Comments

  4. spondee says

    Who, what in the name of sweet jumped up Jesus does “neodarwinism” mean? Seriously. What are you talking about? Why are you here?

  5. clinteas says

    spondee,

    Why are you here?

    its a long story….of stormfronts,stupidity,and serious cognitive dissonance.

  6. notherfella says

    Even as a full-blooded evolutionist and atheist I would question the need for ‘Atheist radio’. I don’t think the absence of a belief is a terribly good ground on which to base a radio station or any form of community.

    I worry that atheism has become in some circles essentially antagonistic. Given that we don’t believe in an afterlife and this is the only stop our tourbus is making, life seems too short for that.

    Better instead to focus on things that bind us together surely. Is the scientific community not enough? Or maybe shared loves in the arts? Multiculturalism is hardly enticing if it mainly involves us all hunkering down in our foxholes and taking pot-shots.

    ‘They started it’ will never be a reasonable argument.

  7. clinteas says

    notherfella @7,

    I don’t think the absence of a belief is a terribly good ground on which to base a radio station or any form of community.

    Well now,why exactly not?
    There is a gazillion christian radio stations out there pestering people with judeo-christian garbage,why not an atheist radio station?Same rights for everyone,right?

    Multiculturalism is hardly enticing if it mainly involves us all hunkering down in our foxholes and taking pot-shots.

    WTF does that even mean?What does multiculturalism have to do with religionists wanting to shove their dogma down our throats left,right and centre?

  9. Carlie says

    I don’t think the absence of a belief is a terribly good ground on which to base a radio station or any form of community.

    I vehemently disagree. There are many places where atheists feel like complete outcasts, and have no one around who shares their beliefs (at least, that they know of, since no one will risk the stigma of coming out). There are many people who would like to leave their churches, but aren’t sure how or have any idea what kind of philosophies might replace their religion and all they know about atheists is what their pastor has told them.

    It’s quite informative to hear people give reasoned arguments against religion that others can then think about and use. It’s very useful to see possible role models of how to be a decent person without a god. It’s helpful to have other people to turn to. Just because you don’t see the need for it doesn’t mean that there isn’t one.

  10. notherfella says

    I have taken pause to consider that coming from the wonderful UK my issues may be subtly different to those experienced by atheists elsewhere in the world. I think our society here is possibly more accepting of atheism.

    clinteas: My comment about multiculturalism assumes this is the end point you desire – you want ‘same rights for everyone,’ is this not your hope? Of course, the alternative is the removal of alternative beliefs, or the placement of yours above them, but I’m sure we would all take great exception to that. It would be fairly illiberal.

    Hence multiculturalism, which this has everything to do with. And I hate the idea of a secular multiculturalism that consists of discrete groups having a go at one another in their own individual spheres.

    Carlie: there may be an angle to this discussion I had not considered. I will think about this. Thankyou.

    My main reason for posting is that I worry about the antagonism I perceive in a lot of atheism, and I don’t like the idea of belief turning into a conflict (on both sides at least). Thankyou for your replies, I think this discussion is valuable.

  11. clinteas says

    My main reason for posting is that I worry about the antagonism I perceive in a lot of atheism, and I don’t like the idea of belief turning into a conflict

    I have once held a similar position,from the comfy armchair of the relaxed secular society in Australia,but had to adjust my position seeing what is actually going on in the US,where most of the commenters here would be based.

    We have to turn it into a conflict,we have to confront and ridicule,because the other side will,supported by conservative money and influence,keep trying to push the creationist agenda into our living rooms and schools.
    Its not about being nice and tolerant anymore,the creozombies sure arent….

  12. spondee says

    Ahh, Stormfront. Say no more. And on a personal note, I always enjoy your comments clinteas, Cheers.

    Right you are about the need to confront and ridicule. I am tired of hiding.

  13. SC, OM says

    Even as a full-blooded evolutionist and atheist

    Right.

    Have you listened to the Atheist Talk Radio broadcasts? I suspect not. If you had, you’d know that recent shows have been about science in 2008, initiatives at the UN, inerrantist interpretations of the Bible (an interview with a Biblical scholar who is not the least hostile to religion), the activities of the Secular Coalition of America (which includes some religious groups),… You’re simply extrapolating wildly from the name because you want to express your faux concern.

