Zeno makes an obvious point: creationists have no sense of humor. He singles out this tedious comic strip running on the Answers in Genesis pages, called CreationWise, and of course when anyone thinks of an unfunny religious apologist with a strip, they think of Johnny Hart. But even worse than any of these is Dan Nuckols. Seriously, if you enjoy cartoons, if you have any sense of humor or even an appreciation of the skill it takes to put together an amusing story in a few panels, don’t follow that link; it’s like snorting ammonia, it’ll ruin the flavor of everything for a few days.
Zeno does point out that sometimes they are inadvertently funny, in ways the artist doesn’t intend. This strip doesn’t make any sense from a religious perspective, but it is mildly amusing if you imagine someone like me behind the door.
Nah, it’s not particularly funny even then. Just true.
OK, since Blake hinted at it, here’s a link to his improved version of the cartoon.
I can’t seem to find my creationist glasses anywhere. What is this cartoon supposed to be suggesting?
I don’t get it. Like, at all.
Anyone?
I should have listened… gah, that was horrible.
Christian humour seems about as bad as Christian rock-music.
They were damned awful – caricatures in every sense, but really bad ones.
I hate to pile on, but can someone explain the attempt at humor in the strip for those of us who just don’t get it?
Now if the joke were actually about snorting ammonia … well, that’d be funny.
A 1% concentration of ammonia in air is immediately fatal.
I don’t think the artist is trying to be funny at all, and that’s the problem with these strips — they can’t put down the stick they’re trying to beat the believers with long enough to make a joke. The meaning of the strip is simple: it’s a warning that if you open the door to accepting an old earth, a monster will eat you and your bible will be shredded. It’s intent isn’t to make you laugh, it’s to make you fear.
I think it’s that the idea of millions of years of history chews up and spits out the bible while devouring the Christian – it’s just not funny, informed, thought out or clever.
As for the fact that it’s generally true – I do find that pretty funny.
I suppose it’s less humor than a warning – “Don’t even think about opening the door to an old-earth, or it may destroy you and tear up the Bible.”
Well said, PZ.
Thanks, PZ, for the explanation.
But I know plenty of Christians who are not as backward as the AiG people and understand science. So, where are the monsters?
It’s intent isn’t to make you laugh, it’s to make you fear.
It made me laugh, but I play Call of Cthulhu.
Looks like they failed their sanity check.
Oh, that’s a Bible! I suppose I should have gotten that, but it’s so early in the morning and the strip is so darned small that I can barely make out any detail except for a guy being devoured by a purple octopus-like creature.
I think that the cartoon is not aimed at us “Darwinists”; it’s aimed at the Old Earth Creationist/Intelligent Design crowd.
Look at it this way: If the Earth is only 6000 years old, then only some sort of special creation can explain the world we see. But once you accept the true age of the Universe, the argument for divine creation becomes impotent.
The age of the universe and the nature of life are connected. I gotta give the YECs credit for realizing that Old Earth Creationism is an untenable position. (I’ve long thought that the reason more Americans don’t accept evolution is an inability to comprehend very large numbers.)
What the cartoon is saying is that once you accept that life has existed for millions of years, Genesis goes out the door. So, like PZ says, the cartoon is “just true.”
After PZ’s explanation I think I prefer just not “getting it”…..
Has anyone seen that “christian standup” featured in the Pelosi daughters HBO movie on crazy christians….?
Wow. I took a measly 15 minutes to type up my post, and got pipped by half a dozen folks, including our host. Next time, no proofreading.
The meaning of the strip is simple: it’s a warning that if you open the door to accepting an old earth, a monster will eat you and your bible will be shredded.
To quote Calvin and Hobbes, that’s a lesson that ought to be less applicable elsewhere in life.
I dunno… imagining PZ behind the door made me chuckle!
This guy is a huge nutter.
Somethingawful did photoshops of these sorts of Creationist comics where the only punchline seems to be “sin cursed world”.
http://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1357206
http://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1818822
Click on the cartoon and read some of the others in the series. You’ll notice something very interesting: most of them are criticisms of ID creationism. There is a lot of anger there directed at people who believe in a creator God but do not do so because they accept the literal interpretation of the book of Genesis.
The schism between AiG and the DI is really deep and vivid there.
I still don’t get it. Why did the monster spit out the Bible? Was the holiness too much for it to handle? Did it taste like old cabbage? Was he using it as bait for the next person to come along? Seems like it would make slightly more sense if only little scraps of paper came out instead of full pages.
And that is one more reason comment quality drops steadily on the more popular forums.
PZ said: “The schism between AiG and the DI is really deep and vivid there.”
