My old home state, Washington (uh, I’ve got the right one, right? This isn’t DC, I hope), is waging the war on Christmas, as is appropriate for one of the most godless states in the country. The FFRF has put up a sign nestled among the religious symbols at the Capitol:
At this season of the Winter Solstice may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.
I’m impressed with the guy who put up a nativity scene, too: he says the atheist sign doesn’t bother him, and that free speech is great. That’s what we need more of — mutual elbow room and tolerance.
Oh, and there’s also a tree, only it’s not a Christmas tree. It’s the Capitol Holiday Kids Tree. I like it.
Not everyone is happy, though: one cranky commentator spills a little bile, and then ironically snarks about the holiday spirit. So not everyone in the state is enlightened, but then there are always a few kooks on the fringe.
Happy mythmas. Its enjoyment is inversely proportional to one’s investment in its truthiness.
So I’m glad the skeptics aren’t grinches, only reminding everyone that it’s just a bit of fun (at least I’m reading it that way).
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
I don’t understand the war on Christmas. It’s pointless to get all huffy about religious things during a supposed religious holiday.
My strategy is, I think, better off. I call in SciMas to myself and, personally, celebrate science and humanity! Happy SciMas to all!!
Wiki had this to say:
“Ken Schram is a small time Seattle, Washington news and radio broadcaster.”
And not much more. So, enjoy him as a target of ridicule.
Ken Schram! HA! I can just imagine that sanctimonious turd bloviating away!
Ah, I miss Seattle and Washington. I really hope I can get back there as soon as possible.
Fucking christians always ruining everything! Christmas was a perfectly good secular shopping holiday in America until they decided to steal it for themselves! (true story, look it up) It’s time for us to launch our war FOR Christmas. We can’t afford to let the Christmas Terrorists like bill o’reilly win.
Washington the most godless state? Not even! New Hampshire takes that title (well, New Hampshire/Vermont). Massachusetts is way up there as well. That is, if the most recent Pew Religious Landscape is to be believed.
Maybe that’s part of the reason that same-sex marriage is legally recognized only in two New England states. Ya think?
Right, you don’t understand. “The War on Christmas” is not atheists getting all huffy about religious stuff, in fact it is just the opposite. It is the religious getting all huffy about the use of non-religious language (“Happy Holidays”) to celebrate the season.
Secondly, it is not a religious holiday, it is a pagan celebration that has been co-opted by the religious. Most of the the trappings of Christmas are pagan in origin and have nothing to do with christianity at all (including the date).
I didn’t even get a chance to read the blowhard’s rant. The page loaded, I saw his picture and the title of his segment, and I laughed. Without having read it, I think I could write his tirade for him and hit most of the points he hits in his already-writ expulsion of bile.
I have to wonder if there are any Christians today who refuse to erect Crimble trees because they are too much like Asherah poles. Is this anything we can use to keep the holiday secular?
Deuteronomy 16:21 (King James Version):
Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee.
2 Kings 23:6 (King James Version):
And he brought out the grove from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.
The War On Christmas is over.
The malls won.
The victory was years ago, but the religious nuts haven’t figured it out yet. No one ever accused them of being particularly intelligent. They’ve been attacking an enemy that exists only in their own delusions, and they didn’t even notice when they lost.
Posted by: phantomreader42 | December 2, 2008
The War On Christmas is over.
The malls won.
And then the zombies took over the mall.
— Jeremiah 10:2-4
Wikipedia lists lots of places called Washington,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_(disambiguation) so I think we need to be very careful here. Pee Zed’s geography is now known to be as wayward as his horns, forked tail, and many arms, so I suspect this “Washington” actually a code word for the War on christmass. Like “swordfish”.
Most amusing are the offended Christians whining with Ken in his comment section. “Wah. We Satanists don’t get to have our display up.” “Wah. Atheists should work on Christmas if they hate it so much.”
