Jessa Duggar, the 21 year old daughter of fundie parents with an obsession with popping out babies, has been touring museums to broaden her mind, I guess…or more likely, to practice a little motivated reasoning and rationalize her existing ignorance. She toured the Holocaust Museum and figured out what caused it: EVOLUTION.
I walked through the Holocaust Museum again today, very sobering. Millions of innocents denied the most basic and fundamental of all rights–their right to life. One human destroying the life of another deemed ‘less than human.’ Racism, stemming from the evolutionary idea that man came from something less than human; that some people groups are ‘more evolved’ and others ‘less evolved.’ A denying that our Creator–GOD–made us human from the beginning, all of ONE BLOOD and ONE RACE, descendants of Adam. The belief that some human beings are ‘not fit to live.’
Do I really have to go through this again? Evolution, a theory first published in 1859. Racism, a symptom of human ignorance and tribalism, which has been around for millennia (it’s in the Bible, even!). Cause and effect. It’s pretty simple: the scientific theory of evolution can not possibly be causal to ideological views that existed prior to its existence.
The Bible does say we’re all descended from one couple (we aren’t, actually; that’s scientifically demonstrable). But it also says that some of those descendants are marked with dark skin to be eternally servile. Christianity has not traditionally been an idea that supports universal egalitarianism.
But to say that after touring the Holocaust Museum — the Holocaust was propagated by good Lutherans and Catholics who had a centuries-long history of pogroms against the Jews. You’re not going to find an explanation in The Origin of Species for that abomination.
So where could she possibly have gotten this idea that evolution caused the Holocaust and that the Bible did not promote slavery and genocide? That’s easy. She toured the Creation “Museum” earlier, and that place is full of lies.
If there really was a worldwide flood (as the Bible speaks of), what would the evidence be? Billions of dead things buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth. And that’s exactly what we find. Billions of dead things buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth. An Evolutionist and a Creationist will look at the same thing, but come to different conclusions because of their different starting points.
Wait. The theory of evolution also predicts lots of dead things buried in rocks, so this is not an adequate criterion for distinguishing the two hypotheses. We have to look for different predictions that we can verify with the evidence in the rocks. Here’s one:
-
Evolution predicts that the billions of dead things would be deposited in layers over many millions of years, and that different strata would contain different organisms representing a sample of the living things living at the time the rock was formed.
-
Creation predicts that the billions of dead things would be primarily deposited in one catastrophic event, all buried in a swirling mess by one gigantic flood, so there would be no stratification of the different forms.
Guess what the evidence shows? 1. Evolution wins.
But also, isn’t it ironic to be deploring millions of dead in the Holocaust, blaming it falsely on evolution, while not deploring the many billions of dead, slaughtered in a great cataclysm, and not blaming it on God, the self-confessed mass murderer?
Whatever you do, don’t learn logic from the Duggars!
Ugh. I’ll never understand the media’s fascination with this disaster of a family.
All but eight, according to Genesis chapters 6 through 9.
And what about those Canaanites?
And all those Egyptian first-born?
Can’t help fools, the willfully ignorant, or the religious.
Don’t have cable, so don’t know much about Duggars. Sounds like something akin to a colony of naked mole rats. Found ’em on wiki. Father’s name is Jim Bob!
ROFLMAO!
If evolution or atheism or homosexuality or whatever else this hyper conservatives was the cause of the Holocaust, no one has ever answered one important question: Why target Jewish folk? None of these have any particular connection with Judaism, so there would be no reason to specifically seek them out for extermination.
@moarscienceplz,
Most people don’t select their own name, so I’m not sure making fun of that is the best idea. At most, it indicates he was probably born in the southern United States.
1 episode of the Duggar’s TV show had the whole family visiting the Creation Museum which was basically an extended commercial for the museum. And 1 of the Duggar sons is a fairly high-ranking member in the Family Research Council (which I’m pretty sure has at least 2 lies in its name). I think it’s fairly clear where the Duggars lie on the political spectrum.
She’s literally never attended a science class in her life. All she has is high school equivalency. She’s a grown-up and it’s time for her to open her eyes and mind and entertain the possibility she’s wrong about everything. She can’t do that while living at home though. Her dad reads her text messages. She can’t learn things on the internet because a brother is over her shoulder to ensure she doesn’t read anything deemed inappropriate by the fam. Same goes for TV.
