[Lounge #400]
This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Hey, is that a naked little old man over there?
Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
rq:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:19 pm
Oooh, portcullised!!!
What is that?
Eck. Well, of course youngest child is perfectly fine to fall soundly asleep and be placed in his own bed, fever and all, after I’ve finished watching the movie and typing all comments one-handed (ok, fine, it was just the second half!). *sigh and mumbles about children and sickness and inconvenient times*
Anyway, it’s rather late, so I’ll haul myself off to bed. Good night, and happy Groundhog Day!
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:21 pm
Good night rq and yay for the youngest being able to sleep!
rq:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:22 pm
(I’m going to go make the best of it while I can! ;) Thanks for watching the movie with me, Parrowing!)
subbie:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:23 pm
President Obama commemorates senseless violence of Holocaust, National Review defends Nazism.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/339003/president-obama-commemorates-senseless-holocaust-eliana-johnson
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:24 pm
400
we should have a party!
—–
anonymouschristian
are you still with us?
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:27 pm
It was a great idea, rq, so thanks for suggesting it!
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:31 pm
Clicking through, I’m glad to see that this claim is false.
(It is a cheap shot at Obama, though.)
Beatrice:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:32 pm
I’ll be off to bed too.
anonymouschristian,
People here come from all over the world, so someone is always hanging around here. Whenever you feel like talking, drop by.
As you can see from all the goodnights, there’s a bunch of us from Europe. If you’ve gone to bed already, and read this in the morning, feel welcome to start a conversation.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:33 pm
“It” being the National Review piece.
subbie:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:37 pm
A slight exaggeration, perhaps, but they did refer to the platform position that “no Jew can be a member of the race” as “non-senseless.”
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:37 pm
NRO were defending the “sensible” Germans who were persuaded by Nazism. Because the nazi-commie-muslim pretender in chief called the Holocaust “senseless violence”.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:38 pm
From previous thread:
Anonymous Christian
I used to have similar problems with lashing out and yelling as you’ve described; therapy did help me, but so did being ina situation where I wns’t being teased and harassed; so, not entirely helpful, but I do sympathize.
Re: the acne, have you consulted a doctor about it? That kind of chronic, sever acne can sometimes be caused by and underlying issue, and will fade if that’s treated; I’m not a doctor, and I can’t offer any better advice than that, but I would recommend you see one if at all possible.
On that note, acne itself is not an insurmountable barrier to romance, despite what your friends tell you, nor is being [perceived as] overweight. (I say perceived as because the standards by which people generally judge such things are completely arbitrary; if someone is sufficiently obese that it causes medical problems, that is legitimately describable as ‘overweight’ in a clinical sense, but that’s pretty much between someone and their doctor.) If you’re looking to feel more healthy (Which will not hurt your moods at all and may well lead to some increased confidence in yourself), look into a hobby that involved activity; cycling, walks in the park/around the quad, possibly enroll in a dance class through the PE department at your school. If you do the latter, you are also likely to be popular in the class, particularly if the dance form involves paired dancing; the population of such classes is usually skewed heavily towards women, and men who attend often get put into a ‘provisionally not an asshole’ category. In other words, it’s a good way to meet women in a non-threatening environment and start to develop relationships. (Note: It is vitally important to also not, in fact, be an asshole, but from what you’ve posted it doesn’t sound like that should be a large issue for you.)
I do know what this is like, but unfortunately I have little advice to give other than to be open to the possibility that it will happen again. IME it does, although still pretty rarely. I don’t know what else to say on that one, but if you want hugs from an internet stranger, they’re here.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:39 pm
chigau,
It’s Lounge #46.
Or if the 400 is imagined to be since the beginning of the argument, this is more like 402 or 403. I forget exactly; ask Chas.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:40 pm
Well, the Republicans have been Crypto-Fascists for decades, I guess the ‘crypto’ part is finally falling off.
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:48 pm
ॐ
PZ (AKA The Boss) sez it’s 400.
Good enuff fer me.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:50 pm
Lets, see, ground pork, bread, onions, garlic, tomatoes, eggs, and a trebuchetload of spices. Time to make some “ground hog” for groundhog day.
carlie:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:54 pm
DAMMIT PORTCULLIS!!! *shakes fist*
anon:
My first thought is that you need to get the heck out of that geographic location and to a bigger college in a bigger city. I know that might not be feasible, but that sounds like a small, tight group of cliques that you’re describing; at larger colleges especially, people don’t really care about making fun of others the way they do in high school; there’s much more of a live and let live attitude, and more people around total means you’re more likely to find people who match you. If you can’t get out entirely, are there other colleges around where you can go looking for extracurricular activities, or take classes to transfer in now and then? I imagine you feel most comfortable in a church-type situation; there are often religious organizations at colleges that have students from several different churches, and you might find both people who are more warming and welcoming and maybe even a new church to go to that is better for you. Even if you can’t get away, you might be able to change the circles of people who are around you.
I apologize for the crassness, but the whole time I was reading your comment I was thinking “fuck them, fuck them, who do they think they are, they don’t have the right to treat you that way, and boy are they in for a rude awakening when they hit the real world and find out that not everybody falls into ‘top dog’ and ‘pick on’ groups”. Seriously. There is nothing wrong with you. Everything you’ve described are things that the majority of perfectly average people go through, and all those people around you are small-minded jerks.
It probably sounds like punting for us to tell you to go to professional therapy, but what that does is gives you a way to look at the world differently, it gives you someone who can help you put a longer perspective on things, help you plan for what you want to be in a few years and how to get there. Think of it as a hand grabbing yours and helping you up the first few steps of a ladder that is a bit wobbly and cracking on the first rungs, but is solid and good from there on up if you can get past the beginning. Yes, the school therapists are being paid to be there, but the way to look at it is that they’re working for you. Their entire job description is “help students”. And if one of them isn’t helpful, it’s ok to “fire” them and get another.
Please, keep any of these numbers in your phone. Program it in now and give it a code name. If you feel shaky or like you have no one to talk to, call. These are people who are trained to help, who want to help, who want to talk to you.
Helpline 1: 08457 909090 (UK local rate) or +44 1603 611311
Helpline 2: +44 (0) 8457 90 91 92 (UK minicom)
Helpline 3: 1850 60 90 90 (ROI – local rate)
Helpline 4: 1850 60 90 91 (ROI minicom)
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:56 pm
It isn’t senseless. It’s evil, but it has substantive content and there was a deliberative reason for it. Senseless violence is more like when a bystander is accidentally shot.
I see no moral defense there. It’s just true that they weren’t stupid, weren’t acting randomly, and weren’t tricked. Nazism did win a lot of people over by persuasion.
Comparatively, World War I was far more senseless.
Of course, yeah, they wouldn’t have complained if Bush said it. But the White House’s statement is pretty shallow; it does lack any serious reference to why the Holocaust happened.
Nightjar:
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:57 pm
Anon Christian,
Hi! I just read your post and I’m afraid there’s not much else I can say or do to help you right now, but I just wanted to let you know that I’m listening. This is a good place to vent and to chat and I sincerely hope you will get something positive out of commenting here. As Beatrice said, there are people from all over the world checking here everyday so it’s pretty much guaranteed that someone will be here to listen and to be supportive whenever you need to talk.
I’m in Europe too so I’ll be off to bed soon, but I’ll check here in the morning. I hope to hear more from you.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Yes, the statement was a platitude. That is a given. There is no reason to expect a Christopher Browning style discussion of why ordinary people backed the Nazis and committed their murders. But the NRO and other group are so reactive, they see no reason in not defending a people who committed a grievous crime.
Rey Fox:
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:56 pm
They have a point here. I don’t think it’s the one they’re trying to make though.
Hey everybody. Jeez, 400?
ckitching:
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:24 pm
That ignores the other sense the word senseless is often used: to say something is foolish, or stupid. In that context, the genocide of German Jews was a senseless tragedy, because it could not, and would not fix the problems in German society.
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:01 pm
anonymouschristian – Welcome to our Lounge. I don’t have any advice to offer that hasn’t been given by others above, but we are always willing to listen.
Improbable Joe:
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:13 pm
Hey folks. Back from the outdoors… we made it back safe! BossNurse got the damned Coach purse she wanted, not because it was a good idea but because they were 50-60% off. :) We visited the Official SpokesGuitar. We had an entertaining time at a jewelry store talking to a manic watch aficionado. We had sushi for lunch, and picked up some shrimp that I’m going to fry up in about 20 minutes. After dinner, we’re going to watch a movie or something, while my wife plans next weekend.
There’s a club we’re thinking about joining that meets next weekend. We might have to leave the house again!
bluentx:
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:16 pm
Lynna @721, previous thread:
“Seal up your ports!”
Now she sends out the alert ?
Woke today to an ‘allergy attack’. Sniffles persisted even after the drugs. Now wondering if it isn’t more than originally thought.
I have sooo much to do on my upcoming days off! I can’t get sick now! /whine
-
Movie timers:
Setting The Princess Bride & Groundhog Day aside for said days off. Couldn’t join you on first run as coffee was just kicking in at start time and I wasn’t yet functional. :) I’ll pretend my viewing time is like having HBO where they show the same movie over and over and over and… (Good excuse to take breaks from chores, too.)
-
On (1) making Glenn Beck cry and (2) setting up the commune in Texas:
What doesn’t make GB cry? and… ahem… ” BUT I WANNA GET OUT O’ HERE! “
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:20 pm
Rey Fox
There is some dispute.
see #13 above
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:27 pm
When you include alot of non-gluten flours in your bread, it takes ALOT of kneading to make loaves.
a lot of kneading
I’m exhausted.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:28 pm
blueintx
Well, aside from it being in the U.S., I still like Oregon. There’s a whole empty block not 2 miles from where I live, that’s been empty for better than a decade now and no sign of use. The neighbors are warehouses and a garage, and a few of them might be available too in a longer term fashion for when we expand. There’s significant potential in cob and rammed earth for initial development, it cant get to at least 3 stories and can be put together by semiskilled labor. Further, it’s easy to get rid of if it becomes imperative to put up something else instead. Assuming that room is left to garden, there should still be room for a few dozen people, and if we work with some aeroponic and hydropinic systems, we can do better than that (Assuming folks are willing to settle for apartments, with some larger spaces being communal to some extent). In the longer term, converted and expanded warehousing has significant potential, and if we can get a large enough plot of land, I’ve been playing around with some designs for a for real arcology (designed as an adjunct to a city, not independent, but it might serve for a small town on its own) for several years now.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:30 pm
On this note, if there’s a Unitarian Universalist center nearby you might want to try attending a service. I’ve been told they vary a bit, but the one I have experience with is essentially a general humanist society – not secular humanist, but focusing on the common values of humanism among secular humanists, Christian humanists, deistic humanists, “spiritual-but-not-religious” humanists (I suspect the latter type is a plurality if not a majority among attendees), and so forth, which retains many of the organizational, procedural, and aesthetic elements of “church” as it is generally experienced in Western society. (I actually attend my local one weekly, with my daughter). Supportiveness and openness are core values, as is the inherent worth and dignity of every person.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:34 pm
That’s actually probably very good advice, and not something that would have ever occurred to me to suggest. All glory to a diversity of viewpoints, eh?
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:51 pm
We need the Commune to be migratory.
Or two locations: one in the Northern Hemisphere and one in the Southern Hemisphere.
Continuous vegetable crops and continuous snow-sports.
bluentx:
February 2nd, 2013 at 9:04 pm
Dalillama
Oregon sounds pretty good to me.
If necessary we could build up. Up, as in tree houses. No,seriously.
(Now, what was that guy’s name?) There was that bank robber who used much of his booty to finance his tree house project. There are pictures/video of it/them. It was amazingly elaborate and rather beautiful. He was in Oregon or Washington state so I know the trees there can take it . : )
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 9:09 pm
and a wee reminder (if anyone needs one) of why Maureen Brian has an Old-style Molly.
link
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 9:13 pm
I spent the day (between bouts of bread-kneading) at cakewrecks.
I think I’ve seen them all…
bluentx:
February 2nd, 2013 at 9:18 pm
Thanks for pointing that out chigau . That post goes to the top of my catch up list. And yeah Maureen is pretty awesome*.
-
Not a word I use lightly.
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 9:23 pm
OK.
No.
I just found the full archive.
wow
Jafafa Hots:
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:09 pm
Today is Groundhog Day.
This morning we found one dead at our door. True Fact™.
I’m not sure how much more winter this means, but I don’t think it’s a good sign.
Jafafa Hots:
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:10 pm
(ok so maybe it’s more of a gopher than a groundhog.)
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:13 pm
Jafafa Hots
Didn’t see his shadow, did he?
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:21 pm
Groundhog
louismorelli:
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:22 pm
The weird thing is that this guy, like yours grandfather and yours son, are younger than you. No? Let’s do some calculus.
The essence of biological systems is DNA. And Dna emergerd about, let’s suppose,1 billion year ago. Today it is 1 billion year old. When a hominid like this guy was born, 5 million years ago (?), DNA was 995,000,000 years old. This guy took his parcel of DNA and his DNA died 995.000.100 years old.Yours grandfather took his DNA when it was 999.999.930 years old. You did it at 999.999.960. Yours son, 999.999.990. Then, yours son is the oldest person of all. And you are younger than yours grandfather.
It means that humans lies not only about religion, but, about their age also. because which matter is not human as the observer interpreting time, the real interpreter is the Universe. And to the Universe you are the oldest here. Yours age today is 13,7 billions years, because yours History began with the Big Bang.
Solon, old man!
louismorelli:
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:26 pm
Hell, I did everything wrong. You are younger than yours son and more older than yours grandfather. Really it is difficult to re-organize these things that were so long wrong in our mind.
Jafafa Hots:
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:29 pm
All I know is that if the groundhog shows up dead on groundhog day it can’t be good.
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:29 pm
huh.
That was strange.
chigau (違う):
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:35 pm
louismorelli
We are very forgiving here in the Lounge.
But really, you need to try harder to do English.
or comment in your language of choice and we will attempt translations
—–
Jafafa Hots
Maybe … weather … is… over?
Can that be good?
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:35 pm
Happy Imbolc, everyone!
Well… belated by a day, by the time most of you read this.
Spring is coming!
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:01 am
I get a comradbob feel with #41 & #42.
****
Chigau:
I do not do well in cold weather. My beauty is unsustainable in cold weather climates. Is there a hibernation chamber in The Commune?
Strom und Drang:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:23 am
anonymouschristian, I hope you are still here reading with us.
I can’t really adequately or eloquently express this, but I am so sorry to hear about what you’re going through. You deserve better. There is nothing that you are doing, nothing about you, nothing within you, that justifies the abuse you are receiving. Your bullies are assholes.
You sound like a good person. You support marriage equality and women’s rights even though those around you scorn you for it, and you are brave and proactive, coming into an unfamiliar community to ask for help. Stick around, anonymouschristian, and know that we wish you all the best.
If you are interested in another set of friendly online ears or a more advice-oriented blog, you might also check out CaptainAwkward.com. The commentariat there is excellent, and some of the regular commenters have been victims of extensive bullying.
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:39 am
Some musical introspection. Kinda what I’ve been going through. And, um, Bruce Dickinson, so, ’nuff said.
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:41 am
Erk. I broke something.
Try clicking here for video.
“Tears of the Dragon” is one of those tear-jerking power-ballads.
yubal:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:47 am
Today will be the 70th anniversary of the battle for Stalingrad. A symbol for the worst of the worst our species can inflict to itself.
I would like to encourage everyone to hold still for one moment and contemplate about all the needless loss of life we endured and all the suffering our species had to cope with during our history.
Please try to make this day (or any other day) special by giving one more smile and one more effort that would be necessary to make a fellow human being feel comfortable and appreciated.
Thank you
Y.
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:48 am
yubal
To the dead, then. *raises bong*
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 1:30 am
Good morning.
That’s two feverish children. Waiting for the third one to succumb.
anonymouschristian:
February 3rd, 2013 at 1:34 am
Hey. Yeah I’m still around. I live in England so I had to go to bed as well. I’ve tried appealing to the notion that I get out of that college and indeed even the area I live in, but our finances aren’t exactly that great and I just essentially get all the “It’ll get better” stuff despite the fact that I keep pleaing that it won’t. In terms of the other colleges around, there are Christian colleges, but the one thing both my parents and I agree on is that they seem a little too… fundamental for our tastes. With regards to the other secular colleges, from what I’ve read they apparently don’t score as well for exam results and quality of education as the college I’m at, and they too also appear to have rampant bullying problems, which means that even though in theory I’d be having a fresh start, the nature of the stuff I’ve mentioned means I’d very likely still become a target anyway.
I think there is a Unitarian Church around somewhere in our area, so that is particularly helpful. Likewise on the numbers Carlie provided. And I know it’s pretty much irrational to buy into what the tyranny of the majority (at least in my local area) has to say you, but when you get subjected to it for years and years, I ended up getting into the position I am now where you think maybe they have a point.
What really enrages me is my teachers. I do understand the “rehab of bullies” mindset, I really do, and I’d support it if there was any evidence my bullies were actually changing their ways. Considering how long it’s been going on, I really can’t understand why the teachers haven’t gone: “Okay, clearly this rehab BS isn’t working at all on these bullies, throw the fucking book at them”.
But yeah with Churches, the fact that my closest Church both geographically and emotionally let me down when I needed their help badly really shook my faith in the whole going to Churches as a form of aid thing. Especially since a lot of times they seem to care more about my LGBT and women’s rights positions and my liking of science too than what’s actually happening to me.
But yeah, this place seems to have comfirmed my friend’s diagnosis that I probably needed to go outside the box in terms of solving my depression, which I still have but after reading all the kind words has at least managed to insert some form of hope in my mind. I still feel suicidal, albeit less so after all the support I’ve gotten here. This has seriously helped a lot and frankly even having less of an inclination to do what I want to do is still a great leap. After seeing how you’ve rallied to help someone like me even though I don’t value myself at all, it baffles me how anyone can say atheists – especially of the secular humanists – are so “immoral”. Why does this accusation get tossed around so much? It’s ridiculous.
Thank you for your kindness,
Anon Christian
John Morales:
February 3rd, 2013 at 1:47 am
anonymouschristian:
It’s based on the idea that morality only comes from outside humanity, specifically, through Divine Revelation. Obviously, as atheists, we don’t believe in Revelation.
(Most of us atheists figure that there is nobody but us apes here; if we don’t look after each other, who will?)
bluentx:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:41 am
Good morning, rq:
Hugs for the kidos and a few more for Mom. Hope #3 does not succumb, nor you.!
pensnest:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:31 am
Anonymous Christian
I’m assuming from your terminology that you’re at at sixth-form (equivalent) college, is that right? Being stuck with your contemporaries, who plainly have not matured very much, is not doing you any favours, so it might be helpful to you to spend more time with a wider age range of potential friends, perhaps?
There may be an amateur theatre group locally – usually they are also keen to recruit younger people, and men of all ages are generally *very* welcome! Especially if you can sing, but actually, just being willing to show up usually goes down well. Or, as someone upthread mentioned, dance classes would probably be really good for you in lots of ways. Dancing is *fun* exercise, and actually makes you feel better; again, as a male, you’d be in demand; and… well, a lot of girls and women will find it remarkably appealing to have the opportunity to dance with a man who actually knows how to dance, and can lead. (I met my husband through ballroom dancing, so there’s an example of one.) Look for salsa classes, modern jive, ballroom and Latin classes, there are likely to be all kinds of options local to you, wherever you are in the UK, and most of them won’t be very expensive.
An alternative approach would be to find people who need your help. There are so many volunteer organisations that need people, and being able to help others could really help your own sense of self-worth. Please, don’t ever forget that you *have* worth as a human being. Personally, I would say you have far more worth than people who mock your seizures or send you death threats for being a decent person (those are the ‘moral’ ones, really? really?), and I suspect most of the others here in the Lounge would agree.
And let me encourage you to read more of the posts here at Pharyngula and elsewhere on FTB. You may find the comments a bit scary at first, but keep an open mind, because I’d say the commenters here are amazing and have a lot to teach, well, everyone.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:41 am
bluentx
Thanks. I’m hoping for the same. :/ I’d love to stay home all day and do nothing but watch bobsleigh, but we have to make a trip to the store otherwise there’s no dinner toniiight! I hate taking even slightly ill children out in public, because I hate it when other people do it. Here’s hoping it goes quickly!
anonymouschristian
I’m glad you’ve decided to stick around a bit, even if only to get a different perspective. I see there are several good recommendations for changing your people environment (dance classes, theatre, volunteering); I can only second all of those, as well as the recommendation to read around FtB, and to listen to all the wonderful commenters here.
Especially seconding this:
Because this is the only life you have.
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:58 am
anonymouschristian
Welcome.
I see that you’ve been given some very good advice so far. I really have nothing to add on that score other than my own experience.
I was a social outcast in high school, I’m assuming that you are in the UK equivalent of late high school. I had bad eyes, bad teeth and bad skin. I was into computers and roleplaying games. I had no interest at all in sports or cars. You get the picture. I also suffered from depression to the point where I made a very half-hearted attempt to kill myself. Well, it seems half-hearted now, at the time that wasn’t so clear to me.
Three things helped me.
First, I got professional help. I told my mother that’d I’d put a knife my wrist and pressed down ’till the skin broke. That tiny pain made me pause and in that moment I had a vision of her trying to scrub my blood out of the carpet. For all that I wanted the emotional pain to stop, I still didn’t want to visit even a tiny portion of that pain upon my mother. I was under a psychiatrist’s care within 24 hours of that admission.
I don’t think he fixed me. But I do think that having someone completely outside my life to talk to, someone with experience and training in handling people in my state for whom this was in no way personal, really helped. You see, telling family or friends made me feel guilty. I liked the fact that he was paid to listen because then I wasn’t imposing. Being able to talk about it all in a safe space with no reciprocal obligations being incurred was a great relief.
Second, I took up fencing. Weird huh? It makes a kind of sense in light of my interest in fantasy fiction and role playing. It’s a solitary sport which I really liked. It’s hard work and fun. For the first time in my life I was getting exercise and not hating it. It also opened up my social contacts to a group outside my school. One of the folks I met fencing invited me to meet his friends, all of whom also did role-playing games.
Which brings us to the tertiary and terminal point: I found friends outside my school. Those folks I met through my fencing buddy became my social circle. Sure they played D&D and so on, but they were all a year or two older than me and were out of school. There might have been beer involved in those gaming sessions. They might have helped me sneak into gigs and nightclubs despite being underaged. They were completely unlike everyone in my school and to this day I owe them a great deal.
Please understand, I was lucky. I might have fallen into a group of idiots and been dragged down in a direction that would have made me worse. I’m not offering this as panacea to your troubles. But I am offering it as encouragement.
The advice you got to get outside your current social circle was really, really good.
And here you are!
Here you are, actually doing it. That is fan-fucking-tastic. It’s a big step, and now that you’re moving I suggest you use the inertia inherent in any object in motion to keep on going. If you can find some activity that you enjoy, get involved. And while you’re doing so keep firmly in mind that these new folks DO. NOT. KNOW. YOU. They have no history and no expectations of your behaviour. And that is an opportunity for self-change.
At that first fencing class I felt like fraud. I felt like at any moment someone was going to say “Hey, you don’t belong here, nerd!” I felt like I was about to be policed in the way I always was at school. But those people DID. NOT. KNOW. ME. And that freedom to be whatever I wanted, whoever I wanted, was the first big step out of the dank, dark hopeless hole that I perceived my life to be.
It’s been a long journey, and one that I can’t say has always been successful, nor can I say that I’ve found my way to perfect mental health and happiness. But looking back I am so far from where I was that I can say with absolute assurance that I will never, ever reach those depths again.
In this one case, it really did get better.
I hope that it will get better for you too.
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:59 am
Good morning
Hi anonymouschristian
I’m glad you’re still reading.
Here’s something I found very, very helpful in dealing with my own issues.
The binary idea of body and mind is bullshit.
Your mental health is part of your overall health the same way your stomach health is part of your overall health. This idea of body and mind is deeply ingrained into our culture, the whole idea of the soul as something that is outside of your physical body is part of that.
And this idea hurts. It hurts you at this moment. I’m going to change your statement above slightly to show you what I mean:
You are right. A counsellor is paid to help you. Your GP is paid to help you. A counsellor is not supposed to be your friend any more than the surgeon who operates on your broken leg. My counsellor is not my friend, he’s not supposed to be. He cares about my welfare, because he chose that profession because he wants to help people the same way my GP chose that profession. His goal is to get my mental health to a point where I can deal without him helping me, just like my GP’s goal is to get me over the terrible cold I have.
Those very unhelpful comments from your friends and family are part of that body and mind thinking. Nobody would tell you “get over it” “don’t be such a whiner” “It will get better” if you break your leg. And that hinders people from seeking mental healthcare. You are not a failure for needing help, you are not weak for needing help.
That doesn’t mean that every counsellor will be good for you (some counsellors are idiots, too), the nature of therapy means that “the chemistry” between the two of you has to work and a good counsellor will always understand if you say you want to see somebody else.
Really best wishes
bluentx:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:10 am
rq:
Not that your darlings would ever be like this but..shopping…with children…
http://youtu.be/nojWJ6-XmeQ
I linked to this video on FB the other day. Among all the sickening sweet “My children are the greatest, most perfect on earth ” posts it didn’t get even one “like”. I wonder why? : )
-
When my son was about six–
We were out shopping. It was an “I want this..I want that..” kind of day.
Me: No, G not today. No, not that either. You have one just like that at home. No. No….”
We get in line to check out.
G: Can I have that? That? That?
Me: No, G. Not today.
Silence. Change of strategy.
Puppy dog eyes.
G: Mom..?
Me: Yes, G?
G: I love you…
Me: I love you to G… but you’re still not getting a new toy or candy.
G: *sigh*
I could see the cashier was trying not to laugh. Bet she’s been through that before too.
-
Shopping with one is hard enough…but two or three…and sick… I must have a medal of bravery around here somewhere…
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:22 am
bluentx, that made me laugh. The Small Fry has tried that one too.
Lofty:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:25 am
Fossil Fishy.
.
Yes.
.
School was hell. An outside hobby where no-one expected you to do anything other than do the hobby was my method of getting out of hell. Then I met my wife and 27 years later I’m still mostly mentally well and happy.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:41 am
Ooouy, bluentx, I have seen that commercial, and it springs to mind as a deep-seated fear of the potentiality every now and then. :/ That being said, I do have a good laugh about it.
The trip was mostly a success; the guy who parked right up against my car, not leaving me room to open the door to remove the child on that side (even though it was obvious we were unpacking), pissed me off even more. Because there were about 93248029384 other wide-open empty spaces, and 1 narrow one right beside me. *sigh* Yeah, it’s my problem for parking too close to the line on that side.
Asshole.
Giliell
You know, a lot of the time, you make a hell of a lot of sense. Like in #60. Thanks.
FossilFishy
You, sir, should be writing a book of Vignettes About Life.
Thank you for sharing your experience, and I’m glad you had the luck to grow out of it the better way.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:46 am
OH and I wanted to mention, re: children and their wiles.
Eldest hasn’t yet gone the I love you route, but he has pulled the all-my-friend-have-it and the I’ll-clean-my-room-for-a-week (this last one is about the only thing that works, because it happens retroactively – he cleans his room for a week, picking up without whining about it, and then the toy is bought).
Middle Child is working on the puppy-dog eyes, though. Big, blue, long lashes, *blingbling*. Prettyyyy pleeeeeassse?? I have grown a tough, hard shell of resistance to cuteness. But it’s difficult. ;)
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:48 am
Yeah, Giliell makes so much sense she almost managed to convince me to find a counsellor. I could do with some help… Maybe someday.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:10 am
O hai, Beatrice, I see we have boarded the same boat. :)
(Personally, the Lounge does a fine job in the interim.)
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:19 am
So does PZ’s beard qualify as full, philosopher, or unkempt?
mildlymagnificent:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:24 am
anonymouschristian,
Let me add my recommendation for http://captainawkward.com/. And not just the Captain’s posts, the commenting group is absolutely terrific most of the time.
But one caution. You’ll need to search for relevant items – use the Category Cloud for starters – because they’re not currently accepting new enquiries. But I’m pretty certain I’ve seen a few comments/posts addressing some of your issues.
Or just start reading from the current post backwards, skip the ones that are irrelevant to your situation. Another caution, the Captain will also do the same as the rest of us – see a professional counsellor. It’s usually the first item on her list of things to do when the problem is getting your head straight about something.
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:25 am
I’d say full beard.
teejaykay:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:31 am
Here’s something: I dreamt that PZ wanted to study my beard in order to better his via some arcane scientific process. He also expressed worry about how my eyebrows are greying.
This all at a pillow party full of pharyngulites.
teejaykay:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:32 am
Must stop eating pizza at two am apparently.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:44 am
teejaykay
Were your eyebrows greying the wrong shade of grey, or in a wrong pattern (outwards as opposed to inwards)?
teejaykay:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:54 am
Well, they are greying already in real life, so I suppose it’s just my subconscious telling me something. (They’re supplanting my dark ones after all, but I looked like Tolkien, yikes.)
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:04 am
ckitching,
This is a reasonable argument for how NRO’s reading of the White House’s statement was uncharitable and thereby misguided. Even so, NRO did not offer a moral defense of the Nazis.
+++++
louismorelli,
Your English is good enough. I can tell what I agree and disagree with.
Incorrect, because there was biology before DNA.
That is an interesting way of thinking about it.
The universe does not observe or interpret, so it does not have a perspective. The only interpretations which exist are in the brains of animals* because that is where perception and interpretation occurs. *I’m using the term animals loosely, to include analogous alien life.
I am not my DNA. “I” is a word referring to a person, and personhood requires having sentience. DNA on its own does not have experiences, and I did not have any experiences until several months after recombination, so I am only as old as my first feeling.
You might be able to say that some of the information, of which I am partly comprised, is older than my parents’ information. And this is an interesting perspective.
+++++
Tony,
No way. I am as certain louis is not bob as I am certain you are Tony. And if your name’s not really Tony, well, that’s a fluke; I’m still certain louis is not bob. :)
+++++
Anon Christian,
Thanks for checking in again. I hope you stick around.
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:11 am
OMGOMGOMG.
This is so hilarious. It’s a James Dobson abstinence PSA from the early 90s, starring none other than Kirk Cameron and his wife. here. You have to watch it if for nothing else than Dobson saying, with a straight face, “One slippage and you’re nailed.”. (the commentary analysis in the post is great, too)
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:20 am
carlie,
omg, the kid rolling his eyes *snort*
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:25 am
Beatrice
The close-up of the kid rolling his eyes. *more snort*
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:31 am
From 399:
No need to apologize. I was lucky and had a 3d grade teacher who taught me some tricks when it comes to number dyslexia — I read the number backwards (right to left) and then forwards (left to right) and it almost always helps me get the number right. I also have tricks when it comes to the checkbook — every deposit is rounded down to the nearest ten, every payment is rounded up to the nearest ten — so if my number does not end in a zero, I have made a mistake. It works.
And, compared to my major problems, screwing up numbers is really minor.
This Thread:
Oh, how cute. Gollum as a toddler.
One word: big mixer with dough hook. Keep an eye open at local thrift shoppes. Or cohabit with a weightlifter.
Well, it ended on February 2d. It started on August 23 when the first German units entered the city of Stalingrad.
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:42 am
Anon – thanks for checking in. I’ve been thinking about you since yesterday. I can’t really improve on some of the suggestions that have been made, so I’ll just highlight a couple :
pensnest’s suggestions at 57 are fantastic. It’s always easy to say “go find a volunteer group” or “go find something to do”, much harder to even know where to look. Those are great ideas on places to start. Your local newspaper/news outlet probably has a community calendar that has things listed, you could read through and see if anything sparks your interest.
Oh my goodness, is that a true true statement. I did a huge re-invention when I went to college, and again when I went to grad school. You can do that with other groups in your community. The suggestion isn’t to make yourself up into being someone different, it’s to be you without having to deal with the baggage of your past. A bunch of us were sharing horribly embarrassing stories of our past a Lounge ago (if you keep going to “previous thread” you’ll find it, especially if you search for “passing out”, “fainting”, or “throwing up”) – meeting a new group of people means nobody knows you threw up on the teacher in 7th grade and therefore call you “barfy”.
And depending on what you think you want, you can cast far afield. For peers and a good mix of ages, try a community theater group or hiking group or gaming group etc. If you kind of crave a bit of nurturing, find yourself a group of church ladies who quilt or knit. Most churches used to have them; they’re sadly becoming extinct, but there are probably still a few around. Head to their weekly group session, announce that you’d love to learn the skill if they’ll let you sit and watch and stay mostly out of their way, and honey, you will have as much doting on you as you can stand.
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:45 am
Talking about Stalingrad, apparently a Cossack military school has reopened in 2009. Boys there are ranging from 7 to 17-year-olds. The school is free, so that probably gives them opportunities they otherwise wouldn’t have, but military school for little kids… *shudder*
Sorry, the link is in french. http://www.lemonde.fr/international/portfolio/2013/02/02/le-renouveau-cosaque_1826130_3210.html
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:45 am
Damn. I just ate a fist full of wasabi peas* and it’s gone midnight. Ah well, bring on the weirdness! Why should my dream life be any different than my waking one. :)
Speaking of weird: does anyone want to jam?
I’ve been thinking that there’s a bunch of folk here who have musical leanings. (A slight tilt to the left and a propensity to circle widdershins if I’m not mistaken). We obviously can’t get together in a dingy basement with cheap beer and excessive volumes but there’s no reason that those who have the equipment to record things couldn’t swap files.
