Oh gob, evo psych again? »« I’m back!

[Lounge #385]

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly.

I remind you all: this is not the place for acrimony or argument. You can do that in practically every other thread on this site, but not here.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

Comments

  1. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Good morning, everybody! Cute snowmen. Looks like a snow-free December ’round these parts. High of 69°F today. In December. In Illinois. What climate change?

  2. rq says

    Random mildly amusing story re: Christmas(Winterfest) trees:

    The national forestry administration here allows the cutting of one Christmas(Winterfest) tree (this) per family every year, but only in state-owned forests, along roadsides or under powerlines. Cutting trees in municipal or privately owned forests can get you a fine of (the equivalent of) $2000 (CAD or USD), and up to four years in prison.

    My second Christmas-season here, with my sister visiting, we decided to go tree-hunting in the local forest. The entire time, we lamented the lack of (decent) spruces and in the end decided that that weedy one over there would do. Well, we did three things wrong that day:
    1) the local forest is a municipal forest, which we found out after we’d arrived home with our booty;
    2) the tree we cut was not the right sort of tree, being a juniper, a protected species (= extra fines for cutting) in the country (but to be fair, the junipers I knew looked like this, rather than this, which can resemble weedy spruces; the thought ‘What a strange spruce, with juniper-like needles!’ did cross my mind before putting the saw to that trunk);
    3) apparently, since it’s a slow-growing species, we’d cut a really old and venerable juniper, one likely around since the beginning of the 20th century. Oops!

    Needles(s) to say, we escaped punishment that year, but every year around this time I get reminders about the extent of my botanical knowledge, and I haven’t lived it down yet.
    We did have a beautiful tree that year, though.

    +++

    Hello, Portia!
    Indeed, what global warming? Ha. :P It’s only not snowing here, in contrast to most other years! :)

    +++

    And to those seeking entertainment (Tintin, Asterix, Calvin and Hobbes), see here (should cut to #259 of previous thread, second page).

  3. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq,

    Ha! Tramping through a forest in search of a tree sounds really fun. I still haven’t gotten one, though I had thought to. Seems odd to get one when I live alone and there really won’t be presents hanging around to put underneath. *shrug*

    I’ve decided that instead of getting SO’s kids something big for xmas (they get so much stuff from other family members) I’m going to stick stuff in their stockings throughout the month. My mom told us an “elf” brought us little gifts like that when I was a kid, and it was fun to see if there was a bulge in the stocking.

  4. rq says

    broboxley
    There is definitely a reason I don’t do it in the first place. :) I’m good with berries, though – everything red is good, right? ;)
    But seriously. I’ve taken the time to study berries.
    Mushrooms? They’re all way too similar for me to risk liver transplantation and death.

  5. says

    In Canada, every berry that’s red when ripe is good—but how do you know if it’s ripe? Some pass though red on their way to blue or black.

    Some berries blue or black when ripe are good and no berries white when ripe are good. Anything green is not ripe.

  6. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    It’s the Argument from Frosty again.
    Those snowmen seem to be designed. Something more complex than them must have designed these snowpeople. Therefore_____?

  7. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    true atheists do not eat mushrooms

    (Yup, they’re on my list too)

  8. says

    Good morning!

    My car is probably screwed, but I probably won’t know until tomorrow for sure. I have to figure out how much it is worth to me to fix it rather than abandon it an just rent a car for a few hundred dollars to get the rest of the way home.

  9. broboxley OT says

    Markita #7 don’t fall for that old saw, sumac berries are red and you don’t want to eat many of those

  10. rq says

    Markita
    Umm, I would beg to differ as well – not everything that is ripe-red will be good for you. Specifically, lily-of-the-valley is one example that comes immediately to mind. :)
    But you’re right, a lot of what’s blue or black when ripe (and good – blueberries, blackberries…) goes through a red phase.
    There’s a joke that works better in Latvian about blueberries:
    Q: Why are bluberries red?
    A: Because they’re green (unripe)!

  11. joed says

    Can anyone point me in the right direction to find authentic layman science sites. Basically, anthropology, archeology, paleo type human stuff that is authentic.
    If such sites are still available. Disapointing to read an article and come to a reference from the bible.

  12. Beatrice says

    Lily of the valley is a pretty flower, but I get a horrible headache and have trouble breathing from their scent in a closed space.

  13. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Oh, man, Joe, that sucks!

    ===

    LOTV is my favorite flower scent. Daffodil is my favorite flower for the look of it.

  14. says

    Bro, you need to go mushroom-hunting with an experienced picker, that’s all.

    Ah! My wife walks through the woods looking at mushrooms while I look at the birds. She wants to learn the difference, and once tried talking to an obvious expert, out merrily plucking. The phrase “if looks could kill” was never more apt.

  15. jackiepaper says

    Just popping in to tell you all how much I’d love to gift you with cookies and beer. Have a happy day!

  16. onychophora says

    The Troi-rape trope in so many TNG episodes was very, very annoying, to say the least. Anyone notice that the incidence really ramped up after Roddenberry died? The ‘soul’ was sucked out of the franchise when he passed. Alas.

    In other news and notes, I’m FREAKING OUT. I taught an online class last semester, and I had mejor problemos with a couple students. It got bad, involved deans, provost, etc. Aaaaand guess what? One of them (voluntarily) signed up to be IN MY CLASS next semester. Ahhhh!

  17. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    We were able to get Roommate’s stuff moved,

    Huzzah!

    although I eventually had to hire a u-haul van to get it in.

    Bummer! Hope it wasn’t too expensive.

    Tony: Yeah, that’s just the sort of thing They would pull…if they thought They could get away with it; but it’s so hard to be incognito when you’ve got flames pouring outta your muzzle. Talk about your blown cover!

    *hugs* for Beatrice. Ready with a sympathetic…eyeball, if needed.

    Needles(s) to say,

    *snirk!*

    I saw that, rq.
    :)

    Joe: :(

    What can I say? OKC is a treacherous place.

    OK is a treacherous place. Escape while you still can!

    And hope that it doesn’t follow your trail.

    Joe, this is right after ‘we completely own our cars now!’ isn’t it? IRONY…

    More like planned obsolescence at work.
    -

  18. says

    People are friendly in Oklahoma. There are worse places to be broken down than here.

    My credit card is in Declined City, so I can’t rent a car. Fuck. How am I supposed to get to the store to get beer and chips, not to mention pet supplies? UGH.

  19. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    It’s freaking hard to run a business like an actual professional when you have a landlord who can’t be arsed to fucking give you notice before sending repairmen to interrupt client meetings.

    /rage.

  20. rq says

    Portia and Beatrice
    I also love the smell of lily-of-the-valley (Diorissimo, anyone?).
    And I get headaches from just lilies, lily-of-the-valley doesn’t bother me, so I feel for you, Beatrice. :(

    +++

    Improbable Joe
    That sucks. Poor you, no beer and chips. :( /snark
    I hope you get everything sorted out soon, though!!!

    +++

    cicely
    *all innocence* Saw what? *blink blink*

  21. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq

    I just added that perfume to my “someday” wishlist :)

  22. Beatrice says

    rq,

    re:perfumes

    Have you tried “La petite robe noire” from Guerlain? I tried it only once, but I absolutely fell in love with it.

  23. carlie says

    onychophora – ah, but you’ve expanded your syllabus to take into account any and all situations that have arisen lately, yes? So whatever they did before, they can’t pull again.

  24. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    rq: Innocence? Ha! I do not believe it.

    After all, you are a self-confessed Advocate for Horses.
    -

  25. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Bacon is one of the many memes of this place that I never played along with.

    Not sure if people will react with horror or find it intriguing. Perhaps both.

    Bacon Jello

  26. rq says

    cicely
    No, not half-confessed. I’m pretty sure I confessed completely. But like you siad, it controls my mind, right, so I’m innocent, because I am not under my own control…

    Beatrice
    No, I hadn’t heard of that one, but I’ll be sure to check it out!

    Portia re: landlord
    My sympathies. :( Craptacular.

  27. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Thanks rq. On the bright side, my oven is repaired now, so that your regularly scheduled (holiday baking) programming can now resume.

  28. says

    onychophora, Joe
    That sucks (differently for each of you, but still). USB brandy all round.

    Bummer! Hope it wasn’t too expensive.

    Looks like $40-50, plus I need to sort some things out with the carsharing outfit.

  29. rq says

    Portia
    Yumyums!! :) Let the cookingstravaganza begin!

    cicely
    Also, I misread ‘self-confessed’ as ‘half-confessed’. I think it’s because there’s an open can of peas in the fridge. Messing with my reading.

  30. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    rq
    That was self-confessed, not half-confessed. I hear that math is important, so that probably makes a difference.
    I will concede that you are wholly under Their control, but it appears as if you are a willing participant in Their unholy machinations, rather than an unwilling victim of Their sinister Mind Control Powers.
    -

  31. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    rq
    Messing with your mind, you mean! See, once you let the Horses in, the peas insinuate their twisty tendrils into your unprotected brainmeatz.

    You may not be who you are….
    -

  32. Pteryxx says

    My credit card is in Declined City, so I can’t rent a car. Fuck. How am I supposed to get to the store to get beer and chips, not to mention pet supplies? UGH.

    *whispers* called it. >_>

  33. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    I made Cream Cheese cookies on Saturday at SO’s house, before his oven started emitting dangerous levels of CO^2. (What is it with ovens lately? Who’s sabotaging my cookie-making?) That’s identical to the recipe I used except I used almond extract instead of lemon peel (but lemon ones sound awesome). It doubles well.

  34. rq says

    cicely
    I revel in the mind-control. Means I get to do a lot less thinking myself.
    Ah, this is the life…!
    Carrot?

  35. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    rq
    Only if that sucker is baked as a cake, and covered in delicious cream cheese frosting.
    -

  36. Pteryxx says

    Joe: idea… maybe you can find a rental agency that’ll let you use a pre-paid credit card? I don’t have a card either, but I’ve used pre-paid for hotels. Then, you just have to buy and activate the pre-paid card. Big-box stores have them, so do banks and credit unions.

    (Also, y’know, me driving up there, still on the table…)

  37. Pteryxx says

    also re #47, sorry. That was supposed to be kinda-sympathetic-I’m-still-here irony, not snark, but I’m not very alert and missed big-time.

  38. Beatrice says

    Portia,

    Looks nice. I’m still not sure what I will be making this year besides snickerdoodles and kuglof. Your cream cheese cookies are a definite possibility. SInce cookies will probably make a Christmas gift to my friend, I’ll have to make a lot of different kinds.

  39. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Beatrice,
    Your recipes look yummy, too. I’m baking as gifts, as well. Some for the ladies at the bank who are endlessly helpful with work stuff, and some for the support staff at the other office I freelance at. Etc, etc. Cream cheese ones are both light and rich, weirdly. I love them. Too much, probably;)

  40. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    rq, thanks for the Tintin. I am downloading now. My computer doesn’t presently extract .rar files, but I can download an extractor program, no problem. (I’m assuming if you have a program to make them, it comes with an extractor, but an extractor’s not included in my old computer—it came with a .zip extractor, though.)

  41. Beatrice says

    I don’t have a cookie press, so I won’t be able to make all the fancy shapes. Oh well, I’ll think of something, probably use a bag and try to make some nice swirly shapes.

  42. says

    I remember now why I only ever sign up for counseling when I’m feeling the worst.

    I have no idea how it’s supposed to help me to be told that I need to learn to push through my anxieties, or to be told I need to develop more self-discipline, when I just finished explaining that I didn’t have the energy/willpower to both manage my depression and have self-discipline, and that the current level of “laziness” and disorganization is the balance I’ve worked out for myself between being self-disciplined and managing my depression.

    especially i don’t know how I’m supposed to be helped by being told I should try to show up to lectures far more regularly, when I just finished explaining that I’d tried that previously and that it only lead to even earlier burnout, and that the sporadic attendance is a coping mechanism without which I can’t make it through a semester at all.

    grrr

  43. Ogvorbis says

    Threadrupt.

    I see a certain regular is now back on hir ‘I’m not advocating genocide, just killing those who I think might commit terrorist acts and why are you all accusing me of being a genocidal racist/bigot?’ kick.

    I have now had three people tell me that I look like Walt from Breaking Bad. Is this a good thing?

    I got my car back (I am so glad to be back in my car — that Nissan Quest was an epic POS).

    Happy Saturday to all.

  44. ImaginesABeach says

    Not to brag or anything, but the kids and I have prepared and frozen 16 different kinds of cookies so far, and it’s only December 3.

  45. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Janine @34:
    Although I do love bacon, I’m going with HORROR.

  46. strange gods before me ॐ says

    I see a certain regular is now back on hir ‘I’m not advocating genocide, just killing those who I think might commit terrorist acts and why are you all accusing me of being a genocidal racist/bigot?’ kick.

    Yes, but, it’s already going on over in Thunderdome. Let’s not encourage spillover here?

    I have now had three people tell me that I look like Walt from Breaking Bad. Is this a good thing?

    I think so! In most episodes, especially after the first season, Walt is a sexy badass.

  47. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Joe, Jadehawk:
    You both have my sympathies. So sorry.
    ****

    At our Pharyngula commune, what say we all go horseback riding? I will be cicely’s White Knight and protect her from those sweet little carrot munchers. Then we can have a round of Pea Pelting with Portia…

  48. Ogvorbis says

    At our Pharyngula commune, what say we all go horseback riding?

    Er, what? I mean, I do have some good cowboy boots and more than a couple of cowboy hats, but do you really want to ride the evil things? For pleasure? Then people will think they are useful and want to keep them around.

  49. rq says

    Portia
    Cream Cheese cookies? Anything with cream cheese is a step towards heaven in my (cook)book. It even made pumpkin pie bearable, because now it was cheesecake with pumpkin, not pumpkin pie with cream cheese. :)

    cicely
    Indeed, I may not be who I am. I may be… you… DUNDUNDUNNNNN!!!

  50. rq says

    Tony @64
    We have a Pharyngula commune? Do the horses get homeopathic treatment? I’m all for the riding, but whatever happened to pelting Portia with pastries? We can pelt cicely with the peas. After we eat a cooked carrot with cream cheese icing on top for lunch.

    Joe
    Dammit! Wish I could help you out somehow!

    Jadehawk
    I hope you manage to get through to your counsellor. :(

    Ogvorbis
    I don’t watch the show, but… if this is about right, then it can’t be a bad thing.

  51. says

    Good evening
    Joe
    Oh shit, I’m sorry to hear
    (((hugs)))

    Jadehawk
    Argh, that sounds like Agony Aunt level to me. I’m sorry that they’re not more helpful.

    +++
    Nobody mention cookies until I manage to finish those whose dough has been sitting in my fridge since Wednesday and for which I need a special meat-grinder with cookie-gadget which I have to return to my mum in law tomorrow.

    But maybe it will be a good distraction from the merry roundabout in my head. My dear family is short of bursting into flames -again.
    Some time this week my mum’s psychiatrist will get a letter from us telling him a few things he probably doesn’t know.
    So, in that house in which I fortunately don’t live there is my old gran who needs to be taken care of 24/7, my sister who does 90% of the caretaking, my mum who does 2% but who causes an extra 10% of work and cliams to be the one doing all the work, and my dad who picks up the rest of the tab.
    My sister is there because she doesn’t want to leave gran, my dad is there because he doesn’t want to leave my sister alone*, and my mum who’s wondering what’s the matter with the rest of us.

    *Which is remarkable, because the two of them are about as close as Switzerland and Turkey.

  52. rq says

    Giliell
    I vote make cookies. Sometimes a bit of manual labour can help calm things down/sort things out in your head. :( *HUGS*

  53. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Tony, I saw that you left this at Ashley Miller’s blog. I did not want to derail there and you are here often.

    I can’t fathom how a parent could do such a thing to their child.

    I guess I have to agree that I cannot fathom this either. But it happens all the time. Think of all of the homeless LGBT youth, most were thrown out of their childhood homes by their parents. While many parents do come around to accepting their children, many will allowed learned behavior to destroy relationships and lives.

    I am sure that you are aware of all this but, damn, I had to say something.

  54. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Janine:
    It would have been better for me to say that I cannot understand it. Rejecting a loved one on the basis of who they love is incomprehensible to me. You are correct, I am more than aware of how some parents do not change.
    Before he died, M told me his father told him point blank that if any of his kids turned out gay, he would shoot them.

  55. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    Improbable Joe, you might want to get a second opinion on your car repair. I’ve had a few times where strange mechanics told me that I needed $$$ engine work, but all I needed was a new radiator cap, or I when I managed to get it home with duct tape. (There’s also been a time I just left the car to die.)

    I am glad you have a credit card.

  56. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    rq: we joked earlier this year about forming a Horde commune somewhere away from the sexism, racism, homophobia etc of both the ‘Net and IRL. Last I checked, this fantasy (which really is just that, and not one I truly want…who wants to be isolated from the rest of the world? As a place to escape to and reboot/relax–> good thing) is in Alaska.
    ****
    Ogvorbis:
    Yes, we will have a blast riding horses. You can rid a pony instead if you want.

  57. ImaginesABeach says

    You can rid a pony instead if you want.

    I’m guessing cicely will only be happy if we rid ourselves of all ponies (and horses).

  58. says

    Menyambal,

    I know enough to know that the engine was pretty bad off, and somehow lost all the oil all at once, so the diagnosis seems not-unreasonable. Beyond that… what can you do? I’m going to get a cheeseburger and some onion rings.

  59. rq says

    No, ImaginesABeach, the real question is, rid a pony of what? Perhaps the pony would like to be rid of cicely?

    Tony
    I’d join that commune, and I’d bring the family, too. Alaska seems fine, I’m a winter person, but… No other options? That’s still the US (technically, even though you can see Russia from it).

  60. Ogvorbis says

    Good to hear about the credit card.

    Worst.
    Move.
    Ever.

    Maybe. I remember trying to poop after being on morphine for ten days and that was a really really bad move. :)

    You can rid a pony instead if you want.

    Good idea. If I ride a pony, when I fall off it won’t hurt as much.

    ========

  61. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    rq:
    Of course it must be the U.S. we are like, TOTES the most awesomest, amazingest, bestest, most successfullest, goodest country in the world…

  62. Beatrice says

    Giliell,

    The last time I made something like that, I tried to squirt the dough into a round shape. After I brushed them with chocolate, they ended up looking like little piles of shit. At least you went for Is.

    Note to self: don’t make the same mistake with Portia’s cream cheese cookies

  63. says

    Jadehawk
    I wonder, have they given you a counselor, or an actual psychiatrist, i.e. someone with medical training? In either case, they’re wretchedly failing at their job, and you have my sympathies.

    Joe
    At least you’re able to finish your move. I wish I could help. That said, this has been an amazing adventure for me; after all, adventure is someone else having a really awful time of it somewhere far away, right? *ducks*
    rq
    Cream Cheese is an abomination, and I can’t conceive why anyone would ruin perfectly good cookies by putting it in them.

    I made cheese-filled sourdough rolls last night, myself. I was going to fill them with bacon too, but the bacon ends and tips were frozen, so it’ll have to wait until next time.

  64. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    rq, you are semi-transitively Spartacus.

    The Pony wants rid of me, I want rid of the Pony—best for us both that we never meet in the first place.
    -

  65. says

    Pteryxx:

    also re #47, sorry. That was supposed to be kinda-sympathetic-I’m-still-here irony, not snark, but I’m not very alert and missed big-time.

    No worries. It is all going to work out in the end, plus or minus one more night in this hotel. I may need 24 hours to secure a one-way vehicle.

  66. rq says

    Ogvorbis
    By the way, did you get Asterix alright?

    Menyambal
    About the .rar thing: I’ll try to remember for the next time (if there be one), because I can just as easily ZIP the files as RAR them. :) But I’m glad you’re looking forward to the reading.

    Giliell
    It sounds delicious!!

    Beatrice
    HA! This is why I have never sprinkled anything with chocolate. I have yet to try making formed cookies (I’ve only ever made cookie-cutter ones). I’ll make a note not to sprinkle with chocolate.

    Tony
    Right, you own the world. I keep forgetting.

    Dalillama
    Cream cheese? An Abomination??
    You can’t possibly be serious.

    cicely
    Make a pony happy? You? You?
    Best not to meet, indeed.
    We’ll put you on the donkey, then. Mule, if you prefer – they’re bigger.

    +++

    Tomorrow I dig out recipe for bacon rolls, because there have been too many cookies on this thread. Time for something healthy. With bacon.

    +++

    Good night to everyone! A round of hugs, cookies, happy thoughts, encouragement, as appropriate!

  67. Beatrice says

    rq,

    Do sprinkle or brush with chocolate! Just not after you’ve made swirly round cookies with a peak in the middle.

  68. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Holy hell am I threadrupt!

