Giant squid attempt beachhead at Santa Cruz » « αEP: Complexity is not usually the product of selection

[Lounge #387]

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Giant squid attempt beachhead at Santa Cruz » « αEP: Complexity is not usually the product of selection

Comments

  1. Pteryxx says

    I have a bad feeling that in case of an actual apocalypse many of our skills at cooking and building and farming might be useless because they rely on a lot of industrially produced goods.
    So, while I know how to make jams and preserves and even pickles, they all rely on a supermarket that sells sugar and vinegar….

    Vinegar’s brewed like alcohol, right? And sugar’s been a store-bought staple for centuries; except for honey, the only sources’d be someone growing cane or beets, or reducing fruit juice. Oh, and maple syrup from those few weeks in winter.

    Doesn’t baking depend on some sort of white powder that comes in a tin?

    Also, honey for sugar, beeswax for sealing… we’re going to need a beekeeper. I’d volunteer because of the experience in my family, though I only got one lesson about the age of 4…

  2. Beatrice says

    We’ll have Portia and Joe waving rifles or something. And I’m small, I’ll sneak in.
    Oh no, I’m going to be Glenn (reference to The Walking Dead).

  3. opposablethumbs says

    Thank you rq, much appreciated!

    The Pharyngular Redoubt of Civilisation is going to be an interesting place, with people who know what’s what in health, food and drink (from soil and hoof to plate and cup), shelter and clothing, energy and community-building. Actually I suspect that if all the regulars were somehow able to gather there would be a very impressive skill-set between everyone – and not a “rugged individualist”-glibertarian-Iron John-alike in sight, thank FSM.

    I think Minnie the Finn can wrangle goats, if she’s around.

    Sorry about the mega-headache, Giliell. I have lots of spare paracetamol and ibuprofen now, so I’ll send you a few – they fit into the USB slot really easily.

  4. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Yes, but what system of government shall we have.
    And what place will Rebecca Watson have in our community?

  5. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    Had a totally bizarre dream last night. I, along with a small group of ninjas, was sneaking into Jerusalem during the time of the Roman Empire (judging from the uniforms of the guards). I don’t remember all of it, but monkeys, a trumpet, dancing girls, and a penguin were all involved. There were some funny parts involving a rabbit. Why they fuck do I remember the bad dreams so well, but one that was bizarre, funny and harmless is fleeting?

    So here you go, almighty patriarchal male overlord.

    You have me confused with an alpha male. I’m strictly beta.

    That would turn out fun

    Well, if you are into that sort of thing. My mind does that naturally.

    No thanks, I don’t think we’ll be as backwards as not having fire.

    Not to worry. I have a lighter.

    And yeah, I should be ok with fresh kills.

    Er, I think Fresh Kills is a landfill. Not the best place for a commune.

    If you can explain the principle involved, I can probably work out the details.

    If you ever get to Great Smoky Mountains National Park, they have a working water-powered grist mill there. And they use it.

    who’s in charge of getting all the birth control?

    Yet another use for sheep. The intestines can be used to make condoms.

    you could always invite your own personal ideal therapist/defender/champion/comforter into your head ready to deal with the remembered dreams when you wake.

    Introduce another voice into my head to deal with the voices in my head. Hmm. Sounds like a lady swallowing a fly. Might work. I’ll think about it.

    Also, vasectomies aren’t too hard to do.

    Done.

    This shoop enjoys being around you all, but will not consent to giving up any intestines…

    Right. That’s why we will use sheep (plural) not just one shoop.

    Also we’ll need to be some place where we can grow willows because aspirin is a good all purpose drug to have around.

    And we’ll need some good quality hemp. For the oil and the fibres.

    LIGHTpink, SOFTpink, BRIGHTpink, DULLpink and everyone’s favorite: POOPYHEADpink.

    No hot pink?

    There’s always Oregon, where I live: Lovely temperate cliamte, long growing season, right near a coast.

    And we can grow hops there. Very important. Beer creates civilization. And then makes it easier to bear.

    I’m a bureaucrat by profession. Which means that I’m pretty well useless for the PharynguCommune.

    People with organizational skills are very, very impotent. We need them. You.

    I have an extensive collection of books

    I was looking through my books last night. I have a history of cannons that even includes how they were made. So we won’t have to depend on the MDP for trebuchets.

    Teaching kids to make their own fraction “kits” and science observations/experiments should be a cinch. Learning to make ink and writing tools would be good practical work.

    And an historian so we don’t repeat the same idiocy again?

    I have six kinds of hammer.

    I have a rock hammer, a claw hammer, two guitars and two trumpets. Entertainment will be easy.

    Sage papa vizier.

    He’s green and smells good?

    a higly competent potter.

    Oh. I can blow glass. Takes a lot of infrastructure, but I can do it. Don’t know how to set it up, but I can blow.

  6. rq says

    Beatrice
    Well, as long as they’re waving rifles in a threatening manner (I’ll have the garden shears), you should be safe as can be. :)

    Pteryxx
    I know how to get the honey out of the comb once the comb is out of the hive.
    And flour isn’t hard at all – we still have some of the old threshing tools lying around Husband’s country estate (*ahem* family farm). The harvest will be most labour-intensive, but it’s all doable, seeing as Improbable Joe and Dalillama will be building a water-mill.

  8. says

    Oh no, I’m going to be Glenn (reference to The Walking Dead).

    I wasnt going to say it, but when I saw the talk about the Pharyngula commune, my first thought for some reason was of the group of survivors in the jail in that third season of TWD. No idea why. And I want to be the girl with the sword.

  9. rq says

    Beatrice
    No, that’s what Christians are for. /snark

    Ogvorbis
    Thanks for that review.

