Today comes yet another report of Israel shelling a UN school where hundreds of people were sheltering from the barrage and killing at least 19 people, despite UN officials repeatedly telling Israel that civilians were sheltering there. UN officials on the ground are openly disgusted with such actions.
Israel launched a deadly attack on a UN school housing refugees in Gaza despite repeated warnings that civilians were sheltering there, the UN has said.
UN spokesman Chris Gunness said “the world stands disgraced” by the attack, in which 15 were reported killed.
…Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
“The last time was hours before the fatal attack,” he said.
“Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school.”
He said there were “multiple deaths” including women and children, adding that the attack caused “universal shame”.
Images from the school showed large holes in the walls and roof.
Bob Turner, UNRWA’s Gaza director, said the UN was “confident” Israel was responsible.
He said UN workers had collected fragments of projectiles that suggested they were artillery shells fired from Israeli positions to the north-east of the school.
Israel gave its usual initial response, that it had retaliated because militants had fired rockets from the ‘vicinity’ of the school but later said it had no information about the attack and that they were reviewing the matter.
The Israeli assertion that they are not targeting civilians is no longer taken seriously. Firing heavy artillery into populated areas is guaranteed to produce civilian casualties and is criminally reckless. There is no way that anyone could doubt that a bomb that causes such great damage over a wide area (such as this photo of an attack yesterday) is not going to kill large numbers of civilians.
Yonatan Shapira was an Israeli Air Force pilot who a decade ago refused to fire into civilian areas this way and he explains that the Israeli claim that Hamas uses human shields to justify its attacks is disingenuous. In an interview with Democracy Now! from Tel Aviv, he says that Israel also puts its military installations right in the middle of civilian areas.
“The camera guy is not happy about that, but you can see the headquarter of the Kirya just few meters from the biggest hospital in Tel Aviv, Ichilov. You can see all of them just behind me, just in this frame. Just next to it, you have the biggest tower in this side of Tel Aviv. It’s the HaShalom Towers, the Peace Tower. And I think, in some symbolic way, it tells the whole thing. We are here talking about how the Hamas surround themselves with children, using them as a shield. By now, it’s 160 children dead and around 730, 740 people, most of them civilians. And Israel is still using this argument that the Hamas surround themselves with children. And I want you just to look at this picture and tell me what you think. You can really see the tower with the antennas. This is the headquarter of the Kirya, the headquarter of the army, the Israeli army that is controlling Gaza, controlling the air, the sea, the area in the West Bank, in everywhere. And just few meters from there, you have Ichilov and you have basically the city center of Tel Aviv. So, I think it’s very important, especially for liberal Jews that are now protecting and helping Israeli propaganda machine.”
Shapira also said that when he was still in the military he asked the top commander General Dan Halutz what he would do if a Hamas leader was hiding in Tel Aviv. Would he fire missiles at him, knowing the risk that Israeli civilians would be killed? He said Halutz said no. For Shapira that was the last straw. He told Halutz to find someone else to fly his planes.
Another former Israeli air force pilot Yuli Novak says that the Israeli military and public have steadily degenerated in its moral values and supported more and more horrific acts.
In July 2002 the Israeli air force dropped a one-tonne bomb on the home of Salah Shehadeh, the head of the military wing of Hamas, in Gaza. You don’t have to be an expert in air combat to imagine what’s left of a home hit by a one-tonne bomb. Not much. That bomb killed not only Shehadeh, but also 14 civilians, including eight children.
…After the assassination, Israel shook. Even when the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) insisted that there was operational justification for the attack, public sentiment could not accommodate this assault on innocent civilians. Israeli intellectuals petitioned the supreme court, demanding it examine the legality of this action. A few months later a group of reservist pilots criticised such elimination actions.
…Seven years later, during Operation Cast Lead, there was widespread dropping of bombs over densely populated areas in the Gaza Strip. Today, in Operation Protective Edge, the air force boasts of having released over 100 one-tonne bombs on Gaza. What was once the exception is now the policy.
