her teacher will be there with her.

    It’s so awesome for everyone who doesn’t have insurance or has obligations like a job during the day when they can’t get away. Doing any appointments on the weekends is always a pain, especially for school age children, since most need appointments then.

  163. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Is there something weird about getting drunk and watching Intervention episodes online?

    That’s like eating ice cream while watching those weight loss reality shows. Yeah, I don’t know anyone who does that…*looks away quickly*

    I don’t think it’s weird but I might be the wrong person to answer that question.

  164. says

    JAL, I also watch Hoarders before/during house cleaning. I like to stay in the mood? :)

    Lookie, I’m about to sell my #2 guitar, #1 guitar is at the pawn shop, I need a drink.

  165. Rey Fox says

    I got another campaign e-mail from Senator McCaskill today, and in it, they forwarded a recent fundraising e-mail from Akins’ campaign, which included the following sentence:

    “Already, McCaskill and her allies are working to make political hay about the remarks I have apologized for countless times.”

    Obviously, Akins is speaking to his base here, and not me. But it bothers me for a big reason that has been bothering me ever since his “legitimate rape” remarks broke on Sunday. And that is how there seems to be this perception that he misspoke, that he perpetrated what is, in the political news media theater, known as a “gaffe”.

    He did not. It has been clear from his apologies that he meant everything he said. He “misspoke” only in that he didn’t anticipate the particular word he used to cause as much outcry as it did.

    In other words, Todd, I don’t care how many times you trot out your fake apologies. You’re still wrong. I don’t care that you “misspoke”. I care that you “misthought”.

    I realize that there are people out there tired of the whole issue, and I don’t blame them. It’s a hard thing to have to face. Outrage fatigue is real. But at the same time, I don’t want this to blow over for him. I want him to be faced with screaming mobs of women and men who care about women everywhere he goes. I want his name dragged in the mud, because he has proven amply that he deserves it. Heck, even forgetting about rape and abortion for a moment, think of Medicare. Think of student loans. Think of the minimum wage. He’s gunning for all those things.

    Thanks for the notpologies, Todd. Now go away.

  166. says

    Attention Alukonis. (I did not write that post, btw; I just saw it a little while ago.) Shitsville is such an abusive craphole. You don’t have to put up with it.

    StarStuff, #97: D’aaawwwww.

    Regarding ableism: “Retarded” is out of bounds, but I disagree that “lame” is. It’s as antiquated as “idiot” or “moron” in terms of applicability to actual disabled humans.

    Let me repeat what I said here:

    I see a lot of discussion of “ableism” in this discussion. We’re not going to get derailed into the worst sorts of language policing, are we, as exemplified by the “Ableist Word Profile” (Google it because I won’t link)? Or the absurd extremes of the social model, which posits, for example, that not having functional legs is no biggie and only considered such because because society values having functional legs?

    And what I said here about ageism. Could we try not to end up sounding like this individual, please?

    Lexie, you’re not a horrible person for hanging out with your old friends. Some people would say that you can do good by continuing to “work on” them. Personally, though, I’d ditch them, because I have no patience for such willfully ignorant shit. Tony’s advice is good.

    KG:

    His Royal Highness was, of course, decorously dressed in his accustomed leisure wear, a Wehrmacht Afrika Corp desert uniform with swastika armband.

    :D

    Pteryxx:

    Then have those painful conversations SOMEWHERE ELSE. 101-level cluelessness, both innocent and intentional, is choking discourse and driving away the very people whose rights are up for discussion. You are *costing* members of the marginalized groups by indulging the (supposedly) ignorant potential allies.

    A round of applause.

    Emburii, comparing the demonization of Surly Amy to the desire to oust misogynists from atheism is moral equivalence. Collapsing all privilege fails into the same category is a category error. And IMHFO the numbers of “well-intentioned allies” are greatly exaggerated. How many Ryan Grant Longs and Justicars and Peterhearns and Russell Blackfords and on and on and on do these orally flatulent wankers need before they’ll believe there’s a problem?

  167. Rey Fox says

    I think that most times I use the word “lame”, “weak” would convey what I mean just as well if not better.

  168. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I’ve never used kill-file because it just isn’t my style, however, is there a Chrome version?

  169. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Well, I have some questions and would like some advice.

    I won a book through First Reads on Goodreads. It’s a book before it’s published to get reviews out about the book. I’m about 100 pages in and one of the main characters is bugging the shit out of me. He’s following and pester the main character even though she’s made it clear she has a boyfriend and not interested. She keeps avoiding him then gets trapped into being “nice” and saying yes to doing little things with him like going for coffee. He’s dragging her in and doing typical Nice Guy(tm) shit. It’s creeping me out and I’m worried for the main character.

    Now, I’ve looked through the links on the Pharyngula Wiki, to help me explain what is wrong with this guy. It’s immensely helpful. I doubt many people are going to read my review but I’m worried about linking the articles in my review. I’d hate to have assholes come in and comment on it. Especially on the Wiki since it’s a community effort and it hasn’t really had issues with strange people coming in and looking through it.

    I’m not good with expressing myself and I really need the articles to explain it all. Either way the story goes I have to mention this issue. I have to bring up the Nice Guy(tm) crap because I’m tired of it being okay.

    Do you guys think it’s okay to link to the Wiki for a general info resource and then specific articles in my review? Any other articles that would help me out that isn’t on the Wiki? Any advice on any part of this problem?

  170. says

    JAL
    Unless there’s something big that has to be done dentists usually don’t put kids out. When I went with #1 the dentist was very careful not to give her that horrible “oh nonono dentist” memory.

    +++
    Today, in her ballet clase, #1 spoke up loudly and told about Otto the Otter who has a special dance. I was like “what, is that my kid? And I really appreciate that her teacher, although she was mildly disturbing class didn’t reprimand her but understood the importance of the moment and thanked her for her story, especially since she never tells him anything.

    +++
    Cool show about evolution on TV that explains the origin of our various body-parts like lungs and stuff

  171. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    From Salon:

    Did you know that once men are sexually aroused, they cannot stop themselves?

    In an unprecedented move, parents in California are suing their local school district over sex education. But these parents aren’t revolting for the reasons we’ve come to expect: They’re suing because they want their kids to be fully informed — imagine that.

    ****
    Ms. Daisy:
    Would you characterize ‘weak’ in the same way as ‘lame’? I may have to peruse that Ableist Word Profile. I’ve not used weak or lame much, but I would like to avoid using ableist terms.

    ****
    Does anyone have a recipe for Deviled Eggs ?

  172. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Unless there’s something big that has to be done dentists usually don’t put kids out. When I went with #1 the dentist was very careful not to give her that horrible “oh nonono dentist” memory.

    Oh I know, they explained the extreme situations when they need to put kids under for and how this is just an initial appointment. If that’s needed I’m there for her. It’s not like she can go back to class after a dentist appointment like that. That doesn’t stop me from worrying though. she’s going to around strange adults that have authority and that she doesn’t know. I’m not there and I don’t like not being in control of situations, especially with my daughter. Because of my past and…things I just can’t stop these horrible things running through my mind.

  173. strange gods before me ॐ says

    JAL,

    Now, I’ve looked through the links on the Pharyngula Wiki, to help me explain what is wrong with this guy. It’s immensely helpful. I doubt many people are going to read my review but I’m worried about linking the articles in my review. I’d hate to have assholes come in and comment on it. Especially on the Wiki since it’s a community effort and it hasn’t really had issues with strange people coming in and looking through it.

    This would be relevant — it’s intended for privacy reasons, but will have other effects.

    (Others, besides JAL, who use the wiki should have a look.)

  174. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    This is what politeness is. “How’s it going” has turned into a completely meaningless greeting formula, a ritual.

    Did you know that the expected answer to “How do you do” is “How do you do”?

    I have a similar problem with greetings – in addition to often giving mismatched preprogrammed responses, “what’s goin’ on?” used as a greeting completely strips my gears. Especially when people repeat it if I just respond with “I’m good, you?”

  175. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Azkyroth:

    I have a similar problem with greetings – in addition to often giving mismatched preprogrammed responses, “what’s goin’ on?” used as a greeting completely strips my gears. Especially when people repeat it if I just respond with “I’m good, you?”

    Maybe I’ll start answering honestly.
    Anonymous: How’s it going?
    Me: I’ve been jobless for a week. The economy still sucks. I’m worried that a rich, sexist, homo-hatin’, job destroying nitwit is a serious presidential contender. I’d like to go back to school without being in debt for 40 years after. You?
    Anonymous: >walks away<
    I mean, do they *really* want to hear that?

  176. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    sg, 223: Heh. I learned a lot that day.

    Good times.

    +++++++++++

    I’ve learned not to ask some people how they’re doing. I greet them with “I was just on my way out”.

  177. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Audley:

    Sadly, I do not have a single oatmeal cookie recipe that I use– I have luck using a basic recipe and subbing out the gross stuff (ie raisins).

    Seconded. FUCK raisin cookies.

    (Raisins acquire this sort of astringent-rancid flavor when baked. Anyone else notice this?)

    Tony:

    Does anyone have a recipe for Deviled Eggs ?

    I’ve used the following:

    Ingredients:
    12 extra-large eggs, hard-boiled and peeled
    “About” 4 tablespoons lowfat sour cream (the texture of this stuff makes it maddeningly difficult to precisely measure)
    1 tablespoon nonfat milk
    3 teaspoons white wine vinegar
    1 1/2 teaspoon fine ground mustard powder
    3/4 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
    1/4 teaspoon Teriyaki sauce
    1/4 teaspoon celery salt
    1/8 teaspoon onion powder
    1/8 teaspoon garlic powder
    Paprika

    Directions:
    Halve eggs and remove yolks. Set whites aside on cookie sheets or something else clean that leaves them accessible for filling. Place yolks and all other ingredients except paprika in an appropriately-sized food processor, by which I mean a FOOD PROCESSOR; a blender will not produce satisfactory results. Food process until smooth. Fill the eggs however you find most convenient; this should allow for a generous portion per egg. Sprinkle with paprika. Makes 24 units of deviled egg. Decide for yourself how many this serves.

    Or, rather, I’ve made it twice. The first time it came out well. The second time it was horribly overvinegared; I assumed I had written “tablespoons” instead of “teaspoons” by mistake.

  178. says

    Giliell:

    Is Gytha as, let me put it carefully, gourmetly-minded as her name-sister?

    She is…food experimental. She’ll try anything! She’s also a full court body hugger and body climber and she doesn’t really care if you’re clothed or not.

    Give her a kiss from us.

    Done.

    For all those who have the girls, Girls at Play.

    Amelia is making me crazed, Christ, she’s bloody-minded. Zoe is doing really well today, active, playful, happy.

  179. says

    SGBM, I honestly have not seen the word “lame” in current reference to humans in a long time. Its use has become rarer than that of “cripple[d].” I don’t mind refraining from using it in this space, out of respect for Crip Dyke and other PwD who object to it, but bear in mind that what constitutes “ableist speech” has nowhere near the consensus as does, for example, what constitutes racist speech. I’m another person with psych diagnoses who doesn’t really care much about “crazy” as a metaphor. I’ve got friends with mobility limitations who can’t be bothered to care about the use of “lame.”

    Tony, I don’t have a problem with either term, personally, but the objections to “weak” are especially over the top.

    Greetings are just verbalized rituals. You’re not meant to take them literally. “Goodbye” is literally a contraction of “God be with ye,” but nobody means it that way, either.

  180. says

    So glad the ratlets are doing well. I know you’ll give them excellent care. The Little One will be happy to hear it! She’s been worrying.

    Aaw, please, tell her not to worry. Zoe and Carrot are both doing very well and are happy, alert and active.

    Any news on Chas II? I’d love to tell the Little One a story about him.

    Chas was very excited about the new climbing ropes we made and put up last night, but not for climbing. He’s interested in deconstructing them in any way possible. He did end up swinging about on one of them, while gnawing on the bottom knot. He’s done pretty well with the new diet, but has decided, most definitely, that fruit cocktail absolutely sucks. (Along with everyone else.) However, watermelon is delicious and well worth fighting over. He’s been napping exclusively with the Daddies lately, preferably laying on top of Sam Daddy or Havelock Daddy.

  181. says

    Digby, on rapists having legal rights to the children they’ve sired:

    When you peel away the layers of all this abortion, rape, contraception nonsense you end up in the same place: women are inveterate liars who will deny men their inherent right to their bodies and their offspring if their sexuality isn’t tightly controlled by the church and the state. (It’s not as if it’s really about darling babies — they’re torturing women by making them go through childbirth even if their baby is dead.)

    You just can’t trust the beyotches. Never could.

  182. Pteryxx says

    re deviled eggs: blender/processor? PFFT, elitists! I just moosh the yolks/mayo/spices with a spoon until my arm almost falls off. Then I have lumpy deviled egg filling. Big deal. *slurp*

  183. says

    Well… down to one guitar. #firstworldproblems

    Got enough money for the rent though, and a week+ worth of groceries. Is “week+” sort of like “Atheism+” where I’m going to get trolled on Twitter by a bunch of idiots who claim to feel persecuted because they don’t want to be included?

  184. says

    Tony:
    You know those cookies with a little dollop of jam on top? Those are thumbprints.

    As far as being the “joke killer”– I totally slaughtered a joke that Brownian made on the “-omics” thread. It wasn’t very good anyway. :p

    Azkyroth:
    Fuck raisins. *fist bump*

    In other news, I had a hellaciously scary morning. Woke up with abdominal cramps and back pain, but my doc was able to me in right away– no signs of early labor, whew. I have a minor infection, but nothing that can’t be cleared up within a week.

    I also found out that if I go into labor, since I’m in my 30th week, the chances of DarkFetus having permanent medical problems is extremely small, so that’s a bit of a relief, too.

  185. says

    Defense cuts. A big issue. The United States outspends the other top ten countries by quite a bit. The U.S. outspends the combined defense budgets of China, United Kingdom, France, Japan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Germany, India and Brazil. The U.S. defense budget is 793.3 billion per year. The other top ten countries combined spend a tad less that 500 billion.

    From the team that seldom provides detailed answers, we do have an answer on defense. Romney and Ryan would make certain that we do not cut the defense budget. In order to keep that promise, they will cut food stamps and other programs for the poor.

    If Mitt Romney wins in November, he and a Republican Congress will fast track legislation early next year to replace across the board defense cuts with cuts to food stamps and other programs for needy Americans.

    “In January our intention is that if we don’t fix it in the lame duck is to fix it retroactively once a new session of Congress takes place,” Paul Ryan, Romney’s running mate, told a crowd in North Carolina Thursday, “We have procedural way in the Senate to advance that legislation very quickly and get it to the next President of the United States who I believe is going to be Mitt Romney, to pass that into law and retroactively prevent that sequester from taking place in January.”…</blockquote
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/paul-ryan-mitt-romney-defense-sequestration.php?ref=fpa

  186. says

    Beatrice:

    Thanks for the photos, Caine. Girls look like they’re having a great time.

    You’re welcome. They are all now busy, playing like mad, into everything and having a blast. Girls are a challenge, they need new toys every day and tons of attention.

  187. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Well, here you go then.

    SGBM, I honestly have not seen the word “lame” in current reference to humans in a long time.

    Did you not see the words in Crip Dyke’s comment? She wrote of just that: «my father’s servicemates were “lamed” in war and are “lame” now».

    Its use has become rarer than that of “cripple[d].”

    Which itself is not rare.

    bear in mind that what constitutes “ableist speech” has nowhere near the consensus as does, for example, what constitutes racist speech. I’m another person with psych diagnoses who doesn’t really care much about “crazy” as a metaphor. I’ve got friends with mobility limitations who can’t be bothered to care about the use of “lame.”

    Speech is or is not ableist — contributes to privilege and oppression in the world — regardless of any person’s opinion about the matter.

  188. cicely says

    Ah, raisins, the second bane of all TRUE food lovers. I wonder if Caine’s rats would eat cookies made with raisins and peas.

    Who knows? My Bitsy-cat apparantly suffers from a compulsion to eat oatmeal and raisin cookies, digging deep down into the trash, if necessary, to haul them out.

    Devilled Eggs? Yum! Mash up egg yolks, add a little mustard, rather more Miracle Whip™, and finely-chopped pecan bits. Mix well. Scoop the goop into the egg halves. Sprinkle lightly with nutmeg or cinnamon.

