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Sep 19 2013

News that does not surprise me a bit

For the first time ever, I am neither surprised nor disappointed by a case of sexual harassment, because it’s exactly what I would have expected. The Insane Clown Posse is being sued for sexual harassment.

Now all this other crap that’s been going on…are there more juggalos among atheists and skeptics than I would have suspected?

35 comments

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  1. 1
    Akira MacKenzie

    “Human decency? How the $&@# does that work?”

  2. 2
    chigau (違う)

    If the Insane Clown Posse evolved from KISS, why is there still KISS?

  3. 3
    postman

    Isn’t that devolved?

  4. 4
    vaiyt

    With the whole “Fuck science! Miracles! Magnets, how do they work?” angle, I doubt there are many juggalos among atheists/skeptics. They want to feel smarter than everyone else, not revel in their own stupidity.

  5. 5
    CSB

    @4: Surprisingly, I actually know one such individual. It is the lone aberration in his otherwise excellent musical taste.

  6. 6
    Brad Emery

    I’m not really surprised that Shaggy and J might be doing things like this. Interestingly, though, the only STUPID juggalos I’ve met have been internet caricatures (they’re picked on constantly on 4chan, or at least used to be, as I’ve not frequented the site for a couple years, now). Hopefully this will raise awareness among their community that all might not be wonderful in ‘lo land.

  7. 7
    Mike

    Damn, I already gave up Nugent, Anthrax, and Slayer. Now it’s ICP, Oh well, it’s not like they were real high on my list, and I still have Judas Priest.

  8. 8
    Brad

    I’ll just leave this here.

    So many confusing things out there.
    Get your magnifying glasses out Ninja’s and take a closer look at life.
    The world is full of magical mysteries puzzles unsolved since ancient history.
    Where does the sun hide at night?
    Did people really used to live in black and white?
    Is the world round? Is it flat?
    How come no one can tell me that?
    Like, what’s with Island’s, get more land!
    What’s with deserts, get less sand!
    What is Alaska?
    Who is Brazil?
    Isn’t a volcano just an angry hill?

    How did God think of dirt?
    Erasable pens, make my head hurt!
    Metal girls, iron, fire, how did they get my voice in a telephone wire?
    Why are pants, different than shirts?
    Fuckin, blankets, how do they work?

    The world is full of mysteries
    Yo, How does suitcases know where to met you, huh?
    So many magical mysteries.
    Are children small, or just far away?
    Why are there so many mysteries?
    Why do some mountains look like Presidents?
    The world – stop trying to trick us please!
    What the fuck is a clock?

    Now here is just a list of some stuff,
    Trees
    Swan
    Cape
    A horse
    Triangles
    Witches
    A different horse
    (horse, horse)
    Two horses.

    The whole world’s got ten thousand people.
    And Santa Claus created all of us equal.

    Ass-Dan’s kids look just like Ass-Dan
    And my two kids look just like Ass-Dan
    Open your mind and shut off your brain
    The mysteries of life can’t be explained
    So fuck you books we don’t need your tricks
    And all you scientists can suck on dicks.
    Its all magic, ahhh, yeahhhh, ninja’s, life is a beautiful thing, ha, ha! Ass Dan Fresh 2010. Ha, Ha, I’m gonna live forever!

  9. 9
    throwaway, never proofreads, every post a gamble

    They had a song titled “Bitches.” Featuring the notorious feminist Ol’ Dirty Bastard.

    Yes, it is as horrible as you are imagining it would be.

  10. 10
    chigau (違う)

    Brad #8
    Why?

  11. 11
    throwaway, never proofreads, every post a gamble

    Point being: it seems to me that the more readily someone devalues another based on their gender (and how casually they do so) the more likely it is that that someone will act with disregard to that other person.

  12. 12
    =8)-DX

    Dudes and dudettes, I highly recommend reading the court filing – it is highly insightful. As far as I can tell, ICP will strongly regret treating an attorney employee in the way they have.

    I also learned a new phrase – “hedonic damages”. Shit, so if someone treated me bad and I was a US employee I could sue them for intruding on my drinking and cavorting?