This is how it goes today. We notify the inhabitant about the imminent destruction of a house minutes before a bomb drops (via text messages, or by dropping a smaller bomb on the house as a warning). That is enough to turn it into a legitimate target for an air strike. In the past two weeks dozens of civilians have been killed in such strikes.
Homes of Hamas members have become legitimate targets, regardless of the number of people within their walls. Unlike in 2002, no one bothers to justify or make excuses.
What’s worse is that almost no one protests. Entire families are erased in a second, and the Israeli public remains indifferent. From year to year, from one military operation to another, our moral red lines are stretching further away. Where will they be in the next operation? Where will they be 10 years from now?
It is becoming increasingly clear that Israel seeks to punish the people of Gaza for resisting the blockade and uses any excuse to unleash its massive power to destroy Gaza in order to force them to submit to harsh Israeli rule. But they are unlikely to succeed. The Gazans are being asked to accept a slow death from the effects of the blockade or face a quick death from bombing. They are choosing the third option, to fight back.
Israel is limited in what it can do only by what they think the US public, the underwriters for its actions, will tolerate. This is why its propaganda efforts in the US (that I will discuss in a future post) are so intense and so carefully planned and implemented.
That picture sums up this conflict so very well. One population is forced to live in squalid tenement housing, crowded and in heavy disrepair. The other can drop bombs with impunity, large enough to have a lethal radius noticeably larger than an entire apartment building.
Israel is an adult forcing a child to go to bed without dinner, moving up to assault when the child throws a tantrum.
And the headline on cnn.com? “10,000 rockets. 32 tunnels. 1.8 million people”
No mention of the fact that Israel has blockaded the Gaza strip for several years. Only the tunnels and rockets of Hamas are relevant; the tanks, troops, planes and warships deployed by Israel are irrelevant, of course.
Western Main Stream media is definitely unbiased, no doubt about it!
One population is forced to live in squalid tenement housing, crowded and in heavy disrepair.
Don’t forget the destruction of the source of two-thirds of Gaza’s electric power.
. And none of this would have happened without Hamas and its war crimes.
Never forget that.
Or who Hamas are, what they do and wish for.
You think so? Wow.
How about it having something a lot more to do with Hamas firing rockets, using tunnels to launch terrorist attacks on Israel and , oh yeah, theinitail spark of Hamas kidnapping and murdering three teenage kids who had done nothing to it?
Reckon, maybe, just maybe, that might be abit closer to reality?
Except, StevoR, that that canard about Hamas being responsible was FALSE. As Israel has now admitted, Hamas had nothing to do with that kidnapping, and the IDF knew it before they started the drumbeat for invasion.
So yes, it’s collective punishment of the whole population, for attacks which have killed a couple of dozen people, and which punishment is killing hundreds of children. CHILDREN. Stevo, do you really contend that those children deserved that? If so, you’re a truly repulsive human being.
Note, I grant you the title of human being, despite your behaving despicably. Too bad so many of Israel’s supporters can’t extend the same basic humanity to the hundreds of civilian victims of their obscene overreactive orgy of annihilation.
But truly repulsive, if you can’t see how disgusting that is.
Hamas war crimes versus Israeli war crimes.
How do you tell the difference?
Well, one key giveaway : Hamas war crimes are intentional and Israel’s are not. Hamas goes out of its way to murder and exploit the deaths of those who’ve been killed as the result (direct and indirect) of its murders. Israel, well, the worlds only, tiny Jewish state does the exact flippin’ opposite of that -- and, somehow, to so many deluded, illogical and warped people, Isea;l s still the bad guy here. Because? Well, yegods, that beats me. Because Israel is pro-Western and actually good not evil maybe?
