Fellow travelers, we all know this feeling of stepping off a plane into a strange city and following the signs to baggage/transportation, trying to get our bearings and find our way through these sometimes labyrinthine airports to just get out of these unattractive hubs — the whole thing with air travel nowadays is that you have to do it, and while you’re doing it, all you want to do is escape from it. I know that feeling well lately.
Well, I have arrived in Philadelphia, and it was different. I lived here from 1993-2000, and I stepped off the plane and knew exactly where I was and what I had to do: I strolled unerringly to the train terminal, got on board and paid my fare (which had gone up $2 since I was last here), and rolled off to my destination. It was great. I’ve missed the familiar litany of stations called out by the porter as you travel through the city, and the ease of just taking one of those big bench seats and relaxing while traveling.
I got off at the 30th Street Station, had to go say hello to the big guy with the wings (Old train stations are built like temples, have you ever noticed? Vast spaces with ceilings lofted far above you, and with fabulous winged art deco icons to get you in the right mood), and then knew exactly what I had to do to get to my hotel — take the Market-Frankford line to University City. It was so liberating to stand in that cathedral of transport and realize that I could easily go anywhere. I could have gone down those stairs and taken a train to Trenton and New York, no sweat, and it would have been a pleasant, stress-free rockin’ ride. Anywhere. I was tempted.
Compare the great Eastern urban transit options to our train station in Morris, Minnesota—a sad and shabby relic, abandoned. We’ve got the wide horizons, but there’s a pinched feeling as well, that there is no way out. Cars have closed us off more than they’ve opened us up, I think. Those horizons become a void rather than a destination. They turn us inward rather than making us cosmopolitan.
Small town America is a fine place to live, but man, I want to see more connectedness than the isolation we’ve got now. Places like Europe and the East coast always seem to have more openness — and in large part it’s due to the fact that you can go anywhere.
I would suggest a convertible.
I found this while I was looking at your train station video.
Maybe you’ve seen it…
Is that YOU at 1:18?
I love train travel. It’s the only way to see a place as you travel through it. Aeroplanes and motorcars are barbaric contraptions.
I think your generalisations about European openness are off the mark though. There is plenty of insularity to be found once you get away from the big cities and the university towns.
I’ve had the same sort of thoughts, even though I’ve lived in Florida all my life and never really experienced quality public transportation.
I mean, sure we’ve got Amtrak – twice a day, always late, and the only station nearby is old and rundown. The only reason I’ve been there is because someone hid a geocache there! Our bus service is coming along, but the places that have great systems are localized. When I lived in Gainesville, I could go anywhere in town quickly, reliably, and cheaply. Heading home, though, required a two hour drive, through (beautiful) old Florida and miles of forest. Certainly an isolating trip!
Anyway, I agree – we need more, better, and easier public transportation. It’s good for the planet and the soul =)
Your train station in Morris is the mirror image of one in West Virginia that some volunteer workers and I waited at after helping repaint houses damaged by floods. The town we were in had been a mining town and those mines, now abandoned, had the bad habit of swelling up with water and flooding the entire community’s homes. Most of that town was unemployed and on main street nearly all the shops were closed, washed out, and rotted from the flood waters.
This is all to say that Morris sounds extremely depressing to me, if I am to judge it by it’s train station.
I don’t know, we traveled by auto from northwestern Minnesota a fair bit. Trouble is, it generally is a long trip to anywhere.
I think the problem is that there’s nowhere much to go in that area, and not the limitations of cars. My Dad and his partner had a plane for a few years, and that really opened up the world. The coasts were still fairly long trips in a small plane, but the middle of the country was opened up.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
It’s a bit hit and miss in the UK here too. Though I live in the south which has excellent train services – I can get to London, Scotland, France, all very easily; other parts of the UK aren’t so lucky. When I used to live in Edinburgh the trains around Scotland weren’t great. But we had absolutely amazingly cheap buses that travelled around Scotland nearly 24 hours a day. So it is a bit hit and miss but I think in general European public transport is much better than the American version. Although America is much bigger, which probably makes it tricky.
I think I was kind of awed by 30th St. Station when I was a kid. It’s big and echoey and busy and you feel like you’re really going somewhere.
Have a cheesesteak for me.
This seems like a perfect time to get out my old copy of
“Zen And the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”
http://virtualschool.edu/mon/Quality/PirsigZen/
“You see things vacationing on a motorcycle in a way that is completely different from any other. In a car you’re always in a compartment, and because you’re used to it you don’t realize that through that car window everything you see is just more TV. You’re a passive observer and it is all moving by you boringly in a frame.
On a cycle the frame is gone. You’re completely in contact with it all. You’re in the scene, not just watching it anymore, and the sense of presence is overwhelming. That concrete whizzing by five inches below your foot is the real thing, the same stuff you walk on, it’s right there, so blurred you can’t focus on it, yet you can put your foot down and touch it anytime, and the whole thing, the whole experience, is never removed from immediate consciousness.”
Oh, to be young again…
Welcome to Philly!
You hit the nail on the head PZ – I’m an ex-pat Brit exiled to the Upper Mid-West. Don’t get me wrong I like the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul ,but they are gilded cages. Go 10 miles from the beltway interstate of I494/694 things get crazy – faintly in the distance you can hear those dueling banjos. It’s worse the further south and east you go – soon it’s the flinty eyed types who tell you how their great grand-pappy fought in the War of Southern Liberation and even the Unitarians get you to handle poisonous snakes as a test of you faith.
You’re spot on, PZ. We are all trapped in our isolated cells–cars, offices, cubicles–yearning for some sort of connection with our fellow humans, yet finding that the only thing we have in common anymore is television shows. Public space has been annihilated.
Agreed. We sorely need mass transit here in Minneapolis.
At the same time, I gotta tell you how much it rejuvenates the mind to go out into the woods a few days and get away from all the people. After a successful deer season I am much happier!
I hope you enjoyed your four block ride. You then probably had to walk two or three blocks to your hotel. Next time, take the LUCY (Loop through University CitY) bus. (You did check out their website, right?) For what it’s worth, the 30 bus connects the station with University City also.
