French courts have upheld the Church of Scientology’s conviction, and Xenu and pals are going to have to cough up €600,000.
A French appeals court on Thursday upheld the Church of Scientology’s 2009 fraud conviction on charges it pressured members into paying large sums for questionable remedies.
“Large sums for questionable remedies”…you know that applies to every religion, right? So when will the Catholic church be put in the docket?
Although, admittedly, €600,000 would be pocket change to the Vatican. I think the sum ought to be vastly larger to cover 15 centuries of lies.
The Catholic church is clever in that it doesn’t charge. It just asks for donations, lots of them. Hard to demand a refund for a willful donation, even if your prayers aren’t working.
Across the pond, the FDA has said your stem cells are a drug.
The Catholic Church is irked that “new atheists” don’t treat it with the deference and respect they got from the “old atheists,” and even refer to magical bread transubstantiation as “baggage.” (Just imagine! People rude enough to insult a cracker!)
PZ,
far be it from me to defend the Catholic Church, but
– do you really say that the voluntary contributions of those few Catholics still going to mass regularly (France, unlike Germany and other European countries, does not have a church tax system which the government helps deduct from your salary) are as harmful as the huge sums Scientology tries to get out of each and every member? Doesn’t taking the entire course cost something in the six figures? In that regard, Scientology is a different ballgame.
– also it’s not 15 centuries, but 19. The French Catholic Church is sometimes called the “oldest daughter of the church”. However, the church lost its vast landholdings during this little anti-clerical event also known as the French Revolution, and even afterwards never got the lands back (see the Concordat between Napoleon I and the church). Also, during a later anti-clerical phase, the state nationalised education and introduced a strict separation of church and state (known as laicism) into the constitution. I’m not saying the Catholic church in France is poor now, but it’s not just amassed riches, it’s also lost them.
Of course this is in no way means that their teachings make any more sense than those of Scientology..
On a more joyful note, the Catholics: atheists ratio in France is now 51:31! Yay.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1539093/France-no-longer-a-Catholic-country.html
(sorry it’s not a ratio, it’s 51% as opposed to 31%.)
The RCC can’t be made to pay out large sums of money in fraud cases. It needs to save its assets to pay off its victims of child rape.
Pffft.
No problem, they’ll just up the frequency their mindless followers have to have (and pay for) their audits.
Paid and solved.
er, wait, isn’t 600,000 euros merely the cost of two semesters in Mutant Superpowers at $cientology University?
Scientology always had one of the better afterlifes.
In xianity, you go to heaven, a vague shadowy place with no gender or sex where no one is sure what you do forever.
Mormon males can be gods with their own planet and fleets of goddess wives. They spend all eternity fucking to make spirit babies. The women goddesses are still stuck though. They spend all eternity pregnant and giving birth, i.e. having those babies, billions of them.
In Scientology, you become a god or goddess yourself for a nominal 6 figure sum. A master of MEST, matter, energy, space, and time. Apparently being a master of MEST doesn’t include winning all your court cases.
The afterlife upgrades are running out of room here. The next religion is going to have trouble raising the bar past Deityhood. I suppose they will promise greater god powers. A master of MEST and able to win all court cases and turn your critics into frogs.
There is a lot of room for the competition here.
Better superpowers for cheaper. Plus internet classes.
In Scientology v.2.0, you won’t just get rid of your Thetan ghosts. You will make them your servants and they will do the laundry, mow the lawn, and so on. It’s got to be more interesting for the Thetans than just being invisible soul sucking spirits.
Indeed it doesn’t seem much at all… but the good thing is the jurisprudence it makes in French law.
We already have a “sect watchdog” (Miviludes) which, as you have guessed doesn’t include the religions, just the sects. (???!!!)
PZ, you’ve got it wrong. Xenu was the bad guy (and he was very, very bad) in Hubbard’s story. Xenu is not on the Scientologists’ side.
The Church of S had a very bad month of January. The person who used to be in charge of running their expensive courses in Clearwater, Florida, and who was still in good standing within the Church, sent an email to 12 000 members saying that she thinks that the current leadership is ripping off the faithful. A impressive amount matter hit the fan, stories were published in media outlets all over the world etc. Needless to say that the woman is no longer in good standing with the Church. I suspect that the practicing Operating Thetans don’t feel inclined at the moment to use their superpowers to get the Church more money.
mikeh do you have a link to that story?
re my comment #12 above, here is the short Miviludes’ mission statement:
MIVILUDES = Interministerial Mission for the Vigilance and Combat against Sectarian Acts
(the translation is mine, sorry).
And only half of the self-described Catholics say they believe in God, the other half say they’re Catholics by tradition. Very good news indeed.
tomfrog,
I’ve made the same joke about similar govt agencies in other European countries, like the Sektenberatungstellen of several German state govts. But I do think there are religions which are more dangerous than others, because they try to squeeze people for their money etc. This can also extend to certain Christian sects, and maybe even certain groupings within the Catholic church (Pius brotherhood, maybe, though they might “only” be very extreme in their religious teachings without coercing their members).
It’s just depends on how you define “sect/cult”. I’d say it’s not so much a question of theology, but of harm to their members’ minds and wallets. All religions bring harm to those, but some more than others.
(or I think the joke is even better: the Lutheran State Church of Berlin has such a “Sektenberatungsstelle” (“sect counseling centre”), the question was if they’d include themselves among the sects whose members needed counseling)
In the City of Heroes universe backstory (superhero/metahuman MMO) apparently you can become the deity of your own intelligent species and foster them up to their own godhood… sort of like Spore.
…I foresee a slight problem with religious afterlives if they can’t improve upon computer games.
Rev. BigDumbChimp @ # 14 – The Independent had a nice summary of the (most recent) Miscavage money melee.
No. France itself used to be called la fille aînée de l’Église.
That was before it turned into one of the most godless countries behind the Czech Republic. The Torygraph article you link to is deeply impressive. Look how fast everything happened!
Rev. BigDumbChimp @ # 14 See Pierce R. Butler’s link in comment #20 and Marty Rathbun’s blog. He has followed the story closely and has posted Debbie Cook’s original email. Rathbun is a practicing scientologist who’s left the church after having worked closely with David Miscavige, running his dirty tricks operations for him for many years. The community of ex-scientologists have already got going a defense fund for Debbie Cook, who is now the target of said dirty tricks department. See e.g.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/reformation-division-within-corporate-scientology/ (Includes Debbie Cook’s email. The scientologese may be difficult to read. Google for a dictionary of scientology acronyms.)
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/01/03/debbie-cook-beginning-of-the-end-of-david-miscaviges-tyranny/ (Follow-up a couple of days later.)
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/debbie-cook-defense-fund/
Could homeopathy be next please?
Pelanum #5
In the article is this one sentence which needs a slight revision.
Should read
One devout Catholic said the biggest problem was that younger generations were no longer
interesteddeluded.Pteryxx @#19: Trouble is, most who could be doing that are too busy making ripoffs of established heroes or underdressed catgirls.
les Français ont fait quelque chose de bien !
Vive’ le France!
maintenant si ils vont simplement cesser de s’embrasser le cul des autres religions.
Morticia, I love it when you speak French!