I’m not warring on Christmas. Or Halloween, or any other holiday, as an atheist. I don’t care if someone, in a store, places their Christian decorations up or wishes me a Happy Generic-Style Holiday. However, when the government is putting up a holiday display – I demand that it is secular in nature, or, at the very least doesn’t give some beliefs preferential treatment over other beliefs. When the government gets involved, it gets all tangled up with the Establishment Clause. Random stranger, or business – can believe, shout, spew Christianity and Jesus-nonsense to their little hearts’ content as far as I’m concerned. If they do such Christianing-about in the privacy of their homes, or churches – I am all for that. If they do it in my hearing, in my direction – I am all for giving said thoughts the respect they deserve – subjecting them to the observable reality I live in, with questions, criticism, and if needed, mockery.
Well, I for one miss the True Spirit of Christmas, when I could go around wishing “Merry Christmas!” to one and all, especially Jews and brown people, just to remind ’em what kind of nation this really is.
Sadly, in these days of political correctness, I wonder how in the world a
lazywhite man like me is supposed tokeep the advantage over women and minoritiescompete on a level playing field.“It is not a religious holiday, it is a pagan celebration that has been co-opted by the religious.”
So Pagans aren’t religious?
Merry Mithras
TRiG.
“Not everyone is happy, though: one cranky commentator spills a little bile, and then ironically snarks about the holiday spirit.”
Oh poor Mr. Scrooge.
Why don’t we just… ditch all the angels and manger and dude christ… and you know, just work with Santa? I think Santa’s secular enough. It’s the red dude at the north pole! Great story for kids.
I’d love if from now on Christmas was just Santa Day….mas. I think the Santa dude pretty much beat Jesus in popularity afterall.
So Pagans aren’t religious?
True, I was using “religious” as a euphemism for “Christian”, my bad. I should have written:
It is not originally a Christian holiday, it was a pagan celebration that has been co-opted by Christianity.
Nah, not Santa Day, but Hogfather Day. Presents, sausages, and the sun rises.
While I am very pleased to see that we have progressed this far (and I am proud of my state for not vetoing this outright), I worry that this will incite more backlash than a less aggressive display would have. I’ve been debating with friends since last night about this, and it’s been tough to defend this display as being “in the holiday spirit.” On the other hand, I’ve been able to secure quite a bit of ground from them supporting less hostile atheistic expressions this season, and I plan to cash in on that with my holiday cards.
So bless the extreme views, for they make moderate views all the more palatable!
The ‘cranky commentator’ at http://www.komonews.com has generated a vast flood of comments. They’re notable for the strong atheist presence and an unusually unacrimonious debate.
There’s still plenty of stupid and godding, but it’s a lot more healthy than many such arguments I’ve seen. Unusual state, that one.
“It is not originally a Christian holiday, it was a pagan celebration that has been co-opted by Christianity.”
Yeah. Just wait until they try and co-opt July 4th.
Sorry Benjamin Geiger, but some guy on the internet says that Jeremiah 10:2 actually doesn’t apply to Christmas trees, according to some apologetic bullshit; likely from the same branch of apologetics that teaches Christians that Matthew 5:38-42 does not literally mean ‘turn the other cheek’, but in fact ‘bomb some Aye-rabs’.
Of course, anything in the bible that condemns homosexuals is literal and requires no further interpretation.
In short: if you do it and the Bible says not to, then *Clickety-click—Barba Trick”!* the Bible isn’t actually referring to you, so do whatever you were doing with aplomb! but if somebody else does something and the Bible says not to, well then Jesus be praised, it’s time to get motherfuckin’ Old Testament on their ass.
I’d have a lot more respect for these Christian traditions that so badly need protecting if only there was anything about them to respect.
Fantastic! This is how it should be! No special treatment for any religion. Everyone gets a say. People don’t get that this is why people are offended by nativity scenes; not the presence of Christian imagery so much as the absence of other points of view.
There’s a town somewhere that allows all manner of public art on the lawn, including a bear sculpture, a big wooden Jesus, and a Flying Spaghetti monster.
Kevin #2 wrote:
Emphasis on the word “supposed.” In co-opting prior celebrations and claiming values and festivities which resonate with all people, the Christians have lost the “Christ” in Christmas. The nail on the coffin was when it was proclaimed a national holiday by the government. That made Christmas officially secular.
