Jesus. I am so ashamed of America right now. The spectacle of a couple of American bullies lying to a beleaguered foreign leader is shameful, and it’s going to go down in the history books as one of those moments where this country revealed itself to be on the wrong side. Trump and Vance took turns lying, accusing Zelenskyy of being the one to start the war, of not being sufficiently grateful, right to his face. It’s classic gaslighting.
It also reveals that Trump and Vance are Putin’s stooges.
Zelenskyy: What kind of diplomacy, JD, are you are asking about? What do you mean?
Vance: I’m talking about the kind of diplomacy that’s going to end the destruction of your country.
Zelenskyy: Yes, but if you …
Vance: Mr President, with respect, I think it’s disrespectful for you to come to the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the frontlines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president.
Zelenskyy: Have you ever been to Ukraine to see the problems we have?
Vance: I’ve actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people on a propaganda tour, Mr President.
Do you disagree that you’ve had problems with bringing people in your military, and do you think that it’s respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?
Zelenskyy: First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. You have nice solutions and don’t feel [it] now, but you will feel it in the future.
Trump: You don’t know that. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel. We’re trying to solve a problem. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel.
Zelenskyy: I am not telling you, I am answering …
Vance: That’s exactly what you’re doing …
Trump, raising his voice: You’re in no position to dictate what we’re going to feel. We’re going to feel very good and very strong.
Zelenskyy tries to speak.
Trump: You right now are not in a very good position. You’ve allowed yourself to be in a very bad position. You don’t have the cards right now. With us, you start having the cards.
You’re gambling with lives of millions of people, you’re gambling with world war three and what you’re doing is very disrespectful to this country.
Vance: Have you said thank you once?
Zelenskyy: A lot of times.
Vance: No, in this meeting, this entire meeting? Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who’s trying to save your country.
Zelenskyy: Yes, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war …
Trump: He’s not speaking loud. Your country is in big trouble. No, no, you’ve done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.
Zelenskyy: I know, I know.
Trump: You’re not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out OK, because of us.
Zelenskyy: We are staying strong from the very beginning of the war, we have been alone, and we are saying, I said, thanks.
Trump, speaking over Zelenskyy: You haven’t been alone … We gave you military equipment. Your men are brave, but they had our military. If you didn’t have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks.
Zelenskyy: I heard it from Putin in three days.
Trump: It’s going to be a very hard thing to do business like this.
Vance: Just say thank you.
Zelenskyy: I said it a lot of times.
Vance: Accept that there are disagreements and let’s go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it in the American media, when you’re wrong. We know that you’re wrong.
Trump: You’re buried there. Your people are dying. You’re running low on soldiers. No, listen … And then you tell us, ‘I don’t want a ceasefire. I don’t want a ceasefire. I want to go and I want this.’
Trump: You’re not acting at all thankful. And that’s not a nice thing. I’ll be honest, that’s not a nice thing.
The whole world has witnessed that disgraceful exchange. America, bully to the world, Putin’s lackey.
Staged event to humiliate Zelensky for Russian state media: https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/28/media/tass-russian-state-media-oval-office/index.html
Yes, AP and Reuters can’t get in, but Russian state media can. The TASS reporter was noticed by another journalist, not any WH staff. Only then were they removed. Claiming that a facility as secure as the White House someone could just gatecrash like this is laughable, yet this is what is claimed…
Whoa, I see the point of those abstaining from news viewing as it’s too fricken depressing. The main takeaways:
– Hopefully, it’s now evident how advanced Trumpy’s Alzheimer is. All he wants is buttering up – do as UK’s Starmer did, cringey flattery and a letter from the king (!), and he’ll be putty in your hands. No room in that poor useless head for anything else.
– Vance is getting more and more disgusting by the second and morphing in something potentially very dangerous. And he’s a blood clot away from being prez, chew on that.
– Putin is having multiple screaming orgasms right now, what his flaccid army could not deliver his orange puppet did, in spades.
– China is jumping with joy, how nice when your main opponent blows itself up with its own stupidity. Start of the chinese century? As the American one is a distant memory by now.
– Europe now really has to step up, but looking at those squabbling idiots in the various capitals one could be justified in doubting that very much. Plus, lots of Putin brown-tonguers over here too.
– the only ones retaining their honour after this horrid mess are the Ukrainians, tragic heroic figures if I ever saw any. And of course everyone is pissing on their heads.
