First commentator to tie the Virginia Tech shootings to Muslims, without a lick of evidence: Debbie Schlussel. And if it isn’t connected in any way to Islamic terrorism?
Even if it does not turn out that the shooter is Muslim, this is a demonstration to Muslim jihadists all over that it is extremely easy to shoot and kill multiple American college students.
She’ll connect it anyway.
The killer was Chinese. With the anticipated satisfaction, Schlussel sees that as a vindication — kick out all the foreign students!
People will jump at any excuse to discuss their talking points.
Right. If all you have is a hammer (and a bad one at that), everything looks like a nail.
Well I’ll be hornswaggled!
Ann Coulter can reproduce, after all!
This is the same woman of Paula Zahn NOW infamy. I can hardly believe she found a way to sink lower.
I’m ashamed to see she’s a University of Michigan graduate. Ugh.
Disgusting. And unlike Don Imus, she will get away with this shameful nonsense.
Yes, I’m sure that the terrorists who hadn’t figured out that it’s easy to shoot unarmed flocks of people are now much, much more dangerous than they were yesterday.
Oh my god. I hope they don’t figure out that it’s also easy to blow up people riding city busses and hanging around in public places either. That would be terrible.
What is so hard about waiting for evidence ? This is despicable. No good can possibly come from doing this.
I remember seeing Debbie Schlussel on Politically Incorrect ( before Bill Maher got canned by the simpering weenies at ABC). I was utterly baffled at how a person could be so consistently stupid and clueless on every single point. You’d be better off consulting the Bush Twins on matters of social and political analysis.
Is she complaining that American students aren’t as well armed as those attending Baghdad U? That Muslim students in general carry their AKs with them to class? The stupid hurts so bad…
I am flabbergasted, disgusted, sickened, shocked…
Dang, some of my own family members are “young Asian males;” some of them weren’t even born in this country (GASP!).
You can safely assume that, even given the chance, I won’t invite Debbie to coffee one day.
(I’m a 48 year old not-Asian male. We don’t all think like Debbie.)
Disgusting.
This seems to be a priority amongst a section of the right wing. Establish a Muslim/immigrant connection and then call for punitive measures against brown people.
Last I checked “Asian” meant “Japanese or Chinese” to most people’s minds in the US. I think if the shooter had been identifiably Arabian or Pakistani, he would have been identified as such. Certainly not as “Asian”.
What an utterly useless waste of $15 worth of chemicals. Both the shooter and Debbie Schlussel.
The first ad on the side-bar of the google ads on her website is for dog stress relievers – very apropos for this twatwaffle.
The sad thing is, if the shooter DOES turn out to be Muslim, there’ll be no convincing her that her initial response was not justified.
Hmm, now that I think about it, there’ll be no convincing her of that either way.
Ergh. In using the word ‘Asian’ as a descriptive adjective I don’t think that the officers were trying to infer anything regarding the nature of the motive or the persons religions affiliations. Making that assumption is outrageous. Implications like that should be left up to FOX News and FOX News only… duh…
One news report this morning said it was this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morva
…and Wikipedia agreed briefly, but they both dropped it pretty quickly.
If that pans out, do we put all the white loners in concentration camps?
My fellow man makes me embarrassed for my gender when he pees allover the restroom toilet seat.
My fellow Mmerrikkan embarrasses me with their 9th century Dark Ages reactionary caveman retardedness.
I’m surprised I can keep food down, these last 8 years.
She has her timing down pat. Now’s the only time she can safely speculate. If she waits any longer, they might reveal it was some pasty white guy. And if it turns out to be a muslim, he voice will get lost in the following shitstorm.
They’re already sharpening both talking point. If it was a white-bread american, it means nothing at all and it’s Hollywood’s fault. If it wasa muslim, they’re all subhuman muderers and interment camps is too good for tem!!
Firstly I would like to extend my sympathies to the families and students who are suffering as a result of this action.
Secondly, it didn’t even occur to me that the shooter would be a specific religion or that the actions would be either politically or religiously motivated.
I was a bit shocked that the media would automatically go for the most controversial explanation possible, but then, the media, whores that they are, never fail to disappoint me.
Whatever you do, don’t read the comments on Schlussel’s site. Your brain will explode.
Nicely played, though–heads, she wins; tails, we lose.
As A Virginia resident I hope its an American psycho but after the last few years, Langley(3 dead), 911(the pentagon), DC Snipers, our state is simply waiting for the next muslim linked attack. The latest report is the guy was asian. Whatever that may mean. Virginia killers usually are poor stupid frustrated men and women who loose it. Mass murder here is rare and usually committed by the government in connection with coal mining or civil unrest. William Morva was an escaped killer whom murdered two people this spring.
I made the mistake of flipping through the AM dial to listen to the press conference with the campus police chief. What I got instead was Michael Savage blaming what he called a slow police response on the hands-tying rules of engagement crafted by “liberal ACLU vermin.”
I don’t know about this post it seems to give an ignorant bloger an aweful lot publicity. It is not like she is the new york times or something. Yes what she says is stupid and dispicable, and shows how totally myopic these rightwingers are, but should PZ really give her all this fame?