Gift-giving and charity, family and food, joy and peace on earth can be enjoyed and promoted by everyone. Take “the birth of Jesus” out, and nothing is lost. In fact, the more it’s universalized, the better. The Jesus story is really pretty creepy, if you look at the whole thing. Blood atonement for sin? Please, no.
Sure, let the Christians have a part of it. Their families can focus on one aspect. And everyone else has their part of Christmas too. There’s no wrong way to celebrate it. That’s the message that reflects the TRUE meaning of Christmas. I say we push it. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas.
As it stands, Christmas is no more about religion than morality is. As little as the Religious Right likes non-christians trying to “ban Christmas,” they hate non-christians saying “Merry Christmas” even more.
When it comes to government displays, they need to reflect the fact that the holiday is not just about one sect’s religion. Having ONLY a nativity says “Jesus is the Reason for the Season” — something a secular state cannot say. Stick in the Santa, snowmen, and Rudolph.
Christmas for everyone!
BTW, the War on Hanukkah has already been started by the Commander-in-Chief himself.
Under whose definition of ‘holiday spirit’, I wonder?
I’m still mad about Rancho Cucamonga. Brayton’s all over it:
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/11/city_censors_antireligion_bill.php
Ken Schram is a well-known blowhard who envies the fame of the big-name cable news shouting heads. Just do as the locals do and ignore him.
Since I’m spending part of the holiday in northern Oregon this year, allow me to wish everyone a Merry Clackamas!
I think FFRF has had a sign with identical wording (?) in the Madison, Wisconsin capital building this time of year for quite a while now.
“At this season of the Winter Solstice may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”
Good news!!! And in the holiday spirit! Nobody’s going to hell!
Hey, if the Christians can take their belief that all the non-Christians who don’t ‘accept’ in the blood sacrifice of Jesus are damned and call it happy, happy Good News, then we’ve got our “good news” too: to wit, Jesus and the whole damnation thing is full of shit. Peace on earth, good will to all.
“May reason prevail” is a positive message. It’s Christmas-y. Much more Christmas-y than that superstitious guff about a savior.
My mom has a nativity set, Jesus, Mary and Joseph (!) are all blond haired and blue eyed. My mom hates it when I call it her aryan nativity action figures.
Merry Sithmas !
Sorry Sastra, but I don’t agree.
Let the Christians keep Christmas, secularise it, or make it their most holy high day in the middle of July, for all I care. But that’s theirs to do with what they want, and as long as there are Christians to celebrate it, I’ll wish them a hearty and heart-felt ‘Merry Christmas’ should I encounter one that wants it.
But to suggest that it’s become an inclusive, non-religiously defining secularised holiday is to deny some important facts about its history and significance, both to Christians and non.
I’d liken it to saying to women, “Oh, come off of it. ‘Mankind’ refers to women too, and has ever since the late 60s–practically ancient history.” We’ve seen what happens when we suggest replacing the non-gender-specific ‘mankind’ with the equally-non-gender-specific ‘womankind’, and I’ll bet we’d see the same if we all started suggesting that a generic and secular Hanukkah includes us all, complete with dreidel-making elf-golems in a shop run jointly by Santa Claus and Hannukah Harry both proclaiming “l’chaim to all, and to all a good night!”
This is why I’ll continue to wish people ‘Happy Holidays’ as long as I don’t know what holiday they celebrate or even if they do. Let anybody celebrate whatever they want, and if it happens to fall somewhere between Halloween and Valentine’s Day, it’ll get included in those Holidays. It’s generic, yes, but I do have friends that celebrate Christmas, Hanukkah, and the Solstice–sometimes all three–and if my goal is to indeed wish the best for people, why would I co-opt a greeting that reminds those who aren’t part of the majority (or minority, or whatever) of their status? (I like Festivus myself–historically, all my family holiday dinners have included an “Airing of the Grievances” anyway, so…. But I would never wish a ‘Happy Festivus’ to someone I suspect doesn’t celebrate it–why remind them that they celebrate a less meaningful and spiritual holiday than I merely because of the church, synagogue, or grove they were most likely born into?)