Until she’s married her off and she moves out her parents ideas are the only one’s she’ll be able to expose herself to and she’ll be lucky if her husband is OK with her being exposed to things like science.
Let’s not impute racism to the bible where it doesn’t exist. I’m not saying there isn’t racist crap in it, just not in the specific verse that PZ is referencing. The curse of Ham, or rather his son, speaks to his status, but says nothing about his appearance, nor is there anything elsewhere about the descendants of Ham being black. That interpretation came centuries later. The verse does, however, indicate that some people deserve to be slaves.
There’s a major biology and math fail here though. It’s not going to take that many generations for everyone to be descended from all three sons. At that point, how do you tell who’s supposed to serve whom?
So, correct me if I’m wrong here, because my understanding of evolution comes from GCSE biology and the highly intellectual art of “reading shit on the internet,” but doesn’t evolution basically say, underneath it all, that we’re all family? That everyone reading this blog – and everyone not reading this blog – is actually my cousin to some degree or another? I mean, I know that not everybody gets along with their family, but I don’t think that recognising a relation is actually grounds for genocide.
I suggest people take a look at the short video of the Duggar parents which is embedded in this post:
http://crooksandliars.com/scarce/behold-duggars-campaign-ken-cuccinelli
These are deeply stupid people who, like Sarah Palin, are milking the fame that they have “earned” through their grossly irresponsible behavior.
Actually, skin color isn’t mentioned in the so-called “Curse of Ham”. It is a traditional view among many members of the Abrahamic religions, but isn’t in the Bible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham
@9 inquisitiveraven:
It takes much longer to get to that point, though, if you’re the type who only cares about descent through one of the parents.
ck #6
Huh, so there is some sort of law in Arkansas that requires him to go by “Jim Bob” and not, say, “Jim”?
OK, I grant you that I was a tad on the bigoted side with that comment, but come on, he and his family are science-denying godbots, AND he goes by Jim Bob. Surely that opens him up to a little justified ridicule.
What, exactly, is wrong with him using two names? Do you find something to be wrong with the name Jim or Bob? Do you also taunt people named Mary Anne? Would you also ridicule people with unusual spellings? My father wanted the true welsh spelling of my name. Considering that most people can’t pronounce it as is (and it is a VERY common female name), I’m sure it would have been even more difficult for other folks. Would you say that my social studies teacher, here in the USA, should have changed the spelling of her name from Siobhan?
@moarscienceplz, 14
If ridicule is necessary, why wouldn’t the science denial and the bizarre religious opinion that his wife is supposed to be a brood mare be sufficient justification? They at least map to reality… Jim Bob is just a name. A name that has connotations, true, but it’s not reasonable to assume that those connotations are actually accurate in many situations.
@14 Ah hahaha he has a name that sounds like a Southerner’s, that’s hilarious.
Also irrelevant bigotry on your part. Congratulations.
The state of the South isn’t really funny. Essentially they’re poor people being used by rich people telling them it’s minority’s fault, not the rich people’s fault.
And no a naming convention in a dialect shouldn’t be used for mockery whether it be, “Jim Bob” in this case or faux French “Shaniqua” in the case of AAE.
Well, she’s got a quiverfull. A quiverfull of ignorance.
Duggar obviously hasn’t read Mein Kampf Chapter 11:
“iron law of Nature–which compels the various species to keep within the definite limits of their own life-forms when propagating and multiplying their kind.”
“This urge for the maintenance of the unmixed breed … prevails throughout the whole of the natural world … The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger.”
I’ve heard of that family, haven’t watched the show. Way more kids than I’d like to have to take care of.
First rule of holes. If you’re in one, stop Dugging!
moarscienceplz:
Just what in the fuck wrong with you? James Robert, nicked Jim Bob, yeah, that’s fucking hilarious, all right. And , because dehumanizing people is just so damn funny.
The quiverful movement is not a joke, nor is it a joking matter. There are a whole lot of victims within it. I suppose that’s all ROFLcopter material too.
Try to educate yourself: Libby Anne – No Longer Quivering or read / watch this story by Vyckie Garrison. You know what’s really funny* about Vyckie Garrison’s story? PZ posted that, and it got all of four comments. It’s so much more fun and easy to take cheap shots on a thread like this one, isn’t it?