  189. emburii says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter, I’m not trying to lessen the wretched treatment she’s being given or cry persecution for the sake of the Blackfords or Justicars of the world. I don’t like them and I don’t like their actions. But I do think that drawing lines and concentrating on enemies right now makes us like those Blackfords and the Justicars, and I think it does us some of the same disservice that is being done to Amy in the sense that we’re better than our critics, or at least we should be. Amy has labored and built, not to tear TAM down but to further it because she is a progressive individual, and yet her critics that haven’t done half as much for skepticism feel qualified to hate on and demean her. I want to be like her, not them, and I don’t think that Richard Carrier’s post furthers that goal. Almost every other post on Atheism+ is something I want to be a part of, but I would rather do without the smugness he’s trying to import.

  190. says

    More bad news from Louisiana’s totally fucked up voucher system for education.

    … White said his department would finally release documents detailing the vetting process that the 119 voucher schools — 99 percent of which are religious…

    …the Light City Christian Academy, located in New Orleans, had been approved for 80 students this fall, raking approximately $364,000 in state funds.

    The school is not the only Christian institution that will be receiving state monies, but it is, thus far, the only one helmed by a man who says he “wears the mantle of an Apostle and Prophet.”. Apostle Leonard Lucas, a one-term state representative, has been the subject of recent profilings for his charitable ventures, many of which are listed as “Not in Good Standing” by the Louisiana Secretary of State.

    Should Light City meet the minimum voucher standards over the first year — that is, if they receive at least a state-issued grade of D-minus — they are eligible for an additional 83 students, which, if granted, would jump the K-12 school’s size approximately 400 percent from its 2011-12 total….

    …Apostle Lucas’s academy is set to see a six-figure sum from Louisiana taxpayers in turn for offering the self-proclaimed prophet’s “vision” to the students

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/louisiana_school_vouchers_prophet.php

  191. emburii says

    Tony:

    I use a third of mayonnaise relative to volume of egg yolk, a fourth of relish (dill or sweet) relative to egg yolk, and then add mustard plus curry powder plus chili power plus paprika to taste. I mush by hand so that the relish bits are still all crisp.

  192. says

    Audley @242, yes, I did see that.

    Lots and lots of detail. You don’t need one company in the Cayman Islands, you need 8 investment opportunities.

    So far, there is a picture of of splintering one’s investments all over the place. Taxes are evaded, but legally.

    Mitt’s money picture is complicated. Salon commented:
    http://www.salon.com/2012/08/23/secret_bain_documents_reveal_that_mitt_romney_is_rich/

    …Romney is a very rich person who does weird rich people stuff with his money.

    In other words he has a lot of people who work very hard to make sure Romney has to pay as little in taxes as possible. Eight of the strangely named entities Romney has millions of dollars invested in are in the Cayman Islands. As Bain Capital Fund VIII LP helpfully points out: “Under the current laws of the Cayman Islands, there are no income, estate, transfer, sales, or other Cayman Islands taxes payable by the Partnership.”…

    Mainly, though, the takeaway from these documents is that Mitt Romney just collects millions upon millions of dollars, much of it untaxed, while sitting on his ass doing nothing to earn it, like a welfare queen.

  193. says

    Not very long ago I programmed myself to reply automatically to “How are you today?” with a big smile and a “Good. How are you?” It’s completely meaningless because like Tony says neither of us really care but it’s noticeably lubricated all kinds of interactions. Humans are super weird.

  194. says

    Not very long ago I programmed myself to reply automatically to “How are you today?” with a big smile and a “Good. How are you?” It’s completely meaningless because like Tony says neither of us really care but it’s noticeably lubricated all kinds of interactions. Humans are super weird.

    When teaching the foreign equivalents I always remember people that when they ask an acquaintance “How are you” on the street they don’t really want to know how people are. Those phrases mean ” I know you, I have a certain kind of relationship with you.”

  195. says

    Eh, when people ask me how I’m doing, I tell the truth. If I’m having a rotten day, I’ll say “rotten!, how are you?” and generally get delighted and truthful responses back.

  196. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    On meaningless greetings—the specific words in vogue are annoying, I grant, but the practice is a linguistic universal. It doesn’t gain one anything to analyze them for literal meaning. I usually respond with a friendly (but not inviting or “I’m UR FRIEND” tone) with “hi, there,” and then continue talking. This is especially helpful in the awkward cases when you suspect the salesperson really does want to hear about ur bidness.

  197. Pteryxx says

    I want a pastry bag so I can make fancy deviled eggs like on the TV!!!!

    Fill up a plain ol’ sandwich bag and cut the corner off. SOLVED

  198. says

    Pteryxx:

    Fill up a plain ol’ sandwich bag and cut the corner off. SOLVED

    Not solved. Sandwich bags don’t come with nifty decorative tips. However, pastry bags and an assortment of tips can often be found at thrift stores.

  199. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Deeply disturbing things you should know, but won’t want to, about Pussy Riot. Warning: extreme degradation of women discussed

  200. carlie says

    Not solved. Sandwich bags don’t come with nifty decorative tips. However, pastry bags and an assortment of tips can often be found at thrift stores.

    Oh yeah. I got a mint condition cookie press with all the discs for $3 at a thrift store.

    If you just want one or two tips, you can get a small pack of the plastic ones by themselves for about $2 at your local supergrocery store, and you can stuff those in the ziplock baggie corners. Check in the cake/frosting aisle. Just don’t go to the wedding section if they have one; any tips there will be jacked up in price.

  201. Nightjar says

    Caine,

    I know I’m late, but sorry to hear about poor Zoe and Carrot, more work for you which I’m betting you didn’t need. But glad they’re doing fine.

    How is Giles doing? Give him scritches from me, please. :)

  202. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Giliell:

    Those phrases mean ” I know you, I have a certain kind of relationship with you.”

    Yes! That!
    I reserve phrases like that for people that I *do* have some type of relationship with. It doesn’t have to be super duper close buddies. Just someone that I communicate with and give two shits about.

    ****

    Josh:

    On meaningless greetings—the specific words in vogue are annoying, I grant, but the practice is a linguistic universal. It doesn’t gain one anything to analyze them for literal meaning. I usually respond with a friendly (but not inviting or “I’m UR FRIEND” tone) with “hi, there,” and then continue talking. This is especially helpful in the awkward cases when you suspect the salesperson really does want to hear about ur bidness.

    Universal they may be, but useless they still are. It’s a ritual without a point. I’d rather not engage in pointless chitchat and stay quiet until I have something of substance to say. It gets frustrating though, to have people label me as gruff or arrogant because I don’t care for mindless speech. It’s not as if I criticize someone when they ask me “how are you?”. In fact, I often say the standard “I’m good.” I just don’t like the fact that it’s expected, because there’s no point to it beyond the superficial appearance of caring for someone else.
    I’d add too, that I do understand why retail shops, restaurants, hotels (etc) do ask the guests that. It makes sense in those contexts. To a man you pass on the street? No sense at all.

  203. says

    Nightjar, thank you. Giles is doing just grand. He’s still very much the laid back dude, but he’s become quite adventurous and is the head of the CCRWF. (Chez Caine Rat Wrestling Federation.)

  204. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Caine:

    Not solved. Sandwich bags don’t come with nifty decorative tips. However, pastry bags and an assortment of tips can often be found at thrift stores.

    I guess it depends on whether or not one feels the need for decorative tips. I’ve used a heavy duty sandwich bag before. Using a sharp razor, you can slice off a corner (to whatever size you prefer) and us it as a piping bag.

  205. says

    So I’m boiling the hell out of some tough beef to make it suitable for vegetable beef soup, and I’m considering hitting it with the food processor in a few minutes. I’m sort of otherwise basing this off of an instant soup mix with dehydrated veggies, because I’m poor. I’m trying to figure out what else I can add that I have on hand to make it a little less depressing. Maybe carrots and potatoes, but I’ll have to see what rehydrates first.

  206. trinioler says

    Hey all!

    I’m slowly letting specific groups of people know about this, but basically here goes.

    Inspired by A+, I’ve decided to start an organization called A+scribe(Thanks Richard!). In short, it’ll be a volunteer organization to help transcribe podcasts and videos by the A+ bloggers to help make the A+ sphere more accessible.

    If you would like to be involved, check out the google group here: A+scribe

    You will have to ask to join, and if I don’t know you, your comments will be auto-moderated. In addition, there are some basic settings changed to help protect privacy if you so desire. The posts will be public, so keep that in mind.

    Anyways, I look forward to providing everyone a valuable service. :)

  207. says

    Josh, about that post on Pussy Riot – I’m taking it with a large amount of salt, considering who wrote it and I’m going with the others, meh. It certainly doesn’t justify imprisoning them.

  208. says

    Improbable Joe:

    Just wanted to let you know, the constant cheerful rat updates do me a world of good. I’m a little too fond of small furry family members.

    Aaw, thank you. :) Add potatoes to your soup, they help fill the bellies.

  209. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Well, I didn’t read any other posts on the blog so, yeah, maybe meh.

    But for goodness’ sake, do you really think you need to tell me Pussy Riot still shouldn’t be in jail? Is it really necessary for me to have to explicitly state that I know that? Really? Me?

  210. strange gods before me ॐ says

    I’m going to quote Paul here for a segue, but this response is also for lexie and David:

    If they don’t already believe that homosexuality isn’t a choice, they simply won’t buy the premises in the papers. Need to attack that first, but it seems like a chicken and egg deal. They won’t buy the assumptions of the papers unless homosexuality isn’t a choice, but how to convince them that it’s not a choice without the studies using sociological data?

    I think that a big reason for believing it’s a choice is to justify moral condemnation, and a big reason for wanting to justify moral condemnation is the conflation of disgust with morality.

    So it’s helpful to get the person thinking of gayness less in terms of sex and more in terms of love, which will reduce the tendency to react with condemnation.

    For that, use sentimental appeals. Talk about same-sex couples you know.

    +++++
    It would be awesome to have a resource collecting stories of same sex love — anybody know of any?

    Anybody want to write their own for our wiki? Doesn’t have to be spectacular or anything. The mundane and quotidian is desireable in this case. This is a chance to talk about your second favorite topic (after yourself ;)

    Note that text on our wiki uses this Creative Commons license, although I’ll “discourage” (ban and revert) anyone who tries to alter the meaning of the original text on-wiki. Only trivial proof-reading would be permitted.

  211. says

    Josh:

    Well, I didn’t read any other posts on the blog so, yeah, maybe meh.

    You might want to do that, it’s classic radfem, complete with transgender hate.

    I don’t have much posting time, so pardon my briefly saying it didn’t justify imprisonment. More to the point, I rarely agree with the radfem viewpoint on anything and given their particular biases, there’s simply no way they will view Pussy Riot in a fair or non-biased way. Frinst., as a woman, I wasn’t the least bit insulted by the name Pussy Riot. I’m sex positive and I do not have the same problems with porn that certain radfems do. And so on.

  212. says

    Settle down Josh, have a Geritol** and a smile. I was making my position known, not questioning yours.

    **I’m making fun of your age because I’m younger than you by a grand total of less than 40 days.

  213. strange gods before me ॐ says

    A ‘cryptic’ tweet from Richard Dawkins:

    Boycott websites that deliberately wind up false controversy in order to generate advertising revenue

    Obviously he’s saying we should boycott the RDF.

    Good on him.

  214. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Hoo boy, transhating radfems. Uck. Thanks for letting me know (for bitter values of “thanks”).

    Joe, I’d take my Geritol if your mom hadn’t eaten them all. Can I have one of your Centrum Silvers?

  215. says

    Amused @201: I’ve never lived in Moscow (I would never want to because the vibe there is so aggressive and it’s an unpleasant city, in my experience) so I have no claim to vast experience there. I do go at least once or twice a month to visit friends, or travel out of country or see my gf’s fabulous Papua New Guniea exhibit at the Darwin Museum (a small bit of boasting).

    Some people there are very rude, это правда, but I do believe хамство (with your added description beyond “rude”–a deep-seated hatred for anyone not your friend) is a broad brush to paint. Even in Moscow. I’ve not seen excessive nastiness. (Any more than in any really big city.)

    Caveat: I am not Russian. I am American and I am white. So I generally don’t find myself fighting the everyday fights of the Tajiks or Armenians or Kazakhs. I see them fighting every freakin’ day I’m on the Metro (which is every day). I know I have a wide berth of privilege.

    I live in Sankt-Peterburg, and I love this city.

    Tony @206 – I love Russians because they are just so blunt. I fell in love with Russians in 2005 when I worked with them at the world’s worst retailer’s online component.

    At first, their “Why do you ask me how I do when you don’t care?” scared me but then I thought, yeah, what is that? (Of course, I did care because I am terrifically interested in other people.)

    Russians will tell you immediately if you have some greenery stuck in your teeth. They will say “That shirt looks terrible on you”. But they’re honest people. I find this a plus and not a negative.

    I’ve taught English to over 200 Russians now and I love every new lesson with new Russians. I find Russians fascinating. They are brutally honest. But I’ve never found them cruel. Their worst crime, in my opinion? Apathy.

  216. says

    Frinst., as a woman, I wasn’t the least bit insulted by the name Pussy Riot. I’m sex positive and I do not have the same problems with porn that certain radfems do. And so on.

    Actually, i was way more offended by the fact that they managed to discard a huge part of my sexuality in a simple half sentence. Yeah, I’m straight, sue me.

    Actually, I see this post as kind of the Radfem equivalent of the Assange noise. It doesn’t matter if the only reason they go after Assange when they usually don’t give a shit about rape victims is because they want to have a piss at him, he’s accused of rape and I want him to face court.
    And I don’t give a damn if people support Pussy Riot because they’re young and pretty and sexy, I want them out of prison NOW. Also, even if every word in that article is 100% true, I doubt that most people who support them or journalists who report about the case even know. Really, Patriarchy is not a conspiracy.

  217. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Fucking Dawkins. Oh, I long for the days of yesteryear when I didn’t know what a sanctimonious, passive-aggressive ass he is on feminist issues.

  218. Nutmeg says

    While I was driving to BC and back, I went through all of the Radiolab full episodes that I hadn’t listened to yet. I’m now running a little low on interesting podcasts. I know there’s been at least one edition of TET where people gave podcast recommendations.

    1. Did anyone bookmark that thread, and could you post a link to it?

    2. Or, could one of you search geniuses explain how you find things in old threads when you don’t have a good idea of when they happened? Some of you are impressively good at that, and I’m not good at it at all. Is there a more efficient way than opening every edition of TET and searching for “podcast”?

    3. Or, does anyone have any podcast suggestions right now? I’d especially appreciate recommendations for podcasts that are reasonably cheerful – I need to increase my happy news:sad news ratio.

  219. says

    Josh, that’s unfair. Everyone who knows my mom knows that she’s a martyr who would rather die than take someone else’s vitamins. My dad on the other hand… “Ooh, free? I’ll take three!”

  220. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Ewwwwwwwwwww. . . ‘gummi’ anything. Massive texture problem for me.

  221. says

    Living in Russia, I’m not sure what to believe, of course. But I’ve been told by my youngster students, “Look at how things were set up. There were cameras there, there were mike stands there, there were guitar stands there. There were media! It’s a publicity stunt. To distract us from other Putin crimes.”

    Giliell @280

    Actually, i was way more offended by the fact that they managed to discard a huge part of my sexuality in a simple half sentence. Yeah, I’m straight, sue me.

    Pussies can be straight or gay. I’m not quite sure I understand you. Unless I misunderstand you, which is likely.

    My mother is German and I can speak German but not on the level I can speak English. (By the way, I applaud your English. Knowing two languages fluently is what I’ve always wanted.)

  222. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Pteryxx,

    I suggest that a hypothetical A+ discussion space, most likely a forum, should have a 101 space where education (and probably flaming as shown necessary) can take place. Then, every single one of these politey-reasonabley ‘but lying/Marxist/what if’ posts should be summarily moved there from their original threads

    Did you seriously just proclaim that Marxism is off-limits?

    If somebody cites Barbara Ehrenreich, that’s a foul?

    You know maureenbrian is a Marxist, right?

  223. Paul says

    Dawkins’ tweet is a good example of a new meme that appears to be forming among the haters:
    Atheism+ is a ‘marketing ploy’ to drive traffic to FtB.

    This is disgusting. This is the same claim that has continuously been leveled at PZ since Crackergate. Dawkins was all with defacing the cracker, but opposing racism/sexism in word and action? Too much. Yuck.

  224. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    trinioler:
    What a fantastic idea! Kudos!
    ****
    Joe:

    Just wanted to let you know, the constant cheerful rat updates do me a world of good. I’m a little too fond of small furry family members.

    ^^^^This.
    I agree completely.
    In fact, something you [Caine] wrote earlier today made me want to get a rat (because 3 dogs, and 4 cats in a 3 bedroom/1 bath house are not enough animal companions).

    re: Soup-do you have any beans or lentils you could add?

