Last spring, I mentioned that Americans United was suing to block South Carolina from promoting religion via an “I Believe” license plate. Good news today: a judge has issued a preliminary injunction against the state. Christmas is doomed!
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Does this mean I have to give back the DVDs I already opened? Nuts.
Yay! Ba humbug – nothing makes me happier than ruining Christmas.
Yay for my state!
I’ll try and find a link, but there was a public meeting a few weeks ago on this and, as expected, the arguments from the lawyers for the plates were both scary and incredibly stupid.
DNY3D
Good. That saves me the trouble of moving there just so I could sue the state when they refused to give me a “There is no God” license plate.
The plate doesn’t entangle church and state. If you believe that, I have a bridge over the east river to sell……
I guess this action gives them little reason to “believe.”
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Just makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.
South Carolina, I BELIEVE your representatives are bigots.
Anyone surprised?
Cue whining about ‘activist judges’ in 3… 2… 1…
Just more evidence that the poor christian majority is being persecuted again. Churches across the country will use this as an excuse to pass the plate to hire more lawyers from Liberty University and get out to vote for the next know-nothing Palin clone to come along.
Tune in to Bill O’s show tonight to watch his head explode.
I guess this means my proposal is screwed:
http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=829
dw
I’m not convinced either way on this issue.
On the one hand, I can understand that some people might view this as the state favoring one particular religion.
On the other hand, since they are chosen by individuals, it could just be viewed as free expression by those drivers who want such plates, and in that case the state collects extra revenue from them…
I really have a hard time thinking that this is that big of a deal.
This sounds like the opening scene of that beloved Xmas classic program, “How the Eeeevil Atheists Doomed Christmas”.
I guess that a select group of Christian buddies will now have to undergo a perilous journey to South Carolina to wrest the holiday back from clutches of the baby-eating heretics, thereby ensuring that Santa can bring baby Jebus back from the dead and fixing little Tiny Tim’s leg. Amen!
Actually we do have secular humanist license plates. The problem here is that while there are a large number of specialty plates issued for groups in SC, they all have to go through and approval process that includes pre-orders and some other things for the plates to be made.
The “I Believe” plates were shoved through the SC State legislature without having to follow the rules.
That is the core of the issue. With the legislature making a special exemption for the Christian License Plates, they are effectively endorsing them and there’s your first amendment no-no.
Yes! I rule!
Now, let us crush that vile abomination that is Easter.
The hitch in the whole story – if I remember correctly – was that unlike many other types of vanity license this would have been subsidized by the state.
Ultimately, I don’t give a crap what you put on your car so long as it doesn’t result in you careening into me while I pass you on the freeway. But this whole, “You should cough up tax dollars so I can tell you I’m religious” bullshit is nothing more than church-sponsored embezzlement and I’m really not interested in paying for stupid.
@6 and @12 –
What? This is not just a matter of personal choice. A license plate is an official government document, issued by and wholly owned by the government. It can be revoked at any time by said government. This is therefore promotion of a religious nature by a government – which is explicitly a no-no.
Now, if the state let you select any image and logo you wanted for your plates, that might be another story – but it doesn’t. It has a limited selection that is put into place by the legislature! This is absolutely an establishment clause issue.
Brain Hertz:
I think the issue isn’t so much the “I Believe” message that the state allowed as the fact it won’t offer an alternative like, “I Don’t Believe – Get Over It.” By not offering an alternative, the state is surreptitiously advocating religion over reason.
This would seem like more of a victory if your currency didn’t ostentatiously endorse a specific deity.
Well I believe – I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows. I believe that somewhere in the darkest night, a candle glows.
I don’t know why you’re so cynical.
Wow…it’s about time. I’ve been waiting for that to happen. I live in South Carolina, and it’s nice to see there’s one less religious artifact for me to have to stare at now.
Also, there’s already the “In God We Trust” plate here in SC. I never understood why the godbots here wanted the “I Believe” plates as there’s no substantive difference. But hey, nothing like logic has ever stopped a godbot from getting what h/she wants, has it? I fully expect this to be on the news as though the sky was falling.
Well, you’d have a point if they offered Jewish, Muslim, etc. plates. As it stands, I believe they only have the Christian plates.
finally, a small win for my state.
Secularism: 1
Southern Baptism: 1 googol
we’re catching up!
And exempted them from the already in place process for getting a specialty plate approved.
Brain Hertz @ 12:
I agree that this isn’t a huge deal: there are far larger problems out there than license plates. However, the problem is that even though the Christian license plates are optional, there is no option for plates expressing other religions, or non-religion. Thus, the government is favoring a particular religion. It has to be all or none, and as it would be difficult for them to make a license plate representing every religion, the only practical choice is not to make any. And not making these plates certainly doesn’t hurt anyone. Christians can get all kinds of bumper stickers and such if they really feel the need to advertise their religion on their car. I just hope they see the Darwin fish on my truck.