    Tony
    You can figure out which system would work best. It can’t be that hard, right? What with Portia writing laws and others working out bureaucratic circles around which the rest of us can run…

  10. says

    OK, I’ll go ahead and start stocking up on ammo now, and handloading supplies as well for when the factory ammo runs out. Anyone else wanting to help on guard/hunting duties, the correct weapon to buy is a 9mm Beretta Cx4 Storm. That’s the Beretta Cx4 Storm, chambered for 9mm ammunition, either carbine or pistol, or both. They share magazines with each other, and with the American military standard Beretta M9. Standardizing ammo and magazines streamlines the process, and allows us to share in a pinch.

    … I’m not a gun nut! I’m a zombie nut with a minor in gun nuttery.

  11. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Part of my book collection is a reasonable stack of tomes on subsistence farming as well as oldie timie skills like soap making, preserving and so on. Why do I have such things? Once upon a time it was the eighties and I believed that a nuclear assisted breakdown of society was all but assured. They were my hedge against the unlikely event of my surviving the initial conflagration. If I was going to starve to death I wanted to go down swinging. To this day I don’t understand now that attitude fit with a suicidal level of depression. Briannzzz, I no understand them.

    Today in our daily denial of entropy we find the zygotic house looking thusly. It doesn’t appear very different from this angle but much work has been done. Termite condom has been applied, insulation snuggled in and barred down by rebar, rebar and more rebar. We await the laying of hydronic floor heating pipes and then they pour, hopefully concrete though a giant tub of supercooled fluid would be nice right about now. Though not helium3 that stuff just won’t play nice.

    No real dramas today, sorry rq. Though I got up this morn and traipsed lightly and with joy in my heart down to the kitchen* to find our builder there with Mrs. Fishy discussing the accoutrements and geegaws of modern living. “Right,” says I “Good thing I put on pants.” “Indeed.” says our builder with out blinking an eye and much good humour, “None of us needed that first thing in the morning.” They are passing strange these Jehovahs, though I’m perhaps unfairly judging them by my prudish, prissy pentecostal brother.

    I did manage to rattle her a little when she criticised my previous days photo because the horizon wasn’t level. A fair cop that, but I couldn’t let it pass when she said “You need a builder’s eye.” To which I responded “Where would I put it? Maybe here?” gesturing to my forehead. It’s always best to keep those with whom you have some kind of rather large financial relationship in a little doubt as to one’s sanity. I’m pretty sure I read that in a self-help book….

    *portions of this missive have varying levels of truthiness.

  12. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    Thanks for that review.

    Not planned. I start reading, and commenting, and fill up the intertube with my bullshit.

    And sorry for the borkquote.

    for when the factory ammo runs out.

    Not to worry. I have lots of knives. Lots. Cooking and non-cooking. And Boy has a machete. Why? He’s Boy.

  13. birgerjohansson says

    “Yes, but what system of government shall we have”
    If you accept me as your Living God, I suggest theocracy.
    .
    “So we won’t have to depend on the MDP for trebuchets”
    Relevant Family Guy song about Xmas wishes; (Stewie) “yellowcake uranium, never mind the reason”
    — — — — — — — — — — —
    Was life inevitable? New paper pieces together metabolism’s beginnings http://phys.org/news/2012-12-life-inevitable-paper-pieces-metabolism.html
    — — — — — — — — — — — —
    No cure imminent but good basic science: Cancer stem cells isolated from kidney tumors http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-12-cancer-stem-cells-isolated-kidney.html

  14. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Shit, Oggie reminded me of the one skill that I have that might be of real* use: I came eighth in the British Columbia Fencing tournament for my age group. Which sounds good until you know that there were only fifteen combatants. Sigh. I really am zombie fodder aren’t I?

  17. dianne says

    If it’s the zombie apocalypse then my role will be the skeptic who gets eaten first. My distance vision is crappy making me horrible with any kind of distance weapon and I really don’t have the upper arm strength to be good with a sword or other hand weapon. Plus I’ll be saying, “Zombie, yeah, right,” as I walk straight into the middle of a horde of zombies. I’ll scream real loud so that the rest of you can get away while I’m getting my brains eaten. Remember my noble sacrifice (flutters eye lashes, cue dramatic music.)

  18. rq says

    Yeah, when it comes to zombies, I don’t have the best survival skills, either. I’m much better with immobile corpses (and taking samples from them), but you know, zombies and all that.

    Ogvorbis
    I really did mean thank you. Didn’t have time to elaborate.
    When many of our ideas are laid out like that, things start to seem either pretty plausible, or extremely IMplausible. A strange dichotomy.

  19. says

    Thanks dianne! Your sacrifice will be mentioned once and never again, in the spirit of The Walking Dead!

    Although to be fair, I could make you a great shot with a rifle with or without a scope. The scope would correct for your vision, but without a scope you should be focused on the front sight which is only a couple of inches from your eyes. I actually shoot a little better without my glasses at longer distances.

  20. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    so I am torturing myself listening to Mother Angelica live on a.m. Catholic radio and she’s talking about how we should pray harder for priests . how do you pray harder ?

  21. Beatrice says

    I have little upper body strength and my hands often shake. I think I’ll join dianne in bravely* sacrificing myself.

    *if whimpering and screaming until someone bites through my vocal chords after I accidentally fall in the middle of a herd counts as bravely

  22. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    Sigh. I really am zombie fodder aren’t I?

    No, you’re still ahead of me. Lame late-middle-aged sedentary historians like me have little place in the post-apocralyptic world.

    When many of our ideas are laid out like that, things start to seem either pretty plausible, or extremely IMplausible. A strange dichotomy.

    Marjonović-ing can be useful.

  23. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    dianne, you have, like, real medical knowledge ‘n stuff IIRC. No way you’re going down in the first reel. Saving you is a whole season’s story arc.