It is refreshing to see you finally admit that Israel’s actions are war crimes. That said, your defense of said war crimes absolutely makes you a war crimes apologist. Again, thank you for at least having the tiny decency to own your goddamn words; now, let’s hear no more of your faux-outrage at being quite accurately labelled with a term that perfectly fits your position.
As usual though, your actual defense of said actions is just amazingly dishonest. Unintentional? Purest bullshit. You are deliberately ignoring the fact that the Gaza strip is incredibly crowded entirely because Israel displaced huge numbers from their original lands and corralled 1,800,000ish people into a roughly 7x40km city + refugee camp, deliberately started the war on what they knew to be a lie, and deliberately dropped the bombs into large swathes of residential housing.
@6. CaitieCat, getaway driver :
Citation please? First I’ve heard of that.
Yeah, they’ve only killed a few innocent people, so far and, wow gee, crikey, how tough for Hamas that is. If only Israel had done and thought the way that Hamas has and considered the lives of its people worthless eh? The difference in death toll is because Israel protects its civilians and priorities their lives. Builds them shelters, has its “Iron Dome” anti- attacking missiles system and sirens and urges its people to seek shelter instead of demanding they sacrifice all their lives and act as human shields and propaganda points to keep Hamas in power.
Hamas? Hamas does not give a single flying crap about the lives of Palestinians. It exploits and manipulates and celebrates every single last sodding death in this war -- on both sides -- that it causes and that alone is surely enough proof that it is utterly evil and deserves complete destruction. There is no place for Hamas in a decent, free and happy world.
How the blazes is this not blindingly apparent to everyone? Seriously, anybody, please do tell.
NO.
No, no , nope, nup, naye, nein and nyet, non. I do NOT think and have never claimed that children who are not Hamas members or responsible for its evils deserve death. Never once.
If only Hamas gave a damn about those it claims to represent. it very clearly does not or it would never have started this stupid, brutal, awful war.
No, I’m not repulsive. No I don’t want kids to die.
Can we not take that as a given axiom please?
Um, thanks?
You think I am behaving “despicably” because ..well, why exactly? I put the opposing side of this issue? I see the metaphorical Hamas
emperorKaliph as clothing-less instead of dressed impeccably and uncriticisably? What precisely is”despicable” in anything I’ve said here?Huh? You really think that’s what this is?
An “obscene, overreactive orgy of annhiliation” to respond with deadly force to deadly force? Who are shooting back when they are shot at? To do something to hit back against people who have fired thousands of lethal rockets at them and show no sign of stopping and have explicitly stated they wish to exterminate an entire population that has constantly offered them peace deals which they have rejected?
If Israel wanted to engage in an “obscene, overreactive orgy of annhiliation” then there would have long since been no Gaza at all.
Frankly, the Israelis patience and restraint and care for Gazan lives is unprecedented in the history of warfare. Which doesn’t mean the consequences of the war Hamas has desired and started and continued stubbornly and needlessly and horrendously for everyone aren’t dreadful, tragic and sick.
Hamas can and should end this war ASAP.
Just stop firing rockets and being terrorists. That’s what it takes. Too much to ask?
@8. Holms : War is a crime to some.
Sometimes its the only thing you can reasonably do. Sometimes its unavoidable because of circumstances beyond your control.
It is manslaughter or suchlike -justifiable homicide -- to kill in self defence I think. But if someone points a gun at you and its life or death -- you either shoot back or die.
Israel has chosen to shoot back -- not die.
Do you really blame them and would you rather be dead yourself in their shoes?
StevoR, you’re the PE teacher who decides that, because the persecuted skinny runt said he wanted the jocks to suffer and wouldn’t stop flailing at them with ineffectual punches, the football team was entirely justified in breaking his nose, then breaking his arm, then taking a sledgehammer to his knees.
You’re the Internal Affairs officer who decides that, because the rapper “incited harm to law enforcement” by performing “Kill the Pigs” at all his concerts and “became belligerent” during a stop-and-frisk incident, the local police were entirely justified in pepper-spraying everyone on his tour bus and then pulling him out of the bus and piling on top of him until he died.