I truly don’t get it.
1) Why do they have this intense need to have the government support and sponsor their faith? What happened to quietly praying in a dark closet?
2) On top of that, why can’t they simply buy their little fish, and bumper stickers, etc.? Why does it have to be the state printing these plates?
3) Finally, why do they have to block others from expressing their point of view? Why do they put in place provisions that not only block skeptics and non-believers, but also block other believers who don’t happen to believe in the same version of the invisible sky sugar daddy?
What’s wrong with a plate that says … “Logic” … or “Reason” …? Or one that says, “Support Science Education?”
All of those are noble messages …
Not sure what the rules are for automobile tags in SC but in TN your group can contact their state representative to sponsor the plate via a bill and then once passed, pay a set-up fee and then guarantee the state that at least 1,000 of your specialty plate would be purchased @ $35ea and you could get just about anything on a license plate. Among the 90-odd variants offered are: Arts Commission with Rainbow, Sons of Confederate Veterans for the Rebel, MADD, American Eagle with “In God We Trust”, Children’s Hospital, Elvis, and several Universities (mind-boggingly for ones in other states!).
The military oriented ones even include one for Enemy Evadees. Not one for ‘heros’ who get shot down and caught, though.
http://www.tennessee.gov/revenue/vehicle/licenseplates/specialty.htm
Again, while I do not want my state making “I Believe” license plates, the issue on this one is that the process was subverted in getting a specialty plate approved.
In theory any group can apply for a plate if they follow the process that includes design approval and pre-orders along with other things. Who knows if an islamic plate would ever be approved but until they are denied, the issue is that the existing process was subverted and the Christian plate was given special treatment.
establishment clause beats santa claus
first nöel pwn3d by first amendment
WRMartin
That is essentially the same process here in SC. A process the legislature ignored.
Here is the link to the SC “In Reason We Trust” plates.
Sorry, Rev. BDC: I hadn’t read your post explaining the special treatment issue before replying to post 12. Yes, the special treatment is a serious problem, though I stand by what I said–the goverment shouldn’t issue license plates advocating a specific religion (unless they provide one for every religion, which is essentially impossible).
DOOMED ! Mwaahahahahahahahah ! Mwaahahahahahahaha ! Mwaahahahahahaha ! ha.. heh..
[/sitting in swivel chair stroking my bald cat in my unactive volcano island stronghold, thinking of the soon-to-be world domination by our tentacled overlord]
Personally I hate driving through Indiana on my way to my in-laws…seeing “In God We Trust” right in front of me every five seconds is enough to make me puke.
So what have you got against fertility festivals? No pity for little decorated eggs and anthropomorphized bunnies?
Delighted to see this decision.
But really, why doesn’t the government get out of the silly, annoying business of vanity plates anyway? How I long for the days when state license plates were just a standard two-color scheme, devoid of the stupid state slogans, state Web sites, or vanity projects of the car owners. Christ – buy a bumper sticker.
There is a clear difference between a license plate holder with a religious message on it, and putting a religious message on a license plate. The holder is personal property; the plate is government property.
If you want to get excited about this third world state, we also have a “Choose Life” plate, for which the money generated goes to anti-abortion groups.
RevBDCKoTOM-
According to the preliminary ruling, the judge is going to apply the 3 prongs of the ‘Lemon test’ to the plates. It said nothing about the circumvented procedure, fyi.
Oh I agree. The argument will be made though that any group can get a specialty plate in SC if they submit it to the process. I’m not sure if anyone has submitted any for Hindus or Muslims or whatever and if they’d make it through.
Our idiot Lt. Governor is also saying he’ll put up the $4k to get the plates rolling.
Rev.BigDumbChimp,
Bully on the judge and kudos to the plaintiffs then. One would think “In God We Trust” should just about cover it, but noooo.
But think of the money-making potential of selling small edit stickers to place over some plates. Little adhesive-backed 1″x2″ ditties with “Dog”, for example.
;)
Americans really are strange people.
All this god stuff, plus they invented WATERMELON flavoured sweets, I don’t know which is worse.
@ Jeremy #34
I’m from Indiana — so I have to see those license plates all the time. I sympathize.
We’ve a similar case winding its ways through our courts, but with respect to what messages are allowed on vanity plates:
Vanity Plates
Let’s try that again:
http://timesargus.com/article/20081209/NEWS02/812090339/0/NEWS03
dogmeatib#27 wrote:
I think that, at some level, a lot of Christians recognize that faith is a “choice” made for emotional reasons — and one of the emotional needs people have is the need to belong to the In Group. Any reason to believe is Good. What matters is whether you believe, not why. This plate shows you’re part of the group, you belong. Join.