    Thanks for the links to Asterix and Calvin and Hobbes! ^_^

    A few comments:

    Tea

    I went to Teavana not long ago. I bought $50 of tea in a sampler. Conclusions thus far: “Golden Monkey” is delicious. “Yunan Golden Pu’eh” is intriguingly delicious.

    Their English Breakfast is an ordinary English Breakfast. Good, as EB’s go, but rather blah.

    Car Insurance

    So Progressive has decided that the proper reward for 12 months of no tickets, incidents, claims, or anything, plus paying everything on time, is to jack my bill up. Did some googling, discovered that Progressive is vastly overcharging me, compared to what Geico and Allstate have to offer (seriously: that “15 minutes will save you 15% or more” thing for Geico could get me saving 57%).

    So I said to myself, “Okay. My insurance agent is an independent who deals with 10-15 companies. I’ll go see him, and see what he can get me. After all, many of my problems last year were that I was a first-time car buyer and hadn’t been listed on anyone’s insurance since my parents dropped me 6 years previously, so I was an unknown quantity.”

    His hours: M-F 9-4:30. Closed Sat and Sun.

    Which means that if I’m going to go in I have to go during work hours. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  69. says

    Ogvorbis,

    One time, in the Marine Corps…. I was out in the field playing GI Joe in the woods, and I went 9 days without pooping. I think they design the field rations to discourage diarrhea but DAMN. When the dam burst, I thought I was going to die. Good times !!

    Speaking of which, being back in Oklahoma brings back memories. If I had a car and money, I know a few strip clubs where I could be the sad old pathetic person.

  70. says

    Tomorrow I dig out recipe for bacon rolls, because there have been too many cookies on this thread. Time for something healthy. With bacon.

    Recipe? Make roll dough and wrap it around a glob of cheese and bacon before you proof it. (cook the bacon first). How much more of a recipe is called for?

  71. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Oh, also:

    How is it that it took me until I was 27 years old to realize that pomegranates are fucking delicious?!

  72. Ogvorbis says

    By the way, did you get Asterix alright?

    Haven’t been able to get into that email. Sometimes I wonder if it is ever possible for me to not fuck something up.

    Did some googling, discovered that Progressive is vastly overcharging me, compared to what Geico and Allstate have to offer (seriously: that “15 minutes will save you 15% or more” thing for Geico could get me saving 57%).

    I have geico. And from when the deer hit us to when I picked up the car this morning they have been fantastic. And going from a ‘special deal’ through the union to geico saved me about $700 a year.

    One time, in the Marine Corps….

    I considered joining the USMC. Dad is still recovering from his stint back in the 1950s. They wouldn’t take me because I knew both of my parents . . .

    Nine days? Damn. When I’ve had MREs at fires, I’m lucky if I can hold it in for 1/2 hour.

  73. says

    BTW, today in the lecture a young couple sat behind me.
    The guy raised all of my red flags and the hair on my neck.
    If it had been any good I would have turned and told the young woman to drop that manipulating dipshit.
    He was constantly negging, telling her in the “stupid little woman” voice that noo, dearie, the Hobbit takes place before the LotR, you know when Bilbo, Frodo’s father (!) sets out to find the ring! And oh I’m so sad you can’t sleep over at my place tonight and yes I know where that is stop talking, while all the time having his arm around her neck. You know, not around her shoulders, but really around her neck.

  74. says

    Ogvorbis, no talking shit about the Marines, elsewise I’ll have to make ridiculous cyber-posturing comments or something. :)

    The USMC is an interesting mix of us low-class folks though. Some people, you assume they joined for the free dental, but I also worked with some obscenely smart people, that managed to make me look like just a normal-level genius. One roommate apparently managed to get kicked out of the UK and his dual citizenship suspended/revoked when he went to live with his mom after discharge, for too many bar fights in his first few months there… but he had most of the relevant manuals all but memorized, and could work a slide rule like a Heinlein hero. He could also pass the physical fitness test running backwards (and did!) and had a back so broad you could project movies onto it.

  75. Ogvorbis says

    The USMC is an interesting mix

    Not just Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children. The Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard are an amazing mix of people. One kid I went to high school with has a PhD in nuclear physics paid for by the Navy — he’s been in since 1984.

  76. says

    have they given you a counselor, or an actual psychiatrist, i.e. someone with medical training?

    counselor; pretty sure the actual psychiatrists cost actual money to talk to. though I do have an appointment at the actual health clinic later this week

  77. says

    Ogvorbis,

    My father-in-law was a submariner in the nuclear fleet from basically the birth of nuclear power (he lied about his age and enlisted at 15) and up until earlier this year he has been doing consulting work for between $90 and $120 an hour all over the country. Poor and no formal education but just the smartest man in almost any room.

  78. Ogvorbis says

    Joe:

    One of the smartest people I ever met was a VW mechanic down in Maryland. He was a member of one of the more conservative Christian sects (not Mennonite, not Amish, but the same general idea) and he loved history. But it annoyed him when translations were ‘off’. So he taught himself to read German, Italian, Latin, Hebrew, Polish, Russian, Yiddish, Portuguese, Spanish, and Gaelic. Couldn’t speak anything but English and German, but he could read those languages fluently. The bookshelf in his garage was one-third VW manuals, one-third dictionaries and one-third history books in lots of languages. His ‘specialty’ was pogroms, crusades and religious wars. He had a 7th grade education. And was an incredible VW mechanic (he could rebuild a VW air-cooled engine and have no parts left over).

  79. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Long Post Ahead.
    Crossposted from the Thunderdome:Ok, Internet access is MINE. MINE. MINE. No one else may partake of it.
    :0
    In all seriousness, when scholars look back into the mists of time looking for evidence of a teal deer, this post shall be it. No, I’m not full of myself. Yes, I am giving warning that this post will be long. Do not despair. There shall be paragraph breaks.

    How religion fucked my sex life
    I sat across from him, not five feet away, yet it felt like a vast gulf between us. I could see the pain in his eyes. You could cut the pain and anguish with a knife. He sat there in that state just before crying. You know that state. It’s the “I’ve got to be strong. I can’t give in. I can’t show this emotion. If I break down crying now, I will be a complete mess” state. I sat there wishing with every fiber of my being that I could do something to help him out. Yet there was nothing I could do other than offer my advice and my support. So I told Jim (obviously this is not his name, but since he is in the closet, I’m not about to out him in any way, shape or form):

    “There is nothing wrong with you. You are a good person. What we did was consensual. We both wanted it. No one was hurt. There is no need to feel guilty or shameful. I enjoyed myself. I would like to do it again. But I can’t do that until you are more comfortable in your skin. I can tell the pain that you’re in. You are struggling tremendously and I hate that. I hate that you’re having to choose between your faith and your very identity. I wish you could know what it is like to not have that guilt. I wish you could know the freedom that comes with accepting and being happy with who you are. I’m not saying I’m better than you. I don’t believe that. No one is better than anyone else. But I do feel that I am more comfortable in my skin than you are currently. I look at you and I see the problem. You’re struggling with your religious belief and currently, that belief is winning. And you’re in pain. I can’t command you-nor would I want to-but I hope that you don’t lose my phone number. It seems to me that you don’t have many people to talk to. Few, if any people to open up to and discuss what’s going on in your head, without fear of judgment. I want you to know that if you need to talk…if you need to cry…call me. Text me. I will listen. I won’t judge you.”

    With that, I left the hotel, with my head hung low.

    Thursday of last week, I was bored and searching around online for something to do. At that point (and currently), I’m struggling financially. The job that I have is unable to provide enough money to pay my bills. Hell I’m writing this on my laptop from a bar where Wi Fi is available because my cable (thus my Internet access) has been cut off. I have no clue when I will be able to afford to reactivate it. Meh. First World problems. Anyways, I was checking out Adam4Adam, which is an online gay site for guys meeting guys. It serves to bring men together in search of dating, sex, threesomes. Whatever the heck they’re looking for. By and large, I’ve gotten past the desire to hook up for sex. At 37, I’m *beyond ready* to have something meaningful with another guy.

    But I haven’t had sex in almost a year.

    Enter Jim. I got a message from him saying he was intrigued by my profile and pictures (in short, my profile mentioned my appreciation for logic, reason, science and freethinking). He, however, had no pictures. I politely told him that while I appreciated the compliments, without a picture, I had no way of knowing if I was attracted to him. His response was to say that he was in the closet and was unable to come out at the time. I responded back that I take no issue with that, and that I wouldn’t judge him because he wasn’t out. I let him know that I’m well aware that people have their reasons for either staying in the closet or coming out of it, and given that I am not him and I’m not aware of what’s going on in his life, it is not my place to judge his decisions (even if I knew all the details-it is still not my life, it was his). After exchanging emails, he decided to send me pictures. To be honest, I was pleasantly surprised (in my experience, those without pictures for me to view don’t turn out to be my type): I found him attractive. We agreed to meet up Saturday night. He informed me that he would rather meet at a hotel instead of my house because even though I seemed like a nice guy, he couldn’t be too sure. I took no issue with that. It’s an entirely reasonable position.

    Saturday rolled around and I met him at a hotel here in town. It was clear from the moment we entered the hotel room that Jim had not had any attention or contact in some time. He later told me that he hadn’t had any sexual interaction since the summer of 2011. Damn.

    Fast forward through the fun.

    We finished up and I looked at him and his demeanor had changed. His face was sunken. His head was tilted down. He looked lost in thought. I asked him what was wrong. He told me that he felt guilt. He felt ashamed. When I asked why, he told me it was because we did something he wasn’t supposed to do. Even though I *knew* what he was referring to, I asked anyways. He said because of his religious beliefs-Christianity to be exact-that what he did was wrong. Tears didn’t appear to be far behind.

    Interlude:
    I’ve never had any deep religious conversation with someone in meatspace. The ensuing conversation took up more time than the sex.
    end Interlude

    We hadn’t talked much about our chose occupations prior to meeting. I mentioned that I was a bartender, but he didn’t talk about his job. As we began chatting, I asked him what he did (at this point, given the guilt that I saw on his face, and the shame he felt, I suspected he was a priest). He asked me not to make fun of him or to laugh and I promised not to.

    He told me he worked at a daycare center.

    I looked at him and said “so what”. I let him know, in no uncertain terms that there was nothing wrong with that. There is no reason to shame someone for their job. If that’s what he’s chosen to do, who the fuck am I to judge him for it. Moreover, when he told me that he enjoys his job, I told him that I thought that was great. There are many people who do NOT enjoy their job. People that are miserable. That he *has* a job and it’s one that he enjoys is a good thing. I let him know my opinion of people who judge others based on their job.

    They can suck the shit out of my asshole.

    Moving on, he began to give details of his life and upbringing (it turns out he’s familiar with the city in Alabama that I lived in before I moved to Florida; small world, eh?). He waffled between telling his stories and feeling shameful. I made a point-multiple times-of letting him know that he did nothing wrong. No one was hurt. We both wanted to have sex. We both enjoyed ourselves. What is wrong with that. Of course, he replied with “it’s against the Bible”. After a short time, I told him I was an atheist. It didn’t really seem to affect him much. No shock. No derision. No criticism. No judgment. I was rather surprised.

    Over the course of our conversation, I was able to explain many reasons why I am an atheist. I was able to channel the wonderful, intelligent, witty Greta Christina when I told him that supernatural explanations for the world have consistently been replaced by scientific ones over the course of human existence. I told him that I felt Christianity does not have the market cornered on religion…that there are many other religions. I told him that I don’t believe in *any* of the thousands of gods that humanity has created (and was able to mention that he is an atheist WRT all religions BUT one). He was unable to offer any proof of his god. He was unable to discuss why he believed what he did. I mentioned that one of the reasons many people have their religious beliefs was due to indoctrination from youth. He confirmed that he never really decided to be a believer, but rather, that it was just always there.

    It turns out that Jim is one of those believers that *has* read the Bible. I asked him point blank-twice-if he had read the Bible. He said he’d read it cover to cover. Given his responses, I’m inclined to believe him. He was able to quote various portions of the Bible (not unlike joe 4060). He was able to locate-quickly-passages in the Bible that supported his position. We actually talked specific stories in the Bible. When I brought up how genocidal his God is, we discussed the story of the flood of Noah. I flat out told him that it’s ridiculous that we criticize Adolph Hitler and the Nazi’s for committing genocide, yet God is able to get a free pass. And that it doesn’t matter what the reason was. The end result was that countless people…innumerable living beings-from plants to animals and bacteria-were killed in a worldwide flood because of God. I told him that it makes *no* sense for God to punish humanity for actions that he created us to do. I asked Jim if God was omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, and omnipresent. His response was yes. To which I said, “why the hell did he punish humanity for doing something he created us to do?”

    No answer.

    I followed up with “It makes no sense that God punished humanity for doing the things he knew we were going to do…things he created us to do…things he knew in advance that we were going to do.”

    Now don’t get me wrong. Jim didn’t sit there and look gobsmacked as I presented all this logic and lack of evidence. He was refuting. He made some counter examples to my criticisms of the Flood. He even made some interesting observations about *logic* that I, in my lack of experience, was unable to counter. He made an “argument” that I was countering his faith with logic, but that I was using logic on the same basis he used faith. I.E. that I was using logic as some sort of foundational principle, without being able to explain *why* logic is better than faith. I actually had to bow out of that argument. I agreed that logic makes more sense than faith, but I wasn’t able to explain why arguing logically makes more sense than arguing from faith. Again, this was all in the wake of having sex. I wasn’t exactly prepared to make arguments for atheism. Despite being at FtB for a few years and listening to the great argument provided by the bloggers and commenters here. For a few seconds, I felt like a failure. It didn’t last long. I told him that I didn’t feel confident enough to pursue that line of reasoning. I couldn’t argue his point. I conceded. Only to my lack of knowledge.

    (at this point, I was metaphorically kicking myself in the ass because I felt I *should* have been better)

    At one point he brought up…THE ARGUMENT FROM COMPLEXITY. He started saying “Imagine if you were walking along on a deserted island and you came upon…” To which I said “oh hell no! You are not bringing up the Argument from Design”. He said that’s what he was doing. It’s so damn funny, because I was exploring that very argument last week. I was able to refute his point. I was able to point out that if a watch requires a more complex designer to create it…and that creator is God…then something more complex had to design God. Of course he issued the standard response “God is eternal and requires no creator”. My response was that if it’s possible for something to exist without a creator, why can’t it be the universe.

    Crickets chirping.

    We also discussed other Christians. He couldn’t understand how some xtians were able to rationalize their beliefs and their sexuality. He felt they were trying to have their cake and eat it too. He even told me they weren’t *true Christians*.

    At which point, I yelped “Oh no you didn’t pull an No True Scotsman Fallacy??!” He was unfamiliar with this. My brain kicked in enough to pull out my cellphone and bring up Wikipedia’s definition, which I read off to him. He didn’t have much to say.
    We discussed how religious beliefs are justified by people for a variety of reasons, but no reason is superior to another, especially since there is no proof of any of them.

    Proof was something else he wasn’t able to offer. When I asked him why he believed in his religion but no others, he had no defense.

    At this point, I need to mention that he frequently displayed uncertainty about his beliefs. Sometimes he would say “I believe in the Bible” or “I believe in the truth of the Bible”. Other times, he would say “IF I believe what the Bible says is true.” Those times were quite telling. It told me that he wasn’t completely confident in his beliefs and was searching for a way to retain his beliefs while being gay.

    I think I shocked him more than once. At one point, he attempted an analogy. He tried to compare
    our enjoyable night or pleasure with the actions of a serial killer.

    Yeah.

    You read that right.

    I shut shit down FAST.

    I told him that the actions of a serial killed have a negative, detrimental impact on other human beings. Serial killers KILL people. What we did hurt no one. There is no comparison. Moreover, the very comparison is wrong and insulting.

    This was the only time where I came across as trying to “know better”. Because making that comparison was FUCKED UP.

    He accepted that it was a faulty analogy and backpeddeled. Which was good.

    I was saddened further when I noticed him grabbing his clothes. He had informed me that he’d never woken up to a guy and how much he looked forward to doing so. He even asked me when I arrived if I wanted to. My response was “of course”. To see him gathering his clothes, I could see how much things changed. I asked him if he wanted to leave and his response was yes. I didn’t try to stop him. I didn’t try to change his mind. I just reminded him that there was nothing wrong with what we did. I reminded him that his God created everything and nothing happens or will happen against his will. I told him “Remember, you turned out the way your God wanted.”

    I also told him literally, that everything we talked about cemented in my mind that activism is where I need to focus my energies. To see him sitting there struggling…nearly crying…

    …I’m not joking when I say that even as I type this, I’m having a hard time NOT crying.

    I told him that I feel religion is bad. That while religion has some good aspects to it, I feel that religious belief is detrimental and hurts humanity far more than it benefits us. I told him that because he was able to bring things down to Earth…that he was able to make things more personal for me in a way that I’d never done before. It was different this time. Despite this, I made a point of saying that while I’m against religion, I want to persuade people out of religion. I told him that I don’t want to force or coerce people out of their beliefs. I want to convince people to abandon their superstitious beliefs. I want to do so with no bloodshed. No violence. No manipulation.

    I just. want. to. talk.

    I hadn’t discussed religious beliefs with someone THIS deeply before.
    I hadn’t been able to see the harm in religious belief on a personal level before this.

    Now, I had.

    Now, I was able to see how fucked up religion makes people.

    Now, I was able to see, without any doubt, that I need to do my part to rid the world of religion.

    ****
    At various points during this conversation, I was having flashbacks to the discussion in the Thunderdome with joe4060. I even referred to it a few times. So many of the regulars here are so good at arguing their point. They have the scientific knowledge. They have the experience arguing. I’m not there yet. I want to be one day. I hope that at some point in the future, I’m able to refute the argument I faced this weekend with the strength, knowledge and confidence I see from so many of you.

    Fuck. I’m about to cry again.

    This site has changed my life.

    This weekend has given me a renewed focus and drive.

    There are so many people to thank. So many influential people.

    Thank you PZ Myers.

    Thank you Ed Brayton.

    Thank you to all the regulars at FtB.

    Thank you to all the bloggers at FtB.

    You have all made a difference.

    Never forget that.

    I know I never will.

  80. says

    Jadehawk
    Hopefully they can be a little more helpful there. I’m not at all convinced that ‘counselors’ are actually any more competent or useful for this type of thing than bartenders. Maybe less; the barkeep can at least pour you a drink.

  81. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    Uncle Sam’s Confused Group had some interesting mixes of people. At on place, we all wanted to take some test or other, most of the guys just to get the day off. I wanted to take it because, hey, it was a test. The guys somehow found out my score, and I got some odd respect after that. But one of those guys had a Civil War replica cannon, and could tell you everything about it and every engagement the original had been used in, and could serve and fire that thing like a machine. I still remember the day he trailered it up to a very secure Coast Guard base and said he was there to visit me.

  82. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    I wish there was a way to save comments or like them or something. Because wow, Tony, that was amazing.

    All I can say is that I hope you planted some sort of seed in his mind that will help him. And that maybe someday he’ll call/email you.

  83. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Esteleth:
    Thank you.
    My fondest wish is that Jim is able to attain the inner peace that he is searching for.

  84. Ogvorbis says

    the boyfriend bought me a full set of dice (d4-d20)

    made of chocolate

    Just don’t use them in a really hot game of D&D.

  85. says

    Tony,

    Easily comment of the month.

    You have my sympathy and my empathy and my best wishes… and most of all my thanks, for being brave and strong enough to share that with us.

  86. opposablethumbs says

    I already said what I think over at the ‘dome, but there’s no harm in repeating – that I think you’re a really great person, Tony, and that Jim was lucky to meet you. And I hope that even if he can’t take it all in now, someday he manages to really hear everything you had to say to him. And that you probably gave him the best and most needed support he ever got in his life.
    And also ♥!

  87. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Just don’t use them in a really hot game of D&D.

    Dang, I don’t think I can top that retort. Have some swill….

  88. carlie says

    made of chocolate

    i wonder how well-balanced they are

    Well, as long as you also eat some fruits and fiber-rich foods with them, it would be perfectly balanced. ;)

    Sorry the counselor sucked – if you have an appt. with someone else next, you can tell them exactly how much the first one sucked. If their triage people don’t even know what to do about depression, they’re training them wrong.

    Tony, I commented at the other thread, but I LOVE YOU YOU’RE AWESOME. Oh, wait, did I write that out loud?

    Joe, so sorry about the adventure. Now I feel like crap complaining about my car window and how I have to get a new tire this week. stupid fucking transportation.