The idea that Pakistanis are called Asian is laughable, and just shows how inward looking the US is. There has been at least one shooting incident with an Asian before (if it turns out to be an Asian) the suggestion then was that a significant number of Asian parents really drive their kids hard educationally, some crack.
appalling!
Wait and see – next time there’s a major hit & run incident perpetrated by someone of vaguely asian/arab descent they’ll be flagging that as a ‘sign to jihadists of another way to kill innocent American commuters’
I’d like to say I’m astounded by this… but sadly, I’m not!
Tony
Well, well, well…I am not surprised anymore by a person who wrote that being a Michael Jackson or a soccer fan! implies that one “hates America and loves terror”
I would never usually give her site any more time than necessary, but I just had to comment on there about her use of the word “Paki”. In the UK this is considered extremely racist – is this also the case in the US? I know Bush used it in a speech but that’s hardly an indicator.
You just know that Ann Coulter’s fuming mad about someone getting out ahead of her hatred. Probably Rush, O’Reilly and the savage Wiener too. Of course not all the evidense is in and there’s plenty of new opportunuty for the truly twisted.
How long before one of the hate parade grand marshals link this with John Edward’s hair, Hillary’s Arkansas Drug & Slave Trade Mafia connections and/or the mad atheists.
What fucktwits.
You know it’s amazing how many people want to jump on racial profiling… until it comes to this. No doubt that’s because STATISTICALLY the individual who goes into a school or business and starts shooting is a young white (Anglo-Saxon) male.
Oddly, that’s a profile that never gets made… when it’s a “white American” doing the shooting, then things are merely “unpredictable”.
Man, if I was her kid, I’d be shooting places up left and right just to vent my anger at having such a retarded mother.
Well spotted VancouverBrit #27
In the UK, ‘paki’ is about on a par with using the N-word. If it were just short for Pakistani it might not be that troubling- but ‘paki’ is used for just about anyone of Asian descent in a derogatory manner.
What’s the betting that the denizens of Uncommon Descent and the DI are looking for some reason to tag this guy as a ‘Darwinist’ and atheist?
I like the commenter who was claiming proof of a conspiracy by the fact that cops would be able to tell whether or not he was a Muslim instantly in spite of his wounds.
WHEN U R READING THIS DONT STOP OR SOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPEN MY NAME IS SUMMER I AM 15 YEARS OLD i have BLONDE HAIR , SCARS no NOSE OR EARS I AM DEAD IF U DONT COPY THIS JUS LIKE FROM THE RING COPY N POST THIS ON 5 MORE SITES OR I WILL APPEAR ONE CREEPY NIGHT WEN UR NOT ExPECTING IT BY YOUR BED WITH A NIFE AND KILL U THIS IS NO JOKE SUMMET ING GOOD WILL HAPPEN TO U IF YOU POST THIS ON 5 MORE FLASH BOXES
The word “Paki” is also on par with the N-word in Canada.
Just to put her “paki” quote in context.
From her blog
“* The murderer has been identified by law enforcement and media reports as “a young Asian male.”
* The Virginia Tech campus has a very large Muslim community, many of which are from Pakistan (per terrorism investigator Bill Warner).
* Pakis are considered “Asian.””
It doesnt look any better, does it ?
As a couple of posts earlier pointed out, to call someone a “Paki” in the UK or Ireland is equivalent to using the N-word to describe a black person.
Anyone doing so in public would be disgraced.
Isn’t this woman that silly anti-atheist bigot “I think they should just shut up” from CNN a few weeks back ?
Ah, but at least it’s a foreigner! Can’t trust that lot; they should never have let any of us in, apparently. Because it’s not like an American would shoot anyone.
The whole thing’s just sad, but Schlussel reminds us that nothing too unfortunate for reactionaries to try to make it worse.
She can’t wait for evidence because the liberal media will merely hide it all, of course. That’s one of the oddest things that I’ve found whenever I come to America. In the same nation where Fox is huge, Rush Limbaugh’s on radio all over the place, and Coulter’s despicable vitriol is successful, the media is not to be trusted because it’s too liberal, even when it’s telling you that liberals are traitors.
A Symptom of our “Chain Letter Society”?
Read an analysis of the influences in our “Chain Letter Society” that may be precipitating events like the tragedy at Virginia Tech and how our focus on winning and being number one may be fostering a generation of children with fully inadequate coping skills who have a misguided sense of self-worth…here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
In Australia we had a shooting just like this. What did we do, well we band all guns that could fire more then a few shots without reloading. We made it harder to own fire arms and we made strong laws about their storage. We even made laws that a persons firearms can be held if they are thought to be dangerous. That was ten years ago we have not had any shooting like it since. Gun death in Australia have dropped like a stone. I wonder what your fed gov will do?
From DS’s webpage
**** UPDATE #2: The shooter has now been identified as a Chinese national here on a student visa. Lovely. Yet another reason to stop letting in so many foreign students. ****
I hope today’s racist remarks from DS haunt her for the rest of her career. Let’s not forget this person.