The people who want government support for their religion may think that, if the US government seems to be telling people that you have to believe in God in order to be a real American, then a lot of other people will just unthinkingly go along with it. That works for them. In fact, that may be their own motivation. After all, absent group consensus, their irrational nonsense will have to stand as one idea among others, on its own, and look like what it is and look like what it is, and fall apart. Some Christians apparently seem to need to reassure the world, and themselves, that the choice to believe is the only valid option.
Methinks they protest too much.
A license plate that says “I believe” will not be enough. “In God We Trust” and the fish weren’t enough. Soon it will be little billboards on the top of the cars, like pizza delivery signs, saying:
I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe, I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I believe I really really really really really really do believe.
“This would seem like more of a victory if your currency didn’t ostentatiously endorse a specific deity.”
Well, yeah, but it *ALSO* says it’s worth a dollar, and that ain’t been true for a long time either.
Can I still offer my license plate design feturing a cross and a stain glassed window with the words “Christians are gullible fucking idiots” across the top? Or do I have to stick with the “I believe” matra and put UFOs and BigFoot off to the side?
Here’s a link with details on this case.
As I understand, the reason this was brought forth was because of the special treatment of the plates by the legislature which would probably bring the lemon test into the issue. Especially the second prong. Not that I don’t think that all three are being violated here but the third is the kicker. Arguments can be made that the first and third prongs aren’t being violated but with how this was handled the second prong
seems to be the problem as the Legislature rammed this through only because it is a Christian Plate.
But of course, the disclaimer of IANAL, which is probably obvious.
Forget God it’s Holy Coal you should be believing in…
Holy Clean Coal!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#28167243
On the other hand,am I missing something here? Wasn’t finding a lump of coal in your Christmas stocking supposed to be a bad thing back in the days!
Though what I can’t for the life of me understand is, where is the uproar from the fundies about this sacriledge?
My grandfather’s caddy tells anyone looking
He’s chock-full of ignorant hate;
The frame says “what would Jesus do?”
The plate says IM IR8
Our preacher, he told us he once saw a car
With blasphemy there on the tag–
The license plate read I4NIC8,
So he knew it was owned by a fag
All I want is a customized license
To hang from the back of my truck,
Expressing my hatred of science and schooling–
It says “I’m a dumb stupid fuck”
should be second.
Those activist judges really hate god!!!
Fundy head explosions in three… two… one…
“The “I Believe” plates were shoved through the SC State legislature without having to follow the rules. ”
Can’t wait for that point to be entirely missed by everyone on the god-flogging side.
“2) On top of that, why can’t they simply buy their little fish, and bumper stickers, etc.? Why does it have to be the state printing these plates? ”
So they can create a lovely little controversy to pee their little pants over. To try to spread secularist resources thin while they take over our schools. To be enormous tribalist assholes.
“A license plate that says “I believe” will not be enough. ”
Soon they’ll have to start saying “I believe more than you do.” And “Oh yeah?”
The Establisment Clause is a big deal, and every small victory to protect the Establishment Clause is a big deal. Every violation of the Establishment Clause, no matter how minor, is treason.
The next thing that has to go is taxpayer money being wasted on a chaplain for the United States Senate. Each session of the United States Senate opens with a prayer to a magic fairy. There’s no excuse for this insanity in our secular government.
A SC legislator and the Lt. Gov. are both on record as saying they would not introduce or support a license plate expressing belief in Islam, because, in the legislator’s expressed opinion, his constituents would object. The Lt. Gov., speaking as the simpleton he is, says he wouldn’t introduce or support an Islamic plate because he doesn’t subscribe to its beliefs.
Clearly, only a Protestant Christian can have a license plate expressing his beliefs is South Cackalackee.
No word from any legislator regarding their feelings toward a plate expressing belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Whenever I’m stuck in traffic behind a car with a bumper sticker reading, “I wish I were sailing,” I wish for a bumper sticker that says, “I wish you were sailing, too.”.
Go Lemon Test!
Senecasm, do you have a link for that? All I have is one of our Redneckistan senators saying that Buhddhism and Wicca are not religions.
Many of you are also missing the fact that the representatives who voted for this one specifically stated they would not ratify a similar plate for Muslims:
It doesn’t get much less separation of church and state than that.
I’ve argued this issue until I’m blue in the face with atheists and theists alike. I see the license plate as government speech (even if it a vanity plate) because it’s on government property. Others see this as a personal free speech issue because it is a vanity plate – full stop.
What’s the learned consensus on this? If I’m wrong, I’ll admit it and be proud to have learned something.
senecasam beat me to it. Read the attached article and the original post by PZ for details about the refusal to endorse similar plates for other religions.
Here in Indiana, we still have to put up with “In God We Trust” plates, the only vanity plates that don’t cost extra.
