Friday Cephalopod: The Passive Detritovore »« The silence of the men

Fools fail, f*ck their own sh*t up

You’ve probably already read Ophelia’s discussion of the latest MRA stupidity: a group of them on Reddit decided to flood Occidental College’s sexual harassment survey system with a collection of fake rape reports. The logic escapes me; people who claim that women make frequent false accusations of rape decide to inflate the statistics with false accusations of their own? Why? It was a spectacular own goal that effectively demonstrated that Men’s Rights Activists don’t actually care about ending rape, but are more interested in throwing up clouds of doubt and confusion to obscure their own repulsive activities and desires.

It was such a backfire that they’re now frantically trying to backtrack (It was so obviously stupid that even MRAs were aware of their mistake? That tells you how stupid it had to have been) and pretend that no, no one with any clout in the men’s rights movement had anything to do with inciting false reports. No, it was 4chan, yeah, that’s the ticket, it’s all the fault of those irresponsible pranksters at 4chan.

Except…here’s John the Other aka John Hembling, bigshot at AVoiceForMen:

jtoonbrothers

A word for Hembling: Yes, rape is a crime. So is falsely reporting a rape.

And gosh, but Hembling is really an awful person.

Comments

  1. says

    A college is trying to get information to figure out exactly how much of a certain crime is really being committed — and these guys call it a “jumped up kangaroo court” and a “star chamber?” These guys are truly the lowest of the low: the dumbest, the poorest, the least socialized, the least educable, the most frustrated, bitter, hateful dregs. Our society needs to change to make a better place where EVERYONE can get the education and socialization we all need; but until that happens, there will always be the most toxic dregs, and the rest of us will have no choice but to keep on protectinmg ourselves and isolating them from us.

  2. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    You say “own goal,” but I would not be surprised to see them say that this proves that when men file rape reports, no one listens.

    I suspect while they might want to say that, they won’t want to go there, since they knowingly as a group filed false reports, and there is solid evidence to show the conspiracy. Showing they are nothing but liars and bullshitters, whose word should be dismissed at every turn.

  3. jblumenfeld says

    Own goal maybe, but my daughter – a freshman at Occidental – tells me that she received an e-mail from the school saying they are taking down the website because of the false reports. So if that happens, chalk one up for the bad guys.

  4. Brandon says

    Doesn’t the “minus 7″ next to the comment indicate that it actually was rejected by redditors?

  5. borax says

    I can’t understand these MRAs; Do they not have mothers, sisters, daughters, nieces or a friend that is a woman? Every woman I know has had to deal with some form of sexism or abuse or sexual assault. I wish that was hyperbole.

  6. ludicrous says

    jnorris@4

    “Not men by any non-physical definition, just whiny little spoiled boys.”

    Please do not compare those disgusting mra’s to children. Children do not deserve that.

  7. ekwhite says

    The MRA attack on the Occidental reporting system has now made the front page of the LA Times. The sad thing is that this reporting system was put in place in response to Occidental Colleges failure to adequately report rapes on campus.

  8. says

    This story is currently on the front page of the LA Times and I would like to think that is a good thing, that more people will read about and learn about the actions of MRAs. The MRA types have made it into the comments, still angry about this horrible witch hunt system that will jail them. Or they make bizare comments about how awful left wingers are, which just seems strangely out of place.

  9. RFW says

    Sounds like the MRA-ists are deeply insecure about their masculinity.

    And they’re probably really bad in bed, too. What self-respecting woman would care to be intimate with a narcissistic dude whose primary objective is getting his rocks off? A good man puts his partner’s pleasure first and foremost, confident that she will return the favor and look after his pleasure. This is called the “What goes around comes around” principle. Treat your partner like a queen, worship her and the very ground she stands on, and she’ll respond in kind.

    As a gay man, let me add: if any woman reading is uncertain just how to handle an MRA-ist, just ask. I would be happy to make some truly alarming suggestions for leveling the sexual playing field, thereby causing said MRA-ist to both cry like a baby and walk funny for a couple of days. I believe these would be beneficial developments and might even lead some of those assholes to rethink their positions. [I better stop now before I start resorting to language that our genial blogger might object to.]

  10. MJP says

    From now on, whenever an MRA says “False rape reports are just as bad as actual rape,” we can say “you mean like the false reports the MRA movement itself carries out?”

