I have never been so flattered in my life. Usually the angry MGTOWs and MRAs just call me a beta cuck, but I’ve now discovered what they really, secretly think of me. Dave Futrelle reports on what MGTOWs say about women: they don’t like sex at all, they don’t want it, they don’t get even a little tingle out of it, with one exception. That is, if their partner is a top 5% male like Chad Thundercock
.
Women are always saying they love sex but in my experience they are completely f**king frigid and really low sex drive unless you are already having sex with them. They never, ever really ACTIVELY pursue or initiate sex with a stranger because they really just don’t care about it, unless its to get something out of a man, like love, affection, dinners, cards, romance.
They are so completely disinterested in sex and stuck up about it , it makes me f**king sick. This is why they can charge such a heavy price for it, because they really don’t want it and really don’t need it.
A top 5% male like Chad Thundercock may have pussy literally thrown at him though. I am not him, so I wouldn’t know.
Since I happen to intimately know a woman with a perfectly normal, healthy sex drive, I have to assume I must be one of those rare studly types who elicits that kind of response. The alternative is that all those pontificators have either never actually interacted with a woman, or perhaps are so repulsive that women’s libidos wilt away in their presence…but that can’t possibly be true. They’re bold, independent, strong men, right?
Of course, it’s also possible that she’s been putting on an act to get glamorous gifts from me. It is her birthday today, you know, so maybe it’s because she knows she’s getting a spectacular present. I’m getting her a dehumidifier for the basement. It’s a very Chad Thundercock sort of gift.
I’ll tell you another secret that we Chads all know, though. She’s not quite 60 years old today. If I had a time machine and could go back to talk to myself when I was 18, when I was dating Mary when she was a young nubile hottie, and my wrinkly grey-bearded self were to tell me that I was going to grow old with her, and that I’d still be with her when she was over 60, my young self would have felt such awesome joy — the same joy I feel now, that we’d be together even in our old age.
Of course, then old me would bring out my phone — that would be dazzling right there — and show young me a photo that would reveal she’s just going to get better and become a mature nubile hottie, and even my shallower impulses would be gratified.
But then, we fortunate Chads are always getting lucky.
This is news to me.
Wait, so we can’t date for casual sex, and we also can’t date for love and affection? The fuck am I supposed to do–vanish in a puff of smoke?
Happy Birthday, Mary.
Hope you got some flowers to go with that dehumidifier, Chad.
Happy Birthday to Mary.
I’m sorry – cards?
Being a Chad is fine, PZ, as long as you’re not a dangling chad.
I worked with a guy once who had problems getting the attention he wanted from the ladies. He absolutely hated women and made disparaging remarks about every woman he saw. Sometimes he would make up little rape fantasies about women on the sidewalk when we were driving. Because they deserved it for being female.
He was a disturbing individual, and after about 2 weeks of working with him I went to my boss and asked for a different partner to work with.
We were in our twenties then, and I’d like to think people like that grow out of that attitude.
@SC,
Credit cards, I’m guessing. Unless this is a really intense game of bridge.
may have pussy literally thrown at him
I had that happen, once. Well, actually, it jumped from the top of the refrigerator. And it hung by a couple claws from my cheek. The scars are mostly faded, now.
#Stillpuzzledwhyanyonewouldwantpussythrownatthem
I’m a bit unclear on the mechanics and I’m not sure I see the appeal.
Happy birthday to your wife, PZ.
And congratulations on your TOTALLY ALPHA humidifier-based seduction skills.
So the claim is that the only people who actually like sex are the ones who actively pursue strangers? So, in his universe, actual sex is never good enough that anyone would want to have sex with the same person twice.
Or is he only trying to define female desire out of existence, while admitting that men who proposition people they already know, or say “that was really good, would you like to do it again?” are sincere?
Happy birthday Mary! She obviously lucked out by getting her claws into an associate professor of Biology. Life of luxury right there… “Chad Thundercock” is completely oblivious of how he’s being used
Has he ever considered that maybe women just don’t like having sex with HIM?
Women are always saying they love sex with other guys other than me but in my experience they are completely f**king frigid and really low sex drive with me unless you are already having sex with them (what?). They never, ever really ACTIVELY pursue or initiate sex with me, especially if I’m a stranger because they really just don’t care about it with me, unless its to get something out of a man, like love, affection, dinners, cards, romance but I don’t give them any of those things, I guess.