It’s fun to listen to cops on the police scanner calling in information on stopped drivers: “God plate, ABC 123.”
Ask my wife how hopping mad I was when we drove through Indiana last December and saw all those plates for the first time.
I remember Indiana. It’s that hick state with the terrible smell. I used to drive thru it on the way to the East Coast from Chicago. How do people breath in that filth?
Your state’s god plates have to go. No lawsuits yet?
Of course Hoosiers trust God, they can’t trust their fellow Hoosiers. I wonder if any Indianan has AOPC (All others pay cash) as a God plate, in honor of their wonderful Jean Shepherd.
For the fairness folks, remember that the only thing you can believe in is Christianity. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and other faiths are not acceptable on the stained-glass windows. You cannot even get a crucifix, the more common Catholic symbol of their Christianity, you can only get a plain cross. Clearly, the only believers that South Carolina approves of are the Protestants (and then only some of them).
Gotta love the promotion of that whole “freedom of expression” bit. Only when it serves the Pharyngulites, though.
It will still be all but impossible to get tickets to see lions eating christians in the collseum.
Putting religious bumper stickers on your car and having the state do it for you are two very different things. If people want to put religious bumper stickers on their car, they are welcome to do so. Just as non-religious are – that’s freedom of expression. By having the state do so, it’s promoting one religion over another and that’s a violation of the laws of the land.
To be fair to Indiana, there are some bright spots of skepticism/atheism such as Bloomington (Where Indiana University is located). I have family there and a fair number of them are pretty liberal and of the atheist persuasion. Of course, Bloomington is a relatively small town and I’m sure all the country bumpkins surrounding the area are probably all good god-fearing young earth creationists ;)
Hey everyone,
I’m from Indiana. And yes, I can’t stand those “In God We Trust” license plates. But at least we have some of the best science standards in the United States.
I’m keeping the iPod!
“Gotta love the promotion of that whole “freedom of expression” bit. Only when it serves the Pharyngulites, though.”
It’s astonishing how you manage to ignore whatever you don;t like to see.
Where’s the “freedom of expression” plate for atheists? For jews? For wiccans? For hindus?
whoville, you can advertise your stupidity all you want. You just can’t expect the government to do that for you. This is not a theocracy. If you don’t like that, get out of my country, christian retard.
Money. They get a premium registration fee. Plus, people want to move the plate so they’ve got pay a transfer fee. AND many states reissue plates, some as frequently as annually, others every three-to-five years. These you don’t have to reissue.
Whoville isn’t a proponent of free expression, he’s just another religious zealot who cannot understand why there are people who don’t believe the stories he believes. Maybe if we became imbeciles, we could be conned into believing the same stories.
I checked. You’re right. That’s something to be proud of.
From the Thomas B. Fordham Institute:
In the life sciences, the early introduction of fossils is noteworthy. Although evolution content does not appear explicitly until grade 8 (the word itself is used throughout, however), the subject is handled solidly. Indeed, Indiana stands out in discussing appropriately the issues of human evolution. High school life science content is in general explicit, mostly to the point, and at a high level. We had no difficulty in assigning the grade “A.”
i know the rev. has already said it, but: hurray for my state. it’s not often we get to see the religious majority struck down by the legal system and logic.
i was really disappointed when the dmv announced that they were issuing them because there had already been and are religious “themed” license plates. Now maybe i can convince my mom to just buy a “share the road” plate.
Whoa. I had no idea that my not-really-giving-a-shit would be so controversial ;-).
Rev BDC:
Thanks for that; that was new information to me, and does put a very different color on the situation.
Absent that special treatment, I just don’t find the whole establishment clause argument that persuasive, since notwithstanding the “owned by the state” argument, the plates remain a choice of individuals and could be not unreasonably considered personal rather than state expression.
However, if the legislature is applying a special consideration for the Christian license plates in expempting normal rules being followed, I agree that that puts it into establishment clause territory.
At least three states have state motto’s that include “God”, a license plate is small change for government support of religion.
“hurray for my state” your arse. Your state passed it unanimously. It was a federal judge that scotched it.
Hurray for federal judges. Another reason to thank goodness Obama was elected. He can be trusted to appoint competent federal judges.
If gawd is all powerful, why didn’t he win?
If gawd is all knowing, then he saw this coming and wanted it to be so.
If gawd is all loving, then he let the atheists win, because he loves us more.
Gawd is getting confused.
You guys are so cruel. It hurts NO ONE to have a friggin number plate. If its not bad enough u are trying to stop Christmas now u are stopping people getting license plates!! Whats next, blocking churches?? Killing priests???
#85: Your concern has been noted, and it is stupid.
I am not a resident of South Carolina but I would not have purchased such a license plate even if it were allowed. As a believer though if this injunction gets a lot of press IMHO you might expect to see a backlash of “I believe” merchandise marketed (window stickers, license plate holders, antenna attachments etc.) You might see that kind of stuff all over cars if it gets much traction in the news or the pundits get involved. That might be worse for the atheists in the long run than the original license plate that only a few might choose. Doesn’t really matter to me either way.
Use strawman arguments much?
GodIsLove, surely you wouldn’t mind if the state printed licence plates that said “All praises to Allah”, or “God is a fairy tale for grown ups”?
Has anyone ever actually seen a religious nut get the point?
Everybody is jealous of “Live Free Or Die”.
I would keep away from cars which sais “all praise to allah” they would be off to bomb someone.
@#92:
Poe, surely?
Louise Van Court #37 wrote:
No, it wouldn’t be worse, because the issue really does have to do with church-state separation, not whether or not people are displaying religious icons and messages on their cars, and how many are doing it.
I remember a few years back some atheist group sued to have a manger scene removed from City Hall and won. In “retaliation,” the Nativity was moved to a more prominent spot in the middle of the downtown, on land owned by a businessman. People put extra nativities up everywhere, to “get even” with the atheists, and send them a message.
But the atheists were puzzled. Their response of course was that this wasn’t a problem. It was what they wanted in the first place: religious expressions on private property, not government land. Freedom of the individual.
Whenever atheists fight for the separation of church and state, there are many people who just don’t get it. They think atheists are like vampires, cringing in front of crosses, or maybe Grinches, trying to ruin people’s Christmas. Despite the fact that Christians keep insisting that only God “justifies” belief in Higher Values, the entire concept of acting on principle seems to escape them.
No Brian my name is Bob
Wow, just wow.
Are you done trolling yet?
With luck, you are Poe. I sincerely hope that you are not really as ignorant and hate-filled as you present yourself here.
Oy.
My comment #97 was aimed at “GodIsLove”. Presumably his last name is “SoICanHate”.
@ 11,
Is there something I should know?
GIL: [killfile] [hide]
*waves*
To be so stupid as to have missed the point so entirely, you must’ve suffered serious brain injury… during a prostate check.
Are u threatening me ennui?
U will one day have to meet ur maker and then we will see who will get the last laugh!!!
@ Axis of Weasel…
This may seem like a strange question, but… you don’t happen to hail from the finger-lakes area of NY, do you?
GodIsPoe #102
I meet my makers every Sunday for dinner. My female maker isn’t much of a cook, but she smokes like a chimney, so she’s got that going for her. My male maker is a sad reminder of my impending hair loss.
*sigh*
How do trolls and fundies learn to write/type when they have such obvious difficulties with reading and comprehension?
FFS, the problem with the plates has been explained quite thoroughly multiple times in this thread.
Here, maybe this’ll help:
Celtic? Does that mean you are a hell bound Catholic?
Step #6, suffer ridicule.
Raguits: Here is your logic
1. Realise there is a God.
2. Discover sin.
3. Believe sin is better than God so u deny he exists
4. Die
5. BURN IN HELL FOREVER
GodIsPoe
Heck no… that means I like to visit my parents on Sundays. Sheesh… you really are stupid (see… I can Poe too).
As an aside, I used to be a Catholic. But then again, I used to believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy. I grew out of those, too. At least I got something out of those silly beliefs.
GodIsLove, you are either a poor Poe or a simpleton. Either way, the fun in toying with your limited intellect has worn off.
Moving on…
GIL, you god doesn’t exist until you prove it does. Right now, you are a liar and bullshitter without your imaginary god. Repent your sins and post no more.
Nerd: You know God exists. I can tell by what you write.
That hole in your heart should be filled with God instead of hate and bile. You hide your ignorance behind “prove it” as if God will consider that to be a legit exuse.
U want proof of God??? Get on your knees, BELIEVE, PRAY and sincerely REPENT and that will prove to you GOD is REAL and CHANGES LIVES
GIL, you are a liar and bullshitter until you show some physical evidence for your imaginary deity. Until then, you are the delude fool. Bend on your knees ask our forgiveness for your arrogance for posting your insanities here. Of course, you can save face by just stopping your insipid posts.
GodIsLove:
Yes, obviously, I immolate the people I love as well. I just wish I could get that “forever” bit down, because I really love them.
I’m pretty sure he’s both.
Seriously, don’t feed the trolls – Poe or otherwise. Though I can’t imagine he’s going to be here for much longer; PZ’ll no doubt yank him before too long.
Hey, is there a tech support number for this process? I’m halfway though the process, but unless I can get Zeus to shut up I don’t think God’s gonna be able to get a word in edgewise.
I don’t see the harm. As long as you get an choice between ‘I believe’ and ‘I know’.
GodIsLove:
1. Realise there is a penis.
2. Discover God.
3. Believe God is better than penis so u deny he exists
4. Die
5. Never know the joys of penis
Obviously you aren’t paying attention to the whole FUCKING thread on why this is wrong.
You moron.
GodIsLove is intentional Poe. 100%.
lame
Scroll up and read why. Then come back.
Me too! Santa was great: a bike, teddy bears, toys; and the Tooth Fairy? How can a guy with so many teeth be such a sucker? Hard cash for useless deciduous body parts? Only a Toenail Fairy or a Snot Fairy could’ve been better. But the Jesus Fairy was never worth a penny, in fact, I gave him money and I didn’t even get “this lousy tee-shirt”.
I don’t think you are a real reverend Rev. BigDumbChimp. The things you say are not those a man of the cloth would say. For shame.
Like shove a large pointy garden Gnome up your ass?
intentional poe is lame
Matthew 7:5
Stop feeding the Poe-troll. Seriously. I’m sick of this fucking idiot.
exactly
Loki: More like Matt 7:6, pearls before SWINE
GodIsLove: You’re a SWINE?
#122 GodIsLove:
If it helps, I am an ordained minister in the state of California, where I am lawfully entitled to use the style “Reverend” (I choose not to) and perform wedding ceremonies, and I think you’re a snot-groveling fuckwad of spunk-matted hair from a baboon’s balls.
Loki: I know you are so what am i (even my kids have grown out of that game)
“I don’t think you are a real reverend Rev. BigDumbChimp. The things you say are not those a man of the cloth would say. For shame.”
Feh. You can get ordained as a reverend through the mail.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/may/05/the-story-behind-the-wedding-of-lou-reed-laurie/
There was a tattoo artist in the town where I went to college who did just that so that he could attach the “Reverend” title to his business. I figure Bigdumb is as much a reverend as anyone.
(BTW, why didn’t anyone tell me that Lou Reed married Laurie Anderson? How perfect is that?)
GodIsLove: And I’ve grown out of calling hatred love.
Loki: I hear that a lot from women in abusive relationships. I tell them thats its a worse sin to get a divorce. You should not hate – it will give you an ulcur and kill you early before you have time to repent. Remember God hates sin not the sinner.
“Gotta love the promotion of that whole “freedom of expression” bit. Only when it serves the Pharyngulites, though.”
You want to express yourself? Put a big friggin’ cross on your car. Or perhaps a crucifix with a bloody Jesus on it, moaning in mortal pain. Or better yet, wear the crown of thorns yourself. You want to play the martyr, then get serious.
License plate, pah, what a total weaksauce method of expression. I’d be more concerned about your right to express yourself if A) there weren’t a million other ways to do it that didn’t abuse the apparatus of government and b) you weren’t peeing your pants over a means of expression that you probably didn’t even know about until reading this blog post.
GIL,meet killfile….
I just wish people wouldnt feed it.
Feed it, hell. Stop quoting it!
GodIs”Love”: If you tell women who are being hurt that they should not divorce, then you are evil, and filled with hate. Just like your God of hate.
@GodIsLove
What about annulments?
Rev. BigDumbChimp #120, I meant to put a smiley-face at the end. Maybe I was just *too* subtle.
But seriously, wouldn’t ‘I know’ be awesome?
They are harassing us about our words, let us harass them about their Word. Time to move proactively! I Know a couple of our own OM’s have a flair for the Scriptures, so without further ado, i post this link to a “special place”: http://theologica.ning.com/
The highest of the lowest! The cream of the crap!
Oh, i do hope that some will take this a a great challenge! There is so much damage to be done. *Chuckles Maniacally*
shonny: You cannot test the LORD. He is not some GENIE IN A FRIGGIN BOTTLE. Could you imagine two people praying for two contradictory things, or something which goes against HIS WILL????
I NEVER ask for things for myself. I always say a prayer for OTHER people. I am praying for EVERYONE in this group but I feel the DEMONIC forces are strong in here with the evil pagan leader PZ temping you all with sex and sin.
I am here to SHINE A LIGHT OF GOOD on this place so that you might be saved from HELL.
I wrote a letter of thanks to the reporter at the Houston Chronicle for her story last month about Cynthia Dunbar, the loonie-tunes homeschooling fundie on the Texas State Board of Education.
Today’s paper had a great followup article, focusing on some of the gibbering insanity in Cynthia’s new book.
I bet this reporter wouldn’t mind a bit more positive feedback to balance out some of the coocoo bananas hatred I’m sure fills her inbox…
Loki:
Even the EVIL CATHOLIC church praised a woman for staying with her husband despite him beating her continuously until she died. Its just a pity she was with the wrong church as she will now be IN HELL
Twin-Skies:
Can you annul SEX?
Can you annul SIN?
Can you annul AIDS?
Thank FSM I’m now on my home PC with the sweet, sweet killfile option. If y’all must feed the troll, go ahead – he’s dead to me!
I see GIL is still posting gibberish here.
What is your reason for being here? You will not convince anyone here with your incoherent rants,and the commenters here are so far more humanistic,knowledgeable,and tolerant that all youre doing is to make a total ass of yourself.
But we get that a lot.
PZ will have some gardening to do in the morning.
GodIs”Love”: In other words, you call a real live woman being tortured to death, “good”, and you call your evil and hate-filled God torturing people after death, “good”.
You are evil and hate filled yourself, just like your evil and hate-filled God.
Loki: If she believed in JESUS she would be in HEAVEN FOREVER. Even an infinite amount of suffering IN THIS WORLD would be worth HEAVEN. DUH!!
God does not torture people. People CHOOSE to be tortured!
GodIs”Love”: If God does not torture people, then she is not burning in hell, because people do NOT choose to be tortured. DUH!
@God Is Love
Yeah, I’m sure the kids in the shanties near my neighborhood are getting hepatitis, dengue, and other nasty diseases because it’s the rage nowadays.
Cuttlefish, once again you manage to surpass your usual high standard, thanks.
The Penis is the Root of Evil!
GodIsLove
Yes you can, John 20:24-29
Well, GIL, let them pray for each other, that will be even more fun! Nothing like being prayed for when you have to make a life-or-death decision.
And yes, your mannerism is way too civilized. And I definitely don’t want to miss out hell. That other place sounds exceedingly boring.
From Canada
Merry christmas. Good strategy from these activists.
Kidding.
First this is a attack on the Christian beliefs of the American people. Thousands of years of Christiondom, hundreds of years of a very protestant country getting along with each other and Catholic and other peoples coming in, and the bad guys here try to stop people with evil license plates saying, vaguely, they believe in a great God of the universe.
Separation of church/state? Now its separation of church/license plate.
The founders of america, people and leaders would never of thought their great ideas on separating the State and church from interfering with each other would be corrupted into a tool to interfere indeed with peoples faith.
The state is not everything the state pays for. It is literaly the state as a power.
These things are not related to the state/church ideas of a very protestant people hundreds of years ago.
Its the peoples cars, plates, and country. They must get their way of its not a free country buy a tyranny.
This is a good example of why overthrowing all these church/state things , including censorship of creationism in the schools, should be a aggresive cause for a new republican attack against a liberal establishment and liberal democratic government dominance. Good stuff here.
The Rev. Dr. Thomas A. Summers, is originally from my home town. He really has the locals confused as the last time he was in the news he was marching for equal rights for homosexuals.
Byers, as usual
Never had thought churches had been, or have now the ambition to control the license plate business.
Mind you, in Byers dreams of a theocracy, there is a clear separation of church and state : church controls everything, state nothing.
a tool to interfere indeed with peoples faith.
Please cite any instance of someone’s faith being interfered with. Note that not getting preferential treatment from the government is *not* the same as being denied your right to worship the gods of your choice.
Byers,
You are an idiot.
People God Is Love is intentional Poe.
Very fucking lame intentional poe.
Intentional Poes,too many there are….
Indeed, Master Yoda.
Very fucking lame intentional poe.
[citation needed]
This coming from A FAKE REVEREND
GIL, I’m sure you have worn a cotton/polyester blend sometime during your life. When can we arrange for your stoning as your loving imaginary deity requires?
yawn
I’m ordained and can marry people legally….
wait, why am I answering you
you asshole.
What makes a real reverend?
This is not exactly off-topic.
Pat Condell’s latest video, Godless and Free, the same video that prompted religious intolerance to pressure YouTube to suspend his account months ago, has now been arbitrarily removed (censored). There’s nothing objectionable in that video. You can see for yourself in mirror channels going up left and right. Here’s one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5J_x7tYzZ8
Also there is a boycott of YouTube scheduled for December 19th, which I will be joining.
Censorship is vile, especially when it is the result of incessant religious intolerance.
Has anyone noticed that the tendency for violence as a result of religious intolerance has an increasingly obvious analogy in the increasingly antagonistic litigious behavior of the RIAA?
Religion wants to take credit for every aspect of our lives, just as the record companies take the lion’s share of earnings from the labor of musical artists.
Modernity is catching up to both religion and the big record labels, and the masses are slowly growing more aware that these institutions are obsolete parasitical middlemen. These parasites are increasingly on the offensive in a last-ditch effort to maintain their parasitical status quo. Both will apparently stop at nothing to censor, stifle, and attack anything that threatens their sweet deal, artists and citizens be damned.
But we know they’re both equally superfluous.
Incidentally,Ive just spent a very nice evening playing a Star Wars game LOL
So Emmet and the Rev can marry people ? Im impressed,can we do one of these Las Vegas things maybe,the next Molly winner gets to get married by Emmet or RevBDC in Vegas,with the local Atheist society choir singing “November rain” and Richard Dawkins reading from “The God Delusion”,and then we all get smashed at some Pizza place? Id get a visa for that…:-)
oh yeah… which one?
The Knights of the old Republic-Sith Lords one….
There is no such thing as a reverend. “The Reverend” is a manner of address, not a noun.
Ahhh yes. I’ve played that game. They’re coming out with a MMORPG based on it.
That sounds like fun!
Poll Crash Time!
http://www.foxcarolina.com/index.html
Their question of the day: Should the “I Believe” plates be sold?
Cuttlefish, that was fantastic! One of my favourites of yours that I’ve seen so far, I think.
ha! While Byers truly is a moron, this line was just hilarious. I’m hoping to work it into a conversation myself, of course dripping with sarcasm though.
The South Carolina “In Reason We Trust” plate is available to all Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry members. All you have to do is bring your membership card to the DMV and you will walk out with a plate.
However, the state requires you to show membership, unlike the “In God We Trust” which is available to anyone, and has been issued to those who have not requested one.
In turn, the SHL has made the membership cards available to download on their website for anyone to fill out if they want their plate.
http://lowcountryhumanists.org/IRWT.php
@ : Brain Hertz: “On the other hand, since they are chosen by individuals”…
The point is that Jews and Muslims and Animists and Atheists and Hindus and Buddhists and Wickens and every other group cannot choose a plate to promote their viewpoint. Only Christians have the option. That’s called discrimination, and it violates the separation of church ans state. End of story.
My bizarro mind pictures driving down the road, noticing a SC “I Beleive” licence plate with the tag number 666.
carry on.
This is coming late in this comment thread, but anyways…
Jeremy @ #34
I live in Indiana, and I think that those “In God We Trust” license plates are a good thing and are very useful; those plates allow me to quickly identify the lousy drivers in this state so that I can take appropriate countermeasures (which usually means putting them in my rear view mirror).
Back when this first came up, I made up a few other license plates I thought should be included.
Not exactly the case here. See comments 14 and 29
Mr Byers.
Also from Canada, here.
You are a fucking moron.
That poll (Post #174) only has 183 votes. I foresee a serious crashing….
Canadian here too. I second that.
Also, Mr. Byers, try to be a tiny bit more coherent. Think about how separation of church and state (that includes “separation of license plate and church”, whatever that means) guarantees your right to practice your religion, rather than the one that may be forced by the state, which may be any other. The whole world (or indeed, the whole country) is not your brand of christian, Mr. Byers.
Block quote/ (However one does that)
Mr Byers.
Also from Canada, here.
You are a fucking moron “/ end
Also from Canada here.
I third that.
Also, you are but semi-literate. Back to school, goof-ball.
As for “GodIsLove” — so filled with hate, ignorance, and the stupid, you are an excellent example of :
The Political Right Is Morally Wrong!
Surely for road safety purposes would you not all be supporting these plates?
From Canada
Kemist.
Well to practice your religion means to put your religius stuff on your stuff. If the state says NO. Then they are breaking the separation concept. The state is not the license plate but only what the state organizes/pays for. Its not the STATE as a governing thing.
Otherwise one should never pray out loud crossing a state built bridge, (Today with affirmative action/set asides/ minority preferences there should be prayer then ever)otherwise one would be interfering with the state with ones beliefs
In all these things it is a great error to see the separation of church/state as including that the state is everything its involved in. Which today is everything and in the day of the constitution creation was nothing.
The very protestant people of the thirteen colonies never meant the separation clause to be used to attack expressions of faith in anything. they just meant what is clear. No bossing religion by those in power and no religious POWERS bossing the government.
Stopping powers from interfering was the intent and not stopping individuals or collectives from expressing confidently their faith or different faith or no faith.
Today this has been corrupted since the 60’s into a interfering with the public in their faith expressions/beliefs where it pops on common/public areas including stuff the government pays or is involved in.
The good guys just need better lawyers. Good guys are those who want faith in evidence in government/public areas.
Schools, courtrooms, anywhere speech goes on.
The future.
I wonder if these people who want these license plates have read Matthew 6: “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.” Maybe there is an exemption for license plates, but I don’t remember coming across that verse. :-)
This part of the country’s fulla nutcases.
Apparently denied blog access and female companionship (yes, cheap shot, but a good bet, eh?), a frustrated Christian expresses himself.
Those are the Georgia Guide Stones.
Byers you are an idiot.
“Today this has been corrupted since the 60’s into a interfering with the public in their faith expressions/beliefs where it pops on common/public areas including stuff the government pays or is involved in.”
Not even wrong. Sorry.
Let us have a choice between an “I BELIEVE” tag, or an
“I DON’T BELIEVE” tag. That would make everyone happy then.