Adnan Oktar/Harun Yahya has been interviewed in Spiegel Online (that’s in German; you might want to read this short paraphrase in English). He says a number of, umm, interesting things.
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He dislikes Intelligent Design intensely, and sees it as a dishonest form of creationism.
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The Islamic terrorists aren’t actually Muslim—they are all foreign-educated Darwinist atheists. That includes Osama bin Laden.
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In the 2009 Darwin year, he plans to celebrate the collapse of Darwinism. I don’t think so.
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He claims that he can finance sending out free copies of the Atlas of Creation because he doesn’t accept royalties, so the publisher profits heavily. Uh, wait — how does the publisher profit off books that are given away?
As is commonly discovered, arch-creationists are very wacky people.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I needed a good Monday laugh. Holy crap, what a douche bag!
When did he get out of jail/the asylum?
“Uh, wait — how does the publisher profit off books that are given away?”
So not only is he a biology/physics/geology/astronomy FAIL, he’s also a mathematics/economics FAIL.
But it sure has some purrrrty pictures.
And by purty I mean stolen.
Sounds like a real dumb-ass. The poor guy’s going to be very disappointed when no one shows up to his ‘I collapsed Darwinism’ party. No one likes eating cake alone.
Why doesn’t the slime jump off of a high minaret and see if his allah will catch him. Moron.
Just define them to be so, then they must be.
I like how he hates ID, though. As it has become discredited, the traditionalists seem considerably more hostile toward ID than they have been. As predicted.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
A small translation;
He says:
“There are over 100 million fossils, which proves that there was a creation.”
(How?)
“And these fossils do not change.”
(Has he looked at the fossil record?)
A fish was always a fish, a crab was always a crab.
Must not be familiar with Tiktaalik or Acanthostega… Not to mention placoderms, squamates, serpents, therapods, etc.
“One finds the same fossils anywhere in the world.”
Really now? I’d love to find a fossil australopithecus in North America…
“We have also demonstrated this in Turkey, and have seen with my own eyes.”
Good for you… Where’s the evidence?
“This is a clear proof.”
No, it’s claiming proof, not proof…
“In contrast, Darwinism has no evidence for the theory of evolution.”
Wow…just wow.
“Their followers have no fossil evidence found that you could exploit.”
Evolutionary theory would be fine without them; it doesn’t even NEED fossils!
His last line is filled with even more fail:
“Darwinism is everywhere in the world under official protection. No other ideology, no other idea was ever this off-limits. Any criticism causes an official response.”
His own religion is a perfect example of an ideology which is far more protected than evolutionary theory. I actually disagree with something in the field of biology, the species concept, but it’s not shielded, most biologists welcome the criticism when it is warranted. It’s when completely frivolous attacks are made simply because they disagree with a particular dogma that biologists get pissy.
Actually, this would be great. Think of a new scientific revolution in biology that overthrows all we think we know. Oh, wait… He means theological retrograde, doesn’t he? Damn it, I thought he had discovered rabits in the jurasic.
Holbach, the moron knows allah will definitely NOT catch him
Maybe they make money giving away books the way the Change Bank on SNL made money – volume.
actually, he says that his books sell excellently (8 mil. copies in Turkey, 2 mil. copies abroad), and because of that he can afford to send out free copies.At least that’s what he says in the German version. What I want to know is how HE makes any money if he doesn’t get any money from his books…
He dislikes Intelligent Design intensely, and sees it as a dishonest form of creationism.
that’s rather odd, considering he was a guest of the Disinformation Institute and sat on the “board” during the Kansas Kangaroo Kourt (before the Dover trial).
I’m sure the links to that can be found on the NCSE site if one goes back to around that time.
I rather think it would be a good idea to spread the word of his positive interaction with “the evil West” back in his neck of the woods.
Has he filed an injunction against all the sites that detailed his participation with the Disinformation Institute yet?
filled with even more fail
“Filled with Fail”
That’s going on the back of my next anti-antiscience tshirt.
#14, can you please provide me with a link when that comes available?
This reminds me of some wacky beliefs one of my Xtian-oid aunts believes because of what her dumbass preacher taught them while doing a “study” of non-Xtian religions:
* The 9/11 terrorists were not Islamic, they were Muslims.
* Specifically they were Black Muslims (religiously not ethnically).
One of my other Xtian-oid aunts is totally convinced that the Left Behind series is/will be accurate.
oh, I don’t sell them, I just make shirts for my own use.
It’s not hard; there’s very likely a silk-screener in your area.
hell, there are even kits to do it with your ink-jet printer these days.
Did you ever make me do a double take with that German headline. And wow, what a moron. It seems creationists are now coming to Europe, too, via Islam.
HA! I’m still enjoying the effects of “First math test as a Freshman ever” buzz and not even something this absurdly stupid can bring me down! Nothing, I say!
*opens CNN*
Ah poop.
Wouldn’t that had been sometime during the Precambrian or maybe Paleozoic dependent upon where we start counting?
I wonder what would happen if he ever found out we use the calendar revised by Pope Gregory.
