The US is constantly criticizing other countries and lecturing them on how they should behave, as if the US is some kind of moral exemplar. Most countries do not respond in kind because of the US’s economic and military power but with China increasingly challenging the US in both those areas, they are in a position to respond. But the Chinese government tends to be cautious in its approach and temperate in its language even as it pursues hardline policies, an iron-fist-in-a-velvet-glove approach that has helped it gain influence in the world.
So it was a surprise, to me at least, to see them imposing sweeping sanctions on high-level Trump officials accompanied by harsh language, delivered even as Joe Biden was being sworn in.
In a striking repudiation of its relationship with Washington under Trump, the Chinese foreign ministry announced the sanctions in a statement that appeared on its website as Biden was taking the presidential oath.
Pompeo and the others had “planned, promoted and executed a series of crazy moves, gravely interfered in China’s internal affairs, undermined China’s interests, offended the Chinese people, and seriously disrupted China-US relations”, it said.
The other outgoing and former Trump officials sanctioned included the trade chief, Peter Navarro; national security advisers Robert O’Brien and John Bolton; the health secretary, Alex Azar; UN ambassador Kelly Craft; and former top Trump aide Steve Bannon.
The 28 ex-officials and immediate family members would be banned from entering mainland China, Hong Kong or Macao, and companies and institutions associated with them restricted from doing business with China.
…China has repeatedly rejected accusations of abuse in its western Xinjiang region, where a United Nations panel has said at least 1 million Uighurs and other Muslims had been detained in camps.
Responding to the Xinjiang allegations, a Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman, Hua Chunying, told a media briefing on Wednesday: “Pompeo has made so many lies in recent years, and this is just another bold-faced lie.
“This US politician is notorious for lying and cheating, is making himself a laughing stock and a clown,” she said.
Pompeo is undoubtedly a grandstanding clown but it is shocking to hear another country’s government spokesperson describe a US secretary of state in such a derogatory manner.
It is clear that this move was planned well in advance and they were waiting for the moment that Trump left office to show their anger and disdain.
Pompeo is undoubtedly a grandstanding clown but it is shocking to hear another country’s government spokesperson describe a US secretary of state in such a derogatory manner.
Nice isn’t it. 🙂
BTW, said spokesperson has repeatedly accused the Government of the People’s Republic of China of genocide. It may have hurt their feelings.
Of course, in many ways the fun thing about this (and something that almost certainly also figured into China’s internal discussions on this) is that Trump so alienated himself from most other world leaders, that almost nobody else with any power is going to complain about this. Putin won’t care; Trump is no longer useful to him. Boris Johnson always looked down his nose at Trump even as he tried to ride the same social waves. About the only other world leaders who could complain about this would be people like Bolsonaro in Brazil, and China doesn’t really have to care about him.
China can take this relatively unprecedented step, and because they’re focusing only on the people from the Trump administration, I expect there will be no serious reprisals, because everybody else is thinking, ‘yeah, that’s about right’. It’s completely safe for them.
Which, of course, potentially puts it into the category of ‘shifting the definition of normal’. If they get away with it this time, it becomes easier to justify it next time…
They waited until Trump was out to ensure that he wouldn’t inflict any more tariffs as a final act of vengeance. It was a prudent move. Only now that the snake has been defanged is it safe to kick it.
If China really had nothing to hide though, they’d let UN inspectors in to check out the claims of Uighur mistreatment. In the absence of that we have to assume all the rumours are true.
Re file thirteen at #3, I don’t think it is reasonable to assume that any accusation is true. If one has to spend time disproving every accusation made about the country, then we would be able to do nothing else but respond. And knowing that a country responds to every accusation by allowing third parties to investigate the accusations would lead to a mountain of all sorts of baseless accusations from malicious parties, just to see the country spend resources on disproving them.
As I do not consider the UN an unbiased organization. So, I’d take anything they come up with with a pinch of salt.
Remember what happened when Iraq allowed UN inspectors to inspect ll their alleged WMD sites? Do you recall how it helped Iraq successfully argue for the lifting of the embargo on them? Neither do I. So the lesson to be learned is to ignore the UN accusations, and never allow the UN inspectors into your country.
@Ravi #4
That would probably be a good argument, were it not for the million Uighurs detained in Chinese camps. Their welfare has to be considered. All governments want to avoid being scrutinised by anyone in any way, but the Chinese actually get away with it. If the UN can’t hold them to account, who can?
And for the purposes of historical accuracy, it should be remembered that the UN inspectors of Iraq repeatedly reported that there were no WMDs. The lesson is not that the UN cannot be trusted, but that the US can’t be.
@ 5 file thirteen
Can you point me to any credible sources that show a million Uighurs detained in Chinese camps? I am extremely dubious of these figures since they would mean ~5% of the population and ~ 10% of the Uyghur population of Xinjiang is incarcerated. So far, I have seen no believable evidence of this.
There most certainly are detention camps; you can find Chinese Gov’t films on YouTube --perhaps slightly idealised. The Chinese Gov’t seems to consider them re-education or deprogramming institutions for some rather dangerous terrorists.
There are reports of fairly (very?) tight security at least in Urumqi and I assume other cities. This may be due to the bombings and other attacks that have happened over the early 2000’s.
China has been fighting Uighar jihadists/terrerists, the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (TIM) , for many years and not just in Xinjiang. The TIM has been credibly blamed for the attack on the Kunming railway station in 2014 where sword-wielding attackers killed about 29 people and wounded around 150.
Mike Pompeo just took them off the US terrorist list 3 or 4 months ago .
The TIM have had a political wing in Istanbul since before WWII.
I would be inclined to give a lot of credence to a UN report.
I disagree with what the Chinese said about Pompeo’s lies
Rather than call them bold-faced, I would use the expression bald-faced, as in shameless.
Other than that, I think the Chinese have Pompeo’s number.
But they should not be attacking the Uighur with such a broad brush.
On the other hand, I presume they are still accepting profit from MAGA hats and Ivanka trinkets, for now.
My son has a very nice Uighar friend who is very worried about his family. I think there is plenty of evidence that camps in Xinxiang are housing more than just terrorists.
You want evidence, though — fair enough. Reuters, Washington Post, BBC, NYTimes, PBS — what exactly are you looking for as a “credible source,” jrkrideau? This isn’t exactly a fringe theory.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights/15-million-muslims-could-be-detained-in-chinas-xinjiang-academic-idUSKCN1QU2MQ
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54277430
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-spreadsheet-of-those-in-hell-how-china-corralled-uighurs-into-concentration-camps/2020/02/28/4daeca4a-58c8-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/world/asia/china-muslims-xinjiang-detention.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/uighurs/
brucegee1962@9, “what exactly are you looking for as a ‘credible source,’ jrkrideau? This isn’t exactly a fringe theory.”
RT, OANN, and Sputnik (at least): jrkrideau is a well-known Putin-influenced, and possibly Putin-paid, troll.
blf @10:
So you’ll have some evidence for that?
@jrkrideau #7
Can you point me to any credible sources that show a million Uighurs detained in Chinese camps?
(snip)
I would be inclined to give a lot of credence to a UN report.
Back in August 2018, there was one.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-china-rights-un-idUKKBN1KV23P
(for the benefit of those that don’t follow links, the title of the article I linked to is “U.N. says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps”)
I generally regard Amnesty International as fairly reliable on such matters… China’s Uighur Muslims: the truth behind the headlines:
More seriously and generally, China is perfecting the Panopticon. A technological realm of total surveillance and control that our American intelligence agencies can only dream of (while striving to match). There are apparently cameras on every street corner in Urumqi.
One does not have to be a Trumpanzee or a doctrinaire believer in American superiority to understand that the totalitarian state in China can be scary as heck. And, in some cases, very effective (see their COVID response)
Agree with bmiller. Also, don’t forget the “loyalty to the regime” number that they give everyone, which can affect everything from your job to where you live. Orwell’s Oceana looks like a hippy commune in comparison.
Trump did not create the plague, he was the huge bubo that made it impossible not to see it.
So, unfortunately, cutting it will not miraculously cure the plague. If only!
And for it be cured, its existence must be recognised.
When other countries use words like ‘democracy’ and ‘friendship’, they are just being diplomatic. And hopeful, of course.
But nobody truly believes the US is or ever was democratic, let alone benign.
And yes, out of fear, which, need I say, does not mean respect but simply lack of trust.
Yet I share the optimism: these are times full of pain and division, but also of great opportunities.
@ 11 Rob Grigjanis
blf @10:
jrkrideau is a well-known Putin-influenced, and possibly Putin-paid, troll.
So you’ll have some evidence for that?
Curses! They have the photocopies of the checks!
I must say I am honoured to be called “well-known”. Perhaps I can ask for a raise.
General response to a number of replies. Thanks for the interest.
Erratum: TIM should read ETIM in my original post.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights/15-million-muslims-could-be-detained-in-chinas-xinjiang-academic-idUSKCN1QU2MQ
Ah yes great source, Adrian Zenz
From Wiki
He is a lecturer in social research methodology at the Evangelical theological institution Akademie für Weltmission and a senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation.
Good neutral organizations?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54277430
Apparently valid reference just a dispute over whether some camps are detention camps or vocational training camps and it could well be the distinction is a bit blurred in Western eyes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-spreadsheet-of-those-in-hell-how-china-corralled-uighurs-into-concentration-camps/2020/02/28/4daeca4a-58c8-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html
Paywalled, No idea what they are saying.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/world/asia/china-muslims-xinjiang-detention.html
Again paywalled
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-china-rights-un-idUKKBN1KV23P
Gay McDougall, a member of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, cited estimates that 2 million Uighurs and Muslim minorities were forced into “political camps for indoctrination” in the western Xinjiang autonomous region.
Can you point me to the UN Report where this is documented? So far I see one person.
As I said to @ file thirteen, “I would be inclined to give a lot of credence to a UN report.” I really don’t put a lot of weight on one person’s interpretation.
@ Dunc
China’s Uighur Muslims: the truth behind the headlines
While I do not have quite as much trust as you do in Amnestf Int’l I am willing to give them a lot of consideration. Once I know (in general terms) who and where all those interviews occurred then I am willing to take them into consideration.
AI says ” We have conducted hundreds of interviews on the ground”. Does this mean that they have people in Xinjiang?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-rights/15-million-muslims-could-be-detained-in-chinas-xinjiang-academic-idUSKCN1QU2MQ
Ah yes great source, Adrian Zenz
From Wiki
He is a lecturer in social research methodology at the Evangelical theological institution Akademie für Weltmission and a senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation.
Good neutral organisations>
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54277430
Apparently valid reference just a dispute over whether some camps are detention camps or vocational training camps and it could well be the distinction is a bit blurred in Western eyes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-spreadsheet-of-those-in-hell-how-china-corralled-uighurs-into-concentration-camps/2020/02/28/4daeca4a-58c8-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html
Paywalled, No idea what they are saying.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/world/asia/china-muslims-xinjiang-detention.html
Again paywalled
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-china-rights-un-idUKKBN1KV23P
Gay McDougall, a member of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, cited estimates that 2 million Uighurs and Muslim minorities were forced into “political camps for indoctrination” in the western Xinjiang autonomous region.
Can you point me to the UN Report where this is documented? So far I see one person.
As I said to @ file thirteen, “I would be inclined to give a lot of credence to a UN report.”
@ Dunc
China’s Uighur Muslims: the truth behind the headlines
While I do not have quite as much trust as you do in Amnestf Int’l I am willing to give them a lot of consideration. Once I know (in general terms) who and where all those interviews occurred then I am willing to take them into consideration.
AI says ” We have conducted hundreds of interviews on the ground”. Does this mean that they have people in Xinjiang?
@jrkrideau #19
Re: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-china-rights-un-idUKKBN1KV23P
Can you point me to the UN Report where this is documented? So far I see one person.
I think that’s the wrong takeaway from the article. McDougall is head of the committee, so it’s not suprising the quote was hers. I thought the following was more pertinent:
Now I couldn’t find the UN report they’re quoting, but I have no reason to believe that Reuters invented one. Why would they? Do you know something I don’t?