Why I am an atheist – Dee »« The Bill Nye story is not true

Comments

  1. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Stop fucking leaving, “Oh, I’m so sorry for you Jen, but I understand,” posts on her thread.

    Buck the fuck up and fight those bastards. Call them out. Shame them. Read them until they’re ragged.

    It’s not cool and it’s not enough to say ‘take care of yourself, Jen.’

    Change the goddamn conversation that drove her—and so many women—to this.

  2. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    The pig is cute, I’ll grant it, but the mood I’m in after reading about Jen’s departure…I don’t know what could improve it.

  3. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Josh:
    I understand what you’re saying, but I we can still offer our sympathies to Jen, *while* fighting those scumbags.

  4. John Morales says

    FossilFishy:

    Joe Have you seen this? Knife vs. Gun.

    Knife in hand, gun in holster.

    (Bah — typical “mythbusters”)

  5. says

    On second thought…

    Josh. Splash damage? Maybe we can go on the attack, but maybe we don’t do it in the name of Jen McCreight? After all, maybe you and I can afford the hits for getting super-aggressive. Do we want to accidentally force it on Jen when all she wants is to get some distance?

  6. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Joe, that’s a good point. Thanks for putting that in front of me.

    Suggestions welcome.

  7. John Morales says

    Pteryxx:

    This might be a good time to send support to Jen …

    Might?

    That’s equivalent to claiming it might not be a good time not to support Jen.

    (Not what you meant, is it?)

  8. John Morales says

    Improbable Joe:

    And it is a fucking shame about Jen McCreight… I guess we know who the REAL bullies are, don’t we?

    Not really, but we know who the real victims are; those who can’t hack it.

    (Ah well, fucking shame and all that stuff)

  9. says

    I think we need to fight FOR things, not against the jerks. They’re sucking all the oxygen, getting all the attention. WE HAVE WORK TO DO! Let’s prove them wrong by our ACTIONS! PLEASE!

  10. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Sigh. It’s so depressing, all this inhumanity and horrible-ness. I’m glad it’s raining. Fits my mood and will help lull me to sleep.

  11. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    John:

    those who can’t hack it.

    Please tell me you’re not referring to Jen here.

  12. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Josh:
    I hope you sleep well.
    I’m too livid for it.
    Great time for T to be using my car.
    I could use a drink or 3.

  13. John Morales says

    Tony:

    Please tell me you’re not referring to Jen here.

    I quote Jen: “I just can’t take it anymore [sic].”

    I but paraphrase her, when I note she can’t hack it.

    (Am I wrong?)

  14. says

    I wish I knew what to do. For people who ought to know better, the assholes are not amenable to reason. This is the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory gone out of control — Jen’s not the first. Laci Green took a hiatus for much the same reason.

  15. jenniferphillips says

    But Josh, I do completely understand what sounds like a sound mental health decision, and I think it’s fair to say that without adding fighting words to legitimize it. I definitely don’t want her to feel like she’s ‘failed’ the movement, and if she needs a break, as Joe suggests, I don’t want to drag her name back into it to prove a point.

  16. ibyea says

    @improbable joe
    I wonder how it is a victory if they only took down one person. This A+ thing is an idea, and ideas are not that easily beaten. We all know this from superhero movies ^_^.

  17. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    jenniferphillips:

    I agree. The last thing I want to do is drag Jen into any more shit. My hashtag was hasty and ill-conceived, and I’m not using it.

    I feel like either getting into a boxing ring and clocking some asshole, or having a good cry.

  18. chigau (違わない) says

    John Morales

    (Am I wrong?)

    No. But “utterly lacking in empathy” or “insensitive lout” might apply.

  19. anteprepro says

    The goons are already claiming victory on Twitter.

    Guess silencing someone due to attrition from sheer volume of hateful venom is the MRA equivalent to conversion. Bet they’re the atheist equivalents of Christians who send inane complaints or outright death threats to everything and anything that challenges their worldview and high-five each other when they get the offending person/item/whatever out of public view. That is to say: They are amoral, fearmongering, desperate and reactionary assclowns that worship the status quo and despise being exposed to the sunlight.

    John: Do you understand that “she can’t hack it” sounds like a judgment of her ability to perform and her perseverance? And how that, in turn, sounds fucking horrible in the context of all of this?

  20. Pteryxx says

    is there a #thisiswhathatelookslike ? I feel that SOME sort of coordinated response should happen.

  21. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    John:

    Tony:
    Please tell me you’re not referring to Jen here.
    I quote Jen: “I just can’t take it anymore [sic].”

    I but paraphrase her, when I note she can’t hack it.

    (Am I wrong?)

    IMO, yes.
    It’s insensitive at best.

  22. John Morales says

    Various people:

    But “utterly lacking in empathy” or “insensitive lout” might apply.

    Do you understand that “she can’t hack it” sounds like a judgment of her ability to perform and her perseverance? And how that, in turn, sounds fucking horrible in the context of all of this?

    It’s insensitive at best.

    Maybe so, but I call it as I see it, and I speak truth when I but repeat her own claim.

    (I admit I find it dismaying and that comes as a surprise to me and that I feel sorry for her and that I’m sympathetic to her cause, but nonetheless facts are facts and straight talking is what we supposedly pride ourselves on, here)

  23. jenniferphillips says

    Josh, I hear you. I am feeling pretty sad and helpless about the situation–and all the more impressed that Rebecca, Ophelia, Greta, Elyse, etc. have hung in there as long as they have.

    John Morales–really? Do you believe you’re capable of judging how much of a relentless hate campaign anyone can ‘hack’? Got some experience with people sockpuppeting you and posting scores of comments about how much you love to suck cock? And that was just ONE DAY. Leave her the fuck alone.

    *remembering the piglet*

    Leave her the fuck alone please.

  24. chigau (違わない) says

    John Morales
    “can’t hack it” is usually reserved for people who give up early in a fight.
    It is inappropriate to use it in this situation.
    Jen McCreight “hacked it” for a long time.

  25. John Morales says

    jenniferphillips:

    Do you believe you’re capable of judging how much of a relentless hate campaign anyone can ‘hack’?

    Whether I do or not, it’s her very own claim: “I just can’t take it anymore.”

    (Where am I supposedly judging?)

  26. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    chigau @26:
    Yes, she did ‘hack it’ for a long time.
    What she put up with is enough to wear down many people. But she stuck with it for quite a while.
    “Can’t hack it”, as you say doesn’t apply in this case.

  27. jenniferphillips says

    @ John Morales, your first comment on this thread said

    Not really, but we know who the real victims are; those who can’t hack it.

    Sounds a lot like judgement to me. Please, don’t bother following with some semantic twaddle about what you really meant–I don’t care. Your comment was unpleasant and, in my opinion, indefensible, despite your subsequent efforts to legitimize it. I’m done with you.

  28. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    I don’t think moderation is necessary here.
    I feel John is being quite insensitive about this, but he’s not being uncivil.

  29. says

    So, I appear to have run into some actual sophisticated neoliberals in the Atheism+ forum. Here’s how it went:

    Neoliberal: … it isn’t economically feasible to fund [moving to clean energy] in the foreseeable future.

    Me: Because…money is this mystical magical social convention that we somehow can’t create any more of. I mean, it’s not like we haven’t funded some (Iraq) expensive (Afghanistan) wars (Drugs), trips to the moon, and oh hey, free university for veterans (GI Bill), among many other things.

    Another neoliberal: Neoliberal #1’s point was that what matters is not how much money it would take; what matters is how much RESOURCES it would take. I.e., wealth.

    We cannot afford at this moment to devote the massive amount of resources it would require to implement the technology Neoliberal #1 was talking about.

    Ack…ger…nerrkle…blag…grag…azi…ni…zu…GWAAAAAAAAAARGH! I thought that as atheists we all learned from god-stomping re-asserting the same position with more vague terminology is total bullshit…why am I running into arguments like this in Atheism+…

    WHAT THE FUCK IS THERE TO THIS FUCKING SOPHISTICATED ECONOMICS OTHER THAN APING RELIGION? I DON’T CARE IF IT NEEDS A TEAL DEER, FUCKING WRITE ME ONE RATHER THAN JUST TALKING DOWN TO ME FROM YOUR GODDAMN IVORY TOWER OF THE 1% IF YOU’RE SO INTERESTED IN FREE INQUIRY AND DEBATE RATHER THAN STIFLING IT WITH YOUR WEALTHSPLAINING.

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  30. John Morales says

    Flewellyn, yes, clearly, paraphrasing the victim and noting we know the victim’s identity but not really that of those who did the bullying is blaming the victim.

    (And semantics mean nothing and to care about such is uncivil; it’s all about the terminology and the tone)

    </snark>

  31. says

    Flewellyn, yes, clearly, paraphrasing the victim and noting we know the victim’s identity but not really that of those who did the bullying is blaming the victim.

    (And semantics mean nothing and to care about such is uncivil; it’s all about the terminology and the tone)

    Gaslighting is not particularly civil either. Or ethical.

  32. John Morales says

    [meta]

    Since responding to everyone who addresses my simple and truthful (yet clearly controversial) claim would increase the proportion of my posts in this thread beyond PZ’s regulatory tolerance guidelines, I hereby desist.

    (Snipe away here (I can hack it ;)) or take it to Thunderdome)

  33. rowanvt says

    @John Morales.

    I second the idea that your posts are bad, your subject is bad, and you should feel bad about that.

    Putting up with the level of pettiness and vitriol Jen has for the length of time she has is entirely astounding and is worthy of praise for her level of determination that allowed her to last that long.

    If I had to train to run a marathon, I wouldn’t be able to hack it. My asthma would get me within the first couple days. I would have to give up right away, and without really trying.

    Jen stuck with it for ages. She tried and tried. But people are being assholes, and trying actively to make her feel bad. And now you come along and add to it, by implying she’s weak, weak-hearted, lazy and all around not good enough. That is a bad idea, a bad thing to articulate, and you should feel bad about that.

    In other news, my blind yellow rat snake managed to miss his mouse and bite my thumb instead. I was startled and stupidly jerked my hand away. Thus not only did I get bit, but I got to have three souvenirs I had to fish from my flesh.

    http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7936/owwieratbait.jpg

  34. says

    ibyea, the point of my argument is to strike at the heart of the neoliberal religious assumption that we don’t have enough money for all these things that we did before that were amazingly good for the economy back when we said “fuck cost, we’re getting to the fucking moon“, and then mobilized resources to the desired ends.

    It’s little different from dealing with sophisticated theology, and that includes getting people to have my back when I say that the neoliberal emperor is stark fucking naked so we can get past the bullshit and closer to a working solution.

    And it’s really really fucking hard asking these questions when I’m seemingly the only one willing to go whack away at the neoliberals’ ivory tower, and they keep dropping rocks on my head because how dare I assail the tower of the 1%.

  35. ibyea says

    @setar
    Neoliberalism seems to me the same free market bull Republicans are advocating. One would think you would have plenty of support. How do they answer when you hammer them with Chile under Pinochet case study (which led to the economic crisis of 1982)?

  36. says

    Oh, I should also note, Quebec’s election today was promising for a while but turned out in utter failure. Here are the tentative results:

    63 seats needed for a majority
    Parti Quebecois (neoliberal/left) – 54
    Liberal (neoliberal/right) – 50
    Coalition Avenir Quebec (“centre” — but their support base comes mainly from the old right-wing Action Democratique, so that’s a lie as usual) – 19
    Quebec Solidaire (anti-neoliberal progressive feminist) – 2

    When I first heard the projection of a PQ government, I excitedly flipped to the CBC to see that the PQ were sitting at 58, meaning that there was a shot at a PQ minority where QS would have held the balance of power.

    No more. Now either the PQ have to cooperate with Charest’s NeoLiberals who tried to screw over students and free assembly (eventually causing this election to be held), or with the lying radical “centrists” of CAQ, in order to get a majority. One could hope for a snap election, but that would most likely result in a PQ or Liberal majority, not the magic number of 61-62 for PQ that would give QS the balance of power with their two (mostly) safe seats.

  37. ibyea says

    @Setar
    Makes me wonder who are the idiots voting for the Liberal party, the party that ended up causing the huge student protests.

  38. says

    ibyea:

    Neoliberalism seems to me the same free market bull Republicans are advocating. One would think you would have plenty of support. How do they answer when you hammer them with Chile under Pinochet case study (which led to the economic crisis of 1982)?

    Haven’t had the chance to bring that up yet. I’m getting -some- support there, yes, but part of me is really just wondering if this is all there is to destroying neoliberal arguments.

    It’s head-bashingly simple, and yet even when we do our best to cut out all the -isms surrounding it we still get sophisticated neoliberal theologian ivory towers popping up, and when we’re not getting those we get conservatives popping up and bloviating about being accepted by all these tribalistic liberals.

    Religion also has side arguments that go somewhat into philosophy and morality, dispensing with the false claims. Neoliberalism is just a one trick pony, sitting atop the ivory tower of bullshit and throwing a tantrum (and a lot of said bullshit) when anyone so much as touches it. Where religion provides at least the appearance of being open to inquiry, neoliberalism simply responds with “THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.”

  39. says

    ibyea #50:

    Makes me wonder who are the idiots voting for the Liberal party, the party that ended up causing the huge student protests.

    Anglophones mostly, and as far as Quebec goes being an Anglophonr appears to simply mean massive amounts of privilege because geez, what’s with all these French separatists who are so pissed off at the rest of the country, can’t they just get over being shit on by the ruling English-speakers since the Seven Years’ War?

  40. says

    (Okay, yeah, I know there’s a “debate” going on about the legitimacy of Quebec’s issues.

    Based on the country’s history, though, I am very inclined to say that there is a privilege dynamic in place (and has been since the Seven Years War ended), where English Canada is privileged over French Canada, and the “debate” is simply false equivalence on the part of the highly privileged English Canadians, most of whom know shit all about what goes on in Quebec. Most notably, out West where I live there is a significant amount of anti-Quebec sentiment and all of it is pure bigotry.)

  41. ibyea says

    @setar
    The worst part of the neoliberalism thing is that they are winning. Heck, even Hollande of the French socialist party is telling Greece to do the same failed policies. So now it is making me wonder whether he is the Obama of France. I was hoping he would do more to twist the knife deeper into Merkel’s metaphorical bleeding wound (she is losing in Germany and all).

  42. says

    Here’s probably the worst example of how Quebec has been screwed over by the rest of Canada: the Kitchen Accord.

    Short summary: when the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was being constructed, Quebec premier Rene Levesque felt that Quebec’s rights as a distinct society were being infringed upon and balked. The other premiers (or in some cases representatives) met without his knowledge and hammered out an agreement of their own, which Levesque only found out about at the breakfast table the next morning — and he reacted to this by, basically, walking out.

    In English Canada, Levesque is basically characterized as having thrown a tantrum. Never mind, of course, that he was at the time the premier of the second-largest province, or that Quebec does have a distinct society and culture. No, no, because the damn Frenchie didn’t fall in line with the good Englishmen, the Frenchie is being a whiny crybaby like French people always are (or something like that).

    Trudeau, despite being from Quebec, gets a pass on this because he was going along with the good Englishmen, of course.

    The work a year does. What was “controversial” and “complicated” when I learned it in Social Studies 11 now makes sense: Quebec is getting shit on by English Canada, and when they try to assert themselves English Canada ridicules and derides them until they get put “in their place”.

  43. says

    ibyea #54:

    The worst part of the neoliberalism thing is that they are winning. Heck, even Hollande of the French socialist party is telling Greece to do the same failed policies. So now it is making me wonder whether he is the Obama of France. I was hoping he would do more to twist the knife deeper into Merkel’s metaphorical bleeding wound (she is losing in Germany and all).

    They’re not just winning, they’re steamrolling. Pretty much every major political party nowadays (unless you’re in Iceland) trumpets neoliberalism, including the leftist ones.

    The absolute worst example has to be the UK Labour Party. Holy fuck, how can you still call yourselves leftist after falling in lockstep with King George W?

  44. ibyea says

    @setar
    A Star Wars reference is in order:

    [random leftist to Hollande]: You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the conservatives, not join them! Bring balance to the political force, not leave it in darkness!

    ^_^

  45. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    ibyea:
    Whoa!
    I’m not used to seeing people speak about any of the prequels…at least not without disdain :)

  46. ednaz says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being @ #179 (previous thread)

    Thank You for the link. I look forward to checking it out.

  47. ibyea says

    @Tony
    Personally, Revenge of the Sith was okay, even if they screwed up the main objective of the movie, which is Anakin’s development. It was so poorly done that I can’t believe any of it happened. The reason being that it seemed like he turned from jerk to evil, instead of good to evil, but even the transition from jerk to evil was poorly done. On the other hand, Palpatine’s rise to power was done well. Also, I liked Obi Wan and Anakin’s final confrontation. Plus, the movie has a few quotable moments, even if many of them are hammy (POWEERR! ABBSSSOLLUUTTEE POOOOWEEERRR!) or cheesy. But it is sad that the novelization of the movie was better than the movie itself.

  48. ibyea says

    Oh, and one more bad thing about Revenge. The romance between Anakin and Padme is so unbelieveable. I think someone replaced Padme with a robot duplicate that would fall in love with Anakin no matter how much of a jerk he is. It was one of the most dull romance I have ever seen. The lack of chemistry between them was incredible. So Anakin did all of that just for a romance that sucked that badly?

  49. says

    These people are like terrorists because what they have is an intense hatred, and utter obsessiveness to devote to destruction. They have anonymity and don’t stick around very long to fight against a superior component. It’s not about right or wrong but only winning. Truth doesn’t really seem to matter to them. Or maybe they think they’re right, but if they did, why not just try to reason or convince? I don’t say that because I disagree with their views.
    Oh wait, I see the topic has switched the political parties of Iceland and how neoliberals are or aren’t taking over something. Damn internet!

  50. says

    SGBM, I understand that you’re fed up and grant the merits of your argument. This is something I’m going to look into myself.

    That being said, rushing in here to post that just because I mentioned ‘Tis reeks of vendetta (as did the way you introduced yourself to the Atheism+ forums by simply going after ‘Tis). Regardless of your argument’s strength, that sort of action is going to create hyperskepticism because of the well-known conflict between you and ‘Tis, notwithstanding the extra skepticism you’re already going to get because of that COI (which is, by the way, why I’m going to look into this myself).

    Please, for the sake of your credibility, knock it off.

  51. strange gods before me ॐ says

    That being said, rushing in here to post that just because I mentioned ‘Tis reeks of vendetta

    Hilarity, from my perspective.

    I’m just having fun.

    Knock yourself out.

    Please, for the sake of your credibility, knock it off.

    It’s not my credibility that’s at stake here, kind sir.

  52. Louis says

    Josh, #1,

    Fair enough. I did see your post after I’d posted over at Jen’s though! :-)

    Point taken, but, and it’s a significant but, we all do what we can I hope. Jen’s decision to go for an indefinite break is her decision, she’s not failing anyone by re-evaluating her level of direct action and involvement based on the consequences. And neither is any one else.

    I am very much of the mind that we should all fight, but only so far as we are willing and capable of doing so. Knowing which fights to pick and when to walk away from a fight is a difficult art to master, and since it’s an art, not a science, there’s a lot of disagreement about matters of taste, and matters of taste aren’t up for the same level of dispute as matters of fact.

    In the case of Jen and Rebecca and MANY others, I am just amazed at how much they have put up with, not how little. I’d have crumbled under that level of personalised abuse, far before it actually. That they haven’t (because withdrawing =/= crumbling) is a testament to their strength. I am constantly astounded by what the women in almost all walks of life have to endure simply to engage in a activity like discussion.

    I see this has been “got”, and that there has been a derail of Thunderdomic Nature, so I’ll shut up and say “I agree with you, plus a little bit extra!”. ;-)

    Louis

  53. says

    Good morning
    So, three hours of my life to get a slip that said the little one is fit enough to attend kindergarten. And because it’s such fun we’ll do most of this and more again in 5 weeks for her regular 36 months check-up. But we combined it with having breakfast as McD, a place we only visit for peeing usually.
    Also, dear person working at the ped’s office. You looked really young, and you’Re clearly very inexperienced and probably just starting. Here’ a hint: If a child brings their plushie, don’t make up a name you think fitting. The child thinks you’re stupid. (this is true for other adults, too, consider it a PSA)

    Audley
    Yay for healthy you and healthy DF. And she still has plenty of time to turn around and if she doesn’t you can at least pick her birthday ;)
    Oh, and I’m still grinning

    My pregnancy went 40 weeks 5 days. The last 5 were…long.

    Fun fact: Both kids were due on a Sunday. #1 arrived the Thursday after that, the lttle one the Thursday before. Although #1 drove me crazy.

