You can watch it, sort of, right here:
There’s a lot of stutter and lag in that feed, but you can get the gist. You can also follow #ReasonRally on Twitter. From the shots of the crowd, it looks to be comparable in size to the 2012 Reason Rally — so it’s good, but isn’t showing a lot of growth. It’s also not raining! I hear it’s hot and muggy, though.
I have very mixed feelings about it. I want this event to succeed, but I’ve lost a lot of enthusiasm for the movement in general — there are just too many asshats within atheism, and rather than disavowing them, the movement seems determined to try and take a middle road, appeasing the people who treat women as subhuman, being reluctant to embrace social justice as the significant contribution atheism can make to society, and regarding minorities as people who should be absorbed into current atheist goals, rather than transforming them. But I’m hoping it will grow and evolve.
Meanwhile, those same asshats are praying for the Reason Rally to fail. You want to see a raging failure to evaluate evidence? Look here.
FYI, this picture isnt a 'photoshopped' thats the liveview! https://t.co/BlS0SW7Db9 pic.twitter.com/srzlyQizTA
— thunderf00t (@thunderf00t) June 4, 2016
That’s so dishonest it hurts to see it. No one expected 400,000 people to show up for this event; estimates were in the range of 10K+. So right away it’s an invalid comparison. And then, that’s not a photo of the Reason Rally in progress on the right. If you look at the youtube videos, there actually are quite a few people there, and that photo makes it look as if no one is there at all.
So has Thunderf00t entirely dedicated himself to being a regressive shithead at this point? I mean, I know he IS a regressive shithead, but before the big blowup with FTB he used to at least say useful things about science and religion. Now, literally, the only times I see anything from him it’s all anti-SJ stuff. Granted, I stopped following his stuff since he showed his true colors, so maybe I only see him when is is being really awful…so maybe my sample is skewed.
I avoid him, too, but yeah, he seems to be a full-time shithead. If you go to youtube for the reasonrally feed, he’s there in the chat, trollin’ trollin’ trollin’. He hates the Reason Rally, he thinks SJWs destroyed atheism, but there he is, pissing away.
I like the idea that it’s wanting to be fair-minded and treat people decently that’s stopping the atheist movement from growing, rather than the irrational and indefinitely continuing rage against that desire in others.
Btw, I’m curious – what’s the context of that first picture? What are those ~400,000 people rallying for? Is it some kind of pro-bigotry rally? I ask, because we know that, obviously, social justice causes are responsible for diminishing movements rather than growing them.
“Do you want to join our club?”
“I don’t know, what do you do?”
“Well, we hang out, tell each other how smart we are, criticise religion for being homophobic and misogynistic, and then engage in transphobic and misogynistic abuse against our own members. So, interested?”
“Errr… no.”
“Gosh darn social justice, keepin’ us good folks down!”
*sad trombone, credits roll*
Forgive my blissful ignorance but 400,000 people rallying for what? The wiki article on the 2012 reason rally gives attendance figures ranging from 8,000 to 30,000. So what are we looking at. Concert by Famous Person? Political rally? Religious (ooh, please, for irony’s sake), charitable or scientific event? A Klan-meeting would also seem weirdly appropriate but I don’t see any white bedsheets and don’t think they have that kind of membership these days.
Oh, gosh, perhaps TF did not fact-check his meme? What is the world coming to?
Re: Matrim (#1):
There is nothing recent at all about TF’s behaviour. He has been very consistent for a very long time. I myself am embarrassed to admit I used to like TF’s channel.* But even if he didn’t start out as a total smeghead**, he went there very quickly and very early on in his youtube career. The FTB-incident just served to highlight this to those of us – myself included – who had managed to overlook these problems. But they were there before.
Since you mention it, I don’t actually recall him doing many science videos (not counting his responses to religious claims). There were a few things about Group1/2 metals, some skywatching timelapses and that’s all I remember. However, I lost interestest around the time when he began obsessing with the islamic convert, so maybe I missed all the science stuff.
*It seems I’m not the only one around here but still… damn!
**Which, in hindsight, I suspect he did.
That first photo is from the Obama inauguration.
Would you believe that TF00t has made a whole new video based on that photograph?
@4 Athywren
well I was thinking along the same lines.
It seems that for some is just an in-group they can belong to not unlike disaffected and neglected kids joining a gang.
It is pretty clear that reason or rational inquiry has very little to do with it.
uncle frogy
Athywren – not the moon you’re looking for (#4):
Your recruiter missed a key selling point: atheists get Sundays off. More time for being misogynistic and transphobic*. That’s why we shed religion in the first place, isn’t it?
*Proper Atheists (TM) also have to fit in xenophobia, fear- and warmongering. Together with the smugness that’s a very busy schedule.
Re: PZ Myers (#6):
Yes. Yes I would. In a heartbeat. It’s probably half an hour long.
Is it too cynical to wonder how much money he’ll make on patreon with his latest fabricated outrage?
I just came from the Reason rally. There were a fair number of people. There were a few women speakers but not enough. The weather wasn’t too bad considering its DC in June
komarov @9:
$3,331, as of today. Hate’s a very profitable business, I see.
Heh.
Breaking news: Presidential inauguration more of a draw than atheist event – more at 8!
Fun fact: the 2011 PAX Prime event (Pretty Big Gaming Thing) had attendance numbers of more than 70,000 people. Probably not all together at the same time – it’s a multi-day event – but there, anyway. Pretty sure that would also look fairly insignificant next to the inauguration picture. Thanks, Gaben!
So……… yeah.
I used to take that man seriously. *shudder*
@unclefrogy, 7
I guess it doesn’t help that atheism is well enough known to be the spooky-scary boogie man in a fair number of religious communities, but not well enough known that many people know more than “they’re darksided! DARKSIDED!!”
Yeah, I guess all those people at the MLK “I have a dream” rally were there for free hotdogs. /s.
Worshipping god-replacement powerful male figures is clearly a good thing, according to teh f00l. Even better when they’re white.
Ah Mr Myers you’re gradually getting near my perspective- that a person’s religious beliefs (or otherwise) are the least interesting thing about them. It’s what they make of whatever they believe that matters. in general, people take out of their philosophy what they bring in. Shit person, shit Muslim, Catholic, Hindu, Mormon, atheist. And vice versa.
(I’m a Catholic atheist, if that matters, and it’s up to others to decide whether I’m vice or versa).
So did the Reason Rally actually embrace a social justice platform or is all this whining by these shitheads just over the anti-harrassment policy?
Eh, at least the Internet’s getting wise to his bullshit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgBkpb7xlU
The kids are laughing about you, Thunderfail!
Sweaty Phil is arguing dishonestly? I’m shocked, I say! Shocked!
From the “scientific” photo analysis set up by Tf00t, we can clearly conclude that atheist reason rallies make the trees bloom with leaves and make the grass green. It’s not photoshopped, so you can see it for yourself. I just got back to my hotel from the rally, and I can assure you that most people who could were sitting under the shade of the leafy trees, unless they had a good seat up front.
I notice that Obama totally failed to make the trees blossom in January. Thanks, Obama!
@ dimhue, #16:
I was only there for a couple hours (because it’s so warm and muggy, ugh), but I thought they did a reasonably good job of covering social justice issues. The speakers were 50% women while I was there. Several speakers, and not just the women, mentioned the importance of reproductive rights, at least one talked about not letting religious excuses trump civil rights (which I took as a reference to same-sex marriage), and one talked about fighting for groups that have been historically disadvantaged. Bill Nye talked about global climate change and brought in some global inequality issues.
It was still pretty white (at least the six or so speakers I saw), but all in all I thought they made a decent effort to cover social justice issues. Also, there were many reminders to vote and lots of disgust at Trump and his bigotry.
Re: applehead (#17):
Indeed.* I just had a look at TF’s patreon page (linked by Hj Hornbeck, #11) and some supporters left complaints that he reuses too much of his footage and should come up with something new instead of going on and on about Anita Sarkeesian. And this in response to a video which (based on the description) is about how much money she has raised, what a terrible waste it is and how irrelevant her channel is compared to, oh, let’s say his, “for reference”.
At least for once TF presents evidence: apparently he gets a lot more views than Sarkeesian does. Even if it doesn’t pay better, hate does seem to attract a lot more attention than thoughtful and substantiated critiques.
*
Well, we can hope.Nope!@5 komarov
I might just be more oblivious than most, because I had no idea he was such a ring-piece until the FTB blowup. The only thing of his I remember seeing that was troubling was some sort of “sleeping dragon” video that was directed at “Islamic terrorism.” The rabid anti-SJ stuff really blindsided me.
Out of curiosity, I just looked, and 18 of the 30 videos on the first page of his YT channel are complaining about about feminism (mostly targeted at Anita Sarkeesian) or SJ. So, yeah, basically a full-time shithead. In fairness, there’s probably more money in being a gigantic asshole than being a decent human being. *looks at Patreon, $3,331per Per video* Yep, it pays better. Also, going off an article from 2015, his anti-feminist videos were generating over twice the views of his atheism videos…coincidentally, I’m sure, he almost stopped producing videos actually about atheism after April 2014.
#20: But Sam Harris says Donald Trump is probably an atheist! How can they diss him when he should have been up there on the stage?
So, if the left photo wasn’t from a prior Reason Rally, do we have any reason to think that the right photo is from this year’s Reason Rally.
@24, yes, the layout of the white tents matches what we had there today. But I can’t tell what time the photo was taken, and the first event was at 10:00 a.m.
But the viewpoint was silly, as all the action was right by the Lincoln Memorial, which itself is a very small splotch in the photos. So even if it were the right season and time and event comparison, it’s not set up for good analysis.
Both 4,000 and 40,000 are much smaller than 400,000, so it’s sort of like measuring how much gas is in an almost empty tank by glancing from a distance. But everyone there appreciated that it was a historic setting, in front of old Honest Abe the atheist Republican, their most recent great President.
jacksprocket @15:
You’re an oxymoron.
@komarov: I used to like TF’s videos a lot.
He does have charisma and a great voice.
I don’t even feel ashamed about it.
I lost interest when his videos became anti-muslim ramblings and moved on.
@jacksprocket: While I make no assumptions on PZ’s thoughts, I have started to think more and more the same.
Atheism is largely useless as agent of social change.
Religion, or lack thereof, is used only as justification a posteriori.
Even people who nominally believe that most of humanity rightly deserve to be tortured for eternity are often times good people.
We are just that good at compartimentalisation.
@John Morales #26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism#Roman_Catholic
F.O. you’re not actually disputing my claim, semantic shift notwithstanding.
(No actual religious Catholic would consider an atheist to be Catholic)
Hey, if it in aid of denigrating those you dislike, lies are fine!
– Thunderfoot
Hey, if it is
Just got back home from the Reason Rally, missed the last 2 hours because the kids were getting restless. I found John de Lancie’s and Bill Nye’s talks to be passionate and inspiring. Many of the other speakers and performers were interesting and/or enjoyable as well. Well worth going for me. Seemed like a good time was had by all.
I quit paying attention to do some other things for a couple of years and everything goes to shit? What is all this about? Not only have I been out of the loop, but the loop appears to have been shattered. Can someone give me the Reader’s Digest version?
Chembob: The “Reader’s Digest” version is that some atheists think it would be good to bring socially-marginalized folks (women, black, gays, and lots of others) into the general atheist movement, and some other atheists think it’s totes okay for the atheist movement to remain largely/entirely All Rich White Cis-Males, All The Time.
Re: cubist (#34):
No, shush, you’re not supposed to say it like that! You’re supposed to say that atheism is about fighting the terrible, terrible influence of religion in our culture and that there is nothing in the dictionary about ‘social justice’, which has nothing at all to do with atheism. And then you go on to make sure atheism remains the domain of rich white cis-males. But discreetly (or not).
I counted around a dozen female speakers compared to around 20 males, so the ratio wasn’t that bad. Would have liked to have seen a few more non-whites, though.
I have a feeling this event is staged more for video feeds and You Tube than for actual in-person attendance. That said, for me it was a good day and I thought the majority of the speeches were good to excellent. They held nicely to time limits. Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard was quite impressive, as were Cara Santa Maria and Yvette d’Entremont. Lawrence Krause was perhaps the highlight of the day.
A surprise was John Davidson. I saw the name on the schedule and thought, “that can’t be the singer and game show host I remember from my teenage years – must be somebody else named John Davidson.” But it was him! He is 75 and has finally come out as an atheist – his talk was funny and very entertaining.
He thinks the Reason Rally would have had around 400K attendants, if only it weren’t for the evil SJWs? Delusional twerp. Or, if not, then he is a disingenuous twerp. I have to admit that I’ve moved on from (most of) YouTube atheism overall, anyway, so I rarely encounter anything he says or does, anymore, but the fact that he’s still active and apparently so closely tied his online existence to this is both disturbing and sad. The former especially because of the many followers he still has, the latter because I remember a time when I actually liked his content, but – looking back – I realize he demonstrated many of the qualities I dislike now even then, even when he argued against a “common enemy” such as the YECs.
@21, Komarov:
Eh, like many things resistance begins as a seed that grows over time into a full flower. Lampooning the absurdities of the regressives is always a good first step. If people start laughing about them, they aren’t taken seriously and it will slow down their growth, if not reverse it some day.
We do have hope to look forward to positive change, however slowly. Given how many highly educated college students take up social justice activism we may see the beginning of another generational shift. The new version of New Deal Democrats.
Sure, unfortunately Thunderfootinmouth, Zardoz of Acorn and all the other wannabe Internet MRAtheist superstars won’t disappear overnight, but their house of cards is already showing signs of collapse. How many of his Patreon bucks will be left at the end of the day? MRAtheists haven’t shown themselves to be financial geniuses. Remember the quote-unquote “documentary” The Sarkeesian Effect and how it died an ignominious death?
I thought the SJWs were an irrelevant, spent force? (Remember that one idiot who posted on some other then-FTB blog — I think Jason Thibault’s — a masturbatory fantasy about his “enemies” being dragged in chains before him en route to their surrender to Lt. Col. Thunderfoot and General Dawkins?)
But now it seems that the SJWs have achieved victory, or at least mutually assured destruction? I have so much trouble keeping track of the shitlord talking points. It’s almost like they don’t care about making sense at all.
Absolutely no threat at all. But on the verge of total victory. And responsible for any bad thing* you can think of. Now what does that remind me of….
*Like so viciously evil an event as a game having a female protagonist! :o
Re: applehead (#38)
Actually, I seem to recall the Sarkeesian Effect to be a prohibitively expensive project, all paid for by donations which were rewarded with movies that were less watchable than any 24-hour looped sound video on Youtube you care to name.* All that money supposedly went into the production, but who is to say the ‘directors’ didn’t pay themselves handsome salaries? Flop, scam or perhaps both? Setting aside any ethical standards for a moment, pick-pocketing five- or six-figure sums from the permanently embittered might be considered a form of ‘financial genius’. At the very least it looks like our two budding moviemakers lived off of this project while it lasted.
*A mind-boggling phenomenon in itself.
@41
Max Bialystock: “That’s our Hitler!”
I don’t think that’s right. Us women folks are totally welcome if we look pretty, make sandwiches, generally flutter male egos and don’t complain about sexual assault. Other marginalised groups are welcome to serve as evidence the atheist movement is totally not like the others as long as they keep their mouths shut and don’t get ideas above their station.
Gay people are ruining marriage.
Trans people are ruining children.
Atheists are ruining America.
SJWs are ruining atheism.
I don’t think atheist bros are aware of just how much they are like the religious people they say they want no association with.
And as an introverted loner, I’m totally fine with that picture. Looking forward to attending many such rallies.
@Saad, 44
They make the same claim about us, though, to be fair. Of course, I’m not too worried about that, because their evidence for the claim that we‘re religious is that we believe in a magical conspiracy designed to keep men down; and that we believe in wage gaps that are shown to exist even in the studies that they throw around as evidence that there are none; and we believe that it’s more likely that inequalities in employment are down to prejudice, rather than that there are basically no non-white, non-cis, non-male who’re qualified for anything. But still, I’m just saying, they say it about us too. They tend to be wrong when they say it, and demonstrate an amusing level of ignorance of the ideologies they have chosen to oppose, considering that they consider themselves skeptics, but they still say it.
Erm… “designed to keep men down” = ” designed to keep women down”
I feel like I slightly undercut my snark by accurately describing our positions after that first one… should probably proof-read before commenting.