  11. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Brandon, #7:

    Yes, it does indeed mean it was rejected by a vote of 47-54, which is very different from a vote of 0-7. Also, note that earlier the idea of going and filing false reports was up voted. It took time and blowback for the subreddit to get to a rejection point. Furthermore, it didn’t hit the rejection point until a mod had publicly blamed it on 4chan trolls conspiring to make MRAs look bad, and not the well-known MRAs that participated and were up voted early on.

    The participation of John the Other, whether or not he is net-downvoted now, is strong evidence that the mod talking about how all this came from outside the community and no part of it can be blamed on MRAs themselves is rubbish.

    So, sure, there’s a net-downvote. But the comment still speaks to debunking a popular accountability-avoidance theory, and the 47-ish% of upvoters are still terribly problematic, while the 53-ish% of downvoters, while important, have their meaning somewhat changed by the fact that net-downvoting happened after blowback, not before.

  12. Rey Fox says

    but I would not be surprised to see them say that this proves that when men file rape reports, no one listens.

    I believe this actually was used as one of their justifications. Sort of like how when PZ posted about the Shermer incidents, assorted lowlifes began spreading false rape accusations against PZ.

    I really think that their goal is to discredit the entire edifice of rape reporting and leave nobody with any recourse once they’ve been raped, and that they’re perfectly happy to throw male rape victims under the bus once they’re done using them as a prop for their vendetta against women.

  13. Stacy says

    @Brandon #7 – What Crip Dyke said; also, Hembling is editor-in-chief at AVfM. He’s a leader among assholes.

  14. Stacy says

    @Rey Fox #15

    I really think that…they’re perfectly happy to throw male rape victims under the bus once they’re done using them as a prop for their vendetta against women.

    Me too. To my knowledge they’ve never lifted a finger to help male (or any) victims of rape. People who really care about male sexual assault victims, and about men’s issues generally, distance themselves from these stupid, hateful clowns.

  15. says

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again AVfM made me realize that if those asshats were MRAs than whatever I am is diametrically opposed. I wanted to believe it wasn’t a “real” site and was some kind of sick satire, but at least it opened my eyes to how far the struggle for equality still has to go.
    So thanks AVfM for making me a pro-feminist.

  16. Onamission5 says

    @#4 jnorris–

    This has already been addressed, multiple times. The MRA contingent behaved petulantly, they are fools, they are entitled assholes to a one, but they are behaving exactly like the petulant, foolish, entitled asshole adults that they are. Calling them children both disparages actual children and removes responsibility for their behavior, as if they don’t know any better but to behave this way. They do.

  17. Brandon says

    @CripDyke, #14 –

    Thanks! I only occasionally look at Reddit, so I didn’t know that it showed total votes anywhere and didn’t pick that up immediately. I just saw the negative total. My bad.

  18. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    No sweat.

    I think I’ve been to reddit 3 or 4 times in my life, and each time very briefly. I only know about that stuff b/c ManBoobz has done analysis of what upvotes/downvotes mean. Any wisdom in entirely derived and not my own.

  19. says

    RFW @ 12:

    Treat your partner like a queen, worship her and the very ground she stands on, and she’ll respond in kind.

    Speaking as someone who has been with their partner 34 years, allow me to say Fuck. That. Noise. This ^ is pure idiocy, and it’s one of the pillars that props up systemic misogyny. You want to know how to treat a woman in a relationship? Like she is an actual, full, autonomous, thinking human being. By golly, I bet that would even work with people who aren’t women!

  20. says

    Speaking as someone who has been with their partner 34 years, allow me to say Fuck. That. Noise. This ^ is pure idiocy, and it’s one of the pillars that props up systemic misogyny. You want to know how to treat a woman in a relationship? Like she is an actual, full, autonomous, thinking human being. By golly, I bet that would even work with people who aren’t women!

    Thanks for saying this. I saw that comment as I was heading out so I did not have a chance to respond, but I am glad someone did because it irked me so much. Talk of princesses, and putting people pedestals is exactly what guys have been doing for a long time to justify their paternalistic actions. In addition is just strikes me as a very strange way to think about a relationship.

  21. says

    Borax, some of the MRA crowd likely think just as badly of the women they are related to as they do of other women. But others are like all sorts of bigots, they simply are good at rationalising why “their” women aren’t like all those other horrible women they detest. Just like the racists who do in fact have non-white friends, said friends being the “good ones” that they think don’t fit the picture of the rest of them in their head.