I commuted through 30th Street Station for years. I eventually discovered a side area with a massive frieze displaying the “Spirit of Transportation”, and only because one day I very logically and very rapidly deduced there must be a shortcut to the north side men’s room through that side area. Boy, was I flabbergasted, but art and I had a happy ending.
On the other hand, Thomas Eakins’ The Agnew Clinic is apparently no longer on campus. I recall way back when I had cause to frequently use the Penn biomedical library, and for some reason one day had further cause to take a detour through the campus-members only wing of that building, and after I went down one hallway, there it was. I had no idea. Oh, right, I flashed, that wide open space was probably the very site in the painting.
Years later I learned Jefferson Medical School had The Gross Clinic, when their attempt to sell it out-of-town caused a ruckus.
Hello to you all,
I’m too lazy to maintain a blog, but I want to share some of my best physics-links with you on my FAST website:
http://www.physicsworks.ca
I welcome your comments and looking forward to add way more valuable url’s.
Thanks
Oh, I just remembered, there is now a “University City” station for some of the regional rail locals, including the airport line. It stops just south of Franklin Field, and might even be next door to your hotel.
I lived in Philly for four years (until 2005). It was always a pleasure to go to 30th Street Station in order to catch the train to D.C. While reading the train time tables and marveling at the sights and the sounds of that building, I had the same feelings that you describe here. And I always liked how the trains had romantic names like the “Silver Meteor” or the “California Zephyr”.
It’s really frustrating to see Congress (cough… John McCain… cough) constantly try to starve Amtrak out of business.
I adore 30th Street Station. Did you notice the makeover that the suburban rail section has undergone since the addition of the Cirrus Tower?
The angel statue is homoerotic and sexy. It a great welcome home greeting.
I found it funny and shocking that someone was writing a blog entry about SEPTA.
Matt A
Heavily off-topic, but PZ, you’ve got to read this Kathleen Parker op-ed from yesterday’s Washington Post.
Parker has made a career as a consistent right-wing loon, but ever since she was one of the first wingnuts to notice publicly that Empress Palin had no (intellectual) clothes, she’s gone further and further off the reservation. Today’s WaPo op-ed is entitled “Giving Up on God,” and Parker is in favor of the idea that that title denotes.
The essay is a blistering broadside at the Religious Right and the damage it has done to the Republican Party. It’s even a tiny bit sympathetic to “secularists” and the “nonreligious”–and it pretty much demands that the RR utterly shut up about God.
Whoa!
Re: #20:
Make that “a positive blog entry about SEPTA.”
I’m going to crawl back in my hole now. Ugh..
Matt A
Yeah my only issue is that navigating to boston by way of a plan to providence was the most annoying thing ever. The people who sold me my bus tickets were very rude and unhelpful as if i should have known what to do. they told me where to go and how it all worked but the whole time they gave as little info as possible while speaking in a really condescending tone like i should know better.
I love the northeast dont get me wrong, and the big cities and all the conveniences/diversity/intelligence of that, but i do wish we could adopt some of the southern hospitality i find when i visit my brother in tennessee.
Oh i also want a bullet train from dc to boston
Can’t wait to see you tonight, PZ!
If you have the time, there’s no need to fly.
Drive to St. Cloud (or St. Paul for better
train times and a first-class waiting area
if you have a sleeper ticket).
05:14 – depart St. Cloud on the Empire Builder
07:50 – depart St. Paul
15:55 – arrive Chicago
19:05 – depart Chicago on the Capitol Limited
13:30 next day – arrive Washington
15:02 – depart Washington on Regional train 148
16:55 – arrive Philadelphia
You can also go through New York City, or even take
a direct train from Chicago to Philadelphia three
days per week; but you’d arrive much later. The
westbound trip makes more sense through New York.
13:58 – depart Philadelphia on Regional train 176
15:18 – arrive New York
15:45 – depart New York on the Lake Shore Limited
09:45 next day – arrive Chicago
14:15 – depart Chicago on the Empire Builder
10:31 – arrive St. Paul
00:40 – arrive St. Cloud
With a same-day sleeper ticket, either departing
or arriving, you can use a first-class lounge called
the “Club Acela” at Philadelphia’s 30th Street Station,
Washington Union Station, and New York Penn Station;
and you can use the “Metropolitan Lounge” at Chicago
Union Station. There’s also an unnamed and unstaffed
first-class waiting area at St. Paul’s Midway station.
There is a level of activity that helps with that feeling of connectedness of “I could go anywhere” that comes in entering one of the great train stations. I live in L.A. where the transportation systems are almost completely auto base and spread out over the land of mostly one and two story buildings as far as the eye can see. The only real connectedness most feel is electronic. I think it is a testament to that earlier age that they looked to design in their buildings to express that feeling of going any where. The train travel options here are shall we say limited but Union Station down town does give you that same feeling being able to go anywhere. The freeways only make you feel trapped and wanting to flee out of the city to the end of the road. Air ports started out at one time to try to express that sense of free movement but business costs “people moving” , auto traffic, vast parking lots, huge roads and security theater decisions have stifled it.
We are threatening to become tawdry and mundane world in vision.
So sad to see the abandoned train station in Morris; a sad sight in any city or town that once had regular train service through vibrant stations. I love trains and try to get on one at least once a year to a distant city, not including commuter trains. I love Philadelphia and have been there many times, some stays extending for at least two weeks. A great city, and one served by great train service from the 30th street station and the Reading Terminal. I have rode on the complete SEPTA lines, city and commuter lines to those nice suburbs. Philadelphis is one of a few cities that you can take a train from the airport to downtown, a very convenient alternative to taxis and driving. And great museums of Art and Science to hold one’s interests, a great library and many other public interests for the city dweller. One of my favorites is the American Philosophical Society, with many well known members of science represented. Good restaurants, great communications in all fields and amenties to make it a great american city. And graced with the likes of Janet Browne and past greats of science. Regards and honors to the great city of Philadelphia!
Maybe that’s something Americans could start thinking about for these hard times, a real high speed rail infrastructure project to link the major cities from the east coast…
Of course, forget private enterprise, they won’t do it, but that should be part of this new new deal that Obama should launch.