In pretty much the same way scientists have always hated ID for not being scientific enough, “real”[1] creationists have always hated ID because it isn’t religious enough.
[1] aka “true”
You should have attended Ron Numbers’ talk at Madison last week! He talked briefly about how Oktar came to dislike ID: it seems that one of his disciples was achieving some repute as a spokesman for ID+Islam — remember Mustafa Akyol?
As you might guess, one thing the charismatic head of an autocratic cult will not tolerate is an uppity acolyte who might steal some of the attention…so ID got repudiated.
The secret is volume!
okay Darwinians, explain this one:
If natural selection is true, why is Adnan Oktar/Harun Yahya alive.
Also when you guys read idiocy like this
“The Islamic terrorists aren’t actually Muslim–they are all foreign-educated Darwinist atheists. That includes Osama bin Laden.”
How can your faith in natural selection not be dented?
I not only find myself losing faith in evolutionary theory, but also faith in a benevolent god.
Marco @ 10
Precisely why reality is smack in the face only when expedient to the one being tested. This same moron will go to a full hospital when sick, and not deign to lie on a cold floor in a mosque with deranged mullahs spittle-flecking him with appeals to allah. Phony shits who will only die quickly on a suicide mission to spare themselves of the pain that allah will not abate. Damn, there must be hundreds of millions of virgins waiting for all that shit that don’t seem to appear for their rewards. Maybe the virgins are waiting in the wrong place. Pathetic.
Sheesh, now we’re getting blamed for Islamic Terrorist Jihadism?
What next? Blaming us for the Nazis?
oh wait…
how about the Spanish Inquisition? I don’t think we’ve been blamed for that quite yet. That’s still *ALL* catholics, right?
Oktar: Unlike Creation, the Darwinists have no evidence for the theory of evolution. Their camp have found no useful fossil evidence.
The mind boggles at this statement. I wish I could take strong evidence from the opposition and call it strong evidence for my position.
Oktar: The Darwinists stand all over the world under official defense [of the theory]. No other ideology, no other idea is so completely shielded. Any criticism prompts an official reaction. But it’s still a scientific fact that evolution is false. Everyone who reads “The Atlas of Creation” comes to this conclusion. The Darwinists have betrayed mankind for 150 years.
Again, another completely nonsensical argument. Because scientists are capable of defending their position, their position is somehow weaker?
Oktar: One should be an upstanding believer in Allah, one should promote religion, whether it’s Islam or Christianity. The concept of Intelligent Design argues that things were created, but not by whom. One should clearly say: [the creator] was Allah.
So Oktar doesn’t disapprove of the message of ID, just the fact that it tries (and fails) to be less explicit about its ineptness as a scientific discipline.
Oktar: Darwinism is the foundation for Hitler’s and Mussolini’s Fascism, as well as Stalin’s Communism.
Hey, look who showed up to the party!
I might translate more later, but you get the general idea. Everything bad that ever happened is lumped onto the scapegoat flavor of the week. In this case, Evolution.
That’s still *ALL* catholics, right?
IIRC, the argument from modern catholics revolves around the “Cardinal Glick” argument:
“You can’t blame the current mother church for the sins of old.”
Cardinal Glick on Christ:
@Kim, they are not only coming via Islam, we already have our own share of crazy xian creationists, both YEC as well as IDiots. It was only last year that one of the EU parliamentary bodies started discussing the problem of creationism trying to creep into European science education. It wasn’t the Islamic influence on creationism they were mainly discussing.
In the 2009 Darwin year, he plans to celebrate the collapse of Darwinism.
This is from a d00d who published pictures of fishing lures, claiming they were insects!
Is it too much to hope that good ol’ Osama declares a fatwah on Oktar?
The youtube user CapnOrdinary did a great series of videos debunking Harun Yahya’s silly book.
I might not get very far if this interview already starts with some absurdity. First the German and then my translation (as literal as I can): “Es gibt über 100 Millionen Fossilien, die beweisen, dass es eine Schöpfung gab. Und diese Fossilien haben sich nie verändert.” – “There are more than 100 million fossils that prove that there was a creation. And those fossils have never changed.” Well DUH! Of course fossils don’t change! They are DEAD! Oh, wait! I guess I should take him literally, huh?
I assume that Oktar is using “official” as in police. That is, he is probably claiming that scientists can’t rationally defend Darwinism so they hire “strong arms” to defend it by force.
“Oktar: Darwinism is the foundation for Hitler’s and Mussolini’s Fascism, as well as Stalin’s Communism.”
So much fail. What Hitler aspired to was to use artificial selection, which is used to breed dogs, horses, cows, chickens, vegetables, on human beings. What Mussolini aspired to was an Italian Empire to rival that of France and Britain. There was nothing ‘Darwinist’ about it.
Ok, so I used Babelfish to translate the page and read the article. The summary was pretty good and covered the core content.
What I read there is a lot of typical propaganda from the likes of the creationists here in the United States. “Allah did it,” is not a scientific explanation. Also, the notion that Osama bin Laden and the members of Al Qaeda and their allies are not Muslims is ABSURD. It strikes me the same was as those who say that the guys who did the Oklahoma City Bombing weren’t really Christians, even though they were heavily indoctrinated in far-right, fascist Christian theology.