  22. Jackie wishes she could hibernate says

    Borax #8,

    I can’t understand these MRAs; Do they not have mothers, sisters, daughters, nieces or a friend that is a woman? Every woman I know has had to deal with some form of sexism or abuse or sexual assault. I wish that was hyperbole.

    I bet every woman they know has to deal with some form of sexism, abuse or sexual assault too…from the MRassholes themselves. Why else do you think they spend so much time assuring each other that it either isn’t rape, abuse, sexism or assault or that it was perfectly justified because women are all evil and must be subdued?

  23. karmacat says

    “I can’t understand these MRAs; Do they not have mothers, sisters, daughters, nieces or a friend that is a woman?” (sorry, I can’t figure out how do the block quote)

    I think what usually happens is these men watch their fathers mistreat their mothers. There is an interesting book called “Why Does He do that?” written by a man who works with domestic violence perpetuators. Abusers will always blame the victim for being abused. So these MRA’s blueprint of how to act.

  24. Brother Yam says

    microraptor #32,

    Oooohhh, wouldn’t that be fun to watch as the 4chan goons extract revenge on AVfM?

    [digs for digital popcorn]

  25. dongiovanni (Because I had to try this function sometime) says

    My guess is Goatse. Lots and lots of Goatse.

  26. Nick Gotts says

    Treat your partner like a queen – RFW@12

    What, you mean make her read out long, tendentious speeches written by someone else, and declare new sports centres and museums open?

  27. says

    As a gay man, let me add: if any woman reading is uncertain just how to handle an MRA-ist, just ask. I would be happy to make some truly alarming suggestions for leveling the sexual playing field, thereby causing said MRA-ist to both cry like a baby and walk funny for a couple of days. I believe these would be beneficial developments and might even lead some of those assholes to rethink their positions. [I better stop now before I start resorting to language that our genial blogger might object to.]

    I suppose you mean, fuck them with a dildo or something? Whatever dude. Your gayness doesn’t erase your male privilege and that is on full display here, along with the silly comment about treating your partner like a queen. And what’s with the odd prudishness? You can talking about pegging here. Really. It’s okay.

  28. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    No one else mentioned it, so maybe it’s just me, but the suggestion about pegging read as questionably consensual to me.

  29. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I think it’d be worthwhile to organize a campaign to enable the prosecution of the assholes filing these false reports. Not only would it be just in and of itself, it’d help to show up their claims that people who file false reports are allowed to get away with it…

  30. b s says

    Johntheother is right though, rape/sexual assault is a matter for the police, NOT some college kangaroo court.

  31. b s says

    Also, if you look closely you’ll see that post was pretty well downvoted. Hardly representative of MR as a whole.

  32. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    B S, thank your for your utter BS. And a survey of crime on campus is not a kangaroo court. Rape can only be tried in criminal court, and your lack of cogency requires you to take everything for something it isn’t. Again, thank you for showing us how completable and idiotic the MRA contingent is with your own words.

  33. zimbazumba says

    This is an act of civil disobedience highlighting how unreliable the data from these systems is, and the predicament some students suffer. It is moral act by the disadvantaged standing up to the powerful and self serving. Historically student protest has brought about positive change despite the despicable resistance of the establishment. Powerful political forces are the establishment here.and they should be shamed as bullies. It is a David and Goliath morality tale.

    It is easy to swim with the tide and the powerful, it takes courage to take a stand and express unpopular views. Sadly P.Z. Myers is swimmer with the tide and a defender of the establishments power structures and narrative. Attacking disenfranchised students is easy and is playing to the crowd, he offers nothing to this grand debate.

  34. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    It is moral act by the disadvantaged standing up to the powerful and self serving.

    Show me with solid and conclusive evidence that Men are disadvantaged. Otherwise, your bigotry shines through your self-serving tripe. The weak are the women being raped. Prove otherwise with evidence.

    Sadly P.Z. Myers is swimmer with the tide and a defender of the establishments power structures and narrative.

    Yet, that is exactly what you are defending hypocrite.

  35. Rey Fox says

    Johntheother is right though, rape/sexual assault is a matter for the police, NOT some college kangaroo court.

    It was an anonymous data gathering survey, not a court. But thanks for continuing to show how stupid and venal the Mens Rights brigade is.

    Now I get to try not to be sickened by a comparison of activists for peace to rapists and rape enablers.