    Portia
    Hmm, has it ever occured to her that bodily autonomy means that nobody has the right to bully her into an abortion either?

    How do you handle it when your kids’ friends are disrespectful or rude? I’m really trying not to dislike the neighbor’s 12 year old, but it seems like it’s his mission to make it happen.

    It’s OK to dislike kids. I’m generally a very kids-friendly person, but I don’t have to like them all. Doesn’t make either of us assholes. As with unacceptable behaviour, it’s often helpfull to ask yourself: Why is the kid acting like that?
    Do they know it’s wrong and they’re doing it to provoke you? Ignore the bad behaviour and give them some positive attention.
    Are they doing it becaus they think they can get away with it? I have used The Look successfully with that.
    Is it just that they might live in a family/community where nobody gives a shit about that kind of behaviour? Set your own rules and make clear that you don’t care if they can call their mother shit, but you won’t accept such behaviour in your place or towards you.

    carlie
    Hugs for your family. That’s some extra-stress to go along with losing a family-member.

    kiddie-games
    We play lion-family. One is the lion, the other ones “hide” in our bedroom. When they’re ready the lion comes in, roaring loudly, showing its claws, searches the others and eats them up. Then we all end up in one cuddly pile.

    Fossil Fishy

    I’ve got a rule though, if she says “Stop it.” I stop, no questions and let her initiate any continuation. It’s never too soon to start teaching her that it’s her body and within safety and health limits (“No honey, I do have to look at your knee to see if it’s bleeding”) she’s in charge of it.

    This.
    I insist on politeness, so they have to say “Hello” and “Goodbye”, but that’s it. But I’ll ask them kindly if they’ll give their great-grandma a kiss because that makes her so happy.
    And it’s amazing to see the look in children’s faces if they are actually asked. I do this with my friend’s boys and they are delighted to have a choice. Only the last time, when the oldest declined a kiss and went for a handshake, my godson, the youngest got panicky: “But I want a KISS!”. He’s a snotty ball of cuddly fluff.

    +++

    Yeah. Victory for you motherfuckers. You drove Jen McCreight off.

    Fuck
    Josh

    Stop fucking leaving, “Oh, I’m so sorry for you Jen, but I understand,” posts on her thread.

    Buck the fuck up and fight those bastards. Call them out. Shame them. Read them until they’re ragged.

    Well, I think most people here have been doing that a lot over the last year. And it has worn us out, just like it did to Jen. And I’m not even standing on the frontline and it’s actually not a place I would go right now. Yes, that means the intimidation works. But the world won’t become a better place if good people get broken. So, yes, I’m sorry that she leaves, but I also completely understand her. Heros just suck.

    I feel like either getting into a boxing ring and clocking some asshole, or having a good cry.

    Yes, that.

    John Morales
    You know those times when you would better just STFU because you process stuff differently than most of us do? This is one of them.

  54. Louis says

    Audley,

    Oooooh DarkFetus is breach? All the best Fetuses are in my view. My own dear son was Very Breach! He was the wrong way up, bracing himself against the walls of the Beloved’s uterus and refusing to come out. He was also tap dancing on the placenta which was conveniently located right over my wife’s cervix. This meant a (planned, obviously!) caesarian in order to keep both mother and baby alive, something which, after much deliberation we all decided was a good idea. Although the wife’s life insurance policy was quite tasty and I could have had a Ferrari.

    We decided to go for having both the woman and child living, I know, I know, call me an old softie wishy washy liberal but we had a family chat and apparently people, even women and Non Working Baby Units, came out as being of greater “value” than material goods and profit. Amazeballs. Sue me for being the sentimentalist that I am.

    I still think about that Ferrari though…

    Sadly we didn’t get to pick the Boy’s birthday perfectly otherwise it would have been a day later for comedy numerical reasons. We had a choice of dates and went for one just before our wedding anniversary so a) we could wind him up when he’s a teenager by claiming he was born before we got married (which doesn’t matter, but I am planning on trolling that little fucker IRL until he leaves home. Shit on ME in public will you, you little bollocks? I will have my revenge!) and b) have fewer dates to remember.

    Important considerations I think you’ll agree.

    Louis

  55. Nick Gotts (formerly KG) says

    Pretty much every major political party nowadays (unless you’re in Iceland) trumpets neoliberalism, including the leftist ones. – Setár, self-appointed Elf-Sheriff of the FreethoughtBlogs Star Chamber

    Something of an exaggeration I’d say. Syriza in Greece came from almost nowhere to being the official opposition by fighting neoliberalism. The Dutch Socialist Party is likely to do well (although it’s lost some ground in recent polls) in elections on September 12th. Then of course there’s South America, where various shades of leftist are in power in Argentina, Uruguay, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Brazil (admittedly more willing to compromise with neoliberalism than the others listed).

  56. Beatrice says

    What a cesspool this thread is. So many people who need help. I’ll not be back.

    Ok.
    *shrug*

    ——

    Giliell,

    I like your idea in #68.

  57. Louis says

    Are there any budding film makers out there, I have an idea I’d like to discuss. I have no idea about script writing etc etc so, like a billion other deluded fools I think I can write a successful movie! ;-)

    Please disabuse me of this notion and also discuss with me this film idea with a view to becoming the next George Lucas before he murdered Indy and touched me on the Trilogy.

    Louis

  58. Louis says

    What a cesspool this thread is. So many people who need help. I’ll not be back.

    And not a single fuck was given.*

    Louis

    * I checked with the pig, this was deemed okay. I then surveyed a number of other pigs, they all said “oink”, which is clear approval.

  59. carlie says

    Read what you guys said about Michelle Obama’s speech, read about it in the Washington Post, sounds like it was a great speech, went to CNN to see what they had to say about it. Their headline: “First lady’s dress gets high marks.” Fuck you, CNN.

  60. Louis says

    Lexie,

    As it happens I do.

    Sadly, being a bacon lover most of the entries have the various oinks and squees defined as “I would make a delicious sandwich, please kill me, it is my honour to be eaten by you. Also, have you considered slow roasted belly of me with an onion and apple jam?”.

    I have never denied I am a very bad person, and I never claimed it was a very good dictionary.

    Louis

    P.S. With apologies to pigs, Douglas Adams and all ethical consumers everywhere including those on the vegetarian axis.

  61. richardh says

    If you speak pig, I could use a english-porcine dictionary, do you happen to have one?

    This (“look inside” at page 85) is all you need:

    “Begin the ‘hoo’ in a low minor of quarter notes in four-four time. From this, build gradually to a higher note until at last the voice is soaring in full crescendo, reaching F sharp on the natural scale and dwelling for two retarded half-notes, then breaking into a shower of accidental grace notes.”

  62. says

    Some of the reactions to Jen’s quitting aren’t just nasty, they’re sociopathic. The scariest thing, is that one of the haters (@WoolyBumblebee) claims to be running a school anti-bullying program. Do you think she’s aiming for a suicide cluster?

  63. lexie says

    Louis,

    I like your porcine english dictionary. However, while you are right that food is on the pigs mind you seem to have misunderstood them, some of them are probably thinking that you look potentially tasty.

    As it happens I am one of those on the vegetarian axis (for interest why is it an axis it makes me think that I must be part of some secret conspiracy or an evil plot to gain world control).

  64. Louis says

    Lexie,

    Ahhh the dictionary for those pigs who think *I* am lunch, indeed. That would be the “Big Hairy Pig” to English dictionary. My bad! ;-)

    I used “vegetarian axis” as a wide descriptor to indicate that there are many ostensibly “vegetarian” positions, from strict vegans to “I’m a vegetarian I don’t eat meat I only eat chicken and fish” quasi-vegetarians. I’ve got nothing against veggies of any stripe. They’re fun to cook for at dinner parties I think (which is the only serious interaction I would have other than conversation). I really have to think about how to make properly delicious vegetarian/vegan food in these instances, not from any lack of deliciousness on the part of vegetarian/vegan food, but simply because cooking meaty things to deliciousness is second nature.

    I wish I had the moral courage and lack of meat gluttony to actually be a veggie. As someone more than a little supportive of various environmentally beneficial activities, it’s about the biggest lifestyle contribution I could make. Well, that and sacrificing my son to Gaia to prevent another little consumer from taking flight in the world. I have a feeling my wife would disapprove…*

    Louis

    * I has a day off work yesterday to deal with all things house move/mortgage/estate agent etc. My ability to tolerate humanity dipped to nearly record lows, and then, as a bonus, my son, who I am potty training, decided that shitting on Dadda would be a good idea. As any good parent knows one is not permitted to react with “Oh you filthy fucking little bastard get the fuck off me you bilious little fucking shitmachine” and subsequent punt across the room. The sublimation of this profound desire has caused moodiness and general resentment of said son to erupt in a cavalcade of bitterness and a determination to turn up to his first school disco wearing a Borat style man thong, glitter and fuck all else.

    (Some things may have been exaggerated or en-florid-ised for comedy purposes. This disclaimer is binding on all readers in perpetuity so tough.)

  65. says

    Also, I have my own haters hashtag on twitter as I just found out, how cool is that!
    I better go back to tuning those nylon strings, seems a far more worthy cause than debating dimwits on the internet.

  66. says

    Nick Gotts #70:

    Syriza in Greece came from almost nowhere to being the official opposition by fighting neoliberalism.

    Ugh, yeah, it’s easy to forget about them because they simply got fucked over by an idiosyncratic system that gives a party fifty extra seats for getting the most votes.

    Much like how the left in Canada gets fucked over by an idiosyncratic system where we only award seats by riding and you only need the most votes to win one. The popular vote (which, conveniently, would have returned massive combined leftist majorities in the past three elections rather than two large Conservative minorities and one majority) means fuck all really.

    It’s amazing how system idiosyncracies can fuck with parties — mostly, it seems, leftist ones. Sometimes it almost feels like the leftist parties are deliberately screwing up and not understanding the damn electoral system they’re working within -coughCanada-. And then of course the media are unfairly dismissive to leftists (real leftists, not “centre-left” neoliberal liars like the Democrats and Liberals and Labour and PS and PASOK and every other damn fucking lying “left” neoliberal party out there) and bow to the right when you turn off MSNBC.

  67. strange gods before me ॐ says

    And on NPR: “Mom in chief Michelle Obama takes a stand”. Really, NPR?

    Well, they didn’t make up that “mom in chief” phrasing. She used it.

  68. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Am I the only one that had a brief moment of “Was it Mabus?” when they heard about this

    A man opened fire inside a venue during a victory speech by Quebec’s new premier late Tuesday night, killing one person, police said.
    A second person suffered non-life threatening injuries in the attack, said Montreal police Commander Ian LaFreniere.
    “We cannot rule out the fact that the premier was the target at this event,” he said.
    Pauline Marois, who will be the first female premier of Quebec after her center-left party won provincial elections, was rushed off stage when gunfire rang out around midnight Tuesday, police said. Marois was not harmed.
    “We know the suspect had more than one gun when it happened,” Lafreniere said. “Then he went out and set a fire at the door. The fire was extinguished by some police officers who were there.”

  69. carlie says

    sg – true, I did see that after I wrote that comment (when I finally found a transcript). But I’m still annoyed that’s what they decided to lead with. I surveyed several news sites and they were the only ones who even mentioned it.

  70. Socio-gen, something something... says

    I am so furious right now about Jen being hounded into leaving. Just desk-pounding, dishes-breaking furious. Who again is being divisive? Who is bullying and silencing the opposition? I can’t imagine why some people would rather not associate with them. /sarcasm

    *looks at the pig*

    Mmmmm…bacon.
    — —
    From the previous thread:

    portia
    Is the kid one who visits your home, or someone who’s just rude when he sees you on the street? The latter is usually not worth the time. Often I’d just give them a big smile and friendly wave and respond with something juvenile like, “And may head lice ruin your school year.”

    For the former — I’ve had to deal with a few, both related to me and neighbors/friends of my kids. Usually I did a few warnings, along the lines of “We don’t have a lot of rules here, but number one is that we speak to and treat other people with kindness.” The first time, I’d explain what they’re doing and why it breaks Rule 1. After that, it was “Remember Rule 1? Here’s the door.”

    If 14-ish* warnings didn’t work, then it was “I’m sorry but until you can folow our rules, you’ll have to find someone else to play with.” Neighbor kids/friends were easier because..well, I didn’t have to allow them in. The two related to me…they were harder because they were rude to everyone, including their parents who didn’t like it, but did nothing about it.

    *Depended on the kid, the type of offense (being rude, using slurs vs. hitting; the more egregious, the fewer the warnings), and how often I saw them. 14 warnings could be over a couple weeks or a couple months.

    SallyStrange

    PADDLE. One paddles a canoe. You know, with paddles?

    I’ve been canoeing since I was 10 or so. Last summer, I was doing a day trip with the whole family and one of my niece’s friends ended up in my canoe. I took the rear seat, he took the front (leaving my daughter in the middle, despite the fact that she’s an accomplished canoer and kayaker). I asked if he’d ever been canoeing before. He said, completely deadpan (and I quote),

    “No, but I watch deep-sea fishing on TV.”

    I still have no idea if that was a joke or what; there was no indication that he was anything but serious. He definitely didn’t know what he was doing — seemed to think we were crewing. He was paddling furiously for the finish line while I was trying to keep us on a semi-straight line, which meant we were actually lurching down the river. After an hour, I made everyone take a break and put him in with my brother with a warning to keep him away from the oars.

    New thread:

    Setar
    I do not understand neoliberal economic policies at all. Mostly because no one can explain them in a way that my brain can understand. This is true, however, of almost anything with the phrase “economics” attached. Maybe if there was a graphic novel or maybe interpretive dance…

    New England Bob
    Hi Bob!! *friendly wave*

    *mumbles* May head lice ruin your school year.

    Louis
    You…gave up a Ferrari?! Don’t you know women are replaceable? You could have gotten a Ferrari and a new model Beloved! Now, sure the Child was a boy, so valuable, but…

    and then, as a bonus, my son, who I am potty training, decided that shitting on Dadda would be a good idea.

    …um, or not.

    A Ferrari, Louis! I fear you are just too-softhearted for your own good.

  71. Louis says

    Socio-gen,

    A Ferrari, Louis! I fear you are just too-softhearted for your own good.

    I know right?

    Owning one of those would have made my Peepee MASSIVE and improved the quality of my Man FeeFees (Important) no end. That’s, like, totally more important than a woman’s life or something.

    {Sigh}

    Curse me for being infected with this terrible case of manginity induced feminism, for I shall never sample the delights of Italian super car induced Peepee enlargement.

    Louis

  72. says

    Oh. I really probably should do this already.

    Stop fucking leaving, “Oh, I’m so sorry for you Jen, but I understand,” posts on her thread.

    Buck the fuck up and fight those bastards. Call them out. Shame them. Read them until they’re ragged.

    Josh, I have no idea if you saw my post about it, but JohntheOther resides in Vancouver, and this past Saturday I and some pro-choice demonstrators ran into him and one of his MRA buddies putting up posters at a construction site.

    We ripped the fucking things down. He complained about free speech, I gave our standard objection, and then had the pleasure of him engaging me directly…not like it was hard to just stay on point, and eventually just flip him off.

    He called 911, and that seemed to annoy the cops enough that they told him and his buddy to stop re-postering if we were taking them down, because obviously the community doesn’t like the message JtO trying to spread. He ran to A Voice for Men and cried there about how we came brandishing box cutters (a box cutter, that was being used to remove propaganda only) and who knows what else.

    I was going to go on a hike later today, but I read earlier that apparently they’ve gotten a red stamp and are just stamping the feminist posters that the pro-choice demonstrators I hang out with put up in response to his crap with “Approved by AVoiceForMen.com”. I’m going to be taking some red felt to that today. Later. Need sleep now.

  73. says

    sgbm #65:

    It’s not my credibility that’s at stake here, kind sir.

    I know you’re going to claim otherwise, but your saying this tells me you don’t get that you’re not some isolated, perfectly objective observer and everyone else knows this. You do have a conflict of interests in this case and you are giving reason to believe that the conflict of interests is a factor when you go as far out of the way as you have to discredit ‘Tis.

    You are not helping your case by slamming it on the table in front of everyone who mentions ‘Tis for what he is known for. Drop it.

  74. John Morales says

    Setár, to what conflict of interest do you refer, and how do you set aside the fact that facts are facts?

    (You should argue ॐ’s case on its merits rather than his putative motives)

  75. Beatrice says

    You are not helping your case by slamming it on the table in front of everyone who mentions ‘Tis for what he is known for. Drop it.

    I can see where this can bug SGBM. What ‘Tis has gotten known for seems to be largely plagiarised.

    Now, if SGBM started mentioning this when Tis got mentioned in some other context, you would have a better reason to tell him to drop it. But he didn’t.

  76. Beatrice says

    I will stop using the same word twice in the same(argh!) sentence when it’s unnecessary. I will stop using the same word twice in a sentence when it’s unnecessary. I will stop using the same word twice in a sentence when it’s unnecessary.

  77. Beatrice says

    Dhorvath,

    I do it all the time and, while I’m probably the only one to notice, it annoys me terribly.

  78. blf says

    The mildly deranged penguin pokes her head in and wonders when the brain-removal testing started… The last edition was all about escaped woodchucks and smiley spiders; this edition is all about ignoring the baby bacon — bacon! BACON! — in favour of horses (high). Geesh, Horses are the allies of peas and should be climbed-down-from and thrown into the nearest back hole.

    I don’t know if she re-obtained the woodchuck or not, but the cider-brewing has been declared done.

    Obviously.

    It dissolved the fermenting vat, slithered across the floor and through the wall, and escaped into the outdoors. The cider does seem to be like the older Daleks and unable to climb, as it appears to have been stopped by a low wall.

    Temporarily.

    There is now a tunnel entrance from which vast clouds of choking fumes are pouring. The mildly deranged penguin isn’t concerned, pointing out it (a) Didn’t harm any of the cheese, and (b) Is now digging the cellar it will mature in.

    Surprisingly, the Curiosity rover hasn’t sent back any sightings of the cider’s tunneling fumes.

  79. Dhorvath, OM says

    Is this how horses originated? Some mad accident involving a temporal distortion around a black hole which was generated by sentient cider?

  80. says

    StephenT:

    Caine – you’re comment re. my photos got me an extra 700 hits over a three days. And some interesting emails from some of the visitors to my site who want to go to Antarctica cheaply. (I have lots of penguin photos). Thank you.

    You’re welcome! Your photos speak for themselves.

    John - shut. the. fuck. up. Jesus Christ.

  81. dianne says

    Yeah, the situation with Jen sucks. People, bleh!

    (Looking around wildly to try to change the subject): So, Caine, how are the ratlets?

  82. Louis says

    Dianne,

    (Looking around wildly to try to change the subject)

    Well I did try with my Peepee and Ethical Bacon Pigs..by which I mean as separate topics not…anyway…soooooo how about them {Insert Local Team}. Oh fuck… I’ve inserted a local team AGAIN. That’s innuendo repetition, this could destroy the universe or something.

    I think ratlets are a good choice!

    Mind you, the other day you said something about the Pharma industry and research and I missed it (I only caught a half quote and didn’t get a chance to trace down the original) so we could talk about that and I could pretend I don’t think my industry is so very imperfect!

    Louis

  83. dianne says

    Sorry, decided my last comment came out sounding dismissive of Jen’s problems. I didn’t mean to but apologize for having done so anyway. These little FTBullies dysenteric amoebas are rare but they poison everything.

  84. dianne says

    Mind you, the other day you said something about the Pharma industry and research and I missed it (I only caught a half quote and didn’t get a chance to trace down the original) so we could talk about that and I could pretend I don’t think my industry is so very imperfect!

    You aren’t very good at pretending that. I mean that as a complement: You’re good at seeing things realistically and telling it like it is.

    What I said was that pharma research is usually oriented only towards very practical end stage research and is not so good for discovery of new biology. For example, as Gileill brought up, pharma will develop a vaccine against HPV, but zur Hausen’s findings on HPV causing cervical cancer (among others) would never have come out of pharma: They just aren’t interested in that level of high risk, long term benefit research. Therefore, you need organizations like the DKFZ and the NIH to fund and perform the basic research that gives pharma its ideas on how to develop drugs.

    This was in response to a Republican idiot on another blog who was insisting that government shouldn’t be involved in research, apparently without any idea what cutting off government funding of research would mean.

  85. says

    FossilFishy:

    The wonder that radiates from babies is not all encompassing; it’s strictly line-of-sight. It’s not all powerful; those who can only see the banality of humanity, and I’ve got to admit that 6.6+ billion is pretty banal, are completely unaffected. But for everyone else it’s magical.

