Why I am an atheist – Derek Neal »« The New Molly

[Lounge #363]

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Even the spiders are smiling here.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

Comments

  1. chigau (違う) says

    porcullised!
    re: good books for girls
    Enthusiastic second on Pippi Longstocking.
    (even though she’s not a princess)

  2. cicely says

    Whooo 30 day evaluation at work went better than expected

    Yay!
    -

    . She has plenty of pants and stuff but only wants to wear dresses because you can’t be a princess without a dress. I’ve tried so hard to explain this and nothing has worked. Goddamn it hurts to hear her talk like that.

    Does it have to be strictly animated princesses? ‘Cause if not, and if you think other features of it wouldn’t alarm her, Mirror Mirror, while not a brilliant film, does feature the princess starting out all…princessy…then learning how to fight, and later fighting—in pants. Which aren’t even pink. Intro to subversion, hmmmm?
    -

  3. rq says

    re: good books for girls

    Ronja (Ronya?) the Robber’s Daughter. Not sure how/where it is available in English, but it’s a great read, also by Astrid Lindgren.

  4. says

    Kristin:
    My impression is that there have been… problems in the past with too many unnecessary people parading in and out of the delivery rooms. My doctor’s office is the same way– you can have one person with you for appointments and that’s it. It obviously works fine for me (seriously, I don’t need or want anyone in my family looking at my crotch), but there are enough choices in doctors and hospitals around here that if it didn’t work, you could easily find a practice to accomodate your needs.

  5. broboxley OT says

    just put drivers side rear brake assembly back together, sticks. Sigh off to the parts store for a new caliper. $38 a wheel. Hope thats the only one I need to change. Wonderful engineers and their crap idea of a corkscrew piston. grrrr

  6. broboxley OT says

    I was in the delivery room for the birth of all of my children. Advice to males, if you are holding your loved ones hand for comfort make sure any appendages are out of reach, that is all.

  7. cicely says

    +1 to the ringing endorsements of the Tiffany Aching books and The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents.
    -

    I’m at a lake with Josh OSG, Ms. Daisy, and Esteleth.

    *envy*
    -

    I have a noted inability to find Horde members.

    *whispers…come to skepticon….come to skepticon….skepticon…skepticon…pick up the dice…oops; wrong message…skepticon….*
    -

  8. portia says

    Re: people in the delivery room. I have attended two births. One was my nephew. My sister’s FiL *insisted* on attending the birth of his grandson. And it weirded me out, but my sister doesn’t like to make waves, so he stayed. He was late and kept telling her “Don’t you dare have that baby til I get there!” It made me all ragey but not her and I kept the mama-bear feelings down in order to make it easier for her.

    The other was a very close friend. I was essentially her doula. Her husband sat in the corner trying not to be queasy, poor guy. The doctors did things that my friend didn’t consent to and didn’t want but again I kept my rage down in order to not tarnish her view that everything went just fine.

    Both were wonderful amazing experiences that I felt privileged to witness. Both women went without an epidural. I don’t know how they did it. And I don’t know if it made me want children more or less.

  9. broboxley OT says

    portia, Indian Health Care doesnt believe in pain relief, they barely believe in Doctors(badly understaffed) lots of caring and bright nursing staff tho.

  10. hotshoe says

    I just had a Pepsi with lunch, first time in, oh, maybe a year. Wish I knew someone nearby to whom I could donate the rest of the sixpack.. Maybe I can put them in the fridge at work and they’ll “disappear”.

  11. Nightjar says

    *hugs* for Audley. Don’t really know what else to say, so please just pretend I said something really comforting and encouraging and stuff. :)

    ***

    One of the lessons I figured out too late in life is that you can be femmie and dress up when you feel like it and also climb the Alps in entirely utilitarian garb when you feel like it. I always thought-mostly based on stories that characterized girls as “the pretty one” or “the adventurous one”-that you had to choose. I’m hoping little ones these days learn that they can have both.

    True. I love having both, and I love having learned from a young age that I can have both. Although my mom had the opposite problem of JAL’s with me. I would cry when she made me wear a dress. No, not just pout, cry.

    “But mommy, why can’t I wear normal clothes?”

    “Because it’s not a normal day, sweety, it’s a wedding/baptism/other important celebration, all the little girls will be wearing pretty dresses too.”

    “I don’t care, I still don’t wanna, and I don’t wanna go” *crying some more*

    She really had trouble explaining to me why I wasn’t supposed to wear the same clothes to a wedding that I wore to climb trees and play with dad’s soccer ball (you know, weekend clothes). Which was totally my plan, since it was, you know, weekend.

    ***

    On that note, I went to a catholic baptism today. Two little boys. The two year old didn’t seem to care much about the whole water-poured-on-head-while-stranger-says-magic-words thing, but his younger brother… Oh no, he didn’t like it one bit. Started bawling so loudly no one could hear the priest any more. He only quieted down a little when the chorus started singing, but in the middle of a silly song about how the magic water poured on his head was “pure” and “life” he started protesting loudly again and didn’t stop until the mass was over. Clearly, he disagreed that the water was anything but “wet” and “cold”, and was determined to punish the priest by not letting anyone hear what he had to say from that moment on. Heh.

    Poor, poor boy. Impressed with his lungs, I am.

  12. dianne says

    Wow. Just wow. Got a response from a “pro-lifer” about why anti-abortion groups aren’t interested in finding ways to cure miscarriage and willing to put money into it, especially on the federal level. He responded that he didn’t think that the government should be doing medical research at all and that charities and for profits could cover it. That’s just…ridiculous. It would mean the end of creative research in any country that did it and significant slowing to complete stoppage of true innovation. Sorry, Louis, but drug companies are rarely interested in real basic research and charities just don’t have that kind of money. It would be the end of any hope of anything other than slight, incremental improvement in the treatment of any disease from allergic rhinitis to cancer.

    They really believe this “I build this” crap, don’t they? And have absolutely no idea of the level of interdependence people in the modern world live with…how can someone NOT notice it?

    Rant, rant, rant.

  13. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    And the screwups with post subscription continue.
    Or maybe it’s just my technological ineptitude.

  14. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Socio-gen, Caine, et. al.

    You’d think I’d know that already…

    Azkyroth:

    To help roommate study, you’d have to stay up past lights-out, and since you’ve done that one too many times already, that would be grounds for suspension.

    Nightjar:

    Oh no, he didn’t like it one bit. Started bawling so loudly no one could hear the priest any more. He only quieted down a little when the chorus started singing, but in the middle of a silly song about how the magic water poured on his head was “pure” and “life” he started protesting loudly again and didn’t stop until the mass was over. Clearly, he disagreed that the water was anything but “wet” and “cold”, and was determined to punish the priest by not letting anyone hear what he had to say from that moment on. Heh.

    And neither did I. I’m still pissed to this day.

    Especially because the whole reason for this was Pascal’s Wager.

  15. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    dianne:

    They really believe this “I build this” crap, don’t they?

    Sadly, they do.
    Not recognizing, of course, building a business or a company would require, y’know, assistance. Hence “you didn’t build this”. I wish the President had said “You didn’t build this alone”, or “…without assistance.”

  16. ChasCPeterson says

    I only saw one birth; my daughter. We had done the Bradley classes; my wife really wanted a meaningfully natural experience without drugs and cutting. We even typed out a Birth Agreement, made the doctor sign it weeks before. Then after an intern fucked up things went slightly wrong and stressful and it all got thrown out the window, and then after the birth itself things went more wrong (not for the kid) and it got a bit nightmarish in there.
    No drugs but not as planned. Husband-coached childbirth ended up going pretty much like:

    Me: Breathe, sweetheart; breath, like we practi-
    Her: SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU HAVE NO IDEA SO JUST YAARGH
    Me: What the fuck is that?
    Nurse: (whispering) hemorrhoid.
    Me: yuh…uh, keep on breathing…honey…
    Her: SHUT UP SHUT UP WHY DON’T YOU FUCKING SHUT UP
    etc.

    But all’s well that ends well.
    Now she’s 16.

  17. Nightjar says

    Especially because the whole reason for this was Pascal’s Wager.

    Oh yes. Though I think that in a lot of cases nowadays it’s mostly “family is expecting it and will pester us if we don’t it/until we do it, so what the hell”. Stupid reasons, all of them. I’d like to say I will not baptise my children no matter what, but I don’t plan on having children in first place. Oh, and I fully expect family to pester me because of that too. They’re already pestering me because I haven’t “officially” introduced a boyfriend to them yet and deny secretly having one. *sigh*

    BTW, the father of these little boys is an atheist. I had some fun teasing him about how he must have instructed his kid to boycott the ceremony afterwards. :D

  18. otrame says

    One of my granddaughters is a warrior princess. At ten she likes to dress up in frilly stuff and do “girl stuff”. At other times, she wants to go for walks in the wilderness park and climb rocks (in 100 degree weather), and garden with me and a whole bunch of rough and tumble things. Also, if you want to play-fight, she will kick your ass. Her dad has been teaching her to wrestle and box since she was about 6 months old. She still loves playing with her light sabers. She also loves her soft toys and pretty dresses.

    So yeah. Girls can be a lot of things. I think many little boys have fewer options than girls do, these days. At least at this age. A few more years and the pressure to be what “boys like” will be pretty strong.

  19. Socio-gen, something something... says

    From the previous thread:

    broboxley
    I loved the Pippi Longstocking books when I was young!

    I thought it was utterly cool to read that Stieg Larsson based Lisbeth Salander on his idea of a grown-up Pippi.

    As for Larsson, he primarily drew inspiration from British and American authors such as Sara Paretsky, Val McDermid and Elizabeth George. Salander’s character, however, was inspired by the strong-willed redhead Pippi Longstocking in the children’s books by the late Astrid Lindgren.

    “What would she have been like today? What would she have been like as an adult? What would she be called? A sociopath?” Larsson told book store industry magazine Svensk Bokhandel in the only interview he ever did about his crime fiction. “I created her as Lisbeth Salander, 25 years old and extremely isolated. She doesn’t know anyone, has no social competence.”


    thunk
    With the studying, it would depend on why they needed my help. If it was someone who’d been trying but just couldn’t get it, I’d be willing to dig out a book light and hide under the covers to help them. If it was someone who been partying while I was working my butt off, not so much.

    otrame
    I would agree. Girls have a wider range of accepted behaviors/clothing choices. No one blinks at a girl who wears jeans one day and a princess dress the next. But a boy who wanders even slightly toward the feminine is immediately “corrected” by adults and peers.

  20. Ray, rude-ass yankee says

    Howdy! I haven’t been keeping up, so I hope everyone is well. Commiserations or congratulations to them what needs’em as appropriate
    I have off from work tomorrow morning so I can stay up like a grown-up. I plan to read some of my favorite blogs and fiddle around on the computer. I hope the storm heading our way doesn’t knock out the power or send us to the basement. It’s supposed to have high winds,lightning and hail.
    So, What’s new with y’all?

  21. John Morales says

    Thanks, thunk — you taught me something!

    (I was just looking at the word itself, without researching it)

  22. birgerjohansson says

    “Pippi Longstocking”

    In the Swedish edition at least, her father -who is just as strong- is a sailor who traveled the South Pacific a long time and ended up a king of the Kurrekurredutt archipelago.
    So Pippi might be a honorary princess, at least.
    I would recommend all parents to say “if you want to be like a princess, you should take after Pippi Longstocking”.
    — — — — — — — —
    Kids. My favourite is Stewie Griffin.
    Good book for older kids: “The Face in the frost” by Bellairs.
    — — — — — — — —
    Toy swords. One of my best friends is a lady who came here fom Iraq as a political refugee. As a kid she went to the same posh school as the elder Saddam Hussein son (Uday?). He was a bully even as a kid, he stole her toy sword.

  23. says

    They really believe this “I build this” crap, don’t they?

    They believe businesses and things are formed via direct transmutation from someone’s hard work and love of moral clarity like in Atlas Shrugged

  24. says

    Hey any gamers random question. I played Fallout New Vegas on my PS3 and liked it until it glitched to fuck and couldn’t be played. Now on Steam for 30 and a friend showed interest in playing it with me over skype, is the PC version any better bug wise?

  25. broboxley OT says

    Portia, you had made mention of epidermal, they dont do that at IHS, babies must tear out naturally.

  26. says

    Hey, Ogvorbis, I hope you caught the *hugs* as well as the “not reasonable” bit! I’m not trying to hand you more sticks to beat yourself up with.

    Thunk, you don’t have any moral obligation to help your roommate just because they exist near you. It would be nice to help them, perhaps even a virtuous act, but it is not a requirement. Making judgements as to where you spend your time and effort, and on whom, is a part of adult life. It is nice to be generous, and it is good to help people, and it is good not to be judgemental about stuff that’s basically none of your business. But judgements you must make!

    This is not the same as judging people for welfare, because you’re not denying them food, housing or medical care. You’re denying them access to your personal time and effort, which is yours to allocate as you see fit. If refusing to help *did* end up denying them the essentials of life, say because they hadn’t studied because of drinking because of trauma, and their parents are evil bastards who will kick them out if they fail, then the equation changes.

  27. broboxley OT says

    “you didnt build that”
    I have 3 small business owners on my street. They invested all of their saved money into equipment for their businesses. They started gathering customers, getting stiffed by some, gaining the loyalty of others. They are undocumented aliens. They pay federal income taxes via TN’s. They have no social security, no access to unemployment and although they pay for workmans comp they can never collect it. The smirk on the presidents face when he said “you didnt build that” completely pissed off every single one of them. They are not allowed to vote but their kids and grandkids do.

    A lot of legal small businesses that pay more in fees and insurance than these folks do feel the same way. Yes we all pay for roads, but a new and sniny road with electricity doesn’t do a damn thing for a business man with no customers. He goes broke, and has to get a job.

    Now there are lots of examples the other way as well. Government loans for education. Small business Loans. HUD contracts, federal purchasing. These are all excellent examples of “you didnt build that”

    The majority of folks who have small businesses have success in spite of government, not because of it. Those are the folks that are unhappy about the phrasing, and the smirk.

    However those folks are not who the President was addressing, he was speaking to his base and hit a home run with his base.

  28. says

    The majority of folks who have small businesses have success in spite of government, not because of it.

    Complete and utter bullshit.

    They can only do their business because the state built their roads, supplied their power, and minted and maintained their currency.

    The very ability to DO business and have money is because of the government.

    Broboxly, why must you continue to embarrass yourself time after time with your dismal grasp of basic civics?

  29. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    broboxley:

    I have 3 small business owners on my street. They invested all of their saved money into equipment for their businesses.

    This is what I’m talking about. This is also what I believe the President was referring to.
    The business owners you’re talking about didn’t build their businesses all on their own.
    Did they consult anyone about the legal aspects of their business?
    Did they hire a company to build their establishment?
    Did they have to work with the city to get all the required permits?
    Did anyone influence them to create the business?
    Did anyone provide financing to help them create their business?

    This is my point: No matter who they are, they did NOT build their business all by themselves.
    That does NOT diminish their ideas. That doesn’t mean that their central concept isn’t theirs. It does mean that they would not be able to have their dream reach fruition without assistance. LOTS of it.

    They didn’t build it.
    (again, President Obama *should* have said “They didn’t built it…alone”)

  30. broboxley OT says

    Bullshit yourself Ing, no one has an obligation to start a business just because the government prints money. The American fur trade existed outside of government and todays large narcotic trade here exists in spite of government. Somalia has business and no government. Government is a nice to have, not a requirement.

    Government does not supply roads and electricity to remote areas of this country. There are businesses all over Alaska that do have neither roads or electricity. The government does supply cash and it is welcomed. It is not a requirement. There are large barter communities in the US that exist without the governments money.

    So whine all you want, a government is a nice to have, not a requirement

  31. broboxley OT says

    Hi Tony,

    This is what I’m talking about. This is also what I believe the President was referring to.
    The business owners you’re talking about didn’t build their businesses all on their own.

    I will answer the following one by one

    Did they consult anyone about the legal aspects of their business?
    No, they are illegals.

    Did they hire a company to build their establishment?
    they work out of pickups and one ton stepside vans. Their house they live in and their shed “is the business”

    Did they have to work with the city to get all the required permits?
    no, they dont have permits they are illegal aliens

    Did anyone influence them to create the business?
    Yes, everyone that hired them for labor and stiffed them because they couldnt complain

    Did anyone provide financing to help them create their business?

  32. broboxley OT says

    Tony, missed your last question
    They dont have financing, they did everything with their savings

  33. Amphiox says

    The majority of folks who have small businesses have success in spite of government, not because of it.

    They THINK this ONLY because the government in America and other stable, first world countries has done its job too well.

    All the BIG things that government does for small business that is absolutely essential for any business to succeed, things like the infrastructure upon which businesses run, the pool of educated citizenry from which the small business can recruit employees without having to shoulder the complete cost of teaching them how to read, write, communicate, and do math with money, the stable, relatively lawful society zeitgist in which customers feel free and comfortable to spend, and in which a business can open its doors to the public and do business without fear of being overrun by a looting mob, are done well enough by government that it almost is invisible, the background to be taken for granted.

    And this leaves the LITTLE things that constitute the COST of having government deal with the big things, like taxes, regulations, inspections, which in reality are just minor annoyances, the only VISIBLE aspect of government activity with respect to businesses, and so libertarians look at these annoyances, and their “government BAD” reflex goes boink.

    It is, really, yet another example of unrecognized privilege. Only in a society where government has done its job properly do any citizens involved in small businesses have the privilege and luxury of being able to complain about trivialities like tax rates and government regulations. And only in a society where government has done its job relatively WELL do citizens and businesses have the privilege of the annoyance from such trivialities being the things that they have the most to complain about, relative to other concerns.

    Only in a society where government SUCCEEDS is it possible for libertarian ideology to exist, complain about government, and be viable. In places where government fails, people are far too busy worrying about getting the government to work properly to contemplate libertarian ideas.

  34. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    broboxley:

    Those were meant as examples. I apologize for not making that clear. I didn’t mean to imply that they needed to be refuted one by one.
    What I meant to get at was that there is NO way each of those business owners created their business without assistance from someone else.
    Those examples were meant to point out that there is so much involved in creating a business that no one can do it alone. I’m not trying to imply that the government is necessarily involved-though it often is.
    Think about just creating a building.
    Think about having someone check the plumbing.
    What about people checking the lighting?
    People to help paint.
    People to lay tile.
    There’s just too much involved (hell, labor alone is too much for one person) for any one person (unless we’re talking about an online business at home; even there, I have doubts).

  35. McC2lhu saw what you did there. says

    re: The Lounge graphic.

    I quite enjoy a universe wherein a spider, through mere accidents of evolution, can channel Kermit the frog on his back. I want to see the video version where he waves all eight arms and screams ‘YAAAAaaaaaAAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAYYYY!’

  36. broboxley OT says

    Amphiox #45 excellent post and directly addresses american libertarian complaints. In places where government fails it is tribal and or communal efforts that allows trade to proceed not libertarian ideals. I am using tribal in a very broad sense here, not strictly along large family groupings.

    example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Vogler couldnt have existed without government to sustain his anti government ideas.

    no roads, no electricity no government trained employees money welcomed business http://www.alagnaklodge.com/?gclid=CNOGkJLWlbICFadNTAodCgUAXQ

  37. Nutmeg says

    Nightjar:

    Although my mom had the opposite problem of JAL’s with me. I would cry when she made me wear a dress. No, not just pout, cry.

    Pretty similar here. I flat-out refused to wear a dress or skirt from age 8 to 16. My folks never gave me a hard time about it, though. It probably helped that I went to elementary school outside the city, so tomboy behaviour was fairly acceptable and common, and no one teased me about it until middle school.

    I don’t recall ever having a “pink” stage. If there was as much princess stuff when I was a kid (90s) as there is now, I don’t remember it. I was a big fan of Rainbow Brite when I was about 5. My memory of it is fuzzy now, but I think it was probably better from a feminism standpoint than the whole princess thing.

    It took me a while to learn that I can be feminine sometimes and practical most of the time. I will occasionally wear a skirt these days, but I only enjoy it if it’s my choice. If I have to dress up to conform to someone else’s expectations, I get cranky.

  38. Amphiox says

    So whine all you want, a government is a nice to have, not a requirement

    And therefore goverment makes it easier for a business to succeed, and without it a business is more likely to fail.

    So business DOES NOT succeed “in spite” of government anywhere.

    There is still government in Somalia, even if it does not work very well, and without it, business would be impossible there.