    This is an act of civil disobedience highlighting how unreliable the data from these systems is, and the predicament some students suffer.

    So, the old Republican trick of saying that government is bad, then getting in power and sabotaging it to show their point.

    Attacking disenfranchised students is easy and is playing to the crowd, he offers nothing to this grand debate.

    Disenfranchised students? Who in the world could you be talking about? The vanishingly small percentage of people falsely accused of rape? Oh yes, they have so little recourse. Except for all their male friends, bro culture in police departments, the pervasive culture of shaming rape victims…

  36. says

    RFW @12:

    I would be happy to make some truly alarming suggestions for leveling the sexual playing field, thereby causing said MRA-ist to both cry like a baby and walk funny for a couple of days.

    [bold mine]
    Could you clarify what you mean here?
    I’m trying to be charitable in asking, bc at first glance, it smacks of rape as a punishment against MRAs.

  37. says

    zimbazumba:

    This is an act of civil disobedience

    Really? By whom?

    highlighting how unreliable the data from these systems is, and the predicament some students suffer.

    How does this highlight anything? The report is meant to collect information and track trends. It is not a means to seek justice for anyone.
    Have you read the Occidental College online reporting form?

    This form should be used by members of the Occidental College community who have experienced or have been witness to sexual violence (sexual assault, rape or sexual battery). The information will be used to identify and address troubling trends. If a perpetrator is named, a member of the Dean of Students Office will meet with that person to share that the person was named in an anonymous report, review the Sexual Misconduct Policy, and inform the person that if the allegations are true, the behavior needs to cease immediately. Information shared in this form alone will not result in anyone going through the grievance process.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFNGWVhDb25nY25FN2RpX1RYcGgtRHc6MA#gid=0

    It is moral act by the disadvantaged

    Who is disadvantaged, how are they disadvantaged, and who is doing the disadvantaging?

    standing up to the powerful and self serving.

    The powerful are whom? In what ways are they self serving?

    Historically student protest has brought about positive change despite the despicable resistance of the establishment.

    Again with this notion that the MRAs flooding the college with false rape reports are students at the college. Do you have any proof they are? As far as I can tell, they are MRA assholes trying to fuck up attempts to track rape on the Occidental campus. That’s not positive change. They’ve overstated the extent to which false rape occurs, and their actions make it more difficult for victims of rape-women and men- to report their sexual assault and have people believe them. In what way does this lead to positive change?

    Powerful political forces are the establishment here.and they should be shamed as bullies. It is a David and Goliath morality tale.

    You compare the actions of the MRAs to minorities standing up for what is right against a powerful, established organization?
    ARE. YOU. FUCKING. KIDDING. ME?
    As a queer person, I find that offensive.
    As a PoC, I find that offensive.
    As an atheist, I find that offensive.
    Kindly make your way to the door douchenozzle.

  38. zimbazumba says

    @Rey Fox & @Tony! The Queer Shoop!

    Thank you for your predictable Establishment response. We have to keep the narrative just a going don’t we? Saul Alinsky would be proud of you.

  39. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    We have to keep the narrative just a going don’t we

    Yes, you MRA guys have to keep your inane and ludicrous narrative going. Not one whit of evidence to back up any claims. Which means ALL your claims are dismissed as fucwittery.
    Try again with real evidence to back up those claims. Your word is bullshit, just like your narrative.

  40. says

    zimbazumba:
    My god are you dense.
    I asked you questions so that you could elaborate on your position.
    I find it thoroughly offensive and thought maybe you had a rational, logical, evidence based reason for your opinion.

    So sorry.
    What came over me?

    The proper response should have been: Fuck off MRA.

  41. says

    I guess the MRA doesn’t have an answer to my questions.
    No explanation for how men attempting to make rape reporting more difficult is anything like the fight for Marriage Equality.
    No explanation for how men are disadvantaged.
    No explanation for what the establishment is, or how women are the ones in power.

    In effect, you offer no explanation, no justification for your beliefs.
    You just have them.
    (Un)fully formed.
    Lacking a basis in reality.
    No empirical support for them.

    What a goddamn fucking pissant.

  42. zimbazumba says

    @Rey Fox.

    Strong counter arguments to the narrative are always attacked the most strenuously. As is evidenced by the responses here. They must be silenced at all cost, including using ridicule if necessary. Bravo my friend, what a fine foot soldier you make.