I love the idea of someone recording a basic guitar track or recorder melody or drum pattern or triangle solo or pipe organ passacaglia** and passing it on to be added to. The joy of this sort of thing is that if you don’t manage to come up with something you like well enough to share, it’s no big deal. And unlike jamming in real time there’s no pressure to be spontaneous, no judgement of things that might just need a take two or two to get right, or even just right enough to share.
Anyway, just a thought. I’m starting to feel the urge to music again, and in this here rural slice of Australian bushland there’s precious little opportunity to make good on that urge. And like most good urges the satisfying of it is more fun when done in groups.
*Yes, peas. And I liked ‘em!
**Seriously, anything would be cool. Musical training and experience are really not necessary for something like this. Just a willingness to have a go.
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:51 am
Oh, I should have tagged that last post with a goodnight. So, goodnight. I’ll stop in tomorrow to see if
my idiotic idea struck a chordanyone is interested.Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:56 am
anonymouschristian,
One suggestion I haven’t noticed among all the fabulous things people have thrown out there that you could try your hand at… taking a foreign language class. I don’t know whether there are any community or language schools in your vicinity, but if there are and if you are interested in languages, this could be a good idea.
You meet new people there and you will very soon have to talk to them about all kinds of things, to practice and learn the language. You’ll all be feeling awkward because you’ll be using a new language, so the awkwardness you may feel in communicating with new people will be less noticeable, even to you. It’s a good practice for those of us who don’t really know how to talk to people. You pretty much have some set topics, and your whole focus is more on getting the right word out than engaging in a witty conversation.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:59 am
And that’s all three down for the count. *sigh*
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:01 am
All three down for bed? Or all three down with an illness?
jose:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:03 am
Random thought:
Hunter-gatherers were and are largely egalitarian. Agriculture and stockbreeding created patriarchal organization. Therefore we won’t truly leave the patriarchy behind till we stop relying on those practices as the basis of civilization.
Sunlight and wind are everywhere: it’s not hard to imagine energy autonomy if governments went for it, leaving both nuclear and fossil fuels behind; but I can’t imagine an anternative, sustainable way to produce food.
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:04 am
rq,
I’m sorry. I hope at least you won’t get it from them.
Pteryxx:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:58 am
anonymouschristian: well I’m late but other folks were on duty to give advice and welcomes, so there y’ go. Hope you’ll continue to hang out here and say how you’re doing, because random critter on the internet does care. *offers optional anklehugs*
rq: yikes, sorry you can’t keep them all in individual isolation suits. Good luck.
—
random worthwhile reads, much happier than usual:
http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/super-bowl-sunday-somebody-give-this-man-a-high-five
Ayanbadejo is the player whose outspoken support for gay marriage led to a politician’s call to censor him, and then punter Kluwe’s famous sparkleponies rebuttal.
More happy and funny reading:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/bluecollaratheist/2013/02/03/nothing-to-see-here-move-along
(hint: it’s not nothing)
What a Chainsaw, a Sledgehammer, and a Machete Taught Me About Feminism
Rob Grigjanis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:46 am
Yubal @51
The fire is flickering in the narrow stove
Resin oozes from the log like a tear
And the concertina in the bunker
Sings to me of your smile and eyes.
The bushes whispered to me about you
In a snow-white field near Moscow
I want you above all to hear
How sad my living voice is.
You are now very far away
Expanses of snow lie between us
It is so hard for me to come to you
And here there are four steps to death.
Sing concertina, in defiance of the snowstorm.
Call out to that happiness which has lost its way.
I’m warm in the cold bunker,
Because of your inextinguishable love.
(Stalingrad by Antony Beevor (c)1998.
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:48 am
rq,
Sorry that your family is sick.
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:50 am
rq – when one goes, they all go. At least that way they’re all lying about, rather than having one that isn’t sick bouncing off the walls wanting attention.
birgerjohansson:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:06 am
I thought I should mention some music/lyrics related to space…or simply music that instills the sense of serenity you get from gazing at a perfectly clear starry sky / blazing Northern Lights. (I don’t think you can smoke anything that can make you feel like that :)
.
Tasmin Archer – Sleeping Satellite (Original Video) . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOqVQPq8zm8
Ground Control to Major Tom . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFks9A9TCF0
.
2001 A Space Odyssey -monolith http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1OZCHixR0
.
Solaris by Andrej Tarkovskij – Levitation (full scene) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcglyhUre4w
.
Don’t forget, were’ beautiful, like diamonds in the sky…
— — — — — — — — — — — — —
Picking a spot for the Evil Commune: Try a dramatic place, only accessible by a new-technology airship or cable car (in the latter case, I think you should go all the way and build a HQ along the lines of Schloss Adler)
El Capitano? 900m sheer cliffs around…
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:14 am
carlie
Ah, taking comfort in the little things! (You’re right, of course.)
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:17 am
By the way, birgerjohansson, you wouldn’t happen to know where on the internet I can get Tarkovsky’s Solaris with English subtitles? I keep finding promising ones, only to discover the subtitles are gibberish or in Russian (!!). If I knew Russian, I wouldn’t need the subtitles…
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:20 am
Improbable Joe
Thanks for the thought. I’m only hoping it’s not contagious to adults. And that it passes quickly. By the time Husband gets home, they’ll probably be right as rain and I’ll be the one wandering about the house moaning like a ghost.
Nutmeg:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:26 am
Hi, anonymouschristian! I don’t have any really new advice right now, although I’ll try to think of something. But I’m glad you’re here. And I second those who recommended Captain Awkward.
I definitely took the start of university as an opportunity to reinvent myself, and I’m glad I did. I went from conservative Christian to liberal atheist, and then a few years later I came out as gay. It all worked out fine for me, and I hope it does for you too.
***
So, umm, things may have gotten somewhat physical between me and L. last night. It was fun, I enjoyed every minute, I felt safe, we respected the boundaries we set beforehand, and I don’t regret it. But I am feeling a little “Oh my god! We did that!” today. I expected that, and I’m not too freaked out. But I’d still appreciate any advice or stories about dealing with feeling a little overwhelmed by a bunch of new physical stuff.
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:31 am
rq:
Hugs and sympathy.
Sick kids ain’t easy. But, as was noted, at least they are all sick at the same time. When I was in seventh grade, I got chicken pox. Oldest sister got them two weeks later. Middle sister got them two weeks after that. Six full weeks of chicken pox. Not fun for mom and dad.
ChasCPeterson:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:37 am
?
Any evidence for either premise?
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:38 am
Ogvorbis
Heh. We did one leg of the chickenpox circuit (two, actually) a couple of years ago. Eldest got it first, and we were excited (because chickenpox!!), and he had it easy – few pimples, etc., etc., what with being vaccinated and all… Then Middle (then-Younger) Child got them, and oh boy, we weren’t all that excited about the chickenpox anymore. When they’re everywhere, all the time (ok, fine, all the time for 2 weeks + another 2 for recovery…), and the doctor quarantines you, they stop being exciting. :)
So, yes, children being sick by tag-team is pretty nuts. Best part was, they both got over the chickenpox – then, a week after Middle Child was declared healthy, Eldest got scarlatina… That’s another 3 weeks of downtime.
Nutmeg
I’m not sure how to deal with the overwhelming feelings, but it all sounds pretty positively exciting! :) Does discussing with L in any sort of way help/feel like a possibility? And not in that oh-my-too-much kind of way (since that’s not the vibe I’m getting from you), but just like – oh-wow-intense!?
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:44 am
Anonymouschristian:
I can relate to much of your tale. Before I do though:
YOU HAVE WORTH.
YOU HAVE VALUE.
You deserve to be treated fairly.
You deserve to not be bullied.
You deserve to be judged by the content of your character.
I see that things look bleak for you now. I wish I had words of wisdom to say that could help. I wish I could effect some positive change in your life, but that too is a bit beyond my reach.
All that I can offer are words.
Words of compassion.
I care.
Words of hope.
It CAN get better.
Words of understanding.
You are not your acne. Your value, your worth as a human being is not determined by your appearance. Yes others may harshly judge you. Fuck them. You are so much more than a bad skin condition.
I know from acne. I still suffer from it. Growing up, it was one of the biggest barriers to my accepting my worth. It was also one of the biggest barriers to thinking of myself as attractive or even a decent, average looking guy. I used to think consuming sweets was the reason for my acne.
Cutting them out did not help.
I used to look in the mirror and despair because I could play a game of connect the dots with all the pimples on my face. There were so many times, as a teenager and adult, that I would not even want to look in the mirror.
I tried various products. None of them worked to my satisfaction. There were times I would see no flareups for a few days and scarring would be evident. I hated the scars, but they were better than the whiteheads.
I got so deep in self loathing that I started stripping at a gay bar to find external confirmation of my beauty (in my mid 20s). For years, people told me I was attractive. Men and women. Those compliments just didn’t seem to match what I saw in the mirror. Yet I continued down the path of seeking external validation for my appearance.
Stripping didn’t help.
Nor did compiling a list of all the peoe I could think of who said they thought I was good looking (no lie, I did this).
Added to all this, as a gay man trying to come to terms with my sexuality and entering the dating world…hoo boy it was overwhelming.
I have never had a relationship for more than 3 months. When I was younger (and even today to a much smaller degree) I would look around at happy couples holding hands, kissing, making plans for their lives together…and I would get this feeling in my gut. It was a pain that I cannot describe, but it wasn’t an actual physical pain. It was akin to feeling goosebumps erupt across your body. Or a sharp chill down your spine. That always accompanied my longing, intensely to be loved.
I am crying as I write this.
One thing that helped me was to try and understand that the perception of my appearance that others have is not going to match mine. People, for whatever reason, are attracted to the things they are attracted to. For years I struggled with trying to reconcile my view of my appearance with the opinions of others. It took me time to overcome that. To this day, I still occassionally scoff when someone says I am hot. Because there is that scared little kid inside me. Scared that my appearance is what I am going to be judged on. Scared that because I don’t match society’s expectation of beauty that I am somehow of less value than others. Scared that I am going to be alone for the rest of my life…because I am ugly.
Yes, I still feel that way sometimes. It is hard to escape that social training.
Two things have helped though.
1-
I embraced my attempts at tweaking my appearance in a different way. I did not make much headway trying to fix my face, so I worked on my body. I ate better. I drank more water. I started working out (this was in my mid 20s). This helped me tremendously (with the caveat that I knew I was trying to fit into another category of beauty society valued…big strong men…oooh gender essentialism). As I put on muscle I started looking at my overall appearance, rather than just my face. The change in perspective helped to overcome my insecurities to a great degree.
2-
Refining my belief structure. Taking philosophy in college led to my atheism. Exploring my atheism led to my views on social justice. Learning about queer issues, following politics, embracing equality for women, understanding global warming, paying attention to immigration issues, being made aware of the discrimination faced by trans* people and more…the more these issues came to my attention, the more I read.
The more I learned.
The more I raged.
The more I cried.
The more I vowed to show support for marginalized people.
All of that has resulted in a ME who has found value in the type of person that I am. I like myself. I consider myself a good person.
I am not my acne.
Neither are you.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:50 am
*Hugs* Tony
Anonchristian:
What these other folks have been saying, it’s good stuff. You’re worth just as much as a person as the people giving you shit, probably more since they’ve decided to spend their time being shitheads and you haven’t.
Nutmeg
I don’t really have any advice, but yay for things going well.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:52 am
Tony
*massive hugs*
I am reminded of my sister’s struggle with the same issue.
Also, you have definitely found your calling as a bartender – if what they say about bartending being another facet of psychiatry. ;)
*heart*
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:57 am
…is true… Missed the end of that sentence…
opposablethumbs:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:07 pm
anonymouschristian, I haven’t much to add to all the excellent suggestions and concern expressed by others upthread – except to say that I hope you find you can try some of these ideas, and I really hope they work for you. That there really are things worth doing that you can do to make a difference, and that you are worth it. And to say that I’m glad you came here; these are some of the most decent, good people I’ve ever come across anywhere.
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Tony:
Hugs, chocolate, bacon, whisky, grog, a foot massage.
Well said.
anonymouschristian:
I spent so damn many years, so damn many decades, feeling like I was hopelessly damaged, that there was something so wrong with me that everyone could see it, even though I had no idea what it was. I just knew that something bad had happened but I didn’t know what it was.
I considered suicide. I attempted suicide (and was treated for depression (which helped (but I never figured out why I felt like I deserved to be at the bottom of the world))). Suicide is an answer. It is almost certainly not the answer for where you are now. Nor was it an answer for where I was then.
About a year-and-a-half ago, while commenting here, on Pharyngula, I wrote that I had been raped and memories began flooding back. Sometimes coming so hard and fast that I was reduced to curling up in a ball on the floor and crying (luckily, my job allows downtime and there are places to hide). Insomnia, vomiting, the whole works. And I knew that I was a victim but it was still my fault.
Why did I think it was still my fault? Because the man who raped me also manipulated and coerced me into raping a little girl (I was 9 or 10, she was much much younger). I knew that I had made the choice to abuse her and felt utterly and totally worthless. I knew that I had done the unforgivable thing. And finally, after probably six months of people here telling me that it was not my fault, it was not my choice, it was the rapist’s fault, I realized they were right. It is still part of me, part of who I am, and that will never pass.
Which has very little to do with your situation except: your skin condition is not your fault. It is a medical condition that is a part of you. Regardless of your looks, you have value. Regardless of your skin, you are a thinking, feeling human being. Regardless of what other people say, and do, to you, you are a valuable individual.
Something else that was pointed out many times to me, whenever I started to feel overwhelmed by guilt, that I was a bad person, that I was evil for what I had done as a child, is that the mere fact that I can feel guilt and pain shows that I am human and, not only that, a better person than the one who abused me. The fact that you can see that what the bullies are doing is wrong shows that you are not only human but a better person than those who are bullying you.
Seek out a counselor at your school. Set up an appointment. During the first appointment, you could (and this is all your choice (I am not telling you to do anything (merely suggesting))) discuss with the therapist your concerns about therapists — that he, or she, is doing this for money. You will get an answer and that answer may tell you whether or not this is a therapist you can relate to in a meaningful and, hopefully, productive way.
This blog has a reputation for the ruthlessness of the commentariat. And I will not deny that we can be ruthless. On the other hand, you will seldom find a more caring group of wonderfully experienced people anywhere.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:17 pm
^^^^
What he said.
That was great Oggie.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:18 pm
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Lounge Addicts, take heed!
Pteryxx:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:25 pm
ducking in for a random call to alertness, pardon the interruption.
Via Ed, the organized anti-abortion groups in Wichita Kansas are attempting to block Tiller’s old clinic from being re-opened. They’re collecting signatures to present to the Wichita City Council at their meeting this Tuesday, Feb 5, starting at 9 am. I sent a note to the Trust Women group opening the clinic to ask if we can write letters of support or organize an online petition as counter. If anyone’s in Kansas or nearby, please consider sending a letter or email or showing up at the meeting if you can.
Public Agenda form (PDF link) with directions to the meetings. Speakers have to be approved the week beforehand.
Wichita City Council page
Ed’s OP: http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/02/03/the-hecklers-veto-in-kansas
More background: http://www.kansas.com/2013/01/29/2655359/late-term-abortions-wont-be-offered.html
Pteryxx:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:25 pm
and to dodge the link limit: Trust Women’s homepage and twitter.
http://www.trustwomenpac.org/
https://twitter.com/trustwomen
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:27 pm
I ♥ Tony and Ogvorbis. :)
Pteryxx:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:28 pm
and to dodge the link limit: Trust Women’s homepage and twitter @TrustWomen.
http://www.trustwomenpac.org/
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:36 pm
Ogvorbis
*rum and hugs*
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:37 pm
carlie, how do you do that little heart thing?
Nutmeg:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:43 pm
rq:
We talked about the possibility of me feeling overwhelmed beforehand and again just a few minutes ago, when she stopped in on her way back to the city where she works. She’s very understanding and easy to talk to, so there are no serious worries. L. said that she felt the same way the first time she did stuff with a girl, and she had to process her feelings for about a week before she was good to go again. She’ll be away for two weeks, so I have lots of time to get my mind sorted out. And I know she wouldn’t pressure me if I needed more time.
I’m going to have coffee with another friend sometime this week and talk about things, and I think that will help. It does help to know that lots of people feel/have felt a little overwhelmed.
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:43 pm
rq & carlie:
Thanks.
Nutmeg:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:44 pm
Also: *standing ovations* for Tony and Ogvorbis.
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:46 pm
Nutmeg:
Thanks.
Good to know that actually made sense
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:48 pm
Ogvorbis
A lot of sense. You should be OgvorbIQ.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:50 pm
Anyone need cheering up? Kitties!!! (I was actually searching for the image at the very bottom.)
And this is today’s laugh-a-lot photo. Filthy, filthy hobbitses.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:52 pm
Thanks all.
When I read anonymouschristians’ post, I immediately felt kinship to some degree and wanted to offer support for hir. Little did I know my response would act as therapy for me as well.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:56 pm
rq:
Ha ha ha!
Thanks for the kitties. The pastels cat cracked me up!
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:57 pm
I don’t have a lot to say except that yea, Tony and Oggie kick ass.
rq
♥ is ♥
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Or ‘Ogvorbick’?
Weird how it works that way. It kinda works that way for me, too.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 1:17 pm
sgbm:
Gotcha.
Btw, Tony is my real name. Well technically it is Anthony, but I have never gone by that.
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 1:23 pm
♥
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Yay! Thanks, Dalillama! ♥
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 3rd, 2013 at 1:45 pm
Tony & Ogvorbis
&heart;
beatrice and rq
Thanks.
You know, that isn’t something I grew up knowing. It’s something I learned, and I learned it mostly here.
I was raised in a world where mental healthcare was for “crazy people” (but alcohol was for responsible adults). I’m often wondering how life would have been if at my age my mum had been able to get mental healthcare. And I’m wondering what it would have been if I hadn’t been fortunate enough to stumble upon Pharyngula and the Horde.
Because me getting therapy instead of drunk isn’t some super-duper-extra-special achievement of mine. It’s the result of people working hard against the stigma of mental illness and needing mental healthcare.
If my posts help them I’m just paying forward.
rq
Sorry about sick kids :(
But your pictures don’t make it near the cutest thing I saw today. My BFF posted a picture of her holding her grandson (the baby born this week. Yeah, her daughter, the newly minted mum is my friend, but she’s my BFF).
She really looks at him like “I love you I love you I love you I’m gonna cry Can I eat you up”
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:01 pm
Giliell
I’ll take that over the cats. ;)
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:12 pm
PUPPY BOWL, PEOPLE.
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:21 pm
carlie:
I can’t find a stream :(
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:24 pm
Puppy what?
http://www.sportsgrid.com/video/puppy-bowl-live-stream/
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:25 pm
Parrowing: :( Not sure if they are streaming it live – here’s the official page.
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:31 pm
So, I’ve been wondering about something. I’m not super protective about my identity online. I’m findable if someone really wants to, which sometimes worries me, but I don’t think I can really change that now. However, I do prefer to have whatever control possible when it comes to my personal information being given out.
There is an older thread on Pharyngula that contains personal information of mine that I did not authorize being posted. The poster did not do this maliciously, had no idea that the info xe was posting was mine, and it would be a little bit of a stretch to think that someone trying to identify me would realize this was my info. That said, it makes me uncomfortable. I didn’t say anything until now because I wanted the thread to fade into the background so as to make it less obvious where the information is. Am I justified in feeling uncomfortable? Is this worthy of asking a monitor to contact PZ about editing away the info? Or should I just let it go?
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:39 pm
Thanks carlie and iJoe. Animal Planet isn’t streaming it and all the other streams I’ve found, including the one iJoe sent, are deceptive. It’s not actually the Puppy Bowl, it’s the “locker room” (backstage). Cute, but too much intermittent barking. Oh well, I’ll have to go looking for it tomorrow.
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:39 pm
Parrowing,
Even if it’s a stretch, it’s making you uncomfortable. There is no harm in asking a monitor to contact PZ about removing the comment or just your information.
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:52 pm
Parrowing,
I suggest you contact someone anyway. Better safe than sorry, right?
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:01 pm
Also, it looks like I’ll be starting my amplifier restoration project sooner than I would have liked to, and before I have the money to do it up the way I want to. One of the vacuum tubes has gone bad, which requires pulling most of the electrical guts out to repair. I guess I might as well do the cleaning and recovering and all that while I’ve got the thing taken apart. Dammit…
In the plus column, I was looking to buy a second amp but now I’m not going to need one. I found some sites that have schematics and such that will allow me to modify the amp I have to sound more like the amp I want. I’m also going to replace the red power indicator with a green one to more closely match the British racing green vinyl covering I’m using, because green is my signature color… [/Shelby]
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:03 pm
Parrowing
Definitely better safe than sorry. Even if it can’t be easily connected to you, the internet being what it is, it’s always a possibility, and if it’s making you uncomfortable, contact someone.
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:17 pm
Thanks Beatrice, iJoe, and rq. Soo…. how do I contact a monitor? Is there something like the bat signal for this?
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:22 pm
Well, I think writing this here was the bat signal. When a monitor sees your comments, they’ll probably check if you still want them to send an email to PZ and that will be it.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Parrowing:
Oh, they are around. There is a list of the current monitors somewhere among the tabs at the top.
Though I imagine you could just email PZ himself and request that your info be deleted.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:34 pm
Parrowing:
You don’t contact a monitor. They’ll contact you… *sinister music*
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:35 pm
Thanks Beatrice and Tony (Now I’m feeling self-conscious that my last three comments begin in the same way. Grrr, silly brain.) Yeah, I figured posting was the signal, just wanted to make sure. The monitors are listed in the Dungeon and I’m sure one of them will be around some time soon.
*
Sorry to hear about your kids, rq. I hope it wasn’t because we were sneaky with the ports. *hugs*
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:39 pm
Well, I think writing this made two of my comments start in the same way now too. :)
I do overuse well and so as sentence openers.
inthelemonlight:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:47 pm
rq
Sorry about the sick kids. Hope everyone gets well soon!
nutmeg
Yeah, I totally felt that way after my first time doing certain things. It had been just lovely, and I still woke up in the middle of the night almost ready to burst into tears for no apparent reason. I figure that the excitement, the nervousness, and the sheer hormones are pretty likely to mess with you a bit. The good news is that if you don’t have any regrets, then everything will probably just turn into good memories! Make a bit of extra time to relax and regain balance in order to compensate for the surge of emotion…and keep practising. * winks *
anonymouschristian
Seriously, you sound awesome. You come across as articulate, thoughtful, open-minded, and fair. These are all such fantastic things for any person to be, and they’re very desirable attributes in a partner. I know a guy who has pretty acute chronic acne, but I almost never notice that – not when he’s always so busy being perceptive and funny and deeply intelligent. I’d actually be very receptive to the idea of dating him if I didn’t happen to be taken at the moment.
I agree with other commenters that it sounds very much as if you’re the right person in the wrong environment. No one should have to be subjected to toxic social behaviour along the lines of what you’ve described! I went through a few similar things back in the day, and the good news is that it all came to an end when I moved on. Elementary and middle school for me were full of people who disapproved of my personality and interests. (A 10-year-old girl who loved math? Not. Even. Remotely. Cool. A 14-year-old girl who didn’t want to wear makeup? Even. Worse.) But all this meant was that I had to look a little harder than most people did in order to find some like-minded people to spend time with. Musical groups were a good start. A summer camp for kids interested in math, science, and engineering was absolutely amazing, albeit much too short. And university was absolutely glorious: it brought me to a whole campus full of lively, intellectually-minded, friendly, hard-working people. By the end of my first year, I noticed that I was feeling very socially satisfied (and never picked on!) for the first time in my life.
So, yeah, I agree with the advice that you could use a healthy social environment or two. This is a great start, especially since the Internet removes a lot of the conversational pressure. Are there nifty other forums dedicated to non-religious interests that you have? (Answer: yes, and Google probably knows about them.) It also might be worth looking for local groups of people who share an interest. Libraries often have book clubs or writing groups or arts-and-crafts circles. Is there anything happening through Meetup.com (or an equivalent) in your area? Last I checked, some cities had Meetup-driven ‘introvert groups’ that involve a mix of people who are shy or reclusive or not very good with the social norms gathering in a safe and non-judgmental group.
Above all, hang in there and keep at it!
(Counsellors and therapists and psychiatrists can be wonderful, but you have to find the right ones for you. Sometimes this necessitates a bit of trial-and-error, which can be frustrating. But I encourage you to keep looking if you’d like to find a professional you feel comfortable talking with.)
I could be wrong here, but I get the feeling that a lot of people in religious institutions look at the formerly-religious and jump to the conclusion that they left their beliefs behind because they couldn’t be bothered to try to be moral (and/or couldn’t be bothered to actually understand the Holy Text in Question in the ways that would please these religious leaders). It saddens me to see religious individuals assuming that the non-religious are amoral (or have arbitrary/useless standards for morality) when that’s so far from the truth so often. But I also get why morality without religion can be a tough concept to reach and explore when you’re in a position where the one has always been securely embedded within the other.
(everyone)
Hi! New here. Recruited by an offline friend, whose username I’ll most likely learn at some point. My own religious/spiritual views have decided to be irritatingly elusive for the foreseeable future, but I tend to get along well with intellectually-minded atheists since I’m a huge fan of critical thinking and science and rationality and all those good things. Yay! (I’m also a Ph.D. student in linguistics and I absolutely love what I do, so I’m standing by to weigh in on language-related issues. You’ve been warned.)
chigau (違う):
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:48 pm
Parrowing
If you leave a link to the comment that concerns you, I’ll send PZ an email.
Beatrice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:52 pm
inthelemonlight,
Hello and welcome!
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:55 pm
Thanks chigau, but I don’t want to link to the comment on the Lounge. If you are or another monitor is willing to send me an email, then I can send the link that way. My email is my nym (minus the backwards & upside down nym) at yahoo dot com.
*
Hi, inthelemonlight! Linguistics, huh? I might have some questions for you at some point. Not necessarily linguisticky questions, but questions about the process of becoming a Ph.D. student in linguistics. Not for me, though. For a friend…
Nutmeg:
February 3rd, 2013 at 3:57 pm
Inthelemonlight:
Thanks! I hadn’t even thought that the hormones might have an effect later on. (Anyone who knows about mammalian biology want to weigh in on that?) And I just realized that I seem to have PMS right now, which probably isn’t helping with the whole crazy feelings thing. For some reason, the primary feeling is most similar to what I would call burnout, which intrigues me. BTW, hi, inthelemonlight! You seem awesome and I really like your name.
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:00 pm
Parrowing – I’d suggest sending PZ an email directly, so you don’t have to get another person involved in knowing wht the comment is. If he doesn’t respond to it due to not seeing it in the flood of emails he gets, then maybe try a moderator.
Hello, inthelemonlight, welcome!
chigau (違う):
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:04 pm
Parrowing
carlie’s suggestion is even better.
Click on PZ’s name under his photo.
Be specific in your subject line
eg request for removal of personal information
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:10 pm
Also, sometimes his response is to simply do said action, so check for the comment’s having been removed, rather than looking for a reply email.
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Inthelemonlight, welcome!
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Ok, email sent. Thanks chigau and carlie.
Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:25 pm
Bah. Threadrupt. So threadrupt.
What have I missed in the past few days?
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:31 pm
Holy squid, he’s quick. The info is gone. Yay!
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Esteleth
You have incoming snail-mail. But I emailed you about that, so…. :)
inthelemonlight
Welcome! I am an armchair linguist specializing in Latvian. ;) That is all. Oh, and I have the sick kids, so don’t try to exchange anything with me via USB. (Thanks for the get-wells. Things should be looking up tomorrow.)
+++
I think Facebook just screwed up my internet experience. Boo.
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:34 pm
Yay!
thunk, hull overheating:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:38 pm
I have a feeling I’m going to watch both bowls at once.
:?
Also, I got a whole lot of college spam. Two mailers from U of Minnesota (one from Morris).
PZ is out to get me! Aaah!
rq:
February 3rd, 2013 at 4:57 pm
Right. This is getting ridiculous. I refuse to co-operate with the computer if it won’t co-operate with me. I’m going to bed; it can think as long as it likes.
+++
Moving next weekend. NEXT WEEKEND. I think I’m a bit nervous. Scared, actually. But in a good way. I think.
Good night!
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:03 pm
He has ultimate power, yes.
Happiestsadist, opener of the Crack of Doom:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:09 pm
*hugs inthelemonlight*
Yay! You’re here!
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:11 pm
Good night, rq. Eep (to the moving soon business)!
mildlymagnificent:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:33 pm
Kids sick? Chickenpox – fan.fucking.tas.tic Not.
When ours managed to get it the usual way, one down, then almost back to school, then the next one goes down, then almost back to school ….. by this time it’s late November and we discover mrmagnificent had never had it as a child. Sicker than any dog I’ve ever seen. He didn’t have a rash. He had layers upon layers of blisters, everywhere. All over his scalp, in his ears, mouth, you name it. I remember more of it than he does because he was delirious some of the time. He does remember trying to solve some maths problem or other by the novel process of reciting Blake’s “Tyger, tyger, burning bright” – that was a conversation better forgotten.
But the kids surpassed themselves a few years later. Slapped cheeks virus (parvovirus B19 for technical fussbudgets). I still remember the ominous words coming from my mouth when the doctor diagnosed the younger one’s rash. “Slapped cheeks? I’d say the other one looks more as though she’s got slapped cheeks.” Weeks later, I’m arranging distance education for #1 – and they are one of the most outstanding organisations I’ve ever dealt with. She was off school for 5 months, the other for “only” three months. Apparently it comes in the usual mild form – some lucky families get the ‘my feet hurt when I stand up and I want to go to the toilet’ version. So that’s the one we had to have.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:34 pm
Front page stuff – Chris could use a little support. http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/02/03/toe-stuck-back-in-the-water/
Portia, wishing for spring:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Hello Lounge,
Mildly threadrupt. Wall o’ Text to follow.
rq
Hope the kiddies recover quickly
Frozen yogurt varieties:
-Blueberry tart
-Watermelon sherbert
-Tahitian vanilla
-Mango
-Double chocolate
-Caramel pretzel
Sugary goodness! My friend said I looked much better (less sicky) when I left than when I showed up, so I’m thinking there were definitely therapeutic qualities!
And thanks for the (long-ago) well-wishes, my bread turned out deliciously. My aunt declared that it should be my new “specialty” because she wants it at every family gathering from now on : )
rq and Beatrice and Parrowing
I enjoyed vicariously watching my favorite movie : )
Tony and Ogvorbis
So glad you are both here. Lots of *hugs*
inthelemonlight
Welcome!
anonymouschristian
Glad you came here for all the advice of wonderful people wiser than I. I’m genuinely sorry your circumstances are so awful right now. But remember those last two words, they are key. Your present is not your future. It can get better.
`=`=`=`=`=`=`=`=`=`=`=`=`
So, S and I broke up last night. I have no idea what is going to happen from here on out, but there was a lot of crying and a lot of nose-blowing on both sides. He has recently started seeing a therapist and an MD and got a prescription for Xanax.(Approximately a year after I first recognized the need and encouraged him to take advantage of his excellent health plan…you can lead a horse to water). He told me, “I’m sick, and I need to get better.” I’m mostly sad and will miss him. We parted on friendly terms, though, which is comforting. I do want him to get better and I do want to help, not hinder, his fight through the depression and anxiety. I asked what he thinks he needs, and he said he needs me and my help, then had a “What am I doing ending this relationship?” moment. I talked him out of backing out of his decision, which was wrenching. I know he needs to worry about himself right now and I need to worry about myself. Not that I won’t worry about him pretty much constantly. I got him to stay over last night so that I wouldn’t worry about him driving home in a sobbing, depressive state.
When I asked what he thinks this will look like going forward (we have a lot of other types of involvements), he said he wants to help me out with whatever he can, and be there when I need him. I reciprocated the sentiment. I feel like what we ended up describing as our “new” relationship is close friendship. I wonder what will happen, but I know we will both be ok. I will be okay. I will be a little lonely, and I will miss the parts of our relationship that will probably end, but.
I will be okay.
Thanks for being a place I can get this out. I ♥ you all.
…and now I’m crying again.
Nutmeg:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:48 pm
*hugs&chocolate&friendlyanimals* for Portia
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 5:54 pm
inthelemonlight:
This is something else that is odd about the frustration I have with my acne. When I’ve looked in the mirror, it’s almost all I can see and I have to struggle to look past the scars. Yet, I’ve looked at guys who have acne, and while I’ve been aware of the condition, I can see past it. I have been attracted to several men with varying degrees of acne. I don’t know why I cannot do that for myself.
thunk, hull overheating:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:01 pm
No puppy bowl. Just superbowl watching. :(
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:06 pm
Tony…
You know who I think of? Edward James Olmos. That man has some really craggy facial stuffs going on. You know who else? Laurence Fishburne. And no one gives a damn, because when someone’s giving us something real, what they look like doesn’t matter.
Man, people love you. People you talk to online love you, it sounds like people who meet you in person for a few minutes love you and even give you plates of food. And the folks who have seen pictures of you say you’re not bad looking. So what if you have some scars. All of us do, and only a few of them are on the outside. We here, me included, love you anyways… so maybe you should cut yourself a little slack too?
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:10 pm
inthelemonlight:
Also, welcome to The Lounge! Be ready to accept support and encouragement at a moments notice. If you have a bad day, be aware that HUGS will often be offered. Times of great joy are often accompanied by offers of USBooze. In general, this community is wonderfully supportive and a great place to get advice on a wide variety of topics.