You’re the military investigator who decides that, because the Viet Cong who killed their buddies must have been being sheltered in a certain hamlet whose inhabitants “turned on them” during their search, the American unit deserves medals for wiping out the whole village.
I mean, in each case, the party with less power just wouldn’t accept their lot in life; they wouldn’t stop making threats or acting dangerously or committing violence; they provoked a “decisive response” by the powerful party, so they deserved it, right?
I hope you never actually have to be on the receiving end of the kind of remorseless, indiscriminate, crushing reduction you are so very eager to attribute solely and entirely to the population being pulverized.
Whaa .. Blockquote fail. Sigh.
Oh well, sure y’all can work out what was meant.
Prob’ly. Past experiences here notwithstanding.
You say that after having the nerve, in a previous thread, to compare the Arab-Israeli conflicts to a sporting event that the Arabs always lose?
I strongly disagree with your first statement and I have grave doubts about the second.
Wow. You really did rationalize Israel killing children by saying it’s Hamas’ fault.
You are, truly, despicable right now, StevoR. I hope you get some help with that from someone, anyone who can get through to you, how vile anyone outside the conflict sees your behaviour as right now. I think you really don’t see it, but I sincerely hope someone can show you, because as an atheist, I’d hate to see a life wasted on such slavering hatred.
Last thought: have you considered, at all, what you’re doing for Israel? Do you really think you’re making things better for them, with this apologist routine that everyone is telling you they see as an apologist routine? What are you really accomplishing? With me, you’ve accomplished convincing me that Israel’s defenders have completely lost any sense of morality or human decency. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one here. Was that really what you were after? Is it possible that your behaviour is contributing to that conviction?
Don’t bother responding to me, or if you do, don’t expect it to be read by me or replied to. You’re in the dev/null file with ObsessiveAnnihilationist-berger. Can’t say I didn’t give fair effort to seeing whether there was any empathy at all under that blustering, blind patriotism. Can’t say I’m not disappointed to find there’s none.
@Stevo #5:
Please think about this. When people are living in prosperous times, generally there is no desire to resort to violence. People have opportunities to lead a satisfactory life, and go about their business peacefully.
But when a people are oppressed, when there is nothing in life to aspire to, they have no choice but to resort to violence against their oppressors. Such, I believe is the case with the Palestinians and Israel. When Israel’s blockade throttles their livelihood, what are the residents of Gaza supposed to do? Should they just lie down and let themselves be killed slowly?
If you accept that Israel is the one that chokes all Palestinian aspirations to a peaceful life, you’ll understand why Hamas has to do what it does.
Hell, if the British were still in India, I would be a freedom fighter / terrorist trying to get them to leave. So, too, are the Hamas to the Palestinians -- they are fighting for the freedom that is being denied to them by Israel, and by their enablers, primarily the US.
But I fear I am wasting my time here. Once convinced of something, some people can’t admit they were mistaken. It takes an unusually brave man to admit his mistakes.
None of this would be happening if it weren’t for the majority of people believing in bronze-age myths.
Real people are dying for fictional reasons.
@8. Holms : War is a crime to some.
Sometimes its the only thing you can reasonably do. Sometimes its unavoidable because of circumstances beyond your control. You’re being dishonest again, this time by using a false equivalence. ‘War crime’ is a well understood term, with meanings enshrined in international humanitarian law under multiple conventions over the years. Wars are always tragic, but they can still be conducted completely free of war crimes.
Note also that while war can be justified by self defense, a) Israel is the aggressor rather than the victim, and b) regardless of the cause of the war, war crimes (there’s that pesky term again -- pay attention to it!) are by definition never justified.