    I’ve always thought that a life of retail servitude for one’s daily crust was good training for the zombie apocalypse. Place me in a swarm of mindless, human looking creatures and tell me I don’t have to hold back and a lifetime of suppressing my rage at the stupidity of humanity will explode out in a flailing white hot ball of cathartic anger.

  25. Pteryxx says

    But, but we need the zombie-fodder folks to warn us of the mindgames of history, provide additional eyes and voices, and come up with cunning and vicious traps to guard the libraries and seed stock. <_< Granny effect FTW!

  26. Beatrice says

    dianne, you have, like, real medical knowledge ‘n stuff IIRC. No way you’re going down in the first reel. Saving you is a whole season’s story arc.

    Because sending the only person with medical knowledge scouting would be just dumb, right?

    (unless you’re a certain smart-ass sheriff *grumble*)

  27. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    Dianne, you have, like, real medical knowledge ‘n stuff IIRC

    Oh. Right. Forgot this one. I can teach first aid, AED and CPR. Not real medical knowledge, but useful.

    I’m always amazed by this grope. There are so many useful skills from so many people. This commune thing could work.

  28. Pteryxx says

    Ooh, anyone know how to do felting? That’s a good way (I’ve heard) to get actual cloth from nothing but furs.

    Oggie: first aid’s *extremely* valuable, probably more so than lots of medical info that, without infrastructure, would be of only academic interest. Heck, you could trade your expertise alone.

  29. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Tony: “so I am torturing myself listening to Mother Angelica live on a.m. Catholic radio and she’s talking about how we should pray harder for priests . how do you pray harder ?”

    Sure she’s not saying to pray for harder priests. The ultimate fear of every altar boy.

  30. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    There you go Ogvorbis.

    Now, if knowing how to resolve a half-dim seven chord, or how to accurately identify and describe a first edition book for the purpose of selling it on-line, or how to tension balance a spoked bicycle wheel would be useful to the longterm survival of the commune perhaps I would be worth saving. Er, that last one might be pretty useful come the end of refined oil come to think of it. Hooray, I’s saved! That is I will be saved, er, in a totally non-religious way, uh, what’s that over there! It looks like a vampire walking in daylight!

    [runs away]

  32. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    chigau: “I have decided to be a zombie.”

    Avoid Tea Party rallies. You’ll starve.

  33. Beatrice says

    Sure she’s not saying to pray for harder priests. The ultimate fear of every altar boy.

    *cringe*
    —

    Chiggers,
    I was thinking of incorporating Beezy into my name, but urban dictionary says beezy is a form of bitch. :/

    …and I can’t access my profile. Help?

  34. says

    Home sweet home.
    Especially home sweet home before a very wet snow turns very cold streets into a frozen hell

    opposablethumbs
    Thanx.
    I actually carry Paracetamol in my handbag, so it’s much better now, although the little one crying for about 30 min because she’s tired didn’t help much…

    Pteryxx
    Sure, only:
    How many acres of land are there going to be in this commune and, more importantly, how many hours is the post-apocalyptical day going to have?
    As for the white powder: yeast and sourdough are easy manageble to keep.
    Talking about it, I basically know how to make sauerkraut and sour beans, which will provide vitamins in winter.
    I say we team Mr. up with dianne and let them work out the chemical/medical stuff.

  35. says

    chigau: “I have decided to be a zombie.”

    Avoid Tea Party rallies. You’ll starve.

    Have you ever noticed that in most zombie-movies nobody gets ever actually eaten? They just get turned into more zombies. Who apparently don’t hurt each other, although the brain of that newly-turned zombie would be quite fresh and much easier to get than that of the heavily armed heroIne. Seems like zombies are much better people than non-zombie people.

  36. chigau (Chiggers) says

    Beatrice (Beezy ) #531

    …and I can’t access my profile. Help?

    Here is how I managed:
    Logged out.
    Logged in using the link on the very bottom of the sidebar.
    That took me directly to the Dashboard.
    Proceeded as usual.

  37. dianne says

    dianne, you have, like, real medical knowledge ‘n stuff IIRC. No way you’re going down in the first reel. Saving you is a whole season’s story arc.

    In that case, I’ll just go out in the woods to pick some berries. I’m sure that weird grunting noise I hear is nothing important…

  38. thunk, cold air advection says

    I have no useful skills, apart from meteorology and other academic stuff. I’m also a very picky eater.

    Go on without me.

  39. chigau (Chiggers) says

    dianne

    In that case, I’ll just go out in the woods to pick some berries. I’m sure that weird grunting noise I hear is nothing important…

    You can probably safely go for a swim, too.

  40. Pteryxx says

    What, meteorology’s hella important. Knowledge, record-keeping, precise calendars and a network of ham radio could save a lot of lives and crops.

  42. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    thunk, considering how whacked out the weather is going to be, the ‘mune will need someone who can tell us that the barometer dropping 8 millibars in fifteen minutes, combined with the sound of a freight train, means bad things are coming.

  43. Rey Fox says

    And what place will Rebecca Watson have in our community?

    Unquestioned goddess-tyrant, of course.

  44. says

    thunk
    Well, the sad truth is that in many manual work there’s need for one genius mastermind and lots of people who do what they’re told.
    I suppose that there would soon be a rule that said you ain’t allowed to ask “why” while working.

  45. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    And what place will Rebecca Watson have in our community?

    Unquestioned goddess-tyrant, of course.

    Sounds like this ‘mune will have some ups and downs.

  46. carlie says

    Srsly, you people. Is parametocol the same as acetaminophen? Because you’re using words I, as a red-blooded americun, DO NOT UNDERSTAND. Next we’ll have barbies and lifts and who knows what bloody else.

    Go on without me.

    *grabs thunk, straps thunk to drag/carry board, attaches huskies*

  48. dianne says

    Seems like zombies are much better people than non-zombie people.