They are so completely disinterested in sex with me and stuck up about it , it makes me f**king sick. This is why they can charge such a heavy price for it, because they really don’t want it with me and really don’t need it. with me
A top 5% male like Chad Thundercock may have pussy literally thrown at him though. I am not him, so I wouldn’t know.
I have to wonder why they chose the name, Chad, as the target of their vitreol. Of the entire Thundercock clan, only Chadwick is singled out. It’s very… odd. Won’t someone share some hate with Emily Thundercock or Duane Thundercock?
Am I reading this right? Because if they’re paying for it, I think I can see why they have such a problem finding enthusiastic partners. Enthusiasm from workers in a certain industry usually costs extra, so I understand.
It could be that they’re talking of a heavy metaphorical price, but I kinda doubt it.
and Jeremy
(youtub video)
Man, I know a lot of women, some of them are on this forum, who detest the idea of having children. It’s like they grew up on a planet without women and learnt about them from scrawls on bathroom walls.
5% is an interesting number. It lets them pretend that they are in the majority of men, but gives them a large enough category when they run into men that don’t have their problem. Which is, of course, not what they think it is. I imagine that most straight women aren’t terribly enthused by a man who sees sex as some kind of transaction, and who assumes that making a woman feel aroused is a skill that some men are just born with and most are not.
I also suspect that most of the men they talk to are of similar mindsets, and those they group as Chad Thundercocks are not men they talk to enough (and they overlook a lot of men who, for instance, aren’t getting a wide variety of women propositioning them because they are long-term monogamous with the love of their lives, like PZ).
Well . . . ah . . . hmp.
How just, well . . . how utterly *weird*.
I have commented a couple of times in this forum that I was nerd-weirdo who didn’t lose his virginity until 23. And yet, even while I was a virgin, I still liked women. And when I was devirginated (after learning a few social skills — not PUA techniques, just *normal* social skills) I found that women, the ones who would have sex with me, WERE STILL LIKE ME. And now that I am 59 (we share a birth-year PZ), I am still finding that women do like and will have sex, and for many different reasons. Love, fun, physical relaxation, experimentation, friendship, and, yes, paying off various kinds of debts, too. And I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that I’ve never had sex with a woman who didn’t want it. (Why? Well, I respect the power and intimacy of sex, and was always careful to have sex only when I wanted it myself, and so I gave the same consideration to my partners.)
But this poster, these people . . . they’re just weird and disturbing.
Happy birthday, Mary!
My granddaughter is 1 today. She shares a birthday with a fine lady.
Happy OneCircuitDay to magistramarla’s Granddaughter.
@9 Igneous Rick:
The mechanics are pretty simple— you pick up the pussy by its midsection (one hand under the front legs usually does it), sweep it into the air in the direction of the person who needs a pussy thrown at him and let go at the apex of the sweep. Contrary to common wisdom, you should not pick up the pussy by its scruff. Although kittens are traditionally carried by their scruffs, it can be harmful to adult pussies.
As for the appeal? I can’t speak for other people, and I’ve only been the thrower so I have no personal experience in being the throwee or the pussy so I won’t speculate. I found it immensely satisfying as a way of (a) removing the pussy from my room and (b) getting back at my roommate for letting their pussy into my room.
That may be the craziest shit I have ever seen in my life. So wrong, on every level. I could go into detail, but it’s late on the eastern seaboard, and I need to sleep. And it’s not worth the effort because the complaint is just too fucking stupid for words.
And people wonder why I’m cynical.
@ 23 Jake Harban
Thanks for clarifying. I was imagining something more like a trebuchet, but that seemed like an awful lot of work.
Jake Harban #23
That’s just repulsive.
“All women are frigid and have a low sex drive” really means “I am such a bad lay that women cannot muster enough enthusiasm or interest to lie convincingly about my prowess.”
@18 gijoel:
Having read Bujold’s novel Ethan of Athos, I think these people would have turned out better if that were the case.
Don’t try this at home. In Gormenghast, the Earl’s valet, Flay, throws one of Countess Gertrude’s white cats at arch-villain Steerpike for mimicing the mad Earl’s facial expression, and is exiled from the castle as a result!
And Happy Birthday to Mary!
Happy Birthday, Mary!
And now you spoiled the surprise.
I think that Gregory #27 hit the nail on the head.