  13. 13
    marinerachel

    Aw man, I’ve had to give up the ICP and Wu Tang. What the hell is there left for me?

  14. 14
    Brad

    @10 It’s a parody from an American sketch comedy show.

  15. 15
    Catrambi

    Were people really under the impression that the Wu-Tang Clan were feminists?

  16. 16
    carlie

    But, but… everyone who makes songs about choking bitches and everyone who so enjoys those songs about choking bitches says that of course the music isn’t reflective of their real-life views on women!

  17. 17
    rogerfirth

    If the Insane Clown Posse evolved from KISS, why is there still KISS?

    The only way ICP could evolve from Kiss would be if Stanley, Simmons, Criss, and Frehley gorged themselves on Mexican food, shit in a big pile on the ground, and spray painted it black and white.

  18. 18
    =8)-DX

    @carlie #16

    But, but… everyone who makes songs about choking bitches and everyone who so enjoys those songs about choking bitches says that of course the music isn’t reflective of their real-life views on women!

    Good point. But then plenty of people enjoy songs and films and books and computer games about gangsters murderers and wars and betrayal and violence and blood and gore which aren’t reflective of their real-life views on the world. Most people can dinstinguish between reality and fiction. Much worse are those who enjoy certain kinds of art because of their disgusting real-life views.

  19. 19
    jeffj

    @7, Mike:

    Oh no, what did Anthrax do to get lumped in with the Nuge and Slayer?? I always thought they had an ethical bent to their lyrics, messages of peace & tolerance and so forth, and still consider them a bit of a guilty pleasure.

  20. 20
    carlie

    Most people can dinstinguish between reality and fiction. Much worse are those who enjoy certain kinds of art because of their disgusting real-life views.

    Yes – what I’m complaining about is the set of people who say “well, what did you expect? you can see it in the music they write!”, but who also say “but it’s just lyrics, they don’t really mean it”. Have to pick one or the other.

  21. 21
    Rip Steakface

    I don’t listen to ICP and I never intend to – however, do I really have to give up a band I like because of some stupid thing they said or did? I don’t think Slayer or Anthrax’s music can be diminished by dumbass things they say unless those dumbass things put the songs/lyrics in a new light (e.g., covert racism made overt). I’ll gladly give up Ted Nugent, since he wasn’t that great in the first place, and he’s said plenty of incredibly awful and stupid things over the years, but have other bands fucked up as bad as he has (is that even possible)?

    I mean, shit. People listen to Burzum, and Varg Vikernes is a racist fuck that straight up killed a guy. Mind you, that’s pretty much the only reason they’ve ever heard of Varg Vikernes, but nonetheless.

  22. 22
    stwriley

    When I first heard of Insane Clown Posse, I naturally thought the name was meant to be ironic, but unfortunately they were actually practicing truth in advertizing.

  23. 23
    The Mellow Monkey

    From the linked article:

    Juggalos are basically America’s pop-culture Roma—we tend to see them inbred, drug-addled thieves searching for their next rape victim.

    How delightfully appropriative. Yes, let us compare the plight of predominantly white American music enthusiasts to a persecuted ethnic minority.

  24. 24
    David Marjanović

    Aw man, I’ve had to give up the ICP and Wu Tang. What the hell is there left for me?

    They Might Be Giants.

    From the linked article:

    *headdesk*
    *headdesk*
    *headdesk*
    *headdesk*
    *headdesk*
    CRASH
    *headfloor*

  25. 25
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    do I really have to give up a band I like because of some stupid thing they said or did?

    You don’t have to do anything.

    I’m not Giving up Miles Davis and he was a giant fucking asshole.

    The difference I see with ICP it’s not that they do something outside their music that is offensive and harmful, it’s that their entire persona is built around being violent, misogynistic fuckwads who encourage the lowest-common denominator in their fans. This article highlights the connection.

  26. 26
    Ryan Jean

    So, I guess the next ICP song will contain the following lyrics:

    F**king consent, how does that work?
    And I don’t wanna talk to a feminist.
    Y’all f**kers want respect, and getting me pissed.

