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Edward Snowden’s Christmas message

This was shown on Britain’s Channel 4. I haven’t been watching any US TV but I wonder if any US news outlets aired or will air this short message by one of the most significant political figures of 2013 and possibly the decade.

Comments

  1. rpjohnston says

    I heard it on the radio as my dad was driving us to my grandparent’s place. He usually has it on NPR so that was probably it.

  2. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    one of the most significant political figures of 2013 and possibly the decade.

    I know you’re a fan Mano Singham and sorry but I really don’t think so.

    Mano Singham will go down in history as a leaker and a traitor and I don’t think his influence will be anywhere near what you think or / & hope.

  3. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    So you just had to make an irrelevant comment reminding everyone you hate muslims? I’d think someone who is so hurt at being accurately labeled a bigot would be less eager to find excuses to display their ignorance and hate.

  4. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    D’oh! I meant Edward Snowden of course not Mano Singham for the second line there. Mea culpa.

  5. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    @4. dysomniak, darwinian socialist :

    No, I just thought y’all may find it interesting / amusing.

    Also I do NOT hate Muslims.

    Just Islam because it messes them and the rest of the world up so much.

    Oh & I’m no bigot either you prejudiced idiot.

  6. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    I’m neither ignorant nor hateful – which my comment # 2 also kinda illustrates for ya when ya think ’bout it..

  7. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    Yeah you’re not a bigot, you had to mention how eeeeeevil Arafat is. Yup, just another terrorist like that filth Mandela.

  8. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    @^ dysomniak, darwinian socialist :

    Except I actually said nothing of the sort.

    And, no, Nelson Mandela and (the non-cricketing Late and unlamented other) Yasser Arafat have nothnig in common. At all.

    (Well, ‘k, cept fa the name.)

    Mandela was a great man who deserves a hell of a lot of respect and freed his people from unjust tyranny.

    Arafat? Nope. He (not the bowler) was a terrorist leader, a corrupt erstwhile dictator who broke peace treaties he agreed to and ultimately died an utter hate-filled failure.

    No comparison. Name aside o’course.

    I very much doubt the other Arafat could bowl! ;-)

    (Not that Howard could either but still.)

  9. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    @#3, #5, To clarify Mano Singham : I do NOT think you are a traitor – some of your opinions are terribly wrong and misguided but you are not treasonous and no implication otherwise were intended. Sorry about the typo and no offence meant.

  10. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    Nelson Mandela and (the non-cricketing Late and unlamented other) Yasser Arafat have nothnig in common

    Heh, Mandela didn’t agree.

  11. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    @ dysomniak, darwinian socialist :

    Why you love Islamism and Arafat so much anyhow btw?

    You are always defending those.)

  12. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    @ dysomniak, darwinian socialist :

    Oh really? Citation badly needed.

    Also you accusing Mandela of being a terrorist here?

  13. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    Mandela – a good person who didn’t set out to murder others and committ genocide.

    Arafat (not the bowler) a bad person because he did murder others and set out to commiitt genocide against a whole other nation.

    How exactly is this hard to comprehend?

    Also how many people precisely did Mandela kill or set out to kill?

    None?

    Yeah that’s why he was a good bloke an’ Arafat wasn’t.

  14. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    The difference between activist (good) and terrorist (bad) – Mandela didn’t actually (or aim to) murder or harm other humans whereas Arafat (the non-bowler Arafat, the more famous terrorist one) very much did that.

    I never would have guessed this would be such a difficult distinction for some here to grasp.

    Seems to be that tho’. You got an intellectual impairment dysomniak, darwinian socialist or something?

    (Yeah, I may be drunk but I can sober up. No insult intended, seriously, but how the blazes can flippin’ Dysomniak, not flippin’ understand that and see the blatantly obvious? The hell is wrong with xhem?!)

  15. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    @ ^ dysomniak, darwinian socialist : Hah, well I’m glad you find some humour in the situation then! Not sure why you find it funny though.

    Course, I know who Nelson Mandela was. Major respect to Madiba too. Doesn’t mean I have to or will agree with all he ever said though. Or with anyone else’s really silly comparisons and analogies about him either. Mandela was not a mass murderer or encourager of mass murder or someone who wanted bloodshed and terrorism. He was a good human being. Terrorist Yasser Arafat – was not.

    Whilst answering questions – here’s one for you and Mano Singham and everyone else on the pro-Arab side of the whole Arab-Israeli wars thing :

    Just how many times do the “Palestinians” (invented, what ’bout the mid 60′s,early 70′s?) have to reject even the most generous peace and statehood offers that create their “nation” – existing *peacefully alongside Israel* – before you take “no” for answer?

    The Palestinians – unlike pretty much every group ever – have thrown away each and every chance for a state of their own they’ve ever been offered since 1948. (A time before the word “Palestinian” even really existed or referred to anyone – they were then just called “Arabs” and had no distinguishing difference from Jordanians. Which, yeah, state aside, remains true.)

    How often does Israel need to have its offers of peace spurned by a group of scumbags that still want to drive the Jews into the sea d’ya think before they’re entitled to say, well okay, stuff ya then?

    *If* the Palestinians really wanted a state of their own, they’d have it by now.

    They were offered one in 1948 – as well as Jordan which was already chopped off the Mandate and contained 2/3rds the land.

    The Palestinians have been offered an (undeserved) state of their own regularly ever since. (Although not when Egypt occupied Gaza and Jordan occupied the Samaria and Judea regions pre-1967 Six Day War when it would’ve been easiest to create, go figure.)

    They nearly got it with the Oslo accords before Arafat broke his word and the peace in the 1990′s.

    They were offered 95% of what they demanded in about 2000 when Ehud Barack and Bill Clinton were negotiating with Arafat – the Arabs turned it down.

    (Supplementary question – ya reckon the Tibetans or West Papauns or even the Chechens would have been so churlish and, lets face it, moronic as to turn down such an offer if *they’d* ever had such an equivalent offer from China or Indonesia or Russia?)

    Even after all that, the Israelis unilaterally gave back Gaza to the Palestinians despite the cost in Israeli lives, sweat and tears that it costs them. And Hamas, now in charge post intra-”Palestinian” Civil War, “thanked” Israel with murderous indiscriminate rocket-fire aimed at innocent civilians.

    Israel has always been willing to make peace even at a terrible price to itself. The Arab side? Not one tiny bit. They have never once been decent or willing or trustworthy partners for peace and co-existence.

    (Ok. Maybe *just* the once with Egypt’s Sadat – but only that once -and the Islamists murdered Anwar Sadat because of it.)

    That is objective historical factual reality.

    So, yeah, really, pro-Arab siders here, what will it take before you face reality and accept that the Palestinians are NOT and never have been interested in a state of their own or peace or anything except murdering the eight million Israelis who do nothing bad to them except in self-defence?
    Y’know what. I don’t even hate the Palestinians*, stupid and self-destructive and nasty as they are, I just want them to stop killing and trying to kill Israel and its people, accept reality and move on with their lives in peace.

    But that makes me supposedly a bad guy here somehow I guess?

    (Never can figure out why the hell that is though.)

    Plus, given all this, who then is responsible for all the Arab-Israeli Wars and why and what’s goanna stop the killing, hmmn? How long y’all gonna blame Israel for not lying down and letting itself be murdered eh? What would y’all do in its place?

    * The scumbags who blow other people and themselves up and the gutless “leaders” and “Sheiks / Imams / Ayatollahs” who cynically send out those homicide-suicide bombers while hiding behind their women and kids and families a.k.a. human shields – those evil swine though – yeah, I do hate and have utter contempt for them. As all good people would and do.

  16. Nick Gotts says

    the Palestinians are NOT and never have been interested in a state of their own or peace or anything except murdering the eight million Israelis – StevoR@20

    Right. Every last one of them, from new-born babies to centenarians. Muslims, Christians and atheists. Including those married to Jews. And StevoR is not a bigot. He says so, and we have to believe him because he says so, and he never diverts threads into being all about him and how people misunderstand him. And Edward Snowden is a traitor, because StevoR says so, and besides, if you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve nothing to hide, and should be perfectly fine with an organization that has proved it can’t keep the data it holds secure knowing everything about you. What do you mean, you’d rather like some privacy? You must be some sort of Muslim terrorist!

  17. doublereed says

    Comparing Mandela and Arafat seems pretty laughable. Israel has been willing to work with many leaders of Arab nations (most obviously Jordan). There’s a reason why the talks between Netanyahu and Arafat failed so miserably when other leaders they have succeeded. Arafat wasn’t really interested in peace in the first place. I have no idea why you would compare them.

    Israel has its share of problems, but I really have no idea why people think raising up Arafat makes any sense.

  18. doublereed says

    Also, I really have no idea why StevoR keeps referring to the Palestinians themselves rather than their wacky leadership at various times. It’s not like Palestinians want war and death here. Characterizing them by the ridiculous attitudes of people like Arafat is just stupid and racist.

    It’s like characterizing all Americans by the views of George W Bush. It’s just incorrect.

    Palestinians and people all around the world are just like you and me. They’re far more concerned with their own personal lives and problems like paying the rent.

  19. Silentbob says

    @ 20 StevoR

    Israel has always been willing to make peace even at a terrible price to itself. The Arab side? Not one tiny bit. They have never once been decent or willing or trustworthy partners for peace and co-existence.

    (Ok. Maybe *just* the once with Egypt’s Sadat – but only that once -and the Islamists murdered Anwar Sadat because of it.)

    That is objective historical factual reality.

    Speaking of “objective” historical factual reality, that reminds me of the time right-wing Zionists murdered Israeli Prime Minister Rabin for even contemplating peace with the Palestinians.

  20. doublereed says

    Probably should mention that Israel and Palestine are once again in peace talks, planning to end sometime in April. But there’s a lot of understandable cynicism of peace talks on both sides.