Just an idea to create jobs, increase long term productivity and save energy.
I grew up in Philly and commuted via SEPTA to Penn, my alma mater, every summer I was in college. It is pleasant to go back now and see how much nicer 30th Street Station looks today than in the mid-late 80s.
I realized that 30th Street pales, however, in comparison to Union Station in Washington DC, which I just passed through for the first time yesterday when I took Amtrak (also a first) down to Washington from Metropark in NJ for a technical conference at the US Naval Observatory. Washington Station looks even more like a cathedral, more vaulted ceiling and gilded inlay everywhere! I *adore* wasted space! And it has a really nice food court on the lower level, better than 30th St (though that is still much better now than when I was in college.) And what a pleasure to ride Amtrak! Much more legroom than on planes, tray tables that give you enough space to really open your laptop, and electric outlets at each seat to plug them into! Plus bathrooms you don’t have to fold your arms up in, and a snack bar where you can get up and get a drink or food when you want (and not have to navigate around those annoying aisle-blocking beverage carts)! I wish I traveled in the NE corridor more often!
Also I will add, that being physically on the grounds of the USNO, I couldn’t resist flipping the bird in the general direction of Chateau Cheney up close and personal, after first getting some photos taken standing next to the Master Clock!
That is so true!! It’s one of the main reasons why I moved to Europe. You would expect that having a car would be the ultimate freedom, but really, it was a revelation to me to when I discovered the freedom of being able to go anywhere by train!
I’ve written about this extensively on my blog; probably my best article about it is here: Living downtown and car-free!!!
I generally don’t like going places, particularly because I don’t like spending time in transit. Traffic jams make me want to go back home and never leave. This makes visiting my parents (2 hours away) or old friends in New Orleans (1 hour away) very difficult for me. The one exception is big adventurous vacations to other states.
Would I be more likely to make such visits if I could hop on a train? Possibly. It would certainly be an interesting alternative to having to drive.
PZ, I can sympathize. Living here in southern Italy, the opportunities presented by rail are endless. Why, I’m only 90 minutes away from Rome, and a few hours further would take me into an entirely different country.
But even European rail can’t compare to the mass transit system in Japan. That was amazing.
Oh, of course here in Naples, there’s the “spice” added by concern over whether or not your car will still be in the station parking lot when you get back. . .
I thought you’d lived in Minnesota forever …
Sadly, our railroads are falling apart and the shiny new trains that were supposed to have run on them three years ago are still stuck at the factory in Italy. A travesty. And of course the state can’t get out of the contract.
Still – I like going by train. I’m almost glad I’m not at uni anymore – nowhere to go: no need to fly.
Not that I don’t enjoy flying, too, but I hate airports. If Obama does something those ridiculous ‘rules’ whose only purpose is to make us scaaaaaaared then he’s done more than enough that he can coast through the rest of his precidency in my opinion.
Sorry for an OT post, but check out this liveblog from Steve Schafersman, who is covering today’s public hearing on the Texas science standards. My favorite picture so far: Barney the Dinosaur with a sign reading “Hey Don McLeroy: How old am I? 4,000 or 64,000,000?”
I noticed that while I was in Ireland. I had no car, but I never felt like I was stuck in one place, because Bus Eireann is so absolutely brilliant. I took a day trip to Dublin at one point, from Limerick, just hopped on a bus. Did the same with Carrigaline and Crosshaven.
Their air’s the same way with RyanAir, though it is a bit sketchy! :p
That station in the video looks not entirely unlike the one in my mother’s home town. Which is in rural northern Germany.
That’s why I want to remain in Europe, because of the excellent public transportation infrastructure…and because of nationalized medicine…and because religion is largely kept out of the public tax-paying sphere…and because there are such great opportunities to learn many different languages…and because there is a strong push towards environmentalism…geesh, no wonder I adore living here (we won’t even get into the many fantastic cuisines and many cultural traditions/aspects)!
America still seems to be the one for economic/educational opportunities though. Since I have completed enough formal education for my satisfaction, and I have my own business, however, those advantages do not have much an edge for me.
I think since you’re already on the East Coast, you should just hop on an Amtrak and head up to Boston. The people up here could use some Pharyngulation!
That you think Irish public transport is not a total disaster speaks volumes about what you must be used to. I live 70km north of Stockholm and can reliably get from my apartment in the boonies to Stockholm Central in exactly one hour because the buses and trains actually do this really weird thing, entirely unheard of in Dublin, called “arriving on time”. In Dublin, OTOH, I lived in the centre of the city and was much faster cycling to my parents’ house (~15km), in spite of there being a door-to-door bus route, because the timetable was fiction, traffic was terrible, and the arrival time of buses a complete crap-shoot.
Regular reliable public transport is absolutely fantastic and it makes an enormous difference to one’s quality of life. If someone had said that to me 3 years ago, before I moved here and actually experienced it, I would’ve laughed in their face.
America still seems to be the one for economic/educational opportunities though.
EXACTLY! When a country decides to move towards a socialist nanny state, it squeezes business harder – stifling entrepreneurship and the flow of the market, and therefore cutting off economic opportunity.
Imagine you have country A and country B, which are neighbours. They have good relations with one another, and open borders, so it’s simple to migrate from one to the other.
Now imagine country A introduces a comprehensive system of socialised healthcare, free higher education, generous social security benefits, free prescriptions, etc. To achieve this, it introduces a progressive tax system, squeezing the wealthy harder, and imposes high corporation tax rates. It also passes large amounts of legislation to protect workers’ welfare, and promotes strong trade unions, pushing up the cost of labour.
Country B, in contrast, maintains low tax rates, a free market economy, and minimal government intervention.
If you’re a talented entrepreneur eager to start a business, where would you be more likely to set up? Considering that in Country B you will pay lower taxes, have lower labour costs and have capital more easily available, you’re much more likely to set up in Country B. And, of course, you’ll need people to work in your business – so you’ll likely poach skilled workers, who’ve benefited from Country A’s free education, to work for your business in Country B. So the wealth and jobs flow into Country B.
In contrast, if you’re someone who relies on the state for your living – whether a public employee, student, or welfare recipient – you’re likely to move to Country A, where you can receive more from the state.
What is the obvious outcome? Country A will be full of students, retired people, ill people, welfare claimants, and families with lots of children – the people who benefit from generous state allowances for welfare, health and education. As the children grow up and the students graduate, of course, they’ll largely move to Country B, where there are more jobs and they can earn a better living. In contrast, the productive people – entrepreneurs, skilled workers – will be living in Country B, where there are lots of jobs and salaries for the taking.
Tell me, which country is going to do better economically in the long run? And which is going to be, in the long run, unsustainable?
I thought we were through with the libertarian tripe. You guys need to learn how to turn it off.
Walton – except all the very best and brightest will want to stay in country A: the best researchers will want to stay there because there will be a better educated pool of students and better university facilities since in country B only the rich can afford higher education. The cultural benefits of country A will also be better so certainly all the creative people will live there and the easy transportation will make living in A much more pleasant. Most of the corporate CEOs will try to run their minimum wage sweatshops in B but maintain the palatial residence villas in A.
Try living in Boise, 300 miles from the nearest comparably-sized city. And the trains don’t come through here anymore, either. Our train station is kept up well since it’s a local landmark, but Amtrak shut down the SLC-Portland run in the ’90s. I love road-tripping, and even though there really is a lot to see in Idaho, it’s still something of a drag to realize that you have to be in the car for a day or more to really go anywhere else. I had to break my boycott of the airlines last year (after they instituted the plastic bag rule, I had to fart in their general direction) to go to San Jose, because otherwise, I would have spent a good three days total in the car to be there for just under two days.
Zen & The Art:
“On a cycle the frame is gone. You’re completely in contact with it all. ”
Now just imagine doing it without a big ungodly loud engine under your ass! Pedal power!
*waits for the walking snob to show up*
Walton, your little thought experiment ignores so many variables. It’s almost as if you have to cheat to get your preferred outcome to be the result.
…the best researchers will want to stay there because there will be a better educated pool of students and better university facilities since in country B only the rich can afford higher education.
But those researchers working in the private sector, for commercial ends, will likely move to country B, where there are more jobs and higher salaries in the private sector.
You’re right, of course, that academics and public-sector researchers will stay in country A, and that country A will expend more money on government-funded research and pure scientific advancement. Which will be a great expense to country A’s taxpayers; and once it produces useful results, it will promptly be used by the private entrepreneurs and engineers of country B for practical commercial ends. See the point I’m making here?
A couple years ago I took the Empire Builder (what an inspiring name) from St Paul out to Glacier and enjoyed every minute of it. The worst part was having to drive to St Paul to get to the Amtrak.
Oh my god. What is with some of the libertarians here? Any chance they get they derail a thread for the sake of their freaking politics. Sometimes I think they are worse than the religious trolls.
Re #40, #45
Paging Nick Gotts. Paging Nick Gotts.
Your patient has escaped again.
@Walton: Seriously, get your own blog. Over-long comments are very annoying.
>
> … I took the Empire Builder
> (what an inspiring name) …
>
It was the nickname of James J. Hill,
the nineteenth-century robber baron
who built the Great Northern Railway.
A train named the Empire Builder has
been run on mostly the same route by the
Great Northern, Burlington Northern,
and Amtrak continually since June 11, 1929.
…
Don’t get me started. 8-)
The point you seem to be making is that country B’s entrepreneurs feel a sense of entitlement with respect to the R&D from country A, even though they would not fund it themselves. Where’s that rock-ribbed self-reliance you glibertarians are always yammering about?
(Old train stations are built like temples, have you ever noticed? Vast spaces with ceilings lofted far above you, and with fabulous winged art deco icons to get you in the right mood),
The destruction of the original Penn Station in NYC is widely seen as a disaster of monumental (sorry!) proportions. It was one of the major catalysts of the landmarks preservation movement, along with Robert Moses’ insane proposal to run superhighways across Manhattan at 125th, 42nd, and 14th Streets.
Famed art historian Vincent Scully of Yale University wrote of this barbaric demolition, “One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat.”
As far as the car goes, it provides the illusion of freedom (much like Libertarianism does)… while tying you inextricably to multinational corporations and autocratic regimes.
It’s the bicycle that truly represents freedom, transportation-wise.
I’m planning to do a trip around the states by rail in the second half of next year, and am thoroughly looking forward to it. Everything I’ve read online has made me more excited (apart from Amtrak’s tendency to be late, but I’m generally pretty patient, so it doesn’t worry me a great deal).
Walton,
Gee, it’s as simple as that Walton, the jobs will “flow” into country B.
Because of course, the only ones who decide in your simplistic reasoning are the entrepreneurs.
The job seekers, where would they rather work ? In country A which offers a comprehensive system of socialised healthcare, free higher education, generous social security benefits, free prescriptions, etc, or in country B ?
With your line of reasoning, the best system is the one which is best for the entrepreneur, ie where labour costs are the cheapest. And that’s it. Perfect. Simple. Nice society. Clean. Easy.
Don’t you think it’s time to grow up a bit Walton ?
You’re so naïve, it’s unbelievable !
PZ,
Feel free to grab a train to NY. We’ll leave a light on. In fact, I’ll bet we could muster up a fair number of people willing to buy you a drink.
ahhh… Switzerland! We have panoramic train lines that twist through the mountains, to the tourist’s delight. I’ve been crossing the Alps twice every other week-end, as a student, getting back from Zurich to my Southern hometown. I still haven’t tired of the view.
Now I still live in Zurich, where, some say (some of us at least:-), there’s the best urban public transport system. What would you want a car for?
—
ah, yeah: trains are quite expensive though, especially for foreigners who don’t get salaries in Swiss francs and don’t really want a season-ticket.
kelw @53,
I’m hoping to take my sisters on a train trip in the spring. Any suggestions for North By Northwest style travel?
Welcome to Philadelphia, PZ!
Fucking Walton. Every god damn thread turns into a libertarian wankfest.
Matt Heath, a couple of weeks ago I asked the same thing. The reply, in essence was the cost and that there is more traffic here.