And they say that reading the morning news is relaxing…
“– Hopefully, it’s now evident how advanced Trumpy’s Alzheimer is. All he wants is buttering up”
(sigh)
With him, “buttering up” involves doing exactly what he says, or else.
And if not, he will be vindictive. Classic extortion technique.
In this specific case, it means surrendering the war.
I doubt very very much Ukraine will surrender that meekly.
BTW, not just Europe.
Datum:
https://www.statista.com/chart/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/
[how to massage an AI]
“I appreciate your patience. You’re right, I should have picked up on the context sooner. The recent confrontation between Trump and Zelenskyy in the Oval Office, where Trump and Vice President JD Vance accused Zelenskyy of “gambling with World War III” and being disrespectful to the United States, is a clear example of mafia-like transactional extortion. This incident has drawn significant criticism and further strained US-Ukraine relations.”
An analyst on LBC got it right: Donal Trum wants a ceasefire deal because he thinks he can win Nobel peace prize with it. And he sees Zelensky as the obstacle.
Is that all?
I’m way beyond that.
I don’t even have the words for what I’m feeling right now.
Appalled and horrified is about as close as it gets.
It’s 4:45 AM here on the west coast and I’ve been up for a while.
I couldn’t sleep.
We switched sides and are now on the side of the Russians, our old enemy from the Cold War that I was born into and grew up with. Very little has changed since the USSR imploded. If anything the current regime is even worse.
I’m all but sure we are also going to leave NATO.
One of the most successful alliances in modern history.
We and NATO stared down and outlasted the evil empire of the Soviet commies. NATO freed the captive slave nations of Eastern Europe. Poland, East Germany, Hungary, the old Czechoslavakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia. Plus all the Russian empire countries such as the Baltics, Kazakhstan, Armemia.
Trump and the GOP are fixing something that isn’t broken.
This makes no sense. It’s also evil.
I’m really surprised at how slowly most of the rest of the world is taking to realize that the USA has changed.
We are now the baddies. We are now the dangerous and aggressive bully of the world.
It’s been two months and so far Trump has threatened to invade Canada and/or Mexico. Our former friends and neighbors who have done nothing to deserve being destroyed by the USA.
Changed sides and is now the enemy of Europe and Ukraine and the ally of Russia.
Drove over the NAFTA 2.0 free trade agreement with Canada and Mexico that Trump himself negotiated like it didn’t exist. The lesson here is that treaties with the USA are meaningless. They will last until we forget about them which with Trump is a day or two.
This hasn’t happened yet, but it is very likely that we are leaving NATO.
The rest of the world isn’t powerless though and they have a lot of options.
They are going to have to use those options whether they want to or not.
.1. It’s trade war time.
Canada, Mexico, and the EU are going to have to band together and make a new world without the USA.
.2. Maybe Canada can join the EU. Technically they aren’t in Europe but who cares?
There is an EEA, European Economic Association that countries like Iceland belong to.
.3. China, Mexico, and the EU might be able to tilt towards China.
I’m not a fan of China either but at least they seem more interested in developing their nation than wrecking the rest of the world.
The US really only has one thing going for it these days.
At 26% of world GDP, we are the largest economy in the world.
The EU is the world’s second largest economy at 15%.
Toss in Canada, Mexico, Australia, and a few others and the USA is evenly matched.
Trump might just as well have lowered his pants and shat on Volodymyr Zelensky. In any case, he has shown the world his arsehole — or what an arsehole he is. The USA is now self-evidently no-one’s friend. Maybe someone you would prefer not to have to count among your enemies; but many people are going to see that clip and realise that the time for fawning has passed.
What I think happened: Putin promised Donald Trump a Nobel Peace Prize, if and only if he could persuade Zelensky to surrender unconditionally, on live television, with the whole world watching. He also separately promised JD Vance a Nobel Peace Prize, jointly with Trump, on the same condition — and casually remarked that, since Nobel Prizes were only awarded to living people, there was still a chance it might end up bearing only his name.
So the meeting was set up, in the White House with the Russian media in attendance, and Vance and Trump fully expecting to earn their reward by humiliating Zelensky into surrendering. Only, Zelensky did not co-operate with the plan. You can see in the exchange the moment at which an animator would have inserted a “thought bubble” above Vance’s head, with a medal suddenly vanishing like a popped balloon. Then he turns ugly and attacks VZ. This was also when Trump joined in the attack.
