This morning at 9am (in about an hour!), Atheist Talk radio will have an interview with Todd Allen Gates, to talk about this subject:
What if the Christian god really existed? That’s the premise that author Todd Allen Gates takes in his book “Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer.” What conclusions can we reach about this Christian god? One of the book’s main themes is: “If you understand why you reject all the other religions, you’ll understand why I reject yours.”
Could be interesting. One of the infuriating things about arguing with believers is that they refuse to extend their ideas to their logical conclusions…which are usually absurd.
Well, unless the answer is: “I reject all the other religions because God tells me so.”
He really, really doesn’t like amputees?
Slightly off topic here but connected with atheism. Seeing as he refuses to allow comments I thought I might link it here. Our local Framer has done another name-calling attack on atheists but forgot to check the details first. His target, Sasha Baron Cohen, isn’t actually an atheist but religious! Matt obviously forgot to check before using disapproval of his new movie as an excuse to fling poo at atheists.
http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/2009/01/get_ready_for_more_borat_athei.php
Radio Reminder without SC giving the world times is like sex without Viagra and inflatable toys and ….never mind….
Yeah, the grandson of a Holocaust survivor poking fun at the Jesus myth. It’s a bad day for…atheists?
Hey, clinteas!
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html
Morris, MN, zip code: 56267
About ten minutes to go!
Ahhh,
Im complete…..
Off to bed..:-)
Aaaaargh, I tuned in early — I despise these awful programs that surround Atheist Talk. These goddamned morons are babbling on and on about an additive to your food that will have all these magic effects on your health. It’s Cofactor Q10! It’s ubiquinone! It’s an electron carrier in oxidative phosphorylation! I really, really doubt that anyone has a serious deficiency in ubiquinone, unless they’ve got a serious mitochondrial disease.
These guys are raping science to peddle their quack nostrums.
You guys are missing another part of that Nisbet article. He violated our ground rules by posting it in the Life Sciences channel. Do you see any Life Science in that?
I’ll have 2 quack nostrums,one for SC one for me,shaken,not stirred,thanks……
this is off topic and all, but i’m from a different time zone, and i don’t quite understand how it is that the talk show is at 9 am and PZ says there’s an hour to go at 8:48 am…
So Nisbet finally admits that he’s ashamed to be an atheist. I figured that out a long time ago. Poor guy should just go back into the closet if he thinks being an atheist in America *now* is embarrassing.
It just keeps buffering….won’t start. Any help?
I guess I am being stupid, but why would a film made by a British Jew that portrays Jesus as a black man be a problem for American atheists ?
Nisbet seems to be the Bill Donohue of atheists. Full of crap and bluster with a mega persecution complex and an ego the size of Texas.
Sounds like they’re re-airing episode 52 from last week.
Weird. They’re replaying last week’s program — their guest must not have shown up.
To confuse the time zone issue further, all science blog posts are listed under New York time; I’m in Central time. I posted this at 7:48 Central, it is displayed as 8:48 Eastern.
Well crap, I really was looking forward to this topic. Maybe they’ll do it next week then?
That’s fine with me. I missed last week’s program. It seems that half the time, Atheist Talk Radio turns into Science Talk Radio. Actually, those are the weeks when the show is the most interesting. I don’t know how it could be done, but I think Lynn Fellman should have her own show, a full-time science talk radio program. I would listen faithfully.
Ok, something’s up.
The same two commercials (AHA-Q.Cumbers) just aired over again.
Why would a black Jesus be any more “shocking” than a blue-eyed, blond Jesus?
Don’t ducks have these on top of their bills, filled with duck snot?
I guess it would be shocking to that constituency that thinks if English was good enough for the Bible to be written in, then it is good enough to be official language of the US.
Maybe there is actually a technical issue and we can look forward to being able to download the new episode later on today.
While I am not suggesting that the google is the final word of authority, a quick search is not showing any indication that Sasha Baron Cohen is an atheist. In fact, it seems to be supporting SC’s account.
Oh, a black Jesus? I am shocked, shocked at the idea. Why, I never heard that one of that one before. I am also denying all knowledge of The Boondocks.
Well just cuz God says so doesn’t mean you’re bound to listen…There’s a Jewish story I like from the Talmudic era (so we’re going back about 1600 years or so). Two rabbis are arguing about a point of religious law. One of them says, if I’m right then let water flow uphill. Water flows uphill. They argue some more. The same guy says if I’m right, let trees walk. Trees walk. Then he says if I’m right let it snow even though it’s July. It snows. That sort of thing. Then the other guy says, tough shit. That miracle stuff doesn’t count. God gave us the books (ok he meant Torah) and the brains to interpret it & figure things out. But the point is that he said miracles are irrelevant to the argument. Then God’s voice boomed from heaven, at last my children have surpassed me.
Oh my FSM! I just snorted coffee out of my nostrums…
Well we do know Sasha Baron Cohen is British, and the evidence suggests he is a practising Jew who whilst not totally Orthodox does embrace some Orthodox traditions such as only eating Kosher food.
What still confuses me is why how such a person portrays Jesus should make Nisbet feel embarrassed to be an American atheist. I suppose it is possible something really broke in Nisbet’s brain over Christmas.