It is one thing when the topic shifts, it happens. But having this kid constantly try (and sometime succeed) to hijack threads is as annoying as his recent conversion to libertarianism.
Any suggestions for North By Northwest style travel?
Randy, do you really want to be chased in an open field by a biplane?
Which has a track priority lower than garbage.
No that’s not snark; that’s the literal truth. If a train full of garbage – or, for that matter, anything not passengers – has an unexpected need to use piece of track amtrack is scheduled for, amtrack loses.
Rev. BigDumbChimp, Kot, OM:
Fundamentalists have to proselytize. They can’t help themselves.
The most annoying, I think, is that the countless number of arguments so far, maybe a few hundred by empty number of participants, seem to have been without any effect on him, like pissing in a violin.
He’s done it again? Fucking hell. Isn’t there a Ron Paul forum where he can post?
Seriously. I can point to a number of discussions here where afterward I was able to say I learned something, or on one occasion, that I was almost completely wrong. The libertarian trolls, just like the christian trolls, never do that because they are committed to a “truth” that’s far greater than any fact.
I certainly consider Vin Scully an artist–used to catch every Dodger game on the radio when I lived in LA–but I had no idea he was affiliated with Yale.
what?
Longtime Lurker @61,
Well, not that so much as shacking up with Eva Marie Saint.
Walton: If what Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker says is true, then note:
a) The cost of a blog at blogger or wordpress.com is the same as the cost of commenting here (free).
b) people who free-ride, such as leeching off someone else’s traffic to get themselves heard are exactly why (at least the näive version you push of) libertarianism fails. Do you really want to discredit libertarianism?
“Now just imagine doing it without a big ungodly loud engine under your ass!”
That’s the best part of it.
Clearly, you’ve never had 1200cc Harley “shovelhead” between your legs!
It’s almost better than coming…
Thanx, PZ :D It brings to mind such fond memories of living in Philadelphia. I didn’t have much money, so I couldn’t travel as much as I’d wanted to. But I remember those rock-steady regional-rail cars, and I remember the Market-Frankford subway-elevated trains. And I remember going by Amtrak to DC for day trips, mostly to visit the National Air and Space Museum.
Ithaca, NY wasn’t that great — the closest Amtrak station is in Syracuse, and I never bothered to try that, preferring to go by Greyhound to Philly.
The more urban parts of the Bay Area are nice, especially San Francisco, though farther out, it’s lots and lots of suburban sprawl. But at least it has BART, a nice regional urban-rail system, and a nice light-rail system in SF (not just cable cars there!). I also remember going to Sacramento on Amtrak California’s Capitol trains.
I now live in a small town in Oregon, and I’ve gone by train to and from Portland and Seattle — nice ride. And I’ve gone to the Bay Area on Amtrak’s Coast Starlight trains. It’s rather slow going through the California-Oregon mountains, but when going north, I get magnificent views of them (northward: daytime, southward: nighttime).
–
Minneapolis now has a light-rail line going from downtown to its airport, and there’s one being planned from downtown there to downtown St. Paul. Minneapolis is also getting a northward commuter-rail line, the Northstar, which should start next year.
As to Morris, some railroad lines still run through there, but I don’t know how active they are.
Welcome Back to Philly PZ!!!! Hope to see you in a bar this week!!!
Well, not that so much as shacking up with Eva Marie Saint.
You know, Randy, she’s still around, so maybe you could make it happen… Jeffrey Hayden may be pissed, though.
St. Pancras, London.
From here you can go anywhere in mainland Europe by rail.
Eurostar at St Pancras Jan 2008
That lovely 243 ft span was designed by William Henry Barlow Rowland Mason Ordish in the 1860s.
I loved my old bike. I had a ’66 BMW R69S (600cc) that I rode everywhere. Of course, that’s when I was young and dumb. Now that I’m old and dumb, I prefer my car. Among other things, it’s weatherproof and has a working heater.
“I generally don’t like going places, particularly because I don’t like spending time in transit.”
I have felt this way more and more, but I think it was fueled a LOT by the fact that my last job involved a 2-hour commute (each way). I dealt with it for 4 years and am glad that chapter of my life is closed (it would have been different, I am sure, had the job not been a dreadful one, to boot).
And as far as I’m concerned trains became much less fun once cell phones became so #)*QWE#!%)*#%!@!@)( common. I have an iPod now, but I think it stinks that I essentially HAVE TO use it if I want to be able to concentrate on anything. But I’ve been ranting about that for years, so I won’t go on. Really. I promise.
kelw @ #53 I did that a little over a year ago – used a month long railpass to hit a bunch of Fark parties. Found the train to be far more civilized than a plane. Couple of tips:
1) Avoid the dining car. I got spoiled on my canadian leg (good food, reasonable prices) and tried the Amtrak fare based off of that (more expensive, and ravioli shouldn’t crunch). Don’t be like me. Pack some munchies.
2) You already mentioned it, but be sure to pad the time tables so you don’t have to make any short switchovers. Usually I was less than an hour late, but the trip through Alabama ended up over three hours late.
3) If you’re using a railpass which requires you to book a leg through Canada, the trip over the Rockies is gorgeous, and try the house stout at the Jasper Brewing Co.
llewelly @ #62 Frickin’ Canadians one-upped us again – last round of contracts they got passenger service priority over freight.
Sad and forlorn as your station is, be glad it’s still standing. The city of College Station, Texas (named for its station, ironically) was torn down some time ago. AmTrak passenger trains still go through but they don’t stop anymore there.
I loved living in Tuebingen, Germany where I could step out from the front door of my dorm, walk down to the bus station, ride down to the train station, get to Frankfurt by way of Stuttgart, and from there to Berlin, and from Berlin Bahnhof Zoo go via S-bahn/U-bahn and wind up standing on the front lawn of the Reichstag, never once having to use a car. That was pretty friggin’ cool. Of course, Germany has its backwater areas, too, for which car (or bus, if you’re lucky) is the only way to get there.