The time has come now for NATO to disband, and the European Union to agree on a Common Defence Policy. This will also have to include the ejection of all US bases from all EU territories; because the only rôle remaining for the USA in Europe’s future is now someone against whom it may be necessary for them to defend themselves.
This all seems very dramatic. It’s almost like a TV show.
One of the next victims of the USA will be Canada, our neighbor and former friend to the north.
So far, Trump has insulted the Prime Minister, Trudeau, by calling him the governor of our 51st state. He’s also threatened to invade Canada and conquer it by force.
The 25% tariffs are scheduled for next week.
Canada has done absolutely nothing to provoke or deserve being invaded and destroyed.
This is pure malevolence and pure evil.
So is this going to happen?
Who knows. It might. These are dangerous megalomaniacs and psychopaths who have ended up running the USA.
.1. If we invade Canada, they will have to fight back with their military.
We could still conquer them but it wouldn’t be easy and it will cost us a lot.
The rule is that you need 3 times more forces to invade than to defend.
So really, we would be fighting a country of 40 million X 3 = 120 million in practice.
A lot of Canadian cities are near the border. A lot of US cities are also near the border.
Detroit is north of Canada.
Not being a military expert, I’m not going to be able to assess the damage to both countries but it will be a lot.
.2. What is harder than overrunning countries is occupying them.
We were unable to occupy Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan.
If the Canadians resist the US occupation, it will eventually fail.
We haven’t yet thretened to conquer Mexico.
We could do it.
Then what?
We end up with 130 million Mexicans. Most of which don’t qualify as white.
Sort of defeats the purpose of the white racists who currently run the USA.
They are trying to get rid of nonwhites, not add more to our population.
The rest of the world is going to have to wake up and deal with a failing USA run by very dangerous men.
is a clear example of mafia-like transactional extortion – John Morales
We switched sides and are now on the side of the Russians – raven
I’m wondering what Putin’s emotions were right after that meeting. I’m sure euphoria may have been a good description.
Knowing Trump, I felt that whole coming to the White house to sign a minerals agreement was a farce, it was screaming trap. Started with Trump calling Ukraine full of rare earth minerals and after some research by solid news media sources, it turned out they had minerals but not the true REM kind. Feel bad for a good guy like Zelenskyy who took Trumps bait. The only way to deal with Trump is do the opposite of whatever he says or recommends. I am amazed at his talent for setting things (people) to fall for his ruses. Or should I be depressed even intelligent people are still falling for his BS?
@ J.Morales: right you are, he’s got the mafioso mentality down to a T. But don’t forget, he’s also stupid. Like, really stooooopid. Distract him, flatter him and he’ll forget the subject and flitter-flutter on something else. Jangle a shiny object, or equivocate. Like the Mexican president did: she promised not 10, but 15000 troops at the border! Yay! In reality, her government had already decided that days before, unbeknowst to Trumpy. Basically, handle him like a Caligula Stultissimus: dangerous but manipulable.
@ bluerizlagirl: also very right, the problem is the usual inter-euro petty squabbling. Ironically, in the fifties the very first try at an united Euro front was a military alliance, with manpower and equipment pooled together, for those very same reasons. And of course it failed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_the_European_Defence_Community
classic case of past errors biting your ass off years later.
@ raven: here’s hoping you are erring on the side of pessimism. Heaven knows there’s not much to be optimistic about right now… stay strong everyone.
PS, and in America people are getting erection over the daily deportation headlines.
https://www.nj.com/education/2025/02/nj-principal-wore-trump-costume-to-school-sparking-outrage-in-town-full-of-immigrants.html
A Morris County elementary school principal’s decision to dress as President Donald Trump last week has thrown the district into turmoil, spawning social media shouting matches and furious community debate.
“My focus has always been, and will continue to be, putting children first — a fact well known to my staff and the families I serve,” he wrote.
But the problem, according to some parents, is bigger than just a costume.
Rockaway Township has a large immigrant community. Dwyer Elementary is about 33% Hispanic, according to the latest state figures.