Oh, and along with trying to educate yourself, try to figure out what empathy is, too.
*sarcasm
This come pre-Godwinned so I will say this.
The Quiverfull movement for the most part, is a very racist movement. The reason to have so many children is to try to out breed non-white peoples. (Every child is an arrow in the family’s quiver.)
If in Germany between 1939 and 1945, Michelle Duggar would have been awarded the Ehrenkreuz der Deutschen Mutter, First Class (Gold).
I really wish people would be more sparing when comparing Nazi activity to anything. But the Duggars have a conservative christian point to make. So fuck the facts and the evidence.
And my only defense for the comparison I just made is this, my observation is based on evidence.
Their show actually gave me hope. My teenage daughter was watching their visit to the Creation “Museum” and thought it ridiculous that people think the earth is that young.
Meh. The whole “Evolution leads to social Darwinism and eugenics” thing again, take #eleventy billion.
I don’t understand the “evolution led to the Holocaust” argument from another perspective. Even if it were true (which it’s not) that Hitler had cited Darwin and evolution as his justification, it still wouldn’t make evolution any less true.
You may as well argue that killing someone by throwing them out of a window disproves gravity.
Two given names, meh. Come to Spain, we are the best!
María Dolores
María José
José María
José Antonio
Juan Pablo
These are just a few examples and says nothing about the person.
So, umm, correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t her beliefs include that anyone who hasn’t “accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior” gets to spend an eternity in Hell? Regardless of what they’d already been through? (*Cough* Auschwitz)…
Slippery slopes: They slip both ways.
She should try touring the museum at ground zero in Hiroshima for sobering.
@26
Eh, if your name is Borja Maria or Alfonso Sebastian it might actually say something about you….or rather your parents and their wallets.
And if your name is Felipe Juan Froilan de Todos los Santos, your uncle might be king.
One thing that has yet to be explained to me by these “Evolution leads to Hitler” people is, well, why Jews of all people? Why would one expect people who believe in evolution to target Semitic people for extermination? As far as I know, “Semitic,” like other commonly referred to races, is a social construct, not a clearly defined biological one. There’s no evolutionary rationale I know of for restoring or preserving the “Aryan” race in the manner the Nazis tried to. Genetic features aren’t diluted by interracial breeding, either. To top it off, we know that things like intelligence or criminal behavior aren’t purely genetic, thanks to godless neuroscience and sociology.
Frankly, it seems to me asserting that evolution caused the Holocaust implies that the Jews and other races are indeed inferior and that the Nazis were merely at fault for being coldly logical instead of taking pity on the clearly inferior people like good True Christians do. We think the Holocaust was wrong because oppression and bigotry are wrong.
Seconding Iyeska #21:
It’s easier and more popular to talk about awful Christian-homeschooling “teaching materials” and their influence on major textbook publishers, or Christian dominionism infesting US politics and domestic and international charities, than to talk about one of the core movements whose teachings drive the spread of those beliefs, because women having lots of babies is icky and laughable.
Since PZ’s own post didn’t seem to get the point across:
Have some more background reading from Cracked:
More specifically, here’s Libby Anne talking about the Duggars directly.
Carefully scripted lives: my concerns about the Duggars
Libby Anne has also connected the “complete submission” definition of spanking to Adrian Peterson’s child abuse charges, because he told the press he had to keep beating his son because the child didn’t cry fast enough.
Jessa Duggar’s ignorance ought not to be a target for ridicule. It is a wound, a sign of the abuse and neglect she’s suffered. She’s been brought up in what amounts to a patriarchal cult, beaten as a baby for the crime of curiosity (see Michael Pearl’s “blanket training” method). Her entire life has been lived under a microscope and I’m not referring to a TV crew. Her very hairstyle has been dictated by the sexual fetish of a religious leader (Bill Gothard). She’s had no proper education, just a couple of decades of exposure to propaganda, and not even a chance to educate herself either via the internet or any other means. She’s been brought up to be a brood mare and slave to her future husband.
Regarding Doug Little’s comment the Duggars did go to Japan. I have no idea if they went to Hiroshima or not. I don’t watch the show, so the only thing I know about their trip is a clip in an ad of Mrs. Duggar and her daughters getting dressed up as geisha in one of the geisha dress up places they have in Kyoto. Which is kind of amusing given that geisha don’t follow the kind of exceedingly narrow sexual path the Duggar women are expected to.
Iyeska, flos malum @21
Thanks for the reminder. I meant to go back and contribute.
Bah. I’ve been to Washington twice in the last two month, sightseeing each time, and the Holocaust Museum is in fact what I quote as the most relevant experience. It is extremely well done, a visceral experience about the capabilities of humans to cause harm to other humans. As a side note, it’s a real shame we don’t have an equivalent in Germany.
What I do not get is how one can walk away with any notions of ideological superiority (in this case, that of Christianity) as opposed to the gloomy resolve, “Never again”. Well I do get it, but it makes me sad.
“The curse of Ham, or rather his son, speaks to his status, but says nothing about his appearance, nor is there anything elsewhere about the descendants of Ham being black.” Yes – and moreover, the curse is by Noah (not God) after being embarrassed to have his son find him naked after a night of carousing. The phrase “The Bible says” is a prime example of weasel-wording, overlooking such fine distinctions as “Who said it?” – God (who admittedly said some awful things), or someone else such as King David, or Satan, or . . . ? But such distinctions are too advanced for Creation Museum types.
Julie:
You just brightened up my day!
Tim @34,
Ha Ha Ha, if only they knew. I find the whole dressing up as geisha mildly raciest, I’m sure they tried to talk with a Japanese accent as well when dressed that way.
The thing about the geisha costume rental places is that most of their cliental are probably Japanese. I doubt there are enough Western tourists to keep them going.
Again, you have underestimated Creation Science, which predicts separation of different life forms into different rock layers. Not only that, it is capable of predictions that evolution misses completely — how fast various kinds of life can move! What accounts for how life is separated by kind in rock layers is how fast they can run uphill to escape the flood waters. The fastest and most durable runners will make it to the top, while the slower competitors only make it part way uphill — survival of the fittest.
The same is true for plants and fungi. Before the Flood, trees were capable of running amazingly fast. Had you invited those Jehova’s Witness missionaries in when they last visited, you could have saved yourself the embarrassment of your ignorance in mischaracterizing Creation Science.
Monsanto, #41
Poe’s Law: 1
Me: 0
There is no “creation science”, since none of it appears in the peer reviewed scientific literature. There are creationist lies and bullshit found at web sites that declare their book of mythology/fiction, called the bible, inerrant, despite prodigious evidence to the contrary. Merely to pointed at and laughed at….
Monsanto, #41
*applause*
@Monsanto, 41
*pretzel*
*unpretzel*
I actually thought you were being serious, at first….
Nerd of Redhead, #43
Dear Redhead,
We’ve tangled several times, often when we’re on the same side of the fence, but I’m simply hauling out lame but real arguments that I would think are easily refuted since I usually include at least a partial refutation in my comments. My comments often reflect a real attempt by some group to explain away the offending science — in this case, by the Jehova’s Witnesses in their Watchtower and Awake! publications.
It’s not so bad this time around, but you often make statements like “There is no creation science…”, and although you supported it this time with something that is almost true (PZ has given several examples in Pharyngula of creation science authors sneaking through the peer review process to get their articles published in otherwise respectable journals), it can be stated better. It invites great non sequiturs like “Well, evolution is just a theory”.
This is not really a good example to call you out on, but I just wanted you to be aware that we have collided in the past on more substantial issues, and you have avoided the simple refutations. In this case, distinguish between time of fossil appearance and how fast they can run. Sponges (a single “kind” in creation “science”) show up throughout the fossil record of multicellular life, but most people would not consider them to be particularly fast runners, so why would they show up in the recent fossil record?
You may remember me as TotalRetard, a name you despised, so being the agreeable and sensitive person that I am, I changed it. I wanted to change it to Dow, but who remembers any more that they were the sole contractor producing napalm for the US during the Viet Nam conflict? (And who remembers that that was the spelling of the country’s name before news organizations opted for a shorter name?) I finally had to settle for Monsanto, a company beloved by many for its extraordinary efforts to make sure we get exactly the food we need.