The card he really wanted to send said, “Please hurry up and build that wall and bring about the Rapture, so we can stop pretending to like and tolerate you guys,” but he couldn’t find a staffer that didn’t set off the spellcheck by writing ‘pertend’ and ‘
toller…taler…tolerai… and like you guys.’Scariest comment on the King 5 News site:
It actually frightens me – literally, not in a figurative way – that we have citizens of this country that have such a profound misunderstanding of the constitution. It’s dangerous.
I like that Washington accepted the sign and agree with much of it, but it doesn’t sound very tolerant of others to me. I think trying to convert the masses with a negative sign is about as fruitful as sending door-to-door religions boys trying to explain their take on the bible to someone that isn’t receptive to it. If the beliefs held by a person are strong enough, no sign or lecture will convince them otherwise. It’s just annoying. Oh and sadly religion isn’t a myth. It’s very real. It’s the god(s) invoked by religion that I question.
For next year’s sign may I suggest it read, “Token symbol to represent the atheist voice”.
Woo Washington, best state ever. (Only the West side).
The atheist and agnostic Xmas (or Holiday) displays are a great idea. Around the Solstice, there are so many holidays that anyone can pick one or a few to celebrate.
My main consideration is that the serious ones don’t work. A photo of the World Trade Center site or a priest torturing a heretic doesn’t really fit in.
The best ones are light hearted and artistic. It’s a holiday, have fun, and laugh. Being serious all the time is a drag whether you are a brain dead psycho creo or an atheist. The message should be, atheists are normal people doing normal things, not genocidal maniacs waiting to burn down your church.
The Wiccans manage to put a few some years. That must go over well with a certain type of fanatic.
Oh no, an unnamed person at an unknown location won’t let people say “Merry Christmas”! Damn that ACLU!
(Yes, it’s time for the “war on christmas” urban legend to die.)
Too Funny
The bit I find potentially disturbing (in PZ’s links) is that it’s a “rural fire departments” tree; so the “lighting ceremony for the tree” may be a conflagration (with or without seasonal witch burnings).
Brownian, OM #34 wrote:
I still disagree. Christmas has drawn from too many traditions, contains too many secular aspects of celebration, and has embedded itself too deeply into the general culture and even law, for it to be identified as an exclusively “Christian” holiday. I think the Christ in Christmas is going the same way as the Estre in Easter, the Saint in Saint Valentine’s Day, the Hallow in Halloween, and the holy in holiday — and we should help push it along.
The ‘significance’ of a holiday is flexible: bottom line, it becomes whatever people make it, whatever its historical origins or background once were. Traditions celebrate change, as much as continuity — a nod to the past, interpreted through today. Perhaps the religious meaning seems more expendable to me, because I was raised as a freethinker, and our family celebrated Christmas. I have all the warm memories and value all the traditions — and the nativity story was put on the same level of seriousness as Rudolph the Reindeer, and was far less important than Santa Claus. I know it can be done. In fact, it’s happening today — how many Christmas specials are about Jesus being born so he can die for our sins as the “true meaning of Christmas?”
I do see your point. People can choose to do what they choose to do. I have no problem wishing non-christian people Happy Holidays or whatever if they prefer to consider Christmas as having to do with Jesus — but that’s politeness on my part, not an agreement. The more Christmas is used as a generic holiday, the less Christianized the country will be. Christians should have been more careful. “Hannuka Harry” and pagan trees would have killed Hannuka.
People find it extraordinarily easy to divide up Christmas into its minor religious aspect — and the more significant values that it has come to represent. As Christians complain: we’re talking about love, and leaving out Jesus! To say that the peace, good will, and merriment of Christmas applies to those who believe the New Testament is like granting that Christianity invented morality, or love, or citizenship.
To me, secularizing Christmas is not popularizing the notion that Christianity is the standard and other people are outsiders borrowing their ideas: it’s doing the opposite. It’s pointing out that it’s already ours.
TRiG, I had never heard of this show. I do know of Fry, from seeing clips of his show with Hugh Laurie. But, this is now my favourite show, and I will be catching up on the series in the next while.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=qi&search_type=&aq=-1&oq=
Thank you TRiG, Merry Mithras.
Sancho, fetch my armadillo and my swordfish! Must mount trusty sledge, RC cola in hand and be off to the deadly hideout- the Warren Christmas.