    Maybe if we can work out communication, we can sort out the nutritional issues and have a combined human/zombie commune. Especially if thunk and chigau have already become zombies.

  52. dianne says

    Next we’ll have barbies and lifts and who knows what bloody else.

    I’m going to have to out you on this one. USians don’t use “bloody” as a bloody curse. Clearly, you’re really a Canadian pretending. USians also call themselves “Americans” not “USians”, but I’m engaging in wish fulfillment fantasies and pretending to be Canadian.

  55. Rey Fox says

    I notice that no one has taken me into the post-apocalypse commune. I guess ecology really is the domain of the privileged.

  56. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Beatrice, I have heard some gay guys refer to Beyonce as Beezy. Not sure if it is still meant as bitch.

  57. Beatrice says

    Rey Fox,

    People aren’t really taken into the commune, they declare themselves members. At least I did that. Er, I guess that’s fine. *awkward*

  59. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Hmm.

    Skills I have to offer the commune:
    I can knit, bake from scratch, grow yeast in a vat (and dry them for storage), cook, build fires and do basic construction. I also know how to extract heparin from pig guts, but without advanced tech, I am highly skeptical of the practicality of the process in the commune. I also know how to do blood typing using basic crap that will be lying around. I know how to build an autoclave that does not use electricity.

    I can also teach people these things.

    In exchange for bringing these skills, I ask that the others in the commune take care of me after I run out of medicine. After I run out, I calculate that I’ll have about 2 months before I’ll need round-the-clock care.

    Yes, that was morbid. *shrug*

  60. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Rey:
    List of skills you possess?
    Medical history?
    Any ailments or preexisting conditions?
    ****
    I forgot I have a fair amount of exercise know how. I could set up programs catered to individual needs. I will help make everyone stay fit as they can be/desire. Running from zombies may be necessary…

  62. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Amusing anecdote:

    Coworker walked past my desk, carrying a steaming mug of tea. It smelled amazing. The following conversation ensued:
    Me: Wow, that smells great. What kind of tea is that?
    Him: Green.
    Me: Okay. *sees him put a package of loose leaf away* Where do you get your tea?
    Him: My grandmother sends it to me.
    Me: Oh? Do you know where she gets it?
    Him: She grows it. She lives in Taiwan.
    Me: Oh. Yes. Of course.

    *so jealous*

  63. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Am I the only one who thinks USians sounds odd? Canadians, Russians, Australians–all sound _right_ USians doesn’t.

  64. Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it! says

    Probably because “US” is an acronym, Tony. But I’m not sure “(United) Statesians” sounds much better.

  65. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    Considering the resource consumption per capita in the US, USE-ians is remarkably apropos.

  66. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Wait…after the apocalypse, there won’t be any tv. How will we cope without 19 and counting, Honey Boo Boo, or FOX news?
    ::slinks away depressed::

  67. dianne says

    I like estadounidense, but it’s abbreviated EU, which is confusing. Vereinigen StaatburgerInnen. Nah…

  68. carlie says

    I’m going to have to out you on this one. USians don’t use “bloody” as a bloody curse.

    I was hoping someone would notice that. :)

    Just as I have adopted y’all despite never living in the South, I have also adopted bloody as a cursey adjective. Take good words whenever you can find ’em, that’s my mot-to.

    Am I the only one who thinks USians sounds odd?

    Required song

  69. Rey Fox says

    Canadians, Russians, Australians–all sound _right_ USians doesn’t.

    That’s why I still use “American”. If the rest of the hemisphere doesn’t like it, they should have taken the initiative and named their country after the continent.

  70. Pteryxx says

    Wait…after the apocalypse, there won’t be any tv. How will we cope without 19 and counting, Honey Boo Boo, or FOX news?

    Or Survivorman? ;>

  71. says

    I like estadounidense, but it’s abbreviated EU, which is confusing. Vereinigen StaatburgerInnen. Nah…

    No, actually it’s EEUU. Things that are plural get double letters in abreviations.

    +++
    I’m imagining the teaching to be a lot of on the job training. Picture #1 running behind dianne as she treats the appendix of some poor commune member:
    “and here you see beautifully how the colon winds. Now, if you ever need to do this, do that first. the thing over there is….”

  72. thunk, cold air advection says

    I don’t want to be a zombie, thank you very much. I like my mental faculties.

  74. Pteryxx says

    Unrelated: MoJo article on unnoticed families in the classification ‘extreme poverty’:

    But Edin and Shaefer wanted to see just how deep that poverty went. In doing so, they relied on a World Bank marker used to study the poor in developing nations: This designation, which they dubbed “extreme” poverty, makes deep poverty look like a cakewalk. It means scraping by on less than $2 per person per day, or $2,920 per year for a family of four.

    In a report published earlier this year by the University of Michigan’s National Poverty Center, Edin and Shaefer estimated that nearly 1 in 5 low-income American households has been living in extreme povery; since 1996, the number of households in that category had increased by about 130 percent. Among the truly destitute were 2.8 million children.

    […]

    In the researchers’ eyes, it was a bombshell. But the media barely noticed. “Nobody’s talking about it,” Edin gripes.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/extreme-poverty-unemployment-recession-economy-fresno

  75. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    Hm, I might actually do well as a zombie.

    And you can commute on TRAAAAAINS!

  76. Beatrice says

    And you can commute on TRAAAAAINS!

    There would be good eating on a TRAAAAAAIN during rush hour.

  77. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    There would be good eating on a TRAAAAAAIN during rush hour.

    Unless you’re a vegan zombie. Not too many GRAAAAINZ on TRAAAAAINS!

  78. Beatrice says

    Unless you’re a vegan zombie. Not too many GRAAAAINZ on TRAAAAAINS!