Instead of constantly complaining, let’s petition the U.S. military to step in and remove Trump from office. Its troops have taken an oath to defend the Constitution, which Trump and his lackeys are trying to destroy. I feel the military is our only hope. Or we can refuse to pay our federal income taxes, since Trump can’t lock up a hundred million American taxpayers.
While disgusting, the Toddler-in-Chief’s temper tantrum was entirely in character. What is truly troubling is his advisors did not try to talk him down but rather egged him on. This is terrifying when one remembers the TiC has the nuclear codes.
Also too, the notion our nation has recently broken bad assumes at one time it was good. I dunno. Ask a Lakota about the morality of the USA
I’ve seen some strange shit in my life, but that was something else. Where did Vance suddenly come from? He’s been the invisible Veep for the past month. Was he trying to push back against the perception this is the Trump-Musk administration? Was he thinking he had to get his licks in to show he’s a serious player?
The MAGATs now see this is going down as well as roasting kittens on the barbecue. The faux aggrieved chest thumping about how disrespectful Zelensky was is laughable on its face. The only disrespect I saw was coming from “our” side. Sigh. Our side. It pains me to use that pronoun.
I’m going to use one of Trump’s favorite put downs : This was a disgrace.
@raven 7
Changed? The USA is the bully NOW?
Tell that to the Vietnamese, the Chileans, the Nicaraguans, the Iraqis and many MANY others.
@ laurian, #15: You know what I think about the Nuclear Codes. They’re a sham. The whole launch system is designed never to work. There are too many people involved who have a greater incentive to sabotage it than they do to make it work. Just apply a little game theory.
If the other side have fired first, you’re toast anyway, and it doesn’t really matter whether your missiles go off. But if the other side haven’t fired first, your side is trying to launch a first strike; and if it doesn’t work, and if you can prove it was you that caused it not to work, you’re the hero who saved the world from nuclear annihilation. You had one job to do, you messed it up on purpose, there was no way they could ever find out, they just have found out, and it was the best thing ever.
And it’s not like there’s just one electrician responsible for the wiring all the way from the button on the President’s desk to the missile silos. Think just how many people there must be involved in making sure that a launch is successful, and every one of whom would be better off in the exact opposite situation.
(The same is true on both sides, of course.)
@7 Raven:
I don’t think other countries picked up that Trump was now out of control. Likely they didn’t want to accept it either.
In his first term in office he said a lot of wild things but the people in the government talked him down and kept his wild suggestions under control. This time he is mentally worse (judging from what I can see) but more importantly there is nobody to keep him under control. The project 2025 people have coached him in taking power. The new head of the FBI isn’t just a corrupt pro-Republican partisan, he is a Trump flunky. This is the case for all of Trump’s new cabinet. Musk is running around like an executive appointed after a hostile take over who’s job it is to fire anybody that won’t kneel before the new throne and get rid of 25% of the staff. All of the officials who’s job it is to keep the government in line and following the law have been fired.
Vance: Mr President, with respect, I think it’s disrespectful for you to come to the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.
Really? Was it Zelenskyy’s idea to have that meeting in front of cameras?
In a way, it’s kind of good for Zelenskyy that Trump & Co. dissed him as blatantly as they did. Donald Trump is a walking sewer-main, and no one who ever gets close tom him comes away smelling like anything other than raw sewage. No one who gets close to Trump ever comes away with any honor, integrity or credibility intact. Making an actual deal with Trump would have left Zelenskyy more compromised than Russian propaganda could have made him, no matter how good a “deal” he got.
I hope he got on the next flight to Canada. They seem willing to offer him something better.
JD Vance, aka Hillbilly, is in way over his head. His ignorance of history, government, world events and basic humanity is profound. Profoundly disturbing. Profoundly dangerous.
Hillbilly: I haven’t been to Ukraine, but I’ve watched some YouTube and read stories.
It’s like, I’m not a doctor and never taken a science class but I’ve watched every episode of “House.” How utterly embarrassing.
This administration is making policy decisions on lies, fables and fiction. Every decision to date based on a lie. For example, “USAID is rife with waste, fraud and abuse, and it’s run by left wing lunatics. So, we need to shut it down and SAVE ALL THAT MONEY!” None of that is true or even close to true, but the agency is shut, people will die and Congress sits there on its collective ass doing nothing. The American people watch with indifference clutching their pearls over the price of eggs. Only TWO MONTHS in and the country is as fragile as a cheap egg. OMG, the American empire so deserves to fall.