Good! How many times have you heard that tired old creationist saw, “No two evolutionists can agree on idea x therefore evolution is all wrong”? Perhaps it’s time to use their own bulldung arguments against th…
Ah, no… forget I said that.
I guess integrity is kind of important.
Zeno: (That’s why the artist drew in “Ha!” several times, so that we would understand.) Now, that made me laugh.
I don’t get it. Like, at all. Anyone?
It’s funny, see, because they’re watching surgery while eating Chinese food. Oh, wait…that was Buckaroo Bonsai. Sorry.
The only thing that I could think of when I read this was…
“CANDYGRAM!”
(C’mon, someone ELSE besides me has to have remembered the Land Shark.)
i think we are only getting half of this cartoon title… shouldn’t it be:
creation wise, reality foolish
?
The linked comic made me think of a quip by Raquel Welch on receiving an award that she had been waiting “since One Million Years, B.C.” It’s not even a very memorable quote (so I don’t know why it stuck in my mind) but it makes her look like a comedic genius in comparison.
I just imagine that it’s PZ’s office and that his pet octopus tank is close enough to the door to take out annoyances such at the one above.
Completely unfunny, but I have to admit I liked his drawing. Too bad he wastes it with crappy material.
“Oh, that’s a Bible!”
Of course it is. What other books are there? ;-)
I now wonder whether religious people understand that comics are supposed to be funny. It’s possible that when they look at comics we would laugh at (or at least faintly grin at) they would not get that it’s funny, that it would only infuriate them. They may see comics the way the USSR saw posters — not to inform anybody, just to put your propaganda out there.
It may be that we don’t see their work as funny because it wasn’t meant to be funny. We’ll never get the joke if there’s no joke.
It may be that they laugh at things they find offensive and assume that’s what everybody does. To them, laughter is a forceful way of insulting people.
There’s nothing funny about an omniscient, omnipotent, and ineffable super-being whom we all must love and worship. That’s what hamstrings them from the get-go.
“I believe in ID. This way I can believe in a creator without having to believe the Bible”. woah ! they clearly want to start a war, do they ?
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftaghn!
That is all.
“A 1% concentration of ammonia in air is immediately fatal.”
I didn’t inhale…
The meaning of the strip is simple: it’s a warning that if you open the door to accepting an old earth, a monster will eat you and your bible will be shredded.
Wow. I was right off. I thought he was saying: randy tenacled monsters have a thing for fundies thinking of leaving the YEC camp. Doubt, and you will be hauled into a closet and ravished, Dream of the Fisherman’s Wife-style, by an amorous creature from the deep…
And when you find you enjoy that sort of thing, presumably, you’ll happily toss your now-rather-superfluous copy of the bible, shortly after the encounter has begun… ‘I don’t need this anymore… I’ve found love!’
My mistake.
Mebbe a few ‘ha’s would have made it clearer. Or something.
10 PRINT (“WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT ABOUT?”)
20 GOTO 10
I didn’t get it at first, either.
For those who couldn’t read the small print, the pages being “spat out” in the last panel are Genesis. So the message, such as it is, may include the idea that the monster of Old Earth viewpoints can’t “digest” Genesis – that is, they’re incompatible, and Old Earth viewpoints (OEC and Evo) necessarily reject the literal foundation of Biblical truth, and are therefore false. Oh yeah, and that the Truth of Genesis can’t be destroyed, not even by this formidable monster. Oh yeah, and that anyone who even considers the validity of Old Earth will be mauled and eaten by the many-tentacled monster of the
broom closetdeep, which represents the multi-faceted slimy inhuman monster of evilutionist and secularist lies. Oh yeah, and that the slimy monster or eviliutionist and secularist lies, like all deep-sea cephalopods, is probably from Minnesota.Hey, this “interpretation” game is fun! How about the one where the scientist, blindly peering into his microscope, stumbles into a church, only to find that his microscope has become a crucifix and that he can no longer see what he was studying, and as he falls to his knees his face breaks into a beatific smile? Now THAT’s humor. I can’t imagine what the message is, though.
Bat-squeeze crazy christians: they don’t know funny.
On a tangental note, I can’t understand why people bother uploading these postage stamp-sized strips. You see this all the time with dinosaur comics being put on the web (as distinct from webcomics that started there).
I have a basic 17″ monitor at 1280*1024, I can only imagine that on a nice larger-than-standard screen such strips are completely indistinct.
I always assumed it was some bizarre paranoia that worried people would reprint the strips in local papers or something without paying.
On the one hand, these comics are about as ejoyable as this 3 year old Christmas Hershey’s Kiss I once ate.