Regarding the question of the most irreligious state, the recently published State by State, A Panoramic Portrait of America (Weiland and Wilsey) includes an appendix of interesting tables of which #12 is Population Claiming No Religion. Here Washington is #1 with 25% nonreligious, and New Hampshire is in 13th place with 17%. Their source is American Religious Identification Survey 2001.
I’m interested to check the Pew Religious Survey suggested by Mr. O’Risal (comment #6).
I suspect the results depend heavily on exactly what questions were asked.
Oh, I didn’t know you were from around here! In retrospect, if makes perfect sense I guess…
As many as 25 percent in the Seattle-Portland areas don’t believe in a god.
Not bad for America. Only 75% of their population is insane.
Are you still open minded?
Are you able to refute the evidence put forth by a fellow biologist with a doctorate from MIT?
http://www.geraldschroeder.com/new.html
I try to stay open to all intelligent and non-defacing input so I look forward to your response. I am still in the data collecting stage on the micro/macro/speciation evolution debate. I am an engineer by training that has been superceeded by a capitalistic MBA :)
A poll to crash about ‘the war on christmas’:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28003315/
The FFRF puts up that exact same sign each year in the State Capital building here in Madison, Wisconsin during Christmas season.
From the link in #48:
Why do I get the feeling that someone is equivocating hard and fast with the various meanings of the word “information?” Information is articulating itself into the form of energy? Say what?
This looks like another dreary “groundbreaking” attempt to play around with words and use physics to demonstrate that cranes are really resting on a single skyhook. By pshaw-ing Fundamentalist religion and accepting evolution, the writer thinks he’s going to avoid looking unscientific. Wrong.
“Every particle, every being, from atom to human, appears to represent a level of information, of wisdom. ”
All that tells me is that the human tendency towards anthropomorphicism of everything still rages on.
Kenny-Boy Schram is a local Andy Rooney wanna-be. A washed up weatherman, if memory serves, who oddly survived the downsizing of the local ABC franchise’s news department.
The local officials seem to have figured out the obvious fix for the eternal Christmas display on public property problem. Everyone gets to put their bit in. How Seattle!
OT I just saw an “Interstate Battery” commercial on Olbermann that was animated hearts floating down from heaven to cartoon characters having bad days and changing their lives. The tag line is something about accepting god’s love. Nothing about Christmas. The Interstate Battery logo is branded on the closing scene. Strange.
You would sound more intelligent if you could keep track of simple facts. Schroeder has a Ph.D. in nuclear physics, not biology. Like many who claim expertise outside their area, he doesn’t really have any.
Schroeder is also an orthodox Jew and freely admits that his viewpoint is religiously derived. He starts with a conclusion, goddidit, and works back.
There is no debate and you are not collecting info or you would know this. You are a creobot lying. Don’t waste our time, find a heretic to burn at the stake or something.
I liked the FRFF’s message until the last sentence. I don’t see why they had to poke people in the eye.
Bert Caddick @53—OT I just saw an “Interstate Battery” commercial on Olbermann that was animated hearts floating down from heaven to cartoon characters having bad days and changing their lives. The tag line is something about accepting god’s love. Nothing about Christmas. The Interstate Battery logo is branded on the closing scene. Strange
Not so strange, long time ago, I read in a news magazine or saw on TV that Interstate Battery has a religous work culture and started each day off with employees saying a morning prayer.
I’ve never forgotten it, and am always reminded of it whenever I see their company logo.
As per the usual, giorgio wants us to be “open-minded” enough to throw away all intellectual standards and to subject ourselves to second-rate woo, all due to the fallacy of the appeal to authority.
So no, I’m not really “open-minded enough” to give up rigorous thought. What a stupid question!
An honest debater would, of course, bring up an argument, not an authority. Generally these people are far too ignorant to do anything but bring up an “authority” and to refer to “arguments” that they don’t understand. That’s their “challenge” of “open-mindedness.”
Meanwhile, they never answer our questions about design, such as my favorite (among many), what design principle or purpose is behind the fact that all vertebrate wings happen to be modifications of their direct ancestors’ forelimbs?