Good point about logical conclusions. Almost any assertion is subject to outside evidence. Occasionally there are those where there is no or very little outside evidence(parallel worlds) or on which one side will not accept evidence (God just planted all those pre-4004BC fossils to fool smart folks but they don’t fool me). In which case the only argument left is the internal contradictions of the theory – cologuially taking it to its logical conclusions.
Beyond that the other side has proven itself impregnable to any of the ravages of intelligence & one is entitled to assert that anybody honest can see they have shown the intellectual capacity of a house brick & leave.
I did that as well, but with tea. As I am suffering from man flu at the moment it really really hurt my sinuses. I think I might sue Emmet for making me laugh.
Somehow, I doubt that “causing retrograde nasal irrigation by hot beverage” is a civil tort.
I imagine someone, somewhere (probably the US) has given it a try though.
On the upside, it DID clear my sinuses.
Matt,
If Wikipedia is to be believed, nasal irrigation can be beneficial, although lukewarm saline is recommended rather than hot tea.
I sometimes point out that it’s clear from the fossil record that the “intelligent designer” uses trial-and-error to design its creatures. From there, it’s a small leap to remove the intelligence from the theory.
It didn’t take me long to learn not to read new comments while drinking and eating. Emmet, you are in fine form today.
Nostrums on their rostrums?
No, just sneezers on their beezers.
(Oops, posted early)
Speaking of nostrums, the show (very interesting science show featuring PZ) was then followed by some fruit juice being sold as a miracle cure.
There’s a big problem with the argument: “If you understand why you reject all the other religions, you’ll understand why I reject yours.”
The problem is that they think their god told them not to believe in other gods.
Oops.
A black Jeebus? So c1998!
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Illustrated-Especially-International/dp/0529109654
The link is to ‘Holy Bible: Illustrated Especially for Children of Color, New International Version c1998’
The book cover shows a picture of a beautiful black Jeebus with beautiful children of color.
It’s not a new idea. Get over it Nesbitt!
Weblog Awards!
In case anybody is interested (hello!) – PZ is currently in second place by some 3000 votes (a mere pittance) to something called “Watt’s…”-whatever, I keep forgetting. Surely we can give PZ some support?
The show didn’t go on as scheduled today because the axle on my car got broked on the way to the studio. It was a bit too late to call in reinforcemets, so I asked the engineer to replay a prior show.
Todd Allen Gates has agreed to try again on 01/25/2009.
Dust – the “Black Jesus” imagery goes back further than that. I remember hearing about things like this 30 years ago. It can be taken two ways – the first is that Jesus iconography reflect the worshippers views of Jesus as one of them (thus the Aryan Jesus also). The other is the pseudohistorical idea that Jesus really was Black, as opposed to Semitic (this is the African-Centric idea that proposed an African origin for just about everything in the Western world. A load of hogwash, of course. Giving credit where it is due is one thing, making shit up is another.
Speaking of feces, I saw the “Borat” post which said we should hang our heads in shame or something like it, and while I haven’t been entranced by Cohen (never thought him as being particularly funny), I couldn’t see where the author was coming from. Then I saw who wrote it and it made sense. Remember, Kids, anything that could be taken as an insult, especially to the most extreme, such as the racists who would be offended by a black Jesus but not an Aryan one, is to be avoided at all costs. Pathetic, but what we’ve come to expect from the Scienceblogs Apologist.
What – no one remembers the Good Times episode when JJ (jimmy “Dynomite!” Walker” painted Jeebus as a black man?
Has anyone officially designated “Uncle Tom syndrome” as a psychological disorder? If not, some pioneering PhD. should study Nisbet.
Not withstanding all the other quack nostrum jokes/puns that followed, I plan to take this as a challenge to come up with a cocktail recipe that fits the name. Watch this space.
Emmet! Ewwww.
Badger3k @42 remarked “Dust – the “Black Jesus” imagery goes back further than that. I remember hearing about things like this 30 years ago…”
Yes, I know the imagery is older. I’ve seen copies of the bible mentioned and remembered it as being, in my view, specious. That is because it is just one of many “themed” bibles out there; such as for drug addicts, newly weds, teenagers, ect.,
It’s specious to me ’cause the inerrent word (and imagery) of god can be whatever some editor/publisher/writer/preacher ect., wants it to be.
Happy Monkey!
One of the most amazing things I ever saw was in a cultural museum in Austria. There was a collection of Nativity scenes, hundreds of years old, not even pretending to look Jewish. For example, the men were in lederhosen, and the houses were typically Austrian.
A dark-skinned Jesus is nothing compared to a blue-eyed Jesus in Lederhosen.
Thus spake Patricia, OM:
What gets the “ewwww”: duck snot or nasal irrigation?
Emmm-et!
Eww, eww, now both.
That put me right off my bacon sandwich.
The quack nostrum surely must be related to the fluffy duck, which is based on advocaat and lemonade. (s/lemonade/7-up/ if you are American). I suggest advocaat and rum. That’ll cure what ails you!
The line about atheists rejecting all gods for the same reason believers reject all but one god can be dangerously counterproductive. Read Milton’s “Paradise Lost”; when he’s describing and naming the fallen angels, most of them are Canaanite deities, i.e. the idea is that the “false gods” of non-Yahweh religion genuinely exist and are supernatural beings who are lying to mislead their worshippers.
Thus an argument which you are deploying to mean “Your god doesn’t exist, just like all those other non-existent gods” may come over as “Your god is a lying demon, and my god told me so. Hail Satanodarwin!”