  43. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Me thinks you protesteth too much.

    Methinks you are too stupid and ignorant to supply evidence. Try looking here: Google Scholar.

    Strong counter arguments to the narrative are always attacked the most strenuously

    Yep, strong counter arguments to your fuckwitted, evidenceless, and repetitive narrative (you have nothing else and we know that), refute your ass seven ways from Sunday. Which is why you don’t back up your narrative with anything other than your attitude. Which isn’t and never will be evidence.

  44. Jackie wishes she could hibernate says

    Zim,
    People telling you that you’re a tedious ass does not indicate that you’ve made a good argument.

  45. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    You sound like the Creationist debater Duane Gish. Read up on the Gish Gallop. Seem Familiar?

    Oh, you mean like Gish avoids presenting real evidence to back up his ideas, just like you? Your OPINION isn’t and never will be evidence. No evidence, your word is dismissed as fuckwittery per Chistropher Hitchens: “That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”

  46. says

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
    You thought your initial response was a strong counter argument?

    You’ve much to learn assclam.

    First of all, you haven’t constructed an argument, let alone a counter argument:

    Counter-arguments are reasoning and evidence that counter or contradict what you are arguing. If you don’t deal with these counter-arguments, you leave yourself open to attack. So to make your argument as strong as possible, you need to deal with them as part of your argument. Show that you know that there is another view-point to the one you’ve argued and explain why you are not persuaded by it. That way your argument remains strong against challenge.

    http://www.sussex.ac.uk/s3/?id=127
    So, fuckwit, what is the central idea you are arguing? Establish that first, then establish the counter arguments, and deal with them.

    Since you’re unclear on the subject of arguing, here’s more assistance:

    What is an argument?

    Basically, you need to produce a line of reasoning that supports your point of view. Tutors and lecturers need to see that you can:

    critically analyse and evaluate your subject, including your responses to it;
    present your reasoning and evidence in a clear, well structured manner;
    make sure your line of reasoning moves logically and coherently to your conclusion.

    http://www.sussex.ac.uk/s3/?id=123

  47. Rey Fox says

    Funny, I don’t seem to be picking up foot soldier wages from…what exactly am I the foot soldier for again?

  48. says

    zimbazumba:
    Oh, please continue to highlight your staggering ignorance.

    The Gish Gallop, named after creationist Duane Gish, is the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

    Asking you to provide evidence to support your multiple assertions is *NOT* a gish gallop.
    Please point out how I drowned you in a torrent of half truths, lies and straw men.
    Also, if you had proper justification for your beliefs, you could have answered my questions pretty damned fast.

    Try again Cupcake.

  49. says

    zimbazumba:

    They must be silenced at all cost, including using ridicule if necessary.

    How fast you’ve become a martyr.
    You’ve not been silenced.
    That is evident in that you won’t shut the fuck up.

    You invited the ridicule by failing to justify your beliefs.
    Where is the evidence for your beliefs?
    I’m still waiting, douchemaggot.

  50. Rey Fox says

    Strong counter arguments to the narrative are always attacked the most strenuously

    Rest assured, I’m not even breaking a sweat dealing with you.

  51. A. Noyd says

    zimbazumba (#56)

    Strong counter arguments to the narrative are always attacked the most strenuously. … They must be silenced at all cost, including using ridicule if necessary.

    Yes, all the requests that you expand on and better support your position were attempts to silence your “strong counter arguments.”

    (#57)

    You sound like the Creationist debater Duane Gish. Read up on the Gish Gallop. Seem Familiar?

    Actually, that Tony needed to ask so many questions based on your one comment shows you were attempting a Gish Gallop.

  52. yazikus says

    You sound like the Creationist debater Duane Gish. Read up on the Gish Gallop. Seem Familiar?

    Fun Fact: Duane Gish was a friend of mine’s great uncle. /funfact

  53. says

    zimbazumba:
    So you don’t have a response?
    (note: by ‘response’, I mean a non-vacuous answer to any of the various questions that have been posed to you in an attempt to get you to pony up on the evidence)

    You don’t have an argument?
    (note: I don’t have high hopes for this. You barged in here making various unsupported statement, with no backing in evidence, and I guess you hoped we’d all swallow your words without thinking. Sorry, this blog is frequented by people who value science, logic and evidence. None of which has been in evidence by your comments thus far. You could easily rectify that though.)