  225. says

    Dawkins can go eat a giant bowl of fuck.

    Speaking of bowls, my $5 package of soup mix with dehydrated meat and noodles and veggies? Turns out to be a $5 bag of crushed bouillon. I read the package ingredients, so apparently I got a defective bag. Joy!

  226. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Josh:
    My word.
    There are delicate ladies here. They might blush or ::gosh:: break if they heard such language. giggle/hee hee/snort

  227. says

    Tony:

    In fact, something you [Caine] wrote earlier today made me want to get a rat (because 3 dogs, and 4 cats in a 3 bedroom/1 bath house are not enough animal companions).

    Oh my. Well, besides the rats, there are the 2 monster dogs and 5 cats in a 3 bedroom, 2 bath. In fairness, the downstairs is monstrous huge.

  228. says

    If I’m having a rotten day, I’ll say “rotten!, how are you?” and generally get delighted and truthful responses back.

    I do that a) with people who are actually acquaintances, frx. that one chick I always say “hi” to coming in and out of class but don’t really know well, and b) when I feel comfortable enough to wing it if they ask “oh, rotten, why’s that?”

    Total strangers like cashiers I don’t see regularly get the “Good! How are you?” script treatment.

  229. ImaginesABeach says

    strange gods – Minnesotans United for All Families (www.mnunited.org) has a great section called “This is what family looks like.” Also, Wipe Out Homophobia’s fbook page has lots of photo albums full of pictures of people in love.

  230. says

    Kristinc, I do that with everyone who has to do the ‘friendly greeting’ crap. It might be a bit different here, even in Bismarck, you tend to see the same people over and over at places you shop, and so forth. It’s a very small town atmosphere, which, I will grant, is annoying as all fuck when you don’t want to talk. (I just let Mister talk when I don’t want to, he enjoys that sort of thing.)

  231. says

    My #291 was in regards to Pussy Riot. No one here believes it wasn’t a publicity stunt staged to gain sympathy for the church. And I agree, at least, judging by the media here.

    “THE ORTHODOX CHURCH HAS BEEN DEFILED!” “YOUNG PEOPLE QUESTION GOD!” All babushkii will rile their small villages together.

    You have to take everything broadcasted from Russia with four truckloads of salt. It’s never true.

  232. Rey Fox says

    Atheism+ is a ‘marketing ploy’ to drive traffic to FtB.

    You mean…we’re trying to draw attention to ourselves and our causes?

    SHOCK HORROR!

  233. trinioler says

    Thanks tony. I’ll keep on plugging it around hereabouts. I told Jen about it, and she said she’d get back to me with stuff, but she’s rather busy, so I went ahead and started the efforts.

  234. says

    Ah, here’s the article I was thinking of. For background, the longtime mayor of Albany, Jerry Jennings, has been a strong supporter of marriage equality and was eager to start performing marriage ceremonies as soon as it was legally binding.

    The first couple Mayor Jerry Jennings was expected to marry Sunday morning was to be the private ceremony for Barbara Laven, chairwoman of the city’s Human Rights Commission, and Dale Getto, a principal in the city school system. Jennings and Laven are longtime friends.

    Jennings was eager to perform the state’s first same-sex marriage when the law went into effect at 12:01 a.m. He opened City Hall Saturday night and was expected to begin marriage ceremonies shortly after the landmark legislation took effect.

    http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/At-last-they-say-We-do-1561623.php

  235. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I’ve never used kill-file because it just isn’t my style, however, is there a Chrome version?

    I haven’t tried it, but some people have gotten the Firefox version to work in Chrome. There’s some chatter about it at the bottom of this page.

  236. ImaginesABeach says

    I got my Surly-Ramics today! GirlChild plans to wear her new “Geek Girls Rule” one for the first day of school. She will be the envy of all her peers. I’m wearing “Learn something new every day” today.

  237. says

    Did you seriously just proclaim that Marxism is off-limits?

    pretty sure that was meant to signify people who accuse every and anythingof being socialist/communist/marxist should be shunted off into the n00b section. not the actual socialists/communists/marxists.

  238. ImaginesABeach says

    kristinc – if I were a pair of expensive sewing shears, I would be at someone else’s house.

  239. A. R says

    OK, I need to horde-source a diagnosis for myself. Today I took my BP and it turned out to be 189/131 (HR 95, SpO2 99%). So my supervisor sent me downstairs to the ER, where my BP was about 170/102. BMP, CBC, CXR, EKG, and UA were all WAL. When I was discharged (about five hours later) my BP was 135/99, HR 91, SpO2 98%. Ideas?

  240. says

    Kristinc:

    if you were a pair of expensive sewing shears with no backup pair, where would you be right now?

    1) Kitchen
    2) Living room coffee table
    3) Drafting table

    Or, worst case scenario, Mister’s workbench

    If it were my pair of expensive sewing shears…

  241. says

    “Are you fucking kidding me. Rapists can assert custody and visitation rights to the child they conceived through rape?”

    Yup. You wouldn’t want to deprive a child of a heterosexual father, would you?

    Another good reason to get an abortion.

  242. Pteryxx says

    random good news from BB:

    Mark recently wrote about a fantastic front yard veggie garden in Drummondville, Quebec, which local officials wanted destroyed. Alejandro De La Cruz writes to say that they’ve backed down: not only will the garden stay, but the town publicly announced that it will implement new guidelines which explicitly permit it.

    http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/front-yard-gardener-wins-over.html

    Yes! Victory and more importantly, precedent, for yard gardeners!

    A.R: eep. I take it your BP’s normally, er, normal? Sometimes oddball things like sitting hunched over for a long time can cause transient spikes.

  243. A. R says

    Pteryxx: Yeah, my BP is normally 110-130/60-80. I had a pretty stressful day (Someone decided that giving a Manic Bipolar a call light was a good idea), but that really doesn’t account for a severely elevated diastolic pressure.

  244. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    improbable joe

    Keep on adding to it. If you have too much, freeze some of it. I find that adding more vegetables usually helps. I put the original pot in the fridge, and take out a daily serving. I add to that. Makes each day a bit different.

    You can put in a raw egg (or egg white only) when the broth is very hot, and stir that in. Adds some protein but little flavour, so not really conflicting with whatever you have. I find eggs to be quite cheap. You can have something on the side, like sardines on toast, if you like sardines at all. That is good, too, and extends the meal. To me,the best thing is to add variety each day. A handful of pearl barley really sets up a soup to practically stew levels, or a handful of rice, or both.

    Soup is the blank canvas on which you paint the flavours. I sometimes went 5 days with one original soup pot, but no meat in the base. Soon as the soup cools enough, into the fridge with it, then take out some and get creative.

    /if you knew all these tricks, sorry for repeating.

  245. chigau (違う) says

    Caine

    Amelia is making me crazed, Christ, she’s bloody-minded.

    That’s my girl!

  246. says

    Gilliel, I am very interested in your apple pockets recipe. Specifically, the yeast dough – it sounds potentially healthier than pastry, as well as delicious.

    I’m mixed about Richard Carrier. I mean we really DO want to say GTFO to the douchebags, and it’s awesome seeing his pushback against the Slimepit talking points. But he isn’t open to listening to alternative points of view; he’s so utterly convinced he’s got it right already. Love emburii’s term “allies with blemishes” – Carrier also exemplifies it!

    Tony, thumbprint biscuits (cookies) have an indent in the centre that is filled with jam (jelly). Guess how you sully make the indent. Also, teh Poopyhead has admitted to pineapple & jalapeño pizza. And I love coconut, so I’ll have your share. As long as it’s in that bitter dark chocolate mentioned earlier, not the nasty milk stuff. While I’m at it. I’ll also have your raisins as long as they are real nice big proper dark raisins, not those icky sultanas (golden raisins) *spit*.

    As to the “how’s it going”, I really don’t understand why it’s so hard to just treat it as the greeting ritual it is, and adopt a ritual answer. If “fine thanks” is too dishonest for you, then use something else noncommittal like “oh, getting by” or “not so great, but how are you?” or whatever.

    Caine, I was so relieved when I went back to the previous thread to discover that Zoe & Carrot are just sick, not dead. Phew!! All the “oh noes” and “so sorrys” had me thinking the worst for a while. Best wishes to the little beasties.

    kristinc, I would be between the couch cushions. Or possibly in my shoe, which is how I mysteriously found my new Surlyramics pendant this morning, after I lost it last night.

  247. broboxley OT says

    Josh, people are whacked about home love. I saw a racist act in Ohio and posted about it elsewhere, and I was jumped by people insisting it must have been Kentucky immigrants. When I found an article in the local paper about an appalling racist group act and the town in question being one of the homes of the underground railroad (Hudson Ohio) the attacks got rancid. What can I say? People are blind to many things.

  248. says

    Lyn M,

    I accidentally added noodles to it, which means it will become a mushy lump of crap overnight. I normally cook the noodles separate and add them to the bowl before serving, but I screwed that up in my panic over the generally weirdness of the soup.

  249. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Alethea:

    As to the “how’s it going”, I really don’t understand why it’s so hard to just treat it as the greeting ritual it is, and adopt a ritual answer.

    I don’t want to be part of that silly ritual though. It’s hard to avoid it, however, since you get funny looks when you *don’t* respond. It’s treated like this is something you *have* to do. If it’s something I *have* to do, it better be for a good reason. Insincere rituals are not a good reason.

  250. says

    Can I try a 13 year old’s questionnaire on you? I have always found the answers interesting. I don’t think it’s woo-oo.

    1. You are walking in the woods. What do the woods look like?

    2. You find a path what does the path look like?

    3. Are there animals in the woods? What do they look like?

    4. Are the animal friendly or not friendly?

    5. What kind of animals are they?

    6. You find some sort of container in the woods. It could be a tiny cup, it could be a humongous cauldron. What is it?

    7. You find a fork in the woods. Forward, Right or Left. Which way do you go? (And what is you primary hand, left or right?)

    8. Further along the road you find a body of water. It could be a puddle, it could be an ocean, What is it?

    9. When you find the body of water do you get in it? Or not?

    10. You find a key. Is it a tiny door key or is it a key in your mind? Or a key you don’t recognize or a skeleton key?

    11. You run into a farm. There’s a “home” building there. You can see it. What does it look like? Are there lights inside or is it dark? Are there people waiting for you inside? Do you go in?

    12. There’s a fence all around the farm, but it seems familiar. Can you jump over it? Or will you stay inside? Outside the fence there is nothing you can see but nothing terrible either.

    This is actually a paraphrasing of an “OH, you’re HOMO?! We can help you” weekend I once went to at the behest of my mom (I forgive her, it was a long time ago). BUT I still love the questions.

    I really want to know about you. If you have the time and interest….

  251. says

    SGBM:

    Speech is or is not ableist — contributes to privilege and oppression in the world — regardless of any person’s opinion about the matter.

    And some people’s opinions that certain terms are ableist may be either factually wrong — or moot if the term is, like “weak,” too useful to the language to be removed therefrom.

    Emburii:

    But I do think that drawing lines and concentrating on enemies right now makes us like those Blackfords and the Justicars,

    This is, quite bluntly, sanctimonious bullshit. Lines need to be drawn, and actual enemies need to be called out. There’s a reason the laborers of the 1930s sang a song called “Which Side Are You On?”, not a song called “Let’s Not Stoop to Their Level.”

    Josh, Caine pre-empted what I was going to say: that R@dical Hub is well known as a nasty den of transphobic radfems. I would not be surprised at anything that had befallen Pussy Riot in prison, but I am loath to give that website any clicks.

    Let me guess, that was Erik, storming out because people weren’t showing Buffalo enough deference? [checks] Yep. Sheesh… Your responses to him were precisely on target, Josh.

    I passed through Cheektowaga last weekend. It’s… a freakin’ suburb. Like hundreds of others around the country. Maybe Erik ought to travel more. It might cure him of his bad case of boosterism.

    Also, I see that I has a hater. Yes, the Nokmim were just as bad as the Nazis!! And Randay seems to not have seen my reference to Israelis oppressing Palestinians. Think he’s got some issues with Jews, maybe?

    Tony, not all conversation is meant to be meaningful. Some of it exists as a way to dispel tensions and put people at ease, the way grooming works among hairier primates (even when the primates aren’t particularly nit-ridden). It’s fine not to feel comfortable with small talk; I’m not very good at it. But it has a social purpose, and dismissals of it as “pointless” smack to me of “OMG, UR ALL SHEEPLE!!”

  252. broboxley OT says

    “hows it going?” the correct answer is “not worth a shit how about you” although “hangin hows yours?” is also acceptable for company where swearing is frowned upon

  253. carlie says

    trinioler – I am very interested in accessibility issues and transcripts, but there is no way in hell I’m getting on Google+. :( Other ways to contact? I’m at carliesinternet at yahoo.

  254. says

    Chigau:

    That’s my girl!

    She excels at it, too! She does make me laugh.

    Alethea, thank you. It’s still very up in the air just how long they will live, most folks who know about this aren’t terribly optimistic, but you never know.

    ***
    It does not help that baby food prunes are the colour of shit. Just sayin’.

  255. says

    Krasnaya Koshka, that is a different version of a “fortune telling” method I learned in a book when I was a kid. From time to time I ask those questions of myself and it’s interesting that as my circumstances change so do the images I see in my mind’s eye.

  256. strange gods before me ॐ says

    And some people’s opinions that certain terms are ableist may be either factually wrong

    Indeed, and some people’s opinions that certain terms aren’t ableist are factually wrong.

    or moot if the term is, like “weak,” too useful to the language to be removed therefrom.

    Your opinion about what’s moot is also not based in anything factual.

    I happen to agree with you in the case of “weak”, but my agreement — like all the declarations you regularly make about what degree of language “we” should put up with — does not make anything okay.

    Individuals put up with what they can bear to put up with.

  257. says

    I dashed off a post the other day about a strange Pussy Riot op-ed, and now I feel compelled to respond a little to the radfem piece:

    Now while I support without ambiguity the liberation of Pussy Riot’s members, it’s worth pausing for a minute to ask ourselves, as radical feminists, what the political dynamics are here. Why would Western media denounce so passionately the repression of feminists in Russia, when it usually only diffuses information that supports male supremacy and patriarchy?

    Because criticism of Putin is a standard theme in the “Western” corporate media? Because they think or feel, rightly or wrongly, that Putin is a greater political threat than a punk band? Because they don’t think anyone will pay attention to the group’s politics, but will appreciate their brave stand for human rights? Because it sells? Because human motivation is complex and multifaceted, and not given to perfect foresight?

    Oh. It has to be because they’re not really feminists. The evidence of that is that their repression has been denounced by men. QED.

    You can measure the degree of feminism of an action by how men react to it, and if men collectively cheer and celebrate it, then you can be pretty sure there’s something wrong about it, or that it doesn’t somehow support our liberation from men.

    What?! Now feminism is measured solely by male responses? Wait…not even, since no diversity of male responses is recognized – men are a monolith. They’re also never wrong, never ignorant, and never have other immediate interests that lead them to celebrate potentially subversive actions. Women can’t judge the “degree of feminism” of their own actions, and this is measured by how men react. Wow.

    The whole thing just discounts the women’s perspectives entirely. They might well be right about these people – I know almost nothing about PR*, but they seem to be making some big assumptions on the basis of the notion that women have no real agency.

    *Pussy Riot, not Project Runway. Sadly, I’m quite well informed and opinionated about the latter. “Gunnar, I don’t love this one. Explain.”

  258. says

    Hello Horde *waves*

    I thought I’d jump into the Lounge after reading the Introductions thread, and I’m doing this without having read anything upthread of me (sorry).

    I’ve been here a couple times before to ask about recommendations for some history books and Thanksgiving recipes. Also, I guess I’ve never noticed the little checkbox below the comment box where I can subscribe to followup comments.

    So anyway, the reason I’m here is to ask you all about depression. I noticed that there were many people in the Introductions thread that said they were sufferers. I’m not sure how many of them frequent the Lounge, but I thought I’d give this a shot anyway.

    My significant other was diagnosed a few years ago with depression and social anxiety and he’s currently on meds. I guess he’s stable for now, but he does get suicidal on occasion (seems mostly around holidays/his birthday). He seen psychiatrists and therapists in the past, but was largely dissatisfied with the experiences. It was combination of not seeing any results fast enough (for him) and a sense of condescension on the part of the professional.

