My library doesn’t subscribe to this journal, but maybe yours does. Can anyone send me a pdf of this paper?
Mather JA, Anderson RC 2007) Ethics and invertebrates: a cephalopod perspective. Dis Aquat Organ. 75(2):119-29.
This paper first explores 3 philosophical bases for attitudes to invertebrates, Contractarian/Kantian, Utilitarian, and Rights-based, and what they lead us to conclude about how we use and care for these animals. We next discuss the problems of evaluating pain and suffering in invertebrates, pointing out that physiological responses to stress are widely similar across the animal kingdom and that most animals show behavioral responses to potentially painful stimuli. Since cephalopods are often used as a test group for consideration of pain, distress and proper conditions for captivity and handling, we evaluate their behavioral and cognitive capacities. Given these capacities, we then discuss practical issues: minimization of their pain and suffering during harvesting for food; ensuring that captive cephalopods are properly cared for, stimulated and allowed to live as full a life as possible; and, lastly, working for their conservation.
I suspect the reasons for my interest would be obvious.
Thanks, all, it is now in my hands.
Is this it? Looks to be open access.
http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao_oa/d075p119.pdf
It took 6 minutes from posting to show that not only someone had a copy but that it is freely available. Times like this the information age awes me.
It isn’t times. PZ just knows how to use his army. Soon we’ll be getting requests to come by his place and move his couch across town. And you know what? Somebody will do it.
re: 2
Yup.
Google Scholar finds papers like this very quickly.
(scans paper)
Wow – the ethics of using cephalopods as animal subjects for research!
Guilt-free calamari, anyone?
I must point out that the true and appropriate work for invertebrates is to make shells, die, and end up in a stratigraphic column so some poor benighted geologist can fix a date to it millions of years from now. Cephalopods don’t really cut it.
Brilliant idea, Tatarize. I need my garage cleaned out, and there are a few light carpentry jobs that need to be done around the place. Volunteers?
Next time, PZ, may I suggest that you contact your university’s library? I’m sure they have an interlibrary loan department that would be delighted to help you.
Really. I’m being sincere, here. No snarkiness.
yeah. As much as I admire and am beholden to our interlibrary loan people (a lot! really!), they don’t respond with a pdf in 6 minutes.
Not having an army, or an academic affiliation, let me try to ride on PZ’s coattails and ask if anyone has access to a journal called “Nutrition and Health”. It’s not open access, as far as I’ve found, and not in too many university libraries, certainly not the one here. There’s a couple articles I’d like to get from it for my web site. If anyone can and would help me out with this, please contact me either at the email my name is linked to, or the email on the feedback mailto at the bottom of each page of my site (that link is here too).
BTW, I see it’s just the web site link the name gives you. Didn’t know that when I posted the comment above. Still, the email is listed there.
/It isn’t times. PZ just knows how to use his army. Soon
/we’ll be getting requests to come by his place and move
/his couch across town. And you know what? Somebody will do
/it.
I see PZ using his powers for good. Maybe he’ll set up an underground fighting ring in his basement. The first rule of Cephalopods is to not talk about Cephalopods!
Soon we’ll be getting requests to come by his place and move his couch across town.
Bring a large crew and a flatbed truck.
PZ, I’d be interested in a summary once you’re done, if you’re interested in posting it.
I second that. Now you’ve sparked my interest…
I need my garage cleaned out, and there are a few light carpentry jobs that need to be done around the place. Volunteers?
I’ll bring my own hammer and stop in next time I drive across Minnesota. Of course, turn about is fair play — I need help with cleaning out my cellar here in Massachusetts. Or do I not quite have the concept of “minion” straight?
Yes, I’ll put up a summary sometime…today, though, I have to set it aside. Today is the deadline for my Seed column, so I’ll be going a bit single-minded for a while to finish that up.
Re QazyQat #9: looks like a couple of copyright violations in the offing here. Without an academic affiliation, it’s going to be difficult, IMO, to claim fair use. But…IANAL.
Cephalopods don’t really cut it.
#5: What a remarkably ignorant comment.
Can a squid or an octopus think?
Is there thought in a cuttlefish wink?
Human rights are now given,
They’ve so long been scriven–
A quite diff’rent way to use ink!
There are documents any can cite–
Oh the power of language and might–
Though you may find it strange
Think of how things might change
If a cuttlefish only could write!
Without an academic affiliation, it’s going to be difficult, IMO, to claim fair use.