    Yeah, thanks for letting me know that because teh pweshus baybeez don’t make me melt into a puddle of goo, I can only see “the banality of humanity.” It wasn’t enough that I’ve already gotten a shit-ton of that in life due to being female and therefore shunning my Wombanly Duty. Now excuse me while I go find a vomit bucket.

    Josh: What you said, both about the DNC and about the fuckstains who drove Jen away. But I agree that she should be given all the time she needs.

    Tony:

    I
    Don’t
    Understand
    People
    Like
    This.

    They’re shitbags. Dishonest, weaselly, reactionary shitbags. What more is there to understand?

    Hyperdeath: The buzzing insect also claims to be a sex educator. I truly fear to know what she teaches girls about sexual assault and harassment.

  86. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    Happy Monday to all.

    except for that needless apology.

    Sorry about that.

    Thanks for the chicken stock tips

    Chicken stock? What is the reporting codes? Which exchange does it trade on?

    It means nothing since I have met none of you in meatspace, but, just in case . . . .

    But I have hopes, Bro Og.

    I have this fear, though, that when/if I meet any of you in meatspace, you will realized that I am not the nice, balanced, with it, coherent person who comes across here.

    and does Ogvorbis have anything to do with open-source audio codecs?

    No. That would be Og Vorbis.

    What a cesspool this thread is. So many people who need help. I’ll not be back.

    Sounds good. Bye.

    Please disabuse me of this notion . . . .

    Well, I think it is a wonderful idea. And, considering how often I am correct about anything, that alone should give you pause.

    Sadly, being a bacon lover most of the entries have the various oinks and squees defined as “I would make a delicious sandwich, please kill me, it is my honour to be eaten by you. Also, have you considered slow roasted belly of me with an onion and apple jam?”.

    Odd. When I hear “Oink“, all I hear is, “Eat me!”

    Who again is being divisive? Who is bullying and silencing the opposition?

    The very small, but oh, so vocal, anti-human rights wing of atheism seems to have adopted some of the tactics of political and religious conservatives. A GOP politician can go out and, in a speech, accuse a Democrat of absolutely anything and there is no problem. The big news networks can repeat these lies forever (how many times have you heard “Al Gore invented the internet” this year? I’ve heard it twice today on the radio!) and that is fine. But, let a progressive politician speak the truth and call hir opponent a liar, all hell breaks loose and we hear about the uncivil, mean, heartless, vicious attack for six months.

    The same happens in the religious community. Attacks questioning the motives, emotional health, mental health, financial backing, morality, etc. of anyone who dares to point out that the religious right is lying through their oh-so-bright teeth about abortion. I’m saddened that this has happened within atheism but am not surprised.

    A+ stands as a perfect example of the tactics of the anti-human-rights wing of atheism. A+ was a statement, by some atheists, pointing out that some of us (me included (though I have nothing to do with any of this other than as an observer and cheerleader (I am far too far down near the bottom to have any real say about anything))) see an inherent link between atheism and the fight against the patriarchy (for me, based on the ideal of human rights for all and the religious roots of patriarchy). And a shitstorm of accusations appear claiming that A+ is an attempt to usurp the entire atheism idea, that it is a divise attempt to limit atheism to only one set of ideas, and that the entire thing is an attempt by PZed and RW to take over everything.

    So, way to go. Those of you in the I-don’t-care-about-human-rights-and- no-other-atheist-should-be-allowed- to-either wing of atheism are silencing some good voices (hopefully not permanently). And yet when I, or another commenter, point out that gendered insults, for example, are an attempt to silence women, I am called an idiot or worse. Well, congratulations. Your work to silence those who disagree, those who view atheism as a way to remove the toxic influence that religion has on society, those who think that a patriarchical atheism would be just as bad as patriarchical religion, seems to be working.

    Is that really what you want?

  87. carlie says

    That awkward moment when eharmony matches you to your ex. Priceless.

    *spittake*

    Oh, that can’t be a fun way to end the day. Did you screencap it for posterity?

  88. carlie says

    I have this fear, though, that when/if I meet any of you in meatspace, you will realized that I am not the nice, balanced, with it, coherent person who comes across here.

    You realize we all have the same worry, right?

  89. Minnie The Finn, qui devient bientôt vierge says

    Hi all,

    thought I’d drop in for a nice chat with you all, but I’m pretty much wordless with all the recent shit o_O

    Nice to see blf and hear that the MDP is doing fine, though!

  90. says

    Did you screencap it for posterity?

    The way this works I suspect she will see me presented as a match as well. Should make for a few fun texts. We are rather relaxed when it comes to this stuff. I was also matched to a work collegue the other day, now that was more of a concern!

  91. says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter:

    Of all the Internet haters I’ve encountered, only three actually concern me, and WoolyBumblebee’s one of them. (The other two are Dennis Markuze, and the person behind that “Elevatorgate” blog and Twitter account.) It’s possible that she just uses the Internet to vent frustration, but I dread to think what might happen if she were to exhibit such behavior in a professional capacity.

  92. says

    FossilFishy:

    The wonder that radiates from babies is not all encompassing; it’s strictly line-of-sight. It’s not all powerful; those who can only see the banality of humanity, and I’ve got to admit that 6.6+ billion is pretty banal, are completely unaffected. But for everyone else it’s magical.

    This is a very high level of fail, something I’m not accustomed to seeing from you.

    I’m not only childfree, I’m one of those people who does not like children and that goes triple for da baybees. Ugh. They hold zero attraction for me – they’re noisy, they smell bad and they leak. Yes, I understand other people love them to death and think they are the greatest things ever.

    That said, it’s pretty shitty for you to demean and dismiss everyone who doesn’t go gooey over a baby. I could say all you’re doing with your magickal baby is adding to world population and plopping yet more banality into the pool. That’s not very nice, is it? That’s why I refrain from saying such shit, because, yes, I know people who have them think they are all that and a bag a magickal chips.

    You might exercise a similar restraint in the future when it comes to saying nasty ass things about those who don’t share your love of babies.

  93. says

    Dianne:

    (Looking around wildly to try to change the subject): So, Caine, how are the ratlets?

    Everyone is doing just fine. They’re driving me a bit crazy, but that’s part and parcel of having ratties. I can hardly wait until next week when Rubin’s girls go in to be spayed, then I can finally stop trying to keep them separated.

    Speaking of, they are all awake now and expecting breakfast, so I best go play cook/waitress.

  94. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    You realize we all have the same worry, right?

    No. I pretty much assumed it was just me.

  95. broboxley OT says

    Josh, your words on the dnc, thank you. Someone let me know when they discus extra judicial killing and how they are planning to address the current collective punishment issues both abroad and at home.

    Setar, most models of economics depend on several underlying dependencies, faith, trust and profit. If the spending required to make social justice better can be trusted to be returned in the future and a profit gleaned the money would be spent. Here in the states Wind Power is not trusted as anything but a liberal hustle of the taxpayers dime. Never mind that there are profitable windfarms in Iowa and in PZ’s home town where they are almost self sustaining powerwise. All people hear about is the Obama fundraiser whose emails from the whitehouse demanding his damn money for Solyndra who went bankrupt after paying off all of the hustlers.

  96. Louis says

    Dianne,

    Ahhhhhhhhh!

    I can see how that Republican person was Profoundly and Annoyingly Wrong on the Internet. Private/public science is all useful. They might have different goals sometimes, but one hand washes the other. I might have this utopian vision of how I’d like science to be, but the reality is that in our current situation, we can’t abandon either corporate science or government science or every other kind of science. We do too damn little science and fund it far too poorly for us as a species not to take every damned penny we can.

    In other words I agree with you.

    There now follows a minor rant/disquisition on matters Pharma inspired by your post. Everyone, yourself included, feel free to look away from this piece of self indulgent shit!

    There are a good few higher risk projects* and more basic science research projects out there, but yes, they are largely geared towards a specific goal, not usually simple curiosity driven(which I think is where the rubber meets the road). Screening methods (like precisely how to do and deconvolute high throughput screening) and a good deal of basic research on computational chemistry or pharmacology or health economics and epidemiology (for example) is done in the industry, but…BUT…they have very particular business motivations. Not that that invalidates the basic-ness of the science, it doesn’t, but the industry is, rightly so, very, very selective about where it risks its cash on basic research. And equally selective about what it publishes…{grumble}.

    A good example I’m intimately familiar with for a variety of reasons is simply “chemical scale up” or process research and development. It’s a tragically under-lauded aspect of the industry and chemistry in general. Making something on a milligram scale is (obviously) hugely different from making it on a multi tonne scale. Even simple things like….ohhhhh off the top of my head….the thermodynamics of dissolving a simple amine starting material in dichloromethane is serious beans on scale. (Think surface area/volume ratios, heat loss, mixing etc). A chemical reaction that made your target in the med chem lab is very, very likely to be totally unsuitable on scale. And whilst there are a goodly number of academic medicinal chemists, there are comparatively few academic process chemists. For the obvious reasons (have you any idea how much this shit costs!? ;-) The first day in a previous job I had as a process R+D chemist I spent over £200000 on chemicals. Nice!)

    A good amount of academic synthetic organic chemistry is concerned with the development of new chemical reactions and/or the exploration of “chemical space” around those reactions, and rightly so, it’s very cool. That’s what process R+D is, the development of novel reactions, and especially the development of novel applications/conditions of known reactions, it requires a really in-depth understanding of organic chemistry to able to do well. It’s proper chemistry! It’s not simply the application of known work in a trivial (perhaps merely “technological”) fashion, it’s the careful elucidation of what chemistry can be done in every bit the same way that the same area of academic chemistry is.

    If I had one criticism of all chemistry, academic, industrial etc, it’s that we are not yet detailed enough about precisely what we do. There’s efforts to change this, and things like Organic Syntheses (a journal which asks for actual verification and repetition of the claimed work by an independent scientist as opposed to merely peer review) have been around forever (ish!), but in my opinion, it’s just not enough!

    I remember a tale told about Big Name Chemist in the USA who used to require his PhD students and postdocs to take samples from the bulk of their product material and submit those for elemental analysis (in this case used as a measure of purity) rather than simply taking a small amount of the (already somewhat purified) bulk material and re-purifying it umpteen times until it was good enough to pass a specific journal’s elemental analysis requirements. The tale was told in a manner of outrage as if this requirement was out of order, I always thought this was a GOOD IDEA! Very laborious, but at least when you read a paper from this person’s lab you knew the yield quoted was for material that was at least of the purity expected for the journal’s EA standards.

    So that’s a trivial, and perhaps esoteric quibble. Look up academic lab safety and the Sanji case. That’s no joking matter. Acceptance of laxity in a chemistry lab can lead to death. (Can you tell I’m poacher turned gamekeeper? Former cowboy chemist with massive spurs turned sheriff?) We need rigorously adhered to detail in chemical preparations, better, cheaper, freer journals some understanding of….

    …fuck…ranting. Erm…sorry!

    Louis

    * Given the genuine “riskiness” of drug discovery as a process anyway, I’d argue the industry is not risk averse at all, but very selective about which risks it is willing to take. Things that are likely to bring in the big bucks if they pay off, no matter how risky, are things that get invested in. CNS drugs are still being invested in despite being on pretty much the highest shelf of the difficulty of drug development/discovery process. That said, CNS drug research is on the decline IIRC, many companies are focussing on “core competencies” (read: shit we might actually get paid for and isn’t any where near as hard), but some companies are also taking up the challenge as the big companies move out of the way. Sorry to digress massively, it’s a complicated picture, but if I was to make a statement about my impression of the whole industry right now, I’d agree that yes, it has got a lot more risk averse in scientific terms, and somewhat more risk averse in business terms, and this is disastrous for science, scientists and most importantly patients.**

    ** Yes. Patients. Oh sorry, I forgot, as a Big Pharma Shill I’m not in it for the patients. I’m in it for the huge pay offs, the cushy job, the glory, and the sex parties. Always the sex parties. And, obviously, the nefarious ends of the Global Conspiracy Of Reptiloid Space Aliens From Space (Who Are Totally Not Jews).

  97. Beatrice says

    Ogvorbis,

    No. I pretty much assumed it was just me.

    It’s not. I feel lucky that I’m in Europe and very unlikely to ever meet anyone from here, because I’m convinced it would result in me not wanting to show myself here ever again out of embarrassment.

  98. Louis says

    Carlie, #113,

    You realize we all have the same worry, right?

    I don’t have that worry.

    I worry that, despite my best efforts, if and when I meet people in meatspace they will discover that I’m not the obscene, knob joke obsessed, deliberately self defeating, drunk, incoherent lunatic I have taken very careful pains to present myself as.*

    I cannot abide authority, and would hate to be thought of as one! ;-)

    Louis

    * Luckily, in addition to being Quite Serious and Reasonably Clever, I am also an obscene, knob joke obsessed, deliberately self defeating, drunk, incoherent lunatic. It’s part of me natural charm.**

    ** Actual charm may not exist!

  99. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter. I’m sorry you didn’t like it, sincerely. It was not intended to belittle those who choose not to have children, or even those who actively dislike children for that matter. Other people’s life choices and preferences are none of my business.

    Prior to the birth of my daughter I loathed and feared children in equal measure. It was supposed to be about how gobsmacked I was about that transformation in me, and just how amazing I found it that strangers would respond to my daughter in the way that they did. It had never occurred to me that that could happen. Not that that is any excuse. And to be clear: I don’t think that I’m better in any way than people who choose not to breed, nor do I think that everyone would have the same experience I had.

    Reading it again I can see exactly why you took it the way you did and I apologise without reservation for any distress it caused. I fucked it up and I thank you for making me aware of it.

  100. McC2lhu saw what you did there. says

    Louis:

    You forgot to mention that you sometimes masquerade as a periodic table that makes knob jokes. Your asides will be the bell-end of me!

  101. blf says

    Speaking of, [the proto forty-foot high rats] are all awake now and expecting breakfast…

    Some possibly-sentient recently brewed cider seems to be tunneling in yer direction. Does that help?

  102. dianne says

    That awkward moment when eharmony matches you to your ex. Priceless.

    That’s probably not as unlikely as it may at first sound. After all, you got together with your ex for some reason and you’re probably at least superficially a good match with her (or him–I have the idea that you’re straight but just realized that I have no solid grounds for this belief). Still…as you said, priceless.

  103. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    You might exercise a similar restraint in the future when it comes to saying nasty ass things about those who don’t share your love of babies.

    I’m a mother and I don’t share that love of babies. I don’t like other people’s kids usually and refuse to have anything to do with other people’s babies. No I don’t want to hold it. No I don’t think they are precious. It’s nice for you they are but damn leave me out of it. Not even when Little One was a baby*. Any wonder I had was quickly eclipsed by no sleep, no time, all mess. There’s no shame in not being all full of wonder regarding your new squirming human shit bucket you brought home. It’s hard work, especially alone, and fuck people trying to shame for not loving babies. FFS, that’s harmful. It’s harmful to parents, especially mothers and people who just don’t like babies.

    —-
    *I shouldn’t have to say it but I know I do. This doesn’t mean I don’t love Little One and I certainly loved and wanted her when she was a baby. But wonder? Nope. Not even happiness at time. Yes, I loved her but it was all work, all alone and un-fucking-pleasant. I now can’t stand babies, am glad Little One has grown past that and never want another. Try and shame me, fuckers.

  104. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Caine, just saw your comment too. Please see #125 above. Can’t for the life of me think how I missed that implication other than it was a copy/paste from a couple of years ago when I was drunk on the newness of it all and seriously lacking sleep. But that’s no excuse, I should have re-read it more carefully and thought a little harder before posting.

    I’m sorry. Full fucking stop.

  105. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Oh, damn. Not trying to pile on, I just took a long time writing and reading and didn’t see your 125. Sorry.

  106. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    No worries JAL. Your insight is welcome too. I don’t feel piled on.

  107. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    Hi, all.

    I am departing AVP at 1426EDT, arriving SAC at 1012PDT, heading for an assignment as an SEC2 at the North Pass fire in Mendocino NF, not far from Covelo, CA. I should be gone two weeks.

  108. dianne says

    I now can’t stand babies, am glad Little One has grown past that and never want another. Try and shame me, fuckers.

    Not a chance. No shame in that at all.

    Personally, I like babies. In particular, I like other people’s babies that I can give back to them when I’m done playing with them. But I was anxious for the entire time from when I knew I was pregnant to when the small one could talk and tell me what she wanted. This was partly anxiety about the possibility that she might have florid autism, given the amount of asperger’s in my family and my (and my partner’s) age when she was born. Her talking was quite the relief. In hindsight, maybe I should have worried more about the fact that there is dyslexia on both sides of her family…

  109. says

    Ogvorbis
    Take care, have a safe trip and a good return

    Louis

    A good example I’m intimately familiar with for a variety of reasons is simply “chemical scale up” or process research and development. It’s a tragically under-lauded aspect of the industry and chemistry in general. Making something on a milligram scale is (obviously) hugely different from making it on a multi tonne scale.

    You’d love to have a chat with Mr.
    Well, you wouldn’t, because you wouldn’t understand each other, but in theory you could swap stories until Scotland is out of whisky.

  110. Minnie The Finn, qui devient bientôt vierge says

    Louis: the more I listen to you, to more I imagine you as Brendan Behan in my head (that Belushi pic may have had something to do with it, too).

    So, you’re coming to Stockholm next year for the European Atheists Congress, right? =) And Beatrice too? So we can be mutually embarrassed by our (mostly imagined) meat space shortcomings?

    In other news: fucketyfuck. SOMEONE (hint: not me) left the car stereo on yesterday, so the battery’s dead. Landlord may or may not have time sometime later tonight to come over with jump start cables. Until then, we’re stranded, alone in the big scary woods.

  111. Louis says

    Giliell,

    I can speak a reasonable amount of German. And with some practise, a useful amount of German. It’s only lack of use that prevents me from being good!

    :-)

    Louis

  112. dianne says

    Can I bring up US party politics on this thread? The pig didn’t say no…Is it my imagination, or did Rmoney have a negative bounce from the convention? Perhaps people didn’t like the racism and jingoism displayed. One can hope anyway.

  113. Louis says

    Minnie,

    1) Ooooooooh Stockholm. I like Stockholm.

    2) Brendan Behan, sadly although I have whispers of Celtish blood, I am Insufficiently Celtish to warrant the honour! Good likeness in places though. Looks a bit sober to me… ;-)

    Louis

  114. dianne says

    It’s only lack of use that prevents me from being good!

    Na, denn sollen wir uben. Ich bin keine Mutterspracherin (und, wie man sehen kann, nicht sogar flussig), aber andere Leute hier sind. Oder ist es nicht in Ordnung?

  115. blf says

    Louis, that wasn’t a Deutsch textbook you used, it was a certain famous English-Hungarian phrasebook…

  116. Louis says

    Dianne,

    You can try and apply pressure to me if you like, not sure what good it’ll do you! I’m one of those weirdos who does pretty well when I’ve been in the country for a day or so, so this might not be the best venue. I won’t claim my written German matches my reading/speaking though. It doesn’t!

    Louis

    P.S. Blf, my hovercraft is full of eels…

    P.P.S. Dianne, I never knew the word “Mutterspracherin” before, or at least I don’t remember it. It’s GORGEOUS. Words like this are one of the many reasons I love German.

  117. dianne says

    Louis: Practically anything I say auf Deutsch may be wrong. However, I believe that the practice of inventing words and declaring them part of the language has extended from English to German and so the answer to whether “Mutterspracherin” is a word or not may be “It is now.” My favorite word, which I’m pretty sure is legit, is “ausflippen.” It’s a trennbar verb, which makes it even more wonderful. Man flippt aus. Frau auch ab und zu.

  118. says

    Also von mir aus gerne.
    Als nächstes bitte alle laut dreimal sagen “Fischers Fritze fischt frische Fische, frische Fische fischt Fischers Fritz”

    Louis
    OK, in that case I would probably be the one who needs the whisky :)
    His speciality is figuring out how you can exactly analyze the different components of a substance because he does quality control.
    He’s the one who gets shouted at if the upscaling didn’t work well and the amount of X is nowhere near the specification. Because it’s his fault he got the resulst he does :)

    2) Brendan Behan, sadly although I have whispers of Celtish blood, I am Insufficiently Celtish to warrant the honour!

    I’m a Celt from the tribe of the Mediomatrics!
    (And Hungarian Gypsie, and Russian-German, and French Protestants…But fortunately that’s all so far back in teh past mostly that I enjoy the full native German privilege unless I’m mistaken for Turkish in which case I get called a whore)

  119. blf says

    Is it my imagination, or did Rmoney have a negative bounce from the convention?

    To-date, all I’ve read is essentially no immediate “bounce”, and uncertain in the medium- and longer-terms.