    Let me also give you a little more background about him: He’s 26. He’s been kind of an underachiever, just barely doing enough to get a high school diploma. He has self-esteem issues which is most likely due to a somewhat disfiguring burn on his arm and possibly partially due to coming from a divorced family. He was in a vocational school and doing an externship when the stress of it caused him a kind of mental break-down. After that he got pretty suicidal and I’ve had to have him committed (51/50) a few times because I was afraid he was going to seriously hurt himself. Like I said, he’s currently stable, but he did mention he still thinks about suicide often.

    So how do you guys deal with it? And for the occasionally-suicidal ones: how do you find meaning and reason to keep living? His thing is that he feels nothing interests him in life and he’s simply passing the time with games and other random things on the the internet. He feels like he’s a waste of space and that he’s leeching off me, so he thinks that it would improve everyone’s situation if he just died. I do think that it’s his life and he should do with it what he wants, so it’s hard for me to give good reasons against suicide. I mean, I don’t want him to die, and his family would be sad if he died (though he doesn’t believe it, and he says they’d get over it, which would be true). I guess some of the challenge is that we are non-religious (though he wouldn’t identify as an atheist, he just doesn’t care about religion), so we know there’s no inherent meaning in life (I don’t think he cares to make any meaning either) and that when you die, you are just gone. I don’t know of a good humanist/secular way to address suicide and depression. I know there are other resources out there, but I really like this community and would value the input of its members.

    I understand I did unload a lot of heavy info at once. If it’s better to talk about this elsewhere, you can contact me by email too (jaybgee at gmail.com) I may have made my situation sound more dire than it actually is, but I’m just looking for insight or suggestions that might help.

  259. says

    kristinc, ~ringy dingy~ @345 – My mom gave this questionnaire to me when I was 15–when it dawned on her that I was gay.

    Then I was bombarded with religious folk.

    But I first read it in some book when I was 13. So I was familiar with it. (I wish I could remember which book I read it in but I was such a book worm from 5 to 13, that probably will never happen.)

    “Ringy Dingy” makes me think of Lily Tomlin.

  260. trinioler says

    Hey Carlie.

    For now this is a temporary solution. I was waiting for Jen to get back to me, but she’s really quite busy at the moment, so I went ahead.

    You can send emails to a.plus.scribe (at) gmail. if you’d like. I don’t think you have to join Google+ to get on the google group, but I’ll take a look for ya. :)

  261. broboxley OT says

    #348 finding a reason to live when everything seems like a bucket of crap. The solution is different for everyone. Mine is a steady diet of acdc/heavy metal and when I feel really bad the song “shiney diamonds” does the trick. The essence of the song is that all great things may happen days after you call life quits.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtTH4Jmrhcg warning use headphones at work

    Living is the ability to eat your shit and act like you like it, and sometimes good things happen anyway

    Others here will have more useful answers

  262. trinioler says

    Carlie,

    Took a look and it doesn’t seem as if you can avoid the G+. BUT, you don’t need a real nym anymore for the google accounts. Small reassurance, I know. :(

  263. thunk, sour grape says

    Hia.

    I’m in that weird state where I’ve finished the necessary stuff but don’t want to do the non-strictly necessary stuff. So I’m bored.

  264. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Ms. Daisy:

    But it has a social purpose, and dismissals of it as “pointless” smack to me of “OMG, UR ALL SHEEPLE!!”

    I apologize if this is how I’ve been coming across. I do not feel this way (if anything, it’s more a case of “I don’t get this”).

  265. broboxley OT says

    petard, meet mr hoist

    Gawker Media is part of a shell company incorporated in the Cayman Islands. Gawker’s money lives in the same neighborhood as Romney’s money. Call it bipartisanship.

    As John Cassidy relates in The New Yorker, Gawker’s finances are “organized like an international money-laundering operation.” For example:

    Much of its international revenues are directed through Hungary, where [bossman Nick] Denton’s mother hails from, and where some of the firm’s techies are located. But that is only part of it. Recently, [Felix] Salmon reports, the various Gawker operations—Gawker Media LLC, Gawker Entertainment LLC, Gawker Technology LLC, Gawker Sales LLC—have been restructured to bring them under control of a shell company based in the Cayman Islands, Gawker Media Group Inc.

    Why would a relatively small media outfit based in Soho choose to incorporate itself in a Caribbean locale long favored by insider dealers, drug cartels, hedge funds, and other entities with lots of cash they don’t want to advertise? The question virtually answers itself, but for those unversed in the intricacies of international tax avoidance Salmon spells it out: “The result is a company where 130 U.S. employees eat up the lion’s share of the the U.S. revenues, resulting in little if any taxable income, while the international income, the franchise value of the brands, and the value of the technology all stays permanently overseas, untouched by the I.R.S.”

    So we have evil offshoring — exploting those poor marginalized Hungarian nerds — baroque tax-minimizing schemes, assets that will not be repatriated because of U.S. taxes

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/314853/gawker-and-bain-and-caymans-kevin-d-williamson

  266. says

    Jamie,

    Honestly, I’m more concerned with you than with your significant other. One of the things that is very important when being in a relationship with someone with mental illness is that you take care of your own mental health, and that you don’t sacrifice your own well-being for that of your partner.

    Do you have a support system? Do you have a way to ensure your own health and safety and well-being? It is great that you want to be a supportive partner, but if you aren’t whole and healthy then you can’t and shouldn’t allow other people to depend on you.

  267. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Honestly, I’m more concerned with you than with your significant other. One of the things that is very important when being in a relationship with someone with mental illness is that you take care of your own mental health, and that you don’t sacrifice your own well-being for that of your partner.

    Do you have a support system? Do you have a way to ensure your own health and safety and well-being? It is great that you want to be a supportive partner, but if you aren’t whole and healthy then you can’t and shouldn’t allow other people to depend on you.

    Not “seconded.” Squared.

  268. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Jamie:
    Welcome in. Glad to have you.
    The situation with your significant other sounds complicated. Personally, I’ve thought of suicide twice in my life. Each time, the thought was fleeting, lasting no more than 10-20 seconds (obviously I didn’t measure the exact amount of time, but I know I didn’t wallow in suicidal thoughts for too long).
    There have been times in my life that I’ve felt like the space I’m taking up in this world could be put to better use by someone else, but those few times didn’t occur during any bouts of depression or suicidal thoughts.
    The death of my best friend a few years ago, and the difficulty moving on for so many people (myself included) solidified in me the desire to NOT take my life because I saw (and felt) the grief and sorrow so many had in the wake of his passing. I don’t want to intentionally put my friends and family through that.
    That’s probably not the answer you were looking for, but I hope it gives you a new perspective.
    ****
    Oh, and no need for apologies [for discussing a topic this intense and personal]. One of the many functions of this space is a support group.

  269. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    broboxley:
    from your link @360:

    He says, “Why is there a difference between someone who is 20 years old and their life is in danger and someone who is nine months in utero.”

    Wow, he really sees no difference between a fetus and a 20 year human being??!!

  270. carlie says

    trinioler – well, rats. Let me know if there’s anything I can do from the outside.

  271. broboxley OT says

    #362 Tony, its weird, I was in West Palm Beach during the 2k nonsense and the biggest race besides presidential was for head dog catcher and all the ads were about being pro choice and anti choice for humans, they didnt giva a rats ass about animals at all. People are notional to say the least. If I remember the anti abortion candidate won the dog catcher position probable elected by the same people who voted for buchannon inadvertently

  272. ImaginesABeach says

    chigau – I’m a heretic too. I’m a little bummed out by that, it seems like my life must be pretty dull if that’s the best I can do.

  273. lexie says

    Thanks Patricia, tkreacher, Portia, Paul, David Marjanović, Tony, Rey Fox and SGBM, biscuits for you all. David and Paul, showing her some of the studies I know and was talking about, was going to be my next step but since she said she doesn’t believe in statistics I feel it would be pointless since she wouldn’t actually read them or evaluate them properly she can just repeat that it’s just statistics. I think the dismissal of statistics is partly true incomprehension, as I know that she hasn’t taken any statistics courses and she hasn’t taken any classes on generally analysing papers, but I also think that Patricia might be right too in that it’s just an easy way for her to dismiss any evidence she doesn’t like. I may in future try this tack as I have tried it in the past with some success but I’ve generally only had success when the person was receptive to scientific evidence and while I thought she would be she doesn’t seem to be.

    Rey Fox, I totally agree with you and I think I may give it a try. While in theory I like this approach in the past what I get back is (in advance I am sorry for writing this because it is hateful) “You don’t choose to be normal (really sorry I DON’T THINK THIS), heterosexuality is normal so unless you want to do something weird then you don’t choose it” and this makes me feel sick. Or I get “but I knew someone/I’ve heard of someone who was in a straight relationship/marriage and then they became gay (or vice versa someone who was in a same sex relationship and is now in a straight relationship) therefore it’s a choice” (yes apparently bisexuality doesn’t occur not to mention that half these stories including ones of people I know are from people who are religious and old they are really gay but they married because it was illegal to be gay when they were young plus they were trying to do what god said). None the less worth a shot since I’m not getting anywhere with the evidence based approach.

    SGBM, I agree with you that she is probably conflating morality with personal disgust. I’ll try telling stories rather than citing evidence as I think you may be right and humanising the situation rather than just talking about “the gays” might work. I might team that approach with some basics on how to determine what is moral and how to actually discuss moral issues.

    Tony, Thank you so much for your account. I don’t know what to write back, I loved reading your advice and hope I can use it to help me. They wouldn’t use language that I could tell them not to use (they don’t swear or use any bad language and luckily this includes derogatory terms) but hopefully I can get them to change their minds because I don’t particularly want to get rid of even more friends.

  274. broboxley OT says

    if Romney wins the presidency does that mean a Quaker will be his bagman? Just wondering

  275. ImaginesABeach says

    I will be seeing members of the HusBeach’s extended family on Saturday. One couple, Jim and Bill, have been together since the early 1970s. I’ve been with the HusBeach since 1997. I don’t understand how anyone can say that my relationship is more valid than their relationship.

  276. Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net says

    improbable joe

    I accidentally added noodles to it, which means it will become a mushy lump of crap overnight. I normally cook the noodles separate and add them to the bowl before serving, but I screwed that up in my panic over the generally weirdness of the soup.

    Yep, you’re done. Like dinner, actually.

    Well, I hope my five day soup plan might suggest stuff to you. Bulk foods stores sell pearl barley really cheap, and does it ever thicken up a soup/stew. I liked to buy one whole chicken, then cut it into four quarters. One for each of four days. The fifth day, I used the neck, any giblets the cat didn’t get, the back or other trim from the quarters and wing tips. Those added, along with the bones, made for a very tasty fifth day after I let it simmer awhile. I kept the raw meat frozen, and the bones in a bag in the fridge. I actually liked this and made it when I had money enough to make other stuff. It was just so damned good. Preferred spices: bay leaf, cracked pepper and salt, sometimes some butter. A handful of rice works in place of the pearl barley if you don’t like pearl barley. An added egg or egg white ups the protein count if you need to.

    I would cook this on Sunday, have some then, and continue eating it until Thursday. On Friday, well, it was go crazy day as I bought groceries then. Those grade c boiling chickens got me through a lot of years on a tight budget.

  277. ibyea says

    @chigau
    Yay, we are in the same place. Now we get to hang out together while gnashing our teeth in pain. :)

  278. lexie says

    Hi Jamie,

    Firstly hugs if they are ok for you or pat on back/shoulder or just chocolate. I know the picture from both sides and I’ll try to help but I’ve far from got it figured out. My sister has severe depression she’s now 30 and has had it since she was about 13, she has attempted suicide a couple of times and has had to be admitted to physch hospitals. She was married but it didn’t go well and she’s now divorced, so I was before the marriage and still am her main contact person because she doesn’t have a lot of friends. The other side is I have bipolar disorder and have personally contemplated and attempted suicide.

    My first piece of advice is based on my experiences, don’t expect him to get cured of it, it may happen but it may not, try instead to focus on the situation getting better not going away. There are a couple of reasons I think this helps for some people the bad thoughts don’t go away you can learn to get some control over them and become a bit happier so by setting the goal of things just being better is realistic and it also puts less pressure on the sick person as no-one is expecting dramatic change just a little bit. So I suppose from this perspective enjoy the good days and just aim for more good days understand that all good days may never happen.

    My second piece of advice is to try to give life purpose. I know that without god life can seem meaningless, in fact my sister has just “found god” which I think in part is her trying to impose meaning since she’s been quite unwell lately. However, you can have a life which has non-supernatural meaning. How to implement this really depends on how stable your partner is. If he is quite stable then I would recommend starting to volunteer for a charity (a happy(ish) one not a refuge for battered women or an animal shelter which puts down dogs and cats). By volunteering you can develop a purpose, well it helped me a bit, in part because it at least got me out of the house and partly because I was doing something constructive which was helping others and I had something to do. The other advantage of volunteering at least with good organisations you get a lot of praise and thanks which makes you realise that you are a good person and that you do have worth (yep I know that sounds silly but it kind of works).

    Try and create some good times which even if you are depressed can at least be less bad times, times which are worth living for. Try to keep in mind what will be stressful, even if it seems like a fun thing to you. I also have self esteem problems and socialisation or going out can cause me far more stress than any enjoyment of the activity. Hiking in national parks and enjoying picnics is a personal favourite of mine because I can be outside without seeing anyone and therefore in my stupid mind no one is judging me (yes I really am that silly, obviously everyone else on the street is walking past thinking what a dreadful person I am). Again though what you can do to create good moments is limited by how stable he is if he’s not up to going out try to make a nice night at home (not every night but regularly), rent a movie, make a nice dinner or whatever. Even if he’s in hospital there are things you could do e.g. bring in a nice meal (hospital food is awful), if he’s allowed out go to the movies etc.

    This one sounds a bit odd but even though he probably won’t believe you just keep telling him you love him, not over bearingly so if you say it all the time then he will know that you are just saying it to make him feel better just slip it in not in those same words occasionally or even not in words at all just make tea/coffee/whatever for him etc, having something said over and over does often sink in even if your trying to fight it at the start. Also try to get some other people to also let him know (friends or family). This one is a little complicated because if it’s done in the way it normally is i.e. the first time everyone sees the person they go “oh how are you, are you ok?” “you know we love you so much, we’d be devastated if we lost you” firstly it’s unlikely he would believe it and secondly it just made me feel worse. Just slip in the messages of love into ordinary conversation so that he can see them but it’s not blatantly obvious what your doing or it doesn’t seem like your trying to make him feel too guilty to commit suicide (I realise this probably isn’t your intent but from the other side that’s normally how it feels, “they’re saying I’m being selfish”, it is possible that he thinks you would all be better off without him because he’s burdening you and thus it’s selfless).

    Ok onto you, it must be really difficult for you and you need support too. Do you have people who you can talk to when things are tough because the least helpful thing would be to bottle it up or let out frustration on your partner that will not help you or him. I hope you do have someone you can talk to about you, if not keep venting here, or if you want you can email me whenever (2lexiebrown@gmail.com) You need to dedicate some time for you regularly so that you aren’t constantly doing things for other people, remember you are important too so dedicate time to do something you enjoy. Oh and I find chocolate occasionally helps and when that fails throwing things.

    I hope things go ok for you.
    Lexie

  279. lexie says

    Caine, Scratches, belly rubs and tea for Chester (what type of tea does he like?). Also what is kleenex of doom, it sounds very cool?

  280. says

    Lexie:

    If he is quite stable then I would recommend starting to volunteer for a charity (a happy(ish) one not a refuge for battered women or an animal shelter which puts down dogs and cats).

    On this front, I can recommend fostering animals, for two very different purposes. One is fostering sick or abused animals, getting them to the point of being able to be adopted out. The other is volunteering to foster future guide / assistant dogs. On the last one, you basically raise the puppy – get it used to home life, see to socialization, basic obedience training and the fun part is that you take the puppy everywhere with you – work, out to eat, shopping, etc., getting them used to their future tasks and all the different environments they will have to handle. Most people have the puppies for a year.

    These programs are tremendously important and serve a great purpose.

  281. lexie says

    Jamie, I do agree with Caine that volunteer work with animals is very rewarding and great for depressed people as they don’t judge you and love you if your nice to them. I actually volunteer at a local shelter, which is not no kill but will only put down animals if they are unsuitable for re-homing for medical or behavioural reasons. But I think Caine’s idea is particularly good.

  282. says

    Lexie:

    Caine, Scratches, belly rubs and tea for Chester (what type of tea does he like?). Also what is kleenex of doom, it sounds very cool?

