“just a little bit fascist”

Jewish citizens of Israel are organizing watch parties, standing on hills to observe bombs and missiles exploding in Palestinian communities. This woman talks about the only solution, to wipe out their entire city.

Lady, I think you’re a lot fascist. The phrase “never again” ought to be universally applicable to all peoples, but Israel has a rather narrower interpretation.


  1. Akira MacKenzie says

    Seems the only thing the Israeli’s learned from the Holocaust was how to be genocidal bullies themselves.

  2. HidariMak says

    I’ve never felt that sort of “rah rah rah” enthusiasm over the idea of bombing areas with civilians, no matter where it is, especially after seeing the movie “Grave of the Fireflies”. It’s a Japanese movie which treats the firebombing of their countryside as just another natural disaster when it comes to assigning blame, and has a much harsher view on the attitudes of the Japanese and how they deal with it. And the psychopathy of packing a picnic lunch to watch the bombing of civilian areas, is a level of evil that the movie did not have to sink to.

  3. raven says

    Neitzsche had something to say about this.

    Friedrich Nietzsche:

    “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster… for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

    There seem to be more than enough monsters around.

  4. pick says

    What stops them from from rounding up the Palestinians, taking them to concentration camps and gassing them?
    I suppose bombing and psychopathic mayhem are just more their style.
    Is it religion or politics? I’m not a psychologist yet I can’t help but look at some people with a kind of clinical perspective. I’ve come to understand that psychopathy will ride any horse to justify and rationalize a cruelty that other “normals” can’t even imagine.
    If we ever wanted to know what evil is, this is it.

  5. mordred says

    And here in Germany as soon as a public figure even calls Israel an apartheid state, he’s called an antisemit and treated like he called for another final solution.

    It’s generally a good thing Germany has learned to be really touchy when it comes to antisemitism, but who the fuck decided that Israel’s fascist government is the heart and soul of judaism?

  6. Alverant says

    I remember something (I think it was in the God Delusion) about how students in Isreal were told about an Asian warlord who destroyed whole villages. The students thought it was horrible. One said they should at least keep the animals. Then they were given the same story but the warlord was one of the ancient Israelites. Suddenly those actions are justified.

  7. moarscienceplz says

    I wonder when Israel will embrace the efficiency of gas chambers and crematory ovens.
    Also, Jerry Coyne, you are a blind fool and an arrogant tool.

  8. pick says

    @moarscienceplz –
    Tell me that you criticized Israel on Coyne’s “website”.
    They’re a virulent bunch-as hateful as they come.

  9. timmyson says

    Is “hurt peoples hurt peoples” a useful lens through which to view this? Not as an excuse, but a recognition of a contributing factor? And Israel’s increasingly vicious behaviour contributing to isolation, and provides some cover for the growing anti-Semitism around the world in a feedback effect.
    I feel like someone has probably done sociological work around this and oppressed groups oppressing other groups and the perpetuation of that cycle of violence.

  10. raven says

    I wonder when Israel will embrace the efficiency of gas chambers and crematory ovens.

    They’ve already got a concentration camp.


    Academic Norman Finkelstein on Gaza, “the World’s Largest …https://theintercept.com › 2018/05/20 › norman-finkelst…

    May 20, 2018 — Blacklisted Academic Norman Finkelstein on Gaza, “the World’s Largest Concentration Camp”. The son of holocaust survivors talks about war …

    There are 600,000 people in Gaza.
    It’s hard to get into or out of. Access is controlled by Israel.
    Not much in the way of economy or quality of life.

    Even some Israeli Jews are skeptical about what Gaza has become.

  11. Artor says

    Timmyson @11, that might have applied a few decades ago, but now the vast majority of Israelites have no personal memory of the holocaust or other pogroms. Yet they seem bound and determined to repeat history.

  12. Becky Smith says

    In Pedagogy of the Oppressed, Paulo Freire writes, “The oppressed, instead of striving for liberation, tend themselves to become oppressors.”

  13. says

    Is Israel still the recipient of the most US foreign aid? If so, why? We don’t need them, and they really don’t need us as much as they may (or may not) have in the past.

  14. specialffrog says

    @Raging Bee: The US may not need Israel but the reverse is not true. US aid has allowed Israel to avoid most of the economic cost of the occupation. I think the last US president to use this as leverage was George Bush Sr, and it did get Israel to temporarily take negotiations seriously.

    @timmyson: I would be hesitant to claim a connection between rising anti-Semitism and Israeli actions. Some of Israel’s most vocal backers are anti-Semitic Christians who are motivated by a combination of apocalyptic prophesy and a desire to get Jewish people out of their own countries — the latter being the main motivation for Britain to support the creation of Israel in the first place.

  15. drew says

    I think that’s treating fascists unfairly, actually. Even Germans tried to ignore those odd smells from the camps. And they were more vicious than the Italians.

  16. KG says

    Yes, but how many of those demonstrators have opposed the systematic denial of Palestinian rights, the illegal settlement and annexation of territories seized in war (something they were doing when Putin was a schoolboy), terrorist bombings and kidnappings abroad…? Over the past decades Israeli politics has shifted further and further right, so it should be no surprise they are now on the brink of a fascist dictatorship – but it has all been consonant with the racist nature of the state: in the long term, you can’t be both an ethnostate and a democracy.