    A synopsis of a fairly good opinion / analysis piece in The Grauniad:

    Did Mitt Romney get a bounce in the polls out of the RNC?

    From limited, mixed data, we can say that Romney may have moved up a little. But we won’t know until after Obama’s DNC

    … Some solid articles have been written on the existence of such a bounce, but let me add five key points to the bounce discussion.

    1. There’s no uniformity on whether Romney has received a bounce

    2. The pollsters with the biggest jumps are mere reversions to the mean

    3. Mitt Romney could conceivably be leading if the election were held right now

    4. Romney’s bump means nothing without knowing what Obama’s may be

    5. Overall, we have very little data

    Conclusion

    Right now, it’s probably too early to judge whether or not Romney has got any bounce from the RNC, and whether that bounce will actually last. Both CNN and Public Policy Polling have shown Romney making strides in favorability. …

    At this point, however, any bounce seems minimal. We need to wait a few weeks to understand better where the candidates stand as they go into the final two months of the contest.

  120. portia says

    Brace yourselves, there’s a herd of teal deer barreling through the Lounge!

    FossilFishy

    I’d rather show my child that the rules for their behaviour are important enough to apply them universally than keeping the peace with a neighbour.

    That is my strong preference. I think what I’ve settled on is ending play time when he behaves in a way that is unacceptable to me. It’s a little passive aggressive, but it’s the best I’ve got. If the Littlest One complains or asks why he can’t play with neighbor kid any more that day, then I will explain that neighbor boy wasn’t being a good example of how we treat other people, so it was time for him to go home.

    SallyStrange

    Re: your cute knee bouncing song.

    Thanks for this, my go-to song was a little bit sexist:

    This is the way the lady rides, tah-trot-tah-trot-tah-trot [little bounces]
    This is the way the gentlemen rides, a-gallop-a-trot- a-gallop-a-trot- a-gallop-a-trot [bigger bounces]
    This is the way the farmer rides, hobble-dee-ho- hobble-dee-ho- hobble-dee-ho [slow, side-to-side swings]
    This is the way the cowboy rides, giddee-UP-let’s-go! [throw baby in the air on UP]

    Audley

    Portia,
    I think you have it perfectly backwards– the GOP were the ones to bring up “social issues” in the first place. The focus on stripping women of their rights, fighting against marriage equality to the point of changing state constitutions, attacking science in the classroom, etc didn’t occur until after the Tea Baggers started taking office 2 years ago and it had nothing to do with the Democrats’ economic or social policies. Perhaps the Republican establishment doesn’t want to focus on the “social issues”, but that’s what they’re stuck with at the moment because they’ve let their party become a runaway train.

    I wasn’t very clear. I agree with your analysis completely. It seems to me that the GOP, having opened the political Pandora’s box, (with their vociferous attacks on women’s rights) are now running away from what they have wrought.

    Tony

    Ok, does anyone have glasses to break?
    Maybe a curio cabinet?
    Perhaps an abandoned building needs to be demolished?
    They fucking drove Jen off.
    I’m so fucking mad right now, I’m crying.
    I cannot believe that shit has happened.
    I cannot believe the misogynist, anti-feminist crowd has pushed her that far.
    These are the motherfuckers that we’re supposed to want to keep around?
    These are the people that we’re supposed to be worried about alienating?
    She did NOT deserve the treatment she received.
    She deserves applause.
    She deserves support.
    She deserves recognition for her hard work.
    I haven’t been this pissed off in a L.O.N.G. time.

    First, I have this box of old dishes, will that do?
    Second, WHAT THE FUCK. I completely agree with you.

    I’m a bit late to this (that’s what I get for sleeping) but goddamn. I wish I could understand why anyone would think this is ok. Wait, scratch that. If I’m wishing things, I wish they’d all go off to an island (not a nice island) and just live out their existences making each other miserable. What the fucking fuck fuck.

    Louis

    I appreciate your eloquent explanation of the difficulty of being all-warrior all-the –time.

    Giliell

    Hmm, has it ever occured to her that bodily autonomy means that nobody has the right to bully her into an abortion either?

    Ugh, frakin’ exactly. She moaned about how “society” has convinced women that it’s “just a bunch of tissue.” And therefore women don’t know they’re having an abortion? I don’t know, it was all so contrary to reality.

    Do they know it’s wrong and they’re doing it to provoke you? Ignore the bad behaviour and give them some positive attention.

    I’m not sure whether he wants to provoke me. It had occurred to me that I don’t think he gets as much attention as he could at his house, as both his parents work third shift (i.e. midnight to 8:00 am). I have tried positive attention, and am rebuffed. But I suppose I can always lay it on thicker : )

    Are they doing it becaus they think they can get away with it? I have used The Look successfully with that.

    Ooooh, the Look. I hadn’t thought of the Look. It works well with Littlest, that’s a good tactic. Thank you for the validation and moral support. I always do feel like a bad grown-up when I don’t like children. (Not their fault, and all that). Yesterday the solution to rudeness during video game time at our house was “OK, everyone’s going outside now.” I was very flustered. But I think I will be better prepared in the future, thanks to you and FossilFishy.

    Socio-Gen

    It is an invasive species of Rude Kid. That is to say, he visits our home. I like your approach, if I have to be that direct, I will. I do not like Littlest playing with this kid in part for the reasons I’ve mentioned, but also because he’s a terrible influence in other ways. Littlest is six, and last week the two of them came into the house from playing outside asking for a lighter. When they were adamantly denied it, Littlest insisted “But we have this fire…” I about had a heart attack, Littlest lost several privileges, but SO still thinks it’s a good idea to encourage the friendship. I am loath to want them to not play together because he is one of the only kids in the immediate neighborhood, but I wonder where the line is, ya know? Yesterday Littlest came inside crying his eyes out because this kid had ran off and refused to play with him after the video games were revoked.

    Ogvorbis

    Chicken stock? What is the reporting codes? Which exchange does it trade on?

    NYSE, of course.

    And stay safe. Omnis cedo domus, as they say.

  121. says

    P.P.S. Dianne, I never knew the word “Mutterspracherin” before, or at least I don’t remember it. It’s GORGEOUS. Words like this are one of the many reasons I love German.

    You’re missing an L:
    Muttersprachlerin/Muttersprachler

    My favorite word, which I’m pretty sure is legit, is “ausflippen.” It’s a trennbar verb, which makes it even more wonderful. Man flippt aus. Frau auch ab und zu.

    Yep, to freak out (but it can be more positive like “Ich flippe aus vor Glück). Phrasal/prepositional verbs have the tendency to have a combined infinitive (ausflippen, weggehen) which is then split for the finite forms.
    I used to teach English as a foreign language. I always had lots of compassion for my students. Das ist nicht nur meine Meinung. Meiner Meinung nach ist Deutsch die schwerste Sprache die ich je gelernt habe. Mein Mann is anderer Meinung, aber seine Meinung zählt nicht. ;)

  122. says

    dianne,

    Romney’s “bounce” took him from 51% of Americans viewing him unfavorably to a whopping 47% of Americans viewing him negatively. Of course, some fraction of the people who don’t like him think that he’s not batshit anti-American enough for the Republican Party…

  123. chigau (違わない) says

    Google translate is quite insistent that “Fischers Fritze” translates to “Peter Piper” :)

  124. dianne says

    Meiner Meinung nach ist Deutsch die schwerste Sprache die ich je gelernt habe.

    Meine auch. Aber ich muss sagen dass ich kann nur die zwei Sprache, Englisch und Deutsche und vielleicht ist das keine gute Auswahl. Putongua seht sogar schwere aus, aber ich habe es nicht wirklich versucht.

    Also I thought I was missing a letter from Muttersprachlerin, but couldn’t quite place it…a clear demonstration of why no one, especially Louis, should put any reliance on the correctness of anything I say in German.

  125. dianne says

    Romney’s “bounce” took him from 51% of Americans viewing him unfavorably to a whopping 47% of Americans viewing him negatively.

    That could be enough. All he has to do is convince over 50% of the people not blocked from voting by voter suppression laws to vote for him. But 538’s predictions have the probability of a Romney win going down.

  126. says

    Putongua seht sogar schwere aus, aber ich habe es nicht wirklich versucht.

    Yeah, I’ve given up on Mandarin as well. And not just because those I meet who speak it tend to turn suicidal.

    I’ve tuned these nylon strings like 10 times now in the space of 3 or so hours, and they are still ridiculously out of tune. Any guitar buffs here have any tips?

  127. dianne says

    Yeah, I’ve given up on Mandarin as well. And not just because those I meet who speak it tend to turn suicidal.

    If it helps any, I know a number of non-suicidal Mandarin speakers. But I’m hopeless with tone and languages using non-Roman characters scare me. I’ve learned enough to be able to ask a Mandarin speaking only patient where there pain is in a dire emergency and have pretty much stopped there.

  128. says

    But I’m hopeless with tone and languages using non-Roman characters scare me

    I have all those CDs right, but I just can’t get my head(or voicebox) around the 4 different tones for the same word business. I’m all for kids learning it early in school, but it’s come a bit late for me.

  129. says

    What specifically is your guitar tuning issue?

    I changed my metal or whatever you call it strings to nylon today, because the former make my fingertips go numb and then I can’t palpate blood vessels on my patients(no, seriously). But these normal tension nylon strings dont seem to hold their tuning at all, every 15 minutes they are completely out of whack again. Now I know that a little bit of that is to be expected with nylon, but this is just ridiculous.

  130. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    It’s two am here, I should be asleep. As someone who studied classical guitar performance in uni I’ll say that Chas’ suggestion could work but be cautious. Grab them in the middle, use four fingers and pull up steadily. The danger is that of you yank or pull too hard you can bend the wire wrapped strings ruining their intonation. If you do it a couple of times and it doesn’t help they’re slipping at one end or the other. A quick fix at the bridge end is to melt the end of the unwrapped strings with a lighter. And with that, to bed. Joe’ll sort you I’m sure.

  131. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Louis:
    It may interest you to know that in a Previous Lab™ of mine one of the biggest projects was a grant from Big Well-Known Pharmaceutical Company™ to determine the process for how to scale up the synthesis of a compound to the ton-scale from the gram-scale. The lab had figured out the gram-scale synthesis >10 years ago.

    But now there is Pharmaceutical Commercial Relevance™ in the compound, so the company approached the PI and said, “Can you give us the method for a ton-scale synthesis?” PI replied, “Yes. But it’ll take me 5 years and cost $1 million.” The company’s response: “Will you take a check?”

    Googling tells me that the compound, duly having been certified as USP-grade and a match for the natural product, will be hitting the market in the next 18 months.

    Oh, and the PI graduated 5 Ph.D. students with theses pertaining to a segment of the process.

  132. says

    rorschach,

    I’m doing a little research, and it looks like you’re screwed for a week, until you’ve stretched out the strings enough. I assume the guitar keeps going flat rather than sharp?

  133. says

    and it looks like you’re screwed for a week, until you’ve stretched out the strings enough.

    Oh, there is actual science on this? Interesting!

    I assume the guitar keeps going flat rather than sharp?

    That seems to be the case, yes. Clearly, I’m a total noob. Bedtime now.

  134. Louis says

    Esteleth,

    Ooooh cool! That does interest me.

    Also…$1million? That is fucking CHEAP! No wonder they leapt on it.

    Louis

  135. says

    First day of school here. Thing Two is in third grade now, which means she goes to a classroom Upstairs, With The Big Kids. So she doesn’t want to take her (expensive) Kiki bento to school anymore, or anything with characters on it, and picked all plain things because she is So Grown Up Now. lolsob

  136. Louis says

    Esteleth,

    Oops, sorry, forgot to add, if it’s a natural product was it a full synthesis or a semi synthesis from a “broth” or bacterial culture of some kind?

    I’ve seen a lot of scale up of natural products derived from broths/semi syntheses from academia. I’m horribly curious now and want details!

    {I know, I know!}

    Louis

  137. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Louis, it’s what is referred to as “half bio-synthetic.” That is, bacterial spit-out is extensively chemically modified. And most (but not all) of those modifications are done by engineered enzymes.

    And the natural product is already on the market – has been for some time. But there have been a series of incidents that led the FDA to go to the relevant pharma companies and say, “WTF YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS.” Hence pharma companies approaching the PI who synthesized the compound at gram-scale ages ago and asking for a scale-up.

  138. says

    Damn, it’s just too bad when the bright moment of the day gets ruined by knowing too much.
    I was just getting a smile on my face when I saw that an embroidery company I sometimes shop at has new “when I grow up” designs with things pretty evenly matched and a boy/girl version for each one of it, until I noticed that they’re all very, very pale and blonde.
    So, I think the thing of the day will be mashed potatoes. Nobody can ruin them.

  139. carlie says

    Oh, travel tip: go throw a clothespin or chip clip in whatever suitcase you usually use to travel with, right now. Doesn’t matter if you only go anywhere once every few years or so. Just go do it now while you’re thinking about it. Because then, the one time you end up in a hotel room whether you expected to or not, you won’t be cursing the fact that you forgot to throw one in at midnight when the streetlamp is streaming directly into your eyes from the slight gap between the stupid hotel curtains that won’t quite close right.

  140. StevoR says

    There once was a polly called Ryan,
    Who couldn’t, really *couldn’t* stop lyin’.
    He got picked by Mitt
    But that choice just proved shit
    And now in the polls they’ll be dyin’! ;-)

  141. StevoR says

    There once was an actor called Eastwood
    A great speaker? Republicans sure thought that he sure would
    They got him a chair
    But he spoke to the air
    And got his boss looking the least good!

  142. cicely (Something Dark and Humorously Mordanted) says

    TLC!
    *hug*

    What a cesspool this thread is. So many people who need help. I’ll not be back.

    And you’ll not be missed.

    Am I the only one that had a brief moment of “Was it Mabus?” when they heard about [the Canadian incident]

    Nope. I went there, too.

    Geesh, Horses are the allies of peas and should be climbed-down-from and thrown into the nearest back hole.

    With Extreme Prejudice.

    And napalm.

    Is this how horses originated? Some mad accident involving a temporal distortion around a black hole which was generated by sentient cider?

    I suppose it’s possible…if we allow as how the black hole in question was spawned in the Deepest Pits of Hell.

    I have this fear, though, that when/if I meet any of you in meatspace, you will realized that I am not the nice, balanced, with it, coherent person who comes across here.

    ‘Salright. I’m not sure I come across as a nice, balanced, etc. etc. etc. Especially the “coherent” part. And also the “balanced” part.

    Or, indeed, whether I resemble that comment in any way….
    Squirrel!!!

    (I suppose you could poll those who’ve met me, but I’d appreciate your doing it out of my hearing/reading, in the interests of saving my fragile ego from the possible impact.)

    Minnie!
    *hug*
    -

  143. says

    Portia:
    You’re right, the GOP did open a Pandora’s Box that they can no longer close and a huge part of the problem is that Mitt Romney is their candidate. He can run on his scummy capitalist creds, but he can’t run on his record of Conservative social issues because he’s been so flip floppy.

    I think things would be different if, say, Santorum grabbed the nom.

  144. says

    I just made two full casserole dishes of my world-famous sausage and cheese stuffing, plus like a quart of white gravy for it. I’m good for lunch for the next week, plus side dishes and the occasional breakfast… sausage and cheese stuffing goes goood mixed into a couple of scrambled eggs.

  145. cicely (Something Dark and Humorously Mordanted) says

    Well, is Jen going to any upcoming event to which one of Our Operatives will also be going to go. To. And who could/would be willing/able to allow us to send cards/messages of encouragement/beers to be handed over to Jen at said event?

    Ogvorbis—be safe.

    Is it my imagination, or did Rmoney have a negative bounce from the convention?

    Opinions seem to be all over the place, but even his rahrah guys agree that the bounce was, at best, small…then explain why this doesn’t mean anything.
    -

  146. Socio-gen, something something... says

    rorschach

    That awkward moment when eharmony matches you to your ex. Priceless.

    *snicker*

    JAL

    *I shouldn’t have to say it but I know I do. This doesn’t mean I don’t love Little One and I certainly loved and wanted her when she was a baby. But wonder? Nope. Not even happiness at time. Yes, I loved her but it was all work, all alone and un-fucking-pleasant.

    I hate the fact that you (and I) have to qualify our statements, because anyone who doesn’t gush about the wonderfulness of parenting is automatically seen as having not wanted/not loved their child(ren). When the truth is, they’re just being honest about the fact that it is hard, thankless work and there’s little damned wonder.

    I love my kids, and there were many great moments — like when they did or discovered something cool, but ohmylanta, most of of it just sucked. I read Adrienne Rich’s Of Woman Born for one of my classes, and boy, did that resonate. Especially where she explains about forcing her kids to be more independent because she resented the time they took from what she wanted/needed to be doing. I actually enjoy being with and around my kids now, as adults, which was not true when they were young.

    Ogvorbis
    Be safe!

    portia
    That’s tough. I was lucky that we had a lot of kids in the around us. (At one point, the other parents and I named them the Lost Boys because they loved hanging out in this teeny patch of scrub and trees behind my house building forts and play Nerf Wars.

    One nice benefit of being direct with the kids was that after awhile, their long-term friends would start policing each other and any newbies. “Hey, you can’t say/do that in [name]‘s house, otherwise you have to leave!” (I got a kick out of it when EldestSon and Company was around 17-18 and a new guy said something nasty. All eight of them looked at the guy and said, “Dude! Rule One is be nice!”

    Safety issues though — I’m with you. I wouldn’t want to encourage the friendship at all.

  147. says

    So I’m sitting here at my computer a little while ago when I notice some sort of green lump on my bed. Closer inspection revealed it to be a little frog.
    He’s outside now. I have no idea what the fuck.

  148. dianne says

    Re childrearing and whether it is enjoyable or not: IMHO, it’s a lot easier to enjoy having children and spending time with your children if there are multiple caretakers around. Sometimes you and the kid(s) will simply be fed up with each other. It is not the nature of humans to live in harmony 100% of the time. Additionally, some things that are necessary (or at least helpful) for successful child rearing will not come easily to you, no matter how wonderful a parent you are. In these situations, life is just easier if you have someone to toss the kid to for a while. That someone could be a partner, parent, sibling, babysitter, professional nursery school teacher, neighbor, etc. Just as long as you both get a break and the small one is safe.

    Again, no surprise, but this is a lot easier when you’re wealthy enough to afford to hire ancillary help. Life, as usual, is unfair. No, that’s not right. People are unfair. We could make high quality respite care available to everyone, but don’t. Why? Simply too greedy to pay for it. And too dumb to realize that happy, well cared for, well educated children help everyone in the end.

  149. says

    Especially where she explains about forcing her kids to be more independent because she resented the time they took from what she wanted/needed to be doing.

    I was browsing a pattern website yesterday that’s run by a fundie housewife, and she had written something along the lines of how before she got married and had kids she was a seamstress doing custom work but that she stopped while her children were small because she didn’t want to “rob” her family of time she could be spending with them. And I was like WTF! Why can’t we value the things we do without it having to “rob” anyone of anything? Why is it literally seen as theft for a woman to do something that doesn’t revolve around others?

    It is not the nature of humans to live in harmony 100% of the time.

    Also too, this whole “one or two parents, their one or two kids, in a box, by themselves” thing is pretty newfangled. If you ask me, it was a case of “divide and conquer” on women to convince them that their highest calling was to remain shut up in their husband’s houses attending only their own children. (That it arrived around the time women were organizing to agitate for ridiculously uppity things like suffrage? Does not strike me as coincidence.)

  150. opposablethumbs says

    Ogvorbis,

    No. I pretty much assumed it was just me

    .

    Me too me too me too (and I’m in Yerp so most of you can’t see me waaaaay over here. Phew)

    I’m a mother and I don’t share that love of babies. I don’t like other people’s kids usually and refuse to have anything to do with other people’s babies. No I don’t want to hold it. No I don’t think they are precious. It’s nice for you they are but damn leave me out of it. Not even when Little One was a baby*. Any wonder I had was quickly eclipsed by no sleep, no time, all mess. There’s no shame in not being all full of wonder regarding your new squirming human shit bucket you brought home. It’s hard work, especially alone, and fuck people trying to shame for not loving babies. FFS, that’s harmful. It’s harmful to parents, especially mothers and people who just don’t like babies.

    —-
    *I shouldn’t have to say it but I know I do. This doesn’t mean I don’t love Little One and I certainly loved and wanted her when she was a baby. But wonder? Nope. Not even happiness at time. Yes, I loved her but it was all work, all alone and un-fucking-pleasant. I now can’t stand babies, am glad Little One has grown past that and never want another. Try and shame me, fuckers.