    You don’t have a counter argument?
    (note: You’d have to have *an* argument first, and seeing as you haven’t put one forth…)

    You don’t have an answer to any of my questions?
    (note: you don’t)

    So you’re here to troll for the lulz.
    SIGH.
    Are all you MRAs emptyheaded fuckwits?

  54. zimbazumba says

    yazikus

    Fun Fact: I had the misfortune of attending a lecture of Gish’s. He did exactly as the “The Gallop ” described.

  55. says

    zimbazumba:

    Hahaha!
    Your continued use of terms you do not understand to describe others is laughable.
    From your link:

    Social psychologists refer to cognitive dissonance as the presence of incongruent relations among cognitions that frequently results in excessive mental stress and discomfort.[1] Ultimately, individuals who hold two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas and/or values frequently experience cognitive dissonance. This stress and discomfort may also arise within an individual who holds a belief and performs a contradictory action or reaction.[2] For example, an individual is likely to experience dissonance if he or she is addicted to smoking cigarettes and continues to smoke despite believing it is unhealthy.

    Care to elaborate on the contradictory beliefs you think I or anyone else here holds?

    Hmmm, I may need to get some popcorn. I can’t wait to see what term you trot out next…

  56. says

    Rey Fox:
    I don’t usually mention misspellings, but given zimbazumba’s ineptitude, and the fact that his link provided the correct spelling, I did find this one amusing. I recall a lesson my parents instilled at a young age: don’t use terms you fail to understand.

  57. zimbazumba says

    @Tony! The Queer Shoop!, you are having a hissy fit and a bout of the vapors. The fact remains these are mainly undergraduate students protesting actions by the Administration that would be supported by the DOJ and other powerful political forces. This is the epitome of a David and Goliath story, regardless how you attempt to re-frame it. P.Z. Myers and his crew, ie you, would have been the first to send the riot police in to bludgeon the students of the 1968 Paris Riots.

    And btw to the rest of you, the ridiculing of the uneducated is a common pastime of the establishment and its elites. Like many young men of this generation university was denied me.

  58. says

    zimbazumba:

    P.Z. Myers and his crew, ie you, would have been the first to send the riot police in to bludgeon the students of the 1968 Paris Riots.

    Demonstrably false. P.Z. has stated in no uncertain terms his opposition to violence in any form. Regulars here call out violent rhetoric. So, no, Cupcake. You don’t get to just make shit up because it fits your narrative.

    And btw to the rest of you, the ridiculing of the uneducated is a common pastime of the establishment and its elites. Like many young men of this generation university was denied me.

    Oh, Sweet Pea, we’re not ridiculing you because you are uneducated. We’re ridiculing you because you came in spouting nonsense that you’ve been unable to back up. We’re not ridiculing you because you’re ignorant — we’re ridiculing you because you think your ignorance is a strength.

  59. says

    zimbazumba:

    And btw to the rest of you, the ridiculing of the uneducated is a common pastime of the establishment and its elites. Like many young men of this generation university was denied me.

    I hope you realize that everyone else in this thread can easily see your attempts to manipulate and control them and the discussion. That sort of con doesn’t go over well here. What does work is honesty coupled with a valid argument. You have proffered neither one.

  60. Tethys says

    ridiculing of the uneducated is a common pastime of the establishment and its elites

    Oh honey, they aren’t ridiculing you because you are uneducated. They are ridiculing you because you are an idiot who keeps using the language of the civil rights movement of the 60′s to describe the actions of a bunch of mewling, whining, internet assholes.

  61. Rey Fox says

    Not to grant any truth to the supposed David vs. Goliath metaphor here (’cause there isn’t any), but David isn’t necessarily right just by virtue of being small.

  62. says

    zimbazumba:

    The fact remains these are mainly undergraduate students protesting actions by the Administration that would be supported by the DOJ and other powerful political forces.

    Seems more like the fox protesting democracy in the henhouse, to me.

  63. zimbazumba says

    @Avo,, also nigelTheBold. I think they referred to the bludgeoning as restoring public order and the rule of law, and not violence. And ridicule of spelling? That’s not ridicule? I have yet to see a counter to the self evidently true description of this as the establishment attacking a group of students who are part of a grass roots movement. Dissidents at odds with the narrative of the powerful have to be silenced by whatever means. This story is as old as time itself and shame on you all. What next? Let them eat cake?

  64. chigau (違う) says

    A University Education is not necessary to copying-pasting.
    University Educations are not limited to The Young.

  65. zimbazumba says

    @Caine, Fleur du mal.

    Re: “… can easily see your attempts to manipulate and control them and the discussion.”

    ROTFL, my arguments are exactly the opposite and are to counter the attempts of the establishment to “manipulate and control” the narrative.

  66. Tethys says

    establishment attacking a group of students who are part of a grass roots movement

    4chan and reddit are not students at Occident College, nor are they a grass roots movement.

    They are a group of pitiful, anonymous, misogynist internet trolls who are finding themselves increasingly marginalized by their bigotry.

  67. says

    zimbazumba:

    I think they referred to the bludgeoning as restoring public order and the rule of law, and not violence.

    Let me state again (as you seem incapable of comprehension): P.Z. has stated in no uncertain terms his opposition to violence in any form. No matter what it’s called. So you still don’t get to make shit up to fit your narrative.

    And ridicule of spelling? That’s not ridicule?

    That wasn’t a simple spelling mistake. It was a complete misuse of words, which demonstrated you really weren’t as familiar with the term you were trying to apply (incorrectly, as it turns out). It was an attempt to seem more educated and worldly than you are — and it revealed your ignorance. Ignorance isn’t the problem. Your inability to admit to (and address) your ignorance is.

    Tony! The Queer Shoop! asked you many valid questions back in #47, which you still haven’t addressed. The most important are:

    Who is disadvantaged, how are they disadvantaged, and who is doing the disadvantaging?

    Answer that one set of questions, and you might make a start at defending your assertions. Otherwise, you’re just making baseless assertions. Which falls under “making shit up to fit your narrative.”

  68. zimbazumba says

    Tethys, They used similar verbiage to describe the Civil Rights movement in the 1950′s and early ’60s. As Goebbels’ 1st rule of propaganda says:- “Demonize the Enemy”.

  69. says

    Rey Fox:

    You know who else is a grass roots movement fighting the establishment? Westboro Baptist.

    And you know who else? The Tea Party. (Backed by the most established of the establishment, of course.)

  70. Tethys says

    They used similar verbiage to describe the Civil Rights movement in the 1950′s and early ’60s.

    Wow, dude! Didn’t I say exactly that a few comments ago? Just out of curiosity, what civil right do you think you are fighting for here in the comments section of pharyngula?

    As Goebbels’ 1st rule of propaganda says:- “Demonize the Enemy”.

    1st rule of being a decent human being- Don’t emulate Nazis.

    *btw- Caeser was doing this to the Celts back in year 60CE, and Rome did it to Carthage before Rome became an empire.

  71. zimbazumba says

    @Avo, also nigelTheBold. Thank you for your angry words and your defense of the establishment through your red herring analogies. It is odd as people age they become the very people they fought when they were young.

    (p.s. My allusion to Cognitive Dissonance was bang on the mark and you know it. :)

  72. says

    zimbazumba:

    Since you can’t seem to answer straightforward questions, let’s see if I can summarize it for you.

    Let me get this straight. A university finally recognizes it has a sexual assault problem on campus. They wish to figure out the extent of this problem, so in an effort to collect data, they set up some tools for self-reporting.

    Now, where’s your problem? That the establishment (meaning the university, I guess) recognizes they have a sexual assault problem? Or that they are trying to collect data? Is it the recognition of a problem that’s oppressive, or the collection of data?

  73. says

    zimbazumba:

    (p.s. My allusion to Cognitive Dissonance was bang on the mark and you know it. :)

    How so? You made the assertion, but have presented no evidence it’s true. It’s just a bald assertion with no backing data. In what way has anyone here demonstrated cognitive dissonance?

  74. zimbazumba says

    @Avo, also nigelTheBold , Oh nice re-framing, bravo. He who frames the debate wins the debate? Try harder.

    I have enjoyed ‘debating’ you all. Adieu, Joyeux Noël and please think of those less fortunate than you. For there are many.

  75. says

    zimbazumba:

    Oh nice re-framing, bravo. He who frames the debate wins the debate? Try harder.

    It was a chance for you to explain yourself, to offer an actual logical argument, rather than bald assertions. I note that you refused to answer even one of any of the questions put to you by any commenter here. Instead, you equivocated.

    I have enjoyed ‘debating’ you all.

    I’m at least glad to see you recognized you offered no debate (what with the irony-quotes and all). Next time, at least attempt to back up your bald-assed assertions with some kind of logic and evidence. That’s what we like to call “rational discussion.”

  76. Rey Fox says

    Who was that Brave Hero? Awed I stand as he mounts his steed of empty rhetoric and rides off into the sunset…

    Anyway, I got to go polish my jackboots so that I may properly continue to serve…whatever it is that I serve.

  77. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    The fact remains these are mainly undergraduate students protesting actions by the Administration that would be supported by the DOJ and other powerful political forces.

    Citation needed, or nothing but blather from a fuckwitted idjit. Your opinion is dismissed due to lack of evidence.

  78. says

    Rey Fox:

    Anyway, I got to go polish my jackboots so that I may properly continue to serve…whatever it is that I serve.

    Apparently, you serve the Totalitarian, Oppressive and Iron-Fisted Regime of Data Collection and Problem Analysis.

    Who knew?

  79. says

    zimbazumba:

    @Tony! The Queer Shoop!, you are having a hissy fit and a bout of the vapors.

    Asking you to provide the evidence for and the reasoning behind your beliefs is ‘having a hissy fit’?
    I wasn’t aware that MRA delusions ran so deep.

    The fact remains these are mainly undergraduate students protesting actions by the Administration that would be supported by the DOJ and other powerful political forces.

    Assertions are not evidence.
    You’re speak as if you know the facts. If so, you must have links to the relevant facts. Provide them, or admit you’re making shit up.

    This is the epitome of a David and Goliath story, regardless how you attempt to re-frame it.

    No, you delusional troll.
    MRAs are not standing up for a reasonable position. You might be aware of that if you could explain what your beliefs are (which you’ve avoided doing thus far). The beliefs of MRAs are not something that one should strive for. They are not fighting to advance equality, to end discrimination or combat bigotry.

    The actions taken by MRAs like you have intended effect of silencing women.

    You may remember that at the heart of this is the reporting of rape. Rape is a horrific act committed by one or more individuals [usually men] against [primarily] women which is a huge violation of bodily autonomy and a huge act of dehumanization. Reasonable actions taken to help reduce the incidence of rape-such as an online campus form for tracking rape-should be embraced. The victims of rape (remember, they’re primarily, but not exclusively, women) are those being oppressed. MRAs like yourself seek to maintain the status quo, or even reverse it, so that women continue to be oppressed. You’re in way over your head attempting to fight for a vile, anti-human position.

    Incidentally, when you learn how to present an argument, rather than make assertions, it is good form to provide evidence to support your arguments. For instance, when I say that 1 in 6 US women have been the victim of rape, I present the following:

    1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).1

    17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.1

    9 of every 10 rape victims were female in 2003.

    http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims

    See there.
    I made a statement about reality. Not an assertion.
    I provided evidence in the form of a link that can be easily followed by anyone to confirm what I’ve stated.

    Your turn assclam.

    P.Z. Myers and his crew, ie you, would have been the first to send the riot police in to bludgeon the students of the 1968 Paris Riots.

    Once again, an assertion with no supporting evidence. I dismiss it not just b/c it’s fuckwitted, but b/c PZ and most of the commentariat here condemn such violence.

    And btw to the rest of you, the ridiculing of the uneducated is a common pastime of the establishment and its elites. Like many young men of this generation university was denied me.

    Your level of education has not been questioned and is not relevant to the discussion. Mocking you for your use of but failure to understand cognitive dissonance and Gish Gallop relates to your continued willful ignorance. You even provided links to the definitions, which contain examples of both. You appear content to live in a state of willful stupidity and ignorance. That’s worth mocking.

  80. says

    zimbazumba:

    (p.s. My allusion to Cognitive Dissonance was bang on the mark and you know it. :)

    If that’s the case, you should be able to show your work.
    I asked you back @74 to demonstrate what contradictory beliefs any of us in this thread hold. You’ve yet to do so.

    Still in over your head fuckwit.

  81. says

    Tony!

    I thought the troll would have lasted longer.

    Well, he had to go off and crow about his decisive victory, didn’t he? You can’t expect him and his persecution complex to sit around here forever.

  82. Al Dente says

    The fact remains these are mainly undergraduate students protesting actions by the Administration that would be supported by the DOJ and other powerful political forces.

    Interesting that the Men’s Rights subreddit included so many Occidental College undergrads. Who would have guessed?