MartinC #36
Yes she was-
and for all who don’t remember DS’s appearance discussing atheism on CNN
http://baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/2007/02/debbie-schlussel-you-ignorant-slu.html
I hate to admit that it gives me something of a warm glow to discover that this innocent little religionist who defends her faith on CNN against the nasty old atheists is in fact revealed to be a racist fascist. Who knew?
I have long thought that Ann Coulter is a very deliberate performer, amoral and fully aware of little inflammatory gesture she makes; it’s the job she’s chosen and the rubes pay her well for it. Debbie Schussel, however, is Coulter without the evil brain. Schussel is just amoeba-stupid and her manner is completely uncalculated because 1 + 1 is beyond her. When Schussel says something idiotic (which is absolutely all the time), it is the 24-carat genuine item.
When I first heard of this earlier today, it was on one of the cable news channels, probably CNN, and they were interviewing one of the wounded, a student in a class who was shot in one biceps. He saw a number of classmates shot, some very badly and some like him, and his teacher shot in the head. He and others somehow managed to shut the classroom door on the gunman and hold the door shut despite the gunman shooting through the door. He described the shooter as a male, probably Asian, and maybe in his 20’s. He didn’t recognize him. Like Warren I read the word “Asian” meaning someone of East Asian descent–Chinese, Korean, Japanese, or possibly Vietnamese. People whose ancestry lies in the Indian subcontinent or in Indonesia would almost certainly elicit a different adjective.
As for Schlussel, she’s rather be first than right with her analysis, and she’d much rather the explanation fit her preconceptions, e.g., a Muslim from the Middle East who snuck into the US illegally with a smuggled gun to attack the students at Virginia Tech in the name of Jihad.
I suspect the truth, based partly on that one witness I heard who described his assailant as Asian, is much more likely to be an American by choice who, having experienced some kind of devestating (to him at least) personal disaster, went out and bought one or two 9mm pistols with clips (it’s perfectly legal in Virginia) and sought to solve his problems through a hopelessly disconnected view of retribution. In other words the event is no more likely to be of foreign origin than Columbine.
I would note that the Oklahoma bombing was also on what we here in Massachusetts call Patriot’s Day, so that was my first thought.
But no matter what, Wingnuttia will be in full dudgeon. Lucky we.
That P. Zizzy guy who’s obsessed with squids has also written about Debbie Schlussel here:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/02/debbie_schlussel_might_become.php
Debbie Schlussel is a contemptible troll.
“Yet another reason to stop letting in so many foreign students.”
Of course. Let’s restrict the number of them, and make sure they’ll never go on homicidal rampages. Right-O, Debbie.
My heart aches for all those who lost their lives today at Virginia Tech, and for all the families whose loss today has to be excruciating. Insanity. No religion, no nationality holds a monopoly on insanity. I am grieving for those caught up in the madness of the killer’s life today. I am not grieving for Debbie S., however. She makes her own cesspool of hatred and deserves to swim in it. If she drowns in it, I will feel no remorse.
Stern used to have her on the show.
But I think she’s become so boringly predictable, it’s not worth it even for the comedic value.
Yeah, get rid of all those #$&*& foreigners, like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
Sadly, the sheer idiocy of people like Debbie Schlussel no longer shocks me. Fortunately, their baldfaced, ferocious cruelty still does shock me. I say “fortunately”, because the day that her level of cruelty fails to shock me any more, I’ll know I’ve lost my own humanity for keeps.
Yeah, we can fill up all the empty lab and medical center jobs with upstanding Americans like Terry Nichols and Eric Robert Rudolph. That’ll work.
There are a number of Muslim Chinese, among minority ethnic groups. I don’t say this for any reason other than to screw with the stereotypes, Chinese=Buddhist+Confucian, Middle Eastern=Muslim, that sort of nonsense. I don’t expect the shooter to turn out to have been Muslim, but wouldn’t Schlussel crow if he turned out to be.
But anyway she’s enormously patronizing in her stereotyping. Gee, I bet the Islamic jihadists didn’t know that it would be easy to kill a number of students, not having learned anything from home-grown terrorists like Whitman, Harris, and Klebold (btw, I wouldn’t bring this up except against some raging anti-Muslim bigot, but Klebold had some Jewish ancestry and reportedly disliked both his Jewish and Xian religious training. Which means nothing that I can see (Klebold perhaps was a sort of anti-Semite in a way), any more than the fact that Harris was raised Catholic, except, I hope to Schussel, who wishes to blame Muslims for any and all violence). Anyway, 9-11 was rather more “successful” than even this more recent carnage.
And no, I don’t wish to ignore the violent tendencies in Islam. What I don’t see is any real peacefulness in any of the Abrahamic religions (not to blame the adherents, many of whom are good and decent folk, with some sects of all of those religions being quite pacific), so that the desire to blame the one of these religions which has suffered the most from invasions and colonization, including the Mongols and recent Europeans, is hardly worthy or at all helpful to the cause of peace.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/35s39o
Unfortunately, unlike Don Imus, there’s nobody we can really write to here to place pressure. She seems to be more or less self-employed as a blogger, and the only organisations that seem to support her are other right-wingers who won’t respond to a write-in campaign.