****
I met a cute guy (22 to my 37; I can’t pretend that I don’t notice the age difference. I need to work at not focusing on this as much) at the bar last night. It was my first time to get out and have a drink or two since I started this rollercoaster restaurant opening. It was fun. I managed to amuse him by channeling Oz (BtVS):
me: In a few minutes I’m going to ask you on a date and I hope you say yes.
him: So this is just prep to get me ready for the question?
me: Yep, I wanted to get you ready to think about your answer before I actually ask you.
We shared a chuckle.
I have been texting him while watching the Super Bowl commercials, and just learned that he and I share similar views on gun control. That’s a check in the good column.
****
Portia:
Sorry you and S broke up. Glad it was on amicable terms.
Sangria?
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Hugs to Portia.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:12 pm
Joe:
thank you.
::wipes tear from eye::
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:15 pm
On a completely unrelated note, I recall years ago the surprised expression a coworker had to my revelation that I don’t watch or care about football. His response, so dry and delivered so perfectly: “Football has tight ends and wide receivers. Gay men should love it.”
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:30 pm
On an entirely different note… Tony, would you like football more if it had tight receivers and wide ends?
I’m a terrible human being. :(
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:41 pm
Thanks, Nutmeg, I made one of these by way of comfort food .
Tony, thanks for the thought, I may drink my sorrows away a little tomorrow.
Ogvorbis: *hugs* gratefully accepted.
I asked him what we should tell people, because that prospect just sounds sucky to me. He said “I think it’d be easier to just delete my facebook…” and we both laughed. So true.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:54 pm
Inthelemonlight
Hello and welcome
Portia
*hugs*
Tony
Good to hear about the new buy in your life there. RE:Acne, L has chronic acne prblems as well, and has shimilar worries about their effect on his attractiveness, but, well, I certainly find him attractive :). And yeah, you’re a very lovable guy.
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Hey Portia, we love you too, you know? *hugs*
Breakups suck, and we’ve almost all of us been there… but as far as they go, in the long term the amicable types are the less-terrible ones. It is going to be bad and it is going to hurt, but a lot of the pain is going to be bittersweet and then sweeter as time goes on. Sounds bad, but in my experience the really bad breakups are bitter and more bitter over time. And the bittersweet ones leave you in a better place for the next one, which is nothing to sneeze at. :)
You’re going to hurt, but you’re going to be OK. And we’re going to be here for you if/when you need it, and cheering for you when the next great thing happens.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:01 pm
Left-overs:
rq: Horses are contagious…like Ebola. If your offspring have contracted Them, they probably caught it from you.
Be ashamed.
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Portia: May your fears that you have contracted the plague be found to be seriously mistaken.
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Shrimp tempura!
*droool*
-
I think it’s one of those Species Vendetta things. Goodness knows, our vacuum cleaner has eaten our cats over and over again. The carnage never ends!
-
Texas is a dreadful place. If it isn’t on fire, then the Gulf is trying to enGulf it.
And it’s ugly, too.
And its mother dresses it funny.
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A cautious Welcome In for anonymouschristian.
The problem, imo, with Christian therapy/help-groups is that from their viewpoint, God is the Ultimate Fix for any and all problems…and if God doesn’t fix it, the only options are that you must for some reason deserve your misery—not true, btw—and/or there is nothing more that can be done; it is literally Hopeless. The alternative, that God cannot help is by definition impossible, and so long as you hold with an omnipotent Deity who can’t/won’t help, you are screwed—there’s no where at all to turn.
-
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dontpanic:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:04 pm
Hugs dropped on the table for all that need them.
—
Acne. Yeah, I’m 50+ and look like a stereotypical teenager. [Empathy]
—
I haven’t seen any reference here at PZ’s place so I want to bring everyone’s attention to something going on over at Scalzi’s Whatever blog. Want give Vox Day a good poke while contributing to some worthy causes? Scalzi has had it up to here with the Narcissistic Racist Sexist Homophobic Dipshit (NRSHD), so he’s pledged $ for every time he’s mentioned on NRSHD’s blog. Others are pledging too; if things go as expected $40k+ will go to RAINN, Emily’s list, Human Rights Campaign, NAACP and other similar organizations at the end of the year.
Ogvorbis:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:08 pm
By the way, last night, at the Japanese place, Wife had chicken tempura (excellent). I had surf clam sushi (good, very chewy), squid sashimi, yellowtail sushi, salmon sushi, and a really dark red fish sushi (don’t remember what it was but it was almost like raw beef). The food was incredible. The presentation was artistic. And the tea was weird.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:13 pm
I missed the comments about chicken teriyaki, but whoever is in charge of the meal plan in The Commune, please add me to the list of people who loves the stuff.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:14 pm
How many damn back up dancers does Beyonce *need*???
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:15 pm
Aw, Joe, I’m joining Tony in the “wiping away a tear” club. Thanks so much for the support,. My first big Relationship™ ended in bittersweet fashion, then after a couple years of friendship, I fell back in love with him. I scheduled a lunch to work up the nerve to tell him. Turns out he was also working up his nerve to tell me love-themed news. His was that he was seriously dating one of my good friends. So, I will trust you that most bittersweet breakups age into mostly sweet. I really hope that’s the case with us. Thankfully there hasn’t ever really been another person involved, since we’re both pretty monogamous. It’s just us and our emotional malfunctions!
`-`–`
Tony,
I like your “priming the pump” method of asking him out, that’s very cute : ) Hope that blossoms into exactly what you’d like it to. (And hey, S and I may have broken up, but it wasn’t the age difference that did it! (Why yes, I can make everything about myself why do you ask? (I’m going for Ogvorbis level parentheticals, here. (Though he sets a high parenthetical bar))))
`-`-`-`-
Ogvorbis,
Thanks a lot, now I’ll need to get some sushi. Sooooon. Glad your meal was so delectable.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:16 pm
IJoe:
Nope. You’re not a bad human being. You’re one of the good ones!
I’m bad because I occasionally enjoy scaring my cats with the vacuum cleaner… :)
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:16 pm
Tony: Her Majesty needs as many back up dancers as possible! These are just the few that were deemed worthy out of the hundreds of applicants : )
Thanks for alerting the HTS was on, it’s the only part of this spectacle that interested me at all.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:19 pm
this performance is serious athleticism. forget the damn football players.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:24 pm
Ok, now we have an inpsirational Oprah commercial…
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:27 pm
I have about had it up to ^^^^ here with these damn commercials with their heavily laced sexism!!!
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:28 pm
Yeah, that’s why for the first year in ages I’ve just foregone the whole thing instead of watching for the commercials.
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:31 pm
You could distract yourself by watching the racism in the commercials instead. :(
Hugs to Portia. Sounds like you’re handling it really well, though.
Seconding or thirding the view that interesting faces are interesting. The more character in someone’s face, the more expressive they look to me, and the more drawn in I get.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:32 pm
I don’t know Beyonce’s persona or attitude, but if so, it sounds like they misunderstood calls to “back that ass up!”
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:42 pm
Thanks for saying so. I feel oddly…mature. Or something. But I think it helps that I don’t feel personally rejected. Makes maturity a lot easier. And *hugs* back.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:43 pm
The Iron Man 3 trailer was no trailer at all.
That was a teaser.
I feel cheated.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:52 pm
My phone rebooted on its own five consecutive times, and so i took the battery out to try to fix it. And it isn’t fixed. It’s constantly booting up. Super weird.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:54 pm
Portia
Mine did that a month or so ago. It turned out that the only fix was doing a factory reset.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:56 pm
Dalillama:
That’s what S just advised. Sigh. Thanks for the tip. (And the hugs, I missed them earlier).
thunk, hull overheating:
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:57 pm
I;m sorry Portia. Hugsies.
As your nym says, you’ll be fine.
Also, I’m bad at noticing Super Bowl Racism. White privilege here.
There’s a half-power outage. I think the players are wusses, can’t play in the dim.
Get the metal halide lamps going!
Carlie: Who looks at faces? :p
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:14 pm
thunk:
I’m with you in not seeing the Racism in the commercials. I don’t doubt that it’s there, but I think my attention was centered on Sexism, resulting in being blind to the Racism. I would probably need it pointed out to me.
thunk, hull overheating:
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:19 pm
The Prudential commercial did a lot of data-fudging to make a misleading point. First, you don’t put space below dots on a histogram. Second, asking the oldest person someone knows is definitely not an average retirement age thing. Third, their sample’s probably not random. Fourth, lower-class people have managed to gain one year in life expectancy from the 60s. Eugh.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:22 pm
Thanks, thunk. Hugs appreciated : )
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:22 pm
aaaaaaand another sexist commerical.
Who knew a stud hot off a romance novel could beat a shark to death with his bare hands…
chigau (違う):
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:31 pm
How’s the game going?
dontpanic:
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:31 pm
Sorry, didn’t see that PZ had devoted an article to the Scalzi response to VD. Nevermind. Teach me not to refresh the main page.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:37 pm
cicely:
There was a commercial with a horse.
I thought of you!
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:40 pm
chigau:
I don’t watch sports, but I am paying attention to the game because I want to see the commercials. Apparently, San Francisco closed the gap between them and Baltimore.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 3rd, 2013 at 8:42 pm
iJoe: Glad to hear that the out-of-doors didn’t eat you.
:)
btw—I keep checking at your blog, but nothing seems to be happening, implying that it is still a Very Long Day Indeed.
*hint hint*
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This is a good idea, I think. At the very least, they are unlikely to be dogmatically hidebound, and only offering solutions that are compatible with hidebound dogmatism.
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Have we considered the possibility of an ocean-going Commune?
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rq: Did I not warn you about giving aid and comfort to the Enemy? You’ve exposed your young to Horses…and now you have two feverish children on your hands, with option on a third. (Child, that is. Not hand.) Why, oh why, must the innocent suffer on your account?
Either that, or they may have broken out with a case of peas. Check them for signs of photosynthesis.
(Also, *hugs&commiserations&encouragements*)
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FossilFishy: I does not haz improvisation skillz.
:(
If I ain’t got a score, I ain’t got nuthin’.
:( :(
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chigau (違う):
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:06 pm
I was thinking Amazonian tree-tops.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:08 pm
ocean going Commune?
Like Waterworld?
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:11 pm
rq – I hope everyone feels better soon. And good luck with your move.
Tony, Ogvorbis, and Portia – *hugs*
inthelemonlight – Welcome to our Lounge!
carlie:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:11 pm
Tony – one of the early commercials had a white guy from Minnesota talking in a fake Jamaican accent the whole commercial telling everyone to calm down and be happy, mon.
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:19 pm
Hey cicely, I’ll have a new blog entry up tomorrow just for you. There will be pictures and possibly an embedded YouTube video of something neat and cool at absolutely not directly involving me. :)
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:28 pm
carlie:
Oh, I see.
I have to admit, while I feel uneasy with cases like that, and I don’t deny that they could be racist, I don’t know if I fully understand *why* they are racist. I’m not about to get out there and deny the racism in such a commercial though. If PZ had a blog post on it for instance, I’d likely lurk and read, because there are many people out there who can articulate the problems in such a way that I could understand.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:30 pm
*manyhugs* for Tony. You are indeed a good person!
:)
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+1
:)
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Hi, inthelemonlight; Welcome In!
*chocolate*?
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Yay! I, on the other hand (not the Third Hand) will be watching The Husband and Son move an upright piano next weekend. And I’m not nervous or scared at all.
:D
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Portia: *hugs&chocolate&kittens&moarhugs*
I’m glad that you parted friends, though.
*evenmoarhugs*
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Haven’t seen it. I was just thinking of the mobility.
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iJoe: :)
-
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:36 pm
thanks cicely. I am scooping up all the lovely hugs and feeling a little less lonely :)
inthelemonlight:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:42 pm
happiestsadist
Ah, there’s my aforementioned offline friend. * hugs back! *
Parrowing
By all means! I’m more than happy to answer questions. (Also, that’s my favourite way of spelling ‘linguisticky’!)
Nutmeg
Thanks! (I wouldn’t mind an elaboration from the biologists as well, actually.) PMS sucks, especially when it shows up at inconvenient times.
rq
Cool! I don’t know much about Latvian, so I’d love to hear about any nifty features it has. Or how you discovered it, or pretty much anything about it anytime. * laughs * Good luck with the move!
Portia
I showed up a little too late to catch any of the backstory, but I’m so sorry to hear about this. Even if something is the right decision, it doesn’t mean it isn’t going to hurt, eh? Kudos for realising that you two need to look after yourselves before all else!
Tony
At least some of it is probably just what social psychologists call the ‘spotlight effect’: we expect everyone else to notice things about ourselves to the same extent that we do. But they don’t! So yeah, your acne probably isn’t nearly as big a deal to anyone else. Try to let yourself off the hook for feeling the inconsistency, though: it’s quite possibly just another quirk of brain and/or society.
Also, I just saw your second post. I’ve been warned! (And congrats on the fun date.)
(everyone)
Thanks so much for the warm welcome. I’ve heard so many things about how great this community is, and I’m feeling very privileged to have been invited into it! It’s taken me a while to fall into the habit of following the activity, but I hope to be around fairly regularly. Ooh, chocolate!
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:45 pm
Portia:
You missed a pile of hugs in the Library. They are resting next to the Carafe of Sangria.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:52 pm
inthelemonlight
There wasn’t much backstory to miss, I don’t think. I haven’t talked about it much here because I’ve probably been avoiding processing it, : ) I appreciate the commiseration. The right choice is so often the toughest one, that’s for sure.
I’d also like to say I think you’ll fit in just fine here.
It’s so nice to have a name for this phenomenon! Thanks!
Tony
*scurries off to the Library, nearly smothers self in awesome hugs* …now where’d you put the Sangria, you scamp?
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:54 pm
From facebook: “Stabby now has a ring for each victim. Quaint.”
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 3rd, 2013 at 9:58 pm
inthelemonlight
I haven’t formally studied linguistics, but my dad teaches it, so I’ve picked up enough armchair knowledge to not sound a complete dolt when I discuss it.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:00 pm
intothelemonlight:
Not really related to anything you said, but this reminds me: does anyone else get easily distracted over certain things? I realized long ago, that when I’m driving, if I see a dog, chances are that no matter what I was thinking, or saying, I’m going to go “ooooh doggie”.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:02 pm
Tony:
I do. M trains of thought are really easily derailed. I often lose the train mid-sentence and have to go “Uh, I mean, er” Especially when I am supposed to be doing something productive.
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:14 pm
So I’m thinking I want the Lounge to be a room in the Clue mansion.
Who is going to play whom?
Mrs. Peacock
Wadsworth
Mr. Green
Professor Plum
Miss Scarlet
Yvette
Colonel Mustard (I picture Improbable Joe for this role, for some reason)
The Cop
The Singing Telegram Girl (I want this role. This was one of my favorite parts of the movie. Though I’d rather not get shot.)
The Motorist
The Cook
Sign up now.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:27 pm
Good night, all. thanks for all the hugs.
♥
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:31 pm
Be well Portia…
Tony, can I be “Corporal Asshole in the Music Room with The Ridiculous Military-style Knife”? :)
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:33 pm
IJoe:
Sure buddy!
chigau (違う):
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:35 pm
There was a Clue movie?
*goes to pffft*
.
.
.
pass
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:42 pm
Tony
*raises paw* Guilty. So, so guilty. Shiny things, kitties, string… and if it’s shiny string, gods help me…
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:47 pm
chigau:
Yes.
There was!
I *love* the movie Clue.
It’s humor that I like. Not toilet humor. Not shit that comes out from Jack Black, Adam Sandler, Jim Carrey et al…
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:49 pm
what about shiny string being played with by kitties…?
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:50 pm
Shiny string AND kitties!
*headasplode*
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:05 pm
BTW, I always thought a movie like Clue or really any other scary movie with a human bad guy would have been short-circuited by a guy like me. :)
After all, this is the stuff on my nightstand a few months ago. I’d be terrible at Clue, I’d either be the killer and kill my way to an escape. or assume that someone else was the killer and STILL kill my way to an escape. :)
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:12 pm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4776109/Muhammad-Alis-brother-reveals-family-feud.html#ixzz2Ju5dwVEh
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:14 pm
IJoe:
There are a few items that don’t fit. How do you kill someone with an iPhone, a wallet, or a watch?
Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:21 pm
Shiny string? I once saw an interesting kite up over town, and decided to try to find the person flying it. I walked upwind of it, and could not spot the string, which puzzled me something fierce. Then I saw a shiny line in the air and realized that the string was clear monofilament, instead of white string like I was used to using and seeing. Tracking down the shiny string was very hard, as there wasn’t much to see except a glimmer from certain angles. Then I had to find a way in to where the flyer was, which I did. Then I had to deal with the fact that all this was happening in Indonesia, and I didn’t speak the language.
We smiled and pointed some, and I wandered off. I looked back a few times, just to see the shiny string in the sky.
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:32 pm
Tony:
Excactly… I AM IMMORTAL! :)
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:38 pm
iJoe
Ah, but do you have inside you blood of kings?
/too obscure?
bluentx:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:39 pm
anonymouschristian:
Should have said Hello! before but because I have no particular new advice I said nothing. (I”m taking notes from the others myself.) All I can say is keep reading. If I get any great insights along the way I’ll pass them on: )
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Hello! to inthelemonlight as well.
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cicely @ #178:
Not all of it. The Hill Country around Austin and further south is nice. There is a portion of Palo Duro Canyon State Park in west Texas I’ve been wanting to see. It’s said (and I’ve seen pictures) that the autumn leaf changes rival New England. A few other spots have their appeal.
Egad, cicely! Now you’ve got me defending Texas?! I knew you were a bad influence! Next I’ll be bad mouthing peas, cilantro and horses!
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*hugs* to Portia,Tony, and Ogvorbis. Did I miss anybody?
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Tony:
Suuurrre, buddy. That’s what my brother-in-law used to say.:” I don’t watch much sports. I only watch the playoffs.” What he didn’t say was he watched the playoffs of EVERY sport available on TV at that time. Football, basketball, baseball, Tiddly Winks… (okay, maybe not that last one) So many ‘playoffs’ it lasted year round and still meant “Hands off the TV!” every weekend.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:40 pm
Random list of Pet Peeves:
142- People that say “I love you” to their acquaintances or the bartender that’s waiting on them. You don’t know this person that well, and you certainly do not have that kind of relationship established. I don’t know how many times I’ve listened to gay men say “I love you” to someone. Tossing around that phrase so much, to the point that it is meaningless, is fucking annoying to me.
598- People who leave their shopping carts everywhere but the designated spots. I *hate* finding a parking spot and seeing a shopping cart in the way. I find it so annoying that carts are left in random parking spots…often less than 10 feet from the designated spot for collecting carts!
1033- Having to repeat myself in a conversation when I’ve made every attempt to speak clearly and articulate my thoughts to my audience. Example: Listing the salad dressings we offer to a table of 8, and only 7 of them are paying attention and the 8th needs you to repeat everything.
Improbable Joe:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:45 pm
WMDKitty:
I have no rival, no man can be my equal! Also, I have in my future another $6000 after my adventure in layaway fees. :(
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:47 pm
bluentx:
Actually, I don’t watch sports. It is an ongoing pet peeve of mine (should have included that above), but I am *sick* of people assuming that because I am a male bartender, that I watch sports.
No, I don’t fucking know who is playing.
No, I don’t fucking know what the score of the game is.
No, I don’t know what game is coming on and when. Nor, for that matter, do I care.
Yes, I have a penis.
No, I don’t care about sports.
I have watched some tennis before, as well as Ultimate Fighter. At least the latter has the benefit of some hot men. Though the mixture of violence and blood tends to dull the excitement for me a bit.
bluentx:
February 3rd, 2013 at 11:54 pm
Tony:
I was just teasing. And so at The Commune there will be at least two of us not discussing you-know-what. Yea! I could care less whose playing what or when. And yeah, too much body crushing and after effects.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:07 am
So I just had a barback tell a “joke” about how if Chris Brown did a greatest hits video, Rihanna would be on it. He said he told the joke for my benefit. My response “There is too much violence against women in our culture for me to find that amusing”. He didn’t haven’t a substantial response.
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 4th, 2013 at 12:09 am
Ah fucking dammit! The Small Fry started school last week. She’s had all of four days in ‘real’ school and already I have something to be angry about. Turns out they’re doing Brain Gym. Blargh. I asked her how much time they spent on it and she said just a couple of minutes, but who knows? She’s not the most reliable of witnesses.
I’m going have to talk to the principle. I hold no hope that I’ll change anything, but dropping a stack of refuting papers on his desk couldn’t hurt. At the very least it’ll set the tone of our relationship, and put him on notice that at least one parent is paying attention and committed to reason and evidence.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:15 am
FossilFishy (from your link):
EEEEEEEEEEEE!
Danger Will Robinson.
Danger! Danger!
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:22 am
In order not to dwell on “those lazy idgits” I try to imagine it was left there by some little old lady or man needing it as ‘walker’ and not being able to get back from the ‘cart corral’ easily without it. (Too Pollyanna of me?)
Now, when I see for myself someone doing it ‘because I can’ that’s when I want to …. I don’t know what but I want to do something to call attention to their rudeness.
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 4th, 2013 at 12:23 am
Oh I KNOW Tony. My plan is to point out what nonsense it is and suggest that they could better spend the time and money, on…..just about anything else. On the up side I don’t think it will do any harm really.
iJoe I look at that pic and my first thought is “Ohhhh, Dava Control Pick, I love those.” followed by “0.7mm Tortex?” Nice, if a bit floppy for my tastes and finally: “What that hell is that one on bottom, dammit I can’t see…”
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:39 am
FossilFishy:
Go get ‘em Fishy! If nothing else it will show the admin that you are paying attention to what’s going on at the school.
-
Tony:
Huh?
ednaz:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:57 am
Hey Tony, I like your response to the “joke” at the bar. *thumbsup*
-
Also, about being easily distracted –
My favorite Far Side cartoon shows the Vikings storming a castle and one looks down in the moat and says “Oooohhh goldfish.”
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Me As A Viking!! : )
ednaz:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:02 am
Hello Anon Christian,
Others have offered excellent advice so I will just say ‘Welcome to The Lounge.’
I’m glad you stopped back to chat again. The people here are brilliant and caring.
*hugs* if you like : )
ednaz:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:06 am
Leaving much ♥ and hugs for everyone. : )
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:23 am
Good morning
Big hugs to Portia
Tony
Over here you have to insert a coin, usually a 1 Euro coin or such to release the trolley. You get it back when you return it. Problem solved.
Fossil Fishy
Well, maybe it’s just a way to let the first graders relax a little and to break down class into smaller units. It can also work to get them into “work mode”. I know it sound counterintuitive, but if a certain set of activities always preceeds “working” then it becomes easier to focus.
Really, first graders aren’t cut out to work 45 minutes.
yubal:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:27 am
#90 Rob Grigjanis
Thank you. :)
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:36 am
Portia,
*hugs*
I’m sorry about the breakup, but it’s great that you are staying friends.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:36 am
Good morning!
I can say, with some confidence, that the effect of
Horsepeas seems to be wearing off, and their Vital Poisoning Essence seems to be leaking out the children’s noses in long greenish-yellow strings. Hopefully their bodies will reject all of it by evening and we can get on with our lives.Portia
Soooo manyyyyy *hugs* and a slice of chocolate fudge cake with extra icing. :( Breaking up sucks, but yes – doing it the amicable way is, by far, the best way in the long run. You’re not losing the person, you’re just losing the relationship (or an aspect of it, which would make more sense). I know you’re going to be ok, but know that I am (we are) always ready to listen.
Improbable Joe
You are like a one-man support group.
Tony
You, sir, are fantastic.
I have not seen the Clue movie, but since you have endorsed it, I might give it a shot. And then I’ll decide. But I’m so used to being on the other side of the law, you will never know it was me! At least, not from the DNA evidence. ;)
FossilFishy
You are brave, and I support your endeavour. I can only hope that, if such a moment arrives for one of my Children, I’ll be able to express the same amount of courage and confidence to at least express to the school management why Teaching Woo is Wrong.
re: jamming. Theoretically, I would love it. Practically speaking, I have two problems with it: (a) I suck (I’m with cicely here… write me a score, and I will play it!) and I’m out of practice (easily remedied); and (b) I have no recording equipment. That being said, I’m open to the opportunity to try/learn. (The lack of equipment does pose an issue.) AND even if I can’t participate, I encourage such a international Pharyngula jamming group to form, so that I can listen and enjoy some creative and innovative musical experience.
inthelemonlight
Latvian? I was born knowing it (it’s my first language). ;) My dad has had a huge interest in discovering its link/common origin with other, better-known languages (including Sanskrit, Gaelic, etc.), so I’ve soaked up a few things like that, plus random linguistics courses (up to Third Year) in university.
ednaz
I think that makes you a bad Viking… ;)
+++
sports fans
Have no idea about football, American, English or otherwise.
I enjoy watching cricket live (yes, I do).
I love watching skeleton (because Martins Dukurs – did I mention I spoke to him on the phone day before yesterday, totally randomly?), and most other sledding sports. Also equestrian events (see how subtly I tacked that on there?)
I like watching a bit of hockey from time to time, but I don’t cry if I miss a game or seven (not too much, at any rate!).
yubal:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:17 am
Today would have been the 100th birthday of Rosa Parks.
Why don’t you simply take the bus today and sit wherever you want to?
Yeah, that’s right. Wherever you want to.
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:20 am
Good morning, rq.
-
I’ve got nothing else at the moment. Except….Yea! It’s my Friday*! Only a couple more hours before freedom for three days!
Well, relative freedom. There is the housework, laundry,yard work, need to work on seedlings for spring planting,clean out the barn, cook and freeze some meals for next week, take the mower to the shop, tidy up the garage…but other than that…..
-
* No, I am not working off of Ogvorbis’ calendar.
opposablethumbs:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:29 am
Oh dog but I’m failing utterly to keep up. The last thing I was about to say before getting interrupted was to ask carlie if Child1 was still doing better (Um, yay otoliths?). (That’s how un-kept-up I am).
More hugs for Portia. I’m sorry you’re hurting (but glad at least it’s amicable).
Also hugs for Tony – and a hopeful yay for your new date! Yays and gastro-entomological butterflies, Nutmeg, and I hope your ongoing dating goes on well!
ednaz:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:35 am
WMD Kitty, I am glad you’re feeling better.
-
bluentx and Tony, Can the Hoodlum and I sit with you and not discuss you know what?
-
Portia, I am so sorry your heart is hurting. Devil’s Food Cake with white frosting coming thru your USB.
-
rq, Hee! : D Also, glad your little ones are feeling better.
I liked your racy poem from the other day.
*snicker*
-
inthelemonlight, Hello, and welcome! May I offer you a beverage?
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:53 am
ednaz:
Come on in but this may take some work. Soundproofing the room against those rowdy you-know-what fans could take some time. All that loud armchair quarterbacking/coaching gets noisy.
ednaz:
February 4th, 2013 at 4:22 am
bluentx,
hat – check
safety glasses – check
mask – check
holster – check
nailgun – check
workboots – check
-
I’m ready, blue! : )
ednaz:
February 4th, 2013 at 4:25 am
Well, blue, I better start tomorrow. ; )
-
Goodnight, All. : )
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 4:26 am
ednaz
That’s the way to work. Get all the equipment ready, so that you can start anytime… as long as it’s later. ;)
I can help with the sound-proofing as long as it’s child-proof soundproofing. Sometimes I just have to get away for a bit of quiet time.
And yes, I consider children-wrangling a sport. ;)
Good night!
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 4th, 2013 at 4:43 am
rq
Best wishes for the little ones. I sport a snotty nose myself…
Now, off to an exam. Wish me luck.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 4:56 am
Giliell
*pile of thumbs!* into Giliell jar for holding. ;)
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 5:04 am
rq:
As far as moving next weekend-here’s my contribution. A song I discovered in 198?. Every move since then it’s been a tradition to play it. Couldn’t find the original by Loudon Wainright III but this is a faithful cover: http://youtu.be/scGRtb8qk6I
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 5:28 am
bluentx
That’s an awesome moving song, thanks for that! :D
Maybe cicely has a suggestion for a piano-moving song (since we have Ye Olde Uprightte to pack up and bring along, too). Something besides the sound of axes in firewood.
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 5:44 am
Keeping tentacles crossed that you don’t “drop dead” : )
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 5:53 am
Hee hee. :) We’re counting on our strong buddies to handle that bit. And since we’re not bringing the washer or dryer or fridge along, I figure the piano should be a breeze.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:03 am
Tony re: Clue
Are you speaking of the 1985 film? Because I seem to recall a more recent film of the same name (based on the boardgame, too). But I don’t remember what it was called. (Or else I’m making shit up, or dreaming… who knows?)
pensnest:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:04 am
Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop, #182
Only three, provided one of them is Justin Timberlake.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:07 am
Set: http://www.setgame.com/set/puzzle_frame.htm
3 Mins, 12 Secs
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:23 am
Butting in:
All I see (IMDb.com) is the 1985 movie* and possibly one “in development” labeled- genre:’comedy, crime mystery’. No dates for release, cast info or anything else right now.
-
*BTW, loved
Dr. Frank-N-FurterTim Curry as the butler.rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:26 am
SGBM
2 min. 40 sec. :)
That’s an interesting puzzle-type game. First time I’ve seen it.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:28 am
bluentx
Yeah, I could only find the 1985 film, but I was pretty sure I read an article a few months ago about a new movie being made, and casting some famous actress as Miss Scarlett… I could be very wrong, though. I often remember reading things that don’t exist at all. *shrug* Guess I’ll just have to watch the old one! ;)
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:35 am
Then there was:this one.
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:36 am
Well that didn’t work. Rats!
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 4th, 2013 at 6:37 am
Good luck Giliell!
And your point is taken. That might be the way they’re using this Brain Gym stuff. But here’s the rub: they have to pay for that curriculum, and from the evidence it offers nothing much that a simple calming ritual wouldn’t do. Hell, in the Small Fry’s kinder when things were getting rambunctious and the teachers needed everyones attention they called out :”Hands on heads.” loudly. When everyone had their hands on noggins, they called softer “Hands on shoulders.” and finally quietly and calmly “Hands in laps.” Worked a treat the few times I saw it in action. No pseudo scientific bullshit, and no cost.
rq, possibly cicely and anyone else who might be interested, just maybe, kinda….
I can write music, but I was hoping to not make this all about me. Or more accurately, to make it about more than me. In my perfect world I’d love to be a part of a project where I wrote a chord progression. Then someone else wrote a melody for it. A third person took that melody and wrote a completely different set of chords for it and so on until a completely different piece of music emerges at the end. A musical game of telephone if you will. Looking at it now, that plan seems a mite ambitious. Oh well, at least I erred on the side of optimism.* :)
Anyway, if writing something is what it takes to do something creative with folks here I don’t mind giving it a go. Don’t worry about how good, or not, you are. For one thing, there’s a reason I fix bicycles for a living rather than making music. For another, I can guarantee that my composition skills are less well honed than the performance skills of anyone who can play a major scale on their instrument.
I’m pretty sure I’m only up for creating something simple that’s only a couple of minutes long at best. For a thirdly thing, there’s nothing at stake here except some fun and as mild a challenge as needed to get it to happen. Hell, if the only thing that comes of it is some folks pick up their instruments again, myself included, that’s good enough and then some.
As for recording, well, if I end up writing something what about playing the thing in a Google Hangout as a tentative end goal? That way all that’s needed is a web cam and microphone. I’m not sure though, does the magical Google tech allow for multiple sounds to be heard at once? The way the video feed jumps to the current speaker suggests that it doesn’t.
And let’s be clear here: this doesn’t have to be great, this doesn’t even have to be good. It just has to be fun for those involved. Remember that the recording artists that we hear are the tiny tip of the giant unheard mass of people who make music. No one should judge themselves by that commercial standard unless they are planning to make a living at it. To that end I suggest that Regression to the Mean would be a good name for this project should it ever come to fruition.
Thoughts?
Anyone else even remotely tempted and in need of convincing?
I’m willing to mail Tim Tams anywhere in the world should the need for bribery arise…..
And with that, goodnight. 11:30pm here or so and I really, really need a good night’s sleep for a change.
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:39 am
This one from 1976:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074937/?ref_=sr_2
bluentx:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:42 am
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Clue-Movie-Dropped-By-Universal-But-Hasbro-Is-Still-Making-It-On-Their-Own-26034.html
carlie:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:49 am
*sigh* Fuck all y’all! I love Set (I even have the card game), but it takes me forever. Today was 5 min 56 sec, and that’s just because I was trying so hard.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:51 am
bluentx
I was definitely not thinking of an older movie. ;) BUT. That second link looks promising, as in – more of what I remember. Thanks for that!
FossilFishy
Tim Tams??? You make this more and more tempting all the time.
That being said, your idea about writing bits and pieces in a long chain of telephones (as it were) sounds awesome – problem being I don’t write music (but mostly because I never learned). I’m kind of like Mr Darcy in Pride and Prejudice when he’s all like ‘Well I have never mastered the skill of conversing with strangers’ and then Elizabeth Bennett tells him he should just make a point of practicing more. But I’m perfectly willing to work out some background-ish stuff for songs I already know (long pulls of the violin bow, etc.), or playing stuff written (and maybe, if I feel confident, I might feel free to improvise/alter bits).
I’m quite game to try this out as a musical exercise, just have to figure out how to do the final concert (by the way, will we be uninviting people?), and get over the nervousness about not knowing crap about a process like this… ;)
Oh, I can write bad Latvian lyrics to a tune, if need be. And then sing them rather badly. Is that a skill that might be useful?
In the meantime, good night!
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:59 am
rq,
2:40 is a great first time. I’ll bet you can get down under a minute if you practice for a couple weeks.