  21. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    @21. Nick Gotts

    “..the Palestinians are NOT and never have been interested in a state of their own or peace or anything except murdering the eight million Israelis.” – StevoR@20

    Right. Every last one of them, from new-born babies to centenarians. Muslims, Christians and atheists. Including those married to Jews. – Nick Gotts

    No. Wrong and not what I said or meant to imply.

    Yeah it was a generalisation about a nationality and there are always exceptions to generalisations. Good luck to the exceptions here – the Palestinians (too few & too powerless in my view but some do exist) who are truly interested in peace not war and who are willing to get along and not keep hating as their culture seems to brain wash them into doing.

    StevoR is not a bigot. He says so, and we have to believe him because he says so, ..

    You forgot to add :

    And because its also true.

    It is. I’d know being me an’ all.

    .. he never diverts threads into being all about him and how people misunderstand him.

    Well, okay, I did post one off-topic comment here whilst drunk last night and yegods, did things ever spin outta control from there. Mea culpa in this thread I guess. I wasn’t meaning to get into a another flame war here and was actually trying to post something positive about Yasir Arafat (the good bowler) and a Muslim individual and show y’all I’m not the bigot y’think I am. I don’t hate Muslims if they’re not hurting or out to hurt others and are just being people.

    Edward Snowden is a traitor, because StevoR says so, ..

    No, Snowden is a traitor because he betrayed his country, spilled state secrets he’d sworn not to spill then ran off to hide and help his nations’ enemies.

    .. besides, if you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve nothing to hide, ..

    Correct in my opinion.

    ..should be perfectly fine with an organization that has proved it can’t keep the data it holds secure knowing everything about you. What do you mean, you’d rather like some privacy?

    Incorrect in my view. Thing is the problem here is the security breaches. I’d like the NSA to deliver security and prioritise that over privacy where need be to keep lives from being lost.

    Oh & what I or you want isn’t going to be what happens anyhow in the big bad world out there so we might as well face and accept that. Its not nice or what we’d like but its called being realistic.

  22. StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return! says

    @22. doublereed : “Comparing Mandela and Arafat seems pretty laughable.”

    I agree with that and,pretty much the rest of what you wrote there.

    @23. doublereed :

    Also, I really have no idea why StevoR keeps referring to the Palestinians themselves rather than their wacky leadership at various times. It’s not like Palestinians want war and death here. Characterizing them by the ridiculous attitudes of people like Arafat is just stupid and racist.

    No its the standard shorthand when discussing international politics to describe what the government wants as what the people want. Its a generalisation but usually one that mostly holds true.

    Note that almost everyone always uses this format I think for every nation e.g. “The Americans want a new free trade deal” Or “the Chinese have demanded other nations ignore the Dalai Lama and refuse to meet him” Or “The Russians are supporting and arming the anti-Western forces in the Ukraine” etc ..It is just what we say and how we talk because to go the long way round is too cumbersome and well, long. and usually, okay often, what the government says is what the majority of the nation-in-question’s population wants or thinks or whatever.

    Palestinians and people all around the world are just like you and me. They’re far more concerned with their own personal lives and problems like paying the rent.

    Those Palestinians just doing or wanting that I’ve no issue with. Good luck to ‘em. Those who aren’t, who do go the whole religious terrorism and oppression thing, not-so-much.

    Probably should mention that Israel and Palestine are once again in peace talks, planning to end sometime in April. But there’s a lot of understandable cynicism of peace talks on both sides.

    There are *always* peace talks on this issue – and then wars and then peace talks and then more wars. Israelis notably always the ones talking and offering peace, the Arab side always the ones rejecting peace offers and starting new wars they knows they can’t win but can’t stop fighting to destroy the world’s one, only and tiny Jewish land anyhow. Why? You’d have to ask them not me.

    @24. Silentbob : Yitzhak’s Rabin’s murder was a rare exception to the rule I’ll grant you that. No side is 100% perfect here. But Rabin was only one of many – practically all – Israeli PM’s to offer peace. How many Arab leaders have ever done so or offered such painful sacrifices for it as the Jewish leaders have?

  23. doublereed says

    Note that almost everyone always uses this format I think for every nation e.g. “The Americans want a new free trade deal” Or “the Chinese have demanded other nations ignore the Dalai Lama and refuse to meet him” Or “The Russians are supporting and arming the anti-Western forces in the Ukraine” etc ..It is just what we say and how we talk because to go the long way round is too cumbersome and well, long. and usually, okay often, what the government says is what the majority of the nation-in-question’s population wants or thinks or whatever.

    Yea, when you’re talking about the government actually doing strategic trade deals and stuff. But that’s not what you’re saying. Come on, read what you wrote:

    So, yeah, really, pro-Arab siders here, what will it take before you face reality and accept that the Palestinians are NOT and never have been interested in a state of their own or peace or anything except murdering the eight million Israelis who do nothing bad to them except in self-defence?
    Y’know what. I don’t even hate the Palestinians*, stupid and self-destructive and nasty as they are, I just want them to stop killing and trying to kill Israel and its people, accept reality and move on with their lives in peace.

    Don’t use such shorthand when talking about terrorism and the downtrodden. It’s stupid and indistinguishable from racism.

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