Even if true which is highly contentious – do you think that justifies terrorism and firing rockets at innocent people? I don’t.You’re actually trying to contest the idea that Israel shoved the displaced Palestinians into the Gaza strip? Or that Israel settlers displaced people in the first place? Jesus fucking christ you have no shame. These facts are not only well documented but also and easy to find.
Worse still is the fact that you continue to repeat the idiotic claim that those of us arguing against you on this topic somehow endorse the actions of Hamas, depite it being spelled out to you on numerous occasions that we condemn them, but we also condemn those same actions being made by Israel. Well, calling them the same is not accurate; they are certainly similar in nature, but Israel has demonstrated that it has the modern technology to bombard civilians much more effectively than Hamas ever could.
Again, let me spell it out to you. Hamas indescriminately bombarding cities: condemned as a war crime. Israel doing the exact same thing but to a far greater degree: a worse war crime. That is not to say that Hamas are the comparative ‘good guys’ at all; it is instead that we are not turning a blind eye to Israeli war crimes, as you continue to do.
(Note that turning a blind eye to war crimes, as you repeatedly do, makes you a war crimes apologist.)
To use your own word – that’s bullshit.
Extraordinary claims -like that one above there – require extraordinary evidnece and you sure have none of that.
Except that the evidence has been presented to you in another thread, you have simply overlooked it. Or, quite possibly deliberately ignored it.
Regardless of your dubiously selective reading and research skills, here is the article discussing the nature of the precipitating event, linked to you by dean here.
Hamas have wilfully continued it refusing umpteen ceasefires. (Have you kept count? I’ve lost track of the number of ceasefires Hamas has rejected or and broken long ago.)
The most recent ceasefire offer that I am aware of… was turned down by Israel. The demands / requests contained in that proposal are quite reasonable, as the things being requested all amount to a reduction in opression that should not be happening in the first place.
As for where we have dropped bombs, Israel has warned innocent residents with extraordinary and unusual measures and Hamas are the one’s choosing from where they fire and store rockets and choosing to use human shields – whether willing or not.
What part of that exactly do you fail to comprehend?
I guess my ‘failure’ is that I cannot fathom how bombing the residences of civilians is ever justified, regardless of whether they were given notice ahead of time or not. I guess I’m just not a war crimes apologist, shucks.
Stevor, this
is an amazingly blatant lie, even for you. As I see has been pointed out, I mentioned it earlier and supplied a citation when you requested it. It seems that either
i) You asked earlier for a citation, thinking none would appear, and after it did chose to pretend nothing was presented, or
ii) Never cared that a reference was provided.
Everyone here realizes you don’t care whether innocents (women, children, elderly) are killed, as long as they are “others”. You’ve established that over a long series of posts. What is amazing is that you think you can spew lies without them being noticed.
He asked me for a citation on the same point over ten days ago, and I provided it. No response.
Don’t expect genocide and child murder enthusiast Stevo to ever argue in good faith. I’ve seen him ignore the citations in several threads. He loves Israel and hates Hamas, so he cheers when Israel slaughters children and ignores all evidence of their lies.
I suspect this will simply become the latest in a long line of threads abandoned by War Crimes Enthusiast StevoR. Now that all sorts of sources have been cited in arguments debunking his dishonesty, he will likely not reply so as to maintain the pretense that he has not seen them. Next step: repeat the usual lies in the next thread of course.
The US stands by and excuses Israel in the exact same way that China stands by and excuses North Korea.
Is rage-vomiting a thing? Because I think I just experienced something very close to it.
In the news: Gaza conflict: United Nations releases before and after satellite images of Gaza destruction.
@Friendly
You are entitled to your erroneous opinions -- that does not make them true.
Also, sardonic, grim humour. Clearly your sense of it is lacking. The situation is so terrible, what can you do but laugh or cry?
@23. rq. The truth makes you “rage-vomit” -really? How sad. Not an actual argument or rebuttal I note.
@ 18. dean :
No, it was a request for a source and a statement of fact..
(When Mano Singham posts a heap of posts in quick succession on the same topic, yeah, I can’t always keep up. I have a job and a life outside of this much as I enjoy, sometimes, commenting here)
Or iii) haven’t yet seen every last comment on every last thread on this because, well see above.
Wow. personal abuse and lies aimed at hurting my feelings an d attacking my reputation. i am surprised -not.
Well, I’ve looked at your citation here and y’know when you think about it it confirms -- not refutes --confirms what i’ve said. From your source :
A lone cell.
Lone cell of what group?
Oh yeah, Ham-flippin’-ass!
Also :
As long as Hamas keeps shooting, Israel has the right and indeed obligation really, to shoot back.
Or do Israeli and Jewish lives mean nothing to you?
@14. CaitieCat, getaway driver :
Because that is the truth.
And I do empathise with all human beings. Well, almost. Terrorist scumbags who exploit and cause the deaths of others I don’t. (Serial killers, pedophiles, rapists and some other rare cases too. But in general…)
Yes, I am only human. I am messed up in some ways. Despite what some think I’m also open to admitting I’m wrong if & when I am based on the evidence and argments presented.
But I do feel the impact of the deaths and injuries and suffering of innocents on both sides here.
You can believe that or not, ignore this or not but is the case regardless.
@21. Holms :
Consider yourself disproven thus -- and reconsider. A whole lotta things.
@22. left0ver1under : “The US stands by and excuses Israel in the exact same way that China stands by and excuses North Korea.”
Really?
That’s quite an extraordinary and unsupported assertion.
Do you think South Korea is firing missiles at North Korea?
Do you think either Israel or the USA are totalitarian states with dictators instead of democracie sguiding them?
Are you for real?
@20. DrVanNostrand :
Based on that rubbish comment of yours I’ll certainly never expect *you* to argue in anything approaching good faith, scumbag.
What is wrong exactly with either loving Israel or hating Hamas? You say that like its a bad thing. It ain’t.
As for cheering when Israel “slaughters children” -- No, I leave that sort of thing to Hamas and its supporters who danced in their streets on 911 and proudly wave blood-stained hands after lynching people.
Hamas hand out celebratory sweets and praise whenever Jews are murdered. Israel does not do anything remotely like that when Palestinians kids die -- they go to extremes to avoid that when they can instead -- see :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6162494.stm
among many,many other things.
So. What does that tell the world about them and you eh?
Steveor, your ability to lie about things that contradict your position is astounding. Although I would not have believed it, you seem to be more disgusting than I had even dreamed.
Being that none of us are in that situation along with the oppressed Palestinians, don’t laugh at those that are. It’s real simple, to anyone with a shred of decency.
Actually, that report made it clear that the ‘lone cell’ was not under the command of Hamas, but I see you only paid attention to the words that, when taken in exclusion of everything else, allows you to pretend that an article disagreeing with you is actually agreeing with you.
As long as Israel keeps shooting, Hamas have the right and indeed obligation really, to shoot back. Or do Palestinian and muslim lives mean nothing to you? …StevoR being lopsided again.
Alternatively, we could admit that being shot at by Hamas does not entitle you to shoot back 250 fold (1,499 palestinian dead this offensive vs. 6 Israelis dead to Hamas missle attacks this year), and primarily at civilians, including civilians hiding in UN designated shelters. Because that’s a war crime.
Dawwwwwww poor StevoR’s widdle feewings were hurt, so he then calls someone a scumbag. Nice!
Uh, you remember it’s Steveor to whom you’re talking, right? To him the only good Palestinian man, woman, or child is a dead one.
StevoR @25
Rage-vomiting at the truth? The truth that you’re a vile person arguing in favour of the slaughter of more civilians, because they’re somehow all collectively guilty and deserving of even more death? Yes, that does indeed make me rage-vomit.
And it was a comment-as-observation, not necessarily an argument or a rebuttal. I’m still allowed to post that kind of comment here, right?