    *ponders*
    Nah.
    BRAAAAAINS

  80. cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused) says

    Europe’s First Cattle Farmers Quickly Added Cheese to Menu
    –
    I refuse to believe that the lot of us, all together, don’t have enough books (some of them on useful topics) to constitute a very respectable post-apocalyptic library.
    –

    We™ have a treadle sewing machine.

    We™ are envious. We™ had a shot at a treadle sewing machine, once; but Our™ stoopid SiL (okay, it was The Husband’s sister, but my SiL) sold it.
    –

    Don’t need to automate bringing water to the top of the hill. Find minions to carry buckets back up to the top – have never-ending string on minions, and voila! – a working stepped hydroponic fish pond.

    Did Archimedes screw in vain?
    –
    The Husband can also do plumbing and wiring.
    .
    .
    .
    Okay, so I may not be particularly post-apocalyptically useful—goodness knows I won’t be able to out-run the marauding bands of zombies/mutants/survivalists—but do accept The Husband into the commune, anyway! He’s no end useful!
    –

    What role does PZ play in this?

    Speaker to Cephalopods.
    –
    Preview’s fucked; I hope this all sorts itself out in the Submit Comment phase.

  81. says

    birgerjohansen

    If you accept me as your Living God, I suggest theocracy.

    I claim that position by right of seniority. I already have 6 guys in California who worship me for tax reasons.
    thunk

    I have no useful skills, apart from meteorology and other academic stuff. I’m also a very picky eater.

    Hey, we’ll need someon to help us keep track of the weather. Weather’s the most important thing there is to farmers, always has been. Granted, without fancy equipment, you won’t be quite as good

    Rey Fox
    Nope, your job is to time the burns in our local woodland. Gotta keep the underbrush down to encourage the deer and rabbit supply, plus there are sme edible plants that grow well in thoes conditions. Also we’ll need your help bringing the Camas lilies back. Large-scale land mamgement FTW.

    Esteleth
    What medicine was that again? We’re talking about making some kinds. Besides, with proper planning I think a significant tech base could be retained.

    Nitroglycerin’s doable if we’ve got electricity. If I’ve got glass and electricity I can make nitric acid, and glycerin’s a byproduct of lye soap making, which I also know how to do. I can totally make a still, too, and I know the recipe for black powder (although if we’ve got nitric acid we may as well go straight to nitrocellulose) Also I’ve got organizational skills.

    re: USians
    ‘Yanks/Yankees’ works perfectly well for me.
    And I do so use ‘bloody’ as a curse, but I didn’t pick it up from my fellow Yanks.

  82. says

    Oh yes, and from a little farther upthread:
    re:Flour
    Not only a watermill, but also a water powered thresher are quite possible. And also a McCormick reaper so ease the harvest.

    Re:Survivalists, that started this whole thing
    Someone upthread noted that the survivalist schtick is very colonialist. On reflection it really is a perfect recreation of the classic American meme of the Noble Pioneer defending his Homestead and Family from the savage natives rebelling slaves commie hordes radioactive mutants zombies. Yeah, zombies, that’s the ticket.

  83. Emrysmyrddin says

    YAHOO! currently has a poll on the main US page asking if users think that being gay is a choice.
    I think it requires a little Pharyngulation: ‘not a choice’ is on 47%.

    A monitor passing it on to PZ’d be nice too – I mean, Yahoo!…

  85. Pteryxx says

    (although if we’ve got nitric acid we may as well go straight to nitrocellulose)

    Point of order… where do we get the paper from? Is it easy to make from random available stuffs as long as you have some window screen in a frame?

  87. cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused) says

    ‘Course, if I am able to get the Hoverchair10000™ project funded and completed (with lazors, disintegration rays, forcefield, and shark bazookas), it becomes a whole different ball game. Zombies, fundies, muties—I’ll take ’em all on!

    And if we decide to install a moat, I’ll just discharge a coupla rounds into the water, and we’re set.
    –
    The Husband also has the requisite equipment for reloading ammo.

    And we also have swords.
    –

    I have no useful skills, apart from meteorology and other academic stuff. I’m also a very picky eater.

    Meteorology is a useful skill! My ears are only a very rough guide to ongoing changes in pressure.

    Go on without me.

    No.
    –
    Rey—We Do Not Leave Our People Behind.
    –

  89. Emrysmyrddin says

    Sorry, it may be my poor HTML-fu: it’s on the main yahoo.com page, scroll down about a page-and-a-half, and it’s on the right-hand side.

  91. says

    Pteryxx

    Point of order… where do we get the paper from? Is it easy to make from random available stuffs as long as you have some window screen in a frame?

    Oggie’s hemp plantings, of course. It’s dead easy to make, especially once we put together the decorticator. You don’t need to go all the way to paper for nitrocelluose, though. Just a mass of fibers. The paper we’ll use for record keeping, writing down campfire stories, etc.

  93. rq says

    Worst comes to worst, birch bark can be used for writing. If peeled properly and dried flat, it keeps rather well. I’ve seen letters written in Siberia and mailed still legible.

    As Ogvorbis mentions in 525, I am also very impressed with this grope. Honestly, we have a functioning society here. Except for those opting out to be zombies, of course. And I think it should be said that everyone, absolutely everyone, is welcome – just declare yourself a member, list some random (no matter how random) skills, and be accepted into your new cultfamily!

    +++

    This was one let’s-judge-the-mother evening. Oof. I’m glad that part’s over.

  94. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    I am also very impressed with this grope.

    Cute creative misspelling. I like it. And Tpyos is pleased.

  95. opposablethumbs says

    :(( when I go to yahoo.com all I get is some silly poll about the Skyfall Bond film :((

  97. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    rq:

    Oh. Sorry. Never mind.