    JAL#130 QFFT your whole post. I have two spawn, but am emphatically not a baby person or kidlet person. I am very fond of the Spawn, aware of at least some of their shortcomings, have always done my best to look out for them (possibly a bit too much), have good times with them (better and better the older they get), try to teach them things, and they claim that I am a parent of whom they approve … but I am not a “natural” spawn-wrangler and in the cold hard light of day would recognise that I should arguably never have been a parent.

  151. opposablethumbs says

    (It’s not the Spawn’s fault, they have very little choice but to approve of me – they only have one other parent, so not much wiggle room there really)

  152. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Edwin Kagin re-affirms his asshole status with a snotty, whiny post about A+. Unnecessary mockery based on bullshit assumptions included free of charge. What a useless wanker.

  153. says

    I loooovvvvvve babies and toddlers but kids, in general, from about 7 years up to … uh I don’t know yet, are pretty hard for me to like. Including my own, yeah. I love them fiercely, duh, but love doesn’t always mean like.

    Now that I’ve raised two-year-olds, and then subsequently raised older children, I completely understand what my mother meant when she told me that if she could choose to do anything at all for the rest of her life she would work with/care for two-year-olds.

  154. says

    dianne

    IMHO, it’s a lot easier to enjoy having children and spending time with your children if there are multiple caretakers around. Sometimes you and the kid(s) will simply be fed up with each other.

    geez, don’t tell me. Some nights it’s just oh fuck I can’t take this anymore and I’m going to kill one of them. Tonight was horrible and I was at my wits’ end and shit and then, well, I did it anyway because, what choice do I have? Things become remarkably better when Mr.’s at home and can take over.

  155. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    The trolls are out in force on Jen’s goodbye post.

    It is like they’re trying to prove her point or something.

  156. says

    @ Socio-gen, something something…:

    I do not understand neoliberal economic policies at all. Mostly because no one can explain them in a way that my brain can understand. This is true, however, of almost anything with the phrase “economics” attached. Maybe if there was a graphic novel or maybe interpretive dance…

    Your brain is working just fine. Please consider the possibility that neoliberal economic policies do not make sense to you is because they do not make sense. At all.

  157. consciousness razor says

    rorschach:

    But these normal tension nylon strings dont seem to hold their tuning at all, every 15 minutes they are completely out of whack again. Now I know that a little bit of that is to be expected with nylon, but this is just ridiculous.

    It’s not just that they’re nylon, but that you changed them all at the same time. Assuming you didn’t damage the guitar by releasing all that tension too quickly (because that can happen), it’ll take a while for them to break in. Maybe a couple days or a week, like Improbable Joe said.

    In the future, when you replace the strings as they wear down, it’s best to do it one or two at a time. Move on to the next when the others will stay in tune. That won’t take quite as long because some of the tension is being maintained on the guitar body by the remaining strings. You’ll probably need to replace the bass strings more often, so it’s not like you usually need to do the whole set anyway (except in this case, when switching from steel to nylon, obviously).

    It’s possible your knots are also slipping. That might be part of it rather than just stretching, so I’d check that pretty closely. The steel strings might have worn the bridge quite a bit (depends on what kind of guitar it is), so you could need a pretty hefty knot (or a bead or spacer) to keep the knot from getting pulled through it. That may not matter as much if the knot’s wrapping around it, instead of the end the string simply going through a hole.

  158. says

    So… babies.

    I’m not someone who is wild about kids. I don’t universally like them and I find that I react to them the same way I react to adults– there are some that I “click” with and others that I’d rather not spend any time with.

    Take, for instance, my niece and nephew. I didn’t want to hold my niece when she was a newborn and I’ve found that I just flat out don’t like her as she’s gotten a little older (she’s 4 now). It’s not her fault, she’s a pretty good kid and I know that she loves me, but I just find her to be grating. My 8 week old nephew is a different kettle of fish, though. For being so young, he’s awfully engaged and wants to look at everything (not that he can see much at that age, but he likes shiny things and bright windows) and I just find him fascinating. *shrugs* We’ll see if I still like him in a few years, I guess.

    Whatevs. I’m the cool aunt regardless– I make chocolate treats for everyone and buy MLP toys amd push my niece far too high on swings.
    ;)

  159. dianne says

    The thing about babies and young kids is that they don’t have any real choice but to put up with their parents. That puts a certain burden on the parents to, well, be the adults and not take things out on the kids. NOT easy at times. Therefore, it is, IMHO, vitally important not to become a parent until you’re ready to take on that role, even when it gets hard. Something that people intent on talking teenagers (especially) out of abortions by talking about the wonders of baybeez don’t seem to understand.

  160. says

    Let’s talk about fetuses instead of behbehs. Specifically DarkFetus!

    Actually, I’ve got a question. My doc wants me to do “kick counts”– once a day, make sure she’s kicking 5 times in a half an hour– and I’ve gotta ask: what the hell is the point? I know how much she’s kicking, they know how much she’s kicking and it’s not like it wouldn’t be weird if she all of a sudden stopped, you know?

    It just seems like doing kick counts could potentially drive an anxious woman up the wall while being pretty useless for the rest of us.

  161. says

    Josh,
    That’s my take on it, too. For the most part, my docs have been really good*, but this just seems ridiculous.

    *For instance: there’s “advice” floating around out there that pregnant women should only sleep on their left side (there’s no evidence that any sleeping position is harmful). My doc said that was “asinine”. :D

  162. opposablethumbs says

    @diane #202 yes, this!!!!!

    It’s a massive undertaking – in terms of responsibility, in terms of hours and physical labour and emotional labour. This is also why I’ve never regretted having abortions when I had an IUD failure (twice) when I was younger. Being a parent even when a bit older was hard enough; being a wanted child is hard enough!

    “Every mother a willing mother, every child a wanted child”

  163. says

    Audley
    Hm, what? I mean, I’m very not sure anymore about the nature of certain movements. I thought they were the fetus but now sometimes my bowel just feels the same.
    Anything that’s out of order should show up on the CTG (doctors claim they can’t feel them but I swear mine tried to escape that thing)
    #1 would dance to Bruce Springsteen.

  164. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    I wouldn’t expect DF to kick round the clock in any case – fetuses sleep, after all.

  165. ChasCPeterson says

    I’ve got a question. My doc wants me to do “kick counts”– once a day, make sure she’s kicking 5 times in a half an hour– and I’ve gotta ask: what the hell is the point?

    Why didn’t you ask the person who knows the answer to your question, i.e. your physician?

    That sounds stupid and pointless Audley. I’d ignore it.

    Why don’t you quit practicing internet medicine without a license?

    A rate was specified. Obviously what the doc wants to know is not ‘kicking or no?’ but rather ‘how much kicking’? Would it surprise you to learn, for example, that 4 times an hour might mean something clinically different than 20 times an hourat the same stage of gestation?

    Ask the fucking physician!

  166. lpetrich says

    On the subject of Michelle Obama, I’m reminded of how livid the right wing got when Bill Clinton described himself and Hillary as “two for the price of one”. They howled that Hillary would be “co-president”, something that they claimed was absolutely illegitimate.

    Also, that picture of a pig reminded me of a time when I posted a response to a creationist over at FRDB. He claimed that elephant trunks are unevolvable, and I inlined pictures of a pig and a tapir to show what intermediates can look like.

  167. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    lpetrich, it is like their idea of the First Lady is stuck in the 1900s. If they want a FLOTUS that doesn’t do squat, then they need to have a few words with Edith Wilson and Eleanor Roosevelt, to cite two examples.

  168. Rey Fox says

    I caught a picture of a pregnant bikini pageant the other day (the women were pregnant, not the bikinis), and now after reading these threads, I’m imagining every single exposed abdomen squirming around with fetal movement.

    Moving on…

    There needs to be a secular version of “godspeed”, because damned…

    Well, there’s Goodspeed.

    TW: Violence and Nicolas Cage

  169. cicely (Something Dark and Humorously Mordanted) says

    broboxley: So? I mean, eleven is considered marriageable in some places! n And besides, she must have wanted it, or she couldn’t even have got pregnant! Be reasonable, man!
    </red-hot, acidic sarcasm>
    -

  170. Amblebury, I doesn't afraid of NOTHING! says

    I’ve got a question. My doc wants me to do “kick counts”– once a day, make sure she’s kicking 5 times in a half an hour– and I’ve gotta ask: what the hell is the point?

    Lining her up for the rugby team?

    Oh. Wrong country. Sorry.

  171. Socio-gen, something something... says

    kristinc

    Why is it literally seen as theft for a woman to do something that doesn’t revolve around others?

    Exactly! This idea that mothers must sacrifice their entire beings, give up every moment that isn’t spent caring for house and kids — or else be seen as selfish? I never understood it even when I was trying to live up to it. Once I stopped that and felt free to pursue my own interests while also caring for the kids, it was so much better. I think it was healthier for them as well. They didn’t feel they had to meet ridiculous expectations because I had no life besides them.

    When I decided to move to MN, they were (and remain) my biggest cheerleaders because I’d already taught them that my life was important too and, better, they didn’t need me to survive. It was nice, sure, but not required. Other people, however….yikes. I had one person accuse me of abandoning the kids.

    Giliell

    Some nights it’s just oh fuck I can’t take this anymore and I’m going to kill one of them

    Oh I felt this so often, particularly during the years when all three were under 10 and then when all three were teens.

    Audley
    I think kick counts for otherwise healthy moms are the equivalent of telling men to boil water during labor in the olden days — it makes you feel like you’re doing something. Normally, I’ve only ever heard of them being done with high risk moms* and/or where there’s a concern for the baby’s health.

    * I had to do them with YoungerSon and OnlyDaughter because my health issues and worries about the effects of my meds on them.

  172. says

    Would it surprise you to learn, for example, that 4 times an hour might mean something clinically different than 20 times an hourat the same stage of gestation?

    Yep: She’s asleep vs. she’s kickboxing.
    There’s a wonderful invention called CTG. It meassures fetal heartrates. And then there’s something called ultrasound. It allows you to look a them within the womb. And they even have Doppler which allows to meassure bloodflows.
    Now compare “kick-counting” which depends a lot on mother, fetus, place of placenta, yadda yadda.
    Might have been something sensible in the 1960’s, but nowadays?

  173. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Why don’t you quit practicing internet medicine without a license?

    Don’t be silly. Audley knows perfectly well I’m not a doctor and she is perfectly capable of consulting her doctor for doctor-type things. There is zero risk of her mistaking our online banter for medical advice.

  174. dianne says

    My doc wants me to do “kick counts”– once a day, make sure she’s kicking 5 times in a half an hour– and I’ve gotta ask: what the hell is the point?

    My guess (and remember, the critical word here is guess) is that they want something more than a guess about amount of kicking in case of a problem. For example, if you call saying that Darkfetus is kicking less than usual, you can quantify it as used to kick 6 times an hour, now only does 2 rather than saying that she just seems to be kicking less. Is there any point to asking for further clarification from your OB?

  175. Nutmeg says

    *drops a pile of chocolate and hugs and fluffy bunnies into the Thread and scurries back to the lab*

  176. consciousness razor says

    Yep: She’s asleep vs. she’s kickboxing.
    There’s a wonderful invention called CTG. It meassures fetal heartrates. And then there’s something called ultrasound. It allows you to look a them within the womb. And they even have Doppler which allows to meassure bloodflows.
    Now compare “kick-counting” which depends a lot on mother, fetus, place of placenta, yadda yadda.

    I don’t know what exactly it’s measuring, but it’s not like you can do those tests every day to get a general trend. So, because the fetus could be asleep or kickboxing during CTG or ultrasound tests, it’s hard to know what’s likely to be happening any other time. But you could at least try to get a basic picture of some things, knowing the information isn’t going to be totally reliable. Did they say to try it at different times during the day, before or after meals, or something like that?

  177. Richard Austin says

    … Stand ye calm and resolute,
    Like a forest close and mute,
    With folded arms and looks which are
    Weapons of unvanquished war. …

    Rise like Lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable number,
    Shake your chains to earth like dew
    Which in sleep had fallen on you-

    Ye are many. They are few.

  178. says

    But you could at least try to get a basic picture of some things, knowing the information isn’t going to be totally reliable.

    Getting a basic trend seem to be the only thing that makes some kind of sense. But IIRC they get less active in the end anyway so it still seems to be a good way to drive the mum to be nuts.
    We usually talked about CTGs, like, were they very active or were they asleep, that kind of stuff

  179. says

    Dianne,
    Considering that my OB is happy with my progress and I’ve got no worrying symptoms that anything’s wrong, plus I’ve got another appointment next week, I don’t really see the point in rushing off to call the office. I’ll ask for better clarification (beyond we have all pregnant ladies do it) then.

    CR:
    I was told to count when she’s active but that was about it. I’m frustrated because up until now, my care has been all about what works for me and I’ve discussed with the docs and the nurses the amount that she moves (and her cycles and whatnot), so it’s not like I haven’t been paying attention, you know? I just don’t like the answer “well, everyone does it”.

  180. consciousness razor says

    so it’s not like I haven’t been paying attention, you know? I just don’t like the answer “well, everyone does it”.

    Yeah, that’s completely understandable. The doctor’s answer, the way you put it, was total bullshit. I could see why they’d want to encourage everyone to do it (even those without big complications or warning signs, and who seem conscientious and reliable), but that’s only if there’s a good reason for it in the first place.

  181. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    I just don’t like the answer “well, everyone does it”.

    I hate statements like “everyone does it”. I make sure to not use it and get irritated at myself when I do. No, not everyone does it. I didn’t do it. I wasn’t told to do it. Even with my problem during the first four month. I wasn’t high risk or anything, but it wasn’t going very smoothly either.

    Little One has learned hatred of this statement because so many adults give this answer to her questions and she realizes it’s not a real answer. Well, okay I told her that it wasn’t a real answer and then gave a real explanation, but she’s since carried it on.

  182. Richard Austin says

    American Pregnancy Association says it’s about both bonding and establishing a pattern to know when something’s up.

    Being attentive to your baby’s movements will help you notice any significant changes. Setting aside time every day when you know your baby is active to count kicks, swishes, rolls, and jabs may help identify potential problems and could help prevent stillbirth. Though strongly recommended for high risk pregnancies, counting fetal movements beginning at 28 weeks may be beneficial for all pregnancies.

    [...]

    Taking time to do your kick counts will encourage you to rest and bond with your baby. Start by finding a comfortable position during a time when your baby is usually most active. Some moms prefer sitting in a well supported position with their arms holding their bellies. Other moms prefer lying on their left sides, which they find most comfortable and most effective for monitoring their babies. Lying on your left side also allows for the best circulation which could lead to a more active baby.

  183. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Ok, I have a feeling someone is going to pop off a question to where “everyone does it” is a fine answer, but you get what I mean hopefully.

    “Why do birds fly?”
    “They all do it.They’re birds, flying is what they do.”

    “Why do people put up Christmas trees?”
    “Everyone does it.”

    And so on. It’s a common cop out given to children and it irritates the crap out of me.

  184. Richard Austin says

    My problem with “everyone does it” is that it implies peer pressure and nothing else is sufficient justification for an action. That’s a really crappy precedent to set if you want to raise a free-thinking, self-willed individual who at least attempts to make good choices.

  185. says

    Richard:
    Yeah, the lying on your left side bit? Not true– it’s one of those things that “everybody knows” but isn’t supported by any evidence.

    Like I said, I’ve had great care so far and my docs should absolutely know that I’ve bonded with DF and I know her activity patterns. And I resent being told to do something that’s completely pointless, especially since my pregnancy is low risk.

  186. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Sorry, but this “bonding” crap is. . . mostly crap. It’s quite obvious most women “bond” with their children quite well naturally, thank you. I sincerely doubt counting the baby kicking would turn a disengaged woman into mother of the year.

    Audley would know better than I, but it smells like the never-ending woo bullshit constantly churned out regarding pregnancy.

  187. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Not to mention how it sounds like the subtle enforcement of Have No Higher Goal Than Devoting All Your Physical And Mental Time To Baby that’s ubiquitous in the conversation about motherhood.

  188. Richard Austin says

    I wasn’t intending to validate the statements by them, just pointing out the apparent justification.

    I know zilch about pregnancy :)

  189. chigau (違わない) says

    Why do “Name Your Baby” lists always say shit like:
    “Michele: Feminine form of Michael” instead of
    “Michael: Masculine form of Michele”?
    [/rhetorical]

  190. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Probably because the masculine form appeared first?

    Unfortunately, that is itself a problem. Why aren’t there masculine forms of traditionally feminine names? Where is Masculine-Anne and Masculine-Mary?

  191. consciousness razor says

    I am here to attest and affirm that our faith and belief in God is central to the American story and informs the values we’ve expressed in our party’s platform,” Strickland, who chaired the party’s platform committee, read. “In addition, President Obama recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and our party’s platform should as well.”

    Ridiculous. It has always been part of the platform that Cleveland is the capital of Israel. (Indeed, why wouldn’t a platform contain factoids like that?) That’s why Ohio is such an important state in this election, and why this is so shocking coming from Gov. Strickland. He’s clearly forgotten who he’s pandering to.

  192. Nutmeg says

    In today’s Cheerful Lab News™, my critters are not doing what the literature says they should. I blame the literature for being unnecessarily restrictive.

    I’m hoping this is a case of Weird in a Good Way™, not Weird in an Unpublishable Way™.

    I would also really like to be home sleeping (yes, I know it’s 6pm, shut up) and not in the lab right now. Hence the weirdness of this comment.

  193. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Records, chiefly.

    Granted, they’re spotty and in shitty quality for large chunks of history, and tend to ignore women altogether a lot, but yet quite a lot can be gleaned from them.

    And, for the record, Mario is derived from Marius, which is a reference to Mars. It has no relation to Mary.

  194. chigau (違わない) says

    Esteleth
    Yeah. Maybe women didn’t need names, just a certificate of ownership.

  195. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Dammit Wolf Blitzer! The focus of Planned Parenthood is *not* abortion.

  196. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Ok, Piers Morgan:
    STFU.

    “You’re more than just a pretty face.” (to Eva Longoria)
    Really?
    What, are you surprised that she has intelligence? Is that something you consider rare in women?

  197. portia says

    Well the Dems sure weren’t listening when they were told to grow a backbone yesterday. Gross. Just gross. Say, Josh, did you bring the pitchforks? I have a few torches ’round here somewhere.

  198. portia says

    Although, I heard Howard Dean in an interview on NPR earlier. He was saying how great Obama is, etc, etc, blah blah blah. And the interviewer goes “Well then why don’t more people like him?” and I almost cheered when he said “There are a lot of racists.”

  199. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Setár, to what conflict of interest do you refer, and how do you set aside the fact that facts are facts?

    (You should argue ॐ’s case on its merits rather than his putative motives)

    ….what is WRONG with you?

  200. John Morales says

    Azkyroth, thanks for your kind question, but there’s no answer to it.

    (Why do you imagine there’s something wrong with me?)

  201. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    For Fuck’s Sake!!!!!
    Piers:
    STOP fucking worrying about Jerusalem and Israel!
    Are you going to ask everyone you interview?

  202. screechymonkey says

    In case anyone hasn’t had enough of our Harvard Humanist pals, Chris Stedmen just made the mistake of whining to Amanda Marcotte on Twitter because she was mean to Catholicism. That went about as well as you’d expect.

  203. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    That went about as well as you’d expect.

    Oh, he ended up in the custard swimming pool head first?

  204. portia says

    There’s one thing I want to know about tonight’s convention. WHO SHAVED BUBBA’S EYEBROWS AFTER HE PASSED OUT LAST NIGHT? Fess up.

  205. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Yes!
    Bill Clinton just called out the far Right for their hatred of President Obama!

  206. portia says

    The convention week has been a good educational opportunity for almost-12 Not-So-Little one. She was watching a speech with us and suddenly said

    “So. Wait. Women make less?”
    Yep. About 77 cents per dollar a man makes.
    “That’s 23 cents! That’s a LOT!”
    Yes, it really is.

    And then she thought for a while. Hope she stays fired up.

  207. What a Maroon, el papa ateo says

    Yeah, after his speech I wanted to vote for Clinton. I’m sure he wouldn’t disappoint me this time….

    But of the speakers I saw, I was most impressed with Sandra Fluke. I can see why the Rethuglicans didn’t want her to testify. I hope I get the chance to vote for her some day.

  208. screechymonkey says

    Fluke was pretty good for someone who’s never been on that big a stage before. Warren was terrific I thought.

  209. chigau (違わない) says

    We made borscht yesterday, well, day before, now, and didn’t eat it until today.
    Dam’ is it ever good!

  210. PatrickG says

    @ Caine:

    However long the road, and however weary you are, just remember that these days, people beg to virtually adopt your rats.