Happy birthday, Mary! Enjoy your gift, although I’ll be getting my wife an opposite device, come winter solstice.
As for chasing pussy, our Russian Blue and I play tag from time to time. If he misjudges a turn going around the house, it can be humorous. If I misjudge speed going into a turn, it gets rather loud as I slam into a wall.
When he gets tired of playing, he’ll jump into the bay window.
He’s got us pretty well trained.
My wife tolerates it, at least once I’m tired, I don’t claw up the furniture.
People: the “have pussy literally thrown at him” comment in the original is repellent objectification. Could we not have jokes riffing on the humor of throwing people around by their genitals?
We don’t have the dehumidifier yet — it’s shipped, though, and arrives tomorrow.
We are very excited.
I find it really interesting how a modern stereotype is developing here that paints women as the ones with a low sex drive. Traditionally, going back thousands of years, the misogynistic stereotyping went the other way. The women in Aristophanes’ gender comedies tend to all be rampant nymphomaniacs, adulteresses and drunkards, the idea being that women are naturally less rational and able to control their desires than men. Juvenal’s sixth satire portrays them as sex mad and going to any lengths possible to sleep with available men when they can (the famous “who watches the watchmen?” phrase comes from this satire, referring originally to the men you set to guard your wife from her illicit lovers). Medieval medical manuscripts attribute the higher female sex drive to their naturally hotter and wetter constitutions, and medieval pornographic stories tend to have women as insatiable sex fiends.
I would guess that this modern stereotype stems largely from Victorian era prudery and idealised sexless images of women. It amuses me to see how two exactly opposite misrepresentations of women can be used for exactly the same kind of misogyny.
I agree with most comments here, the Chad-guy is a misogynist idiot. But still, I think I understand some of the sexual frustration behind his problems. As the women he disparages, he is also a victim of human sexuality himself. It is not a problem that should be just ridiculed, as sexual frustration sometimes drives the worst of men even to violence. The conversation could be a bit more constructive, as the people here have the open-minded attitudes to tackle such problems. I congratulate PZ for his long and happy marriage and I love his pride over his family, but a lot of people are not that lucky in their life. So, despite the facetiousness, it kind of seems flaunting your good fortune in the face of those less fortunate. After all, a warm and happy sexual relationship is much desired, but hardly typical in this world.
I don’t know about any research conducted in the US, but at least where I come from, studies indicate the average libido of men and women differs greatly. Of course, individual sex drive varies a lot, whether one is male or female and whatever the sexual preference or orientation is. Nevertheless, the results clearly indicate that while on the average most females seem to be fairly satisfied with their sex life, the average male seems to be getting about half of the sexual intercourses he wishes for. So, according to these results, a lot of men live in a state of constant deprivation of sex. I think this has a lot to do with bigotry and many men generally acting like assholes around the world. The Austrian psychiatrist Wilhelm Reich blamed much of the rise of fascism on sexual frustration, and these sentiments aren’t rare today among the Trump supporters and European right-wingers.
Of course, women shouldn’t be receiving any crap about this. No one is required to have sex with anyone, and no one should be criticized about that. Let alone an entire sex. It is utterly infantile to blame women and come up with these frat boy theories about female sex drive.
But, while I don’t sympathize with the Chad-guy, I sort of understand his frustration. Being a shy and introverted man, I have lived most of my life in an involuntary celibacy. Reminiscing my younger years, I almost never made sexual advances to women. Out of common courtesy, I assumed they did not wish to be bothered. Women very seldom initiated a flirtatious conversation with me. Being a writer and a decent conversationalist, I did and do sometimes befriend people on an intellectual level. But then again, having befriended a female, sex was off the table, as several female friends of mine have told me, hyperbolically, that nothing is more disgusting than a male friend indicating sexual interest in them. So, all a shy and polite heterosexual man can do is wait for a woman to make a sexual pass at him. In my case, this happened about once in every 3-5 years. In my marriage, this hasn’t happened in eight years, so I have been forced to live in celibacy. My wife prefers to live without sex, and I would never risk breaking up my kid’s home by having extramarital sex, as my spouse would disapprove it.
And yet, my heterosexual male sex drive does exist, and does cause me sexual frustration. I’m very happy with the libido-reducing side effects of most anti-depressants, and I would certainly welcome any pill that would remove human libido altogether, or most of it at least. The world is full of interesting things besides sexuality. And I hate the fact that like many other, also I have been wasting so much time thinking about sex, when I could have used the time more productively.