Hillbilly: I haven’t been to Ukraine, but I’ve watched some YouTube and read stories.
“A
tinyTexas-size country of which we know nothing (and care even less)…”Heather Cox Richardson’s lead to her newsletter this morning:
As I see it, Trump and company haven’t so much as sold out to Putin as they are all part of the same criminal gang of extremely wealthy people. This oligarchy of crooks has been manipulating things for a while, largely behind the scenes, though Trump’s 2016 campaign and Brexit projected some of the gang onto center stage…who had ever heard of Robert Mercer before 2016. While oligarchy became a popular term for the cabal of rich people running things in Russia that Putin leads, the cabal is more than just Russians including US, British, Arab, and probably many others.
By the way, Mercer and daughter Bekah contributed an undisclosed amount to JD Vance’s 2022 Senate campaign, so they’re still in the game.
John Watts@16 I assume Vance was there so people will remember that he’s actually VP, and that Musk isn’t the de facto Vice President.
It was a perfect meeting, just like the perfect phone call.
Of course, the most relevant line of the entire interview is this one at the end:
TRUMP: “All right, I think we’ve seen enough. What do you think? This is going to be great television. I will say that.”
I’m becoming increasingly convinced by the folks who suggest that this was a setup for the cameras from the get-go. This sort of thing just doesn’t ever happen in meetings of world leaders in real life. The kicker was when Vance, and then Trump, suggested that Zelenskyy was the one being disrespectful: we’ve long known that whenever Republicans complain about something that their opponents do, the best guess is that it’s a confession.
This was an obcious bit of downpunching by bullies; and the folks who orchestrated it are utterly shameless, and probably think that that’s a compliment.
The good news is that most actual world leaders are lining up behind Zelenskyy. Those who aren’t are people like Putin and Orbán.
Oops: obvious, not obcious.
I think Zelensky deserves the peace price for not punching Trump in the face.
I have delusions of being a fiction writer and have a number of ‘started’ novels and short stories – and even a couple of short stories that are sort of ‘complete’. One of the consequences of the deteriorating national and world situation is an increasingly tempting delusion of a near-Jupiter-sized starship from the far far far future when humans are even better and wiser people than they think they are coming back in time to the present day. (By transiting a black hole while traveling faster than light, when it comes to delusions go big!) It is a nice distraction to contemplate Trump (et al)’s reaction to suddenly be confronted with ‘someone’ whom he is unable to dominate and is completely powerless against, and whose dislike of him and what he stands for is only exceeded by their ‘respectful of his autonomy’ compassion for how thoroughly messed up he is and in desperate need of medical and psychological intervention if he is to have any significant happiness in his remaining days. It would be satisfying seeing Trump’s reaction to clearly, blatantly, and absolutely, losing all power (except for what deference, etc., people still give him when no one has any exterior need to do so anymore). [Sadly, even with delusion-powered super-technology the damage that we’ve done to this planet is so great that it would take ‘the Futureans’ centuries to do basic repairs. We are in deep doo-doo.]
That was easily the most disgusting public performance by an American President (and Veep) I have ever seen, and I am old enough to remember Eisenhower (though I was not yet paying attention during his remarkable farewell address). I was revolted by Reagan and horrified by Shrub, but this double act … I got nothing. Nothing new or unique. Just wanted to admit that.
It may have been a trivial moment in the larger tableau but one thing stood out for me that demonstrates Trump does not belong in the Oval Office:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2025/02/28/trump-zelenskyy-vance-face-off-in-oval-office-shouting-match-heres-everything-they-said/
Trump’s cocksureness in attempting to correct Zelenskyy on that point speaks volumes about him.
N B. Yesterday was Trump’s pre-mediated exit strategy. He knows he cannot create a peace deal so he sets up Zelensky to take the blame.
“Trump’s Behaviour Was Just Surrender for America”
.https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nw_T7wsU-w8
For those who still think it wasn’t a setup:
It has been mentioned before, but Trump banned AP but allowed the Russian TASS to enter the Oval Office and film the performance.
It’s a shame it went down like that with Zelensky not wanting peace and those two were blasting him , they don’t trust him because in the past he broke a peace treaty and they don’t want him doing it again and Russia bombing us because of Ukraine
In the news: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/01/russia-trump-zelenskyy-ukraine-leader-oval-office-putin
Pullquotes:
I would say “Shame Trump Shame” but he is of course incapable of shame. Reagan spinning in his grave.