    /attempt to engender cheer after that PZ thread

  211. PatrickG says

    @ Tony: I really liked that part. I may have read too much in, but I’m fairly sure there was a bit of “Wow, they didn’t even hate me that much, and they tried to impeach me!”

    @ screechymonkey: Yeah, Clinton’s speech was pretty awesome! Re: the Stedman/Marcotte exchange… All I get from my cursory googling is some stuff about hipsters, without much context (also from July). Help a Twitternoob out?

  212. says

    Crossposted because I think it’s a good story that might cheer people up at least a little on the sexism front

    comic author Mark Millar calls out “don’t feed the trolls” organizes legal and social action against sexist racist troll

    Okay, Ron Marz just alerted his followers to this and as I read through all the posts this guy @MisterE2009 made on Twitter I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. He was specifically targeting female writers, artists and comic-journalists with the most horrific abuse ranging from sexual threats to them personally or – in one case – mocking them for being a wheel-chair user.

    As male pros we maybe live in a little bubble. This might go on more than we realise. But we need to clamp down on this shit fast… ethically, if not because many of these pros are personal friends of ours. Comics has the coolest rep with people now. It’s a broad church and much less of a boys club in particular than it was when I was a kid. This kind of thing just gives us a horrible name and we owe it to ourselves as well as the pros concerned to stop it….

    If we make an example of this guy and really come down hard on him legally you’re pretty damn sure idiots will think twice about doing the same in future. It’s not enough to just block him. He can just start up again under a new name. But a very public shaming and a news story in his part of California (with a complete list of his recent tweets to the women concerned) feels appropriate and would be a massive warning shot for others not to copy.

  213. says

    Good morning

    Yay: finally doctors appointment today
    Meh: No meds today, cause the symptoms I’m complaining about should be present, I think.

    And I have the most recent competitor for Giliell’s law: The stupider the commenter, the worse they spell my nym*. Girelli is kind of an achievement

    *I know that offerings to Tpyos happen, but it is quite a pattern.

    ++++
    Parents and children
    Another sentence that is verboten here is “Look at X/ X isn’t allowed to do it either.”
    I hated that. Because it was only allowed to be said by my mum.
    “Why can’t I go/do/have something, X is allowed to go/have/do something” was met with “X is not my child”.
    But if I replied to her “Look at X…” with “X is not your child” I was snarky and it was no argument.

  214. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Parents and children
    Another sentence that is verboten here is “Look at X/ X isn’t allowed to do it either.”
    I hated that. Because it was only allowed to be said by my mum.
    “Why can’t I go/do/have something, X is allowed to go/have/do something” was met with “X is not my child”.
    But if I replied to her “Look at X…” with “X is not your child” I was snarky and it was no argument.

    I think I encountered literally every variation of this double-standard either from my parents or school personnel. It took me a very, very long time to stop being stunned when someone who wasn’t me even got lectured for not following context rules, let alone faced any kind of practical consequences.

  215. says

    Oh, and while we’Re at it “If everybody jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too?” isn’t an argument either. While it’s of course the ad populum fallacy, to point that out doesn’t make your argument magically true. You really need a better reason.
    Duh, if everybody breathed oxygen, would you do it, too?

  216. screechymonkey says

    PatrickG: it starts here. Short version: Marcotte complains about Catholic Church’s priorities, some dude named Joshua Eaton pipes up to whine that this makes him feel despised by Amanda as a religious person, Amanda rips him for prioritizing lies about imaginary beings, then Chris shows up to cry foul. Because, you see, Joshua is actual a liberal Buddhist who doesn’t believe in imaginary beings or heaven but nonetheless felt the need to chime in defensively in support of Catholicism. Amanda was unimpressed by this “gotcha” attempt, and Chris then resorted to his usual “wahhhh, you’re alienating potential allies” shtick.

  217. PatrickG says

    @screechymonkey:

    Thanks for the link, appreciated.

    However, that link just shows up as tweets from a twitter user named riz and Joshua Eaton, who is seriously insulted, but still not the person at hand.

    I’m seriously twitilliterate. Obviously your link showed something else, but I have no idea how to navigate the twitfeed (seriously, I have to log in to follow someone for more than recent tweets?).

    If you want to help me despite my irrational hatred*, please do. Otherwise, disregard. :)

    *No, seriously, Twitter is obviously a sign of the Twitpocalypse. I submit for evidence every major news network that covered the RNC and the DNC, where checking Twitter was more important than, y’know, analysis.

  218. Beatrice says

    Another sentence that is verboten here is “Look at X/ X isn’t allowed to do it either.”
    I hated that. Because it was only allowed to be said by my mum.
    “Why can’t I go/do/have something, X is allowed to go/have/do something” was met with “X is not my child”.
    But if I replied to her “Look at X…” with “X is not your child” I was snarky and it was no argument.

    Your mom must have been from the same school of thought as my mom and gran.

    Just insert “I don’t care what X does” in the place of your “X is not my child”.

    And there was a specific X (let’s call him X0) about whose grades I got asked every time I brought home a grade in elementary school. “Oh, so he had three points more than you” (we both usually got a 5, so it was down to a couple of points of difference)
    That wasn’t healthy.

    Of course, “X0 got a <5 too" never did much when I got a bad grade.

  219. Beatrice says

    And what the hell does Jerusalem have to do with either party’s platform?!

    Does the platform talk about other foreign countries other than those they’re bombing in the context of promising that they’ll keep stop _?_ bombing them?

  220. PatrickG says

    @screechymonkey:

    Ah, I see I failed at reading. I was curious about the Marcotte/Stedman exchange, and indeed, your link referred me to Eaton’s remarks. A cursory google response brings up a blog in which he questioned whether he was a humanist, in 2010.

    The gleeful internet troll in me, however, notes this in his latest (in 2012) post (emphasis mine):

    the general idea that people in creative or social service jobs should work for the love of what their doing rather than (not in addition to) decent pay and benefits.

    Yes, I’m just that shallow. Anyway, please read my previous comment as looking for how to get from your link to the Marcotte/Stedman exchange… again, I’m not conversant with Twitter, and again, if you don’t want to do my work for me, I can try to piece it together through what Twitter calls a UI for non-registered users.

  221. says

    Thanks all for the guitar tips. Went to get new strings at the music shop today, see how they go.

    As to babies kicking, it’s news to me that there is a number of kicks per hour that a baby has to maintain to somehow signal good health to the outside world. What usually happens is that women present concerned that “baby is kicking less”, not that “baby has fallen below 10 kicks per hour”.

  222. blf says

    Kicking babies? Is this some new version of gridiron? Using ‘em as hockey pucks seems to work, and of course they’re great for distracting the bull during a bullfight or at the rodeo, but aren’t they a bit too heavy, fragile, and squishy to kick?

  223. Beatrice says

    That fucking woman at the unemployment bureau laughed at me. She fucking laughed at me when I called with a question.

    I was trying to find fucking loopholes so that I could work for that pittance they give for professional training (employer pays you nothing and you get a miserable sum from the unemployment bureau). I don’t have a fucking job and I want to work nearly for free and she finds it funny that I’m desperate for that.

    Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

    And fuck the whole damn place. They’re useless, but I applied because of that training thing which I now can’t get.

  224. StevoR says

    @242. Improbable Joe

    So why the fuck are we supposed to vote for Democrats again?

    Because the alternative is so much worse.

  225. StevoR says

    @256.Audley Z. Darkheart: My name is Legion, for we are many

    Tony, Be thankful you’re not watching the PBS coverage. Mayor Castro was grilled by the presenters (Gwen Ifel, David Brooks, etc) because apparently Dems can’t be “big tent” if they don’t include more “prolife”* voices. What the ever lovin’ fuck?
    *I hate that fucking term.

    So don’t use it then.

    Call ‘em the Coathanger lobby instead which is what they are.

  226. StevoR says

    @235. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    Ok, I have a feeling someone is going to pop off a question to where “everyone does it” is a fine answer, but you get what I mean hopefully.
    “Why do birds fly?”
    “They all do it.They’re birds, flying is what they do.”

    Tell that to the penguins, emus and kiwis! (As in, actual Kiwi birds not the nickname for New Zealanders / Aotearoans.)

    ‘Course becoming flightless didn’t work out so well for the Dodo but still.

  227. blf says

    Penguins fly. The BBC caught the sneaky buggers flapping off to the tropics for the winter on film a few Aprils ago. (The mildly deranged penguin is still annoyed that the secret is now out.)

     ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━

    Whilst a bit UK-centric, still useful, How to tell when a new minister is lying to you:

    … Shuffling coalition ministers is like rearranging chips on a plate. This week we’ll see the new ministers make their first public statements in post. But how do we know if they’re telling us the truth? Here are some political “tells” and what they signify:

    Starting a sentence with “Look …”

    This is a technique perfected by the lying git Blair. …

    The U-turn double-bluff

    In politics, changing your mind because of compelling new evidence is an inexcusable weakness. …

    The listening game

    If a policy proves unpopular, the minister will announce a “listening exercise”. It gives the impression that the government is keen to consult the public before proceeding. Actually, it allows them to park the policy for a bit, commission a positive report from their mates in the private sector and have another go next year. What it means: they’re lying to you.

    First comment adds an important point: the first give away is [the politican is] speaking.

  228. says

    Packet from Germany just arrived with all my old photos from the last 40 years. I bought this very nifty photo and negative scanner the other day, so now I’m going to spend all night digitalising/saving my old photographs! yay!!

  229. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Beatrice:
    Thank you!
    I am clueless as well about the inclusion of Jerusalem.

  230. says

    So, I got things pushed up my nose and shoved down my throat and the result was “Yes, you’re right, your mucosa is red and swollen, you can’t breathe through your nostrils, bugger if I know why”.
    So, I got some spray with cortisone, let’s hope it helps or they want to scan the nether regions of my head.

    beatrice
    Well, that didn’t work for my mum because there was usually noone better than me. Instead it went “you got a 13? (A-) Why didn’t you get a 15? (A+)” If I got angry it was just a joke, can’t you take a joke? Gosh you’re so easily offended, what’s wrong with you?

    +++
    So, Stedman is being an ass again, surprise, surprise.

  231. Beatrice says

    Giliell,

    If I got angry it was just a joke, can’t you take a joke? Gosh you’re so easily offended, what’s wrong with you?

    So you’ve met my dad too?
    The world really is small.

  232. blf says

    The “Jerusalem is the capital of Israel” plank has been, as far as I know, in both mafia’s platforms for ages. (The official USA position — and indeed that of almost every country and international organization, including the UN — is “Not unless it’s negotiated” (or similar), see the Pffft! of All Knowledge‘s summary (which, amazingly, is not marked as controversial).) I assume the reason that statement has been present is due to pressure from assorted pro-Israeli groups and interests, which often appear to exert disproportionate influence on USAlien politicians / policies.

  233. StevoR says

    @a Previous lounge thread # 4865JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness – 30 August 2012 at 1:37 am

    .. Another instance: My step dad was walking Little One home from school. She saw a skin head tatted up, swastikas, 1488, etc. She asked him what that means. He explained racism. She asked him what that meant. She having having trouble getting it since it’s the exact opposite of what we say. So Step Dad points at his skin says “They think this [skin color], means more than this [points at his head].” She says “Oh, so they aren’t smart.” XD

    For a second there I thought it was the skinhead she was asking and who was explaining! Yikes!

    Then I realised you were meaning the Stepdad being asked and explaining – much safer.

    Also “1488” huh? What’s with that? Numerals surely wrong for it to a year of the Beer Hall Putsch or Hitler’s taking power or anything like that related historically. Some sorta code for something?

  234. carlie says

    Clinton gave a good, good speech. A-maz-ing. I’d forgotten what it’s like to watch a master orator.

  235. blf says

    Also “1488″ huh? … Some sorta code for something?

    Yes, from the Pffft! of All Knowledge:

    The Fourteen Words is a phrase used predominantly by white nationalists. It most commonly refers to a 14-word slogan: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White Children.” …
    White nationalists sometimes combine the number 14 with 88, as in “14/88″ or “1488”. The 8s stand for the eighth letter of the alphabet (H), with ‘HH’ standing for “Heil Hitler”.

  236. StevoR says

    @303. blf :

    The “Jerusalem is the capital of Israel” plank has been, as far as I know, in both mafia’s platforms for ages.

    Three questions for you about that :

    1. And is that bad somehow and,if so, why.. ? Isn’t it just the reality?

    2. Don’t you think Israelis have the right to decide what their own national capital is and get the rest of the world to respect their wishes?

    3. Would you rather Jerusalem was divided again as it was before 1967 and similar to how Cold War Berlin was?

    Don’t want to argue this issue here, Topic for another thread really. Just want you to consider those questions seriously please.

  237. McC2lhu saw what you did there. says

    They should have all just agreed the capital of Israel is ‘I’. No one bleeds or gets blisters.

  238. Beatrice says

    Is every other country with problems included in their platforms? Then what the hell makes Jerusalem so special?

  239. carlie says

    Is every other country with problems included in their platforms? Then what the hell makes Jerusalem so special?

    JESUS. Of course.

  240. carlie says

    Except Jesus.

    Jesus is the only answer you’ll ever need. He is the way, the truth, and the life, after all. Plus it’s all about super apocalyptic vengeance-seeking Jesus, so that makes it even more important.

  241. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    I’d bet that Jerusalem is one of Jesus’ least favorite cities, just based on his last visit.
     
     

     

    Capernaum, on the other hand, is a city a Savior could get used to.

  242. broboxley OT says

    Michael was an Archangel, Michele is the French form of Michael which was adopted as feminine,
    carrion

  243. Beatrice says

    I looked lovely in 1987! Blond hair, big blue eyes… a very cute toddler.
    (And then I grew up)

  244. carlie says

    Everybody did.

    There is a picture that exists of me in 1985, in which I am wearing enormous plastic-frame glasses and a matching sweater/skirt combo that is fluorescent neon dark pink, with bright yellow circles and neon blue zigzag shapes all over it. Also, I am holding my spiffy Thompson Chain Reference NIV Bible, because the picture was taken at church camp.

  245. carlie says

    By 1987, I was wearing pegged jeans and overly large neon shirts and had my hair permed and Aqua Netted within an inch of its life.

  246. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    ahh yes. 1987

    Mohawk, leather jacket, combat boots, ripped jeans and probably a t-shirt from The Dead Kennedys, Black Flag or maybe DRI.

    Mr. Upper Middle Class wannabe punk rocker.

    oy

  247. blf says

    I looked crap in 1987.

    Coprolites are useful.

    Oh, um, sorry, I thought you said you looked at crap…

    Photography hadn’t been invented — well, actually, it had been, but sank with the rest of Atlantis — back in c.1987 BCE, so there are no records of what I looked like. Which is probably just as well. I can only hand so many screaming groupie hoardes at a time. (Even if they all run away at FtL speeds.)

  248. says

    Minor political rant here…

    I’m fucking tired of people telling me “Vote for Democrats because the Republicans are worse” on the same day that the Democrats CHANGED THEIR OWN PARTY PLATFORM BECAUSE REPUBLICANS COMPLAINED!!!! So once again, we get evidence that our choices are Republicans gleefully screwing us over, or Democrats caving in to Republicans and “regretfully” screwing us over. If someone crashes their car into me and kills me, it doesn’t do me any good if the driver did it intentionally or the passenger grabbed the wheel and caused the crash. I’m still dead! What does it matter if it is Romney proudly signing away Social Security and Medicare and then lighting off fireworks on the White House lawn, or Obama signing it away and saying it was the best deal he could make under the circumstances while looking kind of sorry about it?

  249. dianne says

    Instead it went “you got a 13? (A-) Why didn’t you get a 15? (A+)” If I got angry it was just a joke, can’t you take a joke?

    My father used to do that sort of thing to me. He tried it with my daughter the other day and she unloaded on him. I has a happy.

  250. ChasCPeterson says

    I dressed exactly the same in 1987 as I did in 1974 and 2000. And, with the exception of more khakis and fewer jeans, 2012.

  251. broboxley OT says

    Im with Chas, dressed the same since late 60’s thru today. Only difference is when I moved to the tropics I traded levis for cargo shorts

  252. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Anyone better versed in all things DNA want to give me a rundown on the implications of this on the whole Junk DNA / Creationist complaints.

    he deepest look into the human genome so far shows it to be a richer, messier and more intriguing place than was believed just a decade ago, scientists said Wednesday.

    While the findings underscore the challenges of tackling complex diseases, they also offer scientists new terrain to unearth better treatments.

    The new insight is the product of Encode, or Encyclopedia of DNA Elements, a vast, multiyear project that aims to pin down the workings of the human genome in unprecedented detail.

    Encode succeeded the Human Genome Project, which identified the 20,000 genes that underpin the blueprint of human biology. But scientists discovered that those 20,000 genes constituted less than 2% of the human genome. The task of Encode was to explore the remaining 98%—the so-called junk DNA—that lies between those genes and was thought to be a biological desert.

    That desert, it turns out, is teeming with action. Almost 80% of the genome is biochemically active, a finding that surprised scientists.

    In addition, large stretches of DNA that appeared to serve no functional purpose in fact contain about 400,000 regulators, known as enhancers, that help activate or silence genes, even though they sit far from the genes themselves.

  253. says

    PatrickG: best I can advise is go to http://www.twitter.com/amandamarcotte and scroll down to the relevant time frame (about 7 hours ago as I type this). You can usually click on any given tweet to see the context (tweets to which the writer is replying).

    Via PET: Steve Irwin, privileged asshole hunter. by Grimalkin.

    Ahhh. This internet day’s getting off to a better start.

  254. Nutmeg says

    Rev BDC: Based on the laws of science journalism, I predict that this is:

    a) Not as big a deal as it is made out to be
    b) Not yet well enough understood to draw any major conclusions
    c) Definitely something that creationists will latch on to and be annoying about.

    Hopefully someone more qualified to comment on the specifics will come along and enlighten us.

  255. Beatrice says

    If someone wants to chat with Timon for Tea here, it would make me happy. Or at least a bit less murderous.

    I am very close to being sick all over my keyboard, thanks to him. It’s a rather unfortunate side effect of the boiling anger in me.

  256. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Hi all. I’m out of whack and therefore lurking.

    Hurricane Leslie still coping with shear; doesn’t look like that much of a cane. Michael, OTOH, is a beautiful major hurricane, although small in size.

  257. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Definitely something that creationists will latch on to and be annoying about.

    Right. This is the part I’m curious how they’ll use this considering their previous “arguments”, like Behe’s, on Junk DNA.

  258. Beatrice says

    A political party tried to use the professional training measure to get people to work for them for free (that measure I already whinged about a couple of times, in this thread too, employer pays you nothing, you get peanuts from the unemployment services).

    A fucking political party! To get people to work at their call center. Professional training for what exactly?

    Since I’ve already been pissed off today, I got all righteous and sent an email to a journalist at one of the news portals. This morning. Right now, there’s an article about it on their page.

    It’s not like I accomplished anything much, but at least it brightens my day a tiny little bit that this shit got exposed.

    Yay.

  259. says

    Raaaaaaage
    Just had a talk with #1
    I bought her a bolero-jacket for her ballet class and she doesn’t like it because it’s not pretty enough.
    And you have to be pretty to find a friend!
    She’s fucking five years old and already she meassures her own worth in terms of pretty!
    I tried to talk to her about what friendship means, and that whoever goes on about pretty probably isn’t very smart because being smart and caring and good is much more important than being pretty but I doubt that I had much success.

    beatrice
    I’m wondering when Stedman is coming in to chastize him for alienating me…

  260. Beatrice says

    Of course, when they called the party headquarters for comment it was a lot of bullshit about how young people will learn a lot of valuable things about functioning of a big national-wide network, also some bull about data analysis.

  261. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    I am so fucking furious. What value, precisely, does Edward Kagin bring to FtB? How exactly is he an ally in anything but propping up White McStuffyStraightersonAtheistPants? My comment on his latest bullshit:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/kagin/2012/09/06/there-is-no-such-thing-as-new-atheism-either/#comment-8220

    ………………………………………………………..You’re appalling. Women and minorities have been harassed, threatened, hounded off the Internet (these are your blogging colleagues Ed) and you have the fucking nerve to characterize their attempt to carve out a safe space as creating an exclusionary club?

    One can be an atheist and like chocolate chip ice cream. This does not mean that it is a good idea to form a club that excludes, and sees as enemies, anyone who does not like chocolate chip ice cream, or who actually prefer some other flavors.

    My civil rights as a gay man are not a contest between flavors of ice cream.

    Jen McCreight’s right to be left unmolested and free from rape threats is not a contest between flavors of ice cream.