    I bought this for my cousin’s baby. I’m not sure what the animal is – it looks kind of like Pooh, but also kind of like a hybrid between a seal and a penguin, but it does look festive. The site is very God-heavy, but eh, it had the cutest stuff. I bought some ornaments last week from another online store, and when they came in I realized the logo was “CHRISTmas store”, and there were Bible verses all over everything. I was annoyed that I hadn’t noticed that online, but was amused because they sell beer and margarita ornaments. Keeping Christ in Christmas, indeed.

  89. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    @121:
    Nothing has changed.
    3rd party advertisers. FtB has no control over the ads.

    Still, it is funny to see xtian advertisements here, no?

  90. thunk, cold air advection says

    Portia: Yes, it is TOO DAMN HOT. I want snow. Now.

    Tony: Well done, indeed. Very thought-provoking.

    Joe: Sorry about the car. :(

  91. birgerjohansson says

    Boardgame Review: “Beer & Vikings” http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/2012/12/02/boardgame-review-beer-vikings/
    — — — — — — — —
    Tony
    That you for your comment.
    P.S. I like horses. That is why I don’t sit on them.
    — — — — — — — —
    Having a conscript army means there is a full mix of talents in any group. It is good to have a car mechanic or a professional driver along with you. The diversity was amazing.
    Where I did my eleven months in the Swedish air force I met several who were familiar with science fiction authors that were “obscure”, such as Stanislaw Lem. One of the guys who served at the same meterological office after me eventually became one of Sweden’s most successful musical artists.
    — — — — — — — — — — — —
    Ogvorbis
    “But it annoyed him when translations were ‘off’”
    Once I learned a smidgeon of English early at school, I started reading English-language detective paperbacks.
    I unintentionally picked up enough skill to routinely read stuff in the original language, important if you want to really appreciate the skills of Pratchett and others.
    There is only so much even the best translator can do.
    — — — — — — — —
    I have come to realise that I was priviliged to grow up where I did. Big forests within walking distance, a big river with rapids bordering the farm, yet close enough to a sizable city for my parents to drive there in just a quarter of an hour.
    (plus, 3000-year-old rock carvings at the river, but I did not know it back then).
    But I never learned to tell which mushrooms were safe.

  92. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    thunk, birgerjohanssen, ednaz:
    Thank you.

    ****
    My self worth has been in the toilet lately. There have been times that I feel like I am taking up space on this planet better used by someone else. Then come those times where people respond to something I’ve said or done and their responses fill me with renewed vigor. Too often, I’m stuck inside my head, feeling worthless or useless. Support from others reminds me that I can and DO have a positive impact on people around me.
    To be able to help others in some way…what more can I ask?

  93. Ogvorbis says

    Comas can save lives.

    It can be the difference between ‘Let’s eat, Grandma,’ and ‘Let’s eat Grandma’!

  94. broboxley OT says

    Tony, you seem like a good person to me. Hopefully your self esteem will catch up with the high regards that others hold you in.

  95. Ogvorbis says

    Sometimes I worry about Boy. This just came out of his mouth: “I wonder if you can deep fry mayonnaise?

  96. says

    Tony
    from Thunderdome:

    I’ve been feeling useless lately. Not being able to pay bills or hang out with friends or take vacations…having to ask for financial help from my parents–> it has been stressful.

    I’m right there with you, man. *Hugs* are all I can offer, though.

    My self worth has been in the toilet lately. There have been times that I feel like I am taking up space on this planet better used by someone else.

    You kick ass, Tony. You’re a caring and compassionate person, and you make the Lounge (and other threads) brighter by your presence. BTW, since your bday is coming up/recently passed, I thought I might send you a print from L’s photography portfolio, if there’s a way I could get your address.

    @110
    Hell of a post. Thank you for sharing that, and I’m offering both props and sympathies.

  97. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, tell me AGW isn’t happening…second night in week where the temperature above 60 ºF at 8pm in early December.

  98. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    thunk

    Portia: Yes, it is TOO DAMN HOT. I want snow. Now.

    You hush, or I’ll drive the three hours to Chicago just to scowl at you in person. Harumph.

    Ogvorbis

    Er, what? I mean, I do have some good cowboy boots and more than a couple of cowboy hats, but do you really want to ride the evil things? For pleasure? Then people will think they are useful and want to keep them around.

    Yes. Riding horses is nice. I miss it.

    rq

    Cream Cheese cookies? Anything with cream cheese is a step towards heaven in my (cook)book. It even made pumpkin pie bearable, because now it was cheesecake with pumpkin, not pumpkin pie with cream cheese. :)

    Mmmm yes the rich goodness of cream cheese makes anything awesome. I made an excellent pumpkin cheesecake last year. This year I just didn’t have the energy. Ah well.

    I’m all for the riding, but whatever happened to pelting Portia with pastries?

    OM NOM NOM
    Pelt away!

    Tony

    *hugs* and congratulations on conducting yourself wonderfully. It seems like it came out a little disappointing for you, but you did excellently. Thank you for sharing that with all of us. I’ll add my voice to the chorus that thinks you are a stellar human being. I enjoy sharing a thread with you. Your thoughtful comments are heartwarming, and your cheerful comments are, well, cheering. Thanks for sharing your great personality and person with us.

  99. carlie says

    Sometimes I worry about Boy. This just came out of his mouth: “I wonder if you can deep fry mayonnaise?

    The answer is: of course you can, if you try hard enough. After all, if you can deep fry kool-aid, I think you could deep fry anything.

  100. thunk, cold air advection says

    Nerd:

    Yeah it’s crazy all right. One hot day does not make a pattern, but a whole string of them all year for 50 years do.

  101. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Whargarble. My brain is all buzzy with thoughts and bouncy ideas. I’ve been trying to unpack a single paragraph from God Emperor of Dune and am getting nowhere. Anyone read them and willing to hash this crap out?

  102. Ogvorbis says

    After all, if you can deep fry kool-aid, I think you could deep fry anything.

    Boy now wants to make deep-fried Jager Bombs.

    He is in college (Russian history major (yeah, that’s useful (says the guy who majored in modern European military history))) so I guess it makes sense.

  103. Ogvorbis says

    Whargarble. My brain is all buzzy with thoughts and bouncy ideas. I’ve been trying to unpack a single paragraph from God Emperor of Dune and am getting nowhere. Anyone read them and willing to hash this crap out?

    Which paragraph?

  104. says

    After all, if you can deep fry kool-aid, I think you could deep fry anything.

    I question the claim that you can meaningfully deep fry koolaid. People mix koolaid powder into hush puppy batter and deep fry that, but those are koolaid flavored hushpuppies, not deep fried koolaid.

  105. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Which paragraph?

    The one where Leto explains to Duncan why the Fish Speakers are all women.

  106. Ogvorbis says

    The one where Leto explains to Duncan why the Fish Speakers are all women.

    Gong upstars to chek my own bok.

  107. says

    Tony/#110:

    Awesome doesn’t do you justice. Doesn’t even touch you. I wish now for a better world. You, at least, deserve one.

  108. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    Ogvorbis, no talking shit about the Marines, elsewise I’ll have to make ridiculous cyber-posturing comments or something. :)

    Seconded. (And no, I’m not blind to the scandals; just narrow your brush, ‘mkay?)

    My father was a Marine, my mother was a Marine, my brother and sister were Marines, my nephew is a Marine this very minute (if not, IMO, a sterling example of one), and I’d probably have been a Marine if the recruiter hadn’t told me I wouldn’t be allowed to drive a tank. (Or pack a rifle in the infantry; I managed to restrain my disappointment, there.) Diss indiviudual Marines if you must (and my nephew is a sociopathic little fink, and I won’t hear any different, and you may diss him at your pleasure), but not the whole Corps.

    Tony: I commented on your teal deer in the [Thunderdome].

    I still remember the day he trailered it up to a very secure Coast Guard base and said he was there to visit me.

    :) :) :)

    Chocolate dice….*drooooool*

    Save vs. Nomnomnom at -4.
    -

  109. Ogvorbis says

    Diss indiviudual Marines if you must (and my nephew is a sociopathic little fink, and I won’t hear any different, and you may diss him at your pleasure), but not the whole Corps.

    note to self: Self, no more humour is allowed that is directed in any towards, or even near, the USMC. Got it.

  110. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    Esteleth, I’ve read it, but I’d have to see the paragraph in question.
    -

  111. Ogvorbis says

    cicely:

    please not that I did NOT ‘dis’ the USMC. Joking about is not the same as disrespecting unless you are coming at this from a direction my stupid little US Army 98GL brain cannot comprehend.

  112. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    Ogvorbis, it is important that you remember at all times that I am a completely humorless person.

    (And that Horses are Eeeeeeevil.)
    -

  113. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    More seriously (because I am without humor), I feel that my nephew’s being in the USMC is an example (one of many) of how having quotas in recruiting can be a Massively Bad Idea. Religiously and racially bigoted, and wanted to join up, as he said, so he could kill people. I cannot diss him enough.

    But I’m willing to try….
    -

  114. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    I know we probably have different editions, but what page are we talking about?

    Page 104 of the 1981 Putnam hardback. Duncan is having breakfast with Moneo, who paraphrases the explanation (couched in endless “As Lord Leto says…”)

  115. Ogvorbis says

    “The Lord Leto says that when it was denied and external enemy, the all-male army always turned against its own population. Always.”

    This one?

  116. Ogvorbis says

    Well, the part about the adolescent attitudes, including the strongly sublimated homosexuality, within the military certainly seems right to me (based on my limited experience and studies). What are you wondering about?

  117. Richard Austin says

    Esteleth:
    Erm, you aren’t going to like the answer.

    I’m not sure if it’s all in that paragraph, but the whole reason why Leto’s army is led by women is that a man-dominated army leads to homosexuality and violence. Women are the ones who have to “pick up the pieces”, as it were, so they tend to be less violent. Putting them in charge means that the army will avoid violence if possible. Additionally, he gets to “marry” all of them and bind them to him through that. As a final step, the sublimated made violence will come out as creativity and invention once his reign is done, basically in “the Scattering”.

    I think that’s most of it. Moneo is the one who actually states, “An all-male army always turns against its own population.” Also, “the all-male army has a strong tendency towards homosexual activities.”

    The paragraph:

    The homosexual, latent or otherwise, who maintains that condition for reason which could be called purely psychological, tends to indulge in pain-causing behavior – seeking it for himself and inflicting it on others.

  118. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    (1) This totally ignores the issue of sexual predation/rape by soldiers against their comrades, which anyone who has a passing knowledge of the military has heard of (in fact, statistically speaking, a female soldier is more likely to be attacked by a comrade than by an enemy, even if she is in a war zone).

    (2) Given that Leto is depicted as more-than-a-little sociopathic, and more-than-a-little insane, and the deliberate way in which the Fish Speakers (Nayla, natch) we meet are presented as fanatics who are, despite their discipline and efficiency, somewhat lacking in the brains department (and how later books have them utterly collapse as a power and be openly mocked), I can’t shake the notion that this idea is being presented in order to be poked at.

    (3) The non-or-less-rapeyness of women I’m going to accept. Likewise the argument about how less rape of civillians -> less angry civillians -> less and shorter revolts -> greater overall stability, at least in the broad strokes (I think this is an oversimplification, but is largely true).

    (4) I’m troubled by the “women are more mature then men because pregnancy” thing. Also, there’s some troubling gender essentialism.

    (5) Given that God Emperor also has Leto opining that the Fremen (a society where wives could be won in knife fights) were truly egalitarian and had equality of the sexes, this casts a further pall. Of course, Leto is a consummate liar and possibly a sociopath, so…

    *flail*

  119. StevoR says

    Dry but good solid informative analysis of the key facts and figures on Human Induced rapid Global Overheating here :

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4406350.html

    ‘Data crunching for Doha and beyond’ written by Dr Pep Canadell from the Global Carbon Project.

    Comments section there is being predictably plagued by Climate Change deniers too if anyone is interesting in helping out there.

  120. broboxley OT says

    apparently Moneo never was up close and personal with Berber, Apache and pre-salafist Afghan women.

  121. Richard Austin says

    Leto’s goal explicitly isn’t a stable society. He’s enforcing peace, not bringing it about naturally. That’s why all creativity or newness must be sublimated into other things. He’s deliberately clamped the boiler lid shut to make the whole pot explode. So, you’re right, the idea is there to be deliberately poked at.

    Also remember that the Reverend Mothers are a purely matriarchical society that also uses religion as a tool.

    That isn’t to say Leto’s likeable, or that Herbert’s ideas aren’t horribly -ist in a lot of ways. He’s very much an “ends justify the means” character, and he hates himself for doing what he’s doing, but he sees it as the Golden Path as the only solution to prevent humanity’s extinction.

  122. Ogvorbis says

    Yes. And the bit that follows about rape.

    When I reread this section just now, I was struck by the accuracy of the military rape description and medieval Europe. The soldiers — the successful soldiers, especially the cavalry — transformed from protecting the farmers from an external predator to being the predator themselves, consuming production and even the idea of droit de signeur seem to fit in with Herbert’s view of the military. They became the ruling class, the knights, the dukes, the earls, and became the primary predator for most of the population. Even in war, the search for, or denial of, provisions by either army did far more damage to the producing class than the battles and sieges ever did.

    Here in the modern US, the military (which is sexually integrated but the model is still that developed in an all-male army) is now consuming an inordinate amount of the US economy. And the US military is, to me, an adolescent male society complete with the practical jokes, the ‘bonding’ exercises, the joyful infliction of pain, small unit loyalty, the ideal of shared pain, shared sacrifice as a way to create internal loyalty.

    Your

    (1) The paragraph about the willing infliction of pain within practical joking, the loyalty only to one’s pack mates, feeds into this for the male soldiers (in Leto’s estimation). Those within the unit who are viewed as weak, as outsiders, as different, are subjected to ‘othering’ activities which enforces the small unit loyalty of those who are not ‘others’.

    (2) Herbert does this frequently. Well, not frequently, but there are elements of satire in many of his works. Perhaps Nayla is a Fish Speaker who has become too much of a male to be truly effective?

    (3) Definitely an oversimplification on Herbert’s part but, then, we don’t actually know yet as we have no example in history or extant of an all-female army, or even an army that is free of male adolescent ideals.

    (4) I agree with you. Herbert does flesh out the argument but that one struck me as odd the first time I read it (when I was in high school).

    (5) Women can be won as war prizes but they also retain property rights, the right to divorce, and an economic place within the sietch that gives (gave?) a woman within Fremen society far more freedom, far more rights, far more opportunity than women in the Houses Minor, the Great Houses, or those in trading families.

  123. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Yes, yes. Basically, the central issue with God Emperor is that we, the reader, are dependent on what Leto says to guide us to the facts.

    And Leto is a liar. He also has sociopathic tendencies. Yes, the Golden Path is there to ultimately free humanity from stagnation, but it also comes at a terrible cost.

    Your answer to (5) is true. But that is hardly egalitarian. I’d accept “more egalitarian than other societies at the time,” certainly, but Leto’s statement that they had gender equality is a bit much.

    In any case, God Emperor is the only book of the series I struggle with (the others are much more clear-cut), mostly because of how mind-boggling unreliable the narrator is and my struggles to unpack stuff like this.

    Because yeah, I can totally see the point being made about homosocial conditioning in all-male armies and the inherent dangers of all-male armies. But I can’t get over a sense of ick. Maybe it is my own social conditioning.

  124. ImaginesABeach says

    Commas can save lives

    So can periods. At Thanksgiving, my mom had a card on the table that said “Love people. Cook them good food.” I read it with a period after “them”.

  125. Richard Austin says

    I hope it doesn’t need to be pointed out that Frank Herbert was pretty homophobic. He considered homosexuality at best an adolescent experimentation, both for men and women, and something that would be grown out of. The only actively gay character in the books was the Baron Harkonnen, who was also a sadist and a pedophile as well as a dispicable person all around. The one time Duncan catches fish speakers kissing, he flips out and Moneo blows it off as “youth”.

    Frank also practically disowned his own son for being gay.

    So, that’s all useful to remember when he’s discussing homosexuality.

  126. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Well, yes, Richard. The homophobia that runs through the books (all of them, I think) is pretty glaring.

    The most icky section is in Children of Dune where Alia/Baron have random sex with some random d00d, and it is implied that the Baron half really liked it.

  127. Ogvorbis says

    In any case, God Emperor is the only book of the series I struggle with (the others are much more clear-cut), mostly because of how mind-boggling unreliable the narrator is and my struggles to unpack stuff like this.

    The first couple of times I read it (I read the Dune series about once every three years (same for Harry Potter and (it looks like) Discworld)) the book confused the hell out of me. I realized, at some point, that the reason the book confused me is that Leto has mutually exclusive goals. He seeks to preserve his power (As Richard Austin pointed out, he enforces, through brute power, a period of minimalism in order to create the renaissance following his death) and, at the same time, create the necessary conditions so that his death will create the new future in order to save humanity. Leto must both foment revolution and create the stillness to ferment the future.

    It is still a weird book.

  128. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    One of the things I like about Herbert is that he actually tackles the issue of religion. Many authors have a tendency to either say “the religious patterns will be more-or-less identical to now” or “everyone is an atheist.” Herbert said, not necessarily. And while I think some of his ideas on the topic are a bit … odd … they have the benefit of being at least somewhat coherent. Though sometimes I laugh about the very concept of “Zen-sunni + worship of the horned Great Mother.”

  129. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Leto has mutually exclusive goals.

    Yeah, that.

    In Dune Paul has a vision, and he’s simultaneously horrified and attracted to it. He thinks – wrongly – that he can create a godhead and then control it. But on a fundamental level, Paul is angry and driven by revenge, and he’s also more than a little scared of himself, the visions, and what it is he’s made. In Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, Paul’s completely fallen out of love with his vision and is now horrified by it because he sees the conclusion of it. He’s also broken by Chani’s death, which (of course) he sees coming and is helpless to prevent.

    I do think it is interesting that Paul sees the Golden Path and he rejects it. Because it horrifies him and, even though he knows the consequences, both good and bad, he cannot accept the bad in order to achieve the good.

    Initially, Leto is determined to avoid it as well. It takes Jessica and the Bene Gesserit to shove him down that path. And, ultimately, it is only because Leto is not (nor was he ever, really) human that he is capable of going that route.

  130. Ogvorbis says

    Esteleth:

    My senior term paper in high school was a study of the historical parallels between the people and religions of Dune and the people and religions of our real history. Paul as both Christ and Muhammad, for instance. I managed a 65-page paper with over 100 sources. My English teacher declared that Dune (along with anything by, or about, Faulkner) were on her ‘never again’ list. And the next year, she started limiting the papers to no more than 40 pages (double-spaced, typed, with footnotes). It was a fun paper to research and write but, damn, was my understanding superficial.

    Richard Austin:

    I’m not all that familiar with Herbert’s life but his active homophobia helps explain a few things. Thanks.

  131. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Oggie, by any chance to you still have a copy of that paper? I’d love to read it.

    In trade, I offer a paper I wrote as an undergraduate on day/night imagery in five generations of women in Tolkien’s mythology.

  132. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Dalillama, broboxley, AJ Milne, Portia:
    Thank you for the kind words.
    ****
    Dalillama, it’s on the 16th of this month.
    Email- I’m on yahoo.
    tanthonyv@

  133. Richard Austin says

    There were a few ideas I first encountered in the Dune series that I liked. One of them was the notion that “he who can destroy a thing controls the thing,” which sounds self-evident to me now but wasn’t necessarily then. I re-read the series – the 6 prequels and then Frank’s novels – once every year or two. There are definitely things to watch out for, and I would by no means claim it to be the best sci-fi series ever, but – like Card and Asimov – there are elements that are worth revisiting (Card’s “Speaker for the Dead” concept is pretty nifty in my estimation, even if it doesn’t make up for the horrors of his books).

  134. broboxley OT says

    In trade, I offer a paper I wrote as an undergraduate on day/night imagery in five generations of women in Tolkien’s mythology.

    /me want! all I have to trade is some pictish tales I would have to whip out at short notice :-(

  135. Ogvorbis says

    Oggie, by any chance to you still have a copy of that paper? I’d love to read it.

    Nope. Long gone. It started my habit, continued in college, of coming up with at least one totally bizarre source. In my Dune paper, titled “Back to the Future: Frank Herbert’s Dune“, I managed to include a quote from, believe it or not, Bloom County.

  136. Ogvorbis says

    In trade, I offer a paper I wrote as an undergraduate on day/night imagery in five generations of women in Tolkien’s mythology.

    Girl did a paper in high school on the light/dark imagery of Tolkien her Junior year.

  137. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    (3) The non-or-less-rapeyness of women I’m going to accept.

    “Less.” Definitely “less.” >.>

  138. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Broboxley, if you really want it I can try to dig it up. But I am pretty sure that my only electronic copy is on the hard drive of a computer that I am not entirely sure will boot. But I have been meaning to clone that HD (for the sake of some other data). I’ll try tomorrow, okay?

    Oggie, you give me the sads. :(

  139. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Girl did a paper in high school on the light/dark imagery of Tolkien her Junior year.

    Tolkien does not use light/dark or day/night as subtext. He slaps it all over. He also would spend 5 pages on something that adds up to wow, look at that tree.

  140. Richard Austin says

    Tolkien does not use light/dark or day/night as subtext. He slaps it all over. He also would spend 5 pages on something that adds up to wow, look at that tree.

    The one I remember is him going on for pages about the rolling hills near the barrow-wights.

  141. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    Sometimes I worry about Boy. This just came out of his mouth: “I wonder if you can deep fry mayonnaise?

    The whole carnival and fair industry exists for the purpose of proving that you can deep fry anything.

    I hope it doesn’t need to be pointed out that Frank Herbert was pretty homophobic. He considered homosexuality at best an adolescent experimentation, both for men and women, and something that would be grown out of.

    I recall something, I think out of The Dosadi Experiment, where our Saboteur viewpoint-character (I cannot for the life of me remember his name) asks if the shock troops of last resort, within the resistance inside Dosadi, were homosexual…and shudders at the implicit, “Yes”.

    One of the things I like about Herbert is that he actually tackles the issue of religion.

    From another of his books, “Gods are made, not born!”

    Esteleth, your Tolkien paper sounds interesting. I have nothing to offer in exchange, though.
    :(
    -

  142. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Okay, okay. I shall dig out my portable hard drive, see if I can get the running-XP computer to boot, and then see if I can’t clone the HD and then see what I can find on it.

  143. says

    The author Volter Kilpi is famous and infamous for his novel Alastalon salissa, which is held as a landmark in Finnish literature.

    The Pfffft of all knowledge:

    In one famous scene, a character’s journey to the mantelpiece to fetch a pipe is told in over seventy pages.

    I haven’t read it. I tried, but got really, really bored maybe 50 pages into it.

  144. Therrin says

    Dalillama, just saw your post (last thread), I’ve got access to a minivan if you have need again. I think I’m across town from you, but I usually have time to help out with things. Email is notechasing with either yahoo or Google for next time.

    Fyi, I was the quiet one at Crip Dyke’s place.

  145. says

    Therrin
    Thank you for the offer, I’ll keep it in mind in future, although I hope that in future I’ll have a little more lead time. This was a totally last-minute thing, we didn’t find out until Saturday night, so Sunday was it as far as collecting the stuff.

  146. chigau (無) says

    I cannot catch-up tonight.
    But Tony should have an old-fashioned Molly.
    (not a comment-Molly)

  147. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    Oy, the drama. We’ve been hosting an extra teen, as he’d had some difficulty with his family. The difficulties he was causing in our family were getting to be overwhelming, and tonight it all went bloowiee.

    He’d made himself sick with his antics, and wanted to see a doctor. We got him to the emergency room, but had to get his own dad to come sign him in.

    To over-simplify a bit, I snuck home, packed his stuff, drove back up and dumped it into his dad’s truck, then scooted for home. My grateful family had bought me some pistachios, and I’m washing out his bedding and listening to the rain.

    The window is open, there’s thunder out there, and it is December. That’s not unprecedented, but it is unusual.

  148. Beatrice says

    Tony,

    You heard this from everyone else already, but I’ll repeat it anyway: you are an amazing person. You gave Jim support and understanding, without giving harmful religious belief a pass. You were great.

    I’m glad the conversation also helped you.

    Thanks for sharing this with us.

  149. rq says

    Good morning!
    Thumbs up, hugs, good thoughts, chocolate cakes for Tony!
    You are one amazing person.
    Thank you for sharing.
    *more hugs*

    +++

    Sunshine today. In more than a week. Yay!

  150. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    rq:
    The hugs and kind words are quite appreciated.

  151. birgerjohansson says

    Robert Zubrin critique of the new NASA plans: “Mars the Hard Way” http://www.spacenews.com/article/mars-the-hard-way

    In NASA, planning exists to justify past bad decisions.
    (a typo originally made it “planning exits” which is strangely appropriate for the lack of foresight)
    — — — — — — —
    I remember The Dosadi Experiment. The underlying premise for the need to set up this glass-box city state was not credible (I don’t recall the details). His “Whipping Star” had an even more ridiculous premise.

    BTW the otherwise excellent Jack Vance was* also homophobic, and often let the bad guys be homosexuals, or other non-standard sexual habits.
    — — — — — — —
    *He must be well into his eighties, but is still alive. I am currently reading an anthology of stories set in the “Dying Earth” setting, written by various authors as a tribute to Vance.
    — — — — — — —
    The “Speaker for the Dead” trilogy was pretty good. Apart from that, I do not like the Ender novels.
    — — — — — — —
    “but not the whole Corps”

    While not dissing USMC more than the rest,
    I am seriously worried that nations with a professional army/ armed force have a cadre of people sworn to obey orders, even when going into foreign lands for very shady reasons.
    Once they have shot up everything, and received horrible prychological or physical traumas in return, they will slowly realise it was all because some asswipe wanted to secure his re-election.
    — — — — — —
    Thunk, you can have our snow once you have solved the logistic difficulties.

  152. says

    Sorry the counselor sucked – if you have an appt. with someone else next, you can tell them exactly how much the first one sucked. If their triage people don’t even know what to do about depression, they’re training them wrong.

    but they’ve ALL been like that. every single counselor/therapist I’ve ever talked to has tried to get me to change the behaviors that were a consequence of me coping with it, rather than helping me figure out how to not be depressed

  153. carlie says

    Dam, I’m sorry, Jadehawk – it does sound like they just suck all around. Is anyone there allowed to prescribe antidepressants? I’ve heard sometimes that’s a good way to start, to get the person to the point where they can start doing other things.

  154. says

    it does sound like they just suck all around. Is anyone there allowed to prescribe antidepressants?

    that’s part of the health center appointment. but let’s just say that i’m skeptical as to whether psychmeds will work as advertised. but i’m willing to try, simply because i’m sick of these unmanageable episodes and the counselors are useless

  155. John Morales says

    Jadehawk, FWIW, chemicals do their thing whether you’re skeptical or not.

    (Worth a try)

  156. says

    I question the claim that you can meaningfully deep fry koolaid. People mix koolaid powder into hush puppy batter and deep fry that, but those are koolaid flavored hushpuppies, not deep fried koolaid.

    You is strange people.
    Hushpuppies are shoes…

    *need lunch*

  157. says

    Jadehawk:

    I remember now why I only ever sign up for counseling when I’m feeling the worst.

    I have no idea how it’s supposed to help me to be told that I need to learn to push through my anxieties, or to be told I need to develop more self-discipline, when I just finished explaining that I didn’t have the energy/willpower to both manage my depression and have self-discipline, and that the current level of “laziness” and disorganization is the balance I’ve worked out for myself between being self-disciplined and managing my depression.

    It sounds like your counsellor is using an unhelpful approach. I know it’s disappointing when you’re exhausted and you’ve turned to someone as a last resort and they just don’t understand. This may be a stupid question but have you told them that you feel their approach is unhelpful and you want to try a different strategy? They’re supposed to be using client centred therapy.

    especially i don’t know how I’m supposed to be helped by being told I should try to show up to lectures far more regularly, when I just finished explaining that I’d tried that previously and that it only lead to even earlier burnout, and that the sporadic attendance is a coping mechanism without which I can’t make it through a semester at all.

    Also, before they get you to try and change your behaviour they’re supposed to help you identify some of the negative thoughts and feelings that lead you to use those behaviours (like avoidance). Have they asked you about your thoughts and feelings in attending lectures and why it’s making you more stressed?

    Please keep trying. I’m seeing a counsellor too and I’m pretty happy with how it’s going. I’m sure it seems tough now but I believe you can survive the dark periods. I believe in you. Hell, if I can do it, I’m sure anybody can.

  158. says

    Tony,

    Easily comment of the month.

    QFT. I often get bored with long texts, even when the subject is about something I am interested in. I read your piece all the way through, a great post.

    Tolkien does not use light/dark or day/night as subtext. He slaps it all over. He also would spend 5 pages on something that adds up to wow, look at that tree.

    Indeed. I start to read LOTR on a regular basis (every winter or so) but seldom finish it. The Tom Bombadil section is normally the first hurdle, after the rescue from Mount Doom is normally the biggy, though.

    The Silmarilion is not a problem once I have got over the singing spirits at the start.

  159. says

    *comes home*
    *looks around*
    Where’s that damn houseelf?
    *looks in the mirror*
    Ah, right…

    Tony
    Wonderful comment.
    I’m sorry your pleasure encounter ended like this, but I’m even more sorry for Jim.
    I guess for him the “serial murder” comparison feels valid, I guess he really feels like a serial killer who must kill time after time after time. How awefull must it be to live in a world where your most inner self makes you feel like a horrible criminal just for doing consensual stuff with other adults.

  160. Beatrice says

    Back from a job interview. Not bad, but I doubt I’ll get it. There were more qualified people there, I applied just to try my luck.
    Another one tomorrow, now, for that one I would be a good candidate. I hope I handle the interview as well as today’s.

    There’s also another job I should get an answer about this week. I’d really really like that one. It’s in a place I used to dream about working at, not in the position I applied for, but what the hell. There would be science and books all around me.

  161. rq says

    Beatrice
    Good for you! That sounds like a good strategy, to apply for as many jobs as possible and to go to the interviews – even if they’re positions you don’t actually want, at least the practice will do you good!
    And I’ll cross some thumbs for the science-and-books job. ;) (Yes, I have a stack of random thumbs to cross for people… Don’t ask; I could just say it’s part of my job…)

  162. Beatrice says

    rq,

    I will remember not to ever cross you, so that my thumbs don’t join your stack.

    There aren’t many jobs these days, so I apply for everything that I have basic qualifications for. It’s not my fault if someone made a position suited for someone who studied agriculture open for economists and mathematicians. The interview tomorrow is at the same place, so I’m counting today as a rehearsal for the real thing.

  163. rq says

    Ooh and the latest evo-psych post reminded me of something I’ve been thinking about since the previous collection of evo-psych posts, specifically – the one that had the chart with the division of labour on it.
    The one line of that that had me thinking was the ‘Childcare’ one, with ‘easy’ under the heading ‘foraging’ and ‘hard’ under the heading ‘hunting’. And Rebecca Watson mentions that in her talk, too, about taking children shopping (because shopping = foraging, remember?). And then there’s the whole does-trapping-count-as-hunting-or-gathering aspect.
    Anyway. The point (and no, it’s not much of one).
    Childcare isn’t easy under any circumstances (in my opinion). It can be easier, but not easy (unless you have textbook-perfect-kids, a nanny, a cook, a personal chauffeur, a large house with a large backyard, and a heck of a lot of time just for your kids).
    And I wonder, how many of these evo-psych people (are they mostly guys?) have ever even tried to take care of children? How many of them have actually tried to take a child (let’s make it easy :P) foraging? Hunting? The modern equivalents? I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that most of them wouldn’t even think about trying such a thing, because it is too hard for them.
    Which brings out the irony, because they see childcare as something easy or easily done (yeah yeah I know by women who have evolved for it right), and yet they can’t really say that they have ever tried it, to see if it actually is easy, because, you know, children, that’s hard.
    So it’s hard for them, but it must be easy for women, because, you know, women – so, foraging with children would also be easy, because hey, how hard can it be to hold down a few kids while you dig up some roots?
    Personally, I think they’re afraid of children and cover that up by shoving them off on the women. But it just felt strange that it was so simple and straightforward for them to label childcare as ‘easy’. And I think that lack of thought, more than anything, is what has turned me off of the gendered evo-psych stuff completely.

    +++

    FtB
    … has changed my life. No, has ruined (and by ruined I mean has made obvious to me a lot of things that were subtly wrong with the way the world should work) my life and my capacity to enjoy movies. Used to be, a 90% male cast – nothing wrong with that! Women-to-be-rescued – super! Kickass-woman ends up in stereotypical relationship – great! No same-sex couples? Same-sex couples as something weird and quirky? Same-sex couples as evil? Yeah wonderful, I know they’re not like that… It’s just a movie anyway.
    But NOW.
    Oh boy do these things jump out at me. Like a lot. Watched two movies over the weekend, and I kept thinking, why couldn’t they have had at least one woman doing all of that? (The movies were, for the record, Equilibrium and Looper.) I actually found it annoying (as much as I love Christian Bale – but they really should give Sean Bean a role where he doesn’t die via injury to the head/neck area) that both movies, while supposedly set in the future, had mostly male casts, with women in fairly typical, passive fair-maiden or motherly roles. I’d started operating under some misguided idea that the creative writers in Hollywood were better than that. *sigh*
    Note on Equilibrium: what was rather telling was the fact that there were more women present (no speaking roles, though) in the resistance part of the population, while the fascist-type surface population was definitely dominated by men.

    +++

    Sorry that was all a bit long. But I wanted to get it out before the migraine actually arrives. :/ Currently taking preventative measures (coffee) but I don’t know if I’m too late.

  164. rq says

    Beatrice
    Dammit, I meant hold some thumbs for you… But really, it comes down to much the same thing (and yes, you may now picture me with a handful of thumbs). :)

  165. rq says

    Beatrie
    That’s where I store them, but when someone needs some of the long-distance super-natural superstitious good luck vibe, I take them into my hands and hold them. Soft and gentle-like. :P

  166. says

    rq
    hold thumbs /cross fingers?

    beatrice
    Good luck for your applications.
    As for the agricutural job: many years ago a friend of mine (acounting/economist) ended up in one of those by chance and it was kind of a very lucky move. His boss figured out that in order for him to run the financial part of the business he would need to understand the agricultural part as well and gave him the training. Makes him awesomly qualified for some jobs.

    rq, again

    Well, everything that women do has to be easy. That’s why you leave it to the poor fragile women, you know? And because women are on average weaker and smaller they get to do the easier jobs! Quod erat demonstrandum.
    It’s a bit like with teachers: At least here everybody complains about how lazy teachers are, what a good life they have, lots of holidays, reasonable pay, moochers in short. But if you ask them if they want to be one they tell you they’re not crazy, of course not!

    As for ruining everything: Sadly yes. Can’t watch any TV-show, especially not the kids’ without noticing that shit, like being able to count all female charaters using my feet…

  167. rq says

    Giliell
    Yeah, crossed my language wires there for a bit. :)

    And yeah, the part about kids’ shows really struck home last weekend, when I realized that most of the books we have and the things we watch have boys in lead roles. And since I’m the only girl in this household, the boys don’t get much exposure. What brought this to my attention? Ha. Eldest was afraid to go to a girl’s birthday party because it would be full of girls. And when we ask him about his friends from kindergarten, he never lists any girls, even though his teacher assures us that he’s one of the fewer boys who actually does play regularly with the girls.
    So I’ve asked my sister to send some strong-female-character books from Canada, and I’ll probably go out and buy Pippi Longstocking, but also I have to find more children’s movies with main girl characters. Most of the ones out there are pretty stereotypical, but better than nothing…

    Beatrice
    :) If I’m too rough with the thumbs, I might break them.

  168. Beatrice says

    Jadehawk,

    Heh. Now you just have to find out who predicted it here first so that we know who’s getting us the next round of grog.

  169. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Giliell, Cosmic Teapot:

    Thank you both for the kind words.

  170. jackiepaper says

    rq,
    My older daughter overheard my youngest son telling his little sister that she was losing a certain video game because, “Boys are better at fighting than girls.” So older sister walked over, borrowed little sister’s controller and whipped his butt. Then they had a talk about how maybe beating a younger kid at a game had nothing to do with gender. We don’t know where he got that. School? Movies? Made up on the spot to mess with his sibling? All I know is it creeped me out.

  171. rq says

    carlie
    Five and three, in round numbers, but rapidly getting older. :) The three-year-old does what his brother does and reads what he reads (or is read to him).
    You have suggestions? :)

  172. rq says

    jackiepaper
    It’s weird how they hold these ideas, even when we’ve done nothing specific to help them. :( I was surprised, too, but I’m pretty sure it’s a combination of kindergarten, TV and inadvertent boy-programming through the children’s books we have. Not that we have violent, fighting, machine-wielding characters only, but… I guess it’s enough that most of the main characters are boys. :/ Have to work on fixing that!

  173. broboxley OT says

    should the police bear some responsibility for that murder suicide in Kansas City?
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/chief_other_girl_uULWUcuM7p4tJb2PLeaITP

    After dinner and drinks Friday night at a local tavern, the former Long Island high-school star took the woman, Brittni Glass, to her home, but spent the next several hours asleep in his Bentley outside her building, neighbors said.

    After cops roused him from his drunken slumber at about 2:30 a.m., Belcher went inside Glass’ building and re-emerged about four hours later.

    in Georgia he would have been woken up, put into the back of a cruiser and charged with DUI. He wouldn’t have been out and about with a weapon. Since he had his keys with him, he is considered in control of a motor vehicle while impaired. You dont have to have the motor running around here.

  174. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq

    Sorry that was all a bit long. But I wanted to get it out before the migraine actually arrives. :/ Currently taking preventative measures (coffee) but I don’t know if I’m too late.

    I hope it works to head it off. : (

    Re: Kids’ media. I read that Tamora Pierce has some great female lead characters, so I went and got Wild Magic for SO’s oldest (she’s 12). Is anyone familiar? I’ll probably read it myself, because it sounds good. Even though I’m not normally into fantasy. Maybe the bug will bite me.

    Beatrice
    Good luck with the job. You are braver than I am. I have/had a defeatist attitude about jobs I probably wouldn’t get. (Which is why I’m self-employed, ha.)

    jackiepaper
    That’s sad that your boy said something like that but this:

    So older sister walked over, borrowed little sister’s controller and whipped his butt. Then they had a talk about how maybe beating a younger kid at a game had nothing to do with gender.

    is AWESOME. Both that she demonstrated how wrong he was and that she talked to him about it. Good show on her part.

    ===

    I haven’t been drinking much coffee (finally kicked the caffeine addiction) but I think I might need some this morning. Whew.

  175. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Today is the 4th of December.

    And it is 65 fucking degrees Fahrenheit.

    What the fuck is this shit?

  176. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    What the fuck is this shit?

    Awesome. This shit is awesome.

  177. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    This shit is awesome.

    Less awesome is the forecast for the next few days. Namely:
    Today: high of 65.
    Tomorrow: high of 35. 60% chance of snow.
    Thursday: high of 37. 20% chance of rain.
    Friday: high of 45. 30% chance of rain.

    YUCK

  178. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Yuck indeed. Here we have 60° today then 40s for the rest of the week, with clouds.

  179. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    On my way to work, the radio announcer read the weather report, stopping after each given temperature to say, “yes, that’s right, [number].” She sounded irritated.

  180. Rey Fox says

    Oh feh. Let winter be winter. I’m irritated that I couldn’t sleep with my comforter the last couple of nights.

  181. thunk, cold air advection says

    Portia, Esteleth:

    Today is the 4th of December.

    And it is 65 fucking degrees Fahrenheit.

    What the fuck is this shit?

    really, really unusual weather. That makes me gripe about how it’s way too hot.

  182. birgerjohansson says

    “Gases from grasses: Simulations on Ranger supercomputer help researchers understand biofuel reaction” http://phys.org/news/2012-12-gases-grasses-simulations-ranger-supercomputer.html

    Medical issues:
    “Rewarding people to live healthier lives is acceptable if it works, study reveals” http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-12-rewarding-people-healthier-reveals.html

    Study explains why some teenagers more prone to binge drinking http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-12-teenagers-prone-binge.html

    Study reveals autism treatment clues http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-12-reveals-autism-treatment-clues.html

    Researchers find fungus has cancer-fighting power through nanoparticles http://phys.org/news/2012-12-fungus-cancer-fighting-power.html

    Faster, safer method for producing stem cells http://phys.org/news/2012-12-faster-safer-method-stem-cells.html

  183. rq says

    I like my comforter. But yes, I haven’t had much reason to use it yet, this season.

    +++

    Portia
    We’ll see how awesomely you like the warm weather when the fire-ants move north. ;)

    Thanks for the good wishes re: migraine. It’s at some weird half-way point right now that’s annoying but not debilitating. :/ Hopefully the children will co-operate and I can get more than 1.5 hrs sleep at a time tonight (teething issues with youngest :/).

    Good for you for kicking caffeine in the ass. My sister did it, too, finally.
    I’ve never been a big coffee drinker, but I definitely like it now and then. And if I catch it early enough, it can get rid of my migraines (weird… that, or really dark chocolate). I’m more of a black-tea person myself.

  184. says

    I swear, some days the biggest challenge of raising kids is not to kill them. Not only did it take me well over 60 min to collect them from kindergarten, also they have been crying and shouting and trying to kill each other for shits and giggles ever since.

    jackiepaper
    I blame kindergarten. Until #1 went there she liked all colours and many things, but since then it’s “girl’s colours” and “girls games” and “pretty”. Pretty, pretty, pretty.

  185. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Eek! Ants! But you know me, I have lots of insect repellant :)

    That middle ground before the headache really hits you is like an uncomfortable purgatory. I’m always trying to do things that help and walking on eggshells when I’m feeling like that. Hope it retreats. Poor little thing with the sore mouth, hope they get some peace so you can too. Lack of sleep is my biggest migraine trigger, I think.

    Funny you should mention black tea, because that’s exactly how I (unintentially) kicked the caffeine. I had a cold and so didn’t want to irritate my throat with cream and coffee a few months back. Switched to homebrewed chai tea, then just a few days ago realized I didn’t get a headache at all when I skipped my morning tea. Not to say I don’t still love coffee, though. I worked in several different coffeehouses in college. (Leading to a proposed autobiography title: Barista to Barrister :))

    Come to think of it, SO brought me a chai just a few minutes ago. Mmmm.

  186. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Giliell,

    More power to you. I couldn’t handle it. SO’s oldest’s favorite pasttime is dragging her feet, and it drives me bonkers.

  187. rq says

    Giliell
    Definitely with you there. :/

    Portia
    I like the title. I hope the rest of it is just as good. Because no other lawyer has worked the coffeeshop circuit prior to making it big in law. ;) :D
    Black tea might have helped because it has caffeine in it (just not as much), so instead of dropping it cold, you’ve weaned yourself off. :) Excellent work, Iago!

  188. says

    Congress Promotes Dangerous Anti-vaccine Quackery — Phil Plait of Bad Astronomy was picked up by Slate when he wrote an article updating news from the antivax wars, including the disastrous attitudes coming from mostly Republican forces in the US Congress.

    I doubt that Phil’s opening plea will be heeded:

    This is not my first vaccine rodeo, and I expect some interesting remarks in the comments section. As always, I have copiously linked key phrases in this article to more information backing up my claims. Please read them before commenting.

    … The Committee on Oversight and Government Reform held a hearing trying to look into the cause and prevention of autism. Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) launched into a several-minute diatribe [see video at the link] that starts off in an Orwellian statement: He claims he’s not antivax. Then he launches into a five-minute speech that promotes long-debunked and clearly incorrect antivax claims, targeting mercury for the most part. Burton has long been an advocate for quackery; for at least a decade he has used Congressional situations like this to promote antiscience.

    In the latest hearing, Burton sounds like a crackpot conspiracy theorist, to be honest, saying he knows—better than thousands of scientists who have spent their careers investigating these topics—that thimerosal causes neurological disorders (including autism). He goes on for some time about mercury (as does Rep. Dennis Kucinitch (D-Ohio) starting at 21:44 in the video), making it clear he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. For example, very few vaccines still use mercury, and the ones that do use it in tiny amounts and in a form that does not accumulate in the body….

    This is what we get when we elect willfully ignorant people. These ill-informed idiots should be outed — and then they should be booted.

  189. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Right, those nicotine gums are right on with their step-down approach to weaning :)

    I’m not going to be the one to write the book, the title was a friend’s suggestion. I’ll need a ghostwriter, ha. (Though come to think of it, a friend did ask me to co-author a book a while back…I should follow up on that).

    …no one has likened me to Iago in quite some time!

    ===
    Yesterday, I listened to another attorney (that one I have to work with) call a 13 year old a slut over and over for alleged sexual activity. I finally snapped, and he said “Oh, do you not like that word? Cindy doesn’t like another particular word, so I avoid that one. I’ll stop saying slut, too.” Couldn’t really explain that it’s not the word, it’s the whole fucking attitude. I did manage to put together a syllogism pointing out that he was essentially calling a rape victim a slut, because any sexual activity a 13 year old engages in is not legally consented to. He didn’t have much to say to that.

  190. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    YAY!!!!!!!!

    Portia
    You mean, you resemble Iago…?
    And good for you for standing up to the slut-shaming. Sounds like you work in a tough job!

    Giliell
    I’m going to attempt tomorrow. Don’t have the energy tonight. :/

  191. broboxley OT says

    Giliell

    I swear, some days the biggest challenge of raising kids is not to kill them. Not only did it take me well over 60 min to collect them from kindergarten, also they have been crying and shouting and trying to kill each other for shits and giggles ever since.

    wait until you come home from work and the 21yo and 18yo are doing exactly that :-(

    crying and shouting and trying to kill each other for shits and giggles

  192. says

    While we’re giving anti-science congresscritters the boot, let’s get rid of stupid judges as well. A Nevada judge twisted his regressive attitudes into monster knots in order to uphold a ban on gay marriage:

    To rule last week that it was constitutional for Nevada to bar gay couples from getting married, U.S. District Judge Robert Jones had to determine that there was a “reasonably conceivable state of facts that could provide a rational basis” for the state to reserve marriage to straight couples. Here’s what he came up with: Marriage is important to maintaining a stable society, and if it is expanded to include gays, “it is conceivable that a meaningful percentage of heterosexual persons would cease to value” marriage because “they no longer wish to be associated with the civil institution as redefined.”

    Nice photo of gay cowboys dancing accompanies the article.

    As as being so disgusted by gay marriage that one abandons the idea of marriage entirely, I think this attitude should be extended to sex. If gay people are having sex, then that is certainly something I’m never going to do again. /sarcasm

  193. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    So people keep mentioning Vacula in the context of the evopsych thread. Am I to take that as “Vacula shows up”?

  194. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq,
    I’m not as diabolical as I used to be, but…

    and thanks for the moral support :)

    ===

    Lynna,

    If gay people are going to eat liver and onions, I’ll just have to never eat them. As a self-respecting hetero and all.

  195. says

    If gay people are going to eat liver and onions, I’ll just have to never eat them. As a self-respecting hetero and all.

    If most of the gay men I know exhibit really fine grooming habits, I am never going to shower again. Combing my hair is out too.

    Come to think of it, those decisions should take care of any marrying-like-those-damned-gays issues. No grooming, no marrying, no fucking. I’m not doing anything that might make me look gay.

  196. Pteryxx says

    I’m not doing anything that might make me look gay.

    Guess that means serving in the military, playing pro ice hockey, and weightlifting are right out.

  197. carlie says

    Yay Joe!!!

    rq –
    For tv, Legend of Korra/Avatar the last Airbender, the cartoons. Very strong female characters. The storylines might be a little too old for them right now, but they can see girls kicking butt. Also, actually, Arthur the cartoon on PBS. There are strong girl characters in there and it’s a slightly younger group. Backyardigans is even younger and also has strong girls.Charlie and Lola is ok; very cute, Lola is a little sister, has a big part.

    Movies – Spirited away, um… hm. I’ll have to think about that.

    Books – Frannie K. Stein, mad scientist. Think Captain Underpants, but with a girl and science and funny. Paper Bag Princess, also the Free to be You and Me storybook.

    Music – The Princess Who Saved Herself by Jonathan Coulton. There are several cute videos of it; this is one Coulton retweeted a few weeks ago.

  198. says

    I’m not exactly looking for deep sympathy here or nothin’, as it’s pretty First World Problem, at least in terms of its immediate impact on me, and there’s probably lots of people sleeping on the streets who are (relatively) relieved that it’s not -20 or something (as against the people in low lying coastal regions soon to be under water if this kind of thing keeps up), but seriously, yeah, about this freakin’ weird weather…

    I’m just going to sit here on the step in my snowboarding boots and pout and hold my breath until I turn blue or it snows. That’s what I’m going to do.

    (Pause…)

    ‘Kay. So I did turn blue first. Holding it again then…

    (/And, I suppose, on the bright side, if this keeps up, I’ll be able to plant some vineyards and a open proper winery up here, any season now. And sure, presumably the windsurfing on the coming inland sea will be awesome, so long as I stay around the edges of the passing hurricanes…)

  199. says

    Guess that means serving in the military, playing pro ice hockey, and weightlifting are right out.

    Yep. So many avenues are now closed to me. Including preaching an anti-gay message to a mega-church audience. Hiring luggage-lifters is out.

    I also can’t write a book about being cured of the gay, followed by a book-signing tour of Uganda.

  200. Pteryxx says

    Oh wait – Things Gays Do includes … serving in state legislatures and in Congress! Hey wingnuts, here’s a thought…

  201. opposablethumbs says

    Guess that means serving in the military, playing pro ice hockey, and weightlifting are right out.

    … and having friends or lovers or family, or breathing …

    hey, come to think of it, if we could persuade homophobes that breathing is right out because it’s something that gay people do … eh? ::iz insanely hopeful::

  202. Emrysmyrddin says

    Just popping in to drop this link. After the regressive vote on women bishops a few weeks ago, is anyone really surprised at this public direction from ‘lay’ groups?

  203. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    As I type this, I am standing outside in 75 degree weather and I love it. It is normally in the 40s even in NW FL. I despise cold weather more than peas.

  204. rq says

    Portia
    I have added some thumbs to your portion, for extra luck and support. :)

    AJ Milne
    Oh you. You have to put away those boots before the snows come. Preferably at the very back of the garage/attic/storage space, and put everything else in front of it. Then sigh hopelessly, shrug your shoulders in that the-snow-will-never-come way, and voila!
    Instant blizzard!

    carlie
    THANK YOU for the suggestions. I’d found some books with which to inoculate them, and a few of those I’ll have to file away for future reference, but I feel less ignorant now. :) More capable of passively providing some good examples. Thanks!

  205. rq says

    opposablethumbs
    I’m sitting here and wondering, Is there anything that gays don’t do?
    It’s amazing how versatile they are! /snark

    Tony
    You and my best friend (and all those other folks who can’t take the cold). Could never convince her that winter is a good thing. I find it much easier to warm up than find a way to cool down (but then, physically, I handle heat poorly, so that’s probably part of it).

  206. broboxley OT says

    wondered about all the fooferaw on the evopsych read some of vacula’s stuff. Not for nuffin but from his self identifation, single male, lives on campus, hmm could make me some evopsych out of that.

  207. rq says

    broboxley
    Write it up and get it published in Nature and he might think about changing his ways. :P (Or just have evolutionary justification for why he is the way he is.)

  208. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    You and my best friend (and all those other folks who can’t take the cold). Could never convince her that winter is a good thing. I find it much easier to warm up than find a way to cool down (but then, physically, I handle heat poorly, so that’s probably part of it).

    Can’t we just put the damn poikilotherms in terrariums with heat lamps instead of setting the thermostat for the whole building to “Bessemer process?”

  209. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    In theory cold seems like the better proposition; after all, it’s easier to pile more clothing on to get warm, than it is to peel down past the skin to get cool. In practice, though, the colds seem colder to me than the hots seem hotter. I cannot find it in me to be upset that we are snow-free and in the mid-50s in December. But then, this is the time of year when I generally choose my seating with an eye to the availability of basking surfaces, and begin to wait miserably for the Spring Thaw, when feeling returns to my fingers and toes.
    -

  210. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    And once again, cicely for the win.

    She is totes correct @ 270.

  211. rq says

    Azkyroth
    If it were up to me, YES.
    Because the apartment heating bill would be a lot less, too.
    Poikilotherms.
    I’d forgotten the term; remind me to use it more often as an insult.

    cicely
    You have obviously never worn enough layers of wool to fully enjoy the cold.

  212. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Giliell:
    Your comment @206 reminded me of one thing I didn’t elaborate on sufficiently. Jim made a comparison between us deriving pleasure from having sex and a serial killer deriving pleasure from killing people. That just goes to show how twisted morality can be twisted by religious beliefs. He was having a hard time understanding that sexual activities between consenting adults is not *wrong*. In his eyes, the very act of having sinful gay sex and enjoying it makes one no different than a serial killer.

  213. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    I hear the gays like to celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving, Halloween, July Fourth, Memorial Day weekend, Easter, New Years…
    I guess those homophobes can celebrate holidays either.

    What does that leave them?

  214. Beatrice says

    From the looks of it, if it keeps snowing the whole night there will be some serious snow on the ground tomorrow.

  215. rq says

    Tony
    That’s a horrible comparison!!!
    But I have to confess, I haven’t witnessed this kind of religious conditioning in real life, either. Must have been a shock to you! Wow. It sounds so hard to believe (and yet I know it’s true).

    Also, the gays have now taken away everything meaningful to me! What am I to do?? Next thing I know, they’ll be after my husband!

  216. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Given the recent chatter about evolutionary psychology, I am mildly interested in understanding it more. However, it seems *waaaaay* above my head. Is there a cite or book that can give the layman an understanding of EP? Is the Wikipedia entry sufficient?

  217. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    “Is there a cite website or book…”

    Sheesh.

  218. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    rq
    I do not believe that enough layers of wool exist for me to enjoy the cold, particularly in the fingers and toes area. (Oh, yes; also, nose.) The best I can hope for is to tolerate the cold.

    And enough layers to make the cold tolerable seriously interfere with movement (again, particularly the fingers and toes) and balance. You’ve possibly seen/heard the jokes about the kid whose mother bundles hir up so much as to be an immobile, undifferentiated lump? Like that. With no enjoyment possible at all.
    -

  219. Beatrice says

    (first world problem)

    I like having long fingernails. That doesn’t go well with gloves. Especially mum’s old leather ones which I really don’t want to ruin.

    (first world problem)

  220. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Dealing with two racists on Ashley Miller’s blog reminds yet again how much I hate threaded comments.

  221. says

    I’m in the ‘can’t ever really get comfortable in the heat’ category, too. Sometimes the ‘just feel like sludgy, dazed crap in the heat’ category, even. It seems to have eased a bit, in recent years, tho’ I’m not sure it’s much. Might have something to do with slightly better cardio fitness, of late. Or maybe I just acclimate really, really slowly.

    And re rq‘s bury the boots thing, thanks. I may try that. Also, I guess I could probably put summer tires back on a car, drive it somewhere remote and potentially dangerous… That always brings snow, too, right?

    … Yes, I know, putting winter tires on in the first place was probably a mistake. Quite possibly, this whole damned thing is my fault. What was I thinking?

  222. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Jesus tapdancing Christ, I thought the racist herpaderp on Ashley’s thread was going to be bad, until i actually read it.

    How is it, that I, raised in a small super-racist town in the rural Midwest, am shocked by how blatant that was? You’d think nothing would surprise me any more.

  223. says

    rq(and others who may be looking.)

    So I’ve asked my sister to send some strong-female-character books from Canada, and I’ll probably go out and buy Pippi Longstocking, but also I have to find more children’s movies with main girl characters.

    I can only be of limited help on the movie front, but for books, husband recommends A Sky So Close. Also Two Moons in August, and the works of Martha Brooks generally, and also Gloria Whelan, particularly Homeless Bird. I’d add Pratchett’s Tiffany Aching books, satrtinf with The Wee Free Men. His Equal Rites also features a young female protagonist, as does Monstrous Regiment. The eponymous hero of Wen Spencer’s Tinker
    is also a young woman.
    For movies, L recommends Lilo and Stitch, and Pepper Ann (TV series).

  224. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Whoa! Are we talking about the same thread at Ashley’s where she discusses her father disowning her?
    Oh hells no.

    ::cracks knuckles::

    On my way.

  225. ImaginesABeach says

    I HATE being cold. I grew up in St. Paul, Minnesota. All the way through high school, I swore I would go south for college. I ended up going about 50 miles south to a college on a hill surrounded by sod farms (to maximize the wind chill). All the way though college, I swore I would go somewhere warm for law school. I even researched it and found that the University of Hawaii at Manoa had an excellent nautical law program. I figured I could be interested in nautical law. I ended up at the University of Minnesota Law School. And I swore that when I graduated, I would move somewhere warm. I now live about 5 miles from where I grew up. Apparently my issues with change are stronger than my hatred of cold.

  226. rq says

    Go, Tony, go!! (And all others trying to bring sense on that and other threads bringing out the terrible in people.)
    *brings out cheerleading pom-poms*
    Today I am not brave enough even to read any racism and/or evo-psych supporters, but I will educate myself tomorrow. In the meantime, I shall dance the Courage-and-Support Dance for all of you. And I’ll hold a lot of thumbs. In the palms of my hands.
    And I am obviously running on little sleep, for talking like that.

    Thank you, Dalillama, for the book suggestions – a lot of them seem a bit advanced for our current age, but I’ll file them away for future reference (or just buy them now and have them sitting around!).

    +++

    Good night, all!

  227. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    ImaginesABeach, you just described the last ten years of my life.

    Tony, I’m enjoying the fact that this white supremacist asshole uses “factoid” to describe his racist assertions.

    A factoid is a questionable or spurious (unverified, false, or fabricated) statement presented as a fact, but with no veracity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoid

    *pedant snicker*

  228. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Night, rq! Hope you get a good solid rest tonight.

  229. birgerjohansson says

    Winter (used to) kill off ticks and other parasites. Also, useful if you live in Russia and Wehrmacht is coming.

    — — — — — — —
    I suspect the powers that be at FTB is stalling the arrival of blogger Near-Earth Object to allow Bruce Willis to sneak in.

    — — — — — — —
    Gender debate sparks UK-Sweden media spat http://www.thelocal.se/44824/20121203/
    Brit tabloids prove we have DNA in common with some sludgy life forms.
    — — — — — — —
    A new promising approach in the therapy of pain http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-12-approach-therapy-pain.html
    — — — — — — —
    Anger may play larger role in anxiety disorders, study shows http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-12-anger-larger-role-anxiety-disorders.html
    I know laypersons should not read about symptoms, but there areso many things here that fit me that it cannot be just hypocondria
    — — — — — — —
    Fish oil helps heal bed sores of the critically ill http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-12-fish-oil-bed-sores-critically.html

  230. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    While I’m sure it is relevant somehow, I’m rather baffled that the largest and most prominent picture on the “Vervet” Pffft! page is a close-up of testicles and penis. And the caption helpfully informs me that the balls are a lovely shade of blue.

  231. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Gilliel, you forgot to thank the Americans, for domesticating the tomato, and for figuring out that it is tasty.

  232. says

    Winter (used to) kill off ticks and other parasites. Also, useful if you live in Russia and Wehrmacht is coming.

    Or, in Finland, and the Red Army is coming. :) It worked both ways for the mighty Soviet war machine.

    At the moment, however, I don’t like this -20ish °C (or worse) weather at all. Expected to get warmer towards the end of the week.

  233. carlie says

    I hate being too hot. When I am at melting temperature, I can’t do anything but lie around and gasp like a beached carp.

    But in the cold, I get into a half-frozen hibernation like state in which I can’t even bear to move.

    So I guess I’m pretty lazy either way. :)

    (but yes cold is worse)

    More than cold, what I hate about winter is darkness. Miserable, awful darkness.

  234. says

    birgerjohansson

    While not dissing USMC more than the rest,
    I am seriously worried that nations with a professional army/ armed force have a cadre of people sworn to obey orders, even when going into foreign lands for very shady reasons.
    Once they have shot up everything, and received horrible prychological or physical traumas in return, they will slowly realise it was all because some asswipe wanted to secure his re-election.

    General Smedley Butler, one of the most decorated Marines in history (Behind Chesty Puller, apparently), definitely caught on eventually: (Warning, mild wall of text.)

    I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country’s most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

    I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

    I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

    During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

    There’s more like it in his book War is a Racket

  235. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Shrimp are on the high cholesterol list. The Redhead is having a blood lipid test at the end of the month, and is wigging out over it, so I’ve been online finding out the naughty/nice lists.

  236. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    I thought a factoid was a fact that hadn’t entered the atmosphere yet. O.o

  237. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    I have eaten about 9 cream cheese cookies today and I don’t regret a thing.

    Also, I have been freezing all damn day. I hate being cold. There are times where I just can’t bundle enough. My nose always gets really cold. I love being hot, because it means I’m not cold. Cold is terrible, awful, and uncomfortable. And I was born and raised in Michigan of all places. People tell me I should be used to the Midwestern winters, but I tell them it just means I know how to bundle, not that I enjoy the cold. *shiver*

  238. birgerjohansson says

    I gratefully thank those who invented indoor plumbing.
    Imagine going to the outhouse in temperatures of -20 C and discovering a bear has chosen to hibernate there*.

    *As Magrat, the third of the Lancre witches did once. Pratchett has a weird imagination.
    — — — — — —
    Weird film titles; Cockneys and Zombies. Some Dude Killing People. The Killer Condom (the last one -a German detective spoof set in New York- has the best reviews).
    — — — — — —
    The moon is up, the temperature is down. And the copies of Science arrive two weeks after the publishing date. Me is grumpy.

  239. thunk, cold air advection says

    Portia:

    Speaking of tea, it was surprisingly powerful in influencing world events. Brits wanted tea. China had it, and they set the rules. Which led to the British selling opium, and an eventual war which saw the East crumble.

  240. thunk, cold air advection says

    I don’t mind the cold. I’m so used to my extremities being this way; it’s become commonplace. I just can’t sleep in Hot. I hate Hot. It’s miserable.

    But then again, I come from St. Petersburg. What do you expect?

  241. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    I feel dirty dealing with those racist fuckwits at Ashley’s blog.

    And I really hate nested comments.
    Trying to find the racist assholes and their comments was a little difficult.

  242. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    thunk:
    sleeping in heat is miserable, I agree.
    In the wake of Hurricane Ivan (back in ’04), we went without power for 11 days. This was in September. In NW Florida. It was miserable. Thankfully we still had water, so we were able to take cold showers before bed. We didn’t have the foresight to purchase the necessary items before the storm, so when the sun went down, we were sitting in near darkness. I remember going to bed as early as 9. Back then my bar job had me at work until midnight, so I was going to sleep around 3 or 4. Heck, even though I’m done at my current job no later than 10 (most nights), I still remain awake until 2 or 3.
    In fact, I’ve noticed that about the time I’m going to sleep, rq has begun posting here :)

  243. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    But then again, I come from St. Petersburg. What do you expect?

    Resignation, cynical humor, and possibly a fur hat? 0:)

  244. carlie says

    *crawls in*
    One more day of classes. One. More. Day.

    Speaking of tea, it was surprisingly powerful in influencing world events.

    History of the World in Six Glasses.Great book.

    Can I do a computer question – I have a new laptop, and it’s doing these weird cursor things (Windows 7, which I did have on my old machine as well). Sometimes when I’m typing it will jump to the middle of a word somewhere else, which I think might be a leaning on the freaking stupid gigantic track pad problem, but it also does this weird thing even with a keyboard attached where the little line that shows the cursor doesn’t move when you use the mouse and move it, so then you don’t know where the cursor really is. Like right now the cursor line is at the end of my words, but if I use the mouse to go up to the last paragraph to change something, the line doesn’t move with it even though if I start typing it shows up there. Very annoying.

  245. thunk, cold air advection says

    Azkyroth:

    Resignation, cynical humor, and possibly a fur hat? 0:)

    Only the first two. Fur hats are too expensive to lose as often as I do.

    Cicely:

    History of the World in Six Glasses.Great book.

    Haven’t heard of that one, but I know another history course uses a lot of “The Sweetness of Power”. Sugar’s the same deal, especially when it goes into the tea.

  246. Ogvorbis says

    I thought a factoid was a fact that hadn’t entered the atmosphere yet.

    And when it enters the atmosphere and starts to have an effect, it would be a factite? And when it actually hits, then it is finally a fact? Works for me. And I can think of a few people for whom a high speed fact upside the head would be a good thing. Many people suffer severe cases of factile dysfunction. Wife says they are taking liagra.

    =====

    Wife bought some Seagram’s wine coolers to celebrate. And when we got home she discovered that they are flavoured beer. Yes, folks, strawberry beer. (I had a Harpoon Winter Ale).

    =====

    For the past three years, I have been dealing with about $60k of unsecured debt. I was stupid enough to pay for medical bills with unsecured loans, credit cards, etc. Wife and I went through a company that does the debt negotiation bit. A little over three years of $1200 a month going into a bank account (minus fees). And we paid our last payment last week and are actually free of debt (well, except for mortgage, student loans for Kids, and car payment). It was scary as hell but if we hadn’t done it, we would still owe about $58k. After three years of payments.

  247. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Ogvorbis:

    Congrats on getting out from under that. SO does bankruptcy law and sees lots of good people in tough situations because of predatory lending or unexpected difficulties like medical bills. I’m glad that a debt negotiation company worked out for you, so many of them are scams in sheep’s clothing.

    Cheers! I’ll raise a glass for you and Mrs. Oggie.

  248. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    *consumer bankruptcy, that is, he represents debtors, not creditors.

  249. Ogvorbis says

    I’m glad that a debt negotiation company worked out for you, so many of them are scams in sheep’s clothing.

    First thing we did was check out BBB. This company had (I think) four complaints in the past 2 years and all had been settled to the satisfaction of the client. Of the ones we looked at, one had no BBB complaints at all (which I thought very suspicious) and another had about 100. We still have one debt out there but the amount in our account should cover the negotiated settlement. Scary but it worked.

  250. Ogvorbis says

    SO does bankruptcy law

    Is that how the SO can afford a Portia?

    Sorry. I could not resist. Especially after the conversation a few weeks ago. I should have resisted but I’m not a resistor, I’m a conductor.

  251. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    That got a legit LOL, Og. (Sadly, neither of us are stereotypical rich lawyers. Though he has more disposable income now that he has told the ex he doesn’t want to give money to pay the Catholic church to indoctrinate his children anymore).

  252. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Side gloat: I called my insurance agent today. He’s an independent agent, who sells coverage from a dozen different companies. I complained about my rates going up. Thirty minutes later, I had identical coverage for 40% of the cost. ^_^

    *confetti* and *champagne* for Mr. and Mrs. Oggie on getting debt-free!

  253. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Oggie @316:

    And when it enters the atmosphere and starts to have an effect, it would be a factite? And when it actually hits, then it is finally a fact? Works for me. And I can think of a few people for whom a high speed fact upside the head would be a good thing. Many people suffer severe cases of factile dysfunction. Wife says they are taking liagra.

    This was pure gold.
    You rock!
    And that’s a fact.

  254. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    -Ok, so I’m sure many of the Pharyngula regulars are familiar with the BP Oil Spill a few years ago. At the time of the spill, I worked at a seafood restaurant that’s literally on the gulf. It’s quite beautiful and is one of Pensacola’s tourist attractions. Once BP started having to compensate people for loss of money, I knew *so* many people that got pay outs. Some people were getting multiple checks varying anywhere from 3-30K. There didn’t seem to be a rhyme or reason to how people received money. At the time, I opted not to file a claim. I’ve recorded all my tips for the last 10 years or so (when I get off work, I mark it on my calendar, or enter the amount in my phone). That way I know how much money I’ve made on any given day of the year (it also allows me to have a good idea of which holidays are busier than others). I did not notice any significant difference in money following the oil spill versus the same time the prior year. My thinking was that despite the tremendous amount of money that BP was paying out that it wouldn’t be fair of me to file a claim and get money (I know several people who said they don’t think they were affected and just wanted free money) when there are people who actually *were* affected by the oil spill. I thought it would have been shitty of me to take money away from those who actually needed it.

    -Fast forward to a few days ago. A coworker mentioned that he was in the process of filing a claim (heck, I didn’t know BP was still paying people out). I told him all of the above, and his response made me completely rethink the situation. He framed it in terms of how many people would have come to this region had the oil spill not happened (this is likely a sizeable amount, as many hotels saw a tremendous decline in business for roughly a year following the spill). I may not have made less money than the year before, but how much *more* money would I have made had the oil spill not occurred? I still have no clue how one could figure out such a hypothetical amount. However, given my current financial status, I do plan to look into it. If I get back some funds, that would be stellar. If not, well I’m no worse off.

  255. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    The insurance guy also gave me cake. Good cake!

    And thanked me for calling, rather than just dropping the coverage and going to somewhere else. Says that as a small business owner, customer loyalty is how he stays in business. My heart got all soft.

  256. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Oggie, Esteleth:

    Congratulations to both of you!

  257. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Esteleth:
    What type of cake was it?

    ***

    Anyone familiar with this Tears in Rain book (the ads are all over FtB)?

  258. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    What type of cake was it?

    Chocolate fondant. With chunks of Oreos.

  259. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Portia @306:

    It sucks having no hair in the winter. My head gets reeeeeeeally cold. So do my ears and toes.

    Of course the heat of the summer is no kinder to my bald head either. Imagine going out to eat with someone who orders spicy food. I’ve had to have extra napkins/linens for my head. People get a kick out of it. It doesn’t bother me, but it is annoying to be enjoying my meal and have to wipe sweat off my face before it hits my eye.

  260. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    I say take whatever you can from those asshats, Tony. Good for you.

  261. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Huh, yeah I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to dab one’s scalp for perspiration. : ) On the other hand, you have no problem with hat hair in the cold!

    I’m looking into getting an electric heater to get myself through the winter. While I’m dreaming, I want an electric free-standing fireplace for my office.

  262. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    In an odd twist, the new insurance company wanted to run my driving history for the past 5 years. So they asked for my license number from before I moved to New York.

    I blanked.

    Who memorizes their license number, after all? I asked the agent if he had any suggestions. He asked if this was my first license. I said yes. He asked if I’d ever been on my parents’ insurance. I said yes. So he said to call them. Because my license number would have been listed on their policies as I was an insured driver.

    Cue a truly baffling conversation with my parents. Was exciting.

  263. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Here is your chance to be able to live with other Patriots™ when the economic collapse happens.

    If you are a patriotic American who believes in Jefferson’s Rightful Liberty, who believes in the Constitution as written, who believes in the Declaration of Independence, and who wishes to live in a beautiful, secure mountain town that bans Liberals from living among us, consider exploring the Citadel as we evolve and build. If you need to escape your suburban life and the vulnerabilities your family faces, consider the Citadel.

    …the Constitution as written…? Woo hoo! Can we keep slaves and allow only land owning white men a voice in civic affairs?

  264. Richard Austin says

    Who memorizes their license number, after all?

    *blink*
    … I thought most people did? Like their credit cards and social security number? Then again, I memorize monologues for fun, so I may not be an accurate judge of “typical”…

  265. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Let me rephrase, Richard:

    Who has the number for a license that expired 3 years ago memorized?

  266. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    Cicely:

    History of the World in Six Glasses.Great book.

    carlie, not cicely.
    I can always tell the difference!

    And we paid our last payment last week and are actually free of debt (well, except for mortgage, student loans for Kids, and car payment).

    Huzzah!

    And, Ogvorbis, the more I think about it, the more sure I am that I owe you an apology. I definitely over-reacted to the USMC thing. It’s a bit of a knee-jerky spot for me, so I was a bit jerky. (And I think everyone here is already familiar with my knees.)

    I’m sorry.
    -

  267. Richard Austin says

    Let me rephrase, Richard:

    Who has the number for a license that expired 3 years ago memorized?

    Still living in my birthstate, so I can’t say I do.

    I still remember all the license plate numbers for my parents’ cars when I was growing up, does that count? :)

  268. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    (Because otherwise I just received an email from my department about a summer internship related to atmospheric science…but it’s specifically for US citizens enrolled at a four year college D:)

  269. mildlymagnificent says

    Yaaaay! Our solar panels are now seriously paying off!

    Just got the quarterly “bill” with a credit balance on it. A credit balance!! So for a cash outlay of less than $3000 dollars we’re now expecting 2 entirely free quarters a year and it’ll depend on how cold winter is, how hot summer is, (and how good the new, extra insulation is) how much we’ll pay for the other two quarters.

    (Sorry to brag – Australia’s subsidy/bonus/feed in tariffs seem to be better than in USA – and we have much cheaper and easier installation to keep the costs down. But whoopee!)

  270. broboxley OT says

    scored a huge win. Few days ago son asked me to order “Girl who kicked over a hornets nest” for his SO for christmas. Decided to buy my xmas present for myself at the same time. Ordered a few pratchett’s I haven’t read. Read the blurb for “the last hero” put it on the list. Books arrived today. That book IS THE FULLY ILLUSTRATED VERSION!! supersized glorious looking pictures. Will enjoy this one in many different ways.

  271. broboxley OT says

    shit, a facebook entry just landed in my inbox

    “So my best friend gets in the car and says, ya know, I think onions, think they are ugly. I asked her why, she said because you get them naked and start crying. If you got me naked, and started crying, I’d be offended.hahahahhaha omg.”

    the best friend in question is my 14yo dottir sigh

  272. ImaginesABeach says

    Yea Joe! Have a great reunion with BossNurse and enjoy a night in a home that finally feels safe.

  273. thunk, cold air advection says

    Cicely:

    C. Six. Letters. GAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

    Azkyroth:

    Why yes I am in high school. But I’m curious anyway.

  274. says

    I posted this on Facebook too but: any tips for getting good hotel deals? Specifically when you’ve already decided on a hotel (so none of those Priceline gigs where you basically say “give me someplace to stay, cheap”.

    Misterc and I are going for a weekend trip to the Big City for our anniversary next summer and I’d like to get as good a price as possible for a hotel with a wee bit of luxury. Said hotel chain already has a “lowest price guarantee” on their own website.

  275. says

    Yay for Joe, Esteleth,Ogvorbis, and mildlymagnificent.
    @Broboxley
    AFAIK, all copies of The last Hero are illustrated, and it does indeed kick ass on many levels.

    rq
    The Tiffany Aching books are suitable for younger children, although the very young might need reading to. Other books that occurred to me: the Ramona Quimby books by Beverly Cleary.

    And yay for me, I just got upgraded to full time, which means I get health benefits now, and also a few hundred dollars more in my next paycheck, which will be an enormous help.

  276. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Good news here for a change: Joe, Oggie, and Esteleth, throws confetti in their general direction.

  277. broboxley OT says

    kristinc, never mind, you already decided on the hotel…

    So for others
    DC area during the weekend Greenbelt courtyard marriot, take the train, good restaurants nearby
    NYC best western on the Jersey side of nyc at the base of GW bridge
    SanFran Top of the Mark weekdays

    ATL IHG perimeter

    YMMV

  278. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    NYC best western on the Jersey side of nyc at the base of GW bridge
    SanFran Top of the Mark weekdays

    ATL IHG perimeter

    YMMV

    EIEIO?

  279. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Thunk: email text is as follows:

    2013 NASA Student Airborne Research Program (SARP)
    June 9 – August 2, 2013
    The NASA Airborne Science Program invites highly motivated junior and senior undergraduates to apply for participation in the NASA Student Airborne Research Program (SARP 2013). SARP provides students with hands-on research experience in all aspects of a major scientific campaign, from detailed planning on how to achieve mission objectives to formal presentation of results and conclusions to peers and others.
    Participants will fly onboard the NASA DC-8 aircraft where they will assist in the operation of instruments to sample and measure atmospheric gases and to image land and water surfaces in multiple spectral bands. Along with airborne data collection, students will participate in taking measurements at field sites. Students will work in multi-disciplinary teams to study surface, atmospheric, and oceanographic processes. Each student will develop his/her own individual research project. Many students have gone on to present their results at conferences such as AGU, AMS, and ASLO.
    Instrument and flight preparations, and the research flights themselves, will take place at NASA’s Dryden Aircraft Operations Facility, in Palmdale, CA. Post-flight data analysis and interpretation will take place at the University of California, Irvine. Applicants must have a strong academic background in any of the physical, chemical, or biological sciences, or engineering and an interest in applying their background to the study of the Earth system. We especially encourage applications from students majoring in Earth, environmental or atmospheric sciences and related disciplines.
    SARP participants will receive round-trip travel to California, housing and transportation during the 8-week program, a $3000 stipend and a $2500 meals allowance.

    The deadline for all applications is Feb. 8, 2013.
    Applicants must be US citizens currently enrolled in a four-year college or university.
    For more information and to download the program application, visit: http://www.nserc.und.edu/learning/SARP2013.html.
    To watch a video about the program, visit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2-jqE43PG0
    Please also see the attached flyer.
    Specific questions about the program should be directed to SARP2013@nserc.und.edu.


    Emily Schaller, Ph.D.
    Science and Education Coordinator
    National Suborbital Education and Research Center
    701-317-0789
    e.schaller@nserc.und.edu

  280. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    In case anyone wants to know how, I learned how to remove an alternator from a diesel engine tonight. And by learned how, I mean I held the light and asked intermittent questions.

  281. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    G’night everybody, hope everyone is as well or better in the morning.

  282. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    A few years back, when Prince William was still unmarried, I posted somewhere that the United Kingdom needed to change the royal inheritance laws. If the first-born royal child was a girl, and greeted as third in line to the throne (making it Chucko, William, William’s child), that would be all fine and dandy, until a boy child was born and took precedence in the line to the throne, displacing the female. Then several kinds of heck would break out, with women everywhere rightly taking umbrage.

    So it turns out that the UK and the Commonwealth figured out the same thing (or read my post), and have enacted that as law, and back-dated it, even, to make it more legal. If the first child of the now-pregnant Kate formerly-Middleton is a girl, that girl is 3rd-heir to the throne, and her little brother cannot bump her out.

    The interesting thing to me is that the ancient and medieval law that they had to overturn, after untold centuries of male-privileged Dark-Age patronage, was only enacted in 1701. Apparently, before that, the first-born got the job, regardless of the shape of their plumbing. But in 1701 the menz took care to take precedent.

    I may research that a bit, but I thought it was odd.

  283. chigau (無) says

    Yay for everything good!
    Especially Improbable Joe and BossNurse.
    (how are the critters taking it?)

    Hugs and rum for everything ungood.

  284. chigau (無) says

    Anyone awake
    I’m at comment #157 on the “It’s a good idea…” thread
    should I keep reading or skip to the end?

  285. mildlymagnificent says

    Well done Joe.

    Happiness all round. And for all other good news.

    Menyambal – 1701. I see the pernicious hands of the two Jameses here. Succeeding Elizabeth they set about reversing all the advantages of education and trade that women had previously had – even before Elizabeth’s time women could own and run businesses http://www.antithetical.org/restlesswind/plinth/wimguild2.html (just my first googly hit).

    I haven’t the book handy, but I remember reading a quote from one noblewoman lamenting the loss of rights during this period, particularly education for her class, that nowadays a “woman needs only wit enough to tell her husband’s bed from any other” – that isn’t accurate in the words used but it is in content/tone.

  286. Beatrice says

    good morning

    Congrats Sally, Joe, Ogvorbis and whoever else had something good happen to them!

  287. chigau (無) says

    SallyStrange #370
    I read to the end and snuck some brownies.
    *The InterNets is Hard!*

    and I have seven more threads to do catch-up…
    I know
    moar beer!

  288. says

    Good morning
    I think I have an appointment at 9 am with my dentist. I don’t know for sure. I’m pretty sure I’m not going to make 9…

    Yay! For all those great news.

    Portia
    How come I know a bunch of lawyers but no rich ones? OK, I know one who’s doing pretty well…

  289. rq says

    Good morning!
    No sun again today. Ah well, at least we made it outside yesterday.

    +++

    *fur hat for Tony, should he ever decide to go North*

    Hoorays, confetti, chocolate cakes and beer for Ogvorbis and wife, and for Improbable Joe and BossNurse.

    Hoorays, general cheering, and sparkling champagne for all those whose insurance has been lowered (Esteleth), those coming into some money (via promotion/status change at work) (Dalillama), those whose investments are starting to pay off (mildlymagnificent – my aunt took advantage of the same program, and is expecting some returns around this time, as well!).

    Hugs, moral support, mulled wine and/or hot chocolate and gingerbread to those needing some warmth.

    +++

    I’m adding myself to the ‘coming into money’ group, because I received another sudden unexpected translating (side)job which will triple my usual monthly translating income for January.
    This is on top of the one I did in October that has a quadruple effect and the one I just finished with a double effect.
    Yes, I am gloating a little bit. Because house. Now approaching faster than a well-aimed factoid.

  290. says

    Speaking of financial bonuses, I also indirectly got a check from my last employer. I say indirectly because the check was my share of a class action settlement against them for wage theft, and some law firm actually sent the check.

  291. rq says

    Dalillama
    Sweeeeeet.

    For me, it’s just a bit weird to realize that my side-job/hobby is now earning me almost twice as much as my ‘real’ job does. :/ With a minimum of effort.
    If I didn’t love the lab so much, I know what I would do.
    And no, forensic lab work here isn’t super-lucrative (like it should be). It’s pretty low down the list, which is why I need the translating in the first place…

  292. ednaz says

    JOE IS HOME!! Hooray! No one deserves it more!

    mildlymagnificent – Hooray for solar panels!
    I am so jealous! I wish the U.S. would get with the solar panel program.

    Esteleth – Hooray for a better insurance deal!

    Portia – Good Job Assistant Auto Mechanic!

    chigau – I brought more rum for all the celebrating! hee hee

    SallyStrange – Hooray for the New Bebeh Nephew! I bet Auntie is so happy!

    rq – Hooray for more income!

    Anyone I have missed – have some rum! I brought plenty!

    : D : D : D : D

  293. rq says

    Today’s excitement is provided by the fire engine and ambulance pulling up outside of the building, and a whole lot of bustle and discussion between firemen, paramedics and the building’s caretaker. :/

  294. Beatrice says

    Another congrats to everyone getting some unexpected boost in income.

    rq,

    Someone got stuck in the elevator?

    The interview today went really well. The interviewer told me that a board makes the final decision, but I’m her candidate. And there were only 5 of us.

    On the other hand… I think there is something about my eager face that makes people tell me “you’re my best candidate”, “I would give you the job immediately”, “I hope the board chooses you” and similar. So that kind of encouragement leaves me more and more doubtful.

  295. rq says

    Dalillama
    Oh, I remember the Boxcar children! That was a good series.
    Which automatically leads me to The Saddle Club (cicely‘s favourite!). Which, if I recall correctly, were also pretty decent and with lots of sequels.

    Beatrice
    That’s my guess, too.
    re: interviews
    One of those times they’ll actually give it to you. Eager faces in interviews are supposed to be good, yes? :) I have added more thumbs to your pile! :)

  296. rq says

    Make that two fire engines – one with a ladder.
    But it was parked on the other side of the building, so the boys didn’t see it until it was driving away. They seem disappointed.
    (And yes, it was either a renovations incident with the neighbours upstairs (their fervent drilling and sawing was suddenly cut short shortly before the arrival of emergency vehicles), or somebody got stuck in the elevator. Since we’re right next to it, and the firemen mostly sat in their truck after the initial conversation, I’m betting the former.)

  297. says

    beatrice
    How about this:

    I think there is something about my eager face that makes people tell me “you’re my best candidate”, “I would give you the job immediately”, “I hope the board chooses you” and similar. So that kind of encouragement leaves me more and more doubtful. understand that I’m really looking forward to that job and that my motivation is a huge plus.

    I think you have convinced yourself thoroughly that you’re really a failure and therefore every person who says something nice about you is just doing that: being nice so you don’t make sad puppy eyes, because, honestly, why would anybody think you’re really the best person* for that job?
    How do I know? Well, I have a mirror. Because I’m just the same. It took me a while to accept human kindness just as that and to believe people who sincerely expressed some compassion for me. When people said I really had a busy life, I would think they’re just being nice.

    (((hugs))) and good luck for the job.

    *There is no “best person” for a job.
    Within every group that applies there will be several people who are 100% able to do the job and the actual job-performance will vary a lot with factors no person doing an interview or reading resumees can tell in advance.

  298. rq says

    Beatrice
    Giliell has once again put me to shame. What she said.
    Because you have to believe that sometimes, you are the best person for the job.
    True story: my cousin applied for a job (in Brussels) with one opening, 3 candidates. The interviewer loved her, told her so, and told her she’d push for her in the committee meeting. Unfortunately, she didn’t get the position. BUT. Two weeks later she got a call from the company, from the interviewer, with news that, because she liked her so much and put in a good word for her, they’d opened a second position just so they could hire her. True story. :) Anecdotal and all that, but – consider, as Giliell said, that they may actually be telling you the truth. And allow yourself to feel special for it. :)
    *hugs*

  299. Beatrice says

    Giliell,

    Yeah, that definitely sounds like me. That’s why I also can’t take compliments. I immediately wonder why this person said this nice thing about me. What’s the deal, an agenda or I just looked pathetic? It’s really tiring, actually, always secondtenth(?)guessing everything.

    I’m glad you got better at this. There’s hope for me too, then. :)

  300. opposablethumbs says

    Drive-by, sadly – just to say YAYYYYY for Joe and Esteleth and SallyStrange et al, and hugsandchocolate for any whose hugsandchololate metabolism needs a boost for any reason. Crossed tentacles for Beatrice.

    (also, wow that was a couple of unbelievably nasty shitstains on Ashley’s blog just now. The guy who drafted a letter of apology to her dad on her behalf actually gave me chills – the thought of having a smiling, self-satisfied psychopath like that as a father, exercising power over you and feeling so happy doing it … real horror-film grade chills. But worse, because he and those like him are so numerous, and are real)

  301. says

    beatrice
    There’s definetly hope. And believe me, life gets better then. But I admit that it’s hard work and that I’m still learning.
    You know when you have to practise saying things?Mine is “yes, thank you!”

    +++
    What am i doing in the kitchen making cookie dough when I have a presentation to write?

  302. rq says

    Giliell
    Procrastinating?

    opposablethumbs
    Agreed on the racist bigots on that thread. *shudder* You know what struck me about the second one? The fact that he constantly referred to Ashley’s boyfriend as ‘the black male’. Like he wasn’t even human. HOW DO PEOPLE DO THAT? :(

    +++

    Also, I previously forgot SallyStrange in my list of Good Things for People with Good News, so wild applause, leaps of joy, and delicious, delicious pie (of your choice) with ice cream (your choice) in celebration of the Big Event! Spoil that nephew rotten. His parents deserve it, no doubt. ;)

  303. Nick Gotts (formerly KG) says

    The interesting thing to me is that the ancient and medieval law that they had to overturn, after untold centuries of male-privileged Dark-Age patronage, was only enacted in 1701. Apparently, before that, the first-born got the job, regardless of the shape of their plumbing. – Menyambal

    Not true at all. Henry VIII was succeeded, in 1547, by his son, Edward VI, who had two older sisters (later Mary I and Elizabeth I). Edward IV was succeeded, in 1470, by his son Edward V, who also had two older sisters living. I’m sure there are other examples, given that no woman succeeded to the throne before Mary I. (Henry I tried to leave the throne to his daughter Matilda in 1135 – he had no living son – but her cousin Stephen displaced her.) What may well be true is that the rules weren’t written down until 1701, when the Act of Settlement made it explicit that Parliament had the power to specify the rules of succession.

  304. says

    rq

    Procrastinating?

    Partly.
    That’s why I prefer working in the library. I’m really bad at getting organized and doing something from start to finish and setting priorities. So at home with all the other things that have to be done, too, I will “quickly load the dishwasher”, “just do the laundry so it can run while I work on this” or just plain trip over something and then clean it up. In the library I’m forced to wirk on one thing…
    But I’ve done the biggest part of it now, so, lunch.

  305. rq says

    Giliell
    That’s my problem working from home, too. There’s always something to pick up or clean.
    Ah well.
    Good luck with the presentation!! And put those chores down.

  306. says

    Well, I’m mostly going to take a shower now.
    I have the main part worked out intellectually.
    I need to get the materials scanned and included but not this afternoon.

    +++
    mini-rant:
    My last name is spelled with an E. There’s no Ä in it, damn it. Why can’t even people with a PhD bother?

    +++
    more rant:
    Reading over Ashley’s thread again, I often hope that, in absence of a just god, people who got such shit from their parents will in the end not be the bigger person and will just let them grow old and bitter alone, always aware that out there is your child, probably even your grandchildren, who would keep you company now, visit you, call you, love you, take care of you, but you, you alone drove them away by being a shitty asshole and sorry excuse for a human being.

  307. rq says

    Ah, I do so love it when all the children are napping and I set off the fire-alarm with my dinner preparations…

  308. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Giliell

    How come I know a bunch of lawyers but no rich ones? OK, I know one who’s doing pretty well…

    Ha, don’t get me started ; )

    rq

    Yes, I am gloating a little bit. Because house. Now approaching faster than a well-aimed factoid.

    Congratulations!!!

    SallyStrange
    *confetti* and *cigarsifyouwish* :D

    Beatrice
    Fingers crossed that the encouragement was sincere!

    Giliell

    What am i doing in the kitchen making cookie dough when I have a presentation to write?

    Because you need brain food. No procrastination guilt : )

    rq

    That’s my problem working from home, too. There’s always something to pick up or clean.

    Ditto. Sigh.

    Re: children’s books. You all keep naming some of my favorites from growing up.

  309. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Nothing like randomly keyboard mashing at PubMed and finding a 2008 paper that explains all of your experimental problems.

    *flail*

  310. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    I read that thread at Ashley Miller’s yesterday and checked again to see that letter. Fucking awful. What a terrible human being. Glad to see she banned them.

    Which reminds me…

    This morning, we had a higher up at our Rotary event. This lady mentioned she wanted to find ways to reach out to the growing Latin@ community to bring them into Rotary. A woman from our local chapter piped up that “We have one in our club, FirstName HispanicLastName. He was adopted by a Hispanic family.” Said guy is lily white. I wouldn’t be so skeptical of his ability to present a diverse perspective that we would gain from Latin@ members if he hadn’t gone on a protracted, disgusting, racist and sexist diatribe in the middle of a meeting a couple of weeks ago. And yet he’s apparently considered to be our token minority because his wife and his parents are Latin@. I’m not totally qualified to be the judge of the situation, being white, but it makes me uncomfortable.

  311. Beatrice says

    I made Olivier salad/Russian salad (no meat version)… which is Russian. Since we call it francuska salata (French salad) over here, I was convinced it was from France until today.

    Anyway. I forgot the peas. I blame cicely.

  312. rq says

    Beatrice
    I think that’s what we call ‘rosols’. Never liked the stuff anyway, mostly because of the peas.

    Portia re:#401
    Damn, that makes me uncomfortable just reading about it.
    And that letter is horrendous. Imagine? The most important relationship she should be having is with her dad? For her entire life? Yeah… Wow.

    And yes, that Iago, because he says ‘Excellent work, Iago’ in Jafar’s voice in that clip, and that’s the effect I was going for previously. Also, red. Not quite sporty-and-glam, but it’s a parrot. :) Pirates have them. :)

  313. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq, Thanks for catching me up on the joke. :) And I like how you are building on my alter-ego/internet persona! Red is my favorite color to wear, so it works out.

    Lots of people’s fathers are very important to them…but that is freaking up to the individual. That creepwad is so twisted. My own dad is a very nice guy and was a good dad growing up. But now, he clearly prioritizes his live-in girlfriend at every opportunity. To the point that it is impossible for me to have one-on-one time with him. But I’m sure that asshat would have me apologize to my father for that fact. The slightly less overt misogyny of Larry’s attitudes are what really makes my skin crawl. The racist stuff makes me want to punch him, but the misogyny makes me scared. I guess that’s why intersectionality is so important…

    /rant.

  314. thunk, cold air advection says

    Beatrice:

    So that’s that funny-looking salad thing at the center of the table? (aside from that vinegret).

  315. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    SallyStrange:
    Congrats on the addition to your extended family!
    ****

    Dalillama:
    More money coming your way! Very, very good news
    ****

    rq:
    It’s going to be easier to buy xmas presents now, what with the additional money from your side job.
    ****

    Anyone have a link to this letter @ Ashley’s blog? I won’t be on my laptop til later and searching on phone= not easy.
    ****

  316. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Beatrice:
    Please picture me as a mad scientist with a curly mustache:
    “YES. We have won another over. Pea lovers of the world shall one day tremble before our po–hey squirrel!”

  317. Beatrice says

    On the radio:

    Some sort of quack (didn’t listen from the beginning so I don’t know her credentials), talks some idiocy about positive thoughts. Science has become a form of religious dogma. People are taught that our whole health is in our genes. That our parents are to blame if we get a tumor, and that people are literally taught that. Breast cancer awareness programs are harmful because they make women think negative thoughts. SHe has a dear friend who became obsessed with checking her breasts for lumps. Until one day she found one, it turned out to be malignant. Radio host* asks “So she created it herself?”. Answer: “Yes”.

    I turned the radio off then.

    *This particular radio host is such an idjit I don’t doubt for a moment she actually swallowed this shit hook, line and sinker.

  318. hockeymonkey says

    If anyone would like to give me an opinion or advice on the following letter, it’d be much appreciated. It’s in regards to a prayer offered at a cheerleading banquet. The cheerleading organization is affiliated with our public school. My daughter LOVES this activity, and I don’t want to single her out as having a “trouble-making parent”. Text follows:

    “I want to express my appreciation for all your hard work during this year’s cheer season. My daughter xxx had a fabulous time cheering for yyy, and can’t wait to begin again next season. It must be an incredible work load for you and your team to ensure it all runs so smoothly. It couldn’t happen without all the hard work you & the other board members put in. Thank you so much for that.

    We also had a lot of fun at the banquet. Overall, it was a wonderful event, and the girls really seemed to appreciate the recognition. However, I was a little uncomfortable with the prayer before the festivities. Asking for a blessing from God/the Father excludes those families who don’t have a belief in that vision of God, or in any Gods whatsoever. There are some wonderful secular blessings out there that celebrate the spirit of giving and thankfulness without referencing any sort of deity. Or perhaps a moment of silence could be offered, where all could choose to pray or reflect in the manner they see fit. As our organization is affiliated with the school district and accepts girls from all faith backgrounds, I think it’s especially important to remain neutral in matters of religion.

    Please let me know what you think. I’d be happy to discuss this further with you.

  319. Beatrice says

    My French/Russian salad usually has:
    carrots
    potatoes
    PEAS
    eggs
    pickles
    ——
    cooked (except pickles, of course) and cut into little cubes
    mayonnaise
    salt

    I don’t really like mayonnaise in large quantities, so is usually looks more colorful and less like vegetables drowned in a gallon of mayonnaise.

  320. thunk, cold air advection says

    One of our teachers is doing an intersession activity simply titled “HORSE!” Enough said.

  321. dianne says

    Does anyone else wonder, just a little, if “Larry” might actually be Ashley Miller’s father? He’s so obsessed with the idea that she’s rebellious and that reconciling with her father is her only possible path to happiness…

  322. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Hockeymonkey:
    I think the letter is perfect as is.

  323. says

    Yay, Joe! When’s the housewarming?

    And listen, Thread, I really thought I’d commented that in last night, and it seems to have disappeared entirely… So… Ummm… Probably something to do with the general flakiness of smartphones for longer comments threads (you don’t want to know how cranky mine gets about even giving me an edit window in those in the first place, once we’re up to a few hundred comments). But if it did appear somewhere and I’m just missing it somehow, no, this you’re not experiencing dèja vu. Just in case.

  324. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Beatrice:
    Salad purist here–where are your greens?
    I know, salads are composed of all kinds of ingredients, and greens aren’t always part of the mix. I’ve just always associated salad with the leafy veggies (I am aware of chicken salad and pasta salad).

  325. says

    hockeymonkey/#413:

    I find that very diplomatic. But my window may be in a pretty strange place, relative to many. Anyway, for what it’s worth.

    … oh, also, I’d go with no capital on the plural ‘gods’. Normally is. God with the capital is fine elsewhere (the singular ‘God’ referring specifically to the Abrahamic figure) since it’s treated like a proper name in this said context.

  326. Beatrice says

    Tony,

    Leafy greens and mayo? No way.

    Greens are to be unsullied by anything but salt, oil and vinegar.

  327. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Fround?
    Really?!
    razzum frazzum stooopid phone.

    or alternative explanation:
    Darnit big fingers!

  328. says

    Leafy greens and mayo? No way.

    Greens are to be unsullied by anything but salt, oil and vinegar.

    I like my greens with black pepper. Anything from spinach to Buk Choy needs to have a generous serving of crushed black pepper on it. Salad, not so much I guess…

  329. Beatrice says

    Possibly.
    I have to correct my above statement above leafy greens. It depends on the kind. This goes only with salt, oil&vinegar. And that’s the one I most often eat.
    Some others, like rucola or radicchio, may be combined with eggs or beans, and then pepper is permissible.
    But never mayo.

    Looks like I’m a worse salad purist than you. ;)

  330. rq says

    Tony
    Extra cash does not me a happy shopper instantly make. I’d still delegate to you, if there was enough time.
    Plus, that money’s going into the future-house-furniture fund, because if we don’t put it away, it’ll fritter away slowly into nothing. Because money has a short half-life in this household.

    As for salads, well, potato salad never has leafy greens. Why is it called a salad? Chicken salad? Nyah nyah. You said it yourself.
    That being said, I love green salads with a passion matched only by my love for horses. Or something. Yummy vit-amins.

    Beatrice
    I am only a fan of horses. I have never liked peas. I can bear with them, and I don’t jerk my knee like cicely does, but I’m not a fan. I’ll eat them in salads if covered in mayo, but that’s about it.

    hockeymonkey
    That letter sounds very good to me. But I don’t have any experience in these matters. For what it’s worth.

    Portia
    If I ever have the time, I will make you a picture of your internet persona. I love playing in photoshop; unfortunately, my free time is already all eaten up by all kinds of things.

    As for dads, Larry just freaks the hell out of me, because, because… Yes, the overt misogyny, and the threatening undertones, like Ashley’s a child who is misbehaving and will be punished eventually… It’s just scary reading, is what it is. Ick.

  331. Rey Fox says

    One of our teachers is doing an intersession activity simply titled “HORSE!” Enough said.

    No, not enough said. Is it the basketball shooting game? Something different? Why the exclamation point?

  332. Beatrice says

    And of course, spinach can go with all kinds of things.
    Er, spinach is a leafy green too. Ups.
    (Still not mayo)

  333. Beatrice says

    So.

    Leafy greens and mayo? No way.

    GreensOne particular kind of leafy green which is the one I most often eat and apparently generalize onto everything are is to be unsullied by anything but salt, oil and vinegar.

  334. rq says

    SPINACH.
    With mandarin slices, toasted almonds, and a raspberry-balsamic vinegar dressing. Salt and pepper obligatory.

  335. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Oh, salad?

    My favorite:

    On a bed of fresh baby spinach, nice and green, add chopped hard-boiled egg, bacon, and feta cheese. Dribble honey mustard dressing over it all.

    (Also good: take all the aforementioned and put it inside a flatbread. OM NOM)

  336. Beatrice says

    A feta cheese salad:

    Fresh tomatoes, feta, cucumbers, peppers*, salt, pepper*, olive oil, lemon juice or a bit of vinegar

    *seriously, English? So many words, but then you have peppers and pepper

  337. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Crazy Climate Denialist quote of the week:

    “The advantage of my ignorance of the science is that I can offer an independent analysis of the data.”

    This was said in all seriousness after modeling Earth’s temperature as an unbounded random walk. One of the many reasons why this is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG is that it ignores conservation of energy. You really can’t make this stuff up. Unfortunately, you don’t have to.

  338. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Holy crap my phone is blowing up with new clients this week. I may be able to replace my junker before long after all. I went 3 for 3 with new client interviews who retained my services on Monday. More and more since then. I’ll need a paralegal if this keeps up…

    #bestproblemstohave

  339. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    Beatrice, back when I was researching the craziness of “alternative medicine”, I kept seeing a strong, strong emphasis on the value of positive thoughts. There were those who made it sound like the bogus meds were just there to give a focus to the positive thoughts, because mental attitude was everything. Yay for the power of the mind!

    Then every one of the bastards would start slagging conventional medicine, and say how it was useless and bad, and hospitals were bad and worse. Which was filling people with negative thoughts, and, if the power of the mind was so great, would probably lead to them …. no, I can’t think of anything to say except they were killing people. People would be lying in a modern hospital, getting the best of care, scaring themselves to death, and the “power of the mind” people would not see how they were responsible.

  340. opposablethumbs says

    hockeymonkey 413 I also think the letter reads very well. Of course there may well be people who would have a fit and be up in arms over even so courteous an approach as this – but such people would perhaps find a way to feel “offended” by the mere suggestion that someone is querying them in the first place, so there’s no avoiding it!

  341. Nepenthe says

    Cool. Sorry for the intrusion. My posts haven’t been going through over at the anti-rape straw thread.

  342. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    thanks Beatrice: )

    My fellow skeptics might have the same reaction I did to the following: I met with the tenant who lives in my grandfather’s house today. They are negotiating a sale and my grandpa asked me to be the go-between. The tenant is a really nice real estate agent. Four years ago, my grandmother passed away. Tenant asked me if she passed in the house. I said yes. He said, ok, that’s what we were thinking because we think she’s there. The table-top fake Christmas tree has been falling over, you see, and they couldn’t figure out why “her ghost” didn’t like the tree. Turns out, the lights on the table around the tree were getting to hot, and melting the feet the stree stood on. So, ergo, QED, her ghost is protecting them by alerting them the lights are dangerously hot by knocking over the tree. *facepalm* It was sweet, sort of, but kind of obnoxious in the way it was when everyone told me it was Gawd’s Plan™ when she passed away.

    (If a ghost can knock over a tree, why can a ghost not control a freaking pen and paper?!)

  343. rq says

    Portia
    Yay!

    I don’t want to spoil the mood by calling it out, but today seems a general good-news day. That makes me happy. :)
    (I mean, this is if we ignore all those negative commenters on some rather gloomy and depressing posts…)

    Menyambal
    I’ve noticed that, too – as if actual medicine depresses eveyrone’s happy thoughts, and that’s why it doesn’t work, yet all the bogus stuff focuses happy thoughts and… magically magicks away disease?
    Yeah.

    +++

    Speaking of magic, the boys’ current explanation for everything is ‘Magic!’ I hope it’s a phase. :P

  344. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    So today I said to myself, “Self, you pay $81.88 a month for TV cable service. And in the past six months, you watched MSNBC for 15 minutes, and have not otherwise touched your TV.”

    So I called Time Warner. Sat on hold, waded through their goddamn “tell the robot what you want” system, and got a customer service rep.

    Customer service rep first told me that TW had no record of me as a customer. (!!!) Then said that she’d transfer me to someone else who could help me.

    I then sat on hold for 20 minutes and then got hung up on.

    Stay classy, Time Warner. Stay classy.

  345. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    I really like graham crackers.

    Graham crackers really like Nutella.

    Congrats where due; behbehs, $$$$, etc.

    “Faster than a speeding factoid!”

    Which automatically leads me to The Saddle Club (cicely‘s favourite!).

    And once again, rq inadvertently catches my sister in her nets, as I swim freely away.
    :D

    The guy who drafted a letter of apology to her dad on her behalf[...]

    I don’t wanta look.
    I don’t.
    .
    .
    .
    Linky?

    Anyway. I forgot the peas. I blame cicely.

    Indeed. Where ever there are peas to be forgotten, I will be there, in “spirit”, if not in corporeality.

    Aha. Linky.
    *reads*
    O-o
    Racist, patronising asswipe.

    I am only a fan of horses. I have never liked peas. I can bear with them, and I don’t jerk my knee like cicely does, but I’m not a fan. I’ll eat them in salads if covered in mayo, but that’s about it.

    1) Peas *hawwwwk! spit* are not improved by mayo, which has its own place on Nuggan’s List of Abominated Objects.
    2) If I didn’t jerk my knees regularly, the damned things wouldn’t hardly get any exercise a-tall.

    SPINACH.
    With mandarin slices, toasted almonds, and a raspberry-balsamic vinegar dressing. Salt and pepper obligatory.

    I can agree with you on this, except for the pepper. I avoid eating Painful Hot Objects. And the salt; these days, I get unpleasantly puffy feet and ankles if I get too much salt.

    On a bed of fresh baby spinach, nice and green, add chopped hard-boiled egg, bacon, and feta cheese. Dribble honey mustard dressing over it all.

    Also yummy.
    -

  346. hockeymonkey says

    Aww, thanks Tony, AJ Milne, rq, and opposable thumbs! I’m going to send it today. I will let you all know how it goes.

  347. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    Customer service rep first told me that TW had no record of me as a customer. (!!!) Then said that she’d transfer me to someone else who could help me.

    “In that case, I need you to connect me with the Billing Department, or possibly Legal, so that we can discuss the refunding of all the money for which you’ve billed me, and which I’ve paid. Thank you!”
    -

  348. rq says

    Portia
    I like the Christmas tree story. :P I wonder, if the tree’s feet hadn’t been made of plastic, how your grandmother would have managed to signal that the lights were getting hot…? Burn the house down? Seems excessive.
    But then, I suppose ghosts aren’t known for their self-restraint. :P

  349. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Ha, exactly, rq. What’s ridiculous is it’s so typical of that sort of credulous person. It was Tenant’s wife who came up with the ghost theory, and her husband who actually checked the physical reason that the tree wasn’t staying upright. And he still went with “zomg ghost” Before even doing the most basic investigation into why the tree fell over and over, the lady attributed it to supernatural causes.

  350. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Just had lunch. Macaroni and cheese, to which I added an ingredient to make it a complete and delicious meal.

    Peas.

    Suck it, haterz.

  351. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Good idea, Josh, I was just thinking about what to have for lunch. I think I have the stuff for mac n peas.

  352. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    So I called Time Warner. Sat on hold, waded through their goddamn “tell the robot what you want” system, and got a customer service rep.

    Customer service rep first told me that TW had no record of me as a customer. (!!!)

    Well, if they claim you’re not a customer it seems to me that you don’t owe them money for the service any more, since they’re obviously providing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

  353. carlie says

    Oh gods yes. Add in some canned tuna to the mix, and you have one of my favorite comfort meals.

  354. carlie says

    I see there were several foods discusses – I was referring to adding tuna to the mac and peas.

  355. Beatrice says

    I am soo sleepy amd it’s barely half past 7pm. I guess I’ll have to save the \alphaEP thread for tomorrow. It will probably be long enough to entertain me for some time, considering the topic.

  356. rq says

    I hate how these threads get so long and interesting that my time just disappears while delving into them. /snark

  357. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Just had lunch. Macaroni and cheese, to which I added an ingredient to make it a complete and delicious meal.

    Peas.

    Suck it, haterz.

    Ooh. I need to make this again :3

  358. says

    Esteleth/#446

    We ditched cable like a year or more ago, now. Can’t remember exactly. It’s been video on demand and those mailed disk services, since. And I set up an antenna for digital/terrestrial broadcasts, just so we have backup/can watch local news live if there’s like a thing happening, emergency, whatever…

    The paranoid in me thinks the cable people know the writing is on the wall, and doing the ISP thing (still lucrative, I’d expect, if less so, and you still provide the video, or just the link via which people acquire it) is all that’s going to be left to them, but they’re trying to make it as annoying as possible for people to leave as a ‘delay the inevitable’ tactic.

  359. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    That’s my thinking, AJ. Between my Netflix account and my *cough* knowledge of the web *cough,* I don’t need cable service.

    Now, internet is a different story. Not canceling that.

  360. says

    … oh, and when I say ‘video on demand’, I actually mean: download, paid services, things like iTunes. Again, not the cable company’s servers. They just give us the pipe…

    (… and I’ll probably be switching that out for DSL, shortly, but shh, don’t tell them… Say, this is coming to you on their pipe, you don’t suppose they’d FZZT And cable is awesome! I love my cable! I’d never think of quitting! I’d give them MORE money, I tell you! Also, ask us also about our Cable For Life Don’t You Dare Leave Us Ever channel bundles! FZZT… )

    (/In unrelated, but related to last week’s music/persistence will do wonders thing, I just had a downright epiphany level breakthrough on my bow hold (cello). Seriously. Like, geez, this is it, I get it, I can’t believe how much better this is, I could play for like hours now with way less grimacing on both sides–as in mine and the listeners’… And it was mostly about persistence, discipline, regular practice, I’m pretty sure making it even possible. I won’t go into the endless string player wonkish details, but anyway, we’re talking pretty awesome, and this was one of those things I was seriously beginning to fear I would just never get, like there was just something totally weird/mutant about my thumb and wrist or something. Apparently not. So, again: persistence.)

  361. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    I count myself fortunate that my landlord (a stand-up guy) included high-speed internet in the utilities that are included in my rent. So I can walk away from TW without looking back.

  362. says

    I count myself fortunate that my landlord (a stand-up guy) included high-speed internet in the utilities that are included in my rent.

    Sweet.

    I begin to think the various places that are thinking in terms of everyone just getting the net as a sort of basic/necessary service have got it essentially right. So much of the world now, and it’s so crippling not to have it. But, y’know, I work for people who make a lot on server hardware, so I guess I should probably write some ‘financially interested party’ disclaimer in saying that.

  363. says

    Pfft. And I really have to get back to work, stop this comment burst thing… But anyway, vis à vis yesterday’s discussion of weather:

    It’s SNOWING!.

    Big white flakes. Lots of them. Something like four below freezing, I think…

    (/… now do I dig out the boarding boots again, or do I wait for more accumulation before risking this?)

  364. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    My secret ingredient for mac-n-cheese is Worcestershire sauce. I don’t use it anywhere else, but I dash some over the mac. Used to, I mean. I’ve stopped eating cheese, so I need to find uses for the two big bottles that I bought at the bulk store.

    Tuna is good, it almost makes a casserole out of mac-n-cheese.

    The girl cat was eating mac-n-cheese the other day. I wonder how she’d like it with tuna?

  365. rq says

    AJ Milne

    It’s like riding a bike, or a board – you can struggle and struggle and struggle, and then suddenly there’s a huge *CLICK* moment when your body gets what your brain has been trying to get it to get for so long… And then it’s just there. :) But without the struggle, you wouldn’t get it.
    I’ve been there, with the violin – the bow-hold and vibrato. It just clicked at one point. And now it’s easy to pick it back up.
    Yay for stringed instruments! I love the cello, but I’ve always had a soft spot for the viola. Seems underplayed.

  366. broboxley OT says

    wow a reason for peas

    in fact, to accurately reproduce Soviet cuisine is the only legitimate use for canned peas

  367. Beatrice says

    Oh, now I remembered a delicious pasta salad:

    pasta, sweet corn, tuna, mayo + salt, pepper

  368. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    oh no he didn’t!
    Come on cicely, we’ve got a spokesgay to whip with wet noodles or alternately: Jolting Josh w Jello!

  369. says

    … I’ve always had a soft spot for the viola. Seems underplayed.

    Heh. Yeah. I know of a few folk now who wound up playing it initially primarily just because one was needed to round out a quartet or whatever, and it was the one thing missing.

  370. says

    Good evening

    Wonderful pasta-salad:
    Penne
    Delicious cocktail tomatoes
    Feta cheese
    Some
    Ruccola
    Olives
    Mix a glass of pest a la Genovese (or some homemade pesto) with some mild vinegar.
    Mix everything.
    Enjoy.

    +++++
    Mum-post to follow, please, feel free to ignore if you’Re as fed up with the shit as I am…

    So, tonight is St. Nick’s eve. According to the legend, St. Nick delivered the gifts during the night from the 5th to the 6th, so some people celebrate on the 5th, some on the 6th. We always celebrated on the 5th because that’s also the family-birthday. Seriously, we were so poor, they couldn’t even afford to give everybody their own birthday. So my gran’s sister was born on the 5th, her nephew, his niece, her nephew.
    So, sister and I had agreed to make cookies with the kids and gran one afternoon, and today was the perfect day: I had some free time and it was St. Nick’s so we could really have a cosy family day.
    Mum was present and agreed to this plan. We had even discussed that I would bring the dough (because I’m not so stupid to leave a crucial detail to her). Guess what, she managed to forget about St. Nick’s. Her lung-cancer ridden cousin didn’t forget. But no, their own grandma forgot. I know why I volunteered to get them the christmas presents…
    And when I said “I’m going to take the phone and the phonebook down to gran so she can call Berlin (where the niece lives)”, she asked “why would she call them today?”.
    But, and here’s the joke, she tore up her sick slip and wants to return to work on Monday. I guess her psychiatrist told her something she didn’t want to hear.
    Well, I’m not going to feel sorry for her when they fire her for being drunk in a medical lab…

    +++
    Now I just hope the guy from Sophia doesn’t call tonight…

  371. carlie says

    I’ve stopped eating cheese, so I need to find uses for the two big bottles that I bought at the bulk store.

    Pork chops. Particularly breaded pork chops. Mmmm.

  372. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    oh no he didn’t!
    Come on cicely, we’ve got a spokesgay to whip with wet noodles or alternately: Jolting Josh w Jello!

    *looking around wildly*
    What?!? Where?!?

    (The Cane was sucking to an unacceptable degree. I had to fix it. And now we’ve got…what? Horse Shrines? Paeans to Peas?)

    I swear, I take my eye off the ball for one minute!
    -

  373. rq says

    Beatrice
    Add a touch of tomato sauce or mustard to that sauce, and yeah – great salad! (I ‘invented’ something similar one year when I didn’t know what to do with the leftover past and the last canned tuna in the cupboard.)

    broboxley
    I knew there was a purpose to peas! And to Soviet cuisine (because how else will we rid the world of canned peas?).

    Giliell
    **hugshugshugs**
    And happy St Nick’s, tomorrow is eldest’s middle-name-day. So yes, candy for everyone!

    +++

    So many salads tonight!
    And, before I forget again, I present:

    PIRAGI (warning: animal products (among those, bacon*))

    Dough:
    ½ c. warm water
    2 tsp. sugar
    2 envelopes dry yeast

    3 c. milk, scalded
    ¾ c. oil
    2 tbsp. sugar
    1 ½ tbsp. salt
    2 eggs, slightly beaten
    ½ c. sour cream/yogurt

    Bacon filling:
    2 lbs. (1 kg**) lean bacon, chopped very fine
    2 onions, diced very fine
    salt & pepper to taste

    In a hot pan, stir-fry mixture about 5 – 10 minutes. Remove separated fat. Cool mixture.

    About 6 cups all-purpose flour, more or less.

    Prepare yeast: in a small bowl mix sugar with water; sprinkle yeast on top; set aside in a warm place for 10 minutes. Yeast should bubble up to double the size.
    Meanwhile, scald milk and put in a large mixing bowl. Add salt, sugar and oil and stir. Mix eggs with sour cream. When milk has cooled to lukewarm, add egg mixture; add yeast mixture and 2 cups of the flour. Beat thoroughly with a wooden spoon. Add another cup of flour and continue beating. Add more flour as necessary. When the dough begins to leave the sides of the bowl, turn it out onto a lightly floured board or counter. Keep working in enough flour so that it can be handled without sticking to your hands or the board. Knead the dough with the heel of your hands, slapping the ball down forcibly a few times.
    Place the dough into a greased bowl; grease the top of the ball and cover with plastic wrap. Place in a warm spot to rise, about 1 ½ hours, or until doubled.
    Punch dough down. Take a piece and roll out into a long strand. Cut into 1” pieces, flatten and fill with bacon mixture. Pinch sides together, place on a greased cookie sheet, brush with a beaten egg + milk. Bake at 400ºF until nicely browned.

    *bacon may be substituted with fried onions, sauerkraut, cheese, chicken, ground beef, etc.
    **From previous experience, MORE bacon is always better, because (a) some always disappears during the process and (b) there’s always too much dough.

    Leftover dough can be used to make cinnamon rolls or caraway buns (make thin worm of dough, tie into knot, sprinkle with caraway seeds) or other treats needing white bread as a base.

  374. says

    Wow, lots of good news all around! Congrats to everyone, I’m going to be doing more reading than commenting because I’m on my cell phone data plan for at least a few more days up to a week.

  375. Nick Gotts (formerly KG) says

    Now, all you ailurophiles, admit it: this would not be remotely within the capabilities of cats!

  376. says

    AJ, are these special snowflakes?

    ‘Kay… So I’ve been checking since you asked, and I still haven’t found two alike…

    (/… I’ll keep checking.)

  377. rq says

    That poor man (Mr Burns).

    +++

    Ok, so I’m late to the party, but the gob-evo-psych comments have me giggling at the moment. Does it get bad? (I suppose I’ll find out.)
    Aside: Males are supposed to bond over sports hunting, right? According to evo-psych and that vague recollection of an anthropology course in university way back? Anyway. I don’t recall ever hearing about female bonding, except once, when it was mentioned as some odd theory that maybe females have bonding rituals too, but they haven’t been studied blablabla. Or something.
    But anyway, if hanging out at the mall foraging doesn’t allow women to bond, then I wonder – how did we ever evolve to be considered so damn talkative? Personally, I think it’s because all that lack of teamwork and communication during all that shopping foraging makes us thirsty for conversation, so when our man comes home from his sports game hunting trip, we’re just going to talk his ear right off.
    Right?
    Ok, I’m going back to that thread, and tomorrow I’ll try to catch up on the threads actually still active…

  378. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    But in a meeting last year, Walmart officials decided against agreeing to pay suppliers more so that they could upgrade their manufacturing facilities and pay for the costs of safety improvements. “Specifically to the issue of any corrections on electrical and fire safety, we are talking about 4,500 factories, and in most cases very extensive and costly modifications would need to be undertaken to some factories,” Walmart officials said in documents obtained by Bloomberg News. “It is not financially feasible for the brands to make such investments.”
    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/05/1289711/walmart-decided-to-not-improve-saftey-at-bangladesh-factories-in-2011/

    Ok, Fuck you Wal-Mart. They just keep adding reasons for me never to shop there. I was ignorant of a lot of the issues surrounding the company, but I’m not anymore. Wal-Mart is close to my house and one of the only places that I can buy groceries when I get off work late at night. I’ve since attempted to shop at different times so that I can patronize Publix or Winn Dixie.
    ****

    Voter suppression in the Wisconsin state constitution? Mr. Vos, exactly what are the problems that necessitate forcing citizens of your state to have Photo ID’s to vote?

    VOS: I do think that having photo ID is something that is broadly supported by the public. It’s something that I really hope we have in place by the next general election. If there were some serious issues raised by the Dane County court I’m looking to fix those, but ultimately I want to make sure photo ID is the law of Wisconsin.

    ****
    Out of 1,132 people, more men than women are sensitive to rape jokes?

  379. rq says

    Giliell
    Nope. :) But it was on our list. Both of those, actually.
    Eldest’s first name is a variation on the usual long form of his middle name (all of their middle names are short forms of their first names; Husband didn’t want two completely different names), but not the name of the saint celebrated tomorrow. (He’s in the Bible.) :)
    Middle child’s name is also held by several saints, but my favourite is this one, mostly because of the writing/educational aspect.
    Youngest child’s name is the patron saint of friendship, book sellers, publishers and editors, and yes, one of the apostles. Also oddly suitable for me.
    (It seems your friend and I have followed a similar algorithm to naming children. :P)

    It seems odd now to have such obviously religious names for them all, but it was difficult to choose – outright Latvian names are difficult in English, and rare is the English name that transfers well into Latvian (without horrible mangling). We went for the culturally religious aspect of the region from which most of our collective (i.e. mine and Husband’s) families originate historically, and got a whole bunch of Roman-Catholicism. But it works in both languages, plus we purposely looked for really old names rare in Latvia (if not elsewhere).

  380. rq says

    DRINKING GAME
    Every time justinvacula writes ‘Rebecca Watson’ or indirectly mentions Elevatorgate in his comments, take a drink.
    Oh wait…

  381. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Ord’s point is that if we care about what our money is doing, we should look for the most effective charities. (His group asks people to pledge to give 10 percent of income to the places where it will be most effective. He has decided he can live comfortably on $18,000 pounds (a little less than $30,000) per year and will give away everything he earns above that.)

    What are the “most effective charities?” Ones that:

    — Aim to solve the most serious problems (in the normal calculus, this means that providing bed nets to save children from malaria ranks above helping public radio stations or art museums).

    — Use interventions that work.

    — Employ cost-effective strategies (trachoma surgeries, rather than training guide dogs, to help the blind).

    — Are competent and honest. The percentage of donations spent on overhead is one measure of these qualities.

    — Can make good use of each additional dollar. This is the hardest point to assess, but it asks whether the group has the program on the ground to use your money well, and whether your donation will make something happen that otherwise wouldn’t.
    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/05/putting-charities-to-the-test/?ref=opinion

    Food for thought. I know these are things I’m going to consider when I’m in a better financial position. I fully intend to donate to charities, and I think choosing a charity that is effective at achieving its goals is a good idea.

  382. says

    Mmm salads, I love them all. As long as the ingredients are good quality. Even the poor maligned iceberg lettuce has its place – crunchy and near flavourless, so handy as a base where you want other things to star. Today’s lunch is one of those mayo-glued salads: tuna, potato, egg, corn, pickles, 3-bean mix. With lime-chilli mayo, and a side of fresh greens.

    Unfortunately for me, a hot lunch would be more appetising today. WTF, weather?? 35C on the weekend, 35F this morning??!

  383. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    rq @491:

    Uh, I’ve been drinking already.
    If I have to play that game, someone from *another* country will be driving me home…

  384. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    rq:
    I think some individuals throw the “findings” of evo psych so far out the window that they’re on another planet.
    For instance, I’m a guy (he says, checking the equipment again to make sure). I *love* shopping. As I’ve said, I can spend an entire day in a mall. I go out of town and *want* to shop. I don’t mind lots of people in the mall. The bigger the mall, the better. I like to shop for clothes. I like to shop for electronics. I like to shop for food. I shop for all manner of items. I even like company when I shop, because I can discuss what the heck I’m interested and get different perspectives. I can also offer my opinion to someone I’m shopping with.

    Contrast that with…

    I have no desire to go hunting.
    I’ve never gone fishing (except for that one time when I was a young one when my father took me. it didn’t last long and I caught nothing).
    I don’t like watching sports. I’d rather play something.
    I detest football. Too violent and too religion like.
    I can’t work on cars for shit.

    So how do gay men fit into evo psych explanations for gender differences?

  385. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    So how do gay men fit into evo psych explanations for gender differences?

    Girdles.

  386. says

    I know someone already linked to the wingnut-castle-project a while back, so I won’t bother re-linking. but I’d like y’all to admire the following sentence:

    Living in a house, townhome or condo within the Citadel requires residents to voluntarily assume responsibilities for the common defense.

  387. Khantron, the alien that only loves says

    Sorry to be ignoring everything said in the lounge, but testing, testing, am I in the spam folder. Repeat, testing testing one two three four. I guess that wasn’t really a repeat.

  388. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Jadehawk, that entire ad was an exercise in paranoid thinking and a glimpse into a way of life I am happy I am not a part of.