    Tea, either Tetley’s or PG Tips. I keep an extra tall and deep box of tissues on my desk. As can be seen in pics (the one of Vasco in it), it is a popular hideout. The Kleenex of Doom™ is when Chester runs up onto my desk to see me, and pops into the kleenex box. I take a single tissue and scrunch it around with my fingers, sneaking up on Chester until I can lightly grab his nose with the kleenex, then quickly scrunch off, with Chester chasing. This goes on for quite a while.

  283. lexie says

    Oh that’s sooooo cute :). He sounds like a lovely rat. I hope Zoe and Carrot are doing ok.

  284. says

    Lexie:

    Oh that’s sooooo cute :). He sounds like a lovely rat.

    He’s so special. Chester was the first one to recognize and react to his name, when he was not quite 3 weeks old. Most rats are very intelligent, but Chester is one of those with extra intellectual oomph. He is very playful and joyfully affectionate. He’s a superb shoulder rider and enjoys going anywhere with someone. He’s done well on hoodie training, too. (Hoodie training: if you’re going to take your rats outside here, they have to shoulder ride while you’re wearing a hoodie and stay under the hood because of aerial predators.)

    I hope Zoe and Carrot are doing ok.

    Zoe is doing quite well. It’s obvious now just how miserable she must have been feeling, impacted with all that shit, because she’s been very active and playful since having her enema at the clinic. Carrot isn’t doing so well today, he’s bloating up considerably, but he’s been fairly active and eating. He may end up going with us to the vet on Monday when we drop off the first 5 girls for spaying.

  285. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Gytha has the disconcerting habit of climbing up the inside of your pant leg.

    Well, if Nanny could fit up the leg of pants she would do it. As she is, she has other tricks to getting inside. XD

    Such a fitting name.

  286. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Also, thanks sgbm for that information. I haven’t decided on a plan of action for the review yet since the book took a turn where the main character figured out the tricks mr.douche hipster singer was using. I still going to link to something about Mr. Nice Guy(tm) crap I just have to decide on my approach to it depending on how it ends. I hope she kicks him in the crotch once. She should have done it when he didn’t take the hint and majorly invaded her space putting her between his legs and having to be shoved away.

    I’m trying to fend off the dread of knowing where this book is going and how it’s going to end. Nice Guys never win my big fat fucking ass.

  287. GirlNoir says

    Hey, all. Don’t know if anyone remembers me – it’s been quite a while since I popped by. But I just missed your lovely selves too much to stay away.

    Jamie, I’m emailing you. Lots of sympathy – it’s a tough situation.

  288. lexie says

    Ok. I change my initial point to be he sounds like a lovely and amazing rat. Very clever! Do the others all respond to their names yet? Re hoodie training – are they in the hood or hiding under it? Hearing about your rats makes me want to get rats. I’m glad Zoe is feeling better, hopefully since she responded well to the treatment you will be able to manage her condition well. I hope Carrot feels better soon, at least you’re going to the vet again soon so you can take him (?) in again if he (?) needs it.

  289. says

    Lexie, yes, they all know their names. Rats pick up on names very fast. It’s always fun to watch if one in particular is yelled at (as in ‘bad rat!’). The others will stop for a moment, after listening to the yelling, then run to whoever was yelled at and pile on top, to protect them from any more yelling or scolding. Other times, like smart-ass sprogs, they’ll rush to all do whatever it was that caused the scolding in the first place. “If you’re going to yell at x, we’re going to do it too! Nyah, nyah.”

    When hoodie training, you have to wear the hood and the rat needs to stay under it, on your shoulder. They can sniff all the wonderful of outside, but they have to stay under the hood. I had a Northern Harrier brush my head one time when I was out with Alfie. When we had Ash, our first rat, we used to take him out to get in a little tree climbing now and then. We have a very good tree for that, a difficult one for a hawk to get through when hunting, but it was always the two of us, with at least one of us constantly scanning for hawks, eagles and owls.

    Rats *love* having a digging box – any old box or a plastic container filled part way with sterile potting soil, with seeds, crunchies and various treats tossed in and mixed with the dirt. They like it if you grow grasses in it, too. Bringing bits of outside in is always a welcome treat. They like dandelion flowers and leaves, grasses, twigs, etc.

    Carrot is a male and yeah, I think we’ll be taking him in.

  290. says

    @broboxley OT
    From my conversations with my SO, he acknowledges that living is hard, so dying is easy. What I tell him is that we all die someday, so why not make the most of it. Sure there are sucky parts of life, but some great stuff too. I sometimes have to point out the good because he will just ignore them and focus on the bad.

    @Improbable Joe and Azkyroth
    Thanks for your concern. I think I am fine. It does get stressful sometimes, especially when he was first diagnosed and still figuring out what medications would work. I do have people to talk to when I feel like it. My friends shared this concern with me as well when I first told them. I know there are people that will be there for me in times of need. I do feel pretty whole and healthy, and for the most part I’m pretty content

    @Tony, King of the Hellmouth
    Thanks for your thoughts. Now that I think about it, I don’t think that my SO has ever had to deal with the death of someone close, so I doubt he has any first hand experience about it and the grieving process. He knows that his death would cause grief, but says that his family, etc. will get over it and move on.

    @strange gods before me
    Thanks for the wikia link. I never knew the Pharyngula wiki had info on suicide, I thought it was mostly a go-to for events, inside-jokes, terms used on Pharyngula. I do like the idea of acknowledging the suicidal thoughts and not making it into a big thing. I think he already tries to make use of distractions. He spends a lot of time gaming (some MMOs, visual novels, PS3), watching shows, and on the computer.

    @lexie
    *hugs* back
    My SO also doesn’t have a lot of friends. He’s mostly let them drift away. He can reconnect with them (and one childhood friend told his sister that he would love to, but when I suggested the idea, he was totally against it), but chooses not to. Part of the reason is that he feels he has nothing going on in his life and dreads the question, “so what do you do now?” His most recent friends are from our WoW guild. They’ve invited him to events, but he has said he felt he doesn’t know them well enough. I let them know his feelings, and though they are disappointed we can’t all hang out they understand and just let us know we’re always welcome.

    I do realize that he may never be “normal,” and I’ve told him so. I let him know that I’m here for him whether he will always be this way and ready to improve if he needs my help, though sometimes I wonder if I’m simply being supportive or enabling him as he is.

    We’ve actually never been religious. We’re both Chinese-Americans so our families are ancestral/Buddhist-leaning spiritualists. I don’t think either of us ever thought of life as containing any kind of supernatural meaning, but it seems to me a lot of the time that he doesn’t want/care to make any meaning. He has expressed an interest at volunteering at our local animal shelter, but he has just never got around to it. Maybe he can’t find the motivation to do things. We did get a dog about a year ago, and I think that she’s been good for him by giving him nonjudgmental affection as he can only accept from nonhumans.

    We actually have good times, but it’s so easy for him to ignore that nice things happen. I feel like he’s warping memories to focus solely on the bad, so I’m not quite sure how to get him to be aware of the way he’s thinking and hopefully change it. We try to go to the dog park a few times a month, but lately seldom get to do much together since his sleep schedule makes him nocturnal. If he can be awake during the day, I will encourage him to go hiking and pinicking. He has hung out with me and my friends a couple times in the past few months, which seems to be an improvement. Though I’m sure he feels exactly as you do, where he thinks everyone around him thinks he’s horrible. My friends are pretty accepting though and are fine when he hangs around doing and/or saying nothing.

    I will try to think of ways to give him the message that he’s loved in non-overbearing ways. I think it would be really helpful if he were to spend more time with people so that he can see that they really don’t think he’s a horrible person.

    I have friends who are there for me when I need them. Though I do also like online communities because I feel like people are reading and responding to what they like, and I know that online if people are busy, annoyed, or just don’t feel like listening, they can ignore it with no pressure.

    @Caine
    We have considered fostering, but that may be a future endeavor. We’re currently living with my mom and wouldn’t want to foist any critter or critter-responsibility on her. Working on finding a place of our own, though it’s proving difficult while doing online classes/seminars, working full time, and finding a place that will accept a medium dog. I do think that animals are definitely theraputic for him. Besides working with animals, he has also mentioned wanting to help other people he met in the psychiatric ward he feels have it worse than him.

    [btw, I checked out your cute ratlets, but I thought someone in the Introductions thread promised there would also cats and dogs on your blog.]

    Thanks again to those that responded. Know that I and my SO are doing okay. I’ll come around again as time permits. Goodnight.

  291. says

    Lexie, crunchies are what I call their dry mix – I use Reggie Rat.

    Jamie, the monster dogs can be seen on my zenfolio, which is currently down, so that’s not terribly helpful.

  292. strange gods before me ॐ says

    ImaginesABeach, thanks again. The Grandparents ad is up there too now.

    +++++
    JAL, basically I am very heavy handed with trolls at the wiki. I blocked an entire ISP (over 1000000 IP addresses) to keep one persistent troll out. I am willing to ban whole cities if necessary. Ain’t no thing.

    So don’t worry about linking to the wiki. If any troll tries to cause a scene, I will banhammer them unto the tenth generation.

    +++++
    Jamie,

    Thanks for the wikia link. I never knew the Pharyngula wiki had info on suicide,

    It didn’t! I put that up there just before I replied to you. I thought, wait, why not make this a wiki page instead of a blog comment?

    So, now it does.

  293. says

    Good morning

    Krasnaya Koshka

    Pussies can be straight or gay. I’m not quite sure I understand you. Unless I misunderstand you, which is likely.

    Misunderstanding, my fault.
    By “they” I meant the writers of the article who pulled the “the Penis is evil and all PIV violence against women” stick.
    How do you gay people live with such bullshit everyday?

    Alethea
    Yeas dough (for 9 apple pockets)
    250g flour
    120ml hand-warm milk
    20g yeast
    1 heaped tbsp sugar
    Put flour into a bowl and make a hole in the middle
    mix milk, sugar and yeast, pour into the hole, cover lightly with flour, cover bowl with a clean cloth, put somewhere warm for 15-20minutes.
    Add:
    75g butter
    generous pinch of salt
    Knead well (add more milk if necessary)
    Let rest in a warm place for 30-60 minutes

    Knead lightly again, roll out thinly. If you’re not familiar with yeast-dough: your surface should be warmish. If you roll it out on a cold surface it will instantly lose its elasticicity and sometimes even die.
    Cut into 9 squares
    put a bit of cinnamon-sugar mix and raisins *scary music* in the middle of each square. Use apple halves or quarters (depends on the size of your apples), but mabe sure you cut deep slashes into them so they’ll cook faster. Put on top of raisins. Sprinkle with cinnamon-sugar again.
    Fold corners of the dough over the apple, brush with egg. Let sit for 10 minutes.
    Bake for about 20 minutes at 180°C
    Enjoy.

    kristinc
    Have you thoroughly interrogated all family members?
    I only use cheap shears because sooner or later Mr. will cut something stupid with them.

    ++++

    Josh, people are whacked about home love. I saw a racist act in Ohio and posted about it elsewhere, and I was jumped by people insisting it must have been Kentucky immigrants.

    My aunt insists that all unfriendly people in Berlin are either the tourists or the people who moved there recently. And that’s a damn unfriendly city. Guess it must be David’s fault.

    Jamie
    What Joe said.
    It’s important to remember that you can’t save somebody else. You can support them, but nothing more. Take care.

    Caine

    Gytha has the disconcerting habit of climbing up the inside of your pant leg.

    She wants you to become as famous as the man who puts weasles down his trousers :)

  294. birgerjohansson says

    “A Turkish origin for Indo-European languages” http://www.nature.com/news/a-turkish-origin-for-indo-european-languages-1.11270

    This is something people have quarreled about for a century and a half. Maybe this will put an end to “Indo-European steppe invasion” theories.
    And it is ironic, considering the current Anatolian rulers suppressing non-Turkic languages.
    Hmm…would be interesting to know how much language change the “stationary” Indo-Europeans (Urartu kingdom?) evolved compared to “emigrants”.
    — — — —
    BTW the genetic heritage of the European hunter-gatherers seems to dominate the genetic heritage from the Indo-European immigrants, implying migration and transfer of language and agriculture skills was a complex affair.

  295. dianne says

    @A. R. 321: Were you feeling ill when your BP was taken? Headache, shortness of breath, chest pain? Is your work stressful? You could have anti-white coat hypertension: hypertension that doesn’t show up at the doctor’s office because it’s related to stress, i.e. at work.

  296. says

    Ahh, the joys of skeptial parenting.
    Today: science failure
    #1 got a little pendant recently: A star-sign mood pendant.
    Yeah, only a hologram could have made it more woo-ish, but it’s pretty. Actually, the friend who bought it mixed up Cancer and Skorpius anyway :)
    So, I didn’t even go into the mood-nonsense but tried to show her the “magick” of changing colours by holding it under running water.
    We started cold and I slowly turned up the warm water, letting her feel the temperature at each and every step so we could see that the colours changed when the water became warmer.
    So, this morning, when she asked to put it on again, I asked her
    “Do you remember why the colour changes?”
    “Yes, because you make it wet with water!”
    I think that happens when 5 yos break Occam’s Razor
    We then tried out what happens if you warm it in your hand, or breathe on it :)

  297. Louis says

    Caine,

    I am honoured to share ownership of Vasco with Hekuni Cat. I like to share!

    Louis

  298. Louis says

    Giliell,

    Sorry to read that. I hope you and yours are all as well as possible at this difficult time.

    Louis

  299. blf says

    Gytha has the disconcerting habit of climbing up the inside of your pant leg.

    A forty-foot high killer rat can climb anything it wants to, any time it wants to, whether you want it to or not.

  300. lexie says

    Giliellm I’m sorry to hear that, offers hugs, chocolate, tea, or whatever comfort foods/drinks you’d like.

  301. says

    Thanx for the hugs
    Well, she isn’t “officially dying” yet. But she caught an infection and is really sick and she’s 86 yo with severe heart-conditions. Hospital will mean death for her, we were lucky to get her home after the last time and we’d rather not make her live her last days in a strange place with no-one around.
    It just sucks.
    It’s also that her death will be the end of my family. My sister will leave ASAP (thankfully, I was much more worried about her the last weeks than anything else), my mum will decide that all reasons to get out of bed are gone and no idea what my dad will do. And I won’t play the glue that holds everything together. :(

  302. KG says

    Tony, not all conversation is meant to be meaningful. Some of it exists as a way to dispel tensions and put people at ease – Ms. Daisy Cutter

    Indeed. Yesterday, I was out for a walk with the dog. Well away from anyone else, our path led close to three skinheads standing together with a large dog (mastiff?) on a lead. As we approached (a little apprehensively on my part), the dog started barking and straining at the leash, but one of the skinheads called out in a friendly tone: “Alright? Fine Day!”.

    On Pussy Riot, one of the comments noted that their faction of Voina acrimoniously broke away from those responsible for the highly unpleasant performance described in 2009, before it happened. Of course that doesn’t tell us all is OK with their “Moscow faction”.

    My #291 was in regards to Pussy Riot. No one here believes it wasn’t a publicity stunt staged to gain sympathy for the church. – Krasnaya Kolska

    Staged by whom, and how? Is it suggested that those now imprisoned staged it for that reason? If not, who is supposed to have manipulated them?

  303. dianne says

    AR: I assume they checked for things like cardiac issues? What about a pulmonary embolus? Do you have any leg or thigh swelling? Trying to think of things taht could resonably be missed here…

  304. says

    Chinese aquaintance is giving me two options. Marry me, or I kill myself. This is not being beneficial to my mental health. Any advice appreciated.

  305. says

    Giliell:
    First off: *hugs* It’s hard losing a family member, no matter the circumstances.

    Second: The whole PIV thing: I seriously don’t get it. Maybe it’s because I have no interest in policing someone else’s sexual behavior, besides making “enthusiastic consent” the standard.

    Also, I don’t really like to be told that what I enjoy is wrong. But on the other hand, I think most people would be put off by that, no?

  306. birgerjohansson says

    “Experimental ‘stapled peptide’ drug blocks key cancer molecule”
    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-08-experimental-stapled-peptide-drug-blocks.html
    ‘stapled peptide’ shuts down Wnt.
    Interesting way to slam “undruggable” molecules.
    — — — — —
    One way to give life meaning is to adopt animals.
    For instance, I now have a cat who likes to eat until he pukes.

    (And the evil monkey from the Griffin family (Family Guy) has taken up residence in the closet, but the tomcat keeps him under control)

  307. Beatrice says

    rorschach,

    I’ll offer sympathy and *hugs* instead of advice. Well, except for saying that I obviously advise you not to marry her, but I doubt you were considering that anyway.

  308. says

    Oh no! Hugs to Giliell (and thanks for recipe) and to Rorschach.

    Seriously, Rorschach, “acquaintance”? What?? Really???!!? Sorry, I don’t mean to sound disbelieving, it’s just mind-boggling. Usually that kind of thing comes from closer relationships. It must be very weird. Is she in Australia or China? Is there more to the story? Obviously you shouldn’t marry someone who uses that kind of emotional blackmail, but is there something else you can do to help?

  309. broboxley OT says

    #420 Ouch! you didnt see this coming? Chinese aquaintance… any more details? Current immigrant from where or local of pure chinese extraction? Bad situation

  310. thunk, sour grape says

    G’morn all.

    :( Giliell. My sympathies.

    Rorschach. Oh my. I’ve no advice either.

  311. Beatrice says

    What kind of bullshit is this?

    Can nasal spray help prevent military suicides?

    I saw this in our papers, so I searched for some news in English.

    In the midst of a crisis that saw its highest rate of suicide in July, the Army has greenlighted a grant for Dr. Michael Kubek, an Indiana University of Medicine professor, to dig deeper into whether a nasal spray could be a safe and effective way to administer a specific antidepressive neurochemical to the brain and help calm suicidal thoughts.

    I can’t say if the science behind this is bullshit or not, but read the article and you’ll see why I started the comment with that question.
    It would be great if some new and more effective anti-depressive drugs were developed, but it sounds like they are looking for a quick fix because they can’t be fucked to provide any actual psychological help to soldiers.
    It doesn’t sound like this would actually keep the depression at bay with regular use, but just provide a temporary boost to get rid of suicidal thoughts. And, considering the track record, I assume no other treatment would be provided.

  312. says

    Jamie, I am sorry for what your significant other is going through. I have dealt with depression since early adulthood, and it sucks.

    However, I wanted to call this bit of your initial comment out, with bold as my emphasis:

    He has self-esteem issues which is most likely due to a somewhat disfiguring burn on his arm and possibly partially due to coming from a divorced family.

    The idea that divorce is inherently harmful in the long term to children is a right-wing meme and has been used as an excuse to keep people, especially women, in abusive relationships and children with their abusive parents. As this study says in its abstract,

    …the overall group differences between offspring from divorced and intact families are small, with considerable diversity existing in children’s reactions to divorce. Children’s adjustment to divorce depends on several factors, including the amount and quality of contact with noncustodial parents, the custodial parents’ psychological adjustment and parenting skills, the level of interparental conflict that precedes and follows divorce, the degree of economic hardship to which children are exposed, and the number of stressful life events that accompany and follow divorce.

    Also, I agree with others that you need to take care of and seek support for yourself. Our culture encourages women to spend all our energy on taking care of others, particularly (male) SOs and, if we have them, children, and neglect our own needs or feel “selfish” for meeting our own needs.

    Giliell, I’m very sorry about your gran.

    She wants you to become as famous as the man who puts weasles down his trousers :)

    Well, ferrets, specifically. And, heh, I was also thinking of Reg Mellor.

  313. carlie says

    Oh, rorshchach. You met her family, I think? Do you have any of their direct contact information to let them know she’s in a bad state? Even if they’re further geographically than you are, they might have more emotional pull to help her out in whatever’s going wrong.

    Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong, but I would think you could call a suicide prevention line for some help? Even though it’s not you directly? At the least they could point you to some options on who to talk to.

    Also, I realize you aren’t one of the touchy-feely-gooey types, but virtual hugs offered nevertheless.

  314. lexie says

    Audley, unfortunately I was truly puzzled by their bizarre beliefs, particularly the PIV thing so I looked further at their site. I went back when I saw your post and wrote the following summary the list is mostly just paraphrasing their stuff where possible I tried to use their own words but I admit that some of my bias has sneaked through. Also I couldn’t write it without putting snark in parentheses because my blood was boiling at the nonsense. THERE IS SOME SERIOUSLY STUPID STUFF HERE INCLUDING THINGS WHICH MAY OFFEND PEOPLE PARTICUARLY THOSE ABUSED AS CHILDREN. So if truly curious keep reading…

    1. Centuries have shown it is not women’s preferred sex act (I have no idea who they asked they didn’t say)
    2. You could get pregnant (gee really, blow me down with a feather) and if you get pregnant then you could die or develop serious consequences including obstetric fistula (I am not trying to get rid of the seriousness of these things but seriously the way this site talks you’d think that every pregnant women will die or have serious consequences and there is no mention that a lot of this could be prevented by good obstetric care and sanitation, they mention global figures with no thought that conditions could be a contributing factor)
    3. It normalises rape because it normalises the concept that penises belong in vaginas (Gobsmacked)
    4. You could still get pregnant even if you take precautions (yes apparently being pregnant is evil and wrong sorry Audley)
    5.It is a political act supportive of male power (no justification given) and institutionalises state control over women’s bodies (???)
    6. MEN ARE THE ENEMY (yep sorry awesome pharyngula men and all other feminist men apparently you are evil)
    7. Women are at more risk of contracting STDs through PIV than men (I have no idea if this is true, they had no citation in any case I would have thought a condom would have been a reasonable risk prevention strategy here)
    8. It makes you submissive to men (??? yes apparently all straight regular feminist women are submissive who knew)
    9. It makes women think that getting a man is the centre of their lives and you will spend your whole time grooming and being feminine to try this and will then end up with someone who you are too good for (gobsmacked again)
    10. Most women can’t orgasm through PIV and they don’t like it (I have heard the first half of that before but linking it to the second half seems bizarre and what about women who do like/can orgasm from it)
    11. Because women on TV fake orgasm therefore women feel bad if they can’t
    12. Trauma bonding from PIV (I have no idea what the hell this means they didn’t explain)
    13. Pain from birth control (I have no justification to talk about this but I seriously question this)
    14. PIV ISN’T NATURAL! (apparently they don’t understand even the basics of biology, who know maybe they didn’t go to school)
    15. You may get missed periods and pregnancy scares (remember Pregnancy is awful)
    16. If you get pregnant you may not know who the father is (I have no idea whether they’re slut shaming or just weird)
    17. You may feel compelled to keep the fact that you are worried you may be pregnant from you SO so as not to worry him (Remember men are evil and therefore it is categorically impossible that you have a nice loving trusting relationship)
    18. You may have to get tubal ligation to prevent pregnancy which is invasive and painful surgery
    19. Men are unsympathetic when they accidentally impregnate women or treat it as a positive event (remember men is evil)
    20. It makes menstruation seem a pathological condition and pregnancy as normal and it portrays pregnancy as the cure to menstruation (Gobsmacked – I don’t know if these women live in the same world as me because from people I’ve seen go through pregnancy they definitely don’t portray it as a walk in the park)
    21. Men control reproduction because they mandate PIV and rape women (I am really starting to get sick of the men are evil thing)
    22. Apparently telling women they look beautiful during pregnancy is wrong because it makes non-pregnant women feel ugly
    23. It fetishizes female youth because post-menopausal women can’t get pregnant
    24. Apparently if women post-menopause are to have PIV they need hormones etc because otherwise they can’t have PIV (not sure why) and this is totally ignored by the media a (yep apparently PIV doesn’t occur after menopause – I’m definitely convinced these people don’t live on earth)
    25. Rape and PIV are basically the same thing because women never want PIV (DO THESE PEOPLE ACTUALLY TALK TO PEOPLE OTHER THAN EACH OTHER)
    26. The media portrays no girl as too young to be penetrated (seriously, the media always depicts paedophilia as wrong)
    27. PIV makes all the men want to penetrate young girls and not mature women (MEN ARE NOT EVIL!)
    28. Men want to rape very young girls supports male power (GRRRRRR…I was sexually abused as a child and I now want to whack these people over the head with something)
    29. Raped girls grow up into promiscuous adults (again with the slut shaming)
    30. Raped girls end up working in porn or as prostitutes (obviously these things is EVIL!!!)
    31. Primacy of the nuclear family therefore all women will be breeding machines unless you avoid PIV (I want to send them a sexual health pack)
    32. PIV makes women housebound housewives
    33. PIV increases stress in women (citation needed but not there)
    34. PIV creates slut shaming (well you seem to be enjoying doing it)
    35. PIV makes women objects like toasters just good for making babies and serving men (seriously what is their address they need a sexual health pack)

  315. lexie says

    Audley sorry apparently I can’t punctuate or proof-read. I hope it didn’t bug you too much.

  316. Ogvorbis: faucibus desultor singulari says

    blf:

    Hi. Welcome back. How is the penguin? How are the trebuchets?

    lexie:

    Some around here think that peas are an abomination unto Nuggan and are unfit for human (or penguin, or rat) consumption (though are acceptable for horses). I eat peas and enjoy them.

  317. blf says

    Somebody with a peabullet-shooter has just run amok:

    A gunman opened fire in the street by the Empire State Building in New York City just after 9am. Police say at least eight people were shot. Officers also shot the gunman. A number of people are reported dead. …

    Remember, kiddies, shooting people makes you safer. Ask for a neato gattling gun this upcoming torturemas! You too can wipe out an entire movie theatre / city block / school / resort island!!

  318. lexie says

    Ogvorbis, thanks I had noticed the peas are evil thing on Pharyngula before but had never seen the explanation before and hadn’t felt game to ask. I also like peas.

  319. Ogvorbis: faucibus desultor singulari says

    lexie:

    Shh. If they find out there are more than just one of us we will be denounced as a menschevik splinter group!

  320. says

    Lexie:
    No, that was awesome! It was like you were eavesdropping on the conversation that I had with Mr Darkheart last night before bed. ;)

    I read through a chunk of the blog posts out of curiosity (I really don’t know all that much about radfems and figured that was a good place to start) and I really don’t understand any of their reasoning. The shit they said about pregnancy was bad enough (there was a post that mentioned that pregnancy has been taken over by the medical establishment. No fucking shit, when I had cramping and back pain I wanted someone to diagnose what was wrong and I would do the same thing for any other unexplained pain. Medicine = bad because men) and I just can’t take pregnancy advice seriously from someone who think PIV (or any man/woman penetrative sex act, really) is teh ebil.

    I’m very curious why they seem to think that language is “man made”. It came up in a post about pregnancy (women can’t accurately describe pregnancy because man made language doesn’t allow for the right descriptors) and I may not have any anthropology creds, but as far as I know, language began to evolve in small hunter/gatherer groups, which would imply that it wasn’t foisted unwillingly on to women. Unless the author was talking about English in particular, but then she was ignoring the fact that languages (especially medical terminology) change over time as necessary. (And this is ignoring the fact that I can describe my pregnancy quite accurately to a man, but this might be because I know what terminology to use.)

    And that’s not even getting into my criticisms of gender, sexuality, their views on “fun feminists”, etc.

  321. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Giliell, I’m so sorry to hear about your grandma. That’s a terrible situation and I can’t imagine what you’re going through. *hugs*
    ——————–

    Chinese aquaintance is giving me two options. Marry me, or I kill myself. This is not being beneficial to my mental health. Any advice appreciated.

    Well, advice depends on specifics.

    If you know her family or friends who know her family, or her support system, tell them. Does she have insurance to go see someone? Is there free services you could get her in touch with quickly? Could you or her support system get her that help? Maybe even just getting her on the phone with a suicide hotline.

    Since I don’t know her or how she would react I have no idea what you should say to her. I don’t know if it would be smart to get her in touch with people to help and then extract yourself from her.

    Do you have a mental health professional? If you tell them what’s going on, since you need support through this ordeal, maybe they could help with who to turn to for help.

    I’m sorry you’re going through this. One of the tactics my abusive ex used on me was the “if you leave, I will kill myself”. It’s…heart wrenching and terrible. It makes you feel responsible for keeping them alive. In reality, you can help her get help but that doesn’t mean you have to stick around and be responsible for her. It sucks that she’s…well I don’t know if she has a mental heath issue or is just a manipulative person or what, but whatever it is, you do not have an obligation to wreck yourself over this. You need to take care of yourself.

    I think it would be the right thing to do to help her (keep in mind I have my own issues with this subject like guilt), but that doesn’t mean she’ll get help or that it will work or that it would be okay for you to deal with this. Whatever you do, just remember that you matter, take care of yourself and that it’s not your fault.

    *hugs if you want them*

  322. blf says

    Well, after the recent adventures with the beans and duck-proof suit, the mildy deranged penguin has been kindof quiet (only a handful of tanker trucks full of Margaritas and Martinis and beers and vins a day). The feather is still stuck in the lair’s wall, but she did, eventually, manage to subdue the pasta.

    The trebuchets are working just fine — one of her current projects is a self-reloading turntable of trebuchets to obtain a steady stream of flying kitties (it’s not working quite yet, perhaps more news later…) — and there are new kittens around to introduce to the Art and Joys of Being Trebuchet Ammo.

  323. says

    Also, about the whole “pregnant glow” absurdity: 1) I’m pissed that pregnancy is automatically bad, whether or not I wanted it (hint: I did. Very badly) and 2) fuck you Fadfem Hub, I do look better than I have in years and it’s largely because I am healthier now than I have been since high school. If my friends and family want to say something about my appearance they’re being kind to me.

  324. says

    Tampa’s only gay-owned bathhouse is offering free admission to RNC attendees.

    Does anyone else remember the gems on Craigslist M4M in the Twin Cities four years ago?

    Lexie:

    Women are at more risk of contracting STDs through PIV than men

    I’ve heard this from more-reliable sources as well. It can be explained by semen being left in the vagina and by any tears in the vaginal membranes (which may not necessarily be due to sexual violence).

    The rest of it… yeah. You are not imagining the slut-shaming. It is always present in this sort of nonsense. Just like fundies who claim to want to “protect” women from abortion, RH and their ilk alternately fake concern and spit venom for women who don’t think like they do. (“Trauma bonding from PIV” would be their way of saying that heterosexual women who form romantic attachments to men have Stockholm syndrome.)

    (seriously, the media always depicts paedophilia as wrong)

    I disagree strongly. They may always treat it as wrong in the case of boys or of girls under the age of ~5 or so, but they do victim-blame prepubescent female rape victims, as in the Texas case of the 11-year-old who was gang-raped in the last year or so. The media is, at the very least, complicit in running ads for clothing manufacturers whose products inappropriately sexualize young girls.

    Audley, I hate to say it because the same assertion is used against feminists of all kinds, but the sort of rhetoric you see on RH almost always comes from women who have suffered extreme abuse at the hands of men. This doesn’t justify the rhetoric at all, of course. (It’s no more correct than misogynist rhetoric, but it does not carry anywhere near the same real-world consequences.)

    The idea that language is “man-made” is not unique to them. I have not read Shlain’s book but his thesis pings my bullshit meter for the reasons you list.

  325. opposablethumbs says

    Giliell, I’m so sorry. I hope your grandmother does pull through after all.
    sending you hugs and hope.
    .
    Rorschach, bloody hell. Seconding what some have said above – hope it’s possible to alert her family or any support structure that might be available, and I hope you’re able to help without getting chewed up yourself in the process.

  326. lexie says

    Audley

    I also read it because I don’t really know much about radfems, I’m the only self described feminist I know in my small town and I’m also the only one lots of my friends know. I have occasionally been called radical (yep because I think women should have equal promotion opportunities in the work place and should be paid equally) but I’d never thought of myself as such just a rational one. Also I’d thought that the feminist movement was largely rational as it is rational to treat women as equal humans. So going onto a site which called it’s radical was initially interesting then I just kind of when into a weird zone where I kept reading the stuff even after it was obviously bigoted, irrational, and bizarre.
    I started with the hideous transphobic stuff then I moved on to the PIV stuff because I simply didn’t get it what on earth is wrong with consenting adults doing something. I get that it’s not something that everyone would want to do but it seemed more like a homophobic site spouting nonsense about anal sex than a feminist site. Particularly with the unnatural claim, I mean seriously…PIV is unnatural??? Did these people go to school? How the hell do they think species perpetuate themselves? ALSO PREGNANCY IS NATURAL AND NOT EVIL!!!! (sorry I am not yelling at you just mad at them). Feminism should absolutely promote the ability for women to control their reproduction but it shouldn’t ban it we can choose to have kids it’s not just men forcing us. And being nice to pregnant women definitely isn’t wrong, what kind of sick world do these people come from?

    The language thing doesn’t even make sense, even supposing that it was totally invented by men (which I don’t believe as women can speak and simply by communicating you contribute to the evolution of language) but lets pretend. Men definitely invented large chunks of maths and science as women were denied decent education and were not able to persue these as careers largely. That doesn’t mean that women can learn it now. Children at school are learning it for the first time and providing they get decent education I can see no reason why a girl couldn’t excel in maths or science. So even if this were true women now could still use language and due to language evolution if words hadn’t been invented by men which we needed they would be invented it’s not like we’re still talking in old English. Not to mention isn’t the normal stereotype that women are good at language and expressing themselves.

    What seriously pissed me off is that it wasn’t even vaguely liberating or in my mind feminist, I mean it just seemed to me like a different set of laws for women to live by. Yes of course women should be able to have careers, choose not to have kids and have same sex relationships but that doesn’t mean we have to. All people should be free to choose what they want and this includes wanting to have kids, wanting to be a stay at home mum (or dad for that matter) these things are something some people want and others don’t for fucks sake (sorry again just mad from going back there).

    Also what is a ‘fun feminist’ because I think that’s supposed to be an insult but it actually sounds quite cool, I mean who doesn’t want to be fun at least some of the time?

  327. says

    Daisy:
    No, RH’s rhetoric doesn’t have the same impact as misogynist rhetoric (although it’s surprisingly similar) and I never said that it did. I’m just pointing out the OMGWTFBBQ moments that I had while browsing the site.

    I understand where they are coming from in some cases, but I’m uncomfortable with the extremes* they take their arguments to. For instance, I agree that we shouldn’t define sex as only being PIV** (or, more generally, penetrative sex), but I don’t think that PIV is somehow morally wrong.

    On the other hand, they shit the spewed about trans*women (don’t know how they feel about trans*men), their views on pregnancy, the slut shaming, etc, were awful enough to burn up any goodwill I may have had for the contributors to that blog.

    *Radicals being extreme? Say it ain’t so!
    **If you get off sucking on someone’s elbow while the pet turtle watches, rock on with your bad self. I’m comfortable labelling that as “sex”.

    It just occurred to me that this has implications in the “purity” movement– namely “technical virgins” who are spreading STIs because they haven’t had PIV sex and are wholly unprepared to protect themselves during other sex acts. But teaching kids to be safe kind of defeats the purpose of abstinence-only, doesn’t it?

  328. lexie says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter,

    Thanks, the more prone to STDs sounded like it could be true but I wasn’t sure. The other one that didn’t sound like total nonsense was that many women can’t orgasm through PIV alone (I have heard this from more reliable sources but haven’t done any literature research myself) and the media does often depict orgasm through PIV alone and I could imagine that this could lead some women to worry. (I’m not sure if it is valid or not but it did at least sound vaguely plausible.

    Re: paedophila, I am not aware of the case you talk about because I’m an Aussie and thus am not fully aware of American News, but on reflection I agree with you that I was wrong and I’m really sorry as it was a stupid thing to say (though that case sounds even worse than what I’ve seen the Aussie Press do). I was more thinking about young kids and my personal revulsion definitely affected that statement so sorry, I still sort of don’t believe how people could possibly victim blame.

    From my readings the situation of sexualisation of young children is worse in America than here (I am not saying America is bad there are many things which are far better there than here only that this is what I have read but I have not done extensive study on the subject and could quite possibly be wrong so please correct me if I am)

    What are the laws protecting victims of child sexual abuse in America that they would be allowed to do that? I hope at least she wasn’t named?

    Very sorry, Lexie

  329. lexie says

    Audley, they seemed a little more tolerant of trans men (they still seemed to hate them just a little less than transwomen) because as far as I remember transmen are just women who aren’t particularly feminine trying to fit into the patriarchy? I may be remembering incorrectly but I do not want to go back over to their site.

  330. says

    Lexie:
    I think you nailed my general objection exactly. It’s still about allowing men to control women: men like PIV sex, therefore women shouldn’t have penetrative sex. Men view pregnancy as the ideal for femininity, therefore pregnancy is bad. Etc etc.

    Like I said, I don’t know that much about radical feminism. Can someone tell me if RH is fairly representative of the radfem viewpoint? (I know that there’s going to be a lot of variation among viewpoints, and I’m not looking to get into a no true Scotsman argument, just wondering if this is common stuff for radfems or if RH is doing their own thing.)

  331. lexie says

    Oh shit, I screwed up my apology. I did not mean to make it sound like I have magic intentions I don’t (obviously) I said something wrong and silly and am sincerely sorry. So sorry again.

  332. says

    The closer we look at Paul Ryan, the more the shine diminishes. He’s not shiny and new and smart.

    The guy is filled to the brim with bad ideas, and one of those is climate denial.

    Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), Mitt Romney’s vice-presidential pick, is a virulent denier of climate science, with a voting record to match.

    A favorite of the Koch brothers, Ryan has accused scientists of engaging in conspiracy to “intentionally mislead the public on the issue of climate change.” He has implied that snow invalidates global warming….

    In a December 2009 op-ed during international climate talks, Ryan made reference to the hacked University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit emails. He accused climatologists of a “perversion of the scientific method, where data were manipulated to support a predetermined conclusion,”…. [Paul Ryan, 12/11/09]…

    In short, Paul Ryan stands with Big Oil against scientific fact and the future of human civilization.

    Nine instances of Paul Ryan’s denial of climate change are listed in the Think Progress article.

    Paul Ryan And His Family To Benefit From The $45 Billion In Subsidies For Big Oil In His Budget

    … he and his wife, Janna, own stakes in four family companies that lease land in Texas and Oklahoma to the very energy companies that benefit from the tax subsidies in Ryan’s budget plan,” as The Daily Beast reported today.
    Ryan’s father-in-law, Daniel Little, who runs the companies, told Newsweek and The Daily Beast that the family companies are currently leasing the land for mining and drilling to energy giants such as Chesapeake Energy, Devon, and XTO Energy, a recently acquired subsidiary of ExxonMobil….

  333. says

    Daisy:
    From the Amazon review of The Alphabet vs the Goddess

    Shlain’s thesis takes readers from the evolutionary steps that distinguish the human brain from that of the primates to the development of the Internet. The very act of learning written language, he argues, exercises the human brain’s left hemisphere–the half that handles linear, abstract thought–and enforces its dominance over the right hemisphere, which thinks holistically and visually. If you accept the idea that linear abstraction is a masculine trait, and that holistic visualization is feminine, the rest of the theory falls into place.

    That a hell of a big “if” there, buddy.

    I thought we were past the whole “men think this way, that’s why they’re engineers” and “women think this this way, that’s why they’re caregivers” bullshit. You know, men have logic, women have intuition crapola.
    Ugh. Vomit.

    (Also, hello? What about pictographic languages?)

  334. Rey Fox says

    Funny. I looked at all that radfem stuff quoted, and I didn’t see a single “Guys, don’t do that”.

    I thought we were past the whole “men think this way, that’s why they’re engineers” and “women think this this way, that’s why they’re caregivers” bullshit.

    I thought we were past the whole left brain/right brain thing.

  335. lexie says

    Nope definitely not passed it unfortunately, all the time people seem to produce some new crap, which apparently justifies inequity. However, it seems interesting to me that apparently the crap on this doesn’t seem to all be one way (as it is with trying to explain why women are bad at maths yes that seems to be the way these studies work find stereotype/something I want to be true and go about proving it, ok I am overly skeptical and there are some good studies into gender difference but I see so many crap ones I just get mad). Apparently some people think women are inherently good with language and some think that women are inherently bad. Why the hell can’t they just actually look at people’s individual characteristics rather than trying to make broad generalizations, i.e. She is a good mathematician or he is a great nurse etc.

  336. cicely says

    if you were a pair of expensive sewing shears with no backup pair, where would you be right now?

    In the freezer. Based on past experience.

    Okay, Krasnaya; I’ll play:

    1. You are walking in the woods. What do the woods look like?

    Mostly evergreens. The ground is covered with fallen needles and bits of bark. Small wildflowers and miscellaneous greenery grow in small patches.

    2. You find a path what does the path look like?

    Dirt animal track.

    3. Are there animals in the woods? What do they look like?

    I can ‘see’ squirrels (at least they aren’t eating my house!) in the trees, the occasional bunny (not in the trees), birds either singly or in small flurries. The trail suggests the presence of deer or something of similar size.

    4. Are the animal friendly or not friendly?

    They are neutral. If I don’t mess with them, they won’t mess with me. Cautious, but not alarmed by my presence.

    5. What kind of animals are they?

    Redundant to #3.

    6. You find some sort of container in the woods. It could be a tiny cup, it could be a humongous cauldron. What is it?

    An empty pop can. Some idiot has been littering.

    7. You find a fork in the woods. Forward, Right or Left. Which way do you go? (And what is you primary hand, left or right?)

    And it appears that xe dropped xis plastic fork, as well. Seriously, some people!
    Forward!

    8. Further along the road you find a body of water. It could be a puddle, it could be an ocean, What is it?

    It’s a creek.

    9. When you find the body of water do you get in it? Or not?

    I jump across it.

    10. You find a key. Is it a tiny door key or is it a key in your mind? Or a key you don’t recognize or a skeleton key?

    It’s a somewhat rusty house or car key (I can’t tell the difference, though I know that to those In The Know, it’s obvious at a glance), rather dirty (’cause that’s what happens when you leave a key in the woods for any length of time).

    11. You run into a farm. There’s a “home” building there. You can see it. What does it look like? Are there lights inside or is it dark? Are there people waiting for you inside? Do you go in?

    It’s obviously a long-abandoned farm, since the house is down to bare wood, and listing hard to port. The windows are long gone. Part of the roof is missing. There are saplings (and a couple of decent-sized trees) growing inside it. It’s empty, and hell no I’m not going in! Do the words “structural integrity” mean nothing to you?!? And there are probably snakes laired in among the mess inside.

    Of course they’re poisonous! Why need you even ask?

    12. There’s a fence all around the farm, but it seems familiar. Can you jump over it? Or will you stay inside? Outside the fence there is nothing you can see but nothing terrible either.

    It’s part field stone, part wood. The wood portions collapsed long ago; the stones in the supports (stiles???) are starting to erode out of the mortar. Why jump it; I could just walk right through!
    There’s no reason to linger here; I walk on.

  337. says

    We’ve seen a lot of news about Google mining our data, but did you know that Mitt Romney is mining your data?

    AP article.

    Mitt Romney’s success in raising hundreds of millions of dollars in the costliest presidential race ever can be traced in part to a secretive data-mining project that sifts through Americans’ personal information – including their purchasing history and church attendance – to identify new and likely, wealthy donors, The Associated Press has learned.

    For the data-mining project, the Republican candidate has quietly employed since at least June a[n] … analytics firm that previously performed marketing work for a colleague tied to Bain & Co…..

    The head of Buxton Co. of Fort Worth, Texas, chief executive Tom Buxton, confirmed to the AP his company’s efforts to help Romney identify rich and previously untapped Republican donors across the country. …

    There are no records of payments to Buxton from Romney’s campaign, the Republican National Committee or a joint fundraising committee. Under federal law, companies cannot use corporate money or resources, such as proprietary data analysis, for in-kind contributions to campaigns.

    The effort by Romney appears to be the first example of a political campaign using such extensive data analysis. President Barack Obama’s re-election campaign has long been known as data-savvy, but Romney’s project appears to take a page from the Fortune 500 business world and dig deeper into available consumer data.

    Buxton said he’s working for the Romney campaign because he wants “to be on the winning team.”

    … the data-mining project was described to the AP by a Romney fundraiser who spoke on condition of anonymity because the fundraiser did not want to face repercussions for describing internal campaign processes….The analysis doesn’t directly bring in campaign contributions, but it generates the equivalent of sales leads for Romney’s campaign.

    …analysis… of thousands of commercially available, expensive databases that are lawfully bought and sold behind the scenes by corporations, including details about credit accounts, families and children, voter registrations, charitable contributions, property tax records and survey responses. …

    An AP analysis this week determined that Romney’s campaign has made impressive inroads into even traditionally Democratic neighborhoods, collecting more than $350,000 this summer around San Francisco in contributions that averaged $400 each. …

    Buxton confirmed that the data-mining project began with the help of Dick Boyce, Romney’s former Bain & Co. colleague, after Romney joined fundraising forces with the Republican National Committee….

    A lot more detail is available at the link.

  338. says

    Audley, I’m no defender or admirer of that website or its views. I wasn’t accusing you of saying that its rhetoric is just as bad in real-life terms as misogynist rhetoric; I made the observation because I didn’t want someone else to go there. (Remember that we’ve had trolls in the Lounge before.)

    There are radical feminists, and then there are radical feminists. Not all radfems are transphobes or misandrists.

    Count me in as yet another person who thought the “left-brain/right-brain” thing was obsolete and the two hemispheres much more connected than originally believed. Sounds like Shlain is stuck in the ’70s.

    Lexie, no worries, my reply was a bit America-centric. The rape case in question was reported in the New York Times, which did not name her but which indulged in every bit of rape apology you can think of. The outcry was pretty harsh, but the reporter and his editor defended the piece rather than apologizing for it.

  339. broboxley OT says

    #461 Lynna Social Media Data Mining as well
    http://cherokeetribune.com/view/full_story/19799743/article-Social-Organizing?instance=blog_main

    Using Social Organizing, supporters can log into your website, match their Facebook and other friends to the VAN voter file, and then make the right contacts with the right friends, like calling persuadable friends and targeted voters, or emailing friends fitting the profile of a donor as part of a grassroots fundraising effort. Social Organizing then encourages supporters on to greater activity through game dynamics like points, achievement badges, and supporter leaderboards

    And don’t we all desperately want more achievement badges? This technology gave a big boost to Obama during the 2008 elections and can be expected to do the same in 2012. Will your friends sell you out?

    Obama Campaign Intends To Win The Election With ….CELLPHONES.

    Actually, they don’t need to, because the Obama for America phone app has an even more convenient way of invading your privacy. Campaign workers using this app can see the names, addresses, age, and gender of anyone and everyone in a neighborhood. This is public information, which campaigns have long accessed so volunteers could walk door to door. But now workers don’t need to hassle with getting the list from the county clerk — they can just download the app and in seconds see a Google map that marks household voter affiliation with little flags.

    The New York Times called the Obama App “the science-fiction dream of political operatives,” but many may find a large creep factor in a perfect stranger being able to discover in seconds if you’re a woman living alone. To counter the Facebook invasion, you may want to check your privacy settings — and choose your friends very wisely if you don’t want them targeting you for political gain. But there’s nothing you can do about that Democrat on the corner aiming his Obama App at you.

  340. broboxley OT says

    more details on the NYC shooting
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EMPIRE_STATE_BUILDING_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-24-11-49-15

    Jeffrey Johnson, 58, who was laid off about a year ago at Hazan Imports, fired three times at the company’s 41-year-old office manager, shooting the man in the head, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said. The two had traded accusations of harassment when Johnson worked there, he said.

    Johnson walked away, and a construction worker who saw the shooting followed Johnson and alerted two police officers, a detail regularly assigned to patrol the 1,454-foot skyscraper since the 9/11 terror attacks, officials said.

    Surveillance video footage shows Johnson reaching into a bag, pulling out a .45-caliber pistol and pointing it at officers, Kelly said. The officers drew their weapons and started firing, killing Johnson, Kelly said.

    Kelly initially said that Johnson fired on officers, but police said later they were trying to determine whether Johnson actually fired shots.

  341. says

    People are REALLY angry about this whole atheism+ business, aren’t they? How dare people form a group that they don’t want to be a part of, and then say that the people who don’t want to join aren’t welcome?!?!

  342. says

    Reality just keeps on biting Romney in the ass.

    [Excerpted from The Maddow Blog …Romney was desperate to prove that American free enterprise thrives without the support of government, but when he pointed to examples, they all thrived thanks to the support of public institutions and tax dollars. This happened over and over and over and over again, ultimately proving that the entire line of attack is self-defeating.

    And the problem will apparently continue, as if self-awareness no longer matters at all.

    Links to back up the “over and over and over and over” portion of the quote above:
    Think Progress on July 25
    Huffington Post on July 30
    Washington Post on July 26
    Daily Kos on July 25

    The Maddow Blog article provides evidence that the “We Built This” speakers selected for the Republican convention follow the pattern of Romney-touted business persons whose success depends, in large part, on government grants and government contracts.

    …small business owner Sher Valenzuela is slated to deliver a speech about small business issues. But contrary to the evening’s theme, Valenzuela’s company, First State Manufacturing, has received millions of dollars in federal loans and contracts. Valenzuela has not only attributed her success in part to this outside assistance, but urged other small business owners to follow the same strategy of seeking government funds.

  343. says

    Mitt Romney pandered to birthers today.

    “Now I love being home in this place where Ann and I were raised, where both of us were born,” the GOP hopeful told the crowd. “Ann was born in Henry Ford Hospital, I was born at Harper Hospital. No one’s ever asked to see my birth certificate, they know that this is the place that we were born and raised.”