However, the next time she appears on a news program somewhere, I think it would be a great idea to write to the network complaining about their support for such a despicable, open racist.
In Australia we had a shooting just like this. What did we do, well we band all guns that could fire more then a few shots without reloading. We made it harder to own fire arms and we made strong laws about their storage. We even made laws that a persons firearms can be held if they are thought to be dangerous. That was ten years ago we have not had any shooting like it since. Gun death in Australia have dropped like a stone. I wonder what your fed gov will do?
Anyone who tries anything like that will have earned killing.
Kill the god damn gun-grabbers.
You really can’t win with the Columbine shootings. People try as hard as they can to avoid the obvious conclusion (i.e., that it was two seriously fucked up and pissed off kids living out a revenge fantasy) and instead blame it on something. Video games, music, evolution, atheism, psychiatric drugs, gothicism, capitalism, etc. It has a curious tendency to coincide with the political agenda of those placing the blame.
I suspect we’ll see the exact same thing here, for quite a while.
… right after we get rid of all the Americans for producing home-grown terrorists like Timothy McVeigh and whoever sent the anthrax powder.
I thought the snippet you quoted actually represented the one sliver of sanity in a moronic post: in principle a terrorist group (presumably, though not necessarily muslim) could decide from this incident that suicide attacks on college campuses are effective, nearly unstoppable and create disproportionate amounts of publicity.
McVeigh, hopefully you are practicing satire.
If not, as a law abiding owner of firearms, I humbly request that you check yourself into the nearest mental institution.
I call troll on #54. I’m not seeing any leeway for satire, either. Expecting a disemvowelment any moment…
She could have pointed out that this is a demonstration to all different styles of terrorists (McVeigh types, Columbine-like ones, etc). Instead, she chose to specialize to just Muslim ones. Quite a logic.
She is truly reprehensible.
Debbie Schlussel is a truly disgusting human being.
This creature is truly disgusting for jumping in when not all facts are known.
It certainly demonstrates exactly what the snippet PZ posted said it did, but I think the terrorists know that anyway.
I’m all in favour of ‘the right to bear arms’ (being a target shooter myself), but surely there have to be some regulations behind it – licence, waiting period, etc. In addition, if you are a non-citizen of any nation, it should be very, very difficult for you to own or bear a firearm in that nation; the exception being for those gun owners already licenced in their home country who are travelling abroad to organized sporting events (e.g. Olympics, Commonwealth Games), who can be issued a licence for the event and for practice beforehand.
Australia has a fairly tough set of laws – you have to be a member of a shooting or hunting club, a security guard, a farmer, or if you are going to shoot pests, you need to demonstrate access to appropriate lands. You have to apply for a permit to buy each individual firearm, showing cause for each, the wait time being 30 days. You can buy the gun outright before this, but you are not allowed to take possession until you have the permit.
These things being the case, and with the exception that I do not believe civilians need access to weapons capable of full automatic fire, I see no reason to restrict the type of firearm that is bought. That takes care of the law abiding citizens. Criminals, of course, do not care, and will do as they please.
Pakis are considered “Asian.”
Y’know, if you really want to be pedantic, Israelis are “considered” asians. Lot’s of pasty assed Russians too. And the Turks. Well, the ones east of Istanbul. Not to mention a whole helluva lot more Arabs, Persians, Pashtun tribesmen and Indians than the ones in Pakistan.
The shooter has now been identified as a Chinese national here on a student visa. Lovely. Yet another reason to stop letting in so many foreign students.
Just like the Whitman massacre was another reason to disband the Marine Corps, you heartless, ignorant jackass?
Y’know, if you really want to be pedantic, Israelis are “considered” asians.
From the mouth of Israel’s ambassador to Australia:
“Israel and Australia are like sisters in Asia,” Tamir said in an interview with Haaretz during a visit to Israel this week. “We are in Asia without the characteristics of Asians. We don’t have yellow skin and slanted eyes. Asia is basically the yellow race. Australia and Israel are not – we are basically the white race. We are on the western side of Asia and they are on the southeastern side.”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/774471.html
“I thought the snippet you quoted actually represented the one sliver of sanity in a moronic post: in principle a terrorist group (presumably, though not necessarily muslim) could decide from this incident that suicide attacks on college campuses are effective, nearly unstoppable and create disproportionate amounts of publicity.”
Um, no, it’s actually a stupid statement.
Are you honestly saying that it’s some sort of revelation that there are places where people gather that are NOT heavily fortified and defended military zones?
Good god, lets sure hope the terrorists never learn of the existence of our super secret SHOPPING MALLS!
Doesn’t matter what the shooter’s ethnicity is. Doesn’t even matter why or to what lengths the shooter went to prove a point. The point is well understood across any reasonable point of view. It was a cripple. A broken human. A lost dream and a mother’s dread. A father’s shame. Just a damn shame. Only worse is that he got away with it. Twice, if late news reports are accurate.
What difference might have been made by a half dozen or so permitted carriers (of guns and ammo, that is) on campus this morning? Considering various possible scenarios, could the death toll have been less if there had been present, without badges or fanfare, those with the ability and skill to respond faster than law enforcement can? You know, regular people in whom is the font of power in a republic such as ours is struggling to be?
I don’t have a definitive answer since I know from experience that there is no cure-all, no sweet and persuasive answer that delivers all things to all men.
Strength is a no-brainer; Power is a sum-bitch.
Craig – I think that response misses the point. You might as well have said sarcastically after 9/11 “gee! flying hollow metal tubes full of fuel can explode? Who woulda thunk it?”
I am suspicious of the implicit claim that every deed that is in principle doable is something someone is thinking of doing right now. Events can and do change perspectives by expanding the scope of the thinkable. People in general aren’t all that imaginative – don’t underestimate stodginess, is what I’m saying. I, for example, have typically tended to see youth gun shootouts as a high school phenomenon. Today dramatically and very publicly changes that.
High schools however are both comparatively (much) smaller than VT and more secure, which may make attacks harder. For that matter, it is somewhat hard for your average 18-25 year old foreign terrorist to blend in with a crowd of American high schoolers. Colleges campuses are essentially open-access to everyone, really easy to attack and cause the same public hysteria. Meanwhile, it is much easier for a potential attacker to blend in.
I don’t find it ludicrous to imagine some al-Qaeda type thinking today something he may not have been thinking yesterday (though he was perfectly capable of doing so) – that colleges are excellent targets.
D said, “I am suspicious of the implicit claim that every deed that is in principle doable is something someone is thinking of doing right now. Events can and do change perspectives by expanding the scope of the thinkable. People in general aren’t all that imaginative…”
If not us, who?
From all the reports I’ve read today there has only been one witness stepping forward and saying “he looked like he might be Asian” from that all this speculation arises. It’ll be interesting to see what actually happened once the truth gets out.
Seems a lot of people here don’t have a problem with guns… and of course that was the president’s response when asked about the shooting:
Personally, I don’t see the reason for “recreational” 9 mm handguns. Our “right to bear arms” comes from the need for a minute man militia, an army to defend ourselves as a nation, not for individuals to go around armed for personal reasons. Considering how many people die as a result of the use of guns I’m surprised that people continue to support “the right” to own them. They aren’t tools, they don’t serve any other purpose to kill. If you don’t intend to kill with them, what do you have them for?
Yeah. He/she/it was trolling Living the Scientific Life a couple of days ago. Looks like a drive-by troller, and a contemptible ghoul.
Fol-di-rol.
Bob
O My Dog, My Asian relatives are also Chinese!
I won’t be able to sleep tonight.
Because I’m still working on taxes, though.
Race: It’s just a paint job.
“A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind.” — Aral Vorkosigan
I hadn’t heard of this particular opportunistic mischaracterization of the day’s events, but Ms. Schlussel isn’t the only one trying to advance an agenda through tragedy. Reknowned video game hater and legal lightweight extraordinaire Jack Thompson of Florida labeled the VT shootings as being fueled by video game violence. And where did he make this statement? Why, Fox News of course…
The “if only someone had been armed” argument that always occurs after this kind of event has at least a couple of flaws.
First of all the mere possession of a firearm does not mean you will be able to use it when threatened. No one knows how they will react to someone trying to kill them until it happens. Unfortunately some people seem to think a gun is a magic talisman that does make you braver and quicker to act than the unarmed.
Then of course there’s the problem of how police officers, and indeed other potential armed persons, are supposed to know that a specific armed person in such a scenario is the bad guy or not. The more armed but unidentified actors involved, the greater the possibility either the wrong person will get shot, or that someone will hesitate before taking a shot at someone who is a bad guy because they’re not sure he is or not.
This is just awful.
I just spent 2 1/2 days with Bud Welch here in Lincoln, NE. His daughter was killed in the Oklahoma City bombing and he was here in NE trying to help us get rid of the death penalty. We came very close.
I can’t imagine what April is like for that guy.
phat
How long will it be before the blame is pinned on Atheists? Most Chinese are non-religious in the American sense, and it’s not going to take long for pundits to declair that his problem was there was just not enough Jesus in his life(why Jesus didn’t step in to stop it will be chalked up to “mysterious ways”.) You know we’re going to be blamed for this…
“If only somebody had been armed, they could have stopped all this…”
The problem was that somebody was armed…
j.t.delaney, unfortunately, you are probably right. Already on the CNN site I saw four or five pictures of people praying and read a couple of mentions of prayer in the stories.
If prayer worked, they should do this beforehand and pray for nothing like this to happen. But I suppose that after Columbine, people did make such prayers.
If you don’t intend to kill with them, what do you have them for?
As an implicit threat that you are _able_ to kill if the need arises, in the hopes that that threat will prevent said need from actually arising.
Re: “Paki” and “Asian” and other inappropriate names…
Here in England, calling someone a “Paki” these days either gets you filled in, or a short trip to the courts.
Calling someone of Indian descent, even if muslim, will assuredly get you filled in.
But then, recently, in the USA, wasn’t a group of Sikhs stopped and held for several hours, because the US authorities were too stupid and ignorant to tell the difference?
For those who don’t know, the Sikhs were ruthlessly persecuted by some of the Moghul emporeres, for their faith, and their last guru was hideaously tortured to death – he cursed the Moghul, warning him that in 100 years, the ferenghi would come, and destroy all his kingdom, and take it for themselves, and kill his supporters. He was murdered anyway.
100 years later, the British (enthusiastically helped by Sikh troops) razed the old forts at Delhi, and finished the Moghuls.
The Sikhs, and some of the British have not forgotten this.
The authorities weren’t the only ones. Remember the Sikh man who was murdered outside his own gas station in Arizona on 9/15/2001?
Check out Valarie Kaur.
I think some commenters here need to avoid the temptation to the logical fallacy of arguing facts with Debbie because they are disgusted with her conclusions from those facts. Otherwise we just vindicate her when the facts turn out as she has guessed and the guy is muslim. Muslim or not, Debbie and her racism stink.
Oh, my god the killer was a primate! See how bad evolution really is. BTW we need to make sure that chimpanzees do not have unlimited access to semiautomatic weapons.
“I don’t find it ludicrous to imagine some al-Qaeda type thinking today something he may not have been thinking yesterday (though he was perfectly capable of doing so) – that colleges are excellent targets.
Posted by: D”
D if you and other Americans underestimate those who would harm you in such a ridiculous way, you stand litle hope of keeping yourself safe.
People capable of thinking up and executing 9/11 have certainly considered malls, schools, sporting events, nuclear facilities, bridges and probably anything else you can think of. But they are not a vast army, they have limited resources and abilities, and in the US limited access.
Where they have more access they create mahem. Just consider 30 dead in Iraq would be a GOOD day.
I went over to Debbie’s site to see if she acknowledged a particular student’s bravery as the massacre unfolded.
So this guy had the presence of mind to take cover and shoot video of events. I suspect that if I were in that situation, I’d employ the time-honored strategy known in vertebrate endocrinology circles by the technical term “pee and flee”.
Like I said, I went over there to see if she acknowledged this guy’s bravery in the face of events.
*crickets chirping*
VTech has up to date news on its site now.
http://collegemedia.com
Raven, the day Debbie acknowledges Jamal’s heroic actions is the day the Tooth Fairy outs herself as a magic drag queen and takes control of the CIA.
Schlussel doesn’t exactly sound “American,” either.
From her website (a geneology link), I see that her relatives most likely first came here some time between 1890 and 1920. Her grandparents were foreigners!
And therefore, so is she… deport her! :)
I would never usually give her site any more time than necessary, but I just had to comment on there about her use of the word “Paki”. In the UK this is considered extremely racist – is this also the case in the US? I know Bush used it in a speech but that’s hardly an indicator.
I don’t think Americans consider it racist. After all, Pakistan means Land of the Paki, where Paki is a word meaning clean. It’s along the same lines as calling inhabitants of Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhistan Afghans, Uzbeks, and Kazakhs respectively.
The Washington Post is reporting that the killer has been identified as a native of South Korea.
Tom, you may be right about how americans consider the word, but your logic is wrong. For example, N-word simply comes from the work for black in French/Latin but is considered too offensive to use even in a comment discussing the offensiveness of the word. It’s not a word’s origin that makes it offensive, it’s its current or past usage.
In the UK ‘Paki’ certainly has a racist meaning. In the US I personally know first generation Pakistanis who use the word exactly as Tom suggested.
They describe themselves as ‘Paki’ in the same way someone might say Brit or Scot.
From the mouth of Israel’s ambassador to Australia:
“Israel and Australia are like sisters in Asia,”
Except for the small fact that Australia isn’t actually a part of Asia.
What a racist boob. Let me guess; He’s Sephardic right? Ashkanazi generally can’t say shit like “we are basically the white race” with a strait face seeing as how millions of their fellows were slaughtered because they were NOT considered part of the “white race”.
The shooter has now been identified, and he was not Chinese, but Korean. Minor point but worth mentioning.
Yes, there has been at least one ghoul who has blamed evolution, and don’t let it shock you, but it is Ken Ham. Orac has the story at
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/04/contemptible_ghoul_2.php#commentsArea
Not only was the shooter a South Korean, but he was here as a legal permanent resident i.e. he had a ‘green card’. Debbie “Scheiße” Schlussel was wrong on both counts – the national origin of the shooter and his visa status. I doubt she will apologize, though.
Yep, confirmed as South Korean and was an English major in his fourth year. Schlussel has changed her sub-moronic, xenophobic propaganda slightly–when she claimed the student was Chinese she had an image of the Chinese flag next to the Virginia Tech logo, not so subtly implying a Chinese/commie attack on VT. Now that’s been proven wrong, the flag has now been removed (but no image of a South Korean flag has taken its place–I wonder why…). The student who took the cell phone footage of the attack has now been attacked by Schlussel as possibly having terrorist ties: “Wondering if he’s related to Palestinian terrorist mastermind Marwan Barghouti now in prison for planning mass terrorist attacks and homicide bombings, which murdered many Israelis? It’s very likely.” and also for being from Saudi Arabia and having the gall to compare the events at VT to violence in the Middle East. How dare he!