Where I currently live, in Denton, Texas, I am eagerly waiting for the DART system to be built up and finally reach downtown Denton. I looked at the planning maps, and the new station, once it’s built, will be within easy walking distance of my apartment. Which means easy access to Dallas without having to drive, which is a good thing.
It’ll be really great once the lines get built out to DFW airport as well.
Hyperindividualistic car culture is really one of America’s worst practices and I am hopefully it is a way of life that changing circumstances will eventually force us to give up on, and it will go back to being what it was–a luxury for the rich. I hope that an Obama administration will include rebuilding the national rail infrastructure part of his platform. But even if he doesn’t, I’m hopeful regional systems will be re-built and then patched back together with a re-emerging national rail net. Mass rail will have to take over once the airlines completely collapse, which they have been teetering on the edge of doing for some time now.
Randy @57,
I have no idea, I’m in Australia and have yet to even visit the US, so everything I’ve read about rail travel in the states is via googling. I bought a travel guide (http://www.usa-by-rail.com/), but I haven’t received it yet.
I used to take the Paoli Local out of downtown commuting from work, just a few stops.
My problem was falling asleep and waking up in Lancaster.
That’s a twilight zone experience, waking up on a train, looking out the window and seeing horse and buggies trotting by.
I still remember my 3rd grade excursion from Minneapolis to St. Paul and back. Now, both depots have been turned into hotels/shopping malls and the depot is in an out-of-the-way place in St. Paul.
Surburban conservatives poo-poohed the light rail when it was constructed in Minneapolis. Now, it seems, all areas of the city want a rail line to go through.
I’ve been to Philadelphia several times, and enjoyed it every single time. Only a couple days per visit, but W.U. used to live there so “we” knew what to do to enjoy ourselves. Together we make one masterly traveler. For example, I was the one who knew how to get around in Amsterdam.
Once we stayed in a BnB (sold off the month after the second time we stayed there, alas) right near a rare beer store* that sold in less than case quantities: make your own six pack!
*The store was rare, as far as I can make out PA-wise, and (I guess) some of the beer too; quite the excellent place. I wish I remembered what it was called. The BnB was something like “1716” – its name and its address. Near Rittenhouse Square if I recall correctly.
You might be singing a different tune had you been forced to make use of my hometown airport, Boston Logan, always a hellhole and persistently worsening.
Luckily, no one with half his wits about him passing through the area needs to go there, as Manchester (N.H.) now takes care of virtually everything.
Ugh.
Rey Fox #43 *waits for the walking snob to show up*
I lived in Boise for a year (out near Camel’s Back Park), and I didnt’ have a car, just a bicycle. But even more often, heh heh — I walked!
With a moniker like RamblinDude, I would expect you to do a lot of walking.
“Those horizons become a void rather than a destination. They turn us inward rather than making us cosmopolitan.”
I often feel this when visiting the old cornfield communities in Indiana. Time slows down because there is little reason to be in a hurry about anything, no reason to change anything, no reason for the people to embrace anything out of the usual. The energy of the place isn’t bad; it just isn’t creative or exploratory. It usually makes me feel very antsy, and I end up feeling drained.
But (speaking of walking), I LOVE NEW YORK! I’ve visited the city a few times and instead of feeling all closed-in and trapped, I always spend all day long walking for miles all over the city – and never seem to get tired!
With a moniker like RamblinDude, I would expect you to do a lot of walking.
You got that right! : )
Walton, I think I’ve guessed your countries! Country A is Canada and Country B is the USA. Did I guess right?
Sorry to hear so many people don’t like to fly. It always amazes me when people get on an airplane, pull down the window shade and watch the–usually idiotic–video. Just outside the window is a beautiful view. Check out the books, such as Science from your Airplane Window. Experience an overall look at geology. It’s much safer than driving, and saves money as well as lots of time. Airplane tickets are still far cheaper than driving your car. And if you are lamenting the loss of luxurious service, it’s the natural byproduct of deregulation. Adjusted for inflation, flying is far cheaper than it was just a few decades ago. If you want to be pampered, buy a first class ticket.
An aside: is all the profanity really necessary? All it indicates is that you are so angry that you can no longer be coherent. And it seems rude and obnoxious whether I agree with your viewpoint or not.
Posted by: Carol M. | November 19, 2008 7:54 PM
An aside: is all the profanity really necessary? All it indicates is that you are so angry that you can no longer be coherent. And it seems rude and obnoxious whether I agree with your viewpoint or not.
In this thread, so far only one person swore and then was quoted a couple of times. But I bet that some people are going to start cussing in order to laugh at you.
Also, I want to know how you know that when a person cusses that the person is angry? Does the use of those naughty words give you a direct insight into that person’s mood?
But I do feel safe in stating this, I suspect you are a rather silly person who is easily offended.
Night time on The City of New Orleans
Changing cars in Memphis, Tennessee
Halfway home, we’ll be there by morning
Through the Mississippi darkness, rolling down to the sea
But all the towns and people seem
To fade into a bad dream
And the steel rail still ain’t heard the news
The conductor sings his songs again
“The passengers will please refrain…”
This train’s got the disappearing railroad blues
Good night, America, how are you?
I said, don’t you know me? I’m your native son
I’m the train they call The City of New Orleans
I’ll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done
I love Philly.
Fuck yeah!
Aw, boohoohoo. Who the hell are you?
And it begins!
Profanity is not necessary but fun. And it doesn’t indicate anger, it indicates swearing. It’s like saying “are internet abbreviations really necessary? All they indicate is that you are so poor with words that you can no longer be taken seriously”. There’s a time and place for everything, and surely there should be distinguishable characteristics between casual swearing and swearing out of anger.
*State in deep Vorlonesque voice…..
welcome to our fair city!
unfortunately i cant make it to any of your events (i need to get a job closer to home), but at least i am now aware of this drinking skeptically thing which is only a few blocks away from home. have fun at tattoed mom’s!
Pathetic as the Morris train station is, the St. Louis is worse. And judging by the pictures, the current station is an improvement over the one that was in place when I went to meet a friend from college (Bryn Mawr), in 1984. Scroll down for pictures of that one.
Union station which is one of those temple like structures you described has been turned into a shopping mall.