    Robot humor. Needs to be reprogrammed.

    Romney has a passport, so someone must have asked to see his birth certificate.

    Just dumb (in trying to type “dumb” I first typed “dung” — that works).

  344. says

    Heh, I just made the boys their first wading pool (shallow dish, smooth glass stones, cold water, a fair helping of frozen veg in the water.) They are having fun and making a mess – Vasco has figured out if he pulls all the stones out, it makes it easier to get to the delicious veg, oh yeah.

  345. says

    Pteryxx, apparently some folks have decided that Richard Carrier is the overlord of Atheism+, and have renamed him “Richard Koresh” after the Waco, TX cult leader … perfectly reasonable, not at all hyperbolic, completely aware of what Atheism+ is all about.

  346. Pteryxx says

    …yet somehow, *we’re* the ones getting begged to be more tolerant and reasonable. argh…

  347. cicely says

    Hi, Jamie; welcome in!

    Just had a bowl of vanilla ice cream with leftover peach-honey-lavender tart filling on top. I am a genius.

    Sounds like.
    :)

    Hi, GirlNoir! I remember you.
    :)

    *hugs* for Giliell. Sorry about your gran.

    Sorry; I meant “Gilllielllllllll”. Of course.
    :P

    *hugs* for rorschach. Emotional blackmail. How sweet! Yeeeeeah; that’s the healthiest start to a potential relationship!

    MENand HorsesPEAS ARE THE ENEMY

    Fixed, nutcases.

    Fixed the fix, respected (but too narrowly focused) ally.

    What’s wrong with peas?

    They are toxic little pellets of Evil.

    I also like peas.

    Heretic!

    I’ll bet you also like Horses.

  348. says

    The most stupid thing I’ve seen is this sort of comment: “I agree with everything involved with A+, but I hate A+ because the people involved are too…” whatever, fill in the blank with whatever stupid nonsense you can think of. Or “I agree, but I feel insulted that someone would spell it out, or insist on rules”

  349. says

    Nutmeg

    Or, does anyone have any podcast suggestions right now?

    If you have a smartphone, I really enjoy the stitcher app, which has a function where it selects podcasts based on what you like. That’s how I found radiolab, incidentally. I would recommend The Moth podcast, very good. As well as Rachel Maddow, obviously : )

    Warning: discussion of homophobia and general rage-inducing attitudes

    Lexie

    I had the intensely unpleasant experience of realizing that two of my closest friends were homophobic godbots a few months ago. The wife compared homosexuality to alcoholism, and I asked for examples of how being gay is harmful to self or others. Her husband chimed in with “Well married men who have gay affairs are definitely hurting their wife.” I almost lost it on them. Asked if they really thought the gayness, not the infidelity/breaking of promises was the problem in that scenario. Also pointed out how perhaps it was homophobia/social pressure that led a gay man into a straight marriage to begin with. Siiiigh. In sum, I can feel your pain/rage/frustration.

    The media portrays no girl as too young to be penetrated (seriously, the media always depicts paedophilia as wrong)

    I would disagree, as mentioned above. See: “Barely Legal” pornos. And “Girls Gone Wild.”

    Tony

    In law school, we would exchange those meaningless pleasantries. No one really expected anyone else to actually be “fine/good/great” though. We were frequently honest with one another. My catch-all response was “Keeping my head above water, you know how it is. You?” It doesn’t say anything awkward or depressing, but it’s true in the sense that it implies everything is not roses and sunshine, but you will survive. I found it to be a nice middle ground.

    Giliell

    So sorry you’re having to go through this. I can so relate to the rest of the family making it more difficult, not less. : ( Take all the virtual hugs and chocolate that you need.

    Beatrice

    they can’t be fucked to provide any actual psychological help to soldiers.

    Nor can they be fucked to stop fucking up their [servicemembers] minds in the first place. Grumble

    Ms. Daisy Cutter

    Aw, shucks.

    Agreed, in the most casual, loungey way that is possible for this forum.

    Caine:

    Thank you for the Rattie Reports™. They are very amusing and sweet.

    ~~
    Is there a Pea Resistance? I like them too…

  350. says

    Portia, “Girls Gone Wild” is awful, but it’s not pedophilia. It’s just another example of diminishing women by calling them “girls.”

    I wouldn’t even call it “pedophilia” in the cases of 16- or 17-year-olds participating. Same with “barely legal.” While I look very much askance on men in their mid-20s and onward who like to hold forth on how “natural” it is for them to be attracted to 15-year-olds, I am not entirely on board with equating attraction to mature-looking teenagers as “pedophilia.” Acting on that attraction is legally and morally wrong, given the imbalance of power, but I balk at calling it identical to the rape of, say, a kindergartner. Especially as ages of consent vary widely over time and place.

  351. says

    Hi folks
    Thank you for all the good wishes and hugs
    So, either gran just pulled herself up one last time or it looks like she could pull through. At least she was more or less awake, recognized us, ate and drank a little.
    And the kids were so gorgeous. They imagined a million little things that might help her and I guess they did just because they did them for her.

    roschach
    That sucks in squares. Suicide threats are the worst kind of emotional blackmailing there is. I’m sorry you’re in this.

  352. cicely says

    I like peas and horses*. I am teh evil.
    *I even used to own them.

    Well, yes.

    But you are a necessary evil.
    And anyway, pea ownership is quite acceptable, given that they are being given to the ratties for conversion to Cute.

    :)

  353. Patricia, OM says

    Improbable Joe – A cheap can of beans (sans can) thrown into that soup would help. And just to spite blf, a hand full of dried split peas.

    Geliell – HUGS!

    Rorschach – Please don’t marry that person.

    Louis – Most people would be impressed with your never having been convicted of sow humping. I however know it simply means that you haven’t yet gotten around to Blandings sty. *smirk*

  354. Ogvorbis: faucibus desultor singulari says

    I’ll bet you also like Horses.

    Nope. Hate those damn things. They are evil. I once had a Morgan stallion stand on my foot and lean against me until I was pushed up against an electric fence. And leaned against me for about 5 minutes. They are evil.

    I do like peas, though. Split pea soup with ham. Steamed fresh peas. Fresh peas sauted in olive oil with onion, tomato and crunchy bacon. Steamed and dried peas. Steamed and dries wasabi peas. Frozen peas in creme sauce with bacon and prosciutto over fettucine. All good. Canned peas are sheer, unadulterated Romney.

  355. says

    Ms.Daisy Cutter

    Portia, “Girls Gone Wild” is awful, but it’s not pedophilia. It’s just another example of diminishing women by calling them “girls.”

    I’ve snapped back at strangers in bars who greeted me as a “girl,” much to my girlfriend’s chagrin. I agree with you on the point of using “girls” to put women in their place. I don’t know that that’s all it is though. GGW advertises that it uses people who are just over 18.

    I agree that a grown person having sex with an older teenage is far different than the same with a younger child. But I think that the “barely legal” stuff reeks of fetishization and sexualization of children. Maybe it just skeeves me out though. I haven’t read much on it. You may be right about the difference; and I just can’t see past the skeeeeeve. *shudder*

  356. says

    Split pea soup with ham.

    you just made my mouth water.

    I also used to have horses… I await the day when I have the means to rescue one from the “horse shelter” in my area.

  357. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Pteryxx, apparently some folks have decided that Richard Carrier is the overlord of Atheism+

    Wow, it’s like they literally can’t process the idea of a woman taking the lead on something.

  358. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    I agree that a grown person having sex with an older teenage is far different than the same with a younger child. But I think that the “barely legal” stuff reeks of fetishization and sexualization of children.

    It’s certainly a fetishization of youth which is problematic in its own way.

  359. says

    To me, polyamory is the rational outcome of skepticism applied to love, sex, and relationships just like feminism is the rational outcome when skepticism is applied to questions of gender, culture, and power structured in society. Am I wrong or have people not comprehended this yet?

    Right, people who are monogamous are just unevolved, and probably uptight and full of irrational emotions like jealousy. You and yours are the only people on earth with enlightened sex lives.

  360. KG says

    If you get off sucking on someone’s elbow while the pet turtle watches, rock on with your bad self. I’m comfortable labelling that as “sex”. – Audlley Z. Darkheart

    Which reminds me (and this being the Lounge, it can’t be a derail) of a lovely mondegreen I came across recently: “Lead on, O king eternal”, heard as “Lead on, O kinky turtle”.

  361. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    lexie:

    What’s wrong with peas?

    ::please read the following in an uppity hoity toity voice::
    They are not fit for human consumption.
    /end hoity toity voice

    Rats love them, so I’m going to twitch my nose, bob my head (like Genie, not some strange gay sechs act) and magically ‘port all the peas in the world to Caine’s backyard :)
    ****
    Oggie:

    Canned peas are sheer, unadulterated Romney.

    Surely someone has come up with something better than that. I mean look at Santorum. He has a unique place in the Urban Dictionary. Romney has to have something unique to his royal highness.

    Shh. If they find out there are more than just one of us we will be denounced as a menschevik splinter group!

    Too late.
    Henceforth, you and lexie shall be relegated to A- .
    ****
    Krasnaya:

    1. You are walking in the woods. What do the woods look like?

    There are trees as far as the eye can see. Some are shorter than others. Many of them are tall enough to offer shade from the sun.

    2. You find a path what does the path look like?

    It appears man made and composed of dirt and rocks. There is no grass and it appears wide enough to allow for 3 or 4 people to stand side by side. There are tracks that indicate something has driven through the area.

    3. Are there animals in the woods? What do they look like?

    Yes there are. Some look furry.

    4. Are the animal friendly or not friendly?

    I can’t tell. I don’t try to approach wild animals as I don’t *know* how friendly they might be. However, as I’m walking, they don’t scatter to the four winds.

    5. What kind of animals are they?

    I see black squirrels, deer, and a skunk or two.

    6. You find some sort of container in the woods. It could be a tiny cup, it could be a humongous cauldron. What is it?

    A spit cup for someone’s nasty dip. Darn litter bugs.

    7. You find a fork in the woods. Forward, Right or Left. Which way do you go? (And what is you primary hand, left or right?)

    I play eeny meenie miny moe. Then go left. I’m right handed.

    8. Further along the road you find a body of water. It could be a puddle, it could be an ocean, What is it?

    A swimming pool.

    9. When you find the body of water do you get in it? Or not?

    I’m not dressed for it, so no.

    10. You find a key. Is it a tiny door key or is it a key in your mind? Or a key you don’t recognize or a skeleton key?

    It’s a shiny silver key. Too small to be a car key. It looks like a key to a lock or some sort.

    11. You run into a farm. There’s a “home” building there. You can see it. What does it look like? Are there lights inside or is it dark? Are there people waiting for you inside? Do you go in?

    A small ranch type farm with no lights on (it’s daylight out). I can’t see any people there, but I think it’s someone’s home. I don’t go inside.

    12. There’s a fence all around the farm, but it seems familiar. Can you jump over it? Or will you stay inside? Outside the fence there is nothing you can see but nothing terrible either.

    I could *climb* over the fence. I didn’t realize I was inside the property of the homeowner, so I do climb the fence to get off their property.

    Ummm, how did I do teacher?

  362. Paul says

    So, people are doing that 12 questions on visualization. I sat around a bit on my lunch break trying to do it, but unless I simply impose a familiar image (say, memories of a camping trip in the forest) or sit there and manually sort of “draw” things into a mental image 1 by 1, I don’t see anything. Is that abnormal? Am I missing something?

  363. A. R says

    dianne: Thee EKG was normal (NSR, vent. rate 91), but I do have an elongated diacrotic notch on my pleth. No PE (BP and O2 Sat would likely be low anyway). I’m following up with my GP next week.

  364. says

    Paul:

    Am I missing something?

    No. Some people don’t visualize at all and others don’t do it easily.

    As for the ‘test’ (which Kristinc noted was a form of folk fortune telling), I don’t do that sort of thing, I think it’s silly.

  365. Ogvorbis: faucibus desultor singulari says

    1. You are walking in the woods. What do the woods look like?

    Sad. The pine trees are brown with damage from the Pine Borer and the winters are too warm to kill the beetles off. Under the trees are exotic weeds imported from Asia and Europe.

    2. You find a path what does the path look like?

    The path is washed out in places, bare rock in others. Little trail maintenance has been done here for twenty years despite the heavy foot traffic.

    3. Are there animals in the woods? What do they look like?

    There are large game animals — White Tail Deer, Mule Deer and Elk. The large predators which kept the herds in check are missing so the elk, especially, look small and undernourished.

    4. Are the animal friendly or not friendly?

    The deer and elk, as well as the rodents, keep approaching as if they expect a handout. Some of the hikers and hunters have been feeding the game animals sugar in an effort to fatten them up for the hunt.

    5. What kind of animals are they?

    A shadow of the ecosystem — large herbivores, rodents, and some small and medium predators.

    6. You find some sort of container in the woods. It could be a tiny cup, it could be a humongous cauldron. What is it?

    The container is an empty ammo box. Looks like someone thinks that a .223 assault rifle is appropriate for hunting deer.

    7. You find a fork in the woods. Forward, Right or Left. Which way do you go? (And what is you primary hand, left or right?)

    I consult my USFS map and discover that, on the map, there is not supposed to be a fork here. The two diverging trails are ones created by people taking short cuts in the wilderness area. Trail maintenance is so bad that I have no idea which trail is the actual one I am following, so I go left. (I am right handed, but I always try to go to the left. Seems more honest.)

    8. Further along the road you find a body of water. It could be a puddle, it could be an ocean, What is it?

    It is a small stream. The banks are broken down. The creekbed is mud, and the riparian flora has been trampled and destroyed. The banks of the creek are dried and cracked mud in the bright sunlight.

    9. When you find the body of water do you get in it? Or not?

    I dip my hand in the water to check the temperature. It is warm. Too warm to support trout or even the arthropods which should abound.

    10. You find a key. Is it a tiny door key or is it a key in your mind? Or a key you don’t recognize or a skeleton key?

    I recognize the key. It is a Best Lock Company key, though without the coding number or the ‘do not duplicate’ stamp. Looks like someone had their own key to get past the gate further down the mountain. It means they are probably bringing their ATVs up into the restricted areas. Could explain the damaged riparian habitat. Then again, lack of predators could also explain it.

    11. You run into a farm. There’s a “home” building there. You can see it. What does it look like? Are there lights inside or is it dark? Are there people waiting for you inside? Do you go in?

    The farm is abandoned. No lights, no sign of people. It is one of the myriad of failed homesteads within the wilderness area. Someone, at some point, decided that this pleasant glacial valley was a good place to farm or raise cattle. The winters were probably too cold for the cattle.

    12. There’s a fence all around the farm, but it seems familiar. Can you jump over it? Or will you stay inside? Outside the fence there is nothing you can see but nothing terrible either.

    The fence, like the farmhouse and the outbuildings, are protected by ARPA, so I do not jump the fence. I walk to the gate (or, rather, where the gate was) and step inside. I can see where people have been digging for artifacts, using boards for campfires, and carving their initials in the weathered boards. It does look familiar. It all looks too familiar. Everywhere I look, I see a wilderness being destroyed by those who would enjoy it.

    Yeah, I am kinda depressed right now.

  366. Ogvorbis: faucibus desultor singulari says

    Not only am I depressed, but my borkquoting skills are on display for all to see and mock!

  367. Ogvorbis: faucibus desultor singulari says

    And yes, my visualizing leaves much to be desired. Even my visualizations lead to editorializing.

  368. ImaginesABeach says

    I liked your visualization, Ogvorbis. It screamed “park ranger” from the very beginning.

    Paul – I can’t visualize anything either.

  369. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    I’ll bet you also like Horses.

    Nope. Hate those damn things. They are evil.

    You might re-evaluate this. Try for example some horse sirloin with some roasted potatoes, roasted chillies, puy lentils and a roquefort/butter combo. mmmmm!

    In other news (or rather, in all the news in my neck of the woods). Anders Bering Breivik got his judgement today. He was judged competent to stand trial (and of course got the maximum penalty), and most importantly: Both he and the prosecution declined their right to appeal. I’m so relieved right now. The forces that wanted to write him in the “lone insane person”-script seem to have lost thoroughly.

  370. Paul says

    And yes, my visualizing leaves much to be desired. Even my visualizations lead to editorializing.

    I have the opposite problem. Somehow people never believe me when I say nothing’s on my mind. I suppose I look really introspective, or something. But unless I’m holding a conversation or have a specific issue/problem under consideration, there’s nothing really going on up there to talk about.