  27. 27
    gussnarp

    OK, I haven’t finished the article, but seriously, this writer talks about defending Juggalos and how nice they all are, but also says this:

    She also gave me probably the best advice I got the whole week: if a Juggalo says “woop woop!” to you, you sure as hell better say it back.

    Look, here’s the thing, I don’t think you can really defend any group where a warning like, “you sure as hell better…” is necessary in the first place. That sounds like an implied threat of violence to me. There’s just no defending that. No matter how many really nice Juggalos there are.

  28. 28
    =8)-DX

    @carlie #20

    Have to pick one or the other.

    Reminds me of the Bible – lots of violence and rape in that one, yet somehow people manage to pick and choose – some bits are taken as examples of what NOT to do, some as what TO do.

    Not the bible is exceptional art, but I think good art manages to do that – express disgusting and violent things in ways that make us think, that lead us to reject them. A song about wanting to harm women should make a person disgusted, should point to the inhumanity of it. Um. That’s all.

  29. 29
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Mike, #7

    I will always love Judas Priest for one thing. Other bands sold out, but JP stayed honest, telling their own stories from the heart. When they were in their early 40s, many people had thought they’d lost it, lost the ability to bring in the younger, enthusiastic crowds that were willing to blow $35 (hey, it was 1989) on 2 hours of live music when they couldn’t find $300 bucks in a month for rent and had to live in their parents’ basements. But instead of failing ingloriously or selling out, they looked inward for the inspiring stories that resonated in their own lives. And when they did, those 45 year old metal heads gave us one of the most haunting, melodic, and truly meaningful songs to ever be played on the radio:

    “We don’t need no parental guidance.”

    I get all choked up just thinking about it. Honestly. For meaningful, gut-wrenching truth reflecting the artist’s own experience, it even puts Billie Holiday’s “Strange Fruit” to shame.

  30. 30
    zibble

    @29 Crip

    It’s not as bad, but I was really disappointed to see Rob Halford comment inanely on the Chik-fil-A issue. Judas Priest has always been a Christian metal band, and while it was empowering to know in earlier, more ignorant decades that gay men could be badasses (and I love that he’s permanently influenced heavy metal iconography with gay leather fetish), Halford has become the sort of insulated, moneyed gay who doesn’t really understand homophobia but still feels the need to comment on it.

  31. 31
    spondee

    ICP= GWAR for metal fans without a sense of irony.

    I will alwyas play Sad Wings of Destiny when I want to hear, again, the birth of metal.

  32. 32
    Rip Steakface

    You don’t have to do anything.

    I’m not Giving up Miles Davis and he was a giant fucking asshole.

    The difference I see with ICP it’s not that they do something outside their music that is offensive and harmful, it’s that their entire persona is built around being violent, misogynistic fuckwads who encourage the lowest-common denominator in their fans. This article highlights the connection.

    Well, I don’t imagine it’ll be difficult for anyone here to never voluntarily listen to ICP again. That sounds more like a reward. I’m just saying it feels like others are going to get on my case for listening to Anthrax and Slayer despite whatever transgressions they have made.

    Buddy Rich was an asshole too, though, so I guess we can’t avoid asshole musicians. At the very least, we can support the ones who aren’t (Steve Harris comes to mind, along with Brian May).

  33. 33
    marinerachel

    By the way, I never actually perceived Wu-Tang as feminist. I’m no more surprised to hear the ICP accused of sexual harassment than I am to know the ODB was a total loser parent and husband. I thought I was being ironic or clever or something.

  34. 34
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    I’m not surprised one bit — has anyone here actually read their “lyrics”? It’s all about killing people, mostly “bitches”, in various horrific (though creative) ways.

    And their followers take that shit way. too. seriously.

    Like, to the point where the FBI has classified the Juggalos as a violent gang.

  35. 35
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    WMDKitty

    Yeah, they kind of seem like the contemporary equivalent of the Jokers gang from Batman Beyond.

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