On the other hand, the fact that these comics were scripted specifically to be thinly veiled insults against AiG’s enemies, and not to be humorous at all, well…
Were these people just born with overactive hypocrite and stupidity glands, or did they take special drugs to get this way?
Anyone remember that AiG bit with the kid pointing a gun at the viewer, saying that if you don’t matter to god, you don’t matter to anyone? Something like that? Apparently that wasn’t just a one-off.
According to AiG, the choice is clear: accept biblical literalism or you’ll get the sword. No, really. It’s the bible turning into a sword, and a warning, “which end of it are you on?” How do these people manage to stay in business?
Click on the cartoon and read some of the others in the series. You’ll notice something very interesting: most of them are criticisms of ID creationism. There is a lot of anger there directed at people who believe in a creator God but do not do so because they accept the literal interpretation of the book of Genesis. The schism between AiG and the DI is really deep and vivid there.
Yes, it is. It actually scares me. I take it very seriously.
As disgusted as I get with the Discovery Institute and the ID folks, and as much as I fear their right-wing religious agenda, I also fear for them because of this growing anger in the creationist movement. I saw this anger 20 years ago with “scientific creationism” and I see it now, and it’s stronger now. Young people in my church youth group expressed vehement anger that anyone did not believe a literal interpretation of Genesis and they scared me then, and I see it all over today and it scares me now. I actually mentioned this to DaveScot, I am so alarmed. It is not I who wishes anyone harm. There is a fight for power inside the so-called big tent of ID that I fear will get ugly and I don’t think Dembski sees it.
Many conservatives are virtually humorless. Fundies have little or no humor, and what little they have is severely stunted. They often seem stuck in their infantile poopy joke phase. I wonder if a developmental humor deficit is causal or simply correlated here. And would early intervention in the form of humor training help? Emphasize the basics. Drill the kid on slapstick at first, and try to train the kid toward appreciating satire.
As commented above, Christian rock sucks. Christian humor sucks. Fundies usually dress without much style. They read dumbed down books. They aren’t much fun at parties. Is a Fundy just a developmentally stunted person with appallingly bad taste?
Maybe they read the Bible literally because they can’t think abstractly. Can we start putting them in functional MRIs and see how their brains are broken? Do you think they’d mind? We could tell them we were conducting experiments to prove that prayer works.
That reminds me, Kristine…
In light of how these “comics” are just thinly veiled critiquing insults against ID, has anyone bothered to point out to the nice people at AiG about how the Bible ostensibly says “he who claims to know the light but hates his brother is a liar”?
grendelkhan :
I guess you don’t live in the US. In America, crazy politicians and activists are constantly telling us If you don’t support our agenda, the Terrorists / Drug Dealers / Communists / Atheists / Homosexuals / Whatever will get you! And for the most part, these people are wildly successful. I think of it as ‘boogey-man politics’ . It’s very popular here.
Many of these comics work as reductio ad absurdum arguments against religion. I.e., if you buy into any of this, then you better accept the whole ball of wax http://www.answersingenesis.org/CreationWise/CW_Pages/0405.asp
llewelly: I do live in the US, but usually people who say things like that out loud tend to get the cold shoulder. You have to use codewords and dogwhistles nowadays–you can’t just start going on about how you want to take the sword to nonbelievers. At least, I thought so.
AJ Milne (#37):
Superb.
Reading through some of these comics just hurts my brain. I feel dumber for it.
Re: #43
Kristine, wow. That’s a very good point. Which reminds me that when I think of Christianity, often the first word that pops into my head is “schizm.”
Maybe the cartoonist had a vision of PZ behind the door as he drew it…..
OK, Bronze Dog could have done better, but for a quick hack job, maybe this isn’t so bad.
Thanks, AJ Milne — if gratitude is the appropriate emotion. . . .
Heh. The after-abduction off-camera dialogue (trying not to give it away) was a very nice touch. And you’re welcome.
I like to think of that as the PZ-household version of this.
God botherers knocking on the door on a Saturday morning.
“Hello, have you considered letting Jebus into your….*URK!*”
You guys should know better than to temp the wrath of creationist cartoonists. After all, the last time this happened, we learned that people were once 12 feet tall, and that (if we doubted that this was possible), we should ask about Pygmies + Dwarfs, and that our ancestors of large stature were undeniable proof of the Biblical creation.
I really don’t want to have to face another devastating argument like that!
Not written for this week’s events, but this entry show how they think about things like that.
This joke wasn’t even funny or interesting when it was used on Star Trek!
Confession: this cartoon gave me a nice warm fuzzy feeling. It even made me crack a completely unironic chuckle. Of course, the cartoonist probably didn’t mean for it to be about hot gay tentacle lovin’, but I’m going with the interpretation that makes me happy.