    The drug trade? It would be completely pointless if there wasn’t an international economy into which drug profits are funneled and converted into actual goods and services for the people engaged in it. This international economy is maintained by the activities of multiple governments. The drug trade is a parasite on it and would wither and die without it.

    Barter communities? The key word is community. That means there are rules, means of enforcement, maintenance of order, and conflict resolution. ie GOVERNMENT.

    All business is based on exchange. All exchange requires a framework of rules that all parties must follow. It is government that MAKES this framework and ensures that this framework is enforced.

    No government, no business. Period.

  39. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Starstuff;

    I have a lot of friends who are into that thing. I went along with them a couple weeks ago; so I’m only nearly completely clueless now.

    I also seem to be developing an aversion to spoilers now; better wait to get back from the weekend.

  40. Amphiox says

    In places where government fails it is tribal and or communal efforts that allows trade to proceed not libertarian ideals.

    Tribal = government.

    Communal = government.

    What, you think the federal, state, and municipal types of government are the only kinds of government there are?

    Trade is exchange. Exchange requires rules. The creation, maintenance, and enforcement of rules is government.

  41. Socio-gen, something something... says

    broboxley:
    Um, I’m not sure if you’re talking about epidurals (pain relief) or episiotomies (cutting to widen the vaginal opening) there, but…since 2006, it’s been considered best practice by the ACOG to avoid episiotomy in most cases, where possible (thus, “tear[ing] out naturally”).

    Summary of Recommendations and Conclusions:
    The following recommendation and conclusion are based on good and consistent scientific evidence (Level A): Restricted use of episiotomy is preferable to routine use of episiotomy.

    Median episiotomy is associated with higher rates of injury to the anal sphincter and rectum than is mediolateral episiotomy.
    [...]
    Routine episiotomy does not prevent pelvic floor damage leading to incontinence.

    Episiotomy. ACOG Practice Bulletin No. 71. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. Obstet Gynecol, 2006;107:957–62.

    WRT your small business friends: how much business would they have without electricity? Without roads for their customers to use? Without snow removal or road repair? Without water and septic/sewer systems?

    My parents are small business owners. They pay quite a lot in taxes as well, from Social Security and FICA to property taxes. Their business exists because of the internet, rural electrification programs, military spending, student loans, public education, public works projects, small business loans, tax incentives, multiple SBA programs for entrepreneurs.

    After the flooding from Hurricane Irene last year, they benefited from FEMA money to repair their home, which saved them from having to tap the business for the funds, and from the National Guard troops who brought supplies, from the county-owned landfill that provided free dumpsters to allow them to dispose of the wreckage without going broke, from the state Health offering free tetanus boosters to those dealing with damaged homes/businesses, from the various government entities that repaired and restarted the town-owned sewer plant.

    They might have started the company and built their business up with blood, sweat, and tears, but they did not do it all by their wee lonesomes. Unlike your friends, they seem to understand they benefited from current and past investments by the national, state, and local governments to whom they pay taxes, and feel it is important to pay those investments forward to the next generation of entrepreneurs.

  42. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Starstuff, Ing:
    I have never regretted not having cable quite as much as I do tonight.

    *sigh*

  43. John Morales says

    Nutmeg,

    If I have to dress up to conform to someone else’s expectations, I get cranky.

    “Cranky” is an understatement regarding my attitude where suits and ties are concerned.

    (This business of dangling a bit of cloth from one’s neck being “professional” is particularly bullshitty)

  44. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    John:
    Fuck yes.
    I hate having my throat constricted like that. One of my prior jobs required all male bartenders to wear slacks, dress shirts and ties. I disliked it for the entire 7 years I worked there. I’m a jeans and tee shirt/polo kinda guy.
    I agree about the ‘professional’ look.

  45. broboxley OT says

    Amphiox #53
    Government a set of rules over a political entity
    Governance a set of business rules mutual agreed upon

    I was addressing the body politic

    Certainly mutual agreement of trade terms is governance, I was not looking at it in that manner.

    #54 Socio-gen, thanks for the info

    Your parents benefited but my neighbors are illegals, slightly different. They pay federal taxes but dont get anything back personally.

  46. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Ing: Email sent.

    Nutmeg: I know, right??? I’m afraid to go anywhere else on the internet tonight, just in case someone spills something.

  47. consciousness razor says

    Yes we all pay for roads, but a new and sniny road with electricity doesn’t do a damn thing for a business man with no customers. He goes broke, and has to get a job.

    So he walks for miles across open fields which he built to find that job, and after much sweat and toil, he does. Yes, O frabjous day! He gets a job, with customers who appear out of nowhere. Then the government takes it all away from him, and everyone lived happily ever after.

    The End.

  48. Nutmeg says

    John Morales:

    “Cranky” is an understatement regarding my attitude where suits and ties are concerned.

    I don’t mind wearing something nice to honour a special occasion; I can understand that. I get frustrated when the “something nice” has to be a dress or skirt. I’m not particularly butch most days, but if I have to wear a skirt to something, I come home and put on my butchiest clothes for the rest of the day. And I usually try to go do something that leaves me covered in sweat, dirt, grease, and/or blood. After that, I feel like I’ve evened things out.(Irrational, yes. Also satisfying.)

    And I feel the same way about heels that you do about ties. Burn them all.

  49. Richard Austin says

    My department requires all men to wear ties, dress shirts, and slacks. Full suits are preferred.

    Women have no dress code. I have literally seen some of the women come to work in jeans and t-shirts repeatedly, so I assume there’s been no repercussion.

    I hate ties. This isn’t to say I dislike dressing up, but I am a master at doing so without a tie. I have, therefore, frustrated my director (though he actually likes it) by coming to work in dress pants, vests, and shirts, sometimes with jackets, looking far more formal and “presentable” but not wearing a tie. Just because I’m a douche and I want to prove a point.

    When I do wear a tie, it’s for an outfit so unconventional but still according to the rules that I get comments from *everyone* about it. I have one that looks like the company logo (same colors in same proportions), and another than is referred to as my “good humor man” outfit, and a third where strangers on the street comment about how shiny (literally) it is.

    (This is what “rules lawyering” looks like in real life :P )

  50. Socio-gen, something something... says

    broboxley:
    They benefit indirectly, if not directly. The vehicles and homes they own and the tools they use are built to safety codes enforced by the government. The streets they drive on are, more or less, safe to do so because of driving rules the government enforces. The food they eat and the drinks they consume must meet federal standards. The medicines they take and the doctors they see are also regulated. Those things translate into the ability to do the work of their business.

    In addition, their legal children and grandchildren go to schools that must meet educational standards, workplaces that must meet various regulations (like overtime pay, health and safety codes, equal opportunity laws), and receive benefits of citizenship — through and enforced by the government.

    Getting $$ is not the only benefit of government.

  51. says

    Know how else businesses are made because of gov? Because it’s very useful to have customers who can’t go “Psyche!” and back out of contracts fucking you over unless you get involved in fisticuffs.

    Businesses: THEY EXIST BECAUSE OF THE GOVERNMENT

  52. John Morales says

    chigau:

    Can’t you tie-haters just wear clip-ons?

    Way to miss the point.

    (You imagine I can’t tie a slip-knot?)

    Ties are utterly useless fashion accoutrements, and uncomfortable to boot — and fashion is for other people.

    Like Tony, I had a job where I was required to wear one; no small part of the reason I quit EDS after three years with them.

    (bah)

  53. John Morales says

    Richard,

    (This is what “rules lawyering” looks like in real life :P )

    Heh. In my case, I got a 50-cent job from the Goodwill store and never ever washed it or ironed it.

    (And, whenever possible, I removed it and successfully argued it was on the basis of OH&S (I worked with machinery such as band printers and shredders)).

  54. consciousness razor says

    Can’t you tie-haters just wear clip-ons?

    I’m not bothered by wearing a tie, but the collar is really what’s uncomfortable. The tie just means the collar can’t be hanging open. You have to button the shirt all the way to the top, and that goes for clip-ons just the same. (If the tie is tighter than the collar, of course it looks and feels even worse, but that’s easy enough to avoid.) Wearing a collar extender and a shirt that fits well is about the best you can do.

  55. chigau (違わない) says

    John Morales
    My point was that clip-on ties do not go around your neck.
    When I wear a tie, it’s always a clip-on.

  56. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Bwaaahahahaha! My Facebook is erupting with outraged mobile posts from people back home whose power went out during the last 20 minutes of Doctor Who.

    Apparently they’re having quite a storm in the Twin Tiers. LOL

  57. Ogvorbis: broken says

    Audley:

    Cool. I likes me some high heels. I have a pair of wonderful cowboy boots (Durangos) that are very comfortable with my high arch and help take the stress off my knee. I also have a pair of Danner fire boots (picture calf-high hiking boots with a 2 inch hell) that do the same thing for my feet and knee.

  58. ChasCPeterson says

    I like to say that I last wore a tie at my first wedding.
    It isn’t true, though.
    I also wore a tie once after that, standing up at my friend PV’s wedding, on account of he stood up for mine.
    That was in 19 uh 89.
    Last time I wore a tie.

  59. Richard Austin says

    Audley:

    I love men who hate ties.

    Tell you what, guys, I’ll trade you your ties for the several pairs of high heels that I own. I have big feet, so they actually might fit some of you!

    ;)

    Two wrong don’t make a right. And me being in heels would definitely be a wrong. I’m 6’2″ already.

  60. John Morales says

    chigau, and my point is that dangling a bit of cloth from the neck is a silly thing and that it’s seen as respectable is plain stupid.

    (Imagine painting the tip of one’s nose blue was seen as “professional” and being well-presented, if you want to get some idea of how I see it)

  61. says

    V ybirq bml va vg naq qvq yvxr gur ohvyq hc bs n Pnaba Fhr sbe n terng cnl bss. Vg pnabavmrq n ybg bs zl snaba: Gur Qnyrxf unir n zragny oybpx ntnvafg xvyyvat gur Qbpgbe, gur pbyberq Qnyrxf ner ehyvat pnfgrf naq zrgnyyvp ner fbyqvref.

    V fb jnagrq BmlQnyrx gb or n pbzcnavba gubhtu! Jr jrer gbyq fur jnf gur arj pbzcnavba fb rvgure vg’f n snxr bhg yvxr Qblyr va Natry be V znl trg zl jvfu

  62. consciousness razor says

    That was in 19 uh 89.
    Last time I wore a tie.

    How can that be? What about at a funeral or something?

  63. says

    Richard,
    You are right. I’m much more of a comfort gal, myself, so I’m pissy that high heeks are a standard part of dressing up (and let’s face it, flats are only moderately more comfortable). I just wish I could wear sneakers everywhere.

  64. says

    @ Ing

    Lrnu, V qba’g haqrefgnaq gur pbzcnavba guvat. V’z fher gurl svyzrq zber jvgu gung npgerff, fb fur zhfg or n pbzcnavba. Ohg ubj ner gurl tbvat gb chyy guvf bss? Fur qvqa’g erpbtavmr gur Qbpgbe ng gur ortvaavat naq fur ghearq vagb n qnyrx (naq zbfg yvxryl qvrq) ng gur raq. Jung ner gurl cynlvat ng urer?

  65. Richard Austin says

    Audley:

    You are right. I’m much more of a comfort gal, myself, so I’m pissy that high heeks are a standard part of dressing up (and let’s face it, flats are only moderately more comfortable). I just wish I could wear sneakers everywhere.

    Come work at a hospital. Everyone wears sneakers or comfy shoes. My official “dress shoes” for the office are actually a pair of faux-suede crocs (not the plasticy ones, they make “real shoes” too).

  66. Ogvorbis: broken says

    Two inch heels are cute. :) I have a pair of 6 inch stilettos you can try (with no arch support, natch).

    I can just picture the injury paperwork at the fire. “Ogvorbis fell while wearing footwear inappropriate for the circumstance, ie, six inch stileto heels . . .

  67. John Morales says

    Ing, nah, it was the retconning of the Doctor as other than an irascible old coot that killed it.

    (Well, that and the soap-opera aspects)

  68. Ogvorbis: broken says

    I just noticed something. I was reading through the pseudonyms and names under which we comment. See if anyone else notices a pattern here:

    Ing: The World is Dying
    Ogvorbis: broken
    StarStuff, a soulless cunt
    Audley Z. Darkheart, the joke killer
    Tony *King of Hellmouth*
    Captaintripps

    Just from that short selection, does anyone else notice the pattern? Save for Captaintripps (whose moniker is suitably depressing all on its own), does anyone else notice that we tend to have rather morbid and/or depressing ‘nyms? Not all of us, but certainly a fair number? Or am I imaging things and just need sleep?

  69. says

    @ Nzl znlor V’z orvat vafrafvgvir ohg V’z abg fher ubj gung vf gung uhtr bs n ceboyrz? abg pregnvagl bar gung trgf gb qvibepr naq teee net yriry?

    @Ogvorbis

    Took my name from a MST3K riff.

  70. says

    Richard,
    Thankfully, my job has a casual dress code (something along the lines of: your clothes should be clean and covering the naughty bits). I supervise a small office for a company that distributes automotive collision parts, so not the most professional looking group of people*. Sneakers and workboots are the expected footwear.

    *Managers and sales staff are expected to wear polo shirts with the company logo, but since I’m now roughly the size of an Airstream trailer, I can wear regular tee shirts.

    Oggie:

    Ogvorbis fell while wearing footwear inappropriate for the circumstance, ie, six inch stileto heels . . .

    That are a fabulous shade of green!

  71. says

    Astute comment from Alicublog:

    The real problem for Rmoney & Co. is that the only reason why Eastwood was considered such a catch for them, especially with his moderate-to-liberal social views, was that they were hoping that some of that charisma and gravitas would rub off on the most un-jazzy man in America (although Ryan and Santorum and, well, actually quite a lot of the attendees could give Mittens a run for his money there). What they got instead was Grandpa Simpson trying to tell “The Aristocrats” and losing track of the narrative halfway through. It rather suits them.

  72. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Ogvorbis:

    I don’t know, really.

    My nym’s certainly not depressing; CZAs are beautiful.

  73. Ogvorbis: broken says

    Took my name from a MST3K riff.

    I wasn’t making any accusations or even implying anything. Honest. Our ‘nyms are part of our online personality. I merely thought that I had noticed something. Again, no offense intended (and yes, I do know that intent is not magic (though magic can happen in tents)). Sorry.

  74. Ogvorbis: broken says

    My nym’s certainly not depressing; CZAs are beautiful.

    I wasn’t trying to imply that everyone’s ‘nyms could be considered depressing (I mean, could ChasCPeterson or JohnMorales be considered depressing (in or out of context)?) I was just making a useless observation. Sorry. I should know by now that when I try things like that they tend to fail. I guess I was right and I really do need to go to bed. Sorry.

  75. says

    @ Ogvorbis
    My nym addition is from this manboobz article: http://manboobz.com/2012/07/30/the-spearhead-educated-women-are-destined-for-spinsterhood/

    And yeah, these times are very depressing indeed.

    @ Ing
    V qba’g trg vg rvgure. Fur pbhyq unir whfg gbyq uvz gb ortva jvgu naq gurl pbhyq unir jbexrq vg bhg. Vg’f abg yvxr gurve nera’g zhygvcyr jnlf gb orpbzr n cnerag. Vg’f jrveq. V’z bayl unys vagrerfgrq gb frr jurer vg tbrf sebz urer. [Doctor Who spoiler]

  76. John Morales says

    Ing, cripes!

    (Your erudition is awesome)

    Ogvorbis, I think you’re indulging in selection bias — there are probably as many other sobriquets that don’t support your hypothesis.

    (The glass ain’t half-empty!)

  77. Ogvorbis: broken says

    After the “Someone explain this to me” thread weirdness, I was thinking of tacking on “we are Legion” instead. Less depressing?

    No, I am not asking anyone to change his or her ‘nym. It was an observation and was really not meant as an attack.

    I was just providing context. How’s this?

    Again, I was not trying to tell people to change!

    (I thought the cheese was named Horace?)

    Sorry, all. I didn’t think when I made that comment. My bad.

  78. chigau (違わない) says

    John Morales
    I’ve always thought of ties as the one way office-dwellers could express a little individuality in a blue-pin-stripe world.
    But then I have been objecting to dress-codes since high-school.
    I was in the same school from kindergarten to Grade 9 in a small, rural school. A dress-code would have been laughable.
    My first term at high-school, girls were not allowed to wear trousers.
    Which was no joke at -20°C.

  79. Ogvorbis: broken says

    Ogvorbis, I think you’re indulging in selection bias — there are probably as many other sobriquets that don’t support your hypothesis.

    I agree. I had looked at the recent comments and it just hit me. Sorry. Really.

    G’night. I should be able to communicate without telling people what to do tomorrow. Sorry.

  80. Wowbagger, Antipodean Dervish says

    Ogvorbis wrote:

    Just from that short selection, does anyone else notice the pattern? Save for Captaintripps (whose moniker is suitably depressing all on its own), does anyone else notice that we tend to have rather morbid and/or depressing ‘nyms? Not all of us, but certainly a fair number? Or am I imaging things and just need sleep?

    I’m currently bucking the trend.

  81. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    It took me a while to learn that I can be feminine sometimes and practical most of the time.

    Wouldn’t it be better to stake and bury the conceit that practical is exclusive with “feminine?”

  82. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Funny;

    When I went to convocation 2 weeks ago, the dress code was dress shirt/pants, shoes, and some sort of tie for men, and skirt/blouse or shirt/pants for women.

    Patriarchy at work.

  83. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Many nyms are morbid, yes. Mine is not – it is however, rather braggy.

    In other news? The SpokesGay is adorable. Also, loons produce a really cool sound.

  84. John Morales says

    chigau,

    I’ve always thought of ties as the one way office-dwellers could express a little individuality in a blue-pin-stripe world.

    Fair enough, but you didn’t go far enough along…

    (That’s like saying that one expresses individuality by using a non-typical style of make-up — but they still wear make-up!)

    In passing, I note that there was a (relatively) recent time when men didn’t wear make-up (after the time when they did :) ) so that my above would be women-specific.

    (Herd-animals, we are)

  85. Nutmeg says

    Azkyroth:

    Wouldn’t it be better to stake and bury the conceit that practical is exclusive with “feminine?”

    There was probably a better way for me to express that, but I couldn’t think of it. Personally, I find that my more feminine clothes are less practical. Others with more fashion smarts/different lifestyles may be able to be both feminine and practical at the same time.

  86. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    My point is what I consider to be the obvious implications of the following observations:

    *The meaning and scope of “practical” is in large part responsive to non-cultural external factors.
    *The meaning and scope of “feminine” is (at minimum) in large part arbitrary.

  87. chigau (違わない) says

    Don’t get me started on women’s clothing…
    too late
    A man’s 3-piece-suit has something like a dozen pockets, many of which can accommodate a wallet, a cell-phone, car-keys, hotel-room-key, etc.
    A woman’s “suit” has, maybe, three pockets, none of which can accommodate so much as a lipstick.
    (Purses. meh. When I carry a purse, it’s as much a weapon as a storage device.)

  88. says

    So, at the demonstrations today we got word that the local MRAs were putting up posters just down the street. After the anti-choicers left, a bunch of us decided to go remove these posters.

    When we got there, the MRAs were still there postering. We decided to go in anyway; the MRAs responded with the predictable cries of free speech, which I countered with “free speech protects you from the government, not social consequences”.

    So, the main windbag MRA came up to me while I was helping to take down some of the posters, and kept bloviating. I can’t remember how -exactly- it went, but it ended somewhat like this:

    MRA: “Look, I’m trying to exercise free speech and you’re playing games–”
    Me: “No. Again, free speech only protects you from the government. We’re just some citizens who don’t approve of your message, not the government, so -middle finger-”.

    Shortly after that, the MRAs called the police. And not the non-emergency dispatch line either, they called 911. Cops make me run, but, well…it did not go well for the MRAs at all. The cops were rightfully annoyed, and told the MRAs that if the posters are being taken down then obviously the community doesn’t approve, so they should just stop postering and causing conflict. Yay!

    What’s more, well, um…it turns out that (link to A Voice for Men, so do not click if you’re not interested in that tripe — I’m just linking it for disclosure) one of the MRAs out postering was John the Other. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if JtO was the windbag that I flipped off.

    =D happy day.

  89. chigau (違わない) says

    Setár
    I get to Vancouver occasionally and my time is usually full but next time I shall make a strong effort to buy you a very large cookie or beverage of you choice.
    *clenched tentacle*

  90. John Morales says

    From Setár’s link:

    For the past several weeks, John the Other and several other members of the organization VancouverMRA (VMRA), have been peacefully posting posters that target issues affecting men and boys in western culture, and that display the URL’s of this website as well as their own web presence.
     