Since she can’t blame Muslims, and commies I suspect she’ll move on to cultural causes: liberalism, atheism, unchecked radical leftism at Universities, whatever she can come up with…
Well, that’s one on me. I totally expected her to just ignore his bravery under the circumstances, not slander him.
Guess I owe Mr. Raven 10 bucks.
“It’s very likely.” Wow. Beyond contemptible. Is she insane?!?
Raven, I need to post off-topic here (where I’m pretty sure you’ll see it) regarding the kind remarks you made towards me on the Virginia Tech thread. I hadn’t realized I’d made any impression at all, let alone a good one. Thanks.
Because, obviously, all Arabs are terrorists or are related to terrorists, which appears to be the same thing.
This woman is mentally ill.
Joel wrote:
Schlussel is such an unbelievable bitch.
I posted on her site once to ridicule a hysterical movie review she’d written and guess who she asked if I was related to?
Leni Riefenstahl, Nazi propagandist. Oh. How original. Probably she’ll assert that the kid is Kim Jung Il’s bastard South Korean son ans that must explain it.
SHE TYPES IN ALL CAPS, TOO. Anyway, she isn’t insane. She’s just your run of the mill nasty bitch. (Although, if we were anything like her we could just insit it’s becuase she’s Jewish.)
“BTW we need to make sure that chimpanzees do not have unlimited access to semiautomatic weapons.”
Well, we do . . .
Related through *first* names, Leni?
Maybe I’m related to the Fan-tailed Raven (C. rhipidurus), then–that’d be cool.
JUST WONDERING.
Christianity is incredibly popular among South Koreans and Korean-Americans. What are the odds Debbie will connect yesterday’s tragedy to the Bible if we learn that Cho was raised a Christian? I just posed this question on Debbie’s site and my comment was promptly deleted.
Christianity is incredibly popular among South Koreans and Korean-Americans..
Yep, that is quite true. Most Korean-Americans I know are fairly devout Christians. This of course, in all likelihood, has precisely nothing to do with yesterday’s events and to draw conclusions about Christianity or Christians in general would be asinine (to put it mildly), but if the shooter were Muslim no doubt we’d be seeing endless posts on right-wing blogs about “sudden Jihadi syndrome” and about Islam’s incompatibility with the west.
Joel,
That’s my point. Debbie’s blog and those of other lunatics are already suggesting that Cho was either a closeted Muslim or someone who had recently been introduced to Islam. What are the odds these people will make the same asinine connection between Cho’s actions and his religious upbringing if it turns out he was an evangelical Christian or a Catholic? ZERO. Instead, we’ll probably hear that Cho wasn’t a real Christian, blah blah blah.
Take Mein Kampf, strike out “Jew” and replace it with “Muslim” and you’ve got Debbie Schutzstaffel and the rest of the lunatic Right to a T.
I thought he was Korean?
It doesn’t matter with Debbie, she doesn’t care that he wasn’t actually Muslim, Chinese, Korean, whatever.
Just so long as she can grasp at any opportunity to say “I HATE MUZLIMS SO MUCH”
Raven,
Yeah, I know. Don’t ask me. That apparently was the best she could come up with.
Paki…It’s along the same lines as calling inhabitants of Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhistan Afghans, Uzbeks, and Kazakhs respectively.
Although in British English, it’s more like calling Jews “Yids”.
Hi Folks.
This is a high anxiety event. We need to be a little more careful in coming to conclusions. The proverbial hall of mirrors.
What is real and what is fake?
For example, the DS issue:
————
I hope today’s racist remarks from DS haunt her for the rest of her career. Let’s not forget this person.
Posted by: Christian Burnham
—————-
Well, if you mean to complain about her comment about terrorists and muslims, please think about this.
MUSLIM IS NOT A RACE.
SOMEONE WHO CRITICIZES MUSLIMS IS NOT – BY DEFINITION – A RACIST!!!
So you can’t call her a racist over this.
However, more to the real issue, there has been a lot of confusion about what actually happened.
Re Barghouti – Aren’t you all wondering how he got there like that? This could not have happened by chance.
He was placed there. Some are saying CIA.
We are seeing a scam and a set up unfold.
We are told that:
——————-
He died with the words “Ismail Ax” scrawled in red ink on one of his arms.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/04/cho_seunghui_le.html
=========
That is an Islamic expression.
It relates to the false Islamic notion that Abraham was ordered by G-d to sacrifice Ishmail – with an ax – and not Isaac.
And so, in closing, note that DS was not:
1. a racist; nor
2. at all out of line with the Muslim involvement scenario.
However, we can also assume that folks are being set against each other by the big guys, so dig a little deeper still.
His name is Albarghouti, actually. And you’re right–a grad student? On a campus? Something’s up for sure!
Albarghouti = Barghouti
See below – Marway Barghouti, master terrorist, mass murderer himself, at times is spelled Al Barghouti.
Same name.
———
Virginia Tech | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist
… made by a Palestinian, Jamal AlBarghouti, who is a graduate student in civil engineering at VA Tech. Presumably he is some relative of Marwan Barghouti, …
http://www.gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/4/16/131039/482/
Israeli media reveals names of Palestinian prisoners to be swapped …
… also included Marwan Albarghouti, senior Fatah leader and Ahmad Sa?adat, … Palestinian information minister, Mustafa Barghouti, told reporters …
http://www.imemc.org/article/47730
==========
Mustafa is Marwan’s brother.
This Jamal albarghouti stuff = one big scam.
Goal: to make the Barghoutis look like nice guys and not the terrorists they are.
BUT by the way, yes, they send them around to get professional credentials. In fact the name of one of the terror orgs is Engineers Org.
Great cover, huh?
Elisheva, you’re guilty of one of the cardinal sins here at Pharyngula:
Quote mining.
But first, that URL you cited was not quite correct–
here it is.
If we go there, we’ll see first of all that this is a COMMENT, not even an actual post, and that the intent of the commenter is not exactly the way you depict it.
Here’s the quote:
“Ironically also, the informative video supplied to CNN was made by a Palestinian, Jamal AlBarghouti, who is a graduate student in civil engineering at VA Tech. Presumably he is some relative of Marwan Barghouti, the leader of the Palestinian party Fatah, whom the Israelis have kept in prison for many years. And yet, in his interview with Wolf Blitzer, Jamal is plainly shocked and saddened by this act of violence in an American town, for which he has come to have great affection.”
In other words, this commenter is saying something like:
“This guy, named Smith, is probably related to those other Smiiiths over there, who exhibit characteristic X. But gosh, this particular Smith seems to have a reaction which is not what you’d expect given the likelihood of characteristic X amongst all those other existing Smiths, Smiiths, or Smiiiths. Maybe he’s OK.”
The commenter’s logic is off (I mean, come on–does my friend named —— Reilly necessarily share Bill O’Reilly’s politics, get money from Bill’s books, or share his loofah while Bill’s on the air?), but clearly this comment isn’t anything like the kind of sourcing needed to establish the kind of hypothesis you’re trying to promulgate.
However, I hear that Kent Hovind is gotten kind of busy lately, so your talents might be singularly adapted to covering for him for the next ten years or so.
–pr
Interesting point you raise, pr–I wonder if quote-mining had existed in the day, if it would have been included as an example of lashon ha-ra.
From Judaism 101:
“Re Barghouti – Aren’t you all wondering how he got there like that? This could not have happened by chance. He was placed there. Some are saying CIA.”
Oh great, it’s like someone crossed a creationist with a conspiracy theorist.
WAVING THE IRRELEVANT “GUILT” FLAG INSTEAD OF AGREEING TO THE UNDERLYING TRUTH
Well, guys, you can evasively wave around an attack on a person.
However, the truth is that the fellow in question – if he actually was the sole killer – is well known to have gone by the name Ismail and Ismail Ax.
Since you don’t want me to post the name as cited on just about every report made, you will have to take my word for this fact.
Second, the name “Ismail” absolutely is Muslim. It is Ishmael, Isaac’s errant step brother.
Anyone who reads the Bible will know this.
Third, the word “Ax” was used as part of the name, and this refers to the alleged use of an ax, by Abraham.
One more distortion of history and Bible by the Muslims, and one which is a good indication of how far they will go in distorting truth and facts to advance their agenda.
Next, yes, the al Barghouti on TV is known to be part of the terrorist clan.
I had come across him a while back.
Perhaps someone with contacts in Israel will provide us with the precise type and manner of relation. I am thinking that Jamal is the imprisoned terrorist’s nephew, but am waiting to hear from folks who might be able to verify this.
Finally, all said, yes, the alleged Virginia murderer had chosen an openly Muslim name to write on himself and to use in numberous settings.
So don’t blame DS.
You folks need to either remove the accusation up at top, or to post an apology, as she was, in this instance, pretty much right on the money.
Even if there is a family link, which you’ve not yet proven, it doesn’t matter. We all have relatives of whom we’re not proud. Neither of you has yet shown anything wrong that he has done, and additionally you both trivialize the way he kept his head in a very bad situation.
The quote you mined from the commenter undercuts your own point, as it says that he was clearly shaken at the horror that happened in the American college town he had grown to love.
There are two Arab guys in my research group–nice guys, doing tremendous research with applications that can potentially provide a lot of help to people. Lashon ha-ra artists like you and Debbie make their lives here just that much harder, all for nothing.
No one here is about to apologize for calling her on her attempts to railroad innocents, so don’t hold your breath.
Glen Davidson: You really want to screw with stereotypes? Mention the Chinese Jews.
“Second, the name “Ismail” absolutely is Muslim.”
Yes, it is. Unfortunately, judging from photos of the return address on the package he sent NBC, he used the spelling “Ishmael.” Like in Moby Dick. Or the KJB.
So, your point is kind of- well, pointless.
Turns out the guy was a Christian
“Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people.””
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting
This woman should never be on TV again.
She’s disgusting.
Media Matters takes her down. Olbermann takes her down as well.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200704190003