So, while I’m not asking for sympathy towards any MRA-Chads, the human sex drive is a major problem in the world. And I don’t think it’s just a bad social contract that makes some sex-depraved young men behave appallingly towards women. Here in Scandinavia, that kind of trash talk about women is not socially accepted, so it is not so ubiquitous. But it would be dishonest to say those sentiments are non-existent. Now they seem to have found a home in the right-wing movements, and can’t just be laughed off. Not that I have any better solution to offer. Maybe some of the other commenters do.
If it wasn’t likely to be a shitty/dangerous situation for the sex worker I would totally recommend that guys with this attitude go see a sex worker. I think they would be happier.
They treat sex as transactional anyway might as well go wholehog and be honest about it.
@PZ Myers, 33:
I think the jokes thus far have been riffing on the absurdity of tossing a cat at people. You know, a pussycat. Seems like a fun way to poke fun at a horrible comment, so long as no one is actually throwing cats at MRAs. It would be cruel to the cats.
Also, if Dave Futrelle is concerned that many women don’t feel free to have sex with strangers, he might want to consider what he can do to lessen the social stigma and victim blaming that discourages women who might otherwise enjoy more sex with strangers. Oh wait, he doesn’t actually care about women or see us as people with our own interests and desires? Well, that explains a lot.
borealis @36
So many ewwwws.
Blaming all the worlds problems on “dudes not getting laid enough”, even if the studies you mention are correct is just wrong. Can you think about how society’s attitude toward sex might influence responses to any such survey? Women who have a lot of sex are labeled as dirty and men who do the same are “Alpha males”. Who is going to be more willing to admit or inflate their sex drive?
Saying people who aren’t getting the sex they want as “less fortunate”? and “the human sex drive is a major problem in the world” Really? I know it sucks not to get laid and understand the frustration, but you share a lot in common with the author of the piece is equating sex as the only important thing women bring to the table.
borealis, you befriended a female what?
@malta, anticipating the objection, I merely mentioned tag with our Lord cat and master. I figured that was a bit better than pussyfooting around the entire subject.
As for the Chad Thunderarse fan, with his attitude, it’s trivial to see why every self-respecting woman on the planet ignores him.
Still, there is one upside to stories like this. We now have a non-tragic category for a Darwin Award, self-removal from the breeding population via disgusting all potential mates away from one’s presence.
Here’s the key word: .
Which simply means they don’t buy his crappy pickup routine.
@malta #38:
A clarification: Futrelle is not the guy making the misogynistic comments, he’s the blogger mocking them.
That is the method the mildly deranged penguin prefers to use to launch the kittys on their flying lessons. However, in this case, she suggests the appropriate response to encountering this creep is that of the chimpanzees’s: Fling poo.
Well, you only have to build the cat-trebuchet once. Once you’ve built one, you can throw as many cats as you want.
@borealis (36): Newsflash — shyness can be overcome. It is NOT the same as introversion. I am an extreme introvert, but I am no longer shy.
Really; I was intensely shy as a young adult, but found to function well in my chosen profession I had to get over it. Take a class on public speaking or join a public speaking club. You will learn a useful skill and learn to get over your shyness.
There is also no reason not to try to initiate a romantic relationship with a woman friend you admire for her intelligence and with whom you have many interests in common. You’ve been given bad advice. She may say no, which you should graciously accept, and then back off. But there is no harm in trying. The key is to initiate a ***romantic*** relationship; that does NOT begin with “Hey, how about we go to my place, have a drink, and screw?”
Finally, nobody gets everything they want in life. That’s life. You can get more of what you want, if you are willing to extend yourself and learn how to be social. You can also sit by your computer and moan about your situation. Your call, guy.
I too liked the discussion about launching pussycats. It seems like a fun way to make fun of the original whiner, though I agree with a previous commenter that I wouldn’t launch a kitty at him; that wouldn’t be good for the kitty. (Though Maria-cat, sleeping nearby at the moment, is very well-armed and has the right sort of attitude…)
borealis
Gross, dude, really gross.
Won’t somebody think of the poor misogynist idiot?
Fuck that shit, he’s not a “victim” of anything
Yes, it absolutely does. But the problem is entitled violent dudes.