    The posters have been routinely vandalized by a group of individuals, and, in one circumstance, one of these individuals assaulted a safety officer of a construction site who instructed them to stop tearing down the posters at that location, which was within his authority.

    <snicker>

    I’m rather amused by that rhetorical effort at pomposity.

    (Men and boys!
    A group of individuals*!

    *(one of whom assaulted a safety officer, which was within his authority!)

  91. cicely says

    (Imagine painting the tip of one’s nose blue was seen as “professional” and being well-presented, if you want to get some idea of how I see it)

    Imagine painting one’s eyelids blue was seen as “professional” and well-presented.

    Oh. Wait.
    -

  92. cicely (Something Morbid & Darkly Humorous) says

    (Not that we’ve done the discussion on make-up in the workplace before.)
    -

  93. lenblakely says

    Been on Reddit for a couple months now. Am I the only gnostic atheist in the world?*

    *I do not believe in god and I am entirely certain that he does not exist.

    The thing is I had thought all along that “atheist” meant people that did not believe that go exists. Reference:

    http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/atheist?q=atheist

    Definition of atheist
    noun
    a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods: he is a committed atheist

  94. MissEla says

    Wow. This is the first time I’ve seen a Mabus post here before it was taken down. Go away, dude.

  95. says

    Thanks Pteryxx. It’s amusing he thinks anyone would be fooled by the line “Not Dennis Markuze – but a FAN!”

    Setár, hearty conga rats taking down the MRA posters and flipping the bird to JtO. Nice that the Vancouver police came to the conclusion that the MRA’s complaint about ‘free speech!!!1!’ was essentially frivolous.

  96. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Oggie:
    I see what you’re saying about ‘nyms. I don’t agree though. Mine is a pop culture reference (to my favorite tv show).

  97. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Audley:
    I’m still awake. Usually am always up at this time. Right now K and I, having just finished watching WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT, are laying around lazy. He’s buying crap on AMAZON so I figured to check in the Lounge.

  98. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Oggie:
    I don’t think anyone was criticizing you.
    ING:
    I love your gravatar.

  99. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Setar:
    Why are you being so mean to those sweet MRAs? They didn’t mean anything by publicly displaying the stupidity and misogyny.

  100. says

    Good morning

    Audley
    Well, Mr.’s aunt stood quietly in a corner, so that wasn’t problem.
    We also have a very close relationship, so that was OK.
    What’s this thing about mothers thinking that they still take a more prominent place in such situations than their daughters’ partners?
    We can only hope to do better with our daughters (not only in the delivery-room, should they end up there)

    Tony
    I really hope that works out one day.

    Thunk
    I have children, I love them, I consciously decided to have them. Speaking from the experience of a full-mode parent:
    That’s something nobody should ever do without really wanting it.
    Parenting is a fucking responsible job, because you don’t fuck up a business deal but a person.

    +++
    hospital policies
    Ours was that you could have with you whom you wanted to, but at some point they would make a cut and they would also reserve the right to kick people out if they interfered. I think they had some births with up to 6 friends and family members in the room, getting in the way, giving “good advice” and plain old keeping everybody from doing their job.
    I think one of the main problems is that women are still not “allowed” to say NO.

    portia, Indian Health Care doesnt believe in pain relief, they barely believe in Doctors(badly understaffed) lots of caring and bright nursing staff tho.

    Oh, but didn’t you know that pain is good for us? It’s necessary, without it you’re not a real mum!
    In no other area of healthcare would anybody ever debate the need and avaibility of pain relief. Probably that’s because of Eve, apples and the fact that men don’t experience it.

    +++

    Enthusiastic second on Pippi Longstocking.
    (even though she’s not a princess)

    Sadly she is. Her father is King of Takka-Tukka
    I love the books and films, but there are some serious racist issues there. In the original she’s nigger-princess
    Another example of good people fucking up badly. Astrid Lindren was a very progressive woman, yet when she wrote Pippi she didn’t understand that she perpetuated racism (and classism. Her heroes are usually pretty middle-class at least)

    Nightjar

    “Because it’s not a normal day, sweety, it’s a wedding/baptism/other important celebration, all the little girls will be wearing pretty dresses too.”

    It’s not like there aren’t cute/smart pants for girls around. One of my favourite combinations for #1 is jeans and a checkered/tartan blouse.

    Clearly, he disagreed that the water was anything but “wet” and “cold”, and was determined to punish the priest by not letting anyone hear what he had to say from that moment on. Heh.

    My friend’s a Lutheran sexton and they make sure that the water is nicely warm.

    dianne

    Sorry, Louis, but drug companies are rarely interested in real basic research and charities just don’t have that kind of money.

    The HPV vaccine is a good example. The basic research was done at a German university. The money is made by drug companies.
    My BIL is currently doing research on a new way to help people with currently untreatable brain tumors. Should that ever result in any kind of succesfull treatment, the money won’t be made by the university hospital that pays his wages now.

    otrame

    So yeah. Girls can be a lot of things. I think many little boys have fewer options than girls do, these days. At least at this age. A few more years and the pressure to be what “boys like” will be pretty strong.

    Only in theory. Practically the girl stuff is so much pushed onto them that if they’re not a pretty independent spirit all by themselves, the pressure is just too big.
    A friend’s daughter recently had her first schoolday. They counted 25 identical “Hello Kitty” bagpacks. That’s not much “choice”.

    Setar
    Yay! BUt, since you’re part of the Feminazis of the Femistasi of the gynoracy, don’t you count as honorary governemnt?

  101. says

    Horde signal!

    Someone – conveniently named ‘John Smith’ – started a petition on change.org to have Rebecca Watson removed from the Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe podcast. To date, it has received 24 signatures; you can find it by adding the relevant http text to the following partial url:

    change.org/petitions/skeptic-s-guide-to-the-universe-remove-rebecca-watson-from-the-show

    Quote:
    Skepticism should be about celebrating scientific skepticism and critical thinking, not about pushing particular philosophies or ideologies which alienate potential supporters.
    We think that regardless of Rebecca Watson’s controversial beliefs, her personality is anathema to the free exchange of ideas. She is divisive, hostile and authoriarian. None of these traits promote scientific skepticism, but instead hinder it.

    So in response, Hayley Stevens of the Heresy Club has started a counter-petition to keep Rebecca on the SGU podcast: please feel free to sign it and help smash the other petition!

    http://www.change.org/petitions/skeptics-guide-to-the-universe-podcast-keep-rebecca-watson-on-the-show

  102. Rorie says

    @167

    Signed.

    I don’t really understand the mentality that says it’s alright to go after and debunk conspiracy theories and religious claims, but not these silly backward ideas that some of these people seem to have about women.

    Also, hello all. I don’t post here that often. But I have been closely following the discussions here over the last few months.

  103. apucalypso says

    I find it astounding that whoever started the petition to kick Rebecca off the SGU is apparently incapable of seeing the irony in what he is accusing Rebecca of and what he himself is trying to achieve with his petition.
    That is a level of tunnelvision and overall fail I would normally associate with creationists, anti-vaccers, etc..

  104. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    The hypocrisy of the MRA complaints against against RW is interesting. They expect all complaints by womenz to be treated with extreme hyperskepticism. That way they can state there is no harassment problem, just womenz who can’t take a joke, or who are oversensitive.

    They don’t like it when they come here and people like myself apply the same hyperskepticism to what they say. You can almost see the steam of anger rise from their posts, but they just don’t get it. If they want to be taken seriously, they must take the womenz complaints seriously. And when their childish methods are called and their evidenceless assertions rejected they just don’t have the honesty and integrity to admit they are wrong. Hence the petition.

  105. Owen says

    Petition signed. Re: ties, I wore a tie to a formal dinner in 1999. And never since, except for one Friday last October when instead of my usual jeans/sarcastic tshirt outfit I wore the full suit/dress shirt/tie/dress shoes/cufflinks etc.
    Let’s just say “Operation Mindfuck” was a resounding success.

  106. opposablethumbs says

    How could I forget Pippi Longstocking as an example of a princess on her own terms (and yes, pity about the unthinking racism).

    Re “built it themselves” – don’t people get to use the idea of barn-raising, especially in the USA, to counter this? Isn’t the whole point of the barn-raising idea that people can’t do it on their own?

    Mind you, I suppose this has been completely divorced in most people’s minds from what they think of as “government” and probably gets completely co-opted by those pushing the charities and churches model :(

    Also, YAY!!!! Setár! ::clenched tentacle salute::

    The only people who should be present when someone is giving birth are the medical professional(s) they need and the person(s) they actually want. The idea of a crowd – even of close family and friends – would freak me the fuck out, though obviously I get it that somebody else might love it and feel supported. The whole point is to support the woman and make her feel better, not entertain others or give them a “magical experience” ffs.

  107. says

    It seems the petition to remove Rebecca from the SGU podcast is now getting some hilarious trolling, while the petition to keep her has past the 100 signatures mark.

    Rebecca herself signed the petition against keeping her! Mwahahaha…

  108. says

    In preparation for the exaltation of Mitt Romney to the Presidency, for years mormon leaders have been softening or hiding doctrines that might lose them votes from other religious persons. For example, they made it more difficult to check the database of necrodunked Jews.

    I thought I would point one of the other hypocritical obfuscations, one in which mormon leaders are tying to cover up a core doctrine that disturbs evangelical christians. It started when Prophet Hinckley was alive and went on 60 minutes. He hemmed and hawed about the concept that worthy mormons become Gods after they die. He said he wasn’t sure that mormons teach that.

    Balderdash.

    http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-59,00.html
    Gospel Principles lesson #47

    Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

    They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).

    They will become gods.

    They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.

    They will receive a fulness of joy.

    They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have–all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

    Third-Grade edition: “We can become like our Heavenly Father”

    http://lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng
    They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23). …Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

    Here is the change made in the 2009 manual. http://www.mrm.org/gospel-principles
    This information comes from ex-mormons. See Chapter 47.

    …it is changed from becoming gods, or like God, to being with God.

    Looks like they whitewashed the entire basis of mormonism out of the doctrine.

  109. Ogvorbis: broken says

    I see what you’re saying about ‘nyms. I don’t agree though. Mine is a pop culture reference (to my favorite tv show).

    And I admitted that I made a mistake and I was out of line. I apologized. What more do you need? Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. etc.

    But it is Friday and I am getting holiday pay plus Sunday differential today.

  110. andrewmiles says

    Wondering if someone can help me – trying to find out if there is any difference in the genetic closeness of Pan Paniscus and humans and Pan Trog and humans?

    Is on species of Pan closer genetically than the other or are they the same? I have my own opinion, but would love to find out for sure and see some decent article or paper as validation!

  111. ChasCPeterson says

    It’s Pan paniscus and Pan troglodytes, and both the italics and capitalization patterns are parts of the names.

    Present-day chimps and bonobos are much more closely related to each other than either is to humans. Therefore they are equally closely related to humans. Opinin doesn’t enter into it.

    decent place to start

  112. says

    In preparation for the exaltation of Mitt Romney to the Presidency

    What was the deal with the “Jeb Bush 2016″ advertising everywhere at the RNC? Do they not think that Romney can win, or get reelected? I thought that was very revealing.

  113. ChasCPeterson says

    What was the deal with the “Jeb Bush 2016″ advertising everywhere at the RNC?

    um, dude, wasn’t it just the Daily Show?

  114. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    well g’morn everyone.

    Hooray, Setar!

    Also, I don’t sign change.org petitions as a matter of course.

    Also, SQRRAWK!!!

  115. says

    Actually, Oggie, I thought there was an interesting sort of poetry to it. Kind of a freeform rage at the world kind of thing if you remove the nyms:

    The World is Dying
    broken
    a soulless cunt
    the joke killer
    *King of Hellmouth*

    (Burma Shave?)

  116. andrewmiles says

    “It’s Pan paniscus and Pan troglodytes, and both the italics and capitalization patterns are parts of the names.

    Present-day chimps and bonobos are much more closely related to each other than either is to humans. Therefore they are equally closely related to humans. Opinin doesn’t enter into it.”

    I know that they are more closely related to each other than to humans.

    I’ll try and rephrase: I was hoping for some specific data, paper or article on the genetic closeness of each Pan species compared individually with humans, if any exists. If none exists because it is accepted they are identically genetically distant to humans then something confirming that would be good to read too.

    I am asking because a biology teacher has been trying to tell me that Bonobos are genetically closer to humans than common Chimps are, whereas my reading of the literature is that they are equally closely related.

  117. Patricia, OM says

    Still gutting “The Pink”. Le sigh. One bit of good news, the drywall we assumed would be water damaged – isn’t. Yeah!

  118. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Patricia #188, well, you good news explains the Pullet Patrol run on dry martinis.

  119. Pteryxx says

    Great snarky roundup on Republican race cards:

    http://www.timwise.org/2012/08/of-republican-race-cards-and-white-denial/

    We know you are, but what are we?

    Seriously, that’s pretty much it.

    And so, for instance, they insist that the left has “racism on the brain,” that we “see racism everywhere,” and that by accusing conservatives of this thing, we only indicate that it is we who are really racist. Because, see, if you see racism, it’s because you are race-obsessed, and if you are race-obsessed, it’s because you are the racist. But as for them? Nah, they’re just happy-go-lucky, colorblind pixies who throw peanuts at black people while calling them animals.

  120. dianne says

    The HPV vaccine is a good example. The basic research was done at a German university.

    Actually, at a German institute. I’m pretty sure much of the basic research was done at the DKFZ by zur Hausen. I know, fussy correction, but the DKFZ, MPG, etc don’t even have funding from tuition bills: all their funding comes from the government. And grants, which are mostly from various governments. Without it, no HPV vaccine, no possibility of reducing or eliminating half a dozen cancers, etc. Merck didn’t build this. (Not to downplay developing the vaccine, which was important and technically difficult, but they didn’t and never would have done the basic research needed to produce the vaccine.)

  121. Ava, Oporornis maledetta says

    Chas #183: I only watched bits of it, which was all I could stomach, but a few people in the crowd did have “Jeb” pins on their shirts. The banner or sign, I did not see.

  122. says

    Hats off to Setar.

    LG&M has an LTTE from the Walt Wawra of gender:

    The recent Augusta National Golf Club decision to allow membership for women is another misguided capitulation in the relentless war against men, our associations and camaraderie.

    Women harangue, whine and verbally assault us with their demands for more power. They openly set their goal as wanting “everything.” Let’s be honest and clear — women have always been and continue to be the dominant influence and power in interpersonal relations, sexual interactions, in the family, in social and cultural arenas, the schools and in our churches.

    It is estimated that women control three-quarters of the wealth in the nation and they certainly enjoy their seven extra years of life.

    Recent history is awash with the number of organizations that have become feminized following their forced acceptance of females. There are thousands of women’s groups, hundreds in any given region. How many men’s or boy’s organizations can you find in your area? Any?

    Men also have a right to freely associate and develop their own identities, roles and goals, values and purposes. We are different, and it’s not the power but the camaraderie that brings us together. Women do not fit in, and we resent them either overtly or subconsciously for their unwanted intrusion.

    Many people have observed that if it were not for sex, men and women would rarely come together. Let’s recognize those differences and retain a common sense separateness.

    — Don Hilbig, Beloit

  123. Patricia, OM says

    Nerd – Yeah, saving a wall is always a score! It’s astonishing to find out how much CRAP a pair of humans can just allow to pile up in a bathroom during a 35 year marriage.

  124. dianne says

    Re heels: I almost never wear heels and when I do they’re no more than 1 inch. Innate clumsiness makes anything else impractical. The punch line is I’m considered the graceful one in my family: I can actually stand up in heels and wear them for minutes at a time without mutilating myself. Much longer, I wouldn’t want to try.

  125. tim rowledge, Ersatz Haderach says

    Chigau@66 –

    Can’t you tie-haters just wear clip-ons?

    Now that sounds scarily like urging us brave rebels against Da Man to knuckle under, adopt protective plumage and try to pass. Should we white-up, learn to speak with a silver plum in our mouths and which side to pass the port as well ;-) ?

    I haven’t worn a tie since the first co. I worked for in Silly-con valley wanted me to do some corporate teaching stuff. They told me I’d have to wear a suit. I said I had no such thing. Much mumbling later they paid to have a suit made for me. That was… eek, 20 years ago.

    The only practical advantage of a clip-on tie is that it is a quite good disguise for a rapidly accessible throwing blade.

  126. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    It’s astonishing to find out how much CRAP a pair of humans can just allow to pile up in a bathroom during a 35 year marriage.

    *Thinks about closets that make Fibber McGee and Molly’s closet look like the model of organization.*

  127. Patricia, OM says

    So far – a stash of porn magazines, almost too slick to shred (meaning the paper style), full bottles of beer stubbies, double edged metal razor, ceramic hot rollers set… and bottles of meds for three generations of Bulldogs, long dead. I put this down to being raised by depression era parents and grandparents. Then the usual 15 year old meds and creams. Sheesh!

  128. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    What’s this thing about mothers thinking that they still take a more prominent place in such situations than their daughters’ partners?

    The resiude of hundreds of years of tradition that men weren’t allowed to be involved in or present for births at all and of female friends and family assisting prior to the advent of hospital births, presumably.

  129. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Setár

    I FUCKING FLIPPED OFF JOHN THE OTHER TODAY.

    Excellent!

    Audley

    I can’t speak about anyones else’s mom, but my mom is one of those “birth is magical” weirdos and she should know better.

    That’s pretty much my mom as well, though mixed with a lot of “pain is what makes real women.” In her opinion, if it isn’t a horrible nightmare that could double as a Wes Craven film, you had it too easy.

    Xanthë

    Signed.

    Will probably sign the anti-Watson one as well, if I can think up something suitably snarky to say. :)

    Patricia

    Yay for no drywall damage!

    Ms. Daisy Cutter

    “…women have always been and continue to be the dominant influence and power in interpersonal relations, sexual interactions, in the family, in social and cultural arenas, the schools and in our churches.”

    Oh…my. “Women have too much power to tell us to take out the trash and do our homework! We cant let them have access to places where they might gain REAL power!”

    “Women do not fit in, and we resent them either overtly or subconsciously for their unwanted intrusion.”

    “Girls have cooties!”

  130. says

    Lynna,OM – Read the page you linked to on the magic underwear *rolls eyes*, then stumbled on to this comment by none other than Lynn Picknett, damn near fell out of my chair.

    Patricia, as a well-endowed woman you will also appreciate the fact that are several threads where ex-mormon women talk about the difficulty of finding sacred garments that fit. And women with small breasts talk about the garmies bunching up under their bras.

    Garmie fit problems or not, Utah women are supporting a burgeoning industry of breast enhancement.

    Salt Lake City has the highest interest in breast implants in the nation, according to new RealSelf data.

    http://www.realself.com/blog/salt-lake-city-breast-implants

    I think it’s part of the “perfection” neurosis.

    As for Lynn Picknett, mormons would say that her experience was an anomaly and that she shouldn’t let one or two offenses turn her away from the mormon gospel. In truth, sexual dysfunction is almost guaranteed by mormon repressiveness. And failing to report abuse is still a problem in these ultra-conservative and insular communities.

    I was struck by the fact that Picknett was so innocent and sheltered that she didn’t recognize abuse as abuse.

  131. says

    rorschach @181

    What was the deal with the “Jeb Bush 2016″ advertising everywhere at the RNC? Do they not think that Romney can win, or get reelected? I thought that was very revealing.

    Governor Christie was doing the same thing.

    They must all think Romney is going to lose. I’m not so sure. There’s so much money behind the campaign of lies that they may just succeed in buying the Presidency.

  132. says

    The Republican bench is not exactly advertising “So and So in 2016,” not overtly anyway. But they are certainly doing so covertly.

    Rubio, Christie, Bush and other speakers focused more on themselves than on Mitt Romney. I think Christie was 18 minutes into his keynote speech before he ever mentioned Romney.

  133. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    There’s so much money behind the campaign of lies that they may just succeed in buying the Presidency.

    It would be nice if in what is likely his last political campaign Obama would go a little bit negative. I think given his non-negative campaigns in the past, this would cause people to sit up and actually think for a second. And it would likely make the difference. He could do so with dry wit and faux respect, and I suspect it would take very little for Romney’s negatives to rise substantially.

  134. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    It would be nice if in what is likely his last political campaign Obama would go a little bit negative. I think given his non-negative campaigns in the past, this would cause people to sit up and actually think for a second.