That is, he is probably claiming that scientists can’t rationally defend Darwinism so they hire “strong arms” to defend it by force.
I recall an old Far Side cartoon that pictured a guy dressed in a “science garb” with a cop fronting him and yelling at the people on the sidewalk to:
“Get out of the way! An ecologist is coming!”
In the late 80’s I think it was plastered on over half of the biology staff office doors at UCSB.
he’s using “official” as in “governmental”, so yes. he’s claiming that scientists can’t support their theory by themselves, so they’re using government to strong-arm everybody into thinking the way they want. his persecution-complex is showing
I hope post #24 was a joke…
Ichthyic; yes, I have made a few of my own shirts, I was just going to buy one if they were being sold, simply because it sounds cool
Rachel @33, yea, that’s pretty much what I got out of it, too, except he’s ignoring a few million other fossils, not to mention the ages of said fossils…
You are so wise @ # 24, …I not only find myself losing faith in evolutionary theory, but also faith in a benevolent god.
Just because some people are stupid or crazy doesn’t mean natural selection doesn’t work. It simply produces organisms that function sufficiently well within an ecological niche to pass on their genes.
A benevolent god is against the evidence, so I’m with you on that.
his persecution-complex is showing
more like projecting what he himself is used to.
Fortunately, creationist are still a tiny minority over here and very few people take them and their programmes seriously (I don’t know about Turkey, though). I guess they interviewed him, because it is some kind of freak-show. And wow, he delivers!
By the way, the end of the interview is kind of nice too. Apparently he got a prison sentence recently for founding an ‘illegal organisation for personal gain’ (one is left wondering if it has something to do with fishing….). But he says that he appealed because there were ‘no proves’ that he ‘judges to be acceptable’. His idea of justice seems to be similar to his idea of biology. It is obviously up to him to decide what is a fact and what not.
P.S.: The summary at the link above is quite complete an accurate. You don’t need a translation of the interview if you don’t speak German.
Regarding the question on how he can finance the free books: Apparently he’s making all the money by selling plenty of other books.
“Only last year, we sold 8 million books in Turkey and 2 million outside of Turkey.” And this year he’s selling twice that… I guess there are lots of people actually buying this crap… Well, the pictures are beautiful!
The German quote:
“Allein im letzten Jahr wurden acht Millionen Exemplare in der Türkei und zwei Millionen im Ausland abgesetzt.”
And– arch evolutionists are wacky too as is Dr. P.Z. Myers who has a real knack for being an intolerant hateful person who perhaps wants to return to the days of the Red Guard of Red China’s cultural revolution of “re-education camps” for those that don’t buy into Dr. Myers ways. Maybe an inquisition of all science teachers? That would be fun– forget all the peer reviews, administrative reviews etc. Dr. Myers said once “The only appropriate response should involve some form of righteous fury, much butt-kicking, and the public firing of some teachers, many school board members, and vast numbers of sleazy, far-right politicians…I say, screw the polite words and careful rhetoric. It’s time for scientists to break out the steel-toed boots and brass knuckles, and get out there and hammer on the lunatics and idiots.” How can that quote be defended by any sane educator or even a lefty blogger. Maybe Dr. Myers could come up with a controlled study with quantitative results that proves his hypothesis that ID teachers are inferior. How about it Dr. Myers, that should not prove too difficult– right??. How Dr. Myers gets a pass from the administration at Morris is beyond me– such threatening words are really very juvenile and immature, not to mention hateful.
Yay, one of my favourite loonies. *sigh*
I’ll do a complete translation if anyone’s interested (just not sure where to put it yet…).
Also, the article says there’s more about islamic creationists in the current print issue. I’ll check that out. Maybe there’s more entertaining and less frustrating material to be found. ;)
My favorite line:
“Der Darwinismus ist die Grundlage für Hitlers und Mussolinis Faschismus und Stalins Kommunismus”
This is wrong on so many levels.
Creationists should be accorded the same level of respect as any charlatan peddling snake-oil on the street corner.
coacholson, …proves his hypothesis that ID teachers are inferior.
Easy! ID = goddidit, for which there is no evidence at all. It is magic-thinking, so can’t be disproved, even though the actual evidence is 100% against it. So, ID teachers & believers are inferior. In fact, they are either stupid ot they’re crazy.
Dr Myers is spot-on right that the con artists preaching that anti-science nonsense should be castigated severely.
Moron @44
Dear kind sir,
Perhaps you could be so kind as to demonstrate evidence that what teachers pushing so called “intelligent design” in the classroom is based upon scientific testing. If they are not based upon scientific testing, then teaching this as “science” is not, in any way, acceptable. In the likely event you still do not understand, let me put it to you in terms you may understand:
ID is not science, never has been, never will be, to teach it in a classroom which should be teaching science is, by the very nature of the contradiction, inferior. You do not need a study to demonstrate this, logic works just fine.
