Episode CCCLIII: Soothing
I’m really tired this afternoon, and need a nap. Maybe a lullaby will help.
(If you don’t already know this song, AAAAAH! Trigger Warning!)
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
I’m really tired this afternoon, and need a nap. Maybe a lullaby will help.
(If you don’t already know this song, AAAAAH! Trigger Warning!)
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
Chimpie, I dunno. No links either.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
July 25th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
This is what happens when you start a wild fermented sourdough starter in my kitchen. This is after 1 day.
I’m guessing the wild yeast population is something special in my house.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
July 25th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
That’s strange Josh
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
From the last thread:
QFT. Your body’s gonna do what it’s gonna do. No sense in adding extra stress and pressure by expecting a particular quirk to take place on cue.
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Rev, I’m jealous! My sourdough never gets that active. I assume it’s a matter of the temperature not being quite right, because I’ve adjusted the feeding every which way I can. It’ll rise and make bread just fine, but it’s slow.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Sorry to do this, but I can only think to test a few words to see what’s trigger the spam-hammer:
‘splainin’
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Chick
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Nope, not that either.
faggots
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
As a teen, I had a friend whose older brother would spend hundreds of dollars on CDs, and we’d spend hours making mixed tapes. Since I’m, well, me, my favourite mixed CD was 80 minutes of The Cure on one side, and Depeche Mode (shut up, Chas) on the other. I shared a car with my mother, and I’d play the tape over and over again whenever I drove, continuously, for at least five years.
Sometimes I wish I could go back to that time, just driving, late at night, in the summer air, singing my lungs out.
Twenty years later, I can still remember the song that came right after “Lullaby”: “2 Late”.
Tempolash!
cicely:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Attack of the Portcullis!
Re-try:
I’ve been examining my *stomach lurch* reflex, up-Thread a bit. Worrying that it might seem as if I was ignoring the horror of the assault itself, focusing inappropriately on something so much less…and I think I’ve worked out the process behind it.
I can comprehend someone walking into such a situation, freezing in astonished horror, fleeing in a panic, castigating themselves later that they didn’t stop it. I’d like to think that I would intervene; or at the very least (and it is a very least indeed), having fled (in shame at not having intervened immediately), called the police, the local Scouting authorities, someone.
I cannot understand someone walking into it, apologizing (“Oops! So sorry to embarrass you in mid-rape, old man! Carry on!”), laughing (laughing!!! There’s humor in this, somewhere????), and then left to do nothing…at…all.
*lurch*
-
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
And seriously–straight dudes (see note below) Shut your mouths about tactics queers use to get by, survive, fight and reform. Shut. Your. Pie. Holes.
You get to opine on this stuff once you’ve put in the work of
befriending and listening to queers, women (or take-your-pick)instead of ‘splainin’ to them. Which is always, really, just an example of you vocalizing your discomfort and externalizing it into an Uncontroversial Fact of Objective and Rational Strategy.
Basically if you’re not PZ, Brownian, Tis, Louis, Ogvorbis, Chimpie, MrFire(sorry if I forgot anyone), then you infest Enterprise and Vee-Ger does not want you to disclose the information. Sit in the corner quietly with the other ugly-bags-of-mostly-water.
(Note)-Notice I don’t include women here. If they’re problematic, they usually reserve their douche-ness for Chill Girl antics leaving us faggots relatively safe from Chill Chick-Splainin’.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
And seriously–straight dudes (see note below) Shut your mouths about tactics queers use to get by, survive, fight and reform. Shut. Your. Pie. Holes.
You get to opine on this stuff once you’ve put in the work of
befriending and listening to queers, women (or take-your-pick)instead of ‘splainin’ to them. Which is always, really, just an example of you vocalizing your discomfort and externalizing it into an Uncontroversial Fact of Objective and Rational Strategy.
Basically if you’re not PZ, Brownian, Tis, Louis, Ogvorbis, Chimpie, MrFire(sorry if I forgot anyone), then you infest Enterprise and Vee-Ger does not want you to disclose the information. Sit in the corner quietly with the other ugly-bags-of-mostly-water.
(Note)-Notice I don’t include women here. If they’re problematic, they usually reserve their douche-ness for chill girl antics leaving us faggots relatively safe from chill girl chick ‘splainin.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
I am utterly baffled. Nothing that I change in my comment can make it past the spam filter. There are no links. There are no mentions of anyone who’s been banned. The only string of ‘nyms I use is PZ, Brownian, Tis, Louis, Ogvorbis, Chimpie, MrFire.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
One part at a time, then, to isolate:
I. And seriously–straight dudes (see note below) Shut your mouths about tactics queers use to get by, survive, fight and reform. Shut. Your. Pie. Holes.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
II.You get to opine on this stuff once you’ve put in the work of
befriending and listening to queers, women (or take-your-pick)instead of ‘splainin’ to them. Which is always, really, just an example of you vocalizing your discomfort and externalizing it into an Uncontroversial Fact of Objective and Rational Strategy.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
III.Basically if you’re not PZ, Brownian, Tis, Louis, Ogvorbis, Chimpie, MrFire(sorry if I forgot anyone), then you infest Enterprise and Vee-Ger does not want you to disclose the information. Sit in the corner quietly with the other ugly-bags-of-mostly-water.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
IV. (Note)-Notice I don’t include women here. If they’re problematic, they usually reserve their douche-ness for chill girl antics leaving us faggots relatively safe from chill girl chick ‘splainin.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
IV.(Note)-Notice I don’t include women here. If they’re problematic, they usually reserve their doosh-ness for chill girl antics leaving us faggots relatively safe from chill girl chick ‘splainin.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Wait. The word douche is what set the filter off?
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Or was it douche-itude?
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
Oh crap. I made a right mess. Most humble apologies, PZ. I figured you never had time to go through the moderation queue so I tried to help myself. I didn’t mean to make up extra work for you.
David Marjanović:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
…As far as I can see, he only thinks these are both problems, and they’re unrelated to each other, and one is not an excuse for the other, and are as bad as harrassment:
Still doesn’t explain how he tells “poaching” women from actual geeks who happen to be female and hot (he says explicitly that such strange beasts exist, some are even his friends and probably allowed to use his bathroom).
However, it’s clear that he feels they’re bullying him.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
yeah I’ve now moved it to a larger wider container so that I can leave my house without fear of coming home to the sourdough starter that ate Charleston.
Plus my dog would just try to eat it.
Going to keep feeding this bad boy for a few weeks so it gets really sour before I bake with it.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Was that everything before Josh?
maybe it didn’t like the Numbered formatting?
Beatrice:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
cicely,
Yeah, that part struck me hard too. I kept rereading it in hope that I had misunderstood and that those hikers didn’t actually witness child rape and ignore it (laughing and apologizing for the interruption?!).
Ugh.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
Wait, what? Who is speaking this line, and where did it come from?
I’m confused.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Good evening
Perfect moment today
Sitting in the shade of a big tree, listening to Lana del Rey “Video Games”, watching the kids run in the soft evening sun over green lawns.
#1 really looked like a bad stereotype out of a high-gloss magazine: the hair tied loosely in a bun, wearing a long ruffled dress (actually too long, Idress, I bought it cheap last fall when they cleared the summer stuff and it’s still 2 sizes too big), white with a vintage rose print. Too pretty.
I think the problem is twofold:
1) pregnancy and childbirth are inherently dangerous. It’s only because of those evil gynaecologists that we were allowed to forget about it.
2)People don’t understand risk and probability.
The overall risk of neonatal death and intrapartum stillbirth are very, very low in Europe and Northern America (6-8/1000 for neonatal death, 3-4/1000 for intrapartum stillbirth)
Which means that an increased risk of 100% means you’re still at an overall low risk.
The problem is that it doesn’t help you if you’re one of those whose baby died during or shortly after birth and who wouldn’t have died in a hospital.
The big British “birthplace study” which compared the outcome depending on where a woman intended to give birth came to the conclusion that the risk was only almost comparable in women who had an uncomplicated low risk pregnancy AND had already given birth without any complications. Which is a fucking small amount of women.
Amy Tuteur’s personality has zilch to do with the facts and data which just doesn’t support the homebirth movement. To claim that it’s “safe” just isn’t true, telling that to women is to lie.
So, she picked her fight there to claim that she doesn’t care because she doesn’t do something different is just dishonest.
re: birth rape
That’s a fucking disgusting term.
Yes, birth can be a traumatic experience. Because it can turn fucking bad fucking quickly. Then to accuse the people who just tried their best to make sure that woman and child survived of having maliciously and for selfish reasons commited a horrible crime is disgusting.
That doesn’t mean that there aren’t assholes out there, and that we don’t still have a long way to go, but that’s way over the line.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
wtf
That was something I typed out then though better because of the seriousness of your message. But I didn’t post it?
wtf
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
Josh, Mr. Fire is bi.
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Giliell, my hospital birth gave me PTSD. I don’t describe it as birth rape but I wish people would not be dismissive of the term. Birth is an intimate experience for many people, not least because it involves our genitals, and YES some of the violating and abusive experiences women have gone through can absolutely be comparable to rape. It is not about, as someone else also trivialized it, not having our permission verbally asked every time someone touches our hoohas. It’s about being deliberately, cruelly and institutionally victimized in ways some women process as sexual.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
#28 was in response to #26 if that wasn’t clear
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Chimpie:
Both our fingers are full of fail. And don’t worry—I always mix the serious and the silly (note the Star Trek references).
Caine:
I’m so stoop-id. Of course he is. And I would have got away with him too if it hadn’t been for that meddling Mrs. Fire.
Louis:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Caine,
All the best people are. It’s a superpower.
I AM NOT IN ANYWAY BIASED!!!!!!!!!
;-)
Louis
P.S. Also people called “Louis” are a) better than everyone and b) remarkably good in bed. Just, you know, sayin’.
P.P.S. And always right about everything.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Ahhhh
Took me a minute, i didn’t even see where I posted it. Now I see it in those block quotes up there.
I was REALLY confused there for a second.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Go to Skepchick NOW and read something that will make you feel so much better (really). Male leaders speaking out against misogyny and calling for anonymous haters to be outed:
http://skepchick.org/2012/07/speaking-out-against-hate-directed-at-women-dale-mcgowan/
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Gah!
Hate those days when the weather and my mood sync up. There’s no reason for me to feel hummed and yet I do. Stoopid brain.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Instead of a lullaby, hows about another cover of Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)?
cicely:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Anybody else having trouble following Josh’s link?
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
David:
It’s spread out a bit, but he does draw a connection. I’ll cut out a bit of the extraneous material to show where I got my impression:
To my eyes, that seems to be saying that women he has decided are not geeks are responsible for anger towards women in geeky spaces. If it was more along the lines of the objectification of “booth babes” creating a culture where objectification of all women is acceptable, I’d agree with him on at least that aspect, but his emphasis is on the women themselves, by labeling them as “poachers.”
tyrannical:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Oh,a just for fun post.
Excellent song by a very underrated band. Not a fan of the makeup, but I suppose that is artistic license.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Part of my ceiling fell in.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
I am loving the Bane Capital twitter feed.
Especially this.
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Crap, Cipher!
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
tyrannical:
No, this is TET (The Endless Thread), our lounge. Open thread.
cicely:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
O.O
-
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Cipher:
Oh noes!
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Cipher:
Oh crap. We had that happen last winter. Not fun.
Ogvorbis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
I don’t understand it either. But it is one of those clear as a bell memories that I’ll never get rid of. It was mom, dad (well, I presume mom and dad) and two girls aged about 10 and 12. Mom apologized. The girls and dad laughed. It was off the scale on the weird-shit-o-meter.
Beatrice:
Again, no idea the how or why.
Weed Monkey:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Audley, wow! That Eurythmics cover is awesome. And the video too.
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
And your trolling won’t be tolerated here. You won’t be tolerated here.
You are welcome in the TZT threads. You are not welcome here.
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
How Beautiful You Are
Meathook
Push
Jumping Someone Else’s Train
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
Brownian:
The nym isn’t familiar to me. What am I missing?
Louis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Cipher,
BUMMER! I’d send USB beer, but would USB plaster and Polyfiller be better?
HEADS UP THOSE WHO HAVEN’T NOTICED ALREADY:
Tyrannical is a really obvious troll. It’s repeating pointless tripe about evolutionary biology meaning Teh Ghey&trae; is An Disease and how men throwing themselves in front of women (a la Aurora shooting) is misogynistic.
Approach with comedy and/or derision as appropriate. This is a Band G troll, pointless with a side order of mild odiousness.
Louis
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
I am having a fucking awesome day.
Got a call from the doc. The test results.
It is official. Five years cancer-free.
(Well, four years, 10 months. But that’s a rounding error).
!!!!!
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
Not much. (Trigger warning for homophobia and stupidity. Also, tyrannical needs to read a book on evolution.)
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
Nevermind, I just saw one of its “contributions” to a thread. Ugh.
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
Awesome, Esteleth! Cheers to continuing to kick cancer’s ass!
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
I have linked to this a couple of times before but, damn, this is one of the funniest covers ever!
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
Congrats, Esteleth! That’s outstanding! I’m'a go get drunk on your behalf.
[Leaves.]
.
.
.
.
.
[Returns, out of breath.]
Oh, fuck, I’m still at work!
Still, congrats!
Ogvorbis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Esteleth:
Fandamntastic!
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Yeah, okay…bleargh, feeling like a shower would be a good idea right about now.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
E,
*CONFETTI! AND ICE CREAM!*
Beatrice:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Ogvorbis,
Well, I sort of a little bit wish those people got lost in the woods and eaten by a bear. In fact, that is just about the only excuse I would consider valid for not calling the police the moment they had a chance.
My family always did their best to teach me not the interfere. No matter what I hear or see, it’s none of my business and it’s not my problem. (yeah, nice lessons) And I fear a lot of people have the same policy, but I would hope… I would hope those were just words, but if they ever actually were in a position to help, that they would.
*misanthropy rising*
Sorry, I’m dragging this further than necessary. I’ll stop now.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Weed Monkey:
I love well done covers of pop songs, especially when they cross genres. :)
mythbri:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
@Esteleth
Congratulations!
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
Brownian, that reminds me of when Laura Schlessinger got her TV show back in 2000. One group I was with latched on to one of her statements, that homosexuals are a biological mistake and made a shirt that we wore at a protest at CBS 2′s studio in Chicago.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
kristinc
I believe you.
I never doubted that birth can give women PTSD. I know a few really bad stories, and I was very fortunate in my pregnacies that everything went well and the only assholes I encountered were really not responsible people during my births.
But I think that a distinction must be made and that not every traumatic birth experience is because some evil OB/gyn victimized a woman.
And I think that a great many women actually ruin their births themselves by buying into the naturallistic fallacy and and believing that their birth experience has to be XY and Z.
I think we both know that births can’t be planned unless you plan a c-section anyway.
Oh, I had planned. I had planned well. With music and stuff! I so much wanted to give birth standing up! You know, do the real womanly woman thing, like our great-great-grandmothers who gave birth in the field, hey, they did it (hmmm, no music there…). And the milk would flow like god himself fed his people in the dessert.
Fortunately, although I was stupid enough to buy into that shit, I was clever enough not to let it get me at least for the birth. What it did to me for the breastfeeding is a different story.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Congrats, Esteleth. ♥
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
She’s such an idiot.
It’s this kind of bullshit that flies in the face of whatsizname, the fellow who was saying that he could talk for days and never have evolution come up. PZ wrote about him.
Ogvorbis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
No bear on the south rim of the Grand Canyon. There were mountain lions, though. Good kitty.
No, no. Don’t apologize (where have I read that before?). I remember the incident clear as a bell. I even remember what they were wearing. But it never, until you and cicely took note of it, I had not realize how utterly unreal that was. If I walked into a campsite in a National Forest (well, anywhere!) and saw a middle aged man recieving oral sex from a ten year old in a scout uniform (well, the clothes wouldn’t matter, but this is what they saw) there would have been serious intervention.
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
On more serious topics, tyrannical has shown themselves to be a sever idiot. Hardly surprising that tyrannical would think that The Cure, one of the most popular acts of the eighties and nineties, is under appreciated.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Ogvorbis:
It’s a reason none of us can ever stop educating. Ever. Your story reminds me of the cops who bought the ‘domestic argument’ story from Dahmer when his 14 year old victim escaped, crying and naked, onto to the street. They handed the kid back to Dahmer.
People just don’t stop to fucking think most of the time and that’s why they need the crap educated out of them, so that they will think and will do what’s right.
Louis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Esteleth,
WOOT!
BEER! (I seem to be saying that a lot today for various reasons.)
Louis
cicely:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
Huzzah! *confetti&champagne*
-
tyrannical:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Louis
I’ve no need to troll. I just have to state what I honestly believe is to be true, or at least worth considering to be true.
Beatrice:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
Just once more, I’m so sorry you had to go through all that.
And what Caine said.
And I’m also cheering for any mountain lion that might have decided to snack on any of that family. Good kitty.
Ogvorbis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
tyrannical:
Get out of this thread. Seriously. You are not welcome here.
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
It is so fucking kind of you, tyrannical, to inform me that I really should not live, that I am some mistake.
Just telling you what I think is the truth.
Ogvorbis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
I’d've cheered more if the mountain lion had eaten the scout leader. The family that happened on it were bystanders. I have seen enough shit go down to understand the extreme reluctance for a bystander to step in and become involved. So part of me understands. Part of me is confused. Part of me is angry.
dianne:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
But I think that a distinction must be made and that not every traumatic birth experience is because some evil OB/gyn victimized a woman.
Yep. Birth is or at least can be nasty, even if everyone does everything right. I have no criticism of the hospital I gave birth in or the personnel there. But labor frigging hurt! If you’ve ever had a cramp in your muscle after running too fast, it felt a bit like that…only all over my back and abdomen, for several hours on end. And accompanied by nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, and high fevers (though really the high fever only came towards the end…I didn’t go over 103 until about the time they were prepping me for c-section.) Everyone reacted appropriately, was very sympathetic, and offered appropriate pain relief and good advice on how to proceed as events turned bad. I got out with a healthy baby and a well behaved scar.
Five years later I considered working at this same hospital. I was able to go into the hospital without problems, talk to the relevant person, and find that I wasn’t what they wanted and they weren’t what I wanted. It wasn’t until I left that I realized that I was shaking with relief that I’d never have to go back in there again.
Being in an uncontrollable, painful situation is traumatic, no matter what. People being assholes or worse to you makes everything worse, but to some extent there’s just no way to make some births non-traumatic.
Doug Hudson:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
I’m so adverse to confrontation, that I honestly don’t know what I’d do if I saw child abuse. I would call the police, certainly, but would I intervene directly? I don’t know. I’d like to think so…assuming that direct intervention didn’t expose the child to greater harm…
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Cipher, you OK?
Esteleth: Congratulations. :)
Caine:
It wasn’t just that he was 14 years old, either. He was Vietnamese and poor. Dahmer was white and middle class.
Tyrannical:
And Flat Earthers believe you can sail over the edge of the world. Back up your citations with something you didn’t pull out of your ass or fuck off. Actually, fuck off anyway, this is our lounge and you’re pissing in the beer pitcher.
tyrannical:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Ogvorbis
This thread? But I liked the song, or was this just some type of poe thread. I’m new here, so cut me a little slack just because we disagree.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Horde, please help. Please express yourselves at Mano Singham’s. I literally cannot believe what I’m reading:
Mano:
Me:
How many more clueless fucking bastard straight doods wanna out themselves around here? Bring it.
Louis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Sure, Tyrannical, whatever you say. Go here, you are stinking up our lounge and are clearly not wanted. Did your mother not teach you sufficient manners to not go where you aren’t wanted?
Louis
Doug Hudson:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Just out of curiosity, why would someone use the nick “tyrannical”? I mean, that’s not generally an admired trait. In fact, it sounds like some kind of Sith Lord. Oh wait, it was a Sith Lord, wasn’t it? Darth Tyrannus?
We got a Sith Lord here, folks!
Beatrice:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Of course.
(sorry)
It’s a weird “who should be eaten by a
bearmountain lion” tangent I’ve gone on anyway.Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
The worst response I’ve seen thrown at women who complain about abusive OBs is, “You survived, right? Your baby is alive? Then SHUT UP.”
Because the point is waaaaaay over there.
I read an article examining the fact that more women are being diagnosed with birth-related PTSD than ever before. Author concluded:
1) Until recently a woman presenting symptoms of PTSD would not have been diagnosed, especially if her birth experience was held to be the cause.
2) Women are surviving birth experiences that would killed them even ten years ago.
That latter point was cited as the biggie. Near-death experiences (not the “seeing the light” woo, the experience of almost dying and then living with the knowledge of how close you got) are inherently traumatic.
___
Thanks for the congrats everyone!
As I said, this is 4 years 10 months.
Which means: September 22. Party. My place.
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
You are new here so I will let you know this, tyrannical. There are a lot of gay men, lesbians, bisexual and trangendered people here. None of them will take kindly to you informing us that we are mistakes and will not be around once some “tidying up” occures. And want to know something else, a lot of the straight people will not be kind to you either.
I will not fucking cut you any slack, assclam.
Ogvorbis:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
You show up spewing homophobic propaganda and you want me to cut you slack? Fuck off and leave this thread.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
I realize this is presumptuous, but if you can do battle with only one piece of homophobia at a time, please consider my #84. I’m much more upset that an FtB blogger is compared a gay kiss-in to Fred Phelps than I am about that idiot Tyrannical.
Sorry. Very worked up.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
You will not be trolling your shit in this thread. Get the fuck out, you slimed out enema bag.
PZ, please quarantine this “tyrannical” pos. Thank you.
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
tyrannical, we are cutting you some slack, by telling you which threads you arent welcome on. This one is a lounge. We try our best not to argue here (since I’m a terrible person who thrives on rage and malevolence, I limit my time here.)
You’ve been asked to leave this thread multiple times now. Are you new to English?
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Josh, there are a lot of people here. Different people can do different tasks.
cicely:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Still more introspection: in the abovementioned situation, I also immediately flash to how it would be for the victim of the abuse…seeing possible help right there, only to have it cruelly taken away, leaving no hope for relief.
*lurch*
Glurg.
Okay, I think I’m gonna take my brain off the hook for a bit.
-
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
Josh – I simply quoted the phrase about the WBC back at Mano and added “ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME.”
If other people want to argue the point with him, they can, but I consider that comparison so offensively stupid as to deserve nothing but straight-up mockery.
Ogvorbis:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
I think that by that point I had decided that this was my fault, so the idea of help was outside my box.
Doug Hudson:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
That Mano Singham post is truly, ridiculously offensive.
My post there is awaiting moderation, so just in case it disappears into the ether:
Comparing anyone to the Westboro douchebags is offensive.
Comparing gays to the Westboro Baptists? You are aware that the Westboro Baptists advocate killing all gays, right? That they want to see every single gay person dead and burning in hell for all eternity?
THAT is the flipside of a gay kiss-in?
Might want to rethink that one.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Thanks Daisy.
He clearly has no fucking idea (or empathy) how stupid that is or he wouldn’t have said it. I despair to see educated, supposedly liberal people who are such blatant supporters of the status quo. There’s no getting away from it. Everywhere I turn some fucking dood who I think is an ally actually fucking helps keep me and queers down.
I can’t stand it.
Doug Hudson:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
On a related note, though, my distaste for Chick-fil-a’s policies wars against my addiction to their Polynesian sauce and their breakfast mini-sandwiches.
Oh, why does evil need to be so tasty?
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Jebus, Oggie.
I’m so sorry. For everything. Including the fact I only just now read your posts. :( :( :(
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
No thanks are necessary. I consider it a “basic human decency” thing.
You bolded the wrong word.
They are liberals. As in “Love Me, I’m A.” Versus progressives. They’re cool with you having your rights, so long as you’re not uncouth and tacky about pursuing them. You need to act like a
upper-middle-class white suburbanrespectable member of society. Go put on a Dolce e Gabbana suit and ask the hets nicely for your rights, like Joe Salomonese.Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
…And I didn’t even bold the right word.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
Well it’s a good goddamn thing I became a Suburban White Lady Homeowner in the past two years, Daisy. Oh, wait-it didn’t help.
Beatrice:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Esteleth,
Congrats of showing that cancer who’s the boss.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
Yeah, but you still smoke (sort of), you don’t speak in the soporific tones of an NPR announcer, and you’re needlessly confrontational in a way that upsets nice Unitarian types making six figures a year.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
Cipher:
Ouch.
Josh: Yes, I don’t really follow most of the rest of FTB now. Mano’s doing WTF.
mouthyb:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
Thank you, Pterryx and David and anyone I might have forgotten to mention. I try not to break down often, but the social media and the victim being reprimanded for trying to talk about the experience really got to me, especially the trolls who were talking about how ‘immature’ it was for the victim to talk about her abusers. I’ve been through several nasty moments, most of which were followed by admonitions and/or threats about talking about it afterward, sometimes from people completely unrelated to the problem, who thought it was a confession of weakness/unfitness/slutty evil that I tried to say something had happened.
Pterryx: The reference library and time to tinker on computers/do research/produce papers instead of working two or three jobs would be peachy. The assumption of competence, instead of the same tired assumptions about who does my homework or writes my papers, etc, is the best part of that. (And yes, at 34, I’m STILL being asked who does my homework on occasion.)
Sili:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
I hope I never have to find out.
Sadly, I say that more for my own sake, because I’m afraid of the answer, than for the sake of the victim (i.e. I hope there are not enough children being abused that I’ll ever run into one).
That said, I should learn the signs of abuse, even if I find it in flagrante, since I’m now working with kids for a living.
Doug Hudson:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
Sili, 109:
EXACTLY! I almost wrote that I hope I never have to find out, but I wasn’t sure how to explain what I meant.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Awesome, left0ver1under thinks they’re helping by spewing fat hatred, then calling Josh for objecting. Fuckwit. And not for the first time, either.
mouthyb:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Josh: I have no idea why a kiss-in would be anything like the Phelps. That makes no fucking sense.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa):
July 25th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
mouthyb: I guess seeing icky gay kissing is just as distressing and traumatic as having the funeral of a loved one interrupted by a bunch of sign-waving fundamentalist bigots?
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Minor quibble: No, I don’t. I vape. Why do I care? Because there’s an effort culturally to equate the two and pretend the health damage is the same, and if I were stronger I’d quit nicotine altogether. . .blah blah. Not a big deal. Just sayin’:)
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Esteleth
Oh, I absolutely second that.
It’s the idiotic assumption that our psyche is worthless, I mean, who cares about us as people when we function as bodies?
Congratulations again. My MIL will have the 5 years up next summer. Yay!
Josh
Will be right over there
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
Which is bullshit, utter and total bullshit, without scientific evidence to back up your inane and fuckwitted blather. So, you admit you are a liar and bullshitter, that is a troll, since you can’t/won’t back up your claims with evidence. And you OPINION is not evidence, nor will it ever be so here.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Here’s the email I’m going to send off to my asshole sister:
Taking bets on asshole sister’s reaction! She’s either going to: realize that her criticisms are pretty much worthless (best outcome) or completely ignore the email (good outcome) or she’ll get all whiney that I don’t appreciate her “help” and I become the bad guy yet again (bad outcome).
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Argh, argh, argh, I greedily devoured quarter of a watermelon out of the fridge and now my teeth hurt from the cold.
feralboy12:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
Congrats, Esteleth.
I had the experience a couple of years ago of having a doctor tell me I didn’t have cancer. I had this big ugly lump on my nose that required a biopsy. Not only was it not malignant, taking the chunk out for the biopsy stopped it from growing and started it going away entirely.
Well, except I now have another little scar on my nose to go with the one I got in 1982 when I broke it. Oh, and the scar on my knee from the bicycle crash I had on the way to the biopsy. But hey, if you’re going to crash your bike and rip a chunk of flesh out of your knee, you can do worse than to have that crash on the way to the dermatologist. They debrided it for free.
The downside was that the doctor had to spell out D-E-B-R-I-D-E to her assistant, and I spent the rest of the day dealing with a mutant Tammy Wynette earworm.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
A needlessly provocative act of tooth-on-fruit terrorism!
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Audley: whiney.
Sili:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Arrrgh!!
Bad Memebase! Whom”s don’t work that way.
And you obviously are too stupid to spend even 5 seconds on Google to find out what a plumpudding is.
Razzle-frazzle!
(And I can’t get comments to load, so I can flaunt my superior α-geekdom.)
Sili:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Ooo, Audley, you evil genius. Pinning it on “whoever is feeding [her] that information” gives her the perfect face-saving out, because you’re assuming she’s not the idiot, but someone else is.
Oggie, I don’t know what to say. I’m so glad that you feel better knowing everything that happened. No idea about that family, unless somehow from their vantage point they didn’t understand what was going on, or you looked much older from the glimpse they got of you, or what the hell.
Cipher, augh!
Yay Esteleth!
Hugs to everyone else who may need them. I’m trying to keep up and missing things, I know.
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Fuck, I feel funny. Josh, Brownian, Miss Daisy Cutter, Beatrice and others were pointing out just how wrong Mano is. But it was my one statement there that got him to rethink how wrong it is to compare a LGBT kiss in to the fucking Phelps Klan? What is wrong here?
Plus, yet an other fine example of humanity felt the need to point out how hysterical and bullying FTB is.
*spits venom*
Beatrice:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
I’ve been gorging myself with ice cold watermelon since last week (not every day, but nearly).
My teeth ached too.
It was so worth it.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
Josh:
That’s were my money is, too. I’ll get the whiney response with a healthy dose of thrown in for good measure.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Also, emergency comfort eating: choco-hoto-pots. I have made them and they are good. You can substitute regular sugar or powdered sugar for the superfine and it’s ok. Also I have cooked it in the microwave but I forget how long it took. What’s nice is since it’s semisweet chocolate, you can substitute a chocolate bar and it still works.
Sili:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Huh. How did that happen? (On the other hand, that’s probably the most representative post I’ve ever made.)
–o–
I still feel bad for caring more about myself, and it’s friggin’ insensitive of my to make this all about me.
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Giliell, I respect you and I think you’re a good person, which is why I’m telling you that this is hurtful, victim-blaming bullshit. Women who report birthrape-type experiences aren’t whining because their Yanni CD skipped any more than women reporting sexual assault are whining because their rapist didn’t know how to find the clitoris. Without exception the stories I have heard and read of birthrape were assaults being done on these women by people in a position of power over them during their labor. Not something that just, whoops, happened. Assaults. Abusive treatment. And abuse victims DO NOT bring abuse on themselves by planning to have an experience free of abuse!
Dianne:
See above. Painful situations can be traumatic but so can being caught in an earthquake. And being caught in an earthquake is not abuse. Women reporting birthrape have had their humanity and their agency violated at the hands of other people, not the impersonal natural force of chidbirth.
This is why I hate people saying that “the main goal of childbirth is to have a healthy baby” or similar. It feeds right into the hands of those who suggest we are cans to be opened to decant the *real* people involved.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
carlie:
:D :D :D
Thanks! I’ll send it a little later this evening– I want to make sure she’s home from work, so if she does get all snitty, at least she’ll be home.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Audley, given the excellent base you set in the email, if she gets whiny you can go right back at her with “That person is wrong, and they’re causing both you and me stress, and we both KNOW that stress is bad for pregnancies. Neither of us has the time to chase down every wacky theory about pregnancy out there, and it would stress us out the point of possibly harming the babies, so let’s each stick with what our own doctors tell us, ok?”
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Another one bites the dust. Mano Singham must be taking lessons from Paula Kirby. Interesting, also, that he will not respond to me, only to other commenters:
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Carlie,
Love it. Will do!
Ogvorbis:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
No one knows how they will react and fear of one’s own reaction is normal. I teach CPR/AED/First Aid and the single biggest obstacle to moving someone from ‘byastander’ to ‘caregiver’ is fear. This is about all of us.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Also, can I mention how much I love proving her wrong with SCIENCE!? (It may be petty, but whatevah.)
(Thanks again for the info, Matt!)
mouthyb:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
TLC: Only if the person in question has been living in a bubble.
Crossposted from that thread on Mano’s blog:
I think this is appropriate here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/timeline/stonewall/
It’s a timeline of some of the major events in LGBT rights. Most of those events involved protests, riots and police action of some kind. PBS is considerably lighter in their descriptions of violence than they could be, especially considering the casual violence and corrective rape which sometimes occurred after LGBT persons were arrested, especially if they were deemed gender deviants.
The Civil Rights movement in the US is equally full of protests, violence and homicide. I teach that in my youth and society course.
While it might seem the ‘correct’ thing to do, if one believes the correct way is the way of least confrontation, to compare what the Phelps do to a protest as incredibly mild as a kiss-in, that position is in ignorance of history.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
Funny-this dumbass homophobe I blocked on Twitter (really, really vile–talked about faggots and trannies with their sicknesses and how they will all die horrible deaths) was so fucking stupid he thought my avatar was a picture of me. Which prompted him to ask what “kind of thing” I was. I almost wanted to ring Faye Dunaway.
He then aksed if I was a man who fucked men, a man who fucked boys, a boy who. . .you get the picture. So I asked him if he was a man who fucked goats, a goat who fucked lambs, or a lamb who ate kebabs.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
New Rubin’s Ratlets pics up: http://needleprovocateur.wordpress.com/
Their eyes are open. :D
Sili:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Once more, with feeling: “Whom”s don’t work that way!
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Josh, I think that person will only fuck what he thinks Ronald Reagan believes he should fuck.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Caine, that was a needle-lessly provocative post.
OMG, the cute is unbearable. It’s impossible to explain, but I just want to pick up that pile of ratlets and stuff them in my mouth. No, I don’t want to eat them. . .I just want to nom them. Know what I mean?
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
And thank you Horde, for having my back
side.tee-hee-hee.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
Josh:
Hey, everyone else is being all provocative…
Yes, I know what you mean! So tiny, and *so* active. They are seriously motorvatin’ around. It won’t be long before they hit popcorn stage. Yikes. Rubin is bent that I put a fresh box in, just when she had the other one all nice and chewed up just so.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
ARGH NO NOW MY MOUTH FEELS SO WEIRD
dianne:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
kristinic: I apologize for not acknowledging the risk of abuse.
I know that reporting an assault is extremely difficult for a number of reasons, but if you’ve been assaulted by an OB, please at least consider reporting them to the hospital. There’s a much lower level of proof required to get a hospital interested in someone than for getting the police interested and it might end up being of some use. (If this is just too hard to do for any reason, flush the above advice.)
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:14 pm
Got official job offer. Starts on monday. Need to brush up on my culture techniques by then ^-^.
It’s an upgrade in pay too yay!
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
I do. Like what I do with my cat’s ears.
David Marjanović:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Review submitted, after I started today’s part of working on it waaaaay too late. Should have gone home long ago.
Instead, I’ll catch up!
o_O WTF. What are the building codes like in LA?
♥
“By the way, have you people noticed that Mitt is white?”
“Nick Koan @nkoan
@BaneCapital I thought he was Mexican?”
*Jadehawk’s® Totally Biodegradable Confetti®*
QFT.
So? Why do you believe it to be true? Did you even know that hetero- and bisexuality have been found in all vertebrate species that have been observed for long enough, which is now hundreds of them? Did you know that male homosexuality in humans runs in the same families as above-average female fertility? And so on…
dianne:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Well, now I had to go and look up frequency of sexual abuse by ob/gyns. Found an article that’s rather old but, not pretty. I sincerely hope things have improved since then, but seriously worried that they haven’t. Maybe it’s time to go for all chaperone all the time interactions.
Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
Just doing my part of being part of the Hivemind, Echo Chamber or what ever the fuck we are supposed to be.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
Oh, for Tony on Shakesville – I know I’m in the minority here, but I do really like that site. The commenting is very tightly regulated; where here things that are wrong get batted about until they fall to shreds, there those things just get banned and/or deleted. The purpose of the commenting isn’t so much to hone arguments or discuss variants in opinion so much as to build community around shared values. There have been a few big missteps in the past; I was on the edges of understanding what those were about (at the time they happened) and they didn’t have as much of an impact on me as they have on other people, so I understand that other people have good reasons to not be happy with it. But I get a lot out of the way Liss does analysis of issues and I don’t comment there much. Just saying YMMV.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Ing—congrats! Boy, did you deserve some good news.
Brownian—I do the same thing with my cat’s ears! They’re just so warm and soft and nommable.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Congratulations, Ing!!
MY MOUTH STILL FEELS FULL OF RATS. I need a baby’s feet to nom on or something to get that image out of my head. ;)
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Carlie,
Just lie back and think of ratlets.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
OH GREAT NOW THE PHANTOM RATS ARE ON OTHER PARTS TOO.
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
I’m packing up the girlfriend and the cat, and we’re coming over.
David Marjanović:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
All seconded.
Giliell wasn’t talking about birth rape. She was talking about the fact that “not every traumatic birth experience is because some evil OB/gyn victimized a woman” (comment 67), where “every” really means “every”.
birgerjohansson:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Article, “The Dark Side Of The Obama White House”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/obama-national-security_n_1701888.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
Two new books reveal unpleasant aspects of Obama’s security policies.
David E. Sanger: “Confront and Conceal. Obama’s Secret Wars and Surprising Use of American Power” http://www.randomhouse.com/book/202541/confront-and-conceal-by-david-e-sanger
Daniel Klaidman: “Kill or Capture: The War on Terror and the Soul of the Obama Presidency”: http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/hmh/site/hmhbooks/bookdetails?isbn=9780547547893
— — — — — — — —
Yes, I know Mittens will be even worse. :-(
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Today in “stop the world, i want to get off”:
company advertises waxing special for girls 15 and under
David Marjanović:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
My comment on Singham’s blog is through. It’s number 9.
It has not been answered, and neither have the others that ask about what’s provocative about kissing in public.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
kristinc
I’m sorry I hurt you.
I fucked up because I didn’t make clear that I was talking about different things:
A) Abusive bastards exist who exercise power over women when they are very vulnerable
B) Horrible traumatic births happen with no blame involved
C) Some women do buy into shit and have unrealistic expectations about their childbirth which makes them feel victimized and hurts them.
I was talking about group C, not A. Again, I’m not talking about the victims of assault and abuse. And I have seen that term flung around lightly. I’ve read the birth stories of “The Feminist Breeder”, an irresponsible woman who recommends washing your vagina with soap against Strep B, breech home deliveries and chiropractors for babies.
Even if I take everything that she writes for granted (I believe that the doctor’s story would be different), there were some mistakes made with he C-section, like not talking with her about pitocin and just, more or less giving it to her and not giving her an epidural as soon as she asked for it. But then she loses it and believes that it was the Pitocin that ruined everything and things like that.
I’m sometimes wondering what doctors (who also have to protect themselves and their livelyhoods) are supposed to do. What are they supposed to do when things go bad quickly, when they know that if they don’t get the baby OUT NOW within 5 minutes it will die and the woman is screaming and crying and freaking out, trying to pull the needles out of her arms?
What decision are they supposed to make? Wait until she calms down and then get her consent to remove the stillborn baby?
What we need to acknowledge is that those things happen and that they hurt and traumatize, and not deny that and tell women to STFU you’re both alive.
I think actually educating women about what can happen and what doctors will have to do in such situations might prevent a lot of harm, but that won’t happen if women are taught about a “wonderful natural process”
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
“not every traumatic birth experience is because some evil OB/gyn victimized a woman” is dismissive of birthrape-type experiences. Skeptifem didn’t bring up traumatic birth experiences in general, she brought up birthrape.
Think about it this way: what if Skeptifem had been talking about garden-variety sexual assault trauma and someone had answered “well not every traumatic experience is because some evil man victimized a woman”? The Horde would have come down on them like a load of bricks, that’s what.
Dianne, acknowledged and thank you. Considering the level of vulnerability a laboring woman often has to her attendants, it is mindboggling to me that people would fail to consider how women just might make birth choices based on their feeling of safety from abuse.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Brownian and Josh:
Mr Darkheart does the same thing!
And now my two big cats (Harley and Maggie) are both eating out of Pickles’ bowl.
Poor Pickles.
Richard Austin:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Ing:
\o/
Doug Hudson:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Ogvorbis @135, Thanks, that is comforting.
Re: Shakesville, Shakesville is a great place if you are looking for safe space. Sometimes the moderation seems over the top, but that is the price they are willing to pay to provide a safe space to as many people as possible.
Its not a great place for thrashing it out with trolls or mocking the religious–that’s what Pharyngula is for! Different sites with different purposes.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
Also:
Caine:
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
*faints from cute overload!*
Ing:
Have some scrumptious birthday cake ice cream to celebrate!
*jams into USB port!*
It might be a little melty when it gets through to your end. D:
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
Holy shit! Toni Basil’s 1983 hit “Mickey” is a cover?
WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU BEEN KEEPING FROM ME?!
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Gilell, we crossposted, and I appreciate that you’re willing to walk back and clarify. I do think, though, that conflating general traumatic-because-it’s-painful-and-exhausting births with traumatic-because-of-unneccessary-dehumanizing-treatment births helps to perpetuate the second kind of trauma.
I don’t know much about birth in Germany except IIRC that practices are slighly more liberal there (if only because no one need ever worry about the financial side of childbirth!), but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around blaming American natural birth advocates (the birthing women themselves, not business owners or professionals) for the state of the natural birth movement because those women are responding to a definite and real set of problems with hospital birth in the US. It always feels a bit like blaming the problems with TAM on the terrible women who speak out about problems with TAM.
birgerjohansson:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
dianne:
“Anyone else feel like we ought to move Audley to the Pharyngula island for the duration of her pregnancy so she can be separated from Horrorsister and her unpleasant job?”
Since summer weather has finally arrived to Sweden I recommend the “Österlen” region not far from Malmö.
They even have a megalith structure just 100 miles away, and some nice medieval cathedrals plus a castle.
— — — — —
I know Wales is originally “Cymryn” but what is the original name of Scotland? “Land” is clearly germanic, not celtic.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Josh:
Duly noted.
Thus far, I’m just reading the posts on Feminism 101. I haven’t made it up to any present day material. Nor am I reading any of the comments.
****
Cipher:
I hope you’re able to get that ceiling fixed asap (for the least amount of money possible).
****
Brownian:
I’m already bummed out for some unknown reason.
A song that triggers memories of M came on at the gym, causing me to miss him incredibly and resulting in me cutting my workout short b/c I couldn’t get it out of my mind.
Now this homophobic sack of shit comes into TET?
I really shouldn’t have clicked on the link you provided Brownian. I’m not in the mood to be told that I’m some fucked up mistake.
I’m sure as hell not in the mood for anyone to say that my best friend was a fucked up mistake.
TYRANNICAL: you are a piece of work. I hope you followed everyone’s advice and got the hell out of here. This gay man doesn’t have the slightest bit of patience today to deal with people like you.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
And are not trans, sounds like. (I’ve heard of other privilege type problems there too, but that’s just one I read about recently.)
(Note: The person referred to as xpanasonicyouthx in that article appears to be none other than Mark of MarkDoesStuff fame. :D)
Matt Penfold:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Cymru actually. The Scots Gaelic for Scotland is Alba.
Paul:
July 25th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
Just want to make sure people see this, from Greta’s blog:
Since commenters here tend to have an inclination towards intersectionality, and have made similar lists before regarding feminist issues.
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
I’m going to stop discussing birth because I don’t want to be upset or stressed or frustrated today. Not a flounce though, just notice that I’m not ignoring or angry.
Matt Penfold:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Although strictly speaking, Alba does not cover all of what is now Scotland, and does include the Isle of Man. However, it is the word used in modern Scots Gaelic to refer to Scotland.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Ing, Congratulations!
David Marjanović:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Doesn’t that just mean Great Britain (the entire island)?
Anyway… “original”… Gaelic arrived in western Scotland around the same time as Old English arrived in southern Scotland.
David Marjanović:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
Oops, cross-posted.
Anyway, it’s still not clear what “Pictish” was: a language related to Welsh, a non-Indo-European language, or both ( = two or more languages in total). It’s practically unattested. :-(
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
A woodchuck can chuck 2 cords of wood and rosebud was a sled
Matt Penfold:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
Not in Scots Gaelic, although it might well do in other languages.
Matt Penfold:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
In Welsh, Scotland is Alban, in Manx, Nalibin, and in Irish Gaelic, it also Alba. I have no idea what Scotland was called in Cornish or Breton I’m afraid. Old English seems to have either used Alba or Caledonia.
Matt Penfold:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Although the word Albion does refer to the whole of Britain.
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
Holy crap this is so cool have you seen it where you equals all of you every single one because it is that cool?
http://www.zefrank.com/scribbler/scribblertoo/
I made this http://www.flickr.com/photos/28465371@N04/7646473056/in/photostream/lightbox/
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Esteleth:
:::Doing the happy dance for Esteleth:::
****
Tyrannical:
How about you go educate yourself asshat.
You honestly believe there’s something wrong with gay people? Based on what? Your experiences in life? Your precious holy book?
Huh?
By Odin, I need to puke. Thank you so much you putrid pus sack.
DISAGREE??
You little fuckwad, this isn’t a disagreement. You’re telling a bunch of people here that they’re biological mistakes. Where the hell is your biology degree?
How would you feel if someone said you’re a mistake because of your sick views? You don’t have any goddamned proof that homosexuality is a biological mistake. Do you realize you’re talking about human beings here? Do you care?
What am I saying…of course you don’t care.
Go back to the Phelps clan where you belong.
****
Josh:
I’m sorry, but I can’t do that right now. I’m in a horrible mood and that’s likely to just make it worse. Perhaps when I get off work tonight, or tomorrow.
****
Audley:
I’m going with this one, sadly.
****
Caine:
I was about to ask someone for some pics of ratlets, kittens, puppies or piglets to brighten my day and you came along with this.
I know it wasn’t for my benefit, but it helped. Thank you.
****
Ing:
Woo Hoo! Congrats!
Now it’s party time.
Party at Pensacola Beach!
****
Josh:
For the longest time, I didn’t quite get where ‘Nom, Nom’ came from (I understood what it meant). A few days ago, I was at TARGET looking through tee shirts and came across a Pac-Man shirt which had NOM NOM NOM on it (didn’t buy it though; I had to buy the Avengers Tee Shirt with the big ‘A’ on it).
****
Audley:
I do too.
At least to Kayta. Cassie doesn’t care for it and her claws are sharp.
****
Doug and everyone:
Thanks for the advice re: Shakesville.
I came across it through one of the links on the Pharyngula Wiki and liked a lot of what I’ve saw about feminism. I didn’t plan on reading any of the comments prior to hearing the advice given here, and I certainly plan on staying away from them now.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
You know, the thing is that I’m not sure it’s true. Not that there aren’t definite problems with hospital birth in the USA and elsewhere (in Germany it mostly seems to depend on which hospital/Ob/gyn/midwife you choose), but that this is what actually fuels the natural childbirth movement. Because they seem to be not women who had traumatic experiences and histories of abuse, but women who buy into the naturalistic fallacy and shun the very idea of modern medicine and deny the very fact that childbirth is fucking dangerous. Some of the stories I’ve read, stories that use the term “birth rape” are stories of traumatic births, with lots of shit happening quickly, people shouting, pushing, holding, doing, but that fall under what I called “category B”. And retrospectively the women blame it on the people involved because they just can’t believe that their birth went horribly wrong. Because it can’t be the fault of nature, so it has to be the fault of the doctor. Had xie only left her for another hour, had xie not given her Picotin.
The whole mindset of the natural birth movement is fallacious.
I consider most women who do it to be victims of fraudsters. Because those who propagate the lies just know that the data doesn’t support them the way Ken Ham knows it.
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
[Writing] “…and rosebud was a sled.” Got it.
So that’s it then? I’m all up to date?
If I learn something new after this I’ll be damn pissed, Rev.
BB’s fond of stretching out his little arms and laying one paw on an arm, hand, or face. More than once he’s tried this while lying close to my or the GF™’s head and ended up punching us in the eye.
He’s so loving. And clumsy. That’s why I like to come at him from the side with my NOMing.
dianne:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
Well this is such a fucking surprise. Expanded Medicaid=lower mortality. Such a shock!
birgerjohansson:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Cat’s entertainment: The Dark Knight Rises. A feline perspective on the latest Batman film http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/opinion/columnists/cats-entertainment-the-dark-knight-rises-2012071334323
— — — — — — —
Video. Ah yes, the good old days when you could actualy see music videos on MTV.
My favourite (in MTV Europe) was the program “Alternative Nation”.
.
So we have a Tea Party orchestra collaborating with a giant man-eating spider? Obviously an allegorical prophesy of things to come 20 years from then. Those Cure guys must have amazing powers.
— — —
Fans of Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams might like Jasper Fforde. Every year, his Brit fans have something called the Fforde Ffiesta. Or Fforde Ffair? (too late at night to recall)
dianne:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Considering the level of vulnerability a laboring woman often has to her attendants, it is mindboggling to me that people would fail to consider how women just might make birth choices based on their feeling of safety from abuse.
But will they get that from the NCB movement? I don’t have statistics, but I’ve heard stories of midwives leaving women alone during labor, refusing to take them to the hospital or even allow them to call the hospital themselves, and performing painful procedures without consent or even explanation. And you’re alone with them at a homebirth. Not a good solution, IMHO, much as I agree that there’s a problem.
dianne:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Oops. Just read kristinc’s later comment about not wanting to discuss this further for now. Sorry. I’ll shut up now.
Matt Penfold:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Here in the UK the trend is towards midwife led units, based in hospitals, so that in the majority of cases where nothing goes wrong there is no “over medicalisation”, but in cases where intervention is needed, the people and equipment are on hand.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Tony:
The red one?
I was wearing that shirt yesterday! How cool is that?
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Sorry, kristinc
Didn’t read that before posting. And my bed is calling loudly anyway.
birgerjohansson:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Addendum to 189:
“The Fforde Ffiesta.
The annual gathering for those who like to embrace absurdity” http://www.ffordeffiesta.co.uk/
portia:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
A few days ago my cousin recommended homeopathy to me…I asked her to explain to me how homeopathy works and at one point she actually said “And there’s so little of the bad stuff in the water that it doesn’t affect you…er I mean it doesn’t harm you…” Eventually she just yelled at me that I just like to debate therefore she wasn’t talking about it anymore…do you all have people like this is your life? How do you deal with it…I’m losing what little patience I ever had. At what point do you give up on the world and leave it to wallow in its ignorance?
portia:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
Congrats Ing and Esteleth :D
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Audley:
I bought the red one.
Also have the navy blue one.
****
Pet Peeve:
I hate how so many graphic shirts have logos or designs plastered all over them. I don’t mind images covering the whole front (or front and back) *sometimes*, but I see them all too often. Sometimes I want something understated. You know, a cool design in the upper corner of the shirt or along the side (I also wish so many companies didn’t feel the need to center their design on the chest. Why can’t a picture or phrase be near the waist for instance?). I wish the Avengers shirt had the ‘A’ a bit smaller too.
Matt Penfold:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
Matt Penfold:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:58 pm
The issue I have is when it is a corporate logo splashed across the front the t-shirt (Nike, Addidas etc) and they want me the pay £30 to buy it.
Sorry, if you want to walk around advertising your company on my chest, we should be discussing how much you are going to pay me for doing so!
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:58 pm
Matt:
You hit submit too soon, huh?
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 5:58 pm
potato + tailpipe
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Matt:
I can definitely understand that.
Sometimes I don’t mind it (usually it’s b/c the shirt is a cool design), but I often don’t buy products (shirts or otherwise) that prominently display the corporate logo. I like how POLO shirts have the little design off center towards the shoulder. It’s there, but not so in your face.
portia:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Brownian:
Guffaw. Thanks for that one.
Weed Monkey:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
I’m assuming this has nothing to do with motor vehicles.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 6:06 pm
Portia:
Oh my gawd, you have no freaking idea. Just last night, one of my sisters put up a facebook post about the of the electro-magnetic field from compact florescent light bulbs.
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk!*
Most of my family buys into the alt-med crap– although as far as I know, none of them have tried homeopathy, they seem to prefer herbal cures and being and crap like that.
Facebook flame wars, mostly. But, yeah, getting through to my family (who are not dumb people) is a losing battle I feel.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:06 pm
WUT? How did I not know that? “Mickey” was my first pop 45 rpm. I begged it off Jennifer, who lived upstairs with her mom Kathy. Kathy vacuumed every day at 6 in the morning, then did calisthenics. Which provoked my mother (this behavior should sound familiar) to get up, light her first cigarette, then whack on the ceiling with a broom while yelling “Jesus fuckin’ Christ lady! Can’t you keep your fat ass in bed until a reasonable hour? Jesus!”
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
Augh…
Still can’t get myself to write quizbowl. *headdesk*.
I’m too lazy to do anything this week.
jimnorman:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:36 pm
A friend, who reports she is on some sort of spiritual exploration, wants to know how a fundamentalist can reconcile a young earth with the paleo diet. I’ve already registered my two cents about the pathetic YEC perspective. I am now thinking that pitting the paleo diet against it is doubly silly. Is the paleo diet not patently ridiculous? What says Pharyngula?
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:46 pm
http://xkcd.com/966/
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:47 pm
Vanity Warning—Lousy Canuck made my Total Eclipse of the Doodz parody song a top-level post. Since it got buried in TET you all need to go over their and read and leave comments about how bloody much I rock and how you want to have my babies.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/07/25/a-song-by-josh-about-the-skeptical-sexism-wars/
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
It’s “there.”
I blame this guy Paul commenting on some other thread.
Nutmeg:
July 25th, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Caine:
Eeeee! Squinty little sleepy-looking ratties! So cute!
When my dog looks like that, we call her “smushy face”. It’s a particularly nom-able look.
**
Congrats to Ing and Esteleth!
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
HOLY CRAP YOU BLOW MY MIND.
Even moreso because I just introduced my child to “Hey Ricky” the other day (somehow he had missed it, although he’s a huge Weird Al fan) so it’s been in heavy listening rotation lately.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
Hey Ricky
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
Caine, Rubin’s ratlets are some fine looking little rodents! Such gorgeous colors on those coats, too. I love me some colorful ratties.
I just got back from seeing my eldest nephew, who is now on lithium. It was surreal. For so long now he’s been incapable of holding a conversation, thinking ahead, or showing the slightest degree of empathy. It was like seeing someone finally wake up from a long sleep. He was able to have a normal conversation and talk about reasonable plans for the future. He talked about turning down drugs a co-worker offered him. He apologized to my sister for all the things he did to her (theft, threats, and getting himself sent to in jail) and made her sob. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard him actually apologize before in a sincere manner.
I really worry about him getting off his meds. As destructive as he’s been to the family, I desperately want him to be healthy and happy.
ChasCPeterson:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
He-Man Slime Pit!
“Evil Pit of the Gruesome Ooze”
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
Hey look, here’s a news story combining my two favorite things! New Jersey and Virgin Mary sightings.
Wait, did I say “favorite”? I meant the opposite of that.
ChasCPeterson:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
hee! Here‘s the mini-comic!
(I think the 2-headed dude is Welch.)
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
Josh:
Noted. But we’re still talking classism here.
Audley:
Column B.
Also, that Virgin Mary tree…. has nobody in the crowd ever seen a suggestive knothole before?
Janine, re Mano: maybe it was just a cumulative effect? I don’t know.
Ing, congratulations.
Brownian:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
My nephew had that toy (and a pretty hefty collection of He-Man toys, given his mom’s relatively low income at the time).
It was fun.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
Josh, you know I love you, but want your baby? No. ;)
Nutmeg & Caerie, thanks on the ratlets. I think they are going to be *stunning*. Not a hoodie in the lot, either. I think one of the uber pale ones is going to have ruby eyes, like Rubin.
Caerie, I hope things work out for your nephew. Sounds like a huge change.
PZ Myers:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
#217: My kids had one of those things. It was disgusting.
They loved it.
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Thanks, it has been. All the rehab in the world wasn’t going to do a damn bit of good when he kept seeking things out to try to self-medicate. If he can have a little peace, maybe he can finally work on everything else.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
Tonight Ima make fried green tomatoes (from my own garden) and tilapia.
Doug Hudson:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Re: Shakesville and Trans*, yeah there were some unpleasant incidents, now that I think about it. Personally I think they’ve tried to address that, but then, I’m not Trans*, so my opinion doesn’t really matter.
I guess I’m just a Shakesville cultist. Hopefully that doesn’t preclude being a fan of Pharyngula as well.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
Fuck, my tomato plants have just now set flowers, and they’re looking none too good. :(
Doug – I use a different nym at Shakesville, but I’ve been a regular there for years and years. (hence the different nyms – when I first started on blogs I had a different nym for each blog, and then kind of had to stick with them even when there was some overlap because of the history buildup) I think it’s possible to be both.
Pteryxx:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
hey, did y’all see this? Eagle Scouts are returning their medals to repudiate the Boy Scouts of America’s stance excluding gay participants.
http://boingboing.net/2012/07/23/eagle-scouts-stand-up-to-the-b.html
Follow-up with more letters joining the protest here:
http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/more-men-join-the-ranks-of-for.html
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Thank you, Pterryx. And shame on any Scouts (who can) who don’t follow suit.
I can’t adequately express how thrilling it is to finally be among the group of people exerting social pressure for a morally just cause and seeing it work It’s been a goddamn long time coming.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:26 pm
Today is another fucking time course experiment.
24, 18, 12, 9, 6, 3, and 1 hour time points.
I am not going to sleep tonight. Or tomorrow, for that matter.
Side rant: I tried to download Mountain Lion. Fucking App Store freezes at the payment confirmation page. WTF?
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 25th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
Since I’ve been looking at ridiculous Twitter feeds all day, if you’re not into Bane Capital, how about Kim Kierkegaardashian?
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
This just keeps choking me up every time I look at it. There are good people in this world, who’ll stand up for what’s right. It’s good to be reminded of that.
Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
still threadrupt, still busy, but when i was reading some Pharyngula 2 nights ago that I had downloaded to read while off-line (which I was for nearly 3 days – horrors!!!), one of the littles (the 4 year old) noticed and took a dramatic liking to the crockoduck in the banner.
Does anyone know if there’s any possibility of creating such a stuffy? She doesn’t have much imagination in naming her stuffies (stuffed cat = kitty, stuffed horse = horsey, stuffed white, snub-nosed whale = belugie, etc. …with the one exception that white dog with a bit of black = Spot)
but this is a kid with great imagination in her play. She’s also a keen observer. I told her that birds are dinosaurs, then, when we saw a giant chicken-sculpture yesterday & I said that at that scale you could really see how closely related birds are to dinosaurs, she put in,
“No. Birds ***are*** dinosaurs.”
I stand chastised. But the point is, she’s eating this new knowledge up and her love for the crockoduc (crocoduck? sp help plz?) corresponds delightfully with my desire to introduce her to fabulously interesting concepts. Not least the concept that people can be idiots and therefore critical thinking, QED.
So – With all the stuffies in the toy-store-record, how come I never see a crockoduck? And how can we change that?
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
I need to write a BrdU incorporation song.
♬ BrdU, fading, fading, as the cells divide…
♪ BrdU, tracing the clonal lineages…
♫ BrdU, glowing bright! ♩
Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
Esteleth –
Congarats, that’s truly awesome. And, like Greta said about her knee, quite a testament to exactly the values of this blog.
Good for you, good for science, good for evidence based medicine. Libations all around. Mine is a fruit smoothy (there are reasons why I didn’t drink these things for years – I was afraid I would like them too much and spend all my money on them. Yeah, I was right about that one. Throw bananas, ice, some non-dairy milk in the bottom 1/2 of a blender & fill the rest with almost any berry you can name and I can’t get enough. Ms. Crip Dyke has introduced me to my crack.)
chigau (自分のサンドイッチを作ろう！):
July 25th, 2012 at 8:52 pm
Caught up!
Congratulations for jobs and logs and others.
Big hugs for those in need and smaller hugs for by-standers.
Who has the grog?
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:53 pm
*gives chigau a tankard of BrdU-laced grog*
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:55 pm
SciAm blogger’s opinion on the “paleo diet”
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
Hey, it’s my first random twitter fight! I sent a tweet to the Chicago alderman who blocked a Chick-fil-a franchise from opening in his district thanking him, and I got a tweet from some random guy saying that no, it’s blocking rights rather than protecting them.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
I just got Twitter spam from a Russian dating site.
Am confused.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:06 pm
Go, Eagle Scouts! That is beyond heartening to read. Thanks, Pteryxx.
Mister is an Eagle Scout, I’ll let him know about this, he’ll send that medal right back.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Crip Dyke, the only way you’ll get a crocoduck plushie is to make one.
chigau (自分のサンドイッチを作ろう！):
July 25th, 2012 at 9:10 pm
Esteleth
mmm tangy!
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Plushie crocodile, plushie duck, some scissors and thread…
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Okay, chigau, in a few hours I’ll sac you and section your intestine, okay?
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Glad you like, it chigau.
*evil laugh*
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Bad Esteleth! Poor, poor chigau!
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Dundee:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Good morning, all.
Congratulations, Esteleth.
Thanks for the ehugs and kind words, Caine, Giliell, Beatrice, Audley, Dianne, Carlie, Louis, Pteryxx, Daisy, Nutmeg, Cicely. All you strangers who feel like friends.
Dianne, it’s OK. Fortunately we’re Australian, so C’s partner (& husband for one day) doesn’t have bankruptcy worries.
OgVorbis, big hugs. Your progress in memory, with logjam analogy, sounds very similar to my friend M, who has bad PTSD and started up the detailed memory return complete with vivid flashbacks when her abuser died and she went to the house again for the first time in decades. I hope it goes easy on you. Understanding does help you to ride it out, I gather.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Sowwy.
*offers thunk grog*
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:29 pm
This Tornado Loves You, which I have been either listening to or singing all day today.
chigau (自分のサンドイッチを作ろう！):
July 25th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
oi!
Am I going to turn into something …
uuurrk.
.
.
.
portia:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
Audley:
Oh jebus…that’s almost as bad as my dad who is constantly telling me about all the alien activity throughout history. And my sister believes she’s psychic but is decidedly not annoying about it…which is good I guess. My aunt is so alt-med she shouted in my face about bee pollen the other day. (“Well what are you going to trust, [Portia], the folk remedies or the scientific ones?!” “Uh, is that a serious question?”) Suffice to say, I feel your pain. Good thing TET is here to function as a support group, ha.
Lots of my family is into herbal cures as well. Raised by hippies and all that. My non-medically-educated self sees some merit to lots of them, but there’s obviously a limit. I was told “You can’t prove it doesn’t work!” the last time I asked “HOW does it work, though?”
I feel like I’m losing friends that way…I’ve started to pull back on the facebook debates just because the social consequences are wearing on me. But the ridiculous crap that comes up often just begs a response. And it is all the more frustrating when you know they have the capacity to understand reality, they just lack the will.
portia:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
Carlie:
Don’t tell him about Chicago not letting Walmart in without unions, they’ll freak out about the liberties! Oh wait…conservaturds would probably approve of restricting worker’s rights.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Nah, you won’t turn into anything. You’ll still be all chigau-ish, just fluorescent.
chigau (自分のサンドイッチを作ろう！):
July 25th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
fluorescent
Cool!
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
Okay. But most goverments claim I’m too young to drink. Does BrdU-enhanced grog produce higher Isp for the rocket engines?
ImaginesABeach:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Crip Dyke -
there is a company called childsown.com that makes stuffed animals from a child’s drawing. I don’t know if they could make a crocoduck, but it might be worth a try.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Well, BrdU not alcoholic. But it will turn all the tissue it interacts with fluorescent.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:05 pm
Well then. *imbibes*
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:05 pm
*gets the blacklight*
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:05 pm
I have just been exposed to the most adorably stupid argument for theism on Facebook. Yes, it’s from an adult. Yes, it was serious:
Spud bless you.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
If reindeer don’t fly, how does Santa get around?
rorschach:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
If there isn’t a Santa why are there presents?
If there isn’t a Joseph Smith why is there Utah?
And who’s Mano Singham?
oaksterdam:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
Cipher, thanks for that. The Neko made me smile. this has been making me smile today. (takes about a minute for her to just sing the damn song already.)
also making me happy.
Biggest thing making my day: just knowing you people are here. Been lurking daily long enough to remember when Kenny showed up with the NDE!!11!eleventy!1!. Thanks to all y’all who spoke up during these last few threads – you know the ones – I don’t even have the words. Just know that some of us were following along amazed and in awe. Grog’s on me.
Caerie, rage flail (love the addition, I gotta get one of those), I spend every xmas with creationist RWers. I’ve seen this exact argument. Good luck with that.
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
Been off at work and otherwise busy, so in no particular order:
@ Crip Dyke #233
L can totally make a crocoduck stuffie for the little one, although we’ve had problems w/Customs delaying some of the things he’s sent to Canada. You’ve got my email, let me know if you’re interested.
@ogvorbis:
My jaw dropped at the sam part of your story as everyone else. My enitre sympathies, and *hugs* if appropriate
@ Alethea
*hugs* to you as well; my deepest condolences
@Ing
Congratulations. Yay for the new job.
@Caine
the ratlets remain adorable
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
oaksterdam, your second link doesn’t click :( But I liked that first one!
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
Christ, Rorschach. Read him and weep:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2012/07/25/the-chick-fil-a-controversy/
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:50 pm
Oh yeah! I didn’t tell everybody!
So, the ceiling was falling down because one of the toilets upstairs was pouring water all day.
My mom made it stop pouring water, but obviously we’re going to have to, you know, fix it somehow.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Cipher, is it your house or a landlord’s?
Pteryxx:
July 25th, 2012 at 11:00 pm
aw Josh, thanks for the compliments in that other thread. *blush*
Now you got me curious about your Surly-ramic. Is it okay to show photos?
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 25th, 2012 at 11:02 pm
It’s our house – I’m back in ND now. I forgot to explain that part too.
oaksterdam:
July 25th, 2012 at 11:04 pm
Whoops
Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing):
July 25th, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Gah, what is it about asshats who moan about people getting emotional in blog comments?
People have emotions. When you say something that angers or upsets them, they have the right to express that in whatever fucking language they choose to use; that’s how they let you know that it’s happened. Just because you can’t exercise enough empathy to grasp why someone else might get worked up, doesn’t mean you have the right to tell them they shouldn’t.
Fuck, but I’ve seen too much of this ignorant, privileged bullshit lately.
Jadehawk, mec fâché en jupe:
July 25th, 2012 at 11:22 pm
IIRC, one of the writers at NLQ said she was subjected to birthrape by her homebirthing midwife…
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
July 25th, 2012 at 11:23 pm
Caine, I just heard about Esme. I’m so sorry. Esme touched the lives of so many people she knew nothing about, but her admirers looked hopefully and gratefully for every word and picture you posted about her. She will be sorely missed.
I’m glad Esme’s children have you, Mister, and Havelock to look after them. The pictures of them escaping from the cage are breathtaking. I look forward to hearing all about their lives and adventures.
*hugs and much love*
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 25th, 2012 at 11:29 pm
Pterryx-Lemme wait until I get the Surly Ramic, but then I promise I’ll post pics.
Hekuni Cat-I got your lovely card in the actual paper mail the other day and it was such a nice thing. . thank you! I’ll be responding shortly, pen pal:))
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
July 25th, 2012 at 11:39 pm
Josh, you’re welcome and I’m looking forward to it!
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:24 am
Melting is proceeding over 97% of Greenland:
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2160
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:30 am
Good news via AronRa!
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:49 am
Pteryxx:
*celebratory bell-ringing*
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:52 am
Maybe a good use for all those creationist and science-denial textbooks would be to use their pages as protective insulation over Greenland. >_>
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:09 am
Pteryxx: Make sure to bleach them first; part of the problem is the lowering albedo of the ice.
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:10 am
Mostly threadrupt, but:
Althea, I’m so sorry to hear about your friend. *hugs*
Obvorbis, *hugs*
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:18 am
Sexism in Space continued:
The TMA-11 re-entry a while back went roughly. From Wikipedia:
Note the same thing happened on TMA-10 with an all-male crew. Nobody was complaining then.
auntbenjy:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:22 am
New Zealand gay marriage poll to crash here:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7354142/Parliament-to-vote-on-gay-marriage-bill
Sorry if someone has already posted this.
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:35 am
My quirkiest cat is eating salmon. She really is not 100% convinced that salmon is actually food, though, so she spreads it out on the floor, hunts through it for the least suspicious bits (what her criteria for this is, I do not know) and eats those.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:00 am
Good morning
Matt Penfold
Don’t confuse US homebirth midwives with nurse midwives or European standard midwives. Registration for the NBC darling midwives requires something like “having attended 30 births with another midwife”. Yep, that’s getting your driver’s license after having sat in the passenger’s seat for long enough. They also don’t carry malpractise insurance.
++++
Yes, and it’s hard. Because people get defensive and hurt and all upset just because you tell them that “Ehm, no, that’s actually not true”
Caerie
Wait, your nephew is my cousin?
I know what you’re going through and wish you and your family good luck.
++++
I remember He-man fondly. Never had any cause my mum thought them crap.
++++
Tenderly roasted and stuffed with garlic
++++
Crip Dyke
Never put that question before a crafter.
The easiest way would be to buy a crocodile plushie and a duck plushie and, well, mix ‘n’ match (plus, you can make it a duckodile mate!)
At the museum where David works they had this wonderful sculpture/toy where kids could remove the “outer layer” and put it on again like a jigsaw, only that one side was the “dinosaur” side, with scales and stuff and the other one the bird side with feathers and stuff. David immediately noticed that they missed an important muscle.
Strawvulcan combined with shutting down people
I remember that from my mum: You’re angry therefore you’re wrong
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:10 am
and the abusers corollaries: I hurt you therefore you’re wrong, and I don’t give a shit therefore you’re wrong. Currently on display in the Shame thread…
Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:17 am
@Caerie #261
Wow, that just … I mean you … Wow.
If there isn’t a tooth fairy, why do we get new teeth?
Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:24 am
@Pteryxx
Talk about channeling my dad. And if you have actual knowledge from some source I didn’t tell you about first, you’re wrong. And if you get emotional, then I know you are just whining for attention because nothing matters unless I say so, therefore you’re wrong AND annoying.
Ah, those days are gone. And about time.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:37 am
honestly, I was only *sexually* abused a little bit, that I can tell. The dismissal and gaslighting and invalidating going on in that thread’s far more triggering to me than the rape stories so many survivors came forward to share.
Now I’m starting to recall how I wasn’t allowed TO LEARN without permission. No wonder I lay out citations every chance I get. *headshake*
John Morales:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:24 am
Pteryxx, that’s where the knuckle-dragging beetle-browed troll-bashers like Nerd and I come in — we may not have much social science expertise or first-hand knowledge, but we know specimens when we see them.
(Not that any regular is less than expert at troll-bashing, of course, but grunts are always handy)
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:30 am
Heck, I need y’all to counter my extreme good-faith-itis. Multiple tactics FTW. ~;>
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:37 am
Maybe someone remembers when I was talking about that new government measure where employers take young people with no work experience to work for them for free, the workers only get a pittance from the government for it.
Well, to be able to apply for that, one has to be on the unemployed bureau.
Well, I’ve been kicked off the unemployed bureau (national employment service – I’m not sure of the correct translation).
I’ve worked on contract for three months. I earned little, but one of those three months that little was over the limit I am allowed to earn and stay at the bureau.
The catch : In order to apply for that measure above, one has to be unemployed (that is, on the employment service) for 90 days.
So, I can’t apply to the service until August 20. Only 90 days after that I will be allowed the privilege of working for free and a couple of peanuts from the government.
John Morales:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:44 am
Beatrice, this may be rude of me, but: are you sure about that?
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:45 am
The thing is, I started working in April. I was checking the limits of how much I can earn in late March before signing the contract.
Apparently, the limit was lowered at the end of March. I guess they didn’t correct it on the website or I missed it by a couple of days.
Next time, if there is a next time, I’ll just open a separate account.
Is that fraud? I think it might be, since I would be keeping separate accounts in order to hide earnings from the employment service.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:55 am
Yes, I’m sure.
I couldn’t get the monthly stamp today. I went to see my advisor who wasn’t there, but her colleague checked the situation and informed me that there is nothing she can do.
“You shouldn’t have worked then, that’s the law”. Not an exact citation, but close enough.
birgerjohansson:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:59 am
We are all susceptible to delusions http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528745.700-we-are-all-susceptible-to-delusions.html
— — —
Z-pinch fusion rocket: “Alpharetta graduate seeking ‘Holy Grail’ of rocket propulsion system” http://phys.org/news/2012-07-alpharetta-holy-grail-rocket-propulsion.html
— — —
Shortened telomere length tied to dementia, mortality risk http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-07-shortened-telomere-length-tied-dementia.html
— — —
Mystery of Native Americans’ arrival http://phys.org/news/2012-07-mystery-native-americans.html
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:01 am
Beatrice: *headdesk*
Shouldn’t the limit *at the time of signing* apply over the contract? or would that be expecting too much decency and common sense from the programs involved?
birgerjohansson:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:10 am
I just realised the link above would go a long way to explain some of the weird beliefs you are discussing…
“We are all susceptible to delusions” http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528745.700-we-are-all-susceptible-to-delusions.html
Believing you are possessed by a demon, but otherwise being perfectly functional (no shizophrenia).
This kind of crap must be really common, substitute “demon” for a zillion other odd beliefs.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:11 am
I signed it in april, but I was informing myself in march. I didn’t expect for it to change in the meantime, which was maybe a week or two.
I should have just opened another account to be safe anyway. There isn’t a single thing left that I haven’t somehow fucked up.
theophontes (坏蛋):
July 26th, 2012 at 4:12 am
@ birgerjohansson
{theophontes, clad in long jacket with fedora pulled low, sneaks into TET via back door. Waits in shadows until birger walks past.}
[whisper]
Pssst, I have some 2,4,6,8,10,12-Hexanitro-2,4,6,8,10,12-hexaazaisowurtzitane going cheap…
[/whisper]
@ David M.
I have written to the management to complain… ;D
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:19 am
argh… Beatrice, I wouldn’t call that *your* fuck-up. This sort of shit happens when a system’s badly designed with no safeties or precautions in it, with no concern for who it hurts. It’s designed to be a minefield, impossible to navigate without taking damage. To thin the herd.
A system operating in good faith would have given warning, something like “This change will take effect on such-and-such a date” a month in advance. You were played. Please don’t blame yourself.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:30 am
Yeah, but I should have double checked and triple checked. I heard different info about that limit and for some reason thought what was written there is the right answer
I was sure I asked my advisor about the limit, but now I’m not so sure any more. Or maybe she gave me the wrong number too. not that it matters anyway.
Sorry was dumping stupid problems here.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa):
July 26th, 2012 at 4:58 am
These are far from ‘Stupid problems’, Beatrice.
This shit frustrates me, just like my dad owing a fuckton of money for EI’s fuckup.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:20 am
Beatrice
Argh shit. Government aren’t stupid, they’re assholes. Yes, let’s punish people for working and then claim that they’re parasites for not working. And punish them some more.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:14 am
Portia – you were right on the money; his next tweet was about scumbag politicians taking away the rights of business owners. I said that there has never been a right to open a business wherever you want, and asked if he’d heard of zoning laws and urban planning.
Jeez, Beatrice, that’s terrible. And not your fault.
rorschach:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:23 am
Watching a nice little movie called “The Woman in Black” with Daniel Ratcliffe tonight, quite enjoyable.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:29 am
I’m an idiot. I’ve realized that of course opening another account wouldn’t help, since they are getting the info about any salary I might receive from the pension insurance bureau.
So, the only answer is that I should have declined that job offer.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:42 am
Uhm, Josh, could you please tone down your violent fantasies a bit. I understand and share your anger, but I was raised with corporal punishment and the idea that I needed a good spanking once in a while and that I deserved it (how could I provoke my mother so terribly by putting my hands on my butt when she shouted at me so that she had to come down, take a stick and beat me with it? She still tells that story about how I made her freak out), so it really gets me when you write stuff like that. Not because I think you’d do it, but because of triggers, you know?
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:54 am
Oh yeh gods, over on Twitter Thunderdoof has challenged PZ to watch something on youtube:
It’s a video by “Girlsayswhat”, the Chill Girl Gold Standard who tells us that women have only one valuable thing and that is looks in since those peak early they afterwards feel compelled to “ellbow their way into men’s spaces” and since they suck (because they also never ever really work on anything or learn anything or accomplish anything) they then make other men do the dirty work for him.
Yes, that’s “kick-ass”.
Can we finally call him a full-blown misogynist who thinks that women are just fucktoys or are we still injustly labelling him?
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:54 am
Mystere was a fantastic, amazing show. If you’re ever in Vegas, see it. Also see O. I can’t say much about Ka since I’m seeing it tonight, but given how incredible Mystere and O were, Ka can’t be much worse (in fact, I’ve heard it’s Cirque’s best show)
Louis:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:12 am
Giliell,
Whether he is or isn’t (and I have an inkling he is) he’s certainly doubling down douchedonut of dastardly dimensions. Sad really, I like some of his videos.
But then I expect everyone to have feet of clay.
Louis
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 8:31 am
So, I just fired someone today.
Yay for me, I guess?
birgerjohansson:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:32 am
theophontes
Throw in some unobtanium and we have a deal. I will pay you with stem-cell-rich fetuses that fell off the back of a truck.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:39 am
Wait, what?
How can they fire you, you’re pregnant!
I mean, you didn’t steal the coffee kitty, did you?
Shit, I’m so sorry.
Can we help?
birgerjohansson:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:41 am
American society explained? “A pinch of opportunity makes deep inequality more palatable” http://phys.org/news/2012-07-opportunity-deep-inequality-palatable.html
(my comment: Allow one or two to get socially mobile and the rest of the peons will think they have the same chance)
.
Loss of Arctic sea ice ’70% man-made’ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/26/arctic-climate-change
Muse:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:42 am
Giliell –
I think you may have misread. It looks like Audley was the one doing the firing. Still sucks, but if a different way.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:45 am
Muse, Oh, Ok, thank you, I just read Audley and fired and panicked.
Now I look a bit stoopid
rorschach:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:58 am
Ah shit, just saw the tweets on the Mick Nugent post. Who is a friend. I was going to go to bed…*sigh*
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 8:58 am
No no no! I’m not fired!
I fired one of my guys. Here’s a pro-tip: Don’t call me a bitch while at work. I will fire your ass and my entire company will back me up.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:00 am
Audley
In that case: Yay for you!
Did you give him the URL of the slimepit so he can go and have a cry over there?
Urgh, now I have to leave the flat and it’s HOT outside
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:04 am
Beatrice, it’s entirely not your fault that the system over there is just as fucked up as the one over here. The fact that there wasn’t some type of direct notification to all petitioners of the change shows that not even a minimum of consideration was shown for jobseekers in this scenario. Actual consideration, of course, would have consisted of basing it on when you applied, not changing things at all, or not even having this stupid program and instead just have the government directly hire people for a while.
@ Audley
That can suck, but it sounds like the firee had it coming.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 9:07 am
Also: In the middle of a fb flame war with an antichoice nutter (not one of my friends, thank goodness) who thinks I’m desensitized and heartless because abortion “harms children”*. Question is, when do I drop the bomb that I’m nearly 7 months pregnant? I want to see this lady’s head explode.
She also pulled out the argument that there has been an observation of a fetus trying to get away from the suction device. Besides pointing out that brain and nerve development aren’t advanced enough in the first trimester for a fetus to do anything purposefully and all of its motions are automatic, is there anything else I am missing?
*As stupid as the “killing babies” rhetoric is, saying abortion “harms children” is even more idiotic. When did that become a thing? I can only recall seeing the “harms children” argument in the past few months or so.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:12 am
Audley:
YAY
ASAP.
Propaganda going back to at least The Silent Scream.
Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:12 am
@Caine #242 –
I kind of thought that it would have to be hand made, I was just hoping that someone else had previously had this idea and would have a good idea how to go about it.
Lo and behold, we get “child’s own”
and also Gilliel’s great suggestion for buying a duck and a crock and mixing parts – which sounds like the best and easiest option, though I’ll also check out child’s own.
I love Pharyngula. thanks, all.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:14 am
Audley
send her this pic and ask her if she considers that to be a child. If yes, that’s an elephant.
No, you’re not missing anything. Embryos have reflexes and react to outer stimuli. The fact that severed frog legs do that, too when you salt them tells you something about the significance.
portia:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:21 am
Carlie:
Smart money is that the next one (if there is one) will be “The free market will solve any problems of discrimination that arise, because freedom”
…ya know, because that has been soooo true throughout history. People just wake up and stop being bigots without social pressure or government intervention of any kind. Yep.
Audley:
Drop the Pregnancy Bomb by all means. Sounds like she’s dug herself deep enough to make it fun to watch the reaction. I haven’t heard “harms children” much, just “kills babies.” That video she references is blatantly fake, but I can’t find a source for that at the moment. Good luck. Oh, and way to go firing that guy, I wish I could rid my life of people like that, ha.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:36 am
Damn, you’re good. It was the “they don’t discriminate against anyone being in their stores” variant.
I figured out what happened: the alderman retweeted my thanks to him (yay!) which magnified the visibility. I’ve got three going now who are all telling me how much I’m wrong. One of them at least looked at a source I posted to them and said I had a point (also yay!). Is it really bad that I know I should be annoyed, but I’m secretly relishing the arguing?
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:43 am
Hekuni Cat, thank you. ♥
Team Esme is doing very well. They are all out and free ranging now, coping beautifully. Full rats, just miniature! They have pretty much mastered how to get around (up/down the condo, get on the attached feeding table, how to climb up the martin’s cage to get to the oh-so-cool high shelf in the closet, which ladder leads to my desk and to the floor, etc.) and are having a blast.
Just got breakfast set out for everyone: salad, dry mix, kitten chow, cheerios, chocolate ensure, water, tea and formula.
Sam spent most of night nest building all over the damn place, now that he’s had a plague of ratlets following him around everywhere. He’s not sure what to think of them, although some of them are most certainly his kidz. Both he and Havelock are overjoyed to have access to the condo back, though.
portia:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:43 am
I’ve argued with far too many libertarians.
That’s really fun! No wonder you’re getting so much attention. How gratifying that one of them actually learned and adjusted their position accordingly.
Not at all! I think it’s a great thing, especially given my lurker’s view of your impressive argumentation skills. Keep on keeping on. (And I won’t tell your secret, ha). I usually get so annoyed with liberturds so quickly I throw up my hands (“But a neighborhood could buy a fire truck!”)
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:47 am
Audley:
! Good for you, he deserved to have his ass canned.
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:50 am
Good morning.
I have a question (and this may be triggering, so read with care):
Am I a sick person? In one of the dreams last nigh, I dreamt of my abuser and I ‘enjoyed’ what he was doing. And I remember enjoying it back then (well, I do now (apparently there was more (but this is rather low impact compared to the photos))). How they hell could I take pleasure in the abuse?
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:52 am
I am at a professional computer security conference. Some companies have booth babes at their booths . Why are there booth babes at a professional conference? If they want more women in IT they can start by abandoning the “IT professionals are horny teenagers” idea.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:53 am
Oggie – that’s not uncommon. I’m sure many people here know good references, but I think it’s called “body betrayal” – it was just referred to recently in one of the threads, I think.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 9:54 am
Caine:
Yay ratlets! Mr Darkheart sends his sympathies about Esme, he thought she was beautiful and sweet. He also loves being able to keep up with your rattie updates.
Giliell:
Thank you for the link! I will use it post haste. :)
All: She brought up Chuck Colson. *snortle!* Yes, convicted felons are such a reliable source.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:00 am
Ogvorbis:
Do some reading about body betrayal. Your body will react to certain stimuli in the normal way, regardless of how much you may be recoiling in repulsion, fear, horror, etc.
This is one of the most difficult things to reconcile about sexual abuse/assault. As I mentioned, I experienced my first orgasm at 9, during being raped by family member. The rape was bad, I was distanced, detached from it at that point, however, the orgasm hit home very hard, and yes, it felt good. This all left me in a state of miserable confusion for a very long time.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:03 am
Audley:
Please tell him thank you. ♥ I got a couple more shots a few minutes ago, a bunch of ratlets like to pile on *top* of the igloo on the top shelf to nap. Idjits. :D
rorschach:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:13 am
I wish PZ would warn us before he drops a bomb like the smug thread. Wouldn’t have taken my sleep lollies that early otherwise. Now I’m going to miss all the fun !
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 10:16 am
To everyone:
Thank you all for giving me the space to learn and the education to smack down antichoice arguments. Two years ago I would have not been able to defend abortion access without descending into *flailing rage filled incoherence*. The dumbass I’m arguing with now has resorted to the “God’s love” argument, so we all know that she’s lost.
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:36 am
Thank you for the information about body betrayal. And I remember reading that here. Recently. And I failed to grok as it did not intersect with my knowledge.
Scary. Not fair.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:44 am
Ogvorbis:
Others have mentioned “body betrayal”. I think the layman’s concept would simply be that the body reacts mechanically to mechanically administered stimuli. You can no more control it than you can control your heart rate – in some cases, you can slow it down or speed it up, but you can’t stop it. Loud noises make us jump, smells can trigger memories, and certain activities – even done against our wishes – will release endorphins and dopamine and other “happy” chemicals into our systems.
cicely:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:45 am
WIN!
-
Ouch! Two, two, two problems in one!
You (and your wallet) have my sympathies.
-
Hekuni Cat! *pouncehug*
-
Huzzah!
-
*hug* for Beatrice. Sorry.
-
Muse:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:51 am
Ogvorbis, allow me to put on my crisis line hat. Without breaking confidences, I can tell you that one of the most common things I have to tell people is that as much as it sucks, that’s normal. One’s body reacts to physical stimuli. It happens. It doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with you.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:19 am
The Shame thread has put me over the edge; I’m done in there for the day.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:39 am
CIpher,
well, torquilmacneil has turned out to be a dishonest fuck. No surprise there .
And that’s why I don’t want to get involved in the smug thread. How much time are we supposed to waste educating each and every little fucker who has no intention of learning anything? Pteryxx tried, to no avail. I don’t see why we should have to be indefinitely nice to him, in some vain hope that at some point, after upsetting everyone (like you now) he might possibly learn a tiny little something.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:47 am
Listening to Janis Joplin. Makes me feel a bit better.
Any thoughts about this camera model (link)? I was going with Carlie’s suggestion of Panasonic Lumix line.
If not that one, maybe some other of the DMC-ZS [some number]. I managed to forget which models exactly the store has (I went there today after finding out about employment service, so I was a bit distracted).
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:51 am
Beatrice – I think the best thing you can do is to try them out in-store. You won’t be able to take pictures, but the “feel” of the camera in your hand is more important than it seems until you start using it. For example, I was positive I wanted a Nikon Coolpix (that’s the brand I’ve always gotten) until I picked one up – too thin, too small overall, I couldn’t deal with how tiny it all was for my sad motor skills and hand size.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:59 am
…and it was instant. Picked it up, and somewhere the back of my brain went “NO NO NO NO NO”. I spent the better part of 10 minutes trying to convince my brain that no, the Coolpix was the one with the specs and price I wanted, but my sensory response said otherwise. Same with the Sony cybershot – too heavy!*
*yes, I am Goldilocks.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
well, I educate because it works *for me*, and I don’t feel particularly betrayed or ashamed when some doucheconveyance shows it was all wasted on them. Maybe it’s helpful to spare other folks from trying it, I dunno. But I sure don’t advocate that everyone who’s frustrated, disgusted, triggered, or just has better things to do with their time OUGHT to put effort into educating.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
carlie:
That’s perfectly legitimate. I bought my first DSLR because of how it felt in my hands – the one I’d planned on getting was too small and uncomfortable.
If you want to get into taking pictures, you should have a camera you like holding.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
Pterryx—what I hate is that dishonest, partisan, passive aggressive people like lilandra get shielded from the consequences of their behavior. They get to whine about “cussing” and they get to ignore clear, reasonable, utterly uncontroversial requests to retract dishonest statements or acknowledge mistakes.
This is a betrayal. It betrays decency, it prevents moral progress, and it retards the just social consequences that should play out. And it makes me fucking crazy.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
also I did shoot my mouth off in the Smug thread by asking folks not to complain about PZ’s request to back it down a notch. I’m willing to explain further here if anyone wants. (If they don’t, that’s fine too…)
Doug Hudson:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Beatrice,
When I engage one of the trolls, I don’t expect to change their mind; rather, I’m hoping to negate the influence of the troll on others reading the thread, and maybe even help some lurker understand the issues better.
That’s how I’ve learned, by watching people argue against trolls, both here and elsewhere.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Thanks, Carlie.
Even with my freakishly small hands, I don’t feel comfortable clutching a tiny camera.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
And she continues to ignore. How’s that niceness workin’ out for y’all?
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Doug:
That’s a valid tactic. Like I said over there, the goal is to render people who poison the well harmless. You either do that by talking them into not poisoning the well, or you chase them out of town (since we don’t have jails – well, I suppose banning and TZT are sortof jails).
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
People like torquilmacneil are not the target of education on a blog. Xe was here (well, on that thread) to play games. And xe was good at it.
Think, though, about how many times, in the midst of a rhetorically bloody battle with the bastion of bastards, someone drops a comment, delurking, to thank those who have been shooting down the idiocy, the misogyny, the rape culture promulgation. It doesn’t happen often, but you do reach people.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Josh:
my admittedly socially incompetent instincts suggest that PZ might be trying to prove that point by clearing the field. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said about letting dishonest tone trolls get away with it. Maybe by clearing the field, he’s trying to force her to put up or shut up by responding to the nice comments that remain.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Oh, I didn’t mean that you or anyone else shouldn’t do it, just this what you have written above. Just that all this calling for people to be nice is annoying when I see people trying and I’m trying, but at some point it’s obviously useless and we still get called intolerant when we finally snap.
I won’t drag this further into TET, I might comment in the original thread or just fuck off.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
Ogvorbis,
I don’t mind the bloody battle, just the expectation that we keep being nice about it.
(so much for giving up the topic, as I promised)
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
Oh, also kinda OT: dunno about the tinyurl link, but I’ve been pasting direct links to the Pharyngula femwiki in the Shame thread, and they’ve gone through immediately, no problem. Maybe something got fixed?
test:
http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Feminist_link_roundup#Allyship
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:15 pm
Pterryx—I hope you’re right in your diagnosis.
Not that any of this matters, really, does it? There are clear enemies. That’s not going to change. The longer we put up with them the longer we have to wait for a better community.
I’m done.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
…also, if this tone discussion is too annoying in TET, we can always move to TZT. Would that be an improvement?
Beatrice: one problem with my educating at trolls, though, is that I’m potentially setting an example and shifting the acceptable methods of discourse, whether or not I intend to or actually advocate it. I can’t be sure that I’m not implicitly pressuring other people to be nice just by behaving as I do.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Josh: well, PZ almost never makes a request like that. I assume he has better social skills, and more inside knowledge, than I do, and I’m guessing he has a good reason. (Not to mention it’s his blog, his rules, natch.)
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
It doesn’t really bother me if we talk about this here, I’m just not sure if others would rather keep TET clean of this while there is a whole thread on the topic.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think you are. I think your comments are very valuable.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:24 pm
Pterryx, you go out of your way to make it clear that your preferred approach is not an implicit or explicit critique of a different or opposing approach. I’ve never felt scolded by you. Operating transparently and in good faith counts for a lot—it’s everything, really.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
Bah. Downloaded Mountain Lion on my desktop. Works great. Went to download it for my new laptop. App Store keeps crashing. Taking it to the Genius Bar this afternoon. Hopefully it is an easy fix.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Heh – and being a socially dense, aspie type, my response is to flat-out ask “Hey people in TET, am I bothering you and should I take it to TZT instead?”