“This joke wasn’t even funny or interesting when it was used on Star Trek!”
On the other hand, the sword-in-a-book gag was actually worth a chuckle when used in the 300th Simpson’s episode: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Arms_of_the_Ma
For those who stopped watching back when it was still good, this episode had a throwaway opening in which Rainer Wolfcastle is auctioning off his belongings, and shows Bart how everything is actually a concealed sword (even if a sword with a sword instead if I recall correctly). The bible-into-sword comic linked above immediately brought that scene to mind.
this is a perfect example of what does, and does not, make a cartoonist. Drawing is hardly essential- some of the best cartoonists ever were mediocre artists. The real skill comes in encapsulating setup, story, and punchline with pictures and a few words. These “cartoons” are long-winded diatribes with pictures.
kurage:
Me too.
If we’re voting for inadvertently funny, my pick is “sin cursed world” (After Eden) linked by C.
http://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1357206
The comic at the top, which I assume is unaltered, is indistinguishable from parody. If anyone knows “Tom the Dancing Bug”, imagine putting it in one of the “super fun-pak” strips
http://www.salon.com/comics/boll/2007/04/05/boll/index1.html
I would look at it, chuckle, and move on without thinking it could possibly be intended seriously.
This is semi-ontopic; I’ve been trying to collect a blogroll of good skeptic and nerd-flavored cartoons/comics.
So far I have (in no particular order) My [Confined] Space; Jesus and Mo; Saint Gasoline; The Pain — When Will it End?; Monkey Fluids; XKCD; The Perry Bible Fellowship; and Married to the Sea, as well as a “live” link to Freethunk!.
Anyone know of others that are worth the read?
Oh, and I’ve got some blasphemous stuff myself (put out to commemorate Easter) in the “Comics” tab on my page. I think I’ll be doing more with Holy Toast Eucharist; it’s just so rich with satirical possibilities.
To Warren: One comic I enjoy is http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=792#comic
“Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal.” Its alot like Far Side. Currently, my favorite panel is the one with the hostages:
“Calm down–just tell us what you want, and we’ll try to make it happen!”
“I desire nothing! HAHAHAHAHAH!”
“Ugh. I hate it when the Dalai Lama takes hostages.
I kinda actually like this one: http://www.answersingenesis.org/CreationWise/CW_Pages/CWgenesisTale.asp
Once upon a time… indeed
oh, I thought the wise old cephalopod just couldn’t swallow all that and spit it out…
As Homer Simpson said repeatedly while reading Far Side cartoons: “I don’t get it”.
I don’t get it either.
But at least http://www.monkeyfluids.com is back (and has a new evolution themed cartoon up now).
Someone at my workplace took down all my Tom the Dancing Bug “God Man” strips I’d pinned up on my cubie wall.
Which is sort of confusing, given that a story that involves a omnipotent deity going back in time and waiting for millions of years for Darwin to evolve so he can thwart evolution is going to be funny to everyone, atheist and deist!
“As commented above, Christian rock sucks. Christian humor sucks. Fundies usually dress without much style. They read dumbed down books. They aren’t much fun at parties. Is a Fundy just a developmentally stunted person with appallingly bad taste?”
It’s also my experience that their taste in art sucks as well; all the fundies that I used to work with thought that Thomas Kinkade was the epitome of fine art. If you look at their discussion threads, (don’t ask, long story) you also see lots of pseudo-folk artsy puppies, kittens, rainbows, cutesy anthropomorphized livestock and, of course, crosses and anglicized jebuses in the avatars.
Blake –
Now that’s some fine cartooning!
kurage:
Thanks! I keep hoping PZ will update the post with a link. . . .
Baratos — thanks! That’s GREAT!
Many thanks, Prof. Myers. :-)
PZ,
You had posted a parody of the Jack Chick series of the encounter between the bio teacher and the student – where the bio teacher makes the creationist moron look silly. Where can I find it on your archives? Thanks!
I only Wish it had been like snorting ammonia! that would’ve been a rush at least. Mssr. Nuckels is more akin to eating cardboard. bland and fiber-ey.
oops: Nuckols
dan nuchols- it’s like snorting ammonia
agreed, i looked at his monkeys cuz strips ..gawd that was BAD
Believers still taste good, but the Bible has gone off.
According to our million-year-old tentacled overlords.
Actual humor is (among other things) a way to get some perspective on things that are just too screwy to take seriously. Both fundies, and the kooks who travel with them, show a notorious lack of perspective…. Absolutism, binary thinking, and rigidity are a basic part of their worldview. So they fear and hate anything that dares to put their Holy Words into a more realistic perspective.