Like what? How? How exactly should we be open minded towards dudes who think I solely exist to satisfy their sexual desires?
And half of them are female. Yet you don’t find women writing bullshit like that.
Get off your cross.
Yeah, because that’s something you can measure like speed and is totally not influenced by social attitudes.
Because women saying they want more sex has absolutely no stigma attached while men saying they’re getting all the sex they want totally doesn’t make them look impotent by the dominant discourse.
That is not a thing.
Do tell.
You mean like blaming 60 million dead and the current rise of neo fascism on women not dutifully fucking men?
I think it’s OK to feel bad for the misogynist being caught in a prison of his own making. No one is entitled to a romantic relationship with any particular person. However, we are entitled to be socialized in such a way that we have a realistic chance at securing our needs*. Insofar as the misogynist’s toxic personality and sense of entitlement is why he can’t pair bond I do feel bad for him and I would hope he would stop being a misogynistic duffer. But he’s a victim of a the social system that distorted his humanity to be toxic, entitled and (likely) dangerous.
His problems are his own. No woman needs to be in any sort of interaction with him. But I still feel bad for him, as I do most MGTOW; society did saddle him with a set or problems he needs to work on. Some feminist (who would be a saint) should^ work with him on his sense of entitlement.
*in terms of being happy
^not obligation, just recommendation. it would be helpful if the person understood feminism 101. I’m not saying a woman.
@ Kreator, #43:
Oh, good catch! Apologies to Mr. Futrelle.
Mike Smith
It is fine to pity those with such a shallow and poor pitiful me attitude, but society did not saddle them with such a vile and entitled attitude towards sex. Misogyny is a choice, as is cursing the women for their failure to fuck the pitiful MGTOWs, though I would agree that it is common.
They don’t need a feminist to explain it to them, they need some therapy to address their abusive tendencies, and possibly some anger management. Maybe then he will notice that women are people with fully functional brains which they use to actively avoid being near dudes who clearly despise them, yet feel completely entitled to demand sexual gratification.
Happy birthday Mary! A dehumidifier is a good practical gift, especially considered all the rain and resulting fungus growth this season, but I hope you get a nice dinner and cake celebration too.
@51 Tethys
No misogyny is not a choice; beliefs are not chosen. Misogyny is a learned, conditioned response. MGTOW are extreme outliers in a set of cultural practices, beliefs and norms that are sexist/misogynistic and generate such outcomes. Male entitlement is the result of males being given privilege by this society. I mean before birth males are treated better. This stuff is largely invisible to the beneficiaries and it takes years of conscious effort to undue it. To a large extent this sort of toxic masculinity IS beaten into boys, sometimes literally, from a very young age. You can’t choose, say, preferential treatment you got in Kindergarten that developed the sense of entitlement.
MGTOW’s great moral failing is not that they display the worst aspects of toxic masculinity all the time. It’s their unwillingness to listen and try to get better. The sort of entitled attitude displayed in the opening post is odious, dangerous and should be called out. But insofar as it is the result of deep seated personality traits that developed from early childhood and educational experiences the MGTOW is also damaged by it, he’s a victim of it and it’s not chosen. I can sympathize with with the guy while condemning the attitude and his reactionary behavior.
That he might need therapy (a huge MIGHT I must add) also makes me feel sorry for him.
As both a doxastic non-voluntarist and a sociology student, I do find the assertion that misogyny is wholly a choice silly.
Your brain makes conclusions based on what information you feed into it. If a person has shitty beliefs, its probably because they started from shitty information.
Given that we exist in a largely misogynistic culture, its unsurprising that people socialized here come to misogynist conclusions.
Analogy wise, it’d be like if you tried to knit gloves for normal humans, after being told over and over your whole life that normal humans have eight fingers. Your gloves would come out wrong, but that’s just a function of the incorrect premise.
That’s not to say that I think misogyny is entirely removed from choice – an individual can choose not to act according to their beliefs and is thus responsible for their actions regardless of their beliefs.
Analogy-wise, this would be like believing that humans have eight fingers but choosing to knit five-fingered gloves anyways.
Normal humans do have eight fingers. Four fingers per hand and two thumbs.
Probably a regional difference, I’ve always heard the thumb considered a finger.
Also, there was an implied per hand
I dunno, I’ve had days where I’ve been entirely convinced that I had ten thumbs.
