An Imam and his friends gang raped a girl in Narshingdi, Bangladesh just two days ago. It is quite common that Imams or Muslims priests rape. For rape, they prefer children to grown-ups. I do not understand why people who believe in Islam get angry with Imams for raping girls. Imams believe in Islamic laws more than their country’s civil laws. Islam doesn’t advise men not to have sex with children. Prophet Muhammad himself married a 6-year-old child. The marriage was consummated when 6-year-old child turned 9-year-old. We have created a law that says sex with children, with or without consent, is rape, and rape is punishable by law. But Allah’s laws are different from the laws of the civilized countries that care about women’s rights, human rights, children’s rights.
Imams have been raping girls and children in Bangladesh:
An imam has been arrested on the charge of raping a fourth-grade student in Munshiganj. March 2012
An Imam raped an 8-year-old female madrasa student in Pirojpur. January 2012
An Imam raped a 10-year-old girl in Chittagong. November 2010
An Imam raped and made a teen pregnant in Faridpur. July 2009.
Yes, Imams rape. They are like any other bad guys, molesters, harassers, abusers, rapists.
Not only in Bangladesh, Imams rape everywhere.
An Imam raped his daughter’s 15-year-old friend in Nigeria.
An Imam was arrested for raping children in Afghanistan.
We hear that fear of Allah, or love for Allah prevent people from doing bad things. But nothing could prevent Imams from committing crimes. Imams know Allah will forgive all their sins and reward them with paradise if they pray to Allah five times a day or memorize the Quran or go to Mecca to perform Hajj.
Yesterday I went to Dumdum station area. Here politicians keep on shouting 365 days a year. They said – “If you go out at 2 O’ clock in the night, it is your responsibility, WB Govt. has no responsibility in that!”
shameful.
In paradise,Allah will award them with wine (scotch whisky) and Hoors ( under 16 yrs girl whose age remains constant ), hahahaha, what a fantasy of a sick or talibani man on earth , who could fulfill it here on earth, wants in paradise as rewards.
The wine in Paradise is non-alcoholic. God says: “no headiness will be in it, and they will not get drunk thereon.” [7:47]
As for the “Hoors” they are to serve the believers only. No verse in the entire Quran says that there will be intercourse with Hoors in Paradise. Again that’s a late tradition. I also do not know where you got the 16 years old thing from, but that’s not in the Quran either. Regards,
Muslims get angry with Imams for raping girls because Islam criminalizes rape, whether it is rape of children or grown ups.
And you really did not understand why Muslims get angry with things like this? Sorry but I have to laugh.
Prophet Muhammad did not marry a 6 year old child. That’s a late tradition written after the death of Prophet Muhammad by more than 200 years. The Quran allows marriage only at maturity: “until they reach a marriageable age” [4:6]. Therefore God’s laws are not different from the laws of the “civilized countries” (whatever that means). God’s laws care about women’s rights, human rights and children’s rights.
Imams do rape children, but these are isolated incidents and punished according to the laws of the lands that they reside in. They are not institutionalized rape like the Catholic church.
Regarding Paradise God says: “all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds shall have their reward with their Lord; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.” [2:62]. So a person has to be righteous in order to have paradise. A person who rapes a child is not righteous and therefore will not have Paradise even if he is a believer and prays to God or memorizes the Quran or performs pilgrimage. Going to Paradise is not achieved by belief alone but by deed also.
But then again you are an opportunist who uses people’s tragedies for anti-Islamic agenda. In your post you talked more about Islam than the rape victim. I am not surprised. Your shallow knowledge of Islam doesn’t help you either.
Regards,
Sahih Bukhari Hadith. Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
Hadiths were written after the death of Prophet Muhammad by more than 200 years. The Quran allows marriage only at maturity: “until they reach a marriageable age” [4:6]. Therefore God’s laws are not different from the laws of the “civilized countries” (whatever that means). God’s laws care about women’s rights, human rights and children’s rights.
If you read my post carefully you would have realized that I already refuted this point.
“Islam criminalizes rape,”
Perhaps the issue isn’t so much whether or not rape is right or wrong. As far as I know, it’s universally condemned. Perhaps the problem is the disagreement over what constitutes rape in any given case. And who gets to decide what counts as rape in the first place. Too often, the victim’s thoughts/feelings/experiences are discounted.
Rape as I understand it is sexual intercourse by force. If someone commits this then he must punished according to law.
”The Quran allows marriage only at maturity: “until they reach a marriageable age” [4:6]. Therefore God’s laws are not different from the laws of the “civilized countries” (whatever that means). ”
— What age is the marriageable age according to the Quran? The Quran did not say it. So, according to Islam, marriageable age for girls is 6, because the prophet of Islam married a 6-year-old girl. Right?
The Prophet of Islam did not marry a 6 year old girl. That’s a late tradition/hadith that was written after his death by more than 200 years. The Quran, which is our earliest records several aspects of the Prophet’s life, never mentions anything about Aysha or that the Prophet married a 6 year old girl.
The mere fact that God mentions “marriageable age” means that He is not considering premature girls. A person who speaks of “marriageable age” does not have little girls in mind, otherwise the phrase would be redundant and meaningless.
The Quran did not specify the age of marriage because different countries can have different laws regarding the age of marriage. Some countries put it at 18, others put it at 21, yet others put it at 22. I think these are all reasonable ages and that is why the Quran left the choice to us to determine what age suits us best. So it is the responsibility of the entire community to determine what age constitutes a marriageable age. God says: “and whose rule is consultation among themselves;” [42:38].
There is nothing in the Koran forbidding rape. Rape of non muslims is permitted and encouraged. There are temporary marriages in which the woman has no consent. And children may be raped provided the rapist does not ejaculate in them (and if he does the only punishment is that he has to marry her which is hardly a punishment for him, but it is for her, the rape victim). It’s a disgusting barbaric politics and it must be eradicated if humans are to live in peace.
Positively shameful. I’m glad there are others (like you, Taslima) that point out Muhammad’s pedophilia, as well as Islamic law regarding sex with children.
The safety and sexual purity (for lack of a better word) of a child should trump any and all religious beliefs, laws, tenets, doctrines, etc., and the fact that there are two laws regarding the rape of children (and I agree, it is rape – always) in one country that are diametrically opposed to one another, but yet the one that disregards the sanctity of childhood which was legislated to protect these children is cast aside in favor of one that not only doesn’t address the immorality of pedophilia, but often seems to condone it.
Thank you for this.
Taslima Nasrin has an agenda my friend. She is an ideologue. You should read the other side of the story.
Prophet Muhammad did not marry a 6 year old child. That’s a late tradition written after the death of Prophet Muhammad by more than 200 years. The Quran allows marriage only at maturity: “until they reach a marriageable age” [4:6]. Therefore God’s laws are not different from the laws of the “civilized countries” (whatever that means). God’s laws care about women’s rights, human rights and children’s rights.
I agree with you that the safety of children should be above all.
Regards,
I’m sorry but I gotta say this to Issam: Who the fuck cares that you think “God’s Law cares about rights” when there are millions of people out there behaving this way, often under the protection of religion. I don’t care what god thinks, I don’t care what you think, I don’t care what *I* think, I only care how people treat each other. And when I learn the reasons why and the tools used to enable these behaviors, I do indeed work to discredit them.
What you think ‘Gods Law’ is or does or says doesn’t matter and is completely irrelevant.
Lies.
I am sadly not surprised by this. Sexual assault happens in all hierarchical social systems unless there is careful oversight to prevent it. It happens in schools; it happens in sports clubs; it happens in churches and temples and mosques. It happens in the military (although there may be fewer instances involving children there). We need to redesign society so that this does not happen.
Ophelia Benson had a post discussing this recently: http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/01/the-victims-never-seem-as-important/
@Issam @4:
You are indulging in the No True Scotsman logical fallacy, or in this case ‘No True Muslim’. You may personally regard the many hadith that describe pedophilia as invalid (for what it is worth, they were compiled over the 200 years or so after the Qur’an was written). You may also regard Qur’an 65:4 as not actually describing rules for marrying and divorcing female children who have not reached menarche.
But there are many Muslims who claim that those hadith are valid; and who hold to that interpretation of the Qur’an. Thus, there is a serious problem.
This is not unique to Islam. There is a lot of ugly stuff in many religious texts, which can lead to similarly horrible things.
This is no fallacy my friend because I use scholarship and careful exegesis to understand the Quran. Hadiths were written 200 years after the Quran was written. That’s a fact that makes Hadiths inauthentic. Verse 65:4 talks about mature women who do not have course. I think this happens with women who cannot bear children. We can see this because the verse from start to finish is talking about women who are beyond the monthly courses, and women who are with a child. The context is about adult women from start to finish.
I know that there are Muslims who unfortunately claim that those hadiths are valid and hold to that interpretation of the Quran. I never claimed otherwise. That’s a serious problem that needs education. But I was defending the Quran, not what a group of Muslims understand of the Quran. However if you think that their understanding is correct then you can put forward their arguments and we can discuss them if you wish.
There are atheists who are nihilists, does that automatically make atheism nihilist?
Regards,
No. You are still guilty of the No True Scotsman fallacy.
As I said, you may follow a form of Islam that is based only on the Qur’an and disregards all hadith (although such a form would seem to be contrary to the vast majority of current Islamic practice). But as you yourself admit, there are Muslims who interpret Qur’an and hadith far differently than you do. They are still Muslim. If you say that ‘Islam does not allow X’ while there are many Muslims who say ‘Islam allows X’, then you are guilty of the No True Scotsman fallacy. You are redefining the categories of ‘Islam’ and ‘Muslim’ to exclude ideas that are horrific and terribly mistaken. That is not permissible. They may be wrong, but they are still Muslim and still profess Islam.
This fallacy can be applied to any group, religious or not. There are many atheists who believe sexist, racist, and other offensively wrong things. But to avoid the fallacy, we cannot say that they are not atheists or that they are doing atheism wrong. This is why many of the members of Freethought Blogs are listed as “Atheism Plus” – atheism by itself is not enough.
In any event:
Your disagreements about interpretations of the Qur’an and hadith are irrelevant to this problem. There are imams who use their religion and their positions in their communities to exploit and abuse others. The particulars of that religion are irrelevant, just like the particulars of Catholicism are irrelevant to the problem of Catholic priests abusing children and the rules of football are irrelevant to the problem of abuse by coaches. As I note above, sexual assault happens in all hierarchical social situations unless there are deliberate and well-informed efforts to prevent it. We need to re-design society so that there are always such efforts.
So if I say that I am Islam Plus then the fallacy is gone?
I think to determine which exegesis is correct we have to weigh in both arguments and assess them on their own merits.
I agree with your second paragraph. Regards,
No.
The truth is that some people say and do evil things and use Islam as a justification. As long as you are defining Islam as what you believe rather than a set of things that contains what you believe and what they believe, you are committing the fallacy.
Atheism Plus works because atheism is a simple single statement: “no deities exist”. The next question to ask is “plus what?”. “Islam Plus” wouldn’t work unless you were to reduce Islam to whatever narrow set of things everyone who identifies as Muslim believes and get all of them to use that definition.
Incidentally, you have just committed another fallacy: false dichotomy. You said “which exegesis is correct”. That is a false dichotomy because there is another option. All exegeses can be wrong at the same time. When a text is self-contradicting, it is impossible to come to a single unique correct interpretation. The Qu’ran is self-contradicting (see below). So while you can interpret it anyway you like, you can’t say that your interpretation is right and all others are wrong. End result: further attempts at exegesis becomes pointless.
And since you agree that people being abused is a problem, please go think about how to solve that problem, rather than claiming “but true religion isn’t like that” when it often is.
I think this whole disagreement can be resolved by evaluating the arguments of the two parties and establishing which interpretation is correct.
You say that All exegeses can be wrong at the same time because the Quran could contain contradictions. I have not come across a contradiction in the Quran. I also responded to your example below.
I also think that you too could be committing the No True Scotsman fallacy. There are atheists who think that atheism is not just the denial of the existence of God but that it logically entails other things such as subjective morality. I believe that Mackie was one of those.
I do comment on social issues and problems by the way, although not in English but on sites and blogs in my mother language. Regards,
>I think this whole disagreement can be resolved by evaluating the arguments of the two parties and establishing which interpretation is correct.I have not come across a contradiction in the Qur’an<
No, you have come across contradictions in the book (here is a partial list: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html – they also index contradictions in the Bible and the Book of Mormon). When you encounter a contradiction, you make a choice about how to resolve it but the contradiction is still there in the text. The Qur'an also contradicts objective reality (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/science/long.html ). So while you may say 'this is what this part of the book says', it can still be wrong.
I have not said that atheists who do and say evil things are not actually atheists. They are atheists. They are simply wrong about those things, either through malice or ignorance. It also happens that moral relativism is not necessarily a bad thing, but that is not a discussion to have here.
“If you read my post carefully you would have realized that I already refuted this point”
Hardly. And repeating it doesn’t make it any more true or any less stupid.
“The Quran allows marriage only at maturity: “until they reach a marriageable age” ”
Here’s your argument: Marriage is allowed when they reach a marriageable age. Your Quran quote says nothing about maturity or what is considered maturity. You made that up yourself – oh, excuse me, you “interpreted” that part. All that’s required for marriage to a toddler to be allowed is some dude declaring that the marriageable age is now 2 years of age.
Your god hates women. He thinks they’re dumb cows and fuckholes.
Your point is indeed stupid. 2 years old is not marriageable age. Even those who argue for child marriage never ever use this verse for their argument.
No “dude” has the single authority to decide what constitutes a marriageable age. Rather it is the entire community. God says: “and whose rule is consultation among themselves;” [42:38]. Some countries put marriage age at 18+, others put it at 21+, others put it 22+. We can put it at 20+.
My God values women and makes them equal to men. He never says that they are “dimb cows” and “fuckholes”. God says: “The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil” [9:71] and also says: “And their Lord has accepted of them, and answered them: “Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: You are members, one of another” [3:195]
Regards,
The Qur’an is self-contradictory on this and on many other subjects. e.g. “Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.” [4:34]. Such contradictions are one reason why the Qur’an should not be used as a guide to ethics (the same applies to the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Vedic scriptures, and many other texts). You may interpret the book whatever way you like, but that is your interpretation – no less and no more.
Once again, though, the particulars of the book are irrelevant when it is being used to enable evil.
The verse says: “The men are to support the women with what God has bestowed upon them over one another and for what they spend of their money.” [4:34] The verse is conditional. If men do not spend or God has not bestowed upon them over others then they have charge over women. Also women can be in charge over their husbands if they want if they spend on their husbands. Regards,
Correction: I meant “If men do not spend or God has not bestowed upon them over others then they DON’T have charge over women”.
Ah. Just as I thought, Issam. You, like your god, think women are dumb cows and fuckholes. And you like to gather like-minded morons around yourself, where you tell each other what great guys you are, and reiterate the same, tired, nonsensical, illogical “arguments” to rationalize your misogyny. So, how does it feel to stray into the real world, where people don’t buy into your excuses for why it’s OK to rape?
islamic site ki kai information hy
Maybe some Muslim priests rape children, but not all. Write what you mean and mean what you write.
stop critizing islam… a mistake committed by a indiviual is not the whole islam.. did yu found that prophet pbuh had intercourse with 6 yrs or 9 yrs girl????
if yu dont like islam get the hell outta our faith…
before blaming islam please look upon what islam says and not what muslim say… cuz islam is perfect but not every muslims and imams…
What I’ve read on islam I don’t like I’ve read and saw things on u tube about how islam kill there animals if this is true y would I want to convert. I’ve seen footahge of people being beheaded and childrem beig beheaded because they have stood up to islam and how men treat their women pls someone tell me this is wrong the stories I’ve been told and also why can’t these people come into our country and live by our law cos if we went there we would respect there law but they come here and cause uproar and call us being racist but I don’t know religion was a race . Can anybody answer my questions pls x
@paula read more about islam,but dont judge islam frm the social media ,learn frm the scholars of islam read what grt philosophers says about islam,the likes of ,micheal j hart,maurice bucaile,malcom x,research more about quran frm muslims,if al wot you c are moral of islam then y is it that staistics released by both d un and us suggest that the likes of saudi arabia and other islamic countries av the lowest rate od rape,armed robbey,kidnaps,abortions etc while d so called world police has one of the higest crime rates.most of the hoodlumps who carry out such are not acting on the prinxiples of islam but are poiltically mituvated
Who ever that wrote this article obviously has no sense of what Islam is. If you don’t know something for sure, don’t even say it. Go and read the quran. First of all, prophet Muhammad never married a nine or six year old girl. That’s just bullshit. And if your muslim and believe it, your just commiting a sin. So how about you go read the quran and then come back and write things about Islam.
Quaran was revealed by Allah through Gabriel to prophet Mohamed when he turned forty a matured age It is claimed that even all the libraries. Of the world are destroyed except quaran nothing to regret as this book contains all the knowledge It is further said that if all the oceans turned in to Ink and write by trees quaran cannot be excelled or reproduced. Why I narrate all this to emphasise that quaran has allcompreensive wisdom then Hadith can be ignored and various intrepretations can be accepted Positive ethical maxims of general nature can be included
Prophet Mohammad never married a 6 or a 9 years old girl, this an an outright lie that was spread by the haters of Islam, and absolutely this has been spread by either Islam haters or out of ignorance, The girl you all have been claiming she was 6 or 9 , she was 18 years old, read about facts before you all get exited and before you all start spreading such lies.
Prophet Mohammad never married a 6 or a 9 years old girl, this an an outright lie that was spread by the haters of Islam, and absolutely this has been spread by either Islam haters or out of ignorance, The girl you all have been claiming she was 6 or 9 , she was 18 years old, read about facts before you all get exited and before you all start spreading such lies.
Yemen, a country where the oldest manuscripts of your religion have come from (Sanaa – dubious as they are), have people practising child marriages just like their Prophet and say that any laws to prevent this practise is un Islamic.