    Here’s a perfect example of how mindfucked I am. When I thought it was rq’s creative misspelling, I thought it cute and clever. Then it is pointed out that it is mine and I immediately think it is silly and wonder if rq is saying it is good just to set me up for something down the line (I know you aren’t, but that’s how my brain still works).

  98. Beatrice says

    re:yahoo

    Maybe someone told them what a fucking stupid and insulting question they were asking.

  99. Beatrice says

    Grope isn’t rq’s misspelling? Too bad, I wanted to tease her about the combination of that and her funkadelic mushrooms from yesterday? ;)

  100. jose says

    The Spanish government conducted a study on the pay gap. Yes, it’s real; no, it’s not because of working hours or because of the type of job. In fact, the gap is bigger for high income jobs.

    Just wanted to put it out there for future reference.

  102. rq says

    Beatrice
    What are you on at the moment? I don’t think I understood your last comment. :P Or maybe I did, all too well………..

    No, Ogvorbis is getting all cute and clever with his misspellings. I just choose to pay attention to ignore the mushrooms. :)

    But to be a bit serious, Ogvorbis, it’s still a cute and clever misspelling and I do indeed like it. If you don’t want me making jokes about it, let me know. It is never my intention to set you (or anyone else) up for some kind of evil tricks later on down-thread. Seriously.

  103. rq says

    Oh never mind Bea I got your last comment. :P The question mark in the middle confused me. I thought you were getting incoherent for whatever (chemically induced) reason… My bad.

  105. Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken says

    If you don’t want me making jokes about it, let me know.

    No, I have no problem with you using it. I was just noting something I hadn’t noticed before under the heading of ‘I am broken’.

    Works well with strumpet solo and Tpyos. What do you call a large number of Pharyngulites together? A Grope of Pharyngulites!

  106. rq says

    Oooh, that’s nice! Much better than a Murder of Crows.
    I like, very much. A Grope of Pharyngulites. :D

  108. rq says

    Yes, Giliell, bring it (xir?)!! Absolutely gorgeous!
    Why is xe being sent off? Time out for bad behaviour?

  109. Beatrice says

    Giliell,

    That dragon is brilliant! If we get hold of enough materials before the apocalypse, it might be required that you make one for each one of us.

  110. says

    An acquaintance just asked me in all seriousness what the justification is for reservations still existing, and why the US doesn’t just get rid of them, since they’re so shitty and the Indians would be better off assimilating.

    I’m going to go bang my head into a wall for a bit.

  111. Beatrice says

    Caerie,

    Banging your friend’s head into the wall would make better use of the wall. And your friend’s head.

    NOTE: This was a joke. I do not advocate violence.

  112. cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused) says

    An acquaintance just asked me in all seriousness what the justification is for reservations still existing, and why the US doesn’t just get rid of them, since they’re so shitty and the Indians would be better off assimilating.

    This is a job for the Nerf Clue-bat, applied vigorously.
    –

  115. rq says

    Caerie @608
    Just not too hard. :/

    And I don’t know about the rest of you, but I don’t want to allow any MRAs into the commune, not without a serious and intensive rehabilitation program. If they pass, fine, they still have to be on probation for a while. If they fail, toss them back to the individual survivalists behind the fence.

  116. rq says

    Janine
    How revolting. :( Just… disgusting.

    And on that tasteful note, I will be signing off. No late night for me tonight.
    To the rest of you, hugs (esp. Ogvorbis for his post #13 on the Jezebel-MRA post), good nights, good thoughts, good wishes (esp. for FossilFishy‘s house) and general goodwill to all!!
    For a while, I’ve wanted to sign off on these things with ‘Love, [insert real name]’. Not sure why. :P
    Probably because this is such an amazing groupgrope.

  117. says

    rq
    The dragon is a christmas present, so xie’ll leave tomorrow, but I might make myself one…

    +++
    Well, that’s christians and muslims together in their hate. You could call it progress…
    Yes, I’m cynical. We’ll have a sufficient supply of cynism at the commune

  118. Pteryxx says

    More stomach-turningness (but not new news mostly)… Libby Anne’s latest insightful article on why child-molesting priests and pastors still get allowed to preach, and it’s not just about authority like the Catholic church employs. It’s expanding on JT’s recent post about such a pastor in a Baptist church. (Honestly I had to go away from the article because what she says rings SO TRUE.) (Warning: rape culture insight)

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/12/why-sex-offenders-return-to-the-pulpit.html

  119. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Threadrupt yet again but: Giliell, may I say a resounding “Hell yes!” for that dragon. That right there is some fantastic work.

  120. carlie says

    Um, don’t look now, but is the site background suddenly all water for anyone else? Just me?

  122. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink…

  124. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Carlie:
    Yes.
    While the page was loading, all I saw was water. I was worried I screwed something up.

  125. says

    I’m reading* Ethan of Athos. It’s hilarious. I loved the part where they were discussing why there wre only so few “refugees” from Teh Ebil Gynocracy, and wondering why the few that they get are “strange”. I was imagining that they were getting the MGTOW guys as immigrants, and being weirded out at just how fucked up these dudes were :-p

    – – – – – –
    *well, not right now. Right now I’m procrastinating the finishing of that goddamned Women’s Suffrage project that I can’t seem to be able to get written

  126. carlie says

    Right now I’m procrastinating the finishing of that goddamned Women’s Suffrage project that I can’t seem to be able to get written

    Inspiration

  129. says

    I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what Bujold is implying.

    I figured, but you know, this is much more entertaining now than it would have been 2-3 years ago when I didn’t know such dudes existed. I don’t think I would have been able to imagine quite so vividly what those “strange” immigrants would be like without the existence of manboobs

  131. says

    Good lord a’mighty, it’s stupid out there today.

    Indeed. And out here it’s stupid and cold and snowing and dark and the bloody liquor stores won’t open until 9, or in three hours.

  136. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    I’m done for the night.
    I can’t handle any more Special Gay Snowflakes tonight.
    I’m fucking pissed off.
    One thread at a time is more than enough.
    Trying to do two threads full of scumbags is hard.

    My hat is off to you folks who can do it.

  137. Rey Fox says

    Hey, hey hey. Did you all know that men cannot form babby? It’s true! Or else it must be, because the Shermer idiots are lining up to share that insight with us! If this really is true, then it is truly a Deep Rift between the sexes!

  140. says

    How was my day, you ask? Well let’s put it this way: I realised when I heard the somewhat unexpected sound of birds singing outside while surfing the net last night, that I wasn’t going to work at 8am.

    Also, that warm and fuzzy feeling when you tell the cocksure 12 year old medical registrar that your patient whom he decided to send home against your will and advice the evening before, had meningococcal septicaemia.
    I’m bad, I know.

  141. chigau (Chiggers) says

    rorschach
    On one of my public transit trips today I listened to a conversation between two medical-type people who were on their way to a x-mas party (both carrying some pot-luck stuff).
    They were graphically describing wound-closures and drying of tissue and the appropriate dressings. (with hand gestures)
    The other people on the transit were edging away and I was leaning in.

  142. says

    conversation between two medical-type people who were on their way to a x-mas party

    I dread social occasions with my collegues. It always seems that all they can think of to talk about is work-related. The mindless bickering and awkward smalltalk about the latest study results are just mindnumbing. Maybe it’s a medical thing.

  143. chigau (Chiggers) says

    rorschach
    It’s not just a medical thing.
    If an Historian marries an Archaeologist they both go to Gatherings that bore them to tears.

  144. rq says

    Good morning to all!
    Sounds like it’s been a rough night/day/sequence of hours. :/
    I am surprised to hear that the Michael Shermer thread is still alive and struggling. Hugs and support to all still fighting in those comments.

    The Hobbit
    I have always liked The Hobbit better than LoTR, considering I could barely muddle my way through all the annoying characters.

    +++

    Yesterday I realized I have about 10 days until the Big Winter Celebration, and I still have lots of presents missing. Bah.

  145. chigau (Chiggers) says

    I know I’ve said this before but
    if I had read The Hobbit first, I would not have read LotR.
    —
    now I’m for bed

  147. Beatrice says

    When and if you [general you] watch The Hobbit, please share a short review here. I read that it’s too long and boring (almost three hours of drawn out detailed descriptions of details).

  148. strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more says

    Unless you already read and enjoyed The Lord of the Rings, I can’t possibly recommend that you bother. I thought all four books were insufferable. I can get into the movies, though.

  149. strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more says

    I meant I can get into The Lord of the Rings movies. I am not so excited about a single ~300 page book dragged out to ~500 minutes of film.

  150. says

    Unless you already read and enjoyed The Lord of the Rings, I can’t possibly recommend that you bother.

    I read LoTR in German translation (that included the names of protagonists) as a teenager and loved it, and when I saw the movies had only a vague recollection of the storyline, as well as being unfamiliar with the (English)names, it was a bit weird, but I liked the movies a lot.
    No idea why I never read Hobbit.

  152. strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more says

    I read LoTR in German translation (that included the names of protagonists) as a teenager and loved it,

    Then I’d recommend you read The Hobbit. You’ll probably like it.

  153. rq says

    Definitely read The Hobbit. Everyone should read The Hobbit.

    Beatrice
    Is that true, about the movie? Too long, too much detail – and 3 hours??? They do realize they have two more movies, right??
    If that is true, then it makes me sad, and all my worst fears (concerning the movie) come true. :(
    Maybe when they make all three, they can make one condensed version that does the book justice. If they don’t, I’ll hire my sister to do it (from the three Peter Jackson movies).

  155. Beatrice says

    I’m probably not going to watch it in the cinema. Unless my friend actually travels from another town to see the movie, then I’ll have to.

  156. rq says

    169!!!!!
    That’s as-good-as 3 hours! I’ll be watching it in cinema, too, probably (sad, sad, sad, but true…), with the older kids, but… wow. :( I haz a sad for this.

  157. bobo says

    http://news.yahoo.com/calif-judge-says-victims-body-prevent-rape-023033459.html

    A Southern California judge is being publicly admonished for saying a rape victim “didn’t put up a fight” during her assault and that if someone doesn’t want sexual intercourse, the body “will not permit that to happen.”

    Johnson, a former prosecutor in the Orange County district attorney’s sex crimes unit, said during the man’s 2008 sentencing that he had seen violent cases on that unit in which women’s vaginas were “shredded” by rape.

    “I’m not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something: If someone doesn’t want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage is inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case,” Johnson said.

    Johnson said he believed the prosecutor’s request of a 16-year sentence was not authorized by law. Johnson sentenced the rapist to six years instead, saying that’s what the case was “worth.”

    wow!

  158. rq says

    Wow.
    After that link, I think we should bring as many dragons as possible to the commune.

    +++

    Giliell
    I think you should definitely make another dragon, for weekday nights when Mr. isn’t home. A bigger one to cuddle with. Or lots of smaller ones (because who else can say they have a pile of dragons at hoe??).
    I’d love one myself.

  159. says

    Got to love blogging, the rewards are just so immense! So, I have written 1690 blog posts in the last 2 1/2 years, and my audience dropped from 2000 to 80 a day, after my recent sabbatical of only a few weeks. So now I consider 250 pageviews once more as a golden day!

  162. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Heh. Your 80 has my page views beat by an order of magnitude roschach, even when I was regularly posting.

    So today what do we find? Is it the first blush of youth? No, it’s just the hydronic floor heating pipes laid in place, their geometric prettiness awaiting a concrete veil to conceal them from prying eyes. I wasn’t really on board with this particular feature of the house plan. The damn thing is suppose to be eight star (out of ten) energy efficient when we’re done, so why do we need floor heating? Because Mrs. Fishy wants it, she thinks the polished concrete floors will be cold underfoot. We’ll see, even if we never need it, it’ll be a selling point should it come time to move on.

    Mind you, I do love that I’ll have my very own mini dowsing test rig. I’m going to go over tomorrow with the ladder and tape measure to get the scale of that grid and take a good overhead pic of the layout. Here’s hoping I can sucker some dowser into putting money on finding the route of those pipes.

  164. rq says

    FossilFishy
    Wait… She lives in Australia, and wants heated floors underfoot?? You’d think the winters are cold over there or something. :)
    We have them here, but that’s because January/February usually comes with a -30 on the thermometer for a couple of weeks, and then – well, we’re on the first floor with basement underneath. (Come summer, though, I love the coolness of the floors. Hopefully yours will remain cool and not-turned-on in the summertime. Imagine the resulting heat…)
    Good luck with the dowser; and let us now how it turns out. I’m up for a good laugh. :)

  165. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Yup, rq. We do live in the ‘cold’ part of Australia: Alpine Victoria. Last week we had daytime temps up in the mid 30’s C and night time temps down to around 10c. Strange.

    But facts are that Victorians in general spend more per year on heating than they do on cooling. The whole point of the design is that the floor is a thermal mass that re-radiates heat into the space in winter after sundown and absorbs heat during the day in summer. We really shouldn’t need the heat unless there’s a run of a week or two with overcast conditions and little daytime temperature rise.

    One of the sad things about ecological building is that for the sake of re-sale you have to put in the heating and cooling systems that people expect in a less efficient house. There is a general disbelief, as with Mrs. Fishy, that proper passive solar design and insulation can achieve reasonable temperature moderation all by itself.

    I should clarify that I don’t have any dowser in particular in mind. They do exist around here though so it’s only a matter of time before I encounter one.

  166. rq says

    FossilFishy
    Thanks for the explanation. Also, ideas for heat efficiency in future rq-family home… :)
    To be honest, all houses I know of are the already-insulated, central-heating types that you find in Canada and other northerly climates. :)
    I know my mother complained (when visiting my dad’s family) that she’d never been as cold as she was during that Australian winter (old house, not built for cold, and my grandma’s penchant for opening all windows even during cold, windy days and wandering the house complaining about how cold it is…).
    But I think people just tend not to trust modern technologies… I know I’m slow to accept, and I’m supposed to be a member of the new, young, forward-thinking generation. You know, have the old bits in there just in case it’s a harsher winter than expected and the new bits don’t work out to their expectations. Sometimes I wonder, when modern washing machines came into being, did people leave their old handwashing tubs around, just in case?

  167. ImaginesABeach says

    Dalillama – Your ‘nym no longer links to L’s etsy shop. (I’m the hat-buyer).

    rorschach – when did you start blogging again? When you took a break, I kept checking for a while, and eventually lost hope.

  168. says

    when did you start blogging again?

    Last few days only. Mostly motivated by stuff i saw on Twitter. And this time it will be without the pressure of having to deliver. It will be like a neonate’s bowel motions, anything from 5 a day to once a week.

  169. Pteryxx says

    No, it’s just the hydronic floor heating pipes laid in place, their geometric prettiness awaiting a concrete veil to conceal them from prying eyes.

    aww, floor HEATING pipes. here my first thought was you were building the concrete base for a skating rink. <3

  170. StevoR says

    Did anyone else see the Letterman show interview with someone from a new film on Human Induced Rapid Global Overheating (HIRGO) called, I think. ‘Chasing Ice’ and featuuring at least one very rapidly retreating glacier? I caught just part of it towards the end looked pretty interesting.

  172. rq says

    Something’s not right. I nearly put butter into my tea instead of honey, and the containers aren’t even close to similar.

  173. rq says

    Also, speaking of tea, apparently a tinge of bergamot is not feminine enough, since the counterpart to Earl Grey tea is now Lady Grey, ‘flavoured with romance!’ Because I drink my tea for the romance, yo.
    I think I like bergamot better.

  175. Beatrice says

    rq,

    I had some Lady Grey tea bags, but mine weren’t flavoured with romance. I feel cheated. :(

  176. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Notes to self:

    1. Remember to read previous notes on this exact subject
    2. DO NOT READ MOVIES REVIEWS of movies you are going to see regardless of the review.

    sigh, a certain movie I’ve been waiting to see for years is now at least partially ruined.

  177. rq says

    Beatrice
    You should complain to the manufacturer. I’m sure they can rectify the situation, and send you a complimentary box of romance to make up for the omission. ;)

  181. says

    OMG, some people are stupid
    I want to book tickets for the Family-concert “Tchaikowski’s Sleeping Beauty” with the radio philharmonic orchestra and a pupeteer.
    On the posters it says:
    Adult: 10€, Child: 5€, Family: 20€
    So I called the ticket hotline to order ONE family ticket.
    I get the bill per mail and while they booked 4 seats, they also want me to pay 4 family tickets.
    So I called them back, explained it, told them it makes no sense that I should pay more than twice the money those seats would cost individually and get asked: “Yes, that’s true, but how do I book those other seats?”
    I told the person friendlily that that’s herjob, not mine…

    *sees incoming mail*
    Apparently they were able to figure it out….

  183. Beatrice says

    Giliell,

    I get the bill per mail and while they booked 4 seats, they also want me to pay 4 family tickets.

    *blink*
    That’s a nice business they’ve got going there.

  184. rq says

    Giliell
    Huh. You mean you didn’t get the memo where it lets you know that having a family means a lot more expenses? :P
    (I’m glad they’ve got things sorted out, though. I hope it’s a great show and I hope the kids like it!)