Two more implementations of the game are listed at http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Set
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:18 am
SGBM
That is one addictive puzzle.
I don’t know if I should thank you or curse you. ;)
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:23 am
2:05
+++
Well, that exa could have gone better. The prof definetly wanted too many dates. I hate dates. The one I remembered was the only one she didn’t ask. And I totally messed up the last question by mixing up two terms. I can only hope I get some half points for giving the right explenations for the wrong term…
+++
Fossil Fishy
Yeah, it’s annoying as fuck, but given my experiences with GPs and woo, I’m not surprised that teachers fall for it, too. I mean, they might even get results because having rituals works…
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:34 am
rq,
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:43 am
Fine, then, SGBM.
Thank you! Curse you! *shakes fist happily*
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:47 am
Set
:P
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:53 am
hehehe
+++++
Beatrice don’t you dare say that’s the first time you’ve played.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:56 am
Beatrice
Well I haven’t turned off the popups. ;) So there.
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:57 am
sgbm,
It’s not. I was playing it somewhat obsessively the first time someone here linked to it, and lately only sporadically.
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:58 am
rq,
I haven’t either. So there.
But then again, it wasn’t my first time.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:01 am
Oh good. I was getting ready to yell “Everybody shun Beatrice!” :)
I’m glad that won’t be necessary.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:02 am
SGBM, I was all ready for that, too.
Beatrice, you have bought yourself some time. But that is all. ;)
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:03 am
*whew*
That was a close call.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:09 am
Ok, I have to go do stuff, so I should stop playing… Maybe one more round? Yes. Just one more.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:15 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazine/can-you-make-yourself-smarter.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back#Construct_validity
http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:22 am
Is it true? They found Richard III? Science, you rock my world!
(Too bad there’s no inheritance connected to the knowledge that one is suddenly related to an ancient king…)
opposablethumbs:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:37 am
Rats, I wanted to wish you luck Giliell but I see I’m too late – sorry it might not have gone as well as you hoped, and I hope it went better than you think.
.
Love the collaborative music idea, FossilFishy. Sadly I can’t read or write (and WHAT is the proper word for that, dammit? If we have words for illiterate and innumerate we damn well ought to have a word for not being able to read or write music) any faster than about one note a minute (and most of them wrong). I can learn by ear and usually make up harmonies to tunes that aren’t too musically challenging (as in, folk, pop or rock no problem; easy jazz no problem; even-slightly-challenging jazz – urk, you need to get a real musician now. Kurt Weill – yes please, if there’s a lot of time to practice. Classical – stick me in the chorus; I’ll be the woman singing the tenors’ part). It’s my Spawn who are the musicians, alas, not me. Damn, I wish my Spawn were Pharyngulite Horders, they could so do this. ::sigh::
dianne:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:52 am
(Too bad there’s no inheritance connected to the knowledge that one is suddenly related to an ancient king…)
Well, he’s probably got as good a claim to being the rightful king as the current royal family has. Arguably more since the current line is descended from an usurper. In a just world, that should mean absolutely nothing, but given that there is a monarchy still in Britain, perhaps he should make a claim…
mildlymagnificent:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:15 am
For those who’ve successfully moved pianos and precious antiques, this is the traditional song to relax and gloat about the fact you didn’t make a mess of of great-granny’s precious whatever-it-might-be and other people do.
mildlymagnificent:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:17 am
Whoops! It didn’t say it would automagically do that. Phooey.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:24 am
rq, Beatrice, ednaz, and Giliell, thanks. I appreciate you all being here. I really like the Lounge. I feel like it can’t be said enough.
FossilFishy:
I can sort of read music, for both guitar and piano. I have a guitar. It is woefully neglected. I might be willing to try to play again. :)
SGBM:
Nobody needs to shun me, that’s for sure. I take forever with puzzles, including Set. :)
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:25 am
Oh, and rq
Archaeology is coooool. That’s a fascinating article, thanks for sharing. I have a lot of Shakespeare nerd friends that have probably already seen it but whom I will send it to anyway :)
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:41 am
dianne
Maybe if I write to him and suggest it, I’ll get a cut of the proceeds (with acknowledgements and a Letter of Recognition for you)…? ;)
+++
Then I found this article on epigenetics (or at least a study about epigenetics), and the level of toxins absorbed having an effect in further generations (as diseases and disorders of various kinds). I dunno, at least they mention my usual peeve with these studies – they load the test organism with many times the level of toxins it would be exposed to in a regular lifetime, and then claim all kinds of conclusions from this kind of overdose.
I don’t doubt that plastics and many chemicals do have an effect on the body, and maybe even these effects can have a further effect in following generations (especially if the doses start adding up?), but sometimes I feel the results and consequent scare-articles are slightly exaggerated…
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:49 am
What Your I.Q. Means
116+
17 percent of the world population; superior I.Q.; appropriate average for individuals in professional occupations.
121+
10 percent; potentially gifted; average for college graduates
132+
2 percent; borderline genius; average I.Q. of most Ph.D. recipients
143+
1 percent; genius level; about average for Ph.D.’s in physics
158+
1 in 10,000; Nobel Prize winners
164+
1 in 30,000; Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and the chess champion Bobby Fischer.
(Sidebar of page 2 of third link from SGBM above.)
Now I’m wondering – did Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart actually take an IQ test while alive? Did he do it post-mortem? Or did they extrapolate it somehow? Which leaves me wondering… how?
(Yes. I seem to be doing a lot of very random wondering today.)
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:51 am
That would be first link, not third…
dianne:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:54 am
Maybe if I write to him and suggest it, I’ll get a cut of the proceeds (with acknowledgements and a Letter of Recognition for you)…? ;)
Yeah, I’m sure the Windsors will have no problems giving up their claim when a better one comes along. And genetic based decisions on who should rule have worked so well in the past.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:56 am
Muahahah Who wants to start another civil war in England? Hm? No one? Okay.
dianne:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:14 am
Who wants to start another civil war in England?
Well, their previous ones have been…messy. So probably not a good idea.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:15 am
dianne
You don’t think the Windsors are a fair-minded lot…? Or at least, tired of all this royalty crap? ;)
dianne:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:23 am
Interesting point, rq. It seems that Charles, at least, has decided that he’d rather do other things than be king (like, say, get married to someone he actually likes this time.) OTOH, I simply can’t imagine any of them getting real jobs.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:28 am
dianne
Wait.. What Harry’s doing, does that count as a real job? Or is that figurehead work? (I really don’t know.) The younger generation might get a real job, but I think you’re right about the older one – rest on the laurels of past generations and all that…
dianne:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:37 am
Harry’s doing something? The last I heard about him he was embarrassing the country at parties. Has he…actually managed to grow up?
Matt Penfold:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:40 am
He recently spent several months in Afghanistan flying Apache helicopters. When he came back he got into trouble for comparing it to playing video games.
Not sure if it counts as doing a real job.
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:42 am
dianne,
I read something about him bragging about shooting Talibans. Does that count as “growing up”?
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:42 am
…and I missed Matt’s response.
thunk, hull overheating:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:01 am
3 min, 14 sec. I play this game occasionally, but I just can’t see the things quickly enough, goddammit.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:18 am
dianne
What they said. I think he’s been back a couple of times, and in the last interview he complained about being in the eye of the press…
All I meant to say is that it seems he has a job. Whether he’s grown up is a whole other matter.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:24 am
It’s ridiculous. The person writing that sidebar, who I assume/hope is not the same as the author of the article, probably grabbed it off the internet haphazardly; there are a number of sites reporting his IQ at 165. But it’s got to be made up. The best estimate anyone could have done would be by testing someone who seems as smart as Mozart. Yeah.
For the readers who haven’t yet clicked through,
that is of course not why I linked to that article! D:
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:29 am
Dear Pharyngulite,
Do you still hate how the FtB sidebar was moved to the left side?
I bring you the “sidebar on right” script: http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Greasemonkey
Many have probably gotten used to it on the right by now, but I know this bothered a lot of people, so if someone could cross-post this message to PET, that might be helpful to others.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:29 am
I’m wiping everything off my phone in order to fix it. *sniffle*
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:33 am
Portia
Sympathies. That’s a pain.
sgbm
Yeah, but L complains when I install greasemonkey. (Not sure why, to be honest)
dontpanic:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:36 am
Tony,
Can I counter whinge about restaurants that make it impossible to find the list on the menu (which I’d prefer to read before the server approached to take my order) and servers who rattle off the list so fast that it slurs together like a single word. Fine, you’ve said it my dear server, now can you say it again slowly enough that my non-neurotypical brain can process it?
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:36 am
And all is right with the world again.
I did get used to everything being on the left, but this is much better. Thank you, sgbm!
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:44 am
SGBM
I know that’s not why you linked the article. It just caught my eye, and bothered me a bit.
I read through the entire article, though. Very thought-provoking (in all kinds of ways). Thank you!
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 4th, 2013 at 11:46 am
bluentx: I would, if pressed, reluctantly concede that there are parts of Oklahoma that suck in a less-than-complete way, and that are not entirely without aesthetic appeal.
;)
-
I would like to join Team Not-At-All-Interested-In-Sports, if I may. The only ones I find tolerable are figure skating and gymnastics, and those only fitfully.
-
Call it self-interest, but I appreciate a cart being handy to the handicapped parking spots, for precisely that reason. However, it should not be just abandoned in a parking spot, but parked out of the way of traffic.
-
A Horse up-side the head is not a subtlety, it is a blatantcy.
-
No suggestions for a Piano Moving Song—this will be the first time.
However.
-
Improbable Joe:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:48 am
I woke up this morning, and my face was bleeding… AGAIN! I think one or more of the cats are attacking me in my sleep. Awesome.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:49 am
Set looks fun. And addictive. I think I may need my laptop for this. The screen on my phone is a trifle small. It is so nice to be back in the Lounge. I was going through withdrawls.
Lynna, OM:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:51 am
There’s a petition to nullify the tax exempt status of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/nullify-tax-exempt-status-church-jesus-christ-latter-day-saints/h4QHm2w6
Ogvorbis:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:54 am
Been kinda quiet today. Trying to process some of my dreams last night.
DREAM WARNING TRIGGER WARNING (CHILD ABUSE & RAPE) GRAPHIC!
I keep finding (well, my dreams keep finding) mental puzzle pieces which I did not know were missing. Though I remember much of what happened, there are still many little details that show the holes. Last night, I dreamt about the first time that he abused me.
He, his wife, and three of us scouts (the other two were, like me, chosen ones) were in a car going out to one of the stock tanks to birdwatch. On the drive there, I needed to pee. He kept saying that it was just a few more minutes and then I could go stand against a bush. I couldn’t hold it.
He was furious. She was furious. Both of them, and the other two scouts, kept telling me that only girls wet their pants so I must be a girl. She took my pants and underwear to rinse them in the stock tank and he spread out a blanket and showed me why I didn’t want to be a girl. Anal and oral rape. And my friends watched and did things with each other. I remember lying on my belly, trying not to scream in pain, watching a blue jay scavenge in the dirt and pine needles less than 10 feet away.
Part of that was the dream. Part was the memories released by the dream.
And as I experienced the dream (complete with body memories (?)), I kept wondering why no one showed up to take me by the hand.
Sorry for dumping this here. This was not nearly as bad (in terms of how I reacted to the dream (not the dream itself (if that makes sense?))) as the dreams of a month or two ago but I still felt/feel a little shook up.
That asshole and his wife planned exactly how to shame me into not telling, how to shame me into cooperating, how to shame me into thinking that I was being hurt by a man because I had done something only girls did.
END TRIGGER AREA
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:56 am
cicely
That was good. But then this caught my eye. Does Julian make a habit of taking a piano everywhere he goes?
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 11:58 am
Ogvorbis
*massive hugs*
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:03 pm
Ogvorbis,
careful *hugs*
I’m glad that latest breakthrough made dealing with your dreams a bit less torturous.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:03 pm
Aw jeez Joe. Sorry to hear that. Are they minor cuts or is it pretty serious? either way sorry buddy
Lynna, OM:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:08 pm
Moments of Mormon Madness in Arizona: under the guise of “Constitution Week,” mormons in Gilbert, Arizona host an annual event that is a surreal mixture of Cleon Skousen, anti-Obama, pro-gun, and warped Boy Scout dogma.
Report from an ex-mormon:
Here’s some coverage of the September 2012 event:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/20120911gilbert-constitution-week-celebrates-freedom.html
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:10 pm
Ogvorbis – *many hugs*
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
Ogvorbis:
*lotsahugs* Are the realizations about their planning the assaults new? If so, I’m glad that has come out in your memory, because I hope it adds to the pile of reasons your lizard brain will accept for you not being guilty of anything at all.
Joe:
That’s why I don’t sleep around wild animals ;)
Ogvorbis:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
I actually went back and read through the thread in which that internal wall of guilt came tumbling down and am blown away. As I realized that every choice he gave me, and the others, was not a real choice (‘I can hurt you, or you can hurt her’ is not a real choice), I remembered the personal details of who she was as a person. And I have no clue why not remembering her name was such a huge stumbling block and why remembering her name has put the whole thing into a new perspective in which I am not the villain. It was still scary (though not terrifying). It was still painful (but more in terms of body memory than psychic (?) pain). But I could actually see just how I was tricked/forced/guilted into being a semi-willing participant.
Thanks for the hugs, rq, Beatrice and Hekuni Cat.
Ogvorbis:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Yes. The two of them had to have planned this. Hell, she (his wife) even gave me an extra can of Pepsi (odd, I remember it was Pepsi) before we got in the car and the other two said no thanks. Like I said, little (and not so little (this one was definitely not so little)) details keep showing up but now they are exculpatory rather than accusatory for me.
Pteryxx:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Christina of WWJTD needs help to get through medical expenses + loss of work time after having a Prius land on her foot. h/t Avicenna:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2013/02/help-christina/
Pteryxx:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:32 pm
Oy, reading back now. *offers more anklehugs to Ogvorbis*
Ogvorbis:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
Thanks Portia and Pteryxx.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:47 pm
Ogvorbis
*Hugs*
Tony
Welcome back.
-
Count me too as totally uninterested in sports. I can appreciate the artistry of figure skating, and the athleticism of some martial arts (although I only watch exhibition matches mostly; I’m not fond of watching people hurt each other as a rule); then again, I’ve practiced martial arts in the past, so there it’s more of an appreciation for people who are better than I am at a field I enjoy.
cicely
I wouldn’t be able to come; L has a terror of the ocean and living thereon. Otherwise there’s always Marshall Savages Aquarius plan; some of the longer term stuff is kind of wonky, but s far as I can tell the initial stages are perfectly viable.
Rey Fox:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
Get thee to a DVD player stat!
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
Dalillama
But it would probably be best to have an ocean-side Commune. Or at least a large body of water. Is it just the ocean that freaks him out, or large bodies of water in general?
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 4th, 2013 at 12:56 pm
FossilFishy: I can compose…kinda…on a computer…with a sheet full of scales and chords in front of me…and slowly. If sent a melody line (in score form), I can try to do harmonies for it. Beyond that, you lose me.
I’ve long regretted not taking some musical composition classes way back in my college days. For reasons possibly having to do with calicification of the intellect, I just cannot seem to “get it” on my own.
It makes me sad.
In any case, I have no webcam, so the fact that I know nothing of this “googlehanger” of which you speak, is a moot point.
A mute point, even.
And wtf is a “timtam”? Percussion of some sort?
-
Which reminds me—I may soon have someone to play recorder with, tentacles crossed and Flying Spaghetti Monster willing! A friend/acquaintance who has recently retired mentioned wanting to take it up. And I am willing to throw myself on that grenade, for the Common Good.
-
Indeed. I have never reconciled myself to the Tudor accession to the throne.
:)
Apart from that, it only would count in the event of an unbroken string of legitimate linkages—but maybe the Richard the Third Society would comp him a membership?
-
QFM-FT.
-
Bummer.
*offers chocolate*
-
Ogvorbis: *hugs* and support. Definitely a set-up from the git-go.
-
rq: He should play/drive that thing in parades!
-
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
I’d like the commune to be somewhere on the Mediterranean coast.
Mmmm… Italy.
Ogvorbis:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Thanks for the support (you too, Dalillama).
I suspect (I have no way to be sure (but I think I know how I would have felt)) that if I had had that dream before I realized that my choices were not really choices I would never have seen that as a set up.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
rq
Kind of both, although it can depend. Fwiw, Portland is on 2 quite large rivers?
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
rq,
Here are the studies.
Transgenerational Actions of Environmental Compounds on Reproductive Disease and Identification of Epigenetic Biomarkers of Ancestral Exposures,
and Hydrocarbons (jet fuel JP-8) induce epigenetic transgenerational inheritance of obesity, reproductive disease and sperm epimutations (PDF, and alternate download).
Can you quote “all kinds of conclusions” in them?
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Dalillama
Modern Mesopotamia? :D
cicely
Parades?
Sure.
But from now on, this is how I think of you. (Unless you’re offended.)
Beatrice
I don’t know, I like my winter. Real winter. With snow. Beaches have their good sides, but it’s not the sand, or the too-much sun.
Although, considering global warming, a nice, crispy, crusty, snowy, icy winter (where the snow says grrk grrk when you walk across a field) will probably be a faint memory of the eldest generation by the time the Commune is set up.
Is Italy nice all-year-round?
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:07 pm
Oops, missed one:
Plastics Derived Endocrine Disruptors (BPA, DEHP and DBP) Induce Epigenetic Transgenerational Inheritance of Obesity, Reproductive Disease and Sperm Epimutations
Rey Fox:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
This doesn’t sound right to me.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 4th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
iJoe: This attacking of your face in the night…is it new? Like, since the move?
-
birgerjohansson:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
If you can read German, here is a book that is still fresh 47 years on.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Summa-technologiae-Stanislaw-Lem/dp/3518371789/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360004204&sr=1-2
— — — — — — — — — —
“ranging from 7 to 17-year-olds. ”
For nationalist brainwashing to work, it must be started early.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 4th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
rq: Harrrumph! I have never wanted a pony. Not for even a second. Ponies are the gateway to Horses. And Hell. Which is full of the Infernal Beasts.
And pigs are for baconizing.
-
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
rq,
You can get snow in Italy. Depending on where you are, you can even get lots of snow. There are ski resorts in Italy!
I guess we could take over the whole boot and migrate as we get sick of bloody hot/hot/warm/cold climate.
Ogvorbis:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:43 pm
Watch The Pink Panther (the original one with Peter Sellers). Much of the plot (and great comedy (plus the obligatory 1960s musical number)) occurs in Cortina, Italy. At a huge ski resort.
opposablethumbs:
February 4th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
Fuck, Ogvorbis. What evil, evil people.
I’m only glad that you are better armed now, it seems. It sounds like you’re increasingly able to cope with the memories gradually becoming more complete, now that you know “inside” as well as intellectually that you were in no way to blame.
Extra added hugs.
ednaz:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
Hello All!
Threadrupt but wanted to leave these here.
-
Hi cicely! I saved the video of the piano on skis. Looks like fun. : ) (Thanks for the link.)
-
IJoe, Why do you have attack cats??
-
Tony
So were we. : )
ednaz:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
Ogvorbis, Much ♥ and *hugs*
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:04 pm
Does anyone know where I could find some reliable information about low blood pressure? Internet usually tells you “OMG YOU HAVE BRAIN TUMOR YOU ARE GOING TO DIE” when you google headache, but low blood pressure seems to be completely fine, even when combined with a pulse over 88 or 90 (while resting).
Beatrice:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:40 pm
Never mind. I should do a blood test and then see my doctor anyway. Might as well ask about bp/pulse.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 2:59 pm
Beatrice
Maybe your doctor is psychically telling you to come in for a check-up?
dianne:
February 4th, 2013 at 3:01 pm
Ogvorbis: Hugs and congratulations on working through your trauma!
Beatrice: Low blood pressure is usually only a problem if you’re having symptoms, i.e. dizziness, fainting, etc. The most common cause in an otherwise healthy person is dehydration. But as long as you’re going to the doctor, might as well get it looked at properly.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 4th, 2013 at 3:03 pm
Pics of Chas, Beatrice & Pearl are up at Rattitude.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 4th, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Caine: Apparently I’m not allowed to enjoy the cuteness. No pics, just little x’s.
:(
-
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
Well, Ogvorbis, I’m really glad that the pieces of your rememberings are fitting together and working together in order to bring you some measure of peace.
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
I am a genius. I just mended the unfixable pants. *does a little dance*
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 4th, 2013 at 4:02 pm
SGBM
Thank you!
birgerjohansson:
February 4th, 2013 at 4:03 pm
rq,
Here is a criterion collection film version (from US Amazon) :
Solaris (The Criterion Collection) (1972) http://www.amazon.com/Solaris-Criterion-Collection-Natalya-Bondarchuk/dp/B004NWPY20/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1360014964&sr=1-1&keywords=solaris+criterion
A quote from customer review:
“One bonus of the film being so long with big spaces between dialogue, it gives you the opportunity to switch to the informative commentary track, to hear some interesting insight into the film. While most other movies you MUST watch it with the commentary off to be able to take it all in correctly, you can actually get away with switching back and forth without missing too much of the actual film.”
rq:
February 4th, 2013 at 4:17 pm
But birgerjohansson, is it in colour, or black-and-white? In a sense it doesn’t matter, but the version that captivated me years ago was the black-and-white version (which I have now, with Russian subtitles…), and I’m itching to re-discover it.
I suppose running after an old impression of a movie is useless at best.
Thanks for the link, though. :) Very, very much.
birgerjohansson:
February 4th, 2013 at 4:34 pm
1990s drop in NYC crime not due to CompStat, misdemeanor arrests, study finds http://phys.org/news/2013-02-1990s-nyc-crime-due-compstat.html
inthelemonlight:
February 4th, 2013 at 5:23 pm
dalillama
Heh. I don’t mind complete-dolt-ness as long as it’s curious and open-minded complete-dolt-ness!
Tony et al.
I recently learned that what we in North America know as Clue is called ‘Cluedo’ in Europe. This kind of blew my mind. (Wikipedia says that it’s a portmanteau of ‘clue’ and ludo, Latin for ‘I play’.)
Can’t say about the wallet or the watch, but I’m pretty sure there’s an app for that.
bluentx, cicely, etc.
Also a sports unfan. Well, I’m another of those who will watch skating or gymnastics (or very occasionally diving) just for the physical elegance of the routines, but beyond that and I’m not interested.
Ogvorbis
That’s so awful! I’m sorry. I hope things keep leading you towards some peace-of-mind.
SGBM
Right. Addicted. That didn’t take very long. * laughs * I’d heard of the SET card-game in childhood but never played it. Now I wonder why, since I looooove geometrical/spacial-visualisation-y things, as well as patterns of all sorts. Thanks!
(everyone)
Did someone say ‘piano moving’?
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 4th, 2013 at 5:25 pm
re: Sports
I should clarify. I have nothing against sports. I don’t get that visceral thrill out of seeing people play sports…on tv. I think I could enjoy going to a stadium and watching a game of baseball or to a rink to watch a hockey game. I even have enjoyed *playing* sports. Baseball, raquetball, tennis…these are sports I could play. Heck, I even would like to visit a racetrack and watch a NASCAR event, just to see what it is like.
Football is the only sport I not only have no interest in, but actively dislike and would not want to play. I find it much too violent a sport (Hockey isn’t far behind it, nor is Soccer, depending on where the game is played; I’ve heard in several European countries, Soccer can be vicious).
****
Thanks for the well wishes from everyone. I got to work a short shift yesterday and today I came in to do ordering. I’m about to leave now. Tomorrow, I will come in for a short shift just to receive the liquor and beer orders. Wednesday I will be off. Now that we’re open, I won’t have to be working quite as much. I think I will be settling into a 40-50 hour work week. Perhaps less.
****
cicely @356:
I wondered the same thing. Perhaps Joe’s cats are acting out because of the move to a new location.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 4th, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Ogvorbis:
Reading about your nightmares filled me with rage. I was driving to work reading about it, and got so mad that someone could manipulate and abuse children in such a way. I was livid. I’m not typically violent, but I could tell the way I was feeling, I wanted to hit something. I am so sorry you had to go through such horrible abuse.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 4th, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Cicely:
Hmmm. They are up, I double checked and Hekuni Cat commented, so I’m not sure what the trouble might be.
Improbable Joe:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
I’m not sure what’s going on with me waking up with scratches on my face. It isn’t from my wife, because the two times it has happened have been after she’s gone work and I’ve stayed in bed. It might actually be from the dog trying to wake me up to take her outside. If it is the cats, I think it is from them running over my head chasing each other.
It is hard to compare cats how they are to cats how they were. This house has more space, but the cats were split up with two mostly upstairs and two mostly downstairs, and the Formerly Office Cat was kept isolated from the rest. They are interacting with Formerly Office Cat who now sleeps in a little bed next to the TV, so the dynamic is a little different.
Ogvorbis, slow and steady progress? *thumbs up!*
Hey Tony! I don’t so much like watching sports either. I used to be fairly athletic when I was younger, and I enjoyed playing sports, but just being a spectator doesn’t thrill me much.
Jadehawk:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:07 pm
whyever would I read anything by Stanisław Lem in German? :-p
anyway. I finally calculated how much of the student loans I’ve been hoarding since going back to college I actually spent (this includes medical bills, Rhinebeck, and the Costa Rica field course). It came to about $7000
O.o
Remind me not to spend money ever again.
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 4th, 2013 at 6:21 pm
Okay… does anyone here know of any healthy* ways to cope with self-loathing, anger, and fear? Especially the fear, ‘cuz it’s fueling the other two?
*”Healthy” meaning they don’t involve repression, denial, self-injury, heavy drinking, eating ALL the foodz, or heavy drugging**.
**Yeah, I know, but I don’t consider cannabis a “drug” so much as I consider it an “herbal supplement”; it will never replace the ‘scrips I’m on, but works wonderfully in addition to the pills.
Improbable Joe:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:25 pm
WMDKitty,
If you figure it out, would you let me know? Maybe listen to some more Bruce Dickinson?
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 4th, 2013 at 6:25 pm
Portia, I notice you didn’t post a time. That bad, eh? ;)
Dalillama, this is probably why: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/316390/how-safe-is-greasemonkey
Beatrice and WMDKitty, no problem!
inthelemonlight, I’m glad you like. And, welcome to Pharyngula!
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 7:56 pm
hahaha SGBM, yes, it was that bad. I actually kept going away from it and coming back during work. Truconfession: I actually couldn’t finish it. *hangs head in shame*
On the bright side, I dragged myself to the village council meeting tonight and ended up appointed to a commission. :D Woot!
carlie:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:03 pm
A woman after my own heart! *hugs*
chigau (違う):
February 4th, 2013 at 8:28 pm
Thread’rupt
*hugs* as needed
—
I started a two-month contract with the gummint today.
I hafta work office-hours.
I may not live.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:45 pm
*hugs* back, Carlie, glad to have company in the “that’s why they’re called ‘puzzles’” club. :D
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 8:55 pm
Chigau:
I prescribe lotsa caffeinated beverage of your choice and as much Lounging as possible. We have Sangria and we’ll share.
thunk, hull overheating:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:04 pm
uh hi.
Chigau: *adds calmness things*.
Portia: Great job, you deserve a commissionarial sash or something.
Caine: Rat pictures work for me.
IJoe: Sorry about the scratches.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:27 pm
*bows* It shall say “Grand Executrix of Planning and Zoning and Additional Minutiae” :D
Jadehawk:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:33 pm
which pitter was it again that claimed that only well-educated intellectuals could do social justice?
kinda had to think of that when I finally got around to reading the introduction to my Social Theory reader (written, of course, by a well-educated intellectual Social Theorist), and found the following lines:
guess the well-educated intellectuals the pitter wanted us to defer to would prefer if we listened to those who aren’t privileged. And since we’re all supposed to defer to what the intellectuals say, the pitter now has no excuse to not listen to the oppressed :-p
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:36 pm
Jadehawk, that’s masterful. You are fully entitled to a “Lawyered!”
It’s also really interesting. Thanks for the food for thought.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:38 pm
Wait…did I just reinforce the stupid idea that intellectuals are needed to approve an idea in order for in to be valid with that comment?
I feel like I just went down the rabbit hole.
Jadehawk:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:46 pm
pretty much. in this case though, we can simply treat it as “hoist with their own petard” and move on
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 4th, 2013 at 9:57 pm
Fair enough.
Improbable Joe:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:28 pm
Jadehawk,
It was Jeremy Stangroom and Russell Blackford, but mostly Stangroom. Blackford on Twitter over the weekend saying that “less privileged” people don’t have the education and depth of reading, and Stangroom apparently has a habit of asserting that his education makes him more suited to discuss the problems of marginalized people than the people themselves. But that’s a pretty standard position among upper-class college-educated white men, that they are more qualified than women and non-white people in every category, not just in their field of study.
chigau (違う):
February 4th, 2013 at 10:35 pm
Stangroom …
That still freaks me out.
What the fuck happened to him?
Jadehawk:
February 5th, 2013 at 12:58 am
well, then he must Respect The Autoritah of the ancient, uber-educated upper-class white dude I just quoted, and “STFU and listen” :-p
Jadehawk:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:05 am
whatever it was, it apparently also made him write a book titled “Identity Crisis: Against Multiculturalism”.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:14 am
Has anyone heard from Ing lately?
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:40 am
Good morning!
—
Tony,
Ing commented on One way to deal with a troll the day before yesterday.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 1:53 am
Finally made fried rice I’m happy with.
Oh god I have way too much food in my fridge. O.O
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:19 am
Ing spends more time on Twitter.
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:28 am
MOrning
blah. Have you ever had that thing when your nose is so blocked that when you wake up in the morning the inside of your mouth is so dry it’s cracked?
Well, if I recall Blackford’s Twitter tirade is was mostly along the lines of “opressed people aren’t perfect and might hold horrible views in area A, therefore we never ever need to listen to anything they say about area B.”
It was a nice racist series of tweets along the line of “there was this student from Pakistan who was an anti-semite, should I have shut up and listened?”
Tony
About 10 years ago a friend’s parents decided to open a restaurant. For the first weeks the whole family worked like mad, his parents worked 16 hours a day 7 days a week. I remember when we met there to play trading cards one afternoon so our friend could join us between the lunch business and the afternoon/evening business, his mum just there with her head on the table and slept.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:37 am
Dontpanic @325:
Whinge away. I know exactly what you are talking about and have had the same issue in the past.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:54 am
Good morning.
Apparently baby fevers like to spike unexpectedly around 2.30PM and cause massive sleeplessness in entire families.
And I’ve realized that it’s not so much the being alone with children as the sitting at home. If everyone was well, we’d get out and about a bit, and that would be tiring but fun. As it happens, I’m just tired. I suck at playing with children if there’s no LEGO involved, is all…
Tony
Glad to hear things are settling down, I hope business is excellent!
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:06 am
rq
Those are the times when I turn on the big black babysitter…
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:20 am
Aaaaaaand I have a date later today. Same guy I met Saturday. An inquisitive fellow he is. He is letting me plan the date, which he said will give him insight into me. I find that line of thought a refreshing change of pace. I have catured the interest of someone who wants to dig down and learn about me based on my actions and choices. Talking to him the last few days has revealed a depth of character on his part that I appreciate. Here’s hoping all goes well.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:53 am
Giliell
The rectangular one? Yeah. :) Youngest isn’t yet fully captivated by those electromagnetic emissions yet, though (getting there!). But it’s among my many, many plans for today to turn it on anyway, and hope that Youngest sleeps for more than a half hour at a stretch (being fevery, plus the upstairs neighbours doing something very, very loud and vibratory with their renovations, certainly isn’t working in my favour).
*does a
littleHUGE happy dance for Tony* I’ll be nervous on your behalf, but I hope it goes well! I’ll be butterflying on the inside until you come back with a review. Make it a good one! ;)(Just make sure that, in all this learning about you, he doesn’t forget to tell you about himself.)
John Morales:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:00 am
May the outcome exceed your expectations even if it doesn’t live up to your hopes, Tony!
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:02 am
Oh, white moose!
(Re: crows, from a while ago. There’s a white crow that lives on the west coast of Latvia. Apparently its siblings pick on it. Ordinarily, crows in Latvia are grey-with-black. Only our ravens, and some storks, are black.)
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:03 am
rq
Yep, that one.
I’m still amazed about how many fukken times they can watch a DVD. I grew up in an age before ordinary people had video recorders, so…
But on the other hand I listened to some tapes and records forwards and backwards.
Tony
Woo-hooo
So, what’s your plan for giving him the essence of Tony?
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:11 am
Giliell,
Erm… Giliell, you might want to rephrase sentences like that, so that those of us with minds of a thirteen-year-old don’t start giggling at work.
;)
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:12 am
Good luck with the date, Tony. Have fun!
—
rq,
Hoping your kids get better soon, or at least sleep off most of the illness.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:21 am
Giliell
I think we have one movie that I’m ok with them watching over and over and over and over and over again, but they rarely choose that one. They watched Winnie the Pooh about 9837492837498 times. And Cars 2 (but this is not a children’s movie, by any stretch of the imagination, besides being about animated cars). Middle Child is obsessed with Finding Nemo (I preferred dinosaurs). Husband has more issues with this than me. I just don’t watch or switch it to a background noise, but he’s one of those people who stop when they see something moving on a screen, so he keeps complaining about how he’d love to watch something new and the kids won’t be innovative (or something).
It’s nice introducing them to all kinds of new movies, though, but it’s a bit of a fight, sometimes. Especially when they want to watch an old favourite. Recently we decided to make a list, old-movie, new-movie, old-movie, etc. So far it seems to be working, it saves a lot of arguing about who gets to pick the next one. It takes us about 3 days to watch an entire movie anyway (15 – 20 minutes before nap, 15 – 20 minutes before bed), so currently we’re covered for the next few weeks.
Essence of Tony. *snicker*
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:24 am
Beatrice
You beat me to the essence.
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 5th, 2013 at 4:35 am
*snicker* “essence”
/inner child
richardh:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:47 am
Not ludo, Ludo, which is the British name for a really boring board game. Apparently (some of) you folks call it Parcheesi.
—
But take a look at how much protective clothing the players wear: shinpads and not much more. OTOH, top players are highly trained in histrionic collapse and appeal to the referee at any hint of a foul, which could look to the uninitiated like the outcome of violence. A better metric might be the concussion-and-fracture count, which I am unable to provide.
<thinks>
Or maybe you were thinking of Rugby, proverbially a game for hooligans played by gentlemen, whereas soccer is the opposite?
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:03 am
Soccer generally isn’t violent, soccer fans on the other hand… They can get nasty.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:05 am
Australian rules football, anyone?
Tigger_the_Wing:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:32 am
Hi Hordely Loungers! I’ve been little more than a lurker for the last few weeks, what with this and that in meatspace and a laptop screen that was dying, but I got a nice new MacBook Pro last week in a sale and I’ve (almost) caught up, although I must have missed quite a lot in my scanning (plus, I caught up with the Thunderdome first, because it moves slower. Sorry!)
I’ll try to catch up on momentous news, but meantime hugs to all who want/need them, good luck to those who need it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P.S.
Known as “Australian lack-of-rules football” in our house from a comment I made decades ago the first time I saw a match on TV.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:42 am
Hello, Tigger!!!! *hugs* and good to see you!
And yes, lack-of-rules sounds more appropriate. ;)
+++
Kids are watching Star Wars (again). Darth Vader shall henceforth be known by his new name, Duck Vader, as explained to me by Eldest (“Yes, but I call him Duck Vader!”).
Also, I thoughtfully experimented with some gender issues – C-3PO and R2-D2 are always referred to as ‘he’. But they’re robots, with no clear innate sex or gender at all. Does the dynamic of their relationship change if iether one of them (or both) become ‘she’?
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:58 am
Tigger!!!
*gentle airhugs*
Glad to see you again.
rq
Now, I admit that I wouldn’t let mine watch Star Wars. They’re made for adults, not kids. We have a bunch of “stock movies” like several Winnie Poohs, Shrek, Shaun the Sheep, the Little Mole, Pippi Longstockings (although the N-word makes me cringe), Alice in Wonderland and such.
rq, beatrice, WMDKitty
Go wash your brains. With soap!
Tigger_the_Wing:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:06 am
*Hugs back* =^_^=
Oh, having seen them in the cinema with a friend – having taken our (much) younger sisters as an excuse – I thought the original Star Wars films were children’s films (from about age 8). I have no idea about the later three, though.
I seem to remember my toys (farm/zoo animals, plushies) were evenly divided between male and female (in my head) unless they were obviously one or the other (bulls/cows for example).
Yet the vast majority of toys, robots etc. in films seem to be assigned maleness as if that, rather than femaleness, were the default state of being.
I doubt more than 3% of characters in the films I grew up with were female, including the bystanders. :(
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:11 am
Giliell
And the big brush, too?
The old Star Wars. The good ones. ;) (The new ones – way too much politics and adult relationship issues.)
I remember watching them (the old ones) for the first time when I was 4 or 5. The story-lines were simple enough, and there’s less gratuitous violence than in such new ‘kids’ movies as Cars 2 (which is an adult action movie in disguise). If it was up to Husband, they’d be watching Rambo and Terminator (apparently all movies that he grew up with (although I have my doubts he was 5 when he watched them…)?).
They love How to Tame Your Dragon, though, and Puss in Boots was the biggest hit of all. After that movie, Eldest decided that, when he grows up, he’s going to be Puss in Boots. Thankfully, we managed to watch Ice Age 4 before someone took them to the cinema to see it. That one’s going on the NO list, where Cars 2 should be, too.
mildlymagnificent:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:14 am
Aussie Rules is sacred.
Fast, athletic, graceful at its best, unencumbered by any of those pesky offside rules that slow down other football codes and no longer a blood sport since the introduction of the “blood rule”.
One of my daughters is an apostate who barely knows the names of teams (despite working for a couple of years in the super duper executive boxes at the stadium). The other is a screaming, jump from the couch, partisan enthusiast. One of the things my ‘best mum in the world’ reputation rests on is that a friend at work had season tickets and couldn’t go – and he gave me two tickets for my kids. They were in heaven. One grew out of it, the other didn’t.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:19 am
Tigger
Robots = technology, so they can’t be women, unless you need a robot that needs rescuing. A shame, really, since they’re the perfect blank slate for non-gendered characters. That whole robots-as-male idea struck me recently when watching some other robot movie (with Robin Williams – Centennial Man, I think?). And I wondered, why must the robot be male? Then I thought back to the movie I. Robot, and I’m pretty sure all the robots in that one are male (or present so). Astroboy, too – Wall-E had female robots, but that’s because (a) they needed to fall in robot-love, and (b) they needed robots to do manicures, pedicures and facials.
As for toys, they’ve taken to just having ‘babies’ of no particular gender. But their cars are divided according to the game, so sometimes they’re one, and the next time around they’re the other. And sometimes the strongest tractor is Mother. ;)
birgerjohansson:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:25 am
Portia,
What have you got against Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal?
Oh….my bad.
— — — — — — — —
Just finished reading Dean Koontz “Odd Interlude”.
Koontz is very, very uneven, but the Odd novels are (usually) fun.
Charles Stross will be releasing sequels to wossname, the merchant princes novels set 15 years after the last book.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:38 am
birgerjohansson
I have very mixed feelings about Dean Koontz. As you say, he’s uneven. I forget the last book I read by him, I think it was one about putting mind-control chemicals in the water of a small rural town, but it more or less turned me off him (almost) forever.
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:47 am
re: Star Wars
No, you’re not convincing me (btw, the original rating in Germany was 12 years and upwards). Sure, the original one were less violent than the new ones, but still. Up to 7 years they have difficulties telling the difference between what’s real and what’s TV (or what’s program and what is comercial, for that matter), so there’s a bunch of stuff they’re not getting to see soon (including Harry Potter and Coraline)
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:02 am
Giliell
Not trying to convince you, just saying it works for me. And it doesn’t for you. That’s fine, then. :) (But I do recommend skipping Cars 2 in that case. Cars was just fine, and I was hoping part 2 would be more child-friendly, and more focussed on things like travelling to different countries and stuff. Very disappointing.)
Ogvorbis:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:14 am
No nightmares last night. But I spent about four hours lying in bed playing connect-the-dots with my memories.
TRIGGER WARNING
I remembered that his drink of choice for getting us kids drunk was gin (remember, folks, this was a LDS Stake Holder).
I remember him using some of the older kids (and me (when I was older)) to help ‘convince’ young and scared kids (including me) to join in his fun.
I remember he used girl, woman, and child interchangeably.
I remember him reading from the Book of Mormon and the bible to show us that women/girls/children are not even remotely equal to men.
I remember him making some of us wear diapers during his abuse.
So many little fragments, so much shit, so much scaryness (this is a small sample), has started to coalesce into a remembered whole. I think, for the first time in my life, I can understand why I reacted the way that I did — the fear, the peer pressure, the pleasure, the pain, all the different pieces — and I really do know, not just at an intellectual level, but at a gut/reptilian brain level, who is responsible for what I did.
TRIGGER WARNING ENDS
Don’t know about peace, but knowing what happened, no matter how bad it is, is better than feeling crappy but not knowing why. I feel like a more whole person than I was even four years ago.
inthelemonlight:
Thanks.
Damn. Sorry I set you off. I’ll try to be less graphic, less specific. Sorry ’bout that.
I am cautiously optimistic.
I found that figuring out they why helps the what (your mileage may vary, of course).
Interpol has already made some arrests in match-fixing schemes — as many as 600 games may be doubt over about 3 years. Yikes.
opposablethumbs:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:20 am
Tentacles crossed for what sounds like it could be a great date, Tony. From your description earlier, you seem to be on the same wavelength about some important things. And when he organises the next one, you get to find out more about him too, :-) a win-win.
So where will you go, do you think?
Giliell, thank you for saying that with a straight face. You showed up all of us thirteen-year-olds ;-)
rq, so sorry for the sick kids situation. Hope it eases up soon and you can catch up on sleep!
I remember when my kids were at the watch/sing/listen to it fifteen billion times stage. If you’re lucky enough to find some, you kind of have to get hold of some songs and books and videos you can stand to re-visit … a LOT (we had songs by Maria Elena Walsh (brilliant), the entire Walking With Dinosaurs and Blue Planet series, kids films like Mulan and Pinocchio (all dubbed, in one case with voice-over actors who were even mostly from the right country ;-) (we wanted to bring them up in the language of the deracinated parent as much as possible)). I swear I had them all memorised at one point, though they have receded into the depths a bit now. But hooray forever for Wallis and Gromit, and for Chicken Run! Though come to think of it, we still haven’t had a family viewing of The Great Escape yet … must do that.
george3:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:30 am
Greetings all.
Random.
I seem to remember some time past there was a conversation about names?
Some European states having laws about what you could/not call your child?
This sure is strange:
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/02/court-rules-icelandic-girl.html
She can now use her own name!
Also I am so going to use ‘netfang’ for ‘email address’.
Films.
Recenty watched “The Extraordinary Adventures Of Adele Blanc-Sec”
(Luc Besson. 2010)
To paraphrase The Guardian:
‘Besson, director of Nikita, creates another cool and clever heroine ………..
Louise Bourgoin is all radiant insouciance as Adele, the early 20th-century adventuress grappling with a recently hatched pterodactyl, reanimated Egyptian mummies, the police, and a sick sister, in a lovingly evoked Belle Epoque Paris.’
A lot of action and some very good jokes.
Fun allover IMHO.
G
Ogvorbis:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:30 am
Tony:
Good luck/break a leg/have fun (or however my hope for a successful date for you should be phrased_.
rq:
I remember once, when the kids were both sick, coming home from work — Wife met me at the door, took the car keys, and said, “I’ll be back. Have dinner ready for us in two hours. The kids are yours.” This was during a diarrhea bout from hell with one kid still in diapers. You have my sympathy.
mildlymagnificent:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:34 am
You go Giliell.
Mrmagnificent and I got a lot of grief when our kids were little. They weren’t allowed to watch anything when they were very small unless we were with them. And they were restricted to programs like Playschool and several children’s cartoons, Astroboy was their dream – they thought they would fly too when they grew up. Filns were things like Sound of Music and Drop Dead Fred – a really handy movie because one of them had an imaginary friend for a while, only a cartoon character (although they’d never actually seen the cartoons, only the image).
Most importantly as they grew older, we didn’t watch ordinary evening TV news until the younger one was 10 years old. We encouraged their imagination and we didn’t want them to have the vivid impact of visual nastiness to feed into that. They listened to news on the radio and they were, by and large, much more aware of the grown up world than many of their friends. The killer, though, was that those ghastly, shallow, tedious Australian programs like Neighbours and Home and Away were absolutely forbidden. We were depriving them of a normal childhood.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 8:41 am
Thanks, Ogvorbis. I’m thinking of going that route once Husband is back from the Alps tomorrow. Like, the moment he lands in the airport. Or something.
+++
[Not directed at anyone, long thoughtful/-less ramble and possible sorting of feelings.]
Suddenly I’m feeling very defensive and guilty about showing Star Wars to my kids. I’m wondering why that is, when clearly I know nothing has been directed at me, and clearly I know I have my own standards for what they see and view, and that is perfectly fine. So why do I feel like a crappy parent right now? Because I was very little when I saw the movies and enjoyed them a lot, because they were three of 5 adult-ish movies I was allowed to watch as a very small child (the other two being E.T. and Close Encounters of the Third Kind – that one is freaky when you’re little), and in a world of no TV at all (like mildlymagnificent mentions), it was an island of fun and something different that didn’t curb the imagination (because small doses) but actually developed a love of science fiction as a whole. And no, I don’t feel deprived that I wasn’t allowed to watch anything ‘mainstream’ or anything remotely like the hours and hours of Saturday-morning cartoons that all my friends enjoyed so much. I’m grateful to that part of things, in a big, big way. So why are a few unrelated comments making me feel like shit about this?
I think I’m just not in a very good place right now (what with all of stuff), and feeling sleep-deprived. Added to the fact that it’s been a fight keeping the level of kids’ movies down to the level of Star Wars, and that’s apparently not enough. For… well, I’m not sure, actually. But I’m getting a panicky feeling of needing to justify my actions, and it’s not sitting well, because I really don’t think I should. Anyway. [/ramble]
mildlymagnificent:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:07 am
rq, don’t worry about it.
Move into your house, get yourself settled. Then you can think about how you want to live once you’re organised to serve real meals from a new kitchen. Get kids to sleep and everything else in new rooms. Get on top of new cleaning and laundry routines. It’ll be fun, but it will distract from a lot of the usual stuff.
Everything will be at sixes and sevens for a while. I’m glad we never tried anything like that when ours were that young. I’d probably let some things slide for a while when everything’s all up in the air like that, truth be told.
george3:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:14 am
Random.
Something ate my comment. I think I have ants in my laptop.
Stroppy ants like the ones in the old Tom and Jerry cartoons.
Anywaysup…..
Thought you all might be interested in this:
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/02/court-rules-icelandic-girl.html
She can now use her own name!
And I love ‘netfang’ for ‘email address’.
Old conversation here about names allowed in certain European states…..
All the best to you all, if that makes sence,
G
george3:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:40 am
Third time lucky.
Something is eating my comments.
Ants in my laptop probably. Stroppy little brutes, like the ones in the old Tom and Jerry cartoons.
Annywaysup…
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/02/court-rules-icelandic-girl.html
She can now use her own name!
I seem to recall an old conversation about names in EU states, what you can/can’t use.
And I love ‘netfang’ for ‘email address’.
If this gets eaten too, I’m going to bed early in a grump.
All the best to you all.
G
george3:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:57 am
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/02/court-rules-icelandic-girl.html
Girl can now use own name!
G
birgerjohansson:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:13 am
Miscellaneous:
.
NB!-Could the humble sea urchin hold the key to carbon capture? http://phys.org/news/2013-02-humble-sea-urchin-key-carbon.html
.
Turning toxic by-product into biofuel booster: Engineered enzyme increases output of alkanes http://phys.org/news/2013-02-toxic-by-product-biofuel-booster-enzyme.html
.
Research group suggests Chicxulub crater may have been caused by binary asteroids http://phys.org/news/2013-02-group-chicxulub-crater-binary-asteroids.html
.
Researchers suppress cell division in prostate tumour tissue through enzyme inhibition http://phys.org/news/2013-02-suppress-cell-division-prostate-tumour.html
.
When fairness prevails: Research shows how uncertainty affects behavior http://phys.org/news/2013-01-fairness-prevails-uncertainty-affects-behavior.html
Improbable Joe:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:39 am
Yay for Tony’s date… you should wear your snazzy hat for good luck! :)
rq: I was three years old when the first Star Wars movie came out. Saw it in the theater, although I was too young to remember it. Saw Empire and Jedi as well, I guess that would have put me at 8-9 for Jedi but my 6-7 year old brother was there too. Plus instead of cartoons(or more likely in addition to) I remember spending hours with my mom watching old 1950s giant atomic monster movies and all the Godzilla stuff and weird kung-fu flicks with my dad sleeping in a chair in the corner.
The only thing I remember giving me nightmares or warping my brain when I was a kid was those commercials with the old Native American guy crying about pollution. I had nightmares where he was looking right at ME! and wanted to make ME! pay for all the world’s pollution!
So I don’t think you have to justify yourself. You know your kids, you know what they can handle.
george3:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:42 am
Girl can now use her own name.
http://loweringthebar.net/2013/02/court-rules-icelanic-girl.html
G
Improbable Joe:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:56 am
Wow, that went all pear-shaped…
Speaking of things going wrong, we’re out of cat food! Somebody(wasn’t me!) put the empty bag of cat food away next to the mostly full bag of dog food. So when I went to fill the dispenser? No cat food in the bag. You should have seen the cats following me around this morning like I was their messiah! Luckily for all of us, I never throw anything away, so I still have a few packets of wet cat food that I bought for the drive from Virginia. They don’t go bad for another year, so I can feed the kids until my wife gets home with some cat food.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:58 am
Oggie:
You misunderstand. I wasn’t triggered. I got angry because you were hurt. I care about you and to learn about how you were abused fills me with anger. That tends to be one of the ways my empathy for others works. No apologies on your part are necessary.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:04 am
Today’s Set: 6 Mins, 51 Secs!
Too much consorting with brontosauruses.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:34 am
Like I said yesterday, Improbable Joe, you’re like a one-man support group. Thanks. I hope your cats appreciate you as much as they should!
Freaky about the pollution dream. One of the things that freaked me out the most as a child was catching about 5 seconds of Predator (which my parents were watching while we were supposed to be in bed, at grandma’s) – the one scene where xe picks up the dead scorpion, and it’s all in infrared and stuff. Had dreams about rainbow coloured scorpions and large clawed hands for a few months afterwards.
Technically, I know I shouldn’t need to justify anything, regarding the kids, because they’re my kids and what you said. But today I’m just predisposed to take everything personally, even things not directed at me. Even when I know I shouldn’t. Just one of those days. But thanks for those words, and the reassurance (and no, they don’t have nightmares, and Eldest even mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he is no longer afraid of Harry Potter (he saw the first movie at his great-grandma’s around Christmas), which was kind of nice).
Anyway. Crappy feelings. Because all I want is a few hours straight of sleep. Heh. Dreams, we all have them!
SGBM
3 minutes 5 seconds.
While talking on the phone, juggling 7 torches, completing a Japanese tea ceremony, and chewing gum.
^ (only one of those is true)
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 11:46 am
I suggest solvent extraction. You know…something low-pressure. :P
Improbable Joe:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:46 am
Hey rq, I’m just trying to help.
As for the cats… I have heard that cats are aloof? Not mine. They LOOOOOOOVE me. They follow me around talking to me, and take turns snuggling up to me at night. And all I wanted was a dog…
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:46 am
3:05 > 2:40. I’m going to take this as consolation that today’s puzzle was harder.
+++++
My new provisionally named “Youtube video de-embedder” script is available at http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Greasemonkey , more self-explanatory name suggestions are welcome.
It turns videos into links. You can try it out on #302. By the way, to prevent automagic embedding, add non-whitespace text to the end of your comment. A full stop should do it.
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:50 am
sgbm,
Script works as advertized.
Thanks!
Nutmeg:
February 5th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
*hugs* for Ogvorbis, and tentacles crossed for Tony’s big date! We’ll be waiting for details of how it went! ;)
***
I’m starting to experiment with more vegetarian meals, since my girlfriend is mostly vegetarian. (Not for ethical reasons, she just doesn’t like meat. Yes, ha ha, very funny.) Most of my “show-off” meals involve a fair bit of meat, so I’m hoping to learn to cook some delicious veggie things.
My conclusions so far: Avocados are really, really filling. Holy shit. The texture throws me off a little, though.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 12:22 pm
Improbable Joe, you do a fine job.
SGBM
Either it was more difficult, or I was more distracted and tired. :) Whichever consoles you more.
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 12:28 pm
Nutmeg,
I would consider zucchini and cheese (ricotta and cheddar*, I also put parmiggiano (inclusive) or mozzarella on top ) lasagne a “show-off” meal.
*at least it should be cheddar, I usually use gauda because this cheese forsaken country doesn’t make or buy cheddar
Nutmeg:
February 5th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Ooh, good idea, Beatrice! My folks are away for a couple of weeks, so I have the kitchen to myself and plenty of opportunities to experiment. Maybe I’ll try a veggie lasagna sometime this weekend.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 5th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
Tony: The very best of luck with your date! This guy sounds interested and interesting, at least.
:)
-
The Husband and I stumbled into Australian Rules Football, oh, I guess it must have been 20 years ago, while idly flipping channels to see what was on TV. We were astonished to see one man essentially run up another man’s back, push off into the air, and catch the ball…all of which was apparently legal.
*shaking head*
We wasted many a happy hour attempting to deduce, just from watching, what the rules, if any, actually were were, and decided that any such must be strictly ornamental…so it could claim to be an “organised sport”.
-
Tigger!
*waving*
-
Or cilantro.
:D
-
“What our discovery offers is a real opportunity for industries such as power stations and chemical processing plants to capture all their waste CO2 before it ever reaches the atmosphere and store it as a safe, stable and useful product.”
If it’s also a salable product, one which generates more profit than cost to use, it may have a shot.
-
David Marjanović:
February 5th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
It’s link-dump time again!
Polyandry is more common than we thought (with interesting comments)
Why remakes are one of our greatest achievements as a civilization (quite the exaggeration, but still interesting)
In unspecified place in Papua New Guinea, naturalistic fallacy makes YOU! Or at least it goes the other way around. Fascinating, but horrifying, and some of the comments are right on.
The evolution of kissing – I didn’t know French kissing had been documented in bonobos; that makes it all the more mysterious to me. “Esquimax” in the Darwin quote is a typo for esquimaux; guess how that’s pronounced.
Why and how the Norse gave up Greenland: they did end up eating mostly seal meat, and they seem to have moved off in a rather orderly fashion rather than starved or fled in panic.
Now on to comment 439! *meep meep*
David Marjanović:
February 5th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
cicely! *pounce* *hug* ^_^
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
February 5th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
The UK House of Commons is debating the extension of marriage rights to same-sex couples in England and Wales, here. It’s a free vote – no party discipline – and effectively certain to pass this stage. One of the very few progressive things the current government has done – although about half the Conservative MPs won’t vote for it.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
February 5th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
cicely@453,
The problem with that as a method of sequestering significant quantities of CO2 is that you need something like CaO or MgO (calcium of magnesium oxide) to combine with it. But the only source of these, AFAIK, is rocks where these oxides are already combined with CO2 as carbonates.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
February 5th, 2013 at 1:00 pm
Ah – they are going through the HoC lobbies (i.e., voting) on the Gar Marriage Bill.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
February 5th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Gay Marriage, even. But I’m sure Gars will be pleased to be included ;-)
george3:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
testing
David Marjanović:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:14 pm
I don’t understand. How much did you hoard? Less than that?
Not quite that bad, but I keep a water bottle next to my bed these days. My nose always overreacts to dry ( = winter) air.
And when the nose is blocked, things like exhaling can increase the pressure in the throat to the point of triggering the swallowing reflex. Waking up with a digestive tract full of air isn’t fun.
And sometimes, the air escapes on the other end, driving everything before it…
While that is true, they’re also highly trained in actually committing fouls whenever they think no referee is looking.
Awesome – but where can you take that much calcium or magnesium or whatever from without having an impact on something else?
Fucking awesome.
Ah, so a very low impact angle isn’t the only option. Cool.
From there, giving an impression of the kinetic energies involved:
“The crater left behind has a diameter of approximately 180 km, which means, the researchers say, that twin asteroids could have been as far apart as 80 km and still produced a single crater.”
David Marjanović:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Silicates also work, indeed that’s what the geological CO2 cycle uses. But still, where do you get that much of them from…
george3:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:17 pm
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/02/court-rules-icelandic-girl.html
Girl can now use her own name!
G
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
February 5th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Vote on the main motion for the Marriage (Same Sex couples) Bill: 400 Aye, 175 No – a thumping majority. There will now be at least one procedural vote, but I’d assume these will go the way of those wanting the bill to become law.
george3:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:23 pm
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/02/court-rules-icelandic-girl.html
Girl gets to use her own name!
G.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
February 5th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
David Marjanović@462,
Ah, thanks for that. I’ve seen something about weathering olivine as a possible sequestration route – is this related?
opposablethumbs:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:29 pm
Gay marriage, second reading, passed 400 to 175 iirc.
opposablethumbs:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
oops, sorry, treading on your heels there, Nick!
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:31 pm
That’s good news. Now if only the U.S. Congress could shed enough of the religious fanatics to do something similar.
also, good luck on the dating front, Tony.
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:44 pm
So, went to see mum today.
Her values are getting better and she seems more hopeful again now that something happens.
While I was there dad came to visit, too. I haven’t seen the two of them so affectionate with each other in years.
OTOH mum gets back in shape, which also means getting back in “you can’t possibly manage without me” shape. We’re taking dad and sister to the Chinese restaurant on Saturday to celebrate dad’s birthday.
Mum: “But who takes care of gran?”
Me “M.* does”
Mum: “Nonono, I don’t agree. I’ll ask them to release me on Saturday morning!”
Dad: “Nope, you stay here, you’re ill!”
*M. is mum’s cousin’s “stepmum”. For family relations: Mum’s cousin lives in the same street. I usually talk about her as my aunt, because it’s easier. Now, my aunt’s parents split up when she was still a child and her dad married again sometimes in the 1980′s, so, “stepmum” is a bit of a stretch. And my aunt’s dad died some years ago. But families are weird things, so M. is part of the inner circle.
David
Well, that requires waking up…
When I sleep (especially in my own bed), I sleep. My brain recognizes “sounds made by children and stray bats” but nothing else.
Nick G.
Yay for England and Wales
Lynna, OM:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:44 pm
Excellent interview:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/why-bankers-dont-go-to-jail-taibbi-visits-with-bill-moyers-20130204
The confluence of politics and money, the confluence of drug cartel money with politics, and the realization that it is politically acceptable to only put the people without money in jail — all this and more.
Lynna, OM:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:46 pm
Matt Taibbi on Stephen Colbert:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/taibbi-talks-hsbc-on-colbert-20130117
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
Giliell
Stray bats…?
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
rq
Once in winter some years ago I woke Mr. because I’d heard a noise, like somebody was on the balcony, which is pretty impossible because this is the 13th floor. We turned on the light, couldn’t see anything/body, noises disappeared, we went back to bed. Some days later we noticed a small bat in the living room curtains…
*sigh*
Now I’m waiting for my conversation partner to show up.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 5th, 2013 at 2:08 pm
DDMFM!
*pouncehugback*
Blasphemy!!! In the Garden of Eden, as everyone knows, it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve and Walter and Steve!
-
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:09 pm
Tony: Huzzah for promising romantic prospect! Like the others, I expect a full report: ) (Unless it includes essence, then you can edit for politeness;)
rq: *hugs* Sorry that you are feeling so worn down. I don’t have kids, but I can imagine how all the pressure to be a Perfect Mom™ can make everything seem like it’s an indictment of your parenting. I think you’re a great mom. :) Hugs and chocolate as needed.
——————–
I received the minutes from the last meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission, to which I was appointed yesterday. All through them, what does it say? PZ this, PZ that :D Makes me smile. He got his own Commission!
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:10 pm
Giliell
Glad you and your sister and dad are getting to do something to celebrate his birthday. And that your dad enforced good boundaries for your mom, it sounds like. Hope you have fun : )
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:21 pm
Giliell
Yes, happy for the positive news about your mum, as well as the rest of the family!
re: bats That’s actually really cute… Since having bats fly in our house growing up from time to time, I’ve always thought they were cute. Even when fluttering about as a bundle of ultrasonic nerves, tangled in the curtains.
But I hope your 13th floor is more secure there than here – the way they build balconies (I should say, built) it’s quite easy to climb up to the thirteenth floor hereabouts…
cicely
Sometimes, I think the world would be a better place if it had been Adam and Walter and Steve…
Portia
Thanks for that. May I suggest you hold the congratulations until at least Eldest turns 18 or so? (That’s another 12.5 years, FYI.) ;)
Tony
What Portia said: if there’s too much essence, I’d rather not hear about it. A simple summary of the date and your thoughts on the potential lurrrrve interest will do. ;)
What are your plans? (I will forego the obligatory mention of ‘giving of essence’ this time…)
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:34 pm
Irish prime minister gave sort of an quasi-apology for Magdalene laundries, but it must look like a beautiful compassionate apology compared to the bullshit “sisters” whose orders operated the laundries responded:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21345313
Excerpts:
That’s a fucking dictionary definition of notpology.
No acknowledgment of the abuse, of questionable deaths, of sisters’ own role in those women being put in there or returned after they escaped… just some vague “sorriness” that some women didn’t realize they were being taken care of. So sorry that those stupid women associated their “protection and care” with bad things instead of realizing how much the sisters cared.
*spits*
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:37 pm
Would you make this comment to a straight person?
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:40 pm
SGBM
Yes, I would.
Because if there is an exchange of essence, I’d rather not hear about it. From anyone.
Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
ARGH. Fuck it ALL.
I need to stain a crapton of cells using a library of antibodies. So I dive into the literature and catalogs and talk with people, and get a list of catalog numbers that are good. I then cross-reference them to find a technique they have in common.
Paraffin immunohistochemistry.
Of fucking course.
Also, I have a cut on the inside of my left nostril. And it fucking hurts.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Well that’s nice for you that you’re an all-around prude, but it’s still offensive that you said it. Gay men are way disproportionally reminded of how fucking gross and disgusting our sex is and how nobody wants to hear a hint of it.
rq, you don’t have to read what you don’t want to read. How about you filter your own inputs and shut up next time instead of telling anyone how graphic they should be.
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:52 pm
Well, I probably am too weird about sex, but wouldn’t sharing details of sexual encounters here without even a little TMI warning beforehand be a bit… impolite, I’m not sure about the right word?
David Marjanović:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:52 pm
*bunch of hugs*
*bunch of congratulations*
Yes, but that was without the nickel!
“Olivine/peridot occurs in both mafic and ultramafic igneous rocks and as a primary mineral in certain metamorphic rocks.” That includes basalt.
So much win!
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
“The reason the phrase ‘TMI’ exists in popular culture” would be a good way of putting it.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:55 pm
Hey, if people want to be told ahead of time that they’re going to be reading graphic descriptions of sex, fine. That isn’t silencing.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:57 pm
SGBM
…
I’m sorry, I was coming back to say that, in retrospect, while I would say that to anyone, I can see how it came off sounding way over the line.
I apologize.
And yes, I was going to mention that I can always skip the comments I don’t want to read, because, probably, in this place, is about the only place some people can divulge all kinds of details, which they ordinarily wouldn’t. So… Yes, it was over and out of line.
I will henceforth attempt to remove my foot from my mouth before being too hasty in saying things that are said from a point of privilege.
David Marjanović:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:57 pm
Sounds like… a lot of work?
(I’ve never encountered the method, and the immunohistochemistry article of the Pffft! of All Knowledge only contains the string paraff once, in “deparaffinization”, which is one of the “additional steps” that “the sample may require”.)
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 2:58 pm
You can remove the ‘probably’ from that previous post.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 2:58 pm
Actually, now that I think about it, if someone watching people having sex is involved, and the parties involved have to be consenting, then how is an explicit description of sexual acts not also something that there ought to be consent for?
Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:00 pm
Paraffin immunohisochemistry is also immunohistochemistry.
That is, completely unsuited to cells grown in vitro.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:02 pm
Jesus fucking Christ.
Somebody want to explain this shit to Azkyroth instead of me so I don’t get thrown out of the Lounge?
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
Aside from this, where the issue is disproportionality.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
Azkyroth
The point is not so much the description or an explicit discussion, but the fact that I said something that, from another perspective, could be seen as casting the sexuality of gay men in a very negative way.
That is not cool, even if I didn’t see what was wrong with saying that so flippantly (which I do see now).
Obviously, there was a lot more to those words that I didn’t think of. Will do better.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
Imagine a spherical gay man…
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
strange gods:
I apologize for the offensive connotations of my comment. I should have instead asked for a content warning, if I really wanted it. I probably wouldn’t actually be too shocked by whatever Tony (or anyone) chose to disclose, I was thoughtlessly playing into the joke about essences. I’ll try to be more thoughtful in the future.
Azkyroth:
The difference between unwilling participation (or observation) of a sex act and unexpectedly reading about a sex act is…monumental. I’m not sure if that’s what you’re trying to compare or not. It’s the difference between being punched in the eye and reading “And then she punched him in the eye.” IMO, anyway.
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
It might be my fault for throwing in details of sexual encounters, which implies a lot more explicitness than just giving a couple of comments about how the sex went, since I don’t really expect anyone is going to give us a point by point retelling with all the juicy details, with or without the TMI warning.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:13 pm
And now I feel like that first sentence sounds notpologetic. Anyway, I appreciate the light shined on my straight privilege and something new to think about. If I have more thoughts I might post about this in the Thunderdome in a bit.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 3:14 pm
That was explicitly the subject, and RQ’s comment doesn’t even make sense without it.
Why?
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 5th, 2013 at 3:14 pm
Esteleth: Just now, my mind processed your ‘nym as “Esteleth, OH NO, ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IN MORDOR”.
:D
-
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:24 pm
Beatrice, Portia
I’m pretty sure I’m the one who said something wrong here (took it a bit too far, as it were). :/
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Tony,
In case our discussion about this, and my comments as a part of it, made you in any way uncomfortable I apologize.
Talking about some hypothetical situation and going to it from the teasing aimed at you was a bad move. Even if a discussion about what makes a TMI post would be appropriate, I shouldn’t have engaged in it in relation to you, since it can draw some unfortunate conclusions and feed into existing repression as sgbm explained.
I hope the date will go (went?) great and I’m not going to make any more jokes about essence, but I hope you have a great evening… night, breakfast :)
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
They might. There wouldn’t be anything wrong with it. We have had pretty explicit discussions of just what exactly various commenters like or don’t like.
Improbable Joe:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
I think you’re all terrible people and should be stopped! :)
Just as a sort of meta-ish observation:
People keep saying that “intent isn’t magic” and I get that. On the other hand, intent and action seem to be pretty closely linked on many occasions. So when someone says something problematic(to cover a wide variety of possible comments), and their intent was not harmful, when they have the problem pointed out to them they tend to stop and apologize. As opposed to people with negative intent, or intent that doesn’t include giving a shit about other people, who can be begged to stop and will just double and triple down, all the while claiming to be “just saying” or “making a point” or “merely disagreeing”.
You folks are awesome, not because you’re perfect, but because you’re open to being wrong and care more about other people’s feelings than scoring abstract rhetorical points.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:33 pm
OH thank you for reminding me, Beatrice – my apology here is also for you, Tony, for taking things too far.
And then what Beatrice said above.
And apologies also to anyone else who felt silenced/put upon/insulted/in any way negative about what I said and/or the way I said it. I’m very, very sorry and I have no excuse.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:37 pm
There’s only one person here I’m still angry at, rq, and it isn’t you.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:37 pm
Improbable Joe
Well… As much as I would like to be, I know I can’t be perfect. And besides, I’m also slowly learning that not everyone sees things the way that I do (not like horses???), and that it’s important to acknowledge that.
That being said, when I was younger, I wasn’t always the most careful of speakers. Typing things seems to save me some trouble, but (as apparent) not always – sometimes my brain just goes ahead and gives the order before processing the actual content. It’s something to work on.
(You’re amazing, too, you know.)
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:38 pm
Thank you for letting me know, SGBM (about not being mad anymore).
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
I am possibly the only person in existence who hates making the first comment.
—-
sgbm,
Ok. I guess I’ll have to give my positions on writing/talking about sex some more thought.
(Considering my fanfic reading list, one would expect me to have absolutely no problem reading about sex, but it’s just different when it comes to real people talking about their real experiences. Will think about it. It’s probably a “It’s me, not you” problem)
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
sgbm,
Can you tell me if it’s me still fucking up?
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:43 pm
Seconded…
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
Beatrice, it’s not you. Rather than waffling between being cryptic and starting a real fight here, I’ve left a comment in Thunderdome.
Jadehawk:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
I am confused about your confusion. I was hoarding the loans in case of emergency, but ideally I would have wanted to dump them back untouched (or replenished) onto the loan provider the moment I graduate, thus effectively meaning I wouldn’t be in debt.
And then stuff happened, and now I’m $7000 in actual debt, as in money I don’t have but that I’ll have to repay eventually anyway.
Beatrice:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:46 pm
Ok, thanks.
Xanthë:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
I’m going to try a stab in the dark that neither of you is the target, and that Azkyroth fits the bill.
(If anyone’s interested, the ‘imagine a spherical [object that is not spherical]’ meme is a description of how a physicist will approach a problem with a first-order approximation to grossly simplify a problem to sketch out the likely form of a solution, before considering complicating factors such as, objects that are not spherical are not spherical.)
Xanthë:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Oh, I see I’m late again. Further replies to Thunderdome please.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 3:53 pm
I’m familiar with the expression.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
I’m not terribly interested in reading details of what someone likes or doesn’t like or does or doesn’t do in bed, yada, yada, yada, however, discussions going into such detail have taken place on TET many a time. I simply scroll past such, as I’m not terribly interested.
All that said, however, there is a bias against reading or hearing about gay (men) sexual encounters, which I think we all need to be aware of and not feed into it.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
And actually, my participation was motivated by empathy for seeing someone jumped on in a manner I felt was excessively harsh.
(If intent doesn’t matter, why do people speculate about mine so much?)
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 3:57 pm
Yes.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 4:17 pm
Oh why the fuck do I bother.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:25 pm
Caine
Honestly? The mistake here is mine. I (personally) am comfortable with the idea of gay men (really, anyone) having sex. Perhaps I’m a bit prudish in not wanting to know anything about anyone’s sex lives. BUT. My mistake was in falling into the trap of comfort. Because nobody around me (in real life, or here) ever mentions that gay sex is nasty, I simply forgot that, in the wider world, it isperceived with a huge stigma, as something to be abhorred, etc.
(And I may have just lied, since blogs around here regularly point to institutions and people who are disgusted by the idea of gay sex. :/)
My mistake? Was in not thinking through the things I wanted to say, and how they might look in the light of the wider world, not just my (own) closed set of thoughts and feelings of comfort about my local area (so to speak).
So, being too comfortable in this case was a bad thing – it stopped me from actually thinking about what I said and how it may be perceived to those outside of my world-view. I promise to try to do better in the future.
… And I’m not even sure I’ve blundered through all of that without saying something insulting.
rq:
February 5th, 2013 at 4:29 pm
Azkyroth
If you’re talking about me, thanks. Sincerely. (If you’re not, then ignore the rest.)
But.
I might think a reaction is too harsh; I might think that, but if I think again, I can understand it, because it’s the same for any thread where some rape apologist comes on and everybody jumps on xir, and xe is all about ‘Hey, why are you all so mad?’ and it’s mostly because these things have been explained a gadjillion times before blablabla.
So, please, I appreciate it, but I’ll try to manage to blunder through my own mistakes in the future. :)
If I need help in understanding my transgression, I’ll ask for it.
Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IN MORDOR:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
cicely:
Brilliant!
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
RQ: Ok.
SGBM: I think I misunderstood the discussion that was happening, now that I’ve had a chance to think. Sorry. :/
Tigger_the_Wing:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:20 pm
Good morning, Lounge.
If it is a good morning, which I’m beginning to doubt.
I’m prudish when it comes to sex descriptions, and always scroll past them; so I wasn’t at all bothered about people teasing that there had better not be ‘TMI’ in that regard from Tony until SGBM rightly stepped up and complained that, when it comes to gay sex, that is always what people say even when those same people wouldn’t say it to a straight person.
Now I am ashamed for not realising that.
Thank you for pointing it out, SGBM. One lives and learns, but only if someone else teaches.
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:40 pm
Good morning, Tigger_the_Wing.
QFT. And one of the many reasons for hanging out here.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 5:56 pm
iJoe said:
This a thousand times. It infuriated me to no end when my male cousins whined about how I was so meeeeean being pissed about sexism, and strawmanned my argument by saying I got all bent out of shape at “unintentional slip-ups.” I tried and tried to make them understand that the real problem is what they were doing by digging in and being defensive and ignoring my lived experience. The people I have a problem with regarding sexist remarks are not the people who say “All right, we need all the firemen to come over here…er, I mean firefighers, sorry.” It’s the people, like those cousins who say “But it’s NO BIG DEAL, GET OVER IT, Nobody meant it that way, and besides, freeze peach”
Whew. Thanks for putting it so perfectly Joe. :)
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:28 pm
Alright, Azkyroth.
And now if you’ll excuse me,
Because that’s my fetish! ;)
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 5th, 2013 at 6:30 pm
Thinking about going out for a bit, get some outside time. I need it. But I don’t wanna go outside!
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:30 pm
Comments numbers jumped forward because george3′s link was released from moderation. It’s interesting; I recommend it.
Improbable Joe:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:39 pm
WMDKitty, I totally recommend going outside. I know it is hard, like weightlifting or showering, but it is almost always worth doing.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Went for a walk. Listened to Chicago Public Radio along the way. They announced the beginning of a new serial, titled “Our Guns.” Described as “We will speak with Americans who strongly value gun ownership, and fight out what we can learn from them.”
…facepalm.
Improbable Joe:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:44 pm
Portia,
I’m glad that worked for you. It goes along with something I saw somewhere else on FTB today:
Sometimes, oftentimes, people get defensive because they know they’re wrong and just don’t want to cop to it. It isn’t just that they’re wrong, because folks here are wrong all the time and bend over backwards to correct themselves. It is that they’re caught being wrong, and that irritates the shit out of them.
John Morales:
February 5th, 2013 at 6:49 pm
Showering is hard?
<boggle>
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:06 pm
The date did not happen. I did not get enough sleep last night. I woke up multiple times finding myself on the toilet. I don’t know if I ate something that didn’t agree with me or what, but it happened a sufficient number of times to interrupt my sleep to the point that I was exhausted when my alarm clock went off. I texted A and let him know that I would probably be out of it and not as coherent as I would prefer. He said he fully understood and that even though he was disappointed, he wasn’t angry. He even said he didn’t get much sleep, so getting the chance to rest was beneficial to him as well. In addition, I wound up having to go in to work and learn about our computer system. That took up longer than I thought, so it really worked out for the best that we didn’t go out. We have made tentative plans to reschedule next week.
Last thread:
Portia, rq:
and
No worries. While I have no issue discussing sexual interaction in great detail, I would not do so here. I do not think this is the appropriate place to discuss intimacies of that sort. There have been times where I have discussed sexual things and felt like maybe it was inappropriate for the Lounge. Out of consideration for others, I try not to discuss details.
****
SGBM:
Obviously, we have different perspectives on this. I didn’t take rq and Portia’s comments the same way you did. I read them as saying “I do not want to hear intimate details of *anyone’s* sex life, hetero- or homo- sexual”.
That said, I do completely understand where you’re coming from.
****
Beatrice:
Out of consideration for others, I would include a TMI warning. I would think many people would do the same, no matter their sexuality. Were this a different venue, I would have no problem discussing my sex life. Hell, I often shock people with how open I am discussing things. But it’s in the proper context.
****
Beatrice:
You have absolutely nothing to apologize for.
There is a part of me that does believe SG may have blown this slightly out of proportion, but then I have to remind myself that his experiences and mine differ, and he has legitimate reasons for the response he gave. I realized that ultimately I respect his position in this matter.
I got nothing but laughs out of the “essence” comment originally made by Giliell. So no harm done on my end.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:07 pm
I should rephrase that slightly. I *initially* thought SG blew things out of proportion. Once I took the time to consider his position, I understood that he didn’t. In the beginning I felt that way. I do not now.
The Mellow Monkey:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:13 pm
Sorry to hear the date was delayed, Tony. How are you feeling physically now? Did the digestive upset pass? I hope you catch up on your sleep well tonight.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 7:15 pm
Carry on then.
(Though I’m having a hard time envisioning how you could tell an actual sphere was a gay man or a man at all; it seems like even the organs needed to state his self-identification would introduce radial asymmetry O.o)
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:20 pm
Mellow Monkey:
I’m feeling better now. Once I ate something and got some fluids in me (I have to remember to replenish lost fluids) I felt better. I am still a bit fatigued, but I intend to turn in early tonight. I decided against going home and napping, b/c that would upset my sleep patterns even more. I am currently at a bar using the net and having a glass of wine. I think I will try to turn in around 10/11.
Thanks for the concern :)
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 7:26 pm
Cross-posted from Dispatches:
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:47 pm
It’s not. It never has been. I’ve been around since the beginning of the thread. So has Caine; I’m not just imagining things.
That’s your prerogative, but it’s not a social more here.
I didn’t read them any differently, at least regarding anyone’s conscious introspection.
I am nevertheless upset by the implications of who this affects. There are relatively many places in the world where details of hetero sex can be discussed without being silenced. There are relatively few places in the world where gay sex can likewise be discussed. Pharyngula has been one of those places. I will not accept any side-effect which makes it no longer so, on the premise that that would somehow be “fair” because it likewise reduces the enormous number of safe places for hetero people by one.
This is that context. A TMI warning is fine. But this is not a black-tie dinner.
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 7:53 pm
Gotcha. I’ll try not to be so quick to argue abstract principles. :/
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 5th, 2013 at 7:57 pm
John Morales
It is when one is in the throes of major depression, yes.
Tony
Bummer about the canceled date, hopefully you feel better soon and the rescheduled date goes well.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 5th, 2013 at 8:08 pm
Tony: Sorry you’re unwell, and that you had to cancel your date. It sounds promising, though, that he had no problem with rescheduling.
Be sure to drink plenty of fluids. Non-alcoholic ones, too.
:)
-
Perhaps they are tucked away in a sort of pouch?
-
*snortle*
And he mutates constantly—no doubt to keep on top of the ever-moving state of pharmacological art.
-
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 8:10 pm
SGBM:
On this matter, you and I disagree somewhat*. It is more a personal preference of mine not to discuss intimate details of my sex life here. Not because I am embarrassed, but because I think they are private affairs that others do not want to know about. I have no issue with people discussing what they do in the privacy of their bedroom. Were anyone-you, Caine, SC, Portia, IJoe, Beatrice, carlie, rq, Azkyroth, etc-to discuss their sex lives, it would be no issue to me whatsoever. I read virtually every post, and would likely read such a comment by someone. But I do not expect others to share my openness for discussing or reading about sex, so I shy away from discussing my sex life.
All that said, I do not know if I do so because of prudery, out of respect for boundaries in the Lounge (which may not exist, as you say since the topic of sex has come up before), or because there is a part of me that has accepted the social “rule” that discussion of gay sex is wrong.
*Ultimately though, I think your point about shaming any discussion of gay sex is an important one that we all should pay attention to.
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 5th, 2013 at 8:21 pm
iJoe
Yup, outsides is totally worth the effort. Got rained on a bit, but I also got some socialization, and replenished my herbal stash, so… Win. Efficient, productive Win.
John Morales
Yes, showering can be very difficult when one has less than zero motivation. Throw physical disability on top of that, and it gets to be damn hard. (And then you have those of us who have a visceral reaction to “wet” — I absolutely loathe the feeling of having water on my skin, and try to minimize my exposure.)
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 8:21 pm
I’m not disagreeing with your preference. All I’m saying is it’s your preference; it’s not any kind of unspoken rule around here.
You should know that it is okay to talk about it if you want to. That’s all, that’s how it’s been, and I want it to stay that way.
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 5th, 2013 at 8:22 pm
*hugs SGBM*
No particular reason, just sounded like you could use one.
carlie:
February 5th, 2013 at 8:24 pm
Randomness: name popularity interactive chart.
I believe it’s US popularity. But it’s pretty cool the way the chart works; as you type the name in, it graphs the popularity over time of what you’ve written, and it will also do spelling variants on the name.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 8:26 pm
SGBM:
Understood. Thank you :)
John Morales:
February 5th, 2013 at 8:35 pm
Dalillama:
WMDKitty:
Hm.
I didn’t see any such conditionals in the original contention, but I can hardly deny these claims, can I? :)
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 8:35 pm
It has been rare that I’ve discussed sexual matter here. I do recall a comment I made while back about how I’m a bottom and it is incredibly difficult to find someone who is a top (or versatile) in this town. In addition, another problem I face is that people look at me and think “oh, he’s got muscles, so he’s a top. He’s going to fuck me.” This has been a *major* stumbling block in the last 5 years. To be honest, I think it was the reason that K stopped talking to me last year.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Kuiper-Belt:
February 5th, 2013 at 8:56 pm
Hello everybody, I haven’t been lounging much recently.
But I just want to share now that my FtB ads are now all about “1 weird tip to gain muscle fast!” No more of those “lose fat fast” ones now. (I attribute this to doing a google search for a squat rack.)
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:04 pm
Hugs are accepted and reciprocated exponentially.
+++++
You’d think a little bit of life experience would put these kinds of expectations to rest. But confirmation bias is strong; cases which do not conform to a stereotype are easily forgotten. :(
Oof. That’s rough, Tony. Sorry to hear that.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:07 pm
So, in chatting with A, he just asked me if I believe in Heaven and God…oh boy. I was hoping to put that off til a later date…
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:08 pm
“I believe we only have each other.”
True and warm.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:09 pm
And OH BOY, it is getting deep.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:15 pm
He and are are currently chatting on Facebook.
A recent exchange:
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:17 pm
I like that :)
Tony:
Hope it’s not acrimonious at all. I’m confident you can handle it with your usual aplomb, though.
Glad you’re feeling better, too.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:20 pm
I think I’m going to sleep well tonight. Just got home from fire dept meeting, which included training tonight. We spent 75 minutes getting into and out of our gear, including air pack, in various combinations and challenges. Whew. I feel like I could pass out on my keyboard.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:21 pm
FUCK.
This may be going south.
FAST.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:22 pm
Portia:
Sweet dreams. I think I may be heading off to the Sandman Land soon myself.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:22 pm
At the risk of running a monologue, good answer, Tony! Concise but adequately comprehensive.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:23 pm
Whoa whoa whoa, going south? Suddenly I’m a little more awake.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:29 pm
Portia:
Sorry. I know you need sleep.
This is the only place I have to discuss these issues with. It is one tremendous barrier to me developing a relationship with someone. It is hard enough to meet a guy that I have chemistry with. To meet someone like that, and face the theist/atheist stumbling block is massively frustrating.
The latest volley:
He hasn’t responded.
I rather want to cry right now.
I am so fucking tired of being single.
The Mellow Monkey:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:30 pm
Damn, damn, damn. I am so sorry, Tony. :(
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:32 pm
Tony, don’t be sorry, I was going to be awake a bit longer anyway. And being a listening ear for you is well worth even an unplanned delay. That out of the way, I’m so so sorry that this came up. Or rather, that this obstacle exists. I wish I had more comfort but I know it’s just frustrating and aggravating and disappointing. I’m glad you can at least get it out. *hugs* and *sangria*
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:34 pm
Lounge goers, please forgive me. I know I am taking up space. I just need people to share this with.
John Morales:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:37 pm
Tony, FWIW, I’m married to a church-going Catholic.
(Been with her for well over 30 years)
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 5th, 2013 at 9:37 pm
Tony: *hugs* and emotional support. And more *hugs*.
-
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:39 pm
Unsolicited advice: if he does respond, tell him you’d like to hang out with him a few times before you discuss this any more.
Atheists are scary. We get less scary when the other person develops a personal affection.
I won’t give any more unsolicited advice tonight.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:39 pm
Part of me wants to just stop for the night. I am in a bar right now, and do not feel like breaking down in tears.
A is reasonable, but it does seem like he places importance on people who share some of the same values he possesses. Fucking religion.
I just want someone to share my life with, y’know?
Is that too much to fucking ask for?
Sometimes I think it is.
I’ve been asking for that for fucking 16 years.
Yet here I am, the relationship inept gay man who cannot sustain anything past 3 months.
Are there hugs available? I need a few.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:40 pm
unsolicited advice is still advice. It still has merit. I still value it. Maybe I’ve said too much at this point.
FUCK.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:42 pm
John:
Interesting.
Incredibly interesting.
I wonder how that works.
Especially given the Catholic Church.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:42 pm
*beep beep beep* *Portia backs up dumptruck full of hugs for Tony*
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:43 pm
I don’t think you’ve said too much Tony. I don’t know what would be too much, but I’m certain you’re not there. More hugs.
The Mellow Monkey:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:44 pm
I’ve got hugs for you, Tony. All the hugs. *HUGS*
I’ve had a serious relationship with woman who was religious and we made it work for a while despite my atheism. I’m not sure if I could do it now, though. She dumped me because Jesus didn’t approve of us. Fucking religion indeed.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:46 pm
My last message to him for the night:
Gods.
Do you know how hard it is to not cry when you are in a bar full of strangers?
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:48 pm
Mellow Monkey:
How long were you able to maintain the relationship?
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:48 pm
Oh Tony. C’mere, you, Imma squeeze you for a while.
If you feel you have it in you, I second what SG said about getting together to hang out a few times. These discussions can be much easier once you get to know someone better, and can often be productive, rather than a source of pain.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:49 pm
having cried in a bar full of people I knew when I was dumped in public once, I feel your pain. I’m so sorry, friend. moarhugs.
The Mellow Monkey:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:50 pm
Tony, it lasted about three years. In the end, she broke up with me because she decided she was going to try to be straight or celibate. The last I heard, she was now a liberal Christian and married to a woman. I’m happy that she was able to come to some peace about her orientation, at least.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:52 pm
A possible beacon of light???
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:52 pm
Tony
Fuck, I’m sorry, dude. Lots of *hugs*
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:57 pm
You know what makes all of this worse?
Sexism.
I’m sitting here in a bar, >.< this close to crying and one of the things that springs to mind…?
"Don't cry like a girl."
Really?
Seriously?
For all that I've learned about sexism, patriarchy, misogyny and the sexist culture we live in and I still have that as a knee jerk thought? Shit, the depth of sexism in our culture is deeeeeeeep. I know we are all swimming in it. I know it is good to acknowledge the presence of sexism. But dammit, I want to be better than this!
(once more, apologies for turning this iteration of The Lounge into "All about Tony")
The Mellow Monkey:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:57 pm
Tony
::fingers crossed!::
WMDKitty (Always growing and learning):
February 5th, 2013 at 9:58 pm
*hugs Tony*
Dude. I’m sorry.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:59 pm
Caine, Dalillama, Portia, SGBM, Mellow Monkey, cicely, John Morales:
Thank you all.
More than words can say.
I do not know how I would be able to deal with this kind of shit without the emotional support of the Horde.
Rey Fox:
February 5th, 2013 at 9:59 pm
You get a hug from this longtime single and currently temporarily off-the-market dude.
I can also maybe mention the time that I got kicked out of a bar/club for falling asleep at one of the tables and had to have a guy I barely knew at the time talk me down from a violent sobbing fit outside. (It was not a good night for me to be drinking)
John Morales:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:00 pm
Tony, hard to explain, and everyone is different, and interpersonal chemistry is a mysterious thing.
Point being, it shows that such differences need not always be an insurmountable obstacle to love, nevermind friendship.
Not saying it can or will work out for you two, just saying that it’s a bit early yet to despair that there’s no hope to be had.
(You have my best wishes)
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:01 pm
John Morales
The conditionals were rather implied by WMDkitty’s posting history, both in general and particularly the several posts preceding the one in question.
mythbri:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:02 pm
@Tony
I’m sending you hugs through a series of tubes.
You’re not the only one that feels this way, and I beg you not to view it as your own personal failing (if in fact that’s what you’re doing).
And have I felt like bursting into tears in a public place, in front of lots of people?
Yes, I have. It was when I was messaging someone that I felt very strongly about, and felt that I could have a long-term relationship with. And then he revealed to me, casually, seeming to not understand the impact of what he was saying that [TRIGGER WARNING] used to fuck one of his previous girlfriends when she was asleep, until the time that she woke up and freaked out on him. He said that he hand’t realized it was wrong before, and that he would never do it again. But he didn’t acknowledge what he had done was rape, and I was terrified every single moment he was in my apartment when he came to visit me so we could meet in person.
Yes, I said “yes” to meeting him, even after I knew what he had done. I don’t know why. I have no idea WHY, unless it was to somehow really confirm to myself that I couldn’t be with him. And I did confirm it, as I (kind of) slept with my door locked as he snored on the couch. And I packed him back off to the airport as soon as possible, and broke up with him via email after I got home from dropping him off. I didn’t feel safe to break up with him in person.
I still feel like a complete moron after that entire thing, but I was lonely, and he and I had so much in common. I’m a feminist, goddamnit! I should have known better. But I learned that there are some things I cannot tolerate in a partner, and (go figure) being a rapist is one of them. :P I learned what it is to live in a rape culture, where you can’t believe that someone you’ve grown to care very much about can do something so horrible. And that somehow, you can’t make yourself come to a hard realization. Or at least, it’s extremely difficult.
This turned out to be more about me than it is about you, and I’m sorry. I hope that A realizes that his feeling about non-believers/atheists aren’t really rational, and that he doesn’t use it as an excuse to find out what a good person you are.
And if he does, then that’s on him. It’s not you.
*More hugs*
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:03 pm
John:
Despite it being an anecdote, this does give me hope.
Thanks!
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 5th, 2013 at 10:05 pm
Tony: So very many *hugs.
Would it help to point out to him that religion ≠ values & morals?
fwiw—The Husband and I have been successfully married for…lemmeseenow…something like 31 years, without him being an atheist? We’ve discussed the subject manymanymany times, and apart from believing that some outside Force has to have touched off the Big Bang, our views on Life, the Universe, and Everything are remarkably coincident…and our values & morals match at almost all points.
-
mythbri:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:06 pm
*doesn’t use it as an excuse NOT to find out what a good person you are.
Chris Clarke:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:09 pm
Tony, don’t lose hope. He may never have thought about these things before, and you might be the person who leads him in the direction he needs to go. Or the two of you may decide to agree to disagree. One of my long-term love interests believed in astrology and woo-medicine. Still does. I still love her. My fiancee Annette is atheist and skeptical, true, but she hates Firefly. Sometimes you can work around the fact that the person you love is fatally wrong on something crucial. ; )
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:13 pm
Tony, there are a number of people here who are married to theists, all of them in happy, working marriages. I’d say it’s just too soon to totally write this person off, unless they declare it non-workable due to their beliefs. It’s not the easiest thing, to have an atheist/theist relationship, but it can be done. This is something you’ll have decide for yourself, whether or not you can deal with it. If you feel you can’t, then don’t try. If you feel there is a possibility there, then explore it.
As for crying, try to remember that way back in the day, it was considered to be a sign of manliness, to be able to cry.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:13 pm
Man…
this community is awesome.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:14 pm
Chris:
! Now that’s serious stuff.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:16 pm
Caine:
???
Really?
Crying was a sign of manliness?
I always thought the opposite. I thought expressions of emotion were seen as feminine.
Was this something you learned in reading your most recent book on misogyny?
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:17 pm
Chris:
Thanks for the kind words.
I do hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but Firefly is not one of Joss Whedons’ best. It is still good, mind you…
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:19 pm
Tony:
During the age of chivalry, yes, it was. Knights were openly emotional, in the sense they showed affection (primarily for their fellow men, but it was still good) and felt no shame whatsoever in crying.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
Tony:
Now how would you feel if I said that about Buffy?
.
.
.
.
;D
Nutmeg:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:26 pm
Tony: *big big hugs*
You deserve to be happy, and I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with you that has prevented you from having a long-term relationship. From what I know of you, you are an exceptionally caring, intelligent, and moral person. You’ve just had a lot of bad luck with relationships so far. *MOAR HUGZ*
FWIW, my atheist dad has been married to my Catholic mom for nearly 36 years. The degree to which my mom practices Catholicism has varied over the years, but as far as I know she retains some kind of belief in a higher power and an afterlife. My dad has been an atheist since his early teens. They’ve made it work. I think sharing other ethical values is probably an important factor. I hope the Horde members who have experience with mixed-religion relationships can give you some insight.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:26 pm
Caine:
If you said that about Buffy, well……….I would have to say “YOU SUCK!”
(but still rock)
Improbable Joe:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:27 pm
Here’s a whole warehouse of hugs for Tony… you deserve them brother.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:32 pm
Tony, now see – perhaps instead of chatting about faith, you should enquire as to how A feels about 1) Whedon, 2) Buffy and 3) Firefly. These issues, they be important! :D
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:36 pm
He has bucked the trend. He is continuing to chat with me. Huh.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
IJoe:
Would that be the 13th Warehouse of hugs?
****
Caine:
Have you heard of how eeeeeeeeeeevil you are?
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
Tony
That’s good news.
Nutmeg:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:38 pm
Yep. On Friday, I had to ask L. the all-important question of how she feels about Harry Potter. She hasn’t read the books (oh no!), but she saw and liked the movies (okay). Fortunately she loves Tamora Pierce, so that earns her extra points in the children’s books category.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:39 pm
Nutmeg:
Is Harry Potter your Buffy?
(I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer is *the* best television show ever and one of the best examples of serialized storytelling ever)
Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :):
February 5th, 2013 at 10:41 pm
*adds hugs to the general reservoir*
I assume hugs are fungible?
…
*harvests the fungi from the hugs, gets a pan going*
mythbri:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:41 pm
@Nutmeg #618
Loving Tamora Pierce is essential. L. has good taste.
inthelemonlight:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:41 pm
Giliell
“If television’s a babysitter, the Internet’s a drunk librarian who can’t shut up.” – Dorothy Gambrell
richardh
Noted. Cool. (Though I wonder whether it wasn’t as straightforward as A-causes-B, but more like C-causes-both-A-and-B, since it looks like both Cluedo and Ludo were named after the Latin word.)
george3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_law_in_Sweden
My favourite part is the description of the pair of Swedish parents who named their son Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116 (pronounced ‘Albin’) in protest of the law. The courts were not amused.
mildlymagnificent
My parents never had cable. Most of the time as a kid I understood that TV wasn’t a good alternative to my imagination. That said, my siblings and I still watched way too many junky videos, some of which I’m not happy to have cluttering up my memory. * laughs *
IJoe
This!
SGBM
2:48. Which is, uh, kind of disturbing given that I learned to play yesterday…but then my brain has always been kind of freakishly good at spatial-visualisation. It makes up for it with mild prosopagnosia and some funny little auditory-processing problems. I have a slightly weird brain. It’s awesome.
Tony
Darn! Sorry about the letdown! That’s rough. I agree that maybe you’ll be the reason why he starts being more receptive to non-believers. Hang in there for now and see how it goes.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:45 pm
Tony:
Not in the last day or three. Thank you, Dear.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:47 pm
::Harry Potter is ok. MST3K sucks. Doctor Who is a Satanic Show…::
(I seek to cause drama, in an attempt to distract from my personal drama)
Nutmeg:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:49 pm
Tony: I’m also a big fan of Buffy, but that’s more recent. Children’s literature, particularly fantasy, might be a sticking point for me. I don’t know if I could be with someone who actively hated Harry Potter. ;) Other children’s books/series that I might be illogically attached to: A Wrinkle in Time, The Dark is Rising, Young Wizards, anything by Tamora Pierce, Robin McKinley, or Roald Dahl.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Kuiper-Belt:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:49 pm
Aww, Tony. *hugs* and best wishes.
But wait, if I gain muscle as the ads are telling me, then I will be a top and so… umm, wait, no, this is going the wrong way somehow. I’ll stick with hugs.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Kuiper-Belt:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:51 pm
Tamora Pierce rules! I only read her books recently – I think it must have been on your advice, Nutmeg. A while back, I noted down a bunch of Horde recommendations without also noting who suggested them.
Pteryxx:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:53 pm
well heck Tony, maybe this guy can at least provisionally accept you as Not Like Those Other Atheists for now ;> and with much good fortune, you could work on
converting each otherer, changing the world, later. You’re a damned fine person. *adds to hug truck*Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:56 pm
Well, he is just *trying* to buck the trend…
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:58 pm
Pteryxx, Alethea:
Thank you both :)
****
Something I was thinking about today…what gave PZ the idea to create TET in the first place?
Nutmeg:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:58 pm
YAY for hope with A!
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 10:59 pm
Tony:
Sounds to me that you and A have a fair bit in common, and those things may well outweigh the atheist/theist problem.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:02 pm
Tony:
It was a particularly noisy and prolific creationist who was all over the place in threads, and one thread in particular which was reaching quite the length, but the commentariat protested when PZ made noise about closing the thread, so he opened up the first instance of TET, for the purpose of having a dedicated thread for arguing with said person. It evolved from there.
Chris Clarke:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:08 pm
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, there. I mean there’s healthy disagreement and there’s just being wrong.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:13 pm
Tragically wrong.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:15 pm
Back from a medical call (poor lady had problems similar to yours last night Tony : /) , and i’m so glad to hear there’s a glimmer of hope with A! Woot!
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:18 pm
Look, as a card carrying member of LGBTQI, I am incapable of being wrong on any day ending in a “Y”.
Just accept the truth. MST3K sucks.
Even the Pope said it was awful :)
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:19 pm
I told A that he reignited my hope and confidence in humanity through his words of acceptance.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:23 pm
But, I’m a woman, so stereotypically, I win every argument with a man. Because he’ll get tired of my harping, right? So there!
Kyriarchy for the loss…
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:27 pm
Possibly the last exchange of the night:
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:28 pm
Portia:
I wonder…in a harping contest between you and I…who would win?
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:33 pm
Hoo boy…I have been honing my harping for here goin’ on a few years. I mean, I’m a woman and a feminist, plus I’m uppity, doin’ man jobs and stuff. I’m pretty harpish, as it were. ;)
(thanks for the updates on the convo, your eloquence and depth of sentiment and thought always makes em envious of your wordsmithing abilities).
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:35 pm
Tony – *more hugs*
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:41 pm
Sorry Portia
I am not seeing the uppitiness, or harpishness. You may need to work on those more :)
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:44 pm
Portia:
how often are you on call?
I thought you were getting ready to call it a night…
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:45 pm
I’ve never seen ‘harping’ used in that sense before. I’ve heard ‘carping’ and ‘harping on,’ but every time I’ve ever seen harping used alone it has referred to playing the harp. I found the subsequent exchanges with Tony to be increasingly confusing…
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:46 pm
I wonder if Chris can bunnify my anti MST3K comments…
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:47 pm
Ha! Thanks Tony. I’ll work on being more horrible. :)
I’m on call whenever I’m in the fire district, but we all are. I was all cozied up in bed when the radio went off (I’m back in bed now, thank goodness), but it’s an all-volunteer department so we’re all on call all the time. Sometimes you can’t go or you feel like crap or you sleep through the alarm or you hear over the radio that the call is covered so you don’t go. And to answer inevitable, if no one on our department responds, then the neighboring department is called. There is always an ambulance staffed by the local hospital on call, so no one’s medical emergency goes untended regardless.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:49 pm
Dalillama:
I’ve heard “harping” used in reference to discussing a topic…to death (in some eyes). Basically, it is the idea that someone is discussing something over, and over, and over, and they won’t let it go. I suspect when you’ve heard “harping on”, that means the same as when I’ve heard “harping”.
Portia, who will be okay.:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:49 pm
*to answer the inevitable question
blah.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:51 pm
So perhaps it will be: Portia: She who will be Horrible
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:53 pm
Tony
Yes, that’s it exactly. ‘Harping on’ is the only usage I’m familiar with for “won’t let the topic go,’ while carping is to complain or grump about something.
“Harp and Carp, come along with me, Thomas the rhymer.” :)
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 5th, 2013 at 11:55 pm
Ha! I had just been thinking I wanted a new postnym, because I’m feeling ok presently. (Might be denial, but I can’t be sure. I’m riding the wave, whatever this is).
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:04 am
I took melatonin before the call even went out, like 90 minutes ago, so I’m going to cash out. Busy day tomorrow, including lunch with my new potential lawyer friend. We’re going to brainstorm ideas for starting a local young lawyer’s group. If what you want doesn’t exist, then start it! :D
Ok, for real, good night. It’s been nice talking tonight.
And if anyone knows how to combat a recurring eye twitch, let me know, k? Ugh.
theophontes (坏蛋):
February 6th, 2013 at 12:07 am
To all those people in need of gravitars: Something Shiny.
chigau (違う):
February 6th, 2013 at 12:14 am
X-post
I see that the 9-5 office thing is going to totally fuck-up my participation here.
I’m still reading Lounge and Thunderdome.
*hugs*
and
*kicks*
distribute as needed
Camcaran:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:26 am
Sick at home and trying to catch up with the conversation.
My support to Tony and good night to Portia
Good morning to everyone else =)
Camcaran:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:36 am
Abstruse Goose is back =)
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:56 am
Tony, I’m just catching up. Can I still send you a *hug*?
Also, your words are so eloquent. How can you be so awesome when you’re not even feeling well??
I am sooo jealous!
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:05 am
Caine, Just wanted to let you know I saved part of one of your posts. I titled it ‘Caine Being Fucking Awesome’.
This is the last part of it.
You’re just awesome, that’s all.
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:07 am
I still feel awkward, but I’m gonna keep reading and posting. : )
It’s your fault, Horde, for being kind to me.
chigau (違う):
February 6th, 2013 at 1:13 am
ednaz
Have the last of the rum.
I hafta be awake (and alert and productive) in 6 hours.
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:16 am
Good morning, Everyone.
-
Camcaran, I love the sweet robot cartoon.
-
Chigau, Is there something I can send through the USB to help with the 9-5 Torment?
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:19 am
Hee hee! Thanks, Chigau! Yum!
My offer still stands. : )
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:22 am
Good morning
inthemonlight
I like that
Tony
Big hugses.
Mr. was still a somewhat esotherical deist à la “there must be something out there beyond life”.
Get well, camcaran
+++
And somebody remind me to purge the word “essence” from my vocabulary. Jesus fucking Christ
Amblebury:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:34 am
Hi all, hi Alethea!
-
Hugs for Tony and, (trigger warning: unsolicited advice.) If it’s late and you’re tired, things may seen worse than they really are. What SGBM said. It’s good.
-
Chris
Crickets.
-
WMDkitty I don’t have a dislike of my skin being wet, but I have an intense dislike of being touched when wet. The subject of showering with others for romance and lurve was raised recently. Frankly, I think I’d rather chew lightbulbs.
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:35 am
Camcaran, I’m sorry. I mixed up AbstruseGoose with another cartoon.
I am sending RSA-2048 to my Hoodlum. I think he will get a kick out of it. : )
-
Sending hot tea and warm slippers through the USB.
Beatrice:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:44 am
Tony,
Still needing hugs? You can save these for later if not: *hugs*
We will have a chat about Doctor Who. I’m not sure whether “Satanic show” was a compliment or not. If not… *shakes head sadly*
WMDKitty -- feeling so very small:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:40 am
OMG, rum. Me and rum are non-mixy. Big time non-mixy. What’s rum made of, anyway? And why do some kinds of alcohol leave you mildly “blah” the next day, while others, in equal amounts (“equal amounts” being alcohol percentage), leave you wanting to just die?
Like, I can drink a buttload of sake, and end up mildly hungover. Guinness, similarly, doesn’t leave me with much of an aftereffect. Everything else just goes straight through me and leaves me with a brain-pulverizing headache that makes suicide sound extremely appealing.
Heh, there’s a reason I prefer my intoxicants on the sticky-green-and-stinky side of things. Less with the hangovers and more with the pleasantly-lazy wake-up after a pot-nap.
*stops, re-reads*
Whoa. Babbling. Shutting up now.
Oh, wait, one more tiny thing:
Ogvorbis
You’re right. Figuring out some of the “why” is helping. I’m still upset with myself for “allowing” my abuser to do his thing, because “it’s your fault I’m doing this” was pretty well beat into me by, yeah, my abuser. On a rational level, yes, I know that nothing I did, or could have done, (short of dropping dead) would have affected his actions. I know that he made the choice to abuse me, regardless of his reasoning. But… part of me is still insisting that if I had only loved him enough and did exactly what he wanted and blah-de-fucking-blah… shit, we all know the drill.
POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING: NON-EXPLICIT DISCUSSION OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
I had to re-learn things. Still do. Boundaries, I’m so used to having every. little. thing. scrutinized, questioned, and supervised that I sometimes feel a little bit lost without someone hovering over me. All while totally hating having someone hover over me. Yay, self-contradictory brain! Part of this boundaries thing, he had zero respect whatsoever for my belongings, while his were Not To Be Touched Under Any Circumstances.
Touch. Touch is still a little difficult, especially if it’s a surprise touch. I need touch. I crave touch. Give me pettings, head scritches, even tummy rubs if I’m feeling safe enough! But again, I’m freakin’ terrified that any given touch, as pleasant as it may be at the moment, will turn into hurting. This isn’t exactly a new issue for me, but my abuser cranked this one up to eleven and yanked off the knob.
Heh heh, “Yanked off the knob.”
Sorry. Back to serious stuff.
Angry men. Fuck. Just… angry men. They scare me. I’m scared of my own father now!
Confinement, especially of the full-body restraining kind. He tried to “cure” my claustrophobia by doing the worst thing you can possibly do — pinning me down, completely immobilizing me, and covering my face. Needless to say, it did not work.
Polyamory. Yeah. I know. But this ties back into the “trust” thing. I got burned badly by my abuser. He insisted on an open relationship, had his little “harem”, and had a set of rules drawn up just for me regarding conduct and guests. Again, he had his harem, and I had to run casual acquaintances through him for “approval”. (I’m sure you can all guess what his answer always was…) His reasoning, if one can call it that, was that boring old “Anything That Moves” trope. He was convinced that my orientation meant that I would automatically want multiple partners. (I think that “reasoning” was a mesa-sized projection on his part.) So, I have my issues, yeah, and the poly thing just ain’t my bag.
Did I mention his friends were homeless, and of the three that crashed on MY floor, two were drug dealers. I have no problem with drug dealers or the homeless — I’ve met some really interesting people just by circling up to smoke a bowl — but… come on, cramming a total of five people into a tiny little studio apartment? I was reduced to crawling because there was no room for my wheelchair.
Sex… many times it was more “rape” than “sex”. I submitted to his advances many times when I wanted nothing more than to be a world away from him. Vaginal rape is unpleasant enough. Anal rape… it’s not necessarily “worse than” vaginal rape, it’s just different. And a lot more painful. He would even force me to “service” him orally.
He was convinced that he was absolutely 100% Grade-A Certified “Always Right”, often despite reams and reams of evidence to the contrary. Dispute what he determined was Right, get smacked around. Didn’t stop me from trying, definitely didn’t stop him from reminding me… with his fists.
He absolutely believed every word out of Jack Chick’s vile “comic books”, hated Catholics, denied evolution, the whole nine yards. Dragged me to see the world’s most expensive snuff film (“The Passion of the Christ”). Whinged about having to read subtitles (uh… it’s in aramaic and latin, it needs subtitles!) Forced me to go to a church of his choosing (evangelical “four-square” church) because the churches I chose were “too liberal”.
He had some of the worst double standards in play, too. If he wanted to stay up all night gaming, with the volume cranked up loud enough to bother the neighbors, it was bloody well his “right” to do it, regardless of others’ needs. Gods forbid I ever wake him up or keep him awake or want to play or watch something other than whatever he’s fixating on. Oh, and you can forget about asking him to turn the volume down or use headphones — “But I can’t hear it!” and “But they’re annoying!” being the respective responses. He slept whenever, slept in however late he felt like it, but wouldn’t allow me more than five or six hours a night. On a good night.
He had to be in control of everything. The temperature of my shower, the contents of my fridge and freezer (a lot of which went to waste because someone was too lazy to put things away when he was finished), what I wore, what I ate, every. goddamn. thing had to meet his approval. I wasn’t allowed to “waste money” on things I enjoyed, I was to pay all the bills, and manage all the finances and the food budget (the latter being totally shot because of his picky eating). His money? Oh, his money disappeared the day it came in, usually wasted on some expensive thing we didn’t need or some new toy for him or a whole lot of weed (like, enough to last a month, and he’d go through it in, like, a week and a half). Oh, and a few packs of smokes, enough for a week, but guess who ended up supporting his habits? Yep. Me. More money down the drain, when he never spent one single, solitary cent on household needs. My money was “ours”, his money was “his”.
He has a list of diagnoses. Diagnoses that require medication. Medication that he refuses to take. Untreated bipolar disorder, combined with some kind of psychosis, and a refusal to follow instructions? Very. Bad. Thing.
He was totally convinced that he’s a werewolf, that there really are “hunters” or “slayers”, and that the Vatican was “out to get him” because he “knows stuff”. *eyetwitch* Yeah. Dead serious. Did I mention the refusal to take meds per doctor’s instructions?
Okay, really shutting up this time. I swear. See? Pushing “Post”…
Beatrice:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:58 am
WMDKitty,
I am so sorry you went through all that. *hugs*
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:13 am
Ednaz, I’m glad you liked my post. Thank you.
WMDKitty -- feeling so very small:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:18 am
There are parts of it I can laugh at a bit, now. There are also a lot of things I did, agreed to, and put up with that I’m really not proud of. But you do what you gotta do to stay alive, you know?
I don’t get it, though. What the ever-loving fuck makes a person want or need to control others to that degree? What the fuck was going on in his head that made him treat me like that?
Did he pick me because I’m disabled, and therefore less likely to be able to put up a fight?
Why would the police — invariably male — take his side and tell me to “shut up and stop provoking him”? Why is it that when I tried to report the abuse, I was told, “we can’t help you”? Why is HUD rejecting me after I’ve jumped through every. last. hoop. to get back on the list? Is it at all legal to refuse to rent to someone over a “bad rental history” that came about due to domestic violence? Because if it’s not legal… I know a couple of lawyers.
opposablethumbs:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:22 am
Tony, here are ALL THE HUGS. Seriously, the more I read of you the more I think you’re good people and good company, exceptionally interesting, perceptive, eloquent, thought-provoking, and with empathy and integrity off the scale. You are one of the Pharyngulites I would most love to meet. Also, I am keeping tentacles crossed for you. (oh, and I like Buffy too (especially the humour (and especially Spike))).
.
Nutmeg – you like A Wrinkle in Time! Yay! I thought it had been forgotten … so that makes me happy.
.
Giliell, it’s a great word! Please don’t purge any essences ;-).
John Morales:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:26 am
WMDKitty, ack! That is an appalling story.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:34 am
Opposablethumbs:
Oh, not at all forgotten. I have the whole series and I love those books, even with the outright xian message in them.
rq:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:37 am
*massive hugs* for Tony;
*scritchescritchescritches* for WMDKitty, if wanted (*hugs* are available, too).
carlie re: name popularity
That’s the first time I’ve seen them include various spellings under the same name. I’ve only ever seen (for example) Christal and Krystal as two separate names in these popularity lists, which always seemed a bit odd, considering.
WMDKitty -- feeling so very small:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:55 am
Holy fuck, it feels good to get that out.
The worst of the abuse was the sheer mindfuckery of it all. Making me believe that I was going crazy. Big things, little things, he’d make up whole conversations and events that never happened and insist that yes, they had. He had me convinced that I was losing my mind and imagining things and blowing things out of proportion and rationalizing and justifying his actions, doing half his work for him!
Fuck, he even had the cops taking his side and telling me not to be so hysterical and to stop provoking him!
And he killed my creativity. I want my creativity back. I really, really, really want my creativity back. I miss writing. I miss drawing. I miss being able to make whole worlds in the span of a week. Everything I come up with now has been done to death (twice, even!) and/or is totally based on already-existing (fictional) worlds and locations. Everything is cliched. And I hate it. And I somehow lost all artistic ability, and cannot even draw a simple stick figure any more.
carlie:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:36 am
Alethea, hi! Nothing to say, just wanted to wave at you a bit. *waves*
WMDKitty, sounds like an awful lot to work through. I’m so sorry you went through that.
Tony – I’m another one who is married to a Christian. Not just a wishy-washy one – mine teaches Sunday school and organizes activities and his best friends are homeschoolers because Christianity and the church is fundamentalist. This is because I was also one when we married, but we’ve managed to work things out into a decent cease-fire on that subject. And we respect each other’s opinions and intelligence and knowledge on other things, and it’s working pretty well.
WMDKitty -- feeling so very small:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:04 am
I am feeling incredibly good right now. I mean, as cliched as it is, I feel like a weight has been lifted off my chest and shoulders. I feel oddly light.
This is a weird feeling. Not one I’m used to at all. And I’m positive it’s not the weed. Huh. I don’t even know what to do with myself right now!
Beatrice:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:59 am
WMDKitty,
:)
Yay!
richardh:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:00 am
inthelemonlight
True, but the immediate association for anyone British over a certain age wouldn’t be an obscure Latin word (unless they’d had a public-school education, of course). In the days before TV, every British household had a Compendium of Games containing assorted counters, dice, cards, and a set of double-sided boards for playing draughts/checkers, Snakes&Ladders, somethingIforgetWhichMightHaveBeenChineseCheckers, and Ludo.
(for an idea of the atmosphere, see TVTropes on The Fifties)
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:48 am
WMDKitty:
Careful hugs. I am so sorry you were put through that.
It did/does for me, too.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:29 am
Dear gods women, you have it tough.
I dunno if it was mentioned, and I’m not gonna search for it cause work, but apparently Buzzfeed put up a post of the least flattering pictures of Beyonce at the Super Bowl Halftime show.
If you’re a woman, it doesn’t matter how beautiful you are by anyone’s standards, you’ll still be made fun of if you’re not perfect every single step of every single day.
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:34 am
Katherine Lorraine:
But haven’t we been told, in multiple threads, that objectification of women is a myth?
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:38 am
@Ogvorbis:
By gum you’re right!
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:41 am
So, please hope that my car only has burnt fuse
If not I’m in trouble
WMDKitty
Shit that’s horrible.
I’m glad that writing it helped.
opposablethumbs:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:42 am
Must have gone right past me when I read AWIT, I guess, as I had no memory of any xtian stuff going on at all! Mind you, I’m one of the lucky ones who grew up without any religious nonsense going on at home (though it was there in school) so that may have helped make me oblivious to it at the time.
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:47 am
Giliell:
Crossing fingers and toes (well, those are always crossed) that you have blown your fuse.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:06 am
Opposablethumbs:
It’s pretty hard to miss, with references to god, Jesus, angels and prayer. From the pffffft:
chigau (違う):
February 6th, 2013 at 8:14 am
Good morning.
Gotta run.
Have a nice day.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:18 am
inthelemonlight,
Aaaarrrgh!
Okay, I’m going to warm up before I play today.
Bizarre tangent: a couple days ago I had the word prosopagnosia stuck in my head (I am a fan of Antonio Damasio) but I couldn’t remember what it meant. Today I count myself lucky to be an atheist; a decade ago I might have wasted time wondering what does this coincidence mean?
+++++
Giliell,
Why? What’s wrong with it?
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:18 am
*hands chigau a coffee on her way out the door*
Careful! It’s really hot.
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:22 am
SG:
The ensuing fuss after her casual remark using it.
opposablethumbs:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:28 am
Wow. That’s one childhood memory turned on its head all right. I know it’s been a lot of years, but all I remembered was a feeling that there were clever and resourceful children and a tesseract and an adventure (and Aunt Beast) and they got home again safely … and, um, rescued their dad?
I honestly don’t remember the xtian themes, so I must have either skipped over them as unimportant or irrelevant or – possibly more likely – just mentally backgrounded most of it as “high-fantasy-style stuff to do with aliens”
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:30 am
That statement is as vague as Giliell’s — which is why I’m asking Giliell.
birgerjohansson:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:37 am
Dallilama
“It is when one is in the throes of major depression, yes.”
I have also experienced that depression can result in even trivial chores becoming almost like setting off to climb Mount Everest. Apathy, anxiety, a lot of stuff getting in the way.
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Lie After Lie After Lie: What Colin Powell Knew Ten Years Ago Today and What He Said http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/colin-powell-wmd-iraq-war_b_2624620.html
Comment: “Clearly, Powell’s loyalty to George Bush extended to being willing to deceive the world: the United Nations, Americans, and the coalition troops about to be sent to kill and die in Iraq. He’s never been held accountable for his actions, and it’s extremely unlikely he ever will be”
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Researcher uncovers hidden facts of Israeli-Palestinian water politics http://phys.org/news/2013-02-uncovers-hidden-facts-israeli-palestinian-politics.html
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Ann Coulter To Obama: ‘Screw You’ Over Gun Control Remarks (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/ann-coulter-obama-gun-control_n_2622217.html
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Miami-Dade Police Kendall Squad Caught Ignoring Emergency Calls, Shopping On Camera (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/miami-dade-police-squad-caught-kendall_n_2621924.html
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Brain activity study lends insight into schizophrenia http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-brain-insight-schizophrenia.html an objective marker for schizophrenia
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:12 am
Hi.
Back from the Dominican Republic. The people there, at least the one’s I met, some of the friendliest people I’ve met anywhere.
And fun. They like to party.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:12 am
one’s?
wtf
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:15 am
Miscavige’s niece: “He’s evil.”
Caine, poisoned chalice:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:17 am
Welcome back, Rev! Glad you had a good time.
carlie:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:23 am
Probably. A lot of it is the same kind of “code talking” that GWBush used to do. It sounds like normal everyday things unless you know the code. If I throw in a reference to a city on a hill when I’m talking about being inspirational it just sounds a little poetic unless you recognize the verse it came from, in which case you receive the information that it’s not just an allusion I’ve drawn to a work of literature, but that I know the Bible, I have been steeped enough in the same religion as you to make references that you will recognize, etc. There are Biblical allusions all over the place in L’Engle. If you read the whole trilogy, A Swiftly Tilting Planet is the most blatant, and then there’s a fourth book after that, sometimes included as part of the “set”, that goes all in and has the twins back in time dealing with Noah’s family and the flood. Her adult novels aren’t nearly so anvilicious (and are quite more racy!).
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:23 am
Hello’s Rev’s. Good’s to’s have’s you’s back’s.
Seriously, welcome back.
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:38 am
Good morning Lounge!
Whoever sent this cold my way can have it back now. Thanks in advance.
dianne:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:46 am
Whoever sent this cold my way
Viral illness or low air temperature?
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:47 am
WMDKitty… I’ve got a second warehouse(not 13!) of hugs for you if you want them.
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:51 am
Dianne,
Ha, illness. It’s actually going to get up to 40°F today!
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:55 am
Portia:
You have my sympathy. Colds are, in my useless opinion, the worst of all possible viral inflictions. They feel like they last far longer than they do. They lead to shitty complications. And they are seldom bad enough to put you in bed for three or four days so you end up working, or doing other things that need to be done, rather than collapsing in a whimpering ball of illness.
That said, I hope you have a speedy recovery, no complications, and can hide in bed for a few days. If not, erm, can I offer you chicken soup? Mucinex (or your local equivalent)? Vapo-rub? Wasabi?
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 10:07 am
Thanks for the sympathy, Og. I could really go for some brothy chicken soup. thanks : )
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 10:22 am
::searches through cabinet. Finds and heats up a can of chicken noodle soup. Gives to stork. Stork drops off package on Portia’s doorstep. Please enjoy and get well::
****
Amblebury:
I do believe you were right. I just slept 10 hours and I feel rejuvenated.
****
Opposablethumbs @673:
I just woke up. I can’t cry right now. Yet I am (joyful tears, in contrast to last nights). Thank you. That was one of the nicest things I have ever been told.
****
Ednaz:
Thank you for the incredibly kind words. Between you and opposablethumbs…the kindness is very much appreciated.
****
As for hugs, we may need to restock Joe’s warehouse.
****
IJoe:
How cool would it be if there was an actual Warehouse 13?
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 10:28 am
ednaz@661:
Why do you feel awkward? You are very much a part of The Fellowship of the Lounge. Your contributions and commentary are always welcome.
****
WMDKitty:
I am glad you were able to get that off your chest and I am so sorry for the horrible abuse you went through.
george3:
February 6th, 2013 at 10:35 am
strangegodsbeforeme
@537. Thanks, that explains a lot. Moderated. Did not realise, hence multi-posts. Thought the ants in my laptop were playing up again. Sorry to all who found it annoying.
inthelemonlight
@622. Thanks for the link. Funny.
Allthebest to you all,
G
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 6th, 2013 at 10:38 am
Hey, the car magically repaired itself while I was at home.
So, off to work in a minute or so…
+++
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 10:40 am
Tony, speaking of the Warehouse….
If you want a real laugh, hunt down a little odd “gem” called Friday the 13th: The Series. Seriously…
Get well Portia! May I suggest a little hot sauce in the soup? I always appreciate the sinus-clearing properties of spicy foods when I’m sick.
I’m feeling a little weird this week. I burned dinner last night, for one thing. And I’m feeling really kind of down on myself. I might just be depressed, but I also blame myself for being lazy… even though lack of motivation is a sign of depression. Blegh.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 6th, 2013 at 10:52 am
Yeah, right.
Except there was no “fuss” about the word itself. And your dismissal of the actual discussion with “Jesus fucking Christ”, like it was thoroughly unimportant, amounts to petty sniping by you, Giliell.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 11:02 am
IJoe:
Oh I have watched that show. In fact, when it first aired I watched it regularly. I haven’t seen every episode, but I really liked the concept.
That also reminds me that I also watched the War of the Worlds tv series around the same time.
****
Giliell:
Keep essence. Tis a good word. :)
(Glad your car decided to work)
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 6th, 2013 at 11:06 am
A hopeful sign!
:) :) :)
-
I approve this statement.
:)
-
It was the proto-Horde’s immune-response to a particularly festering creationist’s presence in the proto-Endless Thread….
-
WMDKitty: *scritches* Sounds like this guy is definitely something you wouldn’t want to get stuck to the bottom of your shoe.
Two words: Power. Trip.
Quite possibly. “Fish in a barrel”.
-
Me, too! And if that makes me a Bad Atheist, it’s nice to know I have company!
:)
-
It’s more blatant in some of the sequels—Many Waters struck me as being the most blatant. Still an enjoyable story, though.
-
george3:
February 6th, 2013 at 11:15 am
Do any of you remember
Time Tunnel
?
G.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 6th, 2013 at 11:18 am
iJoe: *hugs*, and remember that Depression Lies.
-
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 11:50 am
And the lies that depression tells are so easy to believe because depression knows just where your blind spots and weak spots lie.
Hugs and virtual support to iJoe. You really are good people.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 11:58 am
Tony, why are Warehouse 13 and Friday the 13th: The Series are THE EXACT SAME SHOW? Because I want to write a show for TV about a bunch of commandos on the run from the
ArmyMarines accused of a crime they didn’t commit, and doing good deeds for cash around America. There will be acigarpipe smoking leader namedHannibalAlexander, asmarmy handsome con manreally attractive woman who tricks men with her looks, amentally-ill pilotstunt driver with PTSD, andMr. TMr. T.I’ll call it… The Alpha Squad!
Cicely, thanks for the reminder. You folks are really helping with my depression. Not that I don’t feel depressed an awful lot, but I’m learning to not beat myself up about it quite so much. The difference between depression and despair is that I know that the depression is my very real brain chemistry fucking with me in a very real way, and the despair is based on my brain misinterpreting the world in half-true or exaggerated ways. The depression comes and goes, but if I give in to the despair it sticks around and fucks with my self-esteem. I don’t expect the depression to ever completely go away, but if I can shake the despair and self-esteem issues I can treat it like I treat my chronic pain issues… accept that it will slow me down sometimes, but also know that I have good days too and I can take advantage of them
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
Does anyone have a virtual bottle of WhiteOut? I suppose _strike_ will do nicely in lieu of WhiteOut.
Oggie:
Your opinions are not useless. They are quite welcome and are valued.
****
IJoe:
I second/third the comments made by others: depression lies. Be well my friend.
Pteryxx:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
*leaves anklehugs for Ogvorbis, iJoe, Caine, and whoever else needs a few* *plus some drawing pencils for WMDKitty*
*goes outside*
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:04 pm
WMDkitty
*hugs* I’m sorry you were treated that way.
Portia
I’m in week two of a cold that just won’t go away, I feel for you.
ijoe
QFT.
I haven’t read any of the books or seen any of the shows you folks are discussing atm, but from the Whedonverse I gotta say I’m a Browncoat.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
Hugs back at you Oggie. That means a lot coming from you.
Beatrice:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:07 pm
Joe,
Depression is a mean liar.
—
Ogvorbis,
Gah, stay here rather than on Thunderdome right now. I hope the conversation didn’t trigger you too much.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:08 pm
IJoe:
You may want to tweak the description of the woman for your hypothetical show. It plays into one of the sexist stereotypes of women using their feminine wiles to get what they want.
(Of course now that I think of it, she could be a feminist aware of that trope who uses it to her advantage, for some greater purpose.)
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
george3:
I have never heard of Time Tunnel.
****
Dalillama:
Browncoat? Firefly?
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
Tony:
Don’t get me wrong, Buffy was a good show, but still.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:16 pm
Thanks Tony, Pteryxx, and Dalillama… and my wife is the Browncoat of the family.
Oddly, I’ve never seen Buffy. I got bored after the first few episodes, and I’m sure it got better but I’m not convinced that I’d care.
Outside is nice. I’ve taken to sitting outside for a few minutes a couple of times a day and just letting the sun hit my face, on top of taking walks with my dog when I have the energy. That and holding Formerly Office Kitty… I’m trying to teach her that it is OK to be loved and be affectionate back. She’s got some serious abandonment issues that I wasn’t really prepared to address, but now that she’s roaming the house I figure I have to deal with it.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
Tony… gah. You apparently missed the joke entirely. I am now sad, because I worked so hard in crafting it.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 6th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Yep. Like any other hell, it’s all very personalized.
-
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:35 pm
So I think I decided the setting of my next series is going to be thus:
300 years after the first book, the tallis (steampunk dragons) have linked the cities of Dragon’s Throat (a port and mining city in the southern continent) and Wivverin (a desert town) by the use of a new steam engine. This starts up the Age of Steam, linking magic and technology together to create fantastic machines.
I’ve got an idea kind of around a high-profile kidnapping on a train… but haven’t banged out the idea yet.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
*hugs* to Ogvorbis too; I just caught up over in TDome.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:47 pm
Ogvorbis:
I am sorry if you were triggered in the Dome. Perhaps you should hang out here with us in the Lounge…?
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:51 pm
IJoe:
D’oh!
Now I get it.
Sheesh. That took too long to get. I am slipping.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
IJoe:
(I just realized, given your military background, adding a ‘G’ to IJoe would be somewhat fitting):
I do not blame you for not getting into the first Season of Buffy. What hooked me was the second season. I remember watching reruns on FX. The first episide I saw in full was, IIRC, the ep after Buffy and Angel had sex and he…changed. The metaphor was quite well done.
Even appreciating the later seasons, I find the first still doesn’t excite me. It is necessary to get the show up and running, but it is the weakest, IMO.
David Marjanović:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
*facepalm* X-)
george3:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop
@727
Time Tunnel: Mid/Late 60′s sf US import to UK tv, so do’nt know when it first aired.
Plot: We have built a tunnel to travel in time, lets test it out before it is ready……….
Can’t get home! Pannic! Various jumping about in time. You get the picture.
Just remembered, I think it may have been on tv as a double bill with “Land of the Giants”.
G
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:27 pm
[whining]
So, this seems to be the time of messed up appointments. Ad electronic messenging systems hate me.
Last week I was at he right place at the wrong time (my fault). Yesterday I was waiting for my Bulgarian counterpart to call me, ’cause somehow I thought that if he says “any day after 6 pm” and I say “how ’bout Tuesday at 9pm” and he adds me on Skype and doesn’t reply he agrees but it turns out he never got that mail. And today I went to work only to find out that my last confirmation message didn’t post and my student didn’t want to bother me ’cause she knows that my mum is ill and thought I had other things to do.
And with all that shit my eating disorder is flaming up again. Hope I get that back under control once the term is finished.
[/whining]
SG
Yeah, I know, I’m mean. That’s why I also had you on killfile. Thanks for reminding me, bye.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
Took you long enough Tony, but I forgive you. *grins*
Starting dinner at 12:30 local time for an Estimated Eating Time of 7:00. Yikes. Making a modified shepherd’s pie, since I don’t have any ramekins(correcting THAT mistake on Friday!) I’ll be scooping the meat into little bowls and then putting the potatoes on top with a PASTRY BAG! and then dusting it with paprika. That and a marinated zucchini salad on the side and I get to feel like a gourmet chef tonight.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:33 pm
Bad news for Buffy fans. Robin Sachs (Ethan Rayne) has died.
I hate the electric company. Their website won’t work for me, their automated phone payment system keeps sending me to a representative, and the reps can’t take my payment.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 6th, 2013 at 1:51 pm
Giliell: *hugs* Electronic messaging systems are capricious, at best. Nothing quite like pulling into the driveway and just then getting the text—sent three days previously—cancelling that game session.
-
From the linked article:
“In 1999, he appeared heavily disguised under layers of heavy make-up as the baddie Sarris in the satirical comedy Galaxy Quest, which co-starred Sigourney Weaver and Alan Rickman.”
-
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 6th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
Giliell,
Right, so you snipe about discussion of heterosexism. For what reason? Any reason other than because I brought it up?
If you didn’t understand the discussion, and didn’t care because you weren’t sufficiently motivated to read my part of it, why snipe about it?
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
Tony, I got some french onion soup for lunch and thought of your kind USBsoup-sending : )
Dalillama: ugh, long ones are the worst. Mine often last 3+ weeks because of immune system deficiencies. Hopefully this one will quit sooner, I’ve had it since Saturday and it doesn’t seem to be the worst I’ve ever had.
====
I have to do a new client intake in 2 minutes and my head is aching worse and worse. blarg. It’s a whiny day for me, I guess.
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:04 pm
Hello!
I had to avoid the Lounge (as well as Facebook, news sites, etc.) until last night because I did not want to be spoiled over the Super Bowl… I’m not a big sports watcher, but I enjoy watching bigger events to a certain extent. The streams tend to be crap, plus I decided that this year I did not want to stay up until 5 am watching it. So download it is, and that took all of Monday. I finished watching it after midnight yesterday and today was my catch up on the Lounge day. So now I know that option needs to be adjusted for next year, somehow. Or maybe I should just stop watching it. No big loss.
Hugs and smiles and fist bumps and “yay!”s to anyone who needed/needs them. Especially Portia, WMDKitty, Ogvorbis, iJoe, and Tony (Please don’t feel bad if I didn’t mention you here; I just read through over 500 comments and I’m having trouble remembering who said what.)
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:08 pm
parrowing:
I don’t actually recall anyone discussing the outcome, so you’re probably safe on that front.
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Dalillama:
There was actually one comment with spoilers, but I could see it coming and stopped scrolling just before. It’s all good though, for I am caught up with both the game and the Lounge. Finally! :D
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Deepak Chopra on Atheists
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Wow, Deepak Chopra is a delusional moron. I wish he’d come to the ‘Dome!
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
He isn’t delusional. Rather, he is not strongly interested in determining what is true, and he is socially rewarded for repeating a set of widely-held beliefs.
Beatrice:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:44 pm
Science is obsolete. Good to know. I was never under the illusion that Deepak Chopra held any regard for science, but I didn’t think he’d diss it quite so obviously. After all, he relies quite heavily on using the name (if no actual content) of quantum physics in order to make his shit more palatable.
rq:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:44 pm
The day he comes to the ‘Dome, I will make huge amounts of popcorn and prepare to stay late (or come early).
Beatrice:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:48 pm
rq,
Me too.
rq:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
Oh, and I saw a book on quantum psychology in the bookstore the other day. I was tempted to buy it just for the laughs.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
I believe what he means by “obsolete science” is “science with insufficient quantums”.
David Marjanović:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:52 pm
Folks! The education minister of Germany has been found guilty of plagiarism in her PhD thesis, so the university of Düsseldorf revoked her degree! What does she do? Not only doesn’t she step back, she wants to sue! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Because the part you commented with “Aside from that” is the very point.
Oh, that’s the part I didn’t get. Socialist paradise here has prevented me from becoming familiar with the very concept. :-)
…I’m sure the Horde Hoard can contribute.
Seconded!
Yes, because it requires interrupting something and beginning something else. Even going to bed is hard that way.
awwww :-}
♥ *extra hugs for both of you, and for mythbri*
*very careful hugs for WMDKitty*
Exactly.
There was political crying in those days, adding emphasis to requests for action as well as to politically motivated apologies.
Sometimes, you know, you’re awesome. :-) :-) :-)
And we kept arguing with said person and his sidekick for about half a year, and then PZ banned him, and the thread just kept going. It’s alive! IT’S ALIIIIIIIVE!!!
I think what’s going on here is Americans, for decades now, mixing two very different things. One is Christl, a nickname for Christina/Christine/Christa where I come from. The other is “crystal” as part of the English tradition of gem names like Ruby (see also Opal), completely absent from German-speaking places, where, furthermore, Kristall is stressed on the last syllable and contains a loud & clear [a].
*hugs for Ogvorbis*
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:53 pm
A and I are chatting. Just found out that he crochets as a way to deal with ADHD. He learned to crochet from YouTube videos. Neat.
strange gods before me ॐ:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
For example
Nietzsche, in The Gay Science, declared that God is dead.
This is obsolete science.
God is in a quantum superposition of being both alive and dead, until he is observed.
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:58 pm
Thanks for the support. I could feel it coming but thought I was strong enough to deal with where things were going. I was wrong (big surprise). Too weak to deal with certain things. Sorry.
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 2:58 pm
Tony @ 710 – That brought tears to my eyes. Thank You! I saved it so I will remember. : )
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
strange gods before me ॐ
-
That made me think of the quantum thread. That was a trip. : )
Beatrice:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
:)
—–
I enjoyed quantum thread a lot.
Hmmm… what would a quantum alot look like?
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:21 pm
ednaz: you are quite welcome
****
Ogvorbis:
I do not know if you are still following the Dome, but Paul has apologized to you.
****
The quantum thread was quite fun. Hmmm quantum queer shoop has a nice ring…
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:22 pm
ogvorbis
Nothing to apologize for, my friend. It’s not your responsibility to take shit from every asshole who comes along. You do what’s best for you first.
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
David
Well, I guess there are going to be a lot more skeletons in closets. People like Schavan who wrote their stuff in the 80′s never thought there would be the possibility to compare their works with thousands of books within a few minutes. Tough luck.
The only reason why I don’t think that von und zu Guttenberg should have know better is because I don’t think that he wrote the crap himself.
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
There is a man who is kind compassionate thoughtful brilliant, and always ready to lend an ear or shoulder.
He fights the good fight for those who cannot.
He encourages others, is devoted to his wife, cares for the dog and the cats, and is always, ALWAYS interesting.
His honesty and vulnerabilty sent out across the Internet helped a stranger half way across the country feel a little less alone.
-
I do not know his name.
I call him IJoe.
-
If he is ever temporarily unsure of his worth or his contribution to the world, I hope he will read the above and be assured once again.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
I dare say that my monetary problems may soon be diminished some. My boss told me she spoke with accounting and they agreed to increase my hourly rate (in large part because they like my work ethic). This is before the first paycheck! Hopefully that means soon I will not have to ask my parents for financial support, get my cable and internet turned back on, and start paying off some unpaid debts.
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:42 pm
That’s great, Tony! Congratulations!
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 3:57 pm
ednaz @766
Your ability to induce spontaneous tears of joy through your thoughtful words has struck again. What you just said to Joe was truly amazing.
I agree with every word.
Tethys:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:01 pm
Orgvorbis
*hug*
Og, feeling pain when being stomped on by hob-nailed boots does not make you weak, it means you have a fully functional central nervous system.
Pauls words hurt a lot of us, not because it isn’t something we haven’t heard before, but because it is especially painful to have people you respect spout rape apologia, and then become all upsetty when you tell them to get the fuck off your foot.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
Jeez ednaz… wow. Thanks for saying, it means a lot. I’m a little choked up, tell the truth.
Maybe I come close to some of that on my best days… and where I’m helpful to anyone here, it is because you’re all worth me rising above myself and trying a little harder to be a decent person. That, and I’m just trying to give back what I get here. You’re by and large pretty awesome people, and you’ve helped me out immensely.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:10 pm
ogvorbis,
There’s no weakness in not being able tolerate the intolerable. Not even a little bit.
Giliell, professional cynic:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:10 pm
ednaz
Don’t make me cry before going to bed
IJoe
What ednaz said
Ogvorbis
(((hugs)))
Being weak ain’t being a failure.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:11 pm
Tony
Yay for a raise.
ednaz #766
Thirded (And also a second for Tony’s 769)
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 6th, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Ogvorbis: *hugs*. And *romping kittens*
-
Tony: Huzzah! for pay raise.
-
David Marjanović:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:19 pm
Loool! Here’s a gallery (with comments in German) of nine German politicians who lost, or in a few cases almost lost, their academic titles for plagiarism in their theses. Only one of them has announced he will write a new one. All of them are conservative (CDU) or libertarian-light (FDP). The most recent case is the federal minister of education.
*hugs* *dedoctored ministers*
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
I guess I really am as useless as I feel.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
You OK Parrowing?
David Marjanović:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:25 pm
Heh. Forgot that it was this thread where I mentioned the still-minister of education.
*more hugs for Ogvorbis* *happiness tea, too* *and calming manatees*
Understatement. :-)
FTW.
Seconded.
Also seconded. There are professional thesis ghostwriters out there who do that shit for a living.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Parrowing:
Seconding Joe’s question.
See this ear? It is listening if you want to share.
Tigger_the_Wing:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:50 pm
*Waits impatiently for borked intawebz Knecshun to mend itssself, preciousssss*
Ednaz, you made me cry, too, because those words were just right.
*Sends hugs to Ednaz*
Hugs to all of you awesome people that have made me feel a small part of something great.
Ogvorbis, what others have said. You aren’t weak by any stretch of the imagination. What Paul said was horrible. Don’t call it weakness, call it tactical withdrawal.
Also, you are one of my heroes.
Tony, looks like one step back but three steps forward? I do hope things continue to improve for you. You deserve that, and more.
Tigger_the_Wing:
February 6th, 2013 at 4:57 pm
Parrowing, what’s wrong?
*Sends hugs*
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:00 pm
iJoe:
No. I am feeling invisible and worthless and depressed and every interaction I have confirms that this is an accurate description of myself. I’m probably going to bed so if I don’t continue posting tonight, don’t worry. Thanks to you and Tony for asking. Have a good night, everyone.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Kuiper-Belt:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:00 pm
*hugs* for Parrowing and WMDKitty.
Parrowing, depression lies.
WMDKitty, I’m glad venting seems to have helped you feel better. I’m particularly dismayed by the police – yeah, yeah, I know they’re mostly assholes, but surely “beating a cripple” should be too low even for them? No? *sigh*
With the art, may I suggest baby steps and ‘fake it till you make it’ as an approach? Just be kind and set yourself super low goals. Count just doing anything at all as an achievement. Get the materials set up and do a little bit of totally uncreative technique work. Maybe a sketch of a cat, or an apple on a plate, what’s more old hat? (I am not an artist, choose your own appropriate low goals.) But just doing it should start getting the neurons firing in the old patterns. Repeat for a while. Low expectations are good.
Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:00 pm
And thanks to you too, Tigger
WMDKitty -- feeling so very small:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:05 pm
*headbonks Parrowing*
You’re not useless.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:05 pm
Parrowing
A little late (damn work), but I am also listening, even when I can’t reply immediately. *hugs* I’ve been there too, and as others said, depression lies. You are a valuable and worthwhile person, no matter what that dark voice is telling you. Among other things, you make the Lounge brighter and better by your presence.
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:21 pm
Yeah, but it is still my choice to enter into a conversation such as that. One would think that I was capable of learning, but I keep proving myself wrong.
I’m not even sure if it was rape apologia. But it did shake me.
and
and
But my weakness was also entering the conversation and being too stupid to recognize warning signs.
=====
Hugs to Parrowing. I know the feeling.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:33 pm
Parrowing, you’re not invisible or worthless to us, and any time you need us to listen we’re here for you.
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 6th, 2013 at 5:48 pm
Oh fuck, there’s so much to address here and I have no time, and no energy.
iJoe, what ednaz said, in spades.
Parrowing, you are not invisible, no way, no how. I enjoy your contributions here and would be sad if you disappeared.
WMDKitty, I’m so sorry about how that asshole treated you. Gaslighting is fucking evil, with a capital fucking. I have had that same response to depression and anxiety, a stifling of creativity. It’s one of the reasons I’m trying to start a musical endeavour with any interested hoarders. I need a push to carry me through the inevitable deadspot that shows up right in the middle of any creative project. The sucking gyre that is my brain telling me that I’m useless again and again leaves me dead in the water no matter how enthusiastic I was at the beginning.
I’m sitting here with tears in my eyes over all the pain that people are dealing with. Feeling guilty that I can’t address it all, let alone fix any of it. Feeling guilty that I need to dump a little more of my worries here, and knowing that I’m going to do it anyway. I try my best to share the joy in life here and sometimes I fail.
Yesterday morning Ms. Fishy asked me “How did you sleep last night?” in a rather pointed way. “Not well.” I replied a little puzzled, because I have never in my adult life answered that question with “Just great thanks!”
She went on to say that she wasn’t surprised.
For the last year or so I’ve woken up to find that she’s moved to the other room sometime in the night. When I asked about it she said that she wakes up and moves so she could read herself back to sleep without waking me. Yesterday she told me that she wakes up because of my snoring. This is the down side to not being a whinger, some things shouldn’t just be endured. We’ve lived together for almost a decade now, this is the first I’ve heard of this. She’s mentioned my snoring before but always in a mild teasing way.
She then told me that every 6 to 12 breaths I stop breathing for a few seconds then twitch or turn over and start snoring again. Fucking sleep apnoea. I’ve made an appointment at the GP. Self diagnosis is stupid.
Here’s the part that’s killing me. I have hope. This could explain a great deal about how I feel, about how hard life gets for me. I have hope; I cannot bear the thought of that hope being dashed.
Years ago I had ulcerative colitis. One of the questions I asked the specialist was if that could be the cause of my constant fatigue. Of course he said yes, and of course the treatment did nothing for my energy levels. That brief frisson of hope and its subsequent disappointment was the worse part of the treatment. Worse than the year of taking non-steroid anti-inflammatory four times a day, worse even than the colonoscopies.
And now I have hope, and I sit here with tears in my eyes because I cannot let myself believe in it.
Sorry folks. I have a funny(ish) story about sheep and a wedding ring that I’ve been meaning to share. Hopefully that’ll make up for the self-pity.
And I have to go back and check who’s expressed interest in musicing. I’ll get to that soon.
Amblebury:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:49 pm
WMDkitty What an awful experience – I’m glad recounting the story helped. And I think you’re correct. In many ways, it’s the mind-fuckery of abusive relationships that’s most damaging long-term. You get so removed from reality you no longer know what it looks and feels like. It’s a shame you’re not up to writing, I like your style. It’s kind of gonzo-esque.
-
Tony ♫ Oh what a beautiful m-o-o-orning! ♪
-
Parrowing I’ve never said hello. Hello! (I’m a bit of a flibbertygibbet, with regard to regular commenting.)
-
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Shit Parrowing… I was thinking the other day that I miss you on Twitter, if you don’t comment here I’ll be really sad.
WMDKitty -- feeling so very small:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
Amblebury
Erm, thank you. I just kinda… write the way I think, and go back over not so much to edit as to check grammar and spelling and punctuation.
I haz no clue; what is this “gonzo” you speak of?
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Thanks for all the well-wishes today. I feel like crap, but at least the day is over and I can veg out. I can handle feeling like crap when I’m able to veg out. S is coming over this evening (we’ve spent today and yesterday together, as sometimes it’s more convenient for me to work out of his office and he said that he still wants me to be able to do that). We might talk over our issues more, or we might just veg out. I’m thinking it’ll be vegging, because he’s in a therapy session right now and I can’t imagine he’ll have much emotional energy left. I’m more than ok with that.
FossilFishy:
Lotsa hugs for your situation. What a loving partner you have. I’m glad you finally know and hope that you can get relief from what troubles you. More hugs.
Parrowing:
You are a wonderful addition to our group, and I really enjoy talking with you every time I get the chance. I hope you wake up feeling refreshed and encouraged. Manymany hugs.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:18 pm
Parrowing:
I see you. I am listening. You are not invisible. You are not worthless. You have value. You are a welcome presence here. If you choose to open up, we will listen. We will rejoice in times of happiness. We will show support in times of sorrow. I promise.
****
FossiFishy:
I hope this knowledge leads to a resolution of your lack of energy. If you cannot find the hope, I have enough to spare.
birgerjohansson:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:20 pm
“Wednesday + Haiku = Waikuhednesday!” http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/06/1184769/-Cheers-and-Jeers-Wednesday
Excerpt:
The stupid party
must stop being so stupid
flap those wings, piggie
— — — — — — — — —
“quantum psychology”
About assholes who want to gass cats,
and how to make them less cruel to animals.
Amblebury:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:21 pm
It’s a style of writing mostly associated with Hunter S. Thompson.
My interpretation is that it’s a wry, intelligently humorous style, that often implies or includes a hearty “fuck you” to societal mores. There’s more to it than that, but that’s an aspect of it I enjoy.
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:31 pm
Ha! Love it.
birgerjohansson:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:36 pm
If these guys were in charge of the church, I would actually attend!
Ghost – Secular Haze http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCLU8q4ZnE4
(I am an unintentional nationalist. I click on songs I like, and find out they are performed by Swedish bands)
inthelemonlight:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:52 pm
richardh
Gotcha. Thanks for filling me in!
Portia
This is just anecdotal, but one time when I had a terrible eye-twitch in my early teens, I lay down and applied pressure to the spot with a finger for twenty minutes straight. Did the trick!
WMDKitty
That’s TOTALLY ICKY. I’m so sorry to hear that you’ve gone through all of that. There is never any good excuse for gaslighting. Ugh.
I’m really glad you’ve (apparently?) gotten out. And knowing you want the creativity back is the first step to reclaiming it!
SGBM
Needed well over four minutes today. Regression-towards-the-mean in action!
http://www.damninteresting.com/the-baader-meinhof-phenomenon/
Ogvorbis
I’m not brave enough to venture into the Thunderdome, but I’m really sorry for whatever happened over there!
FossilFishy
No need to feel guilty. I hope the sleep-related situation is resolved as straightforwardly as possible!
Tony
Yay!
AWESOME. I learned to knit a few years ago while recovering from an illness. I’ve kept it up because it’s creative and geometric and nifty and fun and a way of harnessing the motions of half my fidgety extremities.
ednaz
Aww, that was lovely.
Portia, Dalillama, IJoe, Parrowing, etc.
Hang in there!
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 6:59 pm
Thanks for the idea, inthelemonlight, I might try that!
I meant to comment on Tony’s crochet comment, as well, thanks for reminding me.
I’m teaching myself new knitting skills via youtube video. It’s fun to learn new stuff and challenge myself. I went to the yarn shop today and got the stuff I need to try a new technique. The owner of that shop is really helpful and cool. I actually thought it was great that I had to wait for her to finish nursing her little boy before she could help me with my selections :)
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:01 pm
Thanks to everyone with the well-wishing and kind words.
I just served my wife this awesome marinated zucchini salad I made for the first time ever, and she’s hugely impressed. Seeing her happy is always a pretty good mood-booster for me. Doesn’t fix the underlying problems, but makes them a little easier to deal with.
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:01 pm
Not sure it requires bravery. Stupidity, maybe (for me (I am not calling anyone else stupid (just me!))). Not bravery.
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 6th, 2013 at 7:03 pm
We have no one.
Our ancestors are gone.
Spirit guides and guardian angels are but wisps of ions inside the mind.
The gods are simply not.
We have no one.
No one, but each other.
Hands that type, arms that hold and emotions that cascade, tumbling out in words kind and helpful and consoling.
We have each other.
It is enough.
It is everything.
Thank you all.
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:04 pm
Ogvorbis, You went in to that conversation (please correct me if I’m wrong) to call out a person who was hurting others. That is not weak.
Stepping back from a particularly vile and cruel conversation is not weak. It is taking care of one’s self.
-
When we’re on a plane and the oxygen masks drop, we are told to put our oxygen mask on and then help the person next to us.
We cannot help others if we ignore our own health.
-
Your strength is something I wish I had.
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:06 pm
Joe, I think I missed a hug-worthy comment from you. *hugs* if you’d like them. Glad your wife likes dinner :)
inthelemonlight:
Baader-Meinhof – That’s…damn interesting : ) It’s like when I bought an Alero and now I see them everywhere.
FossilFishy:
Beautifully written, as always. Poignant and true.
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
It scares me. The idea that what happened is my fault is still so close to the surface, so close to being dominant. I feel like I’m standing on the fulcrum of a seesaw and the it is going to go one way or the other and I have no idea which.
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
Tony, Hooray for better pay! Your bosses are lucky to have you. I’m glad they appreciate you.
-
Tigger_the_Wing, Your dream of Ireland was so beautiful.
I am so sorry your heart hurt when you woke up. *many many hugs*
It is good to hear the good news about your health.
-
Parrowing, I hope you feel well enough to talk to us soon. We’re here. *hugs*
-
WMD Kitty, You are really working through a lot. Sending *scritches* if that’s o.k.
-
FossilFishy, Your kindness to others is wonderful.
Hoping for good information from your G.P. (Hope is a beautiful thing.)
-
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:14 pm
Oggie:
The fact that you’re slowly but surely winning that fight is impressive. The fact that you have enough strength to fight for other people on top of that is fucking awe-inspiring. Seriously, no shit? …you’re a goddamned superhero.
Ogvorbis:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:18 pm
I consider myself to be a coward. I try to be as honest as I can, even when it hurts me, because being dishonest will, I know, show up down the road to take a giant chunk out of my ass. I find if scary that anyone would think of me as a good example of anything — unless one is looking for an example of narcissism, fear, and depression.
I think I’m feeling a little down. Sorry.
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:19 pm
Ogvorbis, You have come so far. Please remember all the good that has taken place here.
Your breakthroughs have been incredible.
You can take my hand – for balance – and walk to safety (and all the powerful things you have realized about yourself in the very recent past).
chigau (違う):
February 6th, 2013 at 7:21 pm
What did I miss?
Why are we at 811?
ednaz:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:24 pm
FossilFishy @ 804
This is beautiful. Thank You for sharing it.
carlie:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:27 pm
Oggie – you haven’t been dealing with this very long, not at all. Of course you don’t know quite where all of your boundaries are, and what might or might not set off the badness. You’re learning. And we all have your back, so please never feel like you are obligated to comment on anything or to share with people who might hurt you.
FossilFishy – Want me to take the hope for you? I’ll hope that’s it, and you can tell me of course it’s not that and don’t be silly and we’ll both wait for your GP to schedule you a sleep lab and see what happens.
Portia, She who will be Horrible and Harpish:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:28 pm
S is here now, so I’m going to probably sign off for the evening, but…
Ogvorbis, you are so brave and strong. Your fortitude is inspirational. You are a walking triumph of the tenacity of the human spirit.
Please talk your lizard brain into believing this.
♥
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 6th, 2013 at 7:31 pm
Ogvorbis
There’s something that you need to consider. iJoe suffers from depression. We’ve seen it here, he gets in a bad way and bad things happen. He understands in a tiny part what you’re going through. Not in detail obviously, but in effect. He’s watched you here, read your words, seen your fights, rejoiced at your breakthroughs and now he calls you a superhero.
Understand this, intellectually, because your depression and anxiety won’t allow you to understand it emotionally: iJoe is right.
He is right because his opinion of you is informed by fact and tempered by an intimate understanding of what it means to be depressed.
And here’s the thing: I agree with him for all the reasons I listed above.
If I could sew, I would make you a dashing cape to strike fear into your enemies and awe into your friends and loved ones.
Be as well as you can be Ogvorbis and know that none of us here would lie about now we perceive you.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:35 pm
Ogvorbis:
Take my hand as well.
It is understandable that you feel weak, but I will never forget how you’ve spoken about recognizing your privilege. I have read your tale about realizing the sexism steeped society we live in. I have read, with great respect how you have grown. I have a great amount of respect for you and I think you are an awesome person.
Whenever you need help fighting your demons, just know I will be there to assist. Perhaps not physically, but emotionally…most definitely. Though you may feel alone, here…there be friends. here, there be shoulders to lean on…ears to listen intently…voices to offer advice and assistance as needed.
Never forget that.
inthelemonlight:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:40 pm
Portia
Knitting videos are fantastic! One of them taught me how to do intarsia. And yarn-store owners are almost always so friendly and helpful. I guess that’s natural enough given that most of them are passionate about making things for other people!
Ogvorbis
I’ve only been here for a few days, but seriously, you seem awesome. Keep giving yourself chances for things to get better, because you deserve them! “If you’re going through hell, keep going.” – Churchill
John Morales:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Ogvorbis, it’s funny how someone like you has much lower self-esteem than is appropriate, but someone like I has more than is appropriate.
(Life ain’t fair; if it were, it would be the other way around)
Tigger_the_Wing:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:48 pm
Ogvorbis , I’m agreeing with what Improbable Joe, ednaz, carlie and Portia said. You are a hero. It takes amazing strength of character to do what you have been doing. May the see-saw come down the right way. With the help of everyone here, I think it probably will.
WMD Kitty, I’ve been reading your descriptions of what you went through.
*offers scritches, one cat to another* =^_^=
You, too, are an amazing example of survival in the face of great odds. If there is anything I can do to help find your creativity (did it roll under the sofa, perhaps?) I would willingly do it. The drive to create is seldom totally lost, it’s just that sometimes it needs a re-direction.
I re-discovered a passion for knitting when I had to give up artwork. My hands trembled too much for me to be happy with the results any more. I also had to abandon calligraphy. No-one wants wobbly penmanship either! For a couple of years, I was knitting-mad; but, gradually, I discovered that uncurling my fingers from around the needles was becoming harder and harder. So I gave up, but with the encouragement of Number 4 Son, I took up crochet instead, because I can do that with my fingers straight most of the time.
Even if your drawing-muse has taken to hiding, you might find something else!
FossilFishy, that poem was beautiful! And I am greatly appreciating your desire to share your music. I haven’t played for months, so please take credit for the fact that you have inspired me to sit back at the organ and not worry about what other people think of my waning skills!
John Morales:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
[mutter]
My previous was particularly poorly expressed, and with bad grammar to boot.
Tethys:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
Og,
I was triggered to the point of helpless sobbing rage by the original NYC thread too, and I merely read most of it.
there is No Shame in not being able to control your emotions. If that were possible, we wouldn’t have PTSD.
Your feelings and reactions are absolutely correct and valid. Try to see them as a symptom that you need to give yourself some extra nurturing, rather than evidence that you have messed up.
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 7:55 pm
Portia: YAY KNITTING!!! Every new thing pushes out the horizons of your life, right? Good fucking times!
cm's changeable moniker:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:03 pm
Haiku? Aaaargh! Resist?
(What can I say? I’m cheating.)
David Bader’s work.
Pteryxx:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:03 pm
Ogvorbis, you do deserve all the praise here. I’ve just been reading it through and I concur – it’s all accurate. You’ve come such a long way and in spite of everything you’re radiant with compassion.
For what it’s worth, I did make the decision you’re beating yourself up over. I started replying to Paul, I saw where it was going and I bailed, to try and save myself the triggering. Because of that I managed to stay functional and get some things done this afternoon (after being miserable for only a couple of hours). But I don’t feel wise or proud of this… I wish I’d stayed in to help support you, especially, because I know what it cost you to stand up for me and the rest of us survivors.
None of us *want* to get into these fights over and over and over again because it’s “fun”. It’s ugly, necessary work. But it’s only because of folks like you (and me, other days) that the rest of us can take a break, set the burden down, and stay silent.
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 6th, 2013 at 8:05 pm
You know, I think I’d enjoy knitting. My favorite job is building bike wheels. You take a bunch of metal sticks and a hoop and at the end of it all you have a wheel. Knitting is like that, transforming materials into a thing with a new function. It’s as close as us non-chemists get to alchemy.
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 6th, 2013 at 8:12 pm
cm
Futile resistance
Is the hobgoblin of minds
Glued fast with hard prose.
Tigger_the_Wing:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:31 pm
For the hookers amongst us:
Crocheted reef.
I love crocheting corals. They are such fun, and I can use up scraps of any colour I like. Babies love them as balls they can handle easily and chew.
carlie:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:32 pm
The best knitting videos I’ve ever found are at http://www.knittinghelp.com/ Fantastic, and easy to understand, and everything is done both ways.
John Morales:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:42 pm
I’ve never grokked poesy (nevermind specific stylistic modes) but from Wikipedia (footnotes elided):
deborahbell:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:42 pm
Hi guys, some of you might remember me, I visited here briefly last fall when I was on the computer a lot looking for a job. Well, I got a job – one that works us very long hours (12 hours a day, 5 – 6 days a week) so I stopped having time or energy to spend reading the Lounge, though I kept up with the blog entries on FTB, mostly.
But now I’m having an awful problem and though maybe I could run it by some of you. Not only am I working these long hours, but the people have nasty mouths and run them all the time. Basically, I sit at an assigned work bench with other people assigned to their benches all around – we don’t get to pick and we don’t move day to day. For the past few months I’ve sat with the same people, people who seem to think they are sitting at the bar having a conversation with their mates and can talk about any old thing they please, and what they please is just really offensive.
trigger warning for content description
They talk about how awful gay people are and how they should be beaten by their parents or how parents should tell their same sex kids what they are attracted to to train them to be heterosexual. They talk about how women lie about being raped to get away with cheating. They talk about whether and in what way they would murder their wives if they caught them cheating – unless it was with a women, in which case, they might watch and then join in. They talk about “funny” scenes in movies involving male-male prison rape. They comment on the appearance women walking by, usually calling them “fish” and discussing whether they are worth “catching” and whether they should be “thrown back”. They discuss in animated detail sex and cheating, oral sex and masturbation, the price of Beyonce’s underwear, the proper weight of a woman, how bullying turns teenagers gay, how children aren’t beaten enough today, what the prostitutes “down on Lamar” are wearing, what the local mentally handicapped homeless woman did at the driver’s license office that was entertaining, etc.
Of course between all that they talk about how the government makes up swear words and convinces us they are forbidden in the bible to confuse us into…I don’t know, something. And how Lucifer was the angel of music and that’s why Michael Jackson’s music was so popular and why rap makes kids join gangs. And how voodoo works – but only if you believe in it, but oh wait, maybe that was Wicca?
I’ve tried arguing, I’ve tried telling them the conversations are inappropriate and offensive. I’m talked over, laughed at, insulted, and lectured when I argue. I’m laughed at and then ignored when I tell them the conversation is offensive or inappropriate. I filed a formal HR complaint for sexual harassment on January 9, and HR told me that the investigation was concluded on January 17, and that they not only substantiated my allegations, but that they found such a widespread culture of similar activities thoughout the hundreds of employees and several departments that they felt a site wide intervention was in order. Since then, nothing has happened. On February 4 I went back to HR after one of the worst offenders told me that he didn’t care whether I thought his comments about taking another coworker’s wife’s picture to the bathroom to masturbate to it were disgusting and he was going to talk about whatever he wanted (which he continued to do). The company I work for is a staffing agency that has an onsite HR department, and some of the employees involved work for the actual company that owns the site, and my HR told me on February 4 that they are waiting for the other company’s HR to get back with them about coordinating with them on site wide sexual harassment training, so that after training every one they could then be able to follow up with disciplinary action on anyone who continued behaving in these ways.
The employees I’m having trouble with are not my supervisors, but my coworkers. The employer’s duty is less with coworkers than with supervisors, but not nonexistent; I can’t find a definition of the “prompt and remedial action” they are supposed to take to fulfill their duty anywhere, but surely a month after becoming aware, and three weeks after admitting to me that they agreed it existed and having done nothing whatsoever to remediate my situation is not prompt in any sense of the word? The HR rep did say she had considered moving me but was afraid that would call attention to me which she wished to avoid in order to avoid risking the confidentiality of my complaint, and given how widespread she and my experience says the situation is, I don’t know how much good moving would do. Still, it has come to the point that I am on edge all the time, my productivity suffers, I find I am not sleeping as well, forgetful even away from work, unhappy all the time, etc. Today a fly landed on my desk and I screeched loud enough to scare people rows away.
The next option is to file an EEOC complaint. Paradoxically, I would have to request time off work to do it, because you have to go in person! You can mail it, but it takes longer and they just have to call you (during business hours, when I can’t answer the phone) to talk about it. I am far beyond having any rational thought process on this situation. What I want advice on is whether you guys think I should file an EEOC complaint, or give HR more time to resolve the situation, or go back and try to get HR to do something, or something else?
John Morales:
February 6th, 2013 at 8:58 pm
deborahbell, I’m in no position to advise you, but do you know and understand the terms of employment and associated relevant policies?
Both parties need to abide by those, and if your employer is breaching them (or not enforcing them on other employees) you will have a very strong case.
(Also, unless they’re confidential, it is possible that someone here (alas, not I) might have both the expertise and desire to peruse them and give you informed advice)
Improbable Joe:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:01 pm
deborahbell,
First off, glad to see you back!
Second, sorry you’re going through that.
Third… IANAL, but my guess is that someone forgot to dot their ‘I’s and cross their ‘T’s when it came to policy and employee handbooks and such. It is easier and less of a legal hassle to make everyone sit through a standard class, make them sign an agreement to abide by the standards laid out in the class, and then go after offenders. In the situation you’re in, they would have to go after the entire department, and if they miss ONE person, everyone else gets to counter that the standards weren’t applied equally and it is back to square -1, because they are now open to suits for wrongful termination or because people aren’t promoted as quickly as they think they should be.
So my guess is that HR is putting together a package, with a form that has to be filled out and signed at the end, and before they have 100% participation in the signature program, they won’t do a goddamned thing.
mythbri:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:13 pm
@deborahbell
That really sucks. I can empathize, even though my workplace isn’t nearly as bad.
But if the HR investigation said that it was a wide-spread problem, it sounds like a workplace culture thing, and that is not easy to change.
If HR is truly planning to try to correct this, I imagine they’re being extremely methodical in their implementation of training and awareness. There is nothing worse for a bad workplace culture than having new things badly implemented. It will make things worse. I assume that if they’re working on it, they definitely don’t want the effort to be wasted, and they definitely want the changes they make to be effective.
In the mean time, are there any workplace rules against listening to a personal music device while you’re working? It might help to distract you until action is taken by HR.
cicely (Mostly Harmless):
February 6th, 2013 at 9:26 pm
Parrowing????
*hugs&encouragement*
You are not invisible. You are not worthless. Depression Lies.
*more hugs*
-
And *hugs* for FossilFishy. If it helps…The Husband says that, to borrow a phrase, I snore like a chainsaw fucking an air compressor.
Like he’s got any room to talk! *in tones of exaggerated indignation*
-
Ogvorbis: All those things just a bit up-Thread: +1. You rock.
-
Hi, deborahbell! I remember you!
:)
*reading*
o.O
I…don’t know what to say. Except that you have my sympathies.
-
deborahbell:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:31 pm
Hi, John, the workplace policies are a bit difficult to puzzle out. The only HR department policies I have access to are the ones for the company whose site I work at, but for whom I am only a contract or temp employee. The employer I am actually employed by, the staffing agency, gave me some paperwork and a 15 minute off the cuff statement that constituted the entire new employee orientation when I started, but I don’t have access to any kind of handbook or website for them at work (there may be something on their public website, I suppose). The host company has a very short and cursory sexual harassment policy that I took the time to find today – it was hidden – that says little more than what the law says on the EEOC website. The lecture we got when we started spent a lot more time talking about not getting involved when a person is hurt and bodily fluids are involved to avoid possible contamination (instead letting onsite medical staff handle the situation) than anything else of any kind.
Joe, thanks, I missed you guys, I just don’t have time to keep up with you! :) I’m hoping to find a better job, which this was only intended to be a stepping stone to and which will let me have more time.
The hard thing is I think they really need to put a good policy in place and deal with the situation. I think it’s the best thing they could do. On the other hand – I need some resolution now. Let’s do triage first then make long term plans.
mythbri, I didn’t describe that part of it. Since we are working on computers, and in a foreign trade zone, we work behind metal detectors and security. We can’t have any electronic or metal devices of any kind, including phones and personal mp3 players. The computers don’t have outside internet access and would be too slow anyway. There are no windows and no radio of any kind. There are no dividers between workbenches so the only limiter is voice loudness and distance. It is a loud, dusty, industrial environment. As we are working with the internals of computers, printed circuit boards, wires, etc., we can’t even have paper of any kind, so no books, magazines, or printed material. We don’t have email, even internal. Some people wear earplugs for the noise, so I could do that, and cut down on how much I pay attention to what the guys are saying, but that’s about it. I sit on the end of an aisle, and the guy across from me talks very loudly to the guy next to me, and the one kitty corner across from me sometimes joins in. I can’t talk to anyone else without raising my voice and turning away from my work.
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:33 pm
Cicely:
I am still waiting to see that side of you that is not ‘mostly harmless’. Is that the side of you reserbed for horses?
cicely (Nothing to see here; move along now!):
February 6th, 2013 at 9:39 pm
Tony:
Oooh, crap! I should have changed that before now!
Do you think…They…have noticed?
*quickly hiding Death Ray plans under bin of poisoned apples*
-
Tony the Dancing Telegram Queer Shoop:
February 6th, 2013 at 9:50 pm
Nope. I have kept our equine lords occupied with queer shoop shuffling. All the sheep do it. It is the new dance craze…
FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with a perchant for pachyderm punditry):
February 6th, 2013 at 9:59 pm
Damn. That made me laugh loud enough to startle the horses.
I’m not too fussed by the snoring. Ms. Fishy and I can work that out should the need arise. Mind you, Chez Fishy (Ghost Train Villa (TM) ) won’t have spare room to vacate to should the damn thing every be finished. Guess it’s good thing we bought a couch that’s big enough for me to sleep on.
What worries me is that it’ll turn out that I don’t have sleep apnea and I’ll have to just carry on fighting my way through a haze of fatigue day and day out. And how sick is that? That I’m hoping for illness? Bah.
cicely (Nothing to see here; move along now!):
February 6th, 2013 at 10:05 pm
*flourishing cape*
Then my work here is done!
:)
-
PZ Myers:
February 6th, 2013 at 10:22 pm
NEW THREAD.