In the likely event you STILL don’t get it, here’s a little experiment for you: look for any peer reviewed papers which demonstrate design in any organism on Earth, when you find it, let me know.
Before the real dogpile begins on our driveby religiotard @44, I’d like to give him what he apparently came here for: “Fuck you, Mr. Fartface Stupidhead!” Probably not quite as hateful as he was hoping but I do believe I got the juvenile immaturity part down.
Thay being said, perhaps “coacholson” (who I am willing to bet sometimes is called upon to sub for the science teachers once in a while)would care to present some peer reviewed ID research with ANY results, quantitative or otherwise. :crickets chirping:
coacholson @ 44
Sounds like all the insane religious crap puked out over these many years by the same crud PZ excoriates. Religion is the despoiler of humanity, not science and people of reason. Hell, that rhetoric by PZ sounds quite tame to what I would have used. Anything used against religion to show that it is insanity run amuck is warranted, no matter how strident and demeaning or offered in an iron glove. You only have to get your imaginary god to put an end to this crapping on religion. Where is your god?
“Der Darwinismus ist die Grundlage für Hitlers und Mussolinis Faschismus und Stalins Kommunismus” (English: “Darwinism is the groundwork for Hitler’s and Mussolini’s fascism and Stalin’s communism.”)
That is really strange.
@coacholsen… no study necessary. ID is inferior by its own definition. If, as a science teacher, you teach ID, you are incompetent as a scientist. A teacher with a poor grasp of the subject he is meant to teach should be fired, what’s so hard to understand about that? You might as well suggest a study to find out if someone with no command of the English language whatsoever is qualified to teach Shakespeare.
How can that quote be defended by any sane educator or even a lefty blogger.
quite easily, when it’s not taken out of context like you just did.
coacholson,
It was a metaphor, moron. Like this one: fuck off and die.
How Dr. Myers gets a pass from the administration at Morris is beyond me– such threatening words are really very juvenile and immature, not to mention hateful.
another entry in the “religionauts project constantly” database.
This one is ·”interesting”, he says ;
Für einen Menschen, der Allah fürchtet, ist es unmöglich, Terrorakte durchzuführen.
For someone who fears Allah, it is impossible to carry out a terrorist act !
Certanly not for a Shi’a. What about if the terror act is part of a Jihad ?
– “Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your disposal so that you can strike terror into the enemies of Allah and of the believers and others beside them who may be unknown to you, though Allah knows them. And remember whatever you spend for the cause of Allah shall be repaid to you. You shall not be wronged.”
–Qur’an
Hey Coach,
Is that going to be on the test?
</highschool, back of the room>
#46 DCP said:
And yet it is so common that it even got an entry in the Quixotic Message:
Darwinists are responsible for both socialism and laissez-faire capitalism. Both racism and liberalism. Both feminism and sexism. Both animal research and the animal rights movement. And Commie-Nazism. [11]
Adnan Oktar is right! Allah have given us everything, including fish fingers: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080922.wtoes0922/BNStory/Science/home
Oh, wait–this suggests fish evolved. And that there are transitional fossils. Never mind.
that isn’t so much strange as it is a conflation of a series of simplistic arguments: Both Hitler and Stalin (no clue about Mussolini) did their best to eradicate Organized Religion from their nations because of fear of a competing source of power over people; they did the same with ALL other powerful organizations, i.e. dissolved them and introduced a state-sanctified version.
Out of this, the simplistic argument goes like this: against Organized Religion = against religiosity/spirituality = Atheists = Darwinists.
Is it strange that when I first saw the title of this thread:
Alle Terroristen sind Darwinisten
the first thing that came to mind was this:
I think somebody wants to get banned in Turkey too.
PZ: Just yell something, if you need any help from us. I’m pretty sure we can load up some pretty juicy swear words at this supreme idiot Adnan Oktar (or whatever hell is his name).
If anyone feels the need to experience the crazy firsthand, just about all of Oktar’s books can be downloaded as PDFs here.
Rev BDC KoT (OM?) asks-
VOLUME!
A copy of “Atlas of Creation” should be mailed to the terrorists that he is calling darwinist-atheists with a translated copy of that article from spiegel pasted into the front cover.
Just did a complete translation and mailed it to you, PZ…
because the summary is missing one of the gems of the interview, IMHO. Short version:
Spiegel: “Why don’t you believe in evolution?”
Yahya: “I don’t accept the evidence!”
(later…)
Spiegel: “Why aren’t you in jail right now?”
Yahya: “I don’t accept the evidence!”
Hrhr. Let’s hope the court of appeals finds that just as ridiculous.
I rest my case– The wonderful thoughtful replies by all of you. Instead of any quantitative data from research I get FUs– you must have a limited vocabulary. Emotionalism and swearing– how delightful of you. How scientific of you! You guys are really a joke. I think some of you should get some more socialization and I don’t think it from this blog. I really don’t care what you think to tell you the truth. We had a new abbreviation for people like you at school to go with E.B.D. and O.D.D.: J.P.N.– Just Plain Nuts! Thanks– you have given me some great quotes to prove how out of touch some of you are.