And on a relatively minor takeaway – if Vance does succeed Trump in the next year he looks like being worse than Trump –
Why does Trump expect gratitude for American help? He had nothing to do with it. In fact, he was always against it.
And why aren’t people pointing this out.
The Dumbocrats will have to steal the MAGA slogan.
Hardly surprising, since Trump has often spouted the lie about Zelenskyy’s popularity being down to only 4%, a statement that I’ve only ever seeing coming from official Russian propaganda sites. And with millions of Ukrainians being forced from their homes, and millions more engaged in battle against the Russians, the idea of calling for a national election in Ukraine only serves to question the legitimacy of the Ukraine government, words that consistently come from Trump and favours Russia on the world stage.
Trump obviously thinks he’s humiliated Zelenskyy—in reality, he’s humiliated the United States and made Zelenskyy look like (even more of) a hero.
I have been heartened by the international support for Z. I think Turnip’s attempt to show himself as a tough guy has demonstrated that he’s an idiot.
I do with Zelensky had pants’d him.
Oof. Whatever you do, don’t read Ross Douthat’s idiotic column about this. Every time I think he can’t go any lower, he meets the challenge. (I probably shouldn’t have read it either, but sometimes I like to see what the dumbest possible take is, and in that regard, Ross rarely disappoints.)
@ timgueguen – 1st March 2025 at 12:00 pm : “I assume Vance was there so people will remember that he’s actually VP, and that Musk isn’t the de facto Vice President.”
Isn’t Musk the actual POTUS in reality if not in title? Or is that Putin making Musk Veep? Hard toget things straight when how its suppsoe dto be and officiuall the case is very much NOT reality when it comes to power.
Shades of the Shadow-Shoguns & Emperors pre-Meiji Restoation if I recall my Japanese history right. .
I’m pretty sure Vance was there to ensure it was two against one.
Tag-teaming. You know Trump likes his wrestling. Kayfabe.
(Weak bullies like to gang up)
@ ^ Clarity fix : Hard to get things straight when how its supposed to be and officially the case is very much NOT reality when it comes to actual power. The fact that its not actually clear who is in charge of the USA and does appear that Trump is a figurehead who isn’t mentallycompetent to rule should be of grave concern and lead to intervention.
.***
@42. Marcus Ranum : What?
@43. DrVanNostrand : Dunno wther to ask for a link now or not..
@29. Erlend Meyer : “I think Zelensky deserves the peace price for not punching Trump in the face.”
Quoted for truth and yoiking!
Looked for that Douthat column and found this instead :
WARNING : semi-paywall /subscriber-walled Op-ed (1 free accessible one only?)
Source : https://www.heraldnet.com/opinion/trump-is-turning-the-united-states-into-a-pliant-accessory-to-vladimir-putins-war-crimes-in-ukraine/
An European perspective:
Meanwhile, up in Canada, we’re beyond pissed off: https://www.forbes.com/sites/danpontefract/2025/02/02/canada-has-always-had-americas-back-why-the-betrayal/
The UK has been hush, and apart from the German ambassador assuring us that “Germany has your back” in a brief CBC interview, the silence from our allies has been deafening.
And from Oz:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-01/we-stand-with-ukraine:-anthony-albanese-speaks-on/104998412
[need I state it outright? I am as proud of our PM you are ashamed by your POTUS]
Of course, talk is talk and walk is walk.
Myself, @ 33, I forgot to.mention;
This is a link to the British podcast ‘A Different Bias’.
He draws the same conclusion, this was pre-mediated.
“I’m really surprised at how slowly most of the rest of the world is taking to realize that the USA has changed.”
Only someone with the U.S’s myopia could write something like that. The rest of the world knows full well you’re now ruled (not governed) by a Russian agent, and your country is a vassal of the new Russian Imperial state. WE KNOW IT, but you elected him, and follow his commands. It’s the U.S that is lacking here – he’s not our responsibility, he’s yours.
I wrote:
I do with Zelensky had pants’d him.
God damn it, I wish Zelensky had pants’d him.
But only because “obliterating his face with a tire iron” would be too graphic.
@ ^ Marcus Ranum : Ah. Thanks. That makes sense now.