The poor Chad’s problem is the fact that his libido is much more developed than his ability to have meaningful personal relationships with women. That’s a real problem, and I would sympathize with him, if he wasn’t blaming women for his own shortcomings. Which is a flaw in his character and not to be attributed to a misogynist culture.
What’s next, pitying the KKK member because he will never have any close black friends?
Compassion for the parent who kicked their gay kid out?
Y’all, if your first impulse is sympathy with the privileged then you’re doing “decent human being” wrong.
@60
I do actually have some degree of sympathy for any person that wastes their life being an awful person – you only get one, and they’re spending it in an awful way, with society generally footing a large part of the bill as to why they’re so fucked up.
It’s not my first impulse by any stretch of the imagination, but yes, I am sympathetic to them, while simultaneously thinking that they’re evil, reprehensible people.
Vivec
That’s nice. And maybe you’re a better person than me, or maybe you just have more spoons than me, but frankly I don’t care.
Every. Single. Time. there is a post about some misogynist fuckhead writing dehumanising rapey diatribes the dudes come out in force telling us how we need to have compassion and be fucking nice to them because didn’t you know, not getting your dick wet is the worst.
There’s some truth to this, but it’s not the whole truth. It’s not like the Declaration of Sentiments is still news. Yes, society teaches them that a hot woman is the reward they’re entitled to for being dudes, but it also teaches that women are independent beings, at least it pays lip service to this.
P.S. There is no karmic retribution. People being horrible abusive assholes means in no way that they are “wasting their lives”. Or do you pity Donald Trump as well?
For the record, I’m not saying that you have to feel the same way I do, just stating how I feel on the matter.
Whether or not you want to have compassion for them or be nice to them is your own prerogative (and, in the latter case, not even one I believe in. I’m cool with treating misogynists harshly.)
It’s possible to be successful and not be a racist, misogynist fuckwhistle, and I think it is generally bad for society and one’s own emotional and mental state to act in a way that negatively affects others.
So yeah, I do kinda pity him, to a very small degree. Compared to a hypothetical not-shitty-but-just-as-rich Trump, this one’s living a shittier life. Sure, he’s plenty well off, and I’m sure he’s even happy most of the time, but I think that being an awful person rather limits your potential.
Note that I also think he’s an awful person that is absolutely contemptable. You can pity someone and still think they’re awful.
Vivec
How do you think it feels for the victims of a certain type of oppression when every discussion gets derailed into how much sympathy have with the fucking oppressor? Do you think that’s appropriate? Do you think that makes a space welcoming for the marginalised?
Well, I mean, I am one of said victims, so I can say for certain how I think it feels? It personally doesn’t bother me, and I think it’s an important topic to discuss, but I’ll gladly drop the subject if that’s desired.
It’s nice it doesn’t bother you, but I could actually do without all this “what about the menz”.
Yes, it’s important, but there are places when it’S appropriate. I find it really important what folks like Kimmel do who study masculinity, or when dudes help other dudes to undo their toxic socialisation, but not every single time we’re talking about some asshole who reduces women to pieces of meat.
It’s like watching somebody run over a child and then first asking if the airbag hurt and how aweful it must be for them to live with this while the child still lies bleeding in the gutter.
Sure, but who gets to be the arbiter of what’s allowable, then? Like I said, I’d rather drop it than make people uncomfortable, but if every thread on here tangentially related to the topic is off-limits for that kind of discussion, there’s not really a place for it. I kind of resent not being allowed to give my take on a matter that absolutely does affect me, but if that’s how it is, I guess that’s fine by me.
Also, I was specifically referring to the statement that “misogyny is a choice”, which I think is absurd both given the huge wealth of study into how socialization is a huge part of that.
Vivec, I think I agree with your point but why should that topic be brought up to/around the victims? It’s a valid conversation but it’s for another space.
Many armed burglars can also be pitied if you look at their lives and how they ended up to feel the need they have to rob. But you wouldn’t say that to the person who was held up at gunpoint during a home invasion.
Right, but this is just a comments section on a blog, any of which could potentially be viewed by a victim of said treatment. Does that mean that the topic can never be mentioned on any of the comments sections, at the risk of a victim seeing it?
Analogy wise, it seems more like not being able to talk about the sympathy and outside causes of burglary in public, at the risk of a victim of an armed burglary being nearby.
Regardless, either way, consider the topic dropped. I said my piece and I don’t want to derail further.