    Except that the right wing noise machine has already declared that Obama’s 2008 campaign was the most negative, vicious and divisive campaign in the history of the world. Remember, if Obama says that the sky is blue, the rwnm will declare this a vicious attack seeking to divide out those who live in cloudy areas and how dare he attack those people with such negative viciousness. And the ‘liberal’ media, with their worship of equivalency, has aided and abetted the creation of that myth. After all, if Faux News reports it, the other networks decide it is news and have to cover it. That’s what they mean by, “We report, you decide.”

  135. Patricia, OM says

    Lynna,OM – I was surprised to learn Picknett had been a mormon. As for the child abuse, and overlook it attitude with spanking, perhaps she was raised like I was that that is how a good christian disciplines children and women.

  136. says

    Nerd, Republicans think that Obama is already running a negative campaign. Either that or they think that if they proclaim loudly enough that Obama is running a negative campaign the sheeple will believe them, and the sheeple will ignore the substance of the Obama campaign.

    Paul Ryan and Romney have both accused the President of having nothing to say and of having nothing to brag about in his record, so all he does (they say) is attack Romney personally.

    “With all their attack ads, the president is just throwing away money — and he’s pretty experienced at that. You see, some people can’t be dragged down by the usual cheap tactics because their character, ability and plain decency are so obvious. And ladies and gentlemen, that is Mitt Romney.” — Paul Ryan

    Ann Romney takes this persecution meme to new heights. She claims that the Obama campaign is trying to “kill” and “destroy” her husband.

    … They are gonna do everything they can to destroy Mitt … I feel like all he [Obama] is doing is saying, “Let’s kill this guy.”

    Video of her comments at the link above. I just provided two quotes, but in the interview she uses the word “kill” twice.

  137. robro says

    Washington Post is reporting that the Rev. Sun Myung Moon (92) has died (here). As he’s the Messiah, should we expect him to return in a 2 or 3 days?

  138. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Being “negative” doesn’t necessarily mean trash talk. In Obama’s case, he can point out how Bain needed a government bail-out due to mismanagement (by guess-who). Tsk, not a well managed company. The concept that if Romney lied/downplayed that, what else has he lied/downplayed about will filter to the electorate. Point out where the Rethuglican platform is against the “will of the people” in opinion polls. These are hard to refute, and do make people think.

  139. says

    The good news is that right now, Obama has a mildly comfortable lead where it matters. The bad news is that Obama and the Democrats seem to be convinced that destroying the safety net is the mandate they’ll carry into his second term.

  140. JohnnieCanuck says

    Well some Republicans are optimistic about the election.

    They’ve already started looking for the slave that will stand behind Mitt and whisper in his ear, “Respice te, hominem te memento. You’re not a god yet, you’ll have to wait.”

    So far, no takers.

  141. says

    @ trin

    There is nothing, literally NOTHING we can do that they won’t spin, snipe, and attack.

    Every ounce of progress, every project, every gesture of goodwill will be quote-mined, belittled, misrepresented, and made out to be their farcical idea of bullying or dogma.

    They are creating the drama and then highlighting the drama to cast us in a negative light. Fuck them, and fuck their bullshit.

    You’re doing excellent work, Trin.

  142. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    Justin Vacula posts a nasty video about how A+scribe is bullying people.

    So, for some atheists, social issues are an important part of their atheism. So a few of them come up with the idea of identifying as A+ — atheism plus progressive human rights. And a bunch of people are up in arms that this is bullying? How? Are we forcing others to become plusers? No. Are we confronting misogyny, rape apology, patriarchism, anti-GLBT language and humour, ablism, sexism, genderism, etc.? Some of us are doing that.

    Why? It has nothing to do with atheism, right? I disagree.

    The idea that gods have created a perfect morality to which all humans must at least do lip service is enforced by organized religion and all of the abuses concurrent with churches, temples, mosques, etc. The world is, slowly, far too slowly, moving away from this narrow-minded bigotry, misogyny and violence disguised as gods’ love toward a more inclusive and reality-based view of humanity.

    For me to declare myself an atheist while, at the same time, refusing to work to dismantle the restrictions put in place and continued by the Abrahamic religions (in my culture, that is) would be, to me, dishonest. What would be the point of being an atheist if I am willing to tolerate the continued privilege enjoyed by myself, and other older white men? The same disease with a different cause is still a disease. Patriarchy enforced by atheists would still be patriarchy.

    So I do identify myself as an A+er. I view my progressivism and my atheism as coming from the same source. I do not insist that others view it the same way. And neither has any essay or comment supporting A+ism.

  143. says

    trinioler,

    Your best bet is to just ignore and move past people like Vacula, who is a known piece of shit and who posted Surly Amy’s home address (with photo of the house!) on an MRA website. Like One Thousand Needles points out, these people will intentionally provoke drama in order to inflate that drama out of all proportion to justify their completely irrational hatred of other people.

    They are fucking evil, but convinced that they are some sort of heroes, so they have to lie to themselves and everyone else about how bad we are in order to make their ridiculous behavior seem less extreme. Rational people who aren’t interested in this site would JUST STOP READING THE BLOGS HERE. Vacula and everyone remotely associated with him are deeply, profoundly irrational. They cannot be reasoned with, and shouldn’t be engaged for any reason.

  144. says

    Amen Ogvorbis!

    My view has always been that if you’re going to be an atheist yet otherwise embrace most or all of what the worst of religions engage in, what was the fucking point? If you only think sexism and racism and classism are wrong because they stem from theism, and you’re willing to accept those things without question when divorced from religion, then you’re no different from any sexist, racist, classist, fundamentalist asshole.

  145. llewelly says

    robro
    2 September 2012 at 2:44 pm:

    Washington Post is reporting that the Rev. Sun Myung Moon (92) has died (here). As he’s the Messiah, should we expect him to return in a 2 or 3 days?

    At the very least we should expect 3 completely incompatible versions of the story to be included in the New New Testament.

  146. says

    trinioler
    Couldn’t make it past the 4:00 mark. Guess the part of the discussion where people then got back together and discussed it again after things had cooled down doesn’t get mentioned.
    If you want hugs, I’m just leaving a big bunch of them lying here, feel free to serve yourself.

    +++
    Hey, today I went for my great-aunts 90th birthday. She initially mistook me for my cousin (which can actually happen, genetics are weird. You can see I’m related to my paternal 1st grade cousin, but when my second grand maternal cousin’s stepson saw me for the first time he went looking back and forth between the two of us several times). After we cleared that up lots of stuff she said made sense.

    And I hope my neighbour gets a place in the nursing home, soon. She keeps talking to her reflection in the mirror of the elevator and gets angry when she (her sister, she says) doesn’t follow her out. It must be hell for her daughter, whose living in the house and who spends most of her free time searching for her mother.

  147. katansi says

    Just a random addition to feelings about A+… I have otherwise extremely enlightened and progressive friends that are social justice aware but still defend faith. Today, one of the smartest people I know, (feminist, intelligent, well-educated, an explorer of ideas and a true thinker) post that garbage Guardian article I stuck in above and it just blows my mind. In all other things she believes in justice and expects reasoned support, say in like economic policy or something, and here she just tosses it out the window. Picking one aspect of her political stance, she’s one of the most ardent feminists I know but she’ll still bring up something where there’s a “defense” of faith which is the root for so many crimes against women.

    So here’s a question, how do you deal with how utterly heartbreaking that is? Because at least to me it is so I’d wager there is someone else out there dealing with that emotional response to this. And I can’t just shut it down.

  148. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    I am asking because a biology teacher has been trying to tell me that Bonobos are genetically closer to humans than common Chimps are, whereas my reading of the literature is that they are equally closely related.

    I am not a geneticist:

    Chimps and bonobos had a common ancestor AFTER the split from our ancestry, so they are equally closely related. That’s sort of like saying they are both Great-Uncle Ronny’s kids.

    Chimps underwent more mutation/variance after they split from bonobos, so they are genetically more different. That’s sort of like saying that one of Great-Uncle Ronny’s kids looks like our side of the family, while the other is a soulless epithet.

  149. Patricia, OM says

    The depth of swearing from the Pink has gone beyond attempts to humiliate the washer over the length of it’s hoses frozen to their connectors. Well passed threats of making it perform unnatural none washing functions if it doesn’t move…now it’s entered into the shock and awe stage.

    Under the pink plastic tiles behind the washer is linoleum stuck to the walls!

  150. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Gee, just gave Ogvorbis’ tab a months’s free supply of grog, swill, popcornz, and bacon sammiches for #221. While I haven’t officially chimed in one way or the other on A+ yet, I do like the concept. While my situation makes it hard to do anything other than to cheer others who can act for a while, I can support those who act with grog, swill popcornz, and bacon sammiches.

  151. says

    If Sun Myung Moon follows the Babblical story, he should be up in less than 40 hours, right?

    If he follows the Walking Dead story, it could be anywhere from three minutes to eight hours. For T.S. 19 it was two hours, one minute and seven seconds.
    I hope someone there knows how to put him down.

  152. Patricia, OM says

    katansi – You say your friend is well-educated, and willing to explore ideas. Would challenging her reasons for skipping it all when it comes to faith be possible? Is she a christian?

    Her attitude worries me.

  153. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Addendum to my previous comment:
    Not only is the SpokesGay adorable, he’s also a totally awesome cook.

    *sated sigh*

  154. says

    birgerjohansson, Troll Hunter is simply a great movie, however you want to categorize it. I watched it for the first time dead sober one morning about 6 months ago. I’d categorize it as a modern fantasy/fable rather than either horror or parody. It is aware of modern horror tropes, but it isn’t mocking them at all IMO.

  155. Patricia, OM says

    Esteleth – Have you heard if anyone is still working on the Ravelry project? I have all but one item done, and I’m starting to get nervous about shipping.

  156. says

    Is anyone here living in/near Florida? I’m asking because my organization is putting on a conference at the end of this month and I was wondering if any of the Horde was attending. PZ, Greta, and Rebecca Watson (and a lot of other cool people) will be speaking (and I’ll be on a panel). More info about it here.

  157. says

    Never mind, I found it. I suddenly remembered that I could google. (Hey, I haven’t finished my coffee yet.) Here’s a couple of highlights:

    * Watson is dogmatically dedicated to unproven ideas like “rape is bad” and “blacks should be allowed to vote”. That’s not what skepticism is about! Skepticism is about making me feel super smrt for not believing in Bigfoot! How can I feel smrt around a girl?!?! Her withering glare makes my penis feel even smaller than its two inches.

    * We must stop these authoritarians. We must force them out of their free podcasts. Everytime we voluntarily listen to one of their podcasts they force their evil philosophies on us. The only way to deal with these authoritarians is to pressure them of their free podcasts because we disagree with them.

    And of course, by Rebecca Watson:
    I must be stopped! Down with authorarians!

  158. says

    Alethea,

    Could you please for the love of Satan stop being so rationally sarcastic? I could and probably might spit beer into the last working keyboard I have!

  159. says

    BTW, for the love of fuck I’m sick to puking over this “dogmatic” nonsense directed our way. In every case where it has been spelled out, it has been some idiot saying “Well, I agree with you but I don’t care for being told what to do”… well, fuck off then, you immature assclown! Look, if you’d prefer people be treated well, but would prefer that they be treated poorly rather than be told to treat them well, then you’re a fucking asocial moron. }

    There’s this constant thread of evil idiocy through all of these conversations that basically says “I would rather be free from rules than other people be free from harassment”… and it IS evil and wrong and cruel, and I have zero respect for those people.

  160. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Just passing through, night before a race is always an uneasy one for me.

    First, Improbable Joe, you still in need of a little extra? I still can’t believe those douchemonkeys played your wife like that.
    ——————————————-

    What is UP with Vacula? Does he literally live on drama, the way vampires live on blood?
    ——————————————-

    My class on Sustainability is proving to be interesting, and definitely a bit challenging. Right now I’m subscribed to two threads in the forums, one of which is about a business perspective to the course that, to my surprise, I find very engrossing. The other one is about water sustainability and various related topics – no participation from me in that one, I’m mostly watching it.

    I’m nervous, though. I haven’t come up with an idea for my final project yet. Most of the other students have already brought up their ideas in the forum, but I’m at a loss.

    My poetry class starts tomorrow. I hope I haven’t bitten off more than I can chew, since I’ve got another course starting in two weeks. Bleh, good thing they’re all on topics I want to learn about.

  161. portia says

    Giliell and broboxley

    I didn’t mean to impugn the use of epidurals or pain relief during childbirth more broadly. Not by any means. Every person should have their birth the way they want it, and I thoroughly reject the SuperMom™ trope. I apologize if my comment came off like I was saying they Did It Right by not having epidurals. I only mentioned their lack of epidurals because I was somewhat in awe of what they did. My sister did have a different form of pain relief via IV towards the end. I was only sorry for that happening because it reduced her ability to push, which made them tell her she needed pitocin, which increased her pain again, canceling out the initial injection. Sort of a nasty cycle.

    Pain relief has upsides and downsides. To each their own. Nobody should have birth without pain relief if they want it for any reason. I do second Socio-gen’s analysis of episiotomies, though. My friend’s doctor lied to me to obtain her consent to an episiotomy. I’m not one of those anti-medical-establishment people, but I think the current culture of L&D doesn’t treat women as well as it could, to say the least.

  162. hotshoe says

    Color Affection shawl complete. It came out very pretty, but the stripes are not as distinct as I pictured, If I did another one, I would make the stripes 4 rows tall, not just 2. Used all of the main color except a few inches, ditto the second contrast (outer stripe) color which I ran out of while binding off. So I had to unknit the binding plus the previous row then redo binding … ah well. I’ll give it to my mom when she comes up next month.
    I haven’t done anything – not anything except eat and sleep – yesterday and today besides knitting. Thanks gourd I’m done. Now I can think of something else for a change.

    So, what should I think of?

  163. says

    One of my friends just got a tattoo and it didn’t turn out like she wanted. I think she didn’t realize that she should have felt entitled to as much discussion and drawing with the tattoo artist as she needed to make her feel comfortable and completely confident. I feel so bad for her, because it’s not a disaster of a tattoo and it can be fixed, but now she’s going to have to save up for someone else to fix it and she should be happy and excited about it now, not disappointed.

    BE PICKY ABOUT YOUR TATTOO ARTIST. GET ONE WHO SEES IT AS A SERVICE CAREER. DO NOT BE RAILROADED OR RUSHED EVER.

    This concludes the psa.

  164. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    portia, I did a comment on this blog once about how childbirth is not a “natural and beautiful” process for humans. We haven’t really adapted to large-brained babies, yet. Giving birth is THE defining evolutionary characteristic in whether women live or die (like running from cheetahs is for gazelles, say). Ways of helping the mother is much of what defines the rest of society—right now, we are pretty good at it.

    But the poor woman is still attempting the sometimes-impossible. I’d not try it without pain relief.

    By the dog, the doctors need to be doing their very best for the woman. And they need to keep in mind that it may be their two-thousandth observation of a birth, but it is her giving birth, and it certainly isn’t a routine for her.

  165. Nutmeg says

    robro: No, sorry, I don’t have the original link. I found the picture on a tumblr I follow.

  166. says

    Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan,

    Wow, that’s a busy ‘nym!!!

    And yeah, we’re still struggling even though I’ve sold off half my pedalboard in the last two weeks. Because my wife entered a voluntary alcohol treatment program 12 years ago, Nevada refuses to give her a nursing licence today, even though she has a valid licence in multiple other states. They want her to appear in person and give 5 non-anonymous references from Alcoholics Anonymous before she can accept a job in Nevada… in other words, they don’t want to give her a licence, ever, period.

    It would have been nice if they had said so before she spent $200 to request a Nevada licence, or $200 more on malpractice insurance to be a nurse in Nevada, or $300 to clear up her Florida driver’s licence so she could rent a car in Nevada, or $250 worth of records requests to prove that she’s been a nurse in four other states since Nevada, out of money we haven’t had because she quit her last job because she was assaulted and can’t risk pressing a complaint against in case she needs to take a different job from the same multi-state conglomerate.

  167. says

    thunk, the Horde has been FUCKING AWESOME to us, so we know that the whole world isn’t against us. The house seems to be cursed though, since I’ve not only thrown my back out pretty severely but also re-injured the ankle with all the appliances in it. That’s recently, the first week we were here I slipped down the back porch steps, hit the top step hard and slid all the way to the bottom while turning a complete 180. I lost some skin on the back of one arm and hit so hard that my whole right ass-cheek was bruised for over a month, and I had a sharp divot in the meat over my right hip for two months.

    And the cats and dog seem out to get me, since they won’t let me sleep most days. The one male kitty-boy Randall cries for attention all day and half the night, and Ellie the sleepy-time snuggle buddy harasses me from the moment the sun comes up to make a spot on the bed for her to sleep in right next to me. Add that to my depression insomnia, and I’m having an AWESOME September so far.

  168. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    StarStuff:

    Is anyone here living in/near Florida? I’m asking because my organization is putting on a conference at the end of this month and I was wondering if any of the Horde was attending. PZ, Greta, and Rebecca Watson (and a lot of other cool people) will be speaking (and I’ll be on a panel). More info about it here.

    I live in Pensacola, Florida.
    Speaking of, well, speakers, I just learned that James Croft will be speaking Thursday 9/6 at the University of South Alabama (http://www.meetup.com/Gulf-Coast-Freethinkers/events/79107502/). Mobile is only an hour from me, so I’ve been thinking about going to see him. Just have to get over this huge aversion to doing things and going places alone, especially in new places.

  169. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Joe; ouch.

    I have been harassed in my calculus class by an attack table. It goes for the knees.

  170. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Tony:

    I live in Pensacola, Florida.

    So can I take a computer flight to Pepsi-Cola?

    *sorry, couldn’t resist*

  171. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    People like Moon and other weasels should be flash-frozen after death so we have enough lab “material”.

    Why wait?

  172. trinioler says

    Hey all. A+scribe is working on transcribing the three Pharyngula podcasts.

    Everyone who was in them, could we please have permission to transcribe them? I’m not exactly sure who was in each podcast, so if you know one of them doesn’t read the Lounge, can you contact them please?

  173. Rey Fox says

    A bit late to the dressing-up discussion, but oh well. I used to be pretty dead-set against it, but when I finally got an office job, one that I actually wanted, I decided I could stand to look a little nicer than I had to date. So I started buying shirts that actually fit me. And since I’m still in a pretty casual field, I started taking a bit of pleasure from actually dressing nicer than the others.*

    * The men, at least.

    I bought my first necktie for a Halloween costume. But since then, I wore it for a presentation in class, again just out of a weird desire to show the other students up. So I guess I too hate the tie expectation, and I hate the constrictiveness of them*, but I’m willing to wear them when I don’t think others will.

    * Craig Ferguson used to wear them with the top shirt button undone, and I think it’s a great rakish look.

    I also don’t care for tucking my shirts in.

    The World is Dying
    broken
    a soulless cunt
    the joke killer
    *King of Hellmouth*

    I think Ogvorbis is right. It’s like a Radiohead album liner in here.

    Look, if you’d prefer people be treated well, but would prefer that they be treated poorly rather than be told to treat them well, then you’re a fucking asocial moron.

    Sally had a great Twitter exchange with one of these petulant cases in which she characterized his behavior as “reactance”. I’ve always been an anti-joiner and even I think these guys are just assholes. They should be thanking us for giving them something to pointlessly rebel against.

  174. says

    Good afternoon Hordelings,

    thanks to all of you who’ve signed the pro-Rebecca petition. I know this is exactly the sort of thing PZ normally treats as a ‘pointless poll’, because it was always unlikely that the Novellas would listen to the negative opinions raised by the anti-Rebecca petition and remove her from the SGU podcast.

    The anti- petition is just more Internet bullying of Rebecca, plain and simple. And using a reputable petition site to enable that.

    Well, fuck that noise.

    Today’s datum:

    Pro-Rebecca petition: 251
    Anti-Rebecca petition: 62

    The latest signatory to the anti-RW petition is an old familiar we all know and loathe: one ‘f. grogan’ of Sydney, Australia. Keep on hogglin’…

    (When I signed the pro–RW petition before getting PZ to retweet it, the pro–RW was at 9 signatures and the anti–RW at 24, so the Pharyngulation has been running at well over 80% pro since then.)

  175. says

    I confess, I signed both! I think quite a few people did – lots of snark in the anti. Possibly the first 24 were all serious.

    Now who said this? Own up, now! Louis, is this you?