I’m sure there’s a violation involved in anyone sending anyone else a copy of a journal article. Whether one or both of them are academics doesn’t matter. In the use of an article, and in quoting a part of it, which is what Fair Use refers to, it also doesn’t matter whether one is an academic. So yes, I’m afraid that what I am asking would be a violation, just as PZ’s request would have been had it not turned out to be an open access publication. Didn’t stop him from making it when he thought it wasn’t open access, did it? :)
These things happen.
Ne’er are we too busy,
To do something for PZ.
Btw-I’m a fish-only Adventist.Am I helping the
little (not vertebrate) guys ?
Oh, hi to the guy from aquaticape.org, like your site. I got into an argument with Algis Kuliakis on richardawkins.net a while ago, your site was helpful in letting me know what to expect :) Can’t say the argument progressed very far, and he pulled every single one of the fast ones you mentioned.
Thanks, Stephen. I’m glad it was helpful. I missed the last part of that dawkins.net thread when I went on a trip last summer, but it was pretty clear it wasn’t going anywhere much by then. Actually, I was disappointed to see how poor some of the argumentation was there; I expected more from dawkins fans (altho I’m sure the site attratcs many non fans as well).
I’ll totally be your handyman PZ. Maybe your trophy wife will make me some lemonade ;)
This topic often comes up in my classes — do things that aren’t superficially a lot like me feel pain? — so I’ll have to check this out.
Not being a comparative neurobiologist, I always tell students that every animal I’ve ever worked with (even sessile things like anemones) recoils from things that we would think of as painful, and that should tell us something, though I can’t say precisely what. But if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck… I do know that injury is not a good thing for any organism, pretty much by definition (beasts like male spiders that that allow themselves to be eaten in order to inseminate females notwithstanding). Then the question becomes: Is the injury you inflict on other organisms really worth it scientifically, nutritionally, etc., and how do you judge?
PraDeep #11
“I see PZ using his powers for good…”
So, Obi Wan – is PZ Aniken or Luke? :)
By the way, Pz.. [i]I[/] am your father!
This sounds a little bit like a conversation I was having earlier today. A friend of mine and I were talking about animal communication, and I was asked what I thought about it. I know, you may be asking, “what does animal communication have to do with animal’s feeling pain?” Patience people, I’m getting to that. I feel that animals (not just those crazy humans) are able to communicate more than people might give them credit for. Whether or not they process things in the same way as we do is certainly debatable. But just because their processing or their perception is different than ours doesn’t make it any less significant (I’m not sure if significant is the word I want there, but I’m not quite sure exactly how I want to express it). Anyway, back to pain. Just because an animal doesn’t process pain the same way we do such as thinking, “ouch, that really fucking hurts” doesn’t mean that they don’t feel pain. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t it be seriously maladaptive to not have some kind of response to a stimulus that is potentially detrimental to the animal? WEll, I think I’m officially rambling, and it’s quite possible that I’m way out of my depth here, so I’m going to go back to hiding under the rock I call my dorm room. If any of you made it this far – thanks for taking the time to read, and I’m sorry if your head now hurts. Oh, and if I’ve stated anything horribly insane, please feel free to point it out, and possibly tear it a new one as only pharyngula readers can.
-Michael
I don’t know the case law too much, but it’s my understanding that there is at least some reason to think that giving a full copy of an article to someone for educational use is considered fair use, as it’s not “republished.” It’s fairly clear that not all publishers accept this interpretation of “fair use,” but, while I know of cases of publishers raising objections, I don’t know of any tests of this in court. I do know that re-publishing is not allowed, so putting the PDF on a public website is more questionable than emailing the PDF privately, just as xeroxing an article to hand out to your students is OK, but putting it into a book that is published can’t be done without permission.
As far as I know, “educational” is not limited to academic institutions; educating the general public, for example, can still be educational, as in a science museum, or quite possibly even some bozo giving a sophomoric lecture to their ignorant drinking buddies.
If anyone knows of actual case law on this, though, I’d be curious.
Of course, you can find random legal boilerplate that says this is not the case, but you can also find lawyers wanting to sue people who make that boilerplate on the grounds that it’s misrepresenting the law and claiming rights that the publisher doesn’t actually have. (I think this came up recently in those warnings from sports franchises that suggest that you can’t record them on a VCR, even though the betamax decision said you can, at least within some limits.)