>
> Pathetic as the Morris train station is,
> the St. Louis is worse.
>
Not any more. Amtrak moved into our new “Gateway Transportation Center”, which serves both Amtrak and Greyhound, earlier this week. The “grand opening ceremony”, whatever that turns out to be, will begin at 10:45am on Friday. I work just a five-minute walk from there, so I plan to take a long lunch. 8-)
–Bill in St. Louis
I had seen photos of that pieta statue and admired it, but I did not know it was in the Philadelphia train station.
A sad thing about being an atheist is knowing that there are no strong, beautiful angels to protect our fallen soldiers.
But the poetry is lovely.
Since I am really tired and have a cold, I will ignorantly comment without reading the entire thread. @62: compared to the ViaRail train service in Canada, AMTRAK SUCKS SO MUCH YOU CAN’T EVEN IMAGINE IT. I took the train from Toronto to NYC once. The trip is *supposed* to take 14 hours or so, but we were delayed at the border where the US border guards ejected some Buddhist monks from the train – seriously, then stopped at *every* podunk station between the border and Manhattan. Oh, and the train was delayed by two and a half hours, which I only found out when the train got to ALBANY at around the time that it was supposed to be in NYC. And the Amtrak staff are really rude, and look unsatisfied with their lot in life.
Oh, and Carol? I’m with SC.
It’s usually not wise to make your first post in an Internet forum a complaint about the tone of the community. In fact, it’s really impolite, like going to your neighbour’s open house and criticizing the drapes. So shut the fuck up.
Reading over my comment, I realize I didn’t actually say what was so good about Via. The system here is pretty skeletal across Canada, but it serves south and central Ontario and Quebec quite well, and the staff are generally polite and helpful. I guess that’s because it’s a cushy government job and all of them have to speak both English and French, so they tend to be fairly well educated. Also they give you %50 off your next fare if the train is delayed for more than two hours. And they run an intelligent combination of express and local trains to major destinations.
Crap, the attribution seems to have gone missing from my last post. That’s from The City of New Orleans, by Arlo Guthrie (and covered by dang near everybody).
Shheesh,ladies,lets all be friends again shall we….None of this bitching in here…:-)
By the sounds of it the american rail system reflects the state of the country at large quite nicely….
My dad used to take me to the big old railway station in Cologne,and until today I love the feel of a big train station,love to watch the destinations on the big board and imagine myself going somewhere far away.
The rail network in Australia is actually fairly good,its cheap and mostly on time,but the stations are functional buildings without any charme.
It’s odd that in response to PZ’z paean to Philly’s 30th Street Station that no one has mentioned Grand Central Station in NYC. It’s not quite as grand as its long gone sister, the old Penn Station in NYC (the main waiting room of which was inspired on the Roman Baths of Caracalla and was on the scale of St. Peter’s nave in Rome) which was an awe inspiring grand space. But it bit the dust in the 1960’s to make way for a “modern” Madison Square Garden and an undistinguished office tower. The station still functions well below street level but there is no grandeur, just the seedy shops of a down scale arcade and wanna-be mall. Grand Central, though handling only a quarter as many passengers daily, is a lovely space, well worth visiting, even if one isn’t taking the train. And, if you like oysters–any kind–visit the Oyster Bar there. I haven’t visited it in thirty years, but when I last ate there, the oysters were great.
Benjamin @ #102:
It’s Steve Goodman. Don’t mess with an old Chicago folkie!
But yes, Arlo also recorded the song.
For REAL up-to-date photographs of current and preserved railways try THIS SITE
Update weekly – click on internal link.
I am reminded of the World SF convention in Brighton, 1987 …
Now Brighton is about 60 miles South of London. On the last day, a US citizen came and asked us: “When does THE TRAIN leave for London?” It took us some time to convince her that she should just go to the station and GET ON THE NEXT ONE – a slow, a semi-fast and a fast every hour, from 06.30 until about 22.30.
Of course, the ultimate station in Britain is probably YORK.
The National Railway Museum is there, as well.
This reminds me of my college days, when I would take the LIRR from my home on the Island to Penn Station, then hop a train to Princeton Junction, and finally ride the Dinky to campus. My parents even lived close enough the LIRR station that I could walk home if I wanted.
More than once, I would look at those arrival/departure boards and consider skipping Princeton altogether and hopping a train to Florida. The temptation was especially acute in January, when I would be returning to reading period and (ugh) fall final exams.
Once I moved away from the Northeast Corridor, all that romance and temptation of train travel disappeared.
Now I’m in China, which has an extensive train network with a bewilderingly exhaustive schedule. Where the trains can’t take you, the buses will. It remains to be seen whether the Chinese public’s adoption of the automobile will affect the train system.
thank you very much admin
PZ – If you haven’t already read it, you might enjoy “Home from Nowhere” by James Howard Kunstler (the follow up to “The Geography of Nowhere”). It’s a stimulating critique of modern urban development and one of its most powerfully made points is that modern towns and cities are primarily designed for cars, not people, generating in their inhabitants exactly the sorts of feelings you describe…
Me, I live in Tokyo. If you want to see public transport done exceptionally well, this place would take some beating!
“the whole thing with air travel nowadays is that you have to do it”
No. You don’t. Imagine a life without jet travel. It’s easy if you try.
Actually PZ’s sentiments sum up the problem in a nutshell. Even right-thinking, or more accurately green-thinking, individuals who understand the importance of efficient mass transit yet somehow think it doesn’t apply to us. PZ bemoans the dilapidated Morris, MN train station while considering necessary to fly to Philly. Why? You could have easily taken the train from Minneapolis to Philadelphia. Why didn’t you? Take too much time? Too inconvenient? As long as most Americans feel this way it is no wonder mass transit struggles.
The fact of the matter is most people do not let their environmental principles interfere with their choices on where to live and where to work. I’ve met scores of people who say, “I’d love to take the train/bus to work, but it doesn’t run close to me.” “Did you consider this when you were buying your house?” “No…” Conversely if more Americans starting using trains/buses more service would naturally improve, routes would expand, and convenience would increase. Either eventuality is a self-reinforcing prophecy.
