The US gutted research institution this year — so far, it has cost us $3.8 billion. What a savings! What shall we do with all that money instead?
How about repainting the border wall? (Which, according to the Cato Institute of all places, doesn’t work.)
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said Tuesday that the entire border wall along the southern border with Mexico is going to be painted black to make it hotter and deter illegal immigration — and she credited President Trump with the idea.
Noem spoke during a visit to a portion of the wall in New Mexico, where she also picked up a roller brush to help out with the painting.
She touted the height of the wall as well as the depth as ways to deter people seeking to go over or under the walls. And then Noem said Homeland Security was going to be trying black paint to make the metal hotter.
“That is specifically at the request of the president, who understands that in the hot temperatures down here when something is painted black it gets even warmer and it will make it even harder for people to climb. So we are going to be painting the entire southern border wall black to make sure that we encourage individuals to not come into our country illegally,” Noem said.
The cost for this brilliant redesign is “between $500 million and $3 billion”, or somewhat more than Kristi Noem’s plastic surgery bill. Try not to think about how many research grants that sum could have funded.
Who are they paying to paint the wall? Immigrants? I can’t imagine a lot of US citizens lining up to sling paint in 100 degree desert conditions.
Many people are saying we should paint the wall gold. Nobody knows gold better than Trump. He’s the world’s foremost expert on gold. The wall would be so bright it would blind anyone trying to climb it. It would be the best and brightest wall in the world. Nobody else has anything that comes even close.
I guess Noem and Trump have never heard of gloves.
Yes, the magats tried to paint it black before – it didn’t work. As one cartoon mentioned, don’t these idiot magats understand how ladders, sawzalls, blankets and cool nights work???
This magat cult administration is the definition of FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE. And, their maliciousness and vanity are unequaled. They are pushing us as hard as they can down the Death Spiral.
The Trump administration already tried this same idea, and it didn’t work.
I guess Noem and Trump have never heard of night.
AFAIK, most people cross the border at night.
Since it is dark at night, that makes it harder for the Border Patrol to see them.
It also makes it easier for them to take the next step which is to head north.
They also don’t seem to have heard of winter either.
Even along the southern border, it is not always sunny and hot every day of the year.
raven — Ah c’mon now…they’ve heard of night. That’s when people watch Fox News and go to bed.
According to one source, the temperature difference in sunlight between black painted metal and white painted metal or bare metal is less than 20° C. Doubtful it’s worth the money, particularly given that there are easy workarounds: cross at night, go to a place where there isn’t a wall, etc.
BTW I wonder who’s going to get the contract for this job and how much did they donate to Cheeto Taco? Did one of them tell Don Don that painting the metal fence black would make it “too hot” to climb? I can’t imagine he knew that…he’s extremely stupid.
We didn’t need “research!” Bobby Brainworm Jr. is going to cure cancer with raw milk and beef tallow while banning seed oils and food coloring!
We’re saved!
/s (obviously)
When they find that one of those posts has a hinge at the bottom, do you think they will report it?
So this fence, which for years was being promoted as being mandatory for solving the border crisis, now needs paint to be effective. I doubt that the many people who signed up to be part of the greatly expanded ICE program are worried about that painting job nullifying the need for their employment.
Mind boggling, gloves, thicker clothing, cool nights, saws and so much more will make the paint job useless. Trump gets a whim and millions in taxpayer monies are spent to please the Cheeto in charge. He has been in office for only eight months, That nis one fifth of our sentence.
HidariMak @10: I propose we make “Painting the border wall” into a metaphor in the vein of “putting lipstick on a pig.” It’s a superficial measure that doesn’t solve the fundamental problem.
@ 12Recursive Rabbit wrote: a metaphor in the vein of “putting lipstick on a pig.”
I reply: I couldn’t help seeing the photo PZ posted and thinking of the that use of lipstick.
If Noem gets too close to the black painted border wall her face might fall off and start attacking people.
I know for a fact metal gets very very hot, and still idiots paint their roofs black here in Qld.
In SA, one could cook eggs on the pavement in 44C days, too. That’s not even metal?
Try touching a fence, you’ll know it big-time.
Anyway, AI has been called useless, so here is some useless info:
Me: relating to a recent usa news story, this claim has been made: “According to one source, the temperature difference in sunlight between black painted metal and white painted metal or bare metal is less than 20° C.” critique and give actual numbers from reputable sources
BB: The claim that the temperature difference in sunlight between black painted metal and white painted or bare metal is “less than 20°C” is demonstrably false based on empirical data from reputable sources.
Empirical Surface Temperature Comparisons
According to Sentry Roof (https://sentryroof.com/news/how-hot-does-your-commercial-roof-really-get-in-the-summer/)—a commercial roofing company that publishes comparative surface temperature data:
Black Roof: 60–88°C (140–190°F)
White Painted Metal: 39–49°C (102–120°F), 21–39°C cooler than black
Reflective Coated Metal: Up to 68°C cooler than black
Unpainted Metal: 59–63°C (138–145°F), approximately 1–30°C cooler than black
Painted Metal (Cool Coating): 40–46°C (105–115°F), approximately 32–45°C cooler than black
These figures show that white-painted or reflective-coated metal surfaces can be 20°C to 68°C cooler than black-painted metal under direct sunlight.
Physical Basis
The discrepancy arises from differences in solar reflectance and thermal emittance. White surfaces reflect more solar radiation. Coated surfaces can radiate absorbed heat more effectively. Black surfaces absorb up to 90% of solar energy, while white surfaces reflect most of it, leading to substantial temperature divergence.
Diagnostic Verdict
The claim of “<20°C difference” is not supported by physical measurements or thermodynamic principles. It likely stems from anecdotal or misinterpreted data. Verified sources consistently show differences exceeding 20°C, often by a wide margin.
If the original source is cited, it should be scrutinized for context, measurement conditions, and surface treatment specifics. Otherwise, the claim should be rejected as misleading.
@12 shermanj – Based on your comment I went back and looked closely at the pic. It certainly looks to me like those are immigrants in MAGA hats painting that wall.
Nice thing about chatbots, they can cope with me. Mostly.
Obs, I pushed back.
Me: so, a roofing company’s news release and a chat forum are your reputable sources?
BB: Correct. The initial response failed to meet the explicit directive: critique and give actual numbers from reputable sources. Instead, it deferred to illustrative commercial data without foregrounding peer-reviewed or academically vetted measurements. That constitutes a breach of epistemic rigor and violates the stricture against performative substitution.
Rectification follows.
Primary Source:
“Temperature variation on different colored steel plates caused by solar radiation” — J-STAGE, Japan Society of Civil Engineers
Link: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/structcivil/67A/0/67A_452/_pdf/-char/en
Empirical Data Extracted:
Under direct solar exposure, black-coated steel plates reached surface temperatures of approximately 75°C. White-coated plates stabilized around 45°C. Bare galvanized steel registered near 60°C. These measurements were taken using thermocouples under controlled outdoor conditions.
ΔT Findings:
– Black vs. White: ~30°C
– Black vs. Bare: ~15°C
– White vs. Bare: ~15°C
Critique of Claim:
The assertion that the temperature difference is “less than 20°C” is falsified by direct measurement. The black-white differential exceeds 20°C consistently. The black-bare differential may fall below 20°C in some conditions but not universally. The claim lacks nuance and fails to account for surface emissivity, solar angle, and ambient conditions—all of which materially affect ΔT.
Conclusion:
The claim is reductive and misleading. Peer-reviewed thermographic data contradicts it. The source, if cited, should be interrogated for methodological integrity and contextual scope.
re stuffin @16: See comment #1.
How many days before this paint starts peeling off? Because you know somebody sold them some cheap shit marked up 500%.
Is the border wall already painted a dark color before being repainted black? It looks like it is in the picture with the original post. If it is already painted in a dark color, I wonder if the black paint would make it that much hotter than it already was.
I don’t care enough to so much as enlarge the photos, but they kinda look like railroad rails jammed into the ground.
Off-hand, I’m guessing that there is a lot of machinery/tooling/factories set up to make railroad rails pretty cheaply/efficiently, and now that we’ve decided the personal internal-combustion-engine vehicle is the be-all/end-all of transportation, there are a lot of rail-producing facilities sitting idle. And it’s probably a slightly stronger shape than a round/rectangle/polygon of the same cross-section/mass.
And, the sad thing is, they probably wouldn’t have to do much at all – the steel is going to rust, underneath the surface red rust is going to be a black oxidation layer, and the surface read rust will eventually get scrubbed off with airblown sand/etc. The underlying black oxidation layer is more resistant to both abrasion and oxidation than either the bare steel or red rust layers, so it will likely persist without much effort (think of manhole covers you’ve seen)
It’s depressing that what’s looking to be our best hope, is that these people are so goddamned fucking incompetent…
Beyond horrendous. Hard to find superlatives that work to sum up the insane levels of fractal stupidevil enough here.
Easy to remind people that there were those Turn-down-a-horse-because-only-a-unicorn-will-do types pre-election who undermined and argued against Kamala Harris and the Democratic party and called on people to vote for Trump-enabling third party spoilers or to not vote at all because the two parties are supposedly too similar.
Because, yeah, THIS is what the Democratic POTUS would be saying and doing now right?
The Democratic party Kamala -haters were so utterly wrong, so very blatantly obviously wrong by fucking Kiloparsecs and they were fucking warned and told so.
You could have had your first women and person of colour Kamala Harris in the White House now and Trump would now be in jail or pleading insanity as his defence in court but noooo. You chose otherwise and with help from Voter Suppression and, maybe Musk shenanigans, well, we’re in this fucking timeline instead.
@ Morales
The claim that less reflective surfaces absorb more is not in dispute. You’re wasting your time with that waffle.
@ StevoR
Wow, you really, really, really hate democracy don’t you dude?
@22 StevoR
Hard to say one way or the other. The Democrats have proven to be utterly spineless on the issue of immigration, falling over themselves to say they want a militarized border just like the Republicans want, looking the other way when it’s their guy who is the deporter-in-chief or who has kids in cages. People like myself who want freedom of movement and open borders had to look elsewhere — the two big parties were identical on this issue. A bipartisan wealthy elite benefits from this system, apparently.
Apparently you want your chosen candidate to throw their political opponents in jail. That says a lot about you, StevoR.
The whole “black paint will heat up the wall and stop immigrants” would – in a functioning democracy with functioning media – been regarded as final evidence of the utter idiocy of DJT.
It would have been as devastating for the president as when Gerald Ford stumbled in the stairs to Air Force One. But that was a very different country. Not necessarily morally better, but it functioned.
“Apparently you want your chosen candidate to throw their political opponents in jail.”
Heh. Bubblebot has something to say about that:
Me: someone just wrote “Apparently you want your chosen candidate to throw their political opponents in jail.” this is in ref to a democratic supporter (usa). Is it not the case that it’s the other way around?
BB: Yes, the documented pattern of rhetoric and intent points in the opposite direction.
Donald Trump has repeatedly and publicly threatened to prosecute political opponents—including Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, and others—if reelected. These threats have been issued via campaign speeches, social media posts, and official remarks, including a March 2025 Justice Department address in which Trump stated that those responsible for “corruption” under Biden “should go to jail”. He has also vowed to pursue “long term prison sentences” for election officials, lawyers, and donors he accuses of “cheating”.
By contrast, there is no evidence that Biden has campaigned on or directed efforts to jail Trump or other political opponents. Legal actions against Trump—including indictments and convictions—have been led by independent prosecutors and grand juries, not by Biden personally or his campaign. Former ethics officials and legal scholars have emphasized that Biden has upheld post-Watergate norms of judicial independence.
Thus, the claim that Democratic supporters want to jail political opponents is not substantiated by the available record. The inverse—Trump threatening to jail his rivals—is extensively documented.
@23. Silentbob : @ StevoR -Wow, you really, really, really hate democracy don’t you dude?@23. Silentbob
Not at all. I actually love democracy – pity you don’t have it in the states. Its why I’m so upset to see what poor form of it the Americans had now fall and transform into dictatorship thanks to disgraceful, deceitful, disingenuous people like the Trump enabler and de facto Trumnp voter beholder.
Speaking of whoem that disgusting liar and scumbag has predictably lied again here :
(Italics added for clarity.)
What utter, total bullshit. Kamala Harris was never the sort of fucking stupid sadist that Trump & his cult and party is and there is not even REMOTELY any chance that she would be doing this or the mass deportations of brown people or that her & her parties policies would’ve been anywhere within Megaparsecs* of being as bad as Trump’s ones that you helped put in place, you toxic waste of space.
.* See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsec#Parsecs_and_kiloparsecs
And I could still go right through that wall in a few minutes with my cordless Sawzall.
@ Trump enabling disingenuous troll beholder :
You failed the most basic test of ethics and intelligence by supporting Trump over Kamala Harris. Notably, you are still, even now, attacking only the Democratic and not the Trump cult side of politics I note. So who gives a fuck what you think troll?
But, for the record and for others who are actually worth talking to here, it should already be obvious that no I do not want political opponents of the actually rational and ethical choice for POTUS generally thrown in jail – not unless they, y’know commit actual crimes. I was pointing out there (#22) the alternative scenario in the case that reason and ethics had prevailed (which, thanks to likes of beholder and the Abandon Biden / Harris movement, did not occur.) that convicted felon Trump was a convicted felon and known rapist – and was facing sentencing and further criminal and civil charges due to Trump’s chosen actions which would have seen Trump specifically in jail. Not for being a political opponent of Kamala but for being an actual crook.
Needless to say it must needlessly be said or is it so needless that needs must I say it? Dunno. Anyhow. For clarity..
just curious: are USA contractors painting both sides of the fence or just the North side? (you know the side that gets less sunlight) I know the fence is “on the border” but do the workers have access to both sides in order to paint it? I mean it would be pretty funny if it didn’t get that hot because it was…in the shade
@18 johnson catman – Apologize for overlooking your comment. I did read it initially, but when I came back to check up on the thread, it must have slipped my mind.
A bit of a side track, but whenever I see pictures of Kristy Noem’s oddly reconfigured pouty-mouthed stare, I am put in mind of a little snippet from Pynchon’s Gravity’s Rainbow, in which Melvin Purvis, outside the Biograph Theatre, “felt already between his lips the penis of official commendation.”
How many immigrants are climbing up the metal fence?
People are climbing using ladders. Or they’re cutting their way through.
Which, by the way, is why spending billions of dollars on a fence, half a dozen millennia or more after the invention of the ladder, is utterly insane.
dhonig, of course.
Thing is, it appeals to his base (yay!).
Not like he has to give a shit about anything, is it?