… Trump and Vance are Putin’s stooges.
I consider that an insult to Moe, Larry, Curly, Shemp, and the rest.
It occurs to me we have available an acronym for the current triumvirate of US power, and a readily altered tune with it –
I am wondering if Vance was there as well as musk because dump can no longer be trusted to be on the public stage for fear of everyone seeing how far he has deteriorated and how dumb he really is.
then again I do tend to reach for straws hoping to find some rational explanation. They may be “pushing for peace” because Putin is really in a much worse condition then he is letting on. is that wishful thinking? I hope not but probably to some degree or other.
Well, I concur with you. 100%.
Russia’s demographics are fucked — nevermind the huge number that left when its invasion started, or the mob that got away during the mobilisation. They’ve raided their prisons as much as they can (only the smart ones left) and whatnot.
Their labour force is fucked; enterprises doing military stuff get the money and pay more, though that output is pissed away in warlike bullshit.
Inflation is going up, interest rates the same, wartime economy in place so that regular business must match the guaranteed profits of warmakers. Etc.
Reserves running low, money running low, manpower (sorry, not being sexist here) running down, equipment stockpiles almost gone, greymarket inputs into the economy not keeping up, etc. etc.
Russia is fucked, in a year or two, so it really, really needs Trump’s help to short-circuit its inevitable end.
(If this is so obvious to me, imagine how it is to professionals.
Doing something about it, well… obs, I can not)
Look. I don’t mean to poke the class clown with a stick, because we all know how unsufferable the reaction is, but C’MON I cannot be the only one who finds this absolutely hilarious. X-D
‘
Relax. You haven’t.
<q>I cannot be the only one who finds this absolutely hilarious. X-D</q>
Funny as fuck, it is.
(I actually keep up)
So. You and I, a room.
It’s been said a few times now, bobiferant.
Let me be blunt.
You are my tick. My sap sucker. You are a parasite upon me.
A fuck faced shit stain.
Your fifth year of trying to snipe at me.
(Wanna get a room? You and me. Let’s fucking go for it, O pissant)
—
Yeah. Five years of shitposting by you is enough.
Hey, ‘silentbob’ thing, how about you and the Beebee pair up on me?
You can be Trump, and beebee can be vance.
Wanna have a go?
(I’m game)
I have two words for you all:
Molotov-Ribbentrop
If you don’t recognize their meaning, Google it,.
Postscript (Crossposted with the infinite thread)
‘Brave’ Vance runs away from his own countrymen
Vance Shows Republicans How to Hide from American Public
.https://youtube.com/watch?v=fWMexEDjuIE
This is the dude who told European leaders they were afraid of the criticism of their own people.
The Trump/Musk regime has claimed another victim.
The US economy.
It has been two months and Trump has managed to wreck the US economy.
The chaos and uncertainty isn’t good for the economy.
You can’t plan to build a factory costing $1 billion and taking 2 years to build when the US government’s economic plans change every day.
The tariffs and trade wars aren’t going to be good for the economy either.
No one is exactly sure what will happen but it won’t be good.
Our imports will cost more which is inflationary.
Our exports will go down which will increase unemployment and decrease GDP.
PS A lot of companies are betting that the tariffs will be temporary.
The economy will die and the stock market will crash.
What is left of the GOP’s brain, the hindbrain, will notice that their puppet masters, Wall Street, the banks, and the oligarchies, aren’t happy.
They have violated the First and only commandment.
Thou shall not make us lose money!!!
China isn’t doing so well either these days.
Their economy isn’t growing fast and unemployment among young adults is high.
Their fertility rate is 1.2 children, way below replacement of 2.1.
Marriage rates are collapsing, down 20% in a year.
Which means that their already low birth rates are also going to get a lot lower.
So what does the marriage rate in China have to do with the Trump Catastrophe?
In these chaotic and disastrous times, people are going to think twice and three times about having children. Who would want to be born into the USA of March, 2025, when things are only going to get worse?
The USA fertility rate is 1.79, below replacement of 2.1.
I will predict it will be lower yet in the next few years.
I’m glad someone is figuring it out.
Now you just have to tell your elected governments that this is the case.
The rest of the world is going to have to band together and deal with the mindless giant that the USA has become. We are the modern day Godzilla or King Kong. Collectively, the EU, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Japan, etc.. are equal to the USA or even stronger.