    Without Rebecca Watson, I might have stayed a feminist who thinks women are people too. Because of her divisive and polarizing ways, I know better now! It’s my job to let men I don’t know proposition me or touch me without asking. All those fighting Rebecca Watson made me realize that only MAN FEE-FEES (IMPORTANT!) matter, not my opinions, experiences, or feelings.

    I’d say more, but I have to get back to making the sammiches!

  176. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    I think quite a few people did – lots of snark in the anti. Possibly the first 24 were all serious.

    But you’re driving away potential allies!

  177. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Everyone:

    I propose we should remove names starting with “I” from hurricane naming lists.

    Too many powerful storms starting with that letter have caused large damage to land areas.

    Just in the last ten years, these storms have included Isabel 2003 (Cat 5 and quite damaging), Ivan 2004 (a Cat 5 raging monster- and zombie-cane), Ike 2008 (very large and damaging in Texas), Igor 2010 (very very large and powerful), Irene 2011 (very large and knocked down the entire east coast), and now Isaac 2012 (rather large- you all know that one)

    In fact, the letter “I” has been retired 8 times, which ties for the most retirements of any letter.

    Only you can prevent this.

  178. Richard Austin says

    thunk,

    Pragmatist talking, but probably because the 9th is about the time the season really gets into swing. Removing it would just cause Josephine and Jose and Janine to be the problem children.

  179. markr1957 Inc. says

    Improbable Joe – you have my sympathy as a fellow sufferer of depression insomnia; except that in my case I feel like I deserve it. My past is so full of blind misogyny and I know I can’t undo the shit I’ve done.

    Thunk – if you ever need help with calculus, just ask. If you need help with knees, forget about it – mine are totally fucked already!

    Mutmeg – loved the snark link, thank you :) I signed the pro-Rebecca petition.

    To the Horde in general – for exposing me to the reality of privilege I thank you, one and all. Since I previously lived in a color-free world I never saw the racism because there was rarely anybody to be racist to, and because I am a penis-haver I was blind to the sexist privilege that gave me. Trying to learn, but I still have a long way to go.

    Maybe one more single malt and I’ll be able to sleep for a while….. It used to be a 12 year old but I think it’s a teenager now. Why can’t doctors prescribe drugs I can wash down with alcohol?

  180. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Also, half of the retired hurricane names in the Eastern Pacific have started with I: Iwa 1982, Iniki 1992, Ismael 1995, and Ioke 2006.

  181. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Richard Austin;

    The 9th TS is usually near the end of the season, if you go by climatology. Perhaps that’s why C is tied for first too.

    However, in the current AMO positive phase, the 9th storm is in the middle of a yearly total of 15-19 that have occurred in each of the I years*

    Also, that was intended to be snark.

    *Currently, the 2012 season only has 12 named storms, but we’re not even halfway through.

  182. Richard Austin says

    thunk:

    Well, we could switch to the greek alphabet, but there wouldn’t be an iota of difference.

    *runs and hides*

    I’m more worried about having major storms in 2003, 4, 8, 10, 11, and 12. That’s bad trend.

  183. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    RAustin:

    Don’t forget 2005. 4 Cat5s in one year, including the strongest storm in the basin ever.

    Also 2001 and 2 had retired I storms.

  184. markr1957 Inc. says

    Thunk, you should chat with my wife – she’s an avid (amateur) online storm-chaser too.

    Compared to Gustav, Isaac was a pussy cat – only 4 days without power this time around as compared to 10 days after Gustav (and just 12 hours after Katrina here). Only one tree down on the street compared to 8 with Gustav. Yet to figure out how much food we lost to spoilage but everything in the freezer is gone, and now waiting for trash collection on Wednesday before we have room to replace it all.

  185. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ Lynna, OM #176

    [creepy shit from the mormons]

    One mustn’t forget Joseph Smith was just another huckster from the Burnt Over Districts of New York (state). There was a regression of religion in those days into a more ignorant and superstitious form. While people could get away with the most ridiculous hockus-pockus, there was also an element of brinkmanship in the nuttiness. New converts could only be acquired from those already “burnt” (ie: converted to woo/spirituality/god-ism).

    Charlatans like Joseph Smith (he started his career using magic “seer stones” to find “buried treasure”) could have a field day if they could concoct even more incredible claims than their rivals. Why just live forever if you can live forever as a god?

    Nowadays religion in the US has died down in its virulence (this is hard to believe, but yes, they were REALLY out-there back then) and so the previous extreme lies, which so enamored the people of the time now glare back at them out of their shadows. A lot of what made sense in the original context, from a marketing point of view, has now become an embarrassment.

  186. ibyea says

    Oh, and I loved your description of Ivan as a monster “zombie-cane”. Not only did it have the second highest ACE of any recorded hurricane in the Atlantic (at around seventy something), it went through land, died out into a low pressure area, looped around, and reformed again!

  187. says

    Good morning
    I still feel like I worked night shift instead of sleeping :(

    Joe

    There’s this constant thread of evil idiocy through all of these conversations that basically says “I would rather be free from rules than other people be free from harassment”… and it IS evil and wrong and cruel, and I have zero respect for those people.

    If you ask me, those people grew a lot but never up. You can’t make me eat my brocoli and if I don’t kick your shin you should say “thank you”!!!

    portia

    I didn’t mean to impugn the use of epidurals or pain relief during childbirth more broadly. Not by any means. Every person should have their birth the way they want it, and I thoroughly reject the SuperMom™ trope. I apologize if my comment came off like I was saying they Did It Right by not having epidurals.

    Oh, I didn’t think you did.
    But I’m critical about the awe. I went through both births without an epidural because my kids didn’t give me any time for one. I spent more time in the delivery ward after birth (dunno about the States, here they keep you for about an hour to have you still close under watch and next to frightening machinery and serious drugs just in case) than during, but I really don’t put any value to that. If that’s the way a woman wants to go, that’s fine by me, but there’s just no value to it.
    Couldn’t say that Pitocin increased the pain. The little one went much smoother than #1 with only minimal tearing.

    I do second Socio-gen’s analysis of episiotomies, though. My friend’s doctor lied to me to obtain her consent to an episiotomy. I’m not one of those anti-medical-establishment people, but I think the current culture of L&D doesn’t treat women as well as it could, to say the least.

    Oh, no argument on that. Although the idea of giving all women one does stem from the hypothesis that it would do women good by preventing incontinence. And I very well believe that doctors are very reluctant to believe the new evidence when that means that
    A) they did a totally unnecessary intervention to countless women
    B) if presumably made their lives easier before
    Of course I don’t know your friend’s case, but I’m not sure I would qualify “not accepting the new evidence” as lying.

    hotshoe

    So, what should I think of?

    Posting pictures :)

    Menyambal

    By the dog, the doctors need to be doing their very best for the woman. And they need to keep in mind that it may be their two-thousandth observation of a birth, but it is her giving birth, and it certainly isn’t a routine for her.

    I think that’s true for ALL medical professionals

    +++++

    Ivan 2004 (a Cat 5 raging monster- and zombie-cane)

    I remember Ivan. Better said, I remember preparing for Ivan, because I was in the most likely path to take. Thankfully, it chose the least likely path to take. God must love socialist commie Cuba.

  188. ibyea says

    @Gilliel
    At that time, I was living in Caracas, Venezuela. I remember it caused rainy weather. I was surprised a hurricane could go that far South.

  189. vaiyt says

    Just yesterday I have managed to explain him about the logic of privilege and the reasoning behind affirmative action… he agreed with me and abandoned the reverse racism meme. That was surprisingly easy. :3

  190. blf says

    I just had a Pepsi with lunch, first time in, oh, maybe a year. Wish I knew someone nearby to whom I could donate the rest of the sixpack.

    You must Really Hate your co-workers…

    Even peas can’t stand the stuff, albeit don’t try using it as a defensive weapon — the gunk just infuriates them even more.

  191. hotshoe says

    At that time, I was living in Caracas, Venezuela. I remember it caused rainy weather. I was surprised a hurricane could go that far South

    So was everyone else. According to wikipedia, Ivan set records for maximum southern location for Atlantic hurricanes. It was Cat3 at 10.2deg N (Caracas’ latitude), Cat4 at 10.6deg N six hours later.
    But fortunately for Venezuela, Ivan only gave it a glancing blow. A few deaths were reported and hundreds of persons had homes damaged.

    I’m glad I wasn’t anywhere near it. Especially not near the 10-story-tall waves Ivan kicked up in the Gulf of Mexico.

  192. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    StarStuff:

    @ Tony

    Are you interested in attending the conference?

    Yes, but…I can’t commit to anything at present. I’m still without a job (3 weeks as of Wednesday; I’m so tired of staying at home), and I want to leave my availability open to any prospective employer. I’d dearly love to go though, and it’s certainly on my calendar.

  193. blf says

    [Ivan the monster “zombie-cane” had] the second highest ACE of any recorded hurricane in the Atlantic (at around seventy something), it went through land, died out into a low pressure area, looped around, and reformed again!

    That was just Obama practicing his hurricane steering.

  194. katansi says

    @Patricia, OM Yes she is a Christian… sort of. She’s actually pretty deist in her thinking which makes it even weirder for me. She’s not defensive about anything, and I don’t attack her for it but I do question it. I just don’t get it. She’s doesn’t even like not believe in the value of scientific evidence except in this one area. I don’t understand the hold out and I don’t think she understands atheism. Maybe it’s really down to she can’t not believe like I probably can’t believe.

  195. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Ivan was the first hurricane I had to deal with as an adult. It hit Pensacola around September 15 (16?) 2004. We had been here less than a year. I had been hired at a local restaurant only 2 months prior, and was *just* beginning to get accustomed to it, when BAM! That hurricane devastated the city. We were out of power for 11 days. September in Pensacola is almost the same as July. The heat was almost overwhelming. Thankfully, we still had water (it was cold, but believe me, it was welcome) and we only lost one tile from the side of the house. I remember trying to escape the city a day or two after it hit-to no avail. One of the main bridges out of town was demolished, and there was destruction everywhere. There were blue tarps over homes for another 4 years after. Many of the marinas never recovered. The aftereffects of Ivan were felt for years, as tourism in Pensacola dropped dramatically. Memorial Day weekend, which normally sees 100K+ queers show up saw a significant drop in attendance in ’05 and ’06. The beaches took a few years to get the debris cleared away (and then the oil spill hit and screwed the beaches up again).
    I really do not want to deal with another hurricane of that caliber (or even one coming close) ever again.

  196. hotshoe says

    I just had a Pepsi with lunch, first time in, oh, maybe a year. Wish I knew someone nearby to whom I could donate the rest of the sixpack.

    You must Really Hate your co-workers…

    Heh. Maybe I do. Really, I just figure there are lots of folks who love sodas and don’t much care which ones (if they’re free). I don’t drink a sixpack a year myself. It was so hot and dry lately that I just craved something – and this Pepsi is made with real sugar, not corn syrup, which makes it seem like a good choice to me.

    A couple years ago we had a taste test with CocaCola hecho en Mexico. Mexican is made with real sugar and it does taste different from American. Five times as expensive, though, at the regular grocery store, so hardly worth it.

  197. StevoR says

    @ Previous lounge thread’s #170 hotshoe – 30th August 2012 at 11:02 pm

    I just got an email link to a Planned-Parenthood quiz about Thug attacks on women’s health. Supposedly each correct answer results in a $0.10 donation (from an anonymous supporter) to Planned Parenthood to defeat Thug candidates in Nov. I gave my name and email address and got all 5 questions right; a few seconds later I got another email saying $0.50 had been donated in my name – and to please share the quiz with my social network.
    So, here you go, folks: quiz page
    Hope that link works. If not, you can get there from first page of Women Are Watching/i>

    (Sorry not sure how to get links to work when text carried over via cut’n’paste.)

    Cheers for that. Quiz done &, I gather, money donated via there.

    The things people really say and laws they really pass over there in the States .. YIKES!

    A little bit only but hope it helps.

  198. StevoR says

    @ ^ No worries hotshoe – cheers was just about to post same links or at least one of them!

    This one :

    https://secure.ppaction.org/site/SPageNavigator/pp_ppaf_WaWQuiz0712_c4_w.html?s_src=WaWQuiz0712_c4_w_fb

    to be precise.

    BTW. Am now using new internet server-y thingummywhatist after major computer troubles over the weekend involving Internet Explorer. Used superantispyware site to remove a nasty (“Critical issue remove at immediately!”) trojan (malware-y?) thing that it found plus not-so bad but unwelcome tracking cookies.

    Don’t think they would’ve spread from my comments here – pretty sure not – but thought I’d let y’all know just in case.

    Also still finding my way with new net server-y thingummywhatsit so, yeah, may take me a while to get everything familiar and easy woking as before.

  199. John Morales says

    StevoR,

    (Sorry not sure how to get links to work when text carried over via cut’n’paste.)

    hotshoe,

    I don’t know how to carry over links, either, so I found my bookmark and re-copied ‘em.

    A simple method: Go to the page source (FireFox allows you to highlight and thus select only that portion, but all browsers can view the source) and cut and paste from the HTML source rather than the rendered text.

  200. says

    Oh dear, I think I accidentially castrated a boy by suggesting that his eye-patches (nowadays they come with different motives and stuff) were kind of like fashion accessory.

    In other news, #1 and I are currently engaging in the “nature’s a shitty place and yes, lions do kill zebras” talks.
    Funny enough, she’s totally OK with “fish are animals you can eat” and I always made sure to tell her that this is true with other animals. I think part of the problem is the damn anthromophisation of animals. Because no, honey, lions can’t just ask zebras for meat and zebras can’t just nod friendlily and hand it to the lions…

    And I’m tired and look like somebody punched me in the eyes.

  201. Louis says

    TOO MUCH COFFEE!!!! WEEKEND OF NOTHING BUT PAPERWORK AND RUGBY!!!! BRAIN IN OVERDRIVE!!!!! HELLO EVERYONE!!!!! GOING INTO THE LAB NOW TO MAKE ALL THE CHEMICALS!!!!!!

    ZOMG IT’S ALL FULL OF MOLECULES!!!!!

    LOUIS!!!!!!!

  202. StevoR says

    @166.Xanthë :

    Signed [Pro-Rebecca Watson petition]
    with 282 supporters
    218 NEEDED

    Latest figures as of not long ago.

    @308. John Morales : Cheers. I’m not very computer literate I’m afraid.

    Question if I may please – can trojan malware thingummies be spread by posting blog comments or not? Not sure, hope this hasn’t happened when it was on my system.

  203. John Morales says

    StevoR,

    Question if I may please – can trojan malware thingummies be spread by posting blog comments or not?

    No; but links in the comments can point to malware sites.

  204. blf says

    TOO MUCH COFFEE!!!! [Nah, not enough. Only four exclams!] WEEKEND OF NOTHING BUT PAPERWORK [Bad…] AND RUGBY [GOOD!]!!!! BRAIN IN OVERDRIVE!!!!! [Nah, after some good rugby, brain in intensive care — or is that due to the beer?] HELLO EVERYONE!!!!! [Good morning, Sir, Ms, It, or Them.] GOING INTO THE LAB NOW TO MAKE ALL THE CHEMICALS!!!!!! [I think you need to start with some more coffee.]

    ZOMG IT’S ALL FULL OF MOLECULES!!!!! [No, those are peas! Run…]

    LOUIS!!!!!!! [—Mildly deranged penguin wrangler.]

  205. StevoR says

    @185.thunk, circumzenithal arc

    well g’morn everyone. Hooray, Setar! Also, I don’t sign change.org petitions as a matter of course.

    Hooray Setar seconded. (Nine-hundred-&-ninety ninethed by now?)

    Thinking unfortunate trolls, saw Mabus spewing his spam and breaking his parole on Great Christina’s blog as well t’other night too.)

    Um, why not sign Change dot org petitions? Okay, internet slacktivism and not hugely significant action to take but still.

    BTW. Love the ‘circumzenithal arc’ ref in your nym too. Them and parhelia (“sundogs” / “mock suns”) and the natural spectroscopes commonly known as rainbows are awesome!

    @179. andrewmiles :

    Wondering if someone can help me – trying to find out if there is any difference in the genetic closeness of Pan Paniscus and humans and Pan Trog and humans? Is on species of Pan closer genetically than the other or are they the same? I have my own opinion, but would love to find out for sure and see some decent article or paper as validation!

    How about a book? I think I remember Stephen Jay Gould or somebody writing one arguing we humans are the third chimp species once ages ago.

    ..[wiki checks] ..

    Aha. See :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Chimpanzee

    Nope, not Stephen jay Gould (although think he’s written ‘bott chimps and humans too somewhere) but rather Jared Diamond.

    Not sure if that’s exactly what you’re after or helpful here but hope ’tis.

  206. StevoR says

    @312. John Morales :

    No; but links in the comments can point to malware sites.

    Cheers for that, much appreciated – and phew. That means just posting comments (and links to non-malware sites eg. to wikipedia, youtube, other FTB and science blogs) can’t / won’t have accidentally have spread anything right?

    My anti-virus software has blocked threats by blocking links before, its how that works too, correct?

  207. John Morales says

    StevoR,

    My anti-virus software has blocked threats by blocking links before, its how that works too, correct?

    Mostly. The company marketing the AV either keeps or has access to a continuously-updated list of “bad” sites, and checks against that list when you seek access to any site (it slows your browsing down); and sometimes the software will even check links within the link itself.

    (But it’s more complicated than that, and also, new sites not yet listed can still be a problem)

  208. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    Yes. Ivan was Bad. Very Bad indeed.

    It also tiptoed right around Jamaica.

    But then again, Ike carved up Cuba along its path, and so did Gustav.

  209. says

    And from PZ’s tweets I note that he’s stuck on a plane with occasional crotches in his face…So it may stay quiet for a while longer.

  210. says

    In other news, #1 and I are currently engaging in the “nature’s a shitty place and yes, lions do kill zebras” talks.

    Been watching Madagascar? I still remember vividly #1′s wide eyes when I first read Chicken Little to him and got to the part where Foxy Loxy ate the first of the fowl.

  211. blf says

    PZ’s tweets I note that he’s stuck on a plane with occasional crotches in his face

    I read that first as cockroaches — are flying tin buckets that awful now (I haven’t flown in several years)? — and then as just “roaches” — I can sympathize, I don’t particularly like the smell of burning marijuana either (and what airline allows joints anyways?) — and only then as what was actually written. Which still brings up rather vivid images, albeit of the orgy, slave gallery, and such variants.

    Of course, what poopyhead probably means is the squid fell out of his luggage…

  212. says

    SQB

    Been watching Madagascar?

    No, and I wouldn’t at this stage. They got a book about dinosaurs with the inevitable picture where T-Rex tries to kill another dino. The little one beat the book up, but it set #1 thinking.
    And I’m trying to avoid moral judgements on predatory animals. Lions aren’t evil for eating zebras, but she still has to get this anthropomorphized bullshit out of her head.
    I remember that when we visited David’s museum, there was a movie on elephants and she asked why they drink out of the muddy river and not out of a clean dish.

  213. blf says

    Lions aren’t evil for eating zebras

    Perhaps malnourished? Lions due very well on a diet of Great Sky Faerie believers. Who are less dangerous to catch (less likely to break the lionesses’ jaw with a well-aimed kick). And, except for any clothing, quite easy to bite, chew, and gulp down. Not too much hair / fur as well. Overall, almost the perfect lion-food.

  214. blf says

    Oh for feck’s sake: Lions due… → Lions do…

    Waht;s the potin of Preview if you dont see the errors?

  215. says

    @ Tony

    Good luck in your job search.

    If you can’t make that conference, there’s another pretty cool event happening in Florida this fall, if you’re interested. The Florida Secular Rally is taking place on November 3rd in Tallahassee. It’s free and only a day long. Some pretty cool speakers at that one too (including me, again :P ).

    Anyway, if you’re ever interested or curious about the the Florida atheist/freethought community and events, feel free to ask me (I may or not see it here, but I’m also on PET). I’m usually pretty “in the know” about the cool state-wide events. Mostly because I seem to help plan them a lot :P

  216. says

    As for the child abuse, and overlook it attitude with spanking, perhaps she was raised like I was that that is how a good christian disciplines children and women.

    Patricia, I’ve seen such nonsense before, including online and print manuals for just how the man of the family is supposed to spank his wife. Most of the instructions seem to harp on the fact that the spanking has to really hurt.

    Fuckin’ idiots.

  217. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Who let the threadrupt teal deer out, who, who?

    Why me of course:

    “So you think you’re Punk? I was Punk before any of you!” He was right in my face, the stench of his body trying to cope with too much beer briefly overcame the cigarette smoke that was billowing out the club’s open door. It was hot, humid, and overhead the small awnings shading the painted out windows read: “Dancing” “Nightclub” “Dancing” “Nightclub” “Dancing” “Nightclub” “Dancing”. Though the notion that the sun could shine here was unthinkable to me.

    I’d felt safe here, a part of something that was bigger than me but encompassed the things that I thought defined me. But that one instant, that threat, knocked something loose in me and I was outside once again.

    “Right, fuck it.” I thought. “I’m growing my hair.”

    I’d had enough. To me the Punk movement was about individuality, about not conforming to the social norms and paying the price of that noncompliance because we chose to do so. The truth was that in that time and place , Vancouver in the summer of 1985, Punk had become just another set of rules. If it had ever been about individuality that point was long past, and I hadn’t the insight to see it.

    I didn’t stop going to the gigs, I didn’t stop listening to the music and I didn’t change my friends. But I did let my hair grow, and I discovered something important: no one who mattered to me cared.

    “And your foot should never be on her neck.” What. The. FUCK!? My emotions had been pinballing around for the whole afternoon. I’d never seen my brother happier, not even at his first wedding. But I was seriously creeped out by all the well scrubbed, oh so friendly, oh so religious folks who were sharing the pews with me. When Pastor Dave said that to my brother, after going on at length about how the husband is the head of the household, and how the wife had to submit unto him, well, I hit a wall. Hard. I clenched my fists against the wooden seat and fought every impulse to jump up and scream “What the fuck year is this anyway!” or “You’ve gotta be kidding! You all know, KNOW, that he was a fucking mess until she came along!” It was a near thing.

    I don’t hate my brother, not really. We both dealt with the same crap growing up and we both came out scarred by it. We were never close, a couple of times we gave a good go at killing each other, but that’s in the past and I wish him well. But I choose not to be around him, I choose to keep my child as far from him as I can. Mind you, that’s pretty easy, having moved to Australia and all. I choose this because I think that his beliefs are abhorrent and the labels of “Family” and “Brother” are not enough to change that.

    I no longer routinely think of myself as a Punk, though if pushed I’d say that that label still applies to some degree. I have a certain nihilism that I never seem to shake, and a desire to dance in the face of it, to find the humour and beauty in the inevitable demise of everything. I still distrust the social norms that I see around me and think that individuality should be embraced and celebrated far more that it is. So yeah, I’m still a Punk when the wind’s foul and the hawk makes off with my hand-saw.

    I no longer think of myself as a brother, for all intents and purposes he’s simply another acquaintance of mine. We don’t exchange gifts, we don’t call each other, I’d never ask him for help on anything. We don’t interact except by coincidence, usually through our mother. But of course he is my brother, nothing can change our dna and our shared past after all.

    What I call myself all comes down to what I believe and no one or two word phrase can ever encompass that in its entirety. I am a brother, but not really. I am a Punk, but not really. I am A plus, but not really. Not because I dislike this growing movement, far from it. I came to Pharyngula for the atheism, and now that those arguments have started to sound repetitive I stay for the social justice. But the label is just that, a convenient tag to hang a conversation upon. A shorthand to use when there is no time to detail all that I believe.

    And here’s the thing that truly makes me wary of labels: I can’t see the future. Just as a drunken asshole hopped up on a false sense of temporal superiority could send the badge I’d pinned to my chest, with rusty safety pins of course, spinning off into the night with a single drunken challenge, the A plus label is vulnerable.

    So, I am A plus, sort of. But I’d rather you pulled up that chair, watch the back leg it’s a bit dodgy, pour yourself a beer from the jug, and we’ll talk about what we really are.

  218. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ Giliell

    The mentioning of dinosaurs reminds me of the latest made-for-David Marjanović cartoon in the paper today: Linky here.

    *sigh*
    Egypt’s sexual harassment of women ‘epidemic’ Link to BBC.

    “Religious fundamentalism arose, and they began to target women. They want women to go back to the home and not work.

    “Male patriarchal culture does not accept that women are higher than men, because some women had education and got to work, and some men lagged behind and so one way to equalise status is to shock women and force a sexual situation on them anywhere.

    And the harassers are getting younger and younger.

    Oy Vey! The whole world is a battlefield… :(

  219. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    Lions due… → Lions do…

    Which becomes lions doo doo.

    Seriously, blf, how could you miss one that was that was that obvious?

  220. says

    Bill Maher produced a good bit on George W. Bush’s lingering effects over the Republican Party.

    Bush is the only former president to not make an appearance at his party’s national convention in 40 years. It’s like Bush has been scrubbed from history.

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/09/03/13636086-bushs-lingering-presence-over-his-party

    Maher video at the link.

    Bush himself may be in the witness protection program but Bush people are everywhere. They’re running the Romney campaign, their concepts are in every line of the policy agenda, and they’re slated to be on the Romney/Ryan cabinet.

    Bush loyalists are running Romney.

  221. carbonbasedlifeform says

    Fascinating quote from Ben Stein at at politico.com. Stein is saying

    “[Romney] has all around him the look of a losing candidate,” the economist and actor said Thursday on Tavis Smiley’s PBS program.

    Stein, who made waves in May for saying he doesn’t think President Obama is a very smart man, said the chief reason for the GOP nominee’s woes is his lack of a strategy for economic recovery.

    “Mr. Romney does not have a plan to turn things around. All he’s saying, and correctly so, is that Mr. Obama said he had a plan that would work and it didn’t,” Stein said. “But does Mr. Romney have a better plan? If he does, we haven’t seen it.”

  222. blf says

    Most of the instructions seem to harp on the fact that the spanking has to really hurt.

    Hurt who? The spanker, the spankee, the witnesses, the doctors/nurses/paramedics treating the spankee’s hand / spankee’s target region(s?), the insurance company, the peas, or…?

     ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━

    how could you miss one that was that was that obvious?

    Screeches and throws doo doo…

  223. says

    Okay, am I the only one who didn’t know that planet earth has a “global strategic maple syrup reserve”?

    Apparently lots of other people knew. They knew, they came, they committed a crime by heisting millions of dollars worth of maple syrup.

    Now I’m wondering if we have a global strategic bacon reserve … and is it in danger?

    Quebec police are on the hunt for a sticky-fingered thief after millions of dollars of maple syrup vanished from a Quebec warehouse.

    The theft was discovered during a routine inventory check last week at the St-Louis-de-Blandford warehouse, where the syrup is being held temporarily. The Federation of Quebec Maple Syrup Producers, which is responsible for the global strategic maple syrup reserve, initially kept the news quiet, hoping it would help police solve the crime quickly….

    Link.

  224. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ Ogg

    Which becomes lions doo doo.

    blf was referring to xtians becoming lion’s doo doo? ;)

    @ rorschach

    [from link] Women’s rights activists say sexual harassment is a rampant problem in India, where an increasing number of women are joining the workforce.

    Atheism, Egypt, India … is this a sign we are winning? (Though it may seem counter-intuitive.)

    The same happened with racist discrimination in USA. Listen to Nina Simone’s song: Mr Backlash:

    When I try to find a job
    To earn a little cash
    All you got to offer
    Is your mean old white backlash

  225. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    Screeches and throws doo doo…

    So are you in the ruinning to become the Primate of Eireland?

    Which becomes lions doo doo.

    blf was referring to xtians becoming lion’s doo doo? ;)

    No. He failed to make the full progression: Lions do what lions do which becomes lion’s doo doo.

  226. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ Weedmonkey

    Yeah, voting fossils back into existence.

    (Literally: This may be the last election in the USA with a majority comprised of privileged white people.(Was it Rachel Maddow that pointed this out?) The current US constitution is also a dinosaur on life support. Hey ‘Merkins, get into the Holocene already!)

  227. says

    blf @343

    Now I’m wondering if we have a global strategic bacon reserve

    Yes!
    Ah! Thanks for the link.

    I thought our global strategic bacon reserve might have been in Rev. Big Dumb Chimp’s house.

  228. Louis says

    I believe very firmly that discipline in the domestic setting is not merely necessary but compulsory. Especially the physical disciplining of one spouse by another.

    {What’s that? Could it be the sound of an incredibly obvious joke stampeding over the hill? No of course not! The very idea!}

    I have been a very naughty boy and deserve a good spanking.

    What? WHAT? That’s perfectly legitimate isn’t it?

    {Wanders off grumbling}

    Bloody killjoys.

    Louis

  229. StevoR says

    @324.Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg :

    I remember that when we visited David’s museum, there was a movie on elephants and she asked why they drink out of the muddy river and not out of a clean dish.

    Because it adds some extra flavouring?

    (My dog, like many others, will choose to drink form the fishpond even when the alternative of a clean dish of water is freely available. So, could even be true!)

  230. Patricia, OM says

    Esteleth – er, (whispers) the one over on Ravelery in our group.

    Louis – I don’t know how you expect to get 12 of the best when you’ve left your paddle hanging on the wall.

  231. opposablethumbs says

    Re lions and zebras etc., we always used to emphasise how the lions were hungry and needed food for themselves and for their cubs to eat.

    After a while it got so that we’d be watching a wildlife documentary, say, and when the cute prey animal was clearly about to get pounced on the watchers would give voice to a triumphant and satisfied chorus of “lunch!” .

  232. Patricia, OM says

    Katansi – Sounds to me like your friend probably can’t give up religion because she doesn’t want to. So you’re correct there. Annie Laurie Gaylor has a book out called Woe Unto the Women that you might want to present to your friend as a christmas gift, with a suitable dedication in the front, that way she wouldn’t dare throw it away. *smirk* I have the book & love it, it’s brutal! (on the bible)

    Hotshoe – Color Affection seems like the “hot knit” right now. I did Wisteria Arbor in the spring & it was fuuun to knit. The Pharyngula group has a project going on Ravelry *not suitable reading for anyone pregnant* if you need something to work on.

    Lynna, OM – Yep, my good ol’ Brethren believed you had to beat the wife and kiddies until they were bloody or you weren’t doin’ it right. Funny how much sweet baby jezus likes that sort of thing.

  233. MG Myers says

    StarStuff @ 249 – Thanks for the link to the Humanists of Florida Association Annual Conference on September 28-30, 2012. PZ just put the information on the sidebar.

  234. David Marjanović says

    Not caught up! Has everyone seen this yet?

    Apparently Duke Energy has been funding voter ID laws. Sign the petition.

    Having signed a few other petitions, I get lots of e-mails telling me to donate to Democratic campaigns in the USA. Not being a citizen or resident, I prefer not to try; but other people might? CREDO (interesting name) is a Super-PAC that wants to take down all 11 Tea Party Representatives even though it’s, like, totally “not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee”.

    German news sez (click on the picture for a less cropped version, probably safe for work) there’s a new movie from Austria that features a “masturbation scene with a crucifix”. It’s called “Paradise: Faith” and was presented at a festival in Venice. The “ultraconservative Catholic organization ‘NO 194′” is suing everyone (including the Film Festival of Venice) for blasphemy. Its president, the lawyer Pietro Guerini, “hopes for an exemplary punishment for the filmmaker. ‘In my view, he would even deserve a prison sentence, because he insults not just the Catholic religion, but also those who are Catholics, with his blasphemic scenes. According to Italian law, only a fine is possible. But for us this is not so much about the punishment, but about the sentence’, Guerini said in an interview by the APA [Austrian Press Agency].

    ‘In contrast to the Muslims, we Catholics never react when our religion is insulted, but this time the limit of tolerance has been transgressed. Italy and Austria are countries with a Catholic tradition that must be defended’, said the lawyer from the Lombard city of Bergamo.

    ‘I’m aware of the fact that with this lawsuit the interest in Seidl’s movie will increase even further. I hope, however, that my initiative will keep others from insulting the Catholic religion’, said the lawyer.

    Guerini founded ‘NO 194′ three years ago. The organization has about 10,000 members. According to Guerini, this is the strongest Italian association that campaigns against pregnancy interruption.”

    Astute comment from Alicublog:

    The real problem for Rmoney & Co. is that the only reason why Eastwood was considered such a catch for them, especially with his moderate-to-liberal social views, was that they were hoping that some of that charisma and gravitas would rub off on the most un-jazzy man in America (although Ryan and Santorum and, well, actually quite a lot of the attendees could give Mittens a run for his money there). What they got instead was Grandpa Simpson trying to tell “The Aristocrats” and losing track of the narrative halfway through. It rather suits them.

    =8-)

    Looks like they whitewashed the entire basis of mormonism out of the doctrine.

    *pretending to be able to raise one eyebrow*

    Fascinating.

  235. David Marjanović says

    The 11 Tearepresentatives: Allen West (FL-22), Joe Walsh (IL-8), Chip Cravaack (MN-8), Sean Duffy (WI-7), Frank Guinta (NH-1), Steve King (IA-5), Mike Fitzpatrick (PA-8), Dan Lungren (CA-7), Mike Coffman (CO-6), Jim Renacci (OH-16), (MN-6).

  236. Tethys says

    Hmm, I think there is someone missing from that list of tea-partiers who need to be removed from office.

    Michelle Bachmann (MN-6)

  237. David Marjanović says

    The mentioning of dinosaurs reminds me of the latest made-for-David Marjanović cartoon in the paper today: Linky here.

    ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

    Bush is the only former president to not make an appearance at his party’s national convention in 40 years. It’s like Bush has been scrubbed from history.

    I couldn’t possibly imagine why!

  238. David Marjanović says

    Michelle Bachmann (MN-6)

    Oopsie. Yes. Copypasta fail.

    She’s spelled Michele, though, like a male Italian, not like a Frenchwoman.

  239. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Bush is the only former president to not make an appearance at his party’s national convention in 40 years. It’s like Bush has been scrubbed from history.

    More “wiped” than “scrubbed.”

  240. thunk, circumzenithal arc says

    David Marjanovic:

    Joe Walsh (IL-8)

    This dunderhead represents my (even though I had no say in that).

    It’s a suburban area full of privileged Tea-ites. The vote was really close, but they prevailed.

    Bah. At least gerrymandering means that one of the Rethugs will have to go.

  241. Patricia, OM says

    Nerd – Alright, very funny. Har-de-har! You just beam that damned closet of yours back home, or I’m telling everyone you have a transporter.

    *starts tapping foot*

  242. says

    Hi there

    The US had a Strategic Helium Reserve. It’s being sold off though.

    Helium is becoming increasingly rare and expensive. The times of helium-filled balloons are probably over unless the increased price will now lead to new technologies that can extract it from the air.

    +++
    Dicussions with one of my BFFs are always kind of fun.
    We were discussing assisted suicide. While she’s totally in favour of it for people with terminal illnesses, she’s totally agaist it for paralyzed people. Because…
    Well, because she doesn’t think it right. Because if you open that door once there will be euthanasia. Confronted with the fact that it doesn’t seem to happen in countries where there is assisted suicide she said “I still don’t think it’s right”. And then she used all the criteria that are totally met by paralyzed people for why she’s in favour of it for people with terminal illnesses.
    I hope I and the other BFF made her think.

  243. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    The times of helium-filled balloons are probably over unless the increased price will now lead to new technologies that can extract it from the air.

    Change to hydrogen. It would certainly make it more interesting. Especially with all the open-flame candles on the cake.

    =====

    Dinner tonight:

    Roman bean soup with smoked keilbasa and homemade cornbread.

  244. says

    Good morning all! I had the weirdest fucking dreams today. I was in high school waiting for some big event to happen, and then I went to the bathroom and the lights didn’t work and somehow I lost my shoes and didn’t notice, and the paper towels were printed up like newspapers.

    Og, I’m having sort of what your having, except Spanish style. Rice and beans with chorizo, and corn muffins.

  245. Patricia, OM says

    Mexican rice and pork ribs. Cooking is the only break I’m getting from that damned bathroom. *SNORT*

  246. Amblebury, I doesn't afraid of NOTHING! says

    ‘morning!

    There is not hope for me. Assimilation is complete. Last night I dreamt of PZ.

    A couple of days ago, there transpired one of those conversations you have when you’ve been driving too long. Someone used the phrase “piss-ant” and questions were asked – do ants in fact piss?

    PZ answered in my dream. Yes they do! And you can make spaghetti out of it!

  247. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    What transporter?

    *stands in front of something wrapped in a camo sheet*

  248. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Patricia:

    Mexican rice and pork ribs.

    I have some pink food coloring if you’d like your meal to remind yo of your bathroom project…

  249. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Amblebury:

    Someone used the phrase “piss-ant” and questions were asked – do ants in fact piss?

    I don’t know if they piss or not (I imagine they have to get rid of stuff somehow), but ‘piss ant’ is such a cool term, I had to look it up:

    A pissant, also seen as piss-ant has its origin is with pismire, a 14th-century word for ant. The term is also used as an insulting noun, and a pejorative adjective. The original pissant is any of a certain group of large ant species, commonly called wood ants, that make mounded nests in forests throughout most of Europe.The name pissant arises from the urine-like odor produced by their nesting material—needles and straw from pine trees—and the formic acid that constitutes their venom.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pissant

  250. Patricia, OM says

    What transporter?

    Yep, I knew it was you.

    Tony – Where would you like to wear that pink food coloring? I can’t even stand the sight of Pepto right now!

  251. Tony •King of the Hellmouth• says

    Patricia:
    I have enough pink in my rainbow flag. Thanks :)

    I believe your gravatar could use some though… :)

  252. Patricia, OM says

    Tony – What you don’t see my ruby beak beneath those long flirty lashes?
    Actually I love that gravatar, it has the bosom of those old New Yorker matron cartoons, and an uppity stance. Just my sorta Pullet™!

  253. birgerjohansson says

    “Re lions and zebras etc., we always used to emphasise how the lions were hungry and needed food for themselves and for their cubs to eat”
    .
    If the supercivilization called “the Culture” in the SF novels of Iain Banks had to confront a moral dilemma like that, they would probably feed the lions with vat-grown meat.
    .
    BTW if you want to read about seriously badass predators, see the biology of the planet Masada in the novels of Neal Asher: gabbleducks, hiorunes, hooders and the like. Roads had to be provided with bunkers at intervals, when a radio alert went out about a hooder approaching you went for the nearest bunker as fast as possible. Mere fences were useless for anything except the smallest critters*. Harry Harrison’s “Deathworld” was a pleasant park by comparison.

    *The biosphere was partially synthetic, the wildlife genetically designed by the extinct Atheter supercivilisation

  254. birgerjohansson says

    “What transporter?”

    *stands in front of something wrapped in a Somebody Elses’ Problem field*
    — — — — — — —

    “its origin is with pismire”

    pissmyra is a current Swedish word, showing the relation with other Norse languages.*

    Another, rather favourite example of mine; A krake is an overturned tree usually with a prominent root system turned up into the air (and looking squid-like).

    *I just realised it sounds a bit like “P Z Myers”, another entity that will make attackers miserable.

  255. says

    Trinioler: You have blanket permission to transcribe any public statement I make. I find it a little weird that you even have to ask: why would I want to discriminate against deaf people?

    Oh, and ignore Justin Vacula. He’s a fool.

  256. cicely (Something Morbid & Darkly Humorous) says

    Does anybody in the Horde have experience with Splat hair color, specifically the Blue Envy? Tips, hints, suggestions?
    -

    Okay, am I the only one who didn’t know that planet earth has a “global strategic maple syrup reserve”?

    Hunh. I never dreamed there was such a thing!
    -

    Or perhaps Bush was shrubbed from history?

    Pruned, maybe?
    -

    I have just started Good Omens by Pratchett and Gaiman.

    Highly Enjoyable.
    -

  257. opposablethumbs says

    I have just started Good Omens by Pratchett and Gaiman.

    For the first time? Oh lucky, lucky you! Enjoy! :)

    they would probably feed the lions with vat-grown meat.

    Sounds good to me. But I’d be wondering how they manage the breeding programme to mimic the effects of natural selection adequately; that sounds pretty difficult in the long term.

  258. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    I have just started Good Omens by Pratchett and Gaiman.

    I picked that up on my way home from a fire in Colorado. I finished it while taxiing up to the gate at my home airport. It is good.

  259. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    He was pretty cool in all his movie and TV roles, even in sort of crappy stuff.

    Did a good job as the muscle/lawyer in The Finder, a spin-off off of Bones on Fox.

  260. says

    cicely: wonder if Splat is really as unique and long lasting as they claim, especially since the instructions warn that it may run or rub off when wet (which Manic Panic, SFX et al also do). Sounds pretty much like your bog standard semipermanent bright hair dye. Maybe it’s better pigmented than Manic Panic (wouldn’t be hard).

    If you’re considering bleach before the color, eg. something permanent anyway, maybe you’d be interested in a permanent bright color that never rubs off or runs. Goldwell makes it and it’s called Elumen. A bit spendy but completely worth it. Lovely stuff.

  261. says

    Nerd, I was a big fan of The Finder, yet another clever, creative show that got thrown on the Fox trash heap so we could get yet another fucking reality show.

  262. trinioler says

    Trinioler: You have blanket permission to transcribe any public statement I make. I find it a little weird that you even have to ask: why would I want to discriminate against deaf people?

    Oh, and ignore Justin Vacula. He’s a fool.

    <3 PZ.

  263. cicely (Something Morbid & Darkly Humorous) says

    kristinc, at the moment, I’m just considering dying part (though not all) of my hair blue for Halloween, interpreted as “the entire month of October”, and probably continuing until it wears off/looks sad. The rest of my hair, I plan to dye black, which I don’t expect to be a problem. I’ve already bought the Splat, which does come with the bleach preparation stage.

    One day, when enough of my hair has grayed beyond caring whether I bleach it or not, I intend to dye some or all of my hair purple. This is sort of a “test of concept” thing.
    -

  264. says

    cicely: avoid light colored clothes, towels, bedding, and bathtubs for most of October is the only useful thing I can tell you in that case. My own experience lies in red and pink dyes, which I understand to be kind of a different animal to deal with in terms of fading/dye uptake.

  265. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Amblebury – Ant-piss spaghetti? *scratches head*

  266. says

    Trinioler:
    I was in the first podcast and of course you have my permission to transcribe what I said! I’m so sorry that you have to deal with this shit when you (and the other A+ scribes) are doing awesome work.

    If you want a statement that’s a little more accessible should you need to wave something in a naysayer’s face, shoot me an email (my addy’s on my blog) and I’ll reply with permission to transcribe what I have said, any podcasts I may do in the future, and permission to post or forward the email.

  267. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    deal with in terms of fading/dye uptake.

    I just want to point out that, upthread, I was referring to what I (incorrectly) saw as a morbid , not mordant, morbid turn of phrase for some of the ‘nyms. Mordants are a whole ‘nother kettle of dog piss.

    Hmm. I wonder if that would work for vibrant hair dye?

  268. MG Myers says

    Nutmeg @ 391 -

    Useful diagram! There’s certainly a lot of work to be done.

    After looking at the diagram, I checked on my bright orange “Vote No Don’t Limit the Freedom to Marry” yard sign. Yep. Still in place.

  269. says

    Nutmeg:

    Interesting chart. Makes me even more aware of how glad I am to have escaped the Deep South so long ago. And somewhat depressed over the way so little seems to have changed there.

    The report from my room:

    Three weeks into neuroleptic withdrawal. Still sick but possibly beginning ever so slightly to feel somewhat better. Most of the time, though, I don’t feel like saying anything, so I don’t. Trying to keep tabs on you all, though.

    I will now resubmerge into my stupor.

  270. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    eriktrips:

    Take care of yourself and be safe.

    ===========

    Sometimes I despair of Boy.

    He was sitting on the couch enjoying some magnificent Italian cheese — I don’t remember the name of the cheese, but it was like Asiago with truffles in it. And he was eating a can of spicey Goya Vienna sausages with it. Ermmmm?

  271. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    chigau:

    Nope. No ketchup.

    He did, however, come home with about 40 habanero peppers. He plans to make some of his own hot sauce. Hopefully it won’t melt the glass this time.

  272. chigau (違わない) says

    pepper story:
    We were trying to dry-roast chilis (don’t recall what kind) in a cast-iron pan on the stove-top.
    It went OK for a while, then a cloud of toxic formed and everyone in the kitchen dropped to the floor and crawled for the door.
    (I got the pan off the heat before I fled)
    The people in the next room, hearing the commotion, headed for the kitchen and soon went low and crawled for the door.
    So we hung out in the yard until the smoke cleared and used bottled hot-sauce.
    (very small house, short crawl-time)

  273. ibyea says

    @chigau
    A chili that, if roasted, causes toxic smoke… Now I am really curious about that chili.

  274. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    When protoWife and I were visiting my sister down at Ocean City, MD, we caught a couple dozen Blue Crabs and decided to steam them. Sister did not have a steamer, so we piled some empty beer cans in the bottom of the pot, added some water, added the crabs and dusted each layer with a healthy dosing of Old Bay seasoning. And set them to steam.

    The water ran out.

    The Old Bay seasoning burned. I have done the gas chamber in Army basic. This was worse.

    Another time, up at my parents place in Maine, I was making a sweet and sour chile sauce to go with a roast pork loin. I dry roasted the peppers (piquin, tabasco, and Thai bird chilis) and then tossed in the vinegar. I turned off the burner before I fled. Everyone fled. It was horrible. Almost as bad as the Old Bay seasoning.

    There are some things found in the kitchen that are dangerous — and I don’t mean all my knives.

  275. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Just got back from the most delightful vacation w/ Ms. DaisyCutter, SallyStrange, and Esteleth. Esteleth hosted us at her family’s charming cottage on a lake in rural Maine. Several things happened:

    1. Ms. DaisyCutter should open a bakery. . .she brought five metric fuckloads of homemade baked goods, including these yummy popovers.

    2. We ated lobster.

    3. Girl, fuck them fish. I spent hours Saturday in waters shallow and deep and not a goddamn one of them bit. No matter how many worms I impaled on that hook. Only thing I caught was my line on a rock which had to be un-hooked by an intrepid nine year old boy unafraid to swim and get it.

    4. SallyStrange taught me how to row in a canoe properly. We went across the lake and back, about a mile each way. Great work-out. PRO-TIP: never rise above your knees or do more than scooch your ass along to move about in a canoe. It’s Not Stable™.

    5. The lake is populated with loons, and they’re extraordinary. From a distance you think they’re ducks in the water, but they’re not. They’re loons, boo-ya. At night they make this haunting call. It’s hypnotic. The ones on this lake sounded like this (sorry I don’t know how to indicate rhythm in text):

    Ascending minor third (b—>d)
    Mordent (d—>c—>d)
    Back down to b.

    6.SallyStrange playing Ashokan Farewell on an c. 1870 treadle-pump reed parlor organ.

    7. Beer. Vodka. Beer.

    8. Woodstove fire at night.

    9. Beer. Vodka. Beer.

    And that’s most of the things.

  276. broboxley OT says

    canoe advice, early in the season deck out with life jacket jump up and down fart around and tip it 6 times or so. Practice mounting back in without touching the bottom of the waterway. You should be able to stand up and paddle, hang a dump over the edge and do the 3 shag urinal shuffle from a standing position. Josh, Hope they taught you the J stroke as well.

  277. broboxley OT says

    PZ and others, look at copyrighting the A plus stuff immediately so you dont get lawyered by the CompTIA that may claim ownership

  278. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Oh, Erik, I’m sorry to hear about the withdrawal. Tapering off psych meds can be most unpleasant. Get some junk food and just take to your bed until it’s over.

  279. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    On permission for transcription: Why is it necessary to ask for explicit permission? I’m not convinced that’s even legally required when people agree to appear by audio and video for public consumption. Reporters don’t have to seek written permission to quote a person they approach for a disclosed interview or discussion. Has there been an instance of someone harassing someone about “unauthorized transcription” that you’re reacting to?

    If this is a problem, it’s a problem that needs to be tackled at the outset by the producer of the podcast/video appearance. Running around getting individual permission for transcription is bullshit makework.

    Get the producer to include simple release language that participants agree to before taking part in the discussion. Problem solved (I’m still not convinced there is a genuine problem).

  280. hotshoe says

    Evening meal – stellline pasta topped with (canned) black beans which I cooked with a big splash of salsa molcajete, three chopped fresh tomatoes, and three or four slices worth of leftover bacon. The salsa is waaaay too hot – I could feel the sting just from the vapors rising while cooking. Ouch. Even a whole plateful of noodles didn’t calm it down much. But the flavors were so great. Tomorrow I’ll put some plain yogurt with it or maybe get some sour cream to temper it. I’ve still got two pounds of the salsa to use up somehow. Cheap Mexican grocery store – every town should have at least one!

  281. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I drank enough for all of you this weekend.

    I know most people’s here thoughts on college football, but it’s big in the BigDumbChimp household and somehow we, who rarely have people over, hosted two different football related gatherings at the BDC secret lair. This with me with full on pharyngitis and a sinus infection.

    All I can say is, ouch.

    My body is not happy with me.

  282. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    There is a toy out there called Loon Tune and it really does sound like a loon. My mom is getting one for Christmas/solstice this year. She doesn’t know it yet, but she is.

  283. chigau (違わない) says

    ibyea
    re: chili toxicity
    I don’t know how “toxic” it is but my immediate, almost autonomic response was GET THE FUCK OUT!!!
    I also recall something about some Aztec? Maya? killing some Spaniards by tossing some chilis on the fire, running out and shutting the door.

  284. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    I also recall something about some Aztec? Maya? killing some Spaniards by tossing some chilis on the fire, running out and shutting the door.

    Among the Aztec and Mixtec, boys were punished (for very serious things) by being held over a fire in which chilis were smoldering. Some accounts show this as a way to ‘toughen up’ the boys so they won’t cry.

    One of the problems, though, is that, although there are some surviving images from the early colonial period, we have, as far as I know, no way to tell if the punishment/treatment was real or was invented by the conquistadors and the priests to show that conquering Mexico was a good thing.

    (and this is from memory as I no longer have that book)

  285. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Almost any chile pepper with good heat can do that.I’ve cleared out my house a few times.

    Once that capsaicin is airborne, lookout.

    Just ask any one who has ever been pepper sprayed.

  286. says

    Josh,
    I was sorely tempted to go, believe me. This weekend was “borderline” for travel– I started my 8th month today, so technically I wouldn’t have been going against my doctor’s recommendations about being that far from home.

    On the other hand, I’ve been uncomfortable and crampy and peeing every half hour, so I’m not really the most fun to hang out with right now. So, I’ll see all of you lovelies once the DF makes her appearance (and maybe sooner if anyone’s passing through this way beforehand).

  287. says

    I’m tired, boss. Tired of bein’ on the road, lonely as a sparrow in the rain. I’m tired of never having me a buddy to be with, to tell me where we’s going to or coming from, or why. Mostly, I’m tired of people being ugly to each other. I’m tired of all the pain I feel and hear in the world every day. There’s too much of it. It’s like pieces of glass in my head all the time. Can you understand?

    I dunno if there’s any film quote I identify with better than that.

    Goodbye, Michael Clarke Duncan, and thank you for giving those words a wonderful voice.

  288. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    Well, g’night, all. I’m heading off to bed (perchance not to dream!). Wife has to work her street corner tomorrow and we will be taking our 90-year-old neighbor out to the bank, Dunkin Donuts and the pharmacy.

  289. says

    Once that capsaicin is airborne, lookout.

    Just ask any one who has ever been pepper sprayed.

    Couple years ago the cops idiotically sprayed someone inside my emergency room. Had to evacuate staff and patients, and the airborne capsaicin did really not agree with the asthma patients in particular. For me, one molecule is enough and I have to get out.

  290. says

    [Note: the following should only be taken as my unserstanding as an individual, my only involvement with A+scribe is that I helped on one part of one transcript so far so I sure as hell don't speak for them.]

    Josh, asking for permission is polite regardless of whether it is legally necessary. Even if it is legally necessary it would probably be the copyright owner who would need to give permission even more than the speaker (when they are different entities).

    I suppose that as A+scribe gets more known organisations that are sympathetic to its aim will make sure that the process is smooth to avoid unnecessary red tape but it is better to start of cautiously and ask politely than the other way around.

    Just look at one of the posters getting annoyed on Greta’s thread that hypothetically some part of a multi-participant conversation might be transcribed even without one of the participant’s approval even though she was also told that if a person did not want their work transcribes (say a vlogger talking on their own) then A+scribe would not transcribe such a video.

    From a legal standpoint, my limited understanding is that transcribing trumps copyrights at least in the case where you have a broadcasting license for the material (like a TV station) as they have to make it accessible by law to deaf or hard of hearing persons but I do not know if it applies to a third parties that does not have such a license, like A+scribe.

    I’m not too worried about it in the short term though because I only transcribed one 10 minutes segment and it was very time consuming, so I expect that we will find videos that their owner/participants are willing to have transcribed faster than we can transcribe them.

  291. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Couple years ago the cops idiotically sprayed someone inside my emergency room. Had to evacuate staff and patients, and the airborne capsaicin did really not agree with the asthma patients in particular. For me, one molecule is enough and I have to get out.

    Yep some moron set off some bear spray in the climbing shop I worked at in Jackson Hole, WY.

    Cleared the place out and quick.

  292. Socio-gen, something something... says

    I have done ALL the homework and READ ALL THE THINGS! At least, all the readings for tomorrow’s classes. I think it was a bazillion pages…or maybe just 200.

    From the Dept of “Stanley Milgram calling”: Pennsylvania State Police are looking for two men impersonating police officers, who pulled over a 23yo woman yesterday, asked for her license, ordered her out of her vehicle, and conducted a search. She was unharmed, her license was returned, and nothing was taken. They were wearing dark uniforms without any dept insignia …

    …and driving a 4-door Dodge Neon.
    — —
    kristinc @ 260
    Oh good gravy, yes! I am constantly surprised by people who spend more time picking out shoes than they do choosing their tattoo artist.

    Maple syrup and bacon reserves?! Do we have an egg or pancake batter reserve?

    Improbable Joe

    Michael Clarke Duncan died today.

    Well, that sucks. I always enjoyed the characters he played, even if the movie/show wasn’t great.

    cicely

    One day, when enough of my hair has grayed beyond caring whether I bleach it or not, I intend to dye some or all of my hair purple

    When my son told me last summer that he was considering buying a motorcycle, I told him to drive carefully because I’d get a new gray hair every time he rode. He texted back with a snarky, “I’m gonna ride fast and take chances.” So I told him fine; I’ve always wanted to dye my hair blue, but I learned at 15 that it doesn’t work with dark brown hair, so he’d be helping me out. (I doubt that swayed him, but he didn’t get the motorcycle.)

    It was just a joke, but the more time goes by, I’m loving the idea. I’ve intended to let my hair go gray when it pleased (only a few strands thus far) but now, being 50+ and having spiky bright blue hair seems like a great plan.

  293. PatrickG says

    Hrmm… soliciting some advice from people here.

    My recent online involvement with a number of atheist groups has now migrated to being easily searchable (I have a job interview in two days and always like to know what info is available). In fact, the info on my belonging to skeptic/atheist groups is now ranked higher on google than my (admittedly somewhat prior) scholarly papers and professional affiliations, which I’d much rather employers see.

    Given that I live in Kentucky, I’m … not too pleased by this. I don’t precisely want to hide my status (if asked, I answer honestly), but I don’t want to be flagrantly out to anybody who’s curious, either.

    Any tips for how to mitigate passive outed-ness? Thanks in advance for anybody who can offer assistance

    (Though I must add this is all YOUR damn fault, for encouraging me to be more open and affiliating with groups using my real name. Fucking FTB. Fucking Horde, specifically! You should have known I wouldn’t think of crawlers and bots.)

  294. StevoR says

    @391.Nutmeg :

    I found a link to this handy diagram of gay rights in the US. I’m bookmarking it for future reference. Maybe it will be useful to other people here.

    Cheers for that. Neat idea, well done. It did show me that Hawaii is considered part of the US southwest which I didn’t know – and a lot more as well.

    Anyone know is there a global version of that for non-Americans?

  295. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ Tony

    I believe your gravatar could use some though… :)

    Eeep. Your gravatar.

    If people are looking for upgrading their gravatars, I’d be willing to help.

    @ Chigau

    Silver (and PINK)

    @ Josh

    Our home is now filled with the delicious smells of Phoenicia’s Munificence.

  296. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ PatrickG

    for encouraging me to be more open and affiliating with [online?] groups using my real name.

    For the record I, for one, would actually DISCOURAGE people from doing anything of the sort. Only a few Pharyngulites know my name, even though I live in an atheist country.

  297. hotshoe says

    Cheers for that. Neat idea, well done. It did show me that Hawaii is considered part of the US southwest which I didn’t know – and a lot more as well.

    Well, Hawaii is not really considered part of the “US southwest” by anybody. So it makes sense that you didn’t know that. Ask any hundred people and I bet you’d get 101 different answers to “what is the southwest”, but I bet not one of them would include Hawaii. You need the four-corners states = Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah – plus Nevada and your picks of Texas, California, and/or maybe Oklahoma. That’s all.

    Seems the people who wrote that diagram lumped Hawaii in with the “southwest” merely because that’s the closer part of the continent, geographically, and probably because it didn’t seem practical to have Hawaii hanging out all by itself in a separate “island” category of data.

    Interestingly, there are official definitions of US regions. I never thought about that before, but it makes sense for various US Federal programs that the country would be officially divided into administrative regions. Of course it turns out that the official regions don’t coincide for every different agency. The dominant standard is the one defined by the Budget office, which has 10 regions. Region IX gets the Pacific Island territories with Hawaii and California plus Arizona and Nevada (but not the crucial southwest states of New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah.)

  298. Rey Fox says

    Hawaii is the southernmost and westernmost state in the US.

    (Alaska? The Aleutian Islands stretch over the 180th Meridian, so it’s the easternmost.)

  299. says

    Good morning

    cicely

    The rest of my hair, I plan to dye black, which I don’t expect to be a problem.

    Don’t count on it. I died mine black for years until I started to turn grey and the damn colour wouldn’t stick anymore. After I tried all dyes at the market I switched to a reddish brown and that works fine.

    Josh, Sally, Esteleth
    Eeeeeenvy

    Erictrips
    Take care

  300. blf says

    According to Online Etymology Dictionary:

    pissant
    1661, “an ant,” from first element of pismire (q.v.) + ant. Meaning “contemptible, insignificant person” is from 1903.

    pismire (n.)
    late 14c., from pyss “urine” (said to be in reference to the acrid smell of an anthill) + mire “an ant,” probably from O.N. maurr “ant,” perhaps distantly connected with Gk. myrmex, L. formica “ant.” Cf. pissant, also early Du. mierseycke (from seycke “urine”), Finn. kusiainen (from kusi “urine”).

    He is as angry as a pissemyre,
    Though þat he haue al that he kan desire.
    [Chaucer]

    Applied contemptuously to persons from 1560s.

  301. birgerjohansson says

    Miscellaneous science links:

    Targeting inflammation to treat depression http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-09-inflammation-depression.html
    Spanish researchers report a promising start for new anticancer drug http://phys.org/news/2012-09-spanish-anticancer-drug.html
    Global survey reveals routes to boosting crop yields http://www.nature.com/news/global-survey-reveals-routes-to-boosting-crop-yields-1.11306
    Moon’s magnetic umbrellas may shield future spaceships http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22236-moons-magnetic-umbrellas-may-shield-future-spaceships.html
    Fracking could be combined with carbon capture plans http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22232-fracking-could-be-combined-with-carbon-capture-plans.html

  302. Amblebury, I doesn't afraid of NOTHING! says

    Well, who knew. Thanks Tony and blf. I first heard the term pissant relatively recently, and hadn’t looked into its origins. I like pismire/pissemyre very, very much. Yes indeed. Into the verbal armoury they go.

    As regards the spaghetti Part-Time Insomniac, as with most dreams, it made sense at the time.

    Hot damn that sounds like a fine weekend, Josh, Sally, Esteleth.

  303. Amblebury, I doesn't afraid of NOTHING! says

    birgerjohansson carbon sequestration, not necessarily or exclusively into fracked fields is definitely A Thing. It’s being done already. Compelling companies and governments to do it is the issue.

    The resident Petroleum Sciencer is out enjoying himself at the movies, so I cannot regale you with more Amazing Facts. I do know one of the projects he’s looking at is sequestration of emissions from coal-fired power plants.

  304. Louis says

    Rev BDC, #421,

    I drank enough for all of you this weekend.

    {Raises hand}

    {Looks on with no small degree of incredulity}

    I think we might need to put that to the test one time! ;-)

    Louis

    P.S. The liver is evil and must be punished, fight on, brother. We will overcome!

  305. Louis says

    Josh, #412 (and all involved),

    I HAS AN ENVY.

    {Memo to self, must get back over to the USA and DRINK WITH ALL THE PHARYNGULOIDS!}

    Louis

  306. Louis says

    Giliell,

    Helium is becoming increasingly rare and expensive. The times of helium-filled balloons are probably over…

    Speaking as someone who needs liquid He for work (NMR machines and the like):

    GOOD! It’s about time. Even the incredibly efficient He scrubbing/recycling systems we use need refilling occasionally. I get genuinely annoyed by people pissing Helium up into a balloon for Great Aunt Margaret’s 90th not being dead but still quite racist day.

    Yeah I’m a killjoy, and?

    Although I do second Oggie’s excellent suggestion. Use (cheap and easily available) hydrogen instead. At least then some REAL fun could be had. Oh look squeaky voice…fuck that…BANG!

    Louis

  307. birgerjohansson says

    Mock The Movie transcript (based on crappy post-apocalyptic SF) http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/09/01/mock-the-movie-in-the-year-2889-transcript-and-subtitles-file/
    (the event coincided with the RNC, inviting interesting comparisons)
    The film was made for TV in 1967, the projected future was supposed to be 1977 but the company decided to name it 2880 because it sounds better…
    Telepathic cannibal mutants… see the link for industrial-grade mocking!

    — — — —
    Surprising development in blasphemy case in Pakistan http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2012/09/03/surprising-development-in-blasphemy-case-in-p
    — — —
    Miscell. science links:
    Protein discovery could lead to ‘genomic debuggers’ http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528803.000-protein-discovery-could-lead-to-genomic-debuggers.html
    Alzheimer’s gene ‘diabetes link’ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18445701
    .
    Duet for Saw and Coyotes http://freethoughtblogs.com/camelswithhammers/2012/09/03/duet-for-saw-and-coyotes/

  308. AshPlant says

    Helium is the second most abundant element in the universe, and it’s created all the time.

    So the separated and purified reserves used in human industry will just fill up naturally then? Excellent.

  309. blf says

    The space elevator’s cable should be a pipe for pumping down all the He floating around “out there”… ;-)

    (Yes, I realize the amount of He in the near-Earth environment is basically zero.)

    The He shortage (esp. of liquid He) made The Grauniad earlier this year.

  310. Louis says

    John,

    Oh sure He is abundant in the universe, I presume this means you’ll be popping off to liquefy a few billion tonnes of it and cart it back here for us will you?

    Get on with it man!

    Louis

    P.S. Giliell, clenched Tentacle Salute with Helium Stars to the Spouse! ;-)

  311. birgerjohansson says

    What happens when film directors breathe helium instead of oxygen:
    Random excerpts from Mock The Movie:
    .
    @lousycanuck: “So if the Geiger counter is so high in that guy’s studio, why’s he still talking?”
    @blakestacey:“Fortunately, my sweater protected us from the radiation!”
    @drskyskull: “Larry didn’t come.” Thanks to Twitter, it is impossible for me to interpret that phrase in an innocent way.
    @lousycanuck: “Help, there’s a supermutant in my house. Time to take a nap on the chair.
    @DrRubidium: “am I the only one that wants the entire cast wiped out in a blood bath of telepathic cannibalism?”
    @drskyskull: “I’ll bet I could recreate all the significant moments of this film with home movies of my cats.”
    @blakestacey: “Drink and dancing are bad, but shooting a man to death? I kind of like that idea.”
    @blakestacey: “Hey, there’s water in this water.”
    @DrRubidium: “that was the WORST type of bad sci-fi/horror flick. One with a low body count. BOO”
    @drskyskull: “I’m just going to pretend that Joanna and Steve get crushed by a meteorite right after the movie ends.”
    @DrRubidium: “It seems Clint Eastwood’s #RNC2012 speech involved the Invisible Man. This makes it scarier than this week’s @MockTM
    @drskyskull: “Switched over to the RNC. Way more mutants”
    @szvan: “I have no idea why they put this on Archive and YouTube instead of jealously protecting their intellectual property”.

  312. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I think we might need to put that to the test one time! ;-)

    yes!

    P.S. The liver is evil and must be punished, fight on, brother. We will overcome!

    It was very very bad. The punishment fit it.

  313. ImaginesABeach says

    Had a nice end of summer camping trip with GirlChild, BoyChild and Girl’sBestFriend. Minnesota has some really nice state parks. For the late August trip, I generally rent a camper cabin instead of tenting because my tent is really big (sleeps 10), which means it doesn’t hold heat well and we’ve had 40 degree F overnight some years. These are just sleeping cabins, we still cook outdoors, etc.

    This year, we visited the Runestone Museum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Runestone). I went in knowing that the weight of scientific authority comes down on the “hoax” side of the question, but the museum presents it in such a way that if you don’t have prior knowledge, you would be totally convinced. There is no acknowledgement that anyone doesn’t accept it as real.

    We also visited the Charles A. Lindbergh State Historical Site. They mention his anti-semitism only in passing, and ignore his racism completely.

    Both of these visits led to discussions about relying on just one source for your information and the risk of bias.

  314. ImaginesABeach says

    Also, deserving its own post: We came home to MAIL! from Caine. The most wonderful watercolor artist card of Zoe, just in time for GirlChild’s first day of school gift.

  315. says

    Justin Vacula posts a nasty video about how A+scribe is bullying people.

    That requires a particularly impressive level of self awareness failure. Making videos accessible to deaf people is bullying?

    I wonder how far he’d go. If he ran someone over, do you think he’d accuse the person he hit of bullying him, for denting his car?

  316. says

    Oh sure He is abundant in the universe

    The uppercase H makes it sound like you are talking about god, which made me think, maybe god is Helium?

    We are told He is everywhere in the universe.
    We have a pronounced scarcity here on Earth.
    He makes you talk weird.

    The big difference is that we have evidence of the existence of Helium, so:
    Helium 1 – god 0

    Here god is getting his non-existent ass handed to him by a lightweight [gas].

  317. blf says

    The UK has as new Minister for Health (some clewless clown named Jeremy Hunt), who is on record as approving of homeopathetidiocy. With an online poll at The Grauniad ripe for adjustment (currently 94% No (it’s bunk) vs. 6% deluded, number of votes unknown).

    Some of the comments are brilliant:

     ● Homeopathy, the Creationism of the UK.
     ● To be fair, homoeopathy has been tested and found effective exactly as much as Jeremy Hunt has.
     ● Conservatism, the homeothapy of politics. Less than one part per million of common sense and consideration guaranteed.
     ● I worry that the corollary may occur to him sooner or later: the NHS could be made much more effective by taking just a single doctor or nurse and diluting across the whole country.
     ● Oh, you’ve got to be ****ing kidding me! In a developed, secular democracy, we have a health minister who supports unscientific twaddle.
     ● Homeopathists must be devastated by this result. Five percent is a complete disaster for them. After, it’s a long way off the 0.000000000000000000000001% they need to be really effective…
     ● Well his head’s full of fresh air – why shouldn’t his medicine cabinet be full of fresh water…?
     ● “Have you tried it?” I haven’t tried smashing my face off with an oversized mallet — but I know that it isn’t an effective medicine.…

  318. says

    I wonder how far he’d go. If he ran someone over, do you think he’d accuse the person he hit of bullying him, for denting his car?

    We’ve been sued over something like that…

    +++
    OK, I’ve given in and just took the fucking Paracetamol hoping it would get my brain working. It’s to more days and then I’ll see a doctor who can hopefully tell me what’s fucking wrong with me and fix it.

  319. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Audley:
    Yay on the day off; yuck to the doctor visit.

    ImaginesABeach:
    I’d never heard of the Runestone until one of my professors last semester used it as an example of people believing what they want to believe despite all evidence to the contrary. (He and one of the archaeology profs here wrote a paper on it, IIRC.)

    I couldn’t get over how many people in the class were utterly ready to go toe-to-toe with him because “IT IS TOO TRUE! THE VIKINGS WERE HERE!” Unsurprisingly, these were the same people who, once he’d gutted their objections, vociferously argued against his comparison of belief in the Runestone with belief in gods.

    hyperdeath:
    Yes. By walking out in front of his car, that pedestrian wanted to be hit and is just using the accident to get attention. “Stop whining about broken legs! You’ll make people think this is a dangerous city to walk in! You’re embarrassing people who drive and calling all drivers reckless!”

    And he’d find have supporters saying it didn’t happen because they walk there all the time and have never been hit by a car. It’s just bullying to claim that hitting pedestrians with cars is a bad thing, or that it even happens.

  320. ChasCPeterson says

    The whole You-tube phenomenon is fascinating to me. Why do people like Vacula think that video is a good medium for them? The second time he read (rather poorly) verbatim a whole freaking paragraph that was right there on the screen to be read, I quit.
    If your video consists of you reading words while showing static images, then it should not be a video (this goes, btw, also for teh ECO’s soporific reply to Thunderf**t, imo; wel-written as always but extremely ineffective as video).
    The only thing worse is people who point the cam at their face while they are clearly reading words off the screen just below. Just publish the fucking words.
    And that’s not even starting on the just-roll-and-ramble types.
    I don’t get it. Is it really just the modern dream to Be On TV? Ego pure and simple?

  321. ImaginesABeach says

    WMD Kitty from last Wednesday – My wheelchair specialist contacts tell me that if a wheelchair cushion that depends on air for pressure reduction can often be repaired in the same way you would a bike tire – try a patch kit from a bike store.

  322. says

    Good(?) morning!

    I decided to splurge and buy a 12-pack of Coke Zero last night, and I drank 3 of them and found myself up until 3AM and up at 6:30. So woohoo!

  323. Louis says

    blf,

    I has a ominous feeling of despond regarding the reshuffle.

    I am going to hide for the remainder of parliament, no one wants to start a revolution, I asked.

    Louis

  324. Beatrice says

    Hello all!
    I hope all is going well. I’m totally threadrupt.

    I was out of town and without a computer for a week and I forgot about Doctor Who!
    Downloading is only at 53.4% now. I’ll probably wait and watch it in the evening.

  325. says

    ImaginesABeach:

    Also, deserving its own post: We came home to MAIL! from Caine. The most wonderful watercolor artist card of Zoe, just in time for GirlChild’s first day of school gift.

    Yay! Glad it got there okay. :D

  326. says

    Also, I’m pretty sure I saw a woodchuck outside my house last night. A woodchuck in the ghetto(in the ghettooooo) was sort of unexpected, to say the least.

  327. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I don’t get it. Is it really just the modern dream to Be On TV? Ego pure and simple?

    Hey it worked for Chris Crocker.

    Of course that depends on how you define “worked”.

  328. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Also, I’m pretty sure I saw a woodchuck outside my house last night. A woodchuck in the ghetto(in the ghettooooo) was sort of unexpected, to say the least.

    Is there an over abundance of wood needing to be chucked in the ghetto?

  329. broboxley OT says

    I know the back story of the runestones but I thought it was fairly settled that the norse were out and about in hudson bay? Has something changed?

  330. blf says

    Ah, so that’s where the woodchuck went. The mildly deranged penguin was wondering. Ok you foul beastie, she’s gonna get you this time, and this time you’re gonna stay in the fermenting vats.

    (She’s recently heard of Woodchuck Cider and decided making her own version would be a good way of dealing with the surfeit of apples from the tree…)

  331. says

    Canada is confusing the Koch brothers, or maybe they just have Republican brain damage. I saw a recent interview in which one of the Koch brothers came out in favor of gay marriage, and I had some hope.

    But then they spent $6 million to air a bogus anti-Affordable Healthcare ad.

    The Americans for Prosperity attack ad features on-screen text that reads, “Under President Obama, America’s health care is becoming more like the Canadian system that failed Shona.”

    The problem with this is that it’s completely at odds with reality. The only aspect of the American system similar to Canada’s is our Medicare program — and it’s extremely popular in the U.S.

    In order for this ad to work, the Koch brothers are assuming voters don’t understand American health care, don’t understand Canadian health care, don’t understand the differences between the two, and don’t realize just how many millions of Americans suffered — and literally died — because of the failures of the old system. That’s a whole lot of ignorance to count on.

    … if the “Obamacare” system is so dangerously life-threatening, why is it working well in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney created a state-based model?

    Video of the ad, plus more commentary here:
    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/09/04/13655596-the-koch-brothers-canadian-confusion

  332. says

    Remember Rand Paul’s conspiracy theory about armed meteorologists?

    Well, now a different variation of that conspiracy is making the rounds (pun intended). And Tucker Carlson has published it on his Daily Caller website.
    Excerpt:

    The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets to be delivered to 41 locations in major cities across the U.S. No one has yet said what the purpose of these purchases is, though we are led to believe that they will be used only in an emergency to counteract and control civil unrest.

    Tucker Carlson always was a little odd, but he has really gone off the deep end. Which makes me wonder if, as they age, right wingers experience more brain damage.

    The Daily Caller piece, written by a retired Army major, goes on to argue the Social Security Administration expects to kill 174,000 American citizens, possibly as part of a larger plot that involves arresting every member of Congress and arming “illegal immigrants.” The article, for lack of a better word, concludes that an American military coup may be necessary. No, really, that’s what it says.

    Commentary from Steve Benen.

    Oh, yeah, the truth, as banal and unexciting as it is:

    The bullets are for Social Security’s office of inspector general, which has about 295 agents who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes, said Jonathan L. Lasher, the agency’s assistant IG for external relations. The agents carry guns and make arrests — 589 last year, Lasher said. They execute search warrants and respond to threats against Social Security offices, employees and customers.

    The debunking is courtesy of the Associated Press.

  333. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets

    and

    the Social Security Administration expects to kill 174,000 American citizens

    damn good shots those SSA guys.

  334. says

    The Daily Caller piece, written by a retired Army major, goes on to argue the Social Security Administration expects to kill 174,000 American citizens, possibly as part of a larger plot that involves arresting every member of Congress and arming “illegal immigrants.” The article, for lack of a better word, concludes that an American military coup may be necessary. No, really, that’s what it says.

    That makes perfect sense. Clearly, each SSA sniper will kill one American for each issued round, about 600 rounds apiece. And by killing 0.005% of America and then being COMPLETELY OUT OF AMMUNITION, Obama’s SSA forces will have defeated the military, police, and the entire armed citizenry. Yep, that’s a brilliant plan, right next to my plan to score with hot actresses and models by being really average at video games.

  335. says

    OMFG, Paul Ryan has been caught lying several times, and you would think that he would start being more careful about what he says in public. You would be wrong.

    According to The New York Times, Ryan thinks 47,806 = 1.4 million. Oh, no, wait. He can’t tell the difference between personal bankruptcy and business bankruptcy. Wait. Maybe it’s both. Hard to tell. Confusion reigns.

    …Mr. Ryan also cited bankruptcy numbers to make the point that failing businesses mean fewer jobs. “In 1980 under Jimmy Carter, 330,000 businesses filed for bankruptcy,” he said. “Last year, under President Obama’s failed leadership, 1.4 million businesses filed for bankruptcy.”

    Can I just interject here, what the fuck is up with the Republicans and Jimmy Carter? Romney mentioned him in his convention speech. Are they sure Jimmy Carter won’t fight back?

    And under Carter we were not facing financial devastation, so how does that compare to the Obama administration? Even if Ryan could get the statistics right, the comparison would not be apt.

    But he appeared to conflate business bankruptcies and much more numerous personal bankruptcies. Of the 331,264 bankruptcies in 1980, only 43,694 were for businesses, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute.

    Of the 1,410,653 total bankruptcy filings last year, 47,806 were business bankruptcies, according to the institute. And, again, the numbers are falling. In 2009, there were 60,837 business bankruptcies. In July, the latest month with complete statistics, business bankruptcies were 22 percent lower than a year earlier, and personal bankruptcies were down 11 percent.

  336. says

    Rev. Big Dumb Chimp @483: LOL.

    Good point. I have a nephew who is a phenomenal marksman, one of those guys who can bullseye a target half a mile away, but even he couldn’t hit 174,000 out of 174,000.

    Of course, you realize that this is a Republican argument for exceptional efficiency on the part of our government. No waste.

  337. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Of course, you realize that this is a Republican argument for exceptional efficiency on the part of our government. No waste.

    Of course the government is BAD, except when it isn’t.

  338. chigau (違わない) says

    If I say “Rebecca Watson” three times while looking in a mirror, what happens?

  339. says

    Stay classy, Republicans. Haley Barbour, former Governor of Mississippi, took things further than Clint Eastwood.

    Barbour offered a brief assessment of the Republican National Convention. “While I would love for [Chris] Christie to put a hot poker to Obama’s butt,” said Barbour of the RNC keynote speaker, “I thought he did what he was supposed to do.”

    Link, BoombergBusinessweek.

  340. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    SpokesGay! I want the recipe for how you cooked that fish. Because OMNOMNOMNOMNOM.

    Also: poor Morgan was cooped up in her crate for hours while I drove. She was meowing most pitifully.

    Unrelated: WHAT.

  341. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Fish Fry:

    1.5 lbs white fish

    1.5 cups flour

    black pepper

    salt

    Buttermilk (or yogurt thinned to the consistency of buttermilk)

    Old Bay seasoning

    Mix dry ingredients. Add about a tablespoon of Old Bay to the buttermilk. Cut the white fish into cutlets about an inch thick (thinner pieces get too dry as they cook too fast). Dip in buttermilk and shake off excess. Dredge in flour mixture to coat really well, shake off excess.

    Allow to air dry in the refrigerator for at least a half hour before frying. This is the key to getting a crisp coating that adheres to the fish and doesn’t flake off.

    Heat several inches of veg. oil to proper frying temperature (about 360 F). Fry fish three pieces at a time, turning once until golden brown. Remove and drain on paper towels, keep warm in oven while frying remaining fish.

  342. portia says

    I’ve been out for a few days but I think I’m mostly caught on Lounge-happenings. Rough weekend, but I’m back in the swing of things. Hope everyone in the U.S. had an enjoyable holiday.

    Giliell

    Oh, I didn’t think you did.
    But I’m critical about the awe. I went through both births without an epidural because my kids didn’t give me any time for one. I spent more time in the delivery ward after birth (dunno about the States, here they keep you for about an hour to have you still close under watch and next to frightening machinery and serious drugs just in case) than during, but I really don’t put any value to that. If that’s the way a woman wants to go, that’s fine by me, but there’s just no value to it.
    Couldn’t say that Pitocin increased the pain. The little one went much smoother than #1 with only minimal tearing.

    Fair statement. Regarding the pitocin: it makes contractions stronger than oxytocin does, so it usually makes them more painful (as it did in my sister’s case). I know there are situations where it is necessary, but I believe it’s overused.

    Oh, no argument on that. Although the idea of giving all women one does stem from the hypothesis that it would do women good by preventing incontinence. And I very well believe that doctors are very reluctant to believe the new evidence when that means that
    A) they did a totally unnecessary intervention to countless women
    B) if presumably made their lives easier before
    Of course I don’t know your friend’s case, but I’m not sure I would qualify “not accepting the new evidence” as lying.

    I didn’t know it was to prevent incontinence. I knew it was theoretically to prevent larger tears, but is not (always) the best method of preventing them. By lied to me, I don’t mean the doctor misled anyone about the effects of the episiotomy. I meant the doctor said she was going to do one thing, obtained consent, then did another, against the earlier explicitly expressed wishes of my friend. All that aside, I wish doctors (well, people generally) would accept new evidence more readily. It seems like their responsibility to do so it higher than the general public.

    Menyambal — Sambal’s Little Helper

    they need to keep in mind that it may be their two-thousandth observation of a birth, but it is her giving birth, and it certainly isn’t a routine for her.

    You hit the nail on the head. This attitude of “there, there dear, your wishes for your birth experiences are so very cute.” drives me BONKERS.

    Socio-Gen

    I have done ALL the homework and READ ALL THE THINGS!

    I think I could have honestly said this maybe once during my academic career. Way to go : )

    Now I have a question for the Horde. I was discussing the concept of prejudice with a Ph.D.-having acquaintance, I can’t recall her specialty but it’s a biology-related field. She was telling me that prejudice is “inescapable” because we form neural pathways in our brains about people. It sounded a lot like biological determinism and some evo-psych to boot. I am not biology-savvy enough to evaluate her claims myself, can anyone help? I’m skeptical of her claims because she also told me that while she is “pro-choice” she thinks that women should be required to “learn the consequences” before they have an abortion, and at least know the stages of pregnancy before they terminate. (She let slip that “if they want to be murderers after that, then fine!”) The conversation culminated in her screaming in my face “I HAD AN ABORTION” …I didn’t quite know what to do so I backed off the topic and apologized for pushing her buttons unintentionally or minimizing what for her was a negative experience. Anyhoo…back to the point of this: neural pathways: justification for racism, or really something that’s really etched into our brains? Or some alternative?