And lets not forget the mother of all ecological decisions: the choice to breed. Whether you produce little Suzy or not will have a far greater effect on the planet than how you get to work. I find it amazing that trained biologists who understand carrying capacity as it relates to yeast in a petri dish somehow can’t extrapolate this to humans on the planet earth. So far I see no signs that as a species we behave more intelligently than yeast.
The experience people have West of the Mississippi is not an accident. The U.S. transit system and it’s development West of the Mississippi suffered from a huge influence and intervention by the automotive industry. Oddly enough, the plot line to the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit has a basis in history. GM bought the electric ass transit systems of 45 cities between 1936 and 1949, decommissioned the electric street car systems, replaced them with busses, then let the bus services deteriorate. GM, Firestone and Standard Oil were convicted of conspiracy in the Federal District Court in Chicago in 1949. They were fined $5,000.
In the 1950s instead of a rail system or other mass transit options the Eisenhower administration pushed through the “National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of 1956” which created the present highway system. Look at a railroad map of the US. The contrast between East and West of the Mississippi is stark and obvious: a complex and thorough web to the East, and far less in the West. Town and City planning West of the Mississippi also forces the use of cars (my favorite example is the county south of San Francisco in California. You can not reach the county government office buildings anyway than by car – no sidewalks, nothing — AND you have to use a freeway part of the way). Most development in the U.S. starting in the last half of the 20th century has reliance on cars built in to the layout of a given place itself. So much for choice.
Citation: David Cogswell Chomsky for beginners (New York : Writers and Readers, 1996), p. 113 [for verification of the actions of GM, et al and their prosecution].
I”m glad someone enjoyed Philly… I’ve always despised Philly’s airport… it probably has something to do with their perfect record of never once failing to lose my luggage for at least 24 hours.
Ah, yes, Grand Central Station. I went through it in the 80s, and having seen it in many old movies, I had a mental picture that did not include homless people camped out and spitting on the seats in the waiting room.
As for the sense of possibility in old train stations, I get that in airports looking at the list of departures, or even just pointing my car out of town. I can go anywhere! Well, anywhere in North America if I’m driving. Or at least anywhere in Canada these days. I just love travelling. It’s a lot more than getting from A to B.
Gordy @ 109
I have both books by James Howard Kunstler; good stuff there! I love reading about the development of cities and their evolving infrastructure. So much to understand with so many books on the subject.
How far American passenger-rail service has fallen! Grand Central Terminal used to be NYC’s stop for an almost legendary train, the Twentieth Century Limited, but now it’s NYC’s downtown station for the Metro-North commuter railroad, which only goes out as far as Poughkeepsie and New Haven. Though the East Side Access connection to the Long Island Rail Road is now being built to it.
All of Amtrak’s trains now go to Penn Station, including its successor of the 20th Cy. Limited’s, the Lake Shore Limited, which seems almost peasant-class by comparison.
And as to PZ not quite practicing what he preaches, I suggest going to http://www.amtrak.com and setting up a trip from Minneapolis to Philly and back.
Minneapolis – (Empire Builder) – Chicago takes 8 hours on a long-distance train that comes from Seattle and Portland and that runs once a day.
Chicago – (Lake Shore Limited) – NYC is 19 hours and runs once a day. EB-LSL gap: 6h east, 5h west
Chicago – (Capitol Limited) – DC is 18 hours and runs once a day. EB-CL gap: 3h east, 6h west
So unless PZ is planning to spend a day or two in Chicago each way, Amtrak is not a very good option.
Fortunately, trains from NYC or DC and Philly and back are fast and frequent, so that part of the trip is less trouble.
@Loren Petrich: Amtrak says it takes about a day to get to get to PA and a day to get back. In my experience Amtrak is usually close to schedule except in the winter. I would not count on them being very close to schedule in January/February.
And your larger point would be that people shouldn’t use trains because they are less convenient than flying? Trains are almost always less convenient than flying, but that’s no point at all. I don’t see a transition to a sustainable future that doesn’t involve some lack of convenience.
—
Does anyone else find it telling that PZ has not commented on this discussion about the inherent contradiction in his post? I’m starting to think that maybe PZ likes going after fundies and other purveyors of woo mostly because they make easy targets.
Longtime Lurker @73,
I’ve probably got 40 years on him if a scuffle ensues, so I like my chances.
That’s the kind of physical altercation I prefer. Even better, I challenged god to 12 rounds, Marquess of Queensbury Rules, last week and the coward never showed up.
Oh – all you Phillophiles might like Brad Guigar’s weekly Phables. They’re less punny than his other work.
heh, if you think that Philly train stations have a templ-like appearance, you should look at the St Petersburg metro: like Kirovsky Zavod, or Avtovo. Monuments to the glory of communism…err…Stalinism, they are. but rather beautiful, nonetheless.
Dave Wiley, what is your experience with Amtrak? Regular Philly – Minneapolis trips? I would not be surprised if Amtrak’s short-distance trains are very punctual most of the time, but that cannot be said of its long-distance ones.
And the total trip time is well over 24 hours. He’d leave Minneapolis in the morning and and arrive in Philly next day afternoon, and he’d live Philly at noon and arrive in Minneapolis next day late evening, assuming that he does not spend the night in Chicago either way.
@Loren Petrich
My parents live in Iowa. My inlaws live in Rochester NY. I live near Denver. So most of my experience is between these points. Amtrak posts their recent ontime performance on a route-by-route basis (if you dig for it) and there are websites that have this same data going back years. This is how I was able to state with a degree of confidence that Amtrak winter performance is more erratic than the other seasons.
It takes me about twice as long to travel to my families now as it did before so I do it about half as often. That suits me fine. Most of my real vacations are within bike or bus/bike distance of my house. At first I thought this was a sacrifice, but after I while I learned then when it only takes you an hour or so to get to where you’re going the vacation gets that much longer. It also doesn’t hurt that I live in one of the most spectacular states in the lower 48. I’d really like to go to back to wine country sometime, but I need to figure out how to get from the closest Amtrak stop in Davis to Sonoma. Something tells me that this would be a bit far on a folding bike.