    There would be nothing problematic about it even if it were all about atheism (do you see a situation in which people of different religions coexist with equal rights as a problem? Or do you only have a problem when atheists have equal rights? why do you see atheism as somehow inherently hostile? “I hate the idea of a secular multiculturalism that consists of discrete groups having a go at one another in their own individual spheres”? I’m not sure what you mean by “having a go at one another,” but what alternative are you proposing?). But the fact is that it is about a number of issues.

    My main reason for posting is that I worry about the antagonism I perceive in a lot of atheism,

    The existence of a radio show for atheists is antagonistic? The existence of atheists?

    and I don’t like the idea of belief turning into a conflict (on both sides at least).

    Right, if atheists just let ourselves be rolled over, there would be no conflict.

    I think this discussion is valuable.

    For you, perhaps. I’ve gained nothing from reading your comments so far.

  16. clinteas says

    SC,

    relax ….Could have been me making a similar statement couple years ago….Its really drastically different if youre not exposed to this shit in real life all the time !

  17. clinteas says

    Oh,and SC,hey,

    this typekey thingy is not all bad,I put a pic up lol….
    And ty for the radio reminder honors,I was going to growl at PZ for posting it at 2am,when youre not around to do your thing…:-)

  18. SC, OM says

    relax ….Could have been me making a similar statement couple years ago

    Then I would have responded to you in the same way. :)

    Gotta go listen – be back in an hour!

  19. Steve says

    I usually just listen to the Podcast afterwards and this is the first time I’m listening “live”… Is the show always preempted by 8 minutes of commercials? And what was that on before Atheists Talk – sounded like a friggin Infomercial for some crackpot’s COQ10 supplements…

  20. notherfella says

    @ #14 – I somewhat resent your calling my concern false. In fact I often worry about the issue of how we can form inclusive communities. I am listening to Atheist Talk Radio as I type, out of fairness. I will admit my reaction to the title was something of a knee-jerk, but my honest response to an emerging trend. Of course, if you can gain nothing from my opinion, so be it.

    The notion that I think atheists should roll-over is nonsensical. I am very proud to state things I believe in, and a large facet of that is the equal rights we should all enjoy. I don’t see atheism as hostile.

    But I think we must acknowledge that the population we are trying to convince does. And I worry that by drawing battle lines we alienate very the people we want on-side. People do not always understand the difference between opposition to fundamentalism and opposition to fundamentalists.

  21. Valis says

    Is the show always preempted by 8 minutes of commercials?

    LOL! I was thinking the same thing. This is also the first time I’ve listened live. Guess we’re not used to such commercialism in South Africa

  22. says

    Motherfella, I am glad you are listening. We have a grand variety of topics on the show; including science and other topics. You will find that this in no case a “religious bashing show.”

    Live from the studio.

  24. clinteas says

    Mike,

    whoever does that website,can I suggest you put a big fat “listen live” button there or something,it took me ages to get to the live link….

  25. Carlie says

    But I think we must acknowledge that the population we are trying to convince does. And I worry that by drawing battle lines we alienate very the people we want on-side.

    That’s something that people go around and around about. The thing to remember, though, is that the very existence of atheists is that battle line for very religious people. It doesn’t matter how nice you are, it doesn’t matter how much you capitulate, your very existence itself is an affront. With that point of view, it doesn’t do a single bit more damage to be out and confrontative. (was that a word?) There is no way to appease them other than to not exist.

  26. clinteas says

    Carlie,

    There is no way to appease them other than to not exist.

    Youre absolutely right ! And I certainly learned that lesson over the years.But to be fair to the international audience here,its so hard to actually believe what is going on in the US,that this shit we chat about here jovially is actually influencing your guys lifes so much,and all the time…We watch Ideocracy and have a giggle,but for you guys thats a reality every day….

  28. says

    Notherfella: There IS a need for an atheist radio show, just as much as there is a need for atheists.

    I am looking forward to the day when I can ‘just’ be a humanist or existentialist, but that day is not here yet. I doubt I will see it in my lifetime, but hopefully generations down the road will benefit from us being out and proud.

    Not only that, but we have built a strong Minnesota community and the radio and TV shows are just one way we keep it strong. I am happy for Minnesota Atheists and am going to promote it wherever/whenever I can. That does not make me antagonistic.

  29. SC, OM says

    @ #14 – I somewhat resent your calling my concern false.

    It was #13, and I don’t care. You characterized this radio show in a certain way that suited your purposes without having listened to it, apparently, even once. How can your concern about something be real and honest when you know nothing about it? It was false in that sense.

    I am listening to Atheist Talk Radio as I type, out of fairness.

    Maybe out of fairness you should’ve listened to a few episodes before spouting off. That would have been fair.

    I will admit my reaction to the title was something of a knee-jerk, but my honest response to an emerging trend.

    It was a complete knee-jerk, and if you know nothing about it you can hardly use it as an example of any trend.

    The notion that I think atheists should roll-over is nonsensical. I am very proud to state things I believe in, and a large facet of that is the equal rights we should all enjoy. I don’t see atheism as hostile.

    Then you are a very bad communicator indeed, because I pointed to the specific sentences in your earlier posts in which you expressed those sentiments.

    And, what Carlie said.

    You’ve simply used this broadcast as an excuse to throw out a bunch of concern-troll catchphrases with no empirical referents and no context offered. I hope you continue to listen to the broadcasts, and post something more substantive (positive or negative) in the future.

  30. notherfella says

    Thanks all for your comments. I’ve certainly taken something onboard.

    Esp. thanks clinteas: I do lack some context! You’re right – the situation in the US appears unbelievable to me half the time.

  31. Eric says

    THOR DAMMIT!!!!

    Why did I think this was at 10 AM and not 9 AM?!?

    I tune in at 10 AM and I get some guy peddling his magical fish oil.

    Did they at least say anything about the date/time of Dan Barker’s upcoming debate with Dinesh D’Souza at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities? I think it’s January 29th, but I have no idea what time or which auditorium.

    CASH is one of the sponsors but no one has update their events section of their website. It’s on Dinesh’s website, so I’m pretty sure it’s going down?!

  32. says

    Steve @ #19,
    The radio station that we use is a local independently owned small power station. They are also the local affiliate for Air America and other progressive/liberal radio, i.e. Ed Schultz, Thom Hartmann. The 8 minutes after comes from Air America’s style, so the weekend shows use the same format.

    The “informercial” before is one way for them to pay the bills. The station hasn’t quite broke even yet, although they were thinking 2009 will do it.

    Scott
    -Sometime interviewer and member of a sponsor of “Atheists Talk”

  33. SC, OM says

    that this shit we chat about here jovially is actually influencing your guys lifes so much,and all the time

    Not mine here in Boston as much as those of millions of others in the US and billions of others (much more horribly) around the world.

    Eric,

    They’ll probably put up the podcast soon so you can listen to the whole thing, but they did mention it during the broadcast. There may be a link from the MN Atheists page with more info. (Don’t know why I’m responding – I’m sure Mike Haubrich will answer your question any minute now. :))

  34. Eric says

    This is what information I have been able to scour from the interwebs:

    WHO:

    Dan Barker and Dinesh D’Souza will debate “Can We Be Good Without God?”

    WHEN

    Jan 29th – TIME?!?

    WHERE:

    Willey Hall rooms 175 & 125 (1,100 seats)
    225 19th Avenue S
    Minneapolis, MN 55455

    map: http://www1.umn.edu/twincities/maps/WilleyH/index.html

    WHY:

    Because Dinesh is a slippery little weasel and I’m sick of hearing him say “…well that is why they don’t let biologists out of the lab…”.

    I’m bringing whip cream pies to throw at him. (I kid!)

    sources:
    http://sites.google.com/a/umncru.com/umn-cru/Events/debate
    http://www.ffrf.org/events/

  37. John Phillips, FCD says

    notherfella, and no, it is not just the US. We in the UK have had to fight our corner quite recently to combat the UK equivalent of the Dishonesty Institute insinuating ID into the science curriculum via the ‘resource’ DVD pack it sent to English and Welsh secondary schools. Fortunately, enough of us got in touch with our MPs and the appropriate Ministers and it actually ended up with the science curriculum being strengthened against such future attempts.

    However, even then, we have the private Vardey fundie schools in the UK teaching creationism/IDiocy as science. So no, it is not just the US that needs worry about such things. Though admittedly, the situation is not quite so dire in the UK, except perhaps for NI where a creationist is, IIRC, either education minister or sits on the education committee.