Answer that, I mean with the same level of entailed predictivity as (non-teleological) evolutionary theory does, and I might begin to believe that our troll of many names is capable of open-mindedness. So far he appears only to be the usual lazy, indolent tard (Charlie Wagner, perhaps?) who throws mindless creationist tripe at what he doesn’t understand and that he has never studied open-mindedly and with the proper understanding.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
HA.
Let them try that over on the east side of the state, I dare them.
I live in Seattle, but I grew up on the “dry side.” I’ll tell you from experience that Seattle and Olympia are the only places you can get away with declaring war on Christmas. Try that anywhere else and your sign will get shot up by a disgruntled Mormon.
Hey PZ, if you’re looking for cranky commentators on that, look no further than Knute Berger. That nutbag’s take on the FFrF sign makes Ken Schram’s comments seem positively enlightened.
http://crosscut.com/2008/12/02/mossback/18678/
You’re right, CJ.
For those of you who have never been here, Washington is really two states: Western Washington, with ~40% of the area and 80% of the population, and Eastern Washington, with ~60% of the area and 20% of the population. If it were its own state, Eastern Washington would be the reddest state outside of Utah.
Our politics are continuously held hostage by this rabid minority. They get back four times what they pay in in taxes, and do nothing but bitch about how “their” taxes shouldn’t go to support Welfare Queens™ and latte-sipping liberals in Seattle. (Meanwhile, we get back about 85% of what we pay in, last I heard.)
I would be for throwing them out on their ear, but that would create another red state with another 2 unearned Electoral Votes. Richard A. C. Greene, who ran for Land Commissioner on the Republican ticket in 1968, had the right idea:
He said he was only running to demonstrate how little thought people give to their vote on quite important offices like Land Commissioner, but still: when you’re right, you’re right!
On a vaguely related note, an atheist group in Kentucky is suing over the use of God in Kentucky’s homeland security law.
I have got good news for you
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sunghak, you eeediot. This is a blog.
Bill O’Reilly made this his lead story tonight. Boy, he was pissed. Interesting that throughout the segment neither he nor his agreeing attorney guest made any real argument against the sign other than essentially saying “I don’t like it!!”
Seattle rocks! So does Don Davis, and although I’m not a big Adam Sandler fan, I really like Don’s atheist version of Sandler’s Hanukkah Song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFqSNpK9vm8 Good stuff!
Check out my A-mas Tree!!!
http://acksisofevil.org/images/AmasTree.jpg
Download, expand, print, scissors, stapler
“As many as 25 percent in the Seattle-Portland areas don’t believe in a god.”
We have a long way to go. (Note: I do like the way they put it “in a god” instead of “in God” as it usually is in most of these articles.)
lurkbot, that internal split happens in other “blue states” also — the big cities and coastal areas are very blue, while the interior is very red.
Someone once called Pennsylvania’s interior “Pennsyltucky” for that reason, and this split also happens in Oregon and California.
HOME ALONE: Christmas with Caitlin and Daddy
http://acksisofevil.org//audio/C-D/homealone.mp3
from 1995
I really don’t care about the whole christmas thing. Personally, its just not something to get that worked up over. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, whatever. Just as long as i’m not having people outside my super market with bibles in their hands talking about the real meaning of the holiday, i don’t care.
Rock on for washington! Not sure about where i’m from, Tri cities, but hey i’m still here!
It took a while to figure out how to login, but here is my comment on the “kook”‘s page (some interesting, funny, and saddening comments there):
“What’s really funny is that the day has nothing to do with Jesus – it goes back to the Saturnalia festival. Anyone with any knowledge of Biblical studies knows that Jesus would have had to be born in the Spring or Fall (when Shepherds would have been out with their flocks, definitely not the winter). Christmas was not a holiday celebrated by the Pilgrims, who worked on Christmas, and in some cases outlawed the holiday. The US did not make it a federal holiday until around 1870. Christmas trees did not appear until the late 1800’s either, coming from Germany via Great Britain (Queen Victoria, IIRC).
The FFRF has put up secular statements in several states, and try to show that one does not need religion to celebrate what should be a secular holiday (when the government made it a federal holiday, that makes it a secular, non-religious one by default.
Besides, as everyone knows, the axial tilt is the “reason for the season”!”