For what it’s worth, I moved here because I think that *talking about justifying harsh tone* over in the Smug thread is, itself, continuing to color the discussion on a meta level. I think it’s interfering with what I perceive as PZ’s attempt to clear the field. I think IF I said any of this over there, I’d be inflaming the discussion in exactly the way PZ is trying to prevent.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
hee, thanks Josh. It’s kind of circular, because I make it explicit AFTER other folks, years back, justified their angry and cussy responses to subtle trolls. And it still doesn’t always work – remember baal asking all you harsh, mean commenters why y’all couldn’t be more like me? I laughed, but that did sting.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
FWIW, I’m far more guilty of scolding other people for being too nice. I think I’m right sometimes, but I’m sure I’m wrong sometimes too.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
It did. :)
—
I am not going back into the shame thread, but I am obsessing about the thing terry said about serial victims. I don’t know if I am one or not. I was not sexually abused as a child. I was, however, physically abused by two other children for several years, as I don’t think I’ve talked about here much but I talked about in PET. (Which is why I’m reading Cat’s Eye right now.) I tried to talk about it to an adult and was told that boys would be boys and to toughen up, and then when other members of my family found out there was one of those blowout fights that I considered to be entirely my fault; a therapist, also, asked me if I had been sexually abused by the two children, and told me when I said no that she wouldn’t be surprised because the outfit I’d worn in my first session with her showed so much of my breasts. Haha thaaaaanks.
I had serious problems with it for a long time because of my physical reaction to pain, and until very recently the only person who knew about that part of things was my second rapist, who told me he had known for a long time that something like that had to have happened to me. And throughout the years, there have been incidents with violent men which I treated as unremarkable, until my best friend recently was told by someone else (who needs to not do this) about one of them, then got extremely upset when he figured out that a.) I didn’t think it mattered because I thought it was normal and b.) it had happened multiple times.
And, you know, the whole dating two abusive rapists thing. And increasingly noticing that the second one – the one I trusted so much – was showing red flags since his second one-on-one interaction with me, and realizing that there is some evidence that there may have been others.
I don’t know.
:(
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:33 pm
Jesus, I need more tea. I’m not feeling remotely “civilised”. Someone get me scones and an etiquette primer on being all pink and ladylike, stat!
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
*Sets up a table with a white cloth, a bone china pot, and some cups.*
Here, I made cucumber sandwiches and scones, dahling.
*Pours some milk into a saucer for the ratties*
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
heh, it’s not going to be a very civilised tea with a flood of ratlets exploring and popcorning all over everything!
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Sit, Pteryxx dear! Are you wearing a hat?
*glares over the top of her glasses*
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
Uh, yes, yes I am! *pops nearest ratlet on top of head*
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
(if you put some peanut butter on top of your head first, the rat may even stay on. For a while.)
<_<
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Ooh, tea!
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
He’s a well-known asshole over at Ophelia’s to the point that she told him to STFU. And apart from using slurs and threats you have to go very far to make her say that.
+++
Um, I just got sent to bed by #1 until I stop enforcing the rule of not taking toys into the mouth.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Thank you, Esteleth.
Pteryxx, Havelock sits on my head all the time.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
May I have tea without a rat on my head? It can sit in the saucer.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
d’aww. I’ve only had pocket rats, and one shoulder rat, but never a head rat. Though I did have one who liked *gnawing* on heads.
Lynna, OM:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
ALEC has been feeling the heat lately. Simply having a few media sources notice that ALEC exists, and that they do what they do in the way that they do it raised so many red flags that 25 corporate sponsors pulled out of the organization.
I’m not sure why, but nobody seems to have noticed that when ALEC bigwigs began defending their methods they completely blew the “bipartisan” cover under which they had previously operated. Yes, ALEC used to claim to be completely bipartisan, which is sort of like mormons claiming to be not right wing because, you know, Harry Reid.
ALEC’s goals dovetail nicely with the mostly regressive goals of the LDS Church, and of Utah’s far-far-right legislators. Utah helps to export these regressive goals, in the form of McLegislation, to other states.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54560661-78/alec-corporate-group-groups.html.csp
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
THERE IS NOW A BOB ROSS SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE REMIX.
here.
Yay!
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
oh, and I had a clothes rat – he wouldn’t be satisfied with just the pocket, he was up your pants legs, down your sleeves, exploring your underwear. And he was bossy and uncompromising about it, too! (his name was Maul, appropriately.)
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
Nothing but Wicked, all day long!
:)
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
Beatrice, what Giliell said: Torquil Macneil has been pulling his dishonest hyperskeptical shit on Butterflies & Wheels for a long time. I haven’t seen him there in a while; hopefully Ophelia made him feel too uncomfortable to stick around.
Josh:
I noted that you and I had a GMTA moment about her being a schoolteacher and how she possibly reacts to kids trying to defend themselves against bullies.
Pteryxx, I disagree that comments about Thunderf00l’s racism should be off-limits, given that it has been obvious from his YouTube videos for a loooooong time. (Sorry if this is an outdated opinion; I’m way behind on the “Smug” thread.)
Cipher, I’m really sorry so many adults failed you when you were younger. Do not get me started on how so many therapists don’t belong in that profession. (Or medical professionals in general. PZ’s comments about pre-docs in the kitten thread were both horrific and unsurprising to me.)
A friend of mine alerted me to the existence of the “Thinking” Housewife, yet another example of “If you have to say it….” in user names, a while ago. Now General J.C. Christian has written about her spitting on the memory of Sally Ride.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
*hands carlie a jaunty hat*
Here, have some tea. I made enough for everyone.
Lynna, OM:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
A follow up to my post at 384: Here’s a partial list of the corporate entities that set up booths at the ALEC convention in Salt Lake City.
Right. Such a nice group of reasonable people. I definitely want them to write legislation for my congress critters to introduce.
Here’s an example of ALEC’s model legislation, an example in which Utah takes top prize for Most Bugnuts Rightwingery.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
…buh? I never said THAT. I don’t think PZ said it either?
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Whoops, you’re right: PZ asked people not to demand that Lilandra back up her argument about Thunderdump being attacked in the backchannel.
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
However, her accusations of abuse and foul language were, I think, focused on that thread but, when I asked about that, she refused to cite anything and claimed it was on a different unnamed thread. This one is odd.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
A certain other thread is reminding me of an episode of DS9. The Klingons have attacked the station and are mostly losing. In a last-ditch attempt at psychology, the general calls up Sisko and says, “Surrender now! Your shields are failing, my boarding parties are taking control, and my reinforcements are on the way!”
Sisko simply and calmly replies, “My shields are holding, your boarding parties are contained, and my reinforcements are closer than yours are.” And the general takes his fleet and leaves.
We keep hearing from people that our tone and condemnation – our fighting back – against racists and misogynists and bigots is splitting the community and needs to stop.
… And yet, our shields are holding, we’re containing their bigotry – and we’re constantly finding reinforcements.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Respectfully, no. She’s a very common type that I wish more people recognized and called out sooner. She’s a liar and she’s perfected the art of posing as a delicate flower as camouflage when she’s called on it. Sadly, the persona works, which is why she gets away with such brazen bullshit.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Richard, that was brilliant and perfectly apt. Yes. That, exactly.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
Also, due to a host of sexist social infrastructure, her pose is particularly effective for women who want to get away with being nasty pieces of work without being recognized for it.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
It’s known in the literature as Celeste-Hale Syndrome.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
y’know, this reminds me of the research showing that abortion does NOT entail horrible mental trauma for the patient, UNLESS she’s been indoctrinated to believe it’s a nasty sinful shameful act that will cause her horrible mental trauma.
Why aren’t they calling on the misogynists to STFU and keep their hating to themselves for the good of the movement? THEY’RE the ones severing ties with anyone who won’t put up with their crap.
“You’re dividing the movement by driving away perfectly good allies who happen to be women or minorities. Shut up and paste a fake smile on your face already!”
Paul:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
He had done similar on sciblogs before, at least trying to cool things down a bit when personal friends were discussed (Greg Laden, for example). It’s not surprising, though; it is his blog.
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
I had a back-of-the-neck rat. He would stretch out his full length around the back of my neck, like a rather-too-short-to-fit fur collar. And go to sleep. He was the chillest rat I have ever seen in my life and I still miss him.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Can that be enshrined and hauled out on every one of those threads, plz?
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
As I said, in the other thread:
I’m getting damn tired of all the people who show up here to repeatedly scold us over this, that and the other, when they can never be found in the thick of the liars, rape apologists, rape jokers, etc., showing us how it’s done. Go forth and change their minds! Go forth and bring them to reason! Who in the blankety blank is stopping them?
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Far too often the examples of misogyny on Not Always Right/Working make me wanna scream.
But this one is a rather amusing idea on how to accommodate stupid customers:
http://notalwaysright.com/murrays-law/22083
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Caine:
… is “Blankety Blank” the name of the Pharyngula commune?
*runs away*
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
I have no patience with or tolerance for the attitude of “oh, you’re ruining our community! You’re killing the movement!” anymore.
Yes, we’re ripping the house down. We’re building a bigger, better house.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Richard:
Why not? Welcome to Fuckety Fuck! :D
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
…Fuckety Fuck Island. I like it!
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:04 pm
I AM IN AN ARGUIN’ MOOD.
In addition to the twitter twits and the smug thread, I just pounced on one of those freakin’ “sponsored tweets” from some dumbass company saying to substitute avocado for butter in baking to make it healthier. Fuck. Eat avocados if you want. Eat cookies if you want. DON’T PUT AVOCADOS IN COOKIES TO MAKE THEM “HEALTHY”. GOD.
Um, maybe I need another cup of tea. Decaf.
Lynna, OM:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
I am really jealous of people who have a rat to sit on the top of their head while they drink tea.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Far too often the examples of misogyny on Not Always Right/Working make me wanna scream.
But this one is a rather amusing idea on how to accommodate stupid customers:
http://notalwaysrightDOTcom/murrays-law/22083
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Wait! We cannot break bread with you. You have taken the community which is rightfully ours. . . My people have pain and degradation; your people have fap sticks. The gods of my tribe have spoken. They have said: DO NOT TRUST THE MRAs. Especially Chunderfood. For all these reasons I have decided to scalp you and burn your Hoggletorium to the ground.
Paul:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Seriously, it’s madness. Everyone knows you use apple sauce, instead.
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Typically shitty writing on my part. I was referring to the thread itself in which we managed to metathread the thread while also simultaneously meta-ing another thread and discussing another thread, and some background emails, that we were not discussing.
And this one won’t have all sorts of sick shit hidden in the closets.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Carlie,
But… aren’t avocados full of fat? It doesn’t seem to me that you’re doing yourself any favors by subbing one high fat ingredient for another.
Besides, I do not want to show up somewhere with avocado chocolate cake or some shit like that. Blech.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
I was at a restaurant with my family and my friend texted me that he had a surprise for me – I immediately started stimming like crazy and became unable to eat. Most of my food is in my fridge now, and I’m still rocking and twitching XD To be fair, though, I wasn’t very hungry to start out with, since I woke up queasy and it’s been sort of downhill from there.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
1. Avocados in cookies is a horrible idea.
2. But, not all fat is created equal. Butter is full of saturated fat (bad for ppl like me with heart disease). Avocado is full of good-for-me fat.
The solution, however, is not to put veggie-fruit in cookies. The solution is to use butter and make cookies an occasional sometimes food (that is, if you have to give a shit. If you don’t, then eat the damned cookies!).
Doug Hudson:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Oooh, applesauce. I’ve made applesauce chocolate muffins before, unbelievably moist and yummy. And doesn’t taste like apples, oddly.
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Jesus, that lilandra is a thick one.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Josh,
Oh I give a shit. I hate food substitutions! (We all know this.)
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Incidentally, can someone explain to me why comment numbers aren’t searchable anymore?
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Bully!
Go stand in the corner!
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Beatrice:
That doesn’t even begin to describe her. This is just a repeat performance.
Ugh. I am sick half to death of her derailing threads in the name of her blessed TF and I’m not half happy with PZ for trying to hand the thread over to her and her dishonest tactics. Now she’s going off on TF being bullied comic book style.
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
On the topic of avocados, they’re a great vegan source of pantothenic acid. I know I for one have a hard time getting enough of that without a supplement. I have mashed them up and used them as a sort of butter replacement, but that’s been in savory dishes. I just can’t fathom putting them in cookies. Blech.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
I have done applesauce in baked goods, but as a replacement for eggs when I don’t have them (rather than for butter). Also to make it more moist.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
I was about to come over here and stomp around a little bit about lilandra and her lilunbearableness, but it looks like everyone else got to it first.
*stomps around*
Beatrice:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
Make me.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
I can’t believe I’m the only one who thinks this is an issue in Ernest W. Adams’ post.
Also, his cluelessness about the dangers of removing anonymity in online fora is fucking enraging. It’s not like this hasn’t been an issue in the gaming community itself in the last few years.
****
Josh:
Precisely.
Does anyone else remember that type from high school, who’d get all huffy if someone “cussed,” and the conversation would derail into consoling her? Or she’d say something assaholic, be called on it, and start up the waterworks? “But that’s not what I meeeaannnnt!! *sob!*” Rinse, lather, repeat.
Especially if the woman in question is fuckable by patriarchal standards, because then the d00dz she’s defending will become her knights in shining armor against whoever made poor ickle Buttercup cwy.
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Sorry. Hands Cipher a guacamole cookie.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
Lilandra leans a great deal on being Missus Aron Ra!!!1! (Thanks, Daisy.) She seems to think it means she can do no wrong and is the epitome of reason.
Owen:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
Damn right on the smug thread. Kudos to all of you who’ve kept up the pressure. Also, PZ can start a new thread now. I know it’s early, but Sili already won it at #410.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Apparently a hoax, but illustrative of the mindset.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
@382:
Suddenly I have this image of UFOs piloted by rats.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
*cough*bluharmony*cough*
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 26th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
A while back some of my friends were passing around a recipe for “raw” (eyeroll) chocolate pudding using, among other things, avocado and cocoa powder. Several of them swore it was delicious. I haven’t tried it.
I know in some cultures avocado is eaten like a fruit instead of like a savory vegetable, right?
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
Aw but no ew
Doug Hudson:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Gaucamole cookie sounds crazy enough to work. Strange, wonderful things can happen when you mix unusual ingredients.
Strange and terrible things can also happen…
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
lilandra is exactly what’s wrong with eductaed middle-class people, especially school teachers (yes, I’m an educated middle-class teacher, I know about them)
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Ms Daisy Cutter: sorry but the anonymity fail was all I could handle there. I tend to agree with you though, and I’m glad you brought it up because I didn’t have the spoons left.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
Spoons! Heh… I forgot to monitor my spoons. Common for me lately.
Stupid spoons.
One Thousand Needles:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Two big avocado cookies flanking a frozen, blended banana makes for an excellent vegan ice cream sandwich. Especially if the banana is just starting to get that brown, mushy, stick-sweet consistency.
NOM
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
Caine:
Neither can I. It seems so out of place.
I’ve only just come around to liking avocados, and even then I only like them in small amounts (on a salad, a few slivers on a sandwich). I used to not like them, but in recent years, I’ve made an effort to try foods I previously disliked, to see if maybe I like them now (still don’t like mushrooms or tomatoes, but I like red onions and avocado now).
One night at my last job, I was tremendously bored, so I decided to stuff some olives. I took salt, pepper, hot sauce, lime juice, avocado, and blue cheese crumbles and mashed them together. I put that mix inside a ziplock bag and cut off the end, depitted some olives (half a jar full-restaurant size, not store bought size) and squirted the stuff inside.
Funny thing, I hate olives, so I didn’t try them (more than a few servers did and they *loved* the stuffed olives). I did however, put the mixture atop grilled salmon and it was delicious.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
Oh god. I can’t keep up with one thread, let alone two.
Stupid attention span.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Audley:
And now you’re passing on your knowledge to newbies like myself.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
I think I need to take a break. Thread following envy.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Richard @394:
+1 for the win!
CT:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
I didn’t want to derail any more over there but I have to respond that I am not a haffer but my mother(aunts uncles) and grandmother were. I’m touchy for them. It’s not really about me. And the ‘half breed’ comments to me are from racists too stupid to live. Literally, most of them hide out in their mother’s houses so they don’t have to expose their precious selves to any PoC.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
kristinc:
I swear ya’ll are going to make me get a rat (not really as 3 dogs and 4 cats is enough for one 3 bedroom 1 bath home).
I never had an aversion to rats (I guess because I had gerbils as a child, I viewed them as similarly cute), but never *wanted* one. All this talk about rats and all the cute pics and the fact that they’re cuddly and smart andI’msototallyjealousofCaine (wellnotthepartwithhaving5000rats) has made me want one.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
Pteryxx:
FFI is kinda cool.
Perhaps we can make a TZT island where all the mean nasty people go live harmoniously together (yeah, right). It could be * FFS!* .
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
Paging Walton – (or any other Brit) How do you address the Leader of the Opposition in Parliament? I know for darned sure it’s not “Mr. Leader”, but what is the proper title?
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
I’m starting to wonder if Thunderf00t’s invitation here (and subsequent firing) are actually of benefit to the atheist/skeptic movement. The shitfest that’s been going on in the community over the last year or so has gotten kicked up to another level with his sexism and whining. Sure there are more than a few of his supporters defending his actions, but with the addition of *his* audience, surely there are more progressives that have become aware of FtB, or who disagree with Tf00t and are speaking out about it. More voices are speaking up. More and more people are refusing to stay silent and Thunderf00t may have inadvertently created a situation that’s a great primer for critical thinking, education on sexism & misogyny, and a host of ‘what not to do’s’ when arguing.
Or I could be completely wrong.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Doug (and any other ‘uses applesauce in baked goods’ ppl):
I don’t bake often, but after seeing this recommendation a few times, I’ve worried that I’m going to taste apples in my brownies or cake. That turns out to not be the case?
birgerjohansson:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
A few research links, mostly about medicine & health:
.
New drug could help maintain long-term weight loss http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-07-drug-long-term-weight-loss.html
.
New research confirms efficacy of transcranial magnetic stimulation for depression http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-07-efficacy-transcranial-magnetic-depression.html
.
Telephone therapy technique brings more Iraq and Afghanistan veterans into mental health treatment http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-07-therapy-technique-iraq-afghanistan-veterans.html
.
Lower vitamin D could increase risk of dying, especially for frail, older adults http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-07-vitamin-d-dying-frail-older.html
— — — — — — —
NB! (Why religion scam works:) Repetitious, time-intensive magical rituals considered more effective, study shows http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-07-repetitious-time-intensive-magical-rituals-effective.html
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Doug:
True.
Contestants in Cupcake Wars (Food Network reality show) have had to use some reaaaaaaaaaaaaally interesting ingredients.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
CT:
They are that stupid. If breathing wasn’t an involuntary function, they’d all drop dead. I’m feeling touchy myself, because Josh made a reference to scalping people upthread in response to a comment of mine. I know it wasn’t deliberate and I don’t mean to pile on Josh (you know I loves you!), but some days…yeah.
I think what bothers me most is that a lot of people seem to think all the Indians are already dead. The cowboyz killed ‘em all, right? :eyeroll:
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
In favor here.
Now all we need is a flag.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Tony:
I’m in love with the idea of a community being called For Fuck’s Sake!
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
what’ll the S be? Fuckety-Fuck Society?
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Tony – I can taste the applesauce when it’s in pancakes; not when it’s in larger items like cakes. It just kind of disappears, the way grated zucchini does.
Paul:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
In my experience, you totally can’t taste the difference.
Of course, my wife is fond of making brownies using beets as filler, and I would never have guessed there was a root vegetable inserted if I hadn’t been told. They’re quite delicious. So take whatever I say about food with a grain of salt (it enhances the flavor).
CT:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
gah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I’ve only been in the middle class society for about 7 years and damn if these people aren’t the most fucking insulated asshats sometimes. Even my white trash peeps know there’s fucking indians still but if I mention around these morons they are all “what? wait, I thought they were only in [insert whatever midwestern state here that they think "the reservation" is in]“. Southern middle class white culture, almost wish I hadn’t “made it”, whatthefuckever “it” is.
Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan:
July 26th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
Caine,
You just KNOW some people wish that was the truth.
—————————————–
How about a raised finger on a plain blue background?
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Caine. . yikes, I’m sorry! I thought the context of that movie dialogue I altered (Wednesday Addams calling bullshit on the nice happy White pilgrims befriending Indians) signalled that I was punching up, but I’m sorry to have tread in the wrong spot:((
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Caine:
One of my biggest issues, too. There is this prevalent idea that Native Americans are like some kind of fantasy character from the past and no longer exist: that having a family legend about a great-great-grandmother who may have been Cherokee erases white privilege and gives a person the right to speak for all Indians; that cultural appropriation and racial stereotypes–essentially “red face”–are a way to “honor” Native people, simply because they acknowledge that they exist.
There’s some assbackwards ignorance about race in general and what it means to be Native in specific there, but a hell of a lot of it starts with the belief that Natives aren’t modern, living, real people.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
CT:
Yeah, I know. Lots of times, I’d rather be on the rez.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
… mmm…
My favorite part about getting nachos is when you get to the bottom of the pile and there’s this mishmash of chips and cheese and toppings and the chips have all denatured so you need a fork to scoop up the gunk and it’s oooh so delicious…
mouthyb:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Richard: Oh yes, the goop. The goop I will stick my fingers in, if not stopped, and suck them clean again. *eyes roll up in head*
On the subject of avocados: the local Vietnamese places serve an avocado shake which is OMG amazing. They tend to treat it like a dessert item.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Josh:
No worries, Josh. I didn’t get the reference at all. Probably would have helped if I did.
Caerie:
Oh, don’t get me started on wannabe twinks. *spits* I absolutely loathe them and people who yak about “Indians”. We aren’t Indians. Each one of us is a member of a particular tribe, a nation. I’m half Oglala Lakota (not that you’d know by looking), I’m not half generic Indian. A friend of mine is Turtle Mountain Ojibway, not generic Indian.
Christ, I had better shut up. I’ll go on forever.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
Warning: I have a tendency to be the most sentimental glurgy person in the universe. Therefore, given all of the crap of the last few threads, I’ll just leave this here for everybody.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Pteryxx: I missed your anonfail. Shit, I’m sorry that happened.
Caerie:
The Roma get that kind of thing even worse.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Caerie:
I’ve been wondering how to pronounce your ‘nym…
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Caine, it’s actually a quite funny fuck you to the pilgrim myth. Context: Wednesday Addams is at summer camp and is cast as an in the Thanksgiving play. She’s supposed to suck up to the lily white blonde playing Goody McPilgrimPants but she doesn’t. Plays with stereotypes, but for my money it’s on target:
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
What definition of “twink” are you using? Or is the “twink” part separate from the the “wannabe”?
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Just saw this video Thank you for being a SUPERfriend!
I’m in stitches laughing and crying right now.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Esme’s Team seems to be convinced that Sam is a female, because he looks like Esme. They are relentless about trying to nurse off of him.
mouthyb:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
CT: My family (well, my mother’s family) is upper middle class, and my father’s family are farmers and work on oil rigs or chemical factories. I’ve personally been homeless not a few times and the most I’ve ever made a year is $16k.
Sometimes, when I do talk to my relatives (or to other middle class white people because I’m educated enough to ‘pass’), it’s like being slapped. Things find their way into the conversation, like assumptions about poor people, or things about Obama, or other sorts of ‘they’re not trying hard enough/they’re inferior’ things wander into conversation and *poof* I’m an alien again, even though they think they’re talking to someone who agrees with them because, duh, that’s the way things *really* are.
So I empathize.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Tony – reminds me of Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy from Spongebob. :)
leighshryock:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
The ‘A re-poll’ thread brought something to mind that I find an interesting question, but would ultimately be off-topic.
What are the moral considerations of using an Anencephalic infant as an organ source? Admittedly, most are still-born and not viable enough for organ harvesting, so it’s a bit of a corner case, but the thought does arise.
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:30 pm
Daisy:
Oh fuck. You just reminded me of the stupidest argument I ever had. A Wiccan was insisting that people who call themselves Roma are just posers, trying to take on some sort of fantasy character identity and that it only had as much validity as someone saying they’re Otherkin.
As I was explaining their history, the Holocaust, and exactly how stupid she was I referenced the fact that she calls herself a witch and then she went off on a rant about how her people were martyred in the Burning Times. :facepalm: Wiccan suffering was real. The Roma were just made up.
The fact that it was in person instead of online gave a special little “holy shit these trolls are real people” thrill.
Tony, Kay-ree. I was thinking I might need to phase into something else, though, because I don’t want to confuse people with all the other C nyms.
patrickgranvold:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
I was told this was the Spanking Parlor by Caine, is that correct?
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Sili:
Not the one you’re using. This is NDN specific and shortspeak for ‘twinkie’.
You might be a twinkie if…
Paul:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
No different than using an adult who didn’t sign up to become an organ donor? How do you feel about that?
Paul:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
Spanking Parlor is a bit of a running joke, but get comfortable enough with people here in the lounge and you never know what will happen.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
Hi Patrick, Welcome in. This is our lounge. Madame Patricia runs the Spanking Parlour and you must be very, very good* to be allowed in for even a light spanking.
*For a given quality of good, natch. ;D
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
@Josh:
Wait.
Pocahontas wasn’t a Chippewa… She was a Pamunkey. She was with John Smith in Jamestown, not the Pilgrims.
patrickgranvold:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
Sigh, I knew it was too good to be true. Still, good to verify the claim. And hi all! Been lurking here for some time, only recently overcame my reticence re: commenting.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
leighshyrock:
The infant’s parents?
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Dam you. Dam you to heck.
leighshryock:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
@Caine:
We’ll assume that the infant’s parents consented.
@Paul:
It’s a bit more nuanced than that.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Caerie:
Semi-related, but you don’t know how many times I’ve gotten the deer-in-the-headlights look from people when I mention that sexual “deviance” was targeted by the Holocaust as well. I actually had one guy pull the statement (in almost these words), “Well, you gays don’t know what real suffering is like. Your kind weren’t rounded up by the Nazis!”
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Patrick:
Welcome. If Caine can’t fit you into an FFI spank session (she has a few rats to care for at the moment) I’m sure Louis can accomodate you.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
godsdamn motherfucking stupid idiotic mouthbreathing self-styled fucking intellectual know it all pieces of slime with their fucking heads crammed up their poxy asses, aaaaauuuughhh.
Sorry, needed to spit something out. Carry on.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
Part-Time Insomniac:
As for flags, I was thinking of the “eight-armed cuttlefish” in blue against a field of light tan. Don’t know why.
Paul:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
Could you enlighten me as to how? I’m not being snarky.
Would adding the nuance that now we’re talking about someone born with congenital insensitivity to pain who had suffered irreversable brain damage, resulting in loss of conscious function but not cessation of vital bodily functions? Would that be more comparable to what you’re getting at?
I don’t see why you consider Anencephaly to present a special dilemma / need for consideration.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
thanks MsDC, not MY anonfail so much as an ally who really cares, wants to change the culture, but still can’t figure out why any honest person might have a problem posting their real name online everywhere. Sheesh. Not to mention the white-knighting macho fail. It’s just too disgusting… I left him links, maybe if the stars are right he’ll listen and get a clue. No sign of that so far though. Damn… I used to run with the biggest gay guild in my MMO, we don’t need well-meaning privileged dudes mass-outing by fiat. /rant
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
Really, anything simple, recognizable, and that represents Pharyngula would be good.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
Tony:
No no no no no. The Spanking Parlour is the purview of Madame Patricia. Nerd runs the Saloon. The primary queue is for Ghey sex with Brownian. This line is now miles long and Brownian is on official break. There is also a queue for Louis sex, which is also quite long.
Many of us are fake married to Josh, Official SpokesGay, including Louis. Janine is the Elder Fake Wife. I myself am a fake wife.
I run the plague of rats around here.
Everyone can help themselves to a drink at the bloody bar right now. I’m busy trying not to pound my head into a wall.
ING! Don’t leave forever. Please. ♥
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
NPH is one sexy mothercuddler.
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Richard:
There’s something chilling about this sort of ignorance. I sometimes have a hard time believing that it is innocent ignorance and it isn’t actually a more narrowly targeted form of Holocaust denial.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Thunk:
Blecch. Skulltopus in red on a field of black.
No, I’m not feeling nice.
Paul:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:58 pm
Just a note:
I was reading the wikipedia article on Anencephaly to see if I was missing anything, and saw the following:
Is this a common means of description? Of of those things is not like the other.
And I looked further. Dear god, the source of that phrase and the surrounding paragraph is
I’m going to go cry now.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
Caine:
AAAHHH! Too complicated. Also I have a mortal hatred of queues.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Subversion of expectations?
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Ugh.
Yes, people not being charitable enough to lilandra’s bullshit is the fucking problem.
*rolleyes*
Ing, Brownian, if either of you are reading this, I get where you are and I’m feeling 2/3 of the way there myself, but I’ll miss you if you go away forever. :( But yeah, of course do whatever you need to do. *hugs*
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Just in case:
ING! Please, don’t leave forever. ♥
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Caine:
Well then.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Second all in favour?
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:06 pm
*cough*cough*Sullivan*cough*
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Caerie:
In this case, it was innocent ignorance. Many (most?) majority-privileged people I’ve encountered aren’t aware of the details of the the Holocaust, just that “6 million Jews died.” That’s the talking point that gets hammered into heads, so it’s the only one they remember.
That specific fellow went through the stages of doubt, shock, horror, and then total immersion in the subject when I pointed out that the yellow Star of David wasn’t the only patch worn. I also told him about the White Rose, and he spent hours reading up on both. But his ignorance is far from unique – even people who are “allies” in the legitimate sense often don’t know the details.
(I am, throughout my life, continuously surprised at how little most middle- and upper-class people know about many things, including recent history. The subjects of finance and economics alone seem to be lost on a few generations.)
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
…White Rose? *goes to read*
also, Sili – who’s Sullivan?
patrickgranvold:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
Thanks all for pointing out the hierarchy of deviance, saves me a lot of time inferring it from behavior.
Now, as a newbie to elders, what does one wear to one’s first Atheist meetup? I’m as fluttery as a newborn calf in a slaughterhouse.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
…
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/rose.html
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
Your finest armor, still caked in the blood of your opponents?
Or, well, clothes could work. I suppose you could go naked, but take a towel to sit on.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
Escapism:
Wicked.
Pretty bug pictures. (Warning: Lots of dragonflies today.)
Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
I wanted to drop in a Paterno link.
I had been wondering whether college football would act as badly as the Catholic church. It seems not. While Penn State as a program acted as badly as any diocese, when it all came out, Paterno not only didn’t get promoted but huge numbers of repercussions are being handed down within NCAA football and amongst its sponsors (like Nike). Read the briefs at the links. It’s heartening that the man who played the Cardinal Ratzinger role is (albeit posthumously) actually being rejected by the institution that so revered him.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Richard, you know you should always have your towel! This is basic stuff.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Well, the Jews got their own state afterwards.
If there’d really been any “sexual deviants” rounded up in the Holocaust, why isn’t the US propping up the state of Faggotopia next to the Vatican City right now?
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Oh, and Patrick, see here about quoting. I did a little demo for you.
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:34 pm
FWIW I would consent — I think, from the privileged viewpoint of never having been confronted with the situation — for my hypothetical anencephalic baby’s organs to be used.
Although maybe I wouldn’t be so fine and rational if I really had to make the choice. I remember when both my kids were small, imagining the possibility of being asked to donate their organs, and the shockingly intense wave of GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY BABY that washed over me.
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Thirded.
I have a dream that one day a post focusing on privilege, or sexism, or the patriarchy, or some other aspect of equal rights will actually be able to stay on topic. There are more fucking derailers here than in my railroad yard (not to worry, they are all blue flagged).
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Tony:
Awe! *chucks under chin* You ain’t so bad yourself!
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Patrick:
People wear clothes to those things? O.o
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
A bib.
You really don’t wanna get baby blood on your shirt. It’s Hell to wash out.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Caine:
I actually have one in my car at all times.
/true story
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Still not enough.
When SMU (Southern Methodist) got caught cheating to get players onto the team, they lost their football team for a year under NCAA sanction. The school added a second year. For cheating on SATs and grades.
Penn State decided the football programme was more important than stopping a sexual predator and, yes, they got hit hard, but they still have a football team.
Nice priorities, NCAA.
patrickgranvold:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Well, duh. If I have my towel they’ll be happy to give me clothes. I’m one hoopy frood.
And yeah, the blockquote fail was just me moving from one site that used [] brackets to here and not using preview Silly me.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
From there:
“Didn’t do everyhing”?
“Didn’t do everyhing”?!?!
He didn’t fucking do anything, did he now?
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
The evidence would point to him actively doing his best to keep it quiet.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
This pathetic excuse for walking, talking cognitive dissonance.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
I assume your talking about NGT saying Republicans are more proscience because they spend more money on it?
Despite that they are against, Evolution, Stem cell, Global Warming
No, Niel, they do not give more money FOR science. They give money for science to give them the answers they want. You should know this.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Wrong thread
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Wrong thread I think, Ing. Unless you meant to move the convo to TET.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
Oooh! Can I have a pony, too?!
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
Sorry, we posted at the same time.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
It’s so fucking stupid that someone might get a chuckle out of addressing it, but it was a wrong thread.
Occasionally NDGT says something very very stupid. Such as his agnosticism not atheism.
pentatomid:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
Welcome to the lounge, Patrick.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Ogvorbis:
While you’re at it, I want a dragon. A silver one. A firebreather. Female preferred.
pentatomid:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Sadly, yes. I love NDGT, but sometimes he can be so frustrating. Aaaargh!
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
Frankly talking about anything else is a plus. Had a bad day.
Had to drop union action against old boss. Got to me that word is being spread to new employer that I have an attitude problem.
Union cannot protect you, even in blatant violations of the contact and of blatant abuse and exploitation. The word of the faculty is still iron and they can black ball you.
pentatomid:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
Yes. That would be so nice. I also want a Death Star, half a dosen shetland ponies and a live Elasmotherium. It… It’s just not gonna happen, is it?
patrickgranvold:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:57 pm
@pentatomid
Thanks for the welcome! I feel like I’ve said this about 8 times today, but finding FTB through PZ was a wonderful thing.
Ing, that blows. Do you mind if I ask where you work? If intrusive, consider that inquiry withdrawn. In any case, wouldn’t it be nice if there were a federal agency that dealt with such issues…. or at least, wouldn’t it be nice if it were fully staffed and could hold hearings.
I do remember my days as a grad student where I basically had to force the CWA to accept me as a union member. Paperwork snafus, bad volunteer on the campus who just messed up. I don’t think I’ve ever had so much trouble voluntarily giving away money. Bit of non sequitur, but eh.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 5:57 pm
NDN?
So something like “Oreo” and “Banana”? ” ___ on the outside, white on the inside”?
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Sili:
Say it out loud – en dee en – Indian.
No. Did you read the list? Twinkie refers to those who wish to co-opt all things Indian, along with do other stupid things, like think “Dances with Wolves” was just *wonderful!* and so on.
As for the oreo/banana/ crap, when you mean to describe someone like that who is NDN, the term is apple – red on the outside…
CT:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
@mouthyb I lost the post number…
You know what gets me? When they say stupid shit like “we couldn’t afford to go to the carribean that year, remember and then[...] blah blah, We were so poor when I was a kid”. If they are a semi friend I might respond with “yeah, my mom used to count the chicken legs in the package to make sure we would all have at least one even if she had to do without and if we were lucky we’d get a can of peaches too”
okay, white trash trolling but you know that re-definition of poor really pisses me off sometimes. But the other stuff you mentioned happens so often I really don’t even hear it any more.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:06 pm
The Louis queue is more of a writhing ball. :)
CT:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
@Josh
I was just wondering how the ever loving fuck you know I had Cherokee in my family. lol it’s funny now. Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians aamof
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
@CT If I followed that from Josh he didn’t, he was making a musical reference?
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
I was puzzled, yes. I did get that the list was very much aimed at the hipster racists, but I spent too much time trying to figure out the label. Sorry.
CT:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:12 pm
he was, but I didn’t get it and while I was typing my stilted reply I just kept thinking ‘what the hell, how did he know that’. laughing at myself.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:12 pm
Very true, Carlie. An apt descriptor, for sure. :D
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:14 pm
Sili:
That list was put together by an Apache years before the term ‘hipster’ was even coined. NDNs have disdained twinkies for fucking generations. This is not a new thing.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
I’ve been reading Bart Ehrman lately, and while he tries to label himself a “very happy agnostic”, I don’t actually see any evidence that he believes in gods any more than Dawkins do. I guess he just don’t want the stigma of the word “atheist”.
Or perhaps it’s because his wife is still a believer (I’d ask how the everloving fuck does that works, but I assume it’s a matter of not taken work home to the dinnertable – and then again, Mark Goodacre is, himself, a believer so a good knowledge of the New Testament doesn’t preclude one from being a Christian).
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
I keep a drop-cloth in my trunk. Close enough, right?
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
True. I didn’t realise that trying to pose as a Native American was actually always that popular (in the spirit guide and so on way), but I got to cringing about the depiction of “Indians” in the comic books of my childhood the other day and cringed.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
Yup.
“Playing Indian” has a long, dirty history, going back to the earliest European settlements in North America. It could be used for con-games, for spiritualist bullshit, for masking your crimes (Boston Tea Party!). It’s the same old noble savage bullshit it’s always been. It could be argued (and has been) that the US was built on it.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
IIRC, that was true back in my college days when the radicals where attempting to
co-opthelp the native Americans, and more or less were told to FOAD.Paul:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:35 pm
It was one of L. Ron Hubbard’s many bald-faced lies.
@Sili, 54
Love the reference. His writing style is…unique. I was just depressed that that was treated as a legitimate citation on that Wikipedia article. I shudder to think how frequent that sort of reference is across Wikipedia is. Honestly, referencing a Senior thesis from Liberty for anything other than something clearly noted as an opinion?
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:36 pm
I see your bird, and I raise you a story about Jim Henson taking naked pictures of Frank Oz.
Oh yeah. I used to teach private SAT prep classes when I was in grad school, and ugh. Listening to them talking about their spring break trips…
Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:42 pm
Bleeeeeeeeeeegh, I never knew pasta could be so starchy. I feel like I have a rock sitting in my stomach.
——————————————–
I must have been super-sheltered growing up, because I never ran into anyone who acted out any of the traits on that list, Caine. Maybe it was better that way – I got into enough trouble for telling off one of Mom’s friends for using the word “sp*c” when talking about Puerto Ricans.
———————————————
Thunder. This must be the opening number. About time, too. We cancelled every outdoor activity planned for today due to hearing about possible storms. Kids were probably bored out of their minds.
On top of which, two of them got caught stealing when helping clean out one of the classrooms. One stole a pencil sharpener and the other stole money – fifty cents, but still, it’s the whole stealing part that gets me, since pretty much everything left in the classroom belonged to the teacher. Their reason. “Because we wanted it.” This coming from a soon-to-be seventh grader and a soon-to-be fifth grader.
——————————————
All right, excuse me, my stomach can’t take it anymore.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
I checked the thesis, and either the claim isn’t referenced, or it’s lifted wholesale from a book. (Christian, of course.) So it’s not even a good reference to put in an encyclopædia.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:47 pm
Time to go fix (er, reheat) dinner. Spaghetti and meatballs, salad (not nuked), and garlic bread.
A. R:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
So I was reading a local (statewide) outdoor magazine in my doctor’s office today, and I had a rather pleasant surprise when I read an article by a John Ozoga (apparently a recognized expert on Whitetail deer), which contained a very good explanation of kin selection and an example of its application to his field. I was impressed.
'Tis Himself:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Where’s your sense of adventure, Nerd? There’s nothing like nuked salad to get your whatsit somethinging. Besides, if you microwave cherry tomatoes you can spend hours cleaning the oven. Everyone needs a hobby! :-)
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 6:58 pm
You play for keeps, I see.
(Is that George Lucas in the pews? Or didn’t he look that old and fat back then?)
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:02 pm
I did a bit more sniffing about for Lisak material after the blazing trolls in the Shame thread, and came across an old email interview. I found this part telling: (emphases mine)
http://mencanstoprape.blogspot.com/2011/11/predatory-rape-on-college-campuses.html
Y’know? By fighting the trolls and calling out misogynists within skepticism and atheism, not to mention getting harassment policies enacted in almost all major conferences, we’ve been doing pretty darn well.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 7:07 pm
So, remember that pro-life lady that I was arguing with earlier? Yup, I think I made her cry.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:12 pm
PTI:
Do you remember an ad campaign about littering that ran for ages with Iron Eyes Cody? (You might be too young.) The Indian, in full regalia*, looking out at a littered landscape, tear running down the face?
There was much ado about that and all this luuuuv for Iron Eyes Cody and the noble
savagesIndians. Well, “Iron Eyes Cody” was an Italian (Espera Oscar de Corti) born in Louisiana. While he wasn’t an out and out twinkie, he fought being outed as a non-Indian for ages. It came out publicly in ’96. He did do a lot of work in trying to help actual Indians, but he also made a lucrative living playing Indian.*This is a loathing point, one where twinkiness abides. Every fucking male Indian ever is always portrayed either shirtless or with the obligatory eagle feather headdress. The headdress is not traditional with most tribes and in those tribes where it was used, it was reserved for certain individuals. I can’t stand all the idiocy surrounding regalia.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Bully!
Biscuit?
mouthyb:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
If there’s any Korean food fans out there, I just posted the recipe for vegetarian Bibimbap on the Cookbook for the Pharyngula wiki.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
Oh, I looked in on the smug thread. PZ posted about some douche at rationalia posting under the nym Audley Strange. I really have to wonder if that idiot lifted that nym from here.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 7:20 pm
Sili:
Don’t mind if I do!
*urp!*
Ogvorbis:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:20 pm
]
Sure, but it comes with a can of peas. And some dried peas. And some frozen peas. And some fresh ones.
With that one, it also comes with wasabi peas.
The death star comes with peas frozen so solid they can used for a game of marbles.
No, the Louisqueue is a mass of Brownian motion.
When I was in elementary school in Arizona, if we played cowboys and Indians, the Indians were the Indians. Literally. Navajo, Hopi and Havasu. And the Hispanic kids were the vacqueros. Made for some interesting social dynamics.
Er, pasta is a starch.
Some of the families I knew in Maryland, when in high school, never, ever ate raw vegetables. Or fruit. Even lettuce was cooked.
Good.
The NAs I went to school with thought that was hilarious. He was paid well, though.
When I moved back east and people found I had gone to school with Indians, they asked, “what did they wear?” They were very let down when I answered, “The kids I knew? Jeans, cowboy boots, button down shirt. Boys and girls.”
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Caine:
Oh, booooo. I haven’t even posted on that damned thread.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Ogvorbis:
Hah! As my family says, the veterans of Brownian motion.
*russian idioms*
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:29 pm
Ogvorbis:
That’s cool, Mister likes those.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
Sili, I bow to your mastery.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
mouthyb, thank you! but what is ‘crushed red pepper’ ?
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
*durrrrrrrr*
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Sili, not that easy. I started using Audley Darke around 16 years ago, maybe longer, but Audley is a common surname in the UK and it’s not completely impossible someone else liked the whole Audley/Oddly thing.
Unlikely in the circumstances, I grant you.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
*gloats*
At least noöne decided to break out the Jurassic Bark.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Dundee:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
The problem with avocado cookies is that avocados should not be cooked. They get quite unpleasantly bitter. You can just warm them through gently if you want, but that’s it. Some cultures do use them as a sweet – but in things like ice-cream and smoothies.
Caine, I get (or kind of get) most of the twinkie list, but why “you think apples are for eating”? What else are apples for? Also, is NDN a term that non-NDNs should not use? (I think it’s quite funny. “Indian” is so wrong, so it’s poking fun.)
Cipher: big safe e-hugs for you!
ZOMGWTFBBQ?!!! What!???!! I really really really *hope*, for the sake of her other clients, that she isn’t really an evil victim-blamey arsehole, but was majorly fucking up her words in your one case. (As I’m sure you know, but others may not, one of the signs of child sexual abuse is hyper-sexualised behaviour, as the child applies what zie’s learned from the abuse to other occasions. Horrifying and sad.)
OK, now it looks like I have to go read some horror-threads. I suspect PZ of Making A Point with that “be polite” one.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
After the FreeFromThoughtBlahgs, I’m not given to assuming good faith.
Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:44 pm
I do remember that, but mostly because a) it was discussed on some TV show many years after it aired, and b) one of the Wayne’s World movies riffed on it, so to speak, towards the end. So I’ve never seen the ad itself, just by proxy.
I don’t understand the whole “show ‘em shirtless or in full regalia” thing. Well, no, maybe I can. The former is cashing in the sex appeal of a well-toned body, and the latter is cashing in on the striking visuals/power display. Total lizard brain appeal, on top of the ease of using stereotypes. Is that about right?
And you just reminded me of something that happened to me when I was in high school doing a project for history class, but that’s for another post. This is long enough for now.
*goes back to sipping soothe-the-tummy tea*
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
Alethea, “apple” is the Native version of “Oreo” or “banana.” Red on the outside, white underneath.
Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Also,: Og, I know pasta is a starch. But Christ, that fettucine left the cooking water so thick it looked kind of like the fat you skim off homemade chicken broth once it’s cooled down. Maybe Mom didn’t use enough water this one time? Whatever the reason, my stomach rebelled.
Tethys:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
Hi threadizens! *waves*
I made the mistake of checking back to the latest evil thread.
D:
I need rats…stat!
*clicks open a new rat tab*
*thinks up new, inventive, methods of vermin troll eradication*
*cute wins*
The tails! OMG look at their adorable pink tipped tails!
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Ah, a good, oldfashioned, rambling, whiny Christian. Oh, whence the trolls of yesteryear?
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
Alethea:
Apple – red on the outside, white on the inside. As far as NDN, it wouldn’t bother me if non-NDNs use it, although I’ve only ever seen NDNs use it so far.
Nutmeg:
July 26th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
I have a question for those of you who went to school in the US. The discussion of racism against against Native American* people made me wonder, what do American students learn about Native American history?
Growing up in Manitoba, we spent a decent portion of our social studies classes in 6th and 9th grade learning about the major aboriginal groups in Canada. But the lessons focused on aboriginal life prior to the arrival of Europeans, and we didn’t learn much about aboriginal history after that. The one exception was a focus on how the Metis** were involved in the founding of Manitoba, which we studied in 11th grade. Unfortunately, I don’t recall learning very much at all about residential schools – I believe that students learn more about that now.
Even with some basic education on aboriginal history, there’s still a depressing amount of racism and inequality in Canada, and conditions on northern reserves are unbelievable.
*Apologies if this isn’t the correct terminology, and please feel free to correct me. I know the preferred terms in Canada, but not in the States.
**Is there an equivalent to the Metis in the States? I’ve seen the term “haffer” here, but are there organized groups like the Metis Federation?
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
Nutmeg: I’m from a US fundie school and I got nothing, barely studied history at all and it was whitewashed. I only learned the phrase “Trail of Tears” last year.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
*Checks sense of adventure, checks the Redhead’s probable reaction, decides on the wisest course*
Puts out raw salad veggie mix, diced onion, and freshly diced Roma tomatoes.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
Very little is taught about Indians in the U.S. and most of what is taught is from the jingoistic* side or wrong.
*As in, white, patriotic Americans good, Indians bad.
mouthyb:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
Pteryxx: You get it with pizza sometimes. It’s red pepper flakes many places.
Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Nutmeg – If my recollections of high school and before are any indication, US students don’t learn very much about Native American history. The one exception I can think of would be the US history teacher I had one year in high school, but even then, I doubt we learned as much as we could have. Makes me envy my best friend, at HER high school, the teachers got to make up their courses, and one of them came up with a whole class about Crazy Horse. That wouldn’t fare well where I went, I think.
I don’t recall learning much about all the different tribes, if at all. There wasn’t much focus on their history before the the Europeans came, or after. Anything I did learn about those topics came later, when I looked around online for project info and talked to some local Native Americans (Pequot mostly, the Mohegan tribe did not really make it onto my radar, again until later, since they didn’t have a museum next to their casino). Really, when it came down to it, if I wanted to know more than what I learned in class, I had to find out on my own.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Dundee:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:17 pm
Thanks Caine. And duh! on the apple thing. Quite a bit of that list is applicable to Australian Aboriginal peoples, too, with some minor tweaks. No feathery headdresses, but the equivalent is surely the noble savage in his loincloth and body paint, one foot up and resting on his other leg, leaning on his spear and gazing into the distance. It’s quite sickening, some of the appropriation.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
oh, thanks mouthyb, I have seen that bizarre condiment.
–
Via Ophelia: Ronald Lindsay of CFI speaking out, further in Surly Amy’s series.
http://skepchick.org/2012/07/speaking-out-against-hate-directed-at-women-ronald-a-lindsay/
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
Alethea:
Oh yes, I know that pose! I saw it too many times growing up. Yes, very much noble savage.
Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
@ Sili, #26 –
Yeah, I noticed that clause, too.
Of course, you’re wrong in asserting he did nothing. He actively impeded reporting in order to retain Sandusky on the payroll.
This wasn’t, “Ooops, I forgot to fulfill my ethical obligations.”
This was, “Ooops, I figured out what my ethical obligations were and then actively did the opposite of that.”
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
Nutmeg:
I was home-schooled after the third grade, so my recollection is a bit muddled. I know things were pretty Disney-fied when I was in elementary school. I did use the same books that public schools used while I was being taught at home–as well as encyclopedias–and what I do remember was standard, cartoonish crap that focused on making relations seem as friendly as possible and tried to gloss over the oppression and genocide. If conflict was mentioned, it was twisted in a way to make it appear that Indians were responsible.
It’s hard to be sure, though, because I learned a lot directly from my grandmother (Lac Courte Oreilles Ojibwa) and mother, so if something went along with what I already knew of history in a book, I’d be less inclined to remember. It was largely the stuff I knew was wrong that stuck out. I remember the stories about the smallpox tainted blankets as far back as ten years old, but I’m quite sure that wasn’t in any of my state approved books.
College was much better. I was lucky enough to have some very progressive professors.
mouthyb:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:36 pm
Pteryxx: If you don’t like it hot, you can always just use table pepper. It should have a little bite.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
…If y’all really want to cringe, one of the Christian press books I grew up with was “Swift Arrow”.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Swift_Arrow.html?id=KMheDEpEu9UC
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
mouthyb: Oh, hot’s fine. Hot’s *wonderful*. I just didn’t know what that kind of pepper was… crushed dried chilies? dried sweet bell? But I use sriracha on almost everything.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Havelock: I shall wiggle my butt. I shall wiggle my butt here. I shall wiggle my butt there. I shall wiggle my butt everywhere!
Goofy boy.
ChasCPeterson:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
I don’t see where anybody gets off extrapolting his or her personal experience to the entire USA. Do you know how many elementary, middle, and high schools are encompassed by that kind of general assertion? And the even larger number of individual teachers (which is the real determinate, I bet)?
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:53 pm
My kids had a several-week segment on the Iroqois Confederacy and its history, which was a great deal more than I learned when I was in school.
mouthyb:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Pteryxx: Anything smoky hot will do. If you’re making that dish, I make my marinades considerably less sweet than normal, so you might want to add more brown sugar.
cicely:
July 26th, 2012 at 8:55 pm
*pulling out a fireplace match and lighting it*
-
Foodies: help?
Is there a good, easy, tasty recipe out there for home-making cherry pie filling? The Husband is a diabetic, and jonesing for cherry pie something horrible; I keep catching him sneaking dreadful little store-bought horrors into the shopping cart. He likes to bake, so I thought, maybe….
-
*gag*
If your banana has gone brown and mooshy, either make banana nut bread, or carefully tip that sucker into a hole and bury it. Try not to get any of the peel on your hands.
-
*watching Caine closely, cushions in hand, in case/when she swoons at the prospect of having 5000 rats*
-
I have the ugly suspicion that this is…wishful thinking…on the part of some people. See, if they’re all dead, then moral/ethical questions concerning their treatment (past, present & future) become moot points, and the process of Romanticised Nostalgia can procede unhindered by uncomfortable facts. Living, breathing Indians are inconvenient.
Or maybe I’m just cynically giving too little credit to my fellow human beings.
(But I doubt it.)
-
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:03 pm
Carlie:
Some questions – are what the christians did to various tribes, the children in particular being addressed? How are treaties, land grabs and massacres being addressed? How is Greasy Grass taught (also known as Little Bighorn) – is Custer still treated as a great hero? What about incidents like the mass hanging at Mankato?
I’m curious because I don’t know what kids are being taught these days, specifically, and wonder about the slant of it all.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Cicely:
True. I have met people who truly think Western Indians are extinct and it’s pure ignorance on their part.
PZ Myers:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:06 pm
I had about a week or two of Native American history taught in my middle school. Not much, and what there was of it was this kind of “Indians were our friends” and the noble savage jibber-jabber — this was near Seattle, so we got a lot of the Chief Seattle, wise counsel to the white settlers, sort of stuff.
I learned much more when I was in high school and read a lot of the more critical histories; also, I got this very confused perspective because as a moderately adventurous youth I’d often take the bus up to downtown Seattle, and hang out in the Pioneer Square area…which as those familiar with it know, is where you can find a very dignified statue of Chief Seattle, and you can also find a lot of desperately poor and homeless Native Americans on the park benches.
My family lives right near the Muckleshoot reservation, where the various White River tribes were all lumped together and confined. We had next to no exposure to native culture, other than their prosperous trade in cigarettes and fireworks.
So no, in my experience, negligible exposure to Native American culture. We got much more instruction and discussion about Japanese culture (another big thing in the Pacific Northwest), but the local aboriginals…nope. Which is a shame. That area had a lot of very diverse and very prosperous and advanced cultures, with trade networks all across the region and fairly sophisticated maritime technologies.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:07 pm
I really don’t want to say where I work save that it is a big institution and is supposed to protect from it. It’s just that with a Uni staff has so much power being the movers and shakers that getting a bad rep working for them is a death sentence apparently. And there is a bit of a “who are you going to believe…”
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 9:10 pm
I think the abortion flame war is finally over. Yay! Antichoice lady brought her kid into it to say “My mommy didn’t abort me, I’m special!”, then they both left in a huff.
I never did get a reaction to the pic of the elephant fetus. :(
PZ Myers:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:13 pm
Oh, but I think my kids got much more here in Western Minnesota. This is kind of a center of Native American academia: we offer free tuition to Native Americans, and so a significant fraction of our student body identifies as Indian, mainly the local tribes, but we also get a scattering from all across North America. Native American rituals are featured in all the university ceremonies, we host a couple of pow-wows every year, and we offer courses in Anishinaabe.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:13 pm
My history book occasionally had a point counter point side bar for various topics of possible moral ambiguity, you know the gray areas
“was the trail of tears necessary?”
“Was the Japanese Interment a good thing?”
with arguments from both sides. Because treatment of minorities is open to debate you know.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Audley:
FFS. Yeah, great argument. :near fatal eyeroll:
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
carlie:
We did too, but it was very much: Indians are awesome and peaceful* and perfect stewards of the environment and they loved the white settlers to pieces! So, “noble savage” with all the trimmings.
I also recall learning about the Trail of Tears briefly in high school, but it was incredibly glossed over (some tribes were forced to move off their ancestral land) and didn’t learn about the horrors until well into college.
*Wut.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:19 pm
We have a Danish saying (usually applied to knick-knacks): More special than valuable. Or something like that.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
Caine – literally, it was just about the tribes forming the confederacy and what they wanted and got out of it, and a little on the differences between the tribes. New York state regional history only – nothing about southern or western history. It was sympathetic towards the Native Americans, as I remember, and touched on their bad treatment by Europeans.
When I lived in Kansas there was a lot of info embedded in the local culture about the terrible treatment Native American children got, because it was the home of one of the biggest re-education centers at one point and is now a Native American university, but I don’t know how much of that seeped into the k-12 curriculum.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
Caine:
Totally. I told her that she was welcome to the debate after she had grown up a bit and that’s when she and her mom flounced.
It’s a pity. I’ve been looking for an anti-choice fight lately and that one had no meat to it.
PZ Myers:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
We learned nothing about the Trail of Tears.
We had a little bit about the Nez Perce and “I will fight no more forever.”
The Japanese internments were never mentioned, which was really weird. My wife-to-be and I both worked in the summers on small truck farms owned by Japanese families of a certain age, and it was only after I got older and read up on the internment that I realized they’d all been dispossessed and had to rebuild from the ground up after the war. Recommended reading: Neiwert’s Strawberry Days. It made me realize how screwed over those people had been.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:23 pm
Growing up, the bulk of the references to Native Americans I got in school fell into three categories:
1) Stuff about pre-Colonial time. Major emphasis on noble savages and crap.
2) Stuff about Colonial time up until the end of the wars in the 1870s. Major emphasis on savagery, Manifest Destiny, all that. Butchery at Little Bighorn! Scalping!
3) Stuff about the tribes local to the area (the Miami), including some accurate (I think?) discussions of how they’ve lived, customs, and such.
___
Fun fact: my sibling graduated from Florida State University. Which is in Tallahassee, smack in the middle of Seminole territory. And a lot was made about this. A tribal elder came to the ceremony to bless the graduates. An honor guard presented the flag of the Seminole Nation. A speech about the scholarship fund for Seminole students was given.
And then the students, in response to a highlight reel of campus showing a brief clip of a football game (specifically, shot of a man in buckskin pants, no shirt, and massive feathered headdress riding an also be-feathered speckled horse bareback) stood, starting whooping, and waving their arms. The gesture looked very odd to me (fist closed, upper arm outstretched horizontal to the ground, and a back-and-forth motion of the lower arm), so I asked my sibling about it later. It was a tomahawk chop.
Of course it was.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:25 pm
SoCal here, we had some basics but nothing much. I’ve been to “Little Big Horn” and got the “Custer was an idiot” version of that fight when I was there, but it was barely mentioned in school.
We probably got more of a focus of the Spanish and natives than most places would, as we did study the missions a fair bit. However, even there it was more “educating and clothing the poor locals” than anything.
I do remember having my junior high history teacher give us the “Europeans came and fucked things up” version, at least to a point, but I doubt we spent more than a day or two on pre-colonization North America.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:26 pm
Of corpse.
If the US can argue that Israël needs to be handed back and protected after 1888 years, then it’d be really inconvenient is there were actually any aboriginal Americans remaining, who could lay claim to North America. Better to think them extinct.
Of course, given how many ‘specimens’ have been saved away in basements and cabinets all over the place, we could of course try to bring them back – like the mammoth.
Eurrgh. I disgust myself.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 9:26 pm
PZ:
It wasn’t mentioned in any of my history classes, either! Of course, we can’t mention anything that sullies WWII, what with that being a and all that bullshit. *eyeroll*
PZ Myers:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
I’ve been to Little Big Horn. It was excellent! The guide who gave us the Park Service overview was Native American, and he told it all from their perspective…and he was hilarious. He seemed to take great joy in telling all the white people in their RVs about how Custer’s butt was roundly kicked.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
I read PZ’s “We learned nothing about the Trail of Tears.” as “We’ve learned nothing from the Trail of Tears” and wanted to agree.
The United States government perpetrated an act of genocide. And yes, that is what that was. By itself, and in combination with the rest of the government policies towards Native Americans since Colonial days.
And we don’t talk about this. We don’t acknowledge it. We downplay the significance.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:29 pm
found a neat site, full of informational photos, about the Dakota concentration camp museum at Fort Snelling:
http://nativeamericanminnesota.org/archives/51/
Tethys:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
When I went to elementary school back in the 70′s, we actually did spend a lot of time learning about the various Native Americans of the US. I still remember the map of MN and history of various place names lesson vividly.
Our city was a trick question, because it is the English version of the original Lakota name. Our school yearbook is known as the Matoskan. You can go to Matoska park, gateway to Manitou Island.
I remember a lot of the most casual racism was in the girl scouts. We could get “scout” merit badges for making objects using supposed native american techniques. I made a woven rush mat, from cattails.
cicely:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:32 pm
Welcome in, patrickgranvold!
-
But, Katherine, this play is ! Accuracy need not apply.
:)
-
+1
-
“White Rose”? I assume we aren’t referencing the House of York?
*checking Wikipedia*
Ah, yes; I remember reading about this, but didn’t remember the connection.
-
Well, technically I’ve only been to a skeptics meet-up, but it was expressly for the purpose of meeting with other atheists, but I went with my green-on-black Celt-thulu tee shirt with black jeans.
:)
-
+ ∞
And I’d rather have a dragon than a pony, too. Purple would be awesome, but silver is good, too.
-
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
Pteryxx, you’re talking about Ernest Adams, right? Yeah, as the thread wore on I became progressively less impressed with him. Being an ally means listening, and he doesn’t want to listen, he wants to preach.
Nutmeg, I barely remember learning anything about Native American history in my classes. And I was in one of the “better” school districts. In first grade we acted out the “First Thanksgiving,” with headgear made out of colored construction paper — Pilgrim hats for some (mostly white) kids, “headdresses” for some other (mostly white) kids. I’m not even sure we had any NA kids in my school.
Cicely:
The NA writer Linda Hogan has written on this theme rather eloquently, especially when it comes to the myth of how “empty” the continent supposedly was as white people moved further and further west, and how this “emptiness” is a central theme of American iconography.
Caine:
Richard:
Jesus FUCKING Christ, people are stupid and ignorant.
Richard, I’m glad that guy was willing to be educated. I agree with you that a great many middle-to-upper-class people are remarkably ignorant… including an awful lot with post-graduate degrees. This country has never suffered from an excess of intellectualism, but it’s gotten worse over the last 30 years, with the defunding of “frills” in education plus the commoditization of post-secondary education discussed in the last TET or the one before it.
Audley:
HA-ha!
(I’m sure Lilandra wouldn’t approve.)
That’s pathetic. As pathetic as linking you to a Li’l Markie song.
Hey, PZ: Here’s another Alternet concern troll. by Prof. James Rohrer. There is a response here that mentions you by name.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Did I miss a joke?
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
Custer was hardly the sharpest crayon around, however, his being a bad strategist is not the slant given in most history books.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
Ing:
No. That was after you said you were leaving in the smug thread.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
I have a fascinating history teacher…
We spend a great deal of time talking about a topic– give us several perspectives, then set us free to write a research paper. It’s quite fun.
Primary sources required.
In the beginning of the year, we spent a great deal of time talking about the British, Spanish, and French colonial empires, and how they treated the Indians. The British displaced, the Spanish conquered and enslaved, and the French traded (and mingled).
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Of course it was.
PZ Myers:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Uh-oh. Minnesota’s Indian War is an ugly topic — a lot of abuse of the Dakota, with hot spurts of ugly violence on both sides, culminating in a mass execution, with the dead bodies being shipped off to medical/scientific institutions for dissection and display.
Not a story for the squeamish. Or those easily aroused by injustice.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Also, how post-glacial rebound caused the American Revolution.
I’m not joking.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Not like that, Sili. The upper arm stayed away from the chest, going from sticking up to being horizontal.
It is even on YouTube. Complete with the “war chant.”
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Ms Daisy Cutter: yeah, I was venting about Ernest Adams, and I’m still so disgusted I can’t go back to that thread. I can’t believe *Ophelia* is happy with his forced-real-name suggestion, and his reply to everyone was this:
right, never mind that forced outing is an absolute deal-breaker for many of the people you’re supposedly helping, dude.
*goes aside to partly-metaphorically hurl*
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:39 pm
Daisy:
That wasn’t me, it was Caerie.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Srsly. I didn’t mean to harp on about this, but this false claim was nicely repeated in “A land without people, for people without a land.”
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Yeah I’m done with everything for a while, except maybe TET. Like Brownian said, I’m so sick of dealing with slyme and frankly every single fucking Septic
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
I have no idea if that football chant is authentic Seminole. Quite frankly, I don’t know if which would be worse.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Tethys:
Oh, same here. The name of my city is an English bastardization of the Dutch bastardization of a Mohawk term meaning “near the pine trees”. I didn’t learn that in school, though– all we learned in school was that the settlement that would become my hometown was burnt to the ground by the French and Mohawk in 16*mumble mumble*. Except for that, there were no one but Dutch settlers in this area, no siree!
Caerie, Rage Flail:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:42 pm
Esteleth:
I think a big part of that is because to admit to the full force of that atrocity would make it all too easy to then have to look at all of the stuff they did in the 20th century and this one. In many ways, the genocide continues. It’s just a little subtler. Easier to ignore the whole issue.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:42 pm
I was thinking more of the sentiment.
I must have seen that film at school, and I don’t recall caring for it. But damn, if the memory hasn’t stayed with me.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
QFT.
I once got in an argument with some earnest do-gooder about this. His response? To ask me if I’m Native (I am not, not even a little bit).
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 9:44 pm
I fucking love you so hard right now. :D
And time for bed!
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:45 pm
Coulda been worse.Coulda been kittens.
Nutmeg:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:47 pm
Thanks for all the interesting perspectives. It seems like there’s a lot of variation in how much people learned about Native American history, but it generally varies from nothing at all to mediocre.
I hadn’t thought about it in detail before now, but there are some very large gaps in what I learned at school. What we learned about aboriginal history pretty much stopped after ~1800, and we switched to learning about the different waves of immigration. (Which is also a valuable topic in Canadian history.) But we never learned very much about the treaties, and that’s something I should probably educate myself about some more.
Other Canadians – what did you learn about? I wonder if we learned more than average about aboriginal history in Manitoba, because we have a high proportion of First Nations and Metis people here.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:47 pm
PZ:
I asked about the mass hanging in Mankato upthread, because I don’t know whether that is being taught anywhere (I don’t mean university) and what the slant is, if it’s being taught.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
The Seventies, duh.
When US kids were taught the metric system, and the president put solar panels on the White House.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Caine,
Audley
Basically. That’s what I got in Michigan. Very rarely mentioned, glossed over and focused on the American settlers and not on the Native Americans.
In AZ it was so much worse. So, so much worse. I seriously can’t even begin to describe it. They didn’t bother with the “noble savages”. We were taught racism and lies about what happened and about Native Americans.
I learned about the Trail of Tears in college from a Native American student. The reaction from everyone in the class, including the teacher, was shock or disbelief. The teacher was asking her questions like “when did this happen?”. There were a couple of dudebro assholes who were talking shit after class calling the student a liar.
Most, if not all my education, as incomplete as it is, has been from here.
The only class I can think of that was honest about the bloody past was a history class in high school. That class was informative on the Holocaust (not just Jews were murdered, talked about Hitler’s strategies), America’s Japanese interment camps, religious conquest with Catholics and Apartheid. Nothing about what we did to the Native Americans though.
There was also a science teacher that straight up said something like “I have to say this. Some people believe, without actual evidence, that God made the world and Adam and Eve. The end. Go ask your parents about religion. I’m here to teach you science so for the creation theory, we’re going to watch the Lion, the Witch and Wardrobe.” We watched the movie. Then he taught us science. It was awesome. The only two classes I can think of that did well. I know the other science teachers were creationists. That’s really sad. I wonder if those two awesome teachers are even still employed.
(Yes, all anecdotal but someone asked for our experiences and that’s what we are talking about)
——-
My step-father is an apple. He’s white but claims native. He did when he was in prison and talks about being 1/16th…something. I forget. I’ve tried talking to him about it but he’s a brick wall. He doesn’t get it. He’s also a fundie and thinks the apocalypse is coming soon. He says he’ll take us all up in the hills of Oklahoma where he grew up to hunt and survive when the end of the world happens. I can’t get through to him. There’s just no point in trying to talk to him about this stuff.
—————
I get the Oreo and an apple reference but I’ve never heard of banana. What does that apply to?
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:50 pm
Esteleth:
Well, why would you possibly care if you weren’t NDN?
Unfortunately, that’s the attitude of whole lot of people.
nonny:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120725150215.htm
Sorry if you’ve seen this before but it seemed like the kind of study some of you might be interested in.
The Flailing Rage Monkey: Caerie:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
Okay, I’ve switched my nym around to hopefully be less prone to getting confused with Caine without being now confused with a different person entirely.
…at least I hope not.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
Benjamin Geiger is back.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
So nice to discover that Betteridge’s Law actually has a name. Makes it much easier to be snarky.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
JAL, “banana” is the Asian equivalent.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Dundee:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
Empty land, eh? That’s a familiar one. See “Terra Nullius” in Australia.
We had a “20 years since Mabo” celebration at work recently.
ibyea:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
@Esteleth
Another way it is minimized is by putting Andrew Jackson in the $20 bill. That guy was a genocidal maniac. He doesn’t deserve to be honored in any way.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
JAL:
No, your step-father is a twinkie. An apple is an NDN who would rather be white, so acts white, talks white, tries to emulate white in every way.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
Caine – do you mind if I send you an email? I think I still have it on an old group mailing somewhere.
The Flailing Rage Monkey: Caerie:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
JAL:
Someone who is Asian, but identifies with white culture and concerns over their own community.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
I can think of worse people to be confused with.
Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
ibeya:
Trufax.
The Flailing Rage Monkey: Caerie:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Sili, I agree, but I’d hate for Caine to get saddled with some dumb think I said!
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
Is that good or bad? I couldn’t access his link.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
Caerie:
You can count me among the non-confused, if that makes you feel better.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Daisy:
As long as he doesn’t attempt to weigh in on any of the feminism threads here.
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Likewise – from here, other forum communities, individual folks’ blogs that get passed around on significant dates, Wikipedia and Cracked. I think I know about sundown towns due to a comment thread on Crommunist’s, most of what I know about Native American atrocities comes from two online friends and Stephanie Zvan, and the Japanese internment camps info comes from TVTropes, George Takei, and my anime mentor.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Carlie:
No, not at all! If you don’t have it, you can find my e-address at http://caine.zenfolio.com/
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:00 pm
Caine
Oh, derp. That was stupid of me sorry. He’s a twinkie. I even went to your link about it. >.<
Ohhh, that’s a duh moment. Thanks everyone.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
Caerie:
Pffft, I’m not worried about that! You aren’t getting proper credit for a lot of things you do say, though, and that bothers me.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:02 pm
Pteryxx, I left another reply to Adams. I suspect I will be scolded for my “tone.”
Sorry, Caine (and Caerie). I usually don’t misread one person’s name for another, but it’s getting late here.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:04 pm
Also, Lee Brimmicombe-Wood is such an insufferable tone troll. Yes, because it plays into existing harmful tropes that we should get rid of.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:06 pm
I just saw the link for sundown towns in a recent thread here. You might have been the person who linked it. That’s some eye opening shit. Made me think back on my town and how we never had more than one black family living there and they quickly moved. The longest they lasted was a school year. My town isn’t on the site though it probably should be. I was young and didn’t pay attention. I wish I had. =(
John Morales:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:08 pm
Sili (previous page),
Comments here aren’t numbered in the source, but rather are an numbered list that your browser creates on the fly.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:08 pm
Huh, I’m recalling LB-W as a White Hat. Am I mixing up nyms?
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
Thanks Ms Daisy Cutter – a bunch of folks weighed in on anonymity, and if I try to answer a wave of citations and quotes and examples and outrage rises behind my eyes so I can’t get any coherent thoughts out. One of ‘em is “you’re being cavalier with my personal safety” from Schroedinger’s Rapist, IIRC. danah boyd said it all better than I could anyway, with cites.
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
JAL, Pt’xx:
What’s a sundown town?
(/clueless)
Pteryxx:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:13 pm
thunk: sundown towns were whites-only communities kept segregated by the threat of force. the name comes from “nigger, don’t let the sun set on you in [xxx]“.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town
List of sundown towns:
http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/content.php?file=sundowntowns-whitemap.html
…heck, in searching I found this:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/27/989124/-Anti-racism-DoJ-sues-modern-day-sundown-town-in-Wisconsin
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
Thunk:
Ever heard of a search engine? A sundown town is one that had a rule that niggers had best be off the street before or by sundown.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sundown+town
PZ Myers:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:15 pm
Here’s a list of Minnesota sundown towns. You might be living in one now.
Also, here’s Seattle: didn’t exclude blacks, but did kick out Native Americans and Asians.
Sili:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:15 pm
HIVEMIIIIINNNNNNND!!!
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:18 pm
Caine, Sili:
Herp-a-derp.
The internet is at my fingertips! Why am I asking you?
cicely:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:18 pm
No peas, of any sort at all, with my dragon, pls. All of my porcupines are already stuffed and ready to freeze.
-
I recall it vividly. He was the best Iron Eyes Cody who was ever Iron Eyes Cody. </obscure literary reference>
I also recall my surprise when I found out that he was Italian (?), and not Native American.
-
In SoCal, where I did elementary school (in the ’60s) there was a unit covering the Native American/Mission era. Not particularly in-depth.
In OK, in my high school years (early/mid ’70s) there was some coverage in the compulsory Oklahoma History semester-long class; but my teacher was primarily a coach, and just assigned chapters, then retired to the back of the room to make X’s and O’s on a standalone chalkboard with the football guys.
I got rather more exposure at college; but then, that was in Tahlequah, which may have a bearing.
In American History in general (in the public school system), we had the full Manifest Destiny treatment. Nothing pre-colonial at all, and no differentiation between Native American peoples. Well, not until you hit Aztec territory, anyway.
Most of my admittedly inadequate knowledge on these and related subjects has been from extracurricular reading on my part.
-
Indeed. Needless to say, not dwelt upon in
Manifest DestinyAmerican History class.-
thunk, martian atmosphere weaksauce:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
Thanks Pt’xx.
Although my town was not listed on there, many other towns nearby were.
It’s still a very white-dominated community in this area.
Also has a strong Teaturd contingent.
kristinc, ~ringy dingy~:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
I have freakin’ had it with Jo-Ann “Fabrics”. There was once a time in the misty past when I could actually shop there for, y’know, fabric for making clothes, but they’ve whittled down the fabric selection until all that’s left is overpriced designer quilting prints, overpriced boring “special occasion” fabrics and overpriced ugly “silky prints” and denim. Blargh! Oh, but of course they have plenty of room in the store for two aisles of greeting cards, an aisle of cheap dorm room essentials, and innumerable aisles of ugly fall wreaths, Cricut machines, stinky scented candles, and no-sew tote projects.
Going to stick to eBay and rummage sales from now on and try to find cool vintage fabrics from back when people actually bought suitable types of material to sew useful things. *cranky*
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:25 pm
I don’t know about ND, probably the whole state was Sundown. I know a law was passed in 1890 prohibiting interracial marriage.
feralboy12:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:25 pm
My town was like that; maybe one family out of 14,000 people. It was a common trope around town that we couldn’t be racist, because they aren’t here. How could we be racist?
And only a few weeks ago I learned something I never knew before: the state of Oregon had one documented lynching (should probably emphasize documented here) in its history: in 1902 a man was shot twice and hung from what was then known as the 7th street bridge in Marshfield (now Coos Bay).
The swampy area that the bridge spanned was later drained and is now known as Golden Field. When I was six years old I lived for a year in a house overlooking the site. I learned that fact from Wikipedia a mere 47 years later.
Audley Z. Darkheart (carrying the Official SpokesFetus):
July 26th, 2012 at 10:42 pm
Not in bed. Too hot.
But HOLY FUCKING SHIT, SUNDOWN TOWNS STILL EXIST.
Lynchburg, OH
I’m feeling a little naïve now. :-/
ibyea:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
@cicely
It was dwelt upon in my ap history class, and yeah, I was appalled by that guy. Everytime I was wondering “this guy is considered an American hero?!”. Plus, I also remember him as the guy who destroyed the US economy.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Jesus, I’ve had enough of Kalliope in the smug thread. “I’m behind you guys 100%, except I’m not!” Yeesh.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
@Caine
To be fair apparently we were triggering hir with using insults and all.
theophontes (坏蛋):
July 26th, 2012 at 11:09 pm
@ David Marjanović
I have posted off a letter of complaint…
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:10 pm
That thread is making me so goddamn sad.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:11 pm
I just had to look up Andrew Jackson to understand everyone’s comments on him.
o.O
Holy fucking shit I can’t believe I didn’t know that before. Fuck him.
Caine, Uppity, Annoying and Proud of It:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:14 pm
Ing:
Yeah. Amazing how that didn’t seem to bother K before, in other threads. The most I can say about this latest bit of reasoning is that if nasty words hurt that bad, this isn’t the place for you.
Tethys:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Caine
Once upon a time, I lived in a place named Grey Cloud Island.* It was where Medicine Bottle’s village was located at one time. My former property is also an archaeological site. (Campground and five 1800-2000yo grave mounds) There is a historic lime kiln and several different village sites near-by.
Every year a local historian would bring a tour group through.
(all-ages usually 20 to 30 people)
He was very pro-native, and covered the long native history of the area from glaciers melting, to the horrible treatment they received at the hands of the government, to the mass execution.
*Mostly factual article but Grey Cloud Thunderbirds?!
It isn’t addressing the massacre per se, but it shows there are still plenty of stupid people “honoring” NAs.
**do note that Grey Cloud Elementary is located in Cottage Grove
.*gesture of aversion* aka a microcosm of all that is bad about white bread suburbia.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:27 pm
I keep getting ignored in the smug thread. I think I’m not uncivil enough. Oh well.
desigirl:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:27 pm
Thanks to Daisy Cutter for directions.
http://www.facebook.com/HuntLaxmanJohnson/posts/393236927404071
One Christian(a stupid juvenile) stepped on a piece of rock (Hindu icon – Lingam – Lord Shiva) and posted the pic on Facebook ( the photo is currently not there – so this might be fake/real blasphemy – I just don’t feel any difference).
And there is a hunt page up on Facebook, his house vandalized, family on run .
The people who spew out poison on the hunt page all seem very young/educated :( still filled with such pathetic zealot.
The page has been reported by many people, but still is up and running.
My questions -
1. What should be the atheist/skeptics’ concern in inter-religious malice, especially when it involves young minds? Should I be bothered at all?
2. Is there any place where I can find atheist arguments countering Hindu supremacy – logically I shouldn’t need one – I don’t see any evidence for that – and all the idiots’ arguments seem complete BS. But still, my ignorance defies my confidence to call it out.
Like – I keep seeing wonderful memes mocking “Christian love” – which is super good/helpful, since that is kind of pivotal .
As for Hinduism – the talk is more about “Supremacy”(Seriously!), “Maths-Science-Civilization-Ancient – non-destroyable- Huge” etc.
——
“When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous.” ~ Albert Einstein
“The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions.” ~ Dr. Albert Schweizer
—–
Did these guys really tell that? I guess, the burden of proof lies with the person quoting them, but I’m scared to even ask, what if it was true.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
Oh, Richard! I don’t mean to ignore you. Maybe it’s just that you’re not shouty enough to rise above the HATEFUL DIN.
But really, your comments are very happy-making. Moar of that kind of thing pleez.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:37 pm
Josh: didn’t mean you :) meant the people complaining that no one’s being civil to them :P
But thanks.
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:39 pm
(The Nac Mac Feegle comment was just a throwaway, really. But I think you should paint yourself blue and run around in a kilt anyway.)
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
Hehehe:)
I shouldn’t say this (which of course means I’m going to, damn the consequences), but nothing irritates me more than a super-thick Scottish accent. I cannot for the life of me understand a single word of it; it doesn’t even sound like English to my ears. Is it just my parochial USIAN-ness, or is this hard to parse for others?
Hekuni Cat, MQG:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:47 pm
cicely – *return pouncehug*
Beatrice, cipher, Josh, and anyone else who wants or needs one – *hugs*
Patrick, welcome to TET!
Caine:
QFT! Thank you to all of you who have been sharing your stories across so many threads. I can only salute your courage and fortitude and stand and fight by your side.
This. Please stay.
I’m only caught up (more or less) to 500, but the rest must wait until tomorrow.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
I should add that certain very Deep South American accents are just as un-parseable to me. There are certain dialects that are honest-to-god nothing but mumbled streams of undifferentiated vowel-based phonemes with no consonants and no (to me) identifiable vocal stresses that would indicate case, part of speech, question, declarative statement. . anything. I’ve actually had to end phone conversations at work from time to time because I literally could not understand a word of what the person was trying to say (and I’m not untraveled in the US or un-used to regional accents).
Richard Austin:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
Josh:
I know what you mean. I had a coworker who was from India at my last company – well, many of them, actually. I had no problems understanding any of them face to face. However, this one guy had an accent or method of speaking that, at least to me, became indecipherable over the phone. I spent half the time trying to guess what he was saying by others’ replies (luckily, I very rarely worked with him). I know at least one other person had the same problem, but it was only with him.
I don’t have any problem with Scots accents, but I also grew up going to Irish faires every year and got exposed to many brogues.
Cipher, OM, Sweetness and Fluff:
July 26th, 2012 at 11:59 pm
Oh hell.
Random fit of depersonalization.
What the hell.
rowanvt:
July 27th, 2012 at 12:03 am
I’m currently in a ‘discussion’ with a christian on my sil’s facebook page regarding gay marriage.
It’s like playing Bingo.
So far I’ve had “Some of my best friends are gay”, “You can’t claim to be tolerant if you don’t tolerate *everything*”, “It doesn’t hurt gays to not be able to marry”, “They’ll *make* churches marry gays”, and “What about incest”
That’s just about a BINGO, right?
Richard Austin:
July 27th, 2012 at 12:09 am
rowanvt: almost. You didn’t get the polygamy spot. But we can give you a freebie.
rowanvt:
July 27th, 2012 at 12:13 am
Well, I cut him off at the pass and said that any more slippery slopes and false equivalencies are signs of dishonest arguing. This should prevent the slide to polygamy (which I’m actually relatively okay with except for the severe legal headaches it would cause with regards to child custody/alimony and whatnot) and eventually bestiality/pedophilia that inevitably occurs.
Richard Austin:
July 27th, 2012 at 12:29 am
Semi-related, but years ago (well before I started posting here), a friend and coworker of mine sent an email message saying, “Can you help? You’re better at this than me,” and included a link.
The site was a place where a few people could put up essays on topics and discuss them. The community was small but diverse: the site was founded by a couple of brothers, one of whom is more liberal and the other is more fundamentalist. She had posted a gay marriage essay (I think this is back in the early days before Prop 8 passed here) and was being hit by the typical “but but but polygamy/bestiality/whatever!” arguments.
The notion that there’s nothing inherenly wrong with polyamory except for legal complications (which can be resolved but take effort to do so) finally got across to almost all of them, which surprised me. I wasn’t expecting it to be that simple. I know that the first person who posted “well, you’d have to support polygamy then!” at me was completely shocked by my reply of, “of course. why wouldn’t we? It’s just more involved to work out the details.”
I did think it funny when my friend later said, after reading through everything, that my style was “half scorched earth and half Socrates.”
Dalillama, Schmott Guy:
July 27th, 2012 at 12:31 am
@Josh 209
Yeah, I’ve had that same experience
@ education on racial issues
I honestly can’t remember what I learned in school about NAs beyond ‘not much.’ I read a lot on my own, and my parents also helped (dad worked with the Klamath tribe on language conservation) and I picked up a fair amount of reasonably accurate information that was not mentioned in the standard curriculum in Eugene, Oregon.
theophontes (坏蛋):
July 27th, 2012 at 1:16 am
@ Josh
{Enter theophontes dressed in kilt. Reads from script in loud and broad Scottish accent:}
/[Yeah, I'm a mean bully]
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 27th, 2012 at 1:23 am
I love you Theo, but. . blech. Yick.
Ing: Praise The Lord And Pass the Ammunition:
July 27th, 2012 at 1:33 am
Ugh, sorry everyone but frankly checking in on shit here and posting has just become a time sink. Not fun, not productive, not rewarding. Might check TET from time to time but unless I show horrible self control I think I’ve learned my lesson about arguing on the internet.
theophontes (坏蛋):
July 27th, 2012 at 1:34 am
@ Josh
Dang, you make it hard to be Truly Ebil ™ !
{*hugs* back}
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
July 27th, 2012 at 1:35 am
Ironic, hipster restaurant patronage:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/07/26/a-chick-fil-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-413339
See, it’s funny and meta to spend money at anti-gay businesses. It doesn’t hurt anyone. Except maybe your budget for PBR accessories.
Beatrice:
July 27th, 2012 at 2:36 am
Ing,
For what it’s worth (from a newbie), I’m sorry to hear you are leaving.
I hope to see you on TET.
*hugs* (if you want them)
rorschach:
July 27th, 2012 at 3:19 am
Cool ! Suicide bomber Termites
drbunsen, le savant fous:
July 27th, 2012 at 3:23 am
Fruit bats on the wing, in July. Normally don’t see them until October-ish.
Weather is all screwed up, yo.
Gen, Uppity Ingrate.:
July 27th, 2012 at 3:53 am
*hugs* to Ing, if’n you want them.
drbunsen, le savant fous:
July 27th, 2012 at 4:17 am
I’ve been having a stresstastic anxiety attack for the last couple of days, and I woke up today, thankfully without that, but with a definite lassitude and depression, kind of like a hangover from the previous stressiness. Anyone else ever get that?
—-
What now? /searches
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_guide
Traditionally, within the spiritualist churches, spirit guides were often stereotyped ethnically, with Native Americans, Chinese or Egyptians being popular for their perceived ancient wisdom.
.
Dollars to donuts.
.
/thinks about modern Australian aboriginal/settler relations.
This would explain a lot. There seems to be a persistent belief here that any atrocities or land theft that occurred (if acknowledged at all) happened in the distant past and we should all be able to hold hands and just get along. Resentment towards aboriginal people for having the gall to exist would explain some of the uglier manifestations of hatred. – and it would be well in line with the awful silence in high school education up until recently (Once upon a time, noble savages, then convicts! sheep! gold!)
.
+elebenty!
.
.
Cipher:
Aw jeez :( Are you okay?
.
Richard Austin:
♥ ♥ ♥
drbunsen, le savant fous:
July 27th, 2012 at 4:23 am
Also, it’s been raining like a boss here lately. The yard between my hut and the main house is a swamp – there are puddles of standing, muddy water where once was grass. And storms upset my kitty :(
Pteryxx:
July 27th, 2012 at 4:49 am
drbunsen, definitely… I even call them panic-attack hangovers. It’s about the same level of thrashed as physically working hard all day (at something soul-crushing and unrewarding, to boot).
David Marjanović:
July 27th, 2012 at 5:14 am
O hai!
Comparison between countries: “Income inequality alone explained 74% of the variance in murder rates and half of the aggravated assaults”!
*hugs & squeezes for Ing* Haven’t caught up on what happened.
kthxbai
Pteryxx:
July 27th, 2012 at 5:35 am
David M: But what about social capital?
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 27th, 2012 at 5:37 am
thunk:
Yeah, well I have an immortal hatred of “R’s”. So there :P
****
patrick:
Please see our “Adam & Eve” line of apparel in the study. We promise you’ll find your shade of green in just the right size leaf. No member of the Horde ever leafs empty handed.
****
Caine @17:
I wonder why slightly more detailed explanations for the allowed tags aren’t included above the comment box. It seems there are always people who don’t know how to use them (and thankfully there are often regulars around who can be of assistance as you’ve done).
****
‘Tis:
I just read what you wrote in the SMUG thread (comment 30) and you rock! Something like that could easily be on a plaque, or flyer or poster. It serves to show what you stand for and *why* you stand for it. It serves as an unspoken challenge for others to step forward and attempt to reach that level (I don’t mean to imply that you’re perfect here; you’ll have to settle for 96% perfect, sorry; any more and we’ll have to call you God…hmm come to think of it I think you’d do a helluva lot better job than Yahwalla).
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa):
July 27th, 2012 at 6:00 am
Ms Daisy Cutter: I gave Mr Geiger my fondest regards. Couldn’t resist.
carlie, who has nice reading comprehension:
July 27th, 2012 at 6:15 am
Hugs, Ing. I understand the need to not send energy down the sinkhole. Please check in here sometimes if you like?
So you don’t find this vortex of Scottish charm delightful, then? :)
One bit of nice news: my friends are getting maaaaaaaarrried today! And *squee* I’m performing the ceremony! I got all internet-ordained up last year to be ready for it. I really hope I don’t screw anything up. And it’s an outdoor wedding and it’s been rainy since last week for the first time all summer, so we’ll see how that goes.
Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB]:
July 27th, 2012 at 6:16 am
Richard:
I have you beat!
I keep an overnight bag in my car for all those nights of no sex at other peoples’ houses I get.
(I wonder if I could get laid on For Fuck’s Sake Isle…?
****
Sili:
There are so many people who still believe Joe Paterno did what was necessary. If one’s reaction isn’t “Joe Paterno didn’t fucking do *anything* [to stop Jerry Sandusky]!” their moral core is on shaky ground.
****
Sili (from your link @28):
Someone is wearing his privilege on his sleeve. Since when is it anyone else’s job to “expand people’s horizons”? Did she sign up to be a hero? Was “serving as a strong role model for young lesbians” in her job description?
Moreover, Andrew doesn’t know a damned thing about the life of Ms Ride. There could have been extremely important reasons she chose to remain closeted.
Get off your fucking high horse Cap’n Douche!
Only if I can ride on Appa and learn waterbending.
****
Avatar lovers,
Which bending powers would you like to have?
****
carlie:
writhing balls tend to come in pairs. Where is the other one?
:::Hey Louis you may want to speed that line up, otherwise your writhing ball(s?) might turn blue:::
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:
July 27th, 2012 at 6:26 am
HI there
Let’s see if I get portcullised again ;)
Yes, please
Cipher
*big hugs*
Who the fuck allows those people to work as therapists?
++++
This is what Indians look like in Germany
Wow, that’s later than me O.O
The goal of British Empire education: a class* of people British in everything except skin colour
*for the native upper and middle-classes who served as civil servants and administrators to handle the nasty darkies so the good white people wouldn’t “go native”
+++
Audley
Fuck her
It’s one thing to be pro-choice. I’m vehemently so and I would probably only think once about having an abortion should I become pregnant again. But to draw your kids into it and make them feel unsafe and threatened is fucking bordering on child abuse.
I didn’t abort my children because I wanted them, they are in this world because I actively chose them to be. How fucking hard must it be for “pro-lifer” kids if they grow up thinking “if mummy weren’t against abortion she’d kill me” (since they don’t really understand yet that they weren’t “they” as an embryo anyway.)
Josh
I’ll tell Mr. and he’ll be relived that actual native speakers don’t understand it either.
Me luves it, just a wee biddy strainge.
In exchange I’ll offer that I have difficulties with some American accents. Not ’cause I don’t understand them, but ’cause they make my ears bleed. (Personal taste, no other judgement implied)
Ing
We’re here eagerly waiting to hear from you
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Dundee:
July 27th, 2012 at 6:31 am
Ooh, look: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2681
Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan:
July 27th, 2012 at 6:55 am
I wasn’t very surprised at some of the names listed in CT as possible sundown towns. There are some places where it’s so white it’s scary. Orange was the only one that got me, as I’m sure I’ve seen some black people living in that area.
————————————————–
Come back when you’re ready Ing. There’ll be a spot for you.
—————————————————
A hearty “Screw off!” to the anti-abortion lady. Dragging your own kid into it is just a horrible move.
—————————————————
Some therapist. We’re sure some of these aren’t actually sentient clods of dirt?
ChasCPeterson:
July 27th, 2012 at 6:57 am
bye Ing
PZ Myers:
July 27th, 2012 at 7:17 am
NEW THREAD!