Ah yes. Unscientific BS should be taught in science class, and caring, lovely people like you with sympathy for kids with disorders are perfectly qualified as teachers, assuming you really are a “coach”. Makes perfect sense.
I really don’t care what you think to
tell you the truthlie unabashedly.there, fixed that for you.
coacholson @ 68
No, you and your imaginary god are the jokes, and the joking about to the roar of hilarity. Hell, you just did not expect this onslaught of rationalism to your deranged brain gone insane with your crap religion. All the replies were not FU’s as you seem to imply, but just basic reason to show and prove that you are insane and do not know it.
It must piss you off that you cannot get your god to kick the crap out of us like we do with your kind and your crap insane religion. The whole country is not afflicted with religious insanity as you presume it to be. There are still many of us sane enough to know when religion afflicted brains are out puking their brand of delusion and do not expect such an outporing of battering reason to combat your sappy religious crap. The world of religion is not the real world, and you have had a taste of that firsthand. Give us some more of your crap religious ideas and we will surely and wholeheartedly drop you in the sewer with your religion where you belong. Welcome aboard!
We had a new abbreviation for people like you at school
LOL you’re a child.
here’s an abbreviation that applies to you:
ADHD
Now go get medicated like a good little xian soldier.
An interview with Roger Ebert:
q…
should that link be in the thread on Ebert?
Uh oh! Comment the two-millionth comes most likely not from Turkey.
coacholson… if you don’t wanna be treated like a troll, don’t behave like one.
Give us some more of your crap religious ideas and we will surely and wholeheartedly drop you in the sewer with your religion where you belong. Welcome aboard!
Crap, uninspired and dull
Come Aboard. We’re expecting you.
Crap, religion’s reward.
Let it flow, it floats back to you.
The Crap Boat…
Soon will be making another run.
The Crap Boat…
Promises something for everyone!
Tune out all adventure,
set your meters* on overload!
…Welcome aboard it’s CraAAAAaaaAAAAp!
*(Irony, that is).
“The” species concept? There are at least 25 species concepts out there!
Not at all. It’s typical religious-wacko logic. You see… would the devil fight against himself? No: evil = evil = evil. Therefore, Hitler = Mussolini = Stalin.
(I’m sure he finds some way to simply ignore the whole WWII from 1941 onward. Maybe it was the Conspiracy, I mean, the devil putting up a show.)
Well, no. All three cooperated with the biggest churches whenever they saw fit. Sometimes such organizations can be very useful to a dictator. The churches “just” had to pay attention to what they said about which topics.
Der hund ist verruckt.
Sometimes such organizations can be very useful to a dictator.
Just ask W!
Der hund ist verruckt.
is that the equivalent of calling someone a “mad dog” in the States?
Coacholson:
“I really don’t care what you think to tell you the truth.”
Well then, coach, StFU.
David M
Hitler cooperated with churches where he couldn’t usurp their power, but at the same time he institutionalized many Germanic celebrations to undermine traditional holidays, created a state sanctioned church which failed, and then “softened” his approach to “synchronization”, i.e. churches could remain legal institutions as long as they strictly followed the party line. The Concordat with the Papacy lasted only long enough to dissolve the catholic parties and unions; the ultimate goal was in either case replacement of independent churches with a church subordinate to him.
Stalin went for the more direct approach and made sure religion was declared a anti-communist force and was persecuted. again, not because people believing in angels and invisible powerful men was a big deal to him, but because the church (Russian orthodox and catholic especially) had power over people that he didn’t want anyone else to have. The Russian Orthodox church only survived extinction because it completely subordinated itself to Stalin’s regime.
in either case, the reason was not atheism, but a fear of competing influence.
ACK! Double negative! Kill it! Kill it with…FIRE!
*Brandishes lit torch*
—–
I actually found out I know some people who have this loon’s books. Fun. Judging by at least one title we get to go over the whole Darwinism=Nazism thing again. It’s a bizarre feeling because I’ve explained it before, I just haven’t explained it to these particular individuals yet.
Ichthyic: Sort of, yes.
Word-for-word it translates: “That dog is crazy”.
In the culural vernacular it more resembles “that guy is a mad dog” or “that dog-of-a-man is mad”.
Germans know hydrophobia is very pernicious.
To: Nick Gotts #55
I realize it is a metaphor sir. I have said that in other posts. Just as when I have said that some evolutionists are “book burners” is a metaphor. The bottom line is this, Myers wants to wreck careers and lives and is setting up a single issue as the lone requirement for people to teach. If he used that language in an email to another staff member at a public school metaphor or not he would be roundly disciplined.
If your hero, Richard Dawkins, were put into a Junior High science class, even though you love his atheistic philosophy, I doubt very much you would want him for your children since he would be destroyed by the little ones.
Let me see, your evidence without a study would be:
1. Most teaching in public schools is evolutionary.
2. Test scores in science are low.
3. Let’s blame the ID educators and the likes of Jonathan Wells.
I guess that makes sense to you. Your mind is made up– why test?
By the way are you certified with a degree to make moron labels? Are you certified as an administrator to do classroom reviews and check for lesson plan development?
Coacholson;
People don’t have to be nice to be right.
Also, when you barge onto a blog and insult everyone on it, people often react badly. Quotemining/taking out of context is also a particular red flag to most people here. Not mentioned in the bible anywhere but I assure you it’s true.
Evidence supports evolution. No evidence supports a six-day divine creation.
That’s all there is to it. I appreciate that this answer may not be reassuring, or what you want to hear, but again that has nothing to do with its truth, sad to say.
Best of luck for the future, and please do some bloody reading. Your ignorance is showing.
And on the off chance that you’re just trolling for a laugh- not the best troll I’ve seen. Try putting words in all caps and making sweeping threats of genocide or damnation for a little more zing.
“If your hero, Richard Dawkins, were put into a Junior High science class, even though you love his atheistic philosophy, I doubt very much you would want him for your children since he would be destroyed by the little ones.”
Actually, Dawkins has done a bit of science and rationalism work with kids, and done it well. I for one would be pleased to have him teach my children.
So stop putting words in people’s mouths.
Gosh, do you think that’s why he posted on his blog? Are you unable to distinguish among the various forms of communication that may take place via these tubes?
I think, just possibly, we may, after decades at least, have A NEW CREATIONIST ARGUMENT!!!
Call it argumentum ad juvenilium. Roughly, if aspersions can be cast on the ability of a given proponent of a given idea to maintain order in a junior high classroom, the idea is false. Congratulations coach! You’re really stupid, but in a novel way. That’s worth something in our fast-paced, novelty-hungry culture. Get that memoir out fast, though.
coacholson, you should work on your reading comprehension. PZ Myers has repeadedly said that belief in any flavor of crewationism should be sufficient to DISqualify anyone from teaching science for the simple reason that belief in creationism is a surefire sign of lack of understanding of science.
He did not say that accepting evolution is the sole requirement for being a good teacher; merely that it is ONE requirement: having an understanding of the subject-matter which you’re teaching. I wouldn’t want someone who doesn’t have a solid understanding of French to be a French-teacher, either
Aw bollocks, I come back from the pub and what do I come back to? More Turkey shit? Sorry. I should have stayed in the pub. Anyway, for anyone who might be interested, below is my translation of the Spiegel article.
(SO = Spiegel Online; AO = Adnan Oktar)
“All terrorists are Darwinists”
Evolution doesn’t exist, Darwin’s teachings are the work of the devil: his books made Adnan Oktar (aka Harun Yahya) one of the best known creationists in the Islamic world. In an interview with the SPIEGEL ONLINE, he explains how he plans to triumph over Darwinism.
SO: Mr Oktar, practically all serious biologists would agree that the theory of evolution is probably the best-supported theory since the discovery that the Earth is spheroid. Are you going to show everybody wrong?
AO: There are over a 100 million fossils in existence that prove creation. And these fossils have never changed. A fish has always been a fish, a crab has always been a crab. These fossils can be found everywhere on Earth. We have found them in Turkey as well, and people have seen them with their own eyes. This is clear proof. As opposed to creation, Darwinism has no proof for the theory of evolution. Its followers have no usable fossil proof.
SO: In the previous year, the Council for Europe has advised EU States not to treat creationism and evolution as on an equal footing in school curricula. Do you consider this a defeat?
AO: Darwinism is officially protected all over the world. No other ideology, no other idea has ever enjoyed this much protection. Any critique engenders official reaction. Nevertheless, it is a scientific fact that evolution is wrong. Anybody who reads my “Atlas of Creation” will come to this conclusion. Darwinism has been deceiving humanity for 150 years.
SO: To what degree have you been influenced by American and European Christian fundamentalists, the followers of so-called Intelligent Design?
AO: I find the concept of Intelligent Design rather dishonest. One should believe in the existence of Allah straigh-up, one should stand up for religion, for Islam or Christianity. Intelligent Design claims things were created somehow, but not by whom. One should clearly say: this was Allah’s doing.
SO: Richard Dawkins, one of the most prominent proponents of the new atheism, has published a Turkish language edition of his bestseller “The God Delusion”. 15000 copies are said to have been sold already. One of his claims is that religion can cause terrorism.
AO: Darwinism is the foundation for Hitler’s and Mussolini’s fascism, and Stalin’s communism. And when we look at current affairs, we see that all terrorists – even those who call themselves Muslims – are in reality Darwinists and atheists. A believer who prays regulary doesn’t plant bombs. This is Only done by people who pretend to be Muslims – or Darwinists, who clearly state that they are terrorists or communists. It follows that they are all Darwinists.
SO: Do you really believe that someone like Osama Bin Laden, who justifies terrorist attacks with the Koran and the godlessness of the West, holds Darwinist ideals?
AO: These people are not always the way that they appeared to be in their youth. If one tests them about their true beliefs, one will recognise that they are materialists and Darwinists at heart. For someone who fears Allah, it is impossible to carry out terrorist acts. Such deeds are done by people who have studied abroad, have a Darwinist upbringing, have internalised Darwin, and later call themselves Muslims.
SO: Since you just mentioned Hitler: on your website, you condemn the Holocaust and bing it into context with Darwinism. In the nineties, you wrote a book about the so-called “Holocaust-lie”.
AO: This book is not by me, it is by one of my friends, Nuri Ozbudak. He published his own essays under that title. We have later protested this, and a notary has clarified the facts. I did not complain against the author, but against the use of my name. My own book on this subject was published later.
SO: The next year will see the 200th anniversary of Darwin’s birth and the 150th anniversary of his main work, “On The Origin Of Species”. Will you join the celebrations?
AO: This will be a worldwide celebration of the collapse of Darwinism. People will be astonished how on Earth they could have believed in Darwinism, how they have been duped for years. How hundreds, thousands of universities and professors were misled and how they were deceived by Satan.
SO: One of your books is the “Atlas of Creation”, a thick and obviously very pricey volume. It has already been sent out all over the world, numerous editors have received free copies. How do you finance your fight against Darwinism?
AO: The publisher makes a great profit as I don’t receive royalties. And my books sell in large numbers. In the last year alone, eight million copies were sold in Turkey, and two million abroad. Almost no other books in Turkey sell so well. This year is even better, with the sales numbers many times greater. They have doubled. Under these circumstances it is normal that the publisher would send out free copies, this is part of public relations. But it is the publisher who pays for that.
SO: This year in May you were found guilty by a Turkish court of having founded an illegal organisation for the purpose of personal profit.
AO: Yes, I was indeed accused of being the head of a criminal organisation. I was sentenced to three years’ detention. But this is yet to be confirmed by the court of appeal. There is no evidence in existence that I consider acceptable. My confession was obtained in the absence of counsel and under duress. Nobody in Turkey would accept a sentence such as that which I was served.
Interview conducted by Daniel Steinvorth.
The coach has posted on a couple of old, almost dead threads. He is a true creobot. Show no mercy.
coacholson @ 86
You bet we are certified with a degree, rational degree, to make moron labels, especially when you puke out the name of Jonathan Wells, who was unworthedly mentioned in the same piece as Richard Dawkins. That crazed creationist crud should not be equated with anyone whom is intellectually and morally superior to his deranged brain. An analogy would be to place Dinesh D’Crapa(I’m sure you can guess his real name) in the same sentence as H L Mencken, who would gladly reduce that bug-eyed religious lizard to the slime mold he is every bit conceived. Unlike your imaginary god, we are omnipotent and more than able and willing to generously dispense with moron labels to the deserving. If your imaginary god was alive(sic), then it would be more than eligible for the moniker of moron.
Yes. Out here in the real world, we call that “qualification”. ID is unscientific, therefore IDers don’t qualify as science teachers. Simple.
Incidentally, Dawkins does do science classes for kids. The “little ones” love it.
Btw guys… “verrückter Hund” is generally said in a tone of grudging admiration. It’s entirely undeserved in this case. I’d suggest “Knalltüte” instead. ;)
okay, but there is a little something (if only a very little) to the claim that some suicide bombers are foreign educated and atheist. Now hold on. The foreign educated part is certainly true of so many. For the second part, if you subtract out the Islamist like Hezballah (Party of God the name gives it away) and other obviously religiously inspired groups, you are left with a mix of leftist (as in socialist and well I know its a stretch from there to godless But.) Take groups like Fatah which made a splash for using women suicide bombers, a move that the (can we call it Islamic right?) found immoral. Don’t forget all the groups with a blank liberation front or people’s such in such in the title, that’s a red calling card, like the kurdish liberation front. John Q muslim will tell you that those groups don’t count. And while yes its like when my sister says catholics aren’t really Christians. There is a sort of stereotyping involved here… like saying all westerners are christians or america is a christian country. Okay, sorry about the political science lesson, carry on with the fundy bashing.
In the culural vernacular it more resembles “that guy is a mad dog” or “that dog-of-a-man is mad”.
ayup. pretty much the same usage here, and it’s very old, too.
@”coach”:
If your hero, Richard Dawkins, were put into a Junior High science class, even though you love his atheistic philosophy, I doubt very much you would want him for your children since he would be destroyed by the little ones.
dude, you KNOW you’ve been watching too much bad sci-fi when you start mistaking “Children of the Corn” for reality.
but there is a little something (if only a very little) to the claim that some suicide bombers are foreign educated and atheist
now all you have to do is show us that there were actual SUICIDE bombers that were educated in the West to begin to support your hypothesis.
good luck.
OTOH, You might have an easier time providing plenty of non-local educated folks who UTILIZE suicide bombers, as any educated person knows exactly how easy it is to manipulate the credulous.
We do it here, too.
wow, hooch is crazy.
That crazed creationist crud
if you’re speaking of Wells, you need to be more accurate, all the better to put even more fear into the hearts of xian morons like our fine “coach”, in short, you need to reword that to:
That crazed creationist MOONIE crud.
yes, that’s right coach, the guy YOU admire is a moonie.
How’s that make you feel?
Sometimes I wonder if the cult of personality around Richard Dawkins is really just another myth propagated by the right wing as a means of dismissing atheists as just more faith-heads…
What’s worse is I’ve seen atheists do it against other atheists as a means to criticise any argument on religion. It’s like the use of politically correct all over again.
It’s like the use of politically correct all over again.
correct.
I mean, er, exactly.
*zing*
“The Islamic terrorists aren’t actually Muslim–they are all foreign-educated Darwinist atheists. That includes Osama bin Laden.”
Cilgun! (loco) alhamdulillah!
Please pass the wasabi, wahabi kemosabe ;)
PZ for guvner!
Ichthyic:
“ayup. pretty much the same usage here, and it’s very old, too.”
ayup. rabies bad. it infect nicest people.
Ichthyic most of the 9/11 terrorist were educated in the west. City planning degrees in Germany seems to be a huge suicide bomber draw. They must have trouble putting those degrees to use.
The making of a fundamentalist darwinist atheist :
The bottom line is this, Myers wants to wreck careers and lives and is setting up a single issue as the lone requirement for people to teach. – coacholson@85.
You’re a liar. An understanding of science is not claimed by PZ Myers, or anyone else I know of, to be the “lone requirement” for people to teach.
You’re also a moron. The USA is full of creationist halfwits like you, many of them teachers, and scores lower than almost any other rich country on its children’s educational achievements. This is not a coincidence.
And calling you a liar and a moron is literal truth, not metaphor.
“Uh, wait — how does the publisher profit off books that are given away?”
“The secret is volume!”
And the volume goes to eleven!
Sure. I didn’t say he cooperated all the time. AFAIK he wanted to “get even” with the churches “after Final Victory™”.
And calling you a liar and a moron is literal truth, not metaphor.
which also makes it not an ad-hominem.
previous experience suggests that the person you are responding to would be very likely to claim it was, so I just thought I would cut off one more potential bit of inanity.
Ichthyic most of the 9/11 terrorist were educated in the west.
touche’
still, I trust you recognize the point I was making.
With Palin,religion and religious views so in the news these days, I’m wondering what you all think about this. I came across this interesting site, opposingviews.com the other day while doing some research on religion and its place in politics.
It’s a site where there are numerous interesting debates on all sorts of subjects that are on everyone’s mind. The debate that specifically captured my attention is the one asking whether Intelligent Design has merit. I do like the idea that their debaters are not simply average people giving their opinions, but all are experts in their chosen fields.
The point of view that really got to me though, is the one from the Ayn Rand Institute in which they call ID a supposedly non-religious theory, and a crusade to peddle religion by giving it the veneer of science. They use words like it is metaphysical marijuana intended to draw students away from scientific explanations and get them hooked on the supernatural. I’d like to place my comment there, but I’d really like to get some input from you before doing so. Here’s the specific debate I’d like to comment on. http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/it-s-bait-and-switch Thanks so much.
jadehawk #76
I think I am labeled a “Troll” because I happen to disagree with PZ Myers. Oh how terrible that I don’t grovel at the feet of the one you all seem to worship. Have fun with each other as all of you are like the “Limbaugh Ditto heads” only from the other extreme. I really feel sorry for you.
The civilized people I know that are evolutionists and my friends and teach with are pragmatists who can see the big picture. I repeat, that PZ has no studies that “prove” his assertion that teachers that believe in ID are inferior. He is a bully and mean spirited. If anyone that was conservative made his comments about atheists instead, PZ would be all over it. All of you just give him a pass and defend him. Well I think it is therapeutic for you all to vent at someone that is not in your club and you can unload your frustrations. Have fun!
You’re funny, Olson. So, a teacher who teaches biology, but it so mind-bogglingly ignorant of the field that he or she is a creationist is somehow equally qualified to teach it as one who actually understands the topic?
johnwall@112,
No-one sane could possibly have the slightest interest in what the dingbats at the Ayn Rand Institute say. I suggest you consult a good psychiatrist.
The civilized people I know
LOL
you’re funny.
RICHARD DAWKINS SEEMS TO HAVE CAUGHT THE HOOK!
Harun Yahya’s including a picture of a model insect alongside a fossil caddis fly in his Atlas of Creation was an excellent thing from his point of view. The insect, a model of which appears in the Atlas, is in any case still living today. Living specimens are identical in appearance to the model. There are pictures of the living insect all over the internet. There is also no such picture in other editions of the book, and original pictures of the insect are provided instead. Dawkins seized in this as an error and published it on his web site. In the wake of that, various newspapers and websites that imagined this to be a great discovery immediately carried the report on Dawkins’ web site. The fact is, however, that contrary to what Dawkins thinks, the issue is not one that works against Harun Yahya. The Atlas of Creation was about how an insect living today, pictures of which can be obtained from a great many sites on the internet, has never changed over the last 25 million years. THANKS TO DAWKINS, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE NOW VISITED THE ATLAS OF CREATION WEB SITE, AND HAVE LEARNED HOW THIS ORGANISM HAS REMAINED UNCHANGED FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS.