I did not listen to the Elon Musk-creepy Donald Trump love fest. I did not want to waste two hours of my life listening to two egomaniacs fawning over each other. Apart from the disastrous start in which technical glitches delayed the start by 50 minutes, the reviews of the subsequent content have not been not good, justifying my decision.
Some of the most scathing comments have been about their discussion on climate change, where creepy Trump said we should drill for more oil, that rising sea levels will provide the benefit of more ocean front property (what??), and wondered why we are not talking about ‘nuclear warming’ (whatever the hell that is), while Musk seemed to think the only reason to going electric is because fossil fuels will eventually run out.
Trump and Musk’s discussion on the climate crisis, therefore, “spelunked down into entirely new levels of stupidity”, according to Bill McKibben, a veteran climate activist and co-founder of 350.org. McKibben wrote it was “the dumbest climate conversation of all time”.
“The damaging impacts of climate change, and in particular from more extreme weather events, such as wildfires, floods, heatwaves, more intense hurricanes, are actually in many respects exceeding the predictions made just a decade ago,” said Michael Mann, a leading climate scientist and author. “It is sad that Elon Musk has become a climate change denier, but that’s what he is. He’s literally denying what the science has to say here.”
Mann said that if CO2 levels get so high breathing becomes difficult, then the impacts of the climate crisis “will be so devastating as to have already caused societal collapse. It’s actually Elon’s ill-informed and ill-premised statements that are causing headaches and nausea.”
Mann added that Trump’s statement that sea level rise will lead to more oceanfront property “does not betray a lack of understanding of climate physics. It betrays a lack of understanding of grade school geometry.”
During his election campaigning, Trump has routinely denigrated electric vehicles but has recently changed his stance towards them after an endorsement from Musk, who previously described himself as a moderate Democrat.
It is interesting how people like Elon Musk and Alan Dershowitz who seem to me to be obviously right wing in their attitudes, keep insisting that they are Democrats, when all the evidence suggests that they feel more comfortable with Republicans Republican policies.
Stephen Colbert had some thoughts about the Musk-creepy Trump exchange and also says that experts doubt Musk’s claim the delayed start was due to a DDOS attack.
Desi Lydic also discussed the weird interview and creepy Trump’s creepy comment about Kamala Harris.
Seth Meyers also weighed in.
Mann added that Trump’s statement that sea level rise will lead to more oceanfront property “does not betray a lack of understanding of climate physics. It betrays a lack of understanding of grade school geometry.”
True, but at the same time, Trump’s statement is kind of correct, in the sense that rising sea-levels will force people and businesses to flee from land that’s lost all of its previous value; which real-estate speculators and vulture-capitalists will then be able to snap up at fire-sale prices and convert into posh “oceanfront property” resorts. So there will be less mileage of coast overall, but — in the eyes of people like Trump at least — there will be much more coast available to build lucrative resorts on.
Perhaps they think the waters will rise, but will also politely bend around existing properties so as not to inundate them.
One could always move a lot of land around in order to control which areas get inundated by rising seas first. It would be really really expensive, to the point where probably no one would bother, but one *could*. It also wouldn’t help the existing buildings much unless you moved (or raised) those too.
Raging Bee @ 1
This kind of disaster capitalism is what is retroactivelly called “The Jackpot” in the SF novels by William Gibson.
The global population lost several billion people, but the 1% got to own 98% of anything.
This reminds me of HBomberguy’s classic and hilarious response to climate change denial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLqXkYrdmjY).
He shows a clip of a Ben Shapiro lecture, presumably to college students, where Shapiro says “Let’s say that ocean levels rise five feet, make it even ten feet. Don’t you think that people whose houses were on the shore wouldn’t just sell them and move?”
HBomberguy was so furious that he chopped a hole in the wall of his set with an axe, put his face in the hole from behind the wall, and screamed “SELL THEM TO WHO, BEN? AQUAMAN?”
It is just laugh-out-loud funny.
The rest of the video is real good too, but of course probably didn’t change emotionally-invested climate-deniers’ minds.
@Raging Bee
I think that’s exactly what he meant. It’s not that there’ll be more oceanfront property, it’s that there’ll be more newly available oceanfront property, providing lots of investment opportunities for greedy shits like himself.
The fact that some people would lose everything simply doesn’t figure into his thinking at all.
more ocean front property? that’s the plot of Superman 1.
i imagine trump/musk as incompetent Lex Luthor wannabes.
Remember, also, that Trump is the guy whose son-in-law openly talked about building a casino-resort complex on the Gaza coast (after all the, er, what’s their latest euphemism, “unhumans” were herded off the land, of course). This is how that whole family sees environmental issues.
A remarkable claim.
Care to provide a citation?
@John Morales,
I hope the Guardian is authoritative enough for you:
“Gaza’s waterfront property could be very valuable … if people would focus on building up livelihoods,” Kushner told his interviewer, the faculty chair of the Middle East Initiative, Prof Tarek Masoud.
Jared Kushner does not mention casinos, but I wouldn’t rule it out with him. But casinos or just luxury apartments for the 1%, does it matter? To these people, the crisis in Gaza is just another opportunity to make money out of the suffering of others.
M’thew, where’s their latest euphemism, “unhumans”?
That’s the claim.
You do see what I actually quoted, and about which I responded, no?
—
It’s not like I don’t know what’s going on, it’s that I dislike misinformation.
John: Look up the recently-published book by the same name. It’s written by Republicans, it uses that epithet to describe nearly EVERYONE who disagrees with their hypercapitalist agenda (sort of like “Communist,” but even more dehumanizing), and it’s been pretty obvious for a long time that this is indeed how Republicans, and their supporting interest-groups, see the rest of us.
And please don’t pretend you’re not aware of how that same coalition sees Palestinians, and Muslims in general; or of how they very explicitly spoke of Palestinians both before and after last October’s attack (but especially after). In Republicans’ eyes, and in Israeli setters’ and Likudniks’ eyes, yes, they’re all “unhumans.”
So…anyway…go ahead and show us this “misinformation” you’re claiming…?
M’thew: IIRC the Koosh also explicitly said that Palestinians currently living (or trying to live) on that lovely Gaza coast would have to be moved inland to some sort of…what’s a good word?…reservation in a nearby desert., to make way for his posh casino or whatever. (What, you thought he’d actually hire them to work at his resort?) So yeah, it’s pretty clear that family sees Palestinians as “unhumans,” whether or not they use that word in public. Just like it’s pretty clear their whole party are racist, whether or not they use a certain other word in public.
I did not actually expect a citation for your claim, RB.
Your claim is that Trump’s whole family refer to people living on the Gaza coast as “unhumans”, not that some Republican adherents wrote a book with that title.
Bah.
To what coalition do you intend to refer, there?
At least be specific.
Obviously, one group is Trump’s family, another is Republicans, and another “their supporting interest-groups”. Which is vague as fuck, and generalises without warrant.
So, I’m aware simple people hold simplistic views.
—
I do remember William Hope Hodgson used the term ‘abhuman’.
I guess that explains your chronic difficulties with nuance and reading between the lines …
Developers are a specialized form of venture capitalists.
Claiming that rising sea levels will somehow result in more coastline is particularly delusional. The barrier island where Mar-a-Lago is located is only 3 feet above sea level, when inundated it will have zero coastline.
<snicker>
You guess, do you?
Never mind the evidence at hand, never mind a chain of inference, never mind any of that.
You just guess.
(Quite a simple thing to do, for simpletons)
Anyway.
I would be most amused were you to attempt to name but a few of these putative failures at nuance and reading between the lines you reckon you have perceived.
Could it not possibly be that, because you fail to understand my nuance and insinuations and connotations and indirect allusions et cetera you imagine the failure is on my part?
Up to you. BB.
Happy to oblige, the blog is currently quitet.
If elected, Creepoid plans to pull the US out of the Paris agreement, not that that has done much for us. But on the other side of the Pacific there is some hope.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/aug/16/china-generating-enough-clean-energy-match-uk-entire-electricity-output
@John Morales
From the same linked Guardian article , one of Kushners quote is
What do you think this statement means ? How does Israel “move” the people and what is “clean it up”.
Also
What does “finishing the job” mean here ? Note that Israel has a broad definition of “enemy combatants” and is very much into expressing regret for collateral damage while continuing to inflict more of it.
Concerning the Guardian and the ongoing discussion about “Untermenschen”, I’ll just put this here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov
not pleasant reading, alas.
Your claim is that Trump’s whole family refer to people living on the Gaza coast as “unhumans”…
Damn, John, can’t you even try to quibble right? I never said the Trumps “refer” to Gazans as “unhuman,” I said they SEE and THINK of them as such. And yes, there’s plenty of evidence, of words and deeds, over many years, to support this claim.
QUIBBLE BETTER! I’m sure I’m not the only tech-writer who’s sneering down at your recent attempts.
Yeah, but you impute beliefs and attitudes to me that I know are false, so I know you aren’t the best at theory of mind.
Care to attempt to provide any of it?
Quibbling, eh?
Be aware that term refers to arguing about trivialities; it follows you think this ‘unhuman’ claim is but a triviality. Fair enough.
You imagine this is a technical subject? Heh.
Deepak:
The former refers to displacing the population and having Israel settle the place, the latter refers to displacing the civilians and killing the remaining non-civilians.
Neither of which entail that Kushner thinks those people they are killing or displacing are ‘unhuman’, and that alleged euphemism is not present.
Here is the quotation again:
“(after all the, er, what’s their latest euphemism, “unhumans” were herded off the land, of course)”.
(He’s well known for being a slumlord, BTW — I reckon that explains his perspective much better)
Neither of which entail that Kushner thinks those people they are killing or displacing are ‘unhuman’…
It doesn’t “entail” that the Koosh thinks that; but it pretty strongly IMPLIES that he does. And he’s also in cahoots with plenty of people who very clearly DO think that, many of whom have said so, without dispute from the Koosh.
Yes, I do get it’s your opinion.
I get you think it’s justified, and that Kushner stands for ‘them’ in your mind.
(Synecdoche being something at which every tech writer should perhaps excel)
Still, according to you, this is just a quibble, no?
About trivialities. No biggie.
[OT]
To be fair, that’s pretty much the normative view in Israel right now, best as I can make.
cf. https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov
One of the closing paragraphs:
The mindset (on both sides) is obvious: it’s them or us. No mercy!
@John Morales
Again how is this displace to be done ? Will Israel /Kushner politely request and the civilians will form an orderly line and start walking ? Does Israel have a magic detector to detect non civilians (if yes , why is not currently in use?)
Be specific and walk us through the details of what Kushner is proposing (Remember this is so that He/Israel can build waterfront properties)
But to cut a long thing short -- If a set of people can be convinced that a different set are vermin/less than human etc then they will (can, have, continue to) commit any atrocity while also thinking themselves as the good side. I think most of us on this blog also believe the inverse. If a set of people are willing to commit unspeakable atrocities on another set of people while thinking of themselves as the good guys then they must think that set of people as inhuman in some way.
Kushner is advocating to build real estate , knowing that a lot of people (including a whole lot of innocents) will have to die -- if that doesnt mean he thinks of these people as less than human , what does ?
You don’t see him advocating for Mexico to finish the job in Texas so that they could have an all you can eat Cancun style resort there, do you?
Why are you asking me even more questions?
I don’t know; I am not an Israeli politician or commander.
Whatever made you imagine I have detailed information about Kushner and his putative proposal?
RB and you are the ones pretending to know Kushner and his thoughts, not me.
Him actually saying so, instead of you speculating on such a weak basis.
For example, one can think of people as human, but inferior. It’s called ‘racism’.
For example, he could just not give a shit about anyone at all.
Et cetera.
Plenty of other plausible explanations other than he thinks they are not human.
Yeah, well Mexico is not bombing the shit out of Texas, is it?
(What a stupid attempted point!)
Beyond this limited circle, such statements on the illegality of Israeli actions in Gaza are anathema in Israel. Even the vast majority of protesters against the government, those calling for a ceasefire and the release of the hostages, will not countenance them.
Yep, Ivanyahu saw what 9/11 did for Bush Jr. and his party, and invited a similar incident to serve himself and his party the same way.
Raging Bee@22:
Nah; it’s clear he’s just phoning it in at this point.
As for Kushner’s proposed trail of tears, he and every other genocidal fuckstick who think that people divide into “the worthy” and “the unworthy” can all go fuck themselves.
Phoning it in suffices, BB.
And may I thank you for weighing in, it’s always important to know what your thoughts about me are on any particular day.
Certainly worth your popping into the comments, I grant.
(See, I can give you due praise)
—
Here, for you: https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/jared-kushner-claims-saudi-arabia-allowed-me-to-speak-freely-as-a-jew-than-some-us-college-campuses-101698623408122.html
↓Jared Kushner, the former senior adviser and son-in-law of Donald Trump, has praised Saudi Arabia as a safer place for Jews than some US college campuses. Kushner, who is Jewish himself, made this remark after visiting Saudi Arabia and speaking at a conference.
Jared Kushner highlights surge of antisemitic incidents in US. (Photo by Fayez Nureldine / AFP)(AFP)
Jared Kushner highlights surge of antisemitic incidents in US. (Photo by Fayez Nureldine / AFP)(AFP)
He said on “Sunday Morning Futures”: “One of the ironies is that, as an American Jew, you’re safer in Saudi Arabia right now than you are on a college campus like Columbia University.” He added that the Saudis “allowed me to speak freely.”