    Rebecca Watson’s right to say “don’t do that” without being called a cunt (with the helpful silence or approval of people who should have had her back) is not a contest between flavors of ice cream.

    We’re people. This isn’t a frivolous matter of taste. How dare you be so flip? You bet your fucking ass I’m going to exclude people who think mine and women’s rights to full equality are as silly as chocolate or vanilla.

    Fuck you Kagin. You’re the very embodiment of the self-satisfied smug white guy atheist harumphing from Mount Atheist Incorporated. You’re a dinosaur and you’re completely out of touch with legitimate concerns that motivate a lot of young secular people. Welcome to obsolescence.

  262. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Rev,
    I dunno, the science smack down happening in the comments is pretty damned funny.

    See! Pray to the Sweet Winged Lizard Jesus and all your prayers will be answered!

  263. Pteryxx says

    Right, being a vicious bigot’s just a matter of differing personal preference after all. Like all those other personal preferences such as race, gender, orientation or disability. *hurkl*

  264. portia says

    Hey, if you call bigots “bigots” that’s intellectual terrorism.*

    *actual argument from an actual person.

  265. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    The epitome of privilege is being able to “not see” how the grounds on which other people are oppressed are important.

  266. portia says

    Ing, *giggle* Go get ‘em. Does that make Josh the hero we need right now, but not the one we deserve? Did I say that right?

  267. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Sorry that this is so trite but what the fuck kind of person compares civil rights issues to the preference to a flavor of ice cream. Have people had been suppressed, oppressed, have rights denied, been beaten, been imprisoned or been murdered because of the flavor of ice cream they like?

    Can Kagin be sent to the slime pit?

  268. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Hey, if you call bigots “bigots” that’s intellectual terrorism.

    Portia, there is no need to explain that this is an actual argument that someone used. This has been used by reactionaries for decades now. Their shoddy attempt to toss leftist arguments back at leftists.

  269. Louis says

    Josh, #360,

    I beg to differ.

    I will, however, grant that it does depend on which one of your Josh personae is turning up.

    Louis

  270. portia says

    Janine – I suppose I shouldn’t have been surprised, but I had never heard that particular term before. Just when I think they’ve sunk as low as it goes…there’s another one saying some stupid crap like “intellectual terrorism.” Honestly, if calling someone a bigot or a racist makes them scared of saying bigoted and racist crap, then yeah, call me a freakin’ intellectual terrorist. Social pressure ftw.

  271. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Portia, since the Reagan administration (And remember, Reagan officially started his presidential campaign with a dog-whistle; a speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi.) we have heard that the anti-racist activists are just as bad as the KKK, CCC and other racist organization. It does not take much thought nor imagination to replace anti-racist activists with LGBT activists, women’s rights activists, environmental activists or any other cause.

    The sad thing is not that the argument is made. It is that it works on some people.

  272. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    A peek into the sick mind of someone so thoroughly wrapped up in the culture of domination they literally cannot conceive of entities having relationships that are not about subjugation and supremacy. “Jacques Cuze” on Kagin’s blog just said feminism is raping atheism. Oh, of course he said it civilly:

    What do we call it when one group penetrates and invades another against its will? Is that colonialism? Imperialism? Hegemony? Domination? Something else?

  273. portia says

    Well, I was born late in the Reagan Administration, but I have already heard enough of “Gawd both sides are TOO extreme, they’re just as bad as the other” to last me five lifetimes. I’ve been called the “liberal version of Westboro” because I’m unapologetic about my hatred of all the nasty -isms. It’s infuriating that it works on some people…

    Looking up the speech you’re referring to…

  274. portia says

    feminism is raping atheism

    There are not words to express my rage. I’ve been hoping that by hanging around here I would get better at the righteous tirades, but I just have no words. What kind of scum do you have to be to compare calling out misogyny to sexual violence? I can’t fathom a mind in which that makes sense or is civil. Just…fuck that. FUCK THAT.

  275. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I’ve been called the “liberal version of Westboro” because I’m unapologetic about my hatred of all the nasty -isms.

    I am sure that almost all of us have had variations of that shit tossed at us. It does not make it any less infuriating just because it is so common place. These people cannot be bothered to think about the many key differences between most of us and the proud group of bigots, with the key one being that most of us believe in equal rights for all people verses Westboro’s hatred of all other peoples (tribes). But why think when it feels better to believe you are above such petty concerns.

  276. Pteryxx says

    Semi random – can anyone here send me contact info for Matt Dillahunty or forward an email to him for me? A+Scribe needs his “go” on a transcript.

    He speaks at almost every conference on the face of the planet, SOMEone knows how to reach him!

  277. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    feminism is raping atheism

    Classic “provocative” troll baiting. I am so torn between ignoring the stupid little pissant or dropping a sixteen ton weight on top of his head.

  278. portia says

    the key one being that most of us believe in equal rights for all people verses Westboro’s hatred of all other peoples (tribes). But why think when it feels better to believe you are above such petty concerns.

    Exactly! The false equivalence never ceases to get under my skin. As to your second part, that’s so perfect. It’s so easy to dismiss both sides as “hateful” when it doesn’t affect you one way or the other and you can just feel smug about how those silly people have convictions, therefore they’re all the same.

  279. portia says

    He went on to promise to “restore to states and local governments the power that properly belongs to them”.[5] Analysts believed that his use of the phrase was seen by many as a tacit appeal to Southern white voters and a continuation of Richard Nixon’s Southern Strategy, while some argued it reflected Reagan’s libertarian economic beliefs. The speech drew attention for his use of the phrase “states’ rights” at a place just a few miles from a town associated with the 1964 murders of civil rights workers.

    Ew.

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia,_Mississippi#Reagan.27s_visit

  280. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I remember the days when the main stream media id not give a flying fuck about the Phelps klan, they were just a fringe group who were picking fights with the fags. How that changed when they started picketing the funeral of “real Americans” (Dead military personnel.) That was when they became a threat.

    I also remember the days when just about only the feminists reported on the events in Taliban dominated Afghanistan. But after the terrorist attacks of September 11, Laura Bush justified the invasion because of their treatment of women. Funny how something that was ignored for years became a means of trying to convince those who opposes you to support their ends.

    *spits venom if I could*

  281. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Portia, there is a reason why some of us will never have a kind word to say about Reagan. If you want to have some fun, look up Reagan’s battles with Free Speechers when he was governor of California. Hardly the affable and kindly man that became his image as President. I had friends who lived through that time and would not forgive him for that, let alone his time as President.

  282. Pteryxx says

    Josh: I admit if I got an invite like that, I’d be tempted to go and bring fried chicken, collard greens, and watermelon, just to see what they’d do. (Besides, I LIKE fried chicken, collard greens, and watermelon.)

  283. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    And America loves the asshole so much even Obama will go to great lengths praising the majesty of his white cock

    Why else would so many places in the US have places named after him. Oh, wait, there are groups that exist just to pressure government agencies to name shit after that shithead.

  284. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    You know, another thing. A lot of Kagin’s problem seems to be (and this is shared widely, but not universally, by doodz his age) he’s uncomfortable with and annoyed by a world in which he doesn’t get to declaim From Real Books And Real Newspapers and have everyone just consume his thoughts. He rarely responds to commenters in his blog, even when they’re really shredding his arguments. He doesn’t actually like blogging because it’s a conversation, not a lecture.

    And that’s why he’s largely irrelevant in this medium. Trouble for him is that his preferred method of stentorian pronunciation by paper isn’t holding ground either. For better or worse (and there’s always a better and a worse whether we prefer past or future media) the days of only a few Learned Men who pass through the ultra-fine filter of publishing being seen as thought leaders and not to be questioned are over.

    I don’t think he knows that. Or if he does he very much doesn’t like it and intends to act as if it weren’t so, thank you very much.

  285. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    People who make fun of that high school reunion story are just as bigoted as the people organized and attend that whites only event.

    If only we ignored it, it would go away.

  286. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Pteryxx (see, I CAN spell!)—oh yes, that would be just the thing! Sally and I were talking about that very thing this weekend. Who the fuck doesn’t like mac and cheese and fried chicken? Or watermelon? Nobody. Nobody at all (yes, I know veggies and vegans exist). Acting like that’s a “black food” is not merely offensive it’s bizarre.

  287. Pteryxx says

    There’s a lot of classism (and thus otherism and racism) around food and the knowledge of food. One reason I’m having to learn to cook from scratch *now*, as an adult, is because my upper-mid parents didn’t believe in such servantly skills. But food’s way more expensive when everything’s either made for you or ready-to-nuke… and I can’t even BUY collard greens at the higher-end groceries, much less heart or pig’s feet. (Not that I’d know what to do with them if I did… working on that part.)

    So basically, fried chicken’s sometimes sufficiently “white” if you buy it pre-made – but *homemade* fried chicken is too “black”.

  288. says

    Janine makes the point that I was just about to make: funny how all these various and sundry assclowns “care” about women’s issues when it comes to drawing a dividing line between them and their opponents, and then magically find those issues out-of-bounds as soon as it becomes an internal discussion.

    We don’t buy the excuses that people make for extremist Muslims making death threats against women who speak out. We don’t accept rationalizations from people who respond to the Catholic rape scandals by saying that not all Catholics are rapists and therefore shut up. We get that those aren’t real explanations as much as they are shields against examining the underlying cultures and correcting them. So when some atheists try to downplay or excuse the abuse heaped upon feminists within the movement, up to and including blaming the victims for being “divisive,” they are doing the same thing that they criticize theists for doing.

    Fuck that, and fuck them. If you only care about abusive behavior when you can use it as a club against people outside your tribe, and will use similar behavior to silence dissent within your tribe, then you’re not anyone’s ally… you’re just another fucking asshole, and the door is over there.

  289. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    You’re so right about class and food, Pterryx. If ever you need advice on preparing tasty, healthful things from scratch, just email me. One thing I did get out of my low-class poor upbringing was a damned good set of kitchen skills.

  290. portia says

    Janine – Ugh the naming things after Reagan. It’s terrible in Illinois. Reagan this and Reagan that. All over the damn place.

    …and now I want some fried chicken.

  291. says

    There’s a lot of classism (and thus otherism and racism) around food and the knowledge of food. One reason I’m having to learn to cook from scratch *now*, as an adult, is because my upper-mid parents didn’t believe in such servantly skills. But food’s way more expensive when everything’s either made for you or ready-to-nuke… and I can’t even BUY collard greens at the higher-end groceries, much less heart or pig’s feet. (Not that I’d know what to do with them if I did… working on that part.)

    Interestingly, if you grew up today it would probably be the other way around. Today the (upper) middle class takes great pride in getting good fresh produce and preparing it according to high-gloss recipe books.

  292. says

    Yay poor people food!!!

    I’ve mentioned before, but you can get a pound of chicken gizzards and hearts for like $1.25 and fry them up to feed 3-4 people along with some macaroni salad (box of generic mac costs less than $2 and probably makes a few dozen servings) with homemade mayonnaise and some collards that you can buy huge fucking sacks of for a few dollars.

    They call it “black food” but what they mean is “poor food” and even poor white people call it “black” so they can feel a little less poor if only in their imaginations.

  293. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Janine – Ugh the naming things after Reagan. It’s terrible in Illinois. Reagan this and Reagan that. All over the damn place.

    I know. I live in Illinois.

    Eureka!

    Dixon!

    Chicago Cubs announcer!

    blahblahblahblah…

  294. Pteryxx says

    Y’know, I bet part of that comes from fast food’s rush to lowest quality, while the working poor nowadays hold two or three jobs and *can’t* cook from scratch at will because of lack of facilities, time, or grocery access. Now it’s a sign of leisure to spend time cooking fancy fresh ingredients; sometimes even to grow your own food. And that’s disgusting.

  295. portia says

    On the subject of Illinois and politics, was anybody else sort of surprised to see P.Quinn speak at the DNC? Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like his image is a bit tainted by He Who Shall Not Be Named Who is Serving 14 in the Penn. Quinn’s not quite a national figure, either. Nothing special about him.

  296. Pteryxx says

    Joe, what’s your recipe for chicken hearts and gizzards? I’d like to try some of the super-cheap stuff in my stir-fries. And seconded on the greens – I don’t know collard greens yet, but *radish* greens give you a week’s supply for less than a dollar and cook up just like spinach. Mmm-mm!

  297. Richard Austin says

    Food is one of those things that really separates classes without being blatantly obvious to a lot of people. My favorite foods growing up were fried chicken and spaghetti in meat sauce; I only found out as a teen that my mother made them so often because they were cheap to make in huge amounts that could be stored and used to feed us for days.

  298. Pteryxx says

    *nod* I said “or grocery access”. There used to be small corner grocery stores in most neighborhoods, and not just gas station quicky-marts.

  299. Rey Fox says

    You know, another thing. A lot of Kagin’s problem seems to be (and this is shared widely, but not universally, by doodz his age) he’s uncomfortable with and annoyed by a world in which he doesn’t get to declaim From Real Books And Real Newspapers and have everyone just consume his thoughts.

    You can tell from the goofy way he put his name and that little copyright symbol at the end of his post. Wanker.

  300. says

    Pteryxx, I usually slice the hearts in half and the gizzards get quartered so that I get more surface area for the breading to cover it. However you decide to cook it, innards need a little extra rinsing and a short boil to clean and tenderize. Just 5-10 minutes in salted water, I like them to still have a little bit of texture or else I’d be cooking chicken liver.

    …oooh, chicken liver! I wonder how cheap that it?

    Anyhoo, I use a flour/corn meal mix with Goya adobo and paprika, an egg/milk wash, and I usually double-bread for an extra-thick coating. Let it sit breaded for 30-45 minutes so it comes out crispy and then in the oil until golden brown.

  301. Pteryxx says

    well, I breaded my first things a day or two ago, so I might be able to manage that… though more likely I’d boil them and toss them straight in the stir-fry pan nekkid. ;>

  302. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Pterryx: greens are easy. The following method works well for all of them; kale, mustard, collard, whatever.

    If you’re a meat-eater, get a smoked ham hock. They are for flavor, not meat, and they’re cheap. Cut up the greens, add water, ham hock, onion, garlic, salt, and some olive oil. Cover and simmer until they reach the consistency you like. Some people like them to stay crunchy, others like them very soft. Hot sauce goes well on them, and a few strips of bacon can be substituted for the ham hock.

    For veggie, leave out the ham hock and add some vegetarian broth or stock.

    You can also sautee greens Italian-style in a pan with olive oil, garlic, and salt. If you want them softer just add some water or stock and let them cook down a little.

  303. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Portia, Ronald Reagan also helped to liberate Jews from concentration camps.

    Yet Bush’s self-serving revisions cannot compare with the fantastic recollections of the late Ronald Reagan, whose veneration by Republicans was never diminished by his bizarre utterances. In November 1983, he told Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir during a White House visit that while serving in the U. S. Army film corps, his unit had shot footage of the Nazi concentration camps as they were liberated. He repeated the same tale to Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal and other witnesses. Reagan had indeed served in the Army and worked on morale-boosting movies for the War Department. But he had done so without ever leaving Hollywood for the entire duration of the war.

    Reagan truly was a real life Zelig/Gump.

    One of my favorite songs about Reagan, by Camper Van Beethoven: Sweethearts.

  304. says

    Pteryxx,
    I’m right there with you on the “teaching myself to cook” thing. My grandmama was an amazing cook, but my mom thought that it was beneath her to learn, so she didn’t have any skills to pass on to us.

    But, on the plus side, experimenting with food is hella fun and so much better for you than pretty much anything that’s prepackaged. Even the failures are worth it– like first time I made muffins and forgot the sugar. I should have known better (I had been baking cake and cookies and brownies pretty regularly at that point), but on the other hand, it was awsome to see the little leaning towers of biscuit that came out of the oven. :)

    Have you thought about checking used book stores for vintage cookbooks? I’ve had a lot of luck with cookbooks from the mid-40s to the early 60s or so. Although they tend to assume a certain level of skill, there’s less call for expensive, exotic ingredients that you tend to see in today’s recipes. Plus, they tend to have less ingredients per dish, which makes things a hell of a lot less complicated.

  305. broboxley OT says

    chicken gizzards are also good with a soy/ginger soak then fried with stirfry stuff

    chicken livers are awesome,
    boiled
    mashed
    cooled
    onions garlic and mayo to taste

  306. carlie says

    I read a really good analysis of why watermelon is associated with black people. It had something to do with justifying slavery…

    there it is. That website is such a good resource for, well, everything.

    Quote:

    I think this is an interesting example of the way in which supposedly random stereotypes have strategic beginnings. The association of Black people with a love of watermelon isn’t just a neutral stereotype, nor one that emerged because there is a “kernel of truth” (as people love to say about stereotypes). Instead, it was a deliberate tool with which to misportray African Americans and justify slavery.

  307. says

    Pteryxx, for a stir-fry I’d STILL bread them, lightly with flour and no egg wash, and fry them twice. Once on their own, and then a second time with the veggies right at the end. I likes crispy!

  308. portia says

    Janine, holy crapballs. That’s insane. Thanks for teaching me so much. I’m off to pack for a weekend trip and try to stop raging.

    And a belated thank you to Socio-Gen, Giliell, et al., for the Rude Kid advice.

    See you all soon!

  309. carlie says

    Greens were a fucking revelation to me. OMG so good. My favorite is sauteed with olive oil and garlic and maybe part of a cherry pepper, then baked with a little chicken broth to soften them up more with parmesan and breadcrumbs on top.

  310. says

    Can someone explain to me why my biscuits sometimes rise, and sometimes don’t? Mostly they don’t rise when I cut them, and sometimes when I just drop them with a spoon they balloon into huge biscuit-cakes. Buuuut when I roll and slice the same recipe into dumplings they also get all huge and fluffy.

  311. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Watermelons also played a big role of Harold Washington’s 1983 campaign for Mayor of Chicago.

    If one had to see the archives from that time period, one would see that there was a huge watermelon motif in the racist opposition to Washington.

  312. ImaginesABeach says

    Audley –

    Mayor Castro was grilled by the presenters (Gwen Ifel, David Brooks, etc) because apparently Dems can’t be “big tent” if they don’t include more “prolife”* voices. What the ever lovin’ fuck?
    *I hate that fucking term.

    I always say I am prolife.
    I am prolife because I believe that all people should have access to adequate housing. I am prolife because I believe that all people should have access to adequate food and clean water. I am prolife because I believe that all people should have access to clean air to breath. I am prolife because I believe that all people should have access to adequate health care. I am prolife because I believe that all people should be safe from assault and fear of assault. I am prolife because I believe that all people should be free to love and live with whomever they please. I am prolife because I believe that the bodily autonomy of all people should be respected. I am prolife because I believe that the happiness of a living, breathing human being is far more important than any potential person.
    .
    I wish I could nominate comments on other blogs for Molly II awards. This comment by blogofmyself is so close to perfect, I want to cry: http://freethoughtblogs.com/cuttlefish/2012/09/05/no-she-said-trigger-warning/#comment-63525
    .
    Add me to the list of people who are afraid to meet anyone – I find the Horde extremely intimidating. Not because of your ferocity, but because you are all so damn smart.
    .
    I’m also really jealous of everyone that comments here in English, despite having English as a 2nd or 3rd or more language. I had French in high school and college (over 20 years ago), but haven’t used it since. Even back then, I could understand most of what was said or written, but didn’t do well at expressive communication in French. I’ve been trying to learn Spanish lately. I bought R. Stone language-learning software and after a month, I can introduce myself and order eggs, toast and coffee for breakfast. As long as the person to whom I am speaking is patient and is kind enough to pretend that what I am saying sounds something close to Spanish.

  313. says

    Joe,
    Biscuits rise less the more you handle them– I want to say that it has to do with the amount of air in the dough, which would explain why you’re always told not to roll them out more than once. So if you’re comparing traditional rolled out and baked biscuits to dumplings, the dumplings will always rise more because you’re not smooshing the hell out of the dough.

  314. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Also, the image of blacks being lazy watermelon and fried chicken eating darkies was written in lightning in Birth Of A Nation.

    Borrowing a phrase from the notoriously racist Woodrow Wilson.

  315. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Joe- Audley’s right. Drop biscuits are far better for texture. If you follow the Cook’s Illustrated recipe closely you’ll get the most amazing authentic Southern biscuits. Do exactly as they say when measuring baking powder and soda. . it makes a difference.

    http://nookandpantry.blogspot.com/2007/07/mile-high-buttermilk-biscuits.html

    These are perfect every time. People can’t believe I made these at home when I bring them because they’re so used to sub-standard biscuits.

  316. says

    Thanks Audley and Josh… I’ve bookmarked the link, and I’ll make another go at biscuits this weekend. I have everything but the buttermilk, but I think I’ll go to the store and buy some rather than either lemon juice or the previously-assumed gay joke. :)

  317. Beatrice says

    I followed Josh’s link and realized I already have that recipe bookmarked. I haven’t used it yet, though. I plan to correct that mistake soon.

  318. Dhorvath, OM says

    I quit my job today. It sucked. I like my bosses, I would gladly hang out with them, go for a ride, talk shop, etc. But I cannot rely on them to actually do anything. I am not their leader and my professional reputation is more important to me than theirs is to them.

  319. Beatrice says

    Btw. does milk+lemon work as a good substitute for buttermilk? I’ve seen the advice, but haven’t tried it. Or can I just use yogurt (low fat watery one or regular?)?

  320. Dhorvath, OM says

    I have often made buttermilk like stuff with a shot of vinegar in milk. It’s not the same given our milk being the 0.1% stuff, but rising and the like seems to be reliable.

  321. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Yes. Adding a tablespoon of vinegar or lemon juice to a cup of milk is called “clabbering” the milk. Stir and give it five minutes to slightly thicken. Yes, you can also use yogurt.

    The key is that all these liquids are acids which are necessary for the first stage of rising (from the soda). The baking powder gives the second rise from the heat of the oven.

  322. Dhorvath, OM says

    I have things in the wings and am good at what I normally do. I don’t expect this will last, but if it does, we are in okay shape to handle it.

  323. says

    Related to absolutely nothing here…

    The other day, I was hunting in my office for my bottle opener and I found a vegetable peeler. Today I was cleaning the upstairs bathroom and I found my bottle opener.

  324. cicely (Something Dark and Humorously Mordanted) says

    Instead it went “you got a 13? (A-) Why didn’t you get a 15? (A+)” If I got angry it was just a joke, can’t you take a joke? Gosh you’re so easily offended, what’s wrong with you?

    Your mother and mine must be graduates of the same School of Parenting! My mom once became frothingly furious (amounting to a half-hour of hard-core screaming) when this one quarter, my English grade went down to a 97, from 99. There’s a difference, though; I was never allowed to be angry or offended, and it was never a joke, and what was wrong with me was that I was inadequately buffing up her tally of brag-ables in her life-and-death competition with her sister, with obvious malice aforethought.

    How dare you be so flip?

    Because it is Somebody Elses’ Problem. It is Their Misfortunes And None Of His Own.

    feminism is raping atheism

    O-o
    He hasn’t been paying any attention at all this last, oh, year or so, has he?

    Ooh, wait. This would be more Somebody Elses’ Problem, wouldn’t it?

    Dhorvath, you okay? I got *hugs* if you need some.
    -

  325. says

    cicely

    There’s a difference, though; I was never allowed to be angry or offended, and it was never a joke, and what was wrong with me was that I was inadequately buffing up her tally of brag-ables in her life-and-death competition with her sister, with obvious malice aforethought.

    Oh, I was only allowed to be angry to prove I was wrong. Angry = wrong. But you know the joke excuse. It’s never actually a joke (a joke is when people laugh and are merry.) But it gave her plausible deniability from my accusations.

    And now I need to change my nym, you’ll excuse me…

  326. says

    It’s so easy to dismiss both sides as “hateful” when it doesn’t affect you one way or the other and you can just feel smug about how those silly people have convictions, therefore they’re all the same.

    http://xkcd.com/774/

    Biscuits rise less the more you handle them– I want to say that it has to do with the amount of air in the dough

    Gluten. The more you handle them the tougher the flour/water mixture becomes, the fast chemical leavening from the baking powder can’t stand up to it.

  327. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Horde Fund Alert

    Please remind me who is in greatest need right now. A donation came in by surprise.

  328. says

    … I wasn’t actually LOOKING for the bottle opener behind the toilet, it was more of a “happy accident” of the sort that requires bleach. Odd sort of thing, and I’ve tried to picture the scenario that leads to bottle opener upstairs behind the toilet.

    The only thing I can figure is that when I’m drinking I sometimes do a weird circuit between sitting in front of the TV and sitting in front of the computer. And it never fails that I’ll get up for a beer, decide mid-kitchen to switch from one room to the other, I’ll sit down and get comfortable… and realize that I left the bottle opener in the OTHER room. Can happen 3-4 times a night. So I’m guessing I decided to keep the bottle opener in my pocket, and then at some point I carried it upstairs with me. Pushed my shorts down, sat on the crapper, and the bottle opener fell out of my pocket and wound up behind the toilet.

  329. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Fake Hubby, just in case you never seen this; Pat Robertson asks if Mac And Cheese is a black thing. His co-host, who is black, says yes.

    I am left befuddled.

    …okay, I knew about fried chicken and watermelon stereotypes, but macaroni and cheese as a stereotype?

    That’s fuckingstupid on a par with “denim shorts are passe.”

  330. says

    joe
    I once lost my keys that way behind my toilet.
    Well, I was very tired after a very long night with very little sleep (the night after the last school exam) and I crawled back into my bed and then in the afternoon my keys were gone. Now, since the car-keyes were seperate I thought I’d lost them where we partied and searched the wood where everybody went the night before to pee/crap/puke.

  331. ChasCPeterson says

    I knew about fried chicken and watermelon stereotypes, but macaroni and cheese as a stereotype?

    It’s not a stereotype like watermelon. It is an important component of what used to be called (and still is, according to g**gle) “soul food”, along with black-eyed peas, fried catfish, collard greens, chitlins, okra, and cornbread. Not a stereotype so much as a cuisine.

  332. PatrickG says

    Anybody having trouble connecting to the A+ forums? Site seems to be unusually burdened. I’ve been traveling recently, so haven’t really tried often, but wondering if this has been a problem over the recent past, or if it’s a one-off.

  333. says

    ARGH DAMN. Last week I won an auction for half a bottle of vintage Chanel 19 cologne at a ridiculously low price. Today a box came and I knew something was wrong as soon as I smelled the lovely Chanel wafting from it.

    The seller obviously didn’t know that you should seal the necks of cologne/perfume bottles before shipping, and they just threw the bottle in the box surrounded by styrofoam peanuts. It leaked completely out of the bottle and only a few drops are left. I am honestly on the verge of tears, what a waste. I hope I can get my money back but that will never replace an irreplaceable cologne :(

  334. hotshoe says

    Btw. does milk+lemon work as a good substitute for buttermilk? I’ve seen the advice, but haven’t tried it. Or can I just use yogurt (low fat watery one or regular?)?

    What really works perfect is some plain yogurt mixed into the milk [for example, in Josh's biscuit recipe, spoon about 4 ounces yogurt into a 2-cup Pyrex measuring cup, then top off with enough milk to the total one-and-a-half-cups which the recipe calls for; give it a couple quick stirs] and then set out on the counter while you get everything else ready. Plain yogurt is usually too thick to substitute cup for cup for the buttermilk in biscuits – it needs to be “pourable” just like liquid buttermilk is.
    Since we hardly ever have liquid milk in the house anymore, I’ve also used yogurt thinned just with a little water, and that works okay as a substitute for buttermilk.

  335. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Woo Hoo!

    I am back in the workforce!

    It’s taken almost a month, but I have a job.

    I just don’t know what it is :)

    A few days ago, I had a wild hair and decided to check out the jobs listings on Craigslist for the service industry. I came across a listing looking for experienced bartenders at bar/restaurant called Laguna’s on Pensacola Beach’s Boardwalk. After inquiring with some contacts, I found out that the Beverage Director used to be my GM at an old restaurant I worked at. I had an appointment set up for today at the Portofino Island Resort (these are separate locations, but are all owned by the same company), which is right on the beach. This is somewhat luxurious (at least by Pensacola standards). I met with a manager of one of the restaurants at the Resort (whom I’d *also* worked with in the past). At that point, I was just looking for a job tending bar. He was excited to see me and mentioned several times how much he would have loved to have me working there over the summer. It was wonderful to have someone recognize my work ethic and my skill set. Following that, I met up with the Beverage Director at Laguna’s. Unlike any prior interviews, I didn’t have to sell myself. He knew me. He knew how I worked. In fact, it was more like “I want you working for this company. Here are the options we have. What would you like to do?”
    I can’t express how wonderful it felt to be recognized and respected for the quality of my work and who I am as an employee. As I said, initially I was looking for a job as a bartender, but as I spoke with the Director, he mentioned positions in management that were available as well.
    I’ve been in the service industry all my life. I’m almost 37 and I started working at 16 at a little pizza buffet restaurant. I’ve been bartending since 1999. I still like doing it. In the last year or two, however, I’ve come to realize that I’m getting closer to the end of my shelf life as a bartender. It’s not that my abilities are deteriorating. I’m getting tired of the late nights getting off work (leaving work at 3,4, or 5 am is getting tiresome). I’m getting tired of dealing with many of the types of guests that I encounter at the bar. As my interest in social justice has grown, it’s become more and more difficult to sit back and watch people treat others shitty and not be able to do anything about it. Behind the bar, I can only walk away a certain distance. Over the years, I’ve had various managers and even owners request that I move up to management. I always declined, as I didn’t want the severe pay cut, the longer hours, or the responsibility. At the same time, I’ve watched many severely unqualified people move into positions of management. I’ve watched as some of these people run roughshod over the staff, or abuse their power. I’ve seen mistakes made that were blatantly obvious to me. I’ve sat back and thought that I could do such a better job. Co-workers have said the same thing. In light of being terminated last month, and the lack of respect I was shown, I’m seriously considering getting out of bartending while I’m still on top. I know I’m approaching burnout and I think it might be better to stop now, before I get to that point.

    I asked the Beverage Director where he would place me if the choice was his. He gave me several options to think about. He thinks I would be a great asset as a manager at any one of their locations. I think I need to start looking further down the line. As a bartender, my thoughts have been short term. To have experience as a manager at a well known local resort would be great to have on a resume. To have stable hours would allow me to go back to school and get my degree. I’m going to chat with my parents later to get feedback from them, but I’m strongly leaning towards a position in management. I just have to figure out which one I want.

    So yeah, I have a job, I just don’t know what it is.

  336. says

    Does anyone know why yogurt works as a sour milk/buttermilk substitute for everything but pancakes? I can turn out wonderful pancakes using sour cream thinned with milk, or buttermilk, or milk clabbered with lemon juice.

    BUT if I use yogurt thinned with milk, they’re always weird and gummy. Every time.

    I just use an ordinary pancake recipe with white flour and all of that stuff, no other substitutions.

  337. hotshoe says

    Argh, I don’t want to obsess about this, but I don’t think I made it clear that what you stir together are yogurt and plain milk, not yogurt and buttermilk.

  338. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Most unique catch-a-bot system I’ve ever seen:
    “Here are some photos
    [eight photos of cats and dogs]
    By checking the boxes underneath the photos, please indicate which photos display cats.”

  339. hotshoe says

    kristinc –
    Probably because yogurt has gelatin in it. It doesn’t seem to bother most baked goods, but pancakes have so much surface exposed to direct heat, it probably scrambles the gelatin proteins.

  340. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    ImaginesABeach:

    I find the Horde extremely intimidating. Not because of your ferocity, but because you are all so damn smart.

    I understand this feeling.
    It’s heightened by the lingering feelings of inadequacy from not having a college degree. I *know* that’s irrational and I think I’ve cast much of that thinking aside (I’ve never felt that a degree makes one better than anyone else, but I’ve been made to feel that way subtly for years, so it’s affected my perspective on the issue), but when I see how well read so many of you are, or the fact that so many of you *are* so damn smart, there’s a part of me that feels like I wouldn’t be able to measure up.

    That said, I think it would be a wonderful experience to meet so many of you.

    ::wipes a tear from his eye::

  341. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    European enslavers fed their captive workers as cheaply as possible, often with leftover/waste foods from the plantation, forcing slaves to make do with the ingredients at hand. In slave households, ‘vegetables’ consisted of the tops of turnips, beets, and dandelions. Soon, African-American slaves were cooking with new types of “greens”: collards, kale, cress, mustard, and pokeweed. They also developed recipes which used lard, cornmeal, and offal; discarded cuts of meat such as pigs’ feet, oxtail, ham hocks, pig ears, hog jowls, tripe, and skin. Cooks added onions, garlic, thyme, and bay leaf as flavor enhancers. Slave owners provided their slaves with the poor parts of the pig such as the small intestines: chitterlings/”Chitlins” were a dish of poor people in medieval England and the name was adopted by the African-Americans through their European slave owners. Some African-American slaves supplemented their meager diets by gardening small plots given to them for growing their own vegetables; many engaged in subsistence fishing and hunting, which yielded wild game for the table. Foods such as raccoon, squirrel, opossum, turtle, and rabbit were, until the 1950s, very common fare among the then still predominantly rural and Southern African-American population
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_food

    I never really thought about what makes certain types of food “soul food”. Growing up, my parents cooked chitterlings (I’ve *never* like the taste *or* the smell; damn they make the entire house reek), cornbread, collard greens, pigs feet, oxtail stew and more. I don’t have a huge affection for a lot of the items seen as soul food, but there are a few that I love. Looking at a list of common soul food items, I find that I like fried chicken and fish (though they aren’t frequent staples of my diet), ham and bacon, cornbread, black eyed peas (love them over rice), and grits (especially cheese grits).

  342. opposablethumbs says

    Congratulations Tony, that’s fantastic! I’m really happy for you (and it’s nice to be feeling happy for someone, so thank you for that :) )

    Here’s to the new manager, I guess? And mainly, here’s to your abilities, skills, experience and attitude getting the recognition they deserve. That’s brilliant.

  343. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Tony, congratulations! Yes, I think you’re absolutely smart to be thinking about moving up into management. That’s good long-term career thinking.

    Also, though I did go to a fussy/expensive private college I am a high school drop-out. Markita’s right.

  344. PatrickG says

    @ Stephen T: Ah, thanks, missed that.

    @ Tony: Congrats! Treat your bartenders (if you end up managing them) as well as you’d have wanted to be treated and I’m sure your employees will worship the very ground you walk upon.

    Also, think kind thoughts for me as I sweat through an interview myself in 45 mins. :)

  345. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Thank you all.

    In a way, it feels like I’m moving into the next phase of my life. I admit to a bit of nervousness combined with excitement.
    ****
    PatrickG:

    Good luck! I hope you get the position.

  346. says

    Probably because yogurt has gelatin in it.

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhh. That makes total sense. I know that sometimes I buy low-fat yogurt with gelatin, and sometimes I buy full-fat yogurt with no gelatin, but I can’t remember which one/s I would have used in my multiple pancake attempts. Maybe I will try again with no-gelatin yogurt one of these days.

  347. strange gods before me ॐ says

    I know you’re going to claim otherwise

    What am I going to claim otherwise? If you mean you know I’m going to say that I know I’m not an isolated, perfectly objective observer, then you should take my word that I know that. You’re not likely to know better than I know what I know about myself. You’d have to be an ultrarational superhuman — perhaps with mind-reading capabilities — to claim that you do.

    but your saying this tells me you don’t get that you’re not some isolated, perfectly objective observer and everyone else knows this.

    You should have considered whether there’s any other possible explanation for my saying that it’s not my credibility at stake.

    You should have considered that perhaps I knew something you didn’t know.

    Since I already knew that at least some other people knew about ‘Tis Himself’s years of blatant plagiarism, I knew that ultimately it would not be my credibility at stake.

    You do have a conflict of interests in this case

    But not a kind of conflict of interest which can cause Google results to demonstrate plagiarism where none exists.

    and you are giving reason to believe that the conflict of interests is a factor when you go as far out of the way as you have to discredit ‘Tis.

    So what? Your saying this tells me you don’t get that you’re not the most important person who decides whether ‘Tis Himself has been plagiarizing Bob Black, Iain MacSaorsa (via An Anarchist FAQ), Joseph Stiglitz, f_rushingr, Jason Welker, Meghan Falvey, Larry Swedroe, and who knows how many more.

    Your judgment, Setár, does not matter — except that by admitting your errors you can save face.

    You are not helping your case

    I’m certainly not hurting it.

    by slamming it on the table in front of everyone who mentions ‘Tis for what he is known for.

    Not everyone, Setár. Just you, because you scolded me merely for bringing up ‘Tis Himself’s plagiarism over on the forum in the very thread where he had plagiarized Stiglitz and Welker last week.

    Drop it.

    You expect to be able to insult me and give me orders, to which I will not reply?

  348. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Related to absolutely nothing here…

    The other day, I was hunting in my office for my bottle opener and I found a vegetable peeler. Today I was cleaning the upstairs bathroom and I found my bottle opener.

    I do hope you possess more than a single bottle opener.

  349. strange gods before me ॐ says

    John,

    Azkyroth, thanks for your kind question, but there’s no answer to it.

    (Why do you imagine there’s something wrong with me?)

    Azkyroth presumably had not clicked and seen the plagiarism. So, probably just a misunderstanding on Azkyroth’s part.

    And now I shall attempt to depart from the Lounge.

  350. Amblebury, I doesn't afraid of NOTHING! says

    Josh perhaps to help some one to get to Rhinebeck? Improbable Joe and Bossnurse?

  351. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Fake Hubby, just in case you never seen this; Pat Robertson asks if Mac And Cheese is a black thing. His co-host, who is black, says yes.

    I am left befuddled.

    I’m sure it could be considered some sort of dog whistle term as Chas suggests but really Mac and cheese is so common place in what many clasify as “southern food” it’s ubiquitous, black or white.

    You can find Mac and Cheese in any BBQ restaurant and these days many finer dinning restaurants due to the trendy popularity of Southern food in cuisine these days. Charleston very own upscale “southern food” Husk being voted country’s best new restaurant last year by Bon Appétit.

    I guess I’d like to see the context to see what form of misunderstanding or idiocy Robertson is going on about.

  352. Tethys says

    Rev BDC

    I guess I’d like to see the context to see what form of misunderstanding or idiocy Robertson is going on about.

    There is a link at #388.

    It consists of Michelle Obama and the co-host discussing what foods must be on the table at Thanksgiving and Christmas.

    They both chose mac and cheese.

  353. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Hmmmmm….The “comfort meal” at Casa La Redhead is Kraft’s M&C, stewed tomatoes, and hot dogs. *checks complexions* very pale.

  354. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Was it by check Josh? Because Dianna said this,

    BTW, Joe and JAL, there should be something coming to you from me via Josh and the snails. If you don’t get it, we’ll meet at Josh’s with pitchforks and torches, find out that the problem is he never got the mail, reconvene at the post office, fill out 21,293 forms and certificates required to hold an angry mob at the post office, and finally find out that the problem is that I missent it, at which point I’ll slink away in disgrace.

    Admittedly, Joe’s problem is far more urgent and important than mine currently.

  355. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    There is a link at #388.

    Shit I copied from another comment. Didn’t see and should have checked.

    Well it’s just Pat being a dumbass.

    And that was Condi Rice not M. Obama.

  356. ChasCPeterson says

    I do hope you possess more than a single bottle opener.

    damn straight. One on the keychain, one in the glove compt., one in the kitchen drawer, one attached by magnet to the fridge and the ol’ Swiss Army knife in a pinch.

  357. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    damn straight. One on the keychain, one in the glove compt., one in the kitchen drawer, one attached by magnet to the fridge and the ol’ Swiss Army knife in a pinch.

    Friend of mine uses his wedding ring while wearing it. Puts his palm on the top of the beer, works the ring on the far edge and lifts up.

    Neat trick, I feel as if I’m going to break my whole hand every time I try it.

  358. Nutmeg says

    Tony: Congratulations! It would be great if you ended up in a better position than your previous job.

  359. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    On Amazon there’s often bestselling books that go for free for a couple days. I found this great website that goes through them daily to make it easier to shift through and find them: Kindle Buffet.

  360. says

    At a rough guess, I probably own around a dozen bottle openers. But probably around half of those came free with cases of Steam Whistle.

    Probably five or six corkscrews, too. Couple sommelier knife types, couple of those ear/lever types, one nice ergonomic one (y’know… if you’re opening like fifteen bottles in a row, it’s important not to damage your carpel tunnel before you get to liver damage–this is targeted tissue destruction we’re shooting for here, people)… They have this way of collecting…

    But no, I don’t have a problem.

    Unrelated/à propos of little, this really incredibly stupid and now vastly overused meme where the ad tries to sell you something allegedly revolutionary with the line ‘[x profession]s hate her/him’ is really getting on my nerves, now. There’s a ‘Language professors hate him’ version at the top of this page at this very moment…

    I want to find some way to bomb this meme into ridicule. But I’m not sure how, yet. I guess I could do a series of unlikely products with slightly subverted/modified slogans like ‘Doctors actually find her pretty charming, but never call her back for a second date’, but I figure probably no one would even get it.