@Bert Chadick #53
I’m not sure if he was ever a weatherman, but in the ’80s Ken Schram was a Phil Donahue wannabe with a local public-interest-type show called “Town Meeting”. After that was canceled in the ’90s he was (IIRC) out of work for a while, and eventually ended up being the liberal half of a local radio talk show duo with conservative John Carlson. This was when he invented his cranky persona.
He also started doing his “Schram on the Street” bits on KOMO TV, where he tries to drum up controversy (and negative viewer feedback, which he reads on-air) about some subject, usually by expressing disgust, sarcasm, or some combination of the two. One of his previous targets was public breast feeding (he used disgust on that one).
Part of his shtick is to hand out little bobblehead statues of himself (“Schrammies”) as mocking “awards” to people or groups who displease him in some way. One of the people he sent one to was the director of the Dept. of Corrections. That didn’t end well.
Whenever his bits are shown on the news, the anchors play it up with a kind of “oh boy! Ken Schram sure is gonna get your goat tonight!” type of gibberish. So, yeah, he’s just a harmless pseudo-crank meant for entertainment purposes.
@Lurkbot #60
They appear to have changed it, but during the election, the WA Republican’s logo was a map of WA with an elephant on the east side charging at the west side, its tusk aimed right at Seattle.
Hello? Ken Schram? Ken Ham? Jokes, people… we need jokes.
A poll to crash:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/poll/1,,661-5037101,00.html
Weird. That’s two publicized sitings in less than two weeks of the cryptid “fair-minded Christian.”
“Personally that’s what I love about America [: we can have both groups catered for…]” – Not really true about most of America, is it?
How to Bias A Poll 101: Give the side you want to support one answer and the other side three to choose from thus splitting their vote.
Your concern is noted.
Considering there’s quite a few more groups than just two ….
May I suggest “Happy holidays from [name of atheist organization]” It’s short, to the point, and the words “happy holidays” seem to drive the wingnut crowd into a foaming frenzy.
If you really want to drive the wingnut crowd crazy (not much of a challenge, really), put up a sign that says:
“MERRY X-MAS from [insert atheist organization here]
Oh noes!!!111! They took the Christ out of X-Mas!!!!
Ken Schram is a tool!
Oh, and local Seattle blogger David Goldstein was on Billo’s show last night talking about the Capitol display and the ‘war on Christmas.’ You can see it over on his blog, HorsesAss.org.
I don’t understand why anyone would take offense at an inclusive display; if someone wants to inject personal beliefs into the public square, then the right to answer or rebut or add should be a given. But common sense, not to mention common courtesy, seems to be lacking among many of the ‘believers.’
Newfie, QI is a fantastic show, isn’t it? I’ve only ever seen it on YouTube, but there are loads of clips there.
I grew up in a JW household, so I have no Christmas tradition. It’s just not at all important to me.
TRiG.
Ken Schram makes it his job to piss everyone off. He thinks it’s a public service…
Kel @74, (sort of) done – I only vote once.
(Yes 56% (846 votes) No 43% (650 votes))
scooter @66
I gotta say, that is one handsome xmas tree!
Wow… check out O’Reilly getting his panties in a bunch over the display in Washington:
This Solstice season is shaping up to be one of the BEST!
Last week whilst shopping at the local Long Island Walmart I had the privilege of trampling a hearty young black man, oops sorry, African American. I don’t think it t’was my boots that did him in, nevertheless, my foot on his neck didn’t help.
The Man
Yesterday, I received a phone call from KGW.TV, in Portland OR. Would I agree to an interview regarding the FFRF sign in Olympia? (It was stolen later). I agreed to the interview and was primed to make some positive Atheistic comments. I was pleasantly surprised to be freely allowed to mention that everybody on Earth is called an Atheist by somebody, it just depends on where you are. Christians are called Atheists in Baghdad for example because they don’t believe that Allah is God. It was pretty obvious that the interviewer had never thought of that point. We then went into the idea that Christians are 99.9% Atheists due to the fact that they deny all gods other than their own. Again, the host had never considered that point either. I felt that he was sympathetic to our opinions just had not given them much thought. We concluded with my comments on freedom of speech. All in all a very favorable interview on Portland’s # 1 news program.