BTW, Trump is a bully.
If you confront him directly, face to face, a lot of the time he will back down.
If you don’t confront him, he will run right over you.
Sort of went off the rails here.
.1. We didn’t elect him.
We all voted for Harris with a few cuckoo exceptions.
.2. We aren’t following his commands either.
We are in the way of the fascists as much as possible.
They want us to shut up and obey.
No.
.3. he’s not our responsibility, he’s yours.
What???
Trump and Musk are your problems, whether you like it or not. It’s reality.
You, meaning the rest of the world, are going to have to deal with him or get run over.
They are also huge problems for the 346 million Americans.
And we will also have to deal with it, whether we like it or not.
One good news is that Europe has been providing most of the help anyways. So as long as Trump does not actually try to help Russia by removing sanctions or disallowing Europeans to give help to Ukraine, they could still win in the long run.
So basically, the stupid dumbass Donl Trm both overestimates the power of Russia and the amount of US help to Ukraine.
Also, it’s my understanding that a lot of the help US has provided to Ukraine has come with a lot of dumb stupid strings attached to it. It really bothers me to listen to otherwise good people who are clueless morons on the topic (like the Majority Report) who think US has been giving everything to Ukraine. Biden shares a lot of blame for how the last two years of fighting has been going. They should have provided help with no restriction on the range and what not.
PZ, please do not describe this as bullying. Accurate or not, you have to mind your framing. When you describe it as bullying, Republican voters reading this interpret that as “Trump strong.” You need to frame it as a show of weakness and bowing to Putin, because that framing does not reinforce the world view of fascists (excuse me, “Republican” is the politically-correct term for fascist now, right?).
A few reminders for everyone:
Most of the money we spend on Ukraine gets spent here in the USA (it mostly goes to American military contractors). The money stays in our economy.
Most of the munitions were are sending are old and would have had to be disposed of anyway. That disposal costs money, so we would have been spending money either way.
Supporting Ukraine promotes American interests. Not helping Ukraine promotes Russian interests. Once again, we find that when Republicans say “America first,” what they really mean is Russia first. In case you are a Republican and don’t believe me, people in other countries are starting to protest Russian embassies because they are mad about things Trump is doing. The world knows that the USA now bends the knee to Russia.
weylguy @ 14. I’ve been thinking the same thing. As far as the oath to protect and defend the Constitution, all federal employees take the same oath. Unfortunately, the military is better-funded than they are. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’m no longer a federal employee, but I am a conservation biologist. Protection is what we do!
@60 John Morales: The Ukrainians are aware of that also. The last industry bringing in a lot of foreign money is oil and the Ukrainians are blowing up every bit they can reach. There is some in the far east they can’t reach but the Ukrainians have blown up enough that Russia doesn’t have enough refinery and distribution for military, civilian and export at the same time. This forces them to make some really tough choices.
@68 raven
Not gonna lie, below replacement birth rates in general are great news, hopefully this escalates globally.
raven@69:
There’s an old quote (often misattributed to Will Rogers, but apparently originally from a journalist named Walter Trumbull) that “Diplomacy frequently consists in soothingly saying ‘Nice doggie’ until you have a chance to pick up a rock.”
Canada has a very, very long history of watching the U.S. twist treaties in its favour and re-interpret the details of previous discussions when they don’t like the results. We are very familiar with the above sentiment.
It’s worth noting that with Trump’s original tariff threats a month ago that got deferred, he’d originally threatened 25% tariff on everything… except oil from Alberta, which only got 10%. And yet even Alberta, our own ‘Texas North’, and the one deliberately given an exception by Trump… the current Premiere of the province (who’s an anti-vaxxer and was just fine with a lot of ‘trucker’ rallies during the pandemic) was still pissed off and considered this a betrayal by the U.S. This whole mess has been pissing off even what allies Trump used to have in positions of power here. The fact that Trump actually went and supported Poilievre has (thankfully) not been helping the latter’s election chances.
Ford won in Ontario, and he did so at least in part because he was campaigning on being strong against Trump. (Ford may wish he had Trump’s power, but he’s smart enough to know he can’t get it and still get elected here.) Of course, Ford also knows that since Ontario is the core of the auto industry in Canada, we’re going to get hit the hardest by some of the tariffs in question.
Ford took away my doctor.
Ford can go fuck himself.