Kushner’s statement comes amid a surge of antisemitic incidents in the US, where some pro-Palestinian protesters have targeted Jewish students on campus.
↑Huh.
—
I remember when this comment thread was about climate and Musk and Trump and their convo, rather than wild claims about what ‘they’ () think about Gazans.
Then, this appeared:
“Remember, also, that Trump is the guy whose son-in-law openly talked about building a casino-resort complex on the Gaza coast (after all the, er, what’s their latest euphemism, “unhumans” were herded off the land, of course). This is how that whole family sees environmental issues.”
I could have noted how odd it is to imagine the Gaza catastrophe is an environmental issue on the basis of Kushner, but he had to add in that pointless parenthetical calumny.
Sure, it’s only opinion, that has by now been established.
(I know, I know… the other side do it, so why not do it back?)
No retort to my phone-in, BB?
So, basically, you think that people divide into “the worthy” and “the unworthy”, no?
I mean, you are worthy, no?
I could be wrong, you might think you are unworthy.
(Which is it, BB?)
@John Morales
Oh come now -- Arent you compelled to respond ?
Sure we are the ones saying his views imply some positions. You wished to disagree -- if you wanted to pretend ignorance , why respond ?
Heh. No one can be racist unless they say so. No one takes a bribe unless there is a literal quid pro quo. No one incites violence unless they literally state it. No one can be misogynist unless they literally state they hate women.
In context , there is a difference between a person thinking someone is inferior or a slumlord evicting who he thinks are undesirable for racist reasons and someone casually talking about a state “moving” people to the desert -- when its well known that the people claim the land as their own and have fought and have been killed for it. For using terms like finish the job when knowing full well that would mean the murder of a bunch of innocents. Thats way beyond does not care a shit about anyone (that would be for e.g. more accurate when used to describe something about your opinions)
Again , given that he was advocating for effectively the deaths of innocents to build real estate , the other reason i could think of is he is a genocidal psychopath. I dont think that helps your argument though. The thing is you dont follow through -- If Kushner is so indifferent to the deaths of those living in Gaza -- why ? Why does he not care a bit ? Its like how we would swat pesky mosquitoes and not feel guilt about it . You seem hung up on which precise animal or which precise term he has used .
Sure. But think of the resorts that we could get if they just got rid of the people there. Theres a reason Kushner doesnt talk about moving white , well off communities somewhere else , no ?
Deepak, I like it when you try to be feisty.
No.
Because it’s just malicious speculation.
Perhaps bullshitting thus is abandoning the [moral/ethical/logical/civic] high ground.
BTW, to which term ‘unhuman’ is used an euphemism is left to the imagination.
If that’s that you believe, fair enough.
In context, the claim is that the extended Trump family and others use “unhuman” as an euphemism.
(Can’t be an euphemism if it’s not actually expressed, can it?)
Your confession about your withered and impotent imagination is duly noted.
That was an exceptionally stupid attempted analogy.
(Comparing Texas to Gaza, heh)
Hahahaha. The funniest thing about this is there’s a slim chance Morales might actually believe it’s true.
Ah, UnsilentBub, only to be expected you’d pop in to talk about me to the audience.
It’s your thing.
See, here’s the thing: to the likes of you and Deepak, the truth suffices.
You know what the funniest thing about that is?
It’s that there’s not even a slim chance PustulentBubulum might actually believe it’s true.
You long ago gave up reason and cogency when talking about me.
Bob.
(Off topic)
Fellow Australians go to 8:40 in the third video for what an African-American thinks of Australian break dancing. X-D
Hahaha.
(And then keep watching because it’s a running gag.)
(/off topic)
Because what an African-American thinks of Australian break dancing is what every single ever African-American thinks of Australian break dancing, right?
(Way to stereotype, Bob!)
cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Voices_for_Trump
You are ever ready to point to this possibility in others’ thinking, but I would remind you the same possibility exists for your own. (And mine, and Mano’s, and etc.)
You would, would you?
Under what conditions would you do that, and why haven’t you done it yet?
If you did, I would probably respond somewhat snarkily.
(Gotta love this “I would” puffery, instead of “I” directness)
—
Well, Holms, here we are again.
All about me, my purported beliefs and attitudes, my failures, et cetera.
Never mind the topic.
Ah well.
Gotta love the bobiferant’s perception:
#38 is tagged off topic, but #36 is not.
(Revealing, no? for Bob, I am the topic)
The notion that Jews are “unsafe” on Columbia U’s campus is hogwash.
Um, read that again: “you’re safer in Saudi Arabia right now than you are on a college campus like Columbia University”.
That is a relative claim, not an absolute one.
Anyway, he’s therein pointing out how Jewish he is and how Arab-friendly he is.
Media stuff.
—
Also, nobody seems to have picked up that the cited source is a Russian propaganda puppet.
But that’s by the bye.
[OT]
cf. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/42938/42938-h/42938-h.htm
From The Project Gutenberg eBook, Horsemanship for Women, by Theodore Hoe Mead, Illustrated by Gray Parker, Page 142
“One invariable mark of Arab blood, by-the-bye, is a high and graceful carriage of the tail.”
#10 M’thew, #12 RB
John is asking for a citation / example of them using ‘unhuman’ to directly refer to Gazans.
…And then M’thew never returned to the thread. Irritating.
___
#18 John
Ah, I can oblige even if BB can’t. In this thread, you mistook my last questions in #33 (“But remind me, who here is the only one to promise to get the last word in any thread, at all, in our years-long history here? And is also the only one to brag of it later?”) to be a reference to a post of yours earlier in that thread, when it was actually a reference to the thread wherein you promised to get the last word, and also to those times that you bragged about it afterward.
___
#23 John
I have no idea why RB believes tech writers in particular are sneering at you in this thread, but be that as it may… Tech writers can sneer at more things than just technical subjects, therefore the comment does not imply RB believes this a technical subject.
__
#41 John
I already commented to the extent that I wanted on the OP, but then I noticed other people were also saying things, and engaging with each other!! :O
Anyway, I noticed your blind spot and pointed it out to you in case you weren’t aware. Characteristically, you have taken this gesture of edification as evidence of personal fascination, but as I have told you ad nauseam, I chip in when I see a post in need of addition or correction. You dominate the stream of bad argumentation in need of such, but it is characteristic of you these last few years to interpret that as flattery. This characteristic does not flatter you.
___
#42
It’s actually obvious that for Sbob, one comment continued the conversation that arose from the topic (even though it has since drifted), and the other was a break from the natural flow of the conversation. Not to say that that is necessarily a clearly good use of OT tagging, just pointing out that there is an interpretation that does not have anything to do with this fascination you imagine in others.
Holms, that’s one out of your allowance.
(You get a few more, yet, before I cut you off)
“Oh gosh no, Kushner himself doesn’t think Gazans are ‘unhuman,’ he’s just looking forward to working with people who think they’re ‘unhuman,’ and having polite conversations with them in the hopes of profiting from their policy of treating Gazans as ‘unhuman.’ He doesn’t really think they’re ‘unhuman,’ he’s just quietly agreeing with it for business purposes!”
And the 2024 Distinction Without a Difference Award goes to…
You are creating a straw dummy and putting words in its mouth.
And now you are quoting that dummy, pretending it’s me.
A very, very weak argumentative tactic, but it befits you.
Point is, I don’t know either way, but I do know it’s purely speculative that’s how he and Trump’s extended family and others think of Gaza as an environmental issue and that their latest euphemism is “unhumans”.
See, because I dispute some particular claim it doesn’t entail I endorse its contrary.
Basically, I am saying that this claim about this supposed euphemism they use to refer to Gazans is based on the weakest of evidence: that some Republicans wrote a book with that title. That’s it.
Well, you are the one who is quibbling, remember? I am disputing.
Heh.
Gee, John, whatever makes you think I was talking about you?
Heh.
Are you trying to pretend you were writing about someone else?
Raging Bee@50:
Who interfered with that last comment? Someone fix it please. I don’t seem to have an edit function.
And don’t do it again!
BB:
Heh. You can deny the obvious all you want, but only a dolt would fail to see that.
Also, I do not believe you believe that.
He seems to, does he?
(Whoever the mysterious person about whom you are opining may be)
—
I do love it when people talk to each other about me when I’m right here.
(It would be more obvious what’s going on if this were a physical meeting)
—
Now, it may have escaped your attention, BB, but this comment thread is all about me.
And it’s that way purely because people are talking to or about me, just as you are doing.
You could stop, you know. Then, I could not respond to talk to or about me, could I?
It’s not narcissistic to note people are talking to or about me, and it’s most of the thread.
And it happens regularly.
It’s realistic. It’s factual. It’s evident.
—
Again: if you expect me to just sit and take shit, you’re fantasising.
Perhaps I can drag the thread away from me and towards the topic:
https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/articles/cp8nq4em5nro
Pullquote: