He has now made several posts expressing his indignation that the media misquotes him. He really wants you to know that he never said aliens are going to hell.
Then Gray stated, “When Maher brought up the post . . . ” But Maher didn’t actually bring up the post. He regurgitated untruths that others were saying about my post. Maher said the following on his TV program:
Creationist Ken Ham who runs the Creation Museum . . . said this week that we should call off the search for extraterrestrial life because aliens haven’t heard the word of Jesus and thus are going to hell anyway.
So, Ms. Gray—where did I make that claim in my post? Check it out here.
Now, Gray does link to the video interview I did on Ray Comfort’s online program, where I made it very clear I did not say aliens “are going to hell anyway.”
But Gray of Salon.com didn’t want the truth get in the way of a good story in order to mock us!
It’s true, he didn’t say they were going to hell. He said that his magic book assured him that the creator of the universe only cares about one planet, Earth, and one very special species, us, and that Jesus’s agonizing death created blood magic that only helps human beings, so clearly there are simply not any aliens anywhere else in the universe.
The dang lamestream media needs to focus on that, his true message, which is of course not at all mockable.
Are you really sure that it isn’t?
Gee, last time I donated money no federal dollars were being used for project SETI. What private folks do with their computing time and spare money is no concern of Ham. Unless, of course, ET is found, then his whole “inerrant” book is a lie. And frankly, it sounds like Ham is scared that will happen.
That looks like a testable proposition, at least. So if we find evidence of aliens, Ham’ll recant his support of the (at least literalness) of the book?
Well, mortal men are always misquoted and thank our bejeebers that the Bible has NEVER changed a jot since it appeared with a little poof of dust last Wednesday or whenever the Pope says it did.
The discovery of extraterrestrial life would note make the Holy Babble a lie. A statememt made in the belief that it is true cannot be a lie, even if it is utter horseshit. Ken Ham and his ilk, OTOH are liars. They will say whatever keeps the money rolling in, however much it contradicts observed reality. Even Hambone knows that the sky is not a solid dome – a “firmament” – with water on the outside.
Ken “Just the Facts” Ham.
Actually, according to that same inerrant bible, not just a select species on earth, but JEWS! JEWS are the chosen people! Not ‘Merkins or Crisshuns or fuball pliers or anyone else – Jews are the chosen people – it says it over and over again, that inerrant book does. Either that, or god made a mistake?
Hammy wrote:
Okay, so he didn’t *explicitly* say “aliens are going to hell”, but isn’t Hell the default destination if one does achieve salvation? I guess we’re not supposed to extrapolate; stick with exactly what he sez, don’t interpret what he sez in any way. That’s fundamentalism for ya: interpretation not allowed, only exact words and only the words written down, in that exact arrangement of words.
Given how often Ham has misquoted scientists and lied about other people, I have a hard time feeling sorry for him now.
You know, if any advanced alien civilisations happen to be monitoring those funny intertoob things that minor species of semi-sapient ape uses on that insignificant mudball out in the galatic sticks, then I would just like to say here and now that Ken Ham and his delusional creobot cronies are not with the rest of us. If you have been offended by his babble, and feel the need to come down here and start getting all free with heat rays/mass drivers/horrible face-hugging parasite monsters, then Ken Ham is the one you want. We will happily direct you to him, and then you can be on your merry way while leaving the rest of the planet entirely non-disintergrated.
Really, taking him off our hands would do us all a favour, and while you are about it we have plenty of other religious fanatics, misogynistic MRA arsehats and assorted other vile bigots that you are welcome to as well, in case you need a light snack/target practice/parasite hosts during those long intergalatic voyages…
True. It’s implied that because of Adam, all UFO aliens are going to hell.
It’s the well known incompetence of the xian god again. He never thought of putting a sin firewall around the earth, thus poisoning the entire 14 billion year old universe forever.
We humans can easily do better. Even my Microsoft Windows computer operating system has a firewall!!!
No. Ham will instead continue to deny their existence. Probably insist that they’re actually demons or something because according to how he reads the book they can’t possibly exist. And if there’s a contradiction between his interpretation of something written down thousands of years ago and translated into English vs. reality, well, his interpretation wins out.
The worst part is – if you take an actual, literal interpretation of those thousands of year old words translated from Hebrew/Greek into English you cannot find any basis for Ham’s interpretation. At all. The authors were literally talking about Earth, not the universe (because they didn’t know what the universe was) and they were specifically speaking about humanity, not all life in the universe. There is no substance behind Ham’s claim to what’s in the Bible at all even if you want to be a textual literalist about it. But he’s made up his mind that it’s in there and so it must be in there somehow.
So basically Ken Ham takes the same approach to reading his Bible that he does to examining empirical research. If the Bible says something other than what he thinks it should say, he will insist that it says what he wants it to say and deny what the text actually says. The Bible might as well be an evolutionary biology textbook for as much as he seems to actually read it.
twas brillig #8 wrote:
Yes and no. That’s not a sign of fundamentalism; if anything, this stubborn refusal to recognize the negative implications of more “positive” side of religious statements is indicative of the effect the Enlightenment has had on religion in general.
I think a humanistic tolerance and the desire to seem “nice” are virtues which have crept into a basically divisive theology which has had to flourish in a diverse culture where we all have to live, work, and negotiate with those of different faiths and beliefs. Therefore even the folks who really do believe in a burning hell of fire and brimstone for the unsaved will often flinch and waffle about whether they really meant that, whether they said it — and whether they said it to or about someone in particular or are just making a general profession of what the Bible says so don’t lay it on them. Happy, happy.
It seems to me that both the liberal and the conservative denominations tend to focus on the “Good News!!!!!” aspect of Christianity, downplaying the state of affairs which must obtain if astonishment and hysterical joy is supposed to greet the idea of not being eternally cast off by the embodiment of Love after all. There is no salvation without damnation.
But point that out explicitly — call a spade a spade and say that people who aren’t saved must perforce be “damned” — and even Ken Ham winces. It sounds mean. Or, perhaps, it sounds a little bit too much like dictating what God should do instead of repeating what God told us He would do. Could be either … or both.
Ken needn’t worry. The discovery of any form of alien life will not undermine the validity of the Bible one whit. As it’s literature at best, and primarily ideological and political propaganda, none of it is valid in the first place.
Sastra @#13
He winces? Perhaps I’m missing something here, but it seems there are plenty of examples of serious Bible thumpers being perfectly happy with all sorts of godly horrors and going to some lengths to justify them as god’s will. I suspect they have little smiles inside when they tell people they are going to hell.
Well, only if they have souls. After all, mosquitos are not the children of Adam, and are therefore not Washed in the Blood of the Lamb, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to Hell.
But his basic point is that aliens would all be destined for Hell, yes. And that’s why God, in his Infinite Mercy, didn’t make any. And it’s that last step that everyone managed to miss.
And I can kind of see his point; you leave out the bit about aliens not existing and leave in the bit about SETI, and it becomes incoherent, rather than merely arrogant. “Don’t fund SETI because aliens are all going to Hell” is a lot more crazy than “Don’t fund SETI becuase aliens don’t exist”.
As neither Heaven nor Hell are on Earth then the bible clearly endorses alien life elsewhere in the universe.
And you’d better belive that’s what the theocrats will claim when alien life is discovered.
rossthompson:
I’ll take whichever place doesn’t have mosquitoes please.
Gregory @10:
Agreed. Now, I know we live on the wrong side of our arm of this spiral galaxy, but a lot of us are honest folk born into a bad situation. We want to stay out of the organized crime and sectarian turf wars of religion. We’d probably be moving up a little in the universe if we didn’t have put out so many fires. It’s nasty, it’s complicated, but we’re dealing with it as best we can. We’re also not too proud to ask for help if you’re willing to give any.
ken sham’s clearly betting against huxley:
Tony! #18
It’s quite possible they’re full of it though.
Why does anyone take any notice of Ken the Ham? The man’s a proven idiot and wouldn’t know the truth even if it bit him, if the actual truth conflicted with whatever it is that he has faith in. Bit like taking note of what that pope person in Italy has to say, silly nothings of no importance from a nasty old man in a dress and silly hat. The more publicity these people get, the more they’ll have to say. Ignore them and they’ll either shut up or keep their nonsense for those already defrauded.
robster — Are you failing to appreciate the entertainment value of the surreal? I recommend viewing La Chien Andalou repeatedly until you move to Omaha, or Latvia. Besides, the man craves mockery. It’s the cross he must bear.
As for the popesters…Unfortunately, their inanities do account for something, not nothing. Millions march to their whims. So we have to pay some attention to them. It’s a yucky job, but it’s our cross to bear.
…what if that’s why we keep hearing rumors about aliens doing sexual things to men they abduct? O.o
> He really wants you to know that he never said aliens are going to hell.
Perhaps he didn’t explicitly use those words, but that is what he said. The following are direct quotes:
“aliens would also be affected by Adam’s sin”
“they can’t have salvation”
“One day, the whole universe will be judged by fire”
I think the meaning is clear.