  17. microraptor says

    Raging Bee @15: The Evangelicals will never allow the US to stop giving aid to Israel. They need it to exist for their religious delusions.

  18. whywhywhy says

    The Art of War should be required reading. If the humane treatment of humans is beyond them, maybe they should understand that they are cornering millions of people and a cornered enemy will fight back as hard as they can. They have nothing to lose. This is not desirable.

  19. silvrhalide says

    Such fine young Nazis. One wonders if the picnic they packed was kosher.

    I’m not sure why anyone is surprised at this behavior though. It exists in all cultures, at all times in history.

    White Americans used to pack picnic lunches for lynchings of black men (mostly–black women were lynched too, just not in the same numbers.). People would buy souvenir postcards or photos, or steal body parts or clothes of the victims.
    White people would bring their kids to the lynchings. Because they were considered family events. Hence the picnics.

    Nazi Germans would steal the possessions of Jews but they also had a slang name for the German soldiers who would rape Jewish prisoners–the “joy division”–before killing them. They would also humiliate and torture Jews by forcing them to run around naked, to “confirm their fitness for work”. In some cases they would gather Jews and stack them one on top of another and beat them, frequently to death. (The Jews on the bottom of the pile were frequently crushed to death by the weight of the pile.)

    The Japanese considered–and some still do–the Ainu and Koreans subhuman and treat them accordingly. Many of the so-called “comfort women” kidnapped and raped by Japanese soldiers were Ainu and Korean.
    In the rape of Nanking, the Japanese soldiers raped all the Chinese women they could find when they sacked the city, then killed them and took pictures.

    When the Turks forced the Armenians into a death march, they would take young women out of the march, rape them and crucify them. Historians and journalists of the time noted that you could see the crucified women all along the path of the march, their long hair blowing in the wind. The rank and file Turkish citizens said nothing and did nothing. The term genocide was coined to describe what the Turks did to the Armenians, because there was no word to describe such plans and actions previously.

    The Islamic State carried out genocide against the Yazidi people in 2010. Many Yazidi women and girls were kidnapped and sold into slavery and many of them are still missing/held in captivity/slavery to this day.

    All the people who said “never again” more or less just sat back and watched the Rwandan genocide of the Tutsis and the “ethnic cleansing” of Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia-Herzegovina. UN peacekeepers my ass.

    Palestinian radicals tried to murder the entire royal family of Jordan, succeeded in killing Abdullah I, which is why the royal Jordanian family expelled all Palestinians to the West Bank.

    Bibi had better watch his ass. The rest of the planet is catching on. Among other things, he is a war criminal.


  20. silvrhalide says

    @3 No thank you. Barefoot Gen already left me wanting to slit my wrists. I suspect Grave of the Fireflies is something you really need to work up to.

    @3, 7 You might find Das Herz von Jenin (The Heart of Jenin) interesting viewing.

    @13 The survivors of the Shoah are dying out but there are plenty of families who have direct experience with the Holocaust in the form of missing relatives at family gatherings and holidays. I spent part of my late teenage years watching guys with numbers tattooed on their arms playing chess in Washington Square Park. It leaves an impression. I suspect it left an impression on their kids and grandkids who grew up with a mom or dad who had a lot of nightmares and a numbered tattoo on their arms. Or who didn’t have aunts and uncles or grandparents or extended family like other kids had.

    You don’t have to put a burning cross on the front lawn of every black family or home to affect an entire community or neighborhood. Or even the neighborhood or communities of people who aren’t black. The subtext of “you could be next” is unspoken but clearly understood.

  21. John Morales says

    silvrhalide, anyone who is even slightly familiar with history knows that this sort of stuff is not new. Not even slightly. And I note that because all of your examples are about recent history.

    The other side of the coin is that, these days, sometimes, that sort of thing is deprecated.

    (Five steps forward, four steps back type of thing)

  22. says

    I guess Twitter can’t stand the thought of an Israeli confessing to support fascism. It’s blocked the tweet flagging it as violating the rules.

  23. hemidactylus says

    @25- silvrhalide
    All Palestinians were expelled to the West Bank by Jordan after Abdullah I’s assassination? Cite?

    The PLO and friends would much later be expelled to disrupt Lebanon by King Husayn, but I was under the assumption there’s no abrupt discontinuity of Palestinian presence in Jordan, though their status may be less than desirable.



    Which signifies no such expulsion after the assassination but “1971 King Hussein, fearing the growing influence of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, cracked down on Palestinian nationalists (Black September). Over 3,000 Palestinians were killed and some 20,000 fled Jordan.”

    And here: https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/military-review/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20160228_art011.pdf

    “The history of Palestinians in Jordan has been marred by discrimination and conflict. Notably, the state’s first king, Abdullah I, was assassinated by a Palestinian in 1951, and Jordan used military force to expel the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) together with thousands of PLO supporters during the 1970s’ Jordanian civil war, known as Black September.8”

  24. Akira MacKenzie says

    @ 28

    I guess Twitter Elon can’t stand the thought of an Israeli confessing to support fascism. It’s blocked the tweet flagging it as violating the rules.


  25. says

    @30: Exactly.

    @26: Barefoot Gen…that scene with Gen’s mother begging for milk for Tomoko and that woman saying that the baby would be better off dead. That entire scene tears me apart every time.