DJ Grothe is out, and the Los Angeles office is closed.
In order to achieve cost-savings and greater efficiency, the Los Angeles office of the JREF has closed effective September 1, 2014. All operations have been moved to Falls Church, Virginia.
DJ Grothe is no longer with the JREF. James Randi has taken over as acting President.
This restructuring is part of an enhanced educational agenda aimed at inspiring an investigative spirit in a new generation of critical thinkers by engaging children and their parents, as well as educators and the general public, in how to think about the many extraordinary claims we hear every day.
More: they’re cutting the JREF forums loose.
The time for change has come. The long-running JREF online Forum at forums.randi.org is soon to head off on its own.
JREF staff is in the midst of arranging a transition to a new owner. Various people are currently working to preserve the integrity of the forum content to the greatest extent possible with the privacy concerns of users in mind.
Well, that was abrupt. There is no hint about what the board is thinking, or what direction they’re planning to take, other than that vague “enhanced educational agenda”.
I’d make a joke about them only engaging in this drama for the traffic and attention, but this is a rather serious change in direction for them. I hope we’ll be seeing a new and better JREF. One positive hint is that Adam Savage joined the board this past summer, and that may be part of the change in focus.
Here’s one obvious reason:
JREF Revenue: 2011: $1.56M, 2012: $1.29M, 2013: $887.5K.
— Jim Lippard (@lippard) September 1, 2014
JREF Revenue: 2011: $1.56M, 2012: $1.29M, 2013: $887.5K.
They’re down to 60% of their 2011 revenue. That’s a good reason to change directions.
May I be the first to say: Holy Fuck!?
Look, I know it’s too soon to tell, but I’m choosing to be optimistic about this.
Damn, that’s a sharp drop in revenue.
About time.
Reactions to the shakeup can be found here:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=ac1801a3106b7f59fa35860d0de3a4e4&t=282363
I’d like to think that they’re sacking Grothe because his clueless sexism has damaged JREF’s reputation leading torevenue and jettisoning the Forums because it’s become one big MRA, libertarian, Bigfoot-skeptic circle-jerk. However, I’ve grown used to dissapointment in my middle age.
I guess we’ll get a feel for where the organization is going once a new permanent president is named.
Edit: …leading to revenue loss…
” I hope we’ll be seeing a new and better JREF”
I suppose by definition that would be a good thing. But does the JREF still serve much of a purpose? I admit I’m prejudiced by my distaste for Grothe and some of the “stars” of TAM, but it seems to me that in recent years, the main function of the JREF has been to run TAM, and the main function of TAM is to raise money for the JREF.
I’m not sure the JREF has a lot going for it any more. Traditionally it’s had (1) Randi; (2) the Million Dollar Challenge; (3) TAM; and (4) a large and active web forum. But Randi is mostly retired and not that big a name these days, I can’t remember the last time I saw the Challenge mentioned by anyone outside of the “skeptical community,” and they’ve never seemed to have any idea what to do with their forum and are now getting rid of it. That just leaves TAM. Which I would think could easily be handed off to another organization like CFI.
There are also people like Savage and Novella who are supporters. That’s encouraging.
I have no sympathy for Grothe at all. I’m glad the shake up has finally happened, but I’ll reserve judgment on how good the change will be.
It’s almost like treating 50% of your possible donors like shit isn’t a good business model, aside for the Republican party that is.
Reading Dalehusband’s link some are already blaming the “social justice warriors”. I really don’t know how anyone could look at DJ’s leadship as anything other than appalling. Even if you agree with his stance, aka bitches be lying, his skeptical toolkit was obviously lacking a screwdriver, measuring tape, and a level. But if people still view Shermer as a top member of the skeptic community, I guess anyone will pass as long as they talk about how super skeptical they are all the time.
Indeed. Good riddance sums it up. The JREF seems to have outlived it’s usefulness.
And hopefully my enjoyment of SGU podcasts won’t be interrupted by the Rebecca-less TAM episodes.
dalehusband @ 4
Yeah, it seems the dudebros are already whining about those “problematic/poisonous” social justice warriors, FTB, and Skepchicks.
Awwwwww… Poor little cupcakes.
I think that particular comment may not have been from a ‘dudebro’ so much as a certain woman with an ax to grind, based off of the user name of Ztarr, which also happens to be the title of a certain Manga book.
Yazikus:
Ah, whatsherface. Given the scramble to move the JREF elsewhere, I have a feeling it’s going to come to resemble a certain other forum.
What I always find funny about people who blame SJW/Skepchick/FTB for stuff like this is that it never seems to damage their opinion of the people who supposedly caved to all this unwarranted pressure. You know, the refrain is never “Damn you James Randi for allowing yourself to be hoodwinked by those nefarious social justice warriors!” Just like when people claim that a woman has slept her way to the top. It never damages their opinion of the dude who supposedly gave this woman a promotion in exchange for sex.
Yazikus @ 13
Forgive my assumption.
Akira,
No worries, it was a perfectly reasonable assumption, really. I unfortunately know more than I would like about certain topics!
Well, if Randi wants to revitalize JREF and TAM, then he can get some people to post a new set of policies for people at future TAMs, as soon as they can. That will help signal the future of the jREF (if any) in every sense.
Is it too soon to say that JREF has excised a malignant Grothe?
Nathaniel Frein @19
Not at all.
To be fair on the JREF revenue, 2011 seems to have been an exceptional year. From Guidestar.org (in the 2011 Form 990 filing, page 14 of the PDF – link requires a registration):
JREF Contributions: 2007 = $281,047 2008 = $290,791 2009 = $304,063 2010 = $368,445 2011 = $675,669
JREF Total Support ("Revenue"): 2007 = $773,513 2008 = $1,334,025 2009 = $775,715 2010 = $944,085 2011 = $1,510,585
Whatever the reason, I’m pleased to see the end of the DJ era. I liked and supported the man on his way in to the JREF presidency, and have been greatly disappointed by his behavior. Maybe someday we can all go back to TAM.
Yazikus @ 17
I haven’t been on or posted to the JREF forums in several years, so I only recognize a couple of names (i.e. Cleon, The Cenrtal Scutinizer), everyone else is new to me. Ergo, I have no idea who Ztarr really is… And I’m beginning to think I don’t want to know.
I will be waiting to hear more about the changes they are implementing from now on before I start paying attention to JREF again. I really cannot remember the last time I even looked at their website.
You would think the libertarian faction over at the JREF forums would be pretty cool with this. Obviously people have been voting with their dollars. They might not agree with it, but how can they complain about it being horrible? It is how things are supposed to work. It is almost as though they are only okay with people doing this when they agree with those people.
Well, I certainly hope you’re right, PZ, and that this is a turning point, but I went back and looked, and the JREF board — and Randi himself — were reported to have been aware of everything Grothe was doing, for a very long time indeed, and refused to take any action. So I’m not sure optimism is warranted; maybe my inner cynic is just getting too big for its britches, but I doubt they “get it”. More likely, they are starting to notice that donations are down and complaints are coming in about Grothe, and they’re axing him without understanding why he deserves to be axed, purely as a mechanical reaction. That being the case, his replacement is likely to be just as bad, or possibly flawed in a new direction altogether. (And if so, or if the drop in donations is due to other reasons, then it will be taken as justification for having kept Grothe on for so long — after all, if donations don’t rise again, then he must not have been the cause of the drop.)
(It reminds me of an old Dilbert cartoon; the PHB announces “we’re going to outsource all the tasks we’re not good at”. Everyone starts smiling and partying, and Wally asks the PHB “so when’s your last day” — meanwhile Alice suddenly has a terrified expression, and says “Wait — they’re not good at knowing what they’re not good at!”)
Thread over. This wins!
Actually, it isn’t all that abrupt. I still read the forum from time to time, and they’ve been talking about its future since Sharon Hill wrote about it at the end of July. Apparently, they’ve been having some serious hardware and software issues this year. I’ve been seeing complaints about server slowness for months now.
My guess is that the forum is something that they don’t feel the JREF should invest a lot of money into maintaining, or even transferring to new equipment. Better to spin it off.
For those interested, Hill’s announcement is here: http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=10144684&postcount=1
Wow, it turns out harassing and being openly abusive to your allies isn’t a good business strategy. Who would of thunk it? Hopefully, whoever becomes the new boss will make reparing all the bridges Grothe burnt a top priority. Maybe they could bring Phil Plait back.
Travis @ 23
Libertarians only believe in “voting with their dollars” when the vote goes their way. Otherwise, it is evil “coercion” and “aggression.”
You left out fascism….
JREF Revenue: 2011: $1.56M, 2012: $1.29M, 2013: $887.5K.
The invisible hand of the market appears, briefly …
@Akira #28 & @Nerd #29
I believe the correct term is “economic terrorism”.
@19: Nathaniel Frein:
Please come up to the dais to receive tonight’s shiny internet.
Well done!
I also noticed a post by Sharon Hill on her personal blog: “Your help needed: What do you want and need from a ‘skeptic community’?” It was posted in June and received numerous comments (and are they ever a mixed bag).
So, maybe this new focus on education has been in the works for some time?
Scr… Archivist @26:
They’ve been talking about the future of the forum since about 15 years ago. The leadership of the JREF never really seemed to like it — way back when, Hal Bidlack wanted to get rid of it. Then there was the time Randi got reports from a couple of schoolteachers that their kids were doing research on the internet but couldn’t access the JREF site because the forum used naughty words.
It’s funny, I would have thought that DJ Grothe would have shown them his secret formula for turning drama into clicks into $$$$$.
screechmonkey @ 34
I thought that was Brian Dunning’s job. ;)
Is Jim Lippard related to Def? Because, you know, money goes to funny places when wimminz in the house…
Sharon Hill is still in it.
And she’s skeptical about what goes on in there.
This puts the aspersions sometimes cast upon the Pharyngula commentariat by older skeptics in some context. “Tone as a virtue.”
knowknot, in what sense?
@39: Well, not tone necessarily, but it does point out the need to have a school-safe place. I’m not a pearl-clutcher over “bad words” myself, but I think schools are pretty much required to be.
I’m a fan of “I Fucking Love Science”, and they created a mirror site that’s school-safe after similar complaints.
@ 41 of course right here on Pharyngula we have Lounge vs. Thunderdome. I think there’s a need for both types of spaces. There are times when dialogue is encouraged by setting ground rules and there are times when people need to be as angry or as scathing as can be imagined in order to communicate effectively.
Remembering my own ability to distinguish both types of speech in first or second grade, I’m supportive of letting kids see both styles and place emphasis on learning when certain words and styles are appropriate and when they are not. After all, the modern kid is probably voluntarily investigating parts of the internet where you or I would fear to tread. Again referring back to my own experiences in childhood, I’m much more concerned with making sure kids have ethical and moral reasoning skills to decide which content is good and what is bad than I am with keeping them away from any particular content.
A coincidence that this happens right after I have a dream about holding an alternate TAM in my basement?
Yeah, of course it’s a coincidence. You think I’m some sorta woo peddler? ;)
@40 pneumo
– I shouldn’t have said it, as far as I know she’s great.
– There were bits and pieces of some comments about skepticism about reported rape, relating to reliability of memory, related it to Elizabeth Loftus’ work. I wrote that on the spur of the moment… I have trouble working through the sense I’d gotten of what she’d said based on my what I’ve understood from women over the years, but my sense is that she’s honestly trying to be consistent, regardless of how hard it is.
– Somebody has to do that in the difficult places, because there are always, always difficult places, and they’re hard to see from within their times.. (Plus, my past irritations re JREF popped out unfairly, by baseless association.)
– In brief, it was stupid and uncalled for, I shouldn’t have said it, and I’m only answering this fully because someone here is likely to get it. Otherwise I would have let the remembrance of idiocy live quietly in my head without bringing it up.
– I was wrong, and it’s good you asked. If I’d followed her model I would have shut up until there was actually something to say.
Sorry, I understood nothing of that post, Knowknot. Then I realized you thought I was originally replying to your post about “wimminz in the house”. I did not.
I was saying that Sharon Hill is still in the JREF. I was not responding to your particular inanity.
yazikus @ 13: Yes I agree with your guess about the identity of Ztarr. I think no has even mentioned her in an entire year.
@45 pneumo
– Yes, I can see that you weren’t. I was in my own private little world, so first I was wrong, and then it went my explanation / apology went sprawling,.
– So, again. Sorry for the static.
46, David Utidjian
Well, I guess there are limits to how long we can talk about a one horse pony.
Unlike said pony at TAM (the biggest and bestest show in town).
It would be nice to see the board lure Phil Plait back and to see some harassment-free TAMs.
Disclaimer: I went to TAM, saw Phil Plait, met Randi, and was not harassed by anyone.
I like Phil, but I think he’s good at what he does and he should keep doing it. The person who is president of the JREF should be, first of all, really really good at management and budgets and fundraising, not a sciencey nerd.
This is also true of the RDF.
There are real skills involved in managing a charitable or educational institution, and they aren’t necessarily the same as the skills involved in being an educator.
Actually, what we need to do is clone Eugenie Scott, who as far as I’m concerned was the perfect blend of administrator, politician, and scientist. More like her, please.
PZ @51 and 52, good points.
One thing I think the JREF has done right in recent years is the idea of having a network of people, whether you call them Research Fellows or whatever, with expertise in various subjects. The President doesn’t need to be the Debunker-in-Chief, because you really don’t need a Debunker-in-Chief. Or a Science-Communicator-in-Chief or whatever.
Is Jim Lippard associated with JREF, or did he just provide that one tweet?
I remember him from back in the days of IIDB and that forum that also went the way of the dodo.
Crimson@54,
Not sure if he has any present affiliation. I think he was simply reading the numbers off the Form 990s that anybody can access.
Well, JREF lost my paltry contributions thanks to DJ Grothe’s support of harassment. Sure DJ said he’s all against harassment and that he was acting on it, but what he put in place was just not effective (as we had all since seen) and he had ignored a lot of good simple advice which would have led to a more effective (but not more expensive) scheme to deal with what many women were saying was a genuine problem.
We’ll see where the JREF goes from here; it would be unfortunate if it relies so heavily on Randi managing everything. In other news I wonder if the CFI will manage to sort out its issues or if they will remain NFI.
Like PZ, I don’t think that Phil Plait would take the job again. His reasons for dropping the job was that he had too many other things going on at the time. But I would like him to become involved with JREF again and attend TAM again.
With the office moved to Falls Church (and strangely not back to Ft. Lauderdale) I think it could be likely that they will look for someone from that area to br president. That speculation would seem to rule out a likely candidate like Jamy Ian Swiss.
It will be interesting to see what TAM 2015 will be like. At present I intend to go. Oddly enough last night, I had I had a dream about TAM 2015 (MAN I’M WEIRD!) and it was a disaster from my point of view. But DJ was still associated with TAM. So maybe my nightmare has been adverted.
George
Hello! I think Adam Savage quit the board some time ago. I don’t know what the reasons were, but worth noting.
Oh, man, not Swiss. Get somebody with some brains.
Yeah, I got the word: Savage was on the board briefly a while back, and then left. That’s a bit odd, too.
More info about Savage leaving anywhere? Or some sort of confirmation, even?
An excellent decision, dropping the unctuous Grothe. It’s difficult to imagine that he wasn’t responsible for tarnishing JREF’s reputation. Pause should have been taken in the first place by hiring someone who cut his teeth in Kurtz’s sometimes ethically questionable operation. It may be the case, as The Vicar in #25 above notes, that JREF might not learn needed lessons. We shall see.
I have read in several places that it was announced at TAM 2014 that Adam Savage had been added to the JREF board.
That the JREF is failing doesn’t surprise me. I liked Randi for a time, but grew out of it. He shows his bias when he calls himself a “debunker”. A skeptic should be open minded, even when questioning things. I think Randi left that ideal behind long ago
Sandi, my recollection is that Randi always objects to the term “debunker,” for exactly the reasons you suggest.
Which I think is a little silly — you can be open to new evidence and yet still have formed some pretty solid provisional conclusions. Does Randi really have to pretend to have no idea whether or not the 10,000th dowser he tests will succeed where the previous 9,999 have failed? The very idea of having a Million Dollar Challenge for “paranormal” phenomenon requires that you have some tentative conclusions about what is and isn’t “real.”
Anyway, I don’t think Randi has really embraced the label “debunker.” Many media profiles of him use it, but that’s not within his control.
I was amused to see the pitters in there frantically arm-waving, trying to draw the regulars into their fury over FTB. Meanwhile, the regulars just kept swatting them away like pesky flies.
man, slymepit is so aptly named.