This needs the Spartacus treatment.
I’m Chad Thundercock.
I’m Chad Thundercock.
I’m Chad Thundercock.
I’m Chad Thundercock.
I’m Chad Thundercock.
I’m Chad Thundercock.
….and so are you!
Gilliel
yes, so much this. Thanks for doing all the labor of schooling those who insist on reinforcing the male privilege of being emotionally helpless victims of their hormones and society. I read the comments with their defense of misogyny as a force that is somehow out of their personal control last night, and simply wasn’t up to explaining yet again that what about the menz is male privilege in action.
vivec
Your behavior is always your choice. If you have grown up under a rock, and somehow only learned toxic habits in interpersonal relationships, it is your own fucking responsibility to unlearn them. It is ridiculous to claim that it is somehow feminists (or anyones) responsibility to teach the rank assholes who are loudly wallowing in their emotional stuntedness to not be abusive assholes. I suggest you click on the social justice Llink roundup above PZ’s photo. I tried to provide it but it won’t stick f some reason. The first entry is all about privilege.
One more link reference specifically for Mike Smith, the poor menz advocate who started yet another thread down Aw, but the poor pitiful maladroits can’t help being rapey misogynistic creeps, we should feel sorry for them lane. No, I want every single one of them on the far side of the rift thanks, until they learn to have better manners than my dog.
Educate yourself.
That was Mike, not me.
I explicitly said that there’s no obligation or expectation for someone to teach them (or even be nice to them.)
All I said was that I, personally, can sympathize in a small degree.
If you meant misogyny as in purely physical acts, then yes, I agree that it is purely a choice. I tend to assume that misogyny also includes sexist beliefs, which I don’t believe you can control (ie doxastic non-voluntarism)
I also don’t think the privilege 101 quote accurately describes my case, if you’re assuming I’m a dude trying to mansplain misogyny. I’m not a dude. I thought I made that clear earlier, but my bad.
vivec
No, you prefer to not identify as any gender and prefer they as a pronoun , correct? I specifically quoted the article that uses dogs and lizards to illustrate some of the finer nuances of privilege, so I don’t know where you are getting the idea I’ve accused you of mansplaining.
I generally feel a deep repugnance at grown men who are actively wallowing in the bro pit of misogyny. Why would I waste my pity on them?
The portion of the article you quoted was about how ““I wouldn’t mind it if someone did that to me.” is not a good rule of thumb for assessing the impact of an action over persons lacking your privilege.”
As far as I know, I am not privileged over the other people victimized by misogyny. Not on that axis of oppression, anyways.
Once again, that was Mike’s point, not mine. Whether you want to pity them or not is your prerogative. I was just describingvmy own feelings on the matter.
vivec:
Bzzzt. Second noun phrase redundant.
Uh, what? Plenty of doxastic non-voluntarists aren’t actively studying sociology.
Vivec
You used a similar version of the phrase back at 65.
Thus the dogs and lizards and how conditions that suit one might be awful for the other and vice versa. I agree with 66 in that no, we really don’t need to discuss the deeper sociological implications of the people with such awful behavior every single time PZ posts an example of cultural sexism.
You and Mike Smith both claimed that somehow these men are not in control of their misogynistic behavior because they can’t help having illogical sexist beliefs. *women hate sex, etc.. That premise is clearly false, and serves only as a pretext to indulge in an all male, hate on women, pissing contest. Claiming that men somehow can’t help going to reddit and participating in those threads is ridiculous. That reddit not only permits such blatant displays of misogyny, but benefits from it is where the cultural factors come into play.
Right, but I’m not using that to deny the existence of misogny or privilege, I’m specifically stating that I, as a victim of misogyny, think that it is an important issue to bring up.
No, I actually exactly said the opposite of that. Like, explicitly.
You keep foisting Mike’s position on me, no matter how explicitly I say things. No, I don’t think women have any obligation to be nice to or pity misogynists, nor do I think that misogynists can’t control their actions. Want to accuse me of holding any other positions I explicitly spoke out against?
To be succinct – I think that people do not choose their beliefs consciously. That’s a well-founded philosophical position that is lent evidence by fields like sociology and psychology. Thus, even though I find misogynists that act on their beliefs deplorable, I personally pity them because said actions are at least somewhat based on factors out of their